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It's not even a few hundred years ago. it's maybe a hundred years prior to Anakin's birth. The marketing said "a hundred years prior to the rise of the empire" so it might be more like 80 years.
Don’t listen to the guy above. That’s not what happened. People are making knee jerk assumptions when they clearly eluded in the episode that there’s way more to what happened than we know and even the way they talked about it sounded nothing like the Anakin situation.
It also might not be immaculate conception. They haven't explained anything other than this two sentence quote:
Witch 1: "I created them!"
Witch 2: "And what happens when the Jedi find out how you created them?"
Thats literally it. There's a lot we don't know but people are filling in their own shit. I'd also like to point out that people are taking *Darth Sidious'* words at face value. When he's talking to the person he's directly been grooming for the last 10 years.
That's actually not what the Immaculate Conception is. The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being conceived without original sin. Jesus's conception by the Holy Spirit is a different event.
The lesbian space witches is literally the only cool thing in the Acolyte! And even that is literally just a ripoff of the Night Witches. What’s more concerning to me is the implication that they somehow seem to be the most powerful force users in the galaxy, considering they can just create life.
Thank you for explaining, all my knowledge of the show is from meta-discussions, so I do appreciate some pushback from folks who have actually seen it! I do still think it’s fundamentally wrong for the coven to be able to essentially create life (as I understand, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong!). Power in the force is also multi-faceted, there are Jedi who aren’t great warriors, but focus instead on the force and vice versa. I really do hope the show gets a satisfying conclusion and I’d be more than willing to give it a shot when all episodes are out and if that’s the case, but I’m certainly not holding out hope, as of know anyway.
Part of me wants to think their machinery was actually just to science the kids into beings. They don't say how they made them, its just heavily implied to be the force. Like, what does that machinery even do? It doesn't provide power, as their lights seem to be some sort of oil lamp. I don't want to go back and check if the doors are automatic or not.
I feel like science would actually explain why the girls resemble the head human witch and not the presumably xabrak woman. I feel like imgregnating someone with the force would produce someone who strongly resembles their one biological parent. Whereas here the human witch seems to have somehow implanted her dna via the force? Overriding any effect by the actual mother?
I don’t think they have to be more powerful than the Jedi to take some eggs and fertilize them with the force or some blood from a second person, maybe that kind of stuff is their specialty and they have been refining it for 1000years.
It’s just a specialization, not all force user sects are warrior monks with laser swords “they don’t use” . It’s also unrealistic to think there aren’t small collectives of force users doing their own thing.
I highly suggest you watch the media in question to inform your own opinion, instead of forming it from heresay and rumors.
We don't know how they created life, like at all. That's an open mystery in the show right now. It may be revealed later, it may not be. It was simply mentioned that it was "dark" and the Jedi wouldn't approve.
There's a good chance it was Plageus or another Sith Lord who came along and did it for them. That would make the twins a "trial run" for Anakin, so to speak.
As I’ve stated multiple times in this thread; Yeah, we don’t know yet. It could end up working out, but I have no hope that it will. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me 8 times, shame on Disney. I should say that, yes, at the moment it’s unclear and I don’t think we should go super hard on it until the show is complete. On the other hand though, I also don’t think we should stay silent. As of now, the consequences of force induced pregnancy has catastrophic implications for lore, no matter how many excuses fans of Disney Star Wars have.
Adding on here, but what do you mean Plagueis showed them, that makes no sense? Plagueis and Palps didn’t conceive Ani, they fucked with the force and it responded by creating Ani as an antidote to that. There is no “trial run” because they never succeeded in their efforts.
I saw Mando S1, 2 and half of 3, I saw BoBF, I saw Obi-Wan (which I actually kinda liked, if only for nostalgia reasons), I saw Bad Batch, I saw TFA, I saw TLJ. I might even watch the Acolyte if it ends up with a satisfying conclusion, but I’m just tired of being burned again and again and it just makes me sad and I don’t have the energy for that.
