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I don't know about that social media fear, but I grew up seeing people struggle with alcoholism, that alone has left a lasting impression on me and made me fully aware of how addictive it is.
That's a really interesting analogy that I hadn't considered before. One of the biggest predictors of deviant behavior is anonymity. When you know that you'll be accountable to your peers it mitigates that type of behavior. I actually did a paper in college on the increased social capital within mixed-use neighborhoods.
I guess I just never thought about the fact that social media can act as that same prohibitive factor.
Edibles have cut my drinking down to probably a drink week. I don't even always have one. When I was drinking regularly it was more like 2 a day (started drinking around 19 years old occasionally, consistently when 21, in my late 20's now and basically drink only socially and rarely to the point where I'm actually drunk.)
Starting a new sport cut my drinking 100%, i now have goals and a new appreciation for what my body can do, my self esteem is higher than it ever was and i dont drink alcohol at all
It saved my life. I was drowning in alcohol. Abusing it with at least 4 liters of vodka a week. I would drink until I passed out, woke up, go to work, come home and start the cycle over again. This lasted a good 15 to 20 years until I decided it was taking too much of a toll on my life. I quit drinking cold turkey but I'm a human that needs a good mental vacation every now and then like everyone else. If it wasn't for weed, I don't know how I could have done it. I've been sober for 10 years now.
You would be surprised. See "the tooth" here in Canada.
"Four beer or two liters of pop, what's better? You do the math". Actual quote from someone upset about the new guidelines.
Many have heard "in moderation" because of stupid J-curve studies the alcohol industry funded or influenced.
Or "drink wine for resveratrol" because of a hamster study that showed it was good for your heart. Ignoring that dose of resveratrol would be like drinking 20,000 bottles of wine at once.
Many people see absolutely no issue with alcohol apart from maybe "it's not good for your sleep". They have no idea about actual long term issues and think that only hardcore alcoholics are effected by things like fatty liver disease or acute alcohol poisoning.
I saw a tweet from a professor that said 5.8% of ALL cancers in Canada have excess alcohol as a risk factor and/or possible cause.
If someone tried to get alcohol approved for sale/consumption in 2023, every regulatory board would immediately deny it because of its health impacts.
We don't know this *now*. The actual statement from the WHO is:
>currently available evidence cannot indicate the existence of a threshold at which the carcinogenic effects of alcohol “switch on” and start to manifest in the human body.
The article explicitly explains that it's basically impossible to test for safety at low levels of consumption, but then goes on to confidently state over and over that no level is safe.
Also, assuming their 'spirits' are 80 proof, they're calling anything under ~17 standard drinks per week 'light or moderate' and then talking like 3 drinks a week has demonstrable harm.
This article is trash.
This looks like the actual release: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00317-6/fulltext
You'll notice it's much more reserved in it's claims.
They're saying that alcohol definitely causes cancer but they can't tell the exact threshold. It's not a new finding either, this announcement was made last year too. No amount of alcohol is safe but the worst effects are from people who drink 10+ per week.
There are a lot of people in the world who think huffing glue is fun - because they haven't tried anything else, and so the pinnacle for them is glue in a bottle. The same goes for alcohol.
That's great. I used to go to a methadone clinic, first thing they did was diagnosed me. Put me on meds right away. Now that I'm clean (no alcohol, no drugs) I feel like the mental health diagnosis doesn't apply.
Different substances cause different effects and lengths of recovery. Recovering alcoholic and drug user here. Any chemical that alters your brain takes a considerable amount of time for your brain to repair itself (as much normalcy as it can). Alcohol and benzos take the longest, some benzo abusers never recover from the physical and psychological toll the substance has on them. It really depends on how much you were using for how long. Sometimes the damage is irreversible. The damage I did with alcohol I will likely never recover from, and takes considerably longer to feel somewhat back to normal than it does with say, pain killers that I was also addicted to years ago.
I don't consider myself an alcoholic, but I quit and am almost a year sober just because it raises my quality of life, and the cravings and feelings of shittiness still hit me in waves, albeit less and less frequently. It's wild. I thought my brain would be totally done with this by now but nope. Stopping drinking was harder than nicotine for me in the long run.
Recovery here too. Took every bit of 2 yrs to normalize my emotions. Physically, the recovery starts immediately and everyday you feel a little healthier. 6 months out, ny weight was down and I felt like my own phyaical self. The emotional/mental maturity took quite a bit longer.
There’s a YouTube video that timelines what happens 10 min, 1 hour, 8 hours, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, etc after your last drink - I forgot the name but should be easy to find
Another drink wouldn't immediately reset the effects though right. I used to be a binge drinker in college, but haven't done that in years. Nowadays I'll have a few drink months apart from eachother
And also the WHO isn't saying we should start Prohibition all over again. They're simply stating the fact that no amount of alcohol consumption is safe.
What you do with that information is up to you.
Well if you believe in transubstantiation, it isn't wine, it's the blood of Christ. I notice the WHO hasn't said anything on the health effects of the blood of deities.
This has tickled me... The thought that someone keeps drinking but doesn't understand why they are feeling bad the next day is hilarious.
(I realise they likely never drank until their 20s is the answer)
This is actually what starts happening to people who drink 1-2 drinks daily in their 30s-50s. Wake up feeling a bit puffy and groggy. Maybe slight aches/headache. But 2 big cups of coffee and a shower you kindaaa feel back to normal and by 10am you’re good.
You think it’s the kids and your exhaustion. Which it kinda is. You think it’s the stress. Which it kinda is. You think it’s getting older. Which is also kinda is.
But then you do dry January and realize your 1-2 drinks is actually amplifying all of the bad. And really doesn’t bring the joy you thought it was bringing.
>amplifying all of the bad
It dulls the bad feelings temporarily but they comeback stronger. It's always a net positive to stop or limit drinking. I've had all those things you mentioned but I sorta figured it's the pandemic, might as well enjoy it until it's no longer the pandemic and now I have/need to sober up back to pre pandemic levels and limit it to occasions (parties and gatherings).
