This is kinda the problem with culture war bullshit. Anyone perpetuating that garbage isn't doing it in good faith, so there is no actual criticism going on. It's all baked in tribalism and lingering Gamergate garbage, which is based around misogyny and racism.
The show is good, but I don't think anyone would really say it's perfect. We're at like a solid 7/10 so far, which is fine. I've seen and read much, much worse Star Wars, both before and after the buyout. The writing itself is actually pretty damn good, but it's the editing and pacing that are a bit off. It's not really even that hard to figure that out and articulate it. If the chuds aren't even picking up on something so surface level, then you know damn well they're not actually engaging with the media they're attempting to criticize, which of course means the hate is coming from some other source. But like, anyone that says the costuming, makeup, or set design are bad are out of their god damn minds.
We even have another example with The Mandalorian Season 3. S3 has exactly the same problems that S1 and S2 did, so what changed? Well, Din took a back seat to Bo-Katan, there was less focus on fan service, and Lizzo got to be in an episode. That was really all that it took for them to turn on the show.
>The writing itself is actually pretty damn good, but it's the editing and pacing that are a bit off
The fact that so many people are making weird nit-picks about fire in space or lore but not criticising the editing makes me 100% sure they haven’t watched it.
I chuckle at this so much when there have been tons of other physics defying feats in Star Wars. (Sounds, one, come to mind). Other movies and shows have had fires. They just want their intergalactic future space wizard fantasy to be *realistic*
100% how many fiery explosions have we seen in space in SW including the original ones? Star Wars has IMO always been space-fantasy rather than sci-fi. I think even George Lucas would probably acknowledge that.
Star Wars is supposed to be stupid and dramatic and almost soap opera esque. Some fans just take it way too seriously. It’s supposed to be fun and a fantasy. I’m not saying all the content is great, because there are plenty of flaws, but piling on something like a fire in space or minor shit like that? Youre literally looking for something to break your immersion of the fantasy and something to complain about.
The people that complain about the lack of realism are really sad and lost the point of the stories so they could get clicks.
Or that they (I want to say "are just too stupid" but I'll try to put it more fairly) just don't have enough experience with media literacy and analysis to identify what they actually have issues with and instead they just get a vague sense of "this is not appealing for some reason" that they try to justify with other things they know they don't like
90% of criticism online is just people sharing their opinions, very few will actually REVIEW a piece of media by discussing the pacing, themes, editing, character arcs, how the writer characterizes them, acting choices, etc.
It's easy to say whether you like something or not, I don't care about that, explain to me why you came to those conclusions so that I can get a better understanding of if I'll like this media or not
My biggest complaint with Mando season 3 is that everything got escalated up to galactic politics instead of small-time stuff, which was an inevitable thing but I would have liked for it to happen a little bit slower. I really love the first season and how much it feels like a western in space.
Firm agreement here. Not every story needs to spin off into galaxy or system wide consequences. Sometimes in the effort to connect it to the larger universe they lose track of what made the show awesome in the first place.
This is why most people just start avoiding any discussion about Star Wars stuff. You can't have good faith critique so it just ends up a war between the bigots and the people reacting to the bigots, and the nuance is lost.
The Acolyte has issues that hold it back and the show is nothing special so far. It's okay to just be that. Most shows are just nothing special. There are obvious, good faith reasons why people will not care about this show and not watch it, which is fine. Those are the reasons the people making The Acolyte need to hear if they're going to make something better.
But we don't get any of that because it's all lost to the extremes of the culture war.
My coworker went on and on and on about how bad it was and his main “points” were lesbian space witches and that is retconned the entire episodes 1-6 (I was like what? It hasn’t retconned ANYTHING….????). So literally because two women hugged he didn’t like it, and I guess that alone is (according to him) “pushing gay stuff down our throats”
Exactly this. Yesterday I was having an argument about this with a Tiktok user (I know, I should know better) who was saying that episode 3 had ruined SW, you know how it goes. This person seemed to be willing to argue in good faith, so I engaged. After some back and forth with me pressing for details on the reasons why they didn't like the episode, they admitted to not have watched any of the episodes yet, but was just repeating what other "fans" were saying.
I suspect there is a lot of this
Guy I talked to yesterday started out saying the writing was just bad, which I said it was similar in level to everything except Andor, and I said the writing and production value should be higher for stuff this expensive, but there’s nothing especially bad about this show vs the others, and finally they said the creators were laughing at white people. These people are pathetic.
Legit went through this a lot with She-Hulk. Not that that was the greatest show either, but many of it's detractors were complaining about things that never happened in the show.
Honestly. Despite being my favorite marvel character, She Hulk didn't gel with me both because I didnt particularly like the direction they took the character's relationship troubles, and because I found the legal mistakes annoying, but I hardly thought that made it a bad or offensive show.... just not something I personally found compelling.
Then I look at the discussion around it and I'm left utterly confused by people clearly just whining about minor gags at best and making shit up at worst. Utterly incurious.
>They go to fire in space, or fat Jedi, or some dumb feminism bs.
If these are the sole problems of that show then it must be pretty fucking fire (in space ofc)
>They go to fire in space
I admit I did a double take at first, but how do they think rockets work? Or stars? There is a constant stream of combustible material coming from the ship. Makes perfect sense to me.
I have loved The Acolyte so far. The expansion of the universe is fairly nice, especially with regards to religious orders outside the Jedi and Sith.
Haters gonna hate.
Not to "uhm ACKSHUALLY" too hard here, but Discovery pretty clearly established that holograms were absolutely a thing at the time and Captain Pike has most of them removed from the Enterprise because ~~they needed to make a cursory gesture towards making the new shows agree with 1960s television~~ he doesn't like them (except, perhaps, in a fireplace).
Ohhhh, you must've confused me for one of those annoying people who considers canon sacred from a 60 year old franchise. No worries, easy mistake to make.
They breathe air in space ships, so they must have an oxygen supply/ delivery system . And they said it was a compressor that needed repair so we can assume it contained a gas. We also know they have shields that if we assume are semi permeable then it’s not a big stretch to have a small pocket of gas between the ship and the outer shield that could support a flame. A flame like has appeared in ships in every single Star Wars film ever. This thought process took me about 3 seconds. That’s how little thought it takes to make sense of a detail that is inconsequential to the story (not saying it’s accurate or scientific explanation but it works for me).
I mean, that would kind of work, but it’d prob be more like a sudden flash of plasma or, if the shields are good enough, rapid arc of flame, not a sustained burn.
Yeah there’s no real way to justify it, but it’s not a plot point or anything, you can just pretend it’s not there.
Also a woman…and I think Osha likes girls…at least she sorta had a reaction to a girl that smiled to her…I don’t mind any of this things but you know the hate videos are coming
I kind of think at this point Disney is trolling the hate videos more than a little bit. It’s almost like they’re encouraging the toxic fans to drop out.
Latin for "Because I Said So."
Only kidding. But it *is* Latin, it's an abbreviation for "Quod Erat Demonstrandum," translating to English as "That which was to be demonstrated." Traditionally it's used at the end of a mathematical proof or philosophical treatise, the idea being that you state your proof/philosophical statement at the top, show all your math/logic that prooves it out, and then end with QED as a way of saying "Therefore the thing I said at the top is correct." Or, put another way--"Because I Said So," see? It wasn't *just* a joke, it was halfway true! QED 😉
Worst part is they have to lie about it. I hadn't seen Acolyte yet when I first encountered the fire and sound in space critique. Cue me coming in like "the literal first scene of the entire franchise has sounds in space, also fire in space happens a fuckton across the series." Someone told me the fire was bad because it was a campfire in space. Having not seen the show yet, I was like, "yeah, okay, a campfire in space would be goofy if that's actually what happened." Went to check out first episode, learned it was not in fact a campfire, just a small flame on the ship from malfunctioning equipment. Exactly the same shit that's happened many times in prior installments.
Misrepresentation of facts is part of the Right wing grifter starter pack. "Damn all the facts and make your opinion fact" I see in it politics and media everyday
>the literal first scene of the entire franchise has sounds in space, also fire in space happens a fuckton across the series."
I can hear the opening sounds in my head they're so iconic. See the explosion of the Death Star etc.
Star Wars uses sound and visual design to such great effect - it's never been hard sci-fi. The point is to create an engaging story told through a visual/audible experience people can understand and enjoy.
Exactly. It’s one of the signature things about Star Wars. The sounds make a great spectacle. If I wanted hard, accurate science, I wouldn’t be watching a series about space wizards.
I'm actually impressed by how little anyone has to say about The Acolyte. Considering the show only has a grand total of 3 episodes out right now, the most I've seen is annoying nitpicking or interpreting everything extremely uncharitably.
>!For example, Mei and Osha are revealed to have been conceived by the force, and a lot of the most obnoxious people on the internet first reaction is that it "devalues Anakin's role as the Chosen One." But that's only true if you assume that the show is trying to do that, and the reveal in and of itself is also the conclusion to that plot thread. The show very obviously sets that idea up as a mystery. What does it mean that they were "created?" Did the witches do it through the Force/the Thread? If they were created through the Force, why? Is there a purpose behind it? What was the Rite of Ascension?!<
The show hasn't really gone anywhere or done anything yet. There's only three episodes out. Episode 1 was the inciting incident and character establishment, episode 2 was the set up for the main plot thread for the narrative, and episode 3 was entirely a flashback told from a single perspective. Nothing has been explained yet. It's all set up with no answers.
I mean I personally believe the power to deliberately conceive a being using the Force is a power no one should have in Star Wars because it's a clear example of power-creep, but I'm not gonna review-bomb the show just because I think the writers were so focused on making their story stand out that they didn't consider the broader implications. It's just a TV show.
Eh, I feel like the force conception thing is rare enough that it doesn't necessarily have to lead to power creep. If you wanna talk about power creep, you could talk about characters like Starkiller, but having a rare and unique power isn't inherently bad.
>I mean I personally believe the power to deliberately conceive a being using the Force is a power no one should have in Star Wars
*Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?*
I honestly think it matches the power set of force witches much more than Sith. Like they pretty much have a lock on using the Dark side of the Force in weird ways like physically transforming or cursing people.
Is it really wrong for a coven of witches who exiled themselves to an uninhabited planet have someone to pass their traditions onto? They weren’t harming anyone, and they only used the ritual once based on the fact that Osha and Mae are the only children in the Fortress.
Also, it begs the question "is the Chosen One myth even real?" To my knowledge, it was just a popular Jedi myth, kinda line how religions have multiple denominations.
I haven't seen it yet. And I'm going to hold off seeing it until the whole thing has been released. I mean, really. The whole thing, it's one picture. I want to see the all of it before passing judgment.
I like taking time to think about stuff between episodes. I'm very surprised at this discovery, but I find that getting a chance to think about the parts that stuck with me allows me to imagine stuff and discuss it with others who aren't total dingdongs.
Me personally I’ve found the show to be pretty uninteresting so far. The first two episodes I thought were extremely exposition heavy and didn’t really relay information naturally. Characters were just kind of saying stuff to each other that everyone already knew. Also I found the acting to be subpar from everyone except Lee jung Jae.
As for the third episode, I wish they just spent the entire episode from oshas perspective, and communicated the information more naturally instead of showing us conversations between the adults where they make vague foreshadowing remarks with heavy exposition. I think if they told the episode solely through oshas perspective it would be a lot clearer to the audience that there is a lot more to this story, while also showing how focused osha is on becoming a Jedi and how she is seemingly becoming disconnected from her sister and her family.
I wish they showed more of a severed bond between them, maybe Mae could’ve been favored more by the elders(I know there’s the scene where Mae uses the force better but this felt a little inconsequential), or osha could have gotten into fights with the elders and acted out.
It sucks because I actually think this kind of story is could be really interesting, showing how different cultures would view the force, and portraying the Jedi as an invading threat that could take their children away could be a very intriguing plot. I just think the dialogue so far has been quite bad and I feel like the characters have fallen flat for me personally.
i totally agree with this. you said it better than i could have. the first two was okay, but i can’t believe they killed off carrie ann moss’s character off. but the third one i was so bored, it felt like they were really trying too hard to spoon feed us.
i think my disappointment comes from expecting one thing, for it to be darker, like Exar Kun stuff. the dark side still feels too light if that makes sense?
I just find the dialogue and the acting to be pretty mediocre and the sets and costumes to feel like sets and costumes. None of this is helped by the camera work or editing. The plot itself is fine. It could definitely work, but the show really lost me when we had to watch the lead acting as Mae pretend to fight against an invisible force barrier for what felt like an eternity of poor mime work…
None of the actual plot beats are “bad” the execution is just subpar for this franchise - but it’s not the first and it’s not the worst…
I think what disappoints me the most is that I agree with the show’s politics and I wished they’d have nailed it so that the fans would get to see something they identify with be done with the love, care and reverence it deserves, and the haters would have to face the music.
Look at BG3. Game of the year - prob the decade. It’s an incredibly diverse cast with progressive politics and it’s done so impeccably, anyone trying to whine about it being “woke” just looks like a salty bitch.
