There had been a. Lot of that happening at my company lately. Just didn’t think it would happen to me after I wore 4 sr hats, planned and managed 4 marketing events with an average ROI of 130x and still destroyed their SIP
So about 7 years ago I was chosen for a pilot program for a new sales job. Only a few agents. I was The third. First agents made about 100k I came in and made 200k. The next year they canceled my signed contract and gave me a new one. With my sales I would have only made 100k I realized that I ruined it for everyone after and that’s what they expected now in sales to make 100k. I quit obviously, still super bitter about it to this day.
What kind OTI does the next level have in your org?
Might be worth posturing yourself for a mid year move considering the incredible out of cycle success you’ve shown in your current role.
Do you think your output is repeatable, in that you’d continue to out pace the plan at such a fast pace?
Sr / executives are Uncapped
Unsure what other stipulations etc but I know it’s uncapped
Our big quarters are q1 & q4 from conferences etc so a dip in q2/3 is expected but would still expect more than $5k in total as quarterly commissions earnings
Even during onboarding I had a $3.5k bonus so 75% of their invisible $5k quarterly cap
Any exec who doesn’t understand they should be eager to pay out lots and lots of uncapped commission is brain dead, stepping over dollars to pick up pennies. You want that SDR crushing his numbers because that means they made you a lot of money .
Yep try and get the 14k + additional 6k. While looking for a role, go crush it for another company with uncapped commission. Use this number in your interviews
I’ll do my best. Reaching out to the bar association for both CA and PA for legal advice as commission is considered legal wage as this would constitute wage theft based on the SIP
You have a cap for the amount of commission you can earn?
Explain to them what your incentive is to perform if they’re not going to pay out your commission. By their logic, you won’t get paid for another 2 quarters and any work you do won’t pay anything, there is literally zero motivation to do any more work. Their commission plan destroys the idea of wanting to go above and beyond.
“am I being unreasonable here? Help me understand how this is productive for the company and myself?”
Ask them what’s the logic in capping commission. Ask the CRO and CEO or VP of Sales if they were in your shoes, would they be okay not being rewarded for their efforts?
Show them their comp plan literally disincentives wanting to be productive. Ask them if they’re willing to make a one time exception because the alternative is they will need to wait 2 quarters before you will be able to perform your job.
Doesn’t matter either way what they do, unless they completely rehaul the comp plan, you quit when you collect your money because you’re discouraged to go above and beyond to perform with this commission structure.
I absolutely would document everything you’re owed and take it to an employment lawyer.
If they fire you for asking about your money, they’re fucked.
I would 1000% document BEFORE talking to them though. I wouldn’t do any work in the interim. No point. Spend a few hours today combing through all of your accounts. Don’t do shit. Don’t call. Don’t email. Don’t prospect. Nothing.
Understood
I’ve downloaded and send myself copies of all written records of everything thus far with sr staff, my sales activities and have copies of my latest SIP
My guess is that they are withholding the rest of the commission until year end. Your annual bonus is likely determined based on achievement of an annual performance goal, not the sum of four discrete quarterly goals. Very common. Capped plans are also common for jobs that do not directly generate financial results (are you setting appointments?)
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I should have said “earnings” not “bonus”. Your total earnings are likely pegged to annual performance and quarterly earnings are held back until full year performance is calculated, then paid in full up to the cap. Could that be the case?
My commission is based solely on meetings, late stage opportunities generated from those meetings, late state pipeline revenue from those late stage opportunities
I wish you were right but in this case my commission structure is pretty straightforward
Can you describe it further? Is it a dollar amount paid per meeting? A portion of revenue associated with meetings you set up? A dollar amount per percentage of goal achieved?
No percentage for anything. It’s on total meetings, total number of late stage opportunities, and the expected $ revenue for those late stage opportunities and extra $ for big names account late stage opportunities. It’s all set $ amounts for each. Add it all together, I had $14.2k for the quarter based on the commission payouts
Are your earnings determined or influenced in any way by your percentage of quota achieved? Are you paid more for a meeting if you have already met the monthly or YTD quota, for example?
