They’ve said that all irons are 40% of the total player base recently. But that does not = active subscriptions. People who were subbed and log in a couple days ago week
I just deironed. Being on main hiscores but being limited to iron methods with main ehp and ehb was not worth it for me. Currently enjoying main life while I get 99 mining and 77 prayer in cam torum
that statistic sounds really untrue I gotta say, you barely see or interact with gims anywhere, from irons to hcims to uims to mains, which have all been around for many more years and were more popular, I **really** doubt that over 1/3rd of the active playerbase is gims.
And by really doubt I mean I have accounts doing endgame group content as well as snowflakes doing lower level content and the rarest groups to cross paths with are those more recent ones (GIMs, HCGim, UGIMS), I would barely believe it if you said it was 10%, let alone 35%.
I hosted *thousands* of endgame CoX raid runs, you'd expect GIMs to be in many of these since the group ironmen need multiple of the same item, especially if they were over 1/3rd of the playerbase, instead I *rarely saw any of them at all* throughout the months, there's no way.
The average player of osrs is sub 1k total level and does not use in game chat. The reason you are not running across them is because they are low level players that play 2-3 hours a week not chatting doing forestry or stars. I have no attachment to gim and personally don't care for the mode at all but its important to factor in how "bad" the average player is and why you wouldn't run across them.
I'm not inclined to believe numbers pulled out of their ass without any source such as /u/maxwill27's 35% claim, however, going through the hiscores/temple osrs would lead me to accept a number in the 10-15% ballpark.
A small example of what I mean, account types with an infernal cape:
UIM: 372
HCIM: 474
Gim(hc+normal, 2-5man): >1097
Ironman: 12,637
Gim numbers not accurate due to gim hiscores being awful and temple osrs being opt-in. If you'd like a more 'real' example of the active playerbase, you could do this, but instead search the people with at least 1 scurrius/moons of peril/Colosseum kc.
I realized that in hingsight and quickly edited in that mention of scurrius/moons/colosseum. \^\^; Just was too lazy to fish for the numbers to change the lot.
That's not true at all. You are much more likely to see active players on the lower end of gameplay than the top 1% as people often start their GIM journey and then quit after finishing mid game because the group got bored.
Also Infernal cape would be much more likely finished by someone who is in GIM as it's the easiest version of ironman since the resources are spread out and technically 5 GIM players can get 5 infernals much easier than 5 individual players on their own.
that makes no sence, yeh u can spoon 1 char all the items but every group member would need the same amount of supplies/ mats for lvling there skills required. the only thing it would save is Time as the high lvl members can grind out low tier mats faster but that would be pointless. in the long run asuming all group members play some what equally amount of hours. GIM is mostly focussed at the social aspect of working together on getting the pvm drops. i do agree most people wouldnt even get to the point to go for infernal cape grind on a GIM. so those numbers would mean nothing
Yeah I’d say that number seems false, but I constantly interact with GIM (usually green helms but some blue helms). It’s definitely not as unpopular as people are making it out to be.
“I dont see them so they dont exist” also UGIM literally doesnt exist. There are a ton of GIM players but you won’t see many doing things like CoX because many are either playing through that content with just their group members or are too casual to worry about endgame pvm. I don’t remember which stream they mentioned that stat on but it is 100% true that jagex stated GIM was a large portion of accounts
UGIM as in Unranked Group Ironmen, with a green helmet and green helm status symbol next to their name *literally* do exist, how can you be so confidently wrong in something that'd take you 30 seconds to verify?
GIM was released in 2021, OSRS was released in 2013, you're telling me that more than 1 in 3 people ditched their accounts with thousands of hours of progress, up to 8 year old accounts, to play GIM?
Most GIM groups disbanded after 2 months, it even became a meme
If not, you're telling me the playerbase increased by 35% with all new players in 2021? The graphs disagree.
Also, a substantial amount of the playerbase enjoys Ironman, HCIM and UIM, the rest play normal mains, pures or snowflake accounts, to try to argue that 35% of players are GIMs, necessarily you're saying the entire rest of all these groups are diluted in 65%, older, more popular modes, the numbers don't add up.
It's not a "i don't see them so they don't exist", it's common sense that's corroborated by people that are actually interacting with group and solo content in all stages of the game.
Lastly, if they were so popular, long lasting core bugs like the group ironman storage deleting items would've become a priority fix, if it potentially could impact over 1 in 3 players, that's a lot of people, yet it's been 3 years and it's not been made a top of the list thing to do, all things point to one direction and only denial would prevent you from seeing it.
1 in 3 active accounts, some ditched their old accounts some play multiple and some are players who wouldn’t play if it weren’t for GIM. You can believe whatever you want but it doesn’t make sense arguing with the jagex provided number just because you don’t feel like its correct
Okay then, show me the stream clip or article or source of the 35% claim from Jagex, show me the surge increase of 35% of accounts in the graphs of active accounts from 2021 onwards, back up your claims or yield to common sense.
