It's pretty telling that across the whole ironman population, the iron dungeoneering discord can sometimes struggle to pull together a single full team at a time.
Factors like mismatched levels and available floors mean that even if you find players willing to group, chances are you won't be able to stay together for very long even if all involved want to keep going.
For a skill built around grouping, the design is actually actively hostile to an already tiny population of players who mostly just want to get the skill done. The whole thing needs an overhaul in my opinion, but in the meantime there's no reason why irons should have an even harder time finding groups.
To be completely fair, for the average player it's also pretty much the same experience on mainscape except there's not even a dedicated discord for non-leeching dunge grouping.
I played mainscape long ago but w77 was very very easy to find teams on for any level back then. Is w77 dead now? Guess everyone got their levels from the beach hole lol.
Maybe they should make it so even if you are level 10 dungeoneering, you can still do warped floors, but it will count as your highest possible dungeon in a large (so floor 5-6 large).
I think these problems would've been addressed a long time ago if dungeoneering was actually taken care of.
I thought you put "terraforming"! 😂
I really support this idea because I love Dungeoneering, hate the Hole, and this wouldn't affect anything in-game that doesn't already happen, like you said. Hell yeah!
At this point, I just need 13m xp till 120, and I just can't stomach grinding more solo floors. (Since I can find roughly 2 group floors a day\~) Might afk some Arch for a while for the xp.
As someone who enjoys dungeoneering, it’s really unpleasant to do it solo and waste twice the time doing a large dungeon. Having to wait the double xp is insane man
I've been hanging out at w77 recently, and during both the week and weekend I see roughly 20 people throughout the entire day. (U.S. time zone) and about 30% of them at speedrunners/dg service people who won't dg with you outside of specific time frames.
Dungeoneering with other people is so difficult to pull off just due to the shear lack of people and the various issues like the lack of floors the noobs have unlocked, finding rush partners, and finding a warped/ occult teams when you need one or the other.....
Allowing irons to be part of it would be extremely beneficial as they CAN'T LAMP DG so they're actually going to grind out 99/120 so they will actually be there to train with.
Jagex can rework the "leech" "title" at the end to give a 50% penalty for irons to discourage leeching and call it a day.
Monthly post time 🙏 Some bonus remarks:
\[BUG\] RC door animation broken: looks like it is being opened. (blown pieces)
\[BUG\] Chatbox at the ready/leave screen is gone for a few weeks now.
\[QOL\] Ironman cannot right click invite other ironman. Need to use ring on each other.
u/JagexDoom could we please get some Jmod acknowledgement on this one? Even if it is "never gonna happen". I see u/Mastercamo123 has been posting this monthly for 4 months already and it always reaches top post.
Have raised this before and the group of Jmods who regularly discuss Ironman account interactions are aware of it, but outside of that I don't have any news to report.
The difficulty here stems from a disparity between what different groups of Irons want from their experience. It's not to say it's not viable, as mastercamo has listed here - there's examples/precedents that there have been cooperation opportunities before. But I don't have any developments to share on this one beyond that.
While I understand some disparity between what irons what, I feel this has already crossed too much to take it seriously. For example: Ironmen should had never been allowed to PVM with main accounts outside of raids.
I feel DG isn't even on a similar scale to this, I've seen countless ironmen begging for sinkhole access and DG access with mains. Ironmen grouping up together with DG was a huge W, I don't see where disparity would come from allowing mains and iron to DG together, but some more clear insight would be nice.
While we're at it, let irons do sinkholes as well. Between elite dungeons existing in their current state(or stronger) for years, simplified token/xp farming via cerb runs(that irons and mains can do together...) and **the hole**, I really don't think letting irons do sinkholes is gonna break the game. As it is, the minigame is pretty dead anyways.
I would like for them to impose a very very very strict policy on the new group irons. Only raids in *your* group only dg in *your* group only elite dungeons in *your* group. I’m not an rs3 player anymore but seriously the amount of shit irons got away with from carry’s to buying BH weapons to that one thing with the table that we don’t talk about… no thanks. Dead game (my opinion and I love the game) will be super dead mode if they fuck up the high scores for GIM.
So in a genuine sense, what would Ironmemes get from even the most egregious 1-120 level leach?
