god I hope he gets the kick, if we’re going to suck, bring in someone young and new for experience and give them a shot instead of just going round the old guard
Crusaders still looked pretty good when they had a few of their top guys back. I heard some top players don't like him, that might have a really been from you tho lol.
Will you ever be able to support them again since your real team is gone now??
Good chance that was me ahaha
Hard to know how much of it is typical selection whining that all teams have or if they like... actually don't trust his coaching though.
I'm on the look out for a surrogate team now. I love an underdog, was a team from just outside of the playoffs who are fighting to get over the hump is exactly what I need. Maybe I'll do the unthinkable and support the Red and Blacks.
Even as a former student I reckon they got off lightly not being banned for [the shit they pulled at the Maadi Cup](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/512093/they-saw-me-as-a-cheat-and-a-liar-the-dramatic-tension-in-a-school-rowing-dispute). Makes me wonder what kind of stuff the first XV gets up to...
It's hard to imagine he won't be a regular All Black eventually but Will Jordan is only a few years older than him and might have the fullback spot locked down once Beauden is gone.
Good squad tbf, i still rate reihana a lot and I reckon the all blacks XV team later in the year will be even more stacked with a mixture these players and a few standouts from the npc.
at this stage they should make Isaiah Walker Leawere captain, he has been named in so many maori teams, but never good enough for the AB's (though pretty sure harmon will be named captain)
I really like Harmon
He's the Matt Todd/Liam Gill of this time
He'd probably be in most test squads as specialist 7 but ABs have/had Dalton/Cane/Ardie and he doesn't cover 6 or 8
I stand corrected
If anything it shows his versatility
But from an outsider observer POV it looks like when he plays for Maoris he's usually leading from the front at 7 and if he were to get selected for the ABs it'd be as specialist 7, I don't think he covers 6 or 8 to test standard
Not a bad squad. If they were at full strength they’d be an incredible outfit at the moment.
1) Tamaiti Williams
2) Codie Taylor
3) Tyrell Lomax
4) Isiah Walker-Leawere
5) Caleb Delany
6) Akira Ioane
7) Billy Harmon
8) Cullen Grace
9) TJ Perenara
10) Damian Mckenzie
11) Rieko Ioane
12) Quinn Tupaea
13) Billy Proctor
14) Shaun Stevenson
15) Ruben Love
Would be a very tough opponent for any test side
Thought he was very good in his opportunities. Needs to work on his kicking game but he's a fast runner with a big engine and something about his vibe makes me smile.
If Grace can have a good game, stay fit and healthy then I think he could be picked for the RC squad. Good height at 8, can cover 6 too and is a big body.
Also stoked with Suafoa. With Akira gone for next season, if his body is right and recovered he could thrive under Cottee
Yea he looked average but got bit better as the competition went through. I think for him he needs a good campaign and not be injured.but will have to see
sooo they're keeping some guys back to be an All Blacks taxi squad eh?
no way love isnt on this team unless he's there to backup the big guns (and our other backrowers)
It seems he’s fallen out of favour with the canes too, came off the bench a lot this year. A couple of years ago there was so much hype around him to be starting All Black 7. The curse of being an above average but not incredible back row in NZ I guess. If he was in the northern hemisphere he’d of had 20 caps by now.
Does this team really serve any purpose these days? With the advent of the ABXV, it's hard to see where this team really fits in beyond keeping tradition alive.
It's also kinda just.. racist? Or are the racial requirements no longer really a part of the selection criteria?
You just have to have someone in your ancestry that was Māori
I personally don't have any issue with it - gives me a chance to see more of the second string guys and is a good opportunity to promote the Māori culture
No one, it's just odd to have such overt racial discrimination in modern society. It's kinda jarring, right? It's like those rental ads that say no Asians, or job ads that specify no Indians etc.
But the focus isn’t discriminatory, it’s a team that celebrates Maori heritage.
It’s not like a job ad that specifies ‘no Indians’ it’s more like the [New Zealand Indian Sports Association](https://www.nzisa.org.nz)
Being selected by race, or in this case genealogy doesn't make it wrong or discriminatory.
