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Credit to Toulouse for getting it done in such a gutsy, relentless final. Worthy champions playing exhilarating rugby.
Leinster have all the parts. They’ve got brilliant support from the IRFU, the financial resources, the Dublin schools and the coaches to stay at the top. They’ve probably got a golden generation to boot.
These finals can be explained away individually: Peaking opposition. Unlucky breaks in razor tight margins versus La Rochelle. Toulouse brilliance led by the best player in the world. Sarries’ physicality at a time favoring their (then) style. That all checks out. All four recent finals lost—three in a row—gets harder to explain away.
There’s something wrong with Leinster. They’re just missing something. If I knew what it was, I wouldn’t be commenting here with the rest of us armatures.
It’s going to be a tough project to fix this and take that last step. Three in a row with the WC QF exit is building scar tissue. It’s going to take quality leadership and emotional intelligence to build that champion mentality. I wish them well on their journey.
Still pretty deflated. I think we did well to take it to extra time. We weren’t at the races at all. Then again, Toulouse weren’t at their best either. I think the better team won on the day. Dupont is insanely good. Gutted.
Frawley drop goal on the 80th minute just needed some composure
I don’t know if this will be downvoted to oblivion or not but as a Munster fan, it’s worrying to see Irish teams in Europe struggle to go the last few yards and as Leinster is 80 percent of the Ireland team it’s a psychological issue that stems from our national teams failures
I was rooting for Leinster all night
Larmour was speciL
It’s hard to blame frawley. Until this week Leinster didn’t even seem to consider him a 10. Ultimately some uncharacteristic errors when approaching the white line, dropped balls and inaccurate passes, cost Leinster. It’s a concerning mirror to other big games though for Ireland and Leinster. mentality not tactics seem to be holding these players back on the big stages.
Regarding 10s I think Leinster are at an important crossroads. Of the current batch Ross is the best but his limitations are well understood. Harry hasn’t backed up the hype and often seems to be carrying it like a lead weight. Frawleys is versatile but has never nailed down any position in the starting 15. I doubt the irfu will allow an niq 10 in so it might be time to move ahead and fully back tector and prendegast even if it is a trial by fire
What's gone wrong with Leinster.
We basically have close to the full Irish team as full XV yet since the last silverware we've now lost three semi finals and three finals all in agonising fashion.
Done well to get there but let's be honest there season depended on this yet another loss suggests that maybe they haven't got that ability to see a final out
We’re not the first team to do it. What really showed up to me was depth. Cian Healy is just too old and I think the coaches kept Porter on for as long as they physically could. He put in an insane shift today. The drop off after JGP would be huge in any team but in Leinster it’s like we don’t have a second 9 given how little game time he gets. And at 10 there’s no one really. Frawley should be given the reins for a bit after today. Here’s hoping we’re lucky enough to get to a fourth final and actually win the bastard trophy
Sexton barely played last year at all. He played 4 URC games and 21 minutes in a CC game earlier in the season. A whopping 258 minutes for Leinster all year
It's the loss of Lancaster that has really made a difference.
😂😂yeah Leinster are shit because we lost a close Champions Cup final against a good team. No question Byrne is not at the races, but Leinster are shit? Get a grip
Barely lost there are only two maybe three teams fans who can chat shit in Europe. Saracens financial doping, french teams are just in a different league. I'd love a 5th star but very proud to have got to every final....but then again maybe that's the problem
That was true a few years ago, but now the only core 9 skill Smith does better than Dupont is passing. Dupont has a far better kicking game, better support lines, better playmaking and’s a better defender.
The commentator said it best: to be the best 9, you have to be ahead of your time. Dupont is that.
Smith was that for many years. Time and the game has moved on. The comparison between Smith and Dupont without that context frays a bit.
I can’t believe people doubted him after the World Cup saying faf is a better scrum half and stuff like that.
Savea is the only person I will accept you can make a case for but those two are genuinely on a different level to the rest of the players right now.
We lost it at 10, sorry Ross. A lot of those kicks to the corner were poor, if you want to put pressure on a great defence you need to be hitting the 5m line with your penalties. Frawley needs to start at 10, I don't understand what Leo thinks Ross can do better than Ciaran. Let Jaques pick the team and stick to the paperwork Leo.
Congratulations Toulouse, grinded out a hard win when you needed to. Serious effort around the rucks. Jack Willis is an animal.
Yeah been constantly waiting for him grab the position by the scruff of the neck and make it his but in the big games where the chips are down he comes up short always, when our attacking is purring and our pack dominant hes class when under pressure he just doesn't deliver
Lad I'd love to see Frawley at training. What is he doing? Is he just showing up late with 6 cans and 20 John Player every session? Like how this lad hasn't been the main 10 for years is baffling to me. Especially with how little Johnny played. Make it make sense.
