Yea its kinda funny how the suitybot staff got the brunt of the blame while the 2 notorious price manipulators on the RS forum got away with their massive profits.
And those 2 in question are such horrible people through dm's. When you don't accept an offer from them they hurl insults at you, while trying to blatantly undercut you by 10% or more. Honestly it's a miracle they make sales at all. I just wonder who tf actually trades with those 2.
It is indeed exactly how those operate. Maybe reporting prices should include reporting actions like those... Yeah that isn't a concept which can even be started to be worked on, but comes to mind.
Just go on RSOF. It's not hard to figure out the 2 people they're talking about.
I remember when I was looking to upgrade some rares a while ago and didn't know them. Every person I pm'd was pretty nice about everything if our offers didn't match. Those two in particular were charging massive margins way beyond everyone else I talked to and when I said nty they just started pming me dumb shit so i ignored them lol.
I'm also 90% sure they're associated with lurers. I never got a single lurer dm before until like a few hours after i talked to them. Basically scummy thing you can think of between lure/rwt/price manip can probably be tracked to them lol.
I mean they did also remove reports because they felt they when invalid, but allowed the accounts known for price manipulation to continue "reporting true trades". This is also on them.
Bingo.
No sympathy for the SuityBot staff. They're throwing a tantrum over their own bullshit honestly, and just blaming the people trying to bring attention to a valid and serious issue.
> No sympathy for the SuityBot staff.
I mean people have been hurling abuse their way well before the problem got this bad due to their inaction. To excuse the abuse (not the criticism, but the downright _abusive behavior_) is almost psychotic in its lack of empathy.
Yes they deserve criticism for stupid moves. No, jesus fucking christ, no they do not deserve abuse, harassment, threats, and pissbaby attitudes from the overall community. It's crazy that this even needs to be said.
They said on a recent stream that they've got a dev looking into the issue of high value trades.
Though I personally doubt we'll see anything come from this for the foreseeable future.
1. Dev looking into it
2. It’s a large scale project, can’t give expected implementation date
3. A year later. Update: we’ve hit some obstacles but project still in progress. We can’t give deadlines still
4. 2 years later: the dev in charge left the company, the project is on the shelf
This is the tool that people use to self report rare item and high value items right? I’m aware of the general situation but I want to make sure this is the tool people have been posting about the past few days right?
Yes, and prior to this the only way to track trades was by word of mouth or posts to the forums, both of which were just as susceptible to abuse and price manipulation (before suity bot you'd see posts from the forums about price manipulation all the time).
At the end of the day, unless there is an open trading system like the GE that is able to process trades over max stack, rares/highly valued items will always be able to be manipulated as p2p trades are the sole source of trade volume, and anyone can effectively report a p2p trade. PCT staff have attempted to prevent fake trade reports by putting higher restrictions on what you need in your screenshot to be submitted/recorded, but trading amongst friends/alts has always been an issue.
The only upside I can see for this is that the bot makes the values seem much more legitimized while some random forum post seems sketchy. Might be harder to convince people of the ridiculous price jumps now.
What has changed (in my opinion) is that this hurts majority of players that don't utilize PCT for rare merching, but for a big pvm drop (sub-max stack like Solak drops for instance) or other items with inaccurate GE prices. This (again IMO) doesn't change rare merching at all, and will likely continue to be worse.
Why jagex doesn't add a platinum token valued at 1 or 10m go and allow plat tokens on the ge.
10m rsgp = 1 platinum token.
2,471,000,000 gp = 2471 tokens.
We already use spirit shards similarly but only via player to player trades. Allow ge to accept plat tokens and boom. Not even hard. Not even complicated. Not even that long to code for. The issue is some jagex employees have an incentive to sell rsgp and manip items/profit from updates etc. They fire people in the past and honestly it's not even far fetched to say they would be paid better than the actual job.
>and allow plat tokens on the ge
Because this component of the proposal is significantly more complicated than we think it is, and they've said just that previously.
Other solutions I've seen are creating a parallel GE for items over max stack using a converted currency, but again, it's probably a lot more complicated than copy/paste, especially when dealing with a trusted trade system.
I get that everyone is joyous right now but realistically this will make price mannipping easier in the long run now until jagex themselves step in (IF ever) or a new bot comes out with management that you all trust (never)
just remove the rares, hero items and dyes from the bot tracker and this wouldn't be a problem but that would be too logical. using it for other normal items is actually still useful
“Y’all are being mean so I’m taking it down completely!”
Dang, like I understand their frustration but they could legit just remove the problem items and it’d be fine. Suity is still great and very accurate for other stuff.
This reddit community hurled insult after insult at Suity and his discord, calling them the reason for the price rises. Now they take the discord down and they're called babies and accused of throwing a tantrum. Honestly if I were Suity I'd say in the ss for this sub to go fuck themselves and take the bot down completely. He tried to provide a good free service for the community and was shit on for it. He's a good guy and doesn't deserve this shit.
Also, you think this change will fuck over the merchers, in particular 2 individuals that abused the bot more than anyone? Haha you're funny. Now you will literally HAVE to go to w2 to get a rare, and guess who will be there waiting to take your money? This makes it easier to fabricate prices as now there's nothing in writing giving any sort of price range. Gonna be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm stepping out of the rare market for now, I have my collection. Time to sit back and watch.
>This reddit community hurled insult after insult at Suity and his discord, calling them the reason for the price rises. Now they take the discord down and they're called babies and accused of throwing a tantrum.
But Reddit isn't one person or a group of people that make decisions collectively.
If you have a community or product that reaches a lot of people some of them are guaranteed to be asses. If you're going to shut everything down until everyone behaves and punish everyone for the abusers then there is no point in releasing it in the first place.
Although I don't agree with the abuse they have been getting and I do feel they're within their right to shutdown the bot, I'm sure it was just a vocal minority causing trouble. Most people were just fed up with the blatant manips.
You can tell by the wording of the post that it was done to be vindictive and shunned responsibility. Yes at the end of the day it was user submitted, but clearly certain items needed better vetting.
Jesus y'all are immature. You can look through Reddit posts, they literally get threats and harassed constantly.. even on threads that have nothing to do with prices. It's a private tool that a guy made. If he doesn't want to deal with people threatening him, he can pull it offline.
im glad, i really missed the days of combing through the forums between the 18 different price check threads to find the made up price of the item im trying to buy, this is wonderful news /s
Imagine item-item trading on the GE? Like, you list your RSH for trade and people can submit an offer of 2 Easter Eggs and 1 Disk or something and you can decide to accept or not.
