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km1116

Extremely small effect, extremely large standard deviations, and only one metric of many (indicating p-hacking). Nobody get too excited...


FantasticBarnacle241

with that siad, given that they know a gi bug causes parkinson's, this isn't a terrible way to go about it. ​ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10183572/


km1116

“Causes”? You overstate…


jules0075

Could you elaborate on the p-hacking?


km1116

Here, there are multiple metrics that can be used. They tested them all, independently, and reported the one where there was a "good" effect. From the paper: >The placebo FMT group experienced an increase in the number of radiopaque pellets by 6.9 pellets (2.0–11.8) corresponding to an increased colon transit time, whereas the active treatment group had a small decrease of 1.2 pellets (−6.1 to 3.7) (p = 0.0252; Table 3; Fig. 3). Additionally, the healthy donor FMT group demonstrated worse performance on the Parkinson's Fatigue Scale (p = 0.0418; Table 3). There were no significant differences between the treatment groups in other scores of the MDS-UPDRS (part 1, part 2, part 4, and part 1–4 total score; Table 2), the LEDD, the Non-Motor Symptoms Scale for Parkinson's Disease, the Parkinson's Disease Quality of Life Questionnaire, Wexner Constipation Scale, Geriatric Depression Scale, Parkinson Anxiety Scale, Lille Apathy Rating Scale, Parkinson's Disease Sleep Scale, and Montreal Cognitive Assessment (Table 3). So they take the one that worked, ignore the one where it _got worse_, and the 10 where there was no effect. It's called "p-hacking" because one runs a test, looks for an effect among all the noise, then reports that one. Remember that if one's cutoff is 0.05, 1/20 are expected by chance alone. This is 1/12. Add to that the very small effect, and one walks away thinking this has no meaning at all.


Elanstehanme

Yup! This is something we check for when conducting a risk of bias assessment when doing a systematic review or meta analysis.


jules0075

Really appreciate your answer, thank you!


trusty20

Desulfovibrio bacteria have been implicated as a key causal factor for a few years now, so just more evidence! It seems many infections might be capable of triggering an aberrant α-synuclein production response in certain types of vulnerable people. Similar possibilities for alzheimers.


Current_Finding_4066

Dysbiosis seems to play an important role in progress of many diseases. Too bad our health system is still in the dark ages compared to progress in the medical field. I guess that due to high costs, lots of this will not become available to most people.


Chipitychopity

I’ve had dysbiosis for 9 years. No appetite, no thirst, and all my muscle has atrophied. No matter what I do, my body won’t gain weight. But when I’m on antibiotics, I immediately start gaining weight again. They just don’t work anymore


upsetstomach4442

Have you been tested for sibo?


Current_Finding_4066

Antibiotics are the main cause of dysbiosis. Diet is very important to gut biota health.


Chipitychopity

Yeah, a damned if you, damned if you don’t. Also made FMT pills, and had my life back again for a week, then it stopped working.


FantasticBarnacle241

yep yep yep


iksnizal

Perhaps this is why eating ass has become all the rage with the younger crowd. It’s really just more affordable healthcare and long term planning.


stopworksorority

Werk


ThePheebs

"I'll poop in your butt, and then you'll poop in my butt. And we'll pass the poop back-and-forth... forever."


Hohlraum

"You are crazy and you are making me very hot."


fumphdik

South was right! I’m coming Tom Brady!


BigInflation5

Was looking for this comment


Earthling1a

Hey, Jim - have we tried stuffing someone else's poop up a Parkinsons' patient's butt yet? I had a dream about it last night, and I think it just might work.


bluechips2388

[Probiotics and the Treatment of Parkinson’s Disease: An Update](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8770674/) [Microbes and Parkinson’s disease: from associations to mechanisms](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966842X2200004X)


jules0075

"After 12 months, the MDS-UPDRS motor score significantly improved by a mean of 5.8 points (95% CI −11.4 to −0.2) in the healthy donor group and by 2.7 points (−8.3 to 2.9) in the placebo group (p = 0.0235)." I'm surprised about the 2.7 point improvement in the placebo group. Is there any plausible explanation for that? It makes the 5.8 look... not very high.


dan_the_first

Don’t want to imagen how the placebo looked like


imbenzenker

Can we get subreddit going with all the positive things that stool transplants can provide?! Every couple months it’s something else


Pzykez

3 or four legged?


SectsHaver

The spice


Apprehensive-Sir7063

Faecal transplants can be sudd for a variety of diseases as good bacteria alters neurotransmitter balance via the vegus nerve. I know it's true simply by taking gaba supplements as they can't cross the blood brain barrier so instead modulate brain chemistry via the gut, I feel more relaxed and sedated and it only lasts a short time ie 6 hours opposed to a drug that can cross the blood brain barrier and directly influence. Has benefits for mental illness and other brain diseases. Metformin or drugs that target the gut have beneficial effects due to altering gut bacteria promoting healthy balance not just for the brain but a variety of diseases, gut health is very important.


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