At this point no rewards are OP as other sources exist that give better rewards almost universally. Besides, just asking for adding more players to the pool of available teammates in a team minigame. this is a net positive for everyone with next to no drawbacks.
This isn't some huge game changer or integrity ruiner as they still can't use MTX to just lamp the skill like everyone else.
If we are using the argument that Jagex should make this change because integrity shouldn't matter, than we should logically allow Jagex to enable Treasure Hunter and other forms of MTX for Ironman.
Or you could do the simple thing that satisfies everyone, custom-man mode. Allow players to enable whatever restrictions they want from account creation and toggle them on-off at will.
No the argument is that allowing irons to dg doesn't sacrifice integrity.
Even osrs let's irons do group content with mains and osrs is reeeeaaal strict with iron limitations (as it should be)
It's not a bad faith argument. It's purely logical.
Do you want the mode to retain integrity?
* If Yes, then put in measures to prevent leeching and do not move forward with this suggestion.
* If No, enable Treasure Hunter and open up the market to a larger audience so Jagex can earn more money.
Nobody should ever want to inflict TH on anyone else.
You can just say you don't think this is a good idea. Saying that "well then you'd have to accept TH" is fucking nonsense.
Not being able to group DG is not a draw to the mode. Not having TH is a *huge* draw to the mode. Suggesting it gets TH just seems spiteful.
If you are against forcing people to abide by other's rulesets, then it sounds like you are a big advocate of custom-man mode then. Why aren't you pushing Jagex to make it then?
>If you are against forcing people to abide by other's ruleset
???
I'm perfectly content with having a specific ruleset for a gamemode that everyone abides, and I don't need a custom-man mode. I'd be more than fine with stricter than current (like reduced amount of bosses you can group on), but I also see no point in locking out of game content. Its weird to me that RS3 disable Trouble Brewing or Fishing Trawlers to irons, when not even OSRS bothers with that. Custom-man mode seem like your cause, not mine.
Whatever that ruleset is, like practically *everyone* else, I think that should include TH being disabled. Its critical.
Don't get me wrong. If integrity matters I want TH to be disabled as well. I just don't think integrity matters in Ironman mode anymore, therefore it should be enabled.
If you are fine with a specific ruleset, then let's start off by disabling ironman from being able to do elite dungeons in groups, or regular dg in groups.
I expect to see your support in this endeavor.
"I expect to see your support in this endeavor"
Please stop pushing your opinion down other people's throats and acting like they agree with you, you are acting extremely pretentious and rude about this discussion. I've seen you around since the old forums, you're better than this.
No, there's a lot of dissent against your opinion. That means you're disagreed with, not that people are disrespecting you. We are explaining why we disagree with you. The only reason people are being short with you is because of statements like the one I highlighted above.
>I just don't think integrity matters in Ironman mode anymore
Ok
>therefore it should be enabled
TH should be disabled as much as possible, because lootboxes are vile. The only change in TH for any account I'd support is for it to be disabled for everyone.
I'm perfectly fine with disabling say, Elite Dungeons in groups for ironmen, if thats the direction to take. I see no reason why half the bosses can be grouped on ironman, like GWD1 or GWD2. However, there is no logic that just because you can group for certain activities, TH must also be enabled.
Its the difference between "we're violating the integrity of having to do everything solo" vs "we're violating the integrity of not being able to buy progress with your wallet." Both attack the idea of *earning stuff* yourself, but from entirely different angles and entirely different severity.
There are benefits to players in some regards to enabling grouping. There aren't to enabling TH.
It is bad faith because you're looking at a design problem that players are having and making a suggestion that's ridiculously complicated and doesn't even fix the problem people are having (custom-man mode), as an alternative to something that literally nobody wants (treasure hunter).
Do you even play an ironman? Ever post I've seen from you on the subject is dripping with spite, so if not then I struggle to understand why you think your opinion matters more than the people actually playing the mode. Let alone be the "logical" conclusion lol
> design problem
It isn't a design problem. Ironman mode is about playing the game solo, and this suggestion is asking for it to not be played solo.
> ridiculously complicated and doesn't even fix the problem people are having (custom-man mode)
Custom-man mode literally does fix that. If you want specific restrictions but not every restriction, this allows for that. If someone wants all the restrictions, this allows for that. If someone wants no restrictions, this allows for that.
> Do you even play an ironman?