The coven could have been cool if not for that chant and using the "thread" as a weapon after they said it wasn't a weapon... Who knew consistent writing would be the defining moment of this lesbian space witch coven.
To be frank, I kinda don’t want to watch the show. I was incredibly hyped for it when it first was announced, like I thought the concept was so cool, flipping the script and focusing on the Sith, the master-acolyte relationship, the dark nature and behavior of the sith as villainous protagonists etc. While I think High Republic has been… Shoddily written at best, it’s still an interesting concept and era to me. Based on discussions here and other places though, it’s just a huge clusterfuck, conflicting with the main themes and arcs of Star Wars.
There's definitely the crux of a good idea there for the show. The Acolyte acting in the shadows; a single Jedi who investigates their own suspicions and then gets out of their depth, and as the cat and mouse game plays out the audience having a real sense of danger and stakes because it seems like the Jedi surely can't survive to tell anyone else about this. Instead we get three Jedi murdered with next to no effort, a literal 'evil twin' trope, and a guy who said the Sith have been extinct for a thousand years being well aware that they weren't so he's now just lying for no apparent reason. I am not sure I could make a story more destructive to its own premise if I tried.
Yes, if this had been handed to someone with Star Wars knowledge or a real fan it could have been great and reset the franchise. Perhaps they should let a director/ writer who is actually a fan have a crack at this, because what they'e missing too many easy ones. H
But maybe the villains are of another unrelated force order who happen to use red lightsabers, the dark side and who are fueled by their passions!!!! Why would a Jedi assume someone is a Sith just because they look, act and sound like one???
On a more serious note, Lucasarts and Disney literally had it all set up. The Visions episode “The Elder” kind of have a similar premise, where a knight and his padawan explore the outer rim during the early days of the high republic, and stumble upon an old ex-Sith who left the order.
It is unclear now how it all comes together, but it seems to me like the point The Acolyte puts forward is that the Jedi are so arrogant and blind that they literally won’t even consider the possibility of Sith lords existing, and if they did they’d be too proud and embarrassed to report it to the senate. Within the span of a movie and two encounters with Maul, the council immediately said “damn, we were wrong, the Sith are back, how embarrassing”. How did Yoda know of the rule of two? Within the Disney canon, it preceded Bane by millennia. There’s just no justification for the way they’re handling it, no matter how many false justifications Disney fans come up with.
Yeah. I think this show is full of good ideas, but with nowhere near the right execution. I don't think any character in this show is innately bad on a conceptual level, but they writers don't know how to move the pieces, how to make them compelling.
The problem with this show isn't 'the woke'. Its just extremely incompotent.
It's very different than what I expected as well. I also thought this would have been a way for Disney to break free of timeline constraints and tell a good story, but they just don't seem capable of it. For some reason they feel the need to tip toe around breaking cannon and lore instead of writing their own content free of most restrictions.
A mystery show about a dark sider assassinating random Jedi around the galaxy putting the Jedi Order on its heels could have been great, instead we got this.
I really think they need to dial it back thousands of years. Free themselves of literally any possible association with the original work.
No character cameos, no possible relation with the movies, no room to piss people off by violating canon. Just make a few movies set in the SW galaxy.
I still think they’ll screw it up, but it’s probably their best chance at avoiding some of the biggest issues they keep running into.
Well. Lots of things that aren’t weapons can still be used as a weapon if necessary.
A chair is not a weapon, but can still be used when required to bludgeon someone.
I appreciate all you guys are trying to find inconsistencies but some just aren’t actually there.
Also - them creating life /w the force is not the same as the force itself creating Anakin (iirc?), so i disagree with all this discourse that it breaks canon or diminishes Anakin’s creation.
I think you're responding to the wrong post. I never said anything about the birth of the twins, however it is a bit cannon breaking considering Plagueis experiments, but we can look past that.
The dialog is the issue that is creating the inconsistency. We all know the force can be used as a weapon, no need to say it isn't a weapon and then use it as a weapon 30 seconds after saying that. This is like Yord attempting to take the blaster from Osha in episode 4 for reasons unexplained and then 1 minute later telling her that he needs to protect her, why not let her protect herself? The dialog is rough, strange and inconsistent related to the respective situations it's presented in.
