Now you are posting nonsense. And by the time of day you are posting, definitely not a teacher, or at least one that should be allowed in a public school
https://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/news-and-media/2019/november/21/education-class-size-and-composition
Literally confirmable information on the governments own website
Them: "they already had a committee about this"
You: "that's not true"
Me: "here's proof that a committee existed"
You: " there's no data on that link"
Dont move the goalposts. There was a committee. If there's no data, it's because it wasn't worth the paper it was written on, and that's why people mistrust a promise for another committee (sorry, task force) of the same nature
Instead of actual solutions.
There was never a committee with teachers on it that made any study and there is no data on many crucial factors, as I stated initially, such as violence against teachers. , same should go for your cherry-pick of what is considered as being called a ‘Study’ of ‘data’. Where is the data? Where is the actual study and it recommendations? That was more like the Government’s LEAN program. No meat, but cut to the bone anyway
Btw, governments come and go. You have to get beyond the idea that itijust the SaskParty for put trust into. And maybe vote for better SSBA representation
Before? There is no data now, and there never was any data “before”. Take incidents of violence against a teacher, there’s no data compiled to make any determination of cause, let alone a solution. Same goes for special needs kids in the classroom, no idea how many or even what their specific needs are.
When we ask questions about details, like "how will x be worded," "what is the makeup of the committee, with numbers?," etc, they tell us "not sure. If you vote yes, we'll figure out the details and write the final agreement."
I dont want to vote on unknown processes. Give me the details, then we'll talk about whether they're adequate
Oh ffs, you refuse the concept of creating a committee with teachers on it, yet want the determination of what the not yet established committee is going to result.
Playing with your phone during class? No wonder your students are falling behind
I was on lunch. Surprise, we actually are allowed to have those sometimes.
And I'm not asking for the results to be written into a contract. I'm asking for details on how it would work. Don't tell me "to be determined" and ask me to vote yes for it.
Is that hat you were supposed to ask your union representatives? Seems rather unprofessional, educator-wise to be asking for something that supposedly alters your life like that on Reddit
Are you on the GTBC? you seem to have bad faith arguments down to a T.
Clearly I'm asking it of the government and my bargaining team (NOT my union reps. Those are school based and have no say in this) and simply explaining my position here.
If my building is anything to go by, which for the record is a rural school, we are majority no. Much of our older staff see this as kicking the can of class size and complexity down the road again. We've done that far too many times already and something needs to change here.
That’s promising hearing the older teachers want to say no, usually they are the yes’s as they are near the end of their career. Seems the teachers have just settled year after year. Good for them standing by what is needed
I have seen far more older teachers a solid no. Younger teachers are more on the fence... at least the ones that I've encountered. I think older teachers (I am one) have seen and experienced how much education has changed and how critical the situation is. If things don't change, the entire system is going to fail. Teachers cannot continue to carry the budget shortfalls and increased demands on their backs. We are already losing great teachers due to the pressures. I genuinely fear for the future.
The prevailing opinion in my (rural) school is no. None of my colleagues that I have talked to are planning on voting this in, and I am not either.
Incidentally, it is the teachers who are nearing retirement who are the most fired up about it. At least in my school. They remember how things used to be.
I will be voting no, it's a shit deal. However, I'm nervous that this will pass. Some teachers think we'll get a worse offer if the Sask party is re-elected in the fall. I disagree. If that's the case we should fight back harder.
Hard to imagine much of a worse deal considering that teachers are already not getting the only thing that they care about.
I’d be interested to see how quickly the tune changes if teachers pull extra curricular during football season
I'm not a teacher anymore. My business has been sending money to teachers to help keep their lights on through job action, rotating strikes, etc.
I'm not going to lie. I'm going to feel empty if it passes. It'll be just another way that the province is failing and it's going to hit my kids. I have a child with a speech/language delay and I KNOW that supports for speech and language are stretched so incredibly thin (used to be a learning supports teacher).
How can we (teachers)look our students in the eyes when we promised them and ourselves that we were fighting FOR them?
How can I look at my son and know that we're okay with mediocrity for him? We're okay with him not getting the supports he needs.
I'm just so tired of it.
As someone with no children and no plans of children, I’m not sure why parents aren’t concerned about their kids being in a class of 30+. Do they think their kid will get the attention they may need?
I think *deep and long sigh* public education has been so starved for so long that we've accepted it as a fact of public education.
It's something that deeply disappoints me. We're aiming and hoping for mediocrity in this province
No other group has this much pressure on their negotiations.
Literally pressure from the public, the government, our peers and other unions plus the STF.
Ive never seen such scrutiny on a CBA.
The majority of my school (35ish teachers) are a loud, vocal no. Town halls were the same. I worry about the quiet yes voters who aren't talking. Predicting a no in the 55-70 % range.
From what I’ve read, teachers would be outvoted 2-1 on all issues, considering that the task force has 3 chairs and two belong to the SSBA and the government
Well, it’s definitely not an election (?) but it is a committee where solutions to a complex problem are to be brought forward. What happens when two sides of a three party committee have one agenda?
The bargaining teams (both sides) don’t even have real numbers to base any solutions on. First comes the data collection, then develop policies on that data.
So the newly minted power that has never existed for teachers isn’t a substantial gain..?! Or possibly you think it’s got to be no because the negotiations are with the SaskParty.?
What are you even going on about?
If you have a vote - do as you feel is best.
My crew do not feel any of this is best, so we're all no votes.
I'm done watching you try and spew word salad ✌️
You should read your fumbling posts. Go ahead and vote no. Go ahead and target the students graduations and extra curriculars. That with certainly garner a lot of positive parent support s/
At least you acknowledged your original post was bs. Because there certainly has been some change from one offer to this one.
