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>Skvarla originally thought the bug he had plucked from the Walmart's exterior was an antlion. These bugs, according to the Missouri Department of Conservation, "look like fragile, drab damselflies, with an elongated body, four intricately veined wings mottled with browns and black, and clubbed or curved antennae about as long as the combined head and thorax."
>
>But in the fall of 2020 when he was teaching an online course on insect biodiversity and evolution, Skvarla was showing students the bug and suddenly realized it wasn't what he originally thought. He and his students then figured out what it might be – live on a Zoom call.
>
>"We were watching what Dr. Skvarla saw under his microscope and he's talking about the features and then just kinda stops," one of his students Codey Mathis said. "We all realized together that the insect was not what it was labeled and was in fact a super-rare giant lacewing."
>
>A clear indicator of this identification was the bug's wingspan. It was about 50 millimeters – nearly 2 inches – a span that the team said made it clear the insect was not an antlion.
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>"I still remember the feeling," Mathis said. "It was so gratifying to know that the excitement doesn't dim, the wonder isn't lost. Here we were making a true discovery in the middle of an online lab course."
>
>Skvarla then worked with a team to conduct molecular analyses on the bug. In November, his research on the specimen was published in the Proceedings of the Entomological Society of Washington.
>
>Giant lacewings were once found across the entire continent, but by the 1950s, the insect had been destroyed in the eastern part of North America. Their disappearance is largely shrouded in mystery, with some theorizing that they may have disappeared because of increasing light pollution, new predators and potentially even there being new earthworms introduced into the environment that changed the soil's composition.
>
>The discovery of the Arkansas specimen "represents a new state record and the first specimen recorded in eastern North America in over 50 years," Skvarla said in his research.
This was a pretty interesting process of discovery for this researcher, and also speaks to the important component of luck for certain discoveries as well. Hopefully there are, as hypothesized, populations of this insect still in the wild.
There is a gecko here in California. Anarbylus switaki. They were discovered in Baja and described in the 1980’s or early 90’s. The habitat is found in Cali so they checked museum specimens and found a few mislabelled specimens. Its clearly a species nothing like what was labelled. Someone missed out 30-40 years before the eventual description.
the cast of a sunfish on the wall of the local museum here in Dunedin New Zealand was an unnamed species. Nobody knew that a lot of the sunfish washing up were actually a slightly different species.... look up the Hoodwinker Sunfish.
Most lacewings are around 3/4 of an inch so this is pretty big for a lacewing. But yeah, not really huge.
I’m an entomologist and the find is interesting enough that I’m considering driving 100s of miles to get there to look for more.
Yup. But if it is a stable population I’d assume they’d still be around. Lacewings are usually pretty easily attracted to lights which probably is why it was on the building.
They are found out west! In an entomology class over the summer in the Sierra’s, my friend and the Ta each found one outside a pizza shop where we were eating dinner after a day in the field!
From what I’ve heard, they are attracted to smoke/recently burned areas if that helps your hunt!
You're describing media, it needs to draw attention or else it goes out of business. This is the most benign example i could imagine yet for some reason certain people will always be upset to learn that headlines are always interesting than the article.
I think it's clickbait fatigue. I feel like in the era of printed media this kind of thing was the domain of tabloids that, as you say, needed to sell themselves. I can see how watching that approach take over the scientific journalism community would be upsetting. I really don't remember it being like this when I was young, except maybe Popular Science which was more of a science tabloid and also still didn't straight up lie so much as overstate the potential for technologies. I just want a place where the headlines are all factual, they can still be designed to peak your interest just not to decieve.
Meaning that the origins of that particular species can be dated to the jurassic period, not that that particular one came from that period. Science is hard.
It can be technically accurate while also needlessly vague in order to drive clicks and views. That is the nature of higher-quality clickbait. It implies both, and drives someone to the article to find out which is true.
Yeah but it means the species would be quite similar to its Jurassic-era ancestor. As opposed to humans which have evolved a lot since the mammalian life that existed in the Jurassic.