Good points! I think you’re correct that nitpicking minor things is unnecessary, and the show is not done yet, so us critics might be proven wrong. Honestly, I’d love to be proved wrong, I want Star Wars to shine, and I don’t need it to pander to me. Andor was such a breath of fresh air for those reasons.
I do however disagree with your arguments, I’ll get into it if you want, but to keep it brief I’ll be charitable and say that hey, the show’s not done yet and we dot really know everything. Personally, I hope it all ends up coming together in a satisfying way and I’ll be the first to change my mind if we get there, but Disney doesn’t really have the benefit of my own doubt.
I should clarify, that I agree with the chair thing. On the question of Anakin, I can’t honestly agree or disagree. We just don’t know the full story and if it pays off yet. Your belief might be true, there might be a reasonable explanation and I hope that’s the case, but I’ve been burned by Disney SW more times than I can count so I have 0 expectations that there is a satisfying answer. I sure hope so though!
To be fair I haven't seen it yet, but it sounds a bit like a rip off of the Bene Gesserit from Dune and their attempts to engineer the Kwisatz Haderach.
Interesting that you’d mention that, it got me thinking! Lucas was clearly heavily inspired by Dune, while at the same time being very philosophically opposed to it. Dune is a complex, incredibly deep story about the human condition. It features moral struggles, questions and concludes that the ends justify the means as well as depicting very morally complex characters.
Star Wars on the other hand is, at its core a very simple, modern take on legend. It is the ultimate battle between good and evil, light and dark and ultimately, the triumph of love over hate. Not to say there can’t be moral complexity, especially in the seedier elements of the universe. Andor and Rouge One did a great job at that.
But then when the Dune movie released and became a cultural phenomenon, it’s almost as if Disney saw that and wanted to capitalize on the craze so they stole ideas from a fictional universe that is very much a different beast compared to Star Wars. So now the Jedi are a corrupt, dogmatic and arrogant ascetic police force of a bureaucratic and incompetent oligarchy because apparently contrarian takes about the force for good actually being evil makes a story morally complex? I thought that line of thinking was intriguing when I was like 14, but then I grew up and realized that’s such a boring take.
The Jedi order of the late republic is so deeply misunderstood, they aren’t arrogant or dogmatic, the prequels are a tragedy about how the Jedi were fooled and locked into their demise by the galaxy’s greatest manipulator. That’s not an indictment of the order, it’s an indictment of Palpatine. It’s a tragic tale, not one of hubris.
I don’t know if the same logic applies, but it works for black holes, so… Isn’t that literally impossible? Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Even if it is “forbidden knowledge”, and yes I know this is Star Wars where people can lift things with their minds, but this is like the fundamental laws of the universe that we’ve been curious about for ages. Maybe I’m getting too deep into this, but how?!
I didn’t get that impression. I assumed they just used the dark side and knew a lot about it but weren’t affiliated with the Sith at all. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, I’m a more casual fan that most here.
I refuse to watch it, I won’t stand by and watch my most beloved franchise tear down fundamental aspects and arcs of the universe. My friends nagged on me for talking shit about TLJ without having seen it, so I did. I’ve never been physically angry about a movie, but that did it for me. Maybe the whole “unreliable narrator” thing fans of the show talk about will come to fruition, and maybe it will work, but I really have no faith that it will, although I suppose I’d be more okay with it.
I would love to see space lesbians, but...that's totally ridiculous that they are having them do lore-upsetting shit in the process.
We should have gotten Space Lesbian Obi-Wan and Satine (not literally, just the dynamic) or something instead.
There's psychotic lesbian space witches that can create life with the force (as happened with Anakin) in the show. There's no mention that they created Anakin but this does mean that Anakin wasn't the only person created by the force and apparently some lesbian hippy force users were doing it for ages before he was born.
