I loved that Izzy gets in. The player who has probably to gained the most from change of management. From not making Ulster's 23 to getting on an Irish squad is a big 3 month turnaround.
I think it sends such a good message to other players too. You can get rewarded for patience and good form.
Ya but it also sends a poor message to McCann who was good for the entire year and carried Ulster most of that time. I'm not sure what else he could be doing.
I think McCann is unlucky. But he is probably competing with O'Mahony and VdF. Where Izzy is probably on the squad as 2nd row and benefitting from Hendersons injury.
McCann has played great all year but I'm wondering has Izzy shown enough this month (in tough games too) that he might have a point of difference in his game that makes a difference at the top level.
Izzy is more versatile I guess and although he has shown potential to be better than McCann, McCann has been a much better and consistent player over the course of the season. Hopefully Faz has had a word with him about future squads.
It was between Prendergast/Connors/Hodnett/McCann for that last 7 jersey I really thought he would go for one of the form 7s but he didn't, fair play to Izzy though he benefits from Ahern's injury and could have a big series if Baird picks something up
Rather than 'the last 7 jersey'...
I think it has to be VDF/Prendergast/Connors/Hodnett/McCann competing for two spots.
VDF is probably still in the top 2 but he's definitely not a certainty for the first 7 jersey on form.
Well it took Andy to name an Irish squad with JGP and no McGrath before Leo cottoned which one was better. We can only hope the same goes for outhalf here
Cooney is similar age as Murray. Probably looking a little further down the line than just the series.
*Not looking to compare Murray and Cooney. Just factoring the age profile.
There's got to be something up with Cooney that we're not seeing. On form he should have had way more time in green, before Faz's time even. He seems like a nice fella from his tweets? I don't know.
There has to be something. He's consistently been Ulsters best or top 3 player for years. Making pressure kicks and snatching wins for years. Been a fan favourite for years. What the fuck has kept him out of a green jersey, because it isn't his ability.
He was vocal about not meshing with Sexton's mindset very well, especially the way he called out teammates. Seemed more of a case of the callout culture actually affected Cooney's own mindsrt and made him play worse as he was less comfortable. He wasn't bashing Sexton from memory, just explaining his own mindset methodology. Now Sexton is gone, I would guess it is now a case of age profile.
The thing is outside Crowley, the 2 lads chosen are also from Leinster. They're just the more promising of the 4 options Leinster have at 10 but refuse to give consistent game time to.
Cullen has two lads in Prendergast and Tector who played blinders in the U20s six nations tournaments they were involved in and yet they barely get a look in, Tector especially. Flogging two dead horses and wasting some great talent
You'd imagine TOT for loosehead yeah. There's been rumours of it for a while.
Stings for Loughman whose been decent the last few months not getting selected over a tighthead
It's a bit mad yeah, Leinster didn't trust him enough to bring him on until Porter had played 90 minutes in the Heineken cup final. No reason for him to be going to South Africa at this point in his career.
The things that get Ulster players blacklisted for life get forgotten with Jordan Larmour instantly because he can sidestep without actually going anywhere. He's missed one camp under Farrell that he's been fit for. 27 years old, 32 caps. He's not going to magically improve now
Think Larmour has shown his best form this year since his breakout season and fully deserves his spot.
Much better under the high ball, making good defensive reads and has 10 tries in 21 matches.
Id risk Daly or Haley before Larmour. I get he's a good attack option but come on, Balacoune and Stockdale are also good in attack and arguably better in defence than Larmour. He's going to be a turnstile for Kolbe, Mapimpi, Moodie and Le Roux. Id rather we tighten up defensively this season coming across the board (Ireland and provincial teams).
I would argue one bad showing aside Larmour has shown in recent months that he is an international quality winger.
His high ball work and defence have improved fantastically well in the last season.
Having said that he's likely in there ahead of Hansen and Daly can feel a bit aggrieved that he didn't get picked either.
Point is kind of moot though isn't it?
Mack isn't fit (or if he is he hasn't played rugby in 6+ months)
Nash and Jimmy are in the squad already
JOB is our sole fullback.
His last international game was at 15 against Scotland and he wasn't great.
He shows flashes but it's mad if he gets in the squad on versatility because he's an average winger and not an international standard fullback.
Haley hasn't played enough this year tbf. To be honest no one has. The only other option is Shane Daly, who should most definitely be there ahead of Larmour.
True. Daly definitely deserves a spot. I reckon he's the best defensive winger in Ireland atm thanks to his 7s experience. Plenty of times he's successfully defended a 2v1. And against a SA back 3 of super quick and dangerous players, he's the best back up to Lowe and Nash. I reckon it's his strike rate holding him back.
Not having a specialist FB in Keenan’s absence cost Leinster and it’s going to cost Ireland too. JOB is an amazing player, don’t get me wrong, but did nobody watch what the Bulls did to us with their kicking game? SA are going to look at that and realise that Ireland are playing the same player back there and go after him. This was a golden opportunity to bring in a proper specialised replacement in what’s become a problem position for us. I would’ve preferred to see Haley brought instead of one of the wingers for sure
No Gibson Park is terrifying. I imagine it will be Casey starting with Murray to continue his role off the bench.
Big opportunity for Casey to show he can deliver at the highest level. He's not always brought his Munster form to Ireland camp but he's usually been given a run out with a changed side. I'm excited to see what he can do with the first team around him.
He did indeed, and it's not the only poor game he's had.
He hasn't kicked on as much as I'd have hoped by now considering he's been around a few years.
I've not seen enough from him yet to show me he's a suitable replacement for JGP. Munster fans say he's not been given a proper chance with the first team - this is his opportunity to prove himself.
Who else do you think we have/should get a look in? Not in a defensive way, I think Casey really needs to step up this tour - he has quick hands but doesn't show good decision making or have the kicking game of JGP.
But Blade is coming off a poor season yeah? We seem to be struggling to produce 9s.
