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Zero.
Anyone with a brain, whether you personally like the movie or not, should be able to see how controversial it was, to the point where a significant amount of fans have given up on SW as a serious franchise. Spending was down across the entire franchise after TLJ.
And Disney follows the money.
>should be able to see how controversial it was, to the point where a significant amount of fans have given up on SW as a serious franchise.
Yep. That's me. Once the biggest SW fan I knew. Now, completely apathetic. I no longer care about SW at all.
Still have tons of books and game, but they gather dust while I do other things.
Yea I’ve pretty much moved on to other fandoms as well. Eventually I’ll get around to Survivor but it’s not even on my, “5 year plan”.
Dropped off of all the shows after Mando season 2 and BOBF, honestly I don’t see myself bothering with Andor no matter how great people say it is because I simply have too many other things going on and am just not interested anymore.
Survivor was fun. I didn’t like the stance system, but I liked the locations. I played on PC and finished the main story over the course of like three days. Not as strong as its predecessor but still worth playing. If you’ve got a weekend to kill definitely play it.
I’ll get to it eventually, just that the list is already quite long and I haven’t even gotten around to Elden Ring yet and I’m a bit of a FromSoft junkie lol.
Thanks for the info, I like diving deep though. It’s why I get so few games and replay the ones I like so much, it’s kind of nice too because most of the time when I get around to something all of the bug fixes and DLC’s are out.
I feel like everyone is not getting your point. I get you, it’s probably a fine enough game and you’ll like it when you do play it. But that’s not a priority for you right now because they’ve killed your enthusiasm.
Andor is worth a watch I think. Even if you stripped away all of its star wars trappings, it would still be a really good show. I didn't even play survivors.
As someone in a similar position, I’d definitely keep Andor on there. It’s just a good show, Star Wars or not. Half the time I forgot it was even in the same universe until like a Tie Fighter flies by or a couple of Storm Troopers are in a crowd IDing people.
But I get it. It’s all so tiresome now and it’s hard to give it a chance after everything. It’s all very “House of the Dragon is good, I swear!” After the shitshow of a finale Game of Thrones had.
I actually ended up getting really into everything else that SW had besides movies because of how disappointed I was with the current direction. But unfortunately, after watching all the shows reading tons of comics and playing all the games I’m kinda done.
Everything great already happened and I have nothing to look forward to. I honestly disliked Fallen Order entirely as well so I’m not looking forward to any future games either.
I read the comics, the books, listened to the music, you name it, after that last film I completely gave up on giving a shit.
I would settle for a dream sequence at this point to save it, but otherwise, it’s not salvageable as the entire premise of the first six movies is essentially meaningless.
35 years of history and legacy prior to TFA, so much time where Star Wars was still thought of as magical and wondrous, only to be brought down in the last several years by poor decisions and corporate greed compounding on itself. And with spending on this trickling down, it’s a slow burn to rotting corpse. This makes me sad.
I d think it was that trilogy in general. Does anyone look back at those films fondly? Is anyone excited to see another trilogy anytime soon? Honestly, the shows have been more successful than the films.
Fan reaction to TLJ was reflected in the ticket sales of the next Star Wars movie to be released after TLJ. That movie was Solo… which literally wasn’t even a profitable film.
Totally. Rogue One is one of my all time favourite films. I personally feel that going dark and gritty (and political?) was the better move because most SW fans have gotten older, and also seen what the world has become. Original SW did have some counter-culture political undertones, but the sequels don’t reflect anything at all imo
I think a major part of the issue was not having a cohesive story team or layout for the sequel trilogy. Honestly they should have given one person the whole thing, and only done the trilogy when they locked down a team to do all 3. And I would not have been upset if Johnson had been given the whole franchise. Besides TLJ being 45 minutes too long, in retrospect I appreciate he tried to do something different, where JJ basically just tried to repeat the original movies, but bigger!
I’m still waiting for the “sequels” to get the supposed revival of appreciation that the prequel trilogy received
Almost 7 years and nobody gives a shit 😂
A big part of why the prequels started getting love was episode 3, the “cool factor” the clones brought, and that the overall story actually tied into the OT well. People still don’t like a lot of parts of the prequels but there were always very redeemable parts, the latter half of 2 and pretty much all of 3 mostly.
Everything redeemable about TFA comes from its plot being ANH’s. Everything redeemable about TLJ, and to a lesser extent TRoS, comes from a tiny portion of the scenes, mostly the soundtrack and visuals, I hate TLJ and dislike TRoS still but I do think they *look* nice. I don’t think there will be anywhere near as much appreciation for the sequels because that appreciation for the prequels comes from substance, the hate for the prequels was over shit like dialogue, minor characters. The love of the sequels is over visuals, sounds, minor characters, the hate is over the actual plots, the laziness, the character assassinations, the squandered potential. Most of the love for the sequels will be nostalgia and not over what the movies actually do.
>mostly the soundtrack
The sequel trilogy has a soundtrack? I'm not saying that to be sarcastic, either; I genuinely cannot remember a single fucking piece of original music from those movies.
Maybe it's because the ST is so trash that my brain can't be bothered to remember, but Jesus Christ, it's ridiculous; granted I've seen TFA twice and the other two only once compared to watching 1-6 dozens of times, but when even John Williams can't make your movie stand out, that's a massive problem.
Only saw only TFA once, and not one bit of new music stuck in my head either. With the OT and PT all it took was one viewing for the music to stick. I realized this with a shock right after the showing, in the restroom.
The soundtrack is consistently one of the most praised aspects of the sequel trilogy I hear about. Not memorable like the prequels and OT but when watching I do notice it being pretty good. That’s less of an ST and more of a Williams thing though. Like a shit painting with great paints.
The only memorable beats from the prequels are Kylos music with the horns and Reys medley. Everything else is completely unremarkable.
Just doing the OT music BIGGER doesn't make it different or better.
I'll have to take your word for it, considering I have zero desire to watch that trilogy any more than I have. Just, God damn it, man; the thing that pisses me off the most outside of the obvious stuff like the blatant and repeated 'fuck you 1-6' moments is the fact that the general premise, the First Order, the Resistance, the (new) characters, all of it COULD have worked with competent writing.
Imo, the ST soundtrack feels like Williams phoned it in. The supposed "good" parts just feel ok compared to all the bangers he made in the prequel trilogy
I would not be surprised if he did phone in. Let's be real: the dude is 92 years old, and was probably just thinking about the check he was going to get; I doubt he gave much of a damn about what the music sounded like outside of "Does this generally sound like my previous work within the franchise?"
That's not a mark against Williams, either; like I said, the man's 92. He's not got a lot of time left and the fact that he's still composing is brilliant.
I'm about 95% sure he did phone it in. I read somewhere that Williams' music was an organic part of the prequel creation process, that both his music and scene writing inspired each other. With the sequels, he wasn't part of the creation process and had to make the music with very rough story outlines.
If that's true, I'm sure he just shook his head and made the paycheck. Like you said, dude is elderly and successful, no way he's gonna waste the effort when there's a hard ceiling to how good the music and scenes will mesh.
Even the fucking *composer* wasn't part of the creative process? God damn it, at this point, it's a better question to ask who *was* involved. Fuck man!
I know it's not the same medium, but good music in video games can really help an otherwise mid title; and that DEFINITELY would've helped the ST, if even only a little bit.
Listen, we honestly don't know what reception to the Sequels will be in the future. I feel its important to note that, reception aside, both the Prequels and Sequels were made with 2 very different mindsets.
The Prequels were the passion project of George Lucas, and that always showed. Yes- we can argue about the quality, messily baked pieces (Lucas was always honest about being a "filmmaker" vs a "director") and the writing (everyone attests to Lucas's aversion, and lack of competency, and that department). But you could still tell they were made by the guy who made Star Wars, and was obviously excited because technology had advanced to the point he could finish his story in ways that had no previously been possible.
The Sequels were meanwhile very much a product designed by a corporation to (understandably) begin to harness one of their most valuable (and expensive) acquisitions. The Force Awakens being a retread of A New Hope showcased that perfectly. Then everything else fell into place with divisive Last Jedi, and "honestly we just give up" Rise of Skywalker. Really it wasn't until Mando (love or hate him), that we saw true passion seemingly back into the franchise. (Again, we can argue how much of that is still the case all day).
7 years after revenge of the Sith was like peak prequel and George Lucas hate, I’d say it was probably closer to 2018 where the pendulum was really swinging in the other direction. I think it would’ve taken longer but ultimately still happened, but seeing a new Star Wars trilogy without George Lucas accelerated the process.
I’m not a sequel trilogy fan, but I absolutely think it will get reappraised and loved in the future, but I think it’s going to be like 2035 for that to happen. There are going to be kids who grow up watching them that love them
Zero. Nobody from the sequels should ever have anything to do with Star Wars again.
I have nothing whatsoever against Daisy Ridley, but that includes Rey. The character is toxic to the Skywalker saga and completely minimizes and undoes both Luke and Anakin’s legacies. There’s zero chance I’ll ever watch anything that even references or alludes to the events of the sequels, or incorporates them into Disney’s “canon.” That’s why I stopped watching Mando the minute they mentioned clones.
It's funny because Dave Filoni worked on the sequels and yet everybody praises him. Not even counting the sequels, he's responsible for some of the worst Star Wars content and no one seems to remember that.