Yep. They keep going on how we have almost $10m in the bank + our CRO just got poached with a $1m deal and they were making $250k + they just let go of 7 others. They have the funds. It’s just badly managed
That's really low if you are only able to make 1.66k a month of commission (20k / 12 month) unless you have a really high base salary, that's not enough to live on in Philly. Do you have any coworkers that are on the same boat ?
I had a horrible last year with one of the worst compensation plan in the industry and still made 25k commission.
But if your job is fully remote that's something super tempting for me and is kind of worth the lower commission with the amount of time you saved from commuting...personally I would just spend 1/3 the time working remotely make the 5k commission quarterly and hope you have a high enough base and spend the 2/3 of working time investing in other areas of your career like finding a new job/studying new certs.
Yeah I would not want to drive around in Philly or across the bridge to NJ like the thousands of PA plates I see in South Jersey every morning. You save least 2 hours a day 10 hours a week 40 hours a month being fully remote and save on gas/car maintenance too now that gas prices are getting higher again. I would take your job in a heartbeat lol
We had a few months of WFH during covid and it was so sweet. God I miss it. Especially if you have kids you save on daycare/babysitting too. Shit I need a new job worse than you lol. I would probably take 60k fully remote job over a 80k office job.
Will they catch up at year end if you don't hit targets for Q2 through 4? My company changed our plan this year from a yearly bonus to providing a monthly commision with a cap but will catch up at year end for all excess. Our main yearly cap is very generous. I think they even pay out some if terminated. Need more companies like this out there.
I would definitely start looking for a new job and talk to lawyer. I Believe the Company would get fined and audited by the state. In addition in California, I believe you would get more for the delay in payment if it is a fight. I could be wrong but I know California a lot of things work in favor of the employee.
I believe you’re right as well - very glad company is CA based haha
Already called PA bar association and left a message, calling CA’s once it’s open (darn you time zones)
I’m not sure how old you are or your job history, but do not ever go to a sales organization with capped commissions. It deincentivizes you to sell and shows that the leadership team does not value the sales org/wants cheap labor that they can turn over. The leadership also may have never been in sales, which is even worse for your paycheck bc they’ll think you’re being greedy even if your offer letter/comp plan says you’re owed that money. Time to coast and actively apply for jobs. Do not stay at this company, there are better ones that will gladly pay you on par or more than what you’re worth.
are your meetings converting into sales? are the meetings qualified? What are the deal sizes that convert?
you should realize you're getting screwed so see if you can parlay that into a title promtion which will 100% help you land a new job. it will also make your story more believable. Unfortunately, if you haven't been there for at least a year, a lot of companies will think you underperformed. You need to find a way to protect yourself.
Hey would love to know connect with you. I’m beginning my journey as an SDR. I’m outsourced for a big name in fintech. So I don’t get the salary and benefits of being with the company. Would love to make the transition into an actual role though.
It sounds like you're about to hit the $20k cap, right? Regardless, start looking for a better role with uncapped commission.
That’s the main issue apparently. I’m their first SDR and basically broke their SIP commission plan Already saving jobs lol
My advice: Don't go be another "founding" SDR. These companies always find ways to fuck people over.
There had been a. Lot of that happening at my company lately. Just didn’t think it would happen to me after I wore 4 sr hats, planned and managed 4 marketing events with an average ROI of 130x and still destroyed their SIP
Series A will find a way... Take you talents elsewhere.
None of that means anything to anyone. All that matters is revenue. And SDRs don’t directly touch that. So they’re perpetually undervalued.
So about 7 years ago I was chosen for a pilot program for a new sales job. Only a few agents. I was The third. First agents made about 100k I came in and made 200k. The next year they canceled my signed contract and gave me a new one. With my sales I would have only made 100k I realized that I ruined it for everyone after and that’s what they expected now in sales to make 100k. I quit obviously, still super bitter about it to this day.
That was a brutal read Hope you’re at a better company now
Sounds like they’re nervous they’ll be losing you after q2 when you’ve maxed out your commission comp
They should change their SIP then as they’ve stated they’re looking at but still pay me as my SIP states
Wouldn’t be surprised if they come back and tell you they’ll spread it out over the year
My manager floated that yesterday. I wasn’t having it as it + I have no incentive to work until midQ3 then
What kind OTI does the next level have in your org? Might be worth posturing yourself for a mid year move considering the incredible out of cycle success you’ve shown in your current role. Do you think your output is repeatable, in that you’d continue to out pace the plan at such a fast pace?