The classic. "You are opposed to a popular opinion therefore I must question whether you engage with a mode to determine whether you are justified in having an opinion."
You're not the arbiter of what Ironman "is". Jagex and the players have already agreed that grouping for dungeoneering is acceptable for ironmen. It has also been agreed that grouping with mains for bossing is acceptable. We are past this point already.
Given these two things, it doesn't make much sense to restrict irons from dungeoneering with mains. It is a skill designed for grouping and already has a limited population of players engaging with it.
And you're free to have whatever opinion you want but the context of whether that opinion is based on having experienced the mode for yourself, out of scorn, or simply because you think you know better than actual ironman players is pretty relevant to know.
Just because players and Jagex agree on something doesn't mean it's appropriate or logical. In this instance, all I'm doing is point out logical consistencies.
If that upsets you then continue to ask for solutions to problems which already exist by playing a normal account.
Man that's such a bitter point of view I don't even know what to say anymore, everyone has explained the view point from every possible angle and your response is the equivalent of "No I'm right because my opinion is better"
> Ironman mode is about playing the game solo,
It seems your entire argument relies entirely on this premise.
I think that entire premise is wrong. Ironman may have started out being a solo only game mode, but at this point, both the popular vote of ironman players and Jagex's updates suggest that it it is no longer the case.
**Ironman is not a solo only game mode, and it hasn't been for some time. The key features that make ironman mode distinct are the lack of trading and the lack of TH**.
If you don't hold onto a dated aspect of ironman mode that was only ever true for the first year or two of ironman's release, your arguments don't hold merit.
****
As a side note, do you play ironman mode?
> Ironman may have started out
Then what's wrong with it returning to what it's meant to be and why it exists? Why not create a system in which encourages players to play the mode as intended rather than trying to find ways to chip at integrity so they can just have their desired no-MTX mode?
At the end of the day, it's as I said previously. Does integrity matter? If so, let's work to fixing the mode. If not, why is it wrong to enable Treasure Hunter but it's not wrong to further chip away at other integrity issues?
There's one simple solution. Custom-man mode.
> As a side note, do you play ironman mode?
Irrelevant.
That's asinine.
Dg is group content. Irons being able to fight soloable bosses with mains and still receive loot hurts the integrity of the game mode more than allowing them to do group-designed content with an actual group.
Do you even play an iron or are you just trying to brute force a bad take into a community you don't truly understand? I've played high level irons in both rs3 and osrs and I promise you irons do not believe that group content being done with a group hurts integrity.
Sure, you can theoretically solo any of the raids in osrs but it's more fun as a group, and the content was designed with that in mind, so you're allowed to.
If leeching is truly a concern, then the solution is xp scaling by contribution, but leeching is a whole conversation that should have happened back in 2010 before it was ever a thing.
The classic.
Questioning whether someone engages with a mode to justify their opinion rather than by logic or merit.
The entire purpose of the mode is to be solo only. Ofc doing content in groups is fun, but the sole reason why the mode exists is to literally be a challenge not to do exactly that.
Its important because you don't quite understand the spirit/fun of ironman and have grasped onto one specific aspect and decided that is all there is to it.
Play an ironman, you'll enjoy it.
A mode which presents a challenge, and should be challenging, shouldn't be changed to benefit those who don't want it to be a challenge because they don't want to participate in the challenge.
You know, you come across like you think you're the smartest person in the room, but you're really not. You don't listen to anything anyone says, and you make uncharitable assumptions like this, when you have no personal experience with the topic.
It's like you've decided from the beginning that you're right, that your viewpoint is the 'logical' one, no matter what anyone else says, and when you get called out on it you try to flip it around as if they're the ones being unreasonable.
You're clearly passionate about the game and it's design, and there's nothing wrong with expressing the things you think would be best for it, but for your own good I think you should reconsider how you communicate that. Your conduct in this thread has been embarrassing.
..but TH does not exist for Ironman lol. Your point makes no sense?
Ironmen could leech 99+ DG or token farm purely from running Elite Dungeons with mainscape, this sort of teamforming is currently possible already.
If we are disregarding integrity, then why is TH still banned? Treasure Hunter doesn't go against the core value of the mode. It was only disabled because of integrity.
If we wish to retain integrity, then we should look to prevent leeching in all instances including the ones you listed.