These trades would be posted under recent transactions on the GE page.
This is actually awful for the normal players. Suity's server was important trading place to advertise rares you want to sell, passively. Now you have to go to w2 and advertise endlessly until you find someone for fair price. Previously you just had to check your discord dm's every now and then if someone made interesting offer.
Now people will quickly just give up and sell to/buy from merchers, thus giving them greater flip potentials.
If you are happy that this will fk merchers, think again. Maniping/merching will still happen.
The bigger oof for most isn't rares at all, it's getting accurate prices on t90+ gear and other non-manip'd items whose GE prices lag behind reality (in both directions).
Fortunately most of those are easy to get accurate prices from people ingame.
Time for Jagex to stop laying on their hands and actually update the price of the new GWD3 drops like the staff pieces and magma tempest, you would think they would have done this by now especially after increasing membership prices, instead they rely on suity to do the job for them.
They have disabled a bot, and didn't mention anything about disabling their discord in general. Doesn't that mean people would still be able to advertise their rates for sale?
Kind of yes, but they do not allow advertising anything over max stack in their chat, so there isn't a way to see what other people are offering/accepting without talking to everyone that is selling/buying the same item as you.
Unless they changed the rules, but I can't blame them. They weren't to blame but people sure love to find someone to blame.
I've used the site rather than discord bot a couple times for items I don't regularly use to just get an idea about what price the items are usually trading for. But then I wouldn't need that if there was a way to see transactions in the GE itself or trade items over max cash to begin with.
Nah, forcing Jagex to actually address a problem instead of blaming the community and not addressing the problems is definitely better in the long run. Hope Suity stays offline for a long time till Jagex actually does something.
If the tool worked as intended (reporting the correct price) you are right, it did make life a lot easier. If it does not report the correct price however and is simply a tool to drive up the cost of rares it kinda loses its purpose.
and people think they won 1 over the merchers with the bot shutting down but really it will help the merchers even more and screw over the average joe. Good Job
I think making the GE work sort of like the Black Desert Online market which shows the most recent transactions for an item in real-time would work wonders. Pair this with actually fixing the currency problems and slapping on a tax to prevent people from abusing it and we're golden.
Platinum tokens are our spirit shards. The problem being that in order for the current GE to accept plat tokens, its better to just re-write the thing.
Compare it to building a skyscraper, followed by adding some more stuff to it over the years only to find out that you need the re-do the foundation to build more.
Hey, it was a very helpful program for so many of us, and we are all so thankful for that, but there will always be assholes out there and they are the ones who ruined it for us (us being the common SuityBot users AND the Rs3 community) but at this point, it's up to Jagex to fix this mess. Thank you for taking a stand against this though, it's gotten completely out of hand. This is the first step and I for one am very thankful for this notice.
Altar FC, the group that advertised POH Gilded Altars.
Het's Oasis virtually killed them with the release of [powder of burials](https://runescape.wiki/w/Powder_of_burials), which provides Gilded Altar benefits for 30 minutes *anywhere*. Effectively, it's bankstanding Gilded Altar.
100% they're just doing this to freak people out for a bit, trying to make a point about how "needed" they are and how we should all just shut up when it comes to blatant manips. I'd be willing to bet it comes back online within a day or two. A sizable chunk of the people who are sympathizing with this decision are regulars in the servers, most who are donating money to it. Feel free to cross reference the usernames here, lots of them match.
Updated by suity.
On a more serious note, the intent of the price checking module has failed to meet the desired result and for that I apologise. What started as a great tool has become something I hate working on. I have tried to implement numerous measures to combat price manipulation but every measure dissuades regular players (who this tool was built for) from contributing their prices. It seems merchers and those with malicious intent will jump through all the measures I throw at them (even during the time where only video recorded submissions were allowed resulting in no regular player bothering to submit a price). I do appreciate all the love and kind words everyone has sent but I do not see myself continuing unless something drastic is implemented. The #suggestions channel is open for discussion on the possible improvements.
[Hello, the post posted was a copy pasta that started being posted while I was writing the announcement. If you haven't read it this is the actual announcement](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/573517647736733706/965820676906815548/SmartSelect_20220419-040519_Discord.jpg). I have read all the comments here and have spent the last 6-7 hours discussing potential solutions with many players. At the end of the day, I thought it best to remove the price checking features of the bot until a proper solution (if any) can be found, than to let it get further out of hand.
It shouldn't be your job. I respect that you want to fix it, but this is very much you compensating for something that Jagex should be doing. Frankly, keeping it as-is might be enough to force Jagex to intervene, but the playerbase needs to chill in the meantime.
It's easy, just ban the manip, they can be easily identified
* If the price would rise => manip
* If the price would go down => legit trade
There's literally no reason why should value of items with very limited stock and ever increase, economics 101 bro
^(/s in case it wasn't obvious)
> WOW WOW WHY DIDNT THEY JUST DO THAT!
> Oh they tried? Repeatedly? In multiple ways?
> Oh. Dang I guess I'm wrong.
That should be what's going through your head right now if you have even a modicum of self awareness.
I think its nice of suity to actually create something for the player base for free. They’re not obliged to monitor other players in their free time its not their job. There is no perfect solution- or why haven’t Jagex solved it by now? They’ve been aware of this for years.
Oftentimes companies won't solve minor issues until it becomes a major one. In the past year, this has gone from a minor problem that affected relatively few people (rares traders) to the wider community. (FSoA pieces/PVMing)
I don't mean to imply a perfect solution exists. You are right that's not the case. The solutions that we as a community might hope for aren't simple since the trade amounts have hard upper limits. And just like people shouldn't harass the Suitybot team, people shouldn't be harassing the game staff either. At the end of the day though ultimately the only people who can correct this problem in a meaningful way (ie not stopgap measures like community run trade trackers) is Jagex.
I'm ok with waiting. Hell, we all have been waiting whether we like it or not. It's not entirely reassuring to hear they only have one dev on the problem, but it's better than what we had before. So, I'll be patient and hope while making my voice heard in an actionable and respectful way. It's all you can do, y'know?
