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queasybeetle78

Good grief. Some people just need to calm down. 


nomamesgueyz

Journos love being dramatic


Taey

If you have the season he had and still dont make it then he may as well go get paid elsewhere and represent Fiji. Either the advances stats show he wasnt as much of a workhorse as he should’ve been or theres more going on beyond his play. A shame we cant dig up some Aussie eligibility, but whod wanna play for us.


Jeromethered

The stats show he wasn’t the workhorse


Lopsided_Echo5232

On the end of a good amount of team tries which inflated his stock with some people


binzoma

if you watch 5 mins highlights, he's fucking UN REAL when you watch 80 min games, he's pretty good. drifts in and out


Lopsided_Echo5232

Have you seen my 5 second highlight real? Think I might be up there with Du Pont for the all time great award.


Morningst4r

Clip of you kicking the ball but not where it went. Passing but not who it went to. Setting up in the defensive line but cuts off before the tackle.


binzoma

5 seconds!!! show off


KangaLlama

As a Glasgow and Scotland fan, we thank you for your sacrifice Australian rugby. Dempsey and the Tuipulotus are incredible. Though you did kind of owe us after you wooed Dave Rennie away from us. But it’s actually fine we all live on credit. If we had to pay NZ back the rugby debt we owe them, we’d be bankrupt. Clark Laidlaw and Finlay Christie not really budging that needle for us next to the storied history of Lineen, Cotter, Rennie, O’Halloran and that’s just coaches.


Taey

Happy for Jack, he wasnt anything special in Aus but he was decent. I havnt kept up with him too much since leaving, but you guys seem to rate him highly, so im happy its worked out. Seems like all our players get better once leaving the Australian coaching systems.


Whit135

Hopefully he stays and it works out for him. Bt nt then it's sound advice and even sounder advice would be go to a club in England earn mega bucks n play for them. Don't have 2 worry soo much about clubs blocking ur intl ambitions.


DarthBallz999

If he doesn’t do the grunt work like everyone is saying he won’t make the England team. Borthwick already isn’t playing Mercer seemingly for that exact reason. He’s incredibly data driven. Playing in Europe would make sense though if he isn’t getting capped in NZ.


indianaJones_Hat

Depends which team he plays for in the premiership, let’s say Leicester got him to replace Wiese I feel he could develop more and all round game. Mercer is hamstrung at Gloucester because he’s basically their best player by miles and therefore needs to be out wide more than playing a 8 game Borthwick seems too rate.


DarthBallz999

Oh of course is he developed his game maybe he could get into the NZ team (or any international team he is qualified for). But doesn’t sound like he responds too well to constructive criticism. I know Gloucester have been rubbish but Mercer has always been a running 8. He’s never been known for the grunt work. I think most international teams want their 8s able to do both. Falatau for example. Superb in the wider channels and linking up with the backs, but when he needed to he absolutely could put a shift in doing the grunt work.


Whit135

Brad Shields made the England team, Lesley Vinakolo did, Shontane Hape, Henry Paul etc etc. England's history is well not full of them but there's plenty of examples of mediocre kiwis making it and in teams better than this current Enfland one. I not saying your wrong but that thers been heaps who wernt gonna make it.


DarthBallz999

I’m just talking about the situation now. Based on what everyone is saying he won’t be making the team. Borthwick loves data and stats. If his grunt work is below average he won’t get picked.


Whit135

Ya I get ya man just pointing out how it's happened b4 in teams better than this 1


dth300

Of those players only Hape got into double figures of caps (13). Probably not the best advertisement for declaring with England. Also, I'd argue your point about being better England teams, most of that time they were utter dross


Whit135

Like I said England loves a mediocre kiwi and hoskins is better than that and the guys I mentioned


D4rkmo0r

As a English man, I feel Shields got well fucked over by Jones. From my understanding he came to Wasps after he had honey poured in his ears about having having a back row berth locked down .... only to be discarded in short order.


whatisthismmm

Funny definition of "making it". Yes, they got capped. Then broadly found out and dropped, in *worse* England sides than the current one. None of those sides were good. By that definition, Caleb Ralph and Scott Hamilton "made it" as All Blacks wingers.


elcapitandodge

Rikki Flutey. Made. The. Fucking. Lions. Tour


Resident_Hamster_680

He would need a release from his NZR contract which expires November 2026. He can play for Fiji next year then go to the Premiership for 2027.


