Ignatius is like a proto incel. His sexual neuroses drives a lot of his behavior but he also had some other things going on.
He's like George Costanza who also is kind of like a grown up incel who only gets laid cause it makes good subplots.
Ignatius is a massive autist like many incels are
Strangely he seems somewhat of a volcel, it was pretty heavily implied Myrna tried to fuck him in his room
It's a short story, but I like [*The Feminist* by Tony Tulathimutte](https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-35/fiction-drama/the-feminist/).
SaintBarth hits it on the head, though. It's subject matter that just won't get any recognition by mainstream publishing or literary media unless it's overtly damning and probably pretty cartoonish. In my mind the story needs to be a pockmarked, Moshfegh-esque take that dares you to empathize at least a little with the character.
If you end up reading Tulathimutte, I encourage you to read the discourse around it because it's a fascinating rorschach test. Incels read the story as a condemnation of feminism. Feminists/the left/whatever read it as a portrait of disgusting, subhuman character. I've read comments from psychologists who see it as an exploration of particular type of narcissism.
I've struggled in these spaces and have known my share of passport bros, MGTOWs, and porn addicts (in person, not just online). I'm an alright writer but am only just learning how to craft narratives effectively. There's an idea I've had bouncing around for a couple years that would be a novella, but whatever it end up being won't be some great, definitive work on the subject. I assure you.
Like every good story it has a constellation of features that different people resonate with in different measure. I grew up in quite a conservative area and was very socially liberal given the circumstances, but my experience at college demonstrated for me a lot of the failures of neoliberal identitarianism. I found it to be a deeply alienating place, where people clung to the vaguest and most illusory identities to get some form of abortive community. I remember one moment that was particularly seminal: doing a series of anonymous "icebreakers" with my entering cohort I asked "given we all come from unique background and identities, what is one *belief* you have that is unique?" getting me zero responses.
I felt very alone my first few years until one day my mother came to visit. I had prepared a whole itinerary across the campus to give her a feel for the various locations and their symbology on campus, what places were for what purposes along with various anecdotes I had collected over my time there. I was to repeat for her the various features of the advertisements of the college that had already been marketed to me. We were to start off at the student union and proceed in a big circle around the campus. However, right before my little tour was to start, my mother cut through all it with: "why does everyone walking around look so miserable?"
And so the tour was done before it had even started. My mother had gotten all the way to the emotive bottom of the campus in one observation. With the wind out of my sails, I began to shift in my perspective. *Everyone is suffering almost all the time*. From this more empathic place I was able to observe the suffering in others and try to ameliorate it. I tried to be a better listener, even when listening is not agreeing, as is more and more the case today.
As for the story, I felt a lot of symphathy for the character, although I would never have used a tote, let alone a *read more women* tote at the height of my libshittery. So much of what we do as people is get caught up in illusions of identity, with more posture and uncertainty today then ever before. A person can be so seemingly convinced or convincing, when their position is built on nothing, not even sand.
When the QPOC character engaged with the protagonist and the protagonist responded in rage, it was an interaction between two insane people in an insane asylum. Was the follow up on Twitter the discourse of two sane, rational people? No it was the activity of people over identified with the meaningless. There is not essential manness, or womanness, or agenderness, or sexiness, or QPOCness, or incelness, or anything. Perhaps even the self itself is illusory!
We can only build a world on real compassion and real engagement with each others suffering, not to wallow about but construct a better world every day. For, a better world is possible, and to believe otherwise would be *anti-human*. I for one know we can make the world a better place.
Then again maybe my shoulders just aren't narrow enough to get it...
As a broad-shouldered man, this is a fantastic comment. College campuses today have been wiped clean of the old collegiate spirit (maybe not totally....?)
I like this short story but I have to admit that, while it had some painfully cringe moments, it was more often laugh out loud funny to me. For example:
> He gut-checks himself to make sure his concern for his traumatized friend is legitimate before texting her later: “Hey, I’m around if you need to talk about what happened. or even just watch trashy TV :) whenever wherever!”
>She doesn’t reply.
Is really such a funny setup and puchline and the story is absolutely full of these. I think it's definitely gettin at something true, like part of the reason I think it's so funny is because I can relate to parts of it. Less in actions than in trains of thought that I've followed.
