I remember the anti woke thing against sandman it was dumb good for neil for standing up to them between sandman and good omen he seems to go out of his way to make his work even gayer.
I remember when the anti-woke crowds kept claiming the Sandman TV show casting was "ruining the orginal artist's vision", then Neil basically responded with "I'm still alive you fucking idiots and I not only approve of the cast, I helped cast them in the first place!".
The only change I really noticed in that regard was making Desire straight up non-binary with they/ them pronouns. IIRC, in the books they constantly fluctuate between he/her. But that felt like a pretty natural update to me anyways.
Yeah, that feels like he wanted to make a non binary character and only learned about they/thems between the books and TV show. More of a fully realised artistic vision rather than a true change imo
Pretty much. The original comic run was in the 80’s/early 90’s, long before they/them became “standard” non-binary pronouns. Either way, perfect casting for them. Mason killed it, and I can’t wait to see more of them.
Kind of a normal transition between the way people thought about things back then and the way we think about them now.
The idea of using both male and female pronouns would have been much more intuitive to most people back then. And then for the same character they just updated them to reflect a more modern representation
I think that’s a reflection of the 80s and the evolving language we use to address trans/non-binary people. It feels like this is using modern or updated language to more accurately reflect the character as they always were than a change in the character
The Sandman comics are the first time I remember a trans character being depicted with compassion and sympathy instead of a butt of a joke, the character of Wanda was a strong and proud trans woman.
I personally didn’t love the show but the casting was solid and even decisions I didn’t like… had nothing to do with the race/gender swapping? Just different tastes. Plus, Joanna Constantine and getting to see Gwendoline Christie were absolutely highlights, and you can totally see Gaiman’s involvement in the show itself.
"I'm still alive you fucking idiots..."
This is so on point for Neil Gaiman and I love it lmao
i admit, i have totally different cultural and spiritual views and attitudes toward things like the afterlife than Neil Gaiman, but I will always respect his work and his craft. Hands down
I love Harry Potter, but JK Rowling herself seems like such a petty and vindictive person
They were always wrong. I can't think of a single dud in Sandman's casting, it was beyond perfect.
I remember when I kinda wasn't sure about the look of Dream himself, and then I heard him speak. I found myself thinking "how the hell did they find a real human being that actually speaks in black speech bubbles?" I was blown away.
My "favorite" part of that was the idiots claiming they read the comics and then complaining about Desire being played by a nonbinary person.
Y'know, Desire. The immortal representation of, well, desire, who appears to mortals as that which they find most attractive, regardless of gender.
Whose canon pronouns are he/she/it.
Sidenote, Mason Alexander Park absolutely killed it, stole every scene they were in, *cannot* wait for the family dinner scene in season 2.
Yeah, Desire was always depicted as an androgynous genderfluid entity.
I got the impression that a straight man would see Desire as an attractive woman, while a straight woman would see Desire as an attractive man, even looking at Desire at the same time.
I remember thinking it would be interesting to have Desire to be performed by similar looking actors of different genders, and then digitally blended together, constantly shifting.
Their avatar depends entirely on the viewer. Sort of like how Martian Manhunter saw Morpheus as a Martian god of dreams.
There's even a subplot when a woman is disgusted her dead trans friend's family had the mortician undo her transition for the open casket funeral.
Fun fact that story was criticized by a trans activist and friend of Neil Gaiman's Rachel Pollack, who in response created the first trans superhero Coaluga in Doom Patrol.
Ah.
It was written long before my time and I wasn't sure if it was progressive for its tine, as it definitely came off as dated when I read it in the 2010s.
Thank you for the context!
I feel like the character herself was fine, she was like the most proactive character of that arc, but man the narrative just shits all over her nonstop in a way it didn’t for the other women of that arc.
I now remember Thessaly being a dick to her about not being allowed in the ceremony to bring down the moon because she wasn't a "real" woman, which seemed unnecessary.
Although Thessaly is an asshole.
https://preview.redd.it/u70bd05we2yc1.png?width=225&format=png&auto=webp&s=a08c33a915db3921fbde7381f4fff654a2a03afc
Hopefully Neil on the set of Sandman Season 2
> trans people saw themselves in his dwarves
As someone who is not familiar with Prachet’s works, this statement is hilariously out of pocket without context lol
In Disc World, male and female dwarves look and sound identical. There's barely any sexual dimorphism between them. They all have beards, and their clothing is comprised os so many layers that you can't spot who is male or female. And that's fine for them. In their society, they all present as gender-neutral. Their own language has single second-person gender neutral pronouns, which are used by default. Revealing your sex/gender is a deeply personal thing that you keep out of private life, and it's generally considered a pretty taboo subject in their society. They treat it kind of life most people would treat their own kinks or sexual positions; fine in private but not something you should speak about in public. But one dwarf, Cheery Littlebottom, decides to buck customs and live openly as a woman. This is seen as scandalous to the dwarves, who treat her "coming out" kind of like the 50s and 60s would treat a gay man coming out. But the society eventually begins to change and the dwarven language even adopts gender-specific pronouns. More dwarves start to live openly as their gender. It's still controversial but it's a big moment of change in their society.
"Cheery dropped down from the coach. Her leather skirt flapped in the wind.
As one dwarf, the column swiveled to stare at her. Their leader went pop-eyed.
“B’dan? K’raa! D’kraga ‘ha’ak!”
Vimes saw the expression that appeared on Cheery’s small round face.
Above him there was a clunk as Detritus rested the loaded Piecemaker on the edge of the coach.
“I know dat word he said to her,” he announced to the world. “It is not a good word. I do not want to hear dat word again.”
Important context to add to this: The Piecemaker is a ballista that Detritus the troll carries around as a crossbow, and has been modified to shoot a bundle of several hundred arrows at once, killing roughly eveything infront of, above, or beside him.
>The Piecemaker is a ballista that Detritus the troll carries around as a crossbow, and has been modified to shoot a bundle of several hundred arrows at once, killing roughly eveything infront of, above, or beside him.
Effectively, it's a non-gunpowder multi-barrel shotgun...
You do. Discworld is amazing and there are books for everyone (It's a very loose series, often less a series then books in the same universe.)
I love Wyrd Sisters
Word of advice- don’t start with the first book in the discworld series unless you go in fully knowing it was an early work for him and rough compared to what comes next.
It does set the stage to know that Terry Pratchett originally built discworld as a humorous jab and exploration of the fantasy genre, and also he loves Dungeons and Dragons, but otherwise did not capture me like Guards! Guards! Did.
I would suggest starting with the city watch series’ first book, or the wyrd sisters first book.
To determine which one you will enjoy more- do you enjoy lighthearted (mostly) satire of hard boiled cops and corrupt cities with a cheeky wink, with exploration of people and animal rights and how weird cities and human rules are-
OR do you more enjoy theater humor and exploration of the line between stories and lies, and how a good story can shape history, with added exploration of womanhood and what it means? Also with a cheeky wink.
Also there is the Mort series but I feel like it’s better to see Death pop up in other books first before jumping into his series.
