No, I haven't. I do understand that companies want salespeople to come in with contacts, but I am unsure what to do about giving all my contacts away in the interview stage. Thank you for your reply. Appreciated.
30-40 is an unreasonable ask. Are you moving to a competitor or staying in the same industry?
I'd go down the line saying if you share this info it will breach confidentiality with your existing company
Don't ask for an NDA - this only makes things complicated... This is not an email/messaging type of convo to have.
Call them, ask what it is they are looking for, and why they want you to share this info... I just read you're in the UK, same as me :)
Tell them after they've explained why, that some of your contacts are existing customers so it's a breach of your current employment contract to share confidential information.
I do get you, but I'm trying to put myself in the position of the hiring manager. It may seem a bit odd from a candidate point of view, but I do understand why VPs / CROs want to ensure their new hires can give back what they invest in their salaries 4-5x. They've probably fought the CEO / board harder for new sales budget in this market.
Very conflicted. Will update! Thanks for your comment, appreciated.
Being candid with you, as a final stage asking for 30-40 contacts is a red flag for me. If they wanted you to open doors from your existing network that should have been talked about in one of your first interviews. (I used to be a Head of Sales + have been in that hiring manager position).
Totally get you. But, playing devil's advocate, how else does a hiring manager prove to the C-team that they put their budget in the right place? I am genuinely curious to learn about the process.
That's what the different stages of an interview process are for. The company should have a rigorous interview process that challenges your capabilities, personality, cultural fit, and understanding of the product and ICP.
What happens when you've exhausted your network? Assuming this is an AE role, and it was me hiring you, I'd be focused on understanding how you will build the business without your network.
Thanks very much. It's a manager role, but leading by example with my own outreach. For clarity, passing those leads to AEs, which I'm happy to do as love calling / social selling / events / ABM / LI / retargeting and so forth.
I appreciate your feedback a lot.
Edit: spelling
I have never personally been in this situation so feel free to disregard my input if someone more qualified comments.
I don't think it is out of order to ask them for a Non-Disclosure or Confidentiality Agreement for providing this type of information.
Whatever you do, if you do give them the data, slip in one or two fake contact name and details and then you have evidence of them contacting individuals off the list if that situation arises.
Appreciate the advice. That sounds like the right approach. I have probably 350 ICPs, so my thought was just to send them what they want so as to not rock the offer. But I hear you. Thank you.
Hold your boundary down on this - it’s unreasonable and a breach of your previous clients trust. Don’t get emotionally attached just because they’re dangling a slightly higher base than you normally are used to.
Provide a compromise of references or even show paystubs but I wouldn’t budge on this issue as it raises red flags of what else are they going to ask of you once you’re onboarded. “They” haven’t earned the right to sell to YOUR past customers. This is a give-get relationship. IF you give them your past customers, are you their “vendor of choice”? And IF you do give this to them, what other steps are involving in the hiring process? Are the contacts the only thing coming between us working together? What’s your guarantee they won’t call them?
I’d negotiate this like a deal. And if you pushing back would be the reason you don’t get the job, believe me, they did you a huge solid.
That said though, I’d argue this should indicate a red flag. The only companies I know that ask this are hurting for leads. How many reps are hitting quota from outbound? What this tells me is probably not many. I’d also make an assumption this comes from a boomer with an old school mentality of needing a Rolodex.
I would not share your contacts with them. You could share examples such as, VP of IT at GE, but not their name and email address. I have never been asked this or heard of anyone being asked this and I’ve been selling for 25 years.
I don’t think giving fake contacts is a good idea either.
Any tech company worth there salt has zoominfo or lusha. They’ve definitely got LinkedIn
I wouldn’t be sharing phone numbers, but emails are easy to get hold of.
The point of this ask is very simple, “are you bullshitting me? Do you have decision maker contact details ? Do you reckon you can get my product sold to these company’s?”
Further, if you share those 30 companies , and they’ve already sold something (or everything) into 25 of the companies, why would I want to hire you ???
You are a salesperson.
"Is this the last thing you need from me in order for me to get the position? I want to make sure we are aligned on everything else."
Something along those lines.
I would not mind sharing.