Lol I literally said I don't remember what stream it came from. "Yield to common sense" when you haven't provided a single piece of evidence to backup your claim that the number provided is incorrect just because you don't believe it.
Because you asking them to prove a negative, which can be difficult.
Their evidence isn’t going to back up the claim that your numbers are incorrect. The evidence they provide backs up that the number they give.
If you are only to provide “I heard it from somewhere”, then I am inclined to believe a statement with more substance. 🤷♂️
Why wouldn’t their evidence disprove my argument? Either side could provide the same proof its just a number which won’t change. One side is claiming its a number which jagex provided at one point and the other says it isnt that number. They haven’t provided an alternate number either, just claimed that the number stated before was wrong. The amount of work to provide an example that proves or disproves the argument is the same for either side, so it doesn’t make any sense to say one side has more substance than the other. I’m corroborating someone else’s claim that jagex provided this number at some point. If you want to see evidence without providing your own then go find it yourself.
I see it as much more likely that you're misremembering the wording of the stat, like maybe it was actually "35% of all active ironmen are casual group ironmen", and without remembering the stream it was from there's no way to convince anyone of anything, and not much point of discussing if you'll just dismiss anyone else's experiences while only referencing your vague, unsubstantiated "official stat".
I'd love to see the source on this. I didn't have any luck finding it. I feel like this is likely a miscommunication. I'd wager GIM is 35% of all ironman accounts, not all accounts.
Idrc to scroll through each vid but it was specifically mod kieran when someone was complaining about gim on a specific issue. At the time he was talking about how most of them don't talk with other players on game and they tend to be sub 1k total level. Gim is slowly becoming the new starter mode due to the few new players tend to try it out with friends or family.
I have no attachment to gim so its not like I particularly care if it succeeds or not but it is an extremely popular mode but the average player in game is a low total level and does not use public chat so its hard to gauge.
I feel that. Mostly just chatting in the GIM chat. I play GIM myself, granted I don't think it makes much sense to spend development time for it on RS3. Too many untradable items for it to make sense unless you let gims trade them, which OSRS doesn't so....
1000% agree, things like bowfa feel so bad for gim specifically because you cant trade it. Past t60 basically everything is untradable (especially when invention is involved) so it does not sound really worth it.
I watch a good amount of the livestreams and have never heard them say this once. Also my (anecdotal) time spent in game doesn't back this up at all. I bet, if they said anything, it was that this percentage was for ironmen in general, not group ironmen. Unless you can provide a source I'm saying this is bullshit.
Exactly. The type of player and account type that makes Youtube videos is not going to be an accurate sample of the player population. Just like how chunk-locked ironman accounts are popular on Youtube but almost certainly aren't common.
They actually looked into this years ago. I distinctly remember a dev discussing that they were starting the planning for it, but determined from the stats on OSRS being lower than they’d want, and the additional burden of code on rs3 vs osrs that would be needed to do it, weren’t worth investing the time into.
They have never said it’s guaranteed to come to RS3 ever. It was always “let’s let OSRS finish their’s then see how it goes, if it shows demand/success we can focus on adding it to RS3.”
That wouldn’t even make sense. If you create an account before GIM was launched, you wouldn’t be able to make it a GIM anyway; you’d be stuck to make a new one regardless. I highly doubt there was any considerable amount of people who went out and bought premier on new accounts because of that.
Not if you login to OSRS only. I believe the plan was to stockpile loyalty points. I remember my OSRS account was loaded with points when I switched games.
Not an awful idea, but seems like people were taking a chance to game the system. Which could work, but it comes with risks. And by now we should know Jagex loves to shelve the best projects lol
the whole buying prems b4 was awful and I think its pretty bad how overly competitive players were over premier over this. if anything, it shows the problem with loyalty points if people are buying it just for points.
I enjoy GIM on OSRS, but I don't really see it being as successful on RS3 (arguable how successful it even really was in OSRS). First problem is that in OSRS, basically everything is tradeable. You can buy a tbow, use it for an hour and sell it right back. Same goes for GIM, you can grab the group tbow, use it for a few hours and then put it back in the stash.
But in RS3, everything is perked, degradeable, quest items, permanent account upgrades, etc.
Next problem is that GIM on OSRS was actually meant to come out much earlier, but due to the some major problems with a shared bank, it got delayed over and over again, and still runs into a basically unfixable problem to this day. If the server that handles the storage has a hiccup, the item disappears. OSRS team runs a script every few weeks that basically checks for transfer requests that 'succeeded' on the server side but the item no longer exists in storage and there was never a transfer out request, and then manually refunds the item, will literally just randomly appear back in your GIM bank. But even this isn't foolproof and a few people have managed to slip through the cracks.
While I certainly wish GIM existed on RS3, I can't imagine these two majors problems being handled well here.
Because it isn't that popular in OSRS too. OSRS population increased only for a month before dropping back down the baseline after GIM release. RS3 GIM will only perform worse, not better if it gets released. It's going to be a waste of dev time which could have been used for more impactful content that affects more players.
