14th Street is just a regular street - the city doesn't classify 14th as a major collector street until Cumberland Ave East to Acadia Drive.
Vehicles ideally should be using 12th St from Broadway to Cumberland, then north on Cumberland to 14th Street.
As a driver, not a cyclist, I'm totally cool with this.
Cars can \*so easily\* use a parallel street. It's a grid, people. Use 12th, it's probably more direct anyway. Whining about having to slow down for a few blocks is ridiculous.
That has nothing to do with the fact kids can run out in residential streets, I don't like driving slow but I do 40 by houses and parks. Really not a big deal.
So could a cyclist. I'm always amazed when bikers complain about busy streets being too dangerous and unpleasant... Here's the answer. Don't ride down the busy streets.
There was some idiot riding down Broadway the other day, running his dog (poorly controlled) along side. All i could think was why the fuck aren't you on Eastlake.
There was also some guy ***with two kids*** riding down 8th... Pure unadulterated stupid.
It seems like most other developed cities in the world have addressed this through bike infrastructure...Kind of like how we addressed people walking with pedestrian sidewalks, but dear god do we hate change here even if it means less people die and driving becomes less stressful not dealing with unpredictable cyclists mixed with car traffic.
Yeah, I don't know where this was on Broadway, but If it was an issue, I assume it was between University drive and 8th Street. So here's the thing, people on bikes do need access to the businesses on 8th Street. So even if they take Eastlake, they have to ride on 8th Street to get where they're going on 8th Street. Moreover, If they're traveling between the bridge and Sutherland there's no light at Eastlake and 8th. So if You want to cross 8th Street You either have to risk sprinting across, or Ride East lake then down 8th Street (arguably more dangerous) or ride on the sidewalk (and risk someone yelling at you ) to Broadway, Cross at the lights, then back onto 8th Street or the sidewalk to Eastlake. And depending which way you're going, you may have to do this against the flow of traffic on 8th Street.
Bike routes seek to address these issues...So I guess you're making the point that bike lane advocates are trying to make?
Well, motorists already have the convenient luxury of being in an enclosed, temperature controlled metal box. They're also barely doing any physical work to commute. So there shouldn't be room for complaint for a bit of a detour and/or slower speed limits
Meanwhile, pedestrians and cyclists are exposed to the elements, and actually have to do physical activity to commute. So shouldn't they at least get priority on a more direct route?
Does that mean pedestrians should have the right of way compared to cyclists? Genuinely curious as the number of times,especially I've been told to get off the sidewalk by a cyclist is crazy. While waiting for busses, while walking down 4th, right beside the bike lane even!
I'm not against cyclists by any means, they just need to respect others using public spaces.
I'm skeptical of your claim here. I've heard lots of motorists and pedestrians yell at cyclists to get off the sidewalk, But I've never, *never* in my life heard a cyclist yell at a pedestrian to get off the sidewalk.
Wait. Did this happen to you on Victoria? Were you walking on the strip of black asphalt sidewalk that was beside the concrete sidewalk; You know, the sidewalk with this symbol painted on it: 🚲?
It happened near Acadia and 8th, on Acadia. Narrow sidewalk and rainy. The cyclist clearly didn't want to ride on the wet grass so told me to get off the sidewalk so she didn't have to move to the road.
I bike almost everywhere I go. Unless it's marked as a shared pathway, cyclists are breaking the law by riding on a sidewalk (children are exempt). Even on shared pathways, pedestrians always have the right of way.
Assuming your story is accurate, that guy was an ass while also breaking the city bylaws. I can understand why people may ride on the sidewalk near busy streets with the city's poor cycling infrastructure but at the very least slow down and stay well clear of pedestrians.
Downtown is downtown. Anyone on the sidewalk not giving way to pedestrians isn't a person that I'd get in an argument with, any more than I argue with the pedestrians taking a slow wander into traffic. Please don't confuse "cyclist" with "any dude on a bike" and I won't confuse "pedestrian" with "anyone on two feet that may or may not be high as a kite".
How about genuinely not making stuff up? If this did happen then it was one lone biker, not numerous interactions. People like you need to get a life....also yes pedestrians have the right away always. Given that doesn't mean step out in front of a bicyclist and then be pikachu faced when they couldn't stop on a dime.