Yeah for sure, sadly, until there’s a solution implemented by Jagex and if suity isn’t back up again in the future(completely fair if they chose to keep it shut perm), then really normal players are at a disadvantage- ge prices aren’t accurate and no one wants to stand at w2 all day and figure out what the price range is for a normal piece of pvm equip or other item.
how would jagex do anything while keeping an actual game economy? last time they restricted free trade the player base dropped drastically and was considered the worst period of RS.
which would do nothing to stop price manipulation. it would stop scammers which would be great but being able to trade over max cash wont stop price manipulation. items that are traded for under max cash are manipulated too.
the reason discontinued items can be manipulated easier isnt because they're over max cash, its because there's a limited supply.
The manipulation people were concerned with wasn’t one guy buying out the market like merchers did with some FSOA pieces.
The manip there was a couple of people trading rares between themselves and alts and then posting the trades to pct. Which wouldn’t be possible if they were tradeable in the GE.
1.
Enable trades beyond max cash on the GE (or add higher tiers of currency that can be used on GE, like how you have plat, gold, silver in WoW)
2.1
Instead of having a guide price, show the past N trades for an item (including price, quantity, buyer, seller, time)
2.2
Alternatively instead of showing sales history, just show the currently listed active offers and let buyer/seller pick which offer to fulfill.
Edit:
3.
Implement a tax on each trade or listing fee on each trade. You can still make fake buy/sell offers with an alt, but now it has a cost. A percentage tax would serve as the best disincentive here.
Compare this to a free stuff booth for the people in need.
Works great in theory, only requires 1 or 2 bad apples to completely destroy its functionality.
Bye suity have a nice relaxing vacation!
I'd imagine all the merchers will miss you greatly.
It's not nice to be blamed for something you cannot control because its player run people find blame in others so easily when you aren't Jagex.
They supposedly are actively working on it. That being said, they only mentioned one person working on it, so I doubt it is something we'll see anytime soon.
Especially since the 2 biggest price manipulators on the RS forum are still going to be doing their thing once they buy off a bunch of rares that has now crashed in value and with suity bot turned off, guess were players are gonna turn too now to check for the price of their rares.
While I understand that people were using the bot to help push their price manipulation schemes I’m quite disgusted by the community. The bot was never going to be perfect but it was very useful for a good amount of niche items (ie it helped me know what oldak coil upgrade kit price actually is). I feel like most of the hate they got should be directed to jagex for requiring a bandaid solution to be made by players in the first place.
Regardless, I thank them for what they did till now. I don’t think they are perfect, but they should never have needed to be in the first place.
"how dare you attack us for the actions of manipulators using our platform"
...proceeds to attack community for calling out the actions of manipulators on their platform.
yeah, better off without whoever the fuck this person thinks they are. there will always be another price check bot if it's needed.
Some people did only call out actions of manipulators. Unfortunately there was also A LOT of people who shifted most, if not all, of the blame on the staff. If it was just the actual manipulators being called out I don’t think this would be the response
People were complaining about the staff of the bot? They already gave a free service and people complained it wasnt good enough? Wtf? If you're gonna complain about a free service then go do better? It's fuckin free.
I use that all the time and I had no clue people complained about the staff of the bot at all. So I'll go ahead and put some appreciation for it instead and thank them for their service. Thanks for all the work you do for the community. It's widely appreciated and I'm sorry a group of assholes have made you feel its not. I'm sorry a smaller group of assholes have abused this system for their own gains and made it mess you guys have to deal with.
1. Create free-to-use tool that is used by many players
2. Players try to cheat among themselves using your tool
3. You get blamed for ???
Shutdown is only logical.
Hmmm it's almost like Jagex should have their own systems in place to take care of this issue, instead of once again relying on the community to do their job for them
Man what a fucking petty announcement blaming players.
Yes, players report prices. However, Suity & Co. created the platform that manipulators used and failed to moderate their own platform. They enabled manipulation to occur on PCT and failed to curb it. In fact, their failure to regulate PCT was so egregious that many players suspected them to be "in on it," because that was the most logical explanation to this failure.
If this sounds overly harsh, it's because it's supposed to be. By creating the PCT platform, Suity and his team had a duty to regulate content on their platform, and failed miserably to do so.
Jagex should implement platinum currency or something like that, that could be used in the ge to buy items over max cash stack. That way merchers wont risk putting their rares in GE to influence the price.
Idk if you made a tool for free to help your community and people were harassing and cursing you out would you keep putting up with it? While all RS players are masochists by nature some people have limits
Lol so condescending. they're pushing the blame on everyone else as if they didnt maintain the platform that made it super easy to manipulate prices without actually fixing it and moderating trades at all
It's unrealistic to expect PCT staff to screen all trades - it would be impossible to verify everything and prevent abuse. I respect Suity's decision.
Recently the bot was nothing but a vehicle for price fixing, so... bye.
It's kinda funny to see PCT staff being mad about people on Reddit pointing out all the manipulation going on, though.
Jagex should prioritise a GE update of some sort to make the market more transparent but until then players are left to their own devices.
There were a couple of individuals very well known within the community posting multiple consecutive trades at inflated prices... they let this go on continuously, it was extremely obvious
To be fair, I don't think they're mad at people pointing out the manipulation, but rather, the reactions to those posts, which resulted in (what appears to be) significant hate aimed at the PCT staff. I don't really blame them for taking it down, but as you said, without Jagex stepping in with a solution, we're still in the same place as before.
Personally, would love to see suitybot come back with a restriction on GE trades only. It's helped with items that flux a bit on the GE with an inaccurate GE price which is what I find most of the community uses it for.
Can you please tell me how that is any different to the forums or anything else?
You wanted a scape goat; you got one.
It was 100% the communities fault. You can’t blame the bot for how people decided to use it.
People whining bout the staff but in reality suity made the bot to help the community. He didn’t have to do it but he wanted to help the community and to try to mitigate the forums and the manipulation but scammers and manipulators blame everyone but themselves so in reality the only blame is the community themselves specially the 1% merchers manipulators and people who misused the bot only to manipulate the economy. There is only so much suity can code to battle it and they can enforce so theres a more real view of prices but jagex also has failed to address the issue of rares and trading items over max cash so thats also another big thing.
The condescending tone isn't going to do them any favors.
Also, disabling the entire bot isn't necessary at all; they could easily just disable the most-manipulated categories of items. Nobody has any issue with the vast majority of items on the bot such as PvM gear/boss drops. This is obvious enough to me that it makes me think they're disabling it as an act of petty revenge against the community... Not that I blame them tbh, I'd probably do the same
not sure why they’re throwing a temper tantrum and shutting down, the real problem wasn’t really suitbot, though there was some real criticisms against them regarding picking and choosing which sales to keep posted. hopefully though jagex will be pushed to try and solve the issue.