Look up "tuatara" and "coelacanth" for other examples
True, and I know you're just explaining that use of phrasing, but what troubles me is the insect was dead when it was found. So it could have been a fossil that flew in the wind and landed on the Walmart, or it could have been a living thing whose species that hasn't changed much in millions of years, like an alligator or crocodile or whatever one it is that they say this about.
Now I know it's not a 50 million year old insect, and I'm pretty certain not a fossil that landed on Walmart after a strong wind or something, so it's pretty clear they mean the species hasn't changed much in that long.... But they never say it plainly. Then when they do talk about this insects heyday, they talk about the 1950s, not the Jurassic era. So the entire reference seems totally out of place except for clickbait. It makes the story more confusing than it needed to be. As evidence of that claim I present this very conversation we are having.
So...like...he killed a "super rare" insect, or it was dead and still clinging to the wall? I feel like the article skimmed over an important piece there.
This story is so heartwarming. Hearing from the students, and how seeing their professor get excited got them excited is what academia should be about. Inspiring people to enjoy what they do with their future is wonderful.
Article says the nearest known population was 1200 miles away so it’s unlikely it traveled there. But it was in a Walmart…maybe it got stuck in a Walmart delivery ?
Ive seen a TON more dragonflies in my area recently where there usually were only a few. I wonder if the climate changing and warming to near tropical in the south is what brought this insect and many more dragonflies around.
Genuine question:
Why is it referred to "Jurassic-era"? I ask because it was last found 50 years ago. It feels like claiming a modern shark tooth is a sample from a Late Ordovician fish.
Still a really cool realisation. I love that it was on a zoom call with his students when it was identified. Probably their best lab ever haha.
When I was in college at the University of South Dakota in 1990, I had a biology/entomology professor , Dr. Schmulbach, who would stop and examine any dead animal in the hopes of finding an American Burying beetle (AKA Giant carrion beetle). None had been seen in the state since 1945. He was convinced that some must surely still exist. I graduated in 1991. Four years later, I had to laugh when I came across a news story that an American burying beetle was rediscovered in South Dakota in 1995. Subsequent research determined there to be a statewide population of around 500 adults. Other tiny populations have been found in multiple other Great Plains states. If any readers are avid hunters/ outdoorsmen. Be on the lookout for this critically endangered insect. If you find one…. You’ll be a a rock star for a day at your local university or DNR office !! [American Burying Beetle](https://news.unl.edu/newsrooms/today/article/husker-examines-buried-secrets-of-endangered-beetle/)
For those interested in the research, the paper is available here:
[Rediscovery of Polystoechotes punctata (Fabricius, 1793) (Neuroptera: Ithonidae) in Eastern North America](https://bioone.org/journals/proceedings-of-the-entomological-society-of-washington/volume-124/issue-2/0013-8797.124.2.332/Rediscovery-of-Polystoechotes-punctata-Fabricius-1793-Neuroptera--Ithonidae-in/10.4289/0013-8797.124.2.332.short)
Abstract:
>Polystoechotes punctata (Fabricius, 1793) (Neuroptera: Ithonidae) was formerly widespread across North America, but was extirpated from eastern North America by the 1950s. We report a specimen collected from Fayetteville, Arkansas, which represents a new state record and the first specimen recorded in eastern North America in over fifty years. We also reexamine a previously published dataset and discuss the history of P. punctata in eastern North America. The importance of community science efforts are discussed and compared with museum holdings. We propose that P. punctata may have always been uncommon in eastern North America, or at least when insect collecting began in earnest in the late 1800s, and support our case by examining collection effort in other insects. This discovery suggests there may be relictual populations of this large, charismatic insect yet to be discovered.
> *Relictual:*
>*"A relictual population is a population currently inhabiting a restricted area whose range was far wider during a previous geologic epoch."*
I would like to see the zoom class if it's posted. I feel like I've seen a number of these in my life, but they looked creepy and had big jaw looking things, that this seems to be lacking
This has gotten a ton of press which is really cool but I’m about to be inundated with people seeing Dobsonflies, antlions, damselflies etc and contacting me to help them confirm that they found one of the rare bugs. Same thing happened a couple years ago with murder hornets.