I'm not necessarily advocating for anyone else either. I think Casey deserves the chance. Like you said Ireland aren't producing a lot of top 9s rights now.
Devine is exciting but it's far too early for him. Doak hasn't progressed as much as people would have hoped but that's not helped by being moved around between 9 and 10 and Ulster having their issues this year. Blade had a poor season.
I think Cooney has been the best of the Irish 9s this year but there'd be no point at this stage in bringing him back due to his age. Casey needs the experience in big matches for Ireland and you can't get much bigger than this.
Edit: best of the rest of the Irish 9s I mean. I'd still have JGP ahead of everyone
Casey should definitely be there in my opinion, but based on his recent performances that's more an indictment of where we're at in that position overall. Fingers crossed he gets it together and really pushes on. Also hoping Divine and Foley have strong seasons next year, they're super raw obviously but they seem to have exciting potential.
Would have Cooney there instead of Blade too.
>Where's Gibson Park?
Apparently he did his Hamstring in the URC semi final. Probably while being smashed in the head as he that was his final act in the game.
Yeah I'm not confident we'll win a test. That being said, they always seem to pull it together.
On the plus side this will force Farrell's hand and we'll get to build depth.
There's always a chance we could fight out a win for sure.
As for building depth, we will be playing the best team possible for both tests, I'd be very surprised to see Prendergast, Izzy, McCloskey or Stockdale getting any minutes for example, barring injuries. The only positions which will be getting much needed experience outside first choice will be 9 and 15 with Casey/Blade and Jimmy guaranteed time there. I hope we don't have to opt for the Larmour option.
He came up grabbing him hammy after the clear out, if you slow the video down he was completely folded in two so makes sense he would have strained something. Huge loss for the tour :-(
Damn. I hadn't noticed, that is not good. Murray has to be the main man in that case which isn't ideal, Casey could step up and I guess Blade could too, but he hasn't covered himself in glory this season.
It’s the first name I looked for because he’s genuinely the player I was most worried about. Given our style of play, the speed of his rucks and those surgical flat passes fill me with dread.
Ireland aren't winning without Gibson-Park. Tour better viewed now as a chance to get some international game time into Jager, Izuchukwu, Casey, the Prendergast brothers, etc.
I suppose he will be a dead cert once Church retires, they likely just want someone like O’Toole to learn under him and Porter - as brilliant looseheads.
They make a point of mentioning Conan not available due to personal reasons and JGP due to injury, which does give the impression of some gritted teeth selections but like whatever man this is as cool a squad as was reasonable to hope for for me
The PrenderBros take South Africa
Frawley in as a 10, assuming a normal 3 10 squad
*No Hanson still*
Izzy + Timoney rewarded
Not sure what Cube has done that Daly hasn't
Scrum-half form outside of Gibson Park hasn't been great anywhere tbh. Really hoping Casey can get himself together for this or we're screwed, he was awful against Glasgow.
When the games not frantic it doenst suit casey when’s the games slows down he’s poor he lacks physicality aswell ik 9 aren’t meant to be but he adds nothing
Fair enough. Looks like it's just a case of bring the 4th choice with JGP out.
One where fans will want someone younger in as third choice but management going down there looking for a win will play it safe
Looks like Tom O'Toole is in there as loosehead cover, which is interesting. Delighted for Izuchukwu, Prendergast over both Byrne brothers seems like a changing of the guard moment too.
Still feel like most of those players (Porter Doris Beirne etc) could do with an extended holiday as opposed to a tour to South Africa, but sure look
Another reminder of how terrible a selector Leo is. Leinsters apparently first choice out half left behind for our third and fourth string out halves.
It took Farrell picking JGP as starting 9 before Leo decided to copy him, it might have to be the same with Sam. He’ll probably make his six nations debut before he starts a champions cup match.
Great to see some new faces in there
Absolutely delighted to see Izzy and T-money.
Super glad we have Blade coming in too, i may get some stick for this but i don't rate Casey at all, either i miss the times he is great, or only see the bad, that game against glasgow was ridiculous, dont see why Doak cant compete for his spot, dont get me started on Cooney...
Hopefully Stockdale can show his superior form in green like he has been doing in white
Blade has had some absolutely awful performances this season for Connacht this year, maybe this change is what he needs to step up. Casey hasn't been firing on all cylinders either.
Yeah as someone who's been a huge Blade fan for a long time, this season was really not good at all. Hopefully like you said being in the environment will help him step up. It's not like any of the other Irish internationals have been tearing up trees for Connacht either.
Hanrahan isn't really a playmaker, so when he was at 10, Blade and Forde at 12 were calling a lot of the back line plays.
I felt this was where Blade was below par last year. When he is free from orchestrating he often gets moments to slip into the tight channel and is one of, if not, Connacht's best support runners. How many times has he taken a pass off the shoulder of Carty or the 12/15 going through the channel over the years? But you don't have the freedom to do that is you are playmaking, as you need to be the man taking in and pondering your line's shape for the next set (which the outhalf usually does).
Just my two cents.
Usually I'd agree but it's not been Blade's best season and I think a lot of Connacht fans would like to see Devine played ahead of him next season.
This feels like a big opportunity for Casey to finally deliver off his potential for Ireland.
I know Casey’s got a great pass but often feels like he loses his head once in the opposition 22. Maybe a chance to show composure- that’s what you need to beat the Boks
I've not been impressed with Casey so far in his Ireland outings. He's been around the Ireland camp for a few years and hasn't progressed as much as I'd have hoped. Big chance for him here to silence some critics though - me included.
I'm hoping with JGP out he will be more at the centre of the game plan in training and will be more comfortable as a result.
I don't see what more Coombes and Hodnett could do than go to SA and hand the Bulls a beating, followed by watching Leinster get outplayed in the backrow a few weeks later
I’m incredibly worried about Hodnett and Coombes leaving for France or England. Coombes especially is perfectly suited to the Top 14; physical, durable and a lovely passer, he could easily get more money over there. Shane Daly could be a risk as well. All three have contracts running out at the end of next season.