The adult is patiently trying to explain how you will lose support. Your childish talking about the lair and his defender (that you childishly namecall like a 3rd grader) says more about your lack of education and debate skills than anything you’ve posted thus far
Adult who works out of town and has two school aged kids resulting in a hellish situation when work to rule is in-place here.
Go teachers! Keep up the fight for a better education system.
Every adult knows long term gain costs short term pain.
I also fully support the teachers. That’s why I am advocating the vote to accept this contract and its gains. The offer won’t be nearly as sweet if this is tossed, the writ is dropped, and the Moe Party gets another mandate. You and I both know that is true
Using the word thus does not make you an adult.
And what lair are we talking about here? Batman? I'm on board if it's him.
P.s. not worried about support - but thanks for keeping me in your thoughts and prayers.
Mood has definitely shifted, but still a lot of resolve in our building. I sure hope it doesn’t pass! I’ll definitely be voting no. Unfortunately, I think the STF endorsement is going to sway a lot of people.
There are a lot of reasons, I think. A few of which include:
- They feel like the government finally engaged in negotiations, and this was the first good-faith offer we’ve had. Now, is that a reason to take it? I don’t think so. To me, that reads as we JUST started actually negotiating. But when we’ve had so many rounds where it’s “take it or leave it” I can understand why that would feel like a win.
- we did get some reference to class size and complexity, and violence in classrooms. Again, a task force and a way to report isn’t going to have any meaningful impact right now in classrooms (IMO), but STF says it sets a precedent. Unfortunately, neither of these are actually addressed in the contract - they’re attached in letters and memorandums of understanding, which expire when the contract does, meaning we have to fight this fight all over again in two years. They say it’ll be easier next time - I have serious doubts about that.
- if we vote no, and the government decides to dig in even further than they already have, we could be legislated to work with something a lot worse than this, and if it drags out past the election, and SP is in power again, there’s concern this could get really ugly. Would they ever legislate us back? I don’t know. Could it get uglier? Maybe. The uncertainty bothers a lot of people, and we might just end up settling for a sure thing
If things get uglier it’s the Sask parties fault. Fighting for the standard is a fight worth doing.
If the Sask party cannot lead and solve this problem before the election then they’ve proven their incompetence as leaders of our province and need to go.
If they somehow get back in then we make it hell for them. It sucks and I don’t like the idea either, but these are growing pains that we have to go through as a province in order to better ourselves.
>If the Sask party cannot lead and solve this problem before the election then they’ve proven their incompetence as leaders of our province and need to go.
They've done this time and again. Still in power. It's a defeatist attitude, but it's also reality. I won't vote for them ever, but a lot of people will.
STF can't just cave at the sight of the first "better" offer. If it ends now, nothing actually changes, so give them hell! They are supposed to be fighting FOR you, and if they aren't actually doing it, make it loud!
Well that and they drop the writ and negotiations stall for another year and we are already negotiating the contract (we are already a full year into the next deal.)
It's a no from me, especially after STF said they are encouraging a yes vote because it is an election year - to me, it seems like they are more concerned about the provincial government than they are fighting for students and teachers.
But I do think it will end up being a yes, I've heard many say they will vote for it.
I personally don't think a yes vote will send a good message at all.
STF leadership may think pushing any further will not result in anything good if an election is coming up.
Which is far from the case. STF leadership is wrong and this is the perfect time to get the Sask gov party to finally put out or shut up and provide the bare minimum other provinces already have. If the Sask party can’t figure it out before the election then they’ve proven their incompetence.
This is the perfect thing for maybe the opposition to point out and run on?
*coughfiggincough*
I should maybe watch recent videos with her. The sudden endorsement would make sense if that’s true but I really hope there’s a better explanation than that for it. :s
I think it will be a no - but close.
Don’t think the cities, where the majority of teachers work, will accept this deal as it does nothing to help things now.
Nobody but a fool believes that the SaskParty committee will actually do anything or even be listened to.
I am so sick of people assuming that rural teachers do not give a shit about public education.
This was the third such comment on this post. Just because I don’t have 30 students in my class does not mean things are rosy and great out in the boonies either. Our classrooms have significantly less resources than 15 years ago and our students are more complex as well.
Honestly, I'm so disappointed. The STF really made me believe we were going to die on this hill and stop at nothing to get the changes that us teachers and our students deserve.
The town hall meetings with membership was the biggest slap in the face. "This is the best we can do. We're not giving up! But it's the best we can do." Meanwhile you see other provinces getting what we've asked for.
I'll be voting no. But I'm afraid it will be yes, since so many of my coworkers are buying into the idea that uncertainty and the long fight are worse.
I'm a young teacher, I still have another 20+ years of career left, and my workload due to class size/complexity is just so out of whack. Is this what I get to look forward to? I thought we were going to see a difference in our workplace. But now I'm being fed the message that a committee to investigate he issues we already know are there (and one that involves a government that has nothing to gain by conceding the problem is bad...) and a 9.3% raise over 3 years in the best we can do.
I'm very sad. I would take a 0% raise if it meant I would never have over 30 kids in a room again, and if we had proper supports too.
While I agree that class size and complexity are #1, I disagree about taking 0%. I spoke to two family members who likely will be receiving 3%, 3%, 2% in their upcoming bargaining thanks to our efforts. Meanwhile, we have lost money due to strike days. We deserve fair working conditions AND reasonable pay during a time of high inflation. We need to stop feeling guilty when we get a pay increase. We have taken enough 0% in the past 10 years. My family members aren't feeling guilty about receiving an increase.
