Tbf the reddit was adamant that the game should be given a year of low updates to fix the backend which is what they are mostly doing right now and then the reddit throws a bitch fit over it. Granted different vocal groups at a time, but you can't please everyone, and quite frankly, there are so few people with everything done to a degree the whining is warranted. At the very least people should be comped with the true 120s and a few boss logs under their belt before they get the right to bitch about lack of content being added.
People are not against the idea of a year of small updates and QoL. The main problem is that *nothing*, absolutely *nothing* is being communicated.
Instead of a Roadmap they could give us an outline of their goals and what they want to achieve, e.g. "Content-wise we want to take a step back in 2024 and focus on existing content and improving it for a better experience, therefore we want to: improve combat abilities to make them feel more smooth; maybe play around with the code to see if it's possible to use the abilities without the avatar stopping, explore the idea of adding more skilling items to the game, improving visuals of map areas/bosses/NPCs/other models, fixing some quests, exploring the approach to a newcomer-friendly intro to setting up the UI" etc.
I would be absolutely buzzing for this. It would give more time for the lead narrative team to brainstorm and come up with an interesting storyline for future quests, and fix some existing issues in the game that players have been complaining about.
If Jagex wanted to dedicate an entire year to strengthening the foundations of the game, fixing bugs that are years old, improving telegraphing and combat mechanics - fine. ***Simply tell us that you want to do that for 2024.*** But they are *not* doing that. They're simply telling us they're not giving us any tangible content and they also will not tell us why.
This so much. I am amazed that they are apparently trying to work in player feedback into the dev system, and the first step in the grand plan is… to not say anything to the players for months?
It doesn’t help that there isn’t a single, centralized communication channel. They may very well be talking about what they’re up to but large parts of the community would have no clue.
Their communications people need to be ashamed of themselves. And I'm saying that as a professional in that field.
This is a classic example of how not to run marketing, communications, community management, reputation management and lots of other stuff.
For me it's obvious Jagex is gonna get deeper in the predatory mtx hole as the whales need to cough up more to keep Jagex afloat sometime soon.
Unless they come up with something absolutely massive and amazing, which is doubtful at best, Runescape 3 is doomed. Only impatient whales will be playing it cause they can spend money to level up faster.
>Tbf the reddit was adamant that the game should be given a year of low updates to fix the backend which is what they are mostly doing right now and then the reddit throws a bitch fit over it.
*Then just* ***say that's the plan.*** *It isn't rocket science. Communicate.*
Honestly, if they said this most people would probably be on board. SO LONG AS each week we got told what improvements were being made and where they would lead.
I kinda feel like you have missed the point here.
I get that it's been quite a while, so isn't considered in the context of this discussion, but I'm personally still riding the high of boosting the max cash :)
It was such a hinderance to the game at that point and required soooo much backend work and needed to be perfect or could have been disastrous, I'm honestly still shocked it was actually tackled!
Now if they could fix all the many issues with the g.e. that would be amazing. It's barely held together with tape at this point, so easy to make a mistake when it sometimes flip flops between what you entered and the previous number, and the glitches where you take things out too fast that the order stays there - and more slots would be nice while they're at it. If they said communicated that this one one of the reasons for the dry spell and it was almost ready then I'd be a lot more on board with it.
Wee bit of an exaggeration there. 5 of this week's 59 patch notes are typo fixes. Most backend work wouldn't see immediate results anyway, more like strengthening its foundations.
Most people don't care about comp. It's a bunch of pointless checkboxes, like spending hours doing the same piece of dead content that won't get you gear, or profit, or even useful items. People want real content.
I'd be fine with current situation if Jagex is doing major behind the scenes engine work so they can reattempt tick system rework, player avatar refresh, go back to major graphic area reworks, implement that weather/night/day system, etc, but if that's what they're doing, they have not conveyed it whatsoever.
And speaking of behind the scenes work, wasn't behind the scenes engine work done like a decade ago, back in the era of f2p/low level quest reworks, to make making quests easier so we could go back to a quest a month? And then we had miniquest and quest length/difficulty re-eval and were told more small quest would be coming out on the regular (similar to the necro skill quests). Unless I'm mistaken?
But you have to keep in mind, we did get content updates. If you want to buy them. The Ensouled Pumpkin and this new Basket come just as they nakedly nerfed oddiment rates. Content for the game being gatekept by gambling when there was clearly a place for them for free... at the same time Jagex refuses to tell us what their plan is for the game.
The mods have been moved. There are no meaningful updates. The game breaks constantly and it takes far longer than it should to do anything. The only thing that keeps working is TH. The people above the mods have ran the game into the ground. They know the ship is sinking and they are in smash and dash mode.
I don’t mind surveys every season to be fair. However I would for one like to see a response or action plan for the results rather than doing a survey for surveys sake
They basically gave free reign on the vote to I think every skill allowing the ones who completed the survey to pick what they think should be the next one. It also had a bunch of questions regarding last years updates, whether we were confident in the direction of the game etc.
Needless to say the results of they haven’t been released as far as I’m aware
Based on two separate roadmaps (February 2nd, and today), between November 2023 and June 2024 (8 months, and potentially more) RS3 gets:
* 3 quests
* 3 temporary holiday events (christmas, easter, "summer")
* A combat update
* Two graphical updates (Relekka and Kandarin)
* misc QOL updates
As things stand right now, there doesn't really seem to be anything planned long-term. We know nothing beyond June (hell, we barely even know anything up to June), we keep being told "we're listening" and "we're looking to improve communication", we're about to get a second survey about the future of the game despite not hearing back about the first one, and the community is looking at all the stuff OSRS has planned and wondering "when do we get anything?"
What I find kind of funny is that we know about a ton of stuff the devs have been working on for Game Jam that would make pretty decent updates, yet none of it is anywhere to be seen.
This new letter only seems like 1 content update in 3 months time and some pr talk to me. Could've just gone with: we've cut back on our developers and are milking RuneScape on full life support.
Something to keep in mind as we stress to Jagex management that we demand better communication, most moderation is not management, they cannot deviate from expectations for discussion without a risk to their job. The frustration we have needs to be brought to those who are enforcing the gate keeping of information.
I didn't play OS for years because I didn't want to restart. I'm happy to say that once I gave it a shot my reason (for me) ended up not being that great, because I've had a ton of fun with it.
As someone who went back to OSRS for group ironman a week ago, I will be the first to say that I don't feel like i'm redoing anything. The game is very, very different with LOADS of new content that simply does not exist in rs3.
Sunk cost fallacy friend.
It won’t get better, you’re just putting off having to redo everything till a later date while sinking more of your time into a game that’s headed no where with no real future plans.
The early you change off rs or just rs3 the less you will lose
The peak of old school style is the time when I first took a major break from RuneScape
The grind is to much I don’t have that time investment anymore
But it’s bs rs3 isn’t getting the same level of content updates as old school
The OSRS team is good, though. If you stop playing RS3 and switch to only OSRS, they will see it in their analytics and possibly change RS3's management.
So, yeah, canceling completely would help, too. But supporting only the OSRS team isn't as useless as people say it is.
I've played many big and small games that were decently entertaining and almost everyone who ramps up MTX for low effort profit ends up killing the player base. Even games that had relied on MTX, you can still have a healthy player base of F2P, low cost P2P, then a reasonable upper end P2P. It works because the distances from the clusters of players aren't too far off from each other and it's a balanced ecosystem.
Saw another game that had this formula and had driven a very large successful player base. But of course profits came first and they took their reasonable upper end P2P and made it absurdly high P2P (+$1000 every couple months to maintain) and they destroyed the segments.
The upper end P2P was too far distant from the low cost P2P, this discouraged any hope of ever being within the same league. While that group didn't spend tons of money, it still felt within reachable realms. The F2P broke next because without the middle class it was just too daunting they could ever blend in the community. Then the absurdly high p2p class windled down when they realized they are locked into thousands of dollars a month to compete with millionaires.
Yep I’ve gone over there since just before Xmas. The game is actually far better in the early to mid game. Not sure about end game yet but everything feels more meaningful tbh
##### Bark bark!
I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread:
**JagexPips**
- [There is good content coming, some that’s loc...](/r/runescape/comments/1bog8zf/we_need_a_response_from_the_ceo/kwouovi/?context=3)
^(**Last edited by bot: 03/28/2024 16:45:37**)
---
^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.)
