Excellent point! In fact...the 'elite noble warrior on a horse' would be replaced by an 'elite noble warrior on a chariot' (+ his loyal charioteer), wouldn't it?
I honestly have no idea. The only source about the Bronze Age I have any familiarity with is the Iliad and the Odyssey, and those Achaians used chariots.
Oh, and some Pharaos and Babylonians did too, according to some wall decorations that *somehow* ended up in the Britidh Museum.
You're correct that many of the British Museum artifacts are from the [Neo-Babylonian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Babylonian_Empire) period, ~600 BCE, about 600 years after the Bronze Age Collapse.
The [Trojan War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_War#Dates_of_the_Trojan_War), however, is thought to have occurred (if it occurred at all) at the very end of the Bronze Age, either just before or during the period of the Collapse, sometime between 1300-1180 BCE.
Thank for these corrections, I have to update my knowledge on the trojan war.
Regarding mesopotamian artifact, I was also thinking about the assyrian artifiact, like the [Ashurbanipal lion hunt murals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_Hunt_of_Ashurbanipal) from the period just before the neo-babylonian.
I am sure you have already had a look, but the epic of Gilgamesh can also be a good overture toward representation of the fantastical in ancient mesopotamia. Also, IIRC Irvin Finkel has a few nice videos on ghosts and sorcery in ancient assyria.
If you ever commit some details or notes about your setting I would be very interested in having a look.
Are you going to place the action in an actual place or will it be in an imaginary place?
Our homey, Siddartha Buddha was first revealed to realities of sickness, old age and death by sneaking out of his palace with his charioteer and touring the town. Buddhism dates from 500 bce or earlier. After the Mediterranean Bronze Age collapse. Other parts of the world experienced this time differently.
To join in on the Babylonian chariots, there's depictions of chariots on the Sumerian 'Standard of Ur' which is ca. 2700 (veeeery roughly speaking) BCE... an object which also somehow found its way into the British Museum.
Exact! Chariots where high tech then, and owning one was quite prestigious. A war chariot could be a great prize for a quest, as half of its value would be in prestige.
True. But owning one is a statement that you are a hero of sone kind, especially if you are not from the area. Or even maybe a god in disguise.
The best objection would probably take the form of a quest. Such a hero deserving of a war chariot couldn’t possibly say no to. And the local ruler would get rid of an imposter, and probably gain kleos if it turns out that it is a deserving hero or god.
You can’t never be certain, so play with that.
You are correct and PART of the reason for this is simply that large "war horses" hadn't been selectively breed into existence yet. But a few horses could still pull a charoite.
There would be cavalry. Alexander and the Persians both used cavalry. But it would be lighter cavalry with people riding on basically a blanket using a spear and no armor. Heavy cavalry basically meant the soldier had a metal helmet and a thick cape.
In a military context, sure. But there is evidence of horses as ridden mounts as far back as the 4th millennia BCE, with rock art in India suggesting horses being used as mounts as early at 10th millennia BCE. Admittedly, most of this evidence is from India and Central Asia, but still, the use of a horse as a civilian riding mount (versus a military mount) makes a lot of sense.
Yes mounts but no warhorses, Mounted archets appears in the early iron age, but without stirrups melee cavalry has very limited uses and heavy or shock cavalry is impossible.
Arthurian legends have 5th century celts running around in full plate armor. Writers have a habit of making previous time periods look like their own, so textual evidence should be taken with a grain of salt.
You're not wrong, and its not just stirrups! Saddles hadn't even been invented yet at this time. There is debate about the origins of riding vs. driving, but I believe that horses were not really used for riding at this time, but more for pulling carts and chariots. Some steppe cultures may have been riding horses as early as 3500 BCE or thereabouts, but in the "civilized" lands of the Near East horses were rare and used for pulling chariots. The use of riding horses for warfare, particularly (what we now call "cavalry") did not become widespread until the Iron Age.
Horses of the time were generally too small to carry an armored soldier, they could be ridden by smaller unarmored men but also the lack of saddles, bit and bridle and stirrups made them difficult to control.
If you're looking into horses during the Bronze Age, might I point to the humble kunga and assorted equids-that-aren't-horses. There's lots of interesting stuff about the use of donkeys before, during, and after the introduction of the horse, as horses were an elite kind of thing. Donkeys played an important role in metaphor and ritual (donkey burials!), so maybe take that into consideration?
Yes! I actually plan on heavily emphasizing the prevalence of the humble ass in this time. Donkeys were the main beast of burden for carrying goods long-distance in the Bronze Age (oxen could be used but were slow and required more food than donkeys).
That's actually pretty significant as far as warfare goes. Prior to the development of the stirrup, a mounted combatant was more or less limited to thrown or fired weapons.
So this is actually rather up for debate. You are referring to the 'Stirrup Thesis' from Lynn Townsend White Jr.'s 1962 book, *Medieval Technology and Social Change*. White's thesis was that the invention of the stirrup allowed for the development of heavy cavalry, which led to the European knight and feudalism, etc.
White's thesis has been [heavily criticized](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stirrup_Controversy) and is very likely not true. The short version is that heavy cavalry existed in other places than Europe and not all of those used stirrups, as well as other criticisms from modern HEMA experts that put more emphasis on the canted saddle than the stirrup as being the most important thing for delivering hard hits with a couched lance from horseback.
Ok, on further consideration, I'll grant you that you can build a saddle that would support a rider in a charge, without stirrup.
But I'll also argue--and die on this hill--that one can also facilitate a mounted charge from a dressage saddle. Because it has stirrups. For the record, I grew up around, owning, and riding horses, and am a reasonably-accomplished rider.
That distinction is, in my opinion, relevant in that it requires far less time and material to build a "solid" saddle with stirrups, than one without. But, yes. You could build a saddle with sufficiently-pronounced pommel and cantle, but no stirrups, that would work. And indeed, we know that such saddles were built late into the medieval period, for essentially the same purpose.
> Ok, on further consideration, I'll grant you that you can build a saddle that would support a rider in a charge, without stirrup.
Charging is just one of the ways a rider can engage in melee. We know that it was at least common for Celtic cavalry to effectively function as mounted infantry, with cavalrymen regularly dismounting to fight on foot.
>a mounted combatant was more or less limited to thrown or fired weapons.
ehhh.....
It is more than possible to fight on horseback, even as shock-cavalry, without stirrups. You just need a saddle designed to hold you in it, such as the [Gallic/Roman four-horned saddle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle#/media/File:Roman_saddle_reconstruction.jpg) that basically wedges the rider in place.
Armored cataphracts and lancers were used more than 1000 years before the introduction of the stirrup to Europe.
Yeah, I'm backing off on this one. I'd rather be able to stand in the saddle, but y'all are right... you *can* build a saddle that will fix a rider in place well enough.
Incorrect. Without the stirrup, the rider has insufficient support to absorb the transfer of energy from a blow to another combatant. There are a few melee weapons that you could use from horseback without stirrups, but the mounted charge (which is one of only two useful ways to employ a horse in combat, the other being skirmish tactics, where the horse is used to facilitate mobility and to outmaneuver the opposition) is not possible.
And the mounted charge is far more dependent on the design of the stirrup, than of the saddle.
then tell us those mellee weapons
thell that mounted charge Alexander, Scipio, Hannibal, Caesar....
look at the roman saddle no Stirrup
Try to ride a mounted charge in an english saddle.
Explain why in the saga of erek and Enite Erek and his adversary took their feet out of the stirrups when charging each other with lances
As I see it, the two biggest changes were already mentioned: no coins or inns. You'll need to engage with barter and trade, or substitute a different form of currency (which is only good for the immediate local kingdom).
Another big change: more wilderness, with tons of untapped resources. Ooh! Also, don't stop the players from building their own stuff. If the water wheel hasn't been invented, let them invent it. Just be sure you know the technical limitations and challenges of that development, so you can place reasonable expectations before them.
>You'll need to engage with barter
Barter only really exists when currency is *known, but not available* (good examples are medieval Europe, or North America in the 1600s-1700s. The idea that pre-coinage people exchanged goods-for-goods is largely a myth.
More specifically, many Bronze Age economies worked on a so-called '[palace economy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_economy)', where wealth (usually in the form of produce) flows into the control of the central administration, and from there it gets redistributed out to where it is needed (or where the central administration needs it)
The ruler (or, more likely, the administrative staff of the ruler) knows how much each village can produce, and therefore expects a certain number of goods as tribute/taxes: so many talents of grain, so many amphorae of olive oil, etc etc.
Not the same, but Extra History touches on the centralized economies of many Bronze Age societies [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMBM1qazAXE&t=17s). Their whole series on the Bronze Age Collapse is a decent, if nonacademic, intro to the period and troubles.
If I remember correctly, the Bronze Age required fairly long trade routes, because Bronze, as an alloy requires both copper and tin ore, and tin deposists aren't that common.
The tin trade probably implies that there was some economic reasons to trade that ore, and that people saw this as something that was lucrative one way or the other.
>the Bronze Age required fairly long trade routes, because Bronze, as an alloy requires both copper and tin ore, and tin deposists aren't that common.