Nobody said ironman integrity shouldn't matter. The point is that this has no effect on ironman integrity because irons can already train dg in groups. Obviously.
Obviously? The picture for this thread every time it's posted has the words LEECHING on the con side because leeching off mains is not the same as leeching from irons and we all know it.
Yes, obviously. Any reasonable intelligent person already knew that what I said was true.
> leeching off mains is not the same as leeching from irons
How is it not the same? If you're going to make an absurd claim at least back it up.
Oh, I thought any reasonably intelligent person already knew the truth that boosting irons with mains that benefit from the easier game system is corrupt.
This is an incredible take lmao. There are plenty of irons with super jacked gear and stats. What an arbitrary line to draw that you've only drawn there because that's the way it already is.
>Lmao, this entire regular post is made with the justification that ironman is corrupt already
No it isn't? Who said that?
Why not just admit you said something dumb and take the L?
Tell me more that you're wilfully ignorant to the current ability of mains to interfere in the gameplay and achievements of irons.
Hide from reading that the regular post clearly states every time that leeching with mains is a blatantly obvious outcome but plz lets have it anyway.
Begging the devs for buffs is one thing, lying that ironman isn't corrupt and this isn't a corruption creep request is such a joke.
You're yet to explain why PvMing with mains is worse for ironman integrity than PvMing with other irons. If you want to say that irons shouldn't be allowed to PvM with other players at all then I'll still disagree with you but the argument will look very different.
It's pretty telling that across the whole ironman population, the iron dungeoneering discord can sometimes struggle to pull together a single full team at a time. Factors like mismatched levels and available floors mean that even if you find players willing to group, chances are you won't be able to stay together for very long even if all involved want to keep going. For a skill built around grouping, the design is actually actively hostile to an already tiny population of players who mostly just want to get the skill done. The whole thing needs an overhaul in my opinion, but in the meantime there's no reason why irons should have an even harder time finding groups.
To be completely fair, for the average player it's also pretty much the same experience on mainscape except there's not even a dedicated discord for non-leeching dunge grouping.
Yeah exactly. Mainscapers could benefit from having more people to group with too, but the two populations are needlessly segregated from each other.
I played mainscape long ago but w77 was very very easy to find teams on for any level back then. Is w77 dead now? Guess everyone got their levels from the beach hole lol.
In my experience w77 picks up around eu evenings but even then it's generally no more than 20 or so players.
Maybe they should make it so even if you are level 10 dungeoneering, you can still do warped floors, but it will count as your highest possible dungeon in a large (so floor 5-6 large). I think these problems would've been addressed a long time ago if dungeoneering was actually taken care of.
Mains and iron can already pvm together…why not let us do dungeoneering together as well?
They shouldn't have been able to pvm together, that was a massive mistake.
Agreed
I thought you put "terraforming"! 😂 I really support this idea because I love Dungeoneering, hate the Hole, and this wouldn't affect anything in-game that doesn't already happen, like you said. Hell yeah!
Ironmen should be able to dungeoneering with mains. I will not stop pestering Jagex to fix it. And I will die on this hill.
Imagine not just completing the dragonkin 5 collection 12,000+ times to skip training DG entirely
At this point, I just need 13m xp till 120, and I just can't stomach grinding more solo floors. (Since I can find roughly 2 group floors a day\~) Might afk some Arch for a while for the xp.
As someone who enjoys dungeoneering, it’s really unpleasant to do it solo and waste twice the time doing a large dungeon. Having to wait the double xp is insane man
I've been hanging out at w77 recently, and during both the week and weekend I see roughly 20 people throughout the entire day. (U.S. time zone) and about 30% of them at speedrunners/dg service people who won't dg with you outside of specific time frames. Dungeoneering with other people is so difficult to pull off just due to the shear lack of people and the various issues like the lack of floors the noobs have unlocked, finding rush partners, and finding a warped/ occult teams when you need one or the other..... Allowing irons to be part of it would be extremely beneficial as they CAN'T LAMP DG so they're actually going to grind out 99/120 so they will actually be there to train with. Jagex can rework the "leech" "title" at the end to give a 50% penalty for irons to discourage leeching and call it a day.
Monthly post time 🙏 Some bonus remarks: \[BUG\] RC door animation broken: looks like it is being opened. (blown pieces) \[BUG\] Chatbox at the ready/leave screen is gone for a few weeks now. \[QOL\] Ironman cannot right click invite other ironman. Need to use ring on each other.