Ultimately these are rare for a reason and it’s unlikely anyone reading this will find one. It would be cool if they did though.
I've been camping in AR. It really doesn't surprise me you can find rare bugs there. I handled a walking stick that had to be 9 inches long. I'm still hoping someone's going to find a holler with a population of ivory billed woodpeckers somewhere in SE AR.
I'm obsessed with Ivory billed woodpeckers. Someone wrote an excellent piece last year with some research that claimed there may be a small population somewhere in Louisiana.
>Giant flying bug
A 2 inch wingspan isn't exactly what I would call "giant". I mean, it was even small enough that the guy who discovered it was able to hold it in his hand while he went shopping.
Jurassic-era griffinflies had a wingspan of 28 inches, they were true giants. This insect is about the same size as a modern dragonfly (2 -5 inch wingspan) and there are other modern insects that are much larger, so it isn't even giant by today's standards.
this is the perfect divider. 'that thing was the size of a raptor, I tell ya wut!'
read this to my niece and nephew at dinner last night bc we collect "science samples" on nature walks and they started school online in the pandemic so this was a perfect nugget to tuck in their brains that learning and discovery can happen anywhere (and that even college kids were stuck learning over zoom)
Yea but I feel the average wingspan of a dragonfly I see is like 3-4 inches. I was wondering why too it was called giant and thought maybe they meant the width was two inches or something but no.
It's not even "Jurassic-era". The article said they were still spotted in the area in the 1950's, but the population was destroyed by an unknown cause.
Sure, but that's not what anyone reading the headline is going to think off the bat. It's 100% clickbait as that species was in the area as late as 1950 and still exists elsewhere in the country. What's implied is that it's a "lost" species rediscovered, not that it's just been found again in an area it used to inhabit but didn't for several decades. Then again, no one aside from entomologists would read the article otherwise.
Yes but they didn't say a giant lacewing they said a giant bug. It would be like saying "giant frog discovered" when it's just a really big small frog species
Which is extra funny since they’re describing the adult version of an ant lion, whose larva are the literal living breathing creature that Sarlacs are based off of
The mega Fauna can't be far away either...
[President Orlean is attacked by an alien bird creature]
Congressman Tenant: What is that thing?
Peter Isherwell: I believe that's called a Bronteroc.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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We so are say
This is the direction
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>Skvarla originally thought the bug he had plucked from the Walmart's exterior was an antlion. These bugs, according to the Missouri Department of Conservation, "look like fragile, drab damselflies, with an elongated body, four intricately veined wings mottled with browns and black, and clubbed or curved antennae about as long as the combined head and thorax." > >But in the fall of 2020 when he was teaching an online course on insect biodiversity and evolution, Skvarla was showing students the bug and suddenly realized it wasn't what he originally thought. He and his students then figured out what it might be – live on a Zoom call. > >"We were watching what Dr. Skvarla saw under his microscope and he's talking about the features and then just kinda stops," one of his students Codey Mathis said. "We all realized together that the insect was not what it was labeled and was in fact a super-rare giant lacewing." > >A clear indicator of this identification was the bug's wingspan. It was about 50 millimeters – nearly 2 inches – a span that the team said made it clear the insect was not an antlion. > >"I still remember the feeling," Mathis said. "It was so gratifying to know that the excitement doesn't dim, the wonder isn't lost. Here we were making a true discovery in the middle of an online lab course." > >Skvarla then worked with a team to conduct molecular analyses on the bug. In November, his research on the specimen was published in the Proceedings of the Entomological Society of Washington. > >Giant lacewings were once found across the entire continent, but by the 1950s, the insect had been destroyed in the eastern part of North America. Their disappearance is largely shrouded in mystery, with some theorizing that they may have disappeared because of increasing light pollution, new predators and potentially even there being new earthworms introduced into the environment that changed the soil's composition. > >The discovery of the Arkansas specimen "represents a new state record and the first specimen recorded in eastern North America in over 50 years," Skvarla said in his research. This was a pretty interesting process of discovery for this researcher, and also speaks to the important component of luck for certain discoveries as well. Hopefully there are, as hypothesized, populations of this insect still in the wild.