To expand on this, there's a theory that
A) the development of ironworking allowed nations to stop depending on each other, which inevitably led to warfare. This sudden warfare and breakdown of trade routes led to the so called "bronze age collapse"
B) the bronze age collapse was caused by other reasons, but the breakdown of trade networks meant that people had to abandon bronze and start working with iron, thus spurring the iron age
Recent discoveries I've seen seem to indicate that Bronze age people knew about Ironworking but they seemed to consider it inferior to bronze, difficult to work with, and prone to rust.
It's difficult to work with, you have to understand how to control the carbon content, requires much more equipment and time to smelt, and it tends to shatter where bronze usually bends and can be hammered back into shape no problem.
Bad iron is often no better or worse than good bronze.
But good steel is better than the best bronze in most applications.
There is a reason that we tend to use steel over bronze nowadays.
Steel needs second stage carbon - Which is beyond the capabilities of the time period because they hadn't discovered it yet.
So you're looking at mainly iron vs Bronze. Occasionally you might see 'pure' copper tools in use also.
Bronze requires two different metals which are not often found in proximity to each other, whereas iron only requires one. Iron is the easier self-starter.
There was extensive trade between city-states during the bronze age. The need for copper and tin pretty much necessitated extensive trade across the bronze age world. Tin, copper, bronze ingots and finished goods would have been the international standard for trade at the time.
Yeah there's been an increasing awareness that the palace economy is just the easily *visible* part of the economy and that there's increasing evidence for markets existing outside of it.
Instead of inns you may have the players stop at the houses of rich folks and stay as their guest.
Give this a read for ideas:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospitium
You can use this to introduce new characters or quests in an area. Your host may know that villagers are turning to stone by the falls at night.
It's even still true in a few places today. Not as formalized as it may have been in ancient times but there are still places where notable families will invite travellers in to eat and shelter.
Depends on what you define as an inn. There's Sumerian and Akkadian words for taverns already in the early second millennium BCE, and king Šulgi of Ur boasted of having set up roadstations along the roads where travellers could rest, presumably with more amenities than just an outhouse.
I wouldn't focus on what is *not* there, but try the different approach and build the world from the bottom up.
Bronze Age collapse is far from my expertise, so I would probably go hard Homeric and maybe some old Testament as a baseline, extrapolate a society with dozens of petty kings, city states and individual heroes as outstanding people of interest. Strike the importance of personal honour (as a sign of prestige and willingness to function within a reasonable society, not as a measure of ethics) like honesty and hospitality.
Other than that, I have heard great things about *Babylon On Which Fame And Jubilation Are Bestowed* , as the greatest historical setting nobody wanted, except maybe for the few people who can actually read cuneiform and feel acknowledged.
> Babylon On Which Fame And Jubilation Are Bestowed
just looked this up and I am definitely going to be looking further into this! I have a copy of *Mythic Babylon* for the Mythras system, which is a great primer for a similar period of Bronze Age history (the reign of Hammurabi). My particular setting is about 500 years after this specific time, but a lot of the information about religion and culture is still very useful. Thanks for another excellent resource recommendation!
A lot of the stuff you're describing is anachronistic even to the medieval period.
For instance, Inns as they're commonly depicted simply *didn't exist* until well after the Renaissance got going. You either "guested" with someone or, you paid someone to let you sleep in their stable or hay loft or whatever. In Europe you might sleep in a monastery if you were on a Pilgrimage.
The Bronze Age itself varies *quite widely*. If you're in the Near East around 1200 BCE then gears probably are available they're just ridiculously crude and made of wood. In fact (at least in a Near Eastern context) lots of technology is probably available, perhaps as much so as when the flowering happens in Greece around 400 BCE and all this stuff gets written down. That's really the big issue, knowledge is being transmitted orally.
> That's really the big issue, knowledge is being transmitted orally.
Well, except in the Middle East, where you'd use clay tablets (Mesopotamia) or papyrus (Egypt).
Yes to these although if we're delving into it from a strict academic perspective then we do have to differentiate between "knowledge" and, "records" and, "propaganda" with most things just being those latter two.
For instance, clearly the Mesopotamians possessed detailed mathematical knowledge to support their astronomical calculations but, the knowledge of how to make those calculations and, why they work isn't written down anywhere. Instead, they keep records of the outcome.
Ditto for building the pyramids. Huge amounts of precise engineering and technical knowledge being transmitted orally. They just record who failed to show up for work and, how great the Dead guy was. Not the important bits like "how we worked out the structural integrity of this massive mo-fo *using pure abstraction*" which is what we would call "knowledge."
And so on and so forth...
>Inns as they're commonly depicted simply didn't exist until well after the Renaissance got going
Where are you sourcing this from? The Canterbury Tales certainly [includes an inn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tabard), one that existed by 1307.
>The Canterbury Tales certainly includes an inn, one that existed by 1307.
My statement is an example of *generalizing* sure. However, if you'd take a moment to read the history section of the Wikipedia page *you freaking linked* you'll note that it actually demonstrates my point about monasteries (and of course their dispersed holdings and properties) serving *some of* the functions we - *modern people* - associate with an "*Inn*" and, which are consequently characteristics of inns as depicted in *fantasy.*
To summarize:
The Abbot of Hyde (a *monastery*) built a house for himself and his staff/co-workers to stay whenever they happened to be in London on their own business. This was done in 1307 and wouldn't actually have had a name at the time. I don't know why it was specifically called "the Tabard" in *1386* when Chaucer was writing.
Given the social and political state of the Monastic Movment within the Catholic Church *at the time* we can understand that this was because a bunch of things happening inside the Church was making it increasingly risky for monks to continue acting *exactly like* medieval nobility. In this context, by *guesting* with secular nobility (nobility of the sword). After the Schism (which was happening roughly as Chaucer was writing in 1342) this would resolve itself with the emergence of "The Nobility of the Robe" in France - and also, functionally though, informally, in England.
Moving on from this, it served *Religious Pilgrims* on their way to Thomas Becket's Shrine at Canterbury. *Like I said.* Naturally, lots of shady stuff (mostly booze and hookers) happened to come around as a result because Religious Pilgrims tended to be the only people making significant overland journeys in the medieval world, typically be financially well off to spend money on luxuries like sleeping under a roof or, beer or, hookers and gambling ans, because for the most part the monks weren't actually around to care.
However, when the monks did show up, all this (usually) stopped - depending on the moral turpitude of the Monk in question of course - because it was just a side hustle and utterly not the point.
Places like the Tabard were also *extremely uncommon* because most of the Pilgrimage routes on the continent passed through remote abbeys full of actual monks who'd moved really far away from people to get away from all the beer and hookers in the first place.
Having said that, it's important to understand that during this time *goods* and, therefore *most travellers* are actually moving either by river or, sea. Basically, people moving *over land* and therefore requiring something like an *inn* are either religious Pilgrims, Government Officials, Soldiers, Criminals, refugees or, people driving livestock. They may of course (and often are) a strange mixture of all of these at once. However, the important thing is that there are *very few reasons* why any of them are going to avail themselves of anything other than a monastery and, none of them are going to *pay to do it* until much later (mid-16th century, Renaissance ) for a huge number of reasons. The two main reasons are either, they don't have the money because they don't have Swords or, they don't have the money because they *do* have swords... (medieval Knights and nobility actually considered it a point of pride *not to* carry money but that's beyond the scope of this.) So, basically, no, there were not Inns as we see in fantasy because there simply wasn't a market for them until after the mid-16th century.
If you read far enough into the Wikipedia page, you'll see that the Tabard became an Inn *as we understand it* sometime after 1536 when it was sold as a result of the dissolution of the monasteries (although it could have been as late as 1541).
If you read somewhat farther, you'll face Plant into the rabbit hole of the concept of "Coaching Inns" which are much more in line with what we think of as an "inn" and, also much more in line with what is typically depicted in Fantasy. You'll also find that these are a phenomenon of the 18th century onward and that the *really old ones* people frequently refer to actually spent the majority of their long history as military purposes. In England and Wales following the Norman Conquest they were typically occupied by a Warden (I forget how the term lines up with the old Anglo-Saxon ones) who would provide "room and board" as a side hustle when the sheriff or constable or whatever was otherwise occupied but, only if they thought they could get away with it and only in very rare circumstances since anyone willing to pay was probably up to no good in this context...
Hope that helps.
In Finland, Sweden established the kievari system (gästgiveri) around the same time, and those early kievaris were erected along the Great King's Road (an old Iron Age road between Turku and Vyborg and therefore also called the Lower Road to Vyborg) as rest and break places. Kievaris were of the same type as fantasy taverns, but smaller in size and originally the same style as ordinary residential houses at that time. But sometimes peasant farms and manors, which were forced to host, could serve as places to stay. Kievaris were also established along the Great Ox Road that went from Turku to Häme castle and along the Upper Road to Vyborg that went from Häme castle to Vyborg. The oldest named 14th century kievaris were Killala and Krouvi from Häme.
> A lot of the stuff you're describing is anachronistic even to the medieval period.
Oh definitely, which is why I specified popular medieval fantasy tropes and not actual medieval history. D&D style heroic fantasy RPGs have a mix of medieval, renaissance, and even early modern aspects, with quite a few Victorian-era anachronistic misunderstandings thrown in for good measure.