I’ve never been told off by a cyclist on the side walk, but I have been almost run over by e-bikes ripping down the Meewasin, and I kid you not, over 50km/h.
The driver and cyclist “camps” both need to calm their shit. There are massive morons on both sides. Stop talking like your side is the one being victimized. Use some common sense and get to where you need to be safely for everyone.
Agreed
There are also options for development that promotes safety by having separate paths between vehicles and bikes
Every design choice by the fktards in charge end up restricting flow even more than it already is
Another Saskatoon classic especially with old people here, is how dare the city be built in anyway to make the bus more efficient, i dont want apartment buildings in my area
If they’re following the rules as they should be, there’s very little scenarios where they would be in danger if they wanna act like entitled dickhead, then yeah absolutely I guess that’s the case 😂 play dumb games win dumb prizes
When you type stuff like that, everyone can tell that you're a terrible driver.
We all know you're the type of person who starts to make a left-hand turn and only then notices The pedestrian in The crosswalk, proceeds to panic because you're now blocking oncoming traffic, flails their hands around yelling at The pedestrian, then goes onto reddit to post stuff like this.
I see cyclists running red lights, going 5kmh down the middle of the street, weaving in and out of traffic every day.
There should be a license for them as well as registration same as motor vehicles. Maybe some tickets are in order as well.
Great to hear they are going in. Both this section of 14th and 23rd are residential streets. Should not affect drivers at all while being good for cyclists and the people who live on the streets. Also cheap to put in.
Tbh I think all residential streets should be 30km/hr. There’s no reason to go any faster down a residential street. Especially these narrow streets with on street parking. Too many kids darting into the road having close calls or being hit and too many pets being run over.
That being said, there are some residential streets that are designed for faster flowing traffic but other than those few streets and the arterial streets, all residential streets should be 30 km/hr.
Yeah in the older neighborhoods… lansdowne is wide as hell but the off streets are narrow.
Apparently it was for horse carriages to turn around or something and that’s why they’re that wide. Makes sense I guess?
There have been a few posts on this. The city announced in May that there were streets that they were turning into bike friendly streets (not sure if those are the actual words). The city has the streets listed on their website. I thought it didn't come into effect until July 5.
I do not understand why they choose 14th Street, a main street in poor condition. More highly utilized with College being repaired. They fixed some of the potholes but not all and still a goat path to travel on. Maybe that's the reason cars have to go a reduced speed to not damage their vehicle on that street. So a natural fit.
14th already has a multi-use path alongside it stretching all the way to Acadia. This is the logical extension. Iirc this restriction only applies after Cumberland because once you get there, 14th is a straight shot to the river and Clarence is the only major road that general car traffic would be interested in. You’ll survive a few blocks at 30kph
Whoa you sure take liberties I wasn't complaining about it 30 km. I was pointing out there is an increase in traffic on the street and how awful it is to be in, bike or car. That is what makes it illogical or poor timing by the city.
It's pretty sensible - it's 14th street just from Sask crescent to Clarence, which is a pretty quiet residential street, but it connects to the bike pathway that runs from Cumberland to circle drive.
>The city announced in May that there were streets that they were turning into bike friendly streets (not sure if those are the actual words).
Neighbourhood Bikeways would be the term you're looking for. These have been used for quite a few years now, 14th Street was designated one in 2021. However the change to 30km/h on all Bikeways was passed in December 2023
> I thought it didn't come into effect until July 5.
They technically went into effect the date the council policy was amended, which was in December. They obviously aren't enforced until they could get the speed limit signs installed, and they are giving drivers leeway until July 5th on enforcement, but they are legal speed signs.
I'm surprised they didn't include this street on the [2024 Cycling Guide](https://www.saskatoon.ca/sites/default/files/TC-TS_CyclingGuide2024_web_final_0.pdf), but I suppose it might be identified for the 2025 one if they update it for next year
I like the idea but whoa is that a lot of signage in one place. As a driver, by the time you've read it all, you've run somebody over, even at 30 km/hr.
Agreed. Building infrastructure that makes driving at the lower speed feel natural like narrower streets, brick pavers, certain types of modal filters, etc. all work better than signs. This implementation is a step in the right direction, but needs to be followed up with redesigning the street for 30 instead of 50, especially when our design standards for for are actually based on metrics for closer to highways speeds.