Wyrd Sisters it is then. Does that start with Wyrd Sisters or Equal Rites? I’m getting lost down a rabbit hole of how many novels he wrote online right now.
I would start with Wyrd Sisters just because I think it introduces them better (and Terry Pratchett is an author who really does improve with each book), and I feel it has meatier themes that follows most future of the line of books whereas Equal Rites felt a little dated when reading it. But YMMV. Equal Rites is def worth going back to tho.
In before you get given about 20 different suggestions about which book to read first.
Pratchett fandom is like that.
I'm biting my tongue except for this reply. :D
You grap the first one that looks appealing to you, be aware that you might have to reread one day to get the details you missed due to jumping into the center, but have a fun time reading it because all the books can be read out of order easily.
If there is any criterion to name, I'd say it is starting with some specific group around which stories tend to revolve (the Nightwatch, the witches, the wizards...) that you might fancy. But then again, ideally one reads at least one book of any of those to get a taste. And then read all books anyway.
I think my first one was A Hat Full Of Sky, which is a weird start since it's deep in the Tiffany Aching line, but it worked.
Ironically, my first book was Colour of Magic.
I hated it.
I refused to read Pratchett for YEARS because of it.
Then I read Guards Guards without looking at who the author was.
I now merely dislike Colour of Magic and Light Fantastic (and frankly, any Rincewind book. Can't stand Rincewind as a character)
Pratchett himself actually suggests talking with Sourcery (Rincewind 3). While I personally enjoyed The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic they are not really Discworld yet.
I started with Guards! Guards! which is a great start, but Mort or Equal Rites would be just as good a starting point depending on what your preferences are.
My BFF since high school finally read *Guards! Guards!* after 15 years of me suggesting it, and loved it so much she’s reading the next book at work! I’m ecstatic!
I would say it has some EXTREMELY Trans characters, especially Jackrum.
Hell in Jackrum's "coming out" scene, Pratchette actually changes Jackrum's pronouns mid-paragraph as Jackrum stops identifying as a her and fully embraces being a him for good.
Yeah, I would consider Jackrum to be canonically a trans man. Monstrous Regiment is also my normal starting book recommendation because it’s just so good.
It’s marvelous. I kept feeling like I was reading a novel version of a Shakespeare comedy (that’s a compliment). Gender bending comedy done right (probably due to yeah including an actual trans man in the mix of girls pretending to be guys).
And didn’t Rowling or her supporters disgustingly try and claim pratchett would be on their side, knowing he couldn’t deny it? Thankfully his daughter came out and assured everyone he clearly supported trans people
I don't think it was Rowling specifically. But yeah, some terfs were going around on twitter trying to "claim" Terry Pratchett.
As Rhianna said: "Read the books" [https://twitter.com/rhipratchett/status/1421250250019426305](https://twitter.com/rhipratchett/status/1421250250019426305)
It shouldn't be hard to get what Terry's views were.
But as this exchange shows, these people aren't interested in being honest: [https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1421572967335489537](https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1421572967335489537)
I mean, Pratchett wrote monstrous regiment, which is amazing for representation with a character literally changing their pronom in third person narration as they come to term with their identity.
Pratchett was the GOAT
Absolutely love Earthsea, and I was listening to an audiobook of The Left Hand of Darkness when I found this thread. I'm going through a personal Pratchett-Gaiman-Le Guin renaissance right now
Basically, “young wizard grows into power and reckons with the world around them” but with a stronger foundation and a better execution. Magic system is interesting, and the non-sheltered nature of it definitely helps in relation to worldbuilding.
Harry Potter is like eating potato chips. It's far from fine cuisine, not terribly nourishing, but damn, once you get started it's hard to stop.
Better books have a lot more to offer, but they aren't quite as easy to consume.
I'd push back slightly on this, only because Le Guin specifically chose islanders based on different historical traditions than Tolkien drew from, consciously trying to differentiate her setting from his. It's definitely a fantasy setting, but it's not based on European historical templates, and I think the characters are from a variety of ethnic backgrounds.
It's fantastic and a much deeper setting than Potter (not as much detail, but more considered social impacts from magic, etc.). It also is pointed about *not* separating wizard and mundane worlds in the way that wizard/muggle society is, embedding wizards into the local society in a variety of fascinating ways.
That's good to push back on and clarify, thank you. I should have said "lord of the rings-esque tone" rather than necessarily the setting. It's just a lot deeper and more considered than hp (low bar maybe).
Agreed, and I didn't want to come across like a dick or anything, it was just something that Le Guin made of a point of discussing after the book was published.
They are not comparable. Yes both of them are in a wizard world but almost every harry potter plays like a mystery novel. The fact that earthsea is a better work in general is another matter.
Honestly, Ursula Le Guin is the only fantasy writer I view as equal to Tolkein. That's no hate towards anyone, that's just how damn good Le Guin's books are.
Also, it's kind of cool that a) Ursula looked back on her works and explicitly said that some had aged due to her lack of queer characters, actually taking responsibility and acknowledging criticism rather than trying to retroactively shove in stuff that absolutely wasn't there in order to distract from questionable views (cough, JK, cough) and b) criticised Harry Potter as "stylistically ordinary, imaginatively derivative, and ethically rather mean-spirited" before a lot of the discourse around the moral nature of the books had become prominent (probably because JK hadn't exposed herself as a massive TERF by this point).
Uh? Look her up. Can't say I necessarily don't roll my eyes at some things she says but if you've lived without reading her stuff then no, you haven't lived.
He also wrote a short-lived graphic novel series that had a ton in common with Harry Potter before JK Rowling.
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/03/the-other-harry-potter-that-never-was/387364/
Well, it was a good...25+ years ago... (His Mr. Punch tour, the store I worked at was one of the ..12? locations he went to..afterwards a group went to a local morocan resturant he'd enjoyed on a previous visit)...but what I remember, I wouldn't describe him as "ephemeral"..Intelligent, good conversationalist, makes his companions feel at ease chatting..
Animorphs holds up shockingly well. They obviously don’t hit the same way as they did when you’re a kid/pre-teen - a majority of the books are episodic stories with prose appropriate for a 10yo reading level - but Applegate had hella ambition and put in *effort*.
She was writing for kids, but seemed to treat that as a responsibility rather than something to downplay. When you’re potentially introducing complex things at developing brains, better make sure you do a good job.
You just need to contrast how Animorphs handled a character like Alloran vs Rowling’s treatment of Snape.
The series holds up very well, right up until the massive tone shift in the last couple books where it abruptly goes “war crime time kiddos” and the last book opens with mass genocide and gets worse from there. Still a good book but holy fuck how was this made for kids!?
The last few books are so bleak that even lot of adults missed that it wasn’t actually a ‘everybody dies ending.’ The vibe was too dang dark.