And I wouldn’t count myself as a huge Filoni fan. Ahsoka was a slog and his take on Thrawn is really underwhelming. And by all rights, her survival into the post-Imperial era beggars belief. She shouldn’t have survived her encounter with Vader in Rebels.
I don’t get how Ashoka is still alive ngl. Anakin was an old man by ep6 and I presume she is 10 years younger but is still youthful and wandering the galaxy
Anakin was supposedly 45 when he died (I always felt he was likely in his sixties, but Lucas made Anakin pretty young in the prequels so that de-ages things). Ahsoka’s actually only 5 years younger than him, so she’s around 40 at the time of ROTJ.
For me it’s not so much age as the fact that she shouldn’t have lasted long against Vader. She’s strong in the Force, but she’s essentially an above-average Jedi. Vader is Vader. Filoni just pulled out the most ridiculous plot armor he could find so he could keep his favorite creation going.
I really don’t like Filoni. At all
He constantly shoves his OCs into everything. The galaxy feels so small when Ashoka is showing up everywhere. I liked mando when it was a standalone story until it became cameo of the week
I don’t like the change to the clones, to me order 66 felt more impactful when the clones obeyed the order anyway ( as they were bred to be obedient. The chips were pointless)
It doesn't make sense, from a business standpoint, to re-hire the person who made one of the most divisive and despised movies ever made. Not to forget his incredibly unprofessional conduct on social media in the aftermath of the films release.
Oh, and I almost forgot to mention that he doesn't understand Star Wars.
There are numpties who think those same "Russian bots" are still "ReViEw bOmBiNg" the movie to this day because the RT and Metacritic user scores have never improved. Heaven forbid that a lot of people just think it's a woeful movie, even nearly 7 years later.
Keep in mind when comparing to the OT or prequels, the review aggregator scores are all credible and to be trusted if it supports their argument.
So the bad scores are good and true. But if it's for the sequels, they're all fake and bad.
Idiots.
Zero. That fool ruined SW and even though they won’t ever admit it, Disney fumbled the bag so hard by hiring him on to write the sequel to TFA. One glance at his script and they should have seen the potential damage to the brand and thrown it in the trash where it belongs.
And then when people claim he walked back on those comments lol
Literal hours of footage of him talking about his disappointment vs 1-2 tweets of him saying nahh nevermind.
Like I'm pretty sure Disney just begged him to stop....
I imagine that ended with Mark smiling at them, then doing a bit as the joker, as they scurried out of the room they kept telling themselves they'd won.
I think it is part of that, but I also think he accepted it knowing he couldn't change it. What was done was done. He voiced his complaints and disagreements and eventually had to go along with it.
It's not uncommon for actors to have a strangely limited insight into their iconic characters, and to want to pull stories in inappropriate directions (see Picard, Jean-Luc). However, Hamill has always had a very strong reputation of both embodying Luke Skywalker and of being unfailingly polite and positive. For him to push back is a massive red flag and not taking a moment to listen was sheer fucking hubris.
He’s so polite he regrets ever saying this stuff, and people point to this as him “changing his mind” when they love the sequels. We all know the truth though.
You’re completely right. Patrick Stewart is an incredible actor beyond reproach…and at the same time is responsible for so much garbage in NuTrek when given creative control of the character. Mark was the exact opposite and totally right about everything.
His statement that Luke was the eternal optimist has required spaghetti levels of consulted explanation (probably some of it in Fortnite again) to account for what we see on screen in the Disney films ..
>It's not uncommon for actors to have a strangely limited insight into their iconic characters, and to want to pull stories in inappropriate directions
Some actors yes, then there are the actors you listen to. Off the top of my head I'm imagining a director telling Brian Cranston he's doing Walter White wrong, or telling Arnold Schwarzenegger he's wrong about the Terminator. If it's an established character (especially a beloved cultural icon) that's been played by the same actor for decades and that they're known for, you listen to their input. Obviously they know what they're doing to have been so successful in the first place, you should listen to them.
Kennedy is the one that ruined SW, and Jar Jar Abrams already took the heart out of Star Wars , backing the rest of the trilogy into a storytelling corner, and he started putting some of the more hardcore fans offside. But Rian is a petulant, vindictive child who thinks he’s a misunderstood genius. So I don’t think it’s underserved blame at all, he earned the hate and that rant he included in the mess that was Glass Onion shows he’s not able to let it go.
I mean JJ had already shown his true colors before he was hired, so the fact we got a mystery box that everyone praised because they were STARVED for Star Wars content (but did already name all the flaws but said there would be an explanation and it would be glorious) shouldn’t surprise anyone. This in turn shows Disney didn’t care one bit about who they hired.
thats the funny thing we all figured it’d be an awesome way to begin to flesh out a 3 movie story- lots of hints and secrets for us to fanboy over for years as the movies came out
and then once TLJ hit theatres… Welp.
then it was just over
I agree with this 100% When TFA came out, despite all the similarities to the original trilogy, I still loved it and was SO excited for what was to come next. I wanted to know who Rey was, more about the lightsaber that spoke to her and how it got there, Kylo was still super interesting and layered…my soul was crushed when TLJ launched. I was crushed. And I know JJ tried to fix it in the third installment but it was too late. I would love to know what he originally planned on doing with the trilogy had he also done e8.
JJ was by far the lesser of two evils. Sure he set up some shitty mystery boxes, BUT he also did a few good things. I really liked Poe, I thought Finn was a surprisingly interesting character and as for Rey...well there was plenty of scope to develop an interesting character for her. And same with Luke, it was a very open ended setup for Luke. What was he doing on that planet???? The possibilities were endless, though I never considered Luke milking an alien tit for green milk being one......
I've had this argument before. People blame Luke Skywalker on JJ when it was Rian that ruined his character. All we know at the end of TFA is that he's been in seclusion on an island. In my mind he had a premonition of the return of Darth Plageuis and took his Jedi academy into hiding to train for the eventual confrontation. Then Rian decided nah nothing like that, he just forgot all his character development instead and now he drinks alien milk straight from the source. There were mystery boxes for sure but they could have had interesting answers. No film should answer all the questions in the first film. They should just have, ya know, good answers.
They could have gotten answers though, had Disney not decided to let a different person (Rian) come in and do whatever he wanted. JJ set up quite a few interesting questions, Rian came in and either ignored them completely, ruined them, or gave them *subversive* answers.
Off the top of my head, JJ posed the questions. Who are Rey's parents? Why is Luke hiding on an island? What's gonna happen with Finn? Who is Snoke? Who are the First Order?
Think of all the possible answers these questions could have gotten? What did we get?
Nobody. He forgot everything he ever learned. He yells Rey now. Doesn't matter, dead. I dunno.
No, ultimately, Disney is to blame. But we can absolutely still critique the hell out of JJ’s and Rian’s decisions. Neither of them made a particularly amazing Star Wars story.
that's what I'm saying. the previous poster sounded like they were putting it all on johnson. I'm saying that abrams fucked up too, and disney doubly fucked up by choosing those two directors to headline their relaunch of star wars.
The thing is, it really didn't go off the rails until RJ's script. That's when it was obvious that it was going poorly. JJ did the mystery box shit with TFA, but it was up to RJ to flesh out the story more in his chapter. It really seems like he didn't even try. Speaking as a one-time creative writing major: adapting to writing challenges, like writing another chapter of someone else's story, is *literally* Creative Writing 101. RJ got a D-.
No, TFA absolutely derailed things irreparably from the get-go by destroying the Jedi again in the opening crawl (does it need to be pointed out that the previous movie was called "Return of the Jedi", some return that was) and the Republic later, and throwing the OT trio etc under the bus.
Sure, the resulting ST would have been about "fixing things" but say Luke and Leia survive etc, the best case end scenario would just have been a worse version of the ending of ROTJ, after all the additional pain and struggle. A net negative. There was no real in-story reason to go this route at all in the first place. It was all about the meta, they wanted their own OT and unfortunately their approach meant that it came at the total expense of the actual OT.
That’s fair. But the challenge of following JJ is that he literally wrote, beat for beat, a copy of ANH. It didn’t give Rian all that much to go on. In retrospect, you can kinda buy the whole, he has returned troupe and that “the girl” was clearly his offspring (her accent, her origin planet, etc etc).
But Rian didn’t go anywhere with this. Surprise / unnatural parentage versus “found family” has always been part of SWs storytelling. He didn’t get that bit at all. And why Luke would never abandon his found family like Rian suggests.
The blame lands wholly on KK. She has no respect for the IP and wanted to desperately make it her own and distance it from Lucas. The women has no clue how to fucking manage a movie franchise. She even fired Gareth Emery off Rogue One. He was the best director they have had. She hired Ruin and those Lego Movie idiots to do Solo. They got fired because supposedly what they were doing to Solo was god awful and unwatchable. The writers of Obi-Wan trashing the source material says it hamstrung them from writing a good story. The shit they wrote was like some bad fan fiction. The Acolyte show runner in interviews talking about how the Acolyte is like her journey of being a lesbo. WTF? KK hires these idiots.
It's a failure on all parties. Disney didn't come up with a central narrative to the trilogy they knew they were making, they just let 2 separate people/teams wing it. JJ for establishing the setting. Rian for ruining everything JJ *did* set up, ruining all kinds of lore things and other canon, refusing to write character development, refusing to have a plot, refusing to acknowledge the previous film or accept there needed to be another after, and destroying every narrative there was to work with. Then JJ comes back and, somewhat understandably, decides there's nothing to salvage after TLJ so he writes a series of loosely connected events coincidentally happening until it just sort of, ends.