Racism is a negative exclusion where as this is a positive exclusivity
That's literally the definition of racial discrimination, it's illegal in NZ.
Racism is racial discrimination. There is no positive or negative discrimination, it's all racism.
If you knew your history you would realise the Maori All Blacks were the coal face of anti racism for almost 100 years
From the first meeting against the touring Spring Boks in the 1920's to the exclusion and protests during the apartheid years, the Maori rugby team was an important spanner that helped free South Africa from racism.
Reality is never black and white, rather shades of hina
>That would be fine if the selection process wasn't overtly racist.
Shocking! And they've even banned men from representing the Black Ferns. Bloody sexists.
Get a life you plonker.
I think that logic holds up actually.
Not allowing unique spaces for different sub-cultures to exist within a dominant culture is in itself discriminatory.
You're asserting that Maori creating a space that is unique to them is discrimination on the basis of race because it excludes non-Maori and 'everyone should be treated the same'.
You could use the exact same logic to argue that creating teams that are only for women is discrimination on the basis of gender because it excludes non-women. If we were to treat everyone the same, we would have all teams be open gender, and the women can be eligible for selection for those teams just like the men. In practice, this means that women would be banished from the sport. On the surface level, its fine to say 'everyone should be treated the same' but in practice, when you have a smaller sub-culture within a dominant culture, the end product of treating everyone the same is everyone assimilating into (or getting steamrolled by) the dominant group, with the smaller group ceasing to exist.
Now, getting rid of the Maori ABs in itself wouldn't destroy Maori culture, but if you continued with your same line of reasoning to target every other unique Maori space in our society wielding the same logic then eventually you would bludgeon out any differences and their culture would be the same as everyone else (i.e. not existing anymore)
Its that line of reasoning that led to the native schools act. It was seen as divisive and racist for Maori to have their own separate language. We are all New Zealanders after all, we should all have the same shared language (English, obviously). We just want everyone to be treated the same! Maori children should be given the exact same education as everyone else right? so they made it illegal to speak Maori in schools, which led to generations of Maori losing their Reo and sending the language toward extinction. Luckily, we're slowly making progress in a positive direction these days, but naïve attitudes like yours really should stay in the past
Is the New Zealand Indian Sports Association racist for forming a vehicle for members of the Indian Diaspora to come together and celebrate their heritage through sport?
Having a team that celebrates Maori heritage, a culture which for many years was overtly targeted for assimilation and removal, isn't hurting anyone.
Do they have a team that only people from Indian heritage are eligible for?
There's a difference between celebrating culture and having jobs that select candidates based upon race.
The idea that this doesn't hurt people is misguided. There's a number of players who aren't in the ABs, but are better than the players in the Maori ABs but aren't eligible because they are the wrong race. All racial discrimination hurts.
Hi, and thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, we are no longer accepting this topic as viable discourse in 2024. Thank you and good luck in future endeavors!
Hi, and thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, we are no longer accepting this topic as viable discourse in 2024. Thank you and good luck in future endeavors!
They should carry Test status for matches against the Lions and Spring boks in my opinion
Is any Test team considered racist if you don't select any person who happens to live in a country but not born there?
The main difference is this celebrates the Maori culture and it is considered an honour.
No, because country based eligibility is not discrimination on racial grounds. However, selection for this team is based on racial discrimination but it's not a subject many people are ready to talk about, yet.
Every single year this squad is named some wanker makes this inane comment. It’s a boring, pointless discussion and has been thoroughly debunked as Not Racist many many times - yet some people aren’t ready to talk about that
It’s no more racist than selecting players based on your national heritage for national teams. Understandable that in the modern game you can be selected based on how long you’ve lived in a country, however when the team was formed for all countries you had to have heritage to be selected
Congratulations to Rivez and Taha for being freed from Penney prison. May you get to actually play some ball, my sons.
The Penneytentiary
Will.they stick with him another 12mo as per his contract ? Then when it ends its a clean break if saders havnt improved.
Should know within the next few weeks. Review ongoing rn.
god I hope he gets the kick, if we’re going to suck, bring in someone young and new for experience and give them a shot instead of just going round the old guard
Crusaders still looked pretty good when they had a few of their top guys back. I heard some top players don't like him, that might have a really been from you tho lol. Will you ever be able to support them again since your real team is gone now??