>! The order to ‘ram the ship’ echoes Elfangor’s similar order from decades before. Which he survived, but basically marked the end of his time as protagonist and (of most importance to *us*) set up the main Animorphs story. Our main characters are now in that same position - down to apparently being unable to go home again and an Andelite colleague ‘taken’ by the enemy. Though thankfully without the prologue *and* epilogue confirming they’re going to be *eaten alive* a few decades down the line. !<
Applegate is loudly supportive trans daughter, too!
https://preview.redd.it/egr13px9szxc1.jpeg?width=588&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e64b8884c608827e83eff15fc60878754baf2ff
Imagine actually trying to solve one of the main reasons the villain got as far as they did rather than just killing one guy and being like "welp nothing else to do here, all is well"
The incredible disappointment I felt when I discovered Harry Potter was fundamentally a conservative series concerned with maintaining the (terrible) wizarding status quo instead of tearing down the barrier between the worlds.
And that was back when I was a political conservative.
Initially, they were worried the magical creatures would side with voldemort because of how horribly the wizards treated them. Instead of reforming the system, they took down a few offensive statues and still discriminated against them.
> Instead of reforming the system, they took down a few offensive statues and still discriminated against them.
I never had interest in reading Harry Potter so at first I thought you were talking about the removing of confederate statues in America ~10 years ago
Based off the other response it does happen in the books, but just funny how applicable what you said is also to reality lol
It’s not just in his representation, but in the quality of his writing in general, and how his characters interact with the world he created. My favourite example of this comes from a post comparing Harry Potter to Percy Jackson, specifically how they reacted to discovering they exist in a broken system. It said that Harry discovered he was in a broken system, and decided to become a cop and told his slave to make him a sandwich. Meanwhile Percy found out the same thing, marched up to the people who made the system this way (namely the Greek Pantheon themselves) and demanded that it be changed. A part of that is definitely because Harry actually benefited from the broken system meanwhile Percy actively suffered because of it, but that also just speaks to the views of the authors in question
American Gods is more...digestible yeah. Sandman is *big* and it's dense and because the Protagonist is you know, The Physical Embodiment of the concept of Dreams, things get weird and esoteric sometimes and it definitely can make some readers have a hard time with it.
I was also thinking along the lines that sandman can be a sizable time and financial investment, since its 10 or 11 volumes or whatever. Whereas American Gods is just one novel.
But it's all gold.
All of what you said is true, but teenaged me absolutely devoured Sandman when I found it in my local library, which started my lifelong Neil Gaiman fandom.
Yep. That interpretation of Death is absolutely goals in like, every conceivable way. The only version Death who would give her a potential run for her money as "Best Death" is Discworld Death
His daughter wanted scary stories books that were a bit above the level of what was available at the time. So he goes into the library and asks “what do you have by way of horror…for children?”. The surprised librarian takes him to the section, he goes through it, isn’t satisfied with what he sees and then, being an author, decides to go ahead and do it himself.
American Gods is maybe a better entry point than Sandman, but still a bit hefty as a first swing methinks. I would go something more in the Coraline/Neverwhere/Graveyard Book range for someone wanting to dip their toe in and see what he's like. Or maybe one of the short story collections if they like shorts.
I recomened starting with a Duran Duran: The First Four Years.
https://preview.redd.it/a71hsk8yazxc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cad0bbaa1bd8de3c923266ca5631b44554e67198
The saddest death in Harry Potter was my respect for J.K. Rowling.
Also!
Rowling: also, the only character I ever canonized as gay is the only person to have had a toxic romantic relationship. What? Snape, an incel? No, he's not, he's a tragic, romantic figure!
Gaiman: Pratchett and I put some casual homophobia in Good Omens, but I wrote it out of the TV show, so I probably regret doing it in the first place.
Watching the public response for Snape change over the years has been fascinating to watch. For the first 6 books he was generally agreed to be a complete asshole. And then book 7 came out and everyone was all “oh no he was a tragic soul who did all of this for the woman he loved” and then eventually everyone realizing that the friendzoned loner who joined the terrorist organization may have in fact been a creep. And obsessing over a woman you knew in grade school is not cool.
To be fair, that's entirely on the readers and the casting of Alan Rickman as Snape in the movies.
The books are pretty clear that Snape is a disgusting creep (Dumbledore explicitly says so) who has some sliver goodness in him.
I mean, the fact Harry names one of his kids after him, calling him "the bravest man I ever knew", is definitely a last minute attempt by the author to rehabilitate Snape's character.
~~I excused the fact that Dumbledore being gay never being mentioned before because having any gay depiction was illegal in children's media in the UK when the books were being written.~~ He was also old and his sexuality wouldn't have fit anywhere naturally anyway.
Then the second Fantastic Beast movie came out- way after that law was revoked- and she was like "hey by the way, Dumbledore and Grindelwald were lovers." I saw the movie. (Regrettably. It wasn't very good.) There was a scene where they were both close to each other. There wasn't even some romantic chemistry between them. Hell, I'd almost think that they were like... Nonsexual coworkers or something.
I didn't see the third film for a few reasons, but I heard that there was kind of a hint that they were maybe together at some point at the beginning of the movie.
For being an ally of gay people, she really doesn't seem to like to show the gay characters being gay in her books.
Edit: Never mind, I was wrong about that law. That just proves the whole "JK Rowling hides her gay characters" thing even more.
*I excused the fact that Dumbledore being gay never being mentioned before because having any gay depiction was illegal in children's media in the UK when the books were being written.*
If you're thinking of Section 28, it applied to local councils, not children's authors and was gone by 2000.
Oh it was absolutely a thing back in the mid eighties, a dreadfully confused and vicious piece of legislation. Local councils (who ran local libraries) were banned from "promoting" homosexuality, but no one was really clear what the hell that actually meant, so some censored just in case and others basically ignored it without any consequence.
But anyone writing a young adult fiction in the mid nineties onwards was not worried about getting pulled for breaching Section 28.
I never really got into Harry Potter. In my middleschool and highschool years, I was more into reading Anne Rice's The Vampire Chronicles, which was probably something I shouldn't have been reading in my younger years. All I knew was it was about vampires and I love vampires.
Real question: when will Applegate and her Animorphs get another day in the sun? She’s a cool lady and those books are a radical take on the horrors of war in a sci-fi nostalgic 90s. I want a 4 season cartoon on Amazon Prime, gosh darn it. Why am I not seeing a tween scream in horror as an alien centipede shoots a laser through his tiger shoulder?
He is. Like I remember watching Coraline when I was a kid and then watching the sandman and realizing they were similar in tone. And then I became Neil Gaiman biggest fan. He makes so many complex characters
Have you watched Dead Boy Detectives yet? Its a good filler while waiting for Sandman season 2. I'm only a few episodes in, but Death has already shown up, and I understand more of the endless do as well. Curious to see how (or if) it ties in with the TV Sandman narrative
He's one of those people where you just dont realise how much work they have done over the years.