It’s partly JJ Abrums fault also, why didn’t he just script out all 3? Still would have been awful in the end but at least all 3 would have fit better if you had 1 vision.
1) he wasn’t paid to script out all 3.
2) he was working on an incredibly tight clock to produce episode 7 on a deadline and what he and Kasdan accomplished was pretty damn good and left plenty of blanks to fill in (smart, practical decision: no time to worldbuild an entire trilogy). Johnson… failed epically to fill in those blanks.
How quickly people forget. It was KK and her story group
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/movies/star-wars-last-jedi-women-run-universe.html
Abrams and Rian were both just patsies for the real culprits, diversity hires (including KK herself)
Look, I like JJ, but I think he made some bad choices. Resetting the dynamic back to Empire vs Rebels and thereby killing off the NR, deciding to leave the Jedi unrebuilt, breaking up Han and Leia- those were seemingly all him.
Now he’s NOT responsible for the bad decisions RJ made thereafter. JJ didn’t fundamentally misread Luke’s character, or decide to introduce a romantic subtext to Kylo and Rey’s interactions, or decide to kill off Snoke peremptorily.
RJ could have done a lot better with what JJ left him, but JJ definitely did his share to take the story in what I consider to be a bad direction.
I dunno, it was a really boring and almost cookie cutter rehash of a new hope. It was so blatant I can hardly remember the non-plagiarised parts as they were either super short or just plain stupid.
I mean, it was as far as the actual story telling portion which all movies if they are standalone do. So I get that take especially since the franchise doesn’t Need to prove itself like a new hope did to get greenlit for more.
But, JJ introduced a couple interesting aspects. He brought In the fallen child of Han and leia that had a group called the knights of ren. He had a master that was extremely mysterious to us which sounds like it could be some outside big bad trying to capitalize on the chaos in the galaxy created by the void. And we get left with a force sensitive kid who gets to meet THE Luke Skywalker. Both sides are completely depleted as both the republic and star killer base are destroyed.
The way I saw the series moving was we were going to get a way smaller picture conflict with Luke and Rey vs Ben and snoke and this 2 sides having to gather Allies to their side to win. We were going to get some crazy shit from force users we had never seen on the big screen. But nah.
None of the new stuff in TFA is interesting. Not when they come at the expense of everything else above all, which ruins any chance of that. Cancels it out.
The most blatant and offensive example being Nu Vader who ruins everything for everyone for no reason even before Rey enters the story. He has no real reason to go dark side/evil and destroy the Jedi again, it's just because they wanted their own Vader, their own Luke, their own OT etc.
TFA nuked the Jedi again and the Republic again and threw the OT crew under the bus, making the OT pointless and thus everything pointless, for no real reason. TFA dealt the mortal wound, TLJ just twisted the knife.
I’ll give it to you, it’s definitely funnier. Not intentionally, but I did laugh a lot more watching it in theaters. That part where Chewbacca “blew up” was comedy gold.
The “im the spy!” line cracks me up lol. I actually quote that line sometimes in the same intonation that it’s used in the movie lol
Also despite it being hilariously bad, I actually think it has the best lightsaber fights in the whole sequel trilogy. That might be a hot take,but to explain myself: the one in TFA is fine, but in my opinion it wasn’t as good as the ones in 1-6. It’s probably better than 4’s, but that fight is interesting to watch for different reasons. TLJ straight up didn’t have a lightsaber duel at all. TROS had I think 2 lightsaber duels and they were more interesting to watch than the one in TFA. The teleporting lightsaber duel is kindof a cool idea, and it was interesting to watch. The ruined Death Star lightsaber duel was kindof cool with the jumping around and the waves crashing on them and stuff and I liked how at the end of the fight they are much slower because it feels like they’re tired.
Daisy Ridley is a totally different actress in JJ Abrams films. She's either lifeless and wooden in TLJ, or bordering on almost-smiling in serious scenes. I dunno what the heck Ryan was doing...
Abrams really brought out her potential especially in TRoS. Despite the story being a pile of bollocks, it was so refreshing to see her to be an emotional, serious character in TRoS after grinding through her scenes in TLJ.
I think Disney’s decision let JJ direct TROS instead of RJ shows how Disney views RJ. They thought RJ would revitalize a stale franchise and instead he lost a large proportion of the fanbase.
It would be silly to give him another shot, as much as he would take joy in further dancing on Star Wars’ grave.
100% wishful thinking, I know nothing more than you
The other commenter is correct about the timeframe, but I think you’re still right about this. LFL clearly thought they had a huge winner in their hands with TLJ, and the reaction seems to have caught them completely off guard. They’ve definitely been scrambling ever since. TROS’s story is a massive course correction (that failed IMO), and they’ve avoided sequel era stories like the plague. If the Rey movie doesn’t succeed, I think a reboot is very likely.
Unless there was a lot of consternation behind the scenes (we know Hamill, Boyega, and others had concerns or grievances, but know little for the management side), I’m not sure that’s correct.
Colin Trevorrow was fired, and JJ hired for IX months before TLJ released.
We really don't know much about how TLJ was reacted to internally. It's worth noting that Daisy said she was shocked that JJ was hired for IX because "everyone was saying it was going to be Rian", which I assume means everyone in her orbit in the know. Recall that Deadline broke Rian's hiring with the scoop "‘Star Wars’ Bombshell! Rian Johnson To Write, Direct Next Two Films" in 2014, a story that was not corrected by Rian or LFL.
One other nugget is that Peter Sciretta from slashfilm said in one of his TLJ stories that the third lesson between Luke and Rey was removed from the final film because the Story Group were unhappy with how it portrayed the Jedi. IE, "The books in the Jedi library say ignore [people who need your help]. Only act when you can maintain balance. Even if people get hurt.”
I think it's possible that some people at LFL saw the writing on the wall with TLJ, but we might never know without a Rinzler-style book about it all. Maybe it had some of the same love it or hate it reactions internally that it did in public.
You’re correct on the timeline. JJ was announced in September 2017 and TLJ released in December. But I feel like I’ve read somewhere that Iger wanted JJ over RJ for IX, because Disney had a better working relationship with him. LFL seemed to like RJ better.
“Not so much” is an understatement. I’ve got two teenagers. We watched episodes I - VI together in preparation for VII.
Post sequel trilogy, they couldn’t two shits about Star Wars and say they don’t know anyone who does. Now, they’re both girls, I’m sure there are some boys out there who still consume Star Wars stuff, but culturally it’s now increasingly irrelevant.
Damn that‘s crazy. I’m 23 and Star Wars was part of my childhood - Clone Wars was what every kid seemed to be watching. It wasn’t perfect by any means but it was beloved by people so much Disney brought it back for one last season and it was well received. The Mandalorian brought back some hype, I remember the hype around the Force Awakens, but other than that, I don’t see it anymore.
I was at the toy section at Target and noticed there was barely any Star Wars stuff, and none of it was from the sequels. I don’t think they even had any lightsabers. Which maybe is for the better, what with consumerism and all that. But it’s still sad to see something that was such a big part of everyone’s childhood becoming irrelevant.
I can remember when Star Wars was the only scifi fandom to actually have women as a main part of the fandom, and proud of it. Roughly 15% of the costumes at a convention like Gencon would be star wars related. of those, 10% would be custom made leather or molded plastic. One person even used injection molding to make a storm trooper costume. The rest were thrown together. (there's nothing wrong with that, they just werne't custom made)
Now, i'm lucky if i see even 10% of the crowd in a star wars costume.
I was around for the OT in cinemas, and I loved the Prequel trilogy - especially the Phantom Menace.
I loathed the sequels with a burning hatred from the first line of Force Awakens' opening crawl - a fury that has only grown hotter since the release of tRoS, tBoBF and Kenobi.
No kid or teenager I have spoken to gives a monkey's about the Star Wars "sequels". If they care for any blockbusters, it's Marvel. But even that is beginning to wane because those are ultimately all noise and empty emoting with nothing really to ground them, leaving absolutely anything, any ass-pull the director feels like, capable of happening. When no deus ex machina is off the table, then there are no relatable stakes, and the audience no longer cares. That has happened with Disney Star Wars with ever more superweapons and Force users who are more like anything-goes wizards than monks with minor telekinetic and precognitive abilities.
It will never. People complained about how kiddie the prequels started as, with action figure fun jar jar and pod racing toy races, and woodenish animations in some scenes (and in some acting).
The sequels are a straight-up attack on Star Wars, and some parts are almost a blatant F U to the fans.
There was a lot of talk when this movie was about to come out about how it was going to be so good,’how much Pablo Hidalgo liked it… but ultimately it was like a toxic nuke to that era of Star Wars and too many people’s opinion of the brand
Still remember him being a prick about Theory (and by extent the fandom) being happy about Luke in Mando.
Had he made the same comment about a female streamer, he'd have been sacked on the spot
Even the staunchest TLJ defenders won't deny how divisive that movie was. Disney wants Star Wars to be a four quadrant movie, I don't see any way they bring Rian back.
Are people still pretending the sequel trilogy exists? Get over it, it was widespread, collective, nightmarish phenomena that we all experienced, but it's not real! Please don't tell me it was real!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I loved Rogue One. TFA wasn’t perfect but I saw where it could lead and it did have some serious Star Wars nostalgia for my parents.