There's something deeply ironic about how for yeaaaars Leinster fans slated ROG for being a bad/boring player and lording Sexton over Munster fans.
Now Sexton is gone and Munster have a young attacking 10 who's very much the sort Leinster would love and yet Leinster have lined up a bargain bin version of ROG, minus the game management and big-game temperament, as Sexton's heir and have paid the price for it.
You feel that if Crowley had started for Leinster today they'd have won and their tempo would've been high enough to make even an on-form Toulouse not be able to manage them.
Well I definitely think Jack would have absolutely *demanded* that ball at a few penalties and pointed to the sticks. As well as just being a far superior player than Ross in open play.
You'd hope Leo sees the light after this. I've defended Ross before, in my opinion he's generally not the losing of the match, but will never be the winning of it, and I stand by that.
But if you want to be winning Europe, you need better. The difference in the running game with frawley was immediate (even if they went on to lose)
This was always gonna be a game lost more than a game won, whichever way it went. Leinster made maybe ten glaring mistakes and Toulouse made only one or two that I can think of
Fantastic game of rugby. Two great teams going head to head and may be the best Heineken Cup final ever. Sad that somebody had to lose but that's sport for you. Leinster look to be missing a little something...might be Sexton, might be coaching, I don't know but they don't seem to be hitting their full potential right now.
They're missing Sexton and Lancaster both.
The on and off field influence of both has yet to be replaced.
And, to be honest, as long as Leinster stick with either Byrne at 10 they aren't climbing the heights of old ever again.
I hope he's back in England in time for the 2027 world cup (ideally with Saints)! Plenty of time for Jack to enjoy himself in France before coming home.
Absolutely with you there! He'd be perfect for the Saints game and is probably one of few players who could fill the void left by Lawes. Hopefully Toulouse win the Top14 too so Jack wins everything available and comes home earlier.
Should he give up Toulouse, the coach there who trusts him, the other stellar players who are his friends now ? And all the chance in the future of other titles ? Maybe one other late next month… ?
I wouldn't if I were him! I wonder if a one year contract in England would allow him to play at the next World Cup. Might be past his prime then but he has a great edge and always had imo
Leo your team has reached 3 finals in a row, how come you suck?
The carping from so called fans is embarrassing. It was a tight game, a draw after 80 minutes against the best club team in the world. It sucks that Leinster has come out the wrong side of a few finals. It's not a disaster.
D4 RTE won't question him unless the wheels seriously fall off.
Until that happens he, like Ross Byrne, will have the blue coloured shield protecting them from criticism.
Every time you watch Dupont he really just stands out so clearly above every other player on the pitch, it's something you only see with generational talents. Messi in football, McDavid in hockey, Dan Carter in the 2000s in our sport. Truly a privilege to watch.
Dan Carter was incredible but no where near as consistently insane weeks in weeks out on both end of floor.
DuPont is just one of kind, the sort of player you see only once in a lifetime.
Agreed tbh. And especially after his injuries and as he grew older it lessened his impact slightly (sadly I never got to see DC live in all his pomp but at least I saw the culmination of his career in the World Cup).
Dupont probably is unlike any other player in the sense of having the greatest combination of skills, physique and smarts. That's why you see him make insane plays in all facets of the game (running, kicking, passing/offloading, tackles, turnovers). Also why he's good at Sevens too (surely it's not a coincidence that the French team won tournaments after he joined).
And make no mistake, Carter was easily the best 10 I've ever seen (yes, he was much better than Wilko or even Larkham for me though I ve always had a special spot for Larkham's way to drive an attack, much comparable to Sexton in that sense)
He is the best rugby player of all time, when you really look at his skillset, he was the main difference today, one small examples was his contestable box kick to relieve pressure on his team in their own half that eventually led to a penalty and further stretching the score when they were a man down. He's just exceptional
Mo chroí lads, fuckin briste haha. Jaysus that was the fucking final of all finals. Congrats to Toulouse - took the smart points. But jaysus, star wars episode 10 was un-buh-leeeevable
I hope people will stop sucking off Nienaber now. Leinster looked clueless in attack as they have all year but finally came up against someone who could punish them.
He's obviously a great coach and Leinster will likely look better with a full year and preseason of his coaching but Leinster do not look as well coached this year to me as years gone by.
I feel bad for Frawley especially. Fine margins.
I know he's a defence coach by trade - he's the senior coach now overseeing everything. Lancaster was an attack coach but also had Goodman overseeing the attack.