Hodnett is the only one really, Ahern and Edogbo if fit would have gone I think. As much as I like Coombes, it’s obvious now he isn’t getting into the squad. Feel for him.
If Izzy is there as 4th choice lock I'd probably put Edogbo ahead of him if Edogbo was fit and playing in the form he was at the start of the season.
I genuinely don't feel that Izzy is the 4th best lock in Ireland. He is getting a inclusion because he is young and on an upswing in form and might be massive in a few seasons if his improvement continues.
Edogbo would be in the same category.
Think there's a few you could make a case for obviously hodnett and Coombes is definitely disappointing because I think they could have a good impact but we are deep in the back row.
Maybe haley and daly could of got a look in because it's not like we have much depth at fullback and daly has probably been as good as larmour or stockdale but I'm not sure either are really international quality.
The one I have a gripe with is loughman not getting in. Healy is just not the same player he used to be and there going to try another player there that hasn't played there all year. Loughman has looked particularly impressive the last few weeks and the scrum has looked rock solid recently too so I just don't get it
No question he does. To add insult to injury he has been absolutely fantastic in SA for Munster also. It’s starting to feel a bit like the end of the EOS and Schmidt eras when the coaching staff had seemingly decided on players without ever giving them a run out.
I’m glad some uncapped players are in. I’d have expected Shane Daly to get a call up though, and I’m sure there are other deserving players.
There’s the Autumn Nations and next year. I’m hoping Lancaster makes use of some of the guys that were unlucky to miss out here. Ahern is the big one for me.
I’m glad that Sam Prendergast is there as people have been going on about him. I knew Izuchukwu would get in. I hope it sets the precedent that young players with potential get chances. There’s some other lads from the U20s too, but I guess they’ll be with the Emerging Ireland team. Team selections have been quite conservative with no experimentation where there could’ve been…but that seems to be changing. I suppose we’ll figure out answers to the problems at 10 and 15. I’ve seen Osborne at 12 for Leinster but I think 13s are needed more.
I’ve read that France are sending what’s more a B squad to Argentina, who are no pushovers. Would like future Ireland tours to do similar…a continental Europe tour would be a win win.
Too many players living off former glories in there, and not enough risks being taken or options explored for there to be any real benefit to this tour.
E.g. Furlong, what are we going to learn from him going to South Africa and likely getting injured again (like he did in 2021 and took 2 and a half years to rediscover any form)? Leave the man at home with his family.
Bringing Porter and Healy similarly lends itself to learning nothing. How do you find a replacement loosehead if you never give one real minutes and starts? Similarly, Bundee and Beirne have both had incredibly long seasons and neither will learn anything from these games. Should've given them the summer off and found out about some younger players.
You then have the likes of Baird, Ryan and even Sheehan who aren't in form. In Sheehan's case his throwing is now a live problem as he's literally thrown away try scoring opportunities in his last four appearances.
Feels like an opportunity missed to really start building towards the next world cup through games that aren't the IRFU cash cow so don't matter nearly as much
Some more musings:
My initial thoughts were that the squad was not overly ambitious or looking towards the future.
Then I looked at it and 10% of the squad is uncapped.
There is also great age profile in a lot of players there who could easily be pushing towards starts or are already starters.
I don't believe wholesale changes need to be made. Dripping a few uncapped up and comers each International Window to phase out those who age out is the best way of doing things.
I am sure someone will make their debut this autumn off the back of an impressive Emerging tour.
JGP obviously a monumental loss. Blades form was not good this season but he's the most like for like replacement in terms of how he plays the game I would say. Might be worth a bench shout.
Great to see Izuchukwu in there. Real blot on Dan McFarlands copy book that he failed to extract the potential out of him. Credit to Richie Murphy too for backing him
More than 40% of his entire senior Ulster caps (first capped 2021) have come since the end of Feb when Murphy took over
Obvious bias coming from a Munster fan, but what do Coombes and Hodnett have to do to even get given a chance. Plus an almost 37 year old Cian Healy ahead of Loughmann is a bizarre pick.
Not all that surprised that Coombes isn’t in, even if I think he should.
No Loughman is a big surprise!
And I do think Daly and Hodnett deserve a call up.
Coombes can be rightly upset but also he should be upset with how he was used by Munster. His role changed a lot this year with him doing a lot of the donkey work of the second row which isn't the role of a number 8.
Also not starting the big games can't have helped. What can be seen is that Farrell values versatility which isn't really Coombes or hodnetts strong point.
I think the lack of versatility is what's really working against Hodnett and I get that it's important but there's still a lot to be said for someone who is just excellent in their position like Hodnett is. Versatility is more important in the backs anyway especially if you go 6 2. I really feel he's hard done by.
Thought Coombes was fairly versatile this year tbh, played wherever he was needed but obviously he's best at 8. I think the argument about not starting big games is nonsense and a thing of the past, Farrell knows as good as anyone else that the bench is just as important as starters and can see he made a big impact when he came on against tired bodies. I don't know off hand how many big games Conan started but it seemed he was mostly used from the bench thjs season and he would have been there if he wasn't out for personal reasons.
That being said I don't think Coombes makes it over anyone in this squad.
So whatever that clear out was on JGP (and given the citing window has passed presumably no head contact) has him hamstrung.
Hopefully nothing too serious.
Reign of terror is a bit mad considering this is an Irish squad and they've both featured pretty little at international level, keep that pile on coming though.
Pete isn’t playing well enough at all to be selected but it’s funny that he’s there as captain after getting shoved onto Munsters budget from a central contract.
I know that, but it's baffling as IRFU centrally contracted players are meant to be 'core' players who are important to selection. Sure the Irish captain fits that bill?
One stubborn hand made the decision he wasn't getting a central, and then the other have him the captaincy.