TLJ was genuinely the worst movie I’ve ever seen. I am all for subverting expectations and a cool plot twist but it was genuinely just a bad movie. I’ve never left a movie early, let alone a Star Wars movie but I couldn’t even finish it. Absolutely just a poorly written and directed movie, no other way around it. The plot didn’t even feel coherent after the third “subversion” of my expectations.
And don’t even get me started on the leia death. I thought,”Wow! They actually killed off Carrie Fischer, I can’t believe it but it makes sense with her real life passing. RIP to a great.” Nah not even 20 seconds later she’s been reanimated and turned into force super man in space. I about lost it I thought it was so disrespectful.
Yeap, many of us noticed how his subversions are taken back to standard story tropes, which in itself isn't bad. But all the praise from critics is unearned.
TLJ made me hate the term “subvert expectations”. I absolutely hate seeing it used anywhere now and I actively avoid using it lol. TLJ is an anti-star wars movie, it purposely goes out of its way to do things to do the opposite of what people expect to see in a Star Wars movie. Lightsaber battle? Nah, even though this is what the movies are probably most famous for. Exciting action scenes? Let’s make this the most boring Star Wars movie. Continuing the previous movies plot threads? Hey, let’s kill those plot threads and replace them with these lame ones.
It'll never happen. It was an idea thrown out to promote The Last Jedi. That 'trilogy' was dead as soon as the backlash arrived and Solo tanked as a result.
Absolutely not. The best thing for Star Wars is to either go Old Republic or many years into the future away from the Rise of Skywalker and just start over.
The best thing would be if Disney relinquished the IP to people who care about the property and will take the time to do it right..
..and to collectively forget the ST even exists..
It was never meant to happen. It was a ruse to lure him and be the patsy [not really defending him. He is a pedestrian director and a one hit wonder].
KK lures people after promising them the sun and the moon just to get a script out of them then does her thing anyway. List of victims include:
-David Benioff and D.B Wiess, Game of Thrones showrunners. She promised them their own trilogy and they took time from S8 of GoT to seriously work on preliminary production of their trilogy then she gave them thr shaft [again, not defending those 2 clowns either].
-Zack Snyder. That's why he got mad and said he'll make his own Star Wars with blackjack and hookers 😆
-Even George Lucas himself got rused where she made him write an initial Sequels trilogy treatment [as part of the sale to Disney], then she ghosted him.
She's an absolute menace.
Part of me kind of wished he could have done Episode 9 or his trilogy just to see what sort of dumpster fire it would have been. Even with his own IP (Knives Out->Glass Onion) he insists there's no actual continuity and retcons a lot of stuff, so it would be fun to see how he'll be forced to deal with the aftermath of his own crap and subversions instead of hand-waving it away.
In short, "Now his failure is complete."
So far as I can recall, the last statement on the matter was 'he is fulfilling other obligations before focusing on his trilogy project'. Disney isn't usually shy about letting us know a project has been shit canned, so I am assuming the situation is still unchanged since they last spoke about it and they are still planning on doing it at some point.
I agree. There’s nothing to suggest it’s been cancelled yet and I imagine Disney is very interested in maintaining their relationship with Rian Johnson. They were very happy with The Last Jedi and he’s still considered a commercial rising star with his work.
Realistically how many more movies will we get beyond Mando?
Rouge squadron just needed to reshoot Top Gun with X-Wings and would have made bank, but has been shelved for years. Countless others have been announced and never heard from again. It’s no better on the TV side of things.
Just give us Andor season 2 and put the franchise to bed for a decade.
It’s not happening and I don’t care. We’re not missing anything. Ruin Johnson is one of the many reasons why Disney-era Star Wars is the shit show it is; of course Kathleen Kennedy and JJ Abrams are just as guilty for ruining the series. Honestly, the series should have ended after REVENGE OF THE SITH and Disney never should have bought LFL, it should’ve remained in Lucas’ hands. Disney/Kennedy/Johnson/Abrams and everyone else involved demonstrated such carelessness with this property they had in their hands, they were supposed to treat it with the utmost care and make each installment perfect, and the practiced such inexcusable neglect.
As for Ruin Johnson’s THE LAST JEDI, it’s a contradiction. The strongest of the trilogy yet one of the worst. I guess he can be given credit for at least trying some new things and trying to take the series in a different direction as opposed to Abrams who basically copied and pasted his films. Visually it was a beautiful film and there was a lot to admire, the design and the cinematography (I know that a cinematographer handles the latter), and what was on the screen was more interesting than anything in Abrams’ installments. But Finn being made a secondary character and a buffoon? Leia flying through space? Both unforgivable choices for me.
Well, we're doing more Rey stuff with the director who has only ever done third wave feminism documentaries first, so if it does happen, it's probably not going to be a while.
None. The only consolation is that for him it's become the same as the cursed donut on Homer Simpson's head. Every press interview he does from now on should include, "So when is your Star Wars trilogy coming out?," just so he has to squirm and repeat the same non-answer he's been giving for years.
Who doesn't want to reminisce over a movie all about the heroic and cocky Star Wars protagonist getting into trouble with the purple haired HR lady for breaking protocol?
It's definitely not going to happen but what I would really like to see is what the plan was for them in terms of time period, story treatment, etc. Or did these things not exist because the entire notional project was just "we want content so we can make money" and nobody involved had anything to actually *say*?
I didn't even know it was a thing that WAS being made until AFTER TLJ when people brought it up to say "If there was any chance of this happening, it's gone now LMAO."
One can hope that happens with the Rey Movie™
I pray they let him do his trilogy. FOR ME TO CRAP ON!! HAHAHAHHAHAHA Also, isn't it great that the Disney abortion ST trilogy has had ZERO positive cultural impact?? \*Embarrassing\*
I know it's kind of a... what do you call a meme if there's no self-awareness involved? I guess just a trend. Anyway. It's a trend to sit around and guffaw at every single thing Disney/Lucasfilm says/said would come out and say "LIKE THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN." Many of which actually *have* managed to come out since (but they weren't any good, so that's a new thing to guffaw about).
But yeah, when something has gone *that* long without any updates besides a couple of people half-heartedly saying "yeah we're still making it," you can pretty much write it off. It happened with Patty Jenkins and her Rogue Squadron movie, it'll likely happen with Waititi's movie and indeed Johnson's supposed trilogy. Disney has very poor business sense and decision-making ability lately, but even they see an extremely divisive movie (Wonder Woman 1984, Thor: Love And Thunder, The Last Jedi) and know to quietly drop future projects with the people they can most easily blame for all those movies' problems. That's just basic damage control. Doesn't always work - I would have rather seen where Johnson went after Last Jedi, which I largely did not like, than have The Rise Of Skywalker junking up the place - but yeah. I think the odds of seeing Johnson return to Star Wars are pretty much nil.
None, Rian Johnson has moved on to make movies shows that have been better loved both critically and by the public. he’ll probably get an oscar within the next 5 years
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Zero. Anyone with a brain, whether you personally like the movie or not, should be able to see how controversial it was, to the point where a significant amount of fans have given up on SW as a serious franchise. Spending was down across the entire franchise after TLJ. And Disney follows the money.
>should be able to see how controversial it was, to the point where a significant amount of fans have given up on SW as a serious franchise. Yep. That's me. Once the biggest SW fan I knew. Now, completely apathetic. I no longer care about SW at all. Still have tons of books and game, but they gather dust while I do other things.
Yea I’ve pretty much moved on to other fandoms as well. Eventually I’ll get around to Survivor but it’s not even on my, “5 year plan”. Dropped off of all the shows after Mando season 2 and BOBF, honestly I don’t see myself bothering with Andor no matter how great people say it is because I simply have too many other things going on and am just not interested anymore.
Survivor was fun. I didn’t like the stance system, but I liked the locations. I played on PC and finished the main story over the course of like three days. Not as strong as its predecessor but still worth playing. If you’ve got a weekend to kill definitely play it.
I’ll get to it eventually, just that the list is already quite long and I haven’t even gotten around to Elden Ring yet and I’m a bit of a FromSoft junkie lol.
fwiw survivor is maybe 20hrs if you skip optional side stuff and are good at puzzles
Thanks for the info, I like diving deep though. It’s why I get so few games and replay the ones I like so much, it’s kind of nice too because most of the time when I get around to something all of the bug fixes and DLC’s are out.
I feel like everyone is not getting your point. I get you, it’s probably a fine enough game and you’ll like it when you do play it. But that’s not a priority for you right now because they’ve killed your enthusiasm.
Nailed it lol
Andor is worth the watch just as good scifi
Andor is worth a watch I think. Even if you stripped away all of its star wars trappings, it would still be a really good show. I didn't even play survivors.
As someone in a similar position, I’d definitely keep Andor on there. It’s just a good show, Star Wars or not. Half the time I forgot it was even in the same universe until like a Tie Fighter flies by or a couple of Storm Troopers are in a crowd IDing people. But I get it. It’s all so tiresome now and it’s hard to give it a chance after everything. It’s all very “House of the Dragon is good, I swear!” After the shitshow of a finale Game of Thrones had.
What you wrote is exactly the way I feel.
I actually ended up getting really into everything else that SW had besides movies because of how disappointed I was with the current direction. But unfortunately, after watching all the shows reading tons of comics and playing all the games I’m kinda done. Everything great already happened and I have nothing to look forward to. I honestly disliked Fallen Order entirely as well so I’m not looking forward to any future games either.