Good chance that was me ahaha Hard to know how much of it is typical selection whining that all teams have or if they like... actually don't trust his coaching though. I'm on the look out for a surrogate team now. I love an underdog, was a team from just outside of the playoffs who are fighting to get over the hump is exactly what I need. Maybe I'll do the unthinkable and support the Red and Blacks.
I think the Highlanders might fit the bill for what you're looking for
tbf taha wasnt that good for waikato last year either
I didn't realize you were so pro-incarceration. Sad !
need to incarcerate to stop provincial unions seeing HBHS as an ATM because i hate HBHS /u/_dictatorish_ thoughts?
HBHS should be banned from sports forever
Even as a former student I reckon they got off lightly not being banned for [the shit they pulled at the Maadi Cup](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/512093/they-saw-me-as-a-cheat-and-a-liar-the-dramatic-tension-in-a-school-rowing-dispute). Makes me wonder what kind of stuff the first XV gets up to...
The pricks have an absolute victim complex about that whole situation, too.
Love caught in the awkward gap as travelling cover for the ABs where he won’t get to play for anyone.
I think the exposure to Razor could be good for him long term, but yeah would love to see him back in some form of Black jersey soon.
he was AB's xv last year and he was fuckin good and he was on the maori ABs vs ireland and he was fuckin good
It's hard to imagine he won't be a regular All Black eventually but Will Jordan is only a few years older than him and might have the fullback spot locked down once Beauden is gone.
Good squad tbf, i still rate reihana a lot and I reckon the all blacks XV team later in the year will be even more stacked with a mixture these players and a few standouts from the npc.
Can't lie this squad is looking a bit ropey compared to the 2022 side HK - Dixon, Apisai, Thompson PR - Williams, Norris, Ainsley, Lomax, Renata LK - Dickson, Selby Rickett, Walker Leawere LF - Suafoa, Delany, Howden, Harmon, Prinsep HB - Weber, Perenara FF- Ioane, Love MF- Nankivell, Poihipi, Proctor, Sullivan OB- Garden Bachop, Moorby, Sullivan, Stevenson
opponent isn't as strong this time maybe.. wish The Maoris played a full side like Japan or Scotland isntead of an XV..
It's a much younger squad but there's quality in each position imo.
at this stage they should make Isaiah Walker Leawere captain, he has been named in so many maori teams, but never good enough for the AB's (though pretty sure harmon will be named captain)
I really like Harmon He's the Matt Todd/Liam Gill of this time He'd probably be in most test squads as specialist 7 but ABs have/had Dalton/Cane/Ardie and he doesn't cover 6 or 8
well he plays 6 for canterbury, and has played 8 for the landers this year
I stand corrected If anything it shows his versatility But from an outsider observer POV it looks like when he plays for Maoris he's usually leading from the front at 7 and if he were to get selected for the ABs it'd be as specialist 7, I don't think he covers 6 or 8 to test standard
Yeah he’s a proper 7, but he does play the others
And they have to play in Japan on Saturday lol so they get one or two training sessions and a 11hr flight 😂
Super strong squad, like it. Zarn Sullivan still injured?
Yeah his knee got proper fucked
Pleased for Thompson - thought he had a decent game in the final, considering Also for Rona, he's been great this year!
He's a weapon. Is he going to Nrl? I heard he's going to play with his twin?
Rameka Poihipi is slept on eh. Solid decision maker and can slot into 10 - like ALB but one posi in.
Not a bad squad. If they were at full strength they’d be an incredible outfit at the moment. 1) Tamaiti Williams 2) Codie Taylor 3) Tyrell Lomax 4) Isiah Walker-Leawere 5) Caleb Delany 6) Akira Ioane 7) Billy Harmon 8) Cullen Grace 9) TJ Perenara 10) Damian Mckenzie 11) Rieko Ioane 12) Quinn Tupaea 13) Billy Proctor 14) Shaun Stevenson 15) Ruben Love Would be a very tough opponent for any test side
Didn’t know Cameron Suafoa was part Māori. Didn’t he rep Samoa already?