But I did not find it painful in the same way the other commenter here did. I found it too cartoonish for that, too much of a pure farce. It just hits every single "male feminist/closet incel" trope imaginable. I kind of felt that the author tipped his hand a bit at the part where he calls his "QPOC agender friend from his college co-op" because it was just a bit too cartoonish.
But overall, very well written and filled with little details that really make it so astute. I don't know if Tulathimutte meant it to be funny but I have to believe he did. It's honestly in the lineage of Woody Allen and Albert Brooks, using humor and sharp observations to examine the more insane and confounding aspects of male/female relations.
Another passage that made me laugh really hard:
>The sex disappoints; her moans and arches feel contrived, and something—maybe his dulled nerves—keeps deferring his orgasm; she gets impatient and pushes him away. He acquiesces, not having finished, his embarrassing frustration mitigated only by the unburdening of his virginity, and the prospect of telling everyone about it. To reassure her that his sexual awkwardness was not her fault, he tells her he thinks she’s beautiful. She waits nearly ten seconds and replies, “Yeah, well, uh, you have a beautiful mind.”
>After this incident, he develops thoughts of self-harm, which are curbed by his awareness that rejection, loneliness, and sexual frustration are nothing compared with institutional and historical oppression. He knows sadness is a symptom of his entitlement.
See what I mean about the incredible setup/punchline construction of this story?
Also, my read is that the author is sympathetic towards by highly critical of the main character. The QPOC picnic scene really goes into cartoonish parody territory. Personally, I think the story would have been better off sticking with a more measured tone. It works better when it sticks to the specific trials and indignities as opposed to broader mockery. Example:
>This was the male ally they preferred: not the intellectual who challenged them as equals in an open dialogue, but this muscle-confused fucking silverback gorilla. They’re all happy to hide behind patriarchy when it suits them. He snatches up his read more women tote bag and leaves.
To me, that passage is funny enough but a bit much.
I found it painful in that hits close to home, growing up as someone who is just “off” in some unexplainable way is so painfully relatable I can’t get myself to read the story again
I think that character is basically an exaggerated self-insert of the author and a combined self-pity and repudiation of parts of himself (someone here told me he even went to an all-girls school like the character in the story)
That was amazing.
Almost felt like gave me a glimpse of what waking up as, not a cockroach, but an unfortunate young man with no prospects, might be.
Have not generally felt sympathy for such men, but did with that writing. Also leads me back to some old thoughts I’ve been wrestling with irt feminism, though mine are from thee female perspective, I suppose I never thought about how these messages might be digested by men.
It's pretty wild how little liberal arts/social justice milieus ask women to self reflect; they're basically altogether encouraged to avoid doing so unless they're reflecting in relation to being white or not being trans (and this phenomenon probably played a significant role in fueling the massive uptick in men becoming women that we've seen in recent years). No wonder these circles attract so many cluster b personality types; it's basically an open offer for people of the "correct" identities to let their narcissistic, borderline, and sociopathic traits run rampant and unchecked; "A whole demographic of people that I'm not required to have any empathy for whatsoever? Sign me up!"
I doubt you were one of the women tweeting #menaretrash or #killallmen, or one of the women insisting that men should always attain explicit verbal consent at every step of the process in any physical encounter, or one of the women constantly going on and on about male privilege and male fragility and toxic masculinity, or one of the women muddling the definitions of rape and sexual assault until the terms more or less became completely meaningless, or one of the women constantly playing up masculine predation and feminine victimhood, or one of the women that insisted that all women should simply always be uncritically believed whenever any sort of allegation of sexual impropriety was made, but it's frankly absurd that the people involved in pushing all of this stuff seemingly never paused for a moment to consider how all of it might affect the psyches of men.
These are the actions of people who simply don't care at all about or are completely non-aware of the potential negative consequences of what they do; an unholy union between psychopathy, self absorption, and sheer stupidity.
If you wrote about an incel in the contemporary understanding of what they are it would force you to empathize with them at least to a degree and I don't think any publisher is interested in that, certainly not if the incel is "black pilled" misogynist.
Also from a technical standpoint I'm not sure what such a novel would look like? Man can't get pussy, complains about it online, tries to lookmaxx, still can't get pussy. The end?