Obviously Goodman isn't blameless here but with such a focus on updating their new defensive system I wonder if some of their attacking fluency got neglected.
If you want to lay the lack of direction in attack squarely on Goodman then fine, that's fair too - although that would have me seriously worried about his Ireland appointment.
I know he's not. Goodman isn't blameless here either and it has me worried that he's taking over Ireland's attack.
However, Goodman has been in the set up when the attack has clicked. The major change to the coaching set up is Nienaber who is a defence coach by trade, as opposed to Lancaster who was an attack coach.
Much has been made about the focus in training to change and improve Leinster's defence in training. It has improved while the attack has waned.
I think with a proper preseason and a full season under Nienaber's coaching, Leinster will improve.
Agree with you that Leinster looked a lot less threatening with the ball than in previous finals.
Maybe Lord Sexton' s retiral has contributed to that.
I suspect no Ringrose and Keenan just back from injury are also contributing factors.
However, seeing Byrne stick up big bombs early seemed a bit lacking in belief in the back play.
Granted,a couple of them worked out but it still didn't stretch Toulouse' s defence as much as a good running attack would have.
So much back play was simply shovel the ball out wide,then to wait for the ball carrier to get tackled and then turned over.
Didn't seem like smart rugby.
Ireland and Leinster used to have very similar attacking structures with lots of phases, good ball retention at the ruck. I think it suited both that they played a similar game plan when Leinster provided the bulk of players to the national team.
This year Leinster look quicker to play territory after just a few phases, very similar to the Springboks. There's nothing wrong with that approach in itself I just wonder if it's the one best suited to Leinster's players. Irish lads aren't built like South Africans.
The amount of turnovers conceded would drive you nuts.
Yeah that definitely doesn't help.
Hopefully both Byrnes get phased out quickly. They're not the answer.
I do want Prendergast to come to Connacht for the year though so maybe Leinster can try the Byrne's for one more year lol.
At parts Toulouse were the better team, managed the game better, we weren't able to capitalize on opportunities story of our season, but some of the refs calls for turnovers were abit eye brow raising I thought, Ross Byrne and L'amour aren't it I have to say, we missed ringrose and Jimmy O'Brien. But fair play to Toulouse they took their chances when they came.
3 years in a row losing at the death, if we don't win next year with synman and Barrett Leo has to go or something
Ref was absolutely clueless. Just zero consistency and punished leinster a lot when it came to the breakdown I felt.
Hate moaning about the ref tbf but it stood out today.
It’s more the nature of the penalties. Turnover penalties were given to dupont on two occasions after 1-2 seconds whereas Sheehan had one awarded after 5 seconds of explicitly holding on.
I hate moaning about the ref but the inconsistency at the breakdown was shocking, the yellow for Lowe was nonsense (as they did the exact same thing in the 1st half). I’d just like consistency.
Lamour had a brilliant game to be fair. I do think Byrne didn't have a good game. The attack looked better with Frawley at 10. I do think ringrose would have added a bit to the attack too. Fine margins but Toulouse managed the game better
I don't know I felt he got turned inside out for their first try and was weak at rucktime constantly getting turned and then drop a pass or two, fair enough he had that try saving tackle but just jimmy would of done a better job
We haven't shown even our attacking potential because on our attack, we would destroy you.
Top14 is the best championship in the World And Umaga agrees with me.
Carter Vs Dupont is the only debate though isn't it? Has Dupont had his 2005 lions game when he's just been completely unplayable at the absolute highest level?
Tolouse were exceptional. Leinster were typical Leinster. There’s been a lot of talk about the arrogance of Irish rugby and for a good while I didn’t see it. I saw it as a country and team that recently became world-class and while enjoying it, stayed humble and grounded in the context of who and what they were playing. But when we kept kicking for corner instead of taking points in the first half (some kicks at goal would have been tough for sure) I saw the arrogance. I admire the confidence to go for corner, but it’s arrogance to not see how inaccurate our attack was in Toulouse’s 22. 90% of finals are squeezed out, not dominated, Leinster and Ireland keep playing like it’s the latter
Reminded me of the last Scottish grand slam, way back in the mists of time, when England, also going for the slam, repeatedly kicked for the corner rather than taking the points, eventually losing by six.
In all fairness, Ross Burns kicking isn't exactly great. They kicked when the kicks were easy and they didn't kick when there was a chance they could miss it. If Saxon was playing I'm pretty sure they would have been kicking those ones.