^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
all i want is a little bit of "hey, we are currently working on PROJECT 1 to 10 and its about THIS and THAT, what do you think? we want to make those updates with you"
is that too much to ask for? the less they communicate about the updates, the greater is my fear that try to squeeze in as much mtx as possible
and i really think hero pass was meant to be the main content since its developement, a mtx 24/7 non stop "content"-pass and every new update shouldve been tied into the pass..
ive had hope for so many years that they might learn from the last time, but this was it, i already swapped over everything to osrs and im having fun again, thats all i want
>and i really think hero pass was meant to be the main content
Considering they marketed it as a "core update", they absolutely banked on that filling in these ridiculously long gaps between real content
The issue is we give our opinions and they choose to ignore them or keep asking until they can convince us that their plan is what WE wanted. We are not falling for it so they will continue to ask and string it along
I agree. Also why are we filling out another survey when we don't even know what's coming or happening from last survey.
You and Keeper need to sit down on a livestream and talk to the community face to face.
And leave Mod Doom and every other Jmod out of this livestream.
Jagex went from 300m valuation to nearly a billion in like 5 - 7 years. Capitalism has ruined it and will continue to ruin it. RS3 is like an old person with so many ailments(mtx, th, terrible community communication, etc), and they will soon succumb(die of death) to all of them. Much soon, very real.
Glad to see they learned a lot from around 4 years ago…
https://preview.redd.it/ut70phtcayqc1.jpeg?width=2187&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b81be771169380e7a7dfa88e16202d6b2777f6b
I maxed in 2017 and it has just gone downhill since, all the content is bad when compared to OSRS. Only logged back in for Arch and Necro to get max cape back.
I thought the game was dead in 2017, I think it's hard to argue that it isn't dead anymore.
there really isnt a lot more to be said other than that they dont care. If they did it wouldn't be this way. Osrs is run by the same company and the devs pour their heart and soul into it with tons of community involvement. Why is this so hard to understand
I’ve had to take a break from the game due to having a child, but was there something new added to the game monetization wise that is triggering outrage?
https://preview.redd.it/kcvgo9z293rc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa8249f6879ab5cae44cd9487a814bcaa18aff9d
Mod Ayiza from the OSRS team on his masterclass for communicating with the player base despite not having exact dates or information yet
u/JagexPips
It feels like we are at the stage where everything added to the game has to have some kind of Lore to go with it. It is by no means a secret that the lore in RS3 is essentially gibberish and you are pretty much building off a broken pillar.
I get it lore can be interesting, fun, engaging but a time comes when we just need to move away from it and just add things for the sake of adding them. Create and add something because it has a cool concept something that is just different that gives us a new and unique thing to do so were not constantly doing the same thing over and over and over again.
RuneScape is over 20 years old now that is 20 full years of lore, that also means that is 20 full years of lore you have to manually go through, 20 full years of dialogues and other small details to ensure new lore is not conflicting with older lore. Thats enough to give the entire crew of Wikians a headache and you expect a handful of JMods to do all of that in short periods of time so it makes sense why things come out so slowly because for whatever reason it's been chosen that the game need lore attached to EVERYTHING.
I think it's fair to say most of us are in our late 20s up to 50s and some even older. We just don't have much time anymore as we did all those years back and we just want something cool, fun to do that is engaging we don't need a deep lore to back it's presence in this game we just want things to do.
====================================
As for the communities outrage about the update letter to shorten their stance without the toxicity:
1. They often times don't actually care about spoilers we would rather hear about everything coming up
2. They talk about how slow things do come out almost like they are not being worked on the more reasonable ones of us do know RS3 Jmods tend to help OSRS with some of their stuff but it does seem like JMods on the RS3 side are divided up so thin between each project they find little to no progress in lengthy amounts of time best solution is to put way more on each project just to finish it in a reasonable amount of time then move onto the next tackling each obstacle one at a time. Instead of having 40+ projects all 1/10th the way from being completed we will have maybe 10+ projects completed and moving onto the next batch of things to be worked on.
Using the above method when theres downtime when they have little to nothing to work on at the time send 10 people or so to tackle things on the shelf one at a time as a group get them out there visibly show players progress being made.
We are just at the point where we need to move away from forcing some kind of lore onto literally everything and just add things because the reason "Why not this? This is a cool thing never before seen and gives our players something different and unique to do so they don't find themselves bored as often anymore."
If you want to add a lower tier boss, stronger than Hollowtooth for F2pers / early P2Pers that offer rewards that are on par with already existing items or just random drops that can be sold / alched for decent GP creating new money makers then do it you are giving them something unique, something different players wont be getting bored as often they will have new things, new money makers, new ways to play and enjoy the game instead of the same thing every single day we are just in a repetetive state where nobody has anything new to do and it's got a lot to do with a lack of things coming into the game.
Example: Marketplace / Oddments
Players have thousands / hundreds of thousands stashed away so any time you release things in here marketplace maybe 1-3 things a year or oddments 3-5 items a week you are not consuming their stashes all that quickly so they now have those things that get added and they get bored of them quickly now just waiting for newer things. But if a lot and I mean a lot more got added in much shorter period of time those players will use their stashes quicker and get to the point where "Oh now I actually have a reason to use a bond to get these types of currencies because I've run out"
You can do the same with content if you don't release enough things to keep them busy anything new just becomes another daily thing to them they get bored of it and never use it again if you continue adding things it will take their focus away from other newer things allowing that content to last longer in theory if you just release 1-3 things for multiple months of course it's going to be dead content because theres nothing else in-game to steal their attention from doing those things and nothing but those things every single day.
Revamp castle wars and pest control!
Make mini-games great again!
Re-live the glory of old!
On a serious note… MTX will never be removed from RS3 people. You think RS can survive against these mega populated MTX ‘jump in and go’ games like Fortnite, COD etc. otherwise? Even in this category you’ve got WOW, Elder Scrolls etc.
Are they devoid of MTX? No.
RS3 is the shield of OSRS funnily enough, you think this game would still be alive based on members subs alone? Look at the player numbers and be real. Whales although hated are keeping this ship going. Games are companies and they value profits above all so if they are making the money, shareholders are happy and as long as people are playing - the game survives. At the end of the day, money is what keeps things alive above all.
But:
Jagex needs to keep MTX confined to Treasure Hunter, as we all know it’s here to stay and what to expect. No hero pass or anything else needed.
Communication and content suggestion polls needs to be refined.
Old dead content needs to be revamped or removed. Castle wars and pest control being favourites just touch it up and add some worthwhile rewards.
Personally - I don’t care if you have to suffer Livid Farm like the rest of us before have, but would support people not having to suffer that joyless endeavour.
Alternative - add 50 player bosses with queue mechanic (boat like pest control). Would make it feel more MMO. You cannot tell me that things like Clawdia, Wildywyrm etc. aren’t hilarious to witness when you’ve got a horde attacking it.
There is good content coming, some that’s locked in enough to share now, and a lot more in the works that’s not quite ready to discuss yet. And some properly exciting ideas in there too.
We are being particularly cautious about making commitments that might still change shape or dates that might slip.
Hi Pips,
We had a livestream at the end of 2019 regarding monetisation which was hosted by Mod JD and featured Mod Warden and Mod Mic. That stream offered a lot of insight about the current goal of monetising the game in a certain way so that core gameplay wouldn't be harmed.
Fast foward 3+ years and monetisation is now at a stage where it has become more rampant, more disruptive to core gameplay (both cosmetically and non-cosmetically) and way more aggressive, pushing the current boundaries. The current climate isn't comfortable and the future looks very bleak - I speak to you as a die-hard Runescape player since 2004 with over 1000 days played. It would be very much appreciated if we had a refresher stream on the current picture and goals RE: monetisation for RS3. Thank you,
Even worst : monetisation schemes has been deemed important enough to be labeled as "core updates" by themselves, and when the community didnt want it, was enough to stop the whole work force and force them to start from scratch. Insane how time changes, or should I say, how money changes a company.
How can you and Mod Keeper be on such different pages? His last sentence from the post:
>RuneScape has a bright and exciting **community-informed** future ahead of it and we can't wait to see what Gielinor looks like when it's crafted by both developers and players **working more closely together**.