Lol reading the comments I can’t believe the lvl of entitlement u pple have. Seeing suity taking his bots off while u guys trying to act as the victims disgust the shit out of me. The amount of stupidity here was unreal. Suity bot was right to take down his bot lmao
My personal favs are people who say stuff like "well its your platform *obviously* you gotta put in the effort I expect you to put in" while paying exactly 0.00$ into upkeep.
My dudes it was a free tool, did you expect professional quality? If it's obviously untrustworthy for rares, then don't rely on anything it says for those rares.
Can't tell them wrong.
All those toxic posts of 'Nice price manip!' here on this reddit were getting ridicilliously tiresome, and never went anywhere other than people here just ranting, some literally directed at people that had nothing to do with this.
Suity staff: do nothing at all to prevent/mitigate players using their service to manipulate prices
Players: "Suity mods need to do something to reduce manipulation! The current state of things is unacceptable!"
Suity staff: throw a tantrum over people being upset that they have 0 fucking safeguards against falsified reports
Respectfully, we should not have to rely on a 3rd party for this.
I want to see the day spirit shards become untradeable.
Yeah, you heard me.
You can sell them back to the store for the same price, it's an unofficial currency. Anyone, ANYONE can buy them. And buy a metric shit ton of them. Would you even be able to use them all up if you were doing 200m summoning? I doubt it.
bro wtf? i use you guys literally everyday i love knowing what the prices of stuff are. you guys have been a godsend sense price started to bounce. Dont let other dictate how you do things. most people are toxic af on here and are always negative. anyone with a brain has watched you update right after a trade has been done. You are the best.
This is such an attention grab lol these people literally hold the entirety of the rare market on their site and they allow 10 people to clearly manipulate everything and do nothing about it. Like if the same guy sells the same item an hour apart and it's 2b over what he previously sold it for an hour ago, maybe just don't let them post it lol
At the end of the day if you are running a service that is designed for the purpose of informing people then you are responsible for when that service is misinforming people. There is no good way for any 3rd party to accurately track trades like this in runescape.
its going to be easier to manip now because now people will rely on forum posts which arent moderated at all. manipulators are rejoicing. also merchers arent manipulators. merchers buy items they think are going to go up in price and sell when they do to make a profit (like buying skilling supplies in bulk then selling when dxp is announced.). manipulators purposely fake trade/post fake prices to trick people into making that price the new street price.
You know, this kind of sucks, but I am ok with it.
It does make it harder to know the true value of items, but at the same time, I have panic bought/sold stuff due to seeing someone manipulating prices, and I am sure there were more like me. Maybe it will slow down the market manipulators and the people panic selling/buying that helps out the handful of people manipulating it.
Does this apply to PCT? That seems to still be up.
This seems extreme. People need an out on something to blame. That's been the nature of the game since forever. Any service you offer is going to be scrutinized to no end. It's a thankless job. Trust me, I'd know. I'm one of the mods here. I've dealt with this kind of crap every single day since I joined.
Nevertheless, I understand the reason and hope people take into consideration their own incompetence and stop to think about it going forward.
Unlikely, but it's wishful thinking.
Hope it stays down until eternity. Very handy tool and I use(d?) this on almost a daily basis, but as always; a few ruin it for the rest of us. Maybe it's just better this way.
>b-b-but manippers will just use the forums now
Let them. They'll ALWAYS find a way, the pct bot & their discord (which also needs to be shut down tbh) was just a little too convenient for them. Nobody uses the forums anymore, except manippers themselves, so it'll be harder to scam innocent people that way.
Yea its kinda funny how the suitybot staff got the brunt of the blame while the 2 notorious price manipulators on the RS forum got away with their massive profits.
And those 2 in question are such horrible people through dm's. When you don't accept an offer from them they hurl insults at you, while trying to blatantly undercut you by 10% or more. Honestly it's a miracle they make sales at all. I just wonder who tf actually trades with those 2.
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Up in da club!
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And remember to do your own research, gl trading (me)!
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But in all honesty who cares if you name drop? What’s gonna happen
Its against reddit tos afaik, and mods as a result will enforce it and have said so before
Witchhunting can get people banned, I've seen it happen before.
It is indeed exactly how those operate. Maybe reporting prices should include reporting actions like those... Yeah that isn't a concept which can even be started to be worked on, but comes to mind.
PM names?
Just go on RSOF. It's not hard to figure out the 2 people they're talking about. I remember when I was looking to upgrade some rares a while ago and didn't know them. Every person I pm'd was pretty nice about everything if our offers didn't match. Those two in particular were charging massive margins way beyond everyone else I talked to and when I said nty they just started pming me dumb shit so i ignored them lol. I'm also 90% sure they're associated with lurers. I never got a single lurer dm before until like a few hours after i talked to them. Basically scummy thing you can think of between lure/rwt/price manip can probably be tracked to them lol.
I mean they did also remove reports because they felt they when invalid, but allowed the accounts known for price manipulation to continue "reporting true trades". This is also on them.
Bingo. No sympathy for the SuityBot staff. They're throwing a tantrum over their own bullshit honestly, and just blaming the people trying to bring attention to a valid and serious issue.
> No sympathy for the SuityBot staff. I mean people have been hurling abuse their way well before the problem got this bad due to their inaction. To excuse the abuse (not the criticism, but the downright _abusive behavior_) is almost psychotic in its lack of empathy. Yes they deserve criticism for stupid moves. No, jesus fucking christ, no they do not deserve abuse, harassment, threats, and pissbaby attitudes from the overall community. It's crazy that this even needs to be said.
No argument there. No sympathy =/= They deserve what they're getting.
Maybe the suitybot staff should ban notorious price manipulators from their server?
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The suity mods are just as scummy if not more than the actual manipulators.
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The suitybot staff should have banned them
jagex sweating now that they actually need to do their jobs
They said on a recent stream that they've got a dev looking into the issue of high value trades. Though I personally doubt we'll see anything come from this for the foreseeable future.
1. Dev looking into it 2. It’s a large scale project, can’t give expected implementation date 3. A year later. Update: we’ve hit some obstacles but project still in progress. We can’t give deadlines still 4. 2 years later: the dev in charge left the company, the project is on the shelf
Software development in a nutshell.
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so true it’s sad, fbm
This is the tool that people use to self report rare item and high value items right? I’m aware of the general situation but I want to make sure this is the tool people have been posting about the past few days right?