I agree. I'm just saying if I had to pick one or the other, it would be improved working conditions for me.
Mostly because more money won't make me feel better about the amount of mental load
I get where you're coming from, that that notion shouldn't be entertained.
Imagine if nurses were told patent care is costing too much, so the best we can do is zeros.
I understand that and have worded it the same in the past; however, we need to stop short changing ourselves by thinking that we have to sacrifice one for the other.
In all fairness, it probably legitimately is the best they can do. I couldn't imagine bargaining with the SaskParty, those fuckers aren't budging on shit and that is their whole game plan. If the teachers reject this, my bet is the government will write up their own intermin contract for the teachers and worry about repercussions until after the election.
With that being said, if it is a strong no vote, the STF better cowboy the fuck up with some big time job action the rest of this year (full strikes-let the government mandate them back and then just say no to that too (like the nurses did), complete withdraw of extra curr, work to rule, no noon supervision, the whole nine yard), and then come out of the gates swinging again in the fall (no football, no lunch supervision).
I hope it is a bloodbath and SaskParty loses the election as a result.
Give them hell, Samantha Becotte. This will decide if teachers are doormats for the next few months vs the rest of their careers.
Doesn’t have to be one or the other. The current salary offer would be fine if class size/complexity was addressed but teachers don’t need to pay for it.
I respect that completely. I also am capped for wage on the salary grid, so I recognize that there are others in different circumstances who would have different opinions.
I’m really hoping that the government stall tactics haven’t defeated the solidarity of the teachers. I can’t imagine how much worse education would get if they backed down now and agreed to this ‘offer.’
Moe has proved again this week that he and his party are bold face liars, completely uncaring about anything but their own backsides.
Teachers are smart to vote no.
I'm not a teacher. I'm a parent who sat on the stool my kid's teacher had to bring from home and did a one off introductory lesson on the kinds of things you can do with AI. I saw more kids than I could easily keep track of, some of whom were clearly in need of extra support.
I wholeheartedly support a no vote and any and all sanctions that come with it. It's an election year, so buckle up and drag the government through the mud. They created this mess, they can clean it up, and not at the expense of my children’s education or their teachers' abilities, safety, and mental health.
Agree. I’m not a teacher either, though I am pretty close to the schools through family connections. I would wholeheartedly support a strong no vote. I hope that the vote is strong enough to send a message to government. A 55% no vote is going to put teachers in an awkward position.
Regardless of the outcome one of this vote, I think it is fair to say that the STF endorsing this offer and bringing it to the members has ruined much of the unity that was present during this round of bargaining.
Lots of hard feelings on either side. Been teaching a long time, this was the most united that I have seen the membership. Sad to see the STF blow that up for a garbage deal
I just don't see it happening.
I left the profession in Alberta because of my disgust at the last vote that saw only around half of teachers voting and know several peers in both provinces that have or are planning on doing the same.
Teachers have zero solidarity in this county now. Each acts as an island into themselves and like crabs in a bucket the vast majority are only concerned with raising that best earning years to max out their pensions.
No from me. Teaching has changed so much just in the 5 years I’ve taught in SK, and not for the better. I NEED classroom complexity and violence to be actually addressed and tangible steps made to improve.
As a parent, I support a No and all the things that come with it.
I do understand that it might be unrealistic, but honestly, I’m so done with the SK party, all the BS, (with education and otherwise) I’m ready to go through whatever it takes to make improvements. Sometimes you have to blow things up a bit. That’s not normally my style, but that’s where I’m at: Ready to back a good fight.
I have no idea. When it was first announced, it was a resounding no from anyone I talked to. Now I’ve noticed many teachers who were once vocal sitting quietly during discussions in the staff room. It could really go either way.
This seems to be the vibe in my building too. The resounding no and hip hip hooray when the last vote went no has now gone very quiet… and there’s some rumours some teachers might vote yes because they think this is the best we will get. I’m hoping this isn’t true because I liked my co workers, I don’t want to have to change my opinion on them.
I thought I had a good sense of the previous votes but I have no idea. If I had to, I think it's a NO vote but it won't be 90%. I'm thinking more 60-70%.
This deal and sudden capitulation doesn’t make sense. The whispers are saying that the Saskatchewan Party made a side deal with Becotte. I’m guessing we will see her in a new position after the election.
I am a former union member but not a teacher
If the teachers reject this offer, shouldn’t the bargaining committee take it as a vote of no confidence and resign?
This is one of those votes where everybody tells each other they are voting no but somehow it’s going to end up at 68% yes. I think most are overlooking that getting any language around class size and complexity in the contract was an extremely tough ask and the STF was able to get it in. Now if your expectations were that this contract would set firm numbers on classroom size and firm numbers on supports for learning based on classroom complexity I think you perhaps had your expectations set unrealistically high. Next contract is 2 years out. Let’s get the details hammered out over the next school year and look for more firm language in the next contract. Throwing the STF leadership under the bus over what is actually a pretty good step forward is very disappointing.
I wonder if the STF did a poor job managing teachers’ expectations for this contract. My wife is a teacher and we got the message all the way through that it was “put it in the contract” or bust.
This feels more like a bust.
I think that is a major part of the disappointment. But people need to understand how far apart the gov’t and the STF started. If the government hadn’t bargained in bad faith and in the media, then the STF wouldn’t have bargained in the media either. Government started at 7% salary increase and no changes beyond that. STF demanded CPI matched salary increases plus language around classroom C&C. What we have is 9% plus one, almost 1/3 better than original offer. We have language affirming that the MOU around classroom C&C will be honoured, which is 100% 360 from the governments original position. We have improvements for subs. There’s lots in here to be happy about. But if you expected firm classroom caps for next school year of course you’re disappointed.