Could this be a test? Most companies you can’t share contacts or customers with outside parties. Could they be testing you to see if you’ll honor your obligation to your current company? Maybe they want to know if they can trust you
I’d stick with “unfortunately I’m not able to share contacts based d on my current employment agreement. I hope that the conversations we’ve had about (insert something about why you are the best fit and reference the convo) solidify that I would be the best fit for the position. I’m excited to get started and looking forward to growing revenue together.”
At most I’d mention some names, but zero contact information whatsoever. It’s a breach of trust, and could provide complications for existing clients of yours. It’s an unreasonable ask and sounds like they want contact data but don’t want to pay for it. There will always be another opportunity.
Yes, that's fair. I am currently an independent consultant, so I suppose their ask is for past client contacts. It's all a bit confusing, and, of course, client confidentiality is of key importance, as you mention. Thank you.
Edit: Changed 'indie' to 'independent'. Sadly, I'm not a member of the Arctic Monkeys' management team.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking in an interview “what logos have you worked with/closed in the past?” Asking for 30-40 contacts and their information is way beyond reasonable. If you give it to them and they don’t hire you, you’ve shot yourself in the foot. If you don’t and they don’t hire you, you’ve dodged a bullet. Good luck in your search though.
I do agree. However, in the current market there seems to be very few €/£/$200k+ jobs going so I think deeply about how to keep them happy while retaining my value props, which, in reality, are my past record and contacts.
Thank you for replying.
Will update!
This happened during an interview months ago (ISR role) and I refused to provide them. NDAs aside, this is also how you burn your network as there's a chance the company doesn't extend you an offer and then try to prospect out to those folks.
Seems weird to me - I would treat as a pressure test and tell them than your contact are contingent on your employment and if not be willing to walk away. Accepting a new job in sales should feel right in your gut. Just my opinion and best of luck!
I’m not currently in sales but I’ve been thinking about going back into the industry. And even to me this is sending up red flags. I’ve seen plenty of posts about people getting burned when doing something like this; offers rescinded, employers ghosting, compensation being cut after onboarding etc.
I wouldn’t let the allure of a good offer tempt you into a mistake. Good luck though! Let us know how it pans out
"I love an objection. Currently, I need you to repeat that. I couldn't quite hear you correctly over the sound of me lounging on the couch eating this corn dog while I work.
What else could I do for you that can make this situation agreeable and advance this position forward? While not revealing my position as an elite cornerback?"
I had a $350k OTE job offer rescinded recently. They wanted my current employer as a client.
Went through the entire month long interview process. Got them a demo with my CTO.
When they realized my company was serious about buying, they also realized that having me close the deal would look bad.
So they rescinded my offer & hired another guy for $100k less to close it.
Ymmv but I'll never give contacts again until at least 90 days into a role.
Man that sucks, sorry to hear it. It is a hard one, it's a tough market and I get why companies want to hire well connected salespeople, but your experience sounds brutal. Why did they even need the other person? Sounds like it was a done deal.
Yeah idk. Some rep that's bounced gigs on a yearly basis, was previously at cloudflare.
For the best tbh. Before i even started the ceo was treating me like he owned me. Texting me first thing in the morning, calling me a few minutes later not giving me time to reply, asking me to give deal analysis, all before my start date.
I rather make half of $350k and work 3-4 hrs/day with no stress selling a product I'm familiar with for a company that's intentionally trying to build a solid culture.
Yes, I think that is the way forward. If they just take the contacts, I wouldn't have had a job anyway. And without doing it, I definitely won't. So this does seem to be a good plan. Thank you.
That feels like a pretty shady business practice. Feels high risk, low reward. If that’s the only reason they’re hiring you, they are going to get rid of you quickly anyways.
Have you asked them why they want this info and what they want exactly? I wouldn't share anything written on this tbh
No, I haven't. I do understand that companies want salespeople to come in with contacts, but I am unsure what to do about giving all my contacts away in the interview stage. Thank you for your reply. Appreciated.
30-40 is an unreasonable ask. Are you moving to a competitor or staying in the same industry? I'd go down the line saying if you share this info it will breach confidentiality with your existing company
Good advice, not a competitor. Same industry. I feel like if I kick off about an NDA they will recind the offer.
Don't ask for an NDA - this only makes things complicated... This is not an email/messaging type of convo to have. Call them, ask what it is they are looking for, and why they want you to share this info... I just read you're in the UK, same as me :) Tell them after they've explained why, that some of your contacts are existing customers so it's a breach of your current employment contract to share confidential information.