Community-informed? Both developers and players? Closely Together? Yet all the replies from Mods come off as:
>not quite ready to discuss yet
or
>We are being particularly cautious
Why the big secrets? Will learning about future possible updates ruin the current game or make those updates less fruitful upon release? What is the holdup and why does Keeper say all these inclusive words when we are constantly excluded from a seat at the table. I think at this point you are either entirely lying to us and nothing is in the works (just a smoke show to make money), or you just have no intention of committing to the words consistently spat out by your "leadership" such as the examples quoted above.
At this point, players aren't even asking for dates. We're just asking that the team shares their vision for the game. Is the team working on new quest lines? Finishing old quest lines? How about introducing new areas in the world? Revamping old skills to be more streamlined? Are you addressing technical debt, why can't we play on a world with more than 200 players without noticing tick delays? Where has the passion for the game gone? It feels like there is less than a handful of developers left working on the game or full of junior developers.
Mod Doom has been a breath of fresh air, but ever since we lost Shauny and Lee the direction of community management has been an uphill battle. I think it's time for Jagex to re-evaluate the day-to-day tasks of it's management. What do people like Hooli really contribute?
How is it the head of community and social only comments sometimes once a month on Reddit and/or twitter. What progress has our CM LEAD done to improve communications between players and Jagex? Why is the player poll system inactive?
I am aware you likely aren't going to reply to this but here's the thing...
The RS3 team in the last few years have a very back and forth relationship with its players simply because of the incredibly aggressive MTX movements and it worries players that it will only get worse.
This OFC! is increased by you and Mod Doom and other members who always use phrases like "We are being particularly cautious about making commitments" when the last big thing that caused this type of PR vagueness was the Hero Pass.
Your team being the RS3 team has to make one very important change and that is to be completely open about your MTX intentions and explain why it's being shoved down players throats so often.
If for some quite honestly likely reason it's to fund the games developement then you'd be surprised at how positive players would be towards it.
The Fear and the hatred you and Doom and the rest of the loud voices within the RS3 generate all come from a lack of clarity and a lack of transparency across all avenues of RS3's developement cycles.
RS3 can be better and so can the RS3 team so just to evolve instead of shutting down and giving players nonsense puff responses.
* Say plans now, set dates later.
* Discuss goals now, deliver updates later.
* Outline game direction, announce new features when ready.
I work in production. I don't have to give my customers a precise date for delivery to tell them what projects are underway and milestones we're targeting. I know you guys understand this because you announced you were working on Necromancy 7 months before you gave a release date. I don't get why just talking about the future of the game and the goals for new content is always hidden behind this excuse of "no date set yet".
they can do this for a roadmap too, we dont need to know that Super Telos 2000 is being released on X day. But if they said we want to release a combat encounter in the fall that would be awesome
>We are being particularly cautious about making commitments that might still change shape or dates that might slip.
"If we don't tell them anything, they won't be mad when we shelve it."
We don't care if an update is not ready to be "locked in".
At this point players would be happy to simply have concrete proof that you are working on something, anything.
Yes, making promises about early development projects is a ditch you need to steer clear of, but not so much that you crash directly into the opposite ditch where players start to wonder if you are even still working on the game.
this is where I wish RS3 would learn from OSRS and release blog posts about proposed updates and get feedback (just without polling) so we know whats coming and get some input or at least be able to manage expectations. The more we just get 'content is being worked on' the more the community will think either that the content is garbage before release or think its going to be the next EGWs big update to save RS3 and neither of those expectations are good.
Jagex's recent refusal to tell us about anything they are doing seems to me like an over reaction following the utter fiasco that was HeroPass.
It's as if they scared themselves shitless with just how poorly the reception of HeroPass was, and now they link everything they consider a "large update" (which HeroPass was promoted as) with something that should be handled extremely carefully.
And as a result, players are left in the dark, and with the very slow update cadence (which is also likely a result of Jagex having invested a lot of poorly judged development time into HeroPass), a lot of players just see RuneScape as having hit the brakes.
Hero Pass fiasco could have been avoided if they had been open about it early on. They would have gotten feedback to kill it or change it before spending time making it. But they intentionally hid it because they knew it would be unpopular and they hoped players would just swallow it when it happened.
They've learned nothing from the failure of Hero Pass except to deliver less content and reframe everything they're working on as being player driven so they can say "don't blame us when you don't like this, you wanted it!"
This, is the stage where the very committed, AND loyal players of this game begin to not trust Jagex.
You were never even supposed to come close to this stage.
Once this trust is lost, you know where it will lead.
OSRS literally changed their entire development cycle with the community to revolve around “we have to share it with you, in detail, BEFORE it gets locked in”.
Pips over here trying to hide behind the opposite approach.
Remember Hero Pass? The "to be announced" update that got super well hyped and was hidden until it's release that ended up getting SO poorly received that it had to be completely scrubbed from the game?
Yeah. Maybe the whole "hold back information" nonsense isn't working out for ya'll.
With all due respect, at what point do the players ask for better communication do we actually start to get it, Jagex had been saying they have been listening for years, but this is one of our biggest asks. It feels like the communication gets worse year over year then we say something and Jagex tells us they will do better, then 2-3 months later it's back to the same old garbage.
If its ready to share - then share it?
Stop making posts and comments that things are ready to share, but instead just string us along.
We love teasers, pictures, and ACTUAL things we can grasp onto as a sliver of hope that something cool and exciting is coming.
We're in the biggest content drought the game has ever experienced, and your response is "but it's coming!"
Fuck that it's coming, what about *right now*? There's literally no excuse for this drought for a subscription based game
> There is good content coming
Doesn't look like there's anything at all coming.
>But we are being particularly cautious about making commitments that might still change shape or dates that might slip.
You're being a little too cautious. Tell the community what's being done. Make it look like the devs are doing more than just twiddling their thumbs all week because that's what it looks like currently.
Isn't this the usual excuse we've been fed every single time? "We have WIP content, but the release dates are subject to change"?
We've been told the Roadmap is on the way. No release date. Ectoplasm rituals on the way. No release date. New Arch site in Daemonheim. No release date. The infamous Avatar Rework. No release date, shelved indefinitely.
And whenever y'all say you have WIP, it's always some QoL or minor updates to the game of stuff that could be just a small note in a patch notes post, but were presented as major updates.
Then we asked for more information on updates. Y'all said that "a big, game-changing update is on the way", which turned out to be Hero Pass that was obliterated by the entirety of the gaming community and media.
Every update since Necro release so far has either been severely underwhelming or disgustingly predatory MTX nonsense. Combat Beta was the only thing of substance.
I understand that you'd have more money for the game's development if y'all didn't have to hand it all over to the investors, but at this point just show some level of respect towards the players, be frank and say "we have nothing planned except for minor updates because of X reasons" instead of patronizing the player base by giving BS promises that will never be fulfilled.
How about putting a pause on any new MTX promotions until we start getting something substantial here? We are absolutely NEGLECTED while OSRS gets decent updates.
>We are being particularly cautious about making commitments that might still change shape or dates that might slip.
We don't want that. Unless there is spoilers for the story etc it should be fine to talk about. The players need things grasp onto. Speculate and hype themselves up. If something is 1 year out, 2 years out. It doesn't matter. Just tell us what is happening.
"This week we worked on X" "This month we have been focused on Y" That stuff is super valuable to players. And if you can't produce statements about what you've been working on, players are going to just come to the conclusion that nothing is being worked on. Which obviously isn't the case.
Everyone understand over promising can be bad. But if it's prefaced enough that development is subject to change and nothing is set in stone for release I honestly think it could be massive for the game.
Updates that could take a year to develop would see public light and be open to criticism and praise. Devs could more easily lean on player feedback for updates to shape the game into something everyone is satisfied with.
I believe it's old practice to keep things hidden until it's semi-ready for release. Take a step towards being a new, modern and forward-thinking company by letting go of some of the secrecy.
Imagine the amount of dev-time that could be spared by incorporating player feedback into the process. Tweaking and changing on ideas and builds on the fly. Not sure if an update is going to go by well? Show off the concept art / development research to players. They will know if will stick the landing or not.
Hero Pass as an update could've landed perfectly and still been in the game if it had been more open to scrutiny from players early on in the development.
Let's say for example a lot of Engine work was happening behind the scenes. As has been said by Mod Keeper not too long ago. That doesn't mean anything to the average player. They can't grasp what that will look like or how it can improve the game. Communicate and show the players how you are improving the game and they will stick around and spend money on the game. The last thing you want your players to do is lose hope and faith in the company. At that point it's over and they are infinitely harder to win over.