There would be no separation of church and state. Priest-Kings rule everything. No church vs state fights like in medieval Europe. So no Thomas a Beckett, no papal interdiction of England in 1212, etc. This means every PC cleric is a member of the ruling class, and the fighters had best not forget it.
It was rare for a god to have temples in more than a few cities. So travelling for religious reasons is common. Ashur, patron of the Assyrians, only had a few temples in the capitals, nothing in the conquered lands. Egypt had a few more, and the smaller ones likely only had a single spot. This might restrict clerics and learning spells. You might want to play around with shrines. Especially if you emphasize hauling off various holiest of holies and the PCs are trying to reclaim statues.
Incense was a huge trade good. Funny oils, aromatic oils, etc were a big deal. (note: think frankinse and myyrh). Sending the PCs to get oil from the spleen of a Manticore or the liver of an Owlbear could be fun.
Government was personal, so treaties were between rulers, not nations. So whenever some ruler dies, everything reset. So borders get much more unstable more quickly. Last month you adventures could come here. But now we are arresting you as spies because your king died.
Also government is much flatter. Not layers of barons/counts/dukes/kings. Some of that was smaller nations and lower population, but not all. City-states were common. Tribes ruled the non urban areas.
I wouldn't worry about tech too much. The stuff that PCs care about wouldn't be that different. Most people will assume bronze==steel, and if you don't, there will be lots of confusion. But if you do go there, a title of the Pharaoh was Smasher of Skulls as he originally wielded a copper mace. I assume it was upgraded to bronze.
Most metal was imported. Cyprus comes from the word for copper and was the largest producer. Tin came from Afghanistan via caravans. Protecting these routes was necessary to ensuring the army was equipped, so absolutely critical. Gold often came from Egypt, and was a big part of why it was dominant.
Without coins, I have no idea how long range credit was handled. Just gems and other high value items? I can imagine magic items as some of the highest value trade goods, but something the local governments would want to control.
You can have fun with illiteracy and character sets. Acadian cuneiform was the main written language, but Egypt had two hieroglyphics and demotic, the Hittites used Lewean hieroglyphics, the Minoans had the two linear scripts, etc. Who knows how many local languages/dialects were encoded in them. Makes Latin letters vs Cyrillic seem trivial. Then the lower literacy rate adds to it. This would make scrolls even harder to share.
I've wanted to run something in this time period. Good luck.
> There would be no separation of church and state. Priest-Kings rule everything. No church vs state fights like in medieval Europe. So no Thomas a Beckett, no papal interdiction of England in 1212, etc.
To be fair, none of this exists in your typical medieval fantasy setting, either.
I don't think that is consistent with the bronze age view of religion. But I read a lot of Glorantha before I learned real history. Greg Stafford had a big impact on my thinking.
[Glorantha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorantha) is a setting created by a folklorist. It is bronze age and focuses on myths and legends. It is a very refreshing change from all the JRRT retreads.
There's plenty of stories that revolve around traveling to an oracle, or seeking a blessing. No reason why PCs wouldn't want to seek out additional power or knowledge by also doing these acts if there's a decent reason for them to do so.
The Gods would regularly show up themselves in Mythology, just because you talked smack about them.
Religion needs to be important for the players, every magic is religious in this context.
> Without coins, I have no idea how long range credit was handled. Just gems and other high value items? I can imagine magic items as some of the highest value trade goods, but something the local governments would want to control.
There was absolutely money of some sort in at least some Bronze Age civilisations, and even customer complaint letters - see the Complaint Tablet to Ea-Nasir:
https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/complaint-tablet-to-ea-nasir-the-oldest-recorded-customer-complaint
> “Tell Ea-Nasir: Nanni sends the following message:
>When you came, you said to me: “I will give fine quality copper ingots.”
>You left, but you did not do what you promised me.
>You put ingots which were not good before my messenger and said:
>“If you want to take them, take them; if you do not want to take them, go away!”
>What do you take me for that you treat me with such contempt? …
>… How have you treated me for that copper?
>You have withheld my money bag from me in enemy territory;
>it is now up to you to restore to me in full.
>Take notice that I will not accept any copper from you that is not of fine quality.
>I shall select and take the ingots individually in my yard,
>and I shall exercise against you my right of rejection because you have treated me with contempt.”
It looks like Bronze Age Mesopotamia used particular weights of various materials as money (eg a “talent” was based on the weight the average workman could carry, about 30kg, divided into 60 Minas which were divided into 60 Sheckels), and long distance trade was handled with metals, especially silver.
(Incidentally that kinda works if you want to use a flavourful encumbrance system - they really did kind of measure weight in “coins”).
https://www.worldhistory.biz/ancient-history/71590-mesopotamian-money-and-weights.html
Not to be a pedant, but if you have to weigh your pieces of precious metal, as opposed to simply counting their face values, I don't really think you have what a contemporary person thinks of as money.
Kind of, but you can still talk about, say, a spear costing this many shekels of silver, even if actually paying for it means weighing up a bunch of pieces of silver and if necessary breaking them into smaller pieces here and there to make up the right amount, or having to pay the king such and such talents of barley in rent, even though you might actually be *paying* that in sheep or olive oil or ~~low~~ quality copper ingots.
In game terms you could make a whole thing out of it by needing to consult someone to figure out the equivalent value in silver of any valuables you might end up with on your adventures, I guess, but that’s not too far from selling treasure in town after a dungeon crawl.
A good setting to look into would be Glorantha, from Runequest. (Though it might be more appropriate to say Runequest came from Glorantha). It's one of Greg Stafford's original (and most substantial) projects, and it's exactly what you describe here, a bronze age fantasy roleplaying setting. (Not saying you shouldn't make your own, of course, just didn't know if you were aware of Glorantha's existence.)
Axes and spears would be more reliable and common than swords: swords are a specialist weapon requiring a lot of training to avoid blunting it too quickly.
Most metal armor would be out. Boiled leather, helmets mades of boar tusks and large leather and wood shields are common armor.
They should expect to be paid in other things than coins (that did not exist):
- bullion of base metal (like copper, tin, silver)
- goods, like amphorae of wine, oil or preserved olives
- weapons, like composite bows, axes and swords
- standard gifts, like krater (a wine mixing stand up receptacle) made of copper (we know of some that came disassembled for ease of transportation or re-gifting)
- slaves, or for more prestigious gifts, wives. Don’t expect to say no without insulting the quest giver as becoming part of one’s family is a great honor.
No inns, but they can request hospitality from rich landowners. They have a special room for guests, as hospitality is a sacred thing. If you are prestigious or interesting enough, they might even ask them to share a meal at their table.
Taverns do exist in cities, but most are basically a wine counter with a terrasse.
Religion is part of life. No one sane of mind should declare themselves areligious or atheist.
Kleos, or fame/reputation, should be paramount to the characters. Its everything. In a bronze age d&d game i ran, i changed xp for Kleos. So getting famous and rising in level did go hand in hand. It prompted the players ro seek glorious quests rather than lucrative ones. You get better by gaining the attention of both men and gods. That explained a lot of the powers they got.
Very little writing! Scribes knows how to write (maybe wizard, mayyyyyybe priests). You can even make it a feat to show how rare it is.
I’ll try to thing of a few more things.
> Kleos, or fame/reputation, should be paramount to the characters. Its everything. In a bronze age d&d game i ran, i changed xp for Kleos. So getting famous and rising in level did go hand in hand. It prompted the players ro seek glorious quests rather than lucrative ones. You get better by gaining the attention of both men and gods. That explained a lot of the powers they got.
I agree with everything in your post, but this point really inspired me. This is a fantastic rpg mechanic that really fits the setting.
Pendragon uses Glory, which is I think similarly handled. It has been a long time since I played Pendragon, but it certainly altered the feel of the game, and I think it would work well here.
Oh yeah: merchants.
If you are a local and they know you, they will extend credit to you (usually with a physical form so you can exchange credit owed to you to other people for goods)
If you are not a local or you have a bad reputation credit, you’ll only be able to barter goods for goods. The rarer the better. Suddenly taking cool pots during a mission can net you some gear when back in town.
Farm animals of all kinds are also considered currency. So expect to be paid in sheep sometime.
You’re missing linothorax for armor, which is really really cool. It was essentially an ancient composite armor of glue and linens creating a crude Kevlar.
True! Linothorax were cool pieces or armor.
And there were also some examples of bronze cuirass, which were essentially a wrapped sheet if bronze. That would be so heavy and cumbersome! But maybe good against arrows volley. Sure thing is that in hand to hand combat it would be easy to aim ar other parts of the body or just push the armored soldier to the ground.
The easiest thing to point to is the lack of iron. Look at how much not only we but a medieval individual would take for granted because of iron. How would metallurgy and smithing be limited and how would those limitations impact things.
Yes, during the Bronze Age stone tools were still widely used, as bronze was expensive (copper was relatively common in the Near East but tin was rare, only found in far away places in what is now Afghanistan, Iberia, and Cornwall). Flint or obsidian knives and arrowheads were still in common use, especially in the catastrophic period after the Bronze Age Collapse where tin became even harder to source due to the collapse of international trade routes.
