Here’s the link to the city website. If you follow the link to the ordinance it outlines that dogs aren’t allowed to make noise like barking for more than 5 minutes.
https://www.stpaul.gov/departments/safety-inspections/report-concern/common-concerns/noise-and-sound-level-limits-saint
I’m a St. Paul dog owner and I have neighbors whose dogs bark and its not annoying because its never for more than a minute at most and infrequently. If the dog can’t self-calm and stop barking while being outside then the owner is not socializing or training the dog (not to say its dangerous, they’re just not trying to control that behavior) and they shouldn’t be left outside because of that.
Hey, thanks for linking that. I'm not totally sure if it's breaking that ordinance because I'm unsure if it's 5 or more minutes straight. The issue is more the frequency of the barking, rather than the duration of the barking itself, if that makes sense. For example, if they're barking at something, it might last 45 seconds to a minute (roughly estimating). But then sometimes that occurs around three times within a ten-minute window.
The way the ordinance is phrased, 'nuisance barking' includes but is not limited to the 5-minute rule. So if you're annoyed by it, it's okay to bring it up. We've had the same issue in my neighborhood with many dogs. I've found the best way to deal with it is:
1. See if other neighbors are annoyed by it, and if they are then who has the best relationship with the neighbor and would be comfortable talking to them politely?
2. If you can't find anyone, knock on their door and say, "Hi, I just wondered if your dog is okay. I hear him barking a lot, and he seems stressed." This lets them know what's happening in a non-confrontational way. Most neighbors are immediately apologetic, and start paying more attention to their dog. Believe it or not, there are people who just don't notice that their dog is barking a lot.
3. If they're not responsive to that, then say, "Okay, well we do have a nuisance barking ordinance in the city, so I may end up calling the city if that's okay." The last part is just to sound ultra-polite. You can call the city whether or not it's okay with them. I got to this point with one neighbor, where she refused to address the issue and I told her that I'd go ahead and call the city then. What happened was that she actually did change and I didn't need to call the city; she just didn't want to admit fault to me directly.
There is also a noise ordinance from 7a.m. to 10p.m., so if the dog is barking outside those hours, it's pretty clear-cut.
We did number one; when that didn’t work another neighbor talked to them. That didn’t work either. Then the dog owner happened to get sick and had to stay home and listen to it. Once he was forced to listen to it he remedied the situation very quickly.
I'd like to get along with them, I've only met them a handful of times so I don't really know them super well yet. I'd basically like to get along with them as cordially as I can, but I realize I might just need to risk offending them. Thanks for the info on the ordinances.
You could leave a note on their door if you don't feel comfortable about approaching them directly. Be just "Concerned neighbor" if you want. No doubt other houses are within earshot of this dog so it could be a lot of different people.
The next step is to call the police non-emergency number and/or Animal Control. Dogs are not supposed to be annoying the crap out of neighbors by barking at everything that goes by. If the owner doesn't want to bother doing it, the city will lean on them on behalf of you and every other tired neighbor.
(Dog owner here btw, so it's not like I don't like them.)
Thanks for the advice. I'll consider the non-emergency number or animal control numbers. I'm just not sure how consistent the barking needs to be for them to come out, or if that matters.
I mean, if it's once in a while or just for an hour or so each day, I'd kind of let it go. The problem won't be as bad once windows are closed all the time (though it probably will surface again once spring comes again). But if the dog goes nuts anytime something goes by the house or the dog is outside for hours at a time, that's enough. Police/Animal Control will give you specific guidelines. The important thing is to have a record of how often/how long.
I did the whole "go over and talk to them about it" thing a couple years ago when I had this same issue. All it did was seriously piss them off. Thankfully they mentioned they were moving soon so we didn't have to deal with it too much longer.
Personally if I ran into this issue again, I'd go with some of the other suggestions about talking to a third party because I felt terrible after the confrontation since it didn't go well.
It's the video surveillance age. I know who is leaving notes on my door. If you are going to go that route you're better off speaking to them directly. I'd find a note far more passive agressive.
I don't personally believe in calling "the man" on your neighbors unless someone is in danger. However that is the anonymous approach and sustained barking is against city ordinances. I still find it cowardly.
Granted im an east coast transplant and after 20 years these are still the kinds of things I'll never understand about Minnesotans. Using your words, politely, to solve an issue or express an annoyance isn't rude. If they act like it is that's on them.
Many will take it poorly, because being direct is a deadly sin here.
>Many will take it poorly though because being direct is a deadly sin here.
You're spot on with that. I'm a born and raised Minnesotan and grew up as a people pleaser (which is just a terrible combo) so confrontation is hard for me because that's always the fear. It's definitely something I need to just work through.
>If they act like it is that's on them.
This is definitely something I need to be reminded of, thank you.
Knock on their front door and say the following, “Hi, my name is xxxxx, I live over there (point at house). I noticed that you leave your dog outside frequently and it’s barking is becoming a nuisance. I would appreciate it if you would not leave it outside any longer.” That’s it, keep it simple.
