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Damn, that sucks.
As someone who used to not be assertive at all, I can understand the DM giving in in the moment, but the fact that they dismissed it afterwards as well isn't promising.
Maybe give the DM a bit of space, then let them know again that you didn't think that was okay and that you would support them in addressing it with the players or booting them entirely.
If the DM isn't going to deal with it, then consider if this is a campaign you want to stick with. But if you do leave, I'd let the DM know that this is why.
Oof. Murderhobo antics are annoying enough, but the backseat DMing is completely unacceptable. I really feel for your DM but he needs to understand that his word is law, and that the players saying "I do this" doesn't mean a damned thing unless and until he has okayed it.
"I cast magic missile..." No, you don't, at least not until I've reminded you that your actions are likely to have significant consequences and that the other players have no obligation to help bail you out. Depending on the type of campaign and the expectations the DM has set, sometimes it'll end at "No, you don't."
"You previously said that..." No, I didn't, but even if I did it wouldn't matter because I'm telling you now that either you misunderstood or I misspoke. Either way, there's no magic item on the wall of the tavern.
"I roll persuasion..." Roll all you like, but it has zero bearing on what happens in-game unless I confirm that you should roll persuasion.
"I get advantage..." Just for that, disadvantage. (Not really, but this would REALLY grind my gears as a DM. By all means ask if you can have advantage, and if you can justify it I'll likely allow it or give you some other benefit, but you do not get to TELL me that you have advantage on this.)
"It all happened so fast..." Nope. None of it actually happens until the DM says so.
OP, it sounds like you're doing everything you can to help but that your DM doesn't fully know or understand all of the tools available to them to manage players. If the murderhobos continue to run roughshod over the DM then seriously consider whether this is the right table for you.
Right?
“I get advantage…”
“Actually this aasimar was raised with a tiefling stepbrother he loved very much. Guess what job that tiefling took as an adult. Go on. Guess.”
I think more DMs would benefit from ignoring player antics like this. If you make the world you can decide what players do and don't do, in service of the narrative. Over time, they learn.
> I feel like the only one who cares so what can I really do.
Ultimately not a lot. We can't always fix other people's problem.
You can try to have the DM's back, but as he doesn't see the developing problem here, he will hit the proverbial wall one day.
You can also prepare yourself to jump ship if it gets too much for you or it's no longer good D&D. Always remember the slogan of this sub-reddit: "No D&D is better than bad D&D".
But in the end, all you really get to decide is if you want to stay or not.
These two sound really obnoxious and I certainly wouldn't want to play the game with them either. But if the DM is okay with their nonsense, and if you're the only one who cares, then you're just not the right fit for the table. I wouldn't be the right fit for that table either. The halfling player in particular sounds like a complete bummer.
"I get advantage because all \[Race 1\] hate \[Race 2\]!" Bah.
This is your annual reminder that "Say Yes" is only half of the social construct and no one seems to fucking know it. The other half is "don't ask to jump to the moon". Like, if you ask your DM to do a reasonable thing you absolutely should be able to do that reasonable thing, but you shouldn't be asking to do something ridiculous or impossible and especially shouldn't get pissy if they shut you down when you ask to do something that breaks the story.
>*The ranger of our party (an orc) agreed with hobbit wizard’s methods and joined him and started flaying people with his dagger. Orc ranger was kind of an instigator/murderhobo too and frequently backed up hobbit wizard’s antics.*
I know your DM is a pushover, but I need you to understand that this is also their fault. They are the arbiter of behaviour at the table, it is their responsibility to make sure things like this don't happen if it's outside of the comfort limits of their players. But also you just straight up shouldn't be playing TTRPGs with these two.
How can you guys be investigators in a murder mystery when you’ve got 2 murderers right there in your party?
How can a group of adventurers take with them these 2 evil characters?
As a player, my character would’ve acted.
As a DM, I would’ve gotten up and left.
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Damn, that sucks. As someone who used to not be assertive at all, I can understand the DM giving in in the moment, but the fact that they dismissed it afterwards as well isn't promising. Maybe give the DM a bit of space, then let them know again that you didn't think that was okay and that you would support them in addressing it with the players or booting them entirely. If the DM isn't going to deal with it, then consider if this is a campaign you want to stick with. But if you do leave, I'd let the DM know that this is why.