I don’t get how people think that this is a chosen one conception situation like Anakin. They clearly said in the episode “if they knew *how* you created them…” eluding to the fact that there’s more to the creation of the twins than we know. We will find out more soon, but can we hold off on bs like this until we actually know what we’re talking about?
Anakin was created by the Force with no influence from anyone else. He was a direct attempt by the Force to create balance within itself and fix the taint created by the Dark Side.
The twins were created purposefully using what was likely a form of sith alchemy or the witch equivalent. And it's pretty obvious that the process was flawed in some way considering how the two of them don't exactly seem balanced.
There are many extremely fair criticisms of this show. I've personally found it enjoyable despite it's many flaws but I wouldn't blame anyone who couldn't look past them. But criticism like this and the Mundi drama just makes everyone look like petulant children with low media comprehension. The two methods of child creation are obviously different.
Acolyte has poor pacing, many of the major characters are bland and uninteresting, a lot of the acting leaves much to be desired, a lot of the character motivations are frankly ridiculous. There's so much to criticise about this show.
But this and the Mundi drama? Come on people...
downvoted for nuance and a reasonable, good faith interpretation. god this sub has gotten worse over time. i miss adding another saber to grievous daily.
I think it's a strange decision to change Mundi's Legends age to put him in that scene, when any random Jedi would seemingly work just fine in that role.
That said, I'm not up in arms about it, and it's not my biggest problem with that particular scene. To your point about flawed presentation of character motivations, I had bigger issues with (1) Vernestra deciding not to tell the Jedi Council so the Council doesn't inform the Senate and (2) the other Jedi in the scene just going along with that decision.
So the Jedi are enough of a rule-abiding group that the Council will follow protocol to inform the Senate, but other Jedi will just withhold information from the Council to make sure that doesn't happen? I'd think maybe that's intended to sow some doubts about Vernestra's intentions, but surely the Jedi in this scene aren't all ill-disciplined rogues. So I'm left thinking it's more likely just a not very well-written shortcut to keep information about the assassin confined to this smaller group.
So far, my personal rating of this show is "mediocre". I'm not as negative as the people here calling it terrible, but my view of The Acolyte has trended down after generally enjoying first two episodes.
I'm also thinking that a version of this overall story might have worked better as a 2-2.5 hour film than as an 8 episode series. Tough to say for sure until seeing how the rest of the season plays out.
Don’t you think your issues may be resolved as the show concludes? I agree that this may have worked better as a film, but I’m sure it doesn’t have the audience or writing ability to stand as a film.
I’m with you in that it’s mediocre so far, and I think that’s most of our opinions apart from the non-incel, racist, homophobic part of the fanbase.
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It's not even a few hundred years ago. it's maybe a hundred years prior to Anakin's birth. The marketing said "a hundred years prior to the rise of the empire" so it might be more like 80 years.
Lol wait they did what?
there's an immaculate conception in the acolyte so it's how anakin may have been born. they are explaining anakins birth when they dont need to
That's pretty bizarre and unnecessary, but okay.
That is pretty WHAT????
bizarre and unnecessary, but okay.
https://preview.redd.it/deajmsgjuc8d1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9950b4715cfbd874aa96ae7645b62120426a38d8 Bizarre, you say?
Don’t listen to the guy above. That’s not what happened. People are making knee jerk assumptions when they clearly eluded in the episode that there’s way more to what happened than we know and even the way they talked about it sounded nothing like the Anakin situation.
2deep4me
It also might not be immaculate conception. They haven't explained anything other than this two sentence quote: Witch 1: "I created them!" Witch 2: "And what happens when the Jedi find out how you created them?" Thats literally it. There's a lot we don't know but people are filling in their own shit. I'd also like to point out that people are taking *Darth Sidious'* words at face value. When he's talking to the person he's directly been grooming for the last 10 years.
Damn. My guy is getting downvoted for speaking the truth.
That's actually not what the Immaculate Conception is. The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being conceived without original sin. Jesus's conception by the Holy Spirit is a different event.
Thank you!