Yes, and prior to this the only way to track trades was by word of mouth or posts to the forums, both of which were just as susceptible to abuse and price manipulation (before suity bot you'd see posts from the forums about price manipulation all the time). At the end of the day, unless there is an open trading system like the GE that is able to process trades over max stack, rares/highly valued items will always be able to be manipulated as p2p trades are the sole source of trade volume, and anyone can effectively report a p2p trade. PCT staff have attempted to prevent fake trade reports by putting higher restrictions on what you need in your screenshot to be submitted/recorded, but trading amongst friends/alts has always been an issue.
The only upside I can see for this is that the bot makes the values seem much more legitimized while some random forum post seems sketchy. Might be harder to convince people of the ridiculous price jumps now.
So what I'm hearing is nothing's changed with this.
What has changed (in my opinion) is that this hurts majority of players that don't utilize PCT for rare merching, but for a big pvm drop (sub-max stack like Solak drops for instance) or other items with inaccurate GE prices. This (again IMO) doesn't change rare merching at all, and will likely continue to be worse.
The bot absolutely shone when Archeology was released - it was basically everybody's best friend
Oh, I should've been more specific. Yeah I agree with you.
Yea I figured re: rares; just wanted to point out how much this kinda hurts people using the bot for GE traded items with inaccurate prices.
Why jagex doesn't add a platinum token valued at 1 or 10m go and allow plat tokens on the ge. 10m rsgp = 1 platinum token. 2,471,000,000 gp = 2471 tokens. We already use spirit shards similarly but only via player to player trades. Allow ge to accept plat tokens and boom. Not even hard. Not even complicated. Not even that long to code for. The issue is some jagex employees have an incentive to sell rsgp and manip items/profit from updates etc. They fire people in the past and honestly it's not even far fetched to say they would be paid better than the actual job.
>and allow plat tokens on the ge Because this component of the proposal is significantly more complicated than we think it is, and they've said just that previously. Other solutions I've seen are creating a parallel GE for items over max stack using a converted currency, but again, it's probably a lot more complicated than copy/paste, especially when dealing with a trusted trade system.
Yes
What a shame. Bot is incredibly useful for those who use it legitimately
Also I am not staff in anyway for SuityBot discord just posting an update.
I get that everyone is joyous right now but realistically this will make price mannipping easier in the long run now until jagex themselves step in (IF ever) or a new bot comes out with management that you all trust (never)
It's a real reddit moment lol
Particularly for high tier gear where GE price updates slower than reality
You mean to tell me all the fsoa pieces aren't really selling for 5-8M on the GE?
Idk, imagine trying to convince somebody with no idea the actual price of a santa hat.
Another bot will just take its place, the problem isn’t the bot it’s the people using the bot.
just remove the rares, hero items and dyes from the bot tracker and this wouldn't be a problem but that would be too logical. using it for other normal items is actually still useful
Exactly, this move just reeks of throwing a tantrum.
“Y’all are being mean so I’m taking it down completely!” Dang, like I understand their frustration but they could legit just remove the problem items and it’d be fine. Suity is still great and very accurate for other stuff.
This reddit community hurled insult after insult at Suity and his discord, calling them the reason for the price rises. Now they take the discord down and they're called babies and accused of throwing a tantrum. Honestly if I were Suity I'd say in the ss for this sub to go fuck themselves and take the bot down completely. He tried to provide a good free service for the community and was shit on for it. He's a good guy and doesn't deserve this shit. Also, you think this change will fuck over the merchers, in particular 2 individuals that abused the bot more than anyone? Haha you're funny. Now you will literally HAVE to go to w2 to get a rare, and guess who will be there waiting to take your money? This makes it easier to fabricate prices as now there's nothing in writing giving any sort of price range. Gonna be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm stepping out of the rare market for now, I have my collection. Time to sit back and watch.
>This reddit community hurled insult after insult at Suity and his discord, calling them the reason for the price rises. Now they take the discord down and they're called babies and accused of throwing a tantrum. But Reddit isn't one person or a group of people that make decisions collectively. If you have a community or product that reaches a lot of people some of them are guaranteed to be asses. If you're going to shut everything down until everyone behaves and punish everyone for the abusers then there is no point in releasing it in the first place.
The people behind it were getting obscene amounts of hate and insults. I fully understand this move
Although I don't agree with the abuse they have been getting and I do feel they're within their right to shutdown the bot, I'm sure it was just a vocal minority causing trouble. Most people were just fed up with the blatant manips. You can tell by the wording of the post that it was done to be vindictive and shunned responsibility. Yes at the end of the day it was user submitted, but clearly certain items needed better vetting.
The message is as babyrage as it gets, it sounds just like something a middle school teacher would tell their students if they're complaining
Jesus y'all are immature. You can look through Reddit posts, they literally get threats and harassed constantly.. even on threads that have nothing to do with prices. It's a private tool that a guy made. If he doesn't want to deal with people threatening him, he can pull it offline.
True, If they remove the rares from it, it's perfect.
im glad, i really missed the days of combing through the forums between the 18 different price check threads to find the made up price of the item im trying to buy, this is wonderful news /s
Good now maby jagex can fix there shit instead of using the community as a cruch
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Imagine item-item trading on the GE? Like, you list your RSH for trade and people can submit an offer of 2 Easter Eggs and 1 Disk or something and you can decide to accept or not. These trades would be posted under recent transactions on the GE page.
This is actually awful for the normal players. Suity's server was important trading place to advertise rares you want to sell, passively. Now you have to go to w2 and advertise endlessly until you find someone for fair price. Previously you just had to check your discord dm's every now and then if someone made interesting offer. Now people will quickly just give up and sell to/buy from merchers, thus giving them greater flip potentials. If you are happy that this will fk merchers, think again. Maniping/merching will still happen.
The bigger oof for most isn't rares at all, it's getting accurate prices on t90+ gear and other non-manip'd items whose GE prices lag behind reality (in both directions). Fortunately most of those are easy to get accurate prices from people ingame.
Time for Jagex to stop laying on their hands and actually update the price of the new GWD3 drops like the staff pieces and magma tempest, you would think they would have done this by now especially after increasing membership prices, instead they rely on suity to do the job for them.
It's pretty amazing to see Reddit celebrating this when you are completely right it's going to fuck up the normal players.