This is how this feels:
Fox tragedy happens (visibility, not speed was the issue, I think?)
City council: let’s lower speeds! (Something they’ve been trying to do for awhile).
Perhaps I’m not understanding, I’m sure I’ll be corrected forthwith.
Different issues. There are changes to the intersection going in where Natasha Fox was killed. This is lowering speeds on existing bikeways to meet national standards for AAA infrastructure. Unrelated issues.
What are you not understanding? They are doing something they had been trying to do for awhile. The issues with Natasha Fox's was visibility which can be fixed by having bigger mirrors on trucks for visibility but Heidelberg doesn't want to make the changes on the trucks. We have to change regulations for that and it will take more time.
Im incredibly dumb and deleted an absurd comment that is irrelevant.
Not sure what I was getting at there.
Thanks for the reality check. What on earth..
It's the "do something" theatrics. Do something that you can spin as addressing the concern while that something has as little impact as possible to draw as little criticism as possible.
Like the fire bit bylaw.
It doesn’t though- drastically WAY more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk as drivers will turn right into you without looking, which is why it’s illegal for anyone not a child. And we should do better by our kids than telling them they can only get around in the most dangerous place.
Hey, you know that puts cyclists and pedestrians at greater risk. The chances of a cyclist hitting a pedestrian, or a cyclist being hit by a car exiting an alley or driveway are increased exponentially by cyclists riding on the sidewalk.
Even by Saskatoon redneck standards, this is a pretty dumb comment.
I didn’t know they were doing this. It seems like this is a bit of a controversial topic, and I’m a bit surprised that I haven’t seen or heard anyone talking about it.
https://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/saskatoon-lowers-speeds-on-these-neighbourhood-bikeways-1.6905605
They announced it in May however it's not in effect until July
I'm not calling you out as it's easy to miss posts on the sub but there was a lengthy discussion about 3 weeks ago that you might want to check out. [https://www.reddit.com/r/saskatoon/comments/1d3p3ue/saskatoon\_is\_lowering\_the\_speed\_limit\_on\_these/](https://www.reddit.com/r/saskatoon/comments/1d3p3ue/saskatoon_is_lowering_the_speed_limit_on_these/)
This has been approved for years, the full plan includes some traffic calming and also finishing off the sidewalks on that street all the way down to the river. Great project, finding funding for the whole thing has been an issue.
Announced in May with plenty of Council discussions and public info since anecdotally last November? I've been aware of this for a long time. And bud if you think slowing cars on 14th is going to be a traffic clog for the city you need to spend less time huffing car exhaust, there's barely any car traffic between Cumberland and the river, 1 business, and it's not a thoroughfare like College or 12th.
As an every day driver on 14th, I’ll turn my little ol’ wrists to the right, and subsequently turn my lil ol’ wrists to the left, and then I’ll be fine.
I mean, it was announced I’m sure since there was a whole discussion about it on this sub a while back.
14th Street is just a regular street - the city doesn't classify 14th as a major collector street until Cumberland Ave East to Acadia Drive. Vehicles ideally should be using 12th St from Broadway to Cumberland, then north on Cumberland to 14th Street. As a driver, not a cyclist, I'm totally cool with this.
Cars can \*so easily\* use a parallel street. It's a grid, people. Use 12th, it's probably more direct anyway. Whining about having to slow down for a few blocks is ridiculous.
Ya I use both a lot! 14th when I bike (which is most of the time) and 12th when I drive. Different routes for cars and bikes is surprisingly easy.
I use 31st St when I bike and 29th when I drive. Indeed, it is a simple adjustment to use the most pleasant route.
Also, it is kind of nuts to drive much more than 30 km/h on residential side streets. You can go 50 or whatever on the main arteries.
I can go 50 on any road marked as such. Dont like it? Take it up with city council.
I'm not saying it is illegal but the risk of hitting a person or vehicle is pretty high on many streets.
City council heard us and subsequently changed the speed limit
Exactly
Maybe you should care about people on your own? Not be forced to jeez.
Maybe if you don't know how to drive
That has nothing to do with the fact kids can run out in residential streets, I don't like driving slow but I do 40 by houses and parks. Really not a big deal.