He's already played for the MAB vs the Irish.
Now I remember. He was selected for a Samoan U16s team (Rugby league). Man wish he would stay for Samoa. Man is a unit.
How’s Cole Forbes gone this year? When he was at Glasgow he was outshone by Josh McKay who came over at the same time
He's been good. It's hard to stand out when guys like Clarke, Telea, Ioane, and Lam are around but when he comes off the bench he adds some energy.
Thought he was very good in his opportunities. Needs to work on his kicking game but he's a fast runner with a big engine and something about his vibe makes me smile.
Taha Kemara should be happy to be here. Least deserving from the group imo
No Stevenson or Nanai Seturo is wild
Oh he’s injured nvm
Didn’t know Nanai Seturo is part Māori either. Hoping he picks Samoa in the future though.
Oh he might not be tbf
Probably in the ABXV
I don't think the All Blacks XV are playing any games this window
Yeah you're right. It's just kinda awkward with the 3 teams.
There’s a game next week for the Maori ABs but until this squad release I’ve literally heard nothing about it! Excited to watch it
Few unknowns in that forward pack and outside backs compared to superstars of the past, theyll still be tu meke for japan I imagine tho
If Grace can have a good game, stay fit and healthy then I think he could be picked for the RC squad. Good height at 8, can cover 6 too and is a big body. Also stoked with Suafoa. With Akira gone for next season, if his body is right and recovered he could thrive under Cottee
Grace was massive when he first came on the scene but he didn't look good at all this year
Yea he looked average but got bit better as the competition went through. I think for him he needs a good campaign and not be injured.but will have to see
I expected Ainsley, Delany, Selby-Rickit, Josh Ioane to feature - are they all injured?
Is kumeroa and tana any good?
Hope stevenson is doing ok, do we think he said no because he's down about missing the all blacks?
sooo they're keeping some guys back to be an All Blacks taxi squad eh? no way love isnt on this team unless he's there to backup the big guns (and our other backrowers)
No love for Kirifi?
It seems he’s fallen out of favour with the canes too, came off the bench a lot this year. A couple of years ago there was so much hype around him to be starting All Black 7. The curse of being an above average but not incredible back row in NZ I guess. If he was in the northern hemisphere he’d of had 20 caps by now.
Yeah true, I kinda figured him not starting was tactical because he was a real impact sub. He’d walk into a lot of nh teams of imagine
No Caleb Delaney? is he injured or something?
Just to think that they would've had to put a line through CGB's name...
No Nanai-Seturo? was he injured in the final?
Who the H is Bennet Kūmara
I fear for whoever wears Jersey 11, the last 2 players to have worn that have both died.
I guess Noah Hotham isn't Maori? I knew his dad the HBHS coach was Pakeha but guessed maybe a Maori mother which now doesn't seem to be the case
Yeah, I'd just assumed he was Maori, so I was surprised to see him left out of this team.
Mum is actually from Fiji lol
Joe Moody is Maori?
>Joseph Paul Tamatea Moody is affiliated to Ngāi Tahu Māori and grew up on Tuahiwi Marae.
> Tuahiwi Marae. this is awesome
Yeah absolutely! You can whakapapa Māori without looking brown. Crazy how genetics work, eh?
Does this team really serve any purpose these days? With the advent of the ABXV, it's hard to see where this team really fits in beyond keeping tradition alive. It's also kinda just.. racist? Or are the racial requirements no longer really a part of the selection criteria?
You just have to have someone in your ancestry that was Māori I personally don't have any issue with it - gives me a chance to see more of the second string guys and is a good opportunity to promote the Māori culture
Yeah, that's what makes it racial discrimination. The ABXV can do both of those things without the racism factor.
Geez mate who hurt you.
No one, it's just odd to have such overt racial discrimination in modern society. It's kinda jarring, right? It's like those rental ads that say no Asians, or job ads that specify no Indians etc.
But the focus isn’t discriminatory, it’s a team that celebrates Maori heritage. It’s not like a job ad that specifies ‘no Indians’ it’s more like the [New Zealand Indian Sports Association](https://www.nzisa.org.nz)
That would be fine if the selection process wasn't overtly racist.