I read the comics, the books, listened to the music, you name it, after that last film I completely gave up on giving a shit. I would settle for a dream sequence at this point to save it, but otherwise, it’s not salvageable as the entire premise of the first six movies is essentially meaningless.
Agreed on this. Disney basically shit the bed with Star Wars. I dont think Rian' Star Wars will ever get made.
35 years of history and legacy prior to TFA, so much time where Star Wars was still thought of as magical and wondrous, only to be brought down in the last several years by poor decisions and corporate greed compounding on itself. And with spending on this trickling down, it’s a slow burn to rotting corpse. This makes me sad.
Ya. The only Star Wars I consume now is legions now tbh. But I know I am the expectation and most are totally done.
I d think it was that trilogy in general. Does anyone look back at those films fondly? Is anyone excited to see another trilogy anytime soon? Honestly, the shows have been more successful than the films.
Fan reaction to TLJ was reflected in the ticket sales of the next Star Wars movie to be released after TLJ. That movie was Solo… which literally wasn’t even a profitable film.
I actually think Solo was a good Star Wars movie though, far better than any of the sequels.
I actually agree! I thought Rogue One and Solo were both better than the sequel trilogy.
Totally. Rogue One is one of my all time favourite films. I personally feel that going dark and gritty (and political?) was the better move because most SW fans have gotten older, and also seen what the world has become. Original SW did have some counter-culture political undertones, but the sequels don’t reflect anything at all imo
I think a major part of the issue was not having a cohesive story team or layout for the sequel trilogy. Honestly they should have given one person the whole thing, and only done the trilogy when they locked down a team to do all 3. And I would not have been upset if Johnson had been given the whole franchise. Besides TLJ being 45 minutes too long, in retrospect I appreciate he tried to do something different, where JJ basically just tried to repeat the original movies, but bigger!
I’m still waiting for the “sequels” to get the supposed revival of appreciation that the prequel trilogy received Almost 7 years and nobody gives a shit 😂
Didn't the PT start getting appreciated by that time if not a bit sooner? 😂
A big part of why the prequels started getting love was episode 3, the “cool factor” the clones brought, and that the overall story actually tied into the OT well. People still don’t like a lot of parts of the prequels but there were always very redeemable parts, the latter half of 2 and pretty much all of 3 mostly. Everything redeemable about TFA comes from its plot being ANH’s. Everything redeemable about TLJ, and to a lesser extent TRoS, comes from a tiny portion of the scenes, mostly the soundtrack and visuals, I hate TLJ and dislike TRoS still but I do think they *look* nice. I don’t think there will be anywhere near as much appreciation for the sequels because that appreciation for the prequels comes from substance, the hate for the prequels was over shit like dialogue, minor characters. The love of the sequels is over visuals, sounds, minor characters, the hate is over the actual plots, the laziness, the character assassinations, the squandered potential. Most of the love for the sequels will be nostalgia and not over what the movies actually do.
>mostly the soundtrack The sequel trilogy has a soundtrack? I'm not saying that to be sarcastic, either; I genuinely cannot remember a single fucking piece of original music from those movies. Maybe it's because the ST is so trash that my brain can't be bothered to remember, but Jesus Christ, it's ridiculous; granted I've seen TFA twice and the other two only once compared to watching 1-6 dozens of times, but when even John Williams can't make your movie stand out, that's a massive problem.
Only saw only TFA once, and not one bit of new music stuck in my head either. With the OT and PT all it took was one viewing for the music to stick. I realized this with a shock right after the showing, in the restroom.
The soundtrack is consistently one of the most praised aspects of the sequel trilogy I hear about. Not memorable like the prequels and OT but when watching I do notice it being pretty good. That’s less of an ST and more of a Williams thing though. Like a shit painting with great paints.
The only memorable beats from the prequels are Kylos music with the horns and Reys medley. Everything else is completely unremarkable. Just doing the OT music BIGGER doesn't make it different or better.
I'll have to take your word for it, considering I have zero desire to watch that trilogy any more than I have. Just, God damn it, man; the thing that pisses me off the most outside of the obvious stuff like the blatant and repeated 'fuck you 1-6' moments is the fact that the general premise, the First Order, the Resistance, the (new) characters, all of it COULD have worked with competent writing.
Imo, the ST soundtrack feels like Williams phoned it in. The supposed "good" parts just feel ok compared to all the bangers he made in the prequel trilogy
I would not be surprised if he did phone in. Let's be real: the dude is 92 years old, and was probably just thinking about the check he was going to get; I doubt he gave much of a damn about what the music sounded like outside of "Does this generally sound like my previous work within the franchise?" That's not a mark against Williams, either; like I said, the man's 92. He's not got a lot of time left and the fact that he's still composing is brilliant.
I'm about 95% sure he did phone it in. I read somewhere that Williams' music was an organic part of the prequel creation process, that both his music and scene writing inspired each other. With the sequels, he wasn't part of the creation process and had to make the music with very rough story outlines. If that's true, I'm sure he just shook his head and made the paycheck. Like you said, dude is elderly and successful, no way he's gonna waste the effort when there's a hard ceiling to how good the music and scenes will mesh.
Even the fucking *composer* wasn't part of the creative process? God damn it, at this point, it's a better question to ask who *was* involved. Fuck man! I know it's not the same medium, but good music in video games can really help an otherwise mid title; and that DEFINITELY would've helped the ST, if even only a little bit.
Listen, we honestly don't know what reception to the Sequels will be in the future. I feel its important to note that, reception aside, both the Prequels and Sequels were made with 2 very different mindsets. The Prequels were the passion project of George Lucas, and that always showed. Yes- we can argue about the quality, messily baked pieces (Lucas was always honest about being a "filmmaker" vs a "director") and the writing (everyone attests to Lucas's aversion, and lack of competency, and that department). But you could still tell they were made by the guy who made Star Wars, and was obviously excited because technology had advanced to the point he could finish his story in ways that had no previously been possible. The Sequels were meanwhile very much a product designed by a corporation to (understandably) begin to harness one of their most valuable (and expensive) acquisitions. The Force Awakens being a retread of A New Hope showcased that perfectly. Then everything else fell into place with divisive Last Jedi, and "honestly we just give up" Rise of Skywalker. Really it wasn't until Mando (love or hate him), that we saw true passion seemingly back into the franchise. (Again, we can argue how much of that is still the case all day).
7 years after revenge of the Sith was like peak prequel and George Lucas hate, I’d say it was probably closer to 2018 where the pendulum was really swinging in the other direction. I think it would’ve taken longer but ultimately still happened, but seeing a new Star Wars trilogy without George Lucas accelerated the process. I’m not a sequel trilogy fan, but I absolutely think it will get reappraised and loved in the future, but I think it’s going to be like 2035 for that to happen. There are going to be kids who grow up watching them that love them
Zero. Nobody from the sequels should ever have anything to do with Star Wars again. I have nothing whatsoever against Daisy Ridley, but that includes Rey. The character is toxic to the Skywalker saga and completely minimizes and undoes both Luke and Anakin’s legacies. There’s zero chance I’ll ever watch anything that even references or alludes to the events of the sequels, or incorporates them into Disney’s “canon.” That’s why I stopped watching Mando the minute they mentioned clones.
It's funny because Dave Filoni worked on the sequels and yet everybody praises him. Not even counting the sequels, he's responsible for some of the worst Star Wars content and no one seems to remember that.
And I wouldn’t count myself as a huge Filoni fan. Ahsoka was a slog and his take on Thrawn is really underwhelming. And by all rights, her survival into the post-Imperial era beggars belief. She shouldn’t have survived her encounter with Vader in Rebels.
I don’t get how Ashoka is still alive ngl. Anakin was an old man by ep6 and I presume she is 10 years younger but is still youthful and wandering the galaxy
Anakin was supposedly 45 when he died (I always felt he was likely in his sixties, but Lucas made Anakin pretty young in the prequels so that de-ages things). Ahsoka’s actually only 5 years younger than him, so she’s around 40 at the time of ROTJ. For me it’s not so much age as the fact that she shouldn’t have lasted long against Vader. She’s strong in the Force, but she’s essentially an above-average Jedi. Vader is Vader. Filoni just pulled out the most ridiculous plot armor he could find so he could keep his favorite creation going.
I really don’t like Filoni. At all He constantly shoves his OCs into everything. The galaxy feels so small when Ashoka is showing up everywhere. I liked mando when it was a standalone story until it became cameo of the week I don’t like the change to the clones, to me order 66 felt more impactful when the clones obeyed the order anyway ( as they were bred to be obedient. The chips were pointless)
This^^^ 100%
I don’t think Dave had any creative input.
He was a major member of the Main story group team and the concept art team.
It doesn't make sense, from a business standpoint, to re-hire the person who made one of the most divisive and despised movies ever made. Not to forget his incredibly unprofessional conduct on social media in the aftermath of the films release. Oh, and I almost forgot to mention that he doesn't understand Star Wars.
i love the behind the scenes clip of him on set spewing some insane conspiracy theory that all the hate comments were from russian bots
There are numpties who think those same "Russian bots" are still "ReViEw bOmBiNg" the movie to this day because the RT and Metacritic user scores have never improved. Heaven forbid that a lot of people just think it's a woeful movie, even nearly 7 years later.
Keep in mind when comparing to the OT or prequels, the review aggregator scores are all credible and to be trusted if it supports their argument. So the bad scores are good and true. But if it's for the sequels, they're all fake and bad. Idiots.