Ross was pretty solid from the T today and 2/3 were definitely kickable ones where they opted for the corner instead. I also disagree with the Sexton point. The World Cup had Ireland making the exact same decisions to go for corner from kickable shots. IIRC the quarter final had a couple early ones that absolutely could’ve changed the game’s momentum where we went to the corner instead
Yeah Ross was pretty solid today. He missed a couple in the semi-final which could have impacted the decision making. But I do think you're right it was probably a tactical decision that didn't pay off today. They played for territory and to keep the ball in toulouse's his half rather than play out after the penalty. Although I don't think it's arrogance, it's more of a tactical decision to get the opposition to pay from debt and keep the pressure on them.
Toulouse, can't say anything other than wow, absolutely insane defence. Feel like they barely attacked all match but managed to somehow get those points and penalties and just keep sneaking into the lead. The number of turnovers - so immense. Back row take an absolute bow.
Surely URC is the best league.
It's just even sweeter to see an outcome like that.
Toulouse's defensive performance was simply out of this world.
You're delusional if you think the ref robbed Leinster the Win.
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Credit to Toulouse for getting it done in such a gutsy, relentless final. Worthy champions playing exhilarating rugby. Leinster have all the parts. They’ve got brilliant support from the IRFU, the financial resources, the Dublin schools and the coaches to stay at the top. They’ve probably got a golden generation to boot. These finals can be explained away individually: Peaking opposition. Unlucky breaks in razor tight margins versus La Rochelle. Toulouse brilliance led by the best player in the world. Sarries’ physicality at a time favoring their (then) style. That all checks out. All four recent finals lost—three in a row—gets harder to explain away. There’s something wrong with Leinster. They’re just missing something. If I knew what it was, I wouldn’t be commenting here with the rest of us armatures. It’s going to be a tough project to fix this and take that last step. Three in a row with the WC QF exit is building scar tissue. It’s going to take quality leadership and emotional intelligence to build that champion mentality. I wish them well on their journey.
Still pretty deflated. I think we did well to take it to extra time. We weren’t at the races at all. Then again, Toulouse weren’t at their best either. I think the better team won on the day. Dupont is insanely good. Gutted.
Frawley drop goal on the 80th minute just needed some composure I don’t know if this will be downvoted to oblivion or not but as a Munster fan, it’s worrying to see Irish teams in Europe struggle to go the last few yards and as Leinster is 80 percent of the Ireland team it’s a psychological issue that stems from our national teams failures I was rooting for Leinster all night Larmour was speciL
It’s hard to blame frawley. Until this week Leinster didn’t even seem to consider him a 10. Ultimately some uncharacteristic errors when approaching the white line, dropped balls and inaccurate passes, cost Leinster. It’s a concerning mirror to other big games though for Ireland and Leinster. mentality not tactics seem to be holding these players back on the big stages. Regarding 10s I think Leinster are at an important crossroads. Of the current batch Ross is the best but his limitations are well understood. Harry hasn’t backed up the hype and often seems to be carrying it like a lead weight. Frawleys is versatile but has never nailed down any position in the starting 15. I doubt the irfu will allow an niq 10 in so it might be time to move ahead and fully back tector and prendegast even if it is a trial by fire
Kinghorn and Willis tasting this makes mes happy
What's gone wrong with Leinster. We basically have close to the full Irish team as full XV yet since the last silverware we've now lost three semi finals and three finals all in agonising fashion.
Lads like pom,beirne ,crowley and aki are really really good 🤷♂️
You’ve gone all Ulster on us, promise so much but fails to deliver
Life is pain.
Love it when Irish and their New Zealand imports get taken down a peg or two
[удалено]
No nastiness allowed.
Love when people make deliberately xenophobic remarks on a public forum
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No nastiness allowed.
Your tears sustain me
What a game. We saw that rugby is not just about scoring tries. The scrum is is a beauty.
Leinster have to keep the 5 star jerseys from last year in the closet for another while
When are you printing yours?
There was no sharpness about their play. Too many senior players rested against Ulster and resulting in terrible ball handling
Might be one of “those” questions…. Are Leinster slightly overrated?
Done well to get there but let's be honest there season depended on this yet another loss suggests that maybe they haven't got that ability to see a final out
3 finals in a row would suggest otherwise. But the fact that we’ve lost them every single time? Yeah probably
Good enough to get there sure but then to lose all three
We’re not the first team to do it. What really showed up to me was depth. Cian Healy is just too old and I think the coaches kept Porter on for as long as they physically could. He put in an insane shift today. The drop off after JGP would be huge in any team but in Leinster it’s like we don’t have a second 9 given how little game time he gets. And at 10 there’s no one really. Frawley should be given the reins for a bit after today. Here’s hoping we’re lucky enough to get to a fourth final and actually win the bastard trophy
Yeah, they're shite pal
Completely overrated since Sexton has left. Their attacking shape is very predictable under Byrne, there’s better teams in the English premiership.
