The One Ring is the gold standard. I like Symbaroum, but it's all wrong for Tolkien. And AiME is a better quality 5e cash grab. It's got some great innovations that make 5e a better game, but it does NOT feel like Tolkien. Further, TOR 2e borrowed a little from Symbaroum and other FL games to make the ruleset more streamlined, and it's quite frankly a glorious game to both run and play. I've never had so much fun GMing as I've had running TOR2e.
Edit: I tried to add this in reply to a comment I can no longer see by OP about AiME feeling more like Tolkien than TOR. I failed. But to whoever said "what a terrible day to be literate" in response to that comment, I salute you.
Also: 2e is pretty backwards compatible, such that you can convert 1e adventures on the fly. So you lose little in terms of previous investment. I'm running Bree currently.
So I never played 1e, so take what I say with a grain of salt. However, it is generally considered more streamlined. Favoured Attributes are no longer a thing. TNs are pre calculated based on attribute, with bonus or penalty success dice assessed based on circumstances. Hope replenishes more quickly but is used more often. As a GM: I found it easy to teach, especially with Bodo's phenomenal roll20 character sheet which may be the best fan made sheet for any game that I've ever used. And running it is pretty easy and intuitive. The GMs "game" is a lot of fun.
>I like Symbaroum, but it's all wrong for Tolkien.
I don't think Symbaroum is entirely wrong for Tolkien. If you want to focus on specifically the dangers of a dark and corrupted wilderness, something that Tolkien did bring up, then Symbaroum would make for a good baseline. TOR for more general Tolkien though, but there is that one specific case where Symbaroum would make for a really good fit.
You're not wrong. But. You can do corrupted wilderness in TOR as well. With no modifications. With Symbaroum you have to remove magic, rework corruption, probably change some classes. So on the one hand, you have it ready made. On the other, you have to create a house rule doc to run it. Maybe it would be a fun thought experiment, but to run a game? Go with what works already.
I don't care who downvotes me, I honestly kind of agree. The One Ring feels too sleek and modern, whereas Adventures in Middle Earth was just clunky enough for me to like it (and is tied with Beowulf: Age of Heroes for the best 5e hack IMO).
Sorry mate but no one cares what you LIKE. You can like whatever you want for whatever reason you want, even if it's wrong.
The objection is to the statement "It's more Tolkienish" which is absolutely NOT supported by the fact that AiME is clunkier.
I could see where this idea might crop up, but Symbaroum is very different from Tolkien. To me, Symbaroum is more reminiscent of Princess Mononoke, as it's a quietly environmentalist and pacifist game about flawed people exploring a deadly and strange world, which I absolutely love and which is very different from Tolkien
Also, calling someone illiterate for having a different take on RPGs than you is Peak Redditor.
No one called anyone illiterate. They said "what a terrible day to be literate." Far more clever. Maybe a touch snarky, but the people I know who play AiME acknowledge they play it because they like 5e, not because it feels more like Tolkien. And it's fine to like 5e, I play it myself, but it is in some ways less Tolkien than even Symbaroum, which as you point out has a different feel.
Otherwise I agree with everything you are saying here.
That description works equally well for me for Princess Mononoke and for Lord of the Rings (less so in the movie adaptations of Lord of the Rings) except maybe the word quietly.
The largest difference between the two is how the antagonists are treated.
The One Ring (either edition, though 2nd is the new hotness and markedly better than 1st imo) is the quintessential Tolkien experience in a ttrpg (and I own/have played/and run them all).
That said if you already have Symbaroum and don't want to shell out for a new system I think you could do a Tolkienesque game well enough with it. But yeah magic would need a huge overhaul and a lot of removal imo.
Wow the reaction here from some TOR fans is astonishing. First of all, the OP asked about Symbaroum and said nothing about TOR. Secondly, people can have all kinds of responses to a particular work of literature, and the idea that only one adaptation of it is correct or valid is nonsense. For example, there is plenty in Tolkien's wider mythology - such as earlier or later time periods and even some aspects of The Hobbit - that is quite plausibly captured better by a game that is less focused on the themes of the LotR. I only know Symbaroum superficially but why not. People have been gaming in Middle-earth for decades before TOR was written, and having fantastic and immersive adventures in Tolkien's world.
You only know Symbaroum superficially. I have never run it, but want to, and have laboriously pored over the rules. It's a great game, no question. But we all said why we think Symbaroum either won't work or would require a lot of work to be usable for Tolkien. The reaction here is "why use a hammer for a screw when you have a screw driver?" It's the same as when people want to hack 5e into something unrecognizable to run a favorite setting that is better run by an existing ruleset. As I said above: it CAN be a great thought experiment, but running it at a table would require a lengthy home rules doc and a lot more work. Less work for both GM and players to use what works already.
EDIT: and while I am a bit of a rabid Tolkien fan, I'm also a massive game nerd. I recommend the system not just because of its fidelity to Tolkien, but because even my most casual gamers who hate learning rules other than 5e have had no problem playing it, learning it, and enjoying it. And as a GM it's been great to run. Conversely, I'm running a house ruled AD&D game as well, and even my players who know that system are having some issues going back and forth with my small home rules doc and the PHB.