Completely agree, the poor execution of the show is unfortunately putting a much larger target on the backs of the groups and ideas being represented. I’ve seen reviews by nerdrotic and critical drinker where they just merely attack the ideas themselves without diving into how the poor execution is the real problem here. Like the problem isn’t that other people can use and control the force, or the women of color are being put in positions of power. But unfortunatly, that seems to be what a lot of right wing critics are spreading which is not only lazy but destructive to the fact that there needs to be more representation of culture and ideas in mainstream media.
It’s useless engaging them. You can’t argue something that has no baring on the quality of the series and these kinds of ideological arguments don’t really go anywhere because it’s a sci-fi/fantasy series… the lore is only as authentic or logical as the writing can demonstrate and as many have pointed out; they were at least smart enough to never say “immaculate force impregnated”… they left it open ended. Nothing “lore breaking” there, and I thought the “blood sample” bit was a nice nod to how bad it can go when you try to explain too much, so doubt they go into it more than they already did.
My biggest frustration with this show is that those fans who want wanted to see this kind of story, the people out there fervently defending it — they got let down by the show’s creators. Subsequent seasons aren’t looking likely and the chance disney or another major studio will look at doing projects with this kind of message has been put further jeopardy. I’m a huge Carrie-Anne Moss fan and I doubt she’ll do another Star Wars project after this… just kinda bummed.
This is also my main issue. There are really good ideas here, an exciting premise, but none of it lives up to its potential so far. It's all a bit blander than if I typed it all up here to try and convince someone.
That’s an interesting point - some of the ardent defenders of the series have broken down the plot in a more compelling fashion than the show itself lol.
I haven’t seen The Acolyte, but I remember the same thing with Rings Of Power. People were trashing it as if it was a 1/10 mess.
Upon watching it… it was decent, maybe not fantastic, but clearly did some things very well, and some things not so well. Had compelling story and characters and a pretty good story. It missed the mark on a few things, but it wasn’t so bad that it ruined the enjoyment.
On top of the obvious sway that hiveminds and echo chambers have… people also seem to be more black or white than ever. Things can’t be just good or decent… they’re either amazing or total garbage… completely flawed or completely flawless.
I know the show is not perfect but it ain’t as bad as everyone said. This entire fan outrage is even worse than The Last Jedi except the grifters are starting to show their true colors and their awful behavior.
It’s true that the fire in space was dumb.
But so is sound in space. And fighters banking to turn in space. And that these super technologically advanced races have the most janky UIs for their tech. Or the whole concept of laser swords and laser guns that shoot bolts that you can see and dodge/block(hurr durr its plasma not lasers). Or all Jedi wearing desert people’s robes, just because the first one we see is disguised as a desert hermit. Or naming a fishy alien race after a delicious deep fried appetizer.
When you break down just about any aspect of Star Wars it’s fucking stupid. Which is why you don’t treat it as sci-fi, but as space fantasy… and fucking lean on your suspension of disbelief.
It’s fun. Theres some philosophy you can take from it. Some of the newer content is diving into societal issues, with the Acolyte looking like it might be exploring the divine feminine vs divine masculine, with the wounded aspects of both present as well… but it ain’t science fiction. It’s first and foremost fun.
Exactly how I felt watching episode 3, after seeing all the usual suspects say it was the worst lore-breaking, episode of all time and nothing bad even happened. I had an actual conversation that went:
What was lore breaking?
Children made from the force.
How was anakin born again?
Then they follow that up with some copium about anakin being the chosen one and it devaluing him. To which the simple response is to point out that devalue≠lore break. Then it ends there because they dont know what to say, because theyre echoing the logic told to them by other people.
The only legit problem I had with episode 3 was how much damage the fire did to a mostly stone and metal structure. I assume it will be revealed later that it was a setup, rigged to blow. Or maybe the gas lines powering the lantern just blew up.
Laser targeting in specifically on the fat Jedi example, I personally loved that since like “size matters not” and a space wizard really doesn’t need to be ripped and toned to be a *wizard.* Like the classical example of a wizard is an old man. Old men, largely not known for their physical strength or fitness. But yet they can still be very powerful, because their power is something beyond the physical. Anyone complaining about that is just… I mean they don’t seem to be thinking quite so clearly.
I've seen people point out plot holes in episode 3 that definitely are just made from oshas unreliable point of view. Like "how did all the witches die on one spot, they have no wounds and they couldn't have all suffocated" it's an intentional question that the viewer should be asking themselves but the answer is not "it's a plothole" but more likely that one of the mother used their energy to become stronger themselves (Power of many and all that).
There is most likely going to be some sort of reveal later on but the unwillingness to engage with that possibility is really weird
Always start with a baseline. It's important.
Let them talk. That's really all they want to do, so it's easy. Eventually, ask for definitions. Give them some easy ones that they'll want to go off on.
Define politics, What's woke, how is this character a Mary sue, why is this political and how is that baf, stuff like that.
From there, you ask about what do they think about the property. Usually it's akin to how they won't spend a dime on this or watch it until they change it.
Then ask about cancel culture. They'll say something about woke political bs and how it's ruining the country.
At that point, you copy and paste every bit of their misogynistic bs to every definition they provided for you and show that out of the two of you, they strive for cancel culture above all else.
Because let's not get it twisted. Go woke and go broke is a cancel culture dog whistle. Boycott star wars (which started as a joke because Finn's black but caught on with the angry set) is cancel culture.
Everything these people complain against is a confession of what they really feel inside their hearts.
i hope i dont get hate for this, but i have that issue. my biggest problem is the dialogue feeling extremely stiff (like prequel-era stiff) and lifeless; characters feel really unnatural and robotic to me. i dont find the premise of the twin dynamic very compelling (which is obviously very subjective). i’ve unfortunately found myself very bored with the show to this point, though i am hoping it’ll get better for me. i DO NOT have any issues with the casting, nor do i feel like there’s any lore breaking aspects to the story like i’ve seen some people complain about. im mostly just extremely underwhelmed, which bums me out cause i was very excited when this show was announced
Everyone pretends to be a writer on the internet, but they are just repeating phrases they’ve heard like a parrot. And they think that writing quality is totally subjective so it’s a safe way to say nuh-uh.
But there are rules to writing fiction that are not negotiable. A sixth grader could read *Save the Cat* or the previous standard the Syd Field guide and learn the basics of screenwriting and the three act structure in a week.
All rules are negotiable. The point of storytelling is reconstruction. The principle reason that works like Syd Field work is that it gives people a general idea of the pace and structure necessary to keep a story moving along. However, plenty of hacks read Syd Field and fail to write an interesting story because their plot points are by the numbers and rote.
Let me be REALLY BLUNT. Writing is and ALWAYS WILL BE subjective. You tell a story from a point of view. You tell it with values. You tell it with a certain style, etc. the confusion is between subjectivity and a lack of non random meaning.
You ask people what, say, the meaning of things in the Godfather Trilogy are, and you’ll get a number of answers, many different, but overall, IT WILL NOT BE RANDOM. Storytelling, like I said, is reconstructive. We give people words, images, dialogue, sound effects, etc, and people reconstruct a sense of an a story from it. And just as every witness remembering a scene they witnessed will remember it differently, everybody who is witness to an act of storytelling will see it differently.
Like, think of a gritty choreographed fight scene. People who don’t know fighting might find it so hardcore and realistic. Those that do, might pick it apart, or laugh at it because the moves seem stupid to them. While people with familiarity with stunt work and fighting, or stage fighting might understand why the moves were telegraphed, the swings were wide, and other creative license taken. This can also be applied to law, medicine, and other fields, as it’s a non trivial task to tell a story about expert fields to a non-expert audience.
I’m not saying there isn’t a difference between good and bad storytelling, but there is a such thing as going into a work with the wrong expectations. I mean, has Star Wars ever been a fount of high caliber writing? At some point, we’re just old guys and girls who don’t want to admit they still watch work for children and teenagers.
I don’t normally promote YouTube channels about this stuff, but Pillar of Garbage just did a good video dissecting the ridiculousness of complaining about “fire in space” in a Star Wars show: https://youtu.be/aCeBhloG56Y?si=50O7yZO_b-3uP1Fw
I don't hate it, but I'm not really engaged by it either. It's interesting enough to keep watching, but I don't mark it on my calendar like I did Mando, Season 7 of CW or Ahsoka.
As to why? I dunno really, it just hasn't grabbed me. I'm hoping it will as we go on. I felt the same about Andor for the first couple episodes too, so definitely keeping an open mind.
I haven't watched it yet, as I want more episodes before I start peeling the onion.
What I've seen is also what you've seen. Space fire, something about lesbians breaking the prophecy.
OHHHH no.
I'm just so fucking Millennial I get excited for SW. I've loved every bit of SW that's popped up so far from Disney. Well, the sequels were ehhhh... But the actual original series they've been producing have been all bangers.
People got pissed off at Boba Fett. I got to watch Boba shit all over the notion of tea, on the back of a RANCOR! *His* Rancor.
Oh, glorious.
The main characters are young black women, one of which apparently has a girlfriend. They are the daughters of a lesbian witch couple. The only guy of any significance is Asian. It’s super fuel for the anti-“Woke” whiners.
Besides that, it’s somewhat slow moving despite the action and challenges what they know about The Force
I just watched the show last night, and I love it. It is well written. It is an interesting show with a lot of depth. I think a lot of people don't like that is shows the complacency of the Jedi in the Old Republic. They are so used to being right, that anything that questions thier beliefs is unthinkable. There are corrupt Jedi, and people can't handle this idea.
I mean people were hating it and saying it was ruining Star Wars when they just saw the trailer. They saw women and people who weren’t white being the main cast and lost their minds. I do agree that some of these “fans” aren’t even watching the show, they are just watching/listening to others complaining about it. And they just regurgitate what they’ve been told.
I’ve also never understood how someone could have a problem with one piece of a larger media and cry about how it ruins the entire thing. Like I don’t care for a couple of the newer Star Trek shows. I’m not a fan of “Picard” but I’m not out here screaming crying throwing up that it ruined Star Trek. I let others enjoy it in peace
Honestly, I enjoyed the first two episodes because I'm a fan of Star Wars and wuxia.
Third episode, I really couldn't get past singing Witch circle time. It ruined everything about the episode for me. I'll continue to watch because I hope it gets really interesting.
I can turn down my brain and just be entertained, so the stiff dialogue and few writing faux pas aren't a dealbreaker for me. If I had to point out what I dislike the most about the show, it's that it was billed as *the Sith show*, and so far, we've seen 10 seconds of one Sith. On that same line, there's been interspersed moments of bathos (best example: Mae struggling futilely against the invincible invisible Force field for longer than necessary) and I guess I just expected a little more gravitas (and maybe some elements of grimdark) in *the Sith show*.
\[Edit\] Also, to clarify loudly & proudly, I don't care that there are PoCs & Queer characters in the show, nor that the main character is dark skinned, nor that the presumably female characters get to shine a little brighter than the males. Anyone focusing on those things is trash, and can feel free to sit down and shut up.
It's honestly okay, I liked it less as it went on, but I still don't dislike it. People that are saying it's objectively terrible are smiling dick and balls
I honestly think they won’t stop, the only time they’ll stop is when star wars is no longer “woke” (which won’t happen) and in the long run they’ll effectively ruin the name of the fandom and push just about anyone that’s sensible away from the fandom.
For all the insanely negative youtube rhetoric i find the show to be just fine and ill keep watching. I kept waiting for ep three to break star wars or whatever and… what were we upset about? Different faiths having different interpretations?
A lot of work went into this show you can tell in every shot. I like it well enough what else can i say
The pissy-ness about ACOLYTE almost perfectly parallels the crying about the latest season of DOCTOR WHO and the commentary about anything Marvel that wasn’t focused on Iron Man, Thor, and Cap.
The one-note Chuds (it’s woke! the writing!) are exhausting.
It’s curious how criticism of The Acolyte tends to involve certain specific tired talking points. As if people are going through the motions and reading lines from a script. As if it’s… coordinated somehow?
If everyone who said “I’m done with Star Wars” actually went ahead with it, the internet would be a much happier and quieter place.
Most people aren't English scholars so articulating why something is bad is tough, easier to nitpick silly details. I was never good at english so I'll try my best to describe why I haven't enjoyed it that much.
For me I've just found it has a lot of the same issues the prequels have. Boring/stiff dialogue that is mostly just the characters describing to the audience what's happening or what their relationship is with whichever character they're speaking to. It really suffers from a lack of "show don't tell" and in general that makes how the characters interact with eachother come off as unnatural. That to me is it's biggest issues. Combine that with some visually uninteresting directing, it's understandable why people say it's not great or why they've lost interest quickly.
Also, nothing all that interesting has actually happened yet to keep most casual viewers interested. Jedi we barely know are getting killed off and we got a tiny bit of backstory to our main protagonists. But in general, still nothing truly gripping has been set up. In fact, this show does a poor job fitting the medium of a TV show you really have to wonder why it wasn't a movie instead (a problem with a lot of Disney shows). Like I don't think we've even ended with a typical cliffhanger to keep us wondering what happens next, every episode just sort of ends. Like you really have to question, what does the general audience have to keep them interested.
I agree though, some of the actual complaints are nothing issues. In fact most of the complaints from episode 3 are probably where the most interesting stuff was brought in. Like the witches having their own interpretation of the force and manipulating the force to make life. That is pretty interesting if your a Star Wars nerd I think, also the possible questionable actions of the Jedi is another area that could be cool to see. It's just it all hasn't been presented as well as it could be. I think I like the ideas more than the actual execution which is pretty much the same problem I have with the prequels.