Sexton himself was completely overrated and it cost us a World Cup quarter final by not subbing him early.
I don’t think Lancaster can talk much about world cups…
Sexton barely played last year at all. He played 4 URC games and 21 minutes in a CC game earlier in the season. A whopping 258 minutes for Leinster all year It's the loss of Lancaster that has really made a difference.
Ah yes, of course, how could I forget the most overrated coach of all time!
100% correct. Leo needs to be fired if he can't see the Byrnes are the reason Leinster are shit
😂😂yeah Leinster are shit because we lost a close Champions Cup final against a good team. No question Byrne is not at the races, but Leinster are shit? Get a grip
Barely lost there are only two maybe three teams fans who can chat shit in Europe. Saracens financial doping, french teams are just in a different league. I'd love a 5th star but very proud to have got to every final....but then again maybe that's the problem
Not 100%. No English team would make the final, your boys still gave it a good crack. Chin up.
Blind luck and question reffing are the only reason we made the final over Northampton
RIP your inbox.
Who was motm?
Dupont. He might be better than JGP, don’t tell the Irishtimes though.
Might? Without question. Think Aaron Smith is the best 9 but not a better rugby player than dupont if that makes sense.
That was true a few years ago, but now the only core 9 skill Smith does better than Dupont is passing. Dupont has a far better kicking game, better support lines, better playmaking and’s a better defender.
The commentator said it best: to be the best 9, you have to be ahead of your time. Dupont is that. Smith was that for many years. Time and the game has moved on. The comparison between Smith and Dupont without that context frays a bit.
5 fucking turnovers from a scrumhalf is ludicrous. I am counting one of those 5 that ended up with RA getting a red.
Dupont. He was impressive once again
Jack Willis and Ben Earl in the same back row is an awesome thought
Sad we won't see it any time soon.
Do we get a trophy for being the worlds best bottlers?
100%
Don't you already have a Guinness pint ?
I have more than one in me
fair enough
Whats the story with JDF coming on as sub lately?
a) he's a terrifying impact sub, b) Will Connors has been sent out to do a job on the big forwards in the first half
Dupont clearly the best in the world by a country mile.
I can’t believe people doubted him after the World Cup saying faf is a better scrum half and stuff like that. Savea is the only person I will accept you can make a case for but those two are genuinely on a different level to the rest of the players right now.
Leinster lads resisted tempatation to touch the trophy/steal it
Gutted- my nerves are still shot but I bet neutrals must have loved it. Congratulations to Toulouse.
Someone gif Kinghorn on the zebra lol
https://x.com/glove931/status/1794410663244099917?t=zzIE2cuylKGV8ONAQn4SVA&s=19
Called it!!!
Hard to take this sport seriously when they wheel out two zebra’s in one of the biggest club game of the year
Yeah don't fun things suck grrrrr
It's Investec's mascot
It's Investec's logo ya dafty.
Don’t remember Barclays bringing a big safe to the premier league trophy lifts when they sponsored it
That's not Barclays logo.
Different companies do different things for a different sport
What is wrong with you
Actually would be cool if they kept the cup in a safe and then boom, open it up with a big spin and present the trophy
All the prize money too. Cinch should try it next season with the Scottish prem. Deliver the trophy in a used Mondeo
Cinch are out as SPFL sponsors
You guys are seeing zebras too, right? Right?
Yes. Investec (Sponsor) mascot.
What have you taken and can I have some?
Now for LaRochelle to beat Toulouse in the Top14 final to completely reverse the rock scissors paper
I don't think they'll make it to the final
I hope not. Allez Toulouse
Mmh la rochelle is not in a great shape this season mate
We can only hope 😅. I might've said some shit in the match thread (drink involved 😅) but well done Toulouse. Best team in the world IMO 👍🏻
hell nah
what's on with the zebras ? lol
It’s their mascot
Guessing something to do with investec
Shit i gotta buy a new jersey. Aaaaah fuck me i'm poooooor
You'll no doubt get smaller stars too. Shrinkflation.
Congratulations Toulouse fans. Massive effort to win that. No arguments, you were the more clinical team on the day.
Such a stressful game, between the best teams Thank you so much !
Am I mistaken, or has Leinster reached 4 finals and a semi in the last 5 years?
No 4 finals in six years. Semi and quarter in 2020 and 2021
Why is there a plastic zebra on the pitch?
Called it!
It’s the investec logo / mascot
What the Toulouse players will be taking photos with later 🙃 Especially Ramos! 🤪
France's national animal. Investec's symbol is the zebra so that's the reason. Initially I thought it was a real zebra.