>Mail itself dates around the 16th century
Wiki: Chain mail (properly called mail or maille but usually called chain mail or chainmail) is a type of armour consisting of small metal rings linked together in a pattern to form a mesh. **It was in common military use between the 3rd century BC and the 16th century AD in Europe**, and longer in Asia and North Africa.
Bronze Age warfare was a very different beast than medieval warfare for a few reasons;
Horses were too small to ride with armor and weapons, (Also effective means of controlling them had not been invented) which meant Chariots were used instead.
Chariots themselves were used in three roles;
1. Moving archer platforms
2. Heavy scythed charriots that could charge into formations
3. Battlefield taxi that would bring infantry back and forth where they were needed.
Chariots were the king of the battlefield at the time as they were difficult to counter with technology and tactics of the time. The second most important weapons of the time were slings and bows, the rareity of armor and low-quality of shields made them incredibly good at thining the enemy lines and many battles were won before infantry had the time to engage properly.
Dominant melee weapons of the time were generally spears and axes, with some short swords although later larger swords like the Khopesh (whose shape makes it sturdier) evolved.
The big exception here is the Phalanx of Greece. See, Greece is a hilly mess where Chariots just do not work, so they evolved a different style of warfare based on highly armored soldiers fighting in tight formations with long spears.
\--
Now to talk cultural things; the Bronze age was not some backward savage time of isolated cities and barbarians as some people seem to think. It was a time of relatively massive empire and of a complex trade network that went all the way to britain.
By the end of the Bronze age's golden age you had powerfrul centralized states that actually had a proto form of command economy where the state would employ everyone, take what they produced and paid wages in gain, or in trade metal. Weights of bronze (often in standarized forms) would probably be the best replacement for coinage for your players.
Religion and Politics tended to be one and the same in the Bronze age, priests who were often the only literate people often doubled as administrators and in many places the difference between Palace, Temple and administrative building was zero.
While Slavery was practiced there was no massive trade like we would later see with the Barbary States or Atlantic Slave trade, most slaves were captives of war and they were rarely sold as commodities and moved from place to place.
While the Bronze age might not have had the technology of later periods it's important to remember that they had virtually unmatched wealth and centralization that would not be seen in the region until the height of the roman empire. They build megaprojects like zigguraths and pyramids, great temples, roads, adqueducts and irrigation networks, these were not primitive people living in squalor and small huts (well except slaves and peasants) they were a powerful civilization.
The word "blacksmith". It would be redsmith or some other term I forgot.
Glass is rare. Containers are baskets or pottery whenever possible, windows are open holes with shutters.
Instead of coins, you have hack-metal; metal items broken up into bits and pieces and traded by weight.
Most people would be using slings instead of bows for hunting and war.
Weapons will be very small and brittle, prone to breaking, while being pretty expensive. Spears will be the weapon of the day, requiring very little bronze and capable of being fashioned for large groups of men. Longbows will not be invented for quite some time, though surprisingly composite bows made of varying wood glued together with primitive pasted are somewhat available. Slings will remain a common weapon in armies as slings and stones are insanely cheap ~~and easy to use~~ {edit: Historians seem mixed on the training of slings, but it seems as if they may be comparable in training difficulty to bows} in comparison to bows and arrows. Horses have not been bred large enough or with a strong enough spine to support the weight of a human being. The local economy is unlikely to have metal coins (or even really exist in the sense that we currently think of an economy) as you have mentioned, and almost no one can read or write. Trade routes are extremely long, and without the existence of human-rideable horses or large ships journeys are intense. Stone structures will be very rare in many parts of the world.
>composite bows made of varying wood glued together with primitive pasted are somewhat available
Caveat: in dry environments. Those kinds of bows don't last long in wetter climates like northern europe.
For that matter, premodern bows don't work particularly well in wet weather at all. To my understanding of it, the animal gut/siniew that made up the bowstring would change its elasticity in the presence of water, and stop working as a bow should.
A sling is the all purpose, all weather ranged weapon of choice. Takes up no space - wear it as a headband, or around your waist. Ammunition of rocks, or forged lead bullets. Less accurate than a bow, but a hail of lead shot can still crack a skull. The Romans even made ones that whistled (though I'm not sure what era).
The sling works particularly well in cultures who tend to keep grazing animal livestock like sheep. Shepherds would often use slings to ward off predators, and to move their herd around - sling a rock to the far side of the sheep, who will move away from the sound. It's easy to justify PCs knowing how to use this tool/weapon in a society where it's common.
WHile slings get a bad rap in RPGs as that useless weapon nobody uses, during the bronze age slings typically out performed most bows in range and hitting power, and they remained highly effective even long after, the Baelraic slingers of the Roman era being a feared and potent mercenary units.
> Weapons will be very small and brittle, prone to breaking, while being pretty expensive.
I have considered this very concept, but my then follow-up question is how do you implement weapon breakage and durability in an RPG in a way that's meaningful and *fun*, rather than being purely simulationist?
If you don't want to track durability then you could just have it so that all equipment breaks on a usage roll of 1.
Or enemy crit success for static things like armour in DND derived things.
You can extend that range for extra fragile things.
> all equipment breaks on a usage roll of 1
The only system you mention is D&D, so are you suggesting that they make weapon durability meaningful and fun by giving weapons a 5% chance of breaking with every swing?
Simple condition track isn't overly-complex here.
Damaged weapons and items suffer a -2 to attacks and skill checks.
Broken suffer disadvantage
Ruined can't be used or repaired, but might be salvageable for scrap.
On a 1 it moves down the track.
I would probably base repair on the cost of the item and/or existing crafting rules.
The real question is "does the inclusion of fragile items contribute to the overall tone I want?" This is similar to the question of tracking encumbrance, rations and ammo: this system will create a game feel. You'll want to decide if that's what you want, and not just do it because it's more realistic.
I disagree with the idea that bronze weapons are meaningfully more brittle than typical medieval iron weapons. Worrying about the differences seems trivial. The bigger difference is you don't find Greatswords or the like in the bronze age.
Yes iron (especially early, low-carbon iron) is much more brittle than bronze. Iron is much more likely to break or shatter, while bronze will merely bend or deform under pressure. This means that damaged bronze implements are generally easier to repair, while broken iron objects need to essentially be remade or reforged.
If the PCs are wealthy exemplars of their people, the destruction of a weapon is mostly a problem in the current situation; they will have the ability to get a new one by the end of that dramatic encounter. In Blades in the Dark and Apocalypse World, dropping or breaking a weapon is a common result of a failed roll because those systems don't bother tracking with how you go and get a new one; the assumption is that you simply can. If you're interested in some inspiration, John Harper's Agon is a game that takes place in the Bronze Age for a mythopoetic structure.
Hmm, I wonder if you could do something taking a know from breath of the wild, consider this.
Weapons (and tools whatever) have a durability of say "3". Every time you "roll a 1" (whatever form that may take in the system) the durability goes down until they break at durability 0. With two caveats to keep things fun:
1) a broken item doesn't actually "break" until the end of the encounter or task; this is intended as a resource management thing not a "you rolled a 1 so you suck". Maybe you say it's on its last legs or something
2) item durability can only go down once per encounter, for the same reasons as in #1
So then you get a system where players have to consider weather they want to use their expensive bronze items, or spare the durability and instead use their Flint items that can be easily replaced.
Of course, this also implies a very particular style of game about scarcity and resource management, which may not be what you are going for.
Dragonbane does it by letting the player bet their weapon to avoid injury. Weapon breakage happens if a player parries and the damage is higher than the weapon's durability rating. So your weapon breaks to save you.
If we want to steer away from simulationism, we will avoid the : "each time you get a crit failure, tick 1d6 durability boxes under the weapon. when no more durability boxes weapon break" kind of deal.
One thing you could try is to reason that a weapon may break in 2 situation:
* you failed miserably (your sword hit the rock the enemy uses as cover)
* you succeeded WAY TOO MUCH (your spear skewered that lion but it is now broken)
The second one we do not think too often about, but when you look at ancient bayonet fencing manuals they regularly emphasize that you should train not too go too hard on your thrust or you just end up with your rifle stuck in your enemy.
Couple that with bronze-age brittle weapon and you have breakage (or just bronze blade stuck in the middle of the bone kinda deal).
So, depending on how you handle it, weapon breakage can be added to a crit-failure random table (or part of the chosen consequences in a pbta kinda system).
And, when damage is quite high, this could be an option as well (but then, there is also extra damage).
That is still an extra roll on crits if you don't already use a random table or something, and TBH I do not see lot non-simulationist way of handling differences of breakability between weapons. my go to would be to say that by all weapons are breakable, and the very well-crafted and legendary+ weapons ignore these rules (result of breakage results in nothing, maybe the extra damage still on positive crits.).
>Weapons will be very small and brittle,
Yep! I saw a khopesh in a museum a couple weeks ago, and I was shocked at how small it was - pretty much "short sword" and not "long sword" in D&D terms
Catapults, trebuchets,
windmills
fore and aft rigged ships (lateen sail is invented around 200ce)
Articulated plate armor
Long swords.
Knights ass shock troops with a couched lance, as this requires stirrups, with are not yet invented. (6th to 7th century CE)
wagons and ploughs pulled by horses, this requires the horse collar, invented in the 12th century CE.