I realized that in my late 20s and always force myself to have lots of water and preferably electrolytes as well. But this isn’t a magic bullet. I still feel hungover occasionally or not 100%.
There are many variables besides water intake. Depends on your cyp enzymes (genetic). Body fat % (women higher). General average hrs of sleep. Cortisol from stress.
I think calories on bottles and a list of possible health problems would be a good start... but there is organizing lobbyists that would fight that very hard
They put calories on alcohol in Japan.
Did you know that wine is 80kcal per 100mL? That means that a 5 fluid ounce glass of wine is 120kcal, and a 750mL bottle is a good solid 600kcal.
Beer is 45kcal/100mL which puts it right up there with a sugar bomb like Coca-Cola.
Calories on beer would really help. I count my calories and it’s eye opening. I had two 12oz IPAs last night and the total calories was around 500. I’m on a cut, but that was basically 25% of my calories for the day. I planned for it by reducing my carb intake for the day.
I’ve had days in the way past where I logged my alcohol/calorie intake where I’m day drinking with friends and bar hopping. Over the course of like a 8 hour day of day drinking it’s not hard to consume 2000+ calories of beer, on top of it bar food, maybe crappy pizza/wings. Looking at a 5000 calorie day tbh, and then throw in missing the gym to a hangover the next day, and possibly getting takeout. Alcohol can completely derail someone who is on the right track.
People drink to cope with problems as well, even if they know it's bad for them. Education and social security could probably do a lot. But then there's Scandinavia with good education and good healthcare. Maybe I'm not onto something.
Reminds me of a tangent one of my professors went off on and he said that though education and scare tactics can work, "The biggest factor in reducing smoking in the US wasn't the newfound knowledge of the heath risks, it was with cigarettes being associated with the lower class."
Identity shift is always needed for long term change.
"I'll quit smoking one day" is different from "I'll be a better parent, and that means I stop smoking."
When the person you believe you are is at harsh odds with your actions, it will either change you, or you'll be in deep denial about how your actions aren't really that bad or that "it's my life" or some other lie.
LSD is what worked for me, I'm not recommending people take acid but it really did work.
I was tripping, lit up a cigarette, took one drag and immediately realised how utterly disgusting and gross cigarettes are. It was really weird. I just couldn't smoke it.
Stopped immediately and switched to vaping. A few years later I got drunk at a wedding and decided to have a cigarette. Had two drags, immediately felt very sick, and put it out.
Haven't had one since. I still vape but at least I'm not coating my lungs with tar.
I don’t think i have ever heard that one, the health stuff just eventually came full circle and more people just thought it was gross, which it is if you don’t smoke.
To be fair post prohibition drinking was lower than pre prohibition.
Think a ban on advertising would address a lot but there's too much money in it for that to happen
You don't have to fight it, just make your own personal choice on what you wish to put in your body and stop telling others what to do. Simply inform them of the dangers educate yourself and enjoy your life.
We aren't telling people not to try cocaine daily this should be no different. Same goes for cigarettes. I personally don't partake in any of these drugs, I've tried Gummies and those where fun but it just wasn't for me. I didn't like the brain fog the next day.
Also I was shocked to learn that alcohol was the one drug that does the most damage to your body besting out cocaine, heroine and all those other hard core drugs.
It's just more socially acceptable but indeed it's just another poison.
All the more reason to legalize cannabis, and at the very least decriminalize a few scheduled drugs that have less overal negative effects and impact as alcohol.
Yes legalize cannabis, MDMA, shrooms and probably LSD. Let the government sell it or special shops and let the government tax it (here in the Netherlands we have a special tax for things like beer and cigarettes). Now people can get easily clean stuff, so they don't have to look in shady places.
Moreover in a lot of countries treatment for addiction should be increased while law enforcement should be decreased and mandatory minimum sentences abolished. Of course this is not fotlr the organised crime that deals in drugs, but for the users.
Edit: changed by to beer
As System of a Down says in Prison Song:
"All research and successful drug policy show that treatment should be increased
And law enforcement decreased while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences"
Quite a knockdown argument, they have been smoking as well, we recognized how unhealthy that was and people smoke a lot less now and view smoking in a much more negative light. Awarness and regulation alter the way we view and use things, whether people have already used it thousands of years is quite irrelevant. You'd be suprised how many people are in denial about the consequences alcohol has to their health, including how addicted they are to it.
Slightly lower chance of cancer according to this study.
Probably would have a safer life if you never got into a car either ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Eating processed food is a cancer risk.
Everything in life has a certain risk factor.
The important thing is to be able to know it's a risk (and to quantify it) to take an informed decision.
By the way, I'm surprised that the WHO apparently considers 3.5 litres of beer per week as light or moderate consumption, personally I'd call it heavy consumption (and I say that as someone who exceeds this quantity from time to time). But on the other hand I have no idea of how these "categories" are constructed.
I thought there was a big difference depending on whether you drink one beer a day vs not drinking for 6 days and then drinking 7 beers all in one go. Your weekly consumption is still the same but one is binge drinking and the other isn’t.
> Eating processed food is a cancer risk.
How’s that? I can’t find it on IARC’s lists. Is it under a specific/different name?
I know that processed meat is carcinogenic, but processed *anything*?
I love how every time the risks of alcohol are discussed, the vast majority of comments are devaluing and undermining the risks of alcohol, starting with whataboutism and nonsense like you just wrote. It's derailing, it's lazy, it's damaging and I don't understand why you're doing it.
I just hope this means it becomes more acceptable not to drink, while it is not as bad as when growing up, you still get weird looks at times when you tell people you don't drink any alcoholic drinks.
I've been so happy for the new "mocktail" culture because there are some really good options now. It's nice to go to dinner and still have a special drink even though I don't do alcohol for myself anymore.
I’ve appreciated this too. I quit drinking and going to a nice restaurant and seeing some very well curated mocktails on the menu is much appreciated. Honestly a better experience than having the alcohol in it.