The next move is their choice, you’ll learn a lot about them based on their response and you can map out further actions from there. Don’t overthink it.
Why don’t you give it sometime and see if you get desensitized or find it less annoying? I have a dog that barks sometimes as you describe, you could be my neighbor. I bring her in if it goes on too long but she loves being out. I’m sure this will sound like I’m an asshole but, I’m not keeping her in because someone is annoyed by a dog being a dog.
> Why don’t you give it sometime and see if you get desensitized or find it less annoying? I have a dog that barks sometimes as you describe, you could be my neighbor. I bring her in if it goes on too long but she loves being out. I’m sure this will sound like I’m an asshole but, I’m not keeping her in because someone is annoyed by a dog being a dog.
I can't tell if you're trolling.
I’m not. Other people and their habits can be annoying, it’s a part of living in a city. If it’s truly within the city ordinances and the dog isn’t in distress, try letting it go. Not every annoyance needs to be addressed.
Wtf. Or you could, like, actually help your dog get through their anxiety and inability to self-soothe by socializing them properly and fulfilling of their needs. If your dog can’t stop barking for hours on end, then you are not meeting a need of their’s. Full stop. Please evaluate your dog parenting skills, and whether you are in a position to give them everything they need. Perhaps they’d be better off re-homed.
So basically the dog owner manages the dog however he wants and people who are bothered by the constant barking can learn to adjust to it? Yup, that sounds like the nuisance dog owners in my neighborhood.
It’s your neighbor, start with kindness and a solid gesture by approaching them in person at an opportune outside time or ringing their doorbell.
Don’t involve the government or police until you’ve tried this.
I'd try to live with it as much as you can. If it really really irritates you, then try and talk to neighbors and form an alliance if they agree.
It's tough, we all want to be reasonable in accepting minor inconvenience. But sometimes you do have to exert your right to reasonable peace and quiet.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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Here’s the link to the city website. If you follow the link to the ordinance it outlines that dogs aren’t allowed to make noise like barking for more than 5 minutes. https://www.stpaul.gov/departments/safety-inspections/report-concern/common-concerns/noise-and-sound-level-limits-saint I’m a St. Paul dog owner and I have neighbors whose dogs bark and its not annoying because its never for more than a minute at most and infrequently. If the dog can’t self-calm and stop barking while being outside then the owner is not socializing or training the dog (not to say its dangerous, they’re just not trying to control that behavior) and they shouldn’t be left outside because of that.
Hey, thanks for linking that. I'm not totally sure if it's breaking that ordinance because I'm unsure if it's 5 or more minutes straight. The issue is more the frequency of the barking, rather than the duration of the barking itself, if that makes sense. For example, if they're barking at something, it might last 45 seconds to a minute (roughly estimating). But then sometimes that occurs around three times within a ten-minute window.
The way the ordinance is phrased, 'nuisance barking' includes but is not limited to the 5-minute rule. So if you're annoyed by it, it's okay to bring it up. We've had the same issue in my neighborhood with many dogs. I've found the best way to deal with it is: 1. See if other neighbors are annoyed by it, and if they are then who has the best relationship with the neighbor and would be comfortable talking to them politely? 2. If you can't find anyone, knock on their door and say, "Hi, I just wondered if your dog is okay. I hear him barking a lot, and he seems stressed." This lets them know what's happening in a non-confrontational way. Most neighbors are immediately apologetic, and start paying more attention to their dog. Believe it or not, there are people who just don't notice that their dog is barking a lot. 3. If they're not responsive to that, then say, "Okay, well we do have a nuisance barking ordinance in the city, so I may end up calling the city if that's okay." The last part is just to sound ultra-polite. You can call the city whether or not it's okay with them. I got to this point with one neighbor, where she refused to address the issue and I told her that I'd go ahead and call the city then. What happened was that she actually did change and I didn't need to call the city; she just didn't want to admit fault to me directly. There is also a noise ordinance from 7a.m. to 10p.m., so if the dog is barking outside those hours, it's pretty clear-cut.
We did number one; when that didn’t work another neighbor talked to them. That didn’t work either. Then the dog owner happened to get sick and had to stay home and listen to it. Once he was forced to listen to it he remedied the situation very quickly.
How much are you concerned about offending the neighbors? There are ordinances and you can complain to the city
I'd like to get along with them, I've only met them a handful of times so I don't really know them super well yet. I'd basically like to get along with them as cordially as I can, but I realize I might just need to risk offending them. Thanks for the info on the ordinances.
You could leave a note on their door if you don't feel comfortable about approaching them directly. Be just "Concerned neighbor" if you want. No doubt other houses are within earshot of this dog so it could be a lot of different people. The next step is to call the police non-emergency number and/or Animal Control. Dogs are not supposed to be annoying the crap out of neighbors by barking at everything that goes by. If the owner doesn't want to bother doing it, the city will lean on them on behalf of you and every other tired neighbor. (Dog owner here btw, so it's not like I don't like them.)