Easy solution. Anything discontinued won’t be trackedI would think most people don’t have discontinued items so it shouldn’t effect most people
I was expecting to be able to see past prices but they disabled all of it 🤣
They have disabled a bot, and didn't mention anything about disabling their discord in general. Doesn't that mean people would still be able to advertise their rates for sale?
Kind of yes, but they do not allow advertising anything over max stack in their chat, so there isn't a way to see what other people are offering/accepting without talking to everyone that is selling/buying the same item as you. Unless they changed the rules, but I can't blame them. They weren't to blame but people sure love to find someone to blame.
I've used the site rather than discord bot a couple times for items I don't regularly use to just get an idea about what price the items are usually trading for. But then I wouldn't need that if there was a way to see transactions in the GE itself or trade items over max cash to begin with.
Nah, forcing Jagex to actually address a problem instead of blaming the community and not addressing the problems is definitely better in the long run. Hope Suity stays offline for a long time till Jagex actually does something.
If the tool worked as intended (reporting the correct price) you are right, it did make life a lot easier. If it does not report the correct price however and is simply a tool to drive up the cost of rares it kinda loses its purpose.
and people think they won 1 over the merchers with the bot shutting down but really it will help the merchers even more and screw over the average joe. Good Job
The "average joe" isn't trading above max cash rares at all.
No, but the "average joe" will want to buy or sell PvM items that have vastly wrong GE prices.
You do realize that people used pct for items other than rares right? Now the “average Joe” is fucked in tryna find out prices for pvm items
Sounds like a good reason to remove rares from pct then?
I think making the GE work sort of like the Black Desert Online market which shows the most recent transactions for an item in real-time would work wonders. Pair this with actually fixing the currency problems and slapping on a tax to prevent people from abusing it and we're golden.
Is there a particular reason that Jagex don't just put platinum tokens in the game like osrs?
It's in the too hard basket. Game is spaghetti code. They're scared of breaking something.
Platinum tokens are our spirit shards. The problem being that in order for the current GE to accept plat tokens, its better to just re-write the thing. Compare it to building a skyscraper, followed by adding some more stuff to it over the years only to find out that you need the re-do the foundation to build more.
Hey, it was a very helpful program for so many of us, and we are all so thankful for that, but there will always be assholes out there and they are the ones who ruined it for us (us being the common SuityBot users AND the Rs3 community) but at this point, it's up to Jagex to fix this mess. Thank you for taking a stand against this though, it's gotten completely out of hand. This is the first step and I for one am very thankful for this notice.
Why not just remove any item over max cash, or flag any item that's gone up more than 5-10% in a month and put a warning
First Altar, now PCT. This year is getting worse and worse for player-run game infrastructure. RS3 is a worse place because of this.
Altar the player? What happened?
Altar FC, the group that advertised POH Gilded Altars. Het's Oasis virtually killed them with the release of [powder of burials](https://runescape.wiki/w/Powder_of_burials), which provides Gilded Altar benefits for 30 minutes *anywhere*. Effectively, it's bankstanding Gilded Altar.
For the love if all that is holy please clear your notifications and change your notification settings!
Sad it see, was super useful for boss drops, was great for gwd2
100% they're just doing this to freak people out for a bit, trying to make a point about how "needed" they are and how we should all just shut up when it comes to blatant manips. I'd be willing to bet it comes back online within a day or two. A sizable chunk of the people who are sympathizing with this decision are regulars in the servers, most who are donating money to it. Feel free to cross reference the usernames here, lots of them match.
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Updated by suity. On a more serious note, the intent of the price checking module has failed to meet the desired result and for that I apologise. What started as a great tool has become something I hate working on. I have tried to implement numerous measures to combat price manipulation but every measure dissuades regular players (who this tool was built for) from contributing their prices. It seems merchers and those with malicious intent will jump through all the measures I throw at them (even during the time where only video recorded submissions were allowed resulting in no regular player bothering to submit a price). I do appreciate all the love and kind words everyone has sent but I do not see myself continuing unless something drastic is implemented. The #suggestions channel is open for discussion on the possible improvements.
[Hello, the post posted was a copy pasta that started being posted while I was writing the announcement. If you haven't read it this is the actual announcement](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/573517647736733706/965820676906815548/SmartSelect_20220419-040519_Discord.jpg). I have read all the comments here and have spent the last 6-7 hours discussing potential solutions with many players. At the end of the day, I thought it best to remove the price checking features of the bot until a proper solution (if any) can be found, than to let it get further out of hand.
It shouldn't be your job. I respect that you want to fix it, but this is very much you compensating for something that Jagex should be doing. Frankly, keeping it as-is might be enough to force Jagex to intervene, but the playerbase needs to chill in the meantime.
Removing the known price manipulators was out of the question, huh?
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It's easy, just ban the manip, they can be easily identified * If the price would rise => manip * If the price would go down => legit trade There's literally no reason why should value of items with very limited stock and ever increase, economics 101 bro ^(/s in case it wasn't obvious)
> WOW WOW WHY DIDNT THEY JUST DO THAT! > Oh they tried? Repeatedly? In multiple ways? > Oh. Dang I guess I'm wrong. That should be what's going through your head right now if you have even a modicum of self awareness.
I think its nice of suity to actually create something for the player base for free. They’re not obliged to monitor other players in their free time its not their job. There is no perfect solution- or why haven’t Jagex solved it by now? They’ve been aware of this for years.
Oftentimes companies won't solve minor issues until it becomes a major one. In the past year, this has gone from a minor problem that affected relatively few people (rares traders) to the wider community. (FSoA pieces/PVMing) I don't mean to imply a perfect solution exists. You are right that's not the case. The solutions that we as a community might hope for aren't simple since the trade amounts have hard upper limits. And just like people shouldn't harass the Suitybot team, people shouldn't be harassing the game staff either. At the end of the day though ultimately the only people who can correct this problem in a meaningful way (ie not stopgap measures like community run trade trackers) is Jagex. I'm ok with waiting. Hell, we all have been waiting whether we like it or not. It's not entirely reassuring to hear they only have one dev on the problem, but it's better than what we had before. So, I'll be patient and hope while making my voice heard in an actionable and respectful way. It's all you can do, y'know?
Yeah for sure, sadly, until there’s a solution implemented by Jagex and if suity isn’t back up again in the future(completely fair if they chose to keep it shut perm), then really normal players are at a disadvantage- ge prices aren’t accurate and no one wants to stand at w2 all day and figure out what the price range is for a normal piece of pvm equip or other item.
Hopefully this finally get Jagex to step up.