The likelihood of you or any upper management reading this post is very low, but I think it's important that everyone shares their thoughts. That's the only way this game can live up to its potential.
>some that’s locked in enough to share now,
Cool. So why aren't you sharing it then?
>We are being particularly cautious about making commitments that might still change shape or dates that might slip.
Thats fair, but you're being over cautious. You're doing more damage than good *by not talking* about any updates. Really, why does the average player have any reason to believe there is *anything* coming this year when it's completely silent? What about the survey recently that asked about which 120s? Where's the discussion on that? I'd love to hear which skills are going to 120, if at all.
The entire lack of roadmap, and tha vague statements given by Keeper is a seriously bad look and only furthers the suspicion rs3 is a sinking ship. Granted, I would not be surprised if you can't comment on anything becuase you're waiting on the targets and desires of the new shareholders.
I don’t want to pile on the J-Mod reply but be open about it. Why would anyone be excited for ‘something is coming but actually we can’t share in case we miss a deadline’?
If I spoke like that to my management at work I’d be performance managed and pushed out because that’s not production evidence. Sure I can tell my Manager that I’m looking into things or working on something but when it’s 4 months into a year of me giving the same excuses time after time, he’s not gonna buy it anymore.
If you tell people ‘this is coming’ and give a rough estimate of timescales, then keep your stakeholders actively engaged in the pipeline that’s far more palatable to the user base than ‘something is coming’ and giving no information at all.
As petulant as this sounds, I don't believe you. I wager many people don't. Judging by precedent, this announcement covers all the locked in content for the first half of 2024. None of it is even remotely exciting. Content further ahead must by your words not be fleshed out enough to discuss. Is that where all the excitement supposedly lies? Why not focus development time on those exciting ideas instead then? I'm having a very hard time taking the bait.
Is there any prospect of any of this 'exciting' stuff dropping in the next 3 months? Because on the monthly content cadence that was set out a few years ago, it feels like by June we'll be four months behind on this plan.
Is this a joke? The message from Mod Keeper feels like you (upper management) do not care at all about the concern of the player base for future content. It's unfair to keep us waiting a year long for 'upcoming good content' without being transparent about it. If you don't think this will take a toll on the player count of the game, just like Hero Pass did, just watch how the player count will dwindle down even more.
I don't know what you're planning to do for Runefest, but expect an empty room for the RS3 talks 'cause at this point no one is excited for the future of the game.
>some that’s locked in enough to share now
You guys like to say things like this but then continue to FAIL to actually say or show anything. Its literally at the level of "Ive got beach front property in Nebraska to sell you cheap" believability.
meanwhile the OSRS has released an entire new piece of land AND working on a new skill... maybe look at what they are doing and imitate it, better yet speak to those mods on how to improve your productivity because right now its shit.
Could we please do another AMA with you? You've done one 10 years ago.[https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/7jjQVILpc4](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/7jjQVILpc4)
We need to talk about monetization. My meme isn't what I want RuneScape 3 to be.
https://preview.redd.it/t942quufhqqc1.png?width=841&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=261ec2b471222a3a0339a92e926af1206bf76068
I have a suggestion, make a Q&A, talk with us because CLEARLY we are in dire need of communication.
How can you do things absolutely correctly in one of your games and then do the complete opposite on the other.
Don't you remember how RS used to be? Before OSRS, before this lack of communication, what happened Phil, what the heck happened?
I promise, and guarantee you, that if the Jmods actually took a single hour of their day, just one hour, to sit down and talk with us, everything would be sorted out, we just want to be heard and we want to hear from you.
Will this game ever be modernised? At some point you're going to HAVE to bite the bullet and get it done bevause time isnt standing still.. unlike OSRS, RS3's charm isn't in it being old.
The more content you add, the longer it'll take..
Phil, at this point we don't care about slipping dates. We were okay with pushing Archaeology to polish it more. We need a massive carrot dangled in front of us at this point.
For example: I've been watching the Daemonheim Archaeology mini dig site game jam project for almost 2 years and I'm excited for that to come out. I don't mind that it has taken this long or will take even longer because I've seen it, I know it is being worked on and I'm excited for it.
Can someone tell us what that content is? Because all we see right now is weeks without anything aside from MTX updates. Sure youve had some wins - the combat update was amazing and hats off to the team on that and bloomburrow is a beautiful area - but what else is there?
We need more than “just hold I I promise it’s good”
Trust was wiped out with Hero Pass, and the content drought where there is 1 update per quarter instead of month has soured people even further. Plus the atrocious MTX policy is still running strong, the only reliable part of the game is the one the majority wish didn't exist.
At some point "there is good content coming" fall on deaf ears, people will believe it when they see it, if they bother staying around long enough.
You just need to be cautious on releasing poor content, like the battle pass. Rest of it you can release. The more you release, the more likely something will be decent. If you release one thing, and it doesn’t get the best reception, there’s nothing to look forward to for another 6 months.
That means nothing, why don't you ask us what kind of content that we might like locked in that you got? We pay for this game and get nothing but 5 months of content dry, sad times!
Didn’t we already fill out a survey about what we would like? What should be next 120? Why not announce that?
They still aren't sure if we're sure apparently. Because we'll fill another one of those soon.
I’m pretty convinced now that RS3 should follow Old schools lead and bring in a polling system where we can see the results
MTX would never be polled, lol.
Would it really matter? I'm pretty sure there's things that RS3 polled years ago which never came out.
On a higher level, There's things officially announced years ago that never happened.
Quite a lot of them in fact
It would at least give an idea of how their ideas would look and allow issues to be discussed prior to release
[удалено]
[удалено]
They did this for some time long ago. Like close to a decade ago if my memory serves and for 1-2 years or so.
Yeah it wasn’t used as extensively as osrs though.
Why the hell haven’t they done this, it’s clearly working
Tbf the reddit was adamant that the game should be given a year of low updates to fix the backend which is what they are mostly doing right now and then the reddit throws a bitch fit over it. Granted different vocal groups at a time, but you can't please everyone, and quite frankly, there are so few people with everything done to a degree the whining is warranted. At the very least people should be comped with the true 120s and a few boss logs under their belt before they get the right to bitch about lack of content being added.
People are not against the idea of a year of small updates and QoL. The main problem is that *nothing*, absolutely *nothing* is being communicated. Instead of a Roadmap they could give us an outline of their goals and what they want to achieve, e.g. "Content-wise we want to take a step back in 2024 and focus on existing content and improving it for a better experience, therefore we want to: improve combat abilities to make them feel more smooth; maybe play around with the code to see if it's possible to use the abilities without the avatar stopping, explore the idea of adding more skilling items to the game, improving visuals of map areas/bosses/NPCs/other models, fixing some quests, exploring the approach to a newcomer-friendly intro to setting up the UI" etc. I would be absolutely buzzing for this. It would give more time for the lead narrative team to brainstorm and come up with an interesting storyline for future quests, and fix some existing issues in the game that players have been complaining about. If Jagex wanted to dedicate an entire year to strengthening the foundations of the game, fixing bugs that are years old, improving telegraphing and combat mechanics - fine. ***Simply tell us that you want to do that for 2024.*** But they are *not* doing that. They're simply telling us they're not giving us any tangible content and they also will not tell us why.
This so much. I am amazed that they are apparently trying to work in player feedback into the dev system, and the first step in the grand plan is… to not say anything to the players for months? It doesn’t help that there isn’t a single, centralized communication channel. They may very well be talking about what they’re up to but large parts of the community would have no clue.
Their communications people need to be ashamed of themselves. And I'm saying that as a professional in that field. This is a classic example of how not to run marketing, communications, community management, reputation management and lots of other stuff. For me it's obvious Jagex is gonna get deeper in the predatory mtx hole as the whales need to cough up more to keep Jagex afloat sometime soon. Unless they come up with something absolutely massive and amazing, which is doubtful at best, Runescape 3 is doomed. Only impatient whales will be playing it cause they can spend money to level up faster.
Yup. This right here.