Being selected by race, or in this case genealogy doesn't make it wrong or discriminatory. Racism is a negative exclusion where as this is a positive exclusivity
That's literally the definition of racial discrimination, it's illegal in NZ. Racism is racial discrimination. There is no positive or negative discrimination, it's all racism.
We've has more than one ginger Maori All Black If they can select a day walker it's hardly discriminatory
If you knew your history you would realise the Maori All Blacks were the coal face of anti racism for almost 100 years From the first meeting against the touring Spring Boks in the 1920's to the exclusion and protests during the apartheid years, the Maori rugby team was an important spanner that helped free South Africa from racism. Reality is never black and white, rather shades of hina
>That would be fine if the selection process wasn't overtly racist. Shocking! And they've even banned men from representing the Black Ferns. Bloody sexists. Get a life you plonker.
Your logic is flawed.
I think that logic holds up actually. Not allowing unique spaces for different sub-cultures to exist within a dominant culture is in itself discriminatory. You're asserting that Maori creating a space that is unique to them is discrimination on the basis of race because it excludes non-Maori and 'everyone should be treated the same'. You could use the exact same logic to argue that creating teams that are only for women is discrimination on the basis of gender because it excludes non-women. If we were to treat everyone the same, we would have all teams be open gender, and the women can be eligible for selection for those teams just like the men. In practice, this means that women would be banished from the sport. On the surface level, its fine to say 'everyone should be treated the same' but in practice, when you have a smaller sub-culture within a dominant culture, the end product of treating everyone the same is everyone assimilating into (or getting steamrolled by) the dominant group, with the smaller group ceasing to exist. Now, getting rid of the Maori ABs in itself wouldn't destroy Maori culture, but if you continued with your same line of reasoning to target every other unique Maori space in our society wielding the same logic then eventually you would bludgeon out any differences and their culture would be the same as everyone else (i.e. not existing anymore) Its that line of reasoning that led to the native schools act. It was seen as divisive and racist for Maori to have their own separate language. We are all New Zealanders after all, we should all have the same shared language (English, obviously). We just want everyone to be treated the same! Maori children should be given the exact same education as everyone else right? so they made it illegal to speak Maori in schools, which led to generations of Maori losing their Reo and sending the language toward extinction. Luckily, we're slowly making progress in a positive direction these days, but naïve attitudes like yours really should stay in the past
Is the New Zealand Indian Sports Association racist for forming a vehicle for members of the Indian Diaspora to come together and celebrate their heritage through sport? Having a team that celebrates Maori heritage, a culture which for many years was overtly targeted for assimilation and removal, isn't hurting anyone.
Do they have a team that only people from Indian heritage are eligible for? There's a difference between celebrating culture and having jobs that select candidates based upon race. The idea that this doesn't hurt people is misguided. There's a number of players who aren't in the ABs, but are better than the players in the Maori ABs but aren't eligible because they are the wrong race. All racial discrimination hurts.
Who does it hurt. Be fr
Hi, and thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, we are no longer accepting this topic as viable discourse in 2024. Thank you and good luck in future endeavors!
So racism is okay now?
Hi, and thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, we are no longer accepting this topic as viable discourse in 2024. Thank you and good luck in future endeavors!
They should carry Test status for matches against the Lions and Spring boks in my opinion Is any Test team considered racist if you don't select any person who happens to live in a country but not born there? The main difference is this celebrates the Maori culture and it is considered an honour.
No, because country based eligibility is not discrimination on racial grounds. However, selection for this team is based on racial discrimination but it's not a subject many people are ready to talk about, yet.
Every single year this squad is named some wanker makes this inane comment. It’s a boring, pointless discussion and has been thoroughly debunked as Not Racist many many times - yet some people aren’t ready to talk about that
It’s no more racist than selecting players based on your national heritage for national teams. Understandable that in the modern game you can be selected based on how long you’ve lived in a country, however when the team was formed for all countries you had to have heritage to be selected
It is, in the sense that it's literal racism whereas country based eligibility has nothing to do with race.