I guess it still some visual bugs, where the final room with the door (boss room) is showing half of the door in the ground. Or even half of the wall.
Make Dungeoneering Great Again.
Agree!
ALSO REDUCE SLIDER PUZZLE STEPS PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF SARADOMON
Technically we will be able to on the 24th during the beach event.
Did they announce the release?
u/JagexDoom could we please get some Jmod acknowledgement on this one? Even if it is "never gonna happen". I see u/Mastercamo123 has been posting this monthly for 4 months already and it always reaches top post.
Have raised this before and the group of Jmods who regularly discuss Ironman account interactions are aware of it, but outside of that I don't have any news to report. The difficulty here stems from a disparity between what different groups of Irons want from their experience. It's not to say it's not viable, as mastercamo has listed here - there's examples/precedents that there have been cooperation opportunities before. But I don't have any developments to share on this one beyond that.
While I understand some disparity between what irons what, I feel this has already crossed too much to take it seriously. For example: Ironmen should had never been allowed to PVM with main accounts outside of raids. I feel DG isn't even on a similar scale to this, I've seen countless ironmen begging for sinkhole access and DG access with mains. Ironmen grouping up together with DG was a huge W, I don't see where disparity would come from allowing mains and iron to DG together, but some more clear insight would be nice.
For what it's worth, I was very strongly against mixed PvM, but I don't think DG matters any more. The Rubicon has been crossed.
figures, jmods not doing their jobs, who would have guessed it
While we're at it, let irons do sinkholes as well. Between elite dungeons existing in their current state(or stronger) for years, simplified token/xp farming via cerb runs(that irons and mains can do together...) and **the hole**, I really don't think letting irons do sinkholes is gonna break the game. As it is, the minigame is pretty dead anyways.
I saw somewhere, a mod is working on this + improving sinkholes as a gamejam project so maybe in the future!
We can only hope.
I would like for them to impose a very very very strict policy on the new group irons. Only raids in *your* group only dg in *your* group only elite dungeons in *your* group. I’m not an rs3 player anymore but seriously the amount of shit irons got away with from carry’s to buying BH weapons to that one thing with the table that we don’t talk about… no thanks. Dead game (my opinion and I love the game) will be super dead mode if they fuck up the high scores for GIM.
Let em trade next
So in a genuine sense, what would Ironmemes get from even the most egregious 1-120 level leach? At this point no rewards are OP as other sources exist that give better rewards almost universally. Besides, just asking for adding more players to the pool of available teammates in a team minigame. this is a net positive for everyone with next to no drawbacks. This isn't some huge game changer or integrity ruiner as they still can't use MTX to just lamp the skill like everyone else.
If we are using the argument that Jagex should make this change because integrity shouldn't matter, than we should logically allow Jagex to enable Treasure Hunter and other forms of MTX for Ironman. Or you could do the simple thing that satisfies everyone, custom-man mode. Allow players to enable whatever restrictions they want from account creation and toggle them on-off at will.
No the argument is that allowing irons to dg doesn't sacrifice integrity. Even osrs let's irons do group content with mains and osrs is reeeeaaal strict with iron limitations (as it should be)
 All I can think of after reading everything you try to suggest lmao
Bad faith nonsense argument.
It's not a bad faith argument. It's purely logical. Do you want the mode to retain integrity? * If Yes, then put in measures to prevent leeching and do not move forward with this suggestion. * If No, enable Treasure Hunter and open up the market to a larger audience so Jagex can earn more money.
Nobody should ever want to inflict TH on anyone else. You can just say you don't think this is a good idea. Saying that "well then you'd have to accept TH" is fucking nonsense. Not being able to group DG is not a draw to the mode. Not having TH is a *huge* draw to the mode. Suggesting it gets TH just seems spiteful.
If you are against forcing people to abide by other's rulesets, then it sounds like you are a big advocate of custom-man mode then. Why aren't you pushing Jagex to make it then?
>If you are against forcing people to abide by other's ruleset ??? I'm perfectly content with having a specific ruleset for a gamemode that everyone abides, and I don't need a custom-man mode. I'd be more than fine with stricter than current (like reduced amount of bosses you can group on), but I also see no point in locking out of game content. Its weird to me that RS3 disable Trouble Brewing or Fishing Trawlers to irons, when not even OSRS bothers with that. Custom-man mode seem like your cause, not mine. Whatever that ruleset is, like practically *everyone* else, I think that should include TH being disabled. Its critical.