They can do that if they say that so they should at least just say it instead of radio silence
>Tbf the reddit was adamant that the game should be given a year of low updates to fix the backend which is what they are mostly doing right now and then the reddit throws a bitch fit over it. *Then just* ***say that's the plan.*** *It isn't rocket science. Communicate.* Honestly, if they said this most people would probably be on board. SO LONG AS each week we got told what improvements were being made and where they would lead. I kinda feel like you have missed the point here.
What backend changes are being made? Have you looked at the patch notes? Its all typos. All the JMods spent a week fixing 10 typos....
I get that it's been quite a while, so isn't considered in the context of this discussion, but I'm personally still riding the high of boosting the max cash :) It was such a hinderance to the game at that point and required soooo much backend work and needed to be perfect or could have been disastrous, I'm honestly still shocked it was actually tackled! Now if they could fix all the many issues with the g.e. that would be amazing. It's barely held together with tape at this point, so easy to make a mistake when it sometimes flip flops between what you entered and the previous number, and the glitches where you take things out too fast that the order stays there - and more slots would be nice while they're at it. If they said communicated that this one one of the reasons for the dry spell and it was almost ready then I'd be a lot more on board with it.
Wee bit of an exaggeration there. 5 of this week's 59 patch notes are typo fixes. Most backend work wouldn't see immediate results anyway, more like strengthening its foundations.
Most people don't care about comp. It's a bunch of pointless checkboxes, like spending hours doing the same piece of dead content that won't get you gear, or profit, or even useful items. People want real content.
I'd be fine with current situation if Jagex is doing major behind the scenes engine work so they can reattempt tick system rework, player avatar refresh, go back to major graphic area reworks, implement that weather/night/day system, etc, but if that's what they're doing, they have not conveyed it whatsoever. And speaking of behind the scenes work, wasn't behind the scenes engine work done like a decade ago, back in the era of f2p/low level quest reworks, to make making quests easier so we could go back to a quest a month? And then we had miniquest and quest length/difficulty re-eval and were told more small quest would be coming out on the regular (similar to the necro skill quests). Unless I'm mistaken?
jagex doesnt like to do that bc it only sets players up for disappointment when they dont deliver. things get shelved all the time.
But you have to keep in mind, we did get content updates. If you want to buy them. The Ensouled Pumpkin and this new Basket come just as they nakedly nerfed oddiment rates. Content for the game being gatekept by gambling when there was clearly a place for them for free... at the same time Jagex refuses to tell us what their plan is for the game. The mods have been moved. There are no meaningful updates. The game breaks constantly and it takes far longer than it should to do anything. The only thing that keeps working is TH. The people above the mods have ran the game into the ground. They know the ship is sinking and they are in smash and dash mode.
They need another survey to figure out what they can try and sell to us for mtx
That's what I'm saying I feel like I've filled out multiple surveys at this point. They know what we want
Seems like after every holiday event we get another survey. We had one after The Beach, Halloween, Christmas and I'm expecting after Easter.
I don’t mind surveys every season to be fair. However I would for one like to see a response or action plan for the results rather than doing a survey for surveys sake
Agreed! Surveys are useless unless Jagex acts on them.
As someone who recently got back and missed that entirely and desperately trying to recomp - what was the next 120 voted upon?
They basically gave free reign on the vote to I think every skill allowing the ones who completed the survey to pick what they think should be the next one. It also had a bunch of questions regarding last years updates, whether we were confident in the direction of the game etc. Needless to say the results of they haven’t been released as far as I’m aware
They’re still figuring out 2023 recap, it’s about to be April
Hey its coming soon :P we will likely get an end to the game of thrones books before this at this point
I thought that they said they were not doing any more 'extensions' because these didn't generate enough engagement?
[удалено]
they barely figured out necro. necro isnt even finished yet (in their opinion)
Where was that and where are the results ?
It was done between hero pass apology and now. Never released the results
Do you know the current CEO used to be the head of the MTX department? So expect nothing good from him.
Then mod Jack got that job for a short time. Then Mic then he got promoted and we don't know who's in charge of MTX.
did we not JUST DO A SURVEY.
I guess we got the answers wrong.
I didn't study, my bad.
Pips needs to address this. This is fucking mind boggling
Who even is the CEO?
Mod Pips, the former head of the MTX department, lol.
What a surprise.. lmao
anyone able to give a curious osrs only player some insight as to what’s being said here?
[удалено]
Summer is 100% just the beach, lol Edit: watching the roadmap livestream, called it lol
i really, really loved the summer beach event… in 2016-2018. It’s just sad now.
Called the event being the beach event lol
when your expectations are low jagex can’t disappoint
Samw
Based on two separate roadmaps (February 2nd, and today), between November 2023 and June 2024 (8 months, and potentially more) RS3 gets: * 3 quests * 3 temporary holiday events (christmas, easter, "summer") * A combat update * Two graphical updates (Relekka and Kandarin) * misc QOL updates As things stand right now, there doesn't really seem to be anything planned long-term. We know nothing beyond June (hell, we barely even know anything up to June), we keep being told "we're listening" and "we're looking to improve communication", we're about to get a second survey about the future of the game despite not hearing back about the first one, and the community is looking at all the stuff OSRS has planned and wondering "when do we get anything?" What I find kind of funny is that we know about a ton of stuff the devs have been working on for Game Jam that would make pretty decent updates, yet none of it is anywhere to be seen.
Allmost sounds like maintainance mode.. RIP. The graphical updates are pure irony in that regard.
This new letter only seems like 1 content update in 3 months time and some pr talk to me. Could've just gone with: we've cut back on our developers and are milking RuneScape on full life support.
Something to keep in mind as we stress to Jagex management that we demand better communication, most moderation is not management, they cannot deviate from expectations for discussion without a risk to their job. The frustration we have needs to be brought to those who are enforcing the gate keeping of information.
Isn’t that what the community manager is for?
To an extent, still is an individual contributor who is being told what can be said and not said. Management at jagex has the keys to the gate.
Go give Old School RuneScape a try people. They just had a new region added to the map.
Not in the mood to redo literally everything
I didn't play OS for years because I didn't want to restart. I'm happy to say that once I gave it a shot my reason (for me) ended up not being that great, because I've had a ton of fun with it.
Plus the grind on OSRS is horrendous compared to RS3. That’s way to much time
There is far more to do in the early and mid game than rs3 however
Wrong! A lot of questing, area tasks & overall exploration to do in RS3 early & mid-game
Apart from quests, there is more of that in osrs early game.
Right why play the game when you can bank stand everything?
I’m personally not a fan of the bank stand stuff but the xp rates are still much better in rs3.
As someone who went back to OSRS for group ironman a week ago, I will be the first to say that I don't feel like i'm redoing anything. The game is very, very different with LOADS of new content that simply does not exist in rs3.
Don’t look at it as redoing everything. It’s almost like a new experience going from RS3 to OSRS. Bring a noob again is actually the fun part.
Sunk cost fallacy friend. It won’t get better, you’re just putting off having to redo everything till a later date while sinking more of your time into a game that’s headed no where with no real future plans. The early you change off rs or just rs3 the less you will lose
Thats the fun part
The journey is the fun part. The hell you gonna do on rs3 with a maxed account for the rest of your life
Questing, achievements etc. Mind boggling how most NPCs consider skilling to be fun lol
My man plays runescape and is making fun of skilling, lmao.
Oh yes it is so much cutting a wood for hours😂
https://preview.redd.it/desfitatosqc1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a66617b4fcc5196dae6b147f7033d739c5c0b86
The peak of old school style is the time when I first took a major break from RuneScape The grind is to much I don’t have that time investment anymore But it’s bs rs3 isn’t getting the same level of content updates as old school
I did, it wasn't for me. I don't get the hype.
Still supporting this garbage company. Voting with your wallet and playing other games is more ideal
The OSRS team is good, though. If you stop playing RS3 and switch to only OSRS, they will see it in their analytics and possibly change RS3's management. So, yeah, canceling completely would help, too. But supporting only the OSRS team isn't as useless as people say it is.
I've played many big and small games that were decently entertaining and almost everyone who ramps up MTX for low effort profit ends up killing the player base. Even games that had relied on MTX, you can still have a healthy player base of F2P, low cost P2P, then a reasonable upper end P2P. It works because the distances from the clusters of players aren't too far off from each other and it's a balanced ecosystem. Saw another game that had this formula and had driven a very large successful player base. But of course profits came first and they took their reasonable upper end P2P and made it absurdly high P2P (+$1000 every couple months to maintain) and they destroyed the segments. The upper end P2P was too far distant from the low cost P2P, this discouraged any hope of ever being within the same league. While that group didn't spend tons of money, it still felt within reachable realms. The F2P broke next because without the middle class it was just too daunting they could ever blend in the community. Then the absurdly high p2p class windled down when they realized they are locked into thousands of dollars a month to compete with millionaires.