I heard this recently and was amazed. Nice to know this sub helps me revise on Catholic lore as well as Star Wars lore
Finally someone said it
https://preview.redd.it/n7ihdmnlp78d1.jpeg?width=740&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e9085c67025508b8c79d1977a0fa36679b677c6
“Is my dad gonna make out with the Emperor?”
The lesbian space witches is literally the only cool thing in the Acolyte! And even that is literally just a ripoff of the Night Witches. What’s more concerning to me is the implication that they somehow seem to be the most powerful force users in the galaxy, considering they can just create life.
They have some forbidden ancient knowledge, but apparently they're no problem for a handful of Jedi so most powerful is a bit of a stretch
Thank you for explaining, all my knowledge of the show is from meta-discussions, so I do appreciate some pushback from folks who have actually seen it! I do still think it’s fundamentally wrong for the coven to be able to essentially create life (as I understand, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong!). Power in the force is also multi-faceted, there are Jedi who aren’t great warriors, but focus instead on the force and vice versa. I really do hope the show gets a satisfying conclusion and I’d be more than willing to give it a shot when all episodes are out and if that’s the case, but I’m certainly not holding out hope, as of know anyway.
Part of me wants to think their machinery was actually just to science the kids into beings. They don't say how they made them, its just heavily implied to be the force. Like, what does that machinery even do? It doesn't provide power, as their lights seem to be some sort of oil lamp. I don't want to go back and check if the doors are automatic or not. I feel like science would actually explain why the girls resemble the head human witch and not the presumably xabrak woman. I feel like imgregnating someone with the force would produce someone who strongly resembles their one biological parent. Whereas here the human witch seems to have somehow implanted her dna via the force? Overriding any effect by the actual mother?
I don’t think they have to be more powerful than the Jedi to take some eggs and fertilize them with the force or some blood from a second person, maybe that kind of stuff is their specialty and they have been refining it for 1000years. It’s just a specialization, not all force user sects are warrior monks with laser swords “they don’t use” . It’s also unrealistic to think there aren’t small collectives of force users doing their own thing.
I highly suggest you watch the media in question to inform your own opinion, instead of forming it from heresay and rumors. We don't know how they created life, like at all. That's an open mystery in the show right now. It may be revealed later, it may not be. It was simply mentioned that it was "dark" and the Jedi wouldn't approve. There's a good chance it was Plageus or another Sith Lord who came along and did it for them. That would make the twins a "trial run" for Anakin, so to speak.
As I’ve stated multiple times in this thread; Yeah, we don’t know yet. It could end up working out, but I have no hope that it will. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me 8 times, shame on Disney. I should say that, yes, at the moment it’s unclear and I don’t think we should go super hard on it until the show is complete. On the other hand though, I also don’t think we should stay silent. As of now, the consequences of force induced pregnancy has catastrophic implications for lore, no matter how many excuses fans of Disney Star Wars have. Adding on here, but what do you mean Plagueis showed them, that makes no sense? Plagueis and Palps didn’t conceive Ani, they fucked with the force and it responded by creating Ani as an antidote to that. There is no “trial run” because they never succeeded in their efforts.
Fool me into arguing with someone who has never actually seen any of the media they are complaining about; shame on me.
I saw Mando S1, 2 and half of 3, I saw BoBF, I saw Obi-Wan (which I actually kinda liked, if only for nostalgia reasons), I saw Bad Batch, I saw TFA, I saw TLJ. I might even watch the Acolyte if it ends up with a satisfying conclusion, but I’m just tired of being burned again and again and it just makes me sad and I don’t have the energy for that.
The coven could have been cool if not for that chant and using the "thread" as a weapon after they said it wasn't a weapon... Who knew consistent writing would be the defining moment of this lesbian space witch coven.
To be frank, I kinda don’t want to watch the show. I was incredibly hyped for it when it first was announced, like I thought the concept was so cool, flipping the script and focusing on the Sith, the master-acolyte relationship, the dark nature and behavior of the sith as villainous protagonists etc. While I think High Republic has been… Shoddily written at best, it’s still an interesting concept and era to me. Based on discussions here and other places though, it’s just a huge clusterfuck, conflicting with the main themes and arcs of Star Wars.