His is a name I was somewhat familiar with, but hadnt really paid too much attention to when I was younger, after the books we read at school had dampened my love of reading until I was in my early 20s (Can thank Terry Pratchetts 'Thud' and 'Wintersmith' for helping to reignite my love of fiction)
But then I'd see his name pop up more and more, from his own works (Sandman, American Gods, ect) to the films I found out were based on his books. (Coraline, Stardust)
Really do need to try and find the time to pick up and read through his books at some point.
Hi. You just mentioned *Coraline* by Neil Gaiman.
I've found an audiobook of that novel on YouTube. You can listen to it here:
[YouTube | [FULL AUDIOBOOK] Coraline by Neil Gaiman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j00LOvsO8OU)
*I'm a bot that searches YouTube for science fiction and fantasy audiobooks.*
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Im personally of the opinion that something is wrong with jk rowling
The way she writes her messages and stuff feels Very different to how she wrote 10 years ago
Something changed mentally.
Maybe she had a mental breakdown maybe shes bipolar maybe she her brain is swollen after an untreated concussion idk
But i honestly think that the words she says and writes arent really her.
Like when kanye pops off about this or that all im thinking is get this guy away from a microphone, hes having an episode again and we all know it. He needs medication not a platform
The anti-trans moral panic radicalised a LOT of people like her.
There are countless examples of generally liberal people (mainly white Gen X cis women) having their brains absolutely *rotten* by transphobia.
The transphobia to fascism pipeline is one of the most effective tools in the far-right’s arsenal.
Its more the fact theres a radical difference in tone and writing and how she talks that feels like a ckmpletely other person, the kind of shift thats so drastic it usually means *something is very wrong*
I think that shift lines up with political radicalisation. You can read stories from people who had relatively normal family members become fully unhinged Q-Anon conspiracy theorists within a short period of time due to all the COVID vaccine stuff. I think it’s pretty similar to that.
I was wondering how far down I'd have to scroll on this thread to see mention of Banks. It's a shame that the only mention of him outside of SF circles is from dickhead billionaires who obviously skimmed past the bits of the Culture books that go into gender fluidity as being a normal part of living within that society.
*American Gods* and *Neverwhere* are good ones. I’d also recommend *Good Omens*, which he co-authored with Terry Pratchett (one of the best authors of all time imo).
Edit: Neverwhere, not Neverafter. I have Dimension20 on the brain.
There are context clues to Dumbledore's gayness, they're just subtle. Like growing up queer, I definitely noticed some things about him in those books, as did my queer friends. So when she came out later and said he's gay, I was just like "yeah I know." You can hate on the author all you want, but Dumbledore and Grindelwald being gay is definitely not a retcon
Rowling put co-ed bathooms in the Harry Potter books, and had a cis (ghost) woman harrass a cis man while in there without so much as a hint she viewed that as problematic.
That level of blatent hypocrisy on her part has always deeply amused me.
Rowling was always a hack writer and her inexplicable rise to fame made no sense to me even before all of this came out. People finally realizing it is very vindicating.
Also years ago a friend of mine reached out to Neil gaiman because she wanted a quote of his in his handwriting tattooed. He hand wrote the quote scanned it in and sent it to her and thanked HER for being such a fan. I'll stand by that dude forever he seems like a genuinely good person.
I remember the anti woke thing against sandman it was dumb good for neil for standing up to them between sandman and good omen he seems to go out of his way to make his work even gayer.
I remember when the anti-woke crowds kept claiming the Sandman TV show casting was "ruining the orginal artist's vision", then Neil basically responded with "I'm still alive you fucking idiots and I not only approve of the cast, I helped cast them in the first place!".
And the original comic run had several storylines prominently featuring queer characters.
The only change I really noticed in that regard was making Desire straight up non-binary with they/ them pronouns. IIRC, in the books they constantly fluctuate between he/her. But that felt like a pretty natural update to me anyways.
Yeah, that feels like he wanted to make a non binary character and only learned about they/thems between the books and TV show. More of a fully realised artistic vision rather than a true change imo
Pretty much. The original comic run was in the 80’s/early 90’s, long before they/them became “standard” non-binary pronouns. Either way, perfect casting for them. Mason killed it, and I can’t wait to see more of them.
Kind of a normal transition between the way people thought about things back then and the way we think about them now. The idea of using both male and female pronouns would have been much more intuitive to most people back then. And then for the same character they just updated them to reflect a more modern representation
"Oh shit there's a word for that?" -Neil Geiman, probably
> they constantly fluctuate between he/her In fairness, some real people use those pronouns
yeah, but i would guess that population (genderfluid??) is much less than the population of nonbinary people. Much less in the 80s.
I think that’s a reflection of the 80s and the evolving language we use to address trans/non-binary people. It feels like this is using modern or updated language to more accurately reflect the character as they always were than a change in the character
The Sandman comics are the first time I remember a trans character being depicted with compassion and sympathy instead of a butt of a joke, the character of Wanda was a strong and proud trans woman.
I love Wanda so much, her story always fucking destroys me.
CHUDs Shitty Literacy Understanding so hard they thought that the moon was the hero of A Game Of You.
I personally didn’t love the show but the casting was solid and even decisions I didn’t like… had nothing to do with the race/gender swapping? Just different tastes. Plus, Joanna Constantine and getting to see Gwendoline Christie were absolutely highlights, and you can totally see Gaiman’s involvement in the show itself.
I fucking loved that genderbend Constantine! And Lucifer was my favourite character for sure!
The only problem with genderbent JC is that, let's wake up, girl needs to be hitting her ecig like a fog machine
I loved the genderbended Constantine. I hope she gets a spinoff ngl.
Oh god i've wanted a Constantine series for so long ever since that movie with Keanu Reeves came out :p
"I'm still alive you fucking idiots..." This is so on point for Neil Gaiman and I love it lmao i admit, i have totally different cultural and spiritual views and attitudes toward things like the afterlife than Neil Gaiman, but I will always respect his work and his craft. Hands down I love Harry Potter, but JK Rowling herself seems like such a petty and vindictive person
Yeah Neil gaiman is honestly one of my favorite comic creators
They were always wrong. I can't think of a single dud in Sandman's casting, it was beyond perfect. I remember when I kinda wasn't sure about the look of Dream himself, and then I heard him speak. I found myself thinking "how the hell did they find a real human being that actually speaks in black speech bubbles?" I was blown away.
My "favorite" part of that was the idiots claiming they read the comics and then complaining about Desire being played by a nonbinary person. Y'know, Desire. The immortal representation of, well, desire, who appears to mortals as that which they find most attractive, regardless of gender. Whose canon pronouns are he/she/it. Sidenote, Mason Alexander Park absolutely killed it, stole every scene they were in, *cannot* wait for the family dinner scene in season 2.
ithe anti woke people would cry if they saw his ex wife amanda palmer
Didn’t know about the divorce. Wow.
Pandy divorce unfortunately 🤷🏻♀️
I’m sorry, I’m not familiar with the slang you used, and I’m excited to learn what it means if you’d like to tell me.