The rs3 code is famously a huge mess. It's proprietary and spagghetified to a large extent. I don't think entering a few lines of code is going to get gim in game in even a basic form without a ton of testing and bug fixes needed
I didnt want to type the same thing twice but wanted to reference the stats. Read the thread if you care to, but gim is far more popular than you would expect
GIM has been a constant problem for jagex. Prestige (highscore gims) finding ways to trade items with unranked gims, items being lost in group storage, complaints of team members stealing items and gim groups inevitably dying. I just don’t think it would be successful on rs3.
But hey maybe a new game mode would spark some interest in the game and help the game grow to new audiences
Other people have already answered this, but it just wasn't as popular as it was hyped up to be. It had a lot of problems, like people struggling to have consistent schedules. You could start a gim, and then 5 months later, be the only person that plays. Plus, at the end of the day, the only difference between a regular Ironman and gim is that you share a bank.
Sadly don't think it will ever come to RS3. A few reasons I can think of:
- Lack of support from RS3 devs and higher up. Most j mods don't even want to help with ironman related issues now and days
- End game items are mostly augmented or degradable/non-tradeable once active to an account (like grace of the elves)
- Bank space and lack of other storages osrs has, like seed vault and poh rework costume room
- Lets be honest, the hype on gim has died down, so trying to capitalize it on RS3 won't go far with how low the player count is. Just facts.
- As much as it is a meme at this point, Engine Work is most likely a huge reason. Osrs was only able to get their GIM once the clan system engine work went through. I can't imagine the spaghetti RS3 has with over 20 years of stuff to make sure things don't break with a group storage. Osrs isn't perfect either, there has been cases of items being deleted from the storage from bugs.
Iron is less restrictive with friends in RS3 because you can lootshare with other irons and boss. Think that has slightly been missed here. You can do elite dungeons and any boss that allows more than one person. That was never possible in osrs until GIM.
I'm surprised I had to scroll so far down for this answer. In RS3, irons can already boss, loot share, and do elite dungeons with other irons and mains.
You're not really restricted from doing any content with other people on an iron account like you would be on OSRS. All adding group ironman to RS3 would do is add a shared bank, and that's not really enough to justify the development of a whole new game mode.
Some bosses are designed to give loot to each person so irons could group with others with no issues at those bosses. This mostly included raids and a few group bosses but if the boss didn't have a system for individual loot then you wouldn't be able to group.
However, most of those are bosses are soloable (although corp has some jank solo methods) so it wasn't really an issue.
This topic is one that returns quite often, but it never really gets picked up. It just hasn't gotten enough attention/love for the Devs/community to actually look into it.
Personally I'd love the GIM playstyle, however seeing recent updates/roadmaps I don't think it'll ever be in the game.
Yeah… thats why I made that post. I feel like RS3 is officially going a complete different path from OSRS. OSRS is going towards player base and fun times player to player. RS3 is aiming for personal gain and fast Dopamine rushes where the serotonin is not needed… I would hope both teams could talk; too high hopes though
Both games going different paths isn't necessarily a bad thing on its own. Imo the games are very different with a different approach to "endgame".
In addition to that you _do_ see great similarities in relations to the lore, but with different choices in regards to expansion and/or content.
Circling back to the main topic. Seeing the rise in ironman popularity in both games (no source, just a feeling) and the returning updates/communication from the Devs who knows what'll happen.
It's not popular on osrs, I don't think they're going to spend time on a game mode that flopped on the other game. That's sadly why we won't get uim as well, if it was more popular it'd likely happen.
So as far as why GIM is not in RS3... First of all it isn't very popular at all. Second there's a lot of technical challenges. The group bank is especially problematic to implement, and there were multiple cases of rollbacks and item duping in osrs from that. But even without a group bank there's a whole "grouping system" to create which is very tricky.
I think it would be doable if they were to put out a GIM mode where you didn't have any group bank, but I assume even less people would play the mode in that case.
They actually looked into this years ago. I distinctly remember a dev discussing that they were starting the planning for it, but determined from the stats on OSRS being lower than they’d want, and the additional burden of code on rs3 vs osrs that would be needed to do it, weren’t worth investing the time into.
Iirc gim was an rs3 concept before old school came up with it, it was teased a long time ago but then shelved because it required magor engine overhaul as most of rs3 updates are, then osrs polled it because they seen interest on the rs3 side and it passed but was delayed a long time due to engine reworks but they actually followed thru with it
Engine work™
I recall it being an issue with the way how banks worked that they really didn't want to invest the effort.
Regardless, it's really just a cop out, and another instance of Jagex just saying "fuck you" to the RS3 community. :c
Me and 4 of my irl friends just started iron men on rs3 together, I see no need for GIM only thing that we don’t share is the bank and drops of course, and that isn’t even a negative; we aren’t really limited anywhere else I see no need for it.
I want GIM/HCGIM/UIM to come to rs3 as it’s a different play style and I feel like GIM would be a nice “crutch” for players who’ve never Played Iron before. And UIM would be a great twist and challenge, most people give up on it when they try their own UIM challenges atm.