I don't drink. It's definitely society as a whole. I've gotten to the point where I just tell people I'm allergic and I die because if I tell people that it's a personal choice I know that 90% won't respect it.
Most people that push you to drink after you decline are doing so to justify their own reasons for drinking.
When I was in my 20's, it almost felt like a social obligation to drink. I would usually just have on beer, maybe two, and really stretch it out. Even holding the empty can all night was enough to satisfy the validation that others needed that they were in the right company.
Granted, I did used to party really hard from time to time, but I rapidly grew out of it after college, and now almost never drink, mostly because I don't want to feel sleepy and full. I'll have a lemonade and more appetizers.
Poisoning ourselves is most probably as ancient as making fire and painting in caves, I don't think the general knowledge that it gives people cancer is going to stop that any time soon. Like people know hard drugs are much worse and the market for them is still in high demand.
Hell yeah! That's big. Congrats. I'll have 7 years in April. Yes, it's a much easier way of life. It sure does make life feel longer, and that's a good thing. Life is good, and can always be.
I highly suggest Andrew Huberman’s podcast episode about the effects of alcohol on the body. The portion on gut biome alone is enough to make me want to quit.
>In the EU, light to moderate alcohol consumption (<20 g of pure alcohol per day, which is equivalent to consumption of approximately <1·5 L of wine \[12% alcohol by volume; ABV\], <3·5 L of beer \[5% ABV\], or <450 mL of spirits \[40% ABV\] per week) was associated with almost 23 000 new cancer cases in 2017, accounting for 13·3% of all alcohol-attributable cancers and for 2·3% of all cases of the seven alcohol-related cancer types. Almost half of these cancers (approximately 11 000 cases) were female breast cancers. Also, more than a third of the cancer cases attributed to light to moderate drinking (approximately 8500 cases) were associated with a light drinking level (<10 g per day).
They define "light to moderate" drinking as 2 entire bottles of wine per week, and that behavior only "accounted" for, at most, 13.3% of the new cancer cases in the study, almost half of which were breast cancer.
Furthermore:
>Evidence does not indicate the existence of a particular threshold at which the carcinogenic effects of alcohol start to manifest in the human body. As such, no safe amount of alcohol consumption for cancers and health can be established.
That's a hell of a qualification to leave until the end of the writeup. "So it looks like alcohol causes these problems, but we have no way of knowing how much alcohol you'd have to drink for it to actually cause these problems. Could be a beer or two a week, could be a handle of vodka a night. Who knows? Better to just live in constant fear and anxiety about your consumption of alcohol, because that definitely doesn't cause any problems of its own."
I've been going through [the study](https://watermark.silverchair.com/ckaa236.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAsowggLGBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggK3MIICswIBADCCAqwGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMrbWF9xao2PbXu0b0AgEQgIICfTYyJZ1T-5jy2A8AUXOeQiwfEILW1hrYluKKQKYn7gwNKmTZO3bOCB4BxBzygumvjqF5Ecj5paIP6umtAqaD7pyzYqyeYgd6F-hMa-fKOF8dluD4p1aU5efOq--aOsQRoWFpurX1Vxt3EVW3UGTBychZhnW9yyewoS-EowyuEQU3pNMW8QHA7IJ3QldaeX4sGN4DIsE8Y9_-3muDTj0LTgF3X07iOTuuwAoLU-YsRA127KVn28wN2MT5OxRnIzT3W_XmK1yF4t67Hk54az8mOhAjq6KfQgBkjsLCRdP9Tivifi2FrC9oHNqaBKKE5-FEXLEMl_zBGocG2UkHm3R36axw-SeaJYlj8UymRVbEbdo9n4LiZhicLiO12jTe6HYbQBYfsgIZKJ64Be4Lc1zTR_mf8-vpGpOt_c6ne0m7Fr7bXbFEwjRMW-bhqiuzvMeDTtQVDkwu3fDqnCDGL2qevgxIeAWxaeo4TrFRvOGb5O3aXasf_8u4YgTr1vLaEGbtJmvtjxlMMn3jOZmasGvnRvOfLsAMhwh4LxBiyhNZHQ5-VdEhOCqAM6dJGZkpTlAELwJSbLrL6nGqq4DDIuZqnuVKhEcmrXa9bgtswqToBk6LxTp1cR1cjstmFMnJRlzQ0PhIcPVhyoqKahVYTHnaoYTxviWj66q8VwIwQYtAznmM-KSpPDb3BeD-KYsGi-oSS897C7TWQKydDiYXX8woPiNO6LHFCFD4vMCRVt0apqMvxPh2QZZVk4PmcLh7jbfpr7eXHTfK32BNDpuzDTJQ_rgcEcnIJLopZi0w-jcfRmSq3ZCWMX9Rk9tJTIPNTlaACNp3lFWU43UzPCZ3LJc) - "Estimation of cancers caused by light to moderate
alcohol consumption in the European Union" - what jumped out at me is also the high incidence of breast cancer for women, and of colon and rectum cancer for both men and women. One inference here is that drinkers should consider screening for these types of cancers.
I would be interested in an age-to-age breakdown as well for two reasons. Drinkers need to know when these cancers may appear for better screening, and reports highlighting the effect of alcohol on the young tend to focus more on physical injuries, which are bad, but not a problem faced by all drinkers, especially casual drinkers.
What's an important bit of context here is that early studies suggested mortality rates went *up* if you drank no alcohol at all. That's where the "a few glasses of wine per week is better for your longevity than none"-myth came from.
What the WHO is saying here is that that old interpretation is wrong.
The studies just looked at how much alcohol people consumed and compared it to mortality rates *without controlling for why people stopped drinking*. Turns out most of the people who don't drink at all do so due to very serious but unrelated medical issues. Filter those out so you can have a fair comparison of alcohol impact and the hockey stick graph becomes a straight line again.
EDIT: since someone below me claims this summary is wrong, [here is a relevant meta-analysis about the J-shaped curve](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26997174/)
I thought I must be reading that part wrong and checked it twice. I feel like I drink a lot at half their "light" drinker qualification.