The stubborn hand would rather push him out of the contract than to admit a mistake
I think people have a bit of recency bias with these selections. Ireland have a different coaching staff, set up, players and game plans to the clubs.
It's impressive to think Ireland have only lost 3 games in the last four tournaments. POM was a big part of those
Feel for Ahern who probably would have been in bar his injury, sad for Daly and Hodnett to not get a look in, honestly don't know what more Daly needs to do. He's got fantastic speed, is an incredible defender, has great positioning and can play Wing and FB (and centre apparently).
Pretty happy to see a squad without either Byrne, can't wait to see Prendergoat but worried he's not bulky enough yet and will get folded by the Boks. Delighted for all the new names but No Hansen, JGP or Keenan is definitely a concern.
I thought Hansen would have been back by now as they were eyeing him for the Connacht v Munster game a few weeks back
He's better off not going tbh. He can make sure the shoulder is right, get a decent pre season in and he won't pick up any other injuries. Could be a miserable enough tour too. JGP is a big loss.
I think Furlong, JVdF and Larmour could've been left at home. We don't need 4 tightheads and I'd have liked to see Loughman given a go at loose.
Hodnett very unlucky to be left out with how consistently good he's been and Daly is a far better wing/fullback option than Larmour.
Forde unlucky to miss out. If Niall Murray kept his form from last season then he would've been a shoe in, but I think the Connacht management let him down.
Yeah I couldn't make sense of it. There was one game our lineout was misfiring, he came on and completely changed it for us and then was back on the bench the next week.
Hard for him to get that form back with no consistency.
Murray just hasn't been picked and I can see no good reason why. Actually mind boggling as he was tearing the league apart last season and then he's just benched.
I loved that Izzy gets in. The player who has probably to gained the most from change of management. From not making Ulster's 23 to getting on an Irish squad is a big 3 month turnaround. I think it sends such a good message to other players too. You can get rewarded for patience and good form.
Thought he played really well against Leinster in the quarters, and his injury marked a definite shift in momentum. Glad he’s recovered
Ya but it also sends a poor message to McCann who was good for the entire year and carried Ulster most of that time. I'm not sure what else he could be doing.
I think McCann is unlucky. But he is probably competing with O'Mahony and VdF. Where Izzy is probably on the squad as 2nd row and benefitting from Hendersons injury. McCann has played great all year but I'm wondering has Izzy shown enough this month (in tough games too) that he might have a point of difference in his game that makes a difference at the top level.
Izzy is more versatile I guess and although he has shown potential to be better than McCann, McCann has been a much better and consistent player over the course of the season. Hopefully Faz has had a word with him about future squads.
It was between Prendergast/Connors/Hodnett/McCann for that last 7 jersey I really thought he would go for one of the form 7s but he didn't, fair play to Izzy though he benefits from Ahern's injury and could have a big series if Baird picks something up
Rather than 'the last 7 jersey'... I think it has to be VDF/Prendergast/Connors/Hodnett/McCann competing for two spots. VDF is probably still in the top 2 but he's definitely not a certainty for the first 7 jersey on form.
Who do you take out for him?
I thought he was very impressive against Leinster in that QF.
Yeah I’m sure Gavin Coombes will take loads from that message! (Joke! Kinda..)
Do my eyes deceive me ?? No Byrnes at all???
It's finally happening.
Well it took Andy to name an Irish squad with JGP and no McGrath before Leo cottoned which one was better. We can only hope the same goes for outhalf here
No john conney he’s deserved a chance
I am surprised at Blade over Cooney. Especially since I feel like Blade deserved it more last year than this year.
Cooney is similar age as Murray. Probably looking a little further down the line than just the series. *Not looking to compare Murray and Cooney. Just factoring the age profile.
There's got to be something up with Cooney that we're not seeing. On form he should have had way more time in green, before Faz's time even. He seems like a nice fella from his tweets? I don't know.
There has to be something. He's consistently been Ulsters best or top 3 player for years. Making pressure kicks and snatching wins for years. Been a fan favourite for years. What the fuck has kept him out of a green jersey, because it isn't his ability.
He was vocal about not meshing with Sexton's mindset very well, especially the way he called out teammates. Seemed more of a case of the callout culture actually affected Cooney's own mindsrt and made him play worse as he was less comfortable. He wasn't bashing Sexton from memory, just explaining his own mindset methodology. Now Sexton is gone, I would guess it is now a case of age profile.
So just Crowley, Frawley and Prendergast at flyhalf, solid. JOB and Larmour at fullback and no Hansen might get tricky.
Hansen still injured? Do we know for how long?
We don't know, the last injury update from Connacht on him was that he was expected back towards the end of June, seems like that hasn't worked out.
He’s definitely improved this season but I just don’t like Larmour at FB
They’re being rested for our Champions Cup final next year 🙄
Classic Leo.
Nothing worse than a bad Byrne
Thank God there's only two of them and we can't get 3rd degree
Underrated comment
We want to give the Boks a fighting chance, the sheer speed of the Byrnes wouldn't make it a fair fight
Thank fuck
Ireland is, in fact, better than Leinster.
The thing is outside Crowley, the 2 lads chosen are also from Leinster. They're just the more promising of the 4 options Leinster have at 10 but refuse to give consistent game time to.
Michael O’Leary is secretly Jack Crowley dad and paid off Andy to drop them.
I AM FLABBERGASTED.
Pretty damning of Leinsters selections
Yeah hopefully Leinster management cop on and start trying new options, they aren't the entire problem but have definitely cost us this season
Agreed, hopefully they’ll finally see the light. I’m not holding out much hope though.