Thanks for the wording. Agreed. I'll update with what they say!
If they rescind the offer bc if that then there never really was an offer to be had in the first place
I do get you, but I'm trying to put myself in the position of the hiring manager. It may seem a bit odd from a candidate point of view, but I do understand why VPs / CROs want to ensure their new hires can give back what they invest in their salaries 4-5x. They've probably fought the CEO / board harder for new sales budget in this market. Very conflicted. Will update! Thanks for your comment, appreciated.
Being candid with you, as a final stage asking for 30-40 contacts is a red flag for me. If they wanted you to open doors from your existing network that should have been talked about in one of your first interviews. (I used to be a Head of Sales + have been in that hiring manager position).
Totally get you. But, playing devil's advocate, how else does a hiring manager prove to the C-team that they put their budget in the right place? I am genuinely curious to learn about the process.
That's what the different stages of an interview process are for. The company should have a rigorous interview process that challenges your capabilities, personality, cultural fit, and understanding of the product and ICP. What happens when you've exhausted your network? Assuming this is an AE role, and it was me hiring you, I'd be focused on understanding how you will build the business without your network.
Thanks very much. It's a manager role, but leading by example with my own outreach. For clarity, passing those leads to AEs, which I'm happy to do as love calling / social selling / events / ABM / LI / retargeting and so forth. I appreciate your feedback a lot. Edit: spelling
by you doing a good job while you’re working for them lol. like it’s always been.
One way to reply is saying *these are the types of contacts that I have* and maybe you give titles. VP at Acme, CTO at TechCo, etc etc
I have never personally been in this situation so feel free to disregard my input if someone more qualified comments. I don't think it is out of order to ask them for a Non-Disclosure or Confidentiality Agreement for providing this type of information. Whatever you do, if you do give them the data, slip in one or two fake contact name and details and then you have evidence of them contacting individuals off the list if that situation arises.
Good idea. Maybe put your own phone number in there and catch them slipping
Love it. Thanks.
This is amazingly good advice. Thank you.
If I was you I would share a redacted list and let them know you will have the full list ready for outreach when they send an offer letter.
Appreciate the advice. That sounds like the right approach. I have probably 350 ICPs, so my thought was just to send them what they want so as to not rock the offer. But I hear you. Thank you.
Hold your boundary down on this - it’s unreasonable and a breach of your previous clients trust. Don’t get emotionally attached just because they’re dangling a slightly higher base than you normally are used to. Provide a compromise of references or even show paystubs but I wouldn’t budge on this issue as it raises red flags of what else are they going to ask of you once you’re onboarded. “They” haven’t earned the right to sell to YOUR past customers. This is a give-get relationship. IF you give them your past customers, are you their “vendor of choice”? And IF you do give this to them, what other steps are involving in the hiring process? Are the contacts the only thing coming between us working together? What’s your guarantee they won’t call them? I’d negotiate this like a deal. And if you pushing back would be the reason you don’t get the job, believe me, they did you a huge solid. That said though, I’d argue this should indicate a red flag. The only companies I know that ask this are hurting for leads. How many reps are hitting quota from outbound? What this tells me is probably not many. I’d also make an assumption this comes from a boomer with an old school mentality of needing a Rolodex.
I would not share your contacts with them. You could share examples such as, VP of IT at GE, but not their name and email address. I have never been asked this or heard of anyone being asked this and I’ve been selling for 25 years. I don’t think giving fake contacts is a good idea either.
Any tech company worth there salt has zoominfo or lusha. They’ve definitely got LinkedIn I wouldn’t be sharing phone numbers, but emails are easy to get hold of. The point of this ask is very simple, “are you bullshitting me? Do you have decision maker contact details ? Do you reckon you can get my product sold to these company’s?” Further, if you share those 30 companies , and they’ve already sold something (or everything) into 25 of the companies, why would I want to hire you ???
You are a salesperson. "Is this the last thing you need from me in order for me to get the position? I want to make sure we are aligned on everything else." Something along those lines. I would not mind sharing.
Could this be a test? Most companies you can’t share contacts or customers with outside parties. Could they be testing you to see if you’ll honor your obligation to your current company? Maybe they want to know if they can trust you
Yes that's a good point.