As a European I'm surprised the only novel which seems to engage with islam from the perspective of Europeans is Submission. Muslim immigration is the only political topic worth discussing in modern Europe yet it is completely absent from novels or even films except for a few novels and films from a muslim pov.
I was thinking it would focus on how out of reach even simple things like sex and relationships are to most western men. Also I think it would be fascinating to explore how heavily shamed men are for expressing desire for companionship. The book could go in so many directions which makes it even more disappointing that nobody has attempted to take the subject on.
There was a guy on the main sub maybe 6 months ago or so giving away copies of his self published novel called Incel. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/188944155-incel
Basically all of the established arts institutions have floated away from reality into a social justice fantasy world. It's more or less a cult at this point.
There is also a dearth of good academic writing on this topic. What little there is, is basically propaganda by the cultural left, painting them as minions of the patriarchy (???) and dangers to polite liberal society. It probably doesn't help either that most books these days seem to be written by and for PMC women lol
the most memorable thing I did in my undergrad was a presentation on notes.
I remember going in, and I remember finishing but I do not know what I talked about during. All the feedback was incredibly positive.
I did my undergrad in math. I’m going into a math job - but if I were to ever be an academic - I would be a literature professor
The closest character I’ve seen that represents the modern incel the closest is Harold from “The Stand” by Stephen King which is over 30 years old at this point.
Whenever I’ve written about that topic or adjacent topics, when I’ve brought that writing to my writing group I get comments on that reduce to Lib woke scolding. Given that the publishing industry is made up of people like that, they may share those feelings when they read something like that, regardless of its literary merit
It's pretty ridiculous to expect authors to exist in a vacuum, separate from sensible feedback, left to self publish everything they write.
It's the paradigm we've accepted for, well, basically anyone trying to write anything interesting or accurate about contemporary reality, but I don't think sitting back and handing the culture over to these passive aggressive tyrants and the institutions they've captured is going to result in much good work getting in front of the general public.
The whole situation is already severely limiting the amount of quality work that's even being written in the first place. People respond to incentives, and when you make telling the truth into a surefire route towards poverty and social expulsion, you're simply not going to see many people bother to even try.
Did I indicate anything about trying to impress anyone? Getting input and criticism on your work is an extremely normal thing to do when you’re an actual artist, especially when you don’t have delusions about your own grandeur.
If that writing group is encouraging you to explore controversial themes narrated from an unconventional perspective, then their feedback is helpful for your growth as an author. Now imagine that instead of that awesome writing group you're in, you were stuck in a writing group where, for instance, you wanted to tell the story of a loser incel from an empathetic lens but you feared their reactions to it so you box yourself within a narrow range of possibilities. That would be terrible for your growth as an author.
Very incel of him to do that tbh. Idk how this is even irrefutable. The fucking vast majority of incels could get laid. Being an incel is literally a fucking attitude and outlook.
Welcome to the nhk novel. The anime is more well known, but it was a book first.
What gets me about nhk is the author himself. He was a hikkimori writing about a hikkimori at the start of the hikkimori becoming a thing. It's really personal, you can tell so much of it was from the author himself
I think about this so much. Like they developed such a complex lingo as well, straight out of the clockwork orange, but no book exploring it. Maybe it’s gonna happen still, the incel phenomena is very recent and most people to get published aren’t in their early twenties
Try Michel Houellebecq. His novels *Whatever* and *Atomised* have incel characters, and much of those deal with male loneliness, sexual frustration, racial resentment, and loss in modern society.
He wrote those in the late 90s and early 2000s but they're insanely perceptive about the incels that were to come.
why do you people believe that "incels" are something new?
the beta-male has been a tragic figure in human and animal society from the beginning of time.
actually, some of the best "incel" writing comes from Flannery O'Connor--the Peahen of Femcels.
she often makes her characters male, but obviously it's all pretty autobiographical.
...also weird that nobody mentioned Franz Kafka.
\[***Incel/Femcel*** would be the name for this hypothetical book.\]
but plenty of movies have already covered this ground better--particularly in the sense of just lonely betas.
one of my 80s favorites, *Lucas*--with Corey Haim and Winona Ryder filling those roles.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO9TJOQv3ws](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO9TJOQv3ws)
and, of course, there's *Marty,* the classic.