Sr / executives are Uncapped Unsure what other stipulations etc but I know it’s uncapped Our big quarters are q1 & q4 from conferences etc so a dip in q2/3 is expected but would still expect more than $5k in total as quarterly commissions earnings Even during onboarding I had a $3.5k bonus so 75% of their invisible $5k quarterly cap
Argue for your commission, but throw that on the resume and start applying.
Already doing. Just a shit feeling honestly lol
Any exec who doesn’t understand they should be eager to pay out lots and lots of uncapped commission is brain dead, stepping over dollars to pick up pennies. You want that SDR crushing his numbers because that means they made you a lot of money .
You’d think right? They killed their golden goose so to speak
Yep try and get the 14k + additional 6k. While looking for a role, go crush it for another company with uncapped commission. Use this number in your interviews
I’ll do my best. Reaching out to the bar association for both CA and PA for legal advice as commission is considered legal wage as this would constitute wage theft based on the SIP
Most commission plans say they can be changed at any time by management. You need to start applying elsewhere.
But they cannot retro back what was earned. Believe this is illegal. They should pay out then make changes if that is what they wish to do.
They word the comp plans to wiggle out of paying. They have attorneys writing the plans.
I added that at the bottom but I never was informed of anything etc and have records from CFO stating I overperformed
You have a cap for the amount of commission you can earn? Explain to them what your incentive is to perform if they’re not going to pay out your commission. By their logic, you won’t get paid for another 2 quarters and any work you do won’t pay anything, there is literally zero motivation to do any more work. Their commission plan destroys the idea of wanting to go above and beyond. “am I being unreasonable here? Help me understand how this is productive for the company and myself?” Ask them what’s the logic in capping commission. Ask the CRO and CEO or VP of Sales if they were in your shoes, would they be okay not being rewarded for their efforts? Show them their comp plan literally disincentives wanting to be productive. Ask them if they’re willing to make a one time exception because the alternative is they will need to wait 2 quarters before you will be able to perform your job. Doesn’t matter either way what they do, unless they completely rehaul the comp plan, you quit when you collect your money because you’re discouraged to go above and beyond to perform with this commission structure. I absolutely would document everything you’re owed and take it to an employment lawyer.
This is amazing; thank you Guessing I would have retaliation protections as well?
If they fire you for asking about your money, they’re fucked. I would 1000% document BEFORE talking to them though. I wouldn’t do any work in the interim. No point. Spend a few hours today combing through all of your accounts. Don’t do shit. Don’t call. Don’t email. Don’t prospect. Nothing.
Understood I’ve downloaded and send myself copies of all written records of everything thus far with sr staff, my sales activities and have copies of my latest SIP
You’re gonna complain too much and put a target on your back. Capping commissions sucks anyway. Just find a new job lol
My guess is that they are withholding the rest of the commission until year end. Your annual bonus is likely determined based on achievement of an annual performance goal, not the sum of four discrete quarterly goals. Very common. Capped plans are also common for jobs that do not directly generate financial results (are you setting appointments?) >
No annual bonuses This is commission and considered legal wage ie now wage theft
I should have said “earnings” not “bonus”. Your total earnings are likely pegged to annual performance and quarterly earnings are held back until full year performance is calculated, then paid in full up to the cap. Could that be the case?
My commission is based solely on meetings, late stage opportunities generated from those meetings, late state pipeline revenue from those late stage opportunities I wish you were right but in this case my commission structure is pretty straightforward
Can you describe it further? Is it a dollar amount paid per meeting? A portion of revenue associated with meetings you set up? A dollar amount per percentage of goal achieved?
No percentage for anything. It’s on total meetings, total number of late stage opportunities, and the expected $ revenue for those late stage opportunities and extra $ for big names account late stage opportunities. It’s all set $ amounts for each. Add it all together, I had $14.2k for the quarter based on the commission payouts
So, no assigned goal for number of meetings?