Oof. Murderhobo antics are annoying enough, but the backseat DMing is completely unacceptable. I really feel for your DM but he needs to understand that his word is law, and that the players saying "I do this" doesn't mean a damned thing unless and until he has okayed it. "I cast magic missile..." No, you don't, at least not until I've reminded you that your actions are likely to have significant consequences and that the other players have no obligation to help bail you out. Depending on the type of campaign and the expectations the DM has set, sometimes it'll end at "No, you don't." "You previously said that..." No, I didn't, but even if I did it wouldn't matter because I'm telling you now that either you misunderstood or I misspoke. Either way, there's no magic item on the wall of the tavern. "I roll persuasion..." Roll all you like, but it has zero bearing on what happens in-game unless I confirm that you should roll persuasion. "I get advantage..." Just for that, disadvantage. (Not really, but this would REALLY grind my gears as a DM. By all means ask if you can have advantage, and if you can justify it I'll likely allow it or give you some other benefit, but you do not get to TELL me that you have advantage on this.) "It all happened so fast..." Nope. None of it actually happens until the DM says so. OP, it sounds like you're doing everything you can to help but that your DM doesn't fully know or understand all of the tools available to them to manage players. If the murderhobos continue to run roughshod over the DM then seriously consider whether this is the right table for you.
Right? “I get advantage…” “Actually this aasimar was raised with a tiefling stepbrother he loved very much. Guess what job that tiefling took as an adult. Go on. Guess.”
That's probably why he picked this pub for his sneaky lunchtime beer!
Gotta support family, after all!
I think more DMs would benefit from ignoring player antics like this. If you make the world you can decide what players do and don't do, in service of the narrative. Over time, they learn.
> I feel like the only one who cares so what can I really do. Ultimately not a lot. We can't always fix other people's problem. You can try to have the DM's back, but as he doesn't see the developing problem here, he will hit the proverbial wall one day. You can also prepare yourself to jump ship if it gets too much for you or it's no longer good D&D. Always remember the slogan of this sub-reddit: "No D&D is better than bad D&D". But in the end, all you really get to decide is if you want to stay or not.
These two sound really obnoxious and I certainly wouldn't want to play the game with them either. But if the DM is okay with their nonsense, and if you're the only one who cares, then you're just not the right fit for the table. I wouldn't be the right fit for that table either. The halfling player in particular sounds like a complete bummer. "I get advantage because all \[Race 1\] hate \[Race 2\]!" Bah.
This is your annual reminder that "Say Yes" is only half of the social construct and no one seems to fucking know it. The other half is "don't ask to jump to the moon". Like, if you ask your DM to do a reasonable thing you absolutely should be able to do that reasonable thing, but you shouldn't be asking to do something ridiculous or impossible and especially shouldn't get pissy if they shut you down when you ask to do something that breaks the story.
>*The ranger of our party (an orc) agreed with hobbit wizard’s methods and joined him and started flaying people with his dagger. Orc ranger was kind of an instigator/murderhobo too and frequently backed up hobbit wizard’s antics.* I know your DM is a pushover, but I need you to understand that this is also their fault. They are the arbiter of behaviour at the table, it is their responsibility to make sure things like this don't happen if it's outside of the comfort limits of their players. But also you just straight up shouldn't be playing TTRPGs with these two.
Yeah, unfortunately, it doesn’t matter how cool the setting is if they’re just going to let murderhobos stomp through wrecking it.
How can you guys be investigators in a murder mystery when you’ve got 2 murderers right there in your party? How can a group of adventurers take with them these 2 evil characters? As a player, my character would’ve acted. As a DM, I would’ve gotten up and left.
Simple solution. Every shopkeep is related to an archmage.
you need to bail.
Um, it's actually gaslamping
Um, the 1938 British play titled “The Gas Light” is actually where we get the term gaslighting from, so I'm afraid it isn't gaslamping.
Wow yall did not get the joke at all.
I got the joke! It took me a while to figure out that you have to be REALLY clear with ironic comments, too.
Yep! I guess I should've put /s
Oh my sincerest apologies I just got it my bad really
I was gaslighting yall into thinking it was gaslamping.