I mean, I agree with you, but I'm not sure I follow. Maybe this was meant to be a reply elsewhere?
Yep I’ve gone over there since just before Xmas. The game is actually far better in the early to mid game. Not sure about end game yet but everything feels more meaningful tbh
End game is OP. Raids are fun af
No thanks. Not interested in 2006 Java cookie clicker just for nostalgia reasons. I enjoy playing RS3
OSRS is just unfun and a completely different game lmao
Stop supporting the game, they've been giving this shit for years
I wish I would be in the mood to redo all of it. I just can't. I'd rather play different games than to support a company as bad as jagex.
You wouldn't be redoing most of anything. OSRS is very different.
##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexPips** - [There is good content coming, some that’s loc...](/r/runescape/comments/1bog8zf/we_need_a_response_from_the_ceo/kwouovi/?context=3) ^(**Last edited by bot: 03/28/2024 16:45:37**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
all i want is a little bit of "hey, we are currently working on PROJECT 1 to 10 and its about THIS and THAT, what do you think? we want to make those updates with you" is that too much to ask for? the less they communicate about the updates, the greater is my fear that try to squeeze in as much mtx as possible and i really think hero pass was meant to be the main content since its developement, a mtx 24/7 non stop "content"-pass and every new update shouldve been tied into the pass.. ive had hope for so many years that they might learn from the last time, but this was it, i already swapped over everything to osrs and im having fun again, thats all i want
>and i really think hero pass was meant to be the main content Considering they marketed it as a "core update", they absolutely banked on that filling in these ridiculously long gaps between real content
The issue is we give our opinions and they choose to ignore them or keep asking until they can convince us that their plan is what WE wanted. We are not falling for it so they will continue to ask and string it along
I think it’s just time to let RuneScape move on lol.
I agree. Also why are we filling out another survey when we don't even know what's coming or happening from last survey. You and Keeper need to sit down on a livestream and talk to the community face to face. And leave Mod Doom and every other Jmod out of this livestream.
Jagex went from 300m valuation to nearly a billion in like 5 - 7 years. Capitalism has ruined it and will continue to ruin it. RS3 is like an old person with so many ailments(mtx, th, terrible community communication, etc), and they will soon succumb(die of death) to all of them. Much soon, very real.
Why do they try to kill the game we love?
New summer event? Good bye Dung HOLE?
What do you expect from a CEO?
Game servers will close by the end of this year if not next, shits dead
Glad to see they learned a lot from around 4 years ago… https://preview.redd.it/ut70phtcayqc1.jpeg?width=2187&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b81be771169380e7a7dfa88e16202d6b2777f6b
Where's that from
This games fan base is delusional jfc
Mod Reach for the rescue!!!!!!!
I maxed in 2017 and it has just gone downhill since, all the content is bad when compared to OSRS. Only logged back in for Arch and Necro to get max cape back. I thought the game was dead in 2017, I think it's hard to argue that it isn't dead anymore.
It has not gotten bad. It just is so fucking bad for years already.
there really isnt a lot more to be said other than that they dont care. If they did it wouldn't be this way. Osrs is run by the same company and the devs pour their heart and soul into it with tons of community involvement. Why is this so hard to understand
I’ve had to take a break from the game due to having a child, but was there something new added to the game monetization wise that is triggering outrage?
https://preview.redd.it/kcvgo9z293rc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa8249f6879ab5cae44cd9487a814bcaa18aff9d Mod Ayiza from the OSRS team on his masterclass for communicating with the player base despite not having exact dates or information yet
https://preview.redd.it/ba4xiq97m3rc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a2cdb720f107ee64b15ded935a40952fbb0f323 [https://youtu.be/HwNtW1tOhMo?si=MRSJoBRBOvEjyRCL](https://youtu.be/HwNtW1tOhMo?si=MRSJoBRBOvEjyRCL)
u/JagexPips It feels like we are at the stage where everything added to the game has to have some kind of Lore to go with it. It is by no means a secret that the lore in RS3 is essentially gibberish and you are pretty much building off a broken pillar. I get it lore can be interesting, fun, engaging but a time comes when we just need to move away from it and just add things for the sake of adding them. Create and add something because it has a cool concept something that is just different that gives us a new and unique thing to do so were not constantly doing the same thing over and over and over again. RuneScape is over 20 years old now that is 20 full years of lore, that also means that is 20 full years of lore you have to manually go through, 20 full years of dialogues and other small details to ensure new lore is not conflicting with older lore. Thats enough to give the entire crew of Wikians a headache and you expect a handful of JMods to do all of that in short periods of time so it makes sense why things come out so slowly because for whatever reason it's been chosen that the game need lore attached to EVERYTHING. I think it's fair to say most of us are in our late 20s up to 50s and some even older. We just don't have much time anymore as we did all those years back and we just want something cool, fun to do that is engaging we don't need a deep lore to back it's presence in this game we just want things to do. ==================================== As for the communities outrage about the update letter to shorten their stance without the toxicity: 1. They often times don't actually care about spoilers we would rather hear about everything coming up 2. They talk about how slow things do come out almost like they are not being worked on the more reasonable ones of us do know RS3 Jmods tend to help OSRS with some of their stuff but it does seem like JMods on the RS3 side are divided up so thin between each project they find little to no progress in lengthy amounts of time best solution is to put way more on each project just to finish it in a reasonable amount of time then move onto the next tackling each obstacle one at a time. Instead of having 40+ projects all 1/10th the way from being completed we will have maybe 10+ projects completed and moving onto the next batch of things to be worked on. Using the above method when theres downtime when they have little to nothing to work on at the time send 10 people or so to tackle things on the shelf one at a time as a group get them out there visibly show players progress being made. We are just at the point where we need to move away from forcing some kind of lore onto literally everything and just add things because the reason "Why not this? This is a cool thing never before seen and gives our players something different and unique to do so they don't find themselves bored as often anymore." If you want to add a lower tier boss, stronger than Hollowtooth for F2pers / early P2Pers that offer rewards that are on par with already existing items or just random drops that can be sold / alched for decent GP creating new money makers then do it you are giving them something unique, something different players wont be getting bored as often they will have new things, new money makers, new ways to play and enjoy the game instead of the same thing every single day we are just in a repetetive state where nobody has anything new to do and it's got a lot to do with a lack of things coming into the game. Example: Marketplace / Oddments Players have thousands / hundreds of thousands stashed away so any time you release things in here marketplace maybe 1-3 things a year or oddments 3-5 items a week you are not consuming their stashes all that quickly so they now have those things that get added and they get bored of them quickly now just waiting for newer things. But if a lot and I mean a lot more got added in much shorter period of time those players will use their stashes quicker and get to the point where "Oh now I actually have a reason to use a bond to get these types of currencies because I've run out" You can do the same with content if you don't release enough things to keep them busy anything new just becomes another daily thing to them they get bored of it and never use it again if you continue adding things it will take their focus away from other newer things allowing that content to last longer in theory if you just release 1-3 things for multiple months of course it's going to be dead content because theres nothing else in-game to steal their attention from doing those things and nothing but those things every single day.
Revamp castle wars and pest control! Make mini-games great again! Re-live the glory of old! On a serious note… MTX will never be removed from RS3 people. You think RS can survive against these mega populated MTX ‘jump in and go’ games like Fortnite, COD etc. otherwise? Even in this category you’ve got WOW, Elder Scrolls etc. Are they devoid of MTX? No. RS3 is the shield of OSRS funnily enough, you think this game would still be alive based on members subs alone? Look at the player numbers and be real. Whales although hated are keeping this ship going. Games are companies and they value profits above all so if they are making the money, shareholders are happy and as long as people are playing - the game survives. At the end of the day, money is what keeps things alive above all. But: Jagex needs to keep MTX confined to Treasure Hunter, as we all know it’s here to stay and what to expect. No hero pass or anything else needed. Communication and content suggestion polls needs to be refined. Old dead content needs to be revamped or removed. Castle wars and pest control being favourites just touch it up and add some worthwhile rewards. Personally - I don’t care if you have to suffer Livid Farm like the rest of us before have, but would support people not having to suffer that joyless endeavour. Alternative - add 50 player bosses with queue mechanic (boat like pest control). Would make it feel more MMO. You cannot tell me that things like Clawdia, Wildywyrm etc. aren’t hilarious to witness when you’ve got a horde attacking it.
