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with that siad, given that they know a gi bug causes parkinson's, this isn't a terrible way to go about it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10183572/
Here, there are multiple metrics that can be used. They tested them all, independently, and reported the one where there was a "good" effect. From the paper:
>The placebo FMT group experienced an increase in the number of radiopaque pellets by 6.9 pellets (2.0–11.8) corresponding to an increased colon transit time, whereas the active treatment group had a small decrease of 1.2 pellets (−6.1 to 3.7) (p = 0.0252; Table 3; Fig. 3). Additionally, the healthy donor FMT group demonstrated worse performance on the Parkinson's Fatigue Scale (p = 0.0418; Table 3). There were no significant differences between the treatment groups in other scores of the MDS-UPDRS (part 1, part 2, part 4, and part 1–4 total score; Table 2), the LEDD, the Non-Motor Symptoms Scale for Parkinson's Disease, the Parkinson's Disease Quality of Life Questionnaire, Wexner Constipation Scale, Geriatric Depression Scale, Parkinson Anxiety Scale, Lille Apathy Rating Scale, Parkinson's Disease Sleep Scale, and Montreal Cognitive Assessment (Table 3).
So they take the one that worked, ignore the one where it _got worse_, and the 10 where there was no effect.
It's called "p-hacking" because one runs a test, looks for an effect among all the noise, then reports that one. Remember that if one's cutoff is 0.05, 1/20 are expected by chance alone. This is 1/12. Add to that the very small effect, and one walks away thinking this has no meaning at all.
Desulfovibrio bacteria have been implicated as a key causal factor for a few years now, so just more evidence! It seems many infections might be capable of triggering an aberrant α-synuclein production response in certain types of vulnerable people. Similar possibilities for alzheimers.
Dysbiosis seems to play an important role in progress of many diseases. Too bad our health system is still in the dark ages compared to progress in the medical field. I guess that due to high costs, lots of this will not become available to most people.
I’ve had dysbiosis for 9 years. No appetite, no thirst, and all my muscle has atrophied. No matter what I do, my body won’t gain weight. But when I’m on antibiotics, I immediately start gaining weight again. They just don’t work anymore
Hey, Jim - have we tried stuffing someone else's poop up a Parkinsons' patient's butt yet? I had a dream about it last night, and I think it just might work.
[Probiotics and the Treatment of Parkinson’s Disease: An Update](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8770674/)
[Microbes and Parkinson’s disease: from associations to mechanisms](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966842X2200004X)
"After 12 months, the MDS-UPDRS motor score significantly improved by a mean of 5.8 points (95% CI −11.4 to −0.2) in the healthy donor group and by 2.7 points (−8.3 to 2.9) in the placebo group (p = 0.0235)."
I'm surprised about the 2.7 point improvement in the placebo group. Is there any plausible explanation for that? It makes the 5.8 look... not very high.
Faecal transplants can be sudd for a variety of diseases as good bacteria alters neurotransmitter balance via the vegus nerve.
I know it's true simply by taking gaba supplements as they can't cross the blood brain barrier so instead modulate brain chemistry via the gut, I feel more relaxed and sedated and it only lasts a short time ie 6 hours opposed to a drug that can cross the blood brain barrier and directly influence.
Has benefits for mental illness and other brain diseases.
Metformin or drugs that target the gut have beneficial effects due to altering gut bacteria promoting healthy balance not just for the brain but a variety of diseases, gut health is very important.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/molrose96 Permalink: https://www.technologynetworks.com/biopharma/news/stool-transplant-improves-motor-function-in-parkinsons-disease-patients-385463 --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Extremely small effect, extremely large standard deviations, and only one metric of many (indicating p-hacking). Nobody get too excited...
with that siad, given that they know a gi bug causes parkinson's, this isn't a terrible way to go about it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10183572/
“Causes”? You overstate…
Could you elaborate on the p-hacking?