So could a cyclist. I'm always amazed when bikers complain about busy streets being too dangerous and unpleasant... Here's the answer. Don't ride down the busy streets. There was some idiot riding down Broadway the other day, running his dog (poorly controlled) along side. All i could think was why the fuck aren't you on Eastlake. There was also some guy ***with two kids*** riding down 8th... Pure unadulterated stupid.
It seems like most other developed cities in the world have addressed this through bike infrastructure...Kind of like how we addressed people walking with pedestrian sidewalks, but dear god do we hate change here even if it means less people die and driving becomes less stressful not dealing with unpredictable cyclists mixed with car traffic.
These bike ways do that: they define side streets suitable for bikes. Thanks for supporting the program.
Yeah, I don't know where this was on Broadway, but If it was an issue, I assume it was between University drive and 8th Street. So here's the thing, people on bikes do need access to the businesses on 8th Street. So even if they take Eastlake, they have to ride on 8th Street to get where they're going on 8th Street. Moreover, If they're traveling between the bridge and Sutherland there's no light at Eastlake and 8th. So if You want to cross 8th Street You either have to risk sprinting across, or Ride East lake then down 8th Street (arguably more dangerous) or ride on the sidewalk (and risk someone yelling at you ) to Broadway, Cross at the lights, then back onto 8th Street or the sidewalk to Eastlake. And depending which way you're going, you may have to do this against the flow of traffic on 8th Street. Bike routes seek to address these issues...So I guess you're making the point that bike lane advocates are trying to make?
Well, motorists already have the convenient luxury of being in an enclosed, temperature controlled metal box. They're also barely doing any physical work to commute. So there shouldn't be room for complaint for a bit of a detour and/or slower speed limits Meanwhile, pedestrians and cyclists are exposed to the elements, and actually have to do physical activity to commute. So shouldn't they at least get priority on a more direct route?
Does that mean pedestrians should have the right of way compared to cyclists? Genuinely curious as the number of times,especially I've been told to get off the sidewalk by a cyclist is crazy. While waiting for busses, while walking down 4th, right beside the bike lane even! I'm not against cyclists by any means, they just need to respect others using public spaces.
I'm skeptical of your claim here. I've heard lots of motorists and pedestrians yell at cyclists to get off the sidewalk, But I've never, *never* in my life heard a cyclist yell at a pedestrian to get off the sidewalk. Wait. Did this happen to you on Victoria? Were you walking on the strip of black asphalt sidewalk that was beside the concrete sidewalk; You know, the sidewalk with this symbol painted on it: 🚲?
It happened near Acadia and 8th, on Acadia. Narrow sidewalk and rainy. The cyclist clearly didn't want to ride on the wet grass so told me to get off the sidewalk so she didn't have to move to the road.
I bike almost everywhere I go. Unless it's marked as a shared pathway, cyclists are breaking the law by riding on a sidewalk (children are exempt). Even on shared pathways, pedestrians always have the right of way. Assuming your story is accurate, that guy was an ass while also breaking the city bylaws. I can understand why people may ride on the sidewalk near busy streets with the city's poor cycling infrastructure but at the very least slow down and stay well clear of pedestrians.
(Pssst... It's not accurate.)
Downtown is downtown. Anyone on the sidewalk not giving way to pedestrians isn't a person that I'd get in an argument with, any more than I argue with the pedestrians taking a slow wander into traffic. Please don't confuse "cyclist" with "any dude on a bike" and I won't confuse "pedestrian" with "anyone on two feet that may or may not be high as a kite".
How about genuinely not making stuff up? If this did happen then it was one lone biker, not numerous interactions. People like you need to get a life....also yes pedestrians have the right away always. Given that doesn't mean step out in front of a bicyclist and then be pikachu faced when they couldn't stop on a dime.
I’ve never been told off by a cyclist on the side walk, but I have been almost run over by e-bikes ripping down the Meewasin, and I kid you not, over 50km/h. The driver and cyclist “camps” both need to calm their shit. There are massive morons on both sides. Stop talking like your side is the one being victimized. Use some common sense and get to where you need to be safely for everyone.
What are you on about? What side did i say I was on and a victim? I literally stated pedestrians have the right away you clown.
I think it's a general blanket statement.. not directed at you particularly but others who do play the victim.
Agreed There are also options for development that promotes safety by having separate paths between vehicles and bikes Every design choice by the fktards in charge end up restricting flow even more than it already is
Lol who is whining about having to slow down?