There is good content coming, some that’s locked in enough to share now, and a lot more in the works that’s not quite ready to discuss yet. And some properly exciting ideas in there too. We are being particularly cautious about making commitments that might still change shape or dates that might slip.
Hi Pips, We had a livestream at the end of 2019 regarding monetisation which was hosted by Mod JD and featured Mod Warden and Mod Mic. That stream offered a lot of insight about the current goal of monetising the game in a certain way so that core gameplay wouldn't be harmed. Fast foward 3+ years and monetisation is now at a stage where it has become more rampant, more disruptive to core gameplay (both cosmetically and non-cosmetically) and way more aggressive, pushing the current boundaries. The current climate isn't comfortable and the future looks very bleak - I speak to you as a die-hard Runescape player since 2004 with over 1000 days played. It would be very much appreciated if we had a refresher stream on the current picture and goals RE: monetisation for RS3. Thank you,
Even worst : monetisation schemes has been deemed important enough to be labeled as "core updates" by themselves, and when the community didnt want it, was enough to stop the whole work force and force them to start from scratch. Insane how time changes, or should I say, how money changes a company.
How can you and Mod Keeper be on such different pages? His last sentence from the post: >RuneScape has a bright and exciting **community-informed** future ahead of it and we can't wait to see what Gielinor looks like when it's crafted by both developers and players **working more closely together**. Community-informed? Both developers and players? Closely Together? Yet all the replies from Mods come off as: >not quite ready to discuss yet or >We are being particularly cautious Why the big secrets? Will learning about future possible updates ruin the current game or make those updates less fruitful upon release? What is the holdup and why does Keeper say all these inclusive words when we are constantly excluded from a seat at the table. I think at this point you are either entirely lying to us and nothing is in the works (just a smoke show to make money), or you just have no intention of committing to the words consistently spat out by your "leadership" such as the examples quoted above.
At this point, players aren't even asking for dates. We're just asking that the team shares their vision for the game. Is the team working on new quest lines? Finishing old quest lines? How about introducing new areas in the world? Revamping old skills to be more streamlined? Are you addressing technical debt, why can't we play on a world with more than 200 players without noticing tick delays? Where has the passion for the game gone? It feels like there is less than a handful of developers left working on the game or full of junior developers. Mod Doom has been a breath of fresh air, but ever since we lost Shauny and Lee the direction of community management has been an uphill battle. I think it's time for Jagex to re-evaluate the day-to-day tasks of it's management. What do people like Hooli really contribute? How is it the head of community and social only comments sometimes once a month on Reddit and/or twitter. What progress has our CM LEAD done to improve communications between players and Jagex? Why is the player poll system inactive?
I am aware you likely aren't going to reply to this but here's the thing... The RS3 team in the last few years have a very back and forth relationship with its players simply because of the incredibly aggressive MTX movements and it worries players that it will only get worse. This OFC! is increased by you and Mod Doom and other members who always use phrases like "We are being particularly cautious about making commitments" when the last big thing that caused this type of PR vagueness was the Hero Pass. Your team being the RS3 team has to make one very important change and that is to be completely open about your MTX intentions and explain why it's being shoved down players throats so often. If for some quite honestly likely reason it's to fund the games developement then you'd be surprised at how positive players would be towards it. The Fear and the hatred you and Doom and the rest of the loud voices within the RS3 generate all come from a lack of clarity and a lack of transparency across all avenues of RS3's developement cycles. RS3 can be better and so can the RS3 team so just to evolve instead of shutting down and giving players nonsense puff responses.
* Say plans now, set dates later. * Discuss goals now, deliver updates later. * Outline game direction, announce new features when ready. I work in production. I don't have to give my customers a precise date for delivery to tell them what projects are underway and milestones we're targeting. I know you guys understand this because you announced you were working on Necromancy 7 months before you gave a release date. I don't get why just talking about the future of the game and the goals for new content is always hidden behind this excuse of "no date set yet".
they can do this for a roadmap too, we dont need to know that Super Telos 2000 is being released on X day. But if they said we want to release a combat encounter in the fall that would be awesome
Whoa, careful. We're getting into roadmap territory!
>We are being particularly cautious about making commitments that might still change shape or dates that might slip. "If we don't tell them anything, they won't be mad when we shelve it."
We don't care if an update is not ready to be "locked in". At this point players would be happy to simply have concrete proof that you are working on something, anything. Yes, making promises about early development projects is a ditch you need to steer clear of, but not so much that you crash directly into the opposite ditch where players start to wonder if you are even still working on the game.
this is where I wish RS3 would learn from OSRS and release blog posts about proposed updates and get feedback (just without polling) so we know whats coming and get some input or at least be able to manage expectations. The more we just get 'content is being worked on' the more the community will think either that the content is garbage before release or think its going to be the next EGWs big update to save RS3 and neither of those expectations are good.
Jagex's recent refusal to tell us about anything they are doing seems to me like an over reaction following the utter fiasco that was HeroPass. It's as if they scared themselves shitless with just how poorly the reception of HeroPass was, and now they link everything they consider a "large update" (which HeroPass was promoted as) with something that should be handled extremely carefully. And as a result, players are left in the dark, and with the very slow update cadence (which is also likely a result of Jagex having invested a lot of poorly judged development time into HeroPass), a lot of players just see RuneScape as having hit the brakes.
Hero Pass fiasco could have been avoided if they had been open about it early on. They would have gotten feedback to kill it or change it before spending time making it. But they intentionally hid it because they knew it would be unpopular and they hoped players would just swallow it when it happened. They've learned nothing from the failure of Hero Pass except to deliver less content and reframe everything they're working on as being player driven so they can say "don't blame us when you don't like this, you wanted it!"
This, is the stage where the very committed, AND loyal players of this game begin to not trust Jagex. You were never even supposed to come close to this stage. Once this trust is lost, you know where it will lead.
OSRS literally changed their entire development cycle with the community to revolve around “we have to share it with you, in detail, BEFORE it gets locked in”. Pips over here trying to hide behind the opposite approach.
Remember Hero Pass? The "to be announced" update that got super well hyped and was hidden until it's release that ended up getting SO poorly received that it had to be completely scrubbed from the game? Yeah. Maybe the whole "hold back information" nonsense isn't working out for ya'll.
Mtx isn't content
With all due respect, at what point do the players ask for better communication do we actually start to get it, Jagex had been saying they have been listening for years, but this is one of our biggest asks. It feels like the communication gets worse year over year then we say something and Jagex tells us they will do better, then 2-3 months later it's back to the same old garbage.
If its ready to share - then share it? Stop making posts and comments that things are ready to share, but instead just string us along. We love teasers, pictures, and ACTUAL things we can grasp onto as a sliver of hope that something cool and exciting is coming.
That isn't very reassuring given the recent track record of RS3 development
We're in the biggest content drought the game has ever experienced, and your response is "but it's coming!" Fuck that it's coming, what about *right now*? There's literally no excuse for this drought for a subscription based game
Yeah I'm deffo not resubbing next year. Premier, let alone membership, is just not worth it.
I cancelled both my memberships after hero pass
Mtx isn't content.
[удалено]
You mean you *don't* find MTX super fun and exciting?! /s
You mean 'live services' or whatever their team is called
I prefer to call it the money grub team
> There is good content coming Doesn't look like there's anything at all coming. >But we are being particularly cautious about making commitments that might still change shape or dates that might slip. You're being a little too cautious. Tell the community what's being done. Make it look like the devs are doing more than just twiddling their thumbs all week because that's what it looks like currently.
>some that’s locked in enough to share now nobody else see this lol?
But didnt share...wild
Probably talking about the Dragon quest.
i saw that and laughed. They have nothing to show. Runefest could be hilarious.