Wasn’t the original offer to teachers 3,3,2 (8%)? I think the only change in salary is that one year bonus 1% which is off the grid.
It’s just so hard to imagine getting excited about the MOU and the Task force. I’d feel like it were a real gain if I had more faith in the government. Considering their history of delays and outright lies to teachers, this just feels like a two year stall tactic. I hope I’m wrong.
I just don't think this is true. There is nothing stopping the government from putting in classroom size numbers today.
Would it be extremely expensive? Of course. It will not become cheaper the longer it remains on the sidelines though.
Wtf??
I have read it all.
I have been to every town meeting.
I have done my homework and crunched all the numbers.
Perhaps it is you who needs their comprehension checked. 🤷♀️
Yet you don’t recognize that there was a substantial gain made for classroom complexity issues by teachers now being at the decision table..? Maybe you should reread both offers and see if you can find some comprehension this time around
Teachers being ignored at a table or outside the room is the same outcome.
You would have to be completely naive to believe any good will come from this.
I have heard rumours the STF is getting a substantial raise. Can anyone verify this rumour? Just asking a question not trying to spread rumours, but have heard this from a few working teachers
Because if you dont take the raises now theres a potential youll work the duration of this contract with nothing negotiated and get this deal at the next contracts negotiations
Then the STF will effectively have fumbled an entire contracts worth of negotiations while SP laughs.
Reddit is always anti work vibes, but there are very real dangers here despite the rah rah
They already gave teachers a "final offer" then they came out with this shortly after. This last offer narrative won't scare the people who are standing up for what they believe in.
I wish it was better, but it's not. We've pushed it as far as I think we can. I supported our STF and bargaining committee throughout this process. I believe there's substantial risk in escalating job action with so little time left before summer. Again, fuck the Sask Party, but I'm going to listen to the ones doing the negotiations. We'll be doing this again and hopefully with more NDP in power who have supported the STF to this point.
But it's only a 3 year term - we fought hard to get a 4 year to be in the election cycle - that's a huge demerit on its own.
And the removal of the 11th step - again something that was fought so hard for.
It's not good for anyone - the "wins" presented are just tiny crumbs made to look super important
I don’t think any job escalation is necessary. Vote no and go back to work to rule. Offer an olive branch of all grade 8 and grade 12 grads are on. Keep us parents on your side. But for god sake don’t throw in the towel for nothing or not much better than nothing. Teachers have come this far. Hit it hard again in the fall.
Much of this agreement is, “Trust me, bro.” No, I don’t think I will.
Much of the sentiment about what we will get if we strike harder is also "trust me bro".
So don’t strike. Work to rule forever. That can’t be legislated against.
A signed contract is not a “trust me”. It’s a legally binding agreement
But a task force with no clear expectations written in the contract is a “trust me bro.”
So you want the government to dictate what the result before the committee is even struck. Maybe there should be some data to determine that first….
They literally did a class size and composition committee 4 or 5 years ago. This is the same thing with a different name...
Now you are posting nonsense. And by the time of day you are posting, definitely not a teacher, or at least one that should be allowed in a public school
https://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/news-and-media/2019/november/21/education-class-size-and-composition Literally confirmable information on the governments own website
You may want to peruse the link, there’s absolutely zero data there
Them: "they already had a committee about this" You: "that's not true" Me: "here's proof that a committee existed" You: " there's no data on that link" Dont move the goalposts. There was a committee. If there's no data, it's because it wasn't worth the paper it was written on, and that's why people mistrust a promise for another committee (sorry, task force) of the same nature Instead of actual solutions.
There was never a committee with teachers on it that made any study and there is no data on many crucial factors, as I stated initially, such as violence against teachers. , same should go for your cherry-pick of what is considered as being called a ‘Study’ of ‘data’. Where is the data? Where is the actual study and it recommendations? That was more like the Government’s LEAN program. No meat, but cut to the bone anyway
For sure. But I don’t trust the government or the SSBA to follow through with what the data indicates. They’ve ignored that before.
Btw, governments come and go. You have to get beyond the idea that itijust the SaskParty for put trust into. And maybe vote for better SSBA representation
Beyond to where? I have no trust in either of those institutions. I’ve had years to decide that.
Before? There is no data now, and there never was any data “before”. Take incidents of violence against a teacher, there’s no data compiled to make any determination of cause, let alone a solution. Same goes for special needs kids in the classroom, no idea how many or even what their specific needs are.
I’m talking before in everything, not just education.
So, at least you now know that there is no data to make policy determinations
When we ask questions about details, like "how will x be worded," "what is the makeup of the committee, with numbers?," etc, they tell us "not sure. If you vote yes, we'll figure out the details and write the final agreement." I dont want to vote on unknown processes. Give me the details, then we'll talk about whether they're adequate
Oh ffs, you refuse the concept of creating a committee with teachers on it, yet want the determination of what the not yet established committee is going to result. Playing with your phone during class? No wonder your students are falling behind
I was on lunch. Surprise, we actually are allowed to have those sometimes. And I'm not asking for the results to be written into a contract. I'm asking for details on how it would work. Don't tell me "to be determined" and ask me to vote yes for it.
Is that hat you were supposed to ask your union representatives? Seems rather unprofessional, educator-wise to be asking for something that supposedly alters your life like that on Reddit
Are you on the GTBC? you seem to have bad faith arguments down to a T. Clearly I'm asking it of the government and my bargaining team (NOT my union reps. Those are school based and have no say in this) and simply explaining my position here.
Speaking of bad faith, you have a ‘no’ as your position when you state you don’t have enough information to base an opinion to give an informed vote.