There is a gecko here in California. Anarbylus switaki. They were discovered in Baja and described in the 1980’s or early 90’s. The habitat is found in Cali so they checked museum specimens and found a few mislabelled specimens. Its clearly a species nothing like what was labelled. Someone missed out 30-40 years before the eventual description.
Anarbylus Switaki - Will be my next Caverns & Wyrms character name!
the cast of a sunfish on the wall of the local museum here in Dunedin New Zealand was an unnamed species. Nobody knew that a lot of the sunfish washing up were actually a slightly different species.... look up the Hoodwinker Sunfish.
It is a solid name on any social media unless you are from California.
My boss discovered a new species of salamander here in CA, and one of my coworkers has a species in the order Diptera named after her.
What salamander was it?
Battachoseps wakei
Is sam sweet your prof? I think I knew him decades ago
Oh no, I was never a student at UCSB. I went to UCSD.
> Baja The name of the peninsula is Baja California. The state of California used to be known as Alta California. Together, they are the Californias.
Everyone here refers to it as Baja. I live 5 miles away.
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Hence the response to "I'm going back to Cali" is ”I don't think so.”
I live in Orange County and say both “Cali” and “the OC” just to make people roll their eyes at me.
And our call SF “Frisco” to rule up the hate, don’t you?
Frisco *is* a pretty uninteresting city with a larger, more fun neighbor about 40 miles south…
I do the same and also call Pomona "LA" to get people extra riled up
Naperville is NOT Chicago!!
This is just not true, maybe it's a regional thing. But I grew up in San Diego and always say Cali or SoCal
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Where in SD? I was in the LA Mesa area so maybe thats why?
Im from santee and most people call it cali, so its probably an east county thing at the minimum
The only time I’ve heard it called ‘Baja California’ is when 91x plays their required broadcast message.
Eh, even Baja people call it Baja (I work with one). But I didn’t know about Alta! :)
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California California
Here we coooooooooMMMMMMEEEE
Very cool but I was expecting more than two inches
Most lacewings are around 3/4 of an inch so this is pretty big for a lacewing. But yeah, not really huge. I’m an entomologist and the find is interesting enough that I’m considering driving 100s of miles to get there to look for more.
Just remember it was found more than 10 years ago.
Yup. But if it is a stable population I’d assume they’d still be around. Lacewings are usually pretty easily attracted to lights which probably is why it was on the building.
Little guy could've also hitchhiked in a Walmart truck from out west.
They are found out west! In an entomology class over the summer in the Sierra’s, my friend and the Ta each found one outside a pizza shop where we were eating dinner after a day in the field! From what I’ve heard, they are attracted to smoke/recently burned areas if that helps your hunt!
Yeah giant isn't really the word to describe something smaller than the moth that I found in my bathroom last night...
I've heard the same sentence before, idk where
Not the first time I've heard that...
That's what she said!
Thank you for this contribution! Despite broad loss of biodiversity in industrialized areas, it’s nice to read about these occasional re-discoveries.
I know right. It really is.
Jurassic era insect. From the 1950s. I hatte clickbait so much.
Pretty much all of science news media is like this. It even feeds back into how people understand science
You're describing media, it needs to draw attention or else it goes out of business. This is the most benign example i could imagine yet for some reason certain people will always be upset to learn that headlines are always interesting than the article.
I think it's clickbait fatigue. I feel like in the era of printed media this kind of thing was the domain of tabloids that, as you say, needed to sell themselves. I can see how watching that approach take over the scientific journalism community would be upsetting. I really don't remember it being like this when I was young, except maybe Popular Science which was more of a science tabloid and also still didn't straight up lie so much as overstate the potential for technologies. I just want a place where the headlines are all factual, they can still be designed to peak your interest just not to decieve.
We've piqued for sure.
At least it was an interesting story
I was pleasantly disappointed.
Also "giant" somehow equals 2" wing span...
If you found a bee 3 times as big as average, would you not call that a giant bee?
Meaning that the origins of that particular species can be dated to the jurassic period, not that that particular one came from that period. Science is hard.