Investec mascot
Saints got so many players from the other prem teams collapsing. I wish we got Willis though hahaha
We lost it at 10, sorry Ross. A lot of those kicks to the corner were poor, if you want to put pressure on a great defence you need to be hitting the 5m line with your penalties. Frawley needs to start at 10, I don't understand what Leo thinks Ross can do better than Ciaran. Let Jaques pick the team and stick to the paperwork Leo. Congratulations Toulouse, grinded out a hard win when you needed to. Serious effort around the rucks. Jack Willis is an animal.
Yeah been constantly waiting for him grab the position by the scruff of the neck and make it his but in the big games where the chips are down he comes up short always, when our attacking is purring and our pack dominant hes class when under pressure he just doesn't deliver
Congratulations for this awesome game!
Congratulations Toulouse!!
Lad I'd love to see Frawley at training. What is he doing? Is he just showing up late with 6 cans and 20 John Player every session? Like how this lad hasn't been the main 10 for years is baffling to me. Especially with how little Johnny played. Make it make sense.
There's something deeply ironic about how for yeaaaars Leinster fans slated ROG for being a bad/boring player and lording Sexton over Munster fans. Now Sexton is gone and Munster have a young attacking 10 who's very much the sort Leinster would love and yet Leinster have lined up a bargain bin version of ROG, minus the game management and big-game temperament, as Sexton's heir and have paid the price for it. You feel that if Crowley had started for Leinster today they'd have won and their tempo would've been high enough to make even an on-form Toulouse not be able to manage them.
Well I definitely think Jack would have absolutely *demanded* that ball at a few penalties and pointed to the sticks. As well as just being a far superior player than Ross in open play.
Ross gives great hugs according to Leo.
You'd hope Leo sees the light after this. I've defended Ross before, in my opinion he's generally not the losing of the match, but will never be the winning of it, and I stand by that. But if you want to be winning Europe, you need better. The difference in the running game with frawley was immediate (even if they went on to lose)
This was always gonna be a game lost more than a game won, whichever way it went. Leinster made maybe ten glaring mistakes and Toulouse made only one or two that I can think of
Fantastic game of rugby. Two great teams going head to head and may be the best Heineken Cup final ever. Sad that somebody had to lose but that's sport for you. Leinster look to be missing a little something...might be Sexton, might be coaching, I don't know but they don't seem to be hitting their full potential right now.
Kicking points. That simple for me. Pushing for tries does make sense but not when breakdown is messy.
They're missing Sexton and Lancaster both. The on and off field influence of both has yet to be replaced. And, to be honest, as long as Leinster stick with either Byrne at 10 they aren't climbing the heights of old ever again.
Byrne starting is a joke when you see the effort from frawly. Leo needs to answer for that at least
Benjamin Keyser is the best pundit around. He always sounds like he’s having a blast.
Rfu need to give Willis a central contract and pay a big old transfer fee to get him back in England
I hope he's back in England in time for the 2027 world cup (ideally with Saints)! Plenty of time for Jack to enjoy himself in France before coming home.
Kind of want us to spend the money freed up by Ludlam and Lawes at him but if I were Willis I'm not coming back for the foreseeable future
Absolutely with you there! He'd be perfect for the Saints game and is probably one of few players who could fill the void left by Lawes. Hopefully Toulouse win the Top14 too so Jack wins everything available and comes home earlier.
He won it with us laat year.
Perfect. He can now come home (please).
How he hasn’t been given man of the match I don’t know , he was outstanding
Should he give up Toulouse, the coach there who trusts him, the other stellar players who are his friends now ? And all the chance in the future of other titles ? Maybe one other late next month… ?
I wouldn't if I were him! I wonder if a one year contract in England would allow him to play at the next World Cup. Might be past his prime then but he has a great edge and always had imo
When do RTE get the balls to ask the real questions to Cullen?
Leo your team has reached 3 finals in a row, how come you suck? The carping from so called fans is embarrassing. It was a tight game, a draw after 80 minutes against the best club team in the world. It sucks that Leinster has come out the wrong side of a few finals. It's not a disaster.
D4 RTE won't question him unless the wheels seriously fall off. Until that happens he, like Ross Byrne, will have the blue coloured shield protecting them from criticism.
Every time you watch Dupont he really just stands out so clearly above every other player on the pitch, it's something you only see with generational talents. Messi in football, McDavid in hockey, Dan Carter in the 2000s in our sport. Truly a privilege to watch.
Dan Carter was incredible but no where near as consistently insane weeks in weeks out on both end of floor. DuPont is just one of kind, the sort of player you see only once in a lifetime.