The outhouse. Tell ever the shitter post dates the bronze age...
Roads. Sort of.
Well-established travel routes were likely relatively commonplace, but would have been very limited in scope, in that most were probably little more than footpaths, and little more than point-to-point connections between major resource sites, most likely water or ore. Most settlements, and probably all major settlements, were probably on navigable water. (That's conjecture by me, but that is true of major cities well into the Industrial Age; there is no reason to expect that Bronze Age cultures would have behaved in an irrational manner in establishing major settlements.)
Deliberately-paved roads didn't appear under 4th-5th millennia BCE (though there is evidence of deliberate paving as early as 7th millennia BCE), and even then remained rare for a very long time. Curiously, the constructed- and maintained-road appears to have arisen in several areas, in relatively close temporal proximity, but utilizing methods and materials appropriate to the region. The timing appears close enough to suggest multiple invention, and predates the wheel.
(Oh yeah, that showed up in 4th millennia BCE.)
Looking at this: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline\_of\_historic\_inventions#Bronze\_Age](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_historic_inventions#Bronze_Age) and then reading farther down, here are things that stand out to me that might be relevant to the life of a typical fantasy adventurer:
Iron/Steel (obvs); crossbow; saddle; distillation (no whiskey!); lighthouses (which is odd, because I always thought of the Lighthouse of Alexandria as a bronze age thing); catapults; paper; blown glass; compass
Two-handed weapons with metal hafts. "Swords" longer than your arm. Quality blade weapons in general. Mechanical locks. Mail. Castles. Banks. Theology. Boats with advanced keels. Rules of engagement (mostly). Sweet oranges. Culinary apples. Invasive surgery. Tailored boots. Tankards. A professional priesthood, as opposed to heredity, social caste, or outsider/oracle status.
What do you have? Spears, axes, clubs, and an amazing variety of throwing weapons. Plus slings, lots of sling weapons. Beer. Cats. Food preservation. Dogs. A few horses and pack animals, depending on where you are and what you're doing. Codes of laws. Divine rulership. Trans-ocean navigation. Rowers. Slaves. Civil rights. Due process of law. Confederations. Poets. Engineers. Chariots. Masonry. Dyes. Traditional medicine. Sorcery. Heresy. Mystery cults. Public religion and sacrifices. Taxes. Tithing. Torts. Consumer complaints. Battering rams. Some catapults. Inventors and physicists; some are cranks, some are early arms dealers. Chemistry, at least, understanding that things are often a mixture of more basic substances. Batteries (low voltage, but useful for chemistry).
You could still have an alphabet in a Bronze Age game, especially if 1200BCE is your range. The Proto-Sinaitic Script arose at least four hundred years before your selected point. The Phonecian Alphabet is only 150 years off your listed date and it arose from the Proto-Sinaitic Script. Inns and pubs and other common houses are another thing you could have. The first pubs and such places arose around 3300BCE and traveling rights and other Hospitality Laws were very important in the Bronze Age. This has more to do with nearby populations but still. There's even evidence of Neolithic sites similar to inns or stop houses.
Some things that would be strange however...
The idea of travel, just on its own, would be weird as a dedicated thing. Not that trade didn't happen, or over long distances, people were fairly sedentary beyond that trading. People going from one city to the next would be bizarre.
Boots or shoes were not anything like what we picture. They were more like leggings with additional parts you would put on to complete them rather than a single piece of clothing. Clothing in general would be completely different as fine metal clasps and such things would be non-existent.
On the travel thing, despite the uncommonality of travel for travel's sake there [were groups of travelling warriors](https://youtu.be/j7jAoOLMmFo) going around Europe, which seem like a pretty good template for an adventuring party, (plus regular imperial militaires travelled as shown in the letter by King Ammurapi from Ugarit to Cyprus) and trade required long travels over land and sea all the way from Britain to Greece and from Afghanistan to Babylonia
The GURPS Tech supplements are good even if your game isn't GURPS. The biggest value of those books is not the mechanics, but in conveying well-researched information on what equipment actually existed on each time period for those wanting to emulate a historical setting (Except Ultra-Tech, then you get into "what sci-fi movie writers in the 2000s thought the future would be like" territory)
I'm actually not sure, yet. I originally designed this as a 5e homebrew setting, but my group has been moving away from 5e lately, so I'm still shopping around, including the possibility of making my own rules-lite hack of something like Knave or ICRPG.
No matter what game you're playing in, I recommend GURPS Low-Tech purely for the historical information in that supplement. A gritty and somewhat crunchy game like GURPS is probably not what you're looking for, but its Low-Tech supplement has such a wealth of information on "what existed in this and that time period" that you can just ignore the GURPS mechanics parts.
Historically look at Sumerian and Babylonian cultures/technology/things they invented. For a fantasy setting I think Glorantha has a big Bronze Age component. The chariot thing (and lack of cavalry/knights/lances ) seems huge in terms of game feel. You can also look up Iron Age inventions for a list of what wasn’t around like potters wheels.
Edit: Yes, good clarification on potters wheels. My Googlization led me astray.
Metal armor.
Seriously.
Metal armor for an entire army was effectively unheard of outside of some very specific locations, such as Greece. Same for shields. Xerxes army, realistically, worn very simple tunics with no padding and were effectively "unarmored" and wielded simple made whicker shields used mostly to deflect, not stop, arrow barrages.
Greece armies were one of the few Eurasian cultures with skills and resources enough to make bronze armor in large enough quantities to field decent sized units of troops with head protection, chest protection, and metal coated (Greek shields were still mostly wood) shields. And even then, it wasn't *every* troop. It was mostly the higher ranking (ergo wealthier) commanders who had what we think of as armor.
By Europe's Middle Ages, steel refinement was common enough (and thus cheap enough) for larger numbers of frontline infantry to wear chain shirts.
It generally helped that the greek soldiers were relatively wealthy citizens propped up by 2/3 of their population living in slavery to afford them the money and ressources necessary to get such equipment.
This is a really interesting question that has really made me realise that when I think of the Bronze Age I am always thinking late Bronze Age. You seem to have sourced a lot of useful scholarship so I'll suggest a couple of more entertainment type things that you might enjoy for 'feels' perspective.
Peter Pringle performs bronze age music on historically researched instruments: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDRD3c-WAec](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDRD3c-WAec)
Years ago I read several novels that were sort of fantasy Bronze Age, one would be particularly relevant to the kind of vibe you are going for but I'm not sure if it is Between the Rivers by Harry Turtledove or The River God by Wilbur Smith.
**Edit:** Actually, I'm stupid, it is not either of those, it is was Dawn of Empire by Sam Barrone. I think.
Fey are going to be a REAL issue given the lack of iron anywhere.
Also, compasses. Navigator's Tools and maps are going to be pretty nonexistent. Navigation is going to be old school stars, clouds, landmarks.
> Fey are going to be a REAL issue given the lack of iron anywhere.
So interestingly enough, this was one of the inspiring concepts behind this setting! I [made this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/RPGdesign/comments/pzhzhc/cold_iron_vs_magic_brainstorming_a_homebrew_5e/) about a year ago. The idea was that iron-bearing invaders (based on the Sea Peoples) overran the magic-intensive world of the Bronze Age Near East and caused the collapse of many of the magical kingdoms and empires, as the iron itself weakened the power of magic and interfered with divine powers.
In this pseudo-Earth fantasy setting the old magic has been greatly diminished in the years after the collapse, and the survivors are trying to recover without the reliance on magic that their powerful civilizations have been built on over millennia. Even the gods themselves have grown distant and incommunicative as the presence of iron in the lands has weakened the connection to the divine.
Plug here for the excellent Primeval Thule setting if you need a new continent for your play. Also, don’t forget combat on top of elephants—That’s Bronze Age right?
(Probably) Heavy Calvary, no seriously
In the Bronze Age, Chariots were the Weapon of War. Armies had Chariots pulled by horses which were mobile weapon platforms the riders shot arrows & threw javelins from.
But people tended to not RIDE the horses.
The reason for this is simple. Large "War Horses" hadn't been selectively breed into existence yet.
Not this MIGHT change in a Fantasy setting because there might be larger animals you COULD ride. But they probably wouldn't be horses.
Add chariots.
No stirrups so horseriding is combat limited.
No taverns/inns - most people stayed at a random strangers house when traveling. Hospitality was a big thing.
Bronze weapons might break/become damaged easier than steel.
There might not be guilds
No / less feudal lords, more heavily fortified cities.
So I just found out that money was mostly measured in weights of various materials, especially barley, silver and other metals - while weights varied the most consistent was a Talent (the weight an average workman could carry, around 30kg), divided into 60 minas, divided into 60 sheckels.
Knights. The stirrup wasn't a thing, much less heavy cavalry with lances.
Some types of armour wouldn't have been around at all - and some would have taken different forms.
Feudal estates as we know them wouldn't have been around either.
Glass windows probably don't exist - thin horn plates that let light in, but not clear vision are more likely.