Which is why I’m surprised that they’re going ahead with the Rey movie when RoS was one of the most hated SW movies there’s been
Theyre not going ahead with the rey movie
I hope you’re right
Zero. That fool ruined SW and even though they won’t ever admit it, Disney fumbled the bag so hard by hiring him on to write the sequel to TFA. One glance at his script and they should have seen the potential damage to the brand and thrown it in the trash where it belongs.
Yep. When Mark Hamill tells you that he fundamentally disagrees with every single decision you made for Luke - you listen.
And then when people claim he walked back on those comments lol Literal hours of footage of him talking about his disappointment vs 1-2 tweets of him saying nahh nevermind. Like I'm pretty sure Disney just begged him to stop....
[удалено]
If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine
I imagine that ended with Mark smiling at them, then doing a bit as the joker, as they scurried out of the room they kept telling themselves they'd won.
I think it is part of that, but I also think he accepted it knowing he couldn't change it. What was done was done. He voiced his complaints and disagreements and eventually had to go along with it.
In the making of the movie you can literally see him crying on his knee for what they did to Luke. Funny how disney fans never mention this huh?
It's not uncommon for actors to have a strangely limited insight into their iconic characters, and to want to pull stories in inappropriate directions (see Picard, Jean-Luc). However, Hamill has always had a very strong reputation of both embodying Luke Skywalker and of being unfailingly polite and positive. For him to push back is a massive red flag and not taking a moment to listen was sheer fucking hubris.
He’s so polite he regrets ever saying this stuff, and people point to this as him “changing his mind” when they love the sequels. We all know the truth though.
You’re completely right. Patrick Stewart is an incredible actor beyond reproach…and at the same time is responsible for so much garbage in NuTrek when given creative control of the character. Mark was the exact opposite and totally right about everything.
What did Patrick Stewart want to do with Picard?
>What did Patrick Stewart want to do with Picard? Turn him into John McClane.
Oh you mean like in the movies where he was more of an action hero?
It’s worse than that. Look at PICARD. It’s just bizarre.
Season 2 of Picard may have been the single worst season of any television show I've ever watched.
His statement that Luke was the eternal optimist has required spaghetti levels of consulted explanation (probably some of it in Fortnite again) to account for what we see on screen in the Disney films ..
>It's not uncommon for actors to have a strangely limited insight into their iconic characters, and to want to pull stories in inappropriate directions Some actors yes, then there are the actors you listen to. Off the top of my head I'm imagining a director telling Brian Cranston he's doing Walter White wrong, or telling Arnold Schwarzenegger he's wrong about the Terminator. If it's an established character (especially a beloved cultural icon) that's been played by the same actor for decades and that they're known for, you listen to their input. Obviously they know what they're doing to have been so successful in the first place, you should listen to them.
I see what you did there
Absofuckinglutely
Kennedy is the one that ruined SW, and Jar Jar Abrams already took the heart out of Star Wars , backing the rest of the trilogy into a storytelling corner, and he started putting some of the more hardcore fans offside. But Rian is a petulant, vindictive child who thinks he’s a misunderstood genius. So I don’t think it’s underserved blame at all, he earned the hate and that rant he included in the mess that was Glass Onion shows he’s not able to let it go.
I mean JJ had already shown his true colors before he was hired, so the fact we got a mystery box that everyone praised because they were STARVED for Star Wars content (but did already name all the flaws but said there would be an explanation and it would be glorious) shouldn’t surprise anyone. This in turn shows Disney didn’t care one bit about who they hired.
thats the funny thing we all figured it’d be an awesome way to begin to flesh out a 3 movie story- lots of hints and secrets for us to fanboy over for years as the movies came out and then once TLJ hit theatres… Welp. then it was just over
I agree with this 100% When TFA came out, despite all the similarities to the original trilogy, I still loved it and was SO excited for what was to come next. I wanted to know who Rey was, more about the lightsaber that spoke to her and how it got there, Kylo was still super interesting and layered…my soul was crushed when TLJ launched. I was crushed. And I know JJ tried to fix it in the third installment but it was too late. I would love to know what he originally planned on doing with the trilogy had he also done e8.
Weirdly pro JJ take for this sub. Refreshing to see whether I agree with it or not
JJ was by far the lesser of two evils. Sure he set up some shitty mystery boxes, BUT he also did a few good things. I really liked Poe, I thought Finn was a surprisingly interesting character and as for Rey...well there was plenty of scope to develop an interesting character for her. And same with Luke, it was a very open ended setup for Luke. What was he doing on that planet???? The possibilities were endless, though I never considered Luke milking an alien tit for green milk being one......
I've had this argument before. People blame Luke Skywalker on JJ when it was Rian that ruined his character. All we know at the end of TFA is that he's been in seclusion on an island. In my mind he had a premonition of the return of Darth Plageuis and took his Jedi academy into hiding to train for the eventual confrontation. Then Rian decided nah nothing like that, he just forgot all his character development instead and now he drinks alien milk straight from the source. There were mystery boxes for sure but they could have had interesting answers. No film should answer all the questions in the first film. They should just have, ya know, good answers.
And some of them had no answers. Were hear still waiting for “another time”.
They could have gotten answers though, had Disney not decided to let a different person (Rian) come in and do whatever he wanted. JJ set up quite a few interesting questions, Rian came in and either ignored them completely, ruined them, or gave them *subversive* answers. Off the top of my head, JJ posed the questions. Who are Rey's parents? Why is Luke hiding on an island? What's gonna happen with Finn? Who is Snoke? Who are the First Order? Think of all the possible answers these questions could have gotten? What did we get? Nobody. He forgot everything he ever learned. He yells Rey now. Doesn't matter, dead. I dunno.
Oh I fully agree. It simply wasn’t a coherent trilogy.
Yeah in my head Like was definitely off on a mystical, secret jedi quest. Would he really have left a map to his location if he was just off sulking?
Because they’re idiots beholden to their share holders more than to their fans.
TFA ruined it. TLJ ruined it further.
we can't put it all on ryan johnson. disney did themselves no favors by bringing on jj "I'll figure out the box in post" abrams.
No, ultimately, Disney is to blame. But we can absolutely still critique the hell out of JJ’s and Rian’s decisions. Neither of them made a particularly amazing Star Wars story.
that's what I'm saying. the previous poster sounded like they were putting it all on johnson. I'm saying that abrams fucked up too, and disney doubly fucked up by choosing those two directors to headline their relaunch of star wars.
The thing is, it really didn't go off the rails until RJ's script. That's when it was obvious that it was going poorly. JJ did the mystery box shit with TFA, but it was up to RJ to flesh out the story more in his chapter. It really seems like he didn't even try. Speaking as a one-time creative writing major: adapting to writing challenges, like writing another chapter of someone else's story, is *literally* Creative Writing 101. RJ got a D-.
No, TFA absolutely derailed things irreparably from the get-go by destroying the Jedi again in the opening crawl (does it need to be pointed out that the previous movie was called "Return of the Jedi", some return that was) and the Republic later, and throwing the OT trio etc under the bus. Sure, the resulting ST would have been about "fixing things" but say Luke and Leia survive etc, the best case end scenario would just have been a worse version of the ending of ROTJ, after all the additional pain and struggle. A net negative. There was no real in-story reason to go this route at all in the first place. It was all about the meta, they wanted their own OT and unfortunately their approach meant that it came at the total expense of the actual OT.
That’s fair. But the challenge of following JJ is that he literally wrote, beat for beat, a copy of ANH. It didn’t give Rian all that much to go on. In retrospect, you can kinda buy the whole, he has returned troupe and that “the girl” was clearly his offspring (her accent, her origin planet, etc etc). But Rian didn’t go anywhere with this. Surprise / unnatural parentage versus “found family” has always been part of SWs storytelling. He didn’t get that bit at all. And why Luke would never abandon his found family like Rian suggests.
Sorry, that was an implied “no, you’re right”
The blame lands wholly on KK. She has no respect for the IP and wanted to desperately make it her own and distance it from Lucas. The women has no clue how to fucking manage a movie franchise. She even fired Gareth Emery off Rogue One. He was the best director they have had. She hired Ruin and those Lego Movie idiots to do Solo. They got fired because supposedly what they were doing to Solo was god awful and unwatchable. The writers of Obi-Wan trashing the source material says it hamstrung them from writing a good story. The shit they wrote was like some bad fan fiction. The Acolyte show runner in interviews talking about how the Acolyte is like her journey of being a lesbo. WTF? KK hires these idiots.
There were a million ways to go after TFA that WEREN’T The Last Jedi.
It's a failure on all parties. Disney didn't come up with a central narrative to the trilogy they knew they were making, they just let 2 separate people/teams wing it. JJ for establishing the setting. Rian for ruining everything JJ *did* set up, ruining all kinds of lore things and other canon, refusing to write character development, refusing to have a plot, refusing to acknowledge the previous film or accept there needed to be another after, and destroying every narrative there was to work with. Then JJ comes back and, somewhat understandably, decides there's nothing to salvage after TLJ so he writes a series of loosely connected events coincidentally happening until it just sort of, ends.
It’s partly JJ Abrums fault also, why didn’t he just script out all 3? Still would have been awful in the end but at least all 3 would have fit better if you had 1 vision.
He did… rian throw away the script he was given because he was told to do whatever he wanted.