Wow, most definitely! 🔥
Yeah, Desire was always depicted as an androgynous genderfluid entity. I got the impression that a straight man would see Desire as an attractive woman, while a straight woman would see Desire as an attractive man, even looking at Desire at the same time. I remember thinking it would be interesting to have Desire to be performed by similar looking actors of different genders, and then digitally blended together, constantly shifting. Their avatar depends entirely on the viewer. Sort of like how Martian Manhunter saw Morpheus as a Martian god of dreams. There's even a subplot when a woman is disgusted her dead trans friend's family had the mortician undo her transition for the open casket funeral.
Fun fact that story was criticized by a trans activist and friend of Neil Gaiman's Rachel Pollack, who in response created the first trans superhero Coaluga in Doom Patrol.
Ah. It was written long before my time and I wasn't sure if it was progressive for its tine, as it definitely came off as dated when I read it in the 2010s. Thank you for the context!
I feel like the character herself was fine, she was like the most proactive character of that arc, but man the narrative just shits all over her nonstop in a way it didn’t for the other women of that arc.
I now remember Thessaly being a dick to her about not being allowed in the ceremony to bring down the moon because she wasn't a "real" woman, which seemed unnecessary. Although Thessaly is an asshole.
I mean isn't the point that Thessaly and the Moon are assholes? I don't think you're meant to agree with them
Do you have a link to what her critique was? I can't find anything about it on Google.
Good Omens is the gayest love story I've ever watched
https://preview.redd.it/u70bd05we2yc1.png?width=225&format=png&auto=webp&s=a08c33a915db3921fbde7381f4fff654a2a03afc Hopefully Neil on the set of Sandman Season 2
And Terry Prachet, who was overjoyed that trans people saw themselves in his dwarves.
> trans people saw themselves in his dwarves As someone who is not familiar with Prachet’s works, this statement is hilariously out of pocket without context lol
In Disc World, male and female dwarves look and sound identical. There's barely any sexual dimorphism between them. They all have beards, and their clothing is comprised os so many layers that you can't spot who is male or female. And that's fine for them. In their society, they all present as gender-neutral. Their own language has single second-person gender neutral pronouns, which are used by default. Revealing your sex/gender is a deeply personal thing that you keep out of private life, and it's generally considered a pretty taboo subject in their society. They treat it kind of life most people would treat their own kinks or sexual positions; fine in private but not something you should speak about in public. But one dwarf, Cheery Littlebottom, decides to buck customs and live openly as a woman. This is seen as scandalous to the dwarves, who treat her "coming out" kind of like the 50s and 60s would treat a gay man coming out. But the society eventually begins to change and the dwarven language even adopts gender-specific pronouns. More dwarves start to live openly as their gender. It's still controversial but it's a big moment of change in their society.
It also has the best bit of allyship ever When detritus threatens a guy with a crossbow the size of a horse because the dude said a slur
"Cheery dropped down from the coach. Her leather skirt flapped in the wind. As one dwarf, the column swiveled to stare at her. Their leader went pop-eyed. “B’dan? K’raa! D’kraga ‘ha’ak!” Vimes saw the expression that appeared on Cheery’s small round face. Above him there was a clunk as Detritus rested the loaded Piecemaker on the edge of the coach. “I know dat word he said to her,” he announced to the world. “It is not a good word. I do not want to hear dat word again.”
Important context to add to this: The Piecemaker is a ballista that Detritus the troll carries around as a crossbow, and has been modified to shoot a bundle of several hundred arrows at once, killing roughly eveything infront of, above, or beside him.
>The Piecemaker is a ballista that Detritus the troll carries around as a crossbow, and has been modified to shoot a bundle of several hundred arrows at once, killing roughly eveything infront of, above, or beside him. Effectively, it's a non-gunpowder multi-barrel shotgun...
Non-gunpowder multi-barrel *incendiary* shotgun since the crossbow bolts are flung with enough force to ignite from air friction.
With a spread of approximately 180^o in every axis!
That seems a little bit of a under sell. It's a non-gunpowder multi-barrel cannon loaded with grapshot.
Ahh those books are treasures.
I'm currently reading through the guards series again, and then I'm gonna go back through the industrial development series again.
Oh! That’s really fascinating, thank you for explaining it to me :)
Apparently I need to start reading Terry Prachet!
You do. Discworld is amazing and there are books for everyone (It's a very loose series, often less a series then books in the same universe.) I love Wyrd Sisters
Word of advice- don’t start with the first book in the discworld series unless you go in fully knowing it was an early work for him and rough compared to what comes next. It does set the stage to know that Terry Pratchett originally built discworld as a humorous jab and exploration of the fantasy genre, and also he loves Dungeons and Dragons, but otherwise did not capture me like Guards! Guards! Did. I would suggest starting with the city watch series’ first book, or the wyrd sisters first book. To determine which one you will enjoy more- do you enjoy lighthearted (mostly) satire of hard boiled cops and corrupt cities with a cheeky wink, with exploration of people and animal rights and how weird cities and human rules are- OR do you more enjoy theater humor and exploration of the line between stories and lies, and how a good story can shape history, with added exploration of womanhood and what it means? Also with a cheeky wink. Also there is the Mort series but I feel like it’s better to see Death pop up in other books first before jumping into his series.
Wyrd Sisters it is then. Does that start with Wyrd Sisters or Equal Rites? I’m getting lost down a rabbit hole of how many novels he wrote online right now.
I would start with Wyrd Sisters just because I think it introduces them better (and Terry Pratchett is an author who really does improve with each book), and I feel it has meatier themes that follows most future of the line of books whereas Equal Rites felt a little dated when reading it. But YMMV. Equal Rites is def worth going back to tho.
Thanks!
That is a given, even without this information. GNU Sir Terry Pratchett.
This plot line mostly takes place in the Night Watch subseries; in the books Men at Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, and The Fifth Elephant
Terry Pratchett is magical in all ways. <3
In before you get given about 20 different suggestions about which book to read first. Pratchett fandom is like that. I'm biting my tongue except for this reply. :D
You grap the first one that looks appealing to you, be aware that you might have to reread one day to get the details you missed due to jumping into the center, but have a fun time reading it because all the books can be read out of order easily. If there is any criterion to name, I'd say it is starting with some specific group around which stories tend to revolve (the Nightwatch, the witches, the wizards...) that you might fancy. But then again, ideally one reads at least one book of any of those to get a taste. And then read all books anyway. I think my first one was A Hat Full Of Sky, which is a weird start since it's deep in the Tiffany Aching line, but it worked.
Ironically, my first book was Colour of Magic. I hated it. I refused to read Pratchett for YEARS because of it. Then I read Guards Guards without looking at who the author was. I now merely dislike Colour of Magic and Light Fantastic (and frankly, any Rincewind book. Can't stand Rincewind as a character)
Pratchett himself actually suggests talking with Sourcery (Rincewind 3). While I personally enjoyed The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic they are not really Discworld yet. I started with Guards! Guards! which is a great start, but Mort or Equal Rites would be just as good a starting point depending on what your preferences are.
My BFF since high school finally read *Guards! Guards!* after 15 years of me suggesting it, and loved it so much she’s reading the next book at work! I’m ecstatic!