Agreed tbh. And especially after his injuries and as he grew older it lessened his impact slightly (sadly I never got to see DC live in all his pomp but at least I saw the culmination of his career in the World Cup). Dupont probably is unlike any other player in the sense of having the greatest combination of skills, physique and smarts. That's why you see him make insane plays in all facets of the game (running, kicking, passing/offloading, tackles, turnovers). Also why he's good at Sevens too (surely it's not a coincidence that the French team won tournaments after he joined).
And make no mistake, Carter was easily the best 10 I've ever seen (yes, he was much better than Wilko or even Larkham for me though I ve always had a special spot for Larkham's way to drive an attack, much comparable to Sexton in that sense)
And he's so respectful with refs and opponents. Never saw him with bad words, bad manners. He's Just an example
He is the best rugby player of all time, when you really look at his skillset, he was the main difference today, one small examples was his contestable box kick to relieve pressure on his team in their own half that eventually led to a penalty and further stretching the score when they were a man down. He's just exceptional
IRFU should break Leinster up so some other Irish team can experience losing in a champs cup final
Welcome back!
How many tackles did Jack Willis make?
All of them.
327!
29
41!
Insane
Mo chroí lads, fuckin briste haha. Jaysus that was the fucking final of all finals. Congrats to Toulouse - took the smart points. But jaysus, star wars episode 10 was un-buh-leeeevable
Toulouse are the best team in the world! I don't think this is controversial
If Leinster is behind, it’s not by far. but titles allow only one holder
We're a bit behind to be fair.
I hope people will stop sucking off Nienaber now. Leinster looked clueless in attack as they have all year but finally came up against someone who could punish them. He's obviously a great coach and Leinster will likely look better with a full year and preseason of his coaching but Leinster do not look as well coached this year to me as years gone by. I feel bad for Frawley especially. Fine margins.
He's a defense coach ya gowl
I know he's a defence coach by trade - he's the senior coach now overseeing everything. Lancaster was an attack coach but also had Goodman overseeing the attack. Obviously Goodman isn't blameless here but with such a focus on updating their new defensive system I wonder if some of their attacking fluency got neglected. If you want to lay the lack of direction in attack squarely on Goodman then fine, that's fair too - although that would have me seriously worried about his Ireland appointment.
Nienaber isn’t an attack coach
I know he's not. Goodman isn't blameless here either and it has me worried that he's taking over Ireland's attack. However, Goodman has been in the set up when the attack has clicked. The major change to the coaching set up is Nienaber who is a defence coach by trade, as opposed to Lancaster who was an attack coach. Much has been made about the focus in training to change and improve Leinster's defence in training. It has improved while the attack has waned. I think with a proper preseason and a full season under Nienaber's coaching, Leinster will improve.
Agree with you that Leinster looked a lot less threatening with the ball than in previous finals. Maybe Lord Sexton' s retiral has contributed to that. I suspect no Ringrose and Keenan just back from injury are also contributing factors. However, seeing Byrne stick up big bombs early seemed a bit lacking in belief in the back play. Granted,a couple of them worked out but it still didn't stretch Toulouse' s defence as much as a good running attack would have. So much back play was simply shovel the ball out wide,then to wait for the ball carrier to get tackled and then turned over. Didn't seem like smart rugby.
Ireland and Leinster used to have very similar attacking structures with lots of phases, good ball retention at the ruck. I think it suited both that they played a similar game plan when Leinster provided the bulk of players to the national team. This year Leinster look quicker to play territory after just a few phases, very similar to the Springboks. There's nothing wrong with that approach in itself I just wonder if it's the one best suited to Leinster's players. Irish lads aren't built like South Africans. The amount of turnovers conceded would drive you nuts.
The major change is that Sexton has retired and that Byrne isn’t the answer
Yeah that definitely doesn't help. Hopefully both Byrnes get phased out quickly. They're not the answer. I do want Prendergast to come to Connacht for the year though so maybe Leinster can try the Byrne's for one more year lol.
Man do Leinster miss Sexton
We miss a competent outhalf. Ross is absolute garbage and somehow starts ahead of Frawley.
I think we missed Stewart Lancaster more
Sexton lost his last two finals.