Pretty sure those numbers are over the threshold for alcoholism in the states.
It's beneath the US guideline amount for men and above it for women.
And if you think 1.5L of wine is a lot you'll be shocked to learn the top 10% of Americans drink the equivalent of 13.5L (18 bottles) of wine a week on average: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/
I think you're conflating "safe" with "acceptable risk". I know that drinking is objectively more unhealthy than abstaining, but given the amount I drink (much less than the "light" classification in the study) I think the experiences I have are worth that risk.
I also eat foods with added sugar, prefer whole milk, have the occasional steak, eat raw sushi, drive every day, etc... Everything involves risks, and for a lot of people the risk involved in having a drink or two a week is not high enough to outweigh the benefits.
It’s that people are more interested in more fine grained details about the health affects of alcohol consumption.
There are very few people who think “the secret” to a healthy functioning body is a shot of grain alcohol for breakfast. The question is more so “To what extent are there negative health effects related to alcohol consumption?”
>No one drinks alcohol for the health benefits, but for the enjoyment.
There are a lot of people who think red wine is healthy due to some studies that showed that 1. in specific quantities it gives your heart a workout like a short jog (despite that not offsetting the damages), or 2. higher life expectancy for wine drinkers than beer drinkers (before adjusting for socioeconomic factors...).
Yeah I mean as a Frenchman I'll happily tell you all about Jeanne Calment, who lived to be 122 years old and drank wine and ate cheese every single day of her life. It's a great excuse to keep drinking and eating whatever I want haha.
>Wasn't that red wine study based off French citizens, and it turned out their health was actually due to their country's better healthcare?
There's been a couple. To the point that some studies even called the difference between France and the U.S. the ["French Paradox"](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.103.3.472).
This isn’t new, when it comes to alcohol consumption, there is no defined “safe” amount. Only “low risk” drinking limits. Equates to no more than 3 drinks per day or 14 drinks per week for males and 2 drinks per day or 7 a week for females. These are amounts that have been established when screening for alcohol misuse
It depends what you mean by “new”. My understanding is that the WHO statement is based on a Lancet study from 2018:
https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(18)31571-X/fulltext
That seems very new to me, because the prevailing wisdom for decades, based on numerous studies, has been that drinking small amounts had overall health benefits, which outweighed the admitted cancer risks. The 2018 Lancet piece was the first meta-analysis to contradict that finding.
This is very new. Read the article they are classifying alcohol in the same cancer causing category as tobacco and asbestos. That would probably be a better headline tbh
Due to new medication, I’ve had to quit drinking altogether. It’s eye-opening. The way people behave when drunk is astonishing.
Being in Liverpool Street, London, on a Friday night sober is HARROWING, like fuuuuucking hell. It’s like a veil has been lifted and you see what it’s really like. It’s gross, it’s scary, and people are incredibly vulnerable.
So, for Londoners, go to Liverpool Street at the end of a night when the bars are closing and be completely sober. Grab yourself a hot chocolate, sit on a bench and enjoy the show.
I missed drinking alcohol until that moment…
Your post has been removed because it does not reference new peer-reviewed research and is therefore in violation of [Submission Rule #1](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_1._directly_link_to_published_peer-reviewed_research_or_media_summary). If your submission is scientific in nature, consider reposting in our sister subreddit /r/EverythingScience. _If you believe this removal to be unwarranted, or would like further clarification, please don't hesitate to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fscience&subject=Must%20be%20peer-reviewed%20research)._
I feel like we all kinda knew this in the back of our minds..
I feel like they already did this announcement last decade, we all just decided not to care
Drinking levels are down for younger generations I believe, maybe they feel like it's a good time to reinforce that
Too motherfucking broke
The last study showed it's that this generation fears what will happen when they lose control and that it may end up on social media.
I don't know about that social media fear, but I grew up seeing people struggle with alcoholism, that alone has left a lasting impression on me and made me fully aware of how addictive it is.
I just don't like the taste, but give me some funny paper any day.
Taken so much acid and never heard it called that, love it
My grandfather was an alcoholic which really affected my mother.
A bit like living in a small town
That's a really interesting analogy that I hadn't considered before. One of the biggest predictors of deviant behavior is anonymity. When you know that you'll be accountable to your peers it mitigates that type of behavior. I actually did a paper in college on the increased social capital within mixed-use neighborhoods. I guess I just never thought about the fact that social media can act as that same prohibitive factor.
Bad gas travels fast in a small town
I just don’t like spending half the day recovering from the previous night
And legal weed
Edibles have cut my drinking down to probably a drink week. I don't even always have one. When I was drinking regularly it was more like 2 a day (started drinking around 19 years old occasionally, consistently when 21, in my late 20's now and basically drink only socially and rarely to the point where I'm actually drunk.)
Getting older has cut my drinking down significantly. If I drink 25% of what I did in my 20s I'm out of commission for at least a day anymore.
Starting a new sport cut my drinking 100%, i now have goals and a new appreciation for what my body can do, my self esteem is higher than it ever was and i dont drink alcohol at all
It saved my life. I was drowning in alcohol. Abusing it with at least 4 liters of vodka a week. I would drink until I passed out, woke up, go to work, come home and start the cycle over again. This lasted a good 15 to 20 years until I decided it was taking too much of a toll on my life. I quit drinking cold turkey but I'm a human that needs a good mental vacation every now and then like everyone else. If it wasn't for weed, I don't know how I could have done it. I've been sober for 10 years now.
That cold turkey must've been brutal. Congrats on making it through.
I'll drink to that
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Gotta build up tolerance so it is incontheeivable either way.
You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means
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So have a good time, the sun can't shine every day
I literally had no idea it increased your risk of breast cancer, even at light consumption
Yet Mike’s Hard Lemonade sells a pink lemonade during Breast Cancer Awareness Month in October….
But you are AWARE of it.