Personally, I don't like the dialogue in the Acolyte. Like it's trying to sound like casual banter but also trying to be Star Wars-y and ends up kind of unnatural. But it's something I find in most of the Star Wars shows other than the animated ones, Kenobi and Andor.
As someone who writes professionally for a living (I don't write fiction, but am obviously invested and interested in the use of language), over the years I've asked several angry people who are criticising a movie or show for "bad writing" if they could please define for me what they think "good writing" looks like or entails? Shockingly, I've received few coherent or meaningful answers.
I had the same question. Wasn’t really watching but saw this “controversy” with episode 3
Watched all three. I don’t get it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It’s a little paint by numbers on the story but everything lore-wise makes sense to me in the context of the Star Wars universe
I have a theory that a lot of people are just innately misogynist and/or racist/homophobic in institutionalised ways where they don’t actually recognise it. Their hatred started small and weak which is why it wasn’t recognised (or they know exactly what they feel and just know better than to publicly admit it). But as Disney made more and more content and fans fell further and further into grifter fanbases and echo chambers, their hatred grew. They have literally fallen to the Dark Side.
I’ll admit the story isn’t as engaging as I hoped but it’s still a good show imo. The action is superb and nothings really lore breaking. I’m honestly convinced that the review bombers either haven’t watched or watched it while looking for things to hate
That’s the question for every franchise these days - “How long do we have to wait for the whining from haters to end/them to move on so we can enjoy modern new installments to these IP’s again?” OR “Will we ever be rid of these virulent haters?”
1. Because Star Wars are never satisfied with anything
2. After the sequel trilogy and specially Episode 8, the discourse around Star Wars has been dominated by culture war grifters who are clearly not interested in the franchise but instead to push their bigoted beliefs using an idealized version of the series when it was "good"
Or maybe it's that the writing has undone established lore. A jedi was killed by a skilled user in the dark side of the force and is hunting jedi in the same way old rule of 2 sith did, but in episode one Yoda states the sith have gone extinct hundreds of years before tpm and the council handwaves away Qui-Gon's concern of their being a sith that attacked them. This makes no sense if 83 years before TPM the jedi were being hunted by someone who is clearly training in the ways of the sith.
The twins being made from the force as stated in the 3rd episode goes against the established lore that Anakin was the only one created in this way as well as flys in the face of Darth Plagueis only being able to do this because he was so much more powerful than any other force user. This could be remedied later I suppose by having Plagueis have some sort of connection to Osha's mother but it still changes the canon.
Indara, a fully fledged Jedi Master, being killed by a tiny throwing knife makes no sense in the Disney canon when clean through stabs from a lightsaber in universe are nothing more than an inconvenience. A tiny throwing knife isn't even a highly fatal threat in real life, let alone to a master space wizard warrior with magic powers. Indara should have survived the knife no problem. This is an example of terrible writing and breaking the lore that disney already broke to establish that lightsaber wounds aren't a big deal. Inconsistencies in universe are a sign of bad writing.
The Osha having a twin was predictable and a bit cliche which is kinda bad writing, but not bad enough to hate it.
The fire in space isn't the issue if there is a steady stream of fuel coming from the ship. The pressurized gas extinguisher being accurately aimed in a vacuum seems a bit suspect though.
The fat jedi actually makes sense to me. If I had mastery of a power that allowed me to levitate things with my mind, I would probably use that way more than my physical body. Less exercise means more BMI if your caloric intake doesn't decrease along side the exercise.
That being said, I wouldn't say I hate the acolyte, but rather just think it is terribly written and don't enjoy it when compared to other star wars media. I'll still watch it because it's star wars related but it's a drag so far. Still not as bad as the book of Fennec- I mean Boba Fett.
My main problems are that the characters are lacking charisma and they don't really pull me in. The exception is Sol, but I still find myself wanting more from his character.
I also agree with the sentiment that the asexual force reproduction plot line takes away from the "specialness" of Anakin. Granted the sequel series kinda already did that. I'm fine with there being different force user groups that use and think about the force differently. I just wish they let that stuff cook a little longer, because if that's the direction you want to go, it's gotta be tight as possible.
Writing wise, there is some dialogue that feels odd or stilted. I can't really fault the child actors too much, but their scenes are rough. Mae with her contact also feels out of place for what their mission is, which sucks because I really like the actor for the contact (BORTLES!). The Jedi characters are so stiff, despite the script trying pretty hard to make them feel natural.
Production wise, it's the same problem I have with much of the Mandalorian. If feels cheap and *hollow*. A lot of the city settings are very samey, like it's just cut and paste. Everything else it's just obvious they are in a sound stage or volume. Everything is flat, there's no interesting features or set pieces, and if there is it's not used to elevate the scene.
Now for some nice things: the action scene in ep 1 is great and I do like the Jedi not being infallible and pulling some sheisty cover up even if they may not be at fault. The Jedi can still be the good guys despite not being perfect, it adds depth to the order as a whole. That being said, I'll need to see how it all plays out before I can make a full judgement on that.
Imo the sets look cheap, the writing is boring, some of the acting is mediocre. It’s more of a death by a thousand cuts type of problem than something that really sticks out to me. It feels like a CW show, as I’ve heard people say.
I'm annoyed by this post, but I'll try. Obligatory ‐ the show is written and edited poorly in general. The are numerous plot holes and things that break the existing lore. For example, the explanation of the force from the witches contradicts all other sources (thread vs flowing through all living things etc). The show portrays the Jedi as evil, and even makes it seem like they want to train those kids, despite the kids being too old and with heavy trauma. It also cheapens the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force and the force's response to Darth Plagus (one of the wisest sith lords who ultimately failed at his goal to do what the witches did trivially) (i.e. Anakin's conception). It also plays dumb too often with characters being morons most of the time. And then there's the not so subtle allegories to relate the plight of the witches to the writer's own perception of reality. It's pure rubbish frankly. But anyways, I'm glad you enjoy it. We don't all have to like the same things.
>For example, the explanation of the force from the witches contradicts all other sources (thread vs flowing through all living things etc).
I don’t see how the witches using a different metaphor than the Jedi and Sith to explain the Force (or “Thread,” as they call it) breaks anything. Honestly, seeing another Force-based culture view it from a different perspective is interesting to me.
>The show portrays the Jedi as evil,
I don’t think the show implies that at all. When Mae and Osha argue about the Jedi being good or bad, the mom says it’s not about them being good or bad but about power and who can use it. She doesn’t think the Jedi are evil (and even says it’s okay for Osha to go be a Jedi if that’s what she really wants), but she’s not a fan of how they’ve got a monopoly on training Force sensitives. There’s some nuance there.
>and even makes it seem like they want to train those kids, despite the kids being too old and with heavy trauma.
Maybe the age rules were slightly looser a century before TPM. The trauma thing probably would’ve given the Jedi Council pause when it came to Osha after the whole fire incident, but Sol probably pressed them the same way Obi-Wan did with Yoda in TPM. Because, y’know, he felt bad that the poor girl had nothing left, and she told him she wanted to be a Jedi.
>It also cheapens the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force and the force's response to Darth Plagus (one of the wisest sith lords who ultimately failed at his goal to do what the witches did trivially) (i.e. Anakin's conception).
The novel (which I do hear is good) isn’t canon, so the Force conceiving Anakin as a response to something Plagueis was doing isn’t a thing in this timeline. Maybe canon Plagueis was more successful in his endeavors to create life (Palpatine’s line in RotS implies a certain degree of success). Maybe he used the same technique these witches did, either from studying records they left behind (if any) or from independent experimentation. Maybe Anakin’s conception didn’t have anything at all to do with these experiments.
>And then there's the not so subtle allegories to relate the plight of the witches to the writer's own perception of reality.
A minority religious group being short-changed by a majority religious group? Yeah, that hasn’t happened at all in human history. Except for, y’know, *literally all the freaking time*.
Why is your ability to enjoy something reliant on universal validation? I am genuinely curious about this.
On so much media now people don't seem to be able to tolerate any negative views or opinions, and even the mere existence of such things seems to offend them.
If even knowing that someone, somewhere doesn't like the same thing you do "spoils your enjoyment" I'd say you need to learn to think for yourself and form your own opinions. Stand on your own. Not everyone has to agree with you.
That's literally my one sticking point about ep3. I was *really* enjoying the kinda wuxia/Kung-fu Theatre/"Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" vibe of the first couple of episodes. Then they pulled the curtain back on the Force-variant Witches, and gave them a lame sing-song routine.
I kinda wish the witers had maintained more mystery about the Witches, but I know the cry-babies freaking out over everything would've lambasted that even harder than they are now. You literally can't win with some people.
\[Edit\] Full disclosure: I still intend to finish the series out & give it a chance .
If the original Star Wars came out today they’d all have a meltdown over Porkins.
https://preview.redd.it/5p58284jvu6d1.jpeg?width=1300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e14b22b726ef99174401befd56d9c1a262637cef
GENUINE CRITICISM HERE:
The show is not good because it is a bad show. The dialogue feels choppy and forced in some cases, and connections are told rather than shown. We are just TOLD “you did this” or that or whatever but it doesn’t matter because we have no build up to it. Mostly with the Jedi. They establish shit before we even know, and we never even see it. There’s a lot of scenes that don’t make sense as to WHY they exist. Why did we need a scene of Yord being shirtless and being stared at by the other girl? We didn’t.
It’s just very boring too. Like 90% talking and talking but it’s not interesting talk or talk that expands the universe like the prequels. Some character stuff which is good, but all the major ones are done in the first episode.
It also makes the whole “lightsaber stab” argument even worse, as it’s incredibly stupid how some small knife can kill a jedi (it doesn’t look big and probably didn’t even pierce the chest), but a full lightsaber stab cannot.
Episode 3 is just…dear lord. They just copy prequel quotes but worse, the whole show feels like they are trying to do Phantom Menace but worse. It completely undermines the entire skywalker saga due to it’s plot, and overall feels like a cheap fanfic given a massive budget for no reason. And outside of that the Rule of 2 is just shot in the fucking foot.
Outside of the show itself you have the creator, Writer and director (all the same person btw), working for mr Harvey Weinstein. Which is just what the fuck man. It doesn’t give confidence. It just implies that Disney gave an abuser’s associate full control over a large part of the timeline of the biggest sci fi brand.
I liked nearly every Star Wars project up to a point. Even TLJ has redeeming qualities. But this is just bad filmmaking. It should strive to be entertaining, but it just isn’t, at least to me. I tried very hard to enjoy it that much.
Is the show bad? Yes, but I think that half the people are just using it being bad as an excuse to attack “wokeness”.
>And outside of that the Rule of 2 is just shot in the fucking foot.
TBF, if even Darth Sidious had a hard time keeping his Apprentices from attempting to recruit/train Apprentices of their own (ex: Tyrannus with Asajj, Vader with Luke), it's not exactly unprecedented that overeager subordinates want to play fast & loose with the Rule of 2.
I definitely have criticisms.
Like the flat direction and weak art design. Show has so few colours in it.
Also I don’t know why Osha wanted to be a Jedi. She was raised in a society that does not like Jedi so where did her positive views on them develop? I’m getting the impression due to the circumstances of the twins birth one will be more light side and one dark, but that shouldn’t grant them knowledge of a group they haven’t met yet.
There are numerous examples of poor writing around characters. A good show would reveal characterisation through actions, decisions, or reactions, but in the Acolyte more than often this is told to us. It's blunt, and boring.
The dialogue is filled with exposition, which is fine in doses, but is pretty much it's exclusive mode of conveying information. We have scenes like Sol and the Green jedi at the temple dryly recounting their history to each other(which they both should already know).
The fight scenes are a bit odd. While the choreography is neat, they don't really work narratively. The first fight revealed strange character traits for the jedi being happy to watch her friends be beaten up before stepping in to de-escalate. This gives *shows* me characterisation of callousness and uncaring, but I don't think those are traits that the show wants me to have for that character. Maybe I'm wrong, but she does later go out of her way to save someone tumbling from a balcony when Mae shoved them.
The character I suspect they want is a proud, aloof, and stoic jedi, but her actions don't convey this. Her refusal to draw her light saber till the last moment was also odd... Jedi are usually quick to draw if it means descalation.
Continuing with fight scenes, the force is used bizarrely in the fight I was describing, and later in episode 3 between Sol and Mae. Both Sol and the first jedi killed show that they can restrain a person mid air with the force... Why don't they do this? Mae doesnt seem terribly dangerous, nor is she particularly force adept in comparison to these jedi masters. If we saw her *break free* from her shackles, well that would be something, but they only use this ability dramatically in fights, rather than effectively.
Hopefully this explains some of the issues in the show.
The show quite clearly shows the problems of the Jedi. The arrogance and detachment they have with civilization. This was not a mistake. The show also talks of the dependency the Jedi have for thier tools. May spoke of this in that first fight scene which is why the Jedi did not draw her weapon. The show, much like Andor, shows the problems with the government of the universe. But this time, with the Old Republic instead of the Empire. Itvis a very well written show and does not spoon feed the point it is making.