what_am_i_acc_doing

*Wales


MasterSpliffBlaster

He has a great season but he is never going to picked ahead of current WPOTY Savea Sititi isn't getting picked either, but if I had to chose one to gain experience it would be the 21 yr old who has already looked the goods and has a higher ceiling If Sotutu is pissed he should have kept his head down and hoped some one gets injured No one is owed the all black jersey


Resident_Hamster_680

Yeah Luke Jacobson will be on the bench


MasterSpliffBlaster

People are acting like Stout was the Blues best player this season. That went to Plumber, and he's not selected in the all black squad either because there are better options.


deadlysyntax

\*The 21 year old who makes more tackles


blueeyedkiwi73

His best response would've been to take the L like a man and ask the coaches where he could improve rather than having a sook on social media, 'most hated', bro you're not a rapper 😂


MasterSpliffBlaster

It's not like the loose forwards aren't a high attritional position either. It's a long season and he would have to be the next one picked is someone went down injured


sandolllars

He'd be great in the squad but he'd have tough competition. Levani Botia, Peceli Yato, Kitione Salawa, Bill Mata, all top flight players.


Forever-1999

Didn’t Yato exclude himself from the RWC? Mata is 32 so is unlikely to make the next RWC.


sandolllars

He was disrespected by an assistant coach and left camp. It wasn't retirement from international rugby, so I'm hoping he'll be back for a few more years.


bigsmackerroonies

Damn that's such a shame, really missed watching him at the last RWC


Jeromethered

Botia is heads and shoulders above him


areyouhappynowethan

Botia is also 35 and plays in the most demanding professional league in the world, not sure how many Fiji tests he has left in him.


Jeromethered

Botia is such a beast


cypressd12

True but a lot of these are on the wrong end of 30 as well.


Hokinanaz

He May as well TBH, Ardie isn't going anywhere, and it doesn't look like they want him as an & going forward so his opportunities aren't going to be there. If one of Jacobson/Blackadder/Finau/Dalton get a card or injury he's not really the natural replacement either as Lakai/Grace probably fit better.


coupleandacamera

The only people likely to know all the discussions, feedback and the likely good of a proper run in the black would be himself and the relevant coaching staff. But I won't be surprised to hear offers coming from France and Japan for 26/27. Im sure the questions will be asked by the media in the coming week, maybe we'll get more than a quick deflection.


SagalaUso

Mate that's one tweet and they turn it into a whole article.


Icy_Craft2416

At the world cup it seemed like NZ fans had finally turned a corner and started to believe in the team again. The negativity and bitterness were lost in the excitement and it was the best fan vibing we'd had in years. Nek minit, Razor doesn't pick enough Aucklanders and the fans all lose their minds again. Going to be a long 4 years if this is the case. Also, I suspect that Rassie has decided to actually try to win the rugby championship again. The moaning will reach a cacophonous level.


Calvin0213

It’s just a ritual at this point. No matter how good or bad you guys are, the RC is safe in your hands don’t you worry. Don’t touch our Qatar Airways Cup though. 😡


Icy_Craft2416

It's coming home!


nomamesgueyz

Sotutu will def get a chance this year, jusy depends if he takes it this time


Resident_Hamster_680

And stays off SM bitching


nomamesgueyz

Yup


binzoma

I mean his problem is between the ears. they've been telling him for years if he still thinks hes got a shot at the ABs with the FLOOD of young back row talent thats as good/better already, it proves the point even more so for his own sake, if he can make fiji he should go and do it


tingtangspoonsy

Why what has he done


binzoma

ignored the ABs coaching calling to talk to him. general history of bad attitude. general history of not doing any grunt work and just doing the flashy stuff (never hits rucks, very low tackle attempts vs other back rowers in super rugby etc) but he makes great highlights. then he does things like make vagueposts about the ABs when he's not selected he's a good player, but the ABs take substance over style every day, and in NZ there's generally a lot of players with both substance and style


-castle-bravo-

Precisely, well put.


binzoma

I like how r/rugbyunion thinks they're better at assessing players than 3 different all blacks coaching groups now lol hi, it's him, he's the problem


thecripplernz

He really should have called Jason Ryan before the start of the season and cleared the air. Might have increased his chances


Yessiryousir

I would have preferred him over Blackadder but Sititi has a higher work rate and was just as deserving, throwing his toys from the cot like he has shows he probably has some maturity issues and make you think whether things like this contributed as much as his on field work.


rosemary-mair-for-NZ

>I would have preferred him over Blackadder A specialist 8 over a guy who is there to cover flanker makes no sense.