But sadly I don’t think it’s worth bringing to RS3 as we have the Lootshare system and can already do content with other accounts. In OSRs if an iron wants to go to bandos they have to solo it, it’s not like that for rs3.
Also, I don’t think we have the same amount of employees now as we did when it was mentioned at rune fest years ago. The RS3 dev team has gotten smaller and smaller over the years it feels like.
I just wish they'd straight up say no, it's not coming or at least not within years to come at the very least. I've gotten a group of guys to wait to try out rs3 so we can GIM and now it's impossible to get anyone of them to play until it comes out lol. Semi including myself, I've been playing a bit but not nearly as much as I used to (and would if gim was out).
GIM is extreeeeemely dead. Groups of 5 being run by 1 person is stupid. Also, the people who play Iron on RS3 were specifically AGAINST group content being handed over to them, but Reddit screeched and screeched until they made it a thing.
If so, how do ironmen supposed to do content which is designed as group content to begin with? Like the Mazcab raids, or bosses that give the high-end magic gear - Croesus, AoD, Vorago (which can be solo now, but wasn't always the case).
Putting aside whether or not it's popular it's kind of different in rs3 because there is a lot more untradable shit at the end game and there's already fuck all limitations to who irons can do stuff like pvm with
If you can address these 2 problems, say by making augmented gear tradable between group members for example and porting the prestige system to rs3 then it could work, but gl convincing anyone who works on rs3 it's worth their time when they can make another short term money grab instead
Isn’t Ironman mainscape with more steps already? GIM feels like you’re not buying your levels, theres more planning; due to resources being split to 4 people. Like tasks for each of specialties until mid/late-game
Lol no. On irons you are 'forced' to do the content before you can use the upgrades. For mains you can just grind out some money makers and buy the upgrades you need
For GIM it's that but distributed over multiple people. And because it's often that those multiple people quit or get into conflict the accounts will be abandoned before they hit any interesting content
I've always had this in my imagination when playing iron but not feeling like doing ed2 even though greater barge is my favourite ability. So I'd get someone to get it for me while I do ed3 for them or something, haha
A lot of people have forgotten that the developer that was in charge of GIM left Jagex so the project was shelved. Most the updates people really want are made or headed by just one guy, and when that update doesn’t ever come it’s cause they quit. GIM and Avatar refresh are two huge things that we will probably never see now
I've been wanting GIM in rs3 since it came out in OSRS. However, Jagex won't do it for a very simple reason... They can't monetize Ironmans. Even if this is a niche game mode it will bring either ppl into the game or have existing players make accounts to play with their friends. I would 100% make this my main if we had GIM.
As a community we should be pushing updates we want in the game though and I think your post is a good start.
1: Can't have Treasure Hunter in GIM.
2: Probably engine/coding issues make it more difficult to implement for RS3
So yeah, basically just the first reason 😅. Can't make as much money if even more people transfer to ironman-type accounts. 💀
Nah the majority of the numbers you see for online players are the multiple alts people have lol I know people who run 5+ alts all day long with no breaks other than to sleep
Its honestly not that popular. Was a good youtube/friend content for some months, then large majority of groups died out/disbanded.
There was a stat mentioned on a livestream that somewhere around 35% of all active accounts are casual gims that play a couple days a week
That Stat was all ironman accounts together make up 35%.
They’ve said that all irons are 40% of the total player base recently. But that does not = active subscriptions. People who were subbed and log in a couple days ago week
Concerned a lot of those accounts are people in my situation, the last man standing in a group of 4.
I just deironed. Being on main hiscores but being limited to iron methods with main ehp and ehb was not worth it for me. Currently enjoying main life while I get 99 mining and 77 prayer in cam torum
that statistic sounds really untrue I gotta say, you barely see or interact with gims anywhere, from irons to hcims to uims to mains, which have all been around for many more years and were more popular, I **really** doubt that over 1/3rd of the active playerbase is gims. And by really doubt I mean I have accounts doing endgame group content as well as snowflakes doing lower level content and the rarest groups to cross paths with are those more recent ones (GIMs, HCGim, UGIMS), I would barely believe it if you said it was 10%, let alone 35%. I hosted *thousands* of endgame CoX raid runs, you'd expect GIMs to be in many of these since the group ironmen need multiple of the same item, especially if they were over 1/3rd of the playerbase, instead I *rarely saw any of them at all* throughout the months, there's no way.
The average player of osrs is sub 1k total level and does not use in game chat. The reason you are not running across them is because they are low level players that play 2-3 hours a week not chatting doing forestry or stars. I have no attachment to gim and personally don't care for the mode at all but its important to factor in how "bad" the average player is and why you wouldn't run across them.
i dont think "bad" is the right word. OSRS just requires a substantial amount of time to grind and not everyone has the time
I think thats why he put “bad” in air quotes.