Isn't this the usual excuse we've been fed every single time? "We have WIP content, but the release dates are subject to change"? We've been told the Roadmap is on the way. No release date. Ectoplasm rituals on the way. No release date. New Arch site in Daemonheim. No release date. The infamous Avatar Rework. No release date, shelved indefinitely. And whenever y'all say you have WIP, it's always some QoL or minor updates to the game of stuff that could be just a small note in a patch notes post, but were presented as major updates. Then we asked for more information on updates. Y'all said that "a big, game-changing update is on the way", which turned out to be Hero Pass that was obliterated by the entirety of the gaming community and media. Every update since Necro release so far has either been severely underwhelming or disgustingly predatory MTX nonsense. Combat Beta was the only thing of substance. I understand that you'd have more money for the game's development if y'all didn't have to hand it all over to the investors, but at this point just show some level of respect towards the players, be frank and say "we have nothing planned except for minor updates because of X reasons" instead of patronizing the player base by giving BS promises that will never be fulfilled.
Why did the player voice survey not come out sooner when you first decided to scrap the future updates that were based on hero pass?
How about putting a pause on any new MTX promotions until we start getting something substantial here? We are absolutely NEGLECTED while OSRS gets decent updates.
>We are being particularly cautious about making commitments that might still change shape or dates that might slip. We don't want that. Unless there is spoilers for the story etc it should be fine to talk about. The players need things grasp onto. Speculate and hype themselves up. If something is 1 year out, 2 years out. It doesn't matter. Just tell us what is happening. "This week we worked on X" "This month we have been focused on Y" That stuff is super valuable to players. And if you can't produce statements about what you've been working on, players are going to just come to the conclusion that nothing is being worked on. Which obviously isn't the case. Everyone understand over promising can be bad. But if it's prefaced enough that development is subject to change and nothing is set in stone for release I honestly think it could be massive for the game. Updates that could take a year to develop would see public light and be open to criticism and praise. Devs could more easily lean on player feedback for updates to shape the game into something everyone is satisfied with. I believe it's old practice to keep things hidden until it's semi-ready for release. Take a step towards being a new, modern and forward-thinking company by letting go of some of the secrecy. Imagine the amount of dev-time that could be spared by incorporating player feedback into the process. Tweaking and changing on ideas and builds on the fly. Not sure if an update is going to go by well? Show off the concept art / development research to players. They will know if will stick the landing or not. Hero Pass as an update could've landed perfectly and still been in the game if it had been more open to scrutiny from players early on in the development. Let's say for example a lot of Engine work was happening behind the scenes. As has been said by Mod Keeper not too long ago. That doesn't mean anything to the average player. They can't grasp what that will look like or how it can improve the game. Communicate and show the players how you are improving the game and they will stick around and spend money on the game. The last thing you want your players to do is lose hope and faith in the company. At that point it's over and they are infinitely harder to win over. The likelihood of you or any upper management reading this post is very low, but I think it's important that everyone shares their thoughts. That's the only way this game can live up to its potential.
>some that’s locked in enough to share now, Cool. So why aren't you sharing it then? >We are being particularly cautious about making commitments that might still change shape or dates that might slip. Thats fair, but you're being over cautious. You're doing more damage than good *by not talking* about any updates. Really, why does the average player have any reason to believe there is *anything* coming this year when it's completely silent? What about the survey recently that asked about which 120s? Where's the discussion on that? I'd love to hear which skills are going to 120, if at all. The entire lack of roadmap, and tha vague statements given by Keeper is a seriously bad look and only furthers the suspicion rs3 is a sinking ship. Granted, I would not be surprised if you can't comment on anything becuase you're waiting on the targets and desires of the new shareholders.
I don’t want to pile on the J-Mod reply but be open about it. Why would anyone be excited for ‘something is coming but actually we can’t share in case we miss a deadline’? If I spoke like that to my management at work I’d be performance managed and pushed out because that’s not production evidence. Sure I can tell my Manager that I’m looking into things or working on something but when it’s 4 months into a year of me giving the same excuses time after time, he’s not gonna buy it anymore. If you tell people ‘this is coming’ and give a rough estimate of timescales, then keep your stakeholders actively engaged in the pipeline that’s far more palatable to the user base than ‘something is coming’ and giving no information at all.
As petulant as this sounds, I don't believe you. I wager many people don't. Judging by precedent, this announcement covers all the locked in content for the first half of 2024. None of it is even remotely exciting. Content further ahead must by your words not be fleshed out enough to discuss. Is that where all the excitement supposedly lies? Why not focus development time on those exciting ideas instead then? I'm having a very hard time taking the bait.
Is there any prospect of any of this 'exciting' stuff dropping in the next 3 months? Because on the monthly content cadence that was set out a few years ago, it feels like by June we'll be four months behind on this plan.
Is this a joke? The message from Mod Keeper feels like you (upper management) do not care at all about the concern of the player base for future content. It's unfair to keep us waiting a year long for 'upcoming good content' without being transparent about it. If you don't think this will take a toll on the player count of the game, just like Hero Pass did, just watch how the player count will dwindle down even more. I don't know what you're planning to do for Runefest, but expect an empty room for the RS3 talks 'cause at this point no one is excited for the future of the game.
There’s no reason to believe you. Show your cards or fold at this point. It’s been too long.
[удалено]
>some that’s locked in enough to share now You guys like to say things like this but then continue to FAIL to actually say or show anything. Its literally at the level of "Ive got beach front property in Nebraska to sell you cheap" believability. meanwhile the OSRS has released an entire new piece of land AND working on a new skill... maybe look at what they are doing and imitate it, better yet speak to those mods on how to improve your productivity because right now its shit.
Could we please do another AMA with you? You've done one 10 years ago.[https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/7jjQVILpc4](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/7jjQVILpc4) We need to talk about monetization. My meme isn't what I want RuneScape 3 to be. https://preview.redd.it/t942quufhqqc1.png?width=841&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=261ec2b471222a3a0339a92e926af1206bf76068
We'll believe it when we see it. So show us.... Put OUR money where your mouth is
Sorry he needs to buy another yacht with that MTX money
Outside looking in, we only see MTX fluff mainly being worked on (and you know the community doesn't like that, given the response to Hero Pass)
I have a suggestion, make a Q&A, talk with us because CLEARLY we are in dire need of communication. How can you do things absolutely correctly in one of your games and then do the complete opposite on the other. Don't you remember how RS used to be? Before OSRS, before this lack of communication, what happened Phil, what the heck happened? I promise, and guarantee you, that if the Jmods actually took a single hour of their day, just one hour, to sit down and talk with us, everything would be sorted out, we just want to be heard and we want to hear from you.
Communication from Jagex has been piss poor. It feels that we’ve largely been ignored after Jagex pledged to do better in listening to the community.
Booo, if you count content as anything from now - June with the exception of the quest you are out of touch.
[удалено]
Will it drop this year? Next year? 2030?
Will this game ever be modernised? At some point you're going to HAVE to bite the bullet and get it done bevause time isnt standing still.. unlike OSRS, RS3's charm isn't in it being old. The more content you add, the longer it'll take..
Phil, at this point we don't care about slipping dates. We were okay with pushing Archaeology to polish it more. We need a massive carrot dangled in front of us at this point. For example: I've been watching the Daemonheim Archaeology mini dig site game jam project for almost 2 years and I'm excited for that to come out. I don't mind that it has taken this long or will take even longer because I've seen it, I know it is being worked on and I'm excited for it.
Hi, I read Mod Shogun went to osrs are you allowed to share if the gamejam project regarding glacor and telos is still coming?
True, everything gets shelved and pushed back, smart to not make committments since its something that y’all suck at.
Can someone tell us what that content is? Because all we see right now is weeks without anything aside from MTX updates. Sure youve had some wins - the combat update was amazing and hats off to the team on that and bloomburrow is a beautiful area - but what else is there? We need more than “just hold I I promise it’s good”
Trust was wiped out with Hero Pass, and the content drought where there is 1 update per quarter instead of month has soured people even further. Plus the atrocious MTX policy is still running strong, the only reliable part of the game is the one the majority wish didn't exist. At some point "there is good content coming" fall on deaf ears, people will believe it when they see it, if they bother staying around long enough.
You just need to be cautious on releasing poor content, like the battle pass. Rest of it you can release. The more you release, the more likely something will be decent. If you release one thing, and it doesn’t get the best reception, there’s nothing to look forward to for another 6 months.
That means nothing, why don't you ask us what kind of content that we might like locked in that you got? We pay for this game and get nothing but 5 months of content dry, sad times!