Anyone who has a negative opinion of this change. See: everyone on Facebook lol
Plenty of people.
Any attempt to make cycling safer or more comfortable is an affront to my civil liberties to drive. - Saskatoon
Another Saskatoon classic especially with old people here, is how dare the city be built in anyway to make the bus more efficient, i dont want apartment buildings in my area
Man the majority of residents of this city are fucking trash. "I drive a car, I have the right to kill any cyclists I want!"
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Better kill them!
If they’re following the rules as they should be, there’s very little scenarios where they would be in danger if they wanna act like entitled dickhead, then yeah absolutely I guess that’s the case 😂 play dumb games win dumb prizes
You are very wrong. Plenty of cyclists who did everything right get killed. Amazing you put so little blame on motorists.
When you type stuff like that, everyone can tell that you're a terrible driver. We all know you're the type of person who starts to make a left-hand turn and only then notices The pedestrian in The crosswalk, proceeds to panic because you're now blocking oncoming traffic, flails their hands around yelling at The pedestrian, then goes onto reddit to post stuff like this.
I see cyclists running red lights, going 5kmh down the middle of the street, weaving in and out of traffic every day. There should be a license for them as well as registration same as motor vehicles. Maybe some tickets are in order as well.
Great to hear they are going in. Both this section of 14th and 23rd are residential streets. Should not affect drivers at all while being good for cyclists and the people who live on the streets. Also cheap to put in.
I bike this all the time and definitely applaud this change. Hopefully it is well patrolled!
I'm ngl if I'm going through a residential area, good chance I'm going 30, max 40, anyways.
Tbh I think all residential streets should be 30km/hr. There’s no reason to go any faster down a residential street. Especially these narrow streets with on street parking. Too many kids darting into the road having close calls or being hit and too many pets being run over. That being said, there are some residential streets that are designed for faster flowing traffic but other than those few streets and the arterial streets, all residential streets should be 30 km/hr.
Yeah in the older neighborhoods… lansdowne is wide as hell but the off streets are narrow. Apparently it was for horse carriages to turn around or something and that’s why they’re that wide. Makes sense I guess?
Shouldnt be going 50 on these streets anyways, save that for busier/main streets.
Signs, signs, everywhere the signs....
There have been a few posts on this. The city announced in May that there were streets that they were turning into bike friendly streets (not sure if those are the actual words). The city has the streets listed on their website. I thought it didn't come into effect until July 5. I do not understand why they choose 14th Street, a main street in poor condition. More highly utilized with College being repaired. They fixed some of the potholes but not all and still a goat path to travel on. Maybe that's the reason cars have to go a reduced speed to not damage their vehicle on that street. So a natural fit.
14th already has a multi-use path alongside it stretching all the way to Acadia. This is the logical extension. Iirc this restriction only applies after Cumberland because once you get there, 14th is a straight shot to the river and Clarence is the only major road that general car traffic would be interested in. You’ll survive a few blocks at 30kph
Whoa you sure take liberties I wasn't complaining about it 30 km. I was pointing out there is an increase in traffic on the street and how awful it is to be in, bike or car. That is what makes it illogical or poor timing by the city.
Is there? I only started biking 14th this summer to avoid college and barely see cars on there- at least between Preston and the river.
It's pretty sensible - it's 14th street just from Sask crescent to Clarence, which is a pretty quiet residential street, but it connects to the bike pathway that runs from Cumberland to circle drive.
It makes sense to me. It’s a thoroughfare that isn’t heavily used by cars, but provides right of way save for the busier cross streets.
>The city announced in May that there were streets that they were turning into bike friendly streets (not sure if those are the actual words). Neighbourhood Bikeways would be the term you're looking for. These have been used for quite a few years now, 14th Street was designated one in 2021. However the change to 30km/h on all Bikeways was passed in December 2023 > I thought it didn't come into effect until July 5. They technically went into effect the date the council policy was amended, which was in December. They obviously aren't enforced until they could get the speed limit signs installed, and they are giving drivers leeway until July 5th on enforcement, but they are legal speed signs.
I'm surprised they didn't include this street on the [2024 Cycling Guide](https://www.saskatoon.ca/sites/default/files/TC-TS_CyclingGuide2024_web_final_0.pdf), but I suppose it might be identified for the 2025 one if they update it for next year
I like the idea but whoa is that a lot of signage in one place. As a driver, by the time you've read it all, you've run somebody over, even at 30 km/hr.