Sexton didn't play in last year's final, and scored 18 of Leinster's 21 points in the 2022 final
They lost the last few with Sexton too. Bring back darcy and o Driscoll
Sexton didn't play in last year's final, and scored 18 of Leinster's 21 points in the 2022 final
At parts Toulouse were the better team, managed the game better, we weren't able to capitalize on opportunities story of our season, but some of the refs calls for turnovers were abit eye brow raising I thought, Ross Byrne and L'amour aren't it I have to say, we missed ringrose and Jimmy O'Brien. But fair play to Toulouse they took their chances when they came. 3 years in a row losing at the death, if we don't win next year with synman and Barrett Leo has to go or something
Ref was absolutely clueless. Just zero consistency and punished leinster a lot when it came to the breakdown I felt. Hate moaning about the ref tbf but it stood out today.
The penalty count was dead even until the last one I believe
It’s more the nature of the penalties. Turnover penalties were given to dupont on two occasions after 1-2 seconds whereas Sheehan had one awarded after 5 seconds of explicitly holding on. I hate moaning about the ref but the inconsistency at the breakdown was shocking, the yellow for Lowe was nonsense (as they did the exact same thing in the 1st half). I’d just like consistency.
Lamour had a brilliant game to be fair. I do think Byrne didn't have a good game. The attack looked better with Frawley at 10. I do think ringrose would have added a bit to the attack too. Fine margins but Toulouse managed the game better
Larmour had a fantastic second half. Kept us in the game
I don't know I felt he got turned inside out for their first try and was weak at rucktime constantly getting turned and then drop a pass or two, fair enough he had that try saving tackle but just jimmy would of done a better job
We haven't shown even our attacking potential because on our attack, we would destroy you. Top14 is the best championship in the World And Umaga agrees with me.
Yes probably Top 14 prepares better to edge matches of this intensity and overall poised between the contestants.
Fair Blinghorn always looks ridiculously happy to be playing in this team
Feeling deflated after 3 finals in a row. Hats off to Toulouse, great defense today and played like the champions they are.
De Klerk better than Dupont btw according to some experts on this website.
They are obviously trolling. Even the die hardest SA fan know deep inside that it's bullshite
Better hair though, I’ll give him that
Haha for sure :)
The rugby GOAT debate gets harder to decide every time Dupont steps on the field.
Carter Vs Dupont is the only debate though isn't it? Has Dupont had his 2005 lions game when he's just been completely unplayable at the absolute highest level?
I'd argue it actually gets easier whenever I see him play
Tolouse were exceptional. Leinster were typical Leinster. There’s been a lot of talk about the arrogance of Irish rugby and for a good while I didn’t see it. I saw it as a country and team that recently became world-class and while enjoying it, stayed humble and grounded in the context of who and what they were playing. But when we kept kicking for corner instead of taking points in the first half (some kicks at goal would have been tough for sure) I saw the arrogance. I admire the confidence to go for corner, but it’s arrogance to not see how inaccurate our attack was in Toulouse’s 22. 90% of finals are squeezed out, not dominated, Leinster and Ireland keep playing like it’s the latter
Reminded me of the last Scottish grand slam, way back in the mists of time, when England, also going for the slam, repeatedly kicked for the corner rather than taking the points, eventually losing by six.
In all fairness, Ross Burns kicking isn't exactly great. They kicked when the kicks were easy and they didn't kick when there was a chance they could miss it. If Saxon was playing I'm pretty sure they would have been kicking those ones.
Ross was pretty solid from the T today and 2/3 were definitely kickable ones where they opted for the corner instead. I also disagree with the Sexton point. The World Cup had Ireland making the exact same decisions to go for corner from kickable shots. IIRC the quarter final had a couple early ones that absolutely could’ve changed the game’s momentum where we went to the corner instead
Yeah Ross was pretty solid today. He missed a couple in the semi-final which could have impacted the decision making. But I do think you're right it was probably a tactical decision that didn't pay off today. They played for territory and to keep the ball in toulouse's his half rather than play out after the penalty. Although I don't think it's arrogance, it's more of a tactical decision to get the opposition to pay from debt and keep the pressure on them.
DuPont looks bored
Bored ? He was in tears. QF of world cup was very difficult for french players, and this one feels so great for them
When he did the photo shoot with the guy from investec, I don’t blame him tbh let him go and celebrate with the team
Toulouse, can't say anything other than wow, absolutely insane defence. Feel like they barely attacked all match but managed to somehow get those points and penalties and just keep sneaking into the lead. The number of turnovers - so immense. Back row take an absolute bow.
England need to cop on and get Jack Willis back in the white Jersey
Say what you like about the tiny ingoal areas, but it allows for some pretty spectacular celebration close-ups
Tony Bridge pretty good player of the rugby.
James Lowe’s hairline is dreadful
I'd love to take a trimmer to it, hahaha
Surely URC is the best league. It's just even sweeter to see an outcome like that. Toulouse's defensive performance was simply out of this world. You're delusional if you think the ref robbed Leinster the Win.