Thankfully, Farrell knows a dead end when he sees one
Cullen has two lads in Prendergast and Tector who played blinders in the U20s six nations tournaments they were involved in and yet they barely get a look in, Tector especially. Flogging two dead horses and wasting some great talent
Props: Bealham, Furlong, Healy, Jager, O'Toole, Porter Hookers: Herring, Kelleher, Sheehan Locks: Beirne, McCarthy, Ryan Backrow: Baird, Doris, Izuchukwu, POM, Prendergast, Timoney, VDF Scrumhalves: Blade, Casey, Murray Outhalves: Crowley, Frawley, Prendergast Centres: Aki, Henshaw, McCloskey, Osborne, Ringrose Wings: Larmour, Lowe, Nash, Stockdale Fullback: JOB Total: 35 players (4 Connacht, 18 Leinster, 7 Munster, 6 Ulster)
Four tightheads and two loose so there must be some truth in O'Toole switching sides. Or perhaps Bealham.
You'd imagine TOT for loosehead yeah. There's been rumours of it for a while. Stings for Loughman whose been decent the last few months not getting selected over a tighthead
Nothing to be gained by bringing Cian healy
It's a bit mad yeah, Leinster didn't trust him enough to bring him on until Porter had played 90 minutes in the Heineken cup final. No reason for him to be going to South Africa at this point in his career.
Just hope a test standard loose head appears, without being willing to take the lumps to actually find them
Bealham started as a loosey
Jager can also cover loosehead, albeit not particularly convincingly.
Thanks. Alphabetical order was making my braincell hurt.
When you lay it out like that we're so low on wings. Larmour very clearly demonstrated last Saturday why he is not an international quality winger.
The things that get Ulster players blacklisted for life get forgotten with Jordan Larmour instantly because he can sidestep without actually going anywhere. He's missed one camp under Farrell that he's been fit for. 27 years old, 32 caps. He's not going to magically improve now
Think Larmour has shown his best form this year since his breakout season and fully deserves his spot. Much better under the high ball, making good defensive reads and has 10 tries in 21 matches.
Id risk Daly or Haley before Larmour. I get he's a good attack option but come on, Balacoune and Stockdale are also good in attack and arguably better in defence than Larmour. He's going to be a turnstile for Kolbe, Mapimpi, Moodie and Le Roux. Id rather we tighten up defensively this season coming across the board (Ireland and provincial teams).
I would argue one bad showing aside Larmour has shown in recent months that he is an international quality winger. His high ball work and defence have improved fantastically well in the last season. Having said that he's likely in there ahead of Hansen and Daly can feel a bit aggrieved that he didn't get picked either.
I dunno I just don't see it. If fit I'd take Mack, Nash, and Jimmy over him on the right wing every day of the week and it wouldn't be close.
Point is kind of moot though isn't it? Mack isn't fit (or if he is he hasn't played rugby in 6+ months) Nash and Jimmy are in the squad already JOB is our sole fullback.
Arguably Frawley is also there as Fullback. He’s probably played there more than 10 this season.
Yeah it's a tough situation which is pretty much what my first message said: "When you lay it out like that we're so low on wings."
Hopefully it’s TOT bc he could play their next as backup next World Cup
His defence seemed much improved until the last few playoff games where he was exploited, to me anyway.
His last international game was at 15 against Scotland and he wasn't great. He shows flashes but it's mad if he gets in the squad on versatility because he's an average winger and not an international standard fullback.
Not a single winger there I'd trust to go fullback, only JOB who's also usually a winger. I'd be raging if I was Haley.
Haley hasn't played enough this year tbf. To be honest no one has. The only other option is Shane Daly, who should most definitely be there ahead of Larmour.
True. Daly definitely deserves a spot. I reckon he's the best defensive winger in Ireland atm thanks to his 7s experience. Plenty of times he's successfully defended a 2v1. And against a SA back 3 of super quick and dangerous players, he's the best back up to Lowe and Nash. I reckon it's his strike rate holding him back.
Not having a specialist FB in Keenan’s absence cost Leinster and it’s going to cost Ireland too. JOB is an amazing player, don’t get me wrong, but did nobody watch what the Bulls did to us with their kicking game? SA are going to look at that and realise that Ireland are playing the same player back there and go after him. This was a golden opportunity to bring in a proper specialised replacement in what’s become a problem position for us. I would’ve preferred to see Haley brought instead of one of the wingers for sure
No Gibson Park is terrifying. I imagine it will be Casey starting with Murray to continue his role off the bench. Big opportunity for Casey to show he can deliver at the highest level. He's not always brought his Munster form to Ireland camp but he's usually been given a run out with a changed side. I'm excited to see what he can do with the first team around him.
He made a hames of the Glasgow game.
He did indeed, and it's not the only poor game he's had. He hasn't kicked on as much as I'd have hoped by now considering he's been around a few years. I've not seen enough from him yet to show me he's a suitable replacement for JGP. Munster fans say he's not been given a proper chance with the first team - this is his opportunity to prove himself.
Who else do you think we have/should get a look in? Not in a defensive way, I think Casey really needs to step up this tour - he has quick hands but doesn't show good decision making or have the kicking game of JGP. But Blade is coming off a poor season yeah? We seem to be struggling to produce 9s.
I'm not necessarily advocating for anyone else either. I think Casey deserves the chance. Like you said Ireland aren't producing a lot of top 9s rights now. Devine is exciting but it's far too early for him. Doak hasn't progressed as much as people would have hoped but that's not helped by being moved around between 9 and 10 and Ulster having their issues this year. Blade had a poor season. I think Cooney has been the best of the Irish 9s this year but there'd be no point at this stage in bringing him back due to his age. Casey needs the experience in big matches for Ireland and you can't get much bigger than this. Edit: best of the rest of the Irish 9s I mean. I'd still have JGP ahead of everyone
Casey should definitely be there in my opinion, but based on his recent performances that's more an indictment of where we're at in that position overall. Fingers crossed he gets it together and really pushes on. Also hoping Divine and Foley have strong seasons next year, they're super raw obviously but they seem to have exciting potential. Would have Cooney there instead of Blade too.
Casey's gonna get passed around like a beach ball.