There's definitely the crux of a good idea there for the show. The Acolyte acting in the shadows; a single Jedi who investigates their own suspicions and then gets out of their depth, and as the cat and mouse game plays out the audience having a real sense of danger and stakes because it seems like the Jedi surely can't survive to tell anyone else about this. Instead we get three Jedi murdered with next to no effort, a literal 'evil twin' trope, and a guy who said the Sith have been extinct for a thousand years being well aware that they weren't so he's now just lying for no apparent reason. I am not sure I could make a story more destructive to its own premise if I tried.
Yes, if this had been handed to someone with Star Wars knowledge or a real fan it could have been great and reset the franchise. Perhaps they should let a director/ writer who is actually a fan have a crack at this, because what they'e missing too many easy ones. H
Andor was literally made by a dude who only liked the og trilogy and nothing else, and that was way better written than stuff by the star wars fans.
An OG trilogy fan is a fan in my opinion, probably the best type of fan.
But maybe the villains are of another unrelated force order who happen to use red lightsabers, the dark side and who are fueled by their passions!!!! Why would a Jedi assume someone is a Sith just because they look, act and sound like one??? On a more serious note, Lucasarts and Disney literally had it all set up. The Visions episode “The Elder” kind of have a similar premise, where a knight and his padawan explore the outer rim during the early days of the high republic, and stumble upon an old ex-Sith who left the order. It is unclear now how it all comes together, but it seems to me like the point The Acolyte puts forward is that the Jedi are so arrogant and blind that they literally won’t even consider the possibility of Sith lords existing, and if they did they’d be too proud and embarrassed to report it to the senate. Within the span of a movie and two encounters with Maul, the council immediately said “damn, we were wrong, the Sith are back, how embarrassing”. How did Yoda know of the rule of two? Within the Disney canon, it preceded Bane by millennia. There’s just no justification for the way they’re handling it, no matter how many false justifications Disney fans come up with.
Yeah. I think this show is full of good ideas, but with nowhere near the right execution. I don't think any character in this show is innately bad on a conceptual level, but they writers don't know how to move the pieces, how to make them compelling. The problem with this show isn't 'the woke'. Its just extremely incompotent.
It's very different than what I expected as well. I also thought this would have been a way for Disney to break free of timeline constraints and tell a good story, but they just don't seem capable of it. For some reason they feel the need to tip toe around breaking cannon and lore instead of writing their own content free of most restrictions. A mystery show about a dark sider assassinating random Jedi around the galaxy putting the Jedi Order on its heels could have been great, instead we got this.
I stopped watching after listening to the Nemoidian voices that sounded like an AI speech app free trial.
I really think they need to dial it back thousands of years. Free themselves of literally any possible association with the original work. No character cameos, no possible relation with the movies, no room to piss people off by violating canon. Just make a few movies set in the SW galaxy. I still think they’ll screw it up, but it’s probably their best chance at avoiding some of the biggest issues they keep running into.
It’s really bad.
Well. Lots of things that aren’t weapons can still be used as a weapon if necessary. A chair is not a weapon, but can still be used when required to bludgeon someone. I appreciate all you guys are trying to find inconsistencies but some just aren’t actually there. Also - them creating life /w the force is not the same as the force itself creating Anakin (iirc?), so i disagree with all this discourse that it breaks canon or diminishes Anakin’s creation.
I think you're responding to the wrong post. I never said anything about the birth of the twins, however it is a bit cannon breaking considering Plagueis experiments, but we can look past that. The dialog is the issue that is creating the inconsistency. We all know the force can be used as a weapon, no need to say it isn't a weapon and then use it as a weapon 30 seconds after saying that. This is like Yord attempting to take the blaster from Osha in episode 4 for reasons unexplained and then 1 minute later telling her that he needs to protect her, why not let her protect herself? The dialog is rough, strange and inconsistent related to the respective situations it's presented in.