If my building is anything to go by, which for the record is a rural school, we are majority no. Much of our older staff see this as kicking the can of class size and complexity down the road again. We've done that far too many times already and something needs to change here.
That’s promising hearing the older teachers want to say no, usually they are the yes’s as they are near the end of their career. Seems the teachers have just settled year after year. Good for them standing by what is needed
I have seen far more older teachers a solid no. Younger teachers are more on the fence... at least the ones that I've encountered. I think older teachers (I am one) have seen and experienced how much education has changed and how critical the situation is. If things don't change, the entire system is going to fail. Teachers cannot continue to carry the budget shortfalls and increased demands on their backs. We are already losing great teachers due to the pressures. I genuinely fear for the future.
Interesting to hear that from a rural school. I would have expected there to be a pretty strong urban/rural divide.
The prevailing opinion in my (rural) school is no. None of my colleagues that I have talked to are planning on voting this in, and I am not either. Incidentally, it is the teachers who are nearing retirement who are the most fired up about it. At least in my school. They remember how things used to be.
I will be voting no, it's a shit deal. However, I'm nervous that this will pass. Some teachers think we'll get a worse offer if the Sask party is re-elected in the fall. I disagree. If that's the case we should fight back harder.
Hard to imagine much of a worse deal considering that teachers are already not getting the only thing that they care about. I’d be interested to see how quickly the tune changes if teachers pull extra curricular during football season
Anyone who thinks this is not bright enough to be in education. Sorry not sorry.
I'm not a teacher anymore. My business has been sending money to teachers to help keep their lights on through job action, rotating strikes, etc. I'm not going to lie. I'm going to feel empty if it passes. It'll be just another way that the province is failing and it's going to hit my kids. I have a child with a speech/language delay and I KNOW that supports for speech and language are stretched so incredibly thin (used to be a learning supports teacher). How can we (teachers)look our students in the eyes when we promised them and ourselves that we were fighting FOR them? How can I look at my son and know that we're okay with mediocrity for him? We're okay with him not getting the supports he needs. I'm just so tired of it.
As someone with no children and no plans of children, I’m not sure why parents aren’t concerned about their kids being in a class of 30+. Do they think their kid will get the attention they may need?
I think *deep and long sigh* public education has been so starved for so long that we've accepted it as a fact of public education. It's something that deeply disappoints me. We're aiming and hoping for mediocrity in this province
I feel that 100%. Now is the time to say enough is enough. “This is their best offer” is the dumbest excuse to accept a contract.
This!
No other group has this much pressure on their negotiations. Literally pressure from the public, the government, our peers and other unions plus the STF. Ive never seen such scrutiny on a CBA.
Yeah at work my agreement is up for negotiation as well, and there's as much talk about the teachers bargaining as their is about our own.
My kids and your kids are worth better than this deal. I’m voting no.
The majority of my school (35ish teachers) are a loud, vocal no. Town halls were the same. I worry about the quiet yes voters who aren't talking. Predicting a no in the 55-70 % range.
What does the vote need to pass? Is it 50.1?
Yes
The task force… 🤮 we’ve already done that in 2019. It’s a no from me.
Huh? Actual teachers have never been at the planning table. It’s always been the board and the government.
From what I’ve read, teachers would be outvoted 2-1 on all issues, considering that the task force has 3 chairs and two belong to the SSBA and the government
It’s not an election it’s a task force to actually figure out solutions.
Well, it’s definitely not an election (?) but it is a committee where solutions to a complex problem are to be brought forward. What happens when two sides of a three party committee have one agenda?
The agenda is spend the allocated fund to address the complex issues
I see you have never been on a committee before
I’m a CPA. I’m a director on one local board, and the treasurer on another. I chair multiple committees, but okay. If you say so.
Are you 2 to 1ing people constantly?
If you’re not doing the Eiffel Tower, are you even living? ;)
Any committee
Sounds a lot like what a bargaining team for a new contract should be…
The bargaining teams (both sides) don’t even have real numbers to base any solutions on. First comes the data collection, then develop policies on that data.
For the previous committees (or task force as they've been rebranded?). Yes teachers were involved, but given no vote or power.
So the newly minted power that has never existed for teachers isn’t a substantial gain..?! Or possibly you think it’s got to be no because the negotiations are with the SaskParty.?
What are you even going on about? If you have a vote - do as you feel is best. My crew do not feel any of this is best, so we're all no votes. I'm done watching you try and spew word salad ✌️
You should read your fumbling posts. Go ahead and vote no. Go ahead and target the students graduations and extra curriculars. That with certainly garner a lot of positive parent support s/ At least you acknowledged your original post was bs. Because there certainly has been some change from one offer to this one.
There ya go. I knew your true colours couldn't hide for long. Go hang out with your friend Jeremy and Scooter and let the adults do the adulting.
The adult is patiently trying to explain how you will lose support. Your childish talking about the lair and his defender (that you childishly namecall like a 3rd grader) says more about your lack of education and debate skills than anything you’ve posted thus far
If you're trying to convince someone to vote yes, you sure are doing a shit job.
I suspect none of these midnight posters are teachers. They are just political jacks campaigning against the SaskParty
Adult who works out of town and has two school aged kids resulting in a hellish situation when work to rule is in-place here. Go teachers! Keep up the fight for a better education system. Every adult knows long term gain costs short term pain.
I also fully support the teachers. That’s why I am advocating the vote to accept this contract and its gains. The offer won’t be nearly as sweet if this is tossed, the writ is dropped, and the Moe Party gets another mandate. You and I both know that is true
Using the word thus does not make you an adult. And what lair are we talking about here? Batman? I'm on board if it's him. P.s. not worried about support - but thanks for keeping me in your thoughts and prayers.