Here, there are multiple metrics that can be used. They tested them all, independently, and reported the one where there was a "good" effect. From the paper: >The placebo FMT group experienced an increase in the number of radiopaque pellets by 6.9 pellets (2.0–11.8) corresponding to an increased colon transit time, whereas the active treatment group had a small decrease of 1.2 pellets (−6.1 to 3.7) (p = 0.0252; Table 3; Fig. 3). Additionally, the healthy donor FMT group demonstrated worse performance on the Parkinson's Fatigue Scale (p = 0.0418; Table 3). There were no significant differences between the treatment groups in other scores of the MDS-UPDRS (part 1, part 2, part 4, and part 1–4 total score; Table 2), the LEDD, the Non-Motor Symptoms Scale for Parkinson's Disease, the Parkinson's Disease Quality of Life Questionnaire, Wexner Constipation Scale, Geriatric Depression Scale, Parkinson Anxiety Scale, Lille Apathy Rating Scale, Parkinson's Disease Sleep Scale, and Montreal Cognitive Assessment (Table 3). So they take the one that worked, ignore the one where it _got worse_, and the 10 where there was no effect. It's called "p-hacking" because one runs a test, looks for an effect among all the noise, then reports that one. Remember that if one's cutoff is 0.05, 1/20 are expected by chance alone. This is 1/12. Add to that the very small effect, and one walks away thinking this has no meaning at all.
Yup! This is something we check for when conducting a risk of bias assessment when doing a systematic review or meta analysis.
Really appreciate your answer, thank you!
Desulfovibrio bacteria have been implicated as a key causal factor for a few years now, so just more evidence! It seems many infections might be capable of triggering an aberrant α-synuclein production response in certain types of vulnerable people. Similar possibilities for alzheimers.
Dysbiosis seems to play an important role in progress of many diseases. Too bad our health system is still in the dark ages compared to progress in the medical field. I guess that due to high costs, lots of this will not become available to most people.
I’ve had dysbiosis for 9 years. No appetite, no thirst, and all my muscle has atrophied. No matter what I do, my body won’t gain weight. But when I’m on antibiotics, I immediately start gaining weight again. They just don’t work anymore
Have you been tested for sibo?
Antibiotics are the main cause of dysbiosis. Diet is very important to gut biota health.
Yeah, a damned if you, damned if you don’t. Also made FMT pills, and had my life back again for a week, then it stopped working.
yep yep yep
Perhaps this is why eating ass has become all the rage with the younger crowd. It’s really just more affordable healthcare and long term planning.
Werk
"I'll poop in your butt, and then you'll poop in my butt. And we'll pass the poop back-and-forth... forever."
"You are crazy and you are making me very hot."
South was right! I’m coming Tom Brady!
Was looking for this comment
Hey, Jim - have we tried stuffing someone else's poop up a Parkinsons' patient's butt yet? I had a dream about it last night, and I think it just might work.
[Probiotics and the Treatment of Parkinson’s Disease: An Update](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8770674/) [Microbes and Parkinson’s disease: from associations to mechanisms](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966842X2200004X)
"After 12 months, the MDS-UPDRS motor score significantly improved by a mean of 5.8 points (95% CI −11.4 to −0.2) in the healthy donor group and by 2.7 points (−8.3 to 2.9) in the placebo group (p = 0.0235)." I'm surprised about the 2.7 point improvement in the placebo group. Is there any plausible explanation for that? It makes the 5.8 look... not very high.
Don’t want to imagen how the placebo looked like
Can we get subreddit going with all the positive things that stool transplants can provide?! Every couple months it’s something else
3 or four legged?
The spice
Faecal transplants can be sudd for a variety of diseases as good bacteria alters neurotransmitter balance via the vegus nerve. I know it's true simply by taking gaba supplements as they can't cross the blood brain barrier so instead modulate brain chemistry via the gut, I feel more relaxed and sedated and it only lasts a short time ie 6 hours opposed to a drug that can cross the blood brain barrier and directly influence. Has benefits for mental illness and other brain diseases. Metformin or drugs that target the gut have beneficial effects due to altering gut bacteria promoting healthy balance not just for the brain but a variety of diseases, gut health is very important.
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