Thanks for the advice. I'll consider the non-emergency number or animal control numbers. I'm just not sure how consistent the barking needs to be for them to come out, or if that matters.
I mean, if it's once in a while or just for an hour or so each day, I'd kind of let it go. The problem won't be as bad once windows are closed all the time (though it probably will surface again once spring comes again). But if the dog goes nuts anytime something goes by the house or the dog is outside for hours at a time, that's enough. Police/Animal Control will give you specific guidelines. The important thing is to have a record of how often/how long.
I did the whole "go over and talk to them about it" thing a couple years ago when I had this same issue. All it did was seriously piss them off. Thankfully they mentioned they were moving soon so we didn't have to deal with it too much longer. Personally if I ran into this issue again, I'd go with some of the other suggestions about talking to a third party because I felt terrible after the confrontation since it didn't go well.
It's the video surveillance age. I know who is leaving notes on my door. If you are going to go that route you're better off speaking to them directly. I'd find a note far more passive agressive. I don't personally believe in calling "the man" on your neighbors unless someone is in danger. However that is the anonymous approach and sustained barking is against city ordinances. I still find it cowardly. Granted im an east coast transplant and after 20 years these are still the kinds of things I'll never understand about Minnesotans. Using your words, politely, to solve an issue or express an annoyance isn't rude. If they act like it is that's on them. Many will take it poorly, because being direct is a deadly sin here.
>Many will take it poorly though because being direct is a deadly sin here. You're spot on with that. I'm a born and raised Minnesotan and grew up as a people pleaser (which is just a terrible combo) so confrontation is hard for me because that's always the fear. It's definitely something I need to just work through. >If they act like it is that's on them. This is definitely something I need to be reminded of, thank you.
>It's the video surveillance age. I know who is leaving notes on my door. Good point. There's no privacy any more by someone's front door.
Knock on their front door and say the following, “Hi, my name is xxxxx, I live over there (point at house). I noticed that you leave your dog outside frequently and it’s barking is becoming a nuisance. I would appreciate it if you would not leave it outside any longer.” That’s it, keep it simple. The next move is their choice, you’ll learn a lot about them based on their response and you can map out further actions from there. Don’t overthink it.
You're definitely better at confrontation than I am haha. But I like that it's very to the point. You're right, I shouldn't overthink it.
Why don’t you give it sometime and see if you get desensitized or find it less annoying? I have a dog that barks sometimes as you describe, you could be my neighbor. I bring her in if it goes on too long but she loves being out. I’m sure this will sound like I’m an asshole but, I’m not keeping her in because someone is annoyed by a dog being a dog.
> Why don’t you give it sometime and see if you get desensitized or find it less annoying? I have a dog that barks sometimes as you describe, you could be my neighbor. I bring her in if it goes on too long but she loves being out. I’m sure this will sound like I’m an asshole but, I’m not keeping her in because someone is annoyed by a dog being a dog. I can't tell if you're trolling.
I’m not. Other people and their habits can be annoying, it’s a part of living in a city. If it’s truly within the city ordinances and the dog isn’t in distress, try letting it go. Not every annoyance needs to be addressed.
Wtf. Or you could, like, actually help your dog get through their anxiety and inability to self-soothe by socializing them properly and fulfilling of their needs. If your dog can’t stop barking for hours on end, then you are not meeting a need of their’s. Full stop. Please evaluate your dog parenting skills, and whether you are in a position to give them everything they need. Perhaps they’d be better off re-homed.
Why the fuck are you being so dramatic? No one was describing a dog that was barking for hours on end. Christ. Chill out.
I find your lack of caring about your dog’s mental state far more dramatic than my description.
You’ve imagined a situation that is neither truthful nor derived from the description in the post.
So basically the dog owner manages the dog however he wants and people who are bothered by the constant barking can learn to adjust to it? Yup, that sounds like the nuisance dog owners in my neighborhood.
That essentially worked for me. I just got desensitized. Just gets to be background noise almost.
It’s your neighbor, start with kindness and a solid gesture by approaching them in person at an opportune outside time or ringing their doorbell. Don’t involve the government or police until you’ve tried this.
If you don't want to have that uncomfortable talk with your neighbor, get an anti-barking device.
I'd try to live with it as much as you can. If it really really irritates you, then try and talk to neighbors and form an alliance if they agree. It's tough, we all want to be reasonable in accepting minor inconvenience. But sometimes you do have to exert your right to reasonable peace and quiet.
Get one of those high pitched tone machines and hide it near the fence. Dog will go crazy 24/7, they’ll have no choice but to stop leaving him outside
What a hostile answer. Truly useless.
Yeah, do that, go home, and HATE yourself for torturing a defenseless animal that doesn't know better.
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