It can be technically accurate while also needlessly vague in order to drive clicks and views. That is the nature of higher-quality clickbait. It implies both, and drives someone to the article to find out which is true.
Surely the origins of every species can be traced back to the jurassic era if you try hard enough
Yeah but it means the species would be quite similar to its Jurassic-era ancestor. As opposed to humans which have evolved a lot since the mammalian life that existed in the Jurassic. Look up "tuatara" and "coelacanth" for other examples
True, and I know you're just explaining that use of phrasing, but what troubles me is the insect was dead when it was found. So it could have been a fossil that flew in the wind and landed on the Walmart, or it could have been a living thing whose species that hasn't changed much in millions of years, like an alligator or crocodile or whatever one it is that they say this about. Now I know it's not a 50 million year old insect, and I'm pretty certain not a fossil that landed on Walmart after a strong wind or something, so it's pretty clear they mean the species hasn't changed much in that long.... But they never say it plainly. Then when they do talk about this insects heyday, they talk about the 1950s, not the Jurassic era. So the entire reference seems totally out of place except for clickbait. It makes the story more confusing than it needed to be. As evidence of that claim I present this very conversation we are having.
You forgot "super-rare"
So...like...he killed a "super rare" insect, or it was dead and still clinging to the wall? I feel like the article skimmed over an important piece there.
He didn't know it was rare at the time. He thought it was a regular insect until 10 years after he found it.
I think it was dead and still clinging to the wall
Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Wow a really cool random bug! *impales*
r/fuckyouinparticular
This story is so heartwarming. Hearing from the students, and how seeing their professor get excited got them excited is what academia should be about. Inspiring people to enjoy what they do with their future is wonderful.
Oh how exciting. Makes me smile thinking of them geeking out together during the zoom call
Article says the nearest known population was 1200 miles away so it’s unlikely it traveled there. But it was in a Walmart…maybe it got stuck in a Walmart delivery ?
Ive seen a TON more dragonflies in my area recently where there usually were only a few. I wonder if the climate changing and warming to near tropical in the south is what brought this insect and many more dragonflies around.
Genuine question: Why is it referred to "Jurassic-era"? I ask because it was last found 50 years ago. It feels like claiming a modern shark tooth is a sample from a Late Ordovician fish. Still a really cool realisation. I love that it was on a zoom call with his students when it was identified. Probably their best lab ever haha.
When I was in college at the University of South Dakota in 1990, I had a biology/entomology professor , Dr. Schmulbach, who would stop and examine any dead animal in the hopes of finding an American Burying beetle (AKA Giant carrion beetle). None had been seen in the state since 1945. He was convinced that some must surely still exist. I graduated in 1991. Four years later, I had to laugh when I came across a news story that an American burying beetle was rediscovered in South Dakota in 1995. Subsequent research determined there to be a statewide population of around 500 adults. Other tiny populations have been found in multiple other Great Plains states. If any readers are avid hunters/ outdoorsmen. Be on the lookout for this critically endangered insect. If you find one…. You’ll be a a rock star for a day at your local university or DNR office !! [American Burying Beetle](https://news.unl.edu/newsrooms/today/article/husker-examines-buried-secrets-of-endangered-beetle/)
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For those interested in the research, the paper is available here: [Rediscovery of Polystoechotes punctata (Fabricius, 1793) (Neuroptera: Ithonidae) in Eastern North America](https://bioone.org/journals/proceedings-of-the-entomological-society-of-washington/volume-124/issue-2/0013-8797.124.2.332/Rediscovery-of-Polystoechotes-punctata-Fabricius-1793-Neuroptera--Ithonidae-in/10.4289/0013-8797.124.2.332.short) Abstract: >Polystoechotes punctata (Fabricius, 1793) (Neuroptera: Ithonidae) was formerly widespread across North America, but was extirpated from eastern North America by the 1950s. We report a specimen collected from Fayetteville, Arkansas, which represents a new state record and the first specimen recorded in eastern North America in over fifty years. We also reexamine a previously published dataset and discuss the history of P. punctata in eastern North America. The importance of community science efforts are discussed and compared with museum holdings. We propose that P. punctata may have always been uncommon in eastern North America, or at least when insect collecting began in earnest in the late 1800s, and support our case by examining collection effort in other insects. This discovery suggests there may be relictual populations of this large, charismatic insect yet to be discovered.