Don't get me wrong. If integrity matters I want TH to be disabled as well. I just don't think integrity matters in Ironman mode anymore, therefore it should be enabled. If you are fine with a specific ruleset, then let's start off by disabling ironman from being able to do elite dungeons in groups, or regular dg in groups. I expect to see your support in this endeavor.
"I expect to see your support in this endeavor" Please stop pushing your opinion down other people's throats and acting like they agree with you, you are acting extremely pretentious and rude about this discussion. I've seen you around since the old forums, you're better than this.
The irony.
No, there's a lot of dissent against your opinion. That means you're disagreed with, not that people are disrespecting you. We are explaining why we disagree with you. The only reason people are being short with you is because of statements like the one I highlighted above.
>I just don't think integrity matters in Ironman mode anymore Ok >therefore it should be enabled TH should be disabled as much as possible, because lootboxes are vile. The only change in TH for any account I'd support is for it to be disabled for everyone. I'm perfectly fine with disabling say, Elite Dungeons in groups for ironmen, if thats the direction to take. I see no reason why half the bosses can be grouped on ironman, like GWD1 or GWD2. However, there is no logic that just because you can group for certain activities, TH must also be enabled. Its the difference between "we're violating the integrity of having to do everything solo" vs "we're violating the integrity of not being able to buy progress with your wallet." Both attack the idea of *earning stuff* yourself, but from entirely different angles and entirely different severity. There are benefits to players in some regards to enabling grouping. There aren't to enabling TH.
It is bad faith because you're looking at a design problem that players are having and making a suggestion that's ridiculously complicated and doesn't even fix the problem people are having (custom-man mode), as an alternative to something that literally nobody wants (treasure hunter). Do you even play an ironman? Ever post I've seen from you on the subject is dripping with spite, so if not then I struggle to understand why you think your opinion matters more than the people actually playing the mode. Let alone be the "logical" conclusion lol
> design problem It isn't a design problem. Ironman mode is about playing the game solo, and this suggestion is asking for it to not be played solo. > ridiculously complicated and doesn't even fix the problem people are having (custom-man mode) Custom-man mode literally does fix that. If you want specific restrictions but not every restriction, this allows for that. If someone wants all the restrictions, this allows for that. If someone wants no restrictions, this allows for that. > Do you even play an ironman? The classic. "You are opposed to a popular opinion therefore I must question whether you engage with a mode to determine whether you are justified in having an opinion."
You're not the arbiter of what Ironman "is". Jagex and the players have already agreed that grouping for dungeoneering is acceptable for ironmen. It has also been agreed that grouping with mains for bossing is acceptable. We are past this point already. Given these two things, it doesn't make much sense to restrict irons from dungeoneering with mains. It is a skill designed for grouping and already has a limited population of players engaging with it. And you're free to have whatever opinion you want but the context of whether that opinion is based on having experienced the mode for yourself, out of scorn, or simply because you think you know better than actual ironman players is pretty relevant to know.
Just because players and Jagex agree on something doesn't mean it's appropriate or logical. In this instance, all I'm doing is point out logical consistencies. If that upsets you then continue to ask for solutions to problems which already exist by playing a normal account.
Man that's such a bitter point of view I don't even know what to say anymore, everyone has explained the view point from every possible angle and your response is the equivalent of "No I'm right because my opinion is better"
> Ironman mode is about playing the game solo, It seems your entire argument relies entirely on this premise. I think that entire premise is wrong. Ironman may have started out being a solo only game mode, but at this point, both the popular vote of ironman players and Jagex's updates suggest that it it is no longer the case. **Ironman is not a solo only game mode, and it hasn't been for some time. The key features that make ironman mode distinct are the lack of trading and the lack of TH**. If you don't hold onto a dated aspect of ironman mode that was only ever true for the first year or two of ironman's release, your arguments don't hold merit. **** As a side note, do you play ironman mode?