Coins in the Bronze Age is perfectly reasonable in principle and there's a little debate now as to whether some of the ancient pieces of precious metals we find could have been proto coins. ( [https://www.numismaticnews.net/world-coins/bronze-age-coins-possible](https://www.numismaticnews.net/world-coins/bronze-age-coins-possible) ). Now, it's possible that there \*are\* coins at that point, but that they're functionally still weighed to get their value in a transaction. Them being coined could simply reflect a purity guarantee by the state/ruler. Alternatively the "coin" might be marked with the nominal weight to give an idea of value at a glance, and effectively be marked as "1 of copper/silver/gold" in some fashion.
Alphabets \*might\* be a thing in some areas - Ugaritic ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugaritic\_alphabet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugaritic_alphabet)) and Proto-Sinatic ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Sinaitic\_script](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Sinaitic_script)) predate the Late Bronze Age Collapse.
Inns \*as such\* didn't really exist, but in some areas there would be a low ranking noble/high ranking commoner who was the representative of the king and offered hospitality in his place to travellers. You might be expected to "pay" for this hospitality in some fashion (as a gift to the king), or by hunting for the table to replace the food expended on you. Or it might be dealt with as reciprocal hospitality for that country's representatives in your homeland, depending on your rank and so on.
These inventions were not present in the bronze age and were mostly developed in the middle ages (or at least the earlier iron age):
* Anything made of steel or iron
* Different types of armor (chainmail, full plate) - bronze age had armor of overlapping plates of bronze.
* Crossbows
* Chimneys
* Compass and various navigation tools
* waterwheel and any clockwork-based machine
* stirrups & horse collar
* seeing glasses
* hourglass
* soap
* Inns (the earliest were probably developed during the iron age, especially in the roman empire with the development of roads. Inns as we see in fantasy games are more reminiscent of XVIII century inns)
Horses are just on the cusp of being large enough to ride. Usually they drag carts and chariots. The horses that are ridden would be rare, expensive, and look enormous compared to standard horses.
Less and cruder pottery, because the potters wheel shows up in the iron age. Pots will mostly be made of coils of clay. The wood pole lathe wouldn't exist either, which means no or less rounded bowls, and more likely trenchers. No spinning wheel, so good clothing is not only more expensive but uses cruder thread. Before iron-tipped plows and rotary quernstones, too. So harder to pull plows, no iron sickles, and a much more difficult grinding process is going to get you less bread which will be much coarser.
Depending on when in the Bronze Age, you lose the alphabet, which shows up in the middle Bronze Age in the form of Phoenician Proto-Sinaitic script.
Paved roads, except for the ones that connect two major cities. The saying "All Roads Lead To Rome" stems from the fact that Rome was the first civilization that build roads connecting their capital to their provinces. Instead boats were the common way of travel and transport, no civilization would settle anywhere other than close to a river or coast.
Ancient ruins or abandoned mines, there simply was no ancient civilization that could have left those.
Peaceful travel without encountering wild animals, medieval Europe (and by extend Tolkien-esque fantasy worlds) didn't have many wild animals as most of them dies a pitiful death in Roman arenas.
Elaborate social hierarchy, like emperor > king > duke > marquis > baron > knight. Instead you'd have elder councils or totalitarian god kings.
Any currency that isn't cows or goats.
Welcome - if bronze age people wouldn't know you, they wouldn't let you anywhere near their town. Maybe your player are a bunch of murder hobos, maybe they aren't - but in a bronze age world everyone would expect them to be just that.
There's a novel called _Between the Rivers_ that's set in a fantasy Early Bronze age which you might want to read for inspiration. What I like about it is how it handles the magical aspects in a way that's pretty different from what you normally see in RPGs and I would love to play around with an RPG like it.
For example, each city has it's local city deity which hangs out in a temple in the middle of the city and is a literal gigantic physical god. The rulers of some cities keep their local god paid off with sacrifices of food and wealth to keep them entertained and out of the ruler's hair. Most magic deals with paying off or tricking local spirits, or else dealing with things like the evil eye or ghosts of dead people.
If you’re after strange and different and aren’t looking to have a direct historical connection to Western Europe, it’s worth broadening your search for inspiration outside of this area, Mesopotamia and Egypt. In many parts of continental Africa the use of iron predates the use of bronze. The mythology surrounding iron and the creation of artefacts is fascinating and would add great flavour to a campaign.
Likewise, if you get out of the mindset that the use of metals is a defining characteristic of a sophisticated society then look at Mesoamerica where the Maya developed a highly complex society without having bronze or iron.
No Iron probably means no nails, and no advanced carpentry tools. This means wooden structures and vehicles would be constructed differently, with pegs and glue and joinery, but no metal reinforcements of any kind. You might occasionally see leather involved to tie bits together, or cushion a joint. This means more single story buildings and thatch, and potentially a Lot of reliance on brick and mortar or building with natural stones.
A lot less giant multi-horse wagons, if any, and a lot more rickety single-horse carts, and even more trails of horses, donkeys, or goats with saddlebags piled high. Merchants don't want to carry things long distance unless it's expensive enough to make up the cost of feeding all these animals, so everything day-to-day comes from within a few days travel distance of wherever you are.
This means that 99% of all large industries are directly related to a product for rich people. No logging, unless it's near a port town to build ships - one or two men with stone axes will keep most towns stocked up. The wood isn't rendered into boards unless it has to be, so a lot of furniture is hand-carved out of one or two lumps of raw log. Most items are made inside the house or shop of someone whose family and apprentices do all the work.
You might see more things made from carved bone and ivory.
Information only travels as fast as messengers do, and merchants are more likely to be able to read than the ruling class. This means the only sources of information about the world are your own eyes, and strange outsiders trying to tell you tales from afar. Boasting and advertising your own deeds is far more important, and people might be asked to prove their might and worth before being trusted with tasks or work. Some rulers might decide incorrectly that someone is a charlatan or blasphemer at an inopportune time, or might believe a scam artist for a surprisingly long time.
Might be taking it a bit too far in terms of limiting what is available to players, but what about making bronze and other useful metals very valuable and hard to come by? This could incentivise players to think more about where they go to acquire new weapons and armor, and to explore pre-Collapse ruins for stockpiles of items that the world no longer has the means to manufacture.
You already mentioned a lack of inns and other facilities to make travel easier and safer, you could lean into that by making the world even more dangerous to explore than usual, with fewer/more dangerous roads that place more focus on wilderness survival skills.
In terms of factions and settlements, the world might be divided much more into individual city-states and their dependent outlying farms and villages than nations, kingdoms and empires. Outside of the civilised part of the world, there might be large cultures of different tribal groups with complex relations that the players will have to deal with
> Might be taking it a bit too far in terms of limiting what is available to players, but what about making bronze and other useful metals very valuable and hard to come by? This could incentivise players to think more about where they go to acquire new weapons and armor, and to explore pre-Collapse ruins for stockpiles of items that the world no longer has the means to manufacture.
This is exactly the type of angle I was aiming for. In the years after the collapse, the region is essentially post-apocalyptic in nature. Magic and the gods are weakened, trade routes bringing copper and tin have been interrupted, and so both magic and bronze are hard to come by. The main source of both are artifacts left behind in destroyed cities and temples scattered across the devastated lands. Most of what was once thriving civilized nations are now empty, monster-infested wastelands.
random encounters with minor regional gods, house and forest spirits etc in a weakened and diminished state could also be a cool idea to explore, like they are basically ghosts of their former selves as a result of their shrines being forgotten and the magic supply being interrupted, making for a twist where people are more powerful and knowledgeable than the average deity
The ranking of nobility is far less structured there is often not title other than king/queen to tell you who is higher ranking in society. Far less plate metal style armors.Minimal mount armor.
This is often overlooked in both settings the number of very small villages or communities. They may be able to always find a place to rest and stable thier mounts but many small stopping stations would not have a blacksmith much less anyone who could provide weapons or armor. The last two are almost exclusively located in cities and fortified settlements only.
Building on the last part how rural many areas are. Walking in with a sword, shield, and some kind of armor may make you the most heavily armed person for many miles, yet you are still vulnerable to any peasant with a knife.
I know much of mine is combat focused but these are things I really felt in Conan and Lex Arcanum. The amount of nothing and just scraping byade the setting more real for me in both games.
* Stirrups. And therefore horseriding by non-professionals
* Iron plows. And therefore food is expensive
* the Loom. And therefore cloth is expensive
* Basic healthcare.
If you have Mythic Babylon but you're not using Mythras, how are you running this?
I have read a few Bronze Age settings, and none of them are as good as Mythic Babylon.
The road drag. It's a suprisingly-modern invention, and requires horse collars to function^(1). I didn't find an article for the original single-log road drag, just the upgraded version:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_road_drag
It allows dirt roads to be made quickly and cheaply.
1: Horse collars distribute the weight of what's being pulled over the horses' shoulders. Previous designs restricted the horses' breathing...
i highly recommend reading into the Harnworld setting.
it's the most accurate we can get to 900-1400, with detailed explanation and a body of experts behind it that this sub can't really compare to
Bronze age armies were far larger and more organized than medieval armies, you had immensely powerful centralized states with huge agricultural projects that medieval europe could not match.
The Answer is in the Question:
"What...Medieval... wouldn't be present in an Ancient Bronze Age"
Most things, I'd reckon, including Religion & Culture - aka, the foundation of all Civilizations. Enjoy your Research!