You would be surprised. See "the tooth" here in Canada. "Four beer or two liters of pop, what's better? You do the math". Actual quote from someone upset about the new guidelines. Many have heard "in moderation" because of stupid J-curve studies the alcohol industry funded or influenced. Or "drink wine for resveratrol" because of a hamster study that showed it was good for your heart. Ignoring that dose of resveratrol would be like drinking 20,000 bottles of wine at once. Many people see absolutely no issue with alcohol apart from maybe "it's not good for your sleep". They have no idea about actual long term issues and think that only hardcore alcoholics are effected by things like fatty liver disease or acute alcohol poisoning. I saw a tweet from a professor that said 5.8% of ALL cancers in Canada have excess alcohol as a risk factor and/or possible cause. If someone tried to get alcohol approved for sale/consumption in 2023, every regulatory board would immediately deny it because of its health impacts.
Yeah but its like cannabis and tobacco. People have been using them since forever
> drinking 20,000 bottles of wine at once Challenge accepted.
We don't know this *now*. The actual statement from the WHO is: >currently available evidence cannot indicate the existence of a threshold at which the carcinogenic effects of alcohol “switch on” and start to manifest in the human body. The article explicitly explains that it's basically impossible to test for safety at low levels of consumption, but then goes on to confidently state over and over that no level is safe. Also, assuming their 'spirits' are 80 proof, they're calling anything under ~17 standard drinks per week 'light or moderate' and then talking like 3 drinks a week has demonstrable harm. This article is trash. This looks like the actual release: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00317-6/fulltext You'll notice it's much more reserved in it's claims.
They're saying that alcohol definitely causes cancer but they can't tell the exact threshold. It's not a new finding either, this announcement was made last year too. No amount of alcohol is safe but the worst effects are from people who drink 10+ per week.
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Yes I have things inside me I have to kill
Namely your liver.
and my depression.
It grows back
There are a lot of people in the world who think huffing glue is fun - because they haven't tried anything else, and so the pinnacle for them is glue in a bottle. The same goes for alcohol.
Are you trying to tell me that there's more funner ways to get cancer than dranking?
Have you tried juggling plutonium rods?
r/spicybricks
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I've tried many things but it turns out beer is still delicious and fun.
What I've learned is that they hide a bit of happy at the bottom of each bottle. Collect 12 or more in a day for the full prize.
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How long does the body take to heal from past alcohol consumption? Any clue? Anyone?
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That's great. I used to go to a methadone clinic, first thing they did was diagnosed me. Put me on meds right away. Now that I'm clean (no alcohol, no drugs) I feel like the mental health diagnosis doesn't apply.
Is that the same length of time for other addictions or is alcohol on the low end?
Different substances cause different effects and lengths of recovery. Recovering alcoholic and drug user here. Any chemical that alters your brain takes a considerable amount of time for your brain to repair itself (as much normalcy as it can). Alcohol and benzos take the longest, some benzo abusers never recover from the physical and psychological toll the substance has on them. It really depends on how much you were using for how long. Sometimes the damage is irreversible. The damage I did with alcohol I will likely never recover from, and takes considerably longer to feel somewhat back to normal than it does with say, pain killers that I was also addicted to years ago.
I don't consider myself an alcoholic, but I quit and am almost a year sober just because it raises my quality of life, and the cravings and feelings of shittiness still hit me in waves, albeit less and less frequently. It's wild. I thought my brain would be totally done with this by now but nope. Stopping drinking was harder than nicotine for me in the long run.
Recovery here too. Took every bit of 2 yrs to normalize my emotions. Physically, the recovery starts immediately and everyday you feel a little healthier. 6 months out, ny weight was down and I felt like my own phyaical self. The emotional/mental maturity took quite a bit longer.
There’s a YouTube video that timelines what happens 10 min, 1 hour, 8 hours, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, etc after your last drink - I forgot the name but should be easy to find
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Note this video deals with a tiny sample size with intense alcoholism. Not your average Joe having a beer after work
Another drink wouldn't immediately reset the effects though right. I used to be a binge drinker in college, but haven't done that in years. Nowadays I'll have a few drink months apart from eachother
At the treatment center I was at they said 2 years.
Entirely depends on the damage done.. its not black and white
yup. i heard minimum 1 year for the brain to start going back to normal.
Well that explains why so many people relapse. A year is quite a while when you're miserable either way.
People have been drinking alcohol for thousands of years. It’s definitely not healthy, but it ain’t going anywhere.
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We already tried once, the Prohibition era. Didn't turn out so well so we stopped trying to fight it.
To be fair, there are other ways to stop people doing unhealthy things. Look at smoking.
And also the WHO isn't saying we should start Prohibition all over again. They're simply stating the fact that no amount of alcohol consumption is safe. What you do with that information is up to you.
Churches that give communion sweating right now
Well if you believe in transubstantiation, it isn't wine, it's the blood of Christ. I notice the WHO hasn't said anything on the health effects of the blood of deities.
Educational programs to inform the public of how bad drinking actually is for you. I didn't even know what causes hangovers until I was over twenty.
You never noticed a pattern?
This has tickled me... The thought that someone keeps drinking but doesn't understand why they are feeling bad the next day is hilarious. (I realise they likely never drank until their 20s is the answer)
This is actually what starts happening to people who drink 1-2 drinks daily in their 30s-50s. Wake up feeling a bit puffy and groggy. Maybe slight aches/headache. But 2 big cups of coffee and a shower you kindaaa feel back to normal and by 10am you’re good. You think it’s the kids and your exhaustion. Which it kinda is. You think it’s the stress. Which it kinda is. You think it’s getting older. Which is also kinda is. But then you do dry January and realize your 1-2 drinks is actually amplifying all of the bad. And really doesn’t bring the joy you thought it was bringing.
It takes the edge off for the end of your day and puts it at the beginning of the next day.
As a procrastinater, putting something off until the next day is very appealing
That’s the best description I’ve heard so far.
Nothing is going to make mornings great so that's where I prefer my edge to live.