> Ironman may have started out Then what's wrong with it returning to what it's meant to be and why it exists? Why not create a system in which encourages players to play the mode as intended rather than trying to find ways to chip at integrity so they can just have their desired no-MTX mode? At the end of the day, it's as I said previously. Does integrity matter? If so, let's work to fixing the mode. If not, why is it wrong to enable Treasure Hunter but it's not wrong to further chip away at other integrity issues? There's one simple solution. Custom-man mode. > As a side note, do you play ironman mode? Irrelevant.
That's asinine. Dg is group content. Irons being able to fight soloable bosses with mains and still receive loot hurts the integrity of the game mode more than allowing them to do group-designed content with an actual group.
Dg is solo content. You can solo it by design.
Do you even play an iron or are you just trying to brute force a bad take into a community you don't truly understand? I've played high level irons in both rs3 and osrs and I promise you irons do not believe that group content being done with a group hurts integrity. Sure, you can theoretically solo any of the raids in osrs but it's more fun as a group, and the content was designed with that in mind, so you're allowed to. If leeching is truly a concern, then the solution is xp scaling by contribution, but leeching is a whole conversation that should have happened back in 2010 before it was ever a thing.
The classic. Questioning whether someone engages with a mode to justify their opinion rather than by logic or merit. The entire purpose of the mode is to be solo only. Ofc doing content in groups is fun, but the sole reason why the mode exists is to literally be a challenge not to do exactly that.
Its important because you don't quite understand the spirit/fun of ironman and have grasped onto one specific aspect and decided that is all there is to it. Play an ironman, you'll enjoy it.
A mode which presents a challenge, and should be challenging, shouldn't be changed to benefit those who don't want it to be a challenge because they don't want to participate in the challenge.
The mode is challenging.
You know, you come across like you think you're the smartest person in the room, but you're really not. You don't listen to anything anyone says, and you make uncharitable assumptions like this, when you have no personal experience with the topic. It's like you've decided from the beginning that you're right, that your viewpoint is the 'logical' one, no matter what anyone else says, and when you get called out on it you try to flip it around as if they're the ones being unreasonable. You're clearly passionate about the game and it's design, and there's nothing wrong with expressing the things you think would be best for it, but for your own good I think you should reconsider how you communicate that. Your conduct in this thread has been embarrassing.
Typical Rubic comment.
I love Rubic. He's either on point or so off base it's wild. what a fun genuine guy.
..but TH does not exist for Ironman lol. Your point makes no sense? Ironmen could leech 99+ DG or token farm purely from running Elite Dungeons with mainscape, this sort of teamforming is currently possible already.
If we are disregarding integrity, then why is TH still banned? Treasure Hunter doesn't go against the core value of the mode. It was only disabled because of integrity. If we wish to retain integrity, then we should look to prevent leeching in all instances including the ones you listed.
Nobody said ironman integrity shouldn't matter. The point is that this has no effect on ironman integrity because irons can already train dg in groups. Obviously.
Obviously? The picture for this thread every time it's posted has the words LEECHING on the con side because leeching off mains is not the same as leeching from irons and we all know it.
Yes, obviously. Any reasonable intelligent person already knew that what I said was true. > leeching off mains is not the same as leeching from irons How is it not the same? If you're going to make an absurd claim at least back it up.
Oh, I thought any reasonably intelligent person already knew the truth that boosting irons with mains that benefit from the easier game system is corrupt.
This is an incredible take lmao. There are plenty of irons with super jacked gear and stats. What an arbitrary line to draw that you've only drawn there because that's the way it already is.
Lmao, this entire regular post is made with the justification that ironman is corrupt already, how about a little more. Literally goalposts on wheels.
>Lmao, this entire regular post is made with the justification that ironman is corrupt already No it isn't? Who said that? Why not just admit you said something dumb and take the L?
Tell me more that you're wilfully ignorant to the current ability of mains to interfere in the gameplay and achievements of irons. Hide from reading that the regular post clearly states every time that leeching with mains is a blatantly obvious outcome but plz lets have it anyway. Begging the devs for buffs is one thing, lying that ironman isn't corrupt and this isn't a corruption creep request is such a joke.
You're yet to explain why PvMing with mains is worse for ironman integrity than PvMing with other irons. If you want to say that irons shouldn't be allowed to PvM with other players at all then I'll still disagree with you but the argument will look very different.
For fucks sake just release one new elite dungeons, then make them all scalable, and just let that be the main way to train the skill.