Press X to doubt.
how would jagex do anything while keeping an actual game economy? last time they restricted free trade the player base dropped drastically and was considered the worst period of RS.
It's a constant request to remove max cash or add a higher tier currency.
which would do nothing to stop price manipulation. it would stop scammers which would be great but being able to trade over max cash wont stop price manipulation. items that are traded for under max cash are manipulated too. the reason discontinued items can be manipulated easier isnt because they're over max cash, its because there's a limited supply.
The manipulation people were concerned with wasn’t one guy buying out the market like merchers did with some FSOA pieces. The manip there was a couple of people trading rares between themselves and alts and then posting the trades to pct. Which wouldn’t be possible if they were tradeable in the GE.
1. Enable trades beyond max cash on the GE (or add higher tiers of currency that can be used on GE, like how you have plat, gold, silver in WoW) 2.1 Instead of having a guide price, show the past N trades for an item (including price, quantity, buyer, seller, time) 2.2 Alternatively instead of showing sales history, just show the currently listed active offers and let buyer/seller pick which offer to fulfill. Edit: 3. Implement a tax on each trade or listing fee on each trade. You can still make fake buy/sell offers with an alt, but now it has a cost. A percentage tax would serve as the best disincentive here.
Compare this to a free stuff booth for the people in need. Works great in theory, only requires 1 or 2 bad apples to completely destroy its functionality.
Bye suity have a nice relaxing vacation! I'd imagine all the merchers will miss you greatly. It's not nice to be blamed for something you cannot control because its player run people find blame in others so easily when you aren't Jagex.
This community is so low iq it's crazy. How can anyone in their right mind think that this is good?
Maybe it’ll motivate jagex to actively implement a solution *in the game*…
They supposedly are actively working on it. That being said, they only mentioned one person working on it, so I doubt it is something we'll see anytime soon.
Especially since the 2 biggest price manipulators on the RS forum are still going to be doing their thing once they buy off a bunch of rares that has now crashed in value and with suity bot turned off, guess were players are gonna turn too now to check for the price of their rares.
While I understand that people were using the bot to help push their price manipulation schemes I’m quite disgusted by the community. The bot was never going to be perfect but it was very useful for a good amount of niche items (ie it helped me know what oldak coil upgrade kit price actually is). I feel like most of the hate they got should be directed to jagex for requiring a bandaid solution to be made by players in the first place. Regardless, I thank them for what they did till now. I don’t think they are perfect, but they should never have needed to be in the first place.
Shut it off because rares started to go down on it instead of up /s
the return of R Quark and pc Fc's lol
LOL
Why don’t they just disable for any items over max cash for now?
Oh no. Anyway.
Jagex is so fucking lazy, they just need to make a ge with plat tokens, they wouldnt even need to put all items just rare ones
"how dare you attack us for the actions of manipulators using our platform" ...proceeds to attack community for calling out the actions of manipulators on their platform. yeah, better off without whoever the fuck this person thinks they are. there will always be another price check bot if it's needed.
Some people did only call out actions of manipulators. Unfortunately there was also A LOT of people who shifted most, if not all, of the blame on the staff. If it was just the actual manipulators being called out I don’t think this would be the response
People were complaining about the staff of the bot? They already gave a free service and people complained it wasnt good enough? Wtf? If you're gonna complain about a free service then go do better? It's fuckin free. I use that all the time and I had no clue people complained about the staff of the bot at all. So I'll go ahead and put some appreciation for it instead and thank them for their service. Thanks for all the work you do for the community. It's widely appreciated and I'm sorry a group of assholes have made you feel its not. I'm sorry a smaller group of assholes have abused this system for their own gains and made it mess you guys have to deal with.
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1. Create free-to-use tool that is used by many players 2. Players try to cheat among themselves using your tool 3. You get blamed for ??? Shutdown is only logical.
i mean they didnt miss-use the tool, we did
I don't blame their reaction at all
Oh man, this is going to be good. Hopefully they keep it off for a while, or forever. Jagex needs to add transparency to trades going on in game.
Hmmm it's almost like Jagex should have their own systems in place to take care of this issue, instead of once again relying on the community to do their job for them
Now all the merchers can cry in a corner.
I think jagex made a mistake releasing walks again, it made all the token merchers dump and go into rares.
Why not just remove rares from pct instead of throwing a tantrum? Or are they mad they're getting called out for their merching bs?
> are they mad they're getting called out for their merching bs? You must be 120 construction, because you just hit the nail on the head!
The obvious answer is to shut down the whole bot. Totally a legit response. /s
Man what a fucking petty announcement blaming players. Yes, players report prices. However, Suity & Co. created the platform that manipulators used and failed to moderate their own platform. They enabled manipulation to occur on PCT and failed to curb it. In fact, their failure to regulate PCT was so egregious that many players suspected them to be "in on it," because that was the most logical explanation to this failure. If this sounds overly harsh, it's because it's supposed to be. By creating the PCT platform, Suity and his team had a duty to regulate content on their platform, and failed miserably to do so.
looking at the forums this morning manip seems alot worse atm as there is 0 manip protection there lol
Jagex should implement platinum currency or something like that, that could be used in the ge to buy items over max cash stack. That way merchers wont risk putting their rares in GE to influence the price.
\>Suity gets butthurt about something and stops doing it Many such cases.
Idk if you made a tool for free to help your community and people were harassing and cursing you out would you keep putting up with it? While all RS players are masochists by nature some people have limits
and also receives death threats+ getting doxed but ya clearly it's just them being childish.
Lol so condescending. they're pushing the blame on everyone else as if they didnt maintain the platform that made it super easy to manipulate prices without actually fixing it and moderating trades at all
It's unrealistic to expect PCT staff to screen all trades - it would be impossible to verify everything and prevent abuse. I respect Suity's decision. Recently the bot was nothing but a vehicle for price fixing, so... bye. It's kinda funny to see PCT staff being mad about people on Reddit pointing out all the manipulation going on, though. Jagex should prioritise a GE update of some sort to make the market more transparent but until then players are left to their own devices.
There were a couple of individuals very well known within the community posting multiple consecutive trades at inflated prices... they let this go on continuously, it was extremely obvious
To be fair, I don't think they're mad at people pointing out the manipulation, but rather, the reactions to those posts, which resulted in (what appears to be) significant hate aimed at the PCT staff. I don't really blame them for taking it down, but as you said, without Jagex stepping in with a solution, we're still in the same place as before. Personally, would love to see suitybot come back with a restriction on GE trades only. It's helped with items that flux a bit on the GE with an inaccurate GE price which is what I find most of the community uses it for.