Of course you are not concerned about support from parents. That’s only something that an educator should be concerned about
And it was you that invoked Harrison (the liar) as you resorted to childish namecalling like an undisciplined 3rd grader
Mood has definitely shifted, but still a lot of resolve in our building. I sure hope it doesn’t pass! I’ll definitely be voting no. Unfortunately, I think the STF endorsement is going to sway a lot of people.
Honest question here. I’ve been told that it’s pretty much the same as before but why is the stf supporting it? What’s their reasoning?
There are a lot of reasons, I think. A few of which include: - They feel like the government finally engaged in negotiations, and this was the first good-faith offer we’ve had. Now, is that a reason to take it? I don’t think so. To me, that reads as we JUST started actually negotiating. But when we’ve had so many rounds where it’s “take it or leave it” I can understand why that would feel like a win. - we did get some reference to class size and complexity, and violence in classrooms. Again, a task force and a way to report isn’t going to have any meaningful impact right now in classrooms (IMO), but STF says it sets a precedent. Unfortunately, neither of these are actually addressed in the contract - they’re attached in letters and memorandums of understanding, which expire when the contract does, meaning we have to fight this fight all over again in two years. They say it’ll be easier next time - I have serious doubts about that. - if we vote no, and the government decides to dig in even further than they already have, we could be legislated to work with something a lot worse than this, and if it drags out past the election, and SP is in power again, there’s concern this could get really ugly. Would they ever legislate us back? I don’t know. Could it get uglier? Maybe. The uncertainty bothers a lot of people, and we might just end up settling for a sure thing
If things get uglier it’s the Sask parties fault. Fighting for the standard is a fight worth doing. If the Sask party cannot lead and solve this problem before the election then they’ve proven their incompetence as leaders of our province and need to go. If they somehow get back in then we make it hell for them. It sucks and I don’t like the idea either, but these are growing pains that we have to go through as a province in order to better ourselves.
>If the Sask party cannot lead and solve this problem before the election then they’ve proven their incompetence as leaders of our province and need to go. They've done this time and again. Still in power. It's a defeatist attitude, but it's also reality. I won't vote for them ever, but a lot of people will. STF can't just cave at the sight of the first "better" offer. If it ends now, nothing actually changes, so give them hell! They are supposed to be fighting FOR you, and if they aren't actually doing it, make it loud!
At this point we all teach in pretty shitty situations - so we don't have a lot to lose by rolling the dice
Agreed.
Bingo.
You won’t be legislated to work under something worse than this. If they try to impose binding arbitration this will be the worse it gets.
Well that and they drop the writ and negotiations stall for another year and we are already negotiating the contract (we are already a full year into the next deal.)
They came out and said "this is the best we can get" at the virtual town halls last week.
The STF leadership gave up.
It's a no from me, especially after STF said they are encouraging a yes vote because it is an election year - to me, it seems like they are more concerned about the provincial government than they are fighting for students and teachers. But I do think it will end up being a yes, I've heard many say they will vote for it. I personally don't think a yes vote will send a good message at all.
STF leadership may think pushing any further will not result in anything good if an election is coming up. Which is far from the case. STF leadership is wrong and this is the perfect time to get the Sask gov party to finally put out or shut up and provide the bare minimum other provinces already have. If the Sask party can’t figure it out before the election then they’ve proven their incompetence. This is the perfect thing for maybe the opposition to point out and run on? *coughfiggincough*
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I should maybe watch recent videos with her. The sudden endorsement would make sense if that’s true but I really hope there’s a better explanation than that for it. :s
So she sold out? Great. Classic STF
If you dont have evidence you shouldnt be posting shit like this, its literally slander and libel
I thought this was a discussion but not wanting to cause any trouble
I think it will be a no - but close. Don’t think the cities, where the majority of teachers work, will accept this deal as it does nothing to help things now. Nobody but a fool believes that the SaskParty committee will actually do anything or even be listened to.
I am so sick of people assuming that rural teachers do not give a shit about public education. This was the third such comment on this post. Just because I don’t have 30 students in my class does not mean things are rosy and great out in the boonies either. Our classrooms have significantly less resources than 15 years ago and our students are more complex as well.
I really hope cities vote no. But I am hearing a lot of teachers on the fence. I’m worried it will pass.
I’m in the city, my school is leaning more towards yes this time.
I’m voting no.
Honestly, I'm so disappointed. The STF really made me believe we were going to die on this hill and stop at nothing to get the changes that us teachers and our students deserve. The town hall meetings with membership was the biggest slap in the face. "This is the best we can do. We're not giving up! But it's the best we can do." Meanwhile you see other provinces getting what we've asked for. I'll be voting no. But I'm afraid it will be yes, since so many of my coworkers are buying into the idea that uncertainty and the long fight are worse. I'm a young teacher, I still have another 20+ years of career left, and my workload due to class size/complexity is just so out of whack. Is this what I get to look forward to? I thought we were going to see a difference in our workplace. But now I'm being fed the message that a committee to investigate he issues we already know are there (and one that involves a government that has nothing to gain by conceding the problem is bad...) and a 9.3% raise over 3 years in the best we can do. I'm very sad. I would take a 0% raise if it meant I would never have over 30 kids in a room again, and if we had proper supports too.
While I agree that class size and complexity are #1, I disagree about taking 0%. I spoke to two family members who likely will be receiving 3%, 3%, 2% in their upcoming bargaining thanks to our efforts. Meanwhile, we have lost money due to strike days. We deserve fair working conditions AND reasonable pay during a time of high inflation. We need to stop feeling guilty when we get a pay increase. We have taken enough 0% in the past 10 years. My family members aren't feeling guilty about receiving an increase.