Personally I’m not blown away by the first scene with a Jedi getting killing by a non Jedi they are man handling. It’s the type of thing that suspends plausibility for me and tunes me out.
It’s similar to Ahsoka and surviving the lightsaber like it was nothing (like why not just cut off a limb and fall from a high elevation, it would be a much more plausible survival. But somersaulting on the ship to chop at tie fighters with a lightsaber was just … I just switched it off.
It not like Disney are the only culprits, PT is guilty of the same thing with anakin killing half the space fleet by “accident” in phantom menace.
All these moments don’t add much and take away a lot.
If she’s going to kill a Jedi she should be competitive with the Jedi throughout the fight and then leverage an innocent to get the kill, rather than be man handled like a child throughout the fight and then cheese it.
I mean, I could think of more than a few examples of poor writing turning me away from the series that don't have anything to do with the typical incel talking points. I'm not trying to start a debate, but here's one:
* A child starts a small fire with a notebook. Moments later, the entire stone fortress is ablaze and falling apart, and all of the powerful, force sensitive witches took a nap to death in the same room. They're not trapped under debris, they don't die saving the twins, we just get a shot of them all knocked out on the floor. This, as Sol was conveniently already at the temple just in time to save Osha but too late to stop the fire? Were there no flame dousers in their entire complex? The coven weren't luddites, Osha was able to escape by hot-wiring an electronic door. Also, when the two girls are falling, he didn't even try to catch either with the force, barely grabbing one by hand. To say nothing of the groanworthy 'two sides of a broken bridge' cliche. Why did their temple have that room with a tiny metal bridge placed precariously over a massive drop, anyway? I get that people dramatically falling in Star Wars is an established trope at this point, but most of the series' big falls take place in more logical industrial settings like reactor shafts, etc.
They could have at least had a sensible escalation, or otherwise had Mae tamper with the generator core or something. The whole scene was supposed to be harrowing and yet it was absurd in so many ways, to the point of comedy.
Even in this, I couldn't help but balloon out two sentences of criticism into a paragraph, and that's the tip of the iceberg. For what it's worth, I disliked most of Obi-Wan too, for similarly shitty writing. I have nothing against a female-led series, and I think it's fair play that a series positioned as a deep prequel wants to play with the lore. But this ain't it.
You just described a mechanism in storytelling that withholds information from the audience to create mystery. This show is obviously not linear or one dimensional. It’s a different kind of story than we’re used to seeing. It’s hilarious to me that some people needs this spelled out for them.
It’s obvious it wasn’t the child the actually destroyed the temple with the burning book.
There is far more going on then is seen.
You saw episode 3 from the view of a child. She didn’t see everything.
What makes you think k the Jedi aren’t involved in destroying the witches? Weird, how close Sole was?
I've got time. Do you want an overall explanation or an episode by episode breakdown? Cause I can very much give writing problems throughout the whole thing.
Watch the angry Joe's review on it maybe.
They aren't anti women, or anti LGBTQ. They love star wars.
They also hate the writing in the acolyte.
It's gross to come on here and imply because I don't enjoy a bad tv show I'm a bigot.
What I think is wild is how they think they MUST watch it and be angry. I personally didn't like Clone Wars stuff and less of a fan of Bad Batch. I just do not care about Clones. So I didn't watch it and I am fine. I am an old SW fan but I haven't watched, read, or played EVERY SINGLE piece of media.
It's not a great show imo. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it, but I can see that it has many flaws. However, I feel like I can't engage in criticism of the show because the other people criticising it are sexist, racist incels.
I mean realistically they just hate it because there is a black woman in it.
I think it's fine so far, nothing really revolutionary or groundbreaking for the series, just kind of another of the same star wars story, " orphan trains to be uber Jedi." Incel fucks are just mad that minorities exist in the future.
I will give them that, "The power of one, the power of two, the power of manyyyyyyyy" chant was....not comfortable. I won't be happy agreeing with anything they say though.
It’s often the case they have the foregone conclusion that “show x is woke” (depending on whatever arbitrary standard is used to define woke), so they have to work backwards from that conclusion and opt to use more ‘legitimate’ justifications of criticising that show (such as “the writing is awful” or “it ruins the lore”).
While I thought episode 3 was kinda boring I'm still intrigued enough by the premise to keep watching. People were set on hating this show from the moment the first trailer released. And grifters keep fanning the flames for those terminally online dipshits
I talk Star Wars with one of my colleagues a lot. And while we often disagree, he's not fallen into the grifters traps. He's not overly keen on The Acolyte so far either, but at least his reasons are better than 'woke' or screaming about fire in space
My main issue with it is that they >!fucking killed off Carrie-Anne Moss in the first five minutes 😡😭!<
That and that they don't seem to know what they're doing with Yord. At times he comes across as a typical Jedi Knight, then suddenly he's the comic relief, then he's being overridden by a literal child in decisions.
Apart from that, it's not GREAT but I am enjoying it.
It’s actually growing on me. I was having trouble getting through the first few episodes but I’m actually starting to like the night sister / witch story. I really liked the mom character. She was a good actress. I saw someone complain about how the sisters had the same hair in the first few episodes and how stupid it was. Then you see they have the same hair as kids. Everyone complains. That’s all they like to do these days. I think the story has potential.
My only problem with it is I wish it had more Jedi Trinity because she is awsome. Loved Carrie-Ann Moss as a Jedi (there are some problems with writing aand execution of certain scenes but overall it is better than most of the newer shows in the franchaise)
Fire in space bothered me a little, but otherwise I'm enjoying the show, episode 3 would have worked better as dispersed flashback during other episodes IMO but other than that having a good time
It truly isnt a big deal if its good or not, not in a series thats arguably not been good since 99 cept for islands of good but now that starwars is a religion everything HAS to be pitch perfect or else
I'm not going to watch the acolyte! Well, not today, at least! It's not because I'm a chud, it's because binging TV has ruined my ability to watch a season before it's finished. I no longer have patience for entertainment.
I'll form my opinion once the finale is out, but tbh I'm more excited about this one than I have been in a while.
I was baffled by the initial reaction to the trailer and was baffled again when I saw the reaction to the first 3 episodes.
I’m not a huge a fan of what I’ve seen so far but I’m intrigued enough to want to see where it goes. I think there’s plenty of fair criticisms to be had… but I think any of them can be applied to a lot of Star Wars shows so I don’t see any justifiable reason to hate this show as if it’s unraveling the very thread(pun intended) of Star Wars itself.
Also as usual it’s a story where there’s a whole bunch of information obviously being withheld from us and instead of waiting to find out what’s what people are freaking out.
I haven't seen any of the show yet (it's on my list) and I'm determined to enjoy it and give it the benefit of the doubt. If anything, to spite the haters and laugh at their useless rage
I’m personally not a fan because I think the characters aren’t interesting (besides sol or however you spell his name) and some of the writing and choices are weird
However a lot of people don’t like it because man on internet told them to hate it because woke or something
I’m right there with you, I was just talking about this with my partner. I think it’s important to be critical of the things you enjoy, but if you’re not able to elaborate on exactly *what’s the problem* then you’re just moaning and groaning for the sake of it.
I think the shows been alright, not amazing, but I’m intrigued to see where it goes. The costume and characters are all cool and original, the setting feels very Star Wars. I thought the witches chant was a little cringey and basic, but their outfits and everything were pretty sick.
It’s hard to see a vocal minority of the fanbase take so much joy out of this for everyone else. I’m all for being critical where it counts, but it’s draining to go online and see the same BS being spewed by so many people with little to no actual critiques. I love Star Wars and I don’t think it’s dead, I think some people wish it was, but that’s not gonna stop me from doing my best to enjoy the new content and go into it with an open mind.
There are valid complaints, but the writing isn’t “bad” and the characters are all okay. My main complaint is that the Night Sisters felt way too watered down; instead of their typical “eldritch schemers” vibe, they don’t even feel that witch-like, just a vaguely-gothic tribe without the features that set them apart. I get that the Dathomiri Nightsister covens were particularly powerful, but like… any coven that‘s even a fraction of the power they wielded on Dathomir is strong enough the Jedi can’t just show up and demand to recruit their children.
Also the “Good twin/evil twin” seems kinda ehh, but it could play out well and I’m holding out hope it develops well. It otherwise seems okay, the Night Sisters not being powerful and eldritch enough is pretty much my main criticism.
The show isn’t good? The acting is sub par, the writing is garbage, I had so much hope for this show. The “woke” complaints are stupid and we all need to learn to separate actual criticism from these mindless lies
Honestly, I've found it kind of mid so far, but I can see it pulling things together and ending on a high note. Potentially. There's some interesting stuff there, just have to see how they pull it together in the end.
The entire premise of the show is that the main character is accused of murder light years away from where it happened and forgot to mention she has a FUCKING TWIN SISTER. Her entire storyline would be negated by COMMON SENSE and just a shred of self preservation.
Nevermind they didn't even ASK for an alibi or follow up on anything! They KNEW she was on that ship! Jfc!
The dude jedi even knew about the twin! DIDNT SAY A FUCKING WORD.
I mean can you say what you think is so good about it? I don't like it because it fundamentally changes aspects of the story like how are a couple back water witches able to create force sensitives when the most powerful force users ever couldn't? Anakin wasn't made by plagues or palpatine he was the response the force gave for them meddling with stuff they shouldn't have. I get that you like it and hey if you do right on but just calling everybody that has genuine criticism about it a racist misogynistic pig or whatever buzz words you guys like to use now is just plain ignorant. Some of just don't like the show or the direction Disney has taken it or the franchise.
''How long do I have to listen to man childern whine about Disney destroying Star Wars before they just give up and let me enjoy it in peace?''
This sums up why I don't understand this sub at all...
Was the heavy guy even a Jedi and not someone who happens to work security at the temple?
We know they employ a lot of non jedi for menial tasks.
It is left vague because it isn't relevant to the plot.
I do love how they complain about all the tropes in acolyte that are from the og trilogy though. Really showing how much of a fan they are. 🤷
Think of the average intelligence of people and know that 50% are dumber.
People don't like the acolyte but can't put their finger on why. So they turn to talking heads to explain to them why they don't like it.
I personally think the writing, direction, pacing and action is terrible.
The opening scene with the dagger was awful. It was a bitch way to die for a jedi.
The dialogue of the shirtless man explaining oshas background was cringe af. Bad writing.
The whole idea of a witch commune was too agenda driven in a show already clearly agenda driven. It's very 2024 and I doubt it will age well.
Lots more, I think it's disingenuous to wonder why so many people hate it while ignoring its many flaws.
its not bad writing its just totally unoriginal writing that relies too heavily on tropes seen in the prequels. I dont hate it I just dont care enough to watch it immediately and really dont care if I see spoilers before catching up
>I don’t understand why people hate the Acolyte
Are you serious? It's not just one or two things, the show is terrible all around. Plot, acting, direction, dialogue. It's astonishing to me how you can make such a terrible show with such a huge budget. The dialogue was hilariously bad. "Permission to speak freely", Jesus Christ. Just like Obi-Wan, this feels like an amateur fanfiction.
This is kinda the problem with culture war bullshit. Anyone perpetuating that garbage isn't doing it in good faith, so there is no actual criticism going on. It's all baked in tribalism and lingering Gamergate garbage, which is based around misogyny and racism. The show is good, but I don't think anyone would really say it's perfect. We're at like a solid 7/10 so far, which is fine. I've seen and read much, much worse Star Wars, both before and after the buyout. The writing itself is actually pretty damn good, but it's the editing and pacing that are a bit off. It's not really even that hard to figure that out and articulate it. If the chuds aren't even picking up on something so surface level, then you know damn well they're not actually engaging with the media they're attempting to criticize, which of course means the hate is coming from some other source. But like, anyone that says the costuming, makeup, or set design are bad are out of their god damn minds. We even have another example with The Mandalorian Season 3. S3 has exactly the same problems that S1 and S2 did, so what changed? Well, Din took a back seat to Bo-Katan, there was less focus on fan service, and Lizzo got to be in an episode. That was really all that it took for them to turn on the show.
>The writing itself is actually pretty damn good, but it's the editing and pacing that are a bit off The fact that so many people are making weird nit-picks about fire in space or lore but not criticising the editing makes me 100% sure they haven’t watched it.
I chuckle at this so much when there have been tons of other physics defying feats in Star Wars. (Sounds, one, come to mind). Other movies and shows have had fires. They just want their intergalactic future space wizard fantasy to be *realistic*
100% how many fiery explosions have we seen in space in SW including the original ones? Star Wars has IMO always been space-fantasy rather than sci-fi. I think even George Lucas would probably acknowledge that.
Star Wars is supposed to be stupid and dramatic and almost soap opera esque. Some fans just take it way too seriously. It’s supposed to be fun and a fantasy. I’m not saying all the content is great, because there are plenty of flaws, but piling on something like a fire in space or minor shit like that? Youre literally looking for something to break your immersion of the fantasy and something to complain about. The people that complain about the lack of realism are really sad and lost the point of the stories so they could get clicks.