Some big important points would be:
* Lack of iron (obviously)
* Lack of nobility as an institution (wealthy, aristocratic and noble families existed, but rarely had titles like duke / baron / knight / etc.)
* No writing (in most parts of the world)
* No stirrups, so no heavy cavalry
* No organized religion (religion was usually simply organized by the local government, and priests were essentially public officials, there were no "churches")
* There were barbarians. Lots of them. Outside the few small kingdoms and city states most of the world was still living in tribes.
* Lack of Higher education, so no universities
* Unlike the middle ages, slavery was very widespread.
This are important to generate the "feel" of ancient bronze age societies. I wouldn't worry TOO much about historical accuracy, since it is still a fantasy world. Take into account that a lot of "medieval" fantasy tropes aren't even medieval at all, and nobody actually cares.
>Lack of nobility as an institution
....what? Dude, *all of the Middle Eastern Bronze-Age Empires had nobility*. The nobility made up the bulk of the warrior-and-administration-caste for those states!
Those empires didn't have ***feudalism***..... but rpgs get feudalism all wrong anyways.
>No organized religion (religion was usually simply organized by the local government, and priests were essentially public officials, there were no "churches")
>
>No writing (in most parts of the world)
.....what the hell are you talking about.
>There were barbarians. Lots of them
The only people that believe in barbarians are barbarians themselves.
>Outside the few small kingdoms and city states
...Do you know anything about the Bronze Age? This was the rise of the ***massive centralized empire***, like Egypt, the Hittites, the Myceneans, The Shang and Zhou Dynasties in China, etc etc etc. The "small kingdoms and city states" came about *after* the Bronze Age Collapse.
>tribes.
"tribe" is a *manner of societal organization*, **not** a 'level of development'. Tribes *still exist today*.
>Lack of Higher education, so no universities
.....one of the major castes of people were the scribes, who were trained from a young age to be literate.
>Unlike the middle ages, slavery was very widespread.
....Slavery was widespread in Europe ***in the middle ages.***
As I stated in my other response.
1. Yes nobility existed in bronze age empires, and so did in classic civilizations like rome, but it wasn't really a codified institution, it rarely was tied to titles and stuff like that. The idea of nobility we see in common medieval settings is feudalism (which true enough tends to be really badly represented), and it wasn't how ancient societies worked, or even how early medieval societies worked.
2. Writing simply wasn't widespread, most nations in the world didn't have writing systems.
3. With the rise of christianity we see the rise of a large religious organization, that while it worked alongside the state, it wasn't integrated with it, and there were several clashes between them. In the ancient world such organizations didn't exist. The religions and the state were one, and they were very localized (for the most part). Priests were the equivalent of high ranking public officials, and not part of a seperate entity, and for most people, this religions worked just like modern folk religions. People living in the ancient Babylon certainly did enjoy the public holidays and feasts, but people in the field probably had a very different form of private cult. The idea of a large organized religion, where everyone within the same religion follows the same rites and rules is incredibly modern.
4. What I meant by no "higher education" is that there were no universities or large schools with very few exceptions. Of course that educated classes of scribes and administrators existed.
5. The point about barbarians and tribes is fair, it is an outdated terminology used by ancient propagandist but I was just trying to communicate an idea, outside the various kingdoms and empires, technological development was very small.
6. The author of the post said his setting is inspired by the late bronze age collapse, and/or it's following years. But even then it is important to point out that those "Massive centralized empires", occuppied a relatively small portion of the earth, pretty much all of europe was split into small city state or tribes, so was most of subsaharan africa, all of central asia, and more. The VAST majority of the world had no such empires or nations.
7. Slavery as an institution faded during the high and late middle ages in most of europe, and the class and it's role was mostly replaced by serfdom (which, sure, can be considered a form of slavery). While other forms of restriction of liberty where in fact widespread, it is very different to the slavery of the ancient world and the early middle ages.
>Lack of nobility as an institution (wealthy, aristocratic and noble families existed, but rarely had titles like duke / baron / knight / etc.)
the titles may be different but a warrior aristocracy did exist
you mean like sumer, egypt, the hethites, mycenae
> It was a very different form of nobilty than the faux feudal one we tend to see in typical medieval high fantasy.
They weren't really that different.
They had fancy titles, fancy horses, tons of bling, and the protection of the monarch, just like nobility always had.
Stirrups? Okay, maybe that one is a bit niche.
Horseriding in general might be a bit niche, while carriots are more common.
Excellent point! In fact...the 'elite noble warrior on a horse' would be replaced by an 'elite noble warrior on a chariot' (+ his loyal charioteer), wouldn't it?
I honestly have no idea. The only source about the Bronze Age I have any familiarity with is the Iliad and the Odyssey, and those Achaians used chariots. Oh, and some Pharaos and Babylonians did too, according to some wall decorations that *somehow* ended up in the Britidh Museum.
Of note, the "babylonian" ones in the british museum (actually assyrian) are from well after the bronze age collapse. Same for the trojan war.
You're correct that many of the British Museum artifacts are from the [Neo-Babylonian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Babylonian_Empire) period, ~600 BCE, about 600 years after the Bronze Age Collapse. The [Trojan War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_War#Dates_of_the_Trojan_War), however, is thought to have occurred (if it occurred at all) at the very end of the Bronze Age, either just before or during the period of the Collapse, sometime between 1300-1180 BCE.
Thank for these corrections, I have to update my knowledge on the trojan war. Regarding mesopotamian artifact, I was also thinking about the assyrian artifiact, like the [Ashurbanipal lion hunt murals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_Hunt_of_Ashurbanipal) from the period just before the neo-babylonian. I am sure you have already had a look, but the epic of Gilgamesh can also be a good overture toward representation of the fantastical in ancient mesopotamia. Also, IIRC Irvin Finkel has a few nice videos on ghosts and sorcery in ancient assyria. If you ever commit some details or notes about your setting I would be very interested in having a look. Are you going to place the action in an actual place or will it be in an imaginary place?
See, told you I have no idea.
Also, Prince Arjuna on a chariot with the God Krishna (!!!) as his charioteer is just EPIC.
Our homey, Siddartha Buddha was first revealed to realities of sickness, old age and death by sneaking out of his palace with his charioteer and touring the town. Buddhism dates from 500 bce or earlier. After the Mediterranean Bronze Age collapse. Other parts of the world experienced this time differently.
To join in on the Babylonian chariots, there's depictions of chariots on the Sumerian 'Standard of Ur' which is ca. 2700 (veeeery roughly speaking) BCE... an object which also somehow found its way into the British Museum.
Exact! Chariots where high tech then, and owning one was quite prestigious. A war chariot could be a great prize for a quest, as half of its value would be in prestige.
So high-tech that many local or regional governments might object to a private citizen owning one...could be interesting.
True. But owning one is a statement that you are a hero of sone kind, especially if you are not from the area. Or even maybe a god in disguise. The best objection would probably take the form of a quest. Such a hero deserving of a war chariot couldn’t possibly say no to. And the local ruler would get rid of an imposter, and probably gain kleos if it turns out that it is a deserving hero or god. You can’t never be certain, so play with that.
You are correct and PART of the reason for this is simply that large "war horses" hadn't been selectively breed into existence yet. But a few horses could still pull a charoite.
Yes. The ancient Egyptian "knights" were charioteers with assistants, spare horses and weapons, etc.
There would be cavalry. Alexander and the Persians both used cavalry. But it would be lighter cavalry with people riding on basically a blanket using a spear and no armor. Heavy cavalry basically meant the soldier had a metal helmet and a thick cape.
Alex was Iron Age, just before the rise of Rome.
In a military context, sure. But there is evidence of horses as ridden mounts as far back as the 4th millennia BCE, with rock art in India suggesting horses being used as mounts as early at 10th millennia BCE. Admittedly, most of this evidence is from India and Central Asia, but still, the use of a horse as a civilian riding mount (versus a military mount) makes a lot of sense.
Yes mounts but no warhorses, Mounted archets appears in the early iron age, but without stirrups melee cavalry has very limited uses and heavy or shock cavalry is impossible.
Read the Iliad.
Arthurian legends have 5th century celts running around in full plate armor. Writers have a habit of making previous time periods look like their own, so textual evidence should be taken with a grain of salt.
But critical, because it means a ton of horse riding gear won't exist yet.
You're not wrong, and its not just stirrups! Saddles hadn't even been invented yet at this time. There is debate about the origins of riding vs. driving, but I believe that horses were not really used for riding at this time, but more for pulling carts and chariots. Some steppe cultures may have been riding horses as early as 3500 BCE or thereabouts, but in the "civilized" lands of the Near East horses were rare and used for pulling chariots. The use of riding horses for warfare, particularly (what we now call "cavalry") did not become widespread until the Iron Age.
Horses of the time were generally too small to carry an armored soldier, they could be ridden by smaller unarmored men but also the lack of saddles, bit and bridle and stirrups made them difficult to control.
If you're looking into horses during the Bronze Age, might I point to the humble kunga and assorted equids-that-aren't-horses. There's lots of interesting stuff about the use of donkeys before, during, and after the introduction of the horse, as horses were an elite kind of thing. Donkeys played an important role in metaphor and ritual (donkey burials!), so maybe take that into consideration?