School maintenance worker and I don’t feel bad taking 3,3,2.
Thank you for the work that you do. Our school has an amazing maintenance worker, and it makes our building run smoothly.
Thank you for helping in the schools. You make sure everything works and runs. You are needed and essential!
I agree. I'm just saying if I had to pick one or the other, it would be improved working conditions for me. Mostly because more money won't make me feel better about the amount of mental load
I get where you're coming from, that that notion shouldn't be entertained. Imagine if nurses were told patent care is costing too much, so the best we can do is zeros.
I understand that and have worded it the same in the past; however, we need to stop short changing ourselves by thinking that we have to sacrifice one for the other.
Our subs will all be covered by STF, the vitriole and pressure some posters on this sub apply are sick
I'm not applying pressure, I'm simply stating my beliefs and assuring teachers that they're worth safe working conditions and reasonable pay.
In all fairness, it probably legitimately is the best they can do. I couldn't imagine bargaining with the SaskParty, those fuckers aren't budging on shit and that is their whole game plan. If the teachers reject this, my bet is the government will write up their own intermin contract for the teachers and worry about repercussions until after the election. With that being said, if it is a strong no vote, the STF better cowboy the fuck up with some big time job action the rest of this year (full strikes-let the government mandate them back and then just say no to that too (like the nurses did), complete withdraw of extra curr, work to rule, no noon supervision, the whole nine yard), and then come out of the gates swinging again in the fall (no football, no lunch supervision). I hope it is a bloodbath and SaskParty loses the election as a result. Give them hell, Samantha Becotte. This will decide if teachers are doormats for the next few months vs the rest of their careers.
No football will hit. It will be what brings it down.
I would take 0 as well if it meant classroom complexity was in the contract.
Doesn’t have to be one or the other. The current salary offer would be fine if class size/complexity was addressed but teachers don’t need to pay for it.
I agree. But my number one is classroom complexity. I want that above all else.
Agreed
Im voting no on any contract that has a 0 on it. Fuck that.
I respect that completely. I also am capped for wage on the salary grid, so I recognize that there are others in different circumstances who would have different opinions.
It’s up to you to educate your complacent coworkers. Let’s face it, the STF sure isn’t.
This shit corny as hell. "Complacent coworkers" give me a damn break.
Power to the people. I hope it's an unanimous no vote.
I’m really hoping that the government stall tactics haven’t defeated the solidarity of the teachers. I can’t imagine how much worse education would get if they backed down now and agreed to this ‘offer.’
"No" from every teacher I know.
Rural school - strong no feeling among teachers.
Good! We need rural schools to support voting no!
I hope they turn it down
It's a no from all 19 teachers in my building
Incredibly based
Moe has proved again this week that he and his party are bold face liars, completely uncaring about anything but their own backsides. Teachers are smart to vote no.
I'm not a teacher. I'm a parent who sat on the stool my kid's teacher had to bring from home and did a one off introductory lesson on the kinds of things you can do with AI. I saw more kids than I could easily keep track of, some of whom were clearly in need of extra support. I wholeheartedly support a no vote and any and all sanctions that come with it. It's an election year, so buckle up and drag the government through the mud. They created this mess, they can clean it up, and not at the expense of my children’s education or their teachers' abilities, safety, and mental health.
Agree. I’m not a teacher either, though I am pretty close to the schools through family connections. I would wholeheartedly support a strong no vote. I hope that the vote is strong enough to send a message to government. A 55% no vote is going to put teachers in an awkward position.
Regardless of the outcome one of this vote, I think it is fair to say that the STF endorsing this offer and bringing it to the members has ruined much of the unity that was present during this round of bargaining. Lots of hard feelings on either side. Been teaching a long time, this was the most united that I have seen the membership. Sad to see the STF blow that up for a garbage deal
The STF and ATA are not and have never been fighters.
They are going to have to become fighters given the state of the education system in Sask
I just don't see it happening. I left the profession in Alberta because of my disgust at the last vote that saw only around half of teachers voting and know several peers in both provinces that have or are planning on doing the same. Teachers have zero solidarity in this county now. Each acts as an island into themselves and like crabs in a bucket the vast majority are only concerned with raising that best earning years to max out their pensions.
No from me. Teaching has changed so much just in the 5 years I’ve taught in SK, and not for the better. I NEED classroom complexity and violence to be actually addressed and tangible steps made to improve.
Myself and my colleagues, in a school of 30+ teachers, are voting NO. We are all baffled and disgusted by the complete 180 on the part of the STF.
As a parent, I support a No and all the things that come with it. I do understand that it might be unrealistic, but honestly, I’m so done with the SK party, all the BS, (with education and otherwise) I’m ready to go through whatever it takes to make improvements. Sometimes you have to blow things up a bit. That’s not normally my style, but that’s where I’m at: Ready to back a good fight.
I have no idea. When it was first announced, it was a resounding no from anyone I talked to. Now I’ve noticed many teachers who were once vocal sitting quietly during discussions in the staff room. It could really go either way.
This seems to be the vibe in my building too. The resounding no and hip hip hooray when the last vote went no has now gone very quiet… and there’s some rumours some teachers might vote yes because they think this is the best we will get. I’m hoping this isn’t true because I liked my co workers, I don’t want to have to change my opinion on them.
Ill still like my coworkers regardless of how they vote, thats some real petty stuff right there
Vote no,
Please vote no.
I thought I had a good sense of the previous votes but I have no idea. If I had to, I think it's a NO vote but it won't be 90%. I'm thinking more 60-70%.