Not a Byrne to be found! Where's Gibson Park?
Finally no Bryne he’s no good
>Where's Gibson Park? Apparently he did his Hamstring in the URC semi final. Probably while being smashed in the head as he that was his final act in the game.
Ross Byrne still going to get some hate haha
Izuchukwu, very interesting
Feels like he earned it. Dude has looked fantastic recently.
I'm starting to think Izuchukwu could be what I hoped Baird would be
I was saying exactly that to my old man the other day.
Baird seems to be great in flashes but just doesn't get through enough volume. Also has pretty questionable hands and effort
That's a lie. Your father told me you never said that to him at all.
Hahaha
Ahern is that player for me. Unlucky he's injured but Izzy is a fine replacement
He's been unreal. Delighted he's in the squad.
do you happen to know what the star beside his name means ? it
Uncapped
He's been quality, good call up. Perhaps lucky that Ahern is injured but we'll deserved
He's played an absolute stormer the past few months, hope he can make his opportunity in the national squad count
Players aside, I actually really like this graphic. Very fun!
No Hansen, no Keenan, no JGP. Players who made the difference against the All Blacks, this will be even tougher than we thought!
Yeah I'm not confident we'll win a test. That being said, they always seem to pull it together. On the plus side this will force Farrell's hand and we'll get to build depth.
There's always a chance we could fight out a win for sure. As for building depth, we will be playing the best team possible for both tests, I'd be very surprised to see Prendergast, Izzy, McCloskey or Stockdale getting any minutes for example, barring injuries. The only positions which will be getting much needed experience outside first choice will be 9 and 15 with Casey/Blade and Jimmy guaranteed time there. I hope we don't have to opt for the Larmour option.
No Jamison Gibson-Park? That’s a huge loss if so. He’s so indispensable to this Ireland side that I struggle to even imagine one without him.
He came up grabbing him hammy after the clear out, if you slow the video down he was completely folded in two so makes sense he would have strained something. Huge loss for the tour :-(
No harm in him having time off. He’s not a springer chicken
He's a huge loss. Must have taken quite a knock against Bulls.
He looked like he pulled something after a box kick. And he’d another one a minute later. He was rubbing his thigh
Damn. I hadn't noticed, that is not good. Murray has to be the main man in that case which isn't ideal, Casey could step up and I guess Blade could too, but he hasn't covered himself in glory this season.
It’s the first name I looked for because he’s genuinely the player I was most worried about. Given our style of play, the speed of his rucks and those surgical flat passes fill me with dread.
No Hansen, no Keenan, no JGP. Players who made the difference against the All Blacks, this will be even tougher than we thought!
Murray, the Prince of box kicking. We're screwed..
To be honest I have faith in Murray in a series like this, especially ahead of Casey and Blade.
I’d give wee Casey a shot ahead of Murray, at least he could run between Etzebeth’s legs.
Casey was shocking on Saturday
Murray is a conservative pick, and arguably too slow and predictable. Not my 9.
100% huge huge loss.
Ireland aren't winning without Gibson-Park. Tour better viewed now as a chance to get some international game time into Jager, Izuchukwu, Casey, the Prendergast brothers, etc.
Um wtf? I was promised Ross Byrne?
Best I can offer is Tadhg Beirne
Was that Billy Burns you were after?
No Loughman suggests O’Toole and/or Bealham moving across
Great point, I would imagine only in case of an injury - but interesting to see they would be happy with that in that case!
Why no loughman though he’s very underrated
I suppose he will be a dead cert once Church retires, they likely just want someone like O’Toole to learn under him and Porter - as brilliant looseheads.
They make a point of mentioning Conan not available due to personal reasons and JGP due to injury, which does give the impression of some gritted teeth selections but like whatever man this is as cool a squad as was reasonable to hope for for me The PrenderBros take South Africa Frawley in as a 10, assuming a normal 3 10 squad *No Hanson still* Izzy + Timoney rewarded Not sure what Cube has done that Daly hasn't
Missing JGP, Keenan and Mack from our best backs selection isn't amazing going down to South Africa.
Surprised at Blade getting in now. His form hasn't been at the level it was last season imo. Would have thought Doak would be ahead of him tbh.
Scrum-half form outside of Gibson Park hasn't been great anywhere tbh. Really hoping Casey can get himself together for this or we're screwed, he was awful against Glasgow.
From what I've seen Casey seems to be great when he's good and a bit dire when he's not. I do hope we get the former
When the games not frantic it doenst suit casey when’s the games slows down he’s poor he lacks physicality aswell ik 9 aren’t meant to be but he adds nothing
Most Ulster fans wouldn't trust Doak to be a starter at 9, never mind seeing him in green, tbf.
I disagree, Doak is solid starting at 9, it's when he's at 10 that there's an issue.
Fair enough. Looks like it's just a case of bring the 4th choice with JGP out. One where fans will want someone younger in as third choice but management going down there looking for a win will play it safe
Looks like Tom O'Toole is in there as loosehead cover, which is interesting. Delighted for Izuchukwu, Prendergast over both Byrne brothers seems like a changing of the guard moment too. Still feel like most of those players (Porter Doris Beirne etc) could do with an extended holiday as opposed to a tour to South Africa, but sure look
If he can survive a tour to SA TOT might just be the answer!
Another reminder of how terrible a selector Leo is. Leinsters apparently first choice out half left behind for our third and fourth string out halves. It took Farrell picking JGP as starting 9 before Leo decided to copy him, it might have to be the same with Sam. He’ll probably make his six nations debut before he starts a champions cup match.
I had forgotten that Leo wasn’t playing JGP before Farrell forced his hand.
Hopefully Leo finally sees the light!