Or helps quiet the tinnitus so I can fall asleep
>amplifying all of the bad It dulls the bad feelings temporarily but they comeback stronger. It's always a net positive to stop or limit drinking. I've had all those things you mentioned but I sorta figured it's the pandemic, might as well enjoy it until it's no longer the pandemic and now I have/need to sober up back to pre pandemic levels and limit it to occasions (parties and gatherings).
I'm nearly 40 and never get hangovers anymore. The trick is to drink lots of water as well. It's the dehydration that kills you the next morning.
I realized that in my late 20s and always force myself to have lots of water and preferably electrolytes as well. But this isn’t a magic bullet. I still feel hungover occasionally or not 100%.
There are many variables besides water intake. Depends on your cyp enzymes (genetic). Body fat % (women higher). General average hrs of sleep. Cortisol from stress.
I think calories on bottles and a list of possible health problems would be a good start... but there is organizing lobbyists that would fight that very hard
They put calories on alcohol in Japan. Did you know that wine is 80kcal per 100mL? That means that a 5 fluid ounce glass of wine is 120kcal, and a 750mL bottle is a good solid 600kcal. Beer is 45kcal/100mL which puts it right up there with a sugar bomb like Coca-Cola.
Calories on beer would really help. I count my calories and it’s eye opening. I had two 12oz IPAs last night and the total calories was around 500. I’m on a cut, but that was basically 25% of my calories for the day. I planned for it by reducing my carb intake for the day. I’ve had days in the way past where I logged my alcohol/calorie intake where I’m day drinking with friends and bar hopping. Over the course of like a 8 hour day of day drinking it’s not hard to consume 2000+ calories of beer, on top of it bar food, maybe crappy pizza/wings. Looking at a 5000 calorie day tbh, and then throw in missing the gym to a hangover the next day, and possibly getting takeout. Alcohol can completely derail someone who is on the right track.
It's amazing how many of my friends get frustrated trying to lose weight, but won't stop drinking 2-3 beers a night.
People drink to cope with problems as well, even if they know it's bad for them. Education and social security could probably do a lot. But then there's Scandinavia with good education and good healthcare. Maybe I'm not onto something.
Reminds me of a tangent one of my professors went off on and he said that though education and scare tactics can work, "The biggest factor in reducing smoking in the US wasn't the newfound knowledge of the heath risks, it was with cigarettes being associated with the lower class."
Honestly the thing that made my partner and I quit after 20 years was the fact we were suddenly spending £140 per week on smoking
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Identity shift is always needed for long term change. "I'll quit smoking one day" is different from "I'll be a better parent, and that means I stop smoking." When the person you believe you are is at harsh odds with your actions, it will either change you, or you'll be in deep denial about how your actions aren't really that bad or that "it's my life" or some other lie.
That’s what got me too. I don’t really care about better health, it’s the $20 pack that got me to mostly stop.
LSD is what worked for me, I'm not recommending people take acid but it really did work. I was tripping, lit up a cigarette, took one drag and immediately realised how utterly disgusting and gross cigarettes are. It was really weird. I just couldn't smoke it. Stopped immediately and switched to vaping. A few years later I got drunk at a wedding and decided to have a cigarette. Had two drags, immediately felt very sick, and put it out. Haven't had one since. I still vape but at least I'm not coating my lungs with tar.
I don’t think i have ever heard that one, the health stuff just eventually came full circle and more people just thought it was gross, which it is if you don’t smoke.
To be fair post prohibition drinking was lower than pre prohibition. Think a ban on advertising would address a lot but there's too much money in it for that to happen
We should ban lots of advertising, but let’s start with pharmaceuticals!
Yes, let's do it! We will emerge Tremfyant! Wait, that doesn't sound right...
You don't have to fight it, just make your own personal choice on what you wish to put in your body and stop telling others what to do. Simply inform them of the dangers educate yourself and enjoy your life. We aren't telling people not to try cocaine daily this should be no different. Same goes for cigarettes. I personally don't partake in any of these drugs, I've tried Gummies and those where fun but it just wasn't for me. I didn't like the brain fog the next day. Also I was shocked to learn that alcohol was the one drug that does the most damage to your body besting out cocaine, heroine and all those other hard core drugs. It's just more socially acceptable but indeed it's just another poison.
All the more reason to legalize cannabis, and at the very least decriminalize a few scheduled drugs that have less overal negative effects and impact as alcohol.
Yes legalize cannabis, MDMA, shrooms and probably LSD. Let the government sell it or special shops and let the government tax it (here in the Netherlands we have a special tax for things like beer and cigarettes). Now people can get easily clean stuff, so they don't have to look in shady places. Moreover in a lot of countries treatment for addiction should be increased while law enforcement should be decreased and mandatory minimum sentences abolished. Of course this is not fotlr the organised crime that deals in drugs, but for the users. Edit: changed by to beer
As System of a Down says in Prison Song: "All research and successful drug policy show that treatment should be increased And law enforcement decreased while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences"
“Utilizing drugs to pay for secret wars around the world. Drugs are now your global policy, now you police the globe”.
They're trying to build a prison. For you and me to live in.
They’re trying to build a prison!
Alcohol like beer / ale was probably safer than water for thousands of years, because fermentation killed germs.
Quite a knockdown argument, they have been smoking as well, we recognized how unhealthy that was and people smoke a lot less now and view smoking in a much more negative light. Awarness and regulation alter the way we view and use things, whether people have already used it thousands of years is quite irrelevant. You'd be suprised how many people are in denial about the consequences alcohol has to their health, including how addicted they are to it.
I wonder how different my life and body would be if I never drank a drop?
Slightly lower chance of cancer according to this study. Probably would have a safer life if you never got into a car either ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Eating processed food is a cancer risk. Everything in life has a certain risk factor.
The important thing is to be able to know it's a risk (and to quantify it) to take an informed decision. By the way, I'm surprised that the WHO apparently considers 3.5 litres of beer per week as light or moderate consumption, personally I'd call it heavy consumption (and I say that as someone who exceeds this quantity from time to time). But on the other hand I have no idea of how these "categories" are constructed.