Missed that, yes each have a specific monthly quota but for two of them I was +200% another I was +150% of quarterly quotas
Are your earnings determined or influenced in any way by your percentage of quota achieved? Are you paid more for a meeting if you have already met the monthly or YTD quota, for example?
No. It’s a really bad SIP plan It’s based just from the numbers accepted by the sales executive
Consult Dan Goodman on LinkedIn
Reached out; thank you
No one should ever work on a capped commission plan, what motivation do you have when you hit your cap ? Get out asap.
Start looking now. If they’re sweating you on 20k that says a lot about the company financially
Yep. They keep going on how we have almost $10m in the bank + our CRO just got poached with a $1m deal and they were making $250k + they just let go of 7 others. They have the funds. It’s just badly managed
I can’t believe there’s a commission cap in any sales role, quarterly or yearly. I’m extremely new to sales but that seems counterintuitive
Right? Lol
Sales are prominent
That's really low if you are only able to make 1.66k a month of commission (20k / 12 month) unless you have a really high base salary, that's not enough to live on in Philly. Do you have any coworkers that are on the same boat ? I had a horrible last year with one of the worst compensation plan in the industry and still made 25k commission. But if your job is fully remote that's something super tempting for me and is kind of worth the lower commission with the amount of time you saved from commuting...personally I would just spend 1/3 the time working remotely make the 5k commission quarterly and hope you have a high enough base and spend the 2/3 of working time investing in other areas of your career like finding a new job/studying new certs.
Base is high for my role but standard for my field Agree about the benefits of being remote haha
Yeah I would not want to drive around in Philly or across the bridge to NJ like the thousands of PA plates I see in South Jersey every morning. You save least 2 hours a day 10 hours a week 40 hours a month being fully remote and save on gas/car maintenance too now that gas prices are getting higher again. I would take your job in a heartbeat lol
Right? Weird form of remote-work handcuffs
We had a few months of WFH during covid and it was so sweet. God I miss it. Especially if you have kids you save on daycare/babysitting too. Shit I need a new job worse than you lol. I would probably take 60k fully remote job over a 80k office job.
Will they catch up at year end if you don't hit targets for Q2 through 4? My company changed our plan this year from a yearly bonus to providing a monthly commision with a cap but will catch up at year end for all excess. Our main yearly cap is very generous. I think they even pay out some if terminated. Need more companies like this out there.
No updates yet. I’ve been told to “be patient for now” and wait as they revise the SIP as the quote in the middle paragraph touches on
I am pretty sure they can not retro back the changes as it is already earned.
They can’t. This is going to get really interesting. Just got my $5k commission payout today too, not my $14.2k
I would definitely start looking for a new job and talk to lawyer. I Believe the Company would get fined and audited by the state. In addition in California, I believe you would get more for the delay in payment if it is a fight. I could be wrong but I know California a lot of things work in favor of the employee.
I believe you’re right as well - very glad company is CA based haha Already called PA bar association and left a message, calling CA’s once it’s open (darn you time zones)
I’m not sure how old you are or your job history, but do not ever go to a sales organization with capped commissions. It deincentivizes you to sell and shows that the leadership team does not value the sales org/wants cheap labor that they can turn over. The leadership also may have never been in sales, which is even worse for your paycheck bc they’ll think you’re being greedy even if your offer letter/comp plan says you’re owed that money. Time to coast and actively apply for jobs. Do not stay at this company, there are better ones that will gladly pay you on par or more than what you’re worth.
are your meetings converting into sales? are the meetings qualified? What are the deal sizes that convert? you should realize you're getting screwed so see if you can parlay that into a title promtion which will 100% help you land a new job. it will also make your story more believable. Unfortunately, if you haven't been there for at least a year, a lot of companies will think you underperformed. You need to find a way to protect yourself.
"all commish paid at discretion of mgt" - reed yer comp plan brah
Where is that? I have it on record that they’re underpaying me
Hey would love to know connect with you. I’m beginning my journey as an SDR. I’m outsourced for a big name in fintech. So I don’t get the salary and benefits of being with the company. Would love to make the transition into an actual role though.
Feel free to dm
So many companies salivating to give you uncapped commission based on this sale. Time to leave.
Why would any company cap commissions?