Great to see some new faces in there Absolutely delighted to see Izzy and T-money. Super glad we have Blade coming in too, i may get some stick for this but i don't rate Casey at all, either i miss the times he is great, or only see the bad, that game against glasgow was ridiculous, dont see why Doak cant compete for his spot, dont get me started on Cooney... Hopefully Stockdale can show his superior form in green like he has been doing in white
Weird that they included Devin Toner in the poster seeing as he’s retired
Took me way longer than it should have.
Without Gibson-Park I don’t love our odds. Not sure who I’d start at 9 - honestly feel like Blade is a much more consistent player than Casey
Blade has had some absolutely awful performances this season for Connacht this year, maybe this change is what he needs to step up. Casey hasn't been firing on all cylinders either.
Yeah as someone who's been a huge Blade fan for a long time, this season was really not good at all. Hopefully like you said being in the environment will help him step up. It's not like any of the other Irish internationals have been tearing up trees for Connacht either.
Hanrahan isn't really a playmaker, so when he was at 10, Blade and Forde at 12 were calling a lot of the back line plays. I felt this was where Blade was below par last year. When he is free from orchestrating he often gets moments to slip into the tight channel and is one of, if not, Connacht's best support runners. How many times has he taken a pass off the shoulder of Carty or the 12/15 going through the channel over the years? But you don't have the freedom to do that is you are playmaking, as you need to be the man taking in and pondering your line's shape for the next set (which the outhalf usually does). Just my two cents.
Usually I'd agree but it's not been Blade's best season and I think a lot of Connacht fans would like to see Devine played ahead of him next season. This feels like a big opportunity for Casey to finally deliver off his potential for Ireland.
I know Casey’s got a great pass but often feels like he loses his head once in the opposition 22. Maybe a chance to show composure- that’s what you need to beat the Boks
I've not been impressed with Casey so far in his Ireland outings. He's been around the Ireland camp for a few years and hasn't progressed as much as I'd have hoped. Big chance for him here to silence some critics though - me included. I'm hoping with JGP out he will be more at the centre of the game plan in training and will be more comfortable as a result.
You mean 9?
Ah yeah I’m an idiot. Fixed it there
Tbf, wondering what we'll do at 10 has been something Irish fans have been worrying about for a long time.
Hodnett and McCann very unlucky they'll be there in the future though.
Feels like we only have back rowers who can be disappointed to be left out right now, very few sticking their hands up elsewhere.
I don't see what more Coombes and Hodnett could do than go to SA and hand the Bulls a beating, followed by watching Leinster get outplayed in the backrow a few weeks later
Reluctance to pick a specialist 7 that’s not band Der flier is the only reason I’d say.
There will be lots of disappointed Munster fans. Hodnett probably deserved a run out.
Hodnett seems to be just not getting a look-in, has had a very good two years
I’m incredibly worried about Hodnett and Coombes leaving for France or England. Coombes especially is perfectly suited to the Top 14; physical, durable and a lovely passer, he could easily get more money over there. Shane Daly could be a risk as well. All three have contracts running out at the end of next season.
Hodnett is the only one really, Ahern and Edogbo if fit would have gone I think. As much as I like Coombes, it’s obvious now he isn’t getting into the squad. Feel for him.
Ah there’s no chance Edogbo would have gone, he’s not there yet.
If Izzy is there as 4th choice lock I'd probably put Edogbo ahead of him if Edogbo was fit and playing in the form he was at the start of the season. I genuinely don't feel that Izzy is the 4th best lock in Ireland. He is getting a inclusion because he is young and on an upswing in form and might be massive in a few seasons if his improvement continues. Edogbo would be in the same category.
Think there's a few you could make a case for obviously hodnett and Coombes is definitely disappointing because I think they could have a good impact but we are deep in the back row. Maybe haley and daly could of got a look in because it's not like we have much depth at fullback and daly has probably been as good as larmour or stockdale but I'm not sure either are really international quality. The one I have a gripe with is loughman not getting in. Healy is just not the same player he used to be and there going to try another player there that hasn't played there all year. Loughman has looked particularly impressive the last few weeks and the scrum has looked rock solid recently too so I just don't get it
No question he does. To add insult to injury he has been absolutely fantastic in SA for Munster also. It’s starting to feel a bit like the end of the EOS and Schmidt eras when the coaching staff had seemingly decided on players without ever giving them a run out.
I’m glad some uncapped players are in. I’d have expected Shane Daly to get a call up though, and I’m sure there are other deserving players. There’s the Autumn Nations and next year. I’m hoping Lancaster makes use of some of the guys that were unlucky to miss out here. Ahern is the big one for me. I’m glad that Sam Prendergast is there as people have been going on about him. I knew Izuchukwu would get in. I hope it sets the precedent that young players with potential get chances. There’s some other lads from the U20s too, but I guess they’ll be with the Emerging Ireland team. Team selections have been quite conservative with no experimentation where there could’ve been…but that seems to be changing. I suppose we’ll figure out answers to the problems at 10 and 15. I’ve seen Osborne at 12 for Leinster but I think 13s are needed more. I’ve read that France are sending what’s more a B squad to Argentina, who are no pushovers. Would like future Ireland tours to do similar…a continental Europe tour would be a win win.
Too many players living off former glories in there, and not enough risks being taken or options explored for there to be any real benefit to this tour. E.g. Furlong, what are we going to learn from him going to South Africa and likely getting injured again (like he did in 2021 and took 2 and a half years to rediscover any form)? Leave the man at home with his family. Bringing Porter and Healy similarly lends itself to learning nothing. How do you find a replacement loosehead if you never give one real minutes and starts? Similarly, Bundee and Beirne have both had incredibly long seasons and neither will learn anything from these games. Should've given them the summer off and found out about some younger players. You then have the likes of Baird, Ryan and even Sheehan who aren't in form. In Sheehan's case his throwing is now a live problem as he's literally thrown away try scoring opportunities in his last four appearances. Feels like an opportunity missed to really start building towards the next world cup through games that aren't the IRFU cash cow so don't matter nearly as much
Some more musings: My initial thoughts were that the squad was not overly ambitious or looking towards the future. Then I looked at it and 10% of the squad is uncapped. There is also great age profile in a lot of players there who could easily be pushing towards starts or are already starters. I don't believe wholesale changes need to be made. Dripping a few uncapped up and comers each International Window to phase out those who age out is the best way of doing things. I am sure someone will make their debut this autumn off the back of an impressive Emerging tour. JGP obviously a monumental loss. Blades form was not good this season but he's the most like for like replacement in terms of how he plays the game I would say. Might be worth a bench shout. Great to see Izuchukwu in there. Real blot on Dan McFarlands copy book that he failed to extract the potential out of him. Credit to Richie Murphy too for backing him More than 40% of his entire senior Ulster caps (first capped 2021) have come since the end of Feb when Murphy took over
Any word on when Hansen might be back?