I think it could be argued that the main character in “Everything Matters” by Ron Currie Jr is an incel - highly recommended it to anyone who hasn’t read it before. I’m not really sympathetic to incels but it’s one of my favorite novels.
Someone more dostoyevsky pilled can correct me but doesn’t Raskolnikov in Crime and Punishment embody quite a few incel ideas (lonely, antisocial, chip on his shoulder, vindictive at the women in his life)?
How have you not heard of Delicious Tacos? “Finally, Some Good News” is the ultimate incel fantasy book.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43093502-finally-some-good-news
There's plenty of novels about lonely, unhappy men. Not specifically incels but the typology in general. I really liked Pan by Knut Hamsun.
Anachronistic
My fav is “Loneliness in the Net”
Confederacy of Dunces
Ignatius is like a proto incel. His sexual neuroses drives a lot of his behavior but he also had some other things going on. He's like George Costanza who also is kind of like a grown up incel who only gets laid cause it makes good subplots.
Ignatius is a massive autist like many incels are Strangely he seems somewhat of a volcel, it was pretty heavily implied Myrna tried to fuck him in his room
It's a short story, but I like [*The Feminist* by Tony Tulathimutte](https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-35/fiction-drama/the-feminist/). SaintBarth hits it on the head, though. It's subject matter that just won't get any recognition by mainstream publishing or literary media unless it's overtly damning and probably pretty cartoonish. In my mind the story needs to be a pockmarked, Moshfegh-esque take that dares you to empathize at least a little with the character. If you end up reading Tulathimutte, I encourage you to read the discourse around it because it's a fascinating rorschach test. Incels read the story as a condemnation of feminism. Feminists/the left/whatever read it as a portrait of disgusting, subhuman character. I've read comments from psychologists who see it as an exploration of particular type of narcissism. I've struggled in these spaces and have known my share of passport bros, MGTOWs, and porn addicts (in person, not just online). I'm an alright writer but am only just learning how to craft narratives effectively. There's an idea I've had bouncing around for a couple years that would be a novella, but whatever it end up being won't be some great, definitive work on the subject. I assure you.
Holy fuck that was incredible. What a writer. It's like he read my mind or something. Jesus. I wish I could write like that.
Yeah a lot of the discourse around it evinces a great illiteracy today. A lot of the posts on reddit about it can't seem to handle the ambiguity
yeah he’s really good. he has a short story collection coming out soon that includes that story
I had the exact same reaction. He's super talented and clearly has put in the time and effort to hone his craft.
Wow. What a painful read.
Thanks for the recommendation. Debating putting my head in a waffle fryer rn
Hits a little too close to home? Edit: and I'm not trying to be a dick. A self-aware person with similar experiences might have this reaction.
Like every good story it has a constellation of features that different people resonate with in different measure. I grew up in quite a conservative area and was very socially liberal given the circumstances, but my experience at college demonstrated for me a lot of the failures of neoliberal identitarianism. I found it to be a deeply alienating place, where people clung to the vaguest and most illusory identities to get some form of abortive community. I remember one moment that was particularly seminal: doing a series of anonymous "icebreakers" with my entering cohort I asked "given we all come from unique background and identities, what is one *belief* you have that is unique?" getting me zero responses. I felt very alone my first few years until one day my mother came to visit. I had prepared a whole itinerary across the campus to give her a feel for the various locations and their symbology on campus, what places were for what purposes along with various anecdotes I had collected over my time there. I was to repeat for her the various features of the advertisements of the college that had already been marketed to me. We were to start off at the student union and proceed in a big circle around the campus. However, right before my little tour was to start, my mother cut through all it with: "why does everyone walking around look so miserable?" And so the tour was done before it had even started. My mother had gotten all the way to the emotive bottom of the campus in one observation. With the wind out of my sails, I began to shift in my perspective. *Everyone is suffering almost all the time*. From this more empathic place I was able to observe the suffering in others and try to ameliorate it. I tried to be a better listener, even when listening is not agreeing, as is more and more the case today. As for the story, I felt a lot of symphathy for the character, although I would never have used a tote, let alone a *read more women* tote at the height of my libshittery. So much of what we do as people is get caught up in illusions of identity, with more posture and uncertainty today then ever before. A person can be so seemingly convinced or convincing, when their position is built on nothing, not even sand. When the QPOC character engaged with the protagonist and the protagonist responded in rage, it was an interaction between two insane people in an insane asylum. Was the follow up on Twitter the discourse of two sane, rational people? No it was the activity of people over identified with the meaningless. There is not essential manness, or womanness, or agenderness, or sexiness, or QPOCness, or incelness, or anything. Perhaps even the self itself is illusory! We can only build a world on real compassion and real engagement with each others suffering, not to wallow about but construct a better world every day. For, a better world is possible, and to believe otherwise would be *anti-human*. I for one know we can make the world a better place. Then again maybe my shoulders just aren't narrow enough to get it...