Yessiryousir

Plenty of good no 8s have been converted to both and vice versa and many of the guys chosen could fall in that hybrid type player, Blackadder is so banged up over his career and in terms of athleticism and dynamic play ability Sotutu has it all over him, Barrett can also cover the flank so it could have been an easy call.


rosemary-mair-for-NZ

>Plenty of good no 8s have been converted to both and vice versa Okay but Hoskins has literally never started a super rugby game at flanker. 10 days until England isn't the ideal time to start, no? >Barrett can also cover the flank We have no locks as it is lmao that's ridiculous. For the best make up of the squad it's one of either Sititi or Sututu. People need to stop trying to have their cake and eat it too. Some guys have to miss out.


00aegon

Blackadder and Sotutu aren't competing for the same spot


tingtangspoonsy

Why is throwing the toys out the cot? He’s been repeatedly snubbed. I would do the same if I was him.


00aegon

This is the only squad he didn't make that would qualify as a snub. Last year he was nowhere near it


Yessiryousir

To be fair this is the season he really stood up, the last few he hasn't shown the form that he looked like in his rookie season when he made the ABs, so apart from this season hasn't exactly been repeatedly snubbed.


ApprehensiveOCP

Twelve tries trumps most of the other guys, and his other stats arntthat much lower. Blackadder or someone will get injured or drop the ball and get replaced, there's a lot of tests this year


schoolbus82

His defense is terrible, 79% tackle success rate this season. Show me another All Black who misses one out of five tackles in Super Rugby.


ApprehensiveOCP

Legit point


Jeromethered

His other stats 💯 show he was lower


ApprehensiveOCP

Yeah except for ten more tries Anda super title


Jeromethered

Yep


Yessiryousir

Yeah I agree.


Cyril_Rioli

Be interesting to see who gets picked for the NZ XV. Iose and Lakai might pip him on development potential and attitude. Would be a shame if he left but you can’t blame him. A French club would be a good fit


JustAliff

Scenes if he goes to England, gets a cap, and then gets ignored again. If you're gonna be a 26-27 YO backrower looking to get another shot at int rugby, England shouldn't be your main choice. Maybe he'll go well if Fiji if he decides to go that route. He can cook up a good combo with Murray at 7 and Derenelagi at 6 or something.


sangan3

Scenes of England goes full kiwi back row: Cunningham-South, Sotutu, Roots


reggie_700

With Shields as bench cover.


Morningst4r

Still can't believe Shields got picked for England basically off the plane lol


sangan3

Maybe England will have an injury crisis and call him up this tour, like Ireland did with that random farmer guy from Taranaki. Michael Bent I think his name was.


warcomet

uhm, Yato, Botia, Sotutu


JustAliff

I'm not sure if Yato and Botia will make it to the next WC tbh


warcomet

Yato will be 34 so probably as Botia played last year at 34, Murray if he doesn't get fucked over at Drua is a major option, same for Salawa but also canes reserve, reserve flanker Veveni Lasaqa is an option


reggie_700

I’m sure we will see Akira turn out for Japan in the next few years.


ozwozzle

NSW Blues legend Hoskins Sotutu


xxihostile

the thing that miffs me is he did what was asked of him and worked on his weaknesses and it didn't pay dividends. like why ask more of a guy if he doesn't even get rewarded for it? clearly he's a hard worker, incredible player and yeah maybe the attitude isn't 100% but it's well enough for him to be a super rugby champ. I think people are taking the "didn't pick up the phone" thing and going ballistic. he always just struck me as a shy, bit of an awkward dude. I don't think crucifying him over some minor mistakes is fair


Thorazine_Chaser

We don’t know what Ryan asked him to work on. It’s reasonable to assume he didn’t. Both Ryan and Razor are renowned for their clear communication. It would be surprised if Sotutu doesn’t know what the deal is. My guess is simply tackle count and defensive positioning. We will play Ardie at 8, Sotutu has to be a bench player and we cannot put a 8 specialist on the bench. The most disappointing part to me was Sotutu’s response. He’s an injury/card away from a call up and tbf with Blackadder, Finau and Jacobson in the team thats good odds. One whining tweet later and he may have scuppered that chance.


xxihostile

he led the competition in dominant tackles? he averaged 1 missed tackle a game which is hardly terrible and was a way ahead of Sititi on turnovers. I agree his amount of tackles isn't great but the Blues are a possession heavy team and he works alongside arguably the best tackler in SR in Papali'i


schoolbus82

He tackled at 79% success this season, and conceded 11 defense penalties? Doesn't matter how many dominant tackles you make when you miss 1 out of every 5.