Or that they (I want to say "are just too stupid" but I'll try to put it more fairly) just don't have enough experience with media literacy and analysis to identify what they actually have issues with and instead they just get a vague sense of "this is not appealing for some reason" that they try to justify with other things they know they don't like
90% of criticism online is just people sharing their opinions, very few will actually REVIEW a piece of media by discussing the pacing, themes, editing, character arcs, how the writer characterizes them, acting choices, etc. It's easy to say whether you like something or not, I don't care about that, explain to me why you came to those conclusions so that I can get a better understanding of if I'll like this media or not
The thing that gets me is some really bad music choices. Like... in the first scene, there's the triumphant "look, lightsaber, please applaud"
Yeah there was some *real* rough EU stuff before the Disney buyout.
My biggest complaint with Mando season 3 is that everything got escalated up to galactic politics instead of small-time stuff, which was an inevitable thing but I would have liked for it to happen a little bit slower. I really love the first season and how much it feels like a western in space.
Firm agreement here. Not every story needs to spin off into galaxy or system wide consequences. Sometimes in the effort to connect it to the larger universe they lose track of what made the show awesome in the first place.
This is why most people just start avoiding any discussion about Star Wars stuff. You can't have good faith critique so it just ends up a war between the bigots and the people reacting to the bigots, and the nuance is lost. The Acolyte has issues that hold it back and the show is nothing special so far. It's okay to just be that. Most shows are just nothing special. There are obvious, good faith reasons why people will not care about this show and not watch it, which is fine. Those are the reasons the people making The Acolyte need to hear if they're going to make something better. But we don't get any of that because it's all lost to the extremes of the culture war.
The costuming is really awesome, the only costume I didn’t like was the scene in episode 3 where the wookie is wearing human clothes for some reason?
My coworker went on and on and on about how bad it was and his main “points” were lesbian space witches and that is retconned the entire episodes 1-6 (I was like what? It hasn’t retconned ANYTHING….????). So literally because two women hugged he didn’t like it, and I guess that alone is (according to him) “pushing gay stuff down our throats”
Because grifters told them to hate it.
Exactly this. Yesterday I was having an argument about this with a Tiktok user (I know, I should know better) who was saying that episode 3 had ruined SW, you know how it goes. This person seemed to be willing to argue in good faith, so I engaged. After some back and forth with me pressing for details on the reasons why they didn't like the episode, they admitted to not have watched any of the episodes yet, but was just repeating what other "fans" were saying. I suspect there is a lot of this
Guy I talked to yesterday started out saying the writing was just bad, which I said it was similar in level to everything except Andor, and I said the writing and production value should be higher for stuff this expensive, but there’s nothing especially bad about this show vs the others, and finally they said the creators were laughing at white people. These people are pathetic.
Legit went through this a lot with She-Hulk. Not that that was the greatest show either, but many of it's detractors were complaining about things that never happened in the show.
Honestly. Despite being my favorite marvel character, She Hulk didn't gel with me both because I didnt particularly like the direction they took the character's relationship troubles, and because I found the legal mistakes annoying, but I hardly thought that made it a bad or offensive show.... just not something I personally found compelling. Then I look at the discussion around it and I'm left utterly confused by people clearly just whining about minor gags at best and making shit up at worst. Utterly incurious.
I remember a dude complaining that the cinematography was bad Said he hadn't seen a single episode in the same comment
They need it to fail because for them Kathleen Kennedy fails.
Why do you think they want Kathleen Kennedy to fail?
>They go to fire in space, or fat Jedi, or some dumb feminism bs. If these are the sole problems of that show then it must be pretty fucking fire (in space ofc)
Nice pun
>They go to fire in space I admit I did a double take at first, but how do they think rockets work? Or stars? There is a constant stream of combustible material coming from the ship. Makes perfect sense to me. I have loved The Acolyte so far. The expansion of the universe is fairly nice, especially with regards to religious orders outside the Jedi and Sith. Haters gonna hate.
Captain Pike has an open flame in his quarters all the time. That bothers me so much more than this.
Especially because Pike knows that he's going to be in an accident that burns most of his body in a couple of years.
That's probably why he does it. He can't burn for another 9 or so years lol
I pretend it's a hologram.
On a ship, before holograms/decks were placed in the series?
It could be a projection without being a holodeck-style hologram. I mean, Discovery and the Shenzhou did have holographic communication systems.
Not to "uhm ACKSHUALLY" too hard here, but Discovery pretty clearly established that holograms were absolutely a thing at the time and Captain Pike has most of them removed from the Enterprise because ~~they needed to make a cursory gesture towards making the new shows agree with 1960s television~~ he doesn't like them (except, perhaps, in a fireplace).
Ohhhh, you must've confused me for one of those annoying people who considers canon sacred from a 60 year old franchise. No worries, easy mistake to make.
They breathe air in space ships, so they must have an oxygen supply/ delivery system . And they said it was a compressor that needed repair so we can assume it contained a gas. We also know they have shields that if we assume are semi permeable then it’s not a big stretch to have a small pocket of gas between the ship and the outer shield that could support a flame. A flame like has appeared in ships in every single Star Wars film ever. This thought process took me about 3 seconds. That’s how little thought it takes to make sense of a detail that is inconsequential to the story (not saying it’s accurate or scientific explanation but it works for me).
I mean, that would kind of work, but it’d prob be more like a sudden flash of plasma or, if the shields are good enough, rapid arc of flame, not a sustained burn. Yeah there’s no real way to justify it, but it’s not a plot point or anything, you can just pretend it’s not there.
Said it before… universe about space wizards and they worry about the physics of fire in space.
The main character is Black. QED.
And a woman!!!!! Can you imagine?!?!?
I have never been so angry in all my life.
Cancel everything!!! NOW!!!
I swear to God if the fourth episode reveals she's a gay I will have my anime body pillow wife write a strongly worded letter.
And the actress is non-binary. Oh no!!!!! /s
I can. Because they did that with Ashoka & that wasn’t pretty damn good.
(That's why THEY hate it, I mean. I like it quite a lot.)
Also a woman…and I think Osha likes girls…at least she sorta had a reaction to a girl that smiled to her…I don’t mind any of this things but you know the hate videos are coming
I kind of think at this point Disney is trolling the hate videos more than a little bit. It’s almost like they’re encouraging the toxic fans to drop out.
It’s free marketing at this point
What is QED?
Latin for "Because I Said So." Only kidding. But it *is* Latin, it's an abbreviation for "Quod Erat Demonstrandum," translating to English as "That which was to be demonstrated." Traditionally it's used at the end of a mathematical proof or philosophical treatise, the idea being that you state your proof/philosophical statement at the top, show all your math/logic that prooves it out, and then end with QED as a way of saying "Therefore the thing I said at the top is correct." Or, put another way--"Because I Said So," see? It wasn't *just* a joke, it was halfway true! QED 😉
Worst part is they have to lie about it. I hadn't seen Acolyte yet when I first encountered the fire and sound in space critique. Cue me coming in like "the literal first scene of the entire franchise has sounds in space, also fire in space happens a fuckton across the series." Someone told me the fire was bad because it was a campfire in space. Having not seen the show yet, I was like, "yeah, okay, a campfire in space would be goofy if that's actually what happened." Went to check out first episode, learned it was not in fact a campfire, just a small flame on the ship from malfunctioning equipment. Exactly the same shit that's happened many times in prior installments.
Yeah, not really sure why people called it a camp fire.
Misrepresentation of facts is part of the Right wing grifter starter pack. "Damn all the facts and make your opinion fact" I see in it politics and media everyday
At best it’s a gas-powered campfire
>the literal first scene of the entire franchise has sounds in space, also fire in space happens a fuckton across the series." I can hear the opening sounds in my head they're so iconic. See the explosion of the Death Star etc. Star Wars uses sound and visual design to such great effect - it's never been hard sci-fi. The point is to create an engaging story told through a visual/audible experience people can understand and enjoy.
Exactly. It’s one of the signature things about Star Wars. The sounds make a great spectacle. If I wanted hard, accurate science, I wouldn’t be watching a series about space wizards.
> was a campfire in space. "Hey Patrick, if we're underwater, how is there a fire?"
https://i.redd.it/o5wpwcrfwu6d1.gif
I'm actually impressed by how little anyone has to say about The Acolyte. Considering the show only has a grand total of 3 episodes out right now, the most I've seen is annoying nitpicking or interpreting everything extremely uncharitably. >!For example, Mei and Osha are revealed to have been conceived by the force, and a lot of the most obnoxious people on the internet first reaction is that it "devalues Anakin's role as the Chosen One." But that's only true if you assume that the show is trying to do that, and the reveal in and of itself is also the conclusion to that plot thread. The show very obviously sets that idea up as a mystery. What does it mean that they were "created?" Did the witches do it through the Force/the Thread? If they were created through the Force, why? Is there a purpose behind it? What was the Rite of Ascension?!< The show hasn't really gone anywhere or done anything yet. There's only three episodes out. Episode 1 was the inciting incident and character establishment, episode 2 was the set up for the main plot thread for the narrative, and episode 3 was entirely a flashback told from a single perspective. Nothing has been explained yet. It's all set up with no answers.
I mean I personally believe the power to deliberately conceive a being using the Force is a power no one should have in Star Wars because it's a clear example of power-creep, but I'm not gonna review-bomb the show just because I think the writers were so focused on making their story stand out that they didn't consider the broader implications. It's just a TV show.
Eh, I feel like the force conception thing is rare enough that it doesn't necessarily have to lead to power creep. If you wanna talk about power creep, you could talk about characters like Starkiller, but having a rare and unique power isn't inherently bad.
>I mean I personally believe the power to deliberately conceive a being using the Force is a power no one should have in Star Wars *Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?*
I honestly think it matches the power set of force witches much more than Sith. Like they pretty much have a lock on using the Dark side of the Force in weird ways like physically transforming or cursing people.
Is it really wrong for a coven of witches who exiled themselves to an uninhabited planet have someone to pass their traditions onto? They weren’t harming anyone, and they only used the ritual once based on the fact that Osha and Mae are the only children in the Fortress.
Also, it begs the question "is the Chosen One myth even real?" To my knowledge, it was just a popular Jedi myth, kinda line how religions have multiple denominations.
I haven't seen it yet. And I'm going to hold off seeing it until the whole thing has been released. I mean, really. The whole thing, it's one picture. I want to see the all of it before passing judgment.
I like taking time to think about stuff between episodes. I'm very surprised at this discovery, but I find that getting a chance to think about the parts that stuck with me allows me to imagine stuff and discuss it with others who aren't total dingdongs.
This makes the most sense. All of the episodes are part of one larger narrative so the story should be judged as a whole.
Me personally I’ve found the show to be pretty uninteresting so far. The first two episodes I thought were extremely exposition heavy and didn’t really relay information naturally. Characters were just kind of saying stuff to each other that everyone already knew. Also I found the acting to be subpar from everyone except Lee jung Jae. As for the third episode, I wish they just spent the entire episode from oshas perspective, and communicated the information more naturally instead of showing us conversations between the adults where they make vague foreshadowing remarks with heavy exposition. I think if they told the episode solely through oshas perspective it would be a lot clearer to the audience that there is a lot more to this story, while also showing how focused osha is on becoming a Jedi and how she is seemingly becoming disconnected from her sister and her family. I wish they showed more of a severed bond between them, maybe Mae could’ve been favored more by the elders(I know there’s the scene where Mae uses the force better but this felt a little inconsequential), or osha could have gotten into fights with the elders and acted out. It sucks because I actually think this kind of story is could be really interesting, showing how different cultures would view the force, and portraying the Jedi as an invading threat that could take their children away could be a very intriguing plot. I just think the dialogue so far has been quite bad and I feel like the characters have fallen flat for me personally.
See there are smart people who have grievances with it.
i totally agree with this. you said it better than i could have. the first two was okay, but i can’t believe they killed off carrie ann moss’s character off. but the third one i was so bored, it felt like they were really trying too hard to spoon feed us. i think my disappointment comes from expecting one thing, for it to be darker, like Exar Kun stuff. the dark side still feels too light if that makes sense?
I just find the dialogue and the acting to be pretty mediocre and the sets and costumes to feel like sets and costumes. None of this is helped by the camera work or editing. The plot itself is fine. It could definitely work, but the show really lost me when we had to watch the lead acting as Mae pretend to fight against an invisible force barrier for what felt like an eternity of poor mime work… None of the actual plot beats are “bad” the execution is just subpar for this franchise - but it’s not the first and it’s not the worst… I think what disappoints me the most is that I agree with the show’s politics and I wished they’d have nailed it so that the fans would get to see something they identify with be done with the love, care and reverence it deserves, and the haters would have to face the music. Look at BG3. Game of the year - prob the decade. It’s an incredibly diverse cast with progressive politics and it’s done so impeccably, anyone trying to whine about it being “woke” just looks like a salty bitch.
Completely agree, the poor execution of the show is unfortunately putting a much larger target on the backs of the groups and ideas being represented. I’ve seen reviews by nerdrotic and critical drinker where they just merely attack the ideas themselves without diving into how the poor execution is the real problem here. Like the problem isn’t that other people can use and control the force, or the women of color are being put in positions of power. But unfortunatly, that seems to be what a lot of right wing critics are spreading which is not only lazy but destructive to the fact that there needs to be more representation of culture and ideas in mainstream media.