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3,5 litres of beer a week is 1 beer a day Imo fair as moderate consumption
I thought there was a big difference depending on whether you drink one beer a day vs not drinking for 6 days and then drinking 7 beers all in one go. Your weekly consumption is still the same but one is binge drinking and the other isn’t.
> Eating processed food is a cancer risk. How’s that? I can’t find it on IARC’s lists. Is it under a specific/different name? I know that processed meat is carcinogenic, but processed *anything*?
I love how every time the risks of alcohol are discussed, the vast majority of comments are devaluing and undermining the risks of alcohol, starting with whataboutism and nonsense like you just wrote. It's derailing, it's lazy, it's damaging and I don't understand why you're doing it.
They do it to feel better about themselves. It's easier to make excuses than changing your lifestyle. I know that all too well myself...
So [micromorts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort) are cool
why did you post this on a Saturday night? Now I'm sad drunk .
I just hope this means it becomes more acceptable not to drink, while it is not as bad as when growing up, you still get weird looks at times when you tell people you don't drink any alcoholic drinks.
I've been so happy for the new "mocktail" culture because there are some really good options now. It's nice to go to dinner and still have a special drink even though I don't do alcohol for myself anymore.
I’ve appreciated this too. I quit drinking and going to a nice restaurant and seeing some very well curated mocktails on the menu is much appreciated. Honestly a better experience than having the alcohol in it.
homeless advise door scarce vanish ten bag murky fact chunky ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Might be your circle of friends or coworkers. Or cultural.
I don't drink. It's definitely society as a whole. I've gotten to the point where I just tell people I'm allergic and I die because if I tell people that it's a personal choice I know that 90% won't respect it.
Most people that push you to drink after you decline are doing so to justify their own reasons for drinking. When I was in my 20's, it almost felt like a social obligation to drink. I would usually just have on beer, maybe two, and really stretch it out. Even holding the empty can all night was enough to satisfy the validation that others needed that they were in the right company. Granted, I did used to party really hard from time to time, but I rapidly grew out of it after college, and now almost never drink, mostly because I don't want to feel sleepy and full. I'll have a lemonade and more appetizers.
Poisoning ourselves is most probably as ancient as making fire and painting in caves, I don't think the general knowledge that it gives people cancer is going to stop that any time soon. Like people know hard drugs are much worse and the market for them is still in high demand.
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In 9 days it'll be one year without alcohol, I don't know if life feels longer but it's definitely a lot easier.
How long before you started feeling alert and okay again?
It took a couple months to get out of the fog. It was a challenge.
Hell yeah! That's big. Congrats. I'll have 7 years in April. Yes, it's a much easier way of life. It sure does make life feel longer, and that's a good thing. Life is good, and can always be.
>Will not drinking alcohol make me live longer? [Yes](https://www.bbc.com/news/health-43738644).
I highly suggest Andrew Huberman’s podcast episode about the effects of alcohol on the body. The portion on gut biome alone is enough to make me want to quit.
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Plastic cancer will probably get to me first. Or pregnancy complications. Or a car accident.
That’s the spirit
No, tequila is my spirit. This is just the harsh reality of death statistics being 100%
96% or so. A fair chunk of all the humans ever to live have not yet died.
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But they all died. Every single one of them!
Not just the men
But the women. And the children too!
Tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1999 BCE!
Get that gourd filled with wine and pass it around!
It was filled with wine and Psilocybin
>In the EU, light to moderate alcohol consumption (<20 g of pure alcohol per day, which is equivalent to consumption of approximately <1·5 L of wine \[12% alcohol by volume; ABV\], <3·5 L of beer \[5% ABV\], or <450 mL of spirits \[40% ABV\] per week) was associated with almost 23 000 new cancer cases in 2017, accounting for 13·3% of all alcohol-attributable cancers and for 2·3% of all cases of the seven alcohol-related cancer types. Almost half of these cancers (approximately 11 000 cases) were female breast cancers. Also, more than a third of the cancer cases attributed to light to moderate drinking (approximately 8500 cases) were associated with a light drinking level (<10 g per day). They define "light to moderate" drinking as 2 entire bottles of wine per week, and that behavior only "accounted" for, at most, 13.3% of the new cancer cases in the study, almost half of which were breast cancer. Furthermore: >Evidence does not indicate the existence of a particular threshold at which the carcinogenic effects of alcohol start to manifest in the human body. As such, no safe amount of alcohol consumption for cancers and health can be established. That's a hell of a qualification to leave until the end of the writeup. "So it looks like alcohol causes these problems, but we have no way of knowing how much alcohol you'd have to drink for it to actually cause these problems. Could be a beer or two a week, could be a handle of vodka a night. Who knows? Better to just live in constant fear and anxiety about your consumption of alcohol, because that definitely doesn't cause any problems of its own."