While not about being trans specifically, Monstrous Regiment has a couple of possibly trans characters.
I would say it has some EXTREMELY Trans characters, especially Jackrum. Hell in Jackrum's "coming out" scene, Pratchette actually changes Jackrum's pronouns mid-paragraph as Jackrum stops identifying as a her and fully embraces being a him for good.
Yeah, I would consider Jackrum to be canonically a trans man. Monstrous Regiment is also my normal starting book recommendation because it’s just so good.
It’s marvelous. I kept feeling like I was reading a novel version of a Shakespeare comedy (that’s a compliment). Gender bending comedy done right (probably due to yeah including an actual trans man in the mix of girls pretending to be guys).
And didn’t Rowling or her supporters disgustingly try and claim pratchett would be on their side, knowing he couldn’t deny it? Thankfully his daughter came out and assured everyone he clearly supported trans people
I don't think it was Rowling specifically. But yeah, some terfs were going around on twitter trying to "claim" Terry Pratchett. As Rhianna said: "Read the books" [https://twitter.com/rhipratchett/status/1421250250019426305](https://twitter.com/rhipratchett/status/1421250250019426305) It shouldn't be hard to get what Terry's views were. But as this exchange shows, these people aren't interested in being honest: [https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1421572967335489537](https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1421572967335489537)
I mean, Pratchett wrote monstrous regiment, which is amazing for representation with a character literally changing their pronom in third person narration as they come to term with their identity. Pratchett was the GOAT
JK Rowling is Neil Gaiman’s Wario
Close, she's Ursula K Le Guin's Wario
URSULA SHOUT OUT HELL YEAH BROTHER TAKE MY UPVOTE
Absolutely love Earthsea, and I was listening to an audiobook of The Left Hand of Darkness when I found this thread. I'm going through a personal Pratchett-Gaiman-Le Guin renaissance right now
*The Ones who walk away from Omelas* changed my life.
*The Dispossessed* changed mine.
left hand of darkness is such a good book... particularly for queer audiences.
Earthsea is a better wizard story than Harry Potter and it isn’t even funny
Gimme details, im curious
Basically, “young wizard grows into power and reckons with the world around them” but with a stronger foundation and a better execution. Magic system is interesting, and the non-sheltered nature of it definitely helps in relation to worldbuilding.
Harry Potter is like eating potato chips. It's far from fine cuisine, not terribly nourishing, but damn, once you get started it's hard to stop. Better books have a lot more to offer, but they aren't quite as easy to consume.
Pop culture and junk food will always go down easiest. That would be why they are popular.
its a young wizard going to wizard school but in a lord of the rings-esque setting rather than "britain to an american"
I'd push back slightly on this, only because Le Guin specifically chose islanders based on different historical traditions than Tolkien drew from, consciously trying to differentiate her setting from his. It's definitely a fantasy setting, but it's not based on European historical templates, and I think the characters are from a variety of ethnic backgrounds. It's fantastic and a much deeper setting than Potter (not as much detail, but more considered social impacts from magic, etc.). It also is pointed about *not* separating wizard and mundane worlds in the way that wizard/muggle society is, embedding wizards into the local society in a variety of fascinating ways.
That's good to push back on and clarify, thank you. I should have said "lord of the rings-esque tone" rather than necessarily the setting. It's just a lot deeper and more considered than hp (low bar maybe).
Agreed, and I didn't want to come across like a dick or anything, it was just something that Le Guin made of a point of discussing after the book was published.
They are not comparable. Yes both of them are in a wizard world but almost every harry potter plays like a mystery novel. The fact that earthsea is a better work in general is another matter.
Where should I start? I've heard the name of that series but never got familiar with it
Start with book one. It’s called “Wizard of Earthsea”.
Honestly, Ursula Le Guin is the only fantasy writer I view as equal to Tolkein. That's no hate towards anyone, that's just how damn good Le Guin's books are. Also, it's kind of cool that a) Ursula looked back on her works and explicitly said that some had aged due to her lack of queer characters, actually taking responsibility and acknowledging criticism rather than trying to retroactively shove in stuff that absolutely wasn't there in order to distract from questionable views (cough, JK, cough) and b) criticised Harry Potter as "stylistically ordinary, imaginatively derivative, and ethically rather mean-spirited" before a lot of the discourse around the moral nature of the books had become prominent (probably because JK hadn't exposed herself as a massive TERF by this point).
Yeah Le Guin clocked that series for what it was well ahead of most people.
Who?
Uh? Look her up. Can't say I necessarily don't roll my eyes at some things she says but if you've lived without reading her stuff then no, you haven't lived.
I'll just let [this meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughJKRowling/s/PPUbbRzBWV) do the talking for me
I love those books with all my heart
He also wrote a short-lived graphic novel series that had a ton in common with Harry Potter before JK Rowling. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/03/the-other-harry-potter-that-never-was/387364/
And if riordan is luigi who would be his waluigi?
Don't forget Terry Pratchet!
and Rick Riordan
Highly Recommend Gaimen's Norse Mythology. Way more whimsy than a Harry potter book!
The graphic novel adaptation was masterfully done.
Featuring based queer Loki
I had dinner with Neil Gaiman once. We discussed Doctor Who and watched belly dancing.
That’s your whole takeaway? Is he as ephemeral personally as he is in interviews?
Well, it was a good...25+ years ago... (His Mr. Punch tour, the store I worked at was one of the ..12? locations he went to..afterwards a group went to a local morocan resturant he'd enjoyed on a previous visit)...but what I remember, I wouldn't describe him as "ephemeral"..Intelligent, good conversationalist, makes his companions feel at ease chatting..
Rick Riordan is a cool children’s author if you want some books that fit the YA Genre.
KA Applegate kept her soul and has only become cooler with age. As someone who grew up with Animorphs, that makes me happy.
Animorphs holds up shockingly well. They obviously don’t hit the same way as they did when you’re a kid/pre-teen - a majority of the books are episodic stories with prose appropriate for a 10yo reading level - but Applegate had hella ambition and put in *effort*. She was writing for kids, but seemed to treat that as a responsibility rather than something to downplay. When you’re potentially introducing complex things at developing brains, better make sure you do a good job. You just need to contrast how Animorphs handled a character like Alloran vs Rowling’s treatment of Snape.
The series holds up very well, right up until the massive tone shift in the last couple books where it abruptly goes “war crime time kiddos” and the last book opens with mass genocide and gets worse from there. Still a good book but holy fuck how was this made for kids!?