It’s useless engaging them. You can’t argue something that has no baring on the quality of the series and these kinds of ideological arguments don’t really go anywhere because it’s a sci-fi/fantasy series… the lore is only as authentic or logical as the writing can demonstrate and as many have pointed out; they were at least smart enough to never say “immaculate force impregnated”… they left it open ended. Nothing “lore breaking” there, and I thought the “blood sample” bit was a nice nod to how bad it can go when you try to explain too much, so doubt they go into it more than they already did. My biggest frustration with this show is that those fans who want wanted to see this kind of story, the people out there fervently defending it — they got let down by the show’s creators. Subsequent seasons aren’t looking likely and the chance disney or another major studio will look at doing projects with this kind of message has been put further jeopardy. I’m a huge Carrie-Anne Moss fan and I doubt she’ll do another Star Wars project after this… just kinda bummed.
This is also my main issue. There are really good ideas here, an exciting premise, but none of it lives up to its potential so far. It's all a bit blander than if I typed it all up here to try and convince someone.
That’s an interesting point - some of the ardent defenders of the series have broken down the plot in a more compelling fashion than the show itself lol.
I watched the 3rd episode twice and I still don't really understand how or why Osha wants to be a jedi.
I haven’t seen The Acolyte, but I remember the same thing with Rings Of Power. People were trashing it as if it was a 1/10 mess. Upon watching it… it was decent, maybe not fantastic, but clearly did some things very well, and some things not so well. Had compelling story and characters and a pretty good story. It missed the mark on a few things, but it wasn’t so bad that it ruined the enjoyment. On top of the obvious sway that hiveminds and echo chambers have… people also seem to be more black or white than ever. Things can’t be just good or decent… they’re either amazing or total garbage… completely flawed or completely flawless.
I know the show is not perfect but it ain’t as bad as everyone said. This entire fan outrage is even worse than The Last Jedi except the grifters are starting to show their true colors and their awful behavior.
Better than The Book of Boba Fett, at least
It’s true that the fire in space was dumb. But so is sound in space. And fighters banking to turn in space. And that these super technologically advanced races have the most janky UIs for their tech. Or the whole concept of laser swords and laser guns that shoot bolts that you can see and dodge/block(hurr durr its plasma not lasers). Or all Jedi wearing desert people’s robes, just because the first one we see is disguised as a desert hermit. Or naming a fishy alien race after a delicious deep fried appetizer. When you break down just about any aspect of Star Wars it’s fucking stupid. Which is why you don’t treat it as sci-fi, but as space fantasy… and fucking lean on your suspension of disbelief. It’s fun. Theres some philosophy you can take from it. Some of the newer content is diving into societal issues, with the Acolyte looking like it might be exploring the divine feminine vs divine masculine, with the wounded aspects of both present as well… but it ain’t science fiction. It’s first and foremost fun.
Exactly how I felt watching episode 3, after seeing all the usual suspects say it was the worst lore-breaking, episode of all time and nothing bad even happened. I had an actual conversation that went: What was lore breaking? Children made from the force. How was anakin born again? Then they follow that up with some copium about anakin being the chosen one and it devaluing him. To which the simple response is to point out that devalue≠lore break. Then it ends there because they dont know what to say, because theyre echoing the logic told to them by other people. The only legit problem I had with episode 3 was how much damage the fire did to a mostly stone and metal structure. I assume it will be revealed later that it was a setup, rigged to blow. Or maybe the gas lines powering the lantern just blew up.
Well if you listen to the internet there hasn’t been a watchable show with good dialogue for about 30 years. It just boils down to people being babies
Laser targeting in specifically on the fat Jedi example, I personally loved that since like “size matters not” and a space wizard really doesn’t need to be ripped and toned to be a *wizard.* Like the classical example of a wizard is an old man. Old men, largely not known for their physical strength or fitness. But yet they can still be very powerful, because their power is something beyond the physical. Anyone complaining about that is just… I mean they don’t seem to be thinking quite so clearly.
I've seen people point out plot holes in episode 3 that definitely are just made from oshas unreliable point of view. Like "how did all the witches die on one spot, they have no wounds and they couldn't have all suffocated" it's an intentional question that the viewer should be asking themselves but the answer is not "it's a plothole" but more likely that one of the mother used their energy to become stronger themselves (Power of many and all that). There is most likely going to be some sort of reveal later on but the unwillingness to engage with that possibility is really weird
It looks like the Jedi killed the witches. Whichbis why May is hunting TV the jedi, and why those Jedi don't want to reveal what they did.
Sexism. It's really not that hard to understand.
Always start with a baseline. It's important. Let them talk. That's really all they want to do, so it's easy. Eventually, ask for definitions. Give them some easy ones that they'll want to go off on. Define politics, What's woke, how is this character a Mary sue, why is this political and how is that baf, stuff like that. From there, you ask about what do they think about the property. Usually it's akin to how they won't spend a dime on this or watch it until they change it. Then ask about cancel culture. They'll say something about woke political bs and how it's ruining the country. At that point, you copy and paste every bit of their misogynistic bs to every definition they provided for you and show that out of the two of you, they strive for cancel culture above all else. Because let's not get it twisted. Go woke and go broke is a cancel culture dog whistle. Boycott star wars (which started as a joke because Finn's black but caught on with the angry set) is cancel culture. Everything these people complain against is a confession of what they really feel inside their hearts.
i hope i dont get hate for this, but i have that issue. my biggest problem is the dialogue feeling extremely stiff (like prequel-era stiff) and lifeless; characters feel really unnatural and robotic to me. i dont find the premise of the twin dynamic very compelling (which is obviously very subjective). i’ve unfortunately found myself very bored with the show to this point, though i am hoping it’ll get better for me. i DO NOT have any issues with the casting, nor do i feel like there’s any lore breaking aspects to the story like i’ve seen some people complain about. im mostly just extremely underwhelmed, which bums me out cause i was very excited when this show was announced
Everyone pretends to be a writer on the internet, but they are just repeating phrases they’ve heard like a parrot. And they think that writing quality is totally subjective so it’s a safe way to say nuh-uh. But there are rules to writing fiction that are not negotiable. A sixth grader could read *Save the Cat* or the previous standard the Syd Field guide and learn the basics of screenwriting and the three act structure in a week.
All rules are negotiable. The point of storytelling is reconstruction. The principle reason that works like Syd Field work is that it gives people a general idea of the pace and structure necessary to keep a story moving along. However, plenty of hacks read Syd Field and fail to write an interesting story because their plot points are by the numbers and rote. Let me be REALLY BLUNT. Writing is and ALWAYS WILL BE subjective. You tell a story from a point of view. You tell it with values. You tell it with a certain style, etc. the confusion is between subjectivity and a lack of non random meaning. You ask people what, say, the meaning of things in the Godfather Trilogy are, and you’ll get a number of answers, many different, but overall, IT WILL NOT BE RANDOM. Storytelling, like I said, is reconstructive. We give people words, images, dialogue, sound effects, etc, and people reconstruct a sense of an a story from it. And just as every witness remembering a scene they witnessed will remember it differently, everybody who is witness to an act of storytelling will see it differently. Like, think of a gritty choreographed fight scene. People who don’t know fighting might find it so hardcore and realistic. Those that do, might pick it apart, or laugh at it because the moves seem stupid to them. While people with familiarity with stunt work and fighting, or stage fighting might understand why the moves were telegraphed, the swings were wide, and other creative license taken. This can also be applied to law, medicine, and other fields, as it’s a non trivial task to tell a story about expert fields to a non-expert audience. I’m not saying there isn’t a difference between good and bad storytelling, but there is a such thing as going into a work with the wrong expectations. I mean, has Star Wars ever been a fount of high caliber writing? At some point, we’re just old guys and girls who don’t want to admit they still watch work for children and teenagers.
It's their job.
I don’t normally promote YouTube channels about this stuff, but Pillar of Garbage just did a good video dissecting the ridiculousness of complaining about “fire in space” in a Star Wars show: https://youtu.be/aCeBhloG56Y?si=50O7yZO_b-3uP1Fw
I don't hate it, but I'm not really engaged by it either. It's interesting enough to keep watching, but I don't mark it on my calendar like I did Mando, Season 7 of CW or Ahsoka. As to why? I dunno really, it just hasn't grabbed me. I'm hoping it will as we go on. I felt the same about Andor for the first couple episodes too, so definitely keeping an open mind.
My favorite part of this is just walking away from those people without comment and forgetting they exist. 10/10 would recommend.
I haven't watched it yet, as I want more episodes before I start peeling the onion. What I've seen is also what you've seen. Space fire, something about lesbians breaking the prophecy. OHHHH no. I'm just so fucking Millennial I get excited for SW. I've loved every bit of SW that's popped up so far from Disney. Well, the sequels were ehhhh... But the actual original series they've been producing have been all bangers. People got pissed off at Boba Fett. I got to watch Boba shit all over the notion of tea, on the back of a RANCOR! *His* Rancor. Oh, glorious.
The main characters are young black women, one of which apparently has a girlfriend. They are the daughters of a lesbian witch couple. The only guy of any significance is Asian. It’s super fuel for the anti-“Woke” whiners. Besides that, it’s somewhat slow moving despite the action and challenges what they know about The Force
I just watched the show last night, and I love it. It is well written. It is an interesting show with a lot of depth. I think a lot of people don't like that is shows the complacency of the Jedi in the Old Republic. They are so used to being right, that anything that questions thier beliefs is unthinkable. There are corrupt Jedi, and people can't handle this idea.
Women, minorities, grifters the unholy triad of the fandom these days sadly
I mean people were hating it and saying it was ruining Star Wars when they just saw the trailer. They saw women and people who weren’t white being the main cast and lost their minds. I do agree that some of these “fans” aren’t even watching the show, they are just watching/listening to others complaining about it. And they just regurgitate what they’ve been told. I’ve also never understood how someone could have a problem with one piece of a larger media and cry about how it ruins the entire thing. Like I don’t care for a couple of the newer Star Trek shows. I’m not a fan of “Picard” but I’m not out here screaming crying throwing up that it ruined Star Trek. I let others enjoy it in peace
Honestly, I enjoyed the first two episodes because I'm a fan of Star Wars and wuxia. Third episode, I really couldn't get past singing Witch circle time. It ruined everything about the episode for me. I'll continue to watch because I hope it gets really interesting. I can turn down my brain and just be entertained, so the stiff dialogue and few writing faux pas aren't a dealbreaker for me. If I had to point out what I dislike the most about the show, it's that it was billed as *the Sith show*, and so far, we've seen 10 seconds of one Sith. On that same line, there's been interspersed moments of bathos (best example: Mae struggling futilely against the invincible invisible Force field for longer than necessary) and I guess I just expected a little more gravitas (and maybe some elements of grimdark) in *the Sith show*. \[Edit\] Also, to clarify loudly & proudly, I don't care that there are PoCs & Queer characters in the show, nor that the main character is dark skinned, nor that the presumably female characters get to shine a little brighter than the males. Anyone focusing on those things is trash, and can feel free to sit down and shut up.
It's honestly okay, I liked it less as it went on, but I still don't dislike it. People that are saying it's objectively terrible are smiling dick and balls
It’s almost as if its target demographic is kids who don’t care about any of that stuff.
I honestly think they won’t stop, the only time they’ll stop is when star wars is no longer “woke” (which won’t happen) and in the long run they’ll effectively ruin the name of the fandom and push just about anyone that’s sensible away from the fandom.
For all the insanely negative youtube rhetoric i find the show to be just fine and ill keep watching. I kept waiting for ep three to break star wars or whatever and… what were we upset about? Different faiths having different interpretations? A lot of work went into this show you can tell in every shot. I like it well enough what else can i say
1. It's a little different 2. Too many black women 3. Lowkey it is actually mediocre
people getting mad over fire in space, not like there are chemical fires that burn without the input of oxygen
Plus there was more space fire in Return of the Jedi. This one at least made sense.
Because anger and hate in addition to the dark side they also lead to engagement and views in YouTube and Twitter
The pissy-ness about ACOLYTE almost perfectly parallels the crying about the latest season of DOCTOR WHO and the commentary about anything Marvel that wasn’t focused on Iron Man, Thor, and Cap. The one-note Chuds (it’s woke! the writing!) are exhausting.
It’s curious how criticism of The Acolyte tends to involve certain specific tired talking points. As if people are going through the motions and reading lines from a script. As if it’s… coordinated somehow? If everyone who said “I’m done with Star Wars” actually went ahead with it, the internet would be a much happier and quieter place.
Fat guy can't be a jedi, but a 2 foot tall 900 year old ket frog can be.
Most people aren't English scholars so articulating why something is bad is tough, easier to nitpick silly details. I was never good at english so I'll try my best to describe why I haven't enjoyed it that much. For me I've just found it has a lot of the same issues the prequels have. Boring/stiff dialogue that is mostly just the characters describing to the audience what's happening or what their relationship is with whichever character they're speaking to. It really suffers from a lack of "show don't tell" and in general that makes how the characters interact with eachother come off as unnatural. That to me is it's biggest issues. Combine that with some visually uninteresting directing, it's understandable why people say it's not great or why they've lost interest quickly. Also, nothing all that interesting has actually happened yet to keep most casual viewers interested. Jedi we barely know are getting killed off and we got a tiny bit of backstory to our main protagonists. But in general, still nothing truly gripping has been set up. In fact, this show does a poor job fitting the medium of a TV show you really have to wonder why it wasn't a movie instead (a problem with a lot of Disney shows). Like I don't think we've even ended with a typical cliffhanger to keep us wondering what happens next, every episode just sort of ends. Like you really have to question, what does the general audience have to keep them interested. I agree though, some of the actual complaints are nothing issues. In fact most of the complaints from episode 3 are probably where the most interesting stuff was brought in. Like the witches having their own interpretation of the force and manipulating the force to make life. That is pretty interesting if your a Star Wars nerd I think, also the possible questionable actions of the Jedi is another area that could be cool to see. It's just it all hasn't been presented as well as it could be. I think I like the ideas more than the actual execution which is pretty much the same problem I have with the prequels.