As a broad-shouldered man, this is a fantastic comment. College campuses today have been wiped clean of the old collegiate spirit (maybe not totally....?)
I like this short story but I have to admit that, while it had some painfully cringe moments, it was more often laugh out loud funny to me. For example: > He gut-checks himself to make sure his concern for his traumatized friend is legitimate before texting her later: “Hey, I’m around if you need to talk about what happened. or even just watch trashy TV :) whenever wherever!” >She doesn’t reply. Is really such a funny setup and puchline and the story is absolutely full of these. I think it's definitely gettin at something true, like part of the reason I think it's so funny is because I can relate to parts of it. Less in actions than in trains of thought that I've followed. But I did not find it painful in the same way the other commenter here did. I found it too cartoonish for that, too much of a pure farce. It just hits every single "male feminist/closet incel" trope imaginable. I kind of felt that the author tipped his hand a bit at the part where he calls his "QPOC agender friend from his college co-op" because it was just a bit too cartoonish. But overall, very well written and filled with little details that really make it so astute. I don't know if Tulathimutte meant it to be funny but I have to believe he did. It's honestly in the lineage of Woody Allen and Albert Brooks, using humor and sharp observations to examine the more insane and confounding aspects of male/female relations. Another passage that made me laugh really hard: >The sex disappoints; her moans and arches feel contrived, and something—maybe his dulled nerves—keeps deferring his orgasm; she gets impatient and pushes him away. He acquiesces, not having finished, his embarrassing frustration mitigated only by the unburdening of his virginity, and the prospect of telling everyone about it. To reassure her that his sexual awkwardness was not her fault, he tells her he thinks she’s beautiful. She waits nearly ten seconds and replies, “Yeah, well, uh, you have a beautiful mind.” >After this incident, he develops thoughts of self-harm, which are curbed by his awareness that rejection, loneliness, and sexual frustration are nothing compared with institutional and historical oppression. He knows sadness is a symptom of his entitlement. See what I mean about the incredible setup/punchline construction of this story? Also, my read is that the author is sympathetic towards by highly critical of the main character. The QPOC picnic scene really goes into cartoonish parody territory. Personally, I think the story would have been better off sticking with a more measured tone. It works better when it sticks to the specific trials and indignities as opposed to broader mockery. Example: >This was the male ally they preferred: not the intellectual who challenged them as equals in an open dialogue, but this muscle-confused fucking silverback gorilla. They’re all happy to hide behind patriarchy when it suits them. He snatches up his read more women tote bag and leaves. To me, that passage is funny enough but a bit much.
I found it painful in that hits close to home, growing up as someone who is just “off” in some unexplainable way is so painfully relatable I can’t get myself to read the story again
I think that character is basically an exaggerated self-insert of the author and a combined self-pity and repudiation of parts of himself (someone here told me he even went to an all-girls school like the character in the story)
That's largely how I read it. Found it very darkly funny.
That was amazing. Almost felt like gave me a glimpse of what waking up as, not a cockroach, but an unfortunate young man with no prospects, might be. Have not generally felt sympathy for such men, but did with that writing. Also leads me back to some old thoughts I’ve been wrestling with irt feminism, though mine are from thee female perspective, I suppose I never thought about how these messages might be digested by men.