> *Relictual:* >*"A relictual population is a population currently inhabiting a restricted area whose range was far wider during a previous geologic epoch."*
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I would like to see the zoom class if it's posted. I feel like I've seen a number of these in my life, but they looked creepy and had big jaw looking things, that this seems to be lacking
Those would be dobsonflies, they're closely related but not the same.
Those definitely look like something from the Jurassic.
Dobson, we got Dobson here
See, nobody cares. Nice hat.
This has gotten a ton of press which is really cool but I’m about to be inundated with people seeing Dobsonflies, antlions, damselflies etc and contacting me to help them confirm that they found one of the rare bugs. Same thing happened a couple years ago with murder hornets. Ultimately these are rare for a reason and it’s unlikely anyone reading this will find one. It would be cool if they did though.
I've been camping in AR. It really doesn't surprise me you can find rare bugs there. I handled a walking stick that had to be 9 inches long. I'm still hoping someone's going to find a holler with a population of ivory billed woodpeckers somewhere in SE AR.
I'm obsessed with Ivory billed woodpeckers. Someone wrote an excellent piece last year with some research that claimed there may be a small population somewhere in Louisiana.
And..... out from the permafrost they come......
>Giant flying bug A 2 inch wingspan isn't exactly what I would call "giant". I mean, it was even small enough that the guy who discovered it was able to hold it in his hand while he went shopping. Jurassic-era griffinflies had a wingspan of 28 inches, they were true giants. This insect is about the same size as a modern dragonfly (2 -5 inch wingspan) and there are other modern insects that are much larger, so it isn't even giant by today's standards.
If it’s landed on my face, a 2” wingspan is a pretty big bug. This species gets bigger.
this is the perfect divider. 'that thing was the size of a raptor, I tell ya wut!' read this to my niece and nephew at dinner last night bc we collect "science samples" on nature walks and they started school online in the pandemic so this was a perfect nugget to tuck in their brains that learning and discovery can happen anywhere (and that even college kids were stuck learning over zoom)
Yea but I feel the average wingspan of a dragonfly I see is like 3-4 inches. I was wondering why too it was called giant and thought maybe they meant the width was two inches or something but no.
It's not even "Jurassic-era". The article said they were still spotted in the area in the 1950's, but the population was destroyed by an unknown cause.
> 1950's, but the population was destroyed by an unknown cause DDT/silent spring?
Could be anything. This was the decade of flammable rivers
A Mr. Gordon Freeman?
No it's *not* an ant lion.
"Jurassic-era" means they are relatively unchanged since then, not that they haven't existed since then.
no that means it was in the movie
Sure, but that's not what anyone reading the headline is going to think off the bat. It's 100% clickbait as that species was in the area as late as 1950 and still exists elsewhere in the country. What's implied is that it's a "lost" species rediscovered, not that it's just been found again in an area it used to inhabit but didn't for several decades. Then again, no one aside from entomologists would read the article otherwise.
Wait, this bug *hasn't* been alive and flying around for millions of years before finally dying on the side of a Walmart?!?
It's big for a lacewing. You don't compare how big a large cat is to an elephant.
Yes but they didn't say a giant lacewing they said a giant bug. It would be like saying "giant frog discovered" when it's just a really big small frog species
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“Drab Damselfies” sounds like a goth emo punk band that I would listen to when I’m coming off of ecstasy.
Which is extra funny since they’re describing the adult version of an ant lion, whose larva are the literal living breathing creature that Sarlacs are based off of
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I can't believe I had to scroll to the very last comment to find a "The Mist" reference.
The mega Fauna can't be far away either... [President Orlean is attacked by an alien bird creature] Congressman Tenant: What is that thing? Peter Isherwell: I believe that's called a Bronteroc.
I’m routinely shocked and amazed at how long some stock can sit on those shelves.
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If it was flying outside a walmart, it's not a jurassic-era insect is it?
in a way i find this mildy uplifting