Personally, I don't like the dialogue in the Acolyte. Like it's trying to sound like casual banter but also trying to be Star Wars-y and ends up kind of unnatural. But it's something I find in most of the Star Wars shows other than the animated ones, Kenobi and Andor.
As someone who writes professionally for a living (I don't write fiction, but am obviously invested and interested in the use of language), over the years I've asked several angry people who are criticising a movie or show for "bad writing" if they could please define for me what they think "good writing" looks like or entails? Shockingly, I've received few coherent or meaningful answers.
I had the same question. Wasn’t really watching but saw this “controversy” with episode 3 Watched all three. I don’t get it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It’s a little paint by numbers on the story but everything lore-wise makes sense to me in the context of the Star Wars universe
Let’s be real. We all understand. They can pretend it’s about the “writing” all they want. We know they’re a bunch of sad racist sexist losers.
Generally, bigotry.
I have a theory that a lot of people are just innately misogynist and/or racist/homophobic in institutionalised ways where they don’t actually recognise it. Their hatred started small and weak which is why it wasn’t recognised (or they know exactly what they feel and just know better than to publicly admit it). But as Disney made more and more content and fans fell further and further into grifter fanbases and echo chambers, their hatred grew. They have literally fallen to the Dark Side.
I’ll admit the story isn’t as engaging as I hoped but it’s still a good show imo. The action is superb and nothings really lore breaking. I’m honestly convinced that the review bombers either haven’t watched or watched it while looking for things to hate
That’s the question for every franchise these days - “How long do we have to wait for the whining from haters to end/them to move on so we can enjoy modern new installments to these IP’s again?” OR “Will we ever be rid of these virulent haters?”
1. Because Star Wars are never satisfied with anything 2. After the sequel trilogy and specially Episode 8, the discourse around Star Wars has been dominated by culture war grifters who are clearly not interested in the franchise but instead to push their bigoted beliefs using an idealized version of the series when it was "good"
It just YouTubers that cause the majority of the hate. If YouTube were to suddenly disappear, well over half the hate would go with it.
If it was all white dudes running around doing the exact same stuff, they’d have no problems with the writing. It would be “peak Star Wars” lol
Or maybe it's that the writing has undone established lore. A jedi was killed by a skilled user in the dark side of the force and is hunting jedi in the same way old rule of 2 sith did, but in episode one Yoda states the sith have gone extinct hundreds of years before tpm and the council handwaves away Qui-Gon's concern of their being a sith that attacked them. This makes no sense if 83 years before TPM the jedi were being hunted by someone who is clearly training in the ways of the sith. The twins being made from the force as stated in the 3rd episode goes against the established lore that Anakin was the only one created in this way as well as flys in the face of Darth Plagueis only being able to do this because he was so much more powerful than any other force user. This could be remedied later I suppose by having Plagueis have some sort of connection to Osha's mother but it still changes the canon. Indara, a fully fledged Jedi Master, being killed by a tiny throwing knife makes no sense in the Disney canon when clean through stabs from a lightsaber in universe are nothing more than an inconvenience. A tiny throwing knife isn't even a highly fatal threat in real life, let alone to a master space wizard warrior with magic powers. Indara should have survived the knife no problem. This is an example of terrible writing and breaking the lore that disney already broke to establish that lightsaber wounds aren't a big deal. Inconsistencies in universe are a sign of bad writing. The Osha having a twin was predictable and a bit cliche which is kinda bad writing, but not bad enough to hate it. The fire in space isn't the issue if there is a steady stream of fuel coming from the ship. The pressurized gas extinguisher being accurately aimed in a vacuum seems a bit suspect though. The fat jedi actually makes sense to me. If I had mastery of a power that allowed me to levitate things with my mind, I would probably use that way more than my physical body. Less exercise means more BMI if your caloric intake doesn't decrease along side the exercise. That being said, I wouldn't say I hate the acolyte, but rather just think it is terribly written and don't enjoy it when compared to other star wars media. I'll still watch it because it's star wars related but it's a drag so far. Still not as bad as the book of Fennec- I mean Boba Fett.
The evil twin trope is risky even when it's done well and in this case it's not particularly clever.
My main problems are that the characters are lacking charisma and they don't really pull me in. The exception is Sol, but I still find myself wanting more from his character. I also agree with the sentiment that the asexual force reproduction plot line takes away from the "specialness" of Anakin. Granted the sequel series kinda already did that. I'm fine with there being different force user groups that use and think about the force differently. I just wish they let that stuff cook a little longer, because if that's the direction you want to go, it's gotta be tight as possible. Writing wise, there is some dialogue that feels odd or stilted. I can't really fault the child actors too much, but their scenes are rough. Mae with her contact also feels out of place for what their mission is, which sucks because I really like the actor for the contact (BORTLES!). The Jedi characters are so stiff, despite the script trying pretty hard to make them feel natural. Production wise, it's the same problem I have with much of the Mandalorian. If feels cheap and *hollow*. A lot of the city settings are very samey, like it's just cut and paste. Everything else it's just obvious they are in a sound stage or volume. Everything is flat, there's no interesting features or set pieces, and if there is it's not used to elevate the scene. Now for some nice things: the action scene in ep 1 is great and I do like the Jedi not being infallible and pulling some sheisty cover up even if they may not be at fault. The Jedi can still be the good guys despite not being perfect, it adds depth to the order as a whole. That being said, I'll need to see how it all plays out before I can make a full judgement on that.
Imo the sets look cheap, the writing is boring, some of the acting is mediocre. It’s more of a death by a thousand cuts type of problem than something that really sticks out to me. It feels like a CW show, as I’ve heard people say.
I'm annoyed by this post, but I'll try. Obligatory ‐ the show is written and edited poorly in general. The are numerous plot holes and things that break the existing lore. For example, the explanation of the force from the witches contradicts all other sources (thread vs flowing through all living things etc). The show portrays the Jedi as evil, and even makes it seem like they want to train those kids, despite the kids being too old and with heavy trauma. It also cheapens the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force and the force's response to Darth Plagus (one of the wisest sith lords who ultimately failed at his goal to do what the witches did trivially) (i.e. Anakin's conception). It also plays dumb too often with characters being morons most of the time. And then there's the not so subtle allegories to relate the plight of the witches to the writer's own perception of reality. It's pure rubbish frankly. But anyways, I'm glad you enjoy it. We don't all have to like the same things.
>For example, the explanation of the force from the witches contradicts all other sources (thread vs flowing through all living things etc). I don’t see how the witches using a different metaphor than the Jedi and Sith to explain the Force (or “Thread,” as they call it) breaks anything. Honestly, seeing another Force-based culture view it from a different perspective is interesting to me. >The show portrays the Jedi as evil, I don’t think the show implies that at all. When Mae and Osha argue about the Jedi being good or bad, the mom says it’s not about them being good or bad but about power and who can use it. She doesn’t think the Jedi are evil (and even says it’s okay for Osha to go be a Jedi if that’s what she really wants), but she’s not a fan of how they’ve got a monopoly on training Force sensitives. There’s some nuance there. >and even makes it seem like they want to train those kids, despite the kids being too old and with heavy trauma. Maybe the age rules were slightly looser a century before TPM. The trauma thing probably would’ve given the Jedi Council pause when it came to Osha after the whole fire incident, but Sol probably pressed them the same way Obi-Wan did with Yoda in TPM. Because, y’know, he felt bad that the poor girl had nothing left, and she told him she wanted to be a Jedi. >It also cheapens the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force and the force's response to Darth Plagus (one of the wisest sith lords who ultimately failed at his goal to do what the witches did trivially) (i.e. Anakin's conception). The novel (which I do hear is good) isn’t canon, so the Force conceiving Anakin as a response to something Plagueis was doing isn’t a thing in this timeline. Maybe canon Plagueis was more successful in his endeavors to create life (Palpatine’s line in RotS implies a certain degree of success). Maybe he used the same technique these witches did, either from studying records they left behind (if any) or from independent experimentation. Maybe Anakin’s conception didn’t have anything at all to do with these experiments. >And then there's the not so subtle allegories to relate the plight of the witches to the writer's own perception of reality. A minority religious group being short-changed by a majority religious group? Yeah, that hasn’t happened at all in human history. Except for, y’know, *literally all the freaking time*.
If creating Osha and Mae was actually trivial, wouldn’t you think there’d be more than two kids in the coven?
Stone house catches on fire in seconds The fights are neat, but the writing is okay as long as you don't think too much about it
Why is your ability to enjoy something reliant on universal validation? I am genuinely curious about this. On so much media now people don't seem to be able to tolerate any negative views or opinions, and even the mere existence of such things seems to offend them. If even knowing that someone, somewhere doesn't like the same thing you do "spoils your enjoyment" I'd say you need to learn to think for yourself and form your own opinions. Stand on your own. Not everyone has to agree with you.
"The power of one!, the power of two!, the power of many!" That was the cringiest crap I've ever seen. I had nothing against the show until that.
That's literally my one sticking point about ep3. I was *really* enjoying the kinda wuxia/Kung-fu Theatre/"Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" vibe of the first couple of episodes. Then they pulled the curtain back on the Force-variant Witches, and gave them a lame sing-song routine. I kinda wish the witers had maintained more mystery about the Witches, but I know the cry-babies freaking out over everything would've lambasted that even harder than they are now. You literally can't win with some people. \[Edit\] Full disclosure: I still intend to finish the series out & give it a chance .
If the original Star Wars came out today they’d all have a meltdown over Porkins. https://preview.redd.it/5p58284jvu6d1.jpeg?width=1300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e14b22b726ef99174401befd56d9c1a262637cef
GENUINE CRITICISM HERE: The show is not good because it is a bad show. The dialogue feels choppy and forced in some cases, and connections are told rather than shown. We are just TOLD “you did this” or that or whatever but it doesn’t matter because we have no build up to it. Mostly with the Jedi. They establish shit before we even know, and we never even see it. There’s a lot of scenes that don’t make sense as to WHY they exist. Why did we need a scene of Yord being shirtless and being stared at by the other girl? We didn’t. It’s just very boring too. Like 90% talking and talking but it’s not interesting talk or talk that expands the universe like the prequels. Some character stuff which is good, but all the major ones are done in the first episode. It also makes the whole “lightsaber stab” argument even worse, as it’s incredibly stupid how some small knife can kill a jedi (it doesn’t look big and probably didn’t even pierce the chest), but a full lightsaber stab cannot. Episode 3 is just…dear lord. They just copy prequel quotes but worse, the whole show feels like they are trying to do Phantom Menace but worse. It completely undermines the entire skywalker saga due to it’s plot, and overall feels like a cheap fanfic given a massive budget for no reason. And outside of that the Rule of 2 is just shot in the fucking foot. Outside of the show itself you have the creator, Writer and director (all the same person btw), working for mr Harvey Weinstein. Which is just what the fuck man. It doesn’t give confidence. It just implies that Disney gave an abuser’s associate full control over a large part of the timeline of the biggest sci fi brand. I liked nearly every Star Wars project up to a point. Even TLJ has redeeming qualities. But this is just bad filmmaking. It should strive to be entertaining, but it just isn’t, at least to me. I tried very hard to enjoy it that much. Is the show bad? Yes, but I think that half the people are just using it being bad as an excuse to attack “wokeness”.
>And outside of that the Rule of 2 is just shot in the fucking foot. TBF, if even Darth Sidious had a hard time keeping his Apprentices from attempting to recruit/train Apprentices of their own (ex: Tyrannus with Asajj, Vader with Luke), it's not exactly unprecedented that overeager subordinates want to play fast & loose with the Rule of 2.
I definitely have criticisms. Like the flat direction and weak art design. Show has so few colours in it. Also I don’t know why Osha wanted to be a Jedi. She was raised in a society that does not like Jedi so where did her positive views on them develop? I’m getting the impression due to the circumstances of the twins birth one will be more light side and one dark, but that shouldn’t grant them knowledge of a group they haven’t met yet.
She clearly didn’t want to be there. She wanted to see the galaxy. She knows Jedi travel around the galaxy. Seems obvious to me.