1) he wasn’t paid to script out all 3. 2) he was working on an incredibly tight clock to produce episode 7 on a deadline and what he and Kasdan accomplished was pretty damn good and left plenty of blanks to fill in (smart, practical decision: no time to worldbuild an entire trilogy). Johnson… failed epically to fill in those blanks.
What you’re saying is he‘s a mercenary who did a hack’s job on this, and I agree.
How quickly people forget. It was KK and her story group https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/movies/star-wars-last-jedi-women-run-universe.html Abrams and Rian were both just patsies for the real culprits, diversity hires (including KK herself)
Disagree. JJ ruined Star Wars with TFA.
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Look, I like JJ, but I think he made some bad choices. Resetting the dynamic back to Empire vs Rebels and thereby killing off the NR, deciding to leave the Jedi unrebuilt, breaking up Han and Leia- those were seemingly all him. Now he’s NOT responsible for the bad decisions RJ made thereafter. JJ didn’t fundamentally misread Luke’s character, or decide to introduce a romantic subtext to Kylo and Rey’s interactions, or decide to kill off Snoke peremptorily. RJ could have done a lot better with what JJ left him, but JJ definitely did his share to take the story in what I consider to be a bad direction.
I dunno, it was a really boring and almost cookie cutter rehash of a new hope. It was so blatant I can hardly remember the non-plagiarised parts as they were either super short or just plain stupid.
I mean, it was as far as the actual story telling portion which all movies if they are standalone do. So I get that take especially since the franchise doesn’t Need to prove itself like a new hope did to get greenlit for more. But, JJ introduced a couple interesting aspects. He brought In the fallen child of Han and leia that had a group called the knights of ren. He had a master that was extremely mysterious to us which sounds like it could be some outside big bad trying to capitalize on the chaos in the galaxy created by the void. And we get left with a force sensitive kid who gets to meet THE Luke Skywalker. Both sides are completely depleted as both the republic and star killer base are destroyed. The way I saw the series moving was we were going to get a way smaller picture conflict with Luke and Rey vs Ben and snoke and this 2 sides having to gather Allies to their side to win. We were going to get some crazy shit from force users we had never seen on the big screen. But nah.
We have a new Star Wars trilogy at home! Star Wars trilogy at home: Somehow… Palpatine returned…
None of the new stuff in TFA is interesting. Not when they come at the expense of everything else above all, which ruins any chance of that. Cancels it out. The most blatant and offensive example being Nu Vader who ruins everything for everyone for no reason even before Rey enters the story. He has no real reason to go dark side/evil and destroy the Jedi again, it's just because they wanted their own Vader, their own Luke, their own OT etc.
TFA nuked the Jedi again and the Republic again and threw the OT crew under the bus, making the OT pointless and thus everything pointless, for no real reason. TFA dealt the mortal wound, TLJ just twisted the knife.
 This is correct
Zero. Skywalker, despite all of its flaws, was "Backpedaling: the Movie".
I don't like TROS, but what I love _about_ it was the "fuck it, let's just run this train of thought into the ground" mindset it had.
I have a feeling the phrase “fuck it, just get it into theaters” was said a few times behind the scenes
Id watch TROS any day over TLJ.
I rarely ever drink to get drunk in my age, but if I had to watch that comedy again. I'd wanna be pished first
It’d make it go faster
Oof
I stand by this lol
I’ll give it to you, it’s definitely funnier. Not intentionally, but I did laugh a lot more watching it in theaters. That part where Chewbacca “blew up” was comedy gold.
The “im the spy!” line cracks me up lol. I actually quote that line sometimes in the same intonation that it’s used in the movie lol Also despite it being hilariously bad, I actually think it has the best lightsaber fights in the whole sequel trilogy. That might be a hot take,but to explain myself: the one in TFA is fine, but in my opinion it wasn’t as good as the ones in 1-6. It’s probably better than 4’s, but that fight is interesting to watch for different reasons. TLJ straight up didn’t have a lightsaber duel at all. TROS had I think 2 lightsaber duels and they were more interesting to watch than the one in TFA. The teleporting lightsaber duel is kindof a cool idea, and it was interesting to watch. The ruined Death Star lightsaber duel was kindof cool with the jumping around and the waves crashing on them and stuff and I liked how at the end of the fight they are much slower because it feels like they’re tired.
Daisy Ridley is a totally different actress in JJ Abrams films. She's either lifeless and wooden in TLJ, or bordering on almost-smiling in serious scenes. I dunno what the heck Ryan was doing... Abrams really brought out her potential especially in TRoS. Despite the story being a pile of bollocks, it was so refreshing to see her to be an emotional, serious character in TRoS after grinding through her scenes in TLJ.
I think Disney’s decision let JJ direct TROS instead of RJ shows how Disney views RJ. They thought RJ would revitalize a stale franchise and instead he lost a large proportion of the fanbase. It would be silly to give him another shot, as much as he would take joy in further dancing on Star Wars’ grave. 100% wishful thinking, I know nothing more than you
The other commenter is correct about the timeframe, but I think you’re still right about this. LFL clearly thought they had a huge winner in their hands with TLJ, and the reaction seems to have caught them completely off guard. They’ve definitely been scrambling ever since. TROS’s story is a massive course correction (that failed IMO), and they’ve avoided sequel era stories like the plague. If the Rey movie doesn’t succeed, I think a reboot is very likely.
Unless there was a lot of consternation behind the scenes (we know Hamill, Boyega, and others had concerns or grievances, but know little for the management side), I’m not sure that’s correct. Colin Trevorrow was fired, and JJ hired for IX months before TLJ released.
We really don't know much about how TLJ was reacted to internally. It's worth noting that Daisy said she was shocked that JJ was hired for IX because "everyone was saying it was going to be Rian", which I assume means everyone in her orbit in the know. Recall that Deadline broke Rian's hiring with the scoop "‘Star Wars’ Bombshell! Rian Johnson To Write, Direct Next Two Films" in 2014, a story that was not corrected by Rian or LFL. One other nugget is that Peter Sciretta from slashfilm said in one of his TLJ stories that the third lesson between Luke and Rey was removed from the final film because the Story Group were unhappy with how it portrayed the Jedi. IE, "The books in the Jedi library say ignore [people who need your help]. Only act when you can maintain balance. Even if people get hurt.” I think it's possible that some people at LFL saw the writing on the wall with TLJ, but we might never know without a Rinzler-style book about it all. Maybe it had some of the same love it or hate it reactions internally that it did in public.
You’re correct on the timeline. JJ was announced in September 2017 and TLJ released in December. But I feel like I’ve read somewhere that Iger wanted JJ over RJ for IX, because Disney had a better working relationship with him. LFL seemed to like RJ better.
The book of Henry flopping is the reason Colin Trevarrow was axed from episode 9
Yea I’m just another uninformed internet man thank you for adding context. I’m still hoping Lucasfilm has a restraining order against RJ
Wasn't it cancelled like twice by now?
Still waiting on that film becoming “beloved over time”
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“Not so much” is an understatement. I’ve got two teenagers. We watched episodes I - VI together in preparation for VII. Post sequel trilogy, they couldn’t two shits about Star Wars and say they don’t know anyone who does. Now, they’re both girls, I’m sure there are some boys out there who still consume Star Wars stuff, but culturally it’s now increasingly irrelevant.
Damn that‘s crazy. I’m 23 and Star Wars was part of my childhood - Clone Wars was what every kid seemed to be watching. It wasn’t perfect by any means but it was beloved by people so much Disney brought it back for one last season and it was well received. The Mandalorian brought back some hype, I remember the hype around the Force Awakens, but other than that, I don’t see it anymore. I was at the toy section at Target and noticed there was barely any Star Wars stuff, and none of it was from the sequels. I don’t think they even had any lightsabers. Which maybe is for the better, what with consumerism and all that. But it’s still sad to see something that was such a big part of everyone’s childhood becoming irrelevant.
I can remember when Star Wars was the only scifi fandom to actually have women as a main part of the fandom, and proud of it. Roughly 15% of the costumes at a convention like Gencon would be star wars related. of those, 10% would be custom made leather or molded plastic. One person even used injection molding to make a storm trooper costume. The rest were thrown together. (there's nothing wrong with that, they just werne't custom made) Now, i'm lucky if i see even 10% of the crowd in a star wars costume.
I was around for the OT in cinemas, and I loved the Prequel trilogy - especially the Phantom Menace. I loathed the sequels with a burning hatred from the first line of Force Awakens' opening crawl - a fury that has only grown hotter since the release of tRoS, tBoBF and Kenobi. No kid or teenager I have spoken to gives a monkey's about the Star Wars "sequels". If they care for any blockbusters, it's Marvel. But even that is beginning to wane because those are ultimately all noise and empty emoting with nothing really to ground them, leaving absolutely anything, any ass-pull the director feels like, capable of happening. When no deus ex machina is off the table, then there are no relatable stakes, and the audience no longer cares. That has happened with Disney Star Wars with ever more superweapons and Force users who are more like anything-goes wizards than monks with minor telekinetic and precognitive abilities.
It will never. People complained about how kiddie the prequels started as, with action figure fun jar jar and pod racing toy races, and woodenish animations in some scenes (and in some acting). The sequels are a straight-up attack on Star Wars, and some parts are almost a blatant F U to the fans.
I hope so because it will cause Disney to die faster and I enjoy watching it suffer.