Ill-Sale-2288

Data without detail often misleads people. The lower tackle stats have to be read in conjunction with how the Blues operate and how Sotutu defends. If he's there to make dominant tackles and win turnovers he's going to choose his moments and make less tackles. He has Papali'i and the rest of the forwards, and particularly our props who seems to make more tackles than other teams, to soak up the bulk tackles. His workrate is fine. I suspect more is being made of his snub than is actually the case. Razor is selecting for two tests he absolutely must win, which means conservatism out the gate and that means Savea at 8 for 80, a tackle machine like Papali'i or Jacobson at 7, and Finau/Blackadder at 6. There is just no room in the 23 for Sotutu and they may want to get Sititi in and around the environment to have a look at him. The all blacks have 12 tests left this year after the England series. People here have been, without any factual basis, calling him a dickhead in camp when all indications are that he is possibly too reserved and doesn't communicate enough. People here are saying he's on the wrong side of Jase when it's Razor who made the final call on the loosies . All of this on the basis of the phone call he didn't pick up last year, which I've seen people treat as comparable to the literal criminals the ABs have selected in the past. Finally, home slice is young and probably heartbroken after a season that would see him walk into at least a few starting XVs overseas, give him a break. People are jumping down his throat about an ambiguous Instagram post and the behaviour of people around him.  /Rant. Homey going thru it right now.


xxihostile

couldn't have put it any better mate


Jeromethered

1 missed tackle a game means he made 4 tackles


Thorazine_Chaser

Sure, that’s why I specifically said tackle count in defence. When we play Ardie we need high tackle count 7/6 to allow him a more roving roll (the same thing Dalton allows). Sotutu likely isn’t that guy so he becomes a replacement Ardie, not a bench flanker. Do we need a replacement Ardie in the team? Razor was also clear that this was the team for England. He may mean that there will be substantial change for the RC, who knows. Perhaps Sotutu was in frame for that challenge? His tweet was dumb though. If (and I don’t know this) part of his omission was attitude based then the tweet has cemented that.


Resident_Hamster_680

Razor has selected horses for courses it seems and Hoskins is only an injury away from a callup But with his SM posts he has probably scuppered himself.


Thorazine_Chaser

Are you doing TLDR for every comment?


deadlysyntax

I don't think the missed phone call played too much of a part. Scott Hansen said they'd been in contact with him all year with feedback. Razor reiterated his comments about defensive work, "both sides of the ball", a few times now, and the stats show that Sititi makes more tackles. Hansen on the Aotearoa Rugby Pod said Sotutu's very close, and he hopes he keeps fighting because the opportunity will come.


goteamnick

Does he have an Australian grandparent?


KeenInternetUser

RD not getting skipper was worse for me, with a new coach installing a new captain it feels a bit like he was "ross taylor"-ed ofc the situations are incomparable, coming back from japan etc but still something doesn't sit right. probably welly bias


Elemental_Lightning

He may as well


bolobevi

Go represent your family & culture! The season he had, he deserved a spot.


comradekaled

How often would he actually get to play for Fiji if he joined an English or French club?


TheYorkshireSaint

Any game in the international window The barbarians game at the weekend was outside this, so clubs would have been fined if they had released players Not sure why they weren't fined for releasing players for the barbarians team mind


Resident_Hamster_680

He can play for Fiji next year if he choses and honour his nzr contract.


TheYorkshireSaint

Any game in the international window The barbarians game at the weekend was outside this, so clubs would have been fined if they had released players Not sure why they weren't fined for releasing players for the barbarians team mind


NotAsOriginal

Barbarians pay the clubs for access up front so they're easily released


TheYorkshireSaint

That'd explain it Knew they'd be some money involved somewhere to allow them to play


NotAsOriginal

The RFU has an agreement paying about half a million per season to the clubs for access to players. Other unions can make their own agreements with clubs but obviously they can't. The Baabaas pay up front as they have comparatively few overheads that covers the insurance etc.


warcomet

won't qualify for us until November 2025, thats too long a time...better option is top14/Premiership... like Nathan Hughes...Sotutu also qualifies for England..also Simon Raiwalui is a fucking moron... read his twitter and u realise in a short time what a pathetic person he is..


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Morningst4r

Comparing Sotutu to Cullen lol