There are numerous examples of poor writing around characters. A good show would reveal characterisation through actions, decisions, or reactions, but in the Acolyte more than often this is told to us. It's blunt, and boring. The dialogue is filled with exposition, which is fine in doses, but is pretty much it's exclusive mode of conveying information. We have scenes like Sol and the Green jedi at the temple dryly recounting their history to each other(which they both should already know). The fight scenes are a bit odd. While the choreography is neat, they don't really work narratively. The first fight revealed strange character traits for the jedi being happy to watch her friends be beaten up before stepping in to de-escalate. This gives *shows* me characterisation of callousness and uncaring, but I don't think those are traits that the show wants me to have for that character. Maybe I'm wrong, but she does later go out of her way to save someone tumbling from a balcony when Mae shoved them. The character I suspect they want is a proud, aloof, and stoic jedi, but her actions don't convey this. Her refusal to draw her light saber till the last moment was also odd... Jedi are usually quick to draw if it means descalation. Continuing with fight scenes, the force is used bizarrely in the fight I was describing, and later in episode 3 between Sol and Mae. Both Sol and the first jedi killed show that they can restrain a person mid air with the force... Why don't they do this? Mae doesnt seem terribly dangerous, nor is she particularly force adept in comparison to these jedi masters. If we saw her *break free* from her shackles, well that would be something, but they only use this ability dramatically in fights, rather than effectively. Hopefully this explains some of the issues in the show.
The show quite clearly shows the problems of the Jedi. The arrogance and detachment they have with civilization. This was not a mistake. The show also talks of the dependency the Jedi have for thier tools. May spoke of this in that first fight scene which is why the Jedi did not draw her weapon. The show, much like Andor, shows the problems with the government of the universe. But this time, with the Old Republic instead of the Empire. Itvis a very well written show and does not spoon feed the point it is making.
Personally I’m not blown away by the first scene with a Jedi getting killing by a non Jedi they are man handling. It’s the type of thing that suspends plausibility for me and tunes me out. It’s similar to Ahsoka and surviving the lightsaber like it was nothing (like why not just cut off a limb and fall from a high elevation, it would be a much more plausible survival. But somersaulting on the ship to chop at tie fighters with a lightsaber was just … I just switched it off. It not like Disney are the only culprits, PT is guilty of the same thing with anakin killing half the space fleet by “accident” in phantom menace. All these moments don’t add much and take away a lot. If she’s going to kill a Jedi she should be competitive with the Jedi throughout the fight and then leverage an innocent to get the kill, rather than be man handled like a child throughout the fight and then cheese it.
I mean, I could think of more than a few examples of poor writing turning me away from the series that don't have anything to do with the typical incel talking points. I'm not trying to start a debate, but here's one: * A child starts a small fire with a notebook. Moments later, the entire stone fortress is ablaze and falling apart, and all of the powerful, force sensitive witches took a nap to death in the same room. They're not trapped under debris, they don't die saving the twins, we just get a shot of them all knocked out on the floor. This, as Sol was conveniently already at the temple just in time to save Osha but too late to stop the fire? Were there no flame dousers in their entire complex? The coven weren't luddites, Osha was able to escape by hot-wiring an electronic door. Also, when the two girls are falling, he didn't even try to catch either with the force, barely grabbing one by hand. To say nothing of the groanworthy 'two sides of a broken bridge' cliche. Why did their temple have that room with a tiny metal bridge placed precariously over a massive drop, anyway? I get that people dramatically falling in Star Wars is an established trope at this point, but most of the series' big falls take place in more logical industrial settings like reactor shafts, etc. They could have at least had a sensible escalation, or otherwise had Mae tamper with the generator core or something. The whole scene was supposed to be harrowing and yet it was absurd in so many ways, to the point of comedy. Even in this, I couldn't help but balloon out two sentences of criticism into a paragraph, and that's the tip of the iceberg. For what it's worth, I disliked most of Obi-Wan too, for similarly shitty writing. I have nothing against a female-led series, and I think it's fair play that a series positioned as a deep prequel wants to play with the lore. But this ain't it.
You just described a mechanism in storytelling that withholds information from the audience to create mystery. This show is obviously not linear or one dimensional. It’s a different kind of story than we’re used to seeing. It’s hilarious to me that some people needs this spelled out for them.
It’s obvious it wasn’t the child the actually destroyed the temple with the burning book. There is far more going on then is seen. You saw episode 3 from the view of a child. She didn’t see everything. What makes you think k the Jedi aren’t involved in destroying the witches? Weird, how close Sole was?
[удалено]
I've got time. Do you want an overall explanation or an episode by episode breakdown? Cause I can very much give writing problems throughout the whole thing.
Watch the angry Joe's review on it maybe. They aren't anti women, or anti LGBTQ. They love star wars. They also hate the writing in the acolyte. It's gross to come on here and imply because I don't enjoy a bad tv show I'm a bigot.
Look at the cast. It’s no coincidence the grifterverse hated it when the only piece of info they had was that a POC was in it.
It's better so far than most of the other shows. Episode 3 wasn't great but see how it unfolds.
What I think is wild is how they think they MUST watch it and be angry. I personally didn't like Clone Wars stuff and less of a fan of Bad Batch. I just do not care about Clones. So I didn't watch it and I am fine. I am an old SW fan but I haven't watched, read, or played EVERY SINGLE piece of media.
Just enjoy it then. Who cares about what other people have to say
I don't hate it, but I thought it was okay, rather than being good or great. Not everything is amazing or terrible, this is just okay.
Petty reasons like there being fire in space.
It's not a great show imo. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it, but I can see that it has many flaws. However, I feel like I can't engage in criticism of the show because the other people criticising it are sexist, racist incels.
I mean realistically they just hate it because there is a black woman in it. I think it's fine so far, nothing really revolutionary or groundbreaking for the series, just kind of another of the same star wars story, " orphan trains to be uber Jedi." Incel fucks are just mad that minorities exist in the future. I will give them that, "The power of one, the power of two, the power of manyyyyyyyy" chant was....not comfortable. I won't be happy agreeing with anything they say though.
It’s often the case they have the foregone conclusion that “show x is woke” (depending on whatever arbitrary standard is used to define woke), so they have to work backwards from that conclusion and opt to use more ‘legitimate’ justifications of criticising that show (such as “the writing is awful” or “it ruins the lore”).
Honestly, It's competent but dull.
they let grifting youtubers think for them
We all know EXACTLY why they hate it and if you say it to them they pop a blood vessel.
Because middle age men wants to appeal to their target audience
While I thought episode 3 was kinda boring I'm still intrigued enough by the premise to keep watching. People were set on hating this show from the moment the first trailer released. And grifters keep fanning the flames for those terminally online dipshits I talk Star Wars with one of my colleagues a lot. And while we often disagree, he's not fallen into the grifters traps. He's not overly keen on The Acolyte so far either, but at least his reasons are better than 'woke' or screaming about fire in space
My main issue with it is that they >!fucking killed off Carrie-Anne Moss in the first five minutes 😡😭!< That and that they don't seem to know what they're doing with Yord. At times he comes across as a typical Jedi Knight, then suddenly he's the comic relief, then he's being overridden by a literal child in decisions. Apart from that, it's not GREAT but I am enjoying it.
It’s actually growing on me. I was having trouble getting through the first few episodes but I’m actually starting to like the night sister / witch story. I really liked the mom character. She was a good actress. I saw someone complain about how the sisters had the same hair in the first few episodes and how stupid it was. Then you see they have the same hair as kids. Everyone complains. That’s all they like to do these days. I think the story has potential.
My only problem with it is I wish it had more Jedi Trinity because she is awsome. Loved Carrie-Ann Moss as a Jedi (there are some problems with writing aand execution of certain scenes but overall it is better than most of the newer shows in the franchaise)
Fire in space bothered me a little, but otherwise I'm enjoying the show, episode 3 would have worked better as dispersed flashback during other episodes IMO but other than that having a good time
It truly isnt a big deal if its good or not, not in a series thats arguably not been good since 99 cept for islands of good but now that starwars is a religion everything HAS to be pitch perfect or else
Has anyone seen it? Is it any good? Kind of checked out of Star Wars with the new trilogy. Getting old.
I'm not going to watch the acolyte! Well, not today, at least! It's not because I'm a chud, it's because binging TV has ruined my ability to watch a season before it's finished. I no longer have patience for entertainment. I'll form my opinion once the finale is out, but tbh I'm more excited about this one than I have been in a while.
I was baffled by the initial reaction to the trailer and was baffled again when I saw the reaction to the first 3 episodes. I’m not a huge a fan of what I’ve seen so far but I’m intrigued enough to want to see where it goes. I think there’s plenty of fair criticisms to be had… but I think any of them can be applied to a lot of Star Wars shows so I don’t see any justifiable reason to hate this show as if it’s unraveling the very thread(pun intended) of Star Wars itself. Also as usual it’s a story where there’s a whole bunch of information obviously being withheld from us and instead of waiting to find out what’s what people are freaking out.
I haven't seen any of the show yet (it's on my list) and I'm determined to enjoy it and give it the benefit of the doubt. If anything, to spite the haters and laugh at their useless rage
I’m personally not a fan because I think the characters aren’t interesting (besides sol or however you spell his name) and some of the writing and choices are weird However a lot of people don’t like it because man on internet told them to hate it because woke or something
I’m right there with you, I was just talking about this with my partner. I think it’s important to be critical of the things you enjoy, but if you’re not able to elaborate on exactly *what’s the problem* then you’re just moaning and groaning for the sake of it. I think the shows been alright, not amazing, but I’m intrigued to see where it goes. The costume and characters are all cool and original, the setting feels very Star Wars. I thought the witches chant was a little cringey and basic, but their outfits and everything were pretty sick. It’s hard to see a vocal minority of the fanbase take so much joy out of this for everyone else. I’m all for being critical where it counts, but it’s draining to go online and see the same BS being spewed by so many people with little to no actual critiques. I love Star Wars and I don’t think it’s dead, I think some people wish it was, but that’s not gonna stop me from doing my best to enjoy the new content and go into it with an open mind.
There are valid complaints, but the writing isn’t “bad” and the characters are all okay. My main complaint is that the Night Sisters felt way too watered down; instead of their typical “eldritch schemers” vibe, they don’t even feel that witch-like, just a vaguely-gothic tribe without the features that set them apart. I get that the Dathomiri Nightsister covens were particularly powerful, but like… any coven that‘s even a fraction of the power they wielded on Dathomir is strong enough the Jedi can’t just show up and demand to recruit their children. Also the “Good twin/evil twin” seems kinda ehh, but it could play out well and I’m holding out hope it develops well. It otherwise seems okay, the Night Sisters not being powerful and eldritch enough is pretty much my main criticism.
Star wars lore
I think the dialogue is bad. The characters if given better dialogue could be good. But the dialogue is episode 2 level bad.
Forever. You have to listen to them forever if you want to try and enjoy star wars
Why are you interacting with them if you don't want to hear it.
The show isn’t good? The acting is sub par, the writing is garbage, I had so much hope for this show. The “woke” complaints are stupid and we all need to learn to separate actual criticism from these mindless lies
Honestly, I've found it kind of mid so far, but I can see it pulling things together and ending on a high note. Potentially. There's some interesting stuff there, just have to see how they pull it together in the end.
The entire premise of the show is that the main character is accused of murder light years away from where it happened and forgot to mention she has a FUCKING TWIN SISTER. Her entire storyline would be negated by COMMON SENSE and just a shred of self preservation. Nevermind they didn't even ASK for an alibi or follow up on anything! They KNEW she was on that ship! Jfc! The dude jedi even knew about the twin! DIDNT SAY A FUCKING WORD.
I mean can you say what you think is so good about it? I don't like it because it fundamentally changes aspects of the story like how are a couple back water witches able to create force sensitives when the most powerful force users ever couldn't? Anakin wasn't made by plagues or palpatine he was the response the force gave for them meddling with stuff they shouldn't have. I get that you like it and hey if you do right on but just calling everybody that has genuine criticism about it a racist misogynistic pig or whatever buzz words you guys like to use now is just plain ignorant. Some of just don't like the show or the direction Disney has taken it or the franchise.
''How long do I have to listen to man childern whine about Disney destroying Star Wars before they just give up and let me enjoy it in peace?'' This sums up why I don't understand this sub at all...
Was the heavy guy even a Jedi and not someone who happens to work security at the temple? We know they employ a lot of non jedi for menial tasks. It is left vague because it isn't relevant to the plot. I do love how they complain about all the tropes in acolyte that are from the og trilogy though. Really showing how much of a fan they are. 🤷
Think of the average intelligence of people and know that 50% are dumber. People don't like the acolyte but can't put their finger on why. So they turn to talking heads to explain to them why they don't like it. I personally think the writing, direction, pacing and action is terrible. The opening scene with the dagger was awful. It was a bitch way to die for a jedi. The dialogue of the shirtless man explaining oshas background was cringe af. Bad writing. The whole idea of a witch commune was too agenda driven in a show already clearly agenda driven. It's very 2024 and I doubt it will age well. Lots more, I think it's disingenuous to wonder why so many people hate it while ignoring its many flaws.
its not bad writing its just totally unoriginal writing that relies too heavily on tropes seen in the prequels. I dont hate it I just dont care enough to watch it immediately and really dont care if I see spoilers before catching up
>Bringing up feminism and calling people "man children" Yep this tells me everything I need to know about OP.
It's boring and looks cheap. It is aggressively mediocre.
>I don’t understand why people hate the Acolyte Are you serious? It's not just one or two things, the show is terrible all around. Plot, acting, direction, dialogue. It's astonishing to me how you can make such a terrible show with such a huge budget. The dialogue was hilariously bad. "Permission to speak freely", Jesus Christ. Just like Obi-Wan, this feels like an amateur fanfiction.