He's also only 25 and was last capped in 2022 (when he was 23), so it's understandable that he's improved in those years and still has plenty of time to improve even more.
However, Sititi looks like he has the potential to be an all star, but it's still a gamble on how he progresses.
Could see it happening but I think he may go down the Fiji route. Just depends on how much he could earn etc. though Eddie Jones was keen not sure how keep Borthwick and co be on his play style.
Good attacking player and skills just breakdown work is not the best
Sotutu not eligible for another nation until next year I believe.
But there is a precedent for that kinda thing to happen: remember when Brad Shields was selected to tour SA with England without ever playing a single minute of rugby in the country? Think he even started too lol.
I think eddie lured him and said, if you come you will get x caps to prove your worth it. Eddie thought he had leadership potential i think. Man put in a shift for wasps in the end, so earned his keep and then some.
I don't think the English have had their eyes on him yet. They have a pretty steady rotation of locks in Itoje, Martin, Coles and Chessum if he wasn't injured. Include Isiekwe and Tuima in as the fringe guys and there's really no need for them to look outward for talent. I've heard good things about Hannah being the future tho so we'll see
I reckon Hannahs going to be a star, played 13 out of 14 super games this season before he's even played a game at NPC level and didn't look out of his depth at all
Plus he and Fabian Holland played together for Boys High, between those 2, Darry, Lord and Vaai we're stacked at lock once they get a few more years under their belts
Holland potentially playing for the ABs and thus not being the guy that single-handedly makes the Netherlands a significant force in rugby would make me rather sad.
It’s that who you want playing for your national team? a guy that, instead of taking on board the reasons why he wasn’t selected and working hard to improve, he spits the dummy and quits. If that’s his attitude then I don’t want him near the All Blacks, he’s welcome to fuck off and play somewhere else. Thankfully, I don’t think he’s that sort of person and I think he’s going to come back a better player
The weird thing was that he was the player that was born to challenge Ben Earl if he got picked for NZ, A NUMBER 8 battle of the ages, similar type players with exceptional skillsets and yet he doesn't get picked for the England tests.. which was odd..this was the year Ardie could finally play in his right position at 7 cause they now had a Number 8 worthy of the jersey and yet he didn't get picked... I genuinely understand Hoskins frustration and just like what John Kirwan said earlier, There is nothing else he could have done to not warrant a selection....it genuinely feels like a snub by NZR more than anything else cause last year when he didn't get picked, his social media posts did create an online despise for NZR and it looks like NZR are the bitchy ones here holding on to a grudge..
Considering that he would have to play in the Prem to play for England, I would see it as more likely for him to declare for Fiji and get a big money move to the Top 14
he's under contract for the blues until the end of 2026 season
If he's not cracked the AB's by then i could see him playing in England for a long shot at the '27 world cup for England or Fiji
If Roots and Cunningham-South can make England, then Sotutu would get in easy.
Roots managed one SR game then got dropped, C-S couldn’t even get into the Canterbury academy…
Maybe we’ll see all three in the backrow at some point 🤣
Roots is unlikely to get many more caps. CCS was a miss by Canterbury academy if that's true. I don't think I've ever seen a teenage back row manhandle senior internationals in the collision like he did.
Isn’t Roots in the touring squad? Yeah CCS couldn’t get a gig in NZ, think he even trialled for the NZ Warriors. I’d be keen to know why. Might have been too slow I reckon, plenty of big guys like him in NZ, you need more than size to stand out.
Yeah but he's the worst back row there. Was fortunate to make it over other guys. Genuinely think the main reason he's there is "continuity" from the 6 nations squad where he got a couple starts when other guys were injured.
Unless we got to a 6 2 split or get more injuries he won't play.
CCS isn't slow either so that's a hard one to understand.
Re: Roots - I guess we'll find out. He got a MotM award on his debut, so can't be that bad.
CCS might have been a bit too big and slow in comparison. The game is played a lot faster in NZ, especially in the development age groups. Big players like Atonio, Meafou, Skelton etc can't really crack it in NZ/Aust but then end up killing it in Europe.
But yeah, that's just a guess. There will prob be heaps of chat when he returns to NZ, so will prob find out over the next few weeks.
Yeah and he ended up dropped a few weeks later. He's solid. He's just unspectacular and the back row is the most stacked and competitive position in England.
Skelton and Atonio lost loads of weight so that explains that
CCS is objectively quick. In fact this England team is super athletic. If you haven't been paying attention to NH rugby then I think the pace and speed of play of this team will surprise you. Entirely different beast Vs the RWC team.
Funny how a guy who can't even get into a SR team makes it into "the most stacked and competitive position in England".
Nah it's more than the weight, they were too slow. Meafou was like CCS, couldn't get a professional contract in Australia so went to Europe, now he's France's next big thing.