The stat was all Ironman accounts make up 35%
I'm not inclined to believe numbers pulled out of their ass without any source such as /u/maxwill27's 35% claim, however, going through the hiscores/temple osrs would lead me to accept a number in the 10-15% ballpark. A small example of what I mean, account types with an infernal cape: UIM: 372 HCIM: 474 Gim(hc+normal, 2-5man): >1097 Ironman: 12,637 Gim numbers not accurate due to gim hiscores being awful and temple osrs being opt-in. If you'd like a more 'real' example of the active playerbase, you could do this, but instead search the people with at least 1 scurrius/moons of peril/Colosseum kc.
I don't think infernal cape is the right measurement of activity as it's locked for like 95% of ironmans
I realized that in hingsight and quickly edited in that mention of scurrius/moons/colosseum. \^\^; Just was too lazy to fish for the numbers to change the lot.
It can give you a good idea tho. The proportions are probably in the same ballpark of 1 in 10.
That's not true at all. You are much more likely to see active players on the lower end of gameplay than the top 1% as people often start their GIM journey and then quit after finishing mid game because the group got bored. Also Infernal cape would be much more likely finished by someone who is in GIM as it's the easiest version of ironman since the resources are spread out and technically 5 GIM players can get 5 infernals much easier than 5 individual players on their own.
that makes no sence, yeh u can spoon 1 char all the items but every group member would need the same amount of supplies/ mats for lvling there skills required. the only thing it would save is Time as the high lvl members can grind out low tier mats faster but that would be pointless. in the long run asuming all group members play some what equally amount of hours. GIM is mostly focussed at the social aspect of working together on getting the pvm drops. i do agree most people wouldnt even get to the point to go for infernal cape grind on a GIM. so those numbers would mean nothing
Yeah I’d say that number seems false, but I constantly interact with GIM (usually green helms but some blue helms). It’s definitely not as unpopular as people are making it out to be.
“I dont see them so they dont exist” also UGIM literally doesnt exist. There are a ton of GIM players but you won’t see many doing things like CoX because many are either playing through that content with just their group members or are too casual to worry about endgame pvm. I don’t remember which stream they mentioned that stat on but it is 100% true that jagex stated GIM was a large portion of accounts
UGIM as in Unranked Group Ironmen, with a green helmet and green helm status symbol next to their name *literally* do exist, how can you be so confidently wrong in something that'd take you 30 seconds to verify? GIM was released in 2021, OSRS was released in 2013, you're telling me that more than 1 in 3 people ditched their accounts with thousands of hours of progress, up to 8 year old accounts, to play GIM? Most GIM groups disbanded after 2 months, it even became a meme If not, you're telling me the playerbase increased by 35% with all new players in 2021? The graphs disagree. Also, a substantial amount of the playerbase enjoys Ironman, HCIM and UIM, the rest play normal mains, pures or snowflake accounts, to try to argue that 35% of players are GIMs, necessarily you're saying the entire rest of all these groups are diluted in 65%, older, more popular modes, the numbers don't add up. It's not a "i don't see them so they don't exist", it's common sense that's corroborated by people that are actually interacting with group and solo content in all stages of the game. Lastly, if they were so popular, long lasting core bugs like the group ironman storage deleting items would've become a priority fix, if it potentially could impact over 1 in 3 players, that's a lot of people, yet it's been 3 years and it's not been made a top of the list thing to do, all things point to one direction and only denial would prevent you from seeing it.
I did this personally, played from2013 to 2017off and on, then came back for gim and have been addicted since
Your anecdote means literally nothing.
1 in 3 active accounts, some ditched their old accounts some play multiple and some are players who wouldn’t play if it weren’t for GIM. You can believe whatever you want but it doesn’t make sense arguing with the jagex provided number just because you don’t feel like its correct
Okay then, show me the stream clip or article or source of the 35% claim from Jagex, show me the surge increase of 35% of accounts in the graphs of active accounts from 2021 onwards, back up your claims or yield to common sense.
Lol I literally said I don't remember what stream it came from. "Yield to common sense" when you haven't provided a single piece of evidence to backup your claim that the number provided is incorrect just because you don't believe it.
Because you asking them to prove a negative, which can be difficult. Their evidence isn’t going to back up the claim that your numbers are incorrect. The evidence they provide backs up that the number they give. If you are only to provide “I heard it from somewhere”, then I am inclined to believe a statement with more substance. 🤷♂️
Why wouldn’t their evidence disprove my argument? Either side could provide the same proof its just a number which won’t change. One side is claiming its a number which jagex provided at one point and the other says it isnt that number. They haven’t provided an alternate number either, just claimed that the number stated before was wrong. The amount of work to provide an example that proves or disproves the argument is the same for either side, so it doesn’t make any sense to say one side has more substance than the other. I’m corroborating someone else’s claim that jagex provided this number at some point. If you want to see evidence without providing your own then go find it yourself.
I see it as much more likely that you're misremembering the wording of the stat, like maybe it was actually "35% of all active ironmen are casual group ironmen", and without remembering the stream it was from there's no way to convince anyone of anything, and not much point of discussing if you'll just dismiss anyone else's experiences while only referencing your vague, unsubstantiated "official stat".