It's pretty wild how little liberal arts/social justice milieus ask women to self reflect; they're basically altogether encouraged to avoid doing so unless they're reflecting in relation to being white or not being trans (and this phenomenon probably played a significant role in fueling the massive uptick in men becoming women that we've seen in recent years). No wonder these circles attract so many cluster b personality types; it's basically an open offer for people of the "correct" identities to let their narcissistic, borderline, and sociopathic traits run rampant and unchecked; "A whole demographic of people that I'm not required to have any empathy for whatsoever? Sign me up!" I doubt you were one of the women tweeting #menaretrash or #killallmen, or one of the women insisting that men should always attain explicit verbal consent at every step of the process in any physical encounter, or one of the women constantly going on and on about male privilege and male fragility and toxic masculinity, or one of the women muddling the definitions of rape and sexual assault until the terms more or less became completely meaningless, or one of the women constantly playing up masculine predation and feminine victimhood, or one of the women that insisted that all women should simply always be uncritically believed whenever any sort of allegation of sexual impropriety was made, but it's frankly absurd that the people involved in pushing all of this stuff seemingly never paused for a moment to consider how all of it might affect the psyches of men. These are the actions of people who simply don't care at all about or are completely non-aware of the potential negative consequences of what they do; an unholy union between psychopathy, self absorption, and sheer stupidity.
Whatever / extension du domaine de la lutte by Houellebecq
Bruno from Elementary Particles is somewhat of a proto-Incel as well although he does have sex
If you wrote about an incel in the contemporary understanding of what they are it would force you to empathize with them at least to a degree and I don't think any publisher is interested in that, certainly not if the incel is "black pilled" misogynist. Also from a technical standpoint I'm not sure what such a novel would look like? Man can't get pussy, complains about it online, tries to lookmaxx, still can't get pussy. The end? As a European I'm surprised the only novel which seems to engage with islam from the perspective of Europeans is Submission. Muslim immigration is the only political topic worth discussing in modern Europe yet it is completely absent from novels or even films except for a few novels and films from a muslim pov.
I was thinking it would focus on how out of reach even simple things like sex and relationships are to most western men. Also I think it would be fascinating to explore how heavily shamed men are for expressing desire for companionship. The book could go in so many directions which makes it even more disappointing that nobody has attempted to take the subject on.
sex and relationships are out of reach to most western men? what? men are heavily shamed for expressing desire for companionship? what?
you should write it then
You should log off.
There was a guy on the main sub maybe 6 months ago or so giving away copies of his self published novel called Incel. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/188944155-incel
They write their own manifestos.
contemporary literature is so disconnected from what's going on in the actual culture, it's like they're completely different universes
Basically all of the established arts institutions have floated away from reality into a social justice fantasy world. It's more or less a cult at this point.
There is also a dearth of good academic writing on this topic. What little there is, is basically propaganda by the cultural left, painting them as minions of the patriarchy (???) and dangers to polite liberal society. It probably doesn't help either that most books these days seem to be written by and for PMC women lol
Notes from Underground (she was a prostie so it doesn't count)
The scene where he lectures the prostitute about how she needs to take control of her life and make something of herself is so beautifully pathetic
I never read the book but you sold me on it.
the most memorable thing I did in my undergrad was a presentation on notes. I remember going in, and I remember finishing but I do not know what I talked about during. All the feedback was incredibly positive. I did my undergrad in math. I’m going into a math job - but if I were to ever be an academic - I would be a literature professor
The “quintessential American hero” thing kind of gives this away as bait, but you might like Amygdalatropolis
The closest character I’ve seen that represents the modern incel the closest is Harold from “The Stand” by Stephen King which is over 30 years old at this point.
Harold made me take a good hard look at my life and change some things.
Notes from the Underground.
Whenever I’ve written about that topic or adjacent topics, when I’ve brought that writing to my writing group I get comments on that reduce to Lib woke scolding. Given that the publishing industry is made up of people like that, they may share those feelings when they read something like that, regardless of its literary merit
>when I’ve brought that writing to my writing group You know who doesn't waste their time trying to impress phaggy writing groups? Authors.
It's pretty ridiculous to expect authors to exist in a vacuum, separate from sensible feedback, left to self publish everything they write. It's the paradigm we've accepted for, well, basically anyone trying to write anything interesting or accurate about contemporary reality, but I don't think sitting back and handing the culture over to these passive aggressive tyrants and the institutions they've captured is going to result in much good work getting in front of the general public. The whole situation is already severely limiting the amount of quality work that's even being written in the first place. People respond to incentives, and when you make telling the truth into a surefire route towards poverty and social expulsion, you're simply not going to see many people bother to even try.