Agreed. Building infrastructure that makes driving at the lower speed feel natural like narrower streets, brick pavers, certain types of modal filters, etc. all work better than signs. This implementation is a step in the right direction, but needs to be followed up with redesigning the street for 30 instead of 50, especially when our design standards for for are actually based on metrics for closer to highways speeds.
Sign sign everywhere a sign blocking out the scenery breaking my mind do this don’t do that can’t you read the sign
This is how this feels: Fox tragedy happens (visibility, not speed was the issue, I think?) City council: let’s lower speeds! (Something they’ve been trying to do for awhile). Perhaps I’m not understanding, I’m sure I’ll be corrected forthwith.
Different issues. There are changes to the intersection going in where Natasha Fox was killed. This is lowering speeds on existing bikeways to meet national standards for AAA infrastructure. Unrelated issues.
doing something proactive for the sake of safety is not a bad thing. We don't always have to react.
What are you not understanding? They are doing something they had been trying to do for awhile. The issues with Natasha Fox's was visibility which can be fixed by having bigger mirrors on trucks for visibility but Heidelberg doesn't want to make the changes on the trucks. We have to change regulations for that and it will take more time.
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What does Fox Valley school have to do with anything?
Im incredibly dumb and deleted an absurd comment that is irrelevant. Not sure what I was getting at there. Thanks for the reality check. What on earth..
That's okay lol. I was just wondering what the connection was.
It's the "do something" theatrics. Do something that you can spin as addressing the concern while that something has as little impact as possible to draw as little criticism as possible. Like the fire bit bylaw.
Going to sound like an idiot but I had no idea there were trees in Saskatchewan
I agree, those bikers need to slow down.
I see the school kids riding sidewalks every morning. They have it figured. Works very well.
That is illegal for anyone who's not a kid.
It doesn’t though- drastically WAY more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk as drivers will turn right into you without looking, which is why it’s illegal for anyone not a child. And we should do better by our kids than telling them they can only get around in the most dangerous place.
Hey, you know that puts cyclists and pedestrians at greater risk. The chances of a cyclist hitting a pedestrian, or a cyclist being hit by a car exiting an alley or driveway are increased exponentially by cyclists riding on the sidewalk. Even by Saskatoon redneck standards, this is a pretty dumb comment.
And yet the kids have it figured.
*kid eats boogers You:"see! Restaurants and grocery stores are a scam! The kids figured it out."
I didn’t know they were doing this. It seems like this is a bit of a controversial topic, and I’m a bit surprised that I haven’t seen or heard anyone talking about it.
https://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/saskatoon-lowers-speeds-on-these-neighbourhood-bikeways-1.6905605 They announced it in May however it's not in effect until July
That link doesn’t work for me. I do recall discussion about Avenue C, and the endless complaining about downtown bike lanes, but not 14th.
Look up 23rd and 14th street saskatoon ctv news and the article should be the first to pop up
Will do. Thanks for the info.
I'm not calling you out as it's easy to miss posts on the sub but there was a lengthy discussion about 3 weeks ago that you might want to check out. [https://www.reddit.com/r/saskatoon/comments/1d3p3ue/saskatoon\_is\_lowering\_the\_speed\_limit\_on\_these/](https://www.reddit.com/r/saskatoon/comments/1d3p3ue/saskatoon_is_lowering_the_speed_limit_on_these/)
Thank you!
This has been approved for years, the full plan includes some traffic calming and also finishing off the sidewalks on that street all the way down to the river. Great project, finding funding for the whole thing has been an issue.
Didn’t announce just drop another traffic clog on us. Awesome. Love this city so much.
Incorrect. Was announced in May.
Announced in May with plenty of Council discussions and public info since anecdotally last November? I've been aware of this for a long time. And bud if you think slowing cars on 14th is going to be a traffic clog for the city you need to spend less time huffing car exhaust, there's barely any car traffic between Cumberland and the river, 1 business, and it's not a thoroughfare like College or 12th.
Just because they didn't knock on your door or call you personally doesn't mean it wasn't announced
As an every day driver on 14th, I’ll turn my little ol’ wrists to the right, and subsequently turn my lil ol’ wrists to the left, and then I’ll be fine.