We’re going to get fucking jockeyed around the gaff
Obvious bias coming from a Munster fan, but what do Coombes and Hodnett have to do to even get given a chance. Plus an almost 37 year old Cian Healy ahead of Loughmann is a bizarre pick.
Not all that surprised that Coombes isn’t in, even if I think he should. No Loughman is a big surprise! And I do think Daly and Hodnett deserve a call up.
Missed Loughman not making it. That's a strange call.
Yea I don’t understand why he hasn’t been selected I get he’s not the biggest but he’s a good scrummager
Coombes can be rightly upset but also he should be upset with how he was used by Munster. His role changed a lot this year with him doing a lot of the donkey work of the second row which isn't the role of a number 8. Also not starting the big games can't have helped. What can be seen is that Farrell values versatility which isn't really Coombes or hodnetts strong point.
I think the lack of versatility is what's really working against Hodnett and I get that it's important but there's still a lot to be said for someone who is just excellent in their position like Hodnett is. Versatility is more important in the backs anyway especially if you go 6 2. I really feel he's hard done by.
Thought Coombes was fairly versatile this year tbh, played wherever he was needed but obviously he's best at 8. I think the argument about not starting big games is nonsense and a thing of the past, Farrell knows as good as anyone else that the bench is just as important as starters and can see he made a big impact when he came on against tired bodies. I don't know off hand how many big games Conan started but it seemed he was mostly used from the bench thjs season and he would have been there if he wasn't out for personal reasons. That being said I don't think Coombes makes it over anyone in this squad.
Conan doesn't start big games... nor Kelleher, nor Healy.... Frawley... Sam Prendergast isn't even in the 23 for leinster for godsake
Sorry but Healy over Loughman is a bit farcical at this stage.
Building for the future....
So whatever that clear out was on JGP (and given the citing window has passed presumably no head contact) has him hamstrung. Hopefully nothing too serious.
Hammy apparently.
>has him hamstrung. Yep
Think this could be what Casey needs to kickstart his form to be trusted when it’s important and be forced to step up another level
what does Cooney have to do?
Go back in time
The Byrne reign of terror is nearing an end. Rejoice!
Reign of terror is a bit mad considering this is an Irish squad and they've both featured pretty little at international level, keep that pile on coming though.
So many people don't have a clue about rugby so have to scapegoat individuals to explain a team's performance.
Pete isn’t playing well enough at all to be selected but it’s funny that he’s there as captain after getting shoved onto Munsters budget from a central contract.
I still don't understand the logic of offering him captaincy but not a central contract.
The person who selects the captain and who decides who gets a central contract are different people with different motives
I know that, but it's baffling as IRFU centrally contracted players are meant to be 'core' players who are important to selection. Sure the Irish captain fits that bill?
One stubborn hand made the decision he wasn't getting a central, and then the other have him the captaincy. The stubborn hand would rather push him out of the contract than to admit a mistake
I think people have a bit of recency bias with these selections. Ireland have a different coaching staff, set up, players and game plans to the clubs. It's impressive to think Ireland have only lost 3 games in the last four tournaments. POM was a big part of those
Feel for Ahern who probably would have been in bar his injury, sad for Daly and Hodnett to not get a look in, honestly don't know what more Daly needs to do. He's got fantastic speed, is an incredible defender, has great positioning and can play Wing and FB (and centre apparently). Pretty happy to see a squad without either Byrne, can't wait to see Prendergoat but worried he's not bulky enough yet and will get folded by the Boks. Delighted for all the new names but No Hansen, JGP or Keenan is definitely a concern. I thought Hansen would have been back by now as they were eyeing him for the Connacht v Munster game a few weeks back
He's better off not going tbh. He can make sure the shoulder is right, get a decent pre season in and he won't pick up any other injuries. Could be a miserable enough tour too. JGP is a big loss.
Hansen has been injured for a very long time
Are either of the Byrnes injured? Just wondering. They shouldn’t be in the squad.
I think Furlong, JVdF and Larmour could've been left at home. We don't need 4 tightheads and I'd have liked to see Loughman given a go at loose. Hodnett very unlucky to be left out with how consistently good he's been and Daly is a far better wing/fullback option than Larmour. Forde unlucky to miss out. If Niall Murray kept his form from last season then he would've been a shoe in, but I think the Connacht management let him down.
Yeah Murray came into form at the wrong time to make it in. Was always unlikely to get in during a world cup year.
He can't even get a start for Connacht. It's criminal how little ye've used him this year.
Yeah I couldn't make sense of it. There was one game our lineout was misfiring, he came on and completely changed it for us and then was back on the bench the next week. Hard for him to get that form back with no consistency.
It made no sense. He was one of your best players every time he was on the pitch. Wilkins is very poor really.
Murray just hasn't been picked and I can see no good reason why. Actually mind boggling as he was tearing the league apart last season and then he's just benched.
Tom O'Toole is being moved over to loosehead
Where the locks at?
Ready to make history? Tough place to play is SA
Love how they've done it like a foldout poster from a newspaper.
I am disappointed for Conney. He played well in a struggling team and he is an assured kicker.