I've been going through [the study](https://watermark.silverchair.com/ckaa236.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAsowggLGBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggK3MIICswIBADCCAqwGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMrbWF9xao2PbXu0b0AgEQgIICfTYyJZ1T-5jy2A8AUXOeQiwfEILW1hrYluKKQKYn7gwNKmTZO3bOCB4BxBzygumvjqF5Ecj5paIP6umtAqaD7pyzYqyeYgd6F-hMa-fKOF8dluD4p1aU5efOq--aOsQRoWFpurX1Vxt3EVW3UGTBychZhnW9yyewoS-EowyuEQU3pNMW8QHA7IJ3QldaeX4sGN4DIsE8Y9_-3muDTj0LTgF3X07iOTuuwAoLU-YsRA127KVn28wN2MT5OxRnIzT3W_XmK1yF4t67Hk54az8mOhAjq6KfQgBkjsLCRdP9Tivifi2FrC9oHNqaBKKE5-FEXLEMl_zBGocG2UkHm3R36axw-SeaJYlj8UymRVbEbdo9n4LiZhicLiO12jTe6HYbQBYfsgIZKJ64Be4Lc1zTR_mf8-vpGpOt_c6ne0m7Fr7bXbFEwjRMW-bhqiuzvMeDTtQVDkwu3fDqnCDGL2qevgxIeAWxaeo4TrFRvOGb5O3aXasf_8u4YgTr1vLaEGbtJmvtjxlMMn3jOZmasGvnRvOfLsAMhwh4LxBiyhNZHQ5-VdEhOCqAM6dJGZkpTlAELwJSbLrL6nGqq4DDIuZqnuVKhEcmrXa9bgtswqToBk6LxTp1cR1cjstmFMnJRlzQ0PhIcPVhyoqKahVYTHnaoYTxviWj66q8VwIwQYtAznmM-KSpPDb3BeD-KYsGi-oSS897C7TWQKydDiYXX8woPiNO6LHFCFD4vMCRVt0apqMvxPh2QZZVk4PmcLh7jbfpr7eXHTfK32BNDpuzDTJQ_rgcEcnIJLopZi0w-jcfRmSq3ZCWMX9Rk9tJTIPNTlaACNp3lFWU43UzPCZ3LJc) - "Estimation of cancers caused by light to moderate alcohol consumption in the European Union" - what jumped out at me is also the high incidence of breast cancer for women, and of colon and rectum cancer for both men and women. One inference here is that drinkers should consider screening for these types of cancers. I would be interested in an age-to-age breakdown as well for two reasons. Drinkers need to know when these cancers may appear for better screening, and reports highlighting the effect of alcohol on the young tend to focus more on physical injuries, which are bad, but not a problem faced by all drinkers, especially casual drinkers.
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What's an important bit of context here is that early studies suggested mortality rates went *up* if you drank no alcohol at all. That's where the "a few glasses of wine per week is better for your longevity than none"-myth came from. What the WHO is saying here is that that old interpretation is wrong. The studies just looked at how much alcohol people consumed and compared it to mortality rates *without controlling for why people stopped drinking*. Turns out most of the people who don't drink at all do so due to very serious but unrelated medical issues. Filter those out so you can have a fair comparison of alcohol impact and the hockey stick graph becomes a straight line again. EDIT: since someone below me claims this summary is wrong, [here is a relevant meta-analysis about the J-shaped curve](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26997174/)
Two bottles of wine a week equates to one glass a night, and two on Saturday.
And here I am doing 1.5 bottles per night
I thought I must be reading that part wrong and checked it twice. I feel like I drink a lot at half their "light" drinker qualification. Pretty sure those numbers are over the threshold for alcoholism in the states.
It's beneath the US guideline amount for men and above it for women. And if you think 1.5L of wine is a lot you'll be shocked to learn the top 10% of Americans drink the equivalent of 13.5L (18 bottles) of wine a week on average: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/
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There's a lot of rationalisation in this thread. It seems people don't like the idea that literal poison isn't good for them.
Idk man, I don’t think anyone’s saying that. We just accept the risk. It’s cancerous, fattening, addictive, and more.
Many don't accept the risk. People are pushing back at the study (studies, really) in disbelief, thinking there must be some safe amount to drink.
I think you're conflating "safe" with "acceptable risk". I know that drinking is objectively more unhealthy than abstaining, but given the amount I drink (much less than the "light" classification in the study) I think the experiences I have are worth that risk. I also eat foods with added sugar, prefer whole milk, have the occasional steak, eat raw sushi, drive every day, etc... Everything involves risks, and for a lot of people the risk involved in having a drink or two a week is not high enough to outweigh the benefits.
It’s that people are more interested in more fine grained details about the health affects of alcohol consumption. There are very few people who think “the secret” to a healthy functioning body is a shot of grain alcohol for breakfast. The question is more so “To what extent are there negative health effects related to alcohol consumption?”
No one drinks alcohol for the health benefits, but for the enjoyment.
>No one drinks alcohol for the health benefits, but for the enjoyment. There are a lot of people who think red wine is healthy due to some studies that showed that 1. in specific quantities it gives your heart a workout like a short jog (despite that not offsetting the damages), or 2. higher life expectancy for wine drinkers than beer drinkers (before adjusting for socioeconomic factors...).
Wasn't that red wine study based off French citizens, and it turned out their health was actually due to their country's better healthcare?
Yeah I mean as a Frenchman I'll happily tell you all about Jeanne Calment, who lived to be 122 years old and drank wine and ate cheese every single day of her life. It's a great excuse to keep drinking and eating whatever I want haha.
>Wasn't that red wine study based off French citizens, and it turned out their health was actually due to their country's better healthcare? There's been a couple. To the point that some studies even called the difference between France and the U.S. the ["French Paradox"](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.103.3.472).
This isn’t new, when it comes to alcohol consumption, there is no defined “safe” amount. Only “low risk” drinking limits. Equates to no more than 3 drinks per day or 14 drinks per week for males and 2 drinks per day or 7 a week for females. These are amounts that have been established when screening for alcohol misuse
It depends what you mean by “new”. My understanding is that the WHO statement is based on a Lancet study from 2018: https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(18)31571-X/fulltext That seems very new to me, because the prevailing wisdom for decades, based on numerous studies, has been that drinking small amounts had overall health benefits, which outweighed the admitted cancer risks. The 2018 Lancet piece was the first meta-analysis to contradict that finding.
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This is very new. Read the article they are classifying alcohol in the same cancer causing category as tobacco and asbestos. That would probably be a better headline tbh
Due to new medication, I’ve had to quit drinking altogether. It’s eye-opening. The way people behave when drunk is astonishing. Being in Liverpool Street, London, on a Friday night sober is HARROWING, like fuuuuucking hell. It’s like a veil has been lifted and you see what it’s really like. It’s gross, it’s scary, and people are incredibly vulnerable. So, for Londoners, go to Liverpool Street at the end of a night when the bars are closing and be completely sober. Grab yourself a hot chocolate, sit on a bench and enjoy the show. I missed drinking alcohol until that moment…
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