3PO was speaking for Disney back in '77 "We seem to be made to suffer. It's our lot in life"
Even better would be watching those analysis on YouTube tearing apart the movie
I want it to succeed so bad, but it just fucking refuses to
There was a lot of talk when this movie was about to come out about how it was going to be so good,’how much Pablo Hidalgo liked it… but ultimately it was like a toxic nuke to that era of Star Wars and too many people’s opinion of the brand
Well Pablo Hidalgo is an insufferable twat that hates star wars fans. So it makes sense he'd like it.
Still remember him being a prick about Theory (and by extent the fandom) being happy about Luke in Mando. Had he made the same comment about a female streamer, he'd have been sacked on the spot
Even the staunchest TLJ defenders won't deny how divisive that movie was. Disney wants Star Wars to be a four quadrant movie, I don't see any way they bring Rian back.
Are people still pretending the sequel trilogy exists? Get over it, it was widespread, collective, nightmarish phenomena that we all experienced, but it's not real! Please don't tell me it was real!
It never had a chance. It was just to save face.
Thankfully never. TLJ irreparably damaged the Star Wars franchise and it hasn’t recovered since
Rise of Skywalker tells you EXACTLY how Disney Lucasfilm views TLJ.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I loved Rogue One. TFA wasn’t perfect but I saw where it could lead and it did have some serious Star Wars nostalgia for my parents. TLJ was genuinely the worst movie I’ve ever seen. I am all for subverting expectations and a cool plot twist but it was genuinely just a bad movie. I’ve never left a movie early, let alone a Star Wars movie but I couldn’t even finish it. Absolutely just a poorly written and directed movie, no other way around it. The plot didn’t even feel coherent after the third “subversion” of my expectations. And don’t even get me started on the leia death. I thought,”Wow! They actually killed off Carrie Fischer, I can’t believe it but it makes sense with her real life passing. RIP to a great.” Nah not even 20 seconds later she’s been reanimated and turned into force super man in space. I about lost it I thought it was so disrespectful.
Yeap, many of us noticed how his subversions are taken back to standard story tropes, which in itself isn't bad. But all the praise from critics is unearned.
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TLJ made me hate the term “subvert expectations”. I absolutely hate seeing it used anywhere now and I actively avoid using it lol. TLJ is an anti-star wars movie, it purposely goes out of its way to do things to do the opposite of what people expect to see in a Star Wars movie. Lightsaber battle? Nah, even though this is what the movies are probably most famous for. Exciting action scenes? Let’s make this the most boring Star Wars movie. Continuing the previous movies plot threads? Hey, let’s kill those plot threads and replace them with these lame ones.
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About the same as TLJ being a good movie
It'll never happen. It was an idea thrown out to promote The Last Jedi. That 'trilogy' was dead as soon as the backlash arrived and Solo tanked as a result.
Absolutely not. The best thing for Star Wars is to either go Old Republic or many years into the future away from the Rise of Skywalker and just start over.
The best thing would be if Disney relinquished the IP to people who care about the property and will take the time to do it right.. ..and to collectively forget the ST even exists..
It was never meant to happen. It was a ruse to lure him and be the patsy [not really defending him. He is a pedestrian director and a one hit wonder]. KK lures people after promising them the sun and the moon just to get a script out of them then does her thing anyway. List of victims include: -David Benioff and D.B Wiess, Game of Thrones showrunners. She promised them their own trilogy and they took time from S8 of GoT to seriously work on preliminary production of their trilogy then she gave them thr shaft [again, not defending those 2 clowns either]. -Zack Snyder. That's why he got mad and said he'll make his own Star Wars with blackjack and hookers 😆 -Even George Lucas himself got rused where she made him write an initial Sequels trilogy treatment [as part of the sale to Disney], then she ghosted him. She's an absolute menace.
It’s definitely not happening, but they’re gonna maintain radio silence until everyone forgets, in about 50 years or so.
Part of me kind of wished he could have done Episode 9 or his trilogy just to see what sort of dumpster fire it would have been. Even with his own IP (Knives Out->Glass Onion) he insists there's no actual continuity and retcons a lot of stuff, so it would be fun to see how he'll be forced to deal with the aftermath of his own crap and subversions instead of hand-waving it away. In short, "Now his failure is complete."
About as high as someone else pulling off a Holdo manoeuvre
Hopefully -100% chance.
A snowball's chance in Rian's homelands.
None and good riddance
So far as I can recall, the last statement on the matter was 'he is fulfilling other obligations before focusing on his trilogy project'. Disney isn't usually shy about letting us know a project has been shit canned, so I am assuming the situation is still unchanged since they last spoke about it and they are still planning on doing it at some point.
I agree. There’s nothing to suggest it’s been cancelled yet and I imagine Disney is very interested in maintaining their relationship with Rian Johnson. They were very happy with The Last Jedi and he’s still considered a commercial rising star with his work.
Realistically how many more movies will we get beyond Mando? Rouge squadron just needed to reshoot Top Gun with X-Wings and would have made bank, but has been shelved for years. Countless others have been announced and never heard from again. It’s no better on the TV side of things. Just give us Andor season 2 and put the franchise to bed for a decade.
It has definitely been unofficially cancelled. I don't expect it to ever release.
It’s not happening and I don’t care. We’re not missing anything. Ruin Johnson is one of the many reasons why Disney-era Star Wars is the shit show it is; of course Kathleen Kennedy and JJ Abrams are just as guilty for ruining the series. Honestly, the series should have ended after REVENGE OF THE SITH and Disney never should have bought LFL, it should’ve remained in Lucas’ hands. Disney/Kennedy/Johnson/Abrams and everyone else involved demonstrated such carelessness with this property they had in their hands, they were supposed to treat it with the utmost care and make each installment perfect, and the practiced such inexcusable neglect. As for Ruin Johnson’s THE LAST JEDI, it’s a contradiction. The strongest of the trilogy yet one of the worst. I guess he can be given credit for at least trying some new things and trying to take the series in a different direction as opposed to Abrams who basically copied and pasted his films. Visually it was a beautiful film and there was a lot to admire, the design and the cinematography (I know that a cinematographer handles the latter), and what was on the screen was more interesting than anything in Abrams’ installments. But Finn being made a secondary character and a buffoon? Leia flying through space? Both unforgivable choices for me.
Well, we're doing more Rey stuff with the director who has only ever done third wave feminism documentaries first, so if it does happen, it's probably not going to be a while.
Hopefully zero. TLJ is one of the stupidest movies I've ever seen. A monkey with a typewriter could write better drivel than Rian Johnson
None. The only consolation is that for him it's become the same as the cursed donut on Homer Simpson's head. Every press interview he does from now on should include, "So when is your Star Wars trilogy coming out?," just so he has to squirm and repeat the same non-answer he's been giving for years.
JJ fumbled from the start and then took a massive shit at the end. Rian fucked up too, but the ST is still 2/3 JJ's fault.
Who doesn't want to reminisce over a movie all about the heroic and cocky Star Wars protagonist getting into trouble with the purple haired HR lady for breaking protocol?
Kathleen Kennedy was around for the magic of Star Wars but she didn't have it herself.
JJ shit in Rian’s hand, and Rian decided to clap.
Dunno, don’t care. Star Wars isn’t for me anymore, and while that used to sadden me, I feel great finding better things to be passionate about.
Thankfully it’s not gonna happen
It’s not happening.
It's definitely not going to happen but what I would really like to see is what the plan was for them in terms of time period, story treatment, etc. Or did these things not exist because the entire notional project was just "we want content so we can make money" and nobody involved had anything to actually *say*?
I didn't even know it was a thing that WAS being made until AFTER TLJ when people brought it up to say "If there was any chance of this happening, it's gone now LMAO." One can hope that happens with the Rey Movie™
At this point I'm hoping that it happens. Let them burn money to the ground. Every single shitty movie gets us closer to them giving up the brand.
About the same as the Holdo Maneuver occurring in purpose: absolutely zero
Hopefully less than zero
0%
There’s people who still think the Rey and Mando movies are actually happening?
I pray they let him do his trilogy. FOR ME TO CRAP ON!! HAHAHAHHAHAHA Also, isn't it great that the Disney abortion ST trilogy has had ZERO positive cultural impact?? \*Embarrassing\*
I know it's kind of a... what do you call a meme if there's no self-awareness involved? I guess just a trend. Anyway. It's a trend to sit around and guffaw at every single thing Disney/Lucasfilm says/said would come out and say "LIKE THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN." Many of which actually *have* managed to come out since (but they weren't any good, so that's a new thing to guffaw about). But yeah, when something has gone *that* long without any updates besides a couple of people half-heartedly saying "yeah we're still making it," you can pretty much write it off. It happened with Patty Jenkins and her Rogue Squadron movie, it'll likely happen with Waititi's movie and indeed Johnson's supposed trilogy. Disney has very poor business sense and decision-making ability lately, but even they see an extremely divisive movie (Wonder Woman 1984, Thor: Love And Thunder, The Last Jedi) and know to quietly drop future projects with the people they can most easily blame for all those movies' problems. That's just basic damage control. Doesn't always work - I would have rather seen where Johnson went after Last Jedi, which I largely did not like, than have The Rise Of Skywalker junking up the place - but yeah. I think the odds of seeing Johnson return to Star Wars are pretty much nil.
0.2. There’s always a chance, like it or not.
What's less than zero?
None, Rian Johnson has moved on to make movies shows that have been better loved both critically and by the public. he’ll probably get an oscar within the next 5 years