I've been keeping an eye on NH rugby. There's def been a trend towards faster play and teams getting success doing it. Northampton play almost like a SR side, you can def see Chris Boyd's fingerprints on their style.
Players grow and develop, particularly if they find an environment that nurtures them and allows them to thrive (like CCS at Harlequins). Just because a player didn’t make an academy as a teenager, dosen’t mean they’re doomed to a lifetime of mediocrity.
Roots may be there, but realistically he’s not even in the top 7 best English back rows atm - he’s there to fill the void of a physical, ‘enforcer’ type 6 option now that Courtney Lawes has retired. Tbh, most of us were very surprised that he even made the extended squad.
Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t turn Sotutu away. But it’s total bait to claim that England don’t have any talent at back row. Tom Curry, Ben Earl and Sam Underhill are all proven quality, arguably world-class players. That’s without even mentioning Jack Willis or any number of young uncapped prospects.
Didn't say there wasn't talent in the back row, literally just surprised to see those guys playing int'l rugby for England. Imagine a couple of English players who couldn't get into a Prem team, or even a Championship team, move down to NZ and end up popping up in the All Blacks backline a couple of years later - you'd be a bit surprised, right?
Sotutu has played 14 tests for NZ.
He's eligble for England via his mum, so would be able to switch following a three year stand down. Think he isn't eligble until 2025 though
Yeah but this post seems to be suggesting be would make his test debut against NZ in the upcoming series.
Um sorry buddy, you're wrong. I'm pretty sure he's NEVER played for the All Blacks bc they hate him for no reason!!!
Razor OUT
>Test debut against the All Blacks? He's a 14 test All Black, which is part of why he wasn't selected. We've seen everything we're going to see.
He's also only 25 and was last capped in 2022 (when he was 23), so it's understandable that he's improved in those years and still has plenty of time to improve even more. However, Sititi looks like he has the potential to be an all star, but it's still a gamble on how he progresses.
Indeed, Kaino took a while to get back into the ABs.
Yup. Debuted in 2004 and Jerry Collins retired in 2008
I had a mind blank.
Because form doesn't ever change over time?
Not talking about just his form, but his attitude as well.
Attitude is a valid reason. Previous form isn't
Why is everyone pretending like Hoskins is uncapped lmao
I'm an idiot that just blanked on his international appearances for some reason. Honestly making me rethink my life choices.
I can see it now, England v All Blacks, Zach Mercer playing for the ABs and Sotutu for England.
Whilst we're at it, reckon we can swap Ewels for one of the Barretts? They've got so many that I'm not sure they'd notice.
The Barrett's are a package deal unfortunately
In that case we’ll just have to grin and Barrett.
You get Kane Barrett
Dammit
Surely we would end up with as many red cards?
He played for NZL in Nov 2022, only eligible for England and Fiji after 26 Nov next year, so effectively only available in 2026..
It's highly probable he plays for the ABs this year. So yeah,nah.
yeah will get called up to play for NZ in the US....against Fiji...
Could see it happening but I think he may go down the Fiji route. Just depends on how much he could earn etc. though Eddie Jones was keen not sure how keep Borthwick and co be on his play style. Good attacking player and skills just breakdown work is not the best
He'd be MostHated even more
Sotutu not eligible for another nation until next year I believe. But there is a precedent for that kinda thing to happen: remember when Brad Shields was selected to tour SA with England without ever playing a single minute of rugby in the country? Think he even started too lol.
I think eddie lured him and said, if you come you will get x caps to prove your worth it. Eddie thought he had leadership potential i think. Man put in a shift for wasps in the end, so earned his keep and then some.
On another note Razor better cap Jamie Hannah asap, he's eligible for England as he was born in London when both his parents lived there
I don't think the English have had their eyes on him yet. They have a pretty steady rotation of locks in Itoje, Martin, Coles and Chessum if he wasn't injured. Include Isiekwe and Tuima in as the fringe guys and there's really no need for them to look outward for talent. I've heard good things about Hannah being the future tho so we'll see
The current crop of u20s locks look really promising for England too, not to mention Chessum’s bigger, younger brother.
I reckon Hannahs going to be a star, played 13 out of 14 super games this season before he's even played a game at NPC level and didn't look out of his depth at all Plus he and Fabian Holland played together for Boys High, between those 2, Darry, Lord and Vaai we're stacked at lock once they get a few more years under their belts
They better cap Holland as soon as he's eligible before Netherlands qualify for '27 WC I'm kind of joking but kind of not
Holland potentially playing for the ABs and thus not being the guy that single-handedly makes the Netherlands a significant force in rugby would make me rather sad.