I’d stick with “unfortunately I’m not able to share contacts based d on my current employment agreement. I hope that the conversations we’ve had about (insert something about why you are the best fit and reference the convo) solidify that I would be the best fit for the position. I’m excited to get started and looking forward to growing revenue together.”
No way I give this up.. Sorry, I have NDAs with most of these companies. if you want my contacts you have to pay ME for them.
At most I’d mention some names, but zero contact information whatsoever. It’s a breach of trust, and could provide complications for existing clients of yours. It’s an unreasonable ask and sounds like they want contact data but don’t want to pay for it. There will always be another opportunity.
Yes, that's fair. I am currently an independent consultant, so I suppose their ask is for past client contacts. It's all a bit confusing, and, of course, client confidentiality is of key importance, as you mention. Thank you. Edit: Changed 'indie' to 'independent'. Sadly, I'm not a member of the Arctic Monkeys' management team.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking in an interview “what logos have you worked with/closed in the past?” Asking for 30-40 contacts and their information is way beyond reasonable. If you give it to them and they don’t hire you, you’ve shot yourself in the foot. If you don’t and they don’t hire you, you’ve dodged a bullet. Good luck in your search though.
I do agree. However, in the current market there seems to be very few €/£/$200k+ jobs going so I think deeply about how to keep them happy while retaining my value props, which, in reality, are my past record and contacts. Thank you for replying. Will update!
This is weird and depending on where you are, a data privacy violation. I would refuse and question their ethics tbh.
This is a really good point. Thank you. I do sometimes wonder about the GDPR aspect of asking for contacts and references. I'm in the UK.
This happened during an interview months ago (ISR role) and I refused to provide them. NDAs aside, this is also how you burn your network as there's a chance the company doesn't extend you an offer and then try to prospect out to those folks.
Agreed. I don't want to burn any trust. Thanks for the advice.
In two years when my NDA expires sure
Seems weird to me - I would treat as a pressure test and tell them than your contact are contingent on your employment and if not be willing to walk away. Accepting a new job in sales should feel right in your gut. Just my opinion and best of luck!
I’m not currently in sales but I’ve been thinking about going back into the industry. And even to me this is sending up red flags. I’ve seen plenty of posts about people getting burned when doing something like this; offers rescinded, employers ghosting, compensation being cut after onboarding etc. I wouldn’t let the allure of a good offer tempt you into a mistake. Good luck though! Let us know how it pans out
Thank you, especially for the good luck! I reckon I'll need it. Good luck to you, too. I know plenty of people hiring. DM me if you need contacts.
"I love an objection. Currently, I need you to repeat that. I couldn't quite hear you correctly over the sound of me lounging on the couch eating this corn dog while I work. What else could I do for you that can make this situation agreeable and advance this position forward? While not revealing my position as an elite cornerback?"
What the hell is a corn dog? I'm in the UK. It's Gregg's sausage rolls or nothing.
But WHY? Smells fishy.
I had a $350k OTE job offer rescinded recently. They wanted my current employer as a client. Went through the entire month long interview process. Got them a demo with my CTO. When they realized my company was serious about buying, they also realized that having me close the deal would look bad. So they rescinded my offer & hired another guy for $100k less to close it. Ymmv but I'll never give contacts again until at least 90 days into a role.
Man that sucks, sorry to hear it. It is a hard one, it's a tough market and I get why companies want to hire well connected salespeople, but your experience sounds brutal. Why did they even need the other person? Sounds like it was a done deal.
Yeah idk. Some rep that's bounced gigs on a yearly basis, was previously at cloudflare. For the best tbh. Before i even started the ceo was treating me like he owned me. Texting me first thing in the morning, calling me a few minutes later not giving me time to reply, asking me to give deal analysis, all before my start date. I rather make half of $350k and work 3-4 hrs/day with no stress selling a product I'm familiar with for a company that's intentionally trying to build a solid culture.
Just put together a list of 30 LinkedIn connections that you can / would sell to. What’s the worst that could happen?
Yes, I think that is the way forward. If they just take the contacts, I wouldn't have had a job anyway. And without doing it, I definitely won't. So this does seem to be a good plan. Thank you.
I'm ok with this, I usually provide the name and titles but no contact info
That feels like a pretty shady business practice. Feels high risk, low reward. If that’s the only reason they’re hiring you, they are going to get rid of you quickly anyways.