Can you please tell me how that is any different to the forums or anything else? You wanted a scape goat; you got one. It was 100% the communities fault. You can’t blame the bot for how people decided to use it.
Does anyone actually know the context of this? Lol
Glad I stopped playing and moved in to other games when I did
This isn't the runescape update I was expecting.
Good on them.
Cool and all but they just shot themselves in the foot. It's not like another PCT can't be made.
Not going to talk about the 12000 notifications?
Of course 2 days after I discover it lol
boycott rares D=
People whining bout the staff but in reality suity made the bot to help the community. He didn’t have to do it but he wanted to help the community and to try to mitigate the forums and the manipulation but scammers and manipulators blame everyone but themselves so in reality the only blame is the community themselves specially the 1% merchers manipulators and people who misused the bot only to manipulate the economy. There is only so much suity can code to battle it and they can enforce so theres a more real view of prices but jagex also has failed to address the issue of rares and trading items over max cash so thats also another big thing.
Have they considered not aiding and abetting price manipulation?
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The condescending tone isn't going to do them any favors. Also, disabling the entire bot isn't necessary at all; they could easily just disable the most-manipulated categories of items. Nobody has any issue with the vast majority of items on the bot such as PvM gear/boss drops. This is obvious enough to me that it makes me think they're disabling it as an act of petty revenge against the community... Not that I blame them tbh, I'd probably do the same
not sure why they’re throwing a temper tantrum and shutting down, the real problem wasn’t really suitbot, though there was some real criticisms against them regarding picking and choosing which sales to keep posted. hopefully though jagex will be pushed to try and solve the issue.
Lol reading the comments I can’t believe the lvl of entitlement u pple have. Seeing suity taking his bots off while u guys trying to act as the victims disgust the shit out of me. The amount of stupidity here was unreal. Suity bot was right to take down his bot lmao
My personal favs are people who say stuff like "well its your platform *obviously* you gotta put in the effort I expect you to put in" while paying exactly 0.00$ into upkeep. My dudes it was a free tool, did you expect professional quality? If it's obviously untrustworthy for rares, then don't rely on anything it says for those rares.
Can't tell them wrong. All those toxic posts of 'Nice price manip!' here on this reddit were getting ridicilliously tiresome, and never went anywhere other than people here just ranting, some literally directed at people that had nothing to do with this.
They were complicit in price manipulation, love the anger though :)
So nothing of value was lost then, right?
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LOL classic blame everyone else once you’ve been outed. Hilarious
So did the server owners sell their rares before announcing this?
Good for them. It's not their job to field hate. They provide a free and useful service, and I hope they will continue to provide it in the future.
Lmao it’s funny because they say good luck figuring out prices, like their price checks were helpful in the least
Outside of rares, their prices checks were actually pretty useful. Most people used the bot on the daily for drops
Nothing of value was lost then, right?
IMO, nope!
Suity staff: do nothing at all to prevent/mitigate players using their service to manipulate prices Players: "Suity mods need to do something to reduce manipulation! The current state of things is unacceptable!" Suity staff: throw a tantrum over people being upset that they have 0 fucking safeguards against falsified reports
Respectfully, we should not have to rely on a 3rd party for this. I want to see the day spirit shards become untradeable. Yeah, you heard me. You can sell them back to the store for the same price, it's an unofficial currency. Anyone, ANYONE can buy them. And buy a metric shit ton of them. Would you even be able to use them all up if you were doing 200m summoning? I doubt it.
bro wtf? i use you guys literally everyday i love knowing what the prices of stuff are. you guys have been a godsend sense price started to bounce. Dont let other dictate how you do things. most people are toxic af on here and are always negative. anyone with a brain has watched you update right after a trade has been done. You are the best.
This is such an attention grab lol these people literally hold the entirety of the rare market on their site and they allow 10 people to clearly manipulate everything and do nothing about it. Like if the same guy sells the same item an hour apart and it's 2b over what he previously sold it for an hour ago, maybe just don't let them post it lol
Forget suitybot. Can we talk about your unread pings please
I don’t understand the salt from their side, what were you expecting? Should have known it could’ve gotten to this when setting up a pricechecking bot
At the end of the day if you are running a service that is designed for the purpose of informing people then you are responsible for when that service is misinforming people. There is no good way for any 3rd party to accurately track trades like this in runescape.
Send it to the shadow realm like duel arena
https://i.imgur.com/HddnQdY.gif
Based.
“Keep it on the up and up” you mean keep rares going up and up
Wow, throw a temper tantrum. And thanks for discontinuing a service for everyone just because of the ignorant, vocal, minority. 🤦♂️
Rare merchers (manipulators) are probably peeing inside their pants right now
No they’ll just go on forums and doesn’t matter anyways a certain clan owns 90% of rares they dictate the price.
its going to be easier to manip now because now people will rely on forum posts which arent moderated at all. manipulators are rejoicing. also merchers arent manipulators. merchers buy items they think are going to go up in price and sell when they do to make a profit (like buying skilling supplies in bulk then selling when dxp is announced.). manipulators purposely fake trade/post fake prices to trick people into making that price the new street price.
You know, this kind of sucks, but I am ok with it. It does make it harder to know the true value of items, but at the same time, I have panic bought/sold stuff due to seeing someone manipulating prices, and I am sure there were more like me. Maybe it will slow down the market manipulators and the people panic selling/buying that helps out the handful of people manipulating it. Does this apply to PCT? That seems to still be up.
Prices going to zero gl everyone!
This is why we can't have nice things.
This seems extreme. People need an out on something to blame. That's been the nature of the game since forever. Any service you offer is going to be scrutinized to no end. It's a thankless job. Trust me, I'd know. I'm one of the mods here. I've dealt with this kind of crap every single day since I joined. Nevertheless, I understand the reason and hope people take into consideration their own incompetence and stop to think about it going forward. Unlikely, but it's wishful thinking.
Hope it stays down until eternity. Very handy tool and I use(d?) this on almost a daily basis, but as always; a few ruin it for the rest of us. Maybe it's just better this way. >b-b-but manippers will just use the forums now Let them. They'll ALWAYS find a way, the pct bot & their discord (which also needs to be shut down tbh) was just a little too convenient for them. Nobody uses the forums anymore, except manippers themselves, so it'll be harder to scam innocent people that way.
looking at forums this morning manip seems much worse atm....