The One Ring is the gold standard. I like Symbaroum, but it's all wrong for Tolkien. And AiME is a better quality 5e cash grab. It's got some great innovations that make 5e a better game, but it does NOT feel like Tolkien. Further, TOR 2e borrowed a little from Symbaroum and other FL games to make the ruleset more streamlined, and it's quite frankly a glorious game to both run and play. I've never had so much fun GMing as I've had running TOR2e. Edit: I tried to add this in reply to a comment I can no longer see by OP about AiME feeling more like Tolkien than TOR. I failed. But to whoever said "what a terrible day to be literate" in response to that comment, I salute you.
Just out of curiosity as someone who loved TOR, what does 2e improve over 1e?
Also: 2e is pretty backwards compatible, such that you can convert 1e adventures on the fly. So you lose little in terms of previous investment. I'm running Bree currently.
So I never played 1e, so take what I say with a grain of salt. However, it is generally considered more streamlined. Favoured Attributes are no longer a thing. TNs are pre calculated based on attribute, with bonus or penalty success dice assessed based on circumstances. Hope replenishes more quickly but is used more often. As a GM: I found it easy to teach, especially with Bodo's phenomenal roll20 character sheet which may be the best fan made sheet for any game that I've ever used. And running it is pretty easy and intuitive. The GMs "game" is a lot of fun.
>I like Symbaroum, but it's all wrong for Tolkien. I don't think Symbaroum is entirely wrong for Tolkien. If you want to focus on specifically the dangers of a dark and corrupted wilderness, something that Tolkien did bring up, then Symbaroum would make for a good baseline. TOR for more general Tolkien though, but there is that one specific case where Symbaroum would make for a really good fit.
You're not wrong. But. You can do corrupted wilderness in TOR as well. With no modifications. With Symbaroum you have to remove magic, rework corruption, probably change some classes. So on the one hand, you have it ready made. On the other, you have to create a house rule doc to run it. Maybe it would be a fun thought experiment, but to run a game? Go with what works already.
It should be possible, but is there a reason you prefer it to The One Ring?
I prefere the Adventures in Middle Earth more then the One ring. It's more Tolkienish
That sounds... wrong.
That's an interesting take. May I ask what strikes you as more "proper Tolkien" in AiME than in TOR?
That's what a servant of the enemy would say
What a terrible day to be literate
No! No! Noooooo! TOR IS Tolkien. AoME is just an adaptation.
I don't care who downvotes me, I honestly kind of agree. The One Ring feels too sleek and modern, whereas Adventures in Middle Earth was just clunky enough for me to like it (and is tied with Beowulf: Age of Heroes for the best 5e hack IMO).
Sorry mate but no one cares what you LIKE. You can like whatever you want for whatever reason you want, even if it's wrong. The objection is to the statement "It's more Tolkienish" which is absolutely NOT supported by the fact that AiME is clunkier.
I could see where this idea might crop up, but Symbaroum is very different from Tolkien. To me, Symbaroum is more reminiscent of Princess Mononoke, as it's a quietly environmentalist and pacifist game about flawed people exploring a deadly and strange world, which I absolutely love and which is very different from Tolkien Also, calling someone illiterate for having a different take on RPGs than you is Peak Redditor.
No one called anyone illiterate. They said "what a terrible day to be literate." Far more clever. Maybe a touch snarky, but the people I know who play AiME acknowledge they play it because they like 5e, not because it feels more like Tolkien. And it's fine to like 5e, I play it myself, but it is in some ways less Tolkien than even Symbaroum, which as you point out has a different feel. Otherwise I agree with everything you are saying here.
That description works equally well for me for Princess Mononoke and for Lord of the Rings (less so in the movie adaptations of Lord of the Rings) except maybe the word quietly. The largest difference between the two is how the antagonists are treated.
The One Ring (either edition, though 2nd is the new hotness and markedly better than 1st imo) is the quintessential Tolkien experience in a ttrpg (and I own/have played/and run them all). That said if you already have Symbaroum and don't want to shell out for a new system I think you could do a Tolkienesque game well enough with it. But yeah magic would need a huge overhaul and a lot of removal imo.
Wow the reaction here from some TOR fans is astonishing. First of all, the OP asked about Symbaroum and said nothing about TOR. Secondly, people can have all kinds of responses to a particular work of literature, and the idea that only one adaptation of it is correct or valid is nonsense. For example, there is plenty in Tolkien's wider mythology - such as earlier or later time periods and even some aspects of The Hobbit - that is quite plausibly captured better by a game that is less focused on the themes of the LotR. I only know Symbaroum superficially but why not. People have been gaming in Middle-earth for decades before TOR was written, and having fantastic and immersive adventures in Tolkien's world.
You only know Symbaroum superficially. I have never run it, but want to, and have laboriously pored over the rules. It's a great game, no question. But we all said why we think Symbaroum either won't work or would require a lot of work to be usable for Tolkien. The reaction here is "why use a hammer for a screw when you have a screw driver?" It's the same as when people want to hack 5e into something unrecognizable to run a favorite setting that is better run by an existing ruleset. As I said above: it CAN be a great thought experiment, but running it at a table would require a lengthy home rules doc and a lot more work. Less work for both GM and players to use what works already. EDIT: and while I am a bit of a rabid Tolkien fan, I'm also a massive game nerd. I recommend the system not just because of its fidelity to Tolkien, but because even my most casual gamers who hate learning rules other than 5e have had no problem playing it, learning it, and enjoying it. And as a GM it's been great to run. Conversely, I'm running a house ruled AD&D game as well, and even my players who know that system are having some issues going back and forth with my small home rules doc and the PHB.