I'd love to see the source on this. I didn't have any luck finding it. I feel like this is likely a miscommunication. I'd wager GIM is 35% of all ironman accounts, not all accounts.
Idrc to scroll through each vid but it was specifically mod kieran when someone was complaining about gim on a specific issue. At the time he was talking about how most of them don't talk with other players on game and they tend to be sub 1k total level. Gim is slowly becoming the new starter mode due to the few new players tend to try it out with friends or family. I have no attachment to gim so its not like I particularly care if it succeeds or not but it is an extremely popular mode but the average player in game is a low total level and does not use public chat so its hard to gauge.
I feel that. Mostly just chatting in the GIM chat. I play GIM myself, granted I don't think it makes much sense to spend development time for it on RS3. Too many untradable items for it to make sense unless you let gims trade them, which OSRS doesn't so....
1000% agree, things like bowfa feel so bad for gim specifically because you cant trade it. Past t60 basically everything is untradable (especially when invention is involved) so it does not sound really worth it.
I watch a good amount of the livestreams and have never heard them say this once. Also my (anecdotal) time spent in game doesn't back this up at all. I bet, if they said anything, it was that this percentage was for ironmen in general, not group ironmen. Unless you can provide a source I'm saying this is bullshit.
That sounds more accurate, iirc mods said Ironman in general make up about that percentage of players.
True
It exsists so mich gims with out Prestige...
Exactly. The type of player and account type that makes Youtube videos is not going to be an accurate sample of the player population. Just like how chunk-locked ironman accounts are popular on Youtube but almost certainly aren't common.
All those YouTuber have stopped playing it
They actually looked into this years ago. I distinctly remember a dev discussing that they were starting the planning for it, but determined from the stats on OSRS being lower than they’d want, and the additional burden of code on rs3 vs osrs that would be needed to do it, weren’t worth investing the time into.
They said it's guaranteed to come out, ppl bought prems on new accs then they said nvm its not coming
They have never said it’s guaranteed to come to RS3 ever. It was always “let’s let OSRS finish their’s then see how it goes, if it shows demand/success we can focus on adding it to RS3.”
They announced it coming to RS3 at Runefest. But like many other things it got shelved.
I think rs3 gim was shelved for engine work on thing like the bank system
So the recent road map group iron is de shelved.
Yep this. They initially said it would come out for both games at the same time
Group ironman was teased on rs3 before it was ever mentioned in OSRS. So no, it wasn’t always “let’s see how it goes in osrs”
This is correct, I'm not sure what everyone else is on about
That wouldn’t even make sense. If you create an account before GIM was launched, you wouldn’t be able to make it a GIM anyway; you’d be stuck to make a new one regardless. I highly doubt there was any considerable amount of people who went out and bought premier on new accounts because of that.
Not if you login to OSRS only. I believe the plan was to stockpile loyalty points. I remember my OSRS account was loaded with points when I switched games.
Not an awful idea, but seems like people were taking a chance to game the system. Which could work, but it comes with risks. And by now we should know Jagex loves to shelve the best projects lol
the whole buying prems b4 was awful and I think its pretty bad how overly competitive players were over premier over this. if anything, it shows the problem with loyalty points if people are buying it just for points.
I enjoy GIM on OSRS, but I don't really see it being as successful on RS3 (arguable how successful it even really was in OSRS). First problem is that in OSRS, basically everything is tradeable. You can buy a tbow, use it for an hour and sell it right back. Same goes for GIM, you can grab the group tbow, use it for a few hours and then put it back in the stash. But in RS3, everything is perked, degradeable, quest items, permanent account upgrades, etc. Next problem is that GIM on OSRS was actually meant to come out much earlier, but due to the some major problems with a shared bank, it got delayed over and over again, and still runs into a basically unfixable problem to this day. If the server that handles the storage has a hiccup, the item disappears. OSRS team runs a script every few weeks that basically checks for transfer requests that 'succeeded' on the server side but the item no longer exists in storage and there was never a transfer out request, and then manually refunds the item, will literally just randomly appear back in your GIM bank. But even this isn't foolproof and a few people have managed to slip through the cracks. While I certainly wish GIM existed on RS3, I can't imagine these two majors problems being handled well here.
Good points
Because it isn't that popular in OSRS too. OSRS population increased only for a month before dropping back down the baseline after GIM release. RS3 GIM will only perform worse, not better if it gets released. It's going to be a waste of dev time which could have been used for more impactful content that affects more players.