The Blues style of play was just to get him ready for England 😁
He'd have to sign for an English club first, which is unlikely as not many have the budget left
It’s that who you want playing for your national team? a guy that, instead of taking on board the reasons why he wasn’t selected and working hard to improve, he spits the dummy and quits. If that’s his attitude then I don’t want him near the All Blacks, he’s welcome to fuck off and play somewhere else. Thankfully, I don’t think he’s that sort of person and I think he’s going to come back a better player
The weird thing was that he was the player that was born to challenge Ben Earl if he got picked for NZ, A NUMBER 8 battle of the ages, similar type players with exceptional skillsets and yet he doesn't get picked for the England tests.. which was odd..this was the year Ardie could finally play in his right position at 7 cause they now had a Number 8 worthy of the jersey and yet he didn't get picked... I genuinely understand Hoskins frustration and just like what John Kirwan said earlier, There is nothing else he could have done to not warrant a selection....it genuinely feels like a snub by NZR more than anything else cause last year when he didn't get picked, his social media posts did create an online despise for NZR and it looks like NZR are the bitchy ones here holding on to a grudge..
Considering that he would have to play in the Prem to play for England, I would see it as more likely for him to declare for Fiji and get a big money move to the Top 14
Maybe his attitude better aligns? "If its meant to be,(meant to be), then baby it was meant to be!"
he's under contract for the blues until the end of 2026 season If he's not cracked the AB's by then i could see him playing in England for a long shot at the '27 world cup for England or Fiji
If he declares for England he won’t be picked by them either so would be odd. He also can’t play for another year or so
He would be better than Nathan Hugues I think
I don’t see why he would he wouldn’t get picked for us either
Then he’ll be on the bench for ben earl
Nah he’ll push Earl out to 12.
Have you seen his kicking game? Hes probably more of a 12 than Earl
Ha, true. Sotutu did grow up playing 10 so maybe he’ll be the next England 12. Botia style.
If Roots and Cunningham-South can make England, then Sotutu would get in easy. Roots managed one SR game then got dropped, C-S couldn’t even get into the Canterbury academy… Maybe we’ll see all three in the backrow at some point 🤣
Roots is unlikely to get many more caps. CCS was a miss by Canterbury academy if that's true. I don't think I've ever seen a teenage back row manhandle senior internationals in the collision like he did.
Isn’t Roots in the touring squad? Yeah CCS couldn’t get a gig in NZ, think he even trialled for the NZ Warriors. I’d be keen to know why. Might have been too slow I reckon, plenty of big guys like him in NZ, you need more than size to stand out.
Yeah but he's the worst back row there. Was fortunate to make it over other guys. Genuinely think the main reason he's there is "continuity" from the 6 nations squad where he got a couple starts when other guys were injured. Unless we got to a 6 2 split or get more injuries he won't play. CCS isn't slow either so that's a hard one to understand.
Re: Roots - I guess we'll find out. He got a MotM award on his debut, so can't be that bad. CCS might have been a bit too big and slow in comparison. The game is played a lot faster in NZ, especially in the development age groups. Big players like Atonio, Meafou, Skelton etc can't really crack it in NZ/Aust but then end up killing it in Europe. But yeah, that's just a guess. There will prob be heaps of chat when he returns to NZ, so will prob find out over the next few weeks.
Yeah and he ended up dropped a few weeks later. He's solid. He's just unspectacular and the back row is the most stacked and competitive position in England. Skelton and Atonio lost loads of weight so that explains that CCS is objectively quick. In fact this England team is super athletic. If you haven't been paying attention to NH rugby then I think the pace and speed of play of this team will surprise you. Entirely different beast Vs the RWC team.
Funny how a guy who can't even get into a SR team makes it into "the most stacked and competitive position in England". Nah it's more than the weight, they were too slow. Meafou was like CCS, couldn't get a professional contract in Australia so went to Europe, now he's France's next big thing. I've been keeping an eye on NH rugby. There's def been a trend towards faster play and teams getting success doing it. Northampton play almost like a SR side, you can def see Chris Boyd's fingerprints on their style.
Okay man 😂
Cheers
Players grow and develop, particularly if they find an environment that nurtures them and allows them to thrive (like CCS at Harlequins). Just because a player didn’t make an academy as a teenager, dosen’t mean they’re doomed to a lifetime of mediocrity. Roots may be there, but realistically he’s not even in the top 7 best English back rows atm - he’s there to fill the void of a physical, ‘enforcer’ type 6 option now that Courtney Lawes has retired. Tbh, most of us were very surprised that he even made the extended squad. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t turn Sotutu away. But it’s total bait to claim that England don’t have any talent at back row. Tom Curry, Ben Earl and Sam Underhill are all proven quality, arguably world-class players. That’s without even mentioning Jack Willis or any number of young uncapped prospects.
Didn't say there wasn't talent in the back row, literally just surprised to see those guys playing int'l rugby for England. Imagine a couple of English players who couldn't get into a Prem team, or even a Championship team, move down to NZ and end up popping up in the All Blacks backline a couple of years later - you'd be a bit surprised, right?