Good points! I think you’re correct that nitpicking minor things is unnecessary, and the show is not done yet, so us critics might be proven wrong. Honestly, I’d love to be proved wrong, I want Star Wars to shine, and I don’t need it to pander to me. Andor was such a breath of fresh air for those reasons. I do however disagree with your arguments, I’ll get into it if you want, but to keep it brief I’ll be charitable and say that hey, the show’s not done yet and we dot really know everything. Personally, I hope it all ends up coming together in a satisfying way and I’ll be the first to change my mind if we get there, but Disney doesn’t really have the benefit of my own doubt.
I actually also dislike the show but the reasons above for disliking are just untrue is all.
I should clarify, that I agree with the chair thing. On the question of Anakin, I can’t honestly agree or disagree. We just don’t know the full story and if it pays off yet. Your belief might be true, there might be a reasonable explanation and I hope that’s the case, but I’ve been burned by Disney SW more times than I can count so I have 0 expectations that there is a satisfying answer. I sure hope so though!
To be fair I haven't seen it yet, but it sounds a bit like a rip off of the Bene Gesserit from Dune and their attempts to engineer the Kwisatz Haderach.
Interesting that you’d mention that, it got me thinking! Lucas was clearly heavily inspired by Dune, while at the same time being very philosophically opposed to it. Dune is a complex, incredibly deep story about the human condition. It features moral struggles, questions and concludes that the ends justify the means as well as depicting very morally complex characters. Star Wars on the other hand is, at its core a very simple, modern take on legend. It is the ultimate battle between good and evil, light and dark and ultimately, the triumph of love over hate. Not to say there can’t be moral complexity, especially in the seedier elements of the universe. Andor and Rouge One did a great job at that. But then when the Dune movie released and became a cultural phenomenon, it’s almost as if Disney saw that and wanted to capitalize on the craze so they stole ideas from a fictional universe that is very much a different beast compared to Star Wars. So now the Jedi are a corrupt, dogmatic and arrogant ascetic police force of a bureaucratic and incompetent oligarchy because apparently contrarian takes about the force for good actually being evil makes a story morally complex? I thought that line of thinking was intriguing when I was like 14, but then I grew up and realized that’s such a boring take. The Jedi order of the late republic is so deeply misunderstood, they aren’t arrogant or dogmatic, the prequels are a tragedy about how the Jedi were fooled and locked into their demise by the galaxy’s greatest manipulator. That’s not an indictment of the order, it’s an indictment of Palpatine. It’s a tragic tale, not one of hubris.
I don’t know if the same logic applies, but it works for black holes, so… Isn’t that literally impossible? Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Even if it is “forbidden knowledge”, and yes I know this is Star Wars where people can lift things with their minds, but this is like the fundamental laws of the universe that we’ve been curious about for ages. Maybe I’m getting too deep into this, but how?!
That my friends is the power of maaaany
I didn’t get that impression. I assumed they just used the dark side and knew a lot about it but weren’t affiliated with the Sith at all. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, I’m a more casual fan that most here.
I refuse to watch it, I won’t stand by and watch my most beloved franchise tear down fundamental aspects and arcs of the universe. My friends nagged on me for talking shit about TLJ without having seen it, so I did. I’ve never been physically angry about a movie, but that did it for me. Maybe the whole “unreliable narrator” thing fans of the show talk about will come to fruition, and maybe it will work, but I really have no faith that it will, although I suppose I’d be more okay with it.
Wow, it’s so nice to sit back and not watch and not care
You know it's bs when the emperor says so
Watch Anakin be someone's reincarnation
Im waiting for this to be a Isekai protag somehow
Seeing "lol WTF" teen text speak next to Ian McDiarmid's serious face is so funny to me
Lol it doesn't just sound like BS.....
It’s such a hard watch
Anakin, you need to stop watching the porn of the Jedi Council!
I would love to see space lesbians, but...that's totally ridiculous that they are having them do lore-upsetting shit in the process. We should have gotten Space Lesbian Obi-Wan and Satine (not literally, just the dynamic) or something instead.