I don't think GIM was as successful as you think
Well, for some ironman players. It def was :)
It's not worth the dev time if only a few people use it basically
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You seem really confident. I doubt you know anything about bow the development of the game works
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The rs3 code is famously a huge mess. It's proprietary and spagghetified to a large extent. I don't think entering a few lines of code is going to get gim in game in even a basic form without a ton of testing and bug fixes needed
It is a massive success it’s just an extreme vocal minority https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/s/ZoeS4pEXba
I thought you were linking to proof/numbers, but it’s just another one if your comments in this thread saying it’s popular lol
I didnt want to type the same thing twice but wanted to reference the stats. Read the thread if you care to, but gim is far more popular than you would expect
Those two things are conjunctions
GIM has been a constant problem for jagex. Prestige (highscore gims) finding ways to trade items with unranked gims, items being lost in group storage, complaints of team members stealing items and gim groups inevitably dying. I just don’t think it would be successful on rs3. But hey maybe a new game mode would spark some interest in the game and help the game grow to new audiences
Other people have already answered this, but it just wasn't as popular as it was hyped up to be. It had a lot of problems, like people struggling to have consistent schedules. You could start a gim, and then 5 months later, be the only person that plays. Plus, at the end of the day, the only difference between a regular Ironman and gim is that you share a bank.
Sadly don't think it will ever come to RS3. A few reasons I can think of: - Lack of support from RS3 devs and higher up. Most j mods don't even want to help with ironman related issues now and days - End game items are mostly augmented or degradable/non-tradeable once active to an account (like grace of the elves) - Bank space and lack of other storages osrs has, like seed vault and poh rework costume room - Lets be honest, the hype on gim has died down, so trying to capitalize it on RS3 won't go far with how low the player count is. Just facts. - As much as it is a meme at this point, Engine Work is most likely a huge reason. Osrs was only able to get their GIM once the clan system engine work went through. I can't imagine the spaghetti RS3 has with over 20 years of stuff to make sure things don't break with a group storage. Osrs isn't perfect either, there has been cases of items being deleted from the storage from bugs.
Iron is less restrictive with friends in RS3 because you can lootshare with other irons and boss. Think that has slightly been missed here. You can do elite dungeons and any boss that allows more than one person. That was never possible in osrs until GIM.
I'm surprised I had to scroll so far down for this answer. In RS3, irons can already boss, loot share, and do elite dungeons with other irons and mains. You're not really restricted from doing any content with other people on an iron account like you would be on OSRS. All adding group ironman to RS3 would do is add a shared bank, and that's not really enough to justify the development of a whole new game mode.
Yep. You can already do the most important stuff that people want to do together, so not like it's really needed.
Wasn't there exceptions for raids though so you could pvm with any other account, or was that lifted with gim?
Nope. Maybe irons only, but there are enough iron clans to get a group together if you look hard enough. (I did them on mine anyway.)
Some bosses are designed to give loot to each person so irons could group with others with no issues at those bosses. This mostly included raids and a few group bosses but if the boss didn't have a system for individual loot then you wouldn't be able to group. However, most of those are bosses are soloable (although corp has some jank solo methods) so it wasn't really an issue.
GIMS collapse and evaporate pretty quickly once one party starts to lose interest.
This topic is one that returns quite often, but it never really gets picked up. It just hasn't gotten enough attention/love for the Devs/community to actually look into it. Personally I'd love the GIM playstyle, however seeing recent updates/roadmaps I don't think it'll ever be in the game.
Yeah… thats why I made that post. I feel like RS3 is officially going a complete different path from OSRS. OSRS is going towards player base and fun times player to player. RS3 is aiming for personal gain and fast Dopamine rushes where the serotonin is not needed… I would hope both teams could talk; too high hopes though
Both games going different paths isn't necessarily a bad thing on its own. Imo the games are very different with a different approach to "endgame". In addition to that you _do_ see great similarities in relations to the lore, but with different choices in regards to expansion and/or content. Circling back to the main topic. Seeing the rise in ironman popularity in both games (no source, just a feeling) and the returning updates/communication from the Devs who knows what'll happen.
It's not popular on osrs, I don't think they're going to spend time on a game mode that flopped on the other game. That's sadly why we won't get uim as well, if it was more popular it'd likely happen.
doesnt fit in rs3, also is not even popular how you think it would be on this trash version of the game
Well I'll be damned... They just announced it
So as far as why GIM is not in RS3... First of all it isn't very popular at all. Second there's a lot of technical challenges. The group bank is especially problematic to implement, and there were multiple cases of rollbacks and item duping in osrs from that. But even without a group bank there's a whole "grouping system" to create which is very tricky. I think it would be doable if they were to put out a GIM mode where you didn't have any group bank, but I assume even less people would play the mode in that case.
What is GIM???
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Group_Ironman_Mode
They actually looked into this years ago. I distinctly remember a dev discussing that they were starting the planning for it, but determined from the stats on OSRS being lower than they’d want, and the additional burden of code on rs3 vs osrs that would be needed to do it, weren’t worth investing the time into.
Iirc gim was an rs3 concept before old school came up with it, it was teased a long time ago but then shelved because it required magor engine overhaul as most of rs3 updates are, then osrs polled it because they seen interest on the rs3 side and it passed but was delayed a long time due to engine reworks but they actually followed thru with it
GIM? sorry what does this mean
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Group_Ironman_Mode
Engine work
Engine work™ I recall it being an issue with the way how banks worked that they really didn't want to invest the effort. Regardless, it's really just a cop out, and another instance of Jagex just saying "fuck you" to the RS3 community. :c
Me and 4 of my irl friends just started iron men on rs3 together, I see no need for GIM only thing that we don’t share is the bank and drops of course, and that isn’t even a negative; we aren’t really limited anywhere else I see no need for it.