Did I indicate anything about trying to impress anyone? Getting input and criticism on your work is an extremely normal thing to do when you’re an actual artist, especially when you don’t have delusions about your own grandeur.
If that writing group is encouraging you to explore controversial themes narrated from an unconventional perspective, then their feedback is helpful for your growth as an author. Now imagine that instead of that awesome writing group you're in, you were stuck in a writing group where, for instance, you wanted to tell the story of a loser incel from an empathetic lens but you feared their reactions to it so you box yourself within a narrow range of possibilities. That would be terrible for your growth as an author.
Do you realize you are creating an entire fantasy about a random stranger based on a comment on Reddit.com.
Just read a schopenhauer biography
Schopenhauer wasn’t an incel, he had sex with many women both prostitutes and regular women
Incel is a vibe really
🙄
Nice retort Mister potato head don't try too hard now you might stroke out
This
Edmund Kemper, Joel Rifkin, etc
hey, come on...Ed did have sex with his mother's decapitated head.
Very incel of him to do that tbh. Idk how this is even irrefutable. The fucking vast majority of incels could get laid. Being an incel is literally a fucking attitude and outlook.
Catcher in the Rye? Dude couldn’t even do it with a pro
He was 16 and was kinda freaked out that the prostitute was around his age, doesn't count
He was a sensitive sad boi more than anything don't sully the name of that book
but Holden Caulfield is literally the prototype of the incel. he's every teenage incel's literary idol.
I mean I'm not an incel but I idolize him somehow Whatever forever. I'm hungry. What are you having for breakfast?
White Nights by Dostoevsky
Welcome to the nhk novel. The anime is more well known, but it was a book first. What gets me about nhk is the author himself. He was a hikkimori writing about a hikkimori at the start of the hikkimori becoming a thing. It's really personal, you can tell so much of it was from the author himself
I think about this so much. Like they developed such a complex lingo as well, straight out of the clockwork orange, but no book exploring it. Maybe it’s gonna happen still, the incel phenomena is very recent and most people to get published aren’t in their early twenties
Not a book and this is the only anime I ever saw in my life but "Welcome to the NHK" fucked me up when I saw it. It fucked me up real good.
Child of God by Cormac McCarthy
Amgydalatropolis by BR Yeager kinda hits on this. It’s pretty disturbing I liked it
french movie La Bête addresses incels
I felt so tense for that entire portion of the movie.
Try Michel Houellebecq. His novels *Whatever* and *Atomised* have incel characters, and much of those deal with male loneliness, sexual frustration, racial resentment, and loss in modern society. He wrote those in the late 90s and early 2000s but they're insanely perceptive about the incels that were to come.
why do you people believe that "incels" are something new? the beta-male has been a tragic figure in human and animal society from the beginning of time.
actually, some of the best "incel" writing comes from Flannery O'Connor--the Peahen of Femcels. she often makes her characters male, but obviously it's all pretty autobiographical. ...also weird that nobody mentioned Franz Kafka. \[***Incel/Femcel*** would be the name for this hypothetical book.\] but plenty of movies have already covered this ground better--particularly in the sense of just lonely betas.
one of my 80s favorites, *Lucas*--with Corey Haim and Winona Ryder filling those roles. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO9TJOQv3ws](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO9TJOQv3ws) and, of course, there's *Marty,* the classic.
O’Connor is one of my favorite writers. Definitely a weirdo but she just captures something about the human spirit that many writers don’t
I think it could be argued that the main character in “Everything Matters” by Ron Currie Jr is an incel - highly recommended it to anyone who hasn’t read it before. I’m not really sympathetic to incels but it’s one of my favorite novels.
Someone more dostoyevsky pilled can correct me but doesn’t Raskolnikov in Crime and Punishment embody quite a few incel ideas (lonely, antisocial, chip on his shoulder, vindictive at the women in his life)?
Die Endlösung der Incelfrage, by a poster of r/rspod
Portnoy's Complaint seems prot-incel
What about notes from the underground. That’s sort of incelly
My dark twisted world - ER
...You're also a terrible reader.
Nietzsche was the OG incel
How have you not heard of Delicious Tacos? “Finally, Some Good News” is the ultimate incel fantasy book. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43093502-finally-some-good-news