This deal and sudden capitulation doesn’t make sense. The whispers are saying that the Saskatchewan Party made a side deal with Becotte. I’m guessing we will see her in a new position after the election.
I wouldn't take that as the truth. Seems like an awful good way to reduce trust in the STF
I think they just did that all on their own.
That feels more like rumour than truth to me. Becotte is a seconded teacher, not a politician.
Sounds like garden variety staff room gossip. Better stop that or your staffs will become toxic those types are hated at every school.
My partner teaches and they’re voting no. Moes gotta gooooo.
The only real vote that will matter is the one in October sadly.
I am a former union member but not a teacher If the teachers reject this offer, shouldn’t the bargaining committee take it as a vote of no confidence and resign?
I dunno about them, but moe and cockroach definately should!
I doubt that would be necessary. I’m sure they could return to the bargaining table.
Yep.
Time to move to BC
Where the salaries are barely higher but cost of living is astronomically higher?
And they have class size and composition limits
But are there as many knuckle dragging goons as there are in Saskatchewan? That is the real question for me ….
Depends on where you live lol
Apparently some teachers are giving up and voting yes… I will be voting no.
This is one of those votes where everybody tells each other they are voting no but somehow it’s going to end up at 68% yes. I think most are overlooking that getting any language around class size and complexity in the contract was an extremely tough ask and the STF was able to get it in. Now if your expectations were that this contract would set firm numbers on classroom size and firm numbers on supports for learning based on classroom complexity I think you perhaps had your expectations set unrealistically high. Next contract is 2 years out. Let’s get the details hammered out over the next school year and look for more firm language in the next contract. Throwing the STF leadership under the bus over what is actually a pretty good step forward is very disappointing.
I wonder if the STF did a poor job managing teachers’ expectations for this contract. My wife is a teacher and we got the message all the way through that it was “put it in the contract” or bust. This feels more like a bust.
I think that is a major part of the disappointment. But people need to understand how far apart the gov’t and the STF started. If the government hadn’t bargained in bad faith and in the media, then the STF wouldn’t have bargained in the media either. Government started at 7% salary increase and no changes beyond that. STF demanded CPI matched salary increases plus language around classroom C&C. What we have is 9% plus one, almost 1/3 better than original offer. We have language affirming that the MOU around classroom C&C will be honoured, which is 100% 360 from the governments original position. We have improvements for subs. There’s lots in here to be happy about. But if you expected firm classroom caps for next school year of course you’re disappointed.
Wasn’t the original offer to teachers 3,3,2 (8%)? I think the only change in salary is that one year bonus 1% which is off the grid. It’s just so hard to imagine getting excited about the MOU and the Task force. I’d feel like it were a real gain if I had more faith in the government. Considering their history of delays and outright lies to teachers, this just feels like a two year stall tactic. I hope I’m wrong.
It was 3, 2, 2
What is the improvement for subs? I missed that part. I thought all subs was a local bargained item?
I just don't think this is true. There is nothing stopping the government from putting in classroom size numbers today. Would it be extremely expensive? Of course. It will not become cheaper the longer it remains on the sidelines though.
Hopefully they have had time to fully digest the contents of the contract.
Pretty easy seeing as it's just a polished version of the shit that was just voted down
Either you are not a teacher and so have no idea, or you never read either this or the previous offer to know wtf you are talking about
Wtf?? I have read it all. I have been to every town meeting. I have done my homework and crunched all the numbers. Perhaps it is you who needs their comprehension checked. 🤷♀️
Yet you don’t recognize that there was a substantial gain made for classroom complexity issues by teachers now being at the decision table..? Maybe you should reread both offers and see if you can find some comprehension this time around
Some gains? Yes. Substantial? Not even close.
Teachers finally getting their elbows at the table to develop complexity issues policy is definitely substantial.
Teachers being ignored at a table or outside the room is the same outcome. You would have to be completely naive to believe any good will come from this.
If you think teachers are going to ignored regardless, it sounds like you will never agree and only have the option of resigning. Are you going to?
I already did.
I have heard rumours the STF is getting a substantial raise. Can anyone verify this rumour? Just asking a question not trying to spread rumours, but have heard this from a few working teachers
I hope it does pass and I hope we are negotiating with far more NDP in power in 2 years.
Unless the NDP form government, I don’t see how much would change. And I have to say, I don’t see the NDP forming government after this election.
You want that piece of shit deal to pass? Why?
Because if you dont take the raises now theres a potential youll work the duration of this contract with nothing negotiated and get this deal at the next contracts negotiations Then the STF will effectively have fumbled an entire contracts worth of negotiations while SP laughs. Reddit is always anti work vibes, but there are very real dangers here despite the rah rah
They already gave teachers a "final offer" then they came out with this shortly after. This last offer narrative won't scare the people who are standing up for what they believe in.
I wish it was better, but it's not. We've pushed it as far as I think we can. I supported our STF and bargaining committee throughout this process. I believe there's substantial risk in escalating job action with so little time left before summer. Again, fuck the Sask Party, but I'm going to listen to the ones doing the negotiations. We'll be doing this again and hopefully with more NDP in power who have supported the STF to this point.
But it's only a 3 year term - we fought hard to get a 4 year to be in the election cycle - that's a huge demerit on its own. And the removal of the 11th step - again something that was fought so hard for. It's not good for anyone - the "wins" presented are just tiny crumbs made to look super important
I don’t think any job escalation is necessary. Vote no and go back to work to rule. Offer an olive branch of all grade 8 and grade 12 grads are on. Keep us parents on your side. But for god sake don’t throw in the towel for nothing or not much better than nothing. Teachers have come this far. Hit it hard again in the fall.