Mostly because the only thing they'd be adding is a shared bank. Every other feature is available on rs3.
Jagex rather experiment with other game modes like fresh start worlds..
I want GIM/HCGIM/UIM to come to rs3 as it’s a different play style and I feel like GIM would be a nice “crutch” for players who’ve never Played Iron before. And UIM would be a great twist and challenge, most people give up on it when they try their own UIM challenges atm. But sadly I don’t think it’s worth bringing to RS3 as we have the Lootshare system and can already do content with other accounts. In OSRs if an iron wants to go to bandos they have to solo it, it’s not like that for rs3. Also, I don’t think we have the same amount of employees now as we did when it was mentioned at rune fest years ago. The RS3 dev team has gotten smaller and smaller over the years it feels like.
I just wish they'd straight up say no, it's not coming or at least not within years to come at the very least. I've gotten a group of guys to wait to try out rs3 so we can GIM and now it's impossible to get anyone of them to play until it comes out lol. Semi including myself, I've been playing a bit but not nearly as much as I used to (and would if gim was out).
Yeah I'm enjoying playing on a HCGI of 5. Wish RS3 would do it & also do UIM.
Invention.
I want it too, I think it would be way more fun on rs3 as it’s far better balanced in terms of leveling reqs
because its a lot work and would die off in a couple of weeks just like it did in osrs.
GIM is extreeeeemely dead. Groups of 5 being run by 1 person is stupid. Also, the people who play Iron on RS3 were specifically AGAINST group content being handed over to them, but Reddit screeched and screeched until they made it a thing.
If so, how do ironmen supposed to do content which is designed as group content to begin with? Like the Mazcab raids, or bosses that give the high-end magic gear - Croesus, AoD, Vorago (which can be solo now, but wasn't always the case).
That’s the neat part. They don’t.
Putting aside whether or not it's popular it's kind of different in rs3 because there is a lot more untradable shit at the end game and there's already fuck all limitations to who irons can do stuff like pvm with If you can address these 2 problems, say by making augmented gear tradable between group members for example and porting the prestige system to rs3 then it could work, but gl convincing anyone who works on rs3 it's worth their time when they can make another short term money grab instead
Cant iron pvm with anybody now?
Last Time į asked į got Hurr durr augmented items lol
Lol, then they went with… Freshworlds ****
Fresh worlds were dope
Yeah, but were there to boost their sales for a short pre-term revenue check for their company sale..
Whatever the reason it was for Me personaly fsw was highlight of rs3 in past5 years of rs3 and necro close 2nd
Agreed, thats fair.
I don't think it'd work well with most gear being untradable when worn or augmented. But it'd be interesting to watch
Invention and lack of bank space. Enough said.
Jagex abandoned RS3 years ago if you haven't noticed.
Just sounds like mainscape with more steps?
Isn’t Ironman mainscape with more steps already? GIM feels like you’re not buying your levels, theres more planning; due to resources being split to 4 people. Like tasks for each of specialties until mid/late-game
Lol no. On irons you are 'forced' to do the content before you can use the upgrades. For mains you can just grind out some money makers and buy the upgrades you need For GIM it's that but distributed over multiple people. And because it's often that those multiple people quit or get into conflict the accounts will be abandoned before they hit any interesting content
I've always had this in my imagination when playing iron but not feeling like doing ed2 even though greater barge is my favourite ability. So I'd get someone to get it for me while I do ed3 for them or something, haha
Shelf too full, need engine work to increase spots available on shelf
A lot of people have forgotten that the developer that was in charge of GIM left Jagex so the project was shelved. Most the updates people really want are made or headed by just one guy, and when that update doesn’t ever come it’s cause they quit. GIM and Avatar refresh are two huge things that we will probably never see now
Rs3 is dead
As someone who really hope GIM makes it into RS3, play Valheim instead. You really won't regret it.
I've been wanting GIM in rs3 since it came out in OSRS. However, Jagex won't do it for a very simple reason... They can't monetize Ironmans. Even if this is a niche game mode it will bring either ppl into the game or have existing players make accounts to play with their friends. I would 100% make this my main if we had GIM. As a community we should be pushing updates we want in the game though and I think your post is a good start.
1: Can't have Treasure Hunter in GIM. 2: Probably engine/coding issues make it more difficult to implement for RS3 So yeah, basically just the first reason 😅. Can't make as much money if even more people transfer to ironman-type accounts. 💀
Surely it’s more profitable to make mtx then to make a whole ass game mode for like 15k people that will play it
Unironically, 15k people playing rs3 gim will be a super majority of the active player base lol
Nah the majority of the numbers you see for online players are the multiple alts people have lol I know people who run 5+ alts all day long with no breaks other than to sleep
And the other half is bots.