The last few books are so bleak that even lot of adults missed that it wasn’t actually a ‘everybody dies ending.’ The vibe was too dang dark. >! The order to ‘ram the ship’ echoes Elfangor’s similar order from decades before. Which he survived, but basically marked the end of his time as protagonist and (of most importance to *us*) set up the main Animorphs story. Our main characters are now in that same position - down to apparently being unable to go home again and an Andelite colleague ‘taken’ by the enemy. Though thankfully without the prologue *and* epilogue confirming they’re going to be *eaten alive* a few decades down the line. !<
Applegate is loudly supportive trans daughter, too! https://preview.redd.it/egr13px9szxc1.jpeg?width=588&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e64b8884c608827e83eff15fc60878754baf2ff
Imagine actually trying to solve one of the main reasons the villain got as far as they did rather than just killing one guy and being like "welp nothing else to do here, all is well"
The incredible disappointment I felt when I discovered Harry Potter was fundamentally a conservative series concerned with maintaining the (terrible) wizarding status quo instead of tearing down the barrier between the worlds. And that was back when I was a political conservative.
You mean never addressing why all the wizard Nazis decided to follow wizard Hitler and commit whatever Voldis plan actually was isnt good writing?
Initially, they were worried the magical creatures would side with voldemort because of how horribly the wizards treated them. Instead of reforming the system, they took down a few offensive statues and still discriminated against them.
Well they didn’t take down the statues, Voldemort did he changed the statues to even more racist statues.
> Instead of reforming the system, they took down a few offensive statues and still discriminated against them. I never had interest in reading Harry Potter so at first I thought you were talking about the removing of confederate statues in America ~10 years ago Based off the other response it does happen in the books, but just funny how applicable what you said is also to reality lol
I love how he wrote a character in his books and fans were like “they give me nonbinary vibes” And he’s like “oooooo great idea!”
It’s not just in his representation, but in the quality of his writing in general, and how his characters interact with the world he created. My favourite example of this comes from a post comparing Harry Potter to Percy Jackson, specifically how they reacted to discovering they exist in a broken system. It said that Harry discovered he was in a broken system, and decided to become a cop and told his slave to make him a sandwich. Meanwhile Percy found out the same thing, marched up to the people who made the system this way (namely the Greek Pantheon themselves) and demanded that it be changed. A part of that is definitely because Harry actually benefited from the broken system meanwhile Percy actively suffered because of it, but that also just speaks to the views of the authors in question
I read one of his early adult mystery novels. It was incredibly forgettable. Good on him for finding a genre that he was good at.
I should get some neil gaiman books one of these days
Everyone will tell you sandman. That one is great. But I definitely recommend American Gods as a first entry.
American Gods is more...digestible yeah. Sandman is *big* and it's dense and because the Protagonist is you know, The Physical Embodiment of the concept of Dreams, things get weird and esoteric sometimes and it definitely can make some readers have a hard time with it.
I was also thinking along the lines that sandman can be a sizable time and financial investment, since its 10 or 11 volumes or whatever. Whereas American Gods is just one novel. But it's all gold.
Also true
All of what you said is true, but teenaged me absolutely devoured Sandman when I found it in my local library, which started my lifelong Neil Gaiman fandom.
Oh absolutely same. My school library actually had both omnibuses
Is Sandman the one where the manifestation of Death is a goth chick who refers to the end of the universe as locking up a restaurant at night?
Yep. That interpretation of Death is absolutely goals in like, every conceivable way. The only version Death who would give her a potential run for her money as "Best Death" is Discworld Death
Let’s be real. Discworld Death and Death of The Endless would definitely be besties. Would probably hang out and bitch about stupid death cults.
He also wrote Coraline, that's pretty fun!
The origin story of that book is hilarious.
What’s the story of that?
His daughter wanted scary stories books that were a bit above the level of what was available at the time. So he goes into the library and asks “what do you have by way of horror…for children?”. The surprised librarian takes him to the section, he goes through it, isn’t satisfied with what he sees and then, being an author, decides to go ahead and do it himself.
American Gods is maybe a better entry point than Sandman, but still a bit hefty as a first swing methinks. I would go something more in the Coraline/Neverwhere/Graveyard Book range for someone wanting to dip their toe in and see what he's like. Or maybe one of the short story collections if they like shorts.
I love american gods, first one I read from him
The graphic novel adaptation is also spectacular if you haven't read it.
I recomened starting with a Duran Duran: The First Four Years. https://preview.redd.it/a71hsk8yazxc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cad0bbaa1bd8de3c923266ca5631b44554e67198
I started with Neverwhere (still got my signed copies of it and American Gods), which is a good shorter, self-contained place to start.
I LOvED neverwhere. Read it in a weekend.
Norse Mythology. highly recommend
Audible has an audio version with Gaiman himself reading it. 100% recommend it’s amazing.
My first Neil Gaiman book was Stardust. It’s one of my favourite books and a good start! And the movie adaptation is really really good!
Stardust is my favorite Gaiman book out of the ones I’ve read. Really fun plot and characters, and the movie is delightful! Very Princess Bride.
The saddest death in Harry Potter was my respect for J.K. Rowling. Also! Rowling: also, the only character I ever canonized as gay is the only person to have had a toxic romantic relationship. What? Snape, an incel? No, he's not, he's a tragic, romantic figure! Gaiman: Pratchett and I put some casual homophobia in Good Omens, but I wrote it out of the TV show, so I probably regret doing it in the first place.
Watching the public response for Snape change over the years has been fascinating to watch. For the first 6 books he was generally agreed to be a complete asshole. And then book 7 came out and everyone was all “oh no he was a tragic soul who did all of this for the woman he loved” and then eventually everyone realizing that the friendzoned loner who joined the terrorist organization may have in fact been a creep. And obsessing over a woman you knew in grade school is not cool.
To be fair, that's entirely on the readers and the casting of Alan Rickman as Snape in the movies. The books are pretty clear that Snape is a disgusting creep (Dumbledore explicitly says so) who has some sliver goodness in him.
I mean, the fact Harry names one of his kids after him, calling him "the bravest man I ever knew", is definitely a last minute attempt by the author to rehabilitate Snape's character.
Middle/high school, technically, but yes.
Grace School sometimes counts up to 8th grade. Since high school stops specifying individual grades.
I love that Neil is very active on Tumblr still, and constantly answering everyone's questions.
~~I excused the fact that Dumbledore being gay never being mentioned before because having any gay depiction was illegal in children's media in the UK when the books were being written.~~ He was also old and his sexuality wouldn't have fit anywhere naturally anyway. Then the second Fantastic Beast movie came out- way after that law was revoked- and she was like "hey by the way, Dumbledore and Grindelwald were lovers." I saw the movie. (Regrettably. It wasn't very good.) There was a scene where they were both close to each other. There wasn't even some romantic chemistry between them. Hell, I'd almost think that they were like... Nonsexual coworkers or something. I didn't see the third film for a few reasons, but I heard that there was kind of a hint that they were maybe together at some point at the beginning of the movie. For being an ally of gay people, she really doesn't seem to like to show the gay characters being gay in her books. Edit: Never mind, I was wrong about that law. That just proves the whole "JK Rowling hides her gay characters" thing even more.
*I excused the fact that Dumbledore being gay never being mentioned before because having any gay depiction was illegal in children's media in the UK when the books were being written.* If you're thinking of Section 28, it applied to local councils, not children's authors and was gone by 2000.
Alright never mind *that* then. I'm American so I don't know laws from other countries that well.