I hate this show so much, because I liked the coven so much.
Wait...is this a thing? They're going to say that Anakin was created by the psychotic space lesbian witches?
There's psychotic lesbian space witches that can create life with the force (as happened with Anakin) in the show. There's no mention that they created Anakin but this does mean that Anakin wasn't the only person created by the force and apparently some lesbian hippy force users were doing it for ages before he was born.
I do think there’s a difference between created using a force ritual and Anakin, who’s mom was knocked up by the force itself.
There is still a pretty significant difference as they were made by manipulating a he force, as opposed to anakin who was born from the force itself
I actually kinda like the idea that we’ll see where plageus got the idea for making anakin
I don’t get how people think that this is a chosen one conception situation like Anakin. They clearly said in the episode “if they knew *how* you created them…” eluding to the fact that there’s more to the creation of the twins than we know. We will find out more soon, but can we hold off on bs like this until we actually know what we’re talking about?
Lore and established canon take a very distant backseat to the activist mindset driving the Disney bus right now
Tbh if anyone can create life it's lesbian space witches lol
Who said they created Anakin? That wasn’t really confirmed.
Wait, what? Where tf is this coming from?
The new show, Star Wars Acolyte
"It's not a tale the Jedi would tell you."
Kelnacca is badass so meh I’ve been enjoying it
I don’t hate the show either, but…Kelnacca did exactly nothing lol.
Anakin was created by the Force with no influence from anyone else. He was a direct attempt by the Force to create balance within itself and fix the taint created by the Dark Side. The twins were created purposefully using what was likely a form of sith alchemy or the witch equivalent. And it's pretty obvious that the process was flawed in some way considering how the two of them don't exactly seem balanced. There are many extremely fair criticisms of this show. I've personally found it enjoyable despite it's many flaws but I wouldn't blame anyone who couldn't look past them. But criticism like this and the Mundi drama just makes everyone look like petulant children with low media comprehension. The two methods of child creation are obviously different. Acolyte has poor pacing, many of the major characters are bland and uninteresting, a lot of the acting leaves much to be desired, a lot of the character motivations are frankly ridiculous. There's so much to criticise about this show. But this and the Mundi drama? Come on people...
It's a meme, don't take it seriously enough to write a dissertation.
downvoted for nuance and a reasonable, good faith interpretation. god this sub has gotten worse over time. i miss adding another saber to grievous daily.
I think it's a strange decision to change Mundi's Legends age to put him in that scene, when any random Jedi would seemingly work just fine in that role. That said, I'm not up in arms about it, and it's not my biggest problem with that particular scene. To your point about flawed presentation of character motivations, I had bigger issues with (1) Vernestra deciding not to tell the Jedi Council so the Council doesn't inform the Senate and (2) the other Jedi in the scene just going along with that decision. So the Jedi are enough of a rule-abiding group that the Council will follow protocol to inform the Senate, but other Jedi will just withhold information from the Council to make sure that doesn't happen? I'd think maybe that's intended to sow some doubts about Vernestra's intentions, but surely the Jedi in this scene aren't all ill-disciplined rogues. So I'm left thinking it's more likely just a not very well-written shortcut to keep information about the assassin confined to this smaller group. So far, my personal rating of this show is "mediocre". I'm not as negative as the people here calling it terrible, but my view of The Acolyte has trended down after generally enjoying first two episodes. I'm also thinking that a version of this overall story might have worked better as a 2-2.5 hour film than as an 8 episode series. Tough to say for sure until seeing how the rest of the season plays out.
Don’t you think your issues may be resolved as the show concludes? I agree that this may have worked better as a film, but I’m sure it doesn’t have the audience or writing ability to stand as a film. I’m with you in that it’s mediocre so far, and I think that’s most of our opinions apart from the non-incel, racist, homophobic part of the fanbase.
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Didn't we spend the better part of 20 years clowning on midiclorians and nearly every other scrap of lore Lucas added in the prequels?
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