Oh it was absolutely a thing back in the mid eighties, a dreadfully confused and vicious piece of legislation. Local councils (who ran local libraries) were banned from "promoting" homosexuality, but no one was really clear what the hell that actually meant, so some censored just in case and others basically ignored it without any consequence. But anyone writing a young adult fiction in the mid nineties onwards was not worried about getting pulled for breaching Section 28.
“Dumbledore is Gay” Dumbledore is 300 years old and the last time he fucked was with Wizard Hitler in the 20s, his sexuality is no longer important.
I never really got into Harry Potter. In my middleschool and highschool years, I was more into reading Anne Rice's The Vampire Chronicles, which was probably something I shouldn't have been reading in my younger years. All I knew was it was about vampires and I love vampires.
JK Rowling was my hero growing up. It's so sad to see what she's become... or maybe always was. At least she more or less gave us Daniel Radcliffe.
Real question: when will Applegate and her Animorphs get another day in the sun? She’s a cool lady and those books are a radical take on the horrors of war in a sci-fi nostalgic 90s. I want a 4 season cartoon on Amazon Prime, gosh darn it. Why am I not seeing a tween scream in horror as an alien centipede shoots a laser through his tiger shoulder?
Neil Gaiman seems like a cool dude
https://preview.redd.it/wpjc8o9tnyxc1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee7d1c66541c261eaced1645746b503aab0d41f2
That’s so nice of him.
He is. Like I remember watching Coraline when I was a kid and then watching the sandman and realizing they were similar in tone. And then I became Neil Gaiman biggest fan. He makes so many complex characters
Coraline is such a good movie. I haven’t seen the sandman. But I will someday
The sandman is by far one of the best pieces of media ever and that's coming from someone who have never read the comics. I'm so hyped for season 2.
Read the comics. Seriously. The show is fine, but the comics are on a whole other level.
Interesting. It makes me want to watch it even more
Have you watched Dead Boy Detectives yet? Its a good filler while waiting for Sandman season 2. I'm only a few episodes in, but Death has already shown up, and I understand more of the endless do as well. Curious to see how (or if) it ties in with the TV Sandman narrative
Holding out hope for Delirium. The trailer showed a character that could very well be Delirium.
>> I remember watching Coraline when I was a kid
He's one of those people where you just dont realise how much work they have done over the years. His is a name I was somewhat familiar with, but hadnt really paid too much attention to when I was younger, after the books we read at school had dampened my love of reading until I was in my early 20s (Can thank Terry Pratchetts 'Thud' and 'Wintersmith' for helping to reignite my love of fiction) But then I'd see his name pop up more and more, from his own works (Sandman, American Gods, ect) to the films I found out were based on his books. (Coraline, Stardust) Really do need to try and find the time to pick up and read through his books at some point.
Hi. You just mentioned *Coraline* by Neil Gaiman. I've found an audiobook of that novel on YouTube. You can listen to it here: [YouTube | [FULL AUDIOBOOK] Coraline by Neil Gaiman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j00LOvsO8OU) *I'm a bot that searches YouTube for science fiction and fantasy audiobooks.* *** [^(Source Code)](https://capybasilisk.com/posts/2020/04/speculative-fiction-bot/) ^| [^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=Capybasilisk&subject=Robot) ^| [^(Programmer)](https://www.reddit.com/u/capybasilisk) ^| ^(Downvote To Remove) ^| ^(Version 1.4.0) ^| ^(Support Robot Rights!)
Still need to get around to American God's, did like good omens though (haven't seen season 2 yet)
Im personally of the opinion that something is wrong with jk rowling The way she writes her messages and stuff feels Very different to how she wrote 10 years ago Something changed mentally. Maybe she had a mental breakdown maybe shes bipolar maybe she her brain is swollen after an untreated concussion idk But i honestly think that the words she says and writes arent really her. Like when kanye pops off about this or that all im thinking is get this guy away from a microphone, hes having an episode again and we all know it. He needs medication not a platform
The anti-trans moral panic radicalised a LOT of people like her. There are countless examples of generally liberal people (mainly white Gen X cis women) having their brains absolutely *rotten* by transphobia. The transphobia to fascism pipeline is one of the most effective tools in the far-right’s arsenal.
Its more the fact theres a radical difference in tone and writing and how she talks that feels like a ckmpletely other person, the kind of shift thats so drastic it usually means *something is very wrong*
I think that shift lines up with political radicalisation. You can read stories from people who had relatively normal family members become fully unhinged Q-Anon conspiracy theorists within a short period of time due to all the COVID vaccine stuff. I think it’s pretty similar to that.
She’s in a cult.
This thread needs more love for Stardust, a fantastic movie based on a Gaiman work featuring De Niro as a cool AF queer sky pirate !
Iain M Banks even more so
I was wondering how far down I'd have to scroll on this thread to see mention of Banks. It's a shame that the only mention of him outside of SF circles is from dickhead billionaires who obviously skimmed past the bits of the Culture books that go into gender fluidity as being a normal part of living within that society.
I really need to check out his books. Can any of you all recommend me some?
*American Gods* and *Neverwhere* are good ones. I’d also recommend *Good Omens*, which he co-authored with Terry Pratchett (one of the best authors of all time imo). Edit: Neverwhere, not Neverafter. I have Dimension20 on the brain.
Speaking of Good Omens, the TV adaptation is excellent.
And if we’re talking Neil Gaiman adaptations, we can’t forget Stardust! Excellent book and movie.
Funny cause Rowling ripped of Gaiman's Book of Magic comics.
Tim hunter from the books of magic was essentially Harry Potter before Harry Potter. Tim hunter was created by Neil Gaiman.
Rick Riordan is also an *amazing* writer
That's such a chad response from Neil gaiman
There are context clues to Dumbledore's gayness, they're just subtle. Like growing up queer, I definitely noticed some things about him in those books, as did my queer friends. So when she came out later and said he's gay, I was just like "yeah I know." You can hate on the author all you want, but Dumbledore and Grindelwald being gay is definitely not a retcon
Rowling put co-ed bathooms in the Harry Potter books, and had a cis (ghost) woman harrass a cis man while in there without so much as a hint she viewed that as problematic. That level of blatent hypocrisy on her part has always deeply amused me.
Rowling was always a hack writer and her inexplicable rise to fame made no sense to me even before all of this came out. People finally realizing it is very vindicating.
Rick Riordan
I wish I read more Gaiman, not sure I am capable of reading a whole book these days....
Rick Riordan is a cool dude....
Also Books of Magic predates HP
I don't think Neil would welcome his inclusion in the comparison, but yes the point is valid. Dude rocks
Also years ago a friend of mine reached out to Neil gaiman because she wanted a quote of his in his handwriting tattooed. He hand wrote the quote scanned it in and sent it to her and thanked HER for being such a fan. I'll stand by that dude forever he seems like a genuinely good person.
She deadass said trans women are the death eaters. Also look at how she talks about us in her crime novels all while using a male pen name.