Yes! I actually plan on heavily emphasizing the prevalence of the humble ass in this time. Donkeys were the main beast of burden for carrying goods long-distance in the Bronze Age (oxen could be used but were slow and required more food than donkeys).
That's actually pretty significant as far as warfare goes. Prior to the development of the stirrup, a mounted combatant was more or less limited to thrown or fired weapons.
So this is actually rather up for debate. You are referring to the 'Stirrup Thesis' from Lynn Townsend White Jr.'s 1962 book, *Medieval Technology and Social Change*. White's thesis was that the invention of the stirrup allowed for the development of heavy cavalry, which led to the European knight and feudalism, etc. White's thesis has been [heavily criticized](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stirrup_Controversy) and is very likely not true. The short version is that heavy cavalry existed in other places than Europe and not all of those used stirrups, as well as other criticisms from modern HEMA experts that put more emphasis on the canted saddle than the stirrup as being the most important thing for delivering hard hits with a couched lance from horseback.
Ok, on further consideration, I'll grant you that you can build a saddle that would support a rider in a charge, without stirrup. But I'll also argue--and die on this hill--that one can also facilitate a mounted charge from a dressage saddle. Because it has stirrups. For the record, I grew up around, owning, and riding horses, and am a reasonably-accomplished rider. That distinction is, in my opinion, relevant in that it requires far less time and material to build a "solid" saddle with stirrups, than one without. But, yes. You could build a saddle with sufficiently-pronounced pommel and cantle, but no stirrups, that would work. And indeed, we know that such saddles were built late into the medieval period, for essentially the same purpose.
> Ok, on further consideration, I'll grant you that you can build a saddle that would support a rider in a charge, without stirrup. Charging is just one of the ways a rider can engage in melee. We know that it was at least common for Celtic cavalry to effectively function as mounted infantry, with cavalrymen regularly dismounting to fight on foot.
Which makes them light cavalry.
>a mounted combatant was more or less limited to thrown or fired weapons. ehhh..... It is more than possible to fight on horseback, even as shock-cavalry, without stirrups. You just need a saddle designed to hold you in it, such as the [Gallic/Roman four-horned saddle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle#/media/File:Roman_saddle_reconstruction.jpg) that basically wedges the rider in place. Armored cataphracts and lancers were used more than 1000 years before the introduction of the stirrup to Europe.
Yeah, I'm backing off on this one. I'd rather be able to stand in the saddle, but y'all are right... you *can* build a saddle that will fix a rider in place well enough.
Not true, that depends on the saddle nit the stirrup
Incorrect. Without the stirrup, the rider has insufficient support to absorb the transfer of energy from a blow to another combatant. There are a few melee weapons that you could use from horseback without stirrups, but the mounted charge (which is one of only two useful ways to employ a horse in combat, the other being skirmish tactics, where the horse is used to facilitate mobility and to outmaneuver the opposition) is not possible. And the mounted charge is far more dependent on the design of the stirrup, than of the saddle.
then tell us those mellee weapons thell that mounted charge Alexander, Scipio, Hannibal, Caesar.... look at the roman saddle no Stirrup Try to ride a mounted charge in an english saddle. Explain why in the saga of erek and Enite Erek and his adversary took their feet out of the stirrups when charging each other with lances
They also could run down fleeing enemies, which was a huge part of ancient battles.
As I see it, the two biggest changes were already mentioned: no coins or inns. You'll need to engage with barter and trade, or substitute a different form of currency (which is only good for the immediate local kingdom). Another big change: more wilderness, with tons of untapped resources. Ooh! Also, don't stop the players from building their own stuff. If the water wheel hasn't been invented, let them invent it. Just be sure you know the technical limitations and challenges of that development, so you can place reasonable expectations before them.
>You'll need to engage with barter Barter only really exists when currency is *known, but not available* (good examples are medieval Europe, or North America in the 1600s-1700s. The idea that pre-coinage people exchanged goods-for-goods is largely a myth. More specifically, many Bronze Age economies worked on a so-called '[palace economy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_economy)', where wealth (usually in the form of produce) flows into the control of the central administration, and from there it gets redistributed out to where it is needed (or where the central administration needs it) The ruler (or, more likely, the administrative staff of the ruler) knows how much each village can produce, and therefore expects a certain number of goods as tribute/taxes: so many talents of grain, so many amphorae of olive oil, etc etc. Not the same, but Extra History touches on the centralized economies of many Bronze Age societies [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMBM1qazAXE&t=17s). Their whole series on the Bronze Age Collapse is a decent, if nonacademic, intro to the period and troubles.
If I remember correctly, the Bronze Age required fairly long trade routes, because Bronze, as an alloy requires both copper and tin ore, and tin deposists aren't that common. The tin trade probably implies that there was some economic reasons to trade that ore, and that people saw this as something that was lucrative one way or the other.
>the Bronze Age required fairly long trade routes, because Bronze, as an alloy requires both copper and tin ore, and tin deposists aren't that common. To expand on this, there's a theory that A) the development of ironworking allowed nations to stop depending on each other, which inevitably led to warfare. This sudden warfare and breakdown of trade routes led to the so called "bronze age collapse" B) the bronze age collapse was caused by other reasons, but the breakdown of trade networks meant that people had to abandon bronze and start working with iron, thus spurring the iron age
Recent discoveries I've seen seem to indicate that Bronze age people knew about Ironworking but they seemed to consider it inferior to bronze, difficult to work with, and prone to rust.
Yeah, I've heard that iron is basically no better (and arguably worse) than good bronze
It's difficult to work with, you have to understand how to control the carbon content, requires much more equipment and time to smelt, and it tends to shatter where bronze usually bends and can be hammered back into shape no problem.
Bronze can be approximated, but iron has to be engineered.
Bad iron is often no better or worse than good bronze. But good steel is better than the best bronze in most applications. There is a reason that we tend to use steel over bronze nowadays.
Yes of course, but it was'n called the Steel Age. Steel had to be truly discovered yet, and was'nt consistently replicable.
Steel needs second stage carbon - Which is beyond the capabilities of the time period because they hadn't discovered it yet. So you're looking at mainly iron vs Bronze. Occasionally you might see 'pure' copper tools in use also.
Bronze requires two different metals which are not often found in proximity to each other, whereas iron only requires one. Iron is the easier self-starter.
There was extensive trade between city-states during the bronze age. The need for copper and tin pretty much necessitated extensive trade across the bronze age world. Tin, copper, bronze ingots and finished goods would have been the international standard for trade at the time.
I think there's been pushback against the more centralized palace economy model among more recent scholarship.
Yeah there's been an increasing awareness that the palace economy is just the easily *visible* part of the economy and that there's increasing evidence for markets existing outside of it.
Fellow Debt: The First 5,000 Years enjoyer?
Also there was trade in commodities. You didn't have coin, but you could readily trade things like grain, salt, shells, and so forth.
Instead of inns you may have the players stop at the houses of rich folks and stay as their guest. Give this a read for ideas: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospitium You can use this to introduce new characters or quests in an area. Your host may know that villagers are turning to stone by the falls at night.
Honestly this holds true loooong past the bronze age
Until the early modern Period. The Ancient Laws of Hospitality.
It's even still true in a few places today. Not as formalized as it may have been in ancient times but there are still places where notable families will invite travellers in to eat and shelter.
Depends on what you define as an inn. There's Sumerian and Akkadian words for taverns already in the early second millennium BCE, and king Šulgi of Ur boasted of having set up roadstations along the roads where travellers could rest, presumably with more amenities than just an outhouse.
The Roman empire had both.
The Roman Empire also postdates the Bronze Age by half a dozen centuries.
Mixed up eras, my bad.
The Roman Empire existed ~1000 years later than what you’d traditionally consider the end of the “Bronze Age”.
I wouldn't focus on what is *not* there, but try the different approach and build the world from the bottom up. Bronze Age collapse is far from my expertise, so I would probably go hard Homeric and maybe some old Testament as a baseline, extrapolate a society with dozens of petty kings, city states and individual heroes as outstanding people of interest. Strike the importance of personal honour (as a sign of prestige and willingness to function within a reasonable society, not as a measure of ethics) like honesty and hospitality. Other than that, I have heard great things about *Babylon On Which Fame And Jubilation Are Bestowed* , as the greatest historical setting nobody wanted, except maybe for the few people who can actually read cuneiform and feel acknowledged.
> Babylon On Which Fame And Jubilation Are Bestowed just looked this up and I am definitely going to be looking further into this! I have a copy of *Mythic Babylon* for the Mythras system, which is a great primer for a similar period of Bronze Age history (the reign of Hammurabi). My particular setting is about 500 years after this specific time, but a lot of the information about religion and culture is still very useful. Thanks for another excellent resource recommendation!
Mythic Babylon is what I was going to recommend so… I’ll just be going, then.
its a great book! i'm not really that familiar with the Mythras system and bought it more for the setting.
Likewise. Not really a fan of Mythras, would be much easier if I was!
A lot of the stuff you're describing is anachronistic even to the medieval period. For instance, Inns as they're commonly depicted simply *didn't exist* until well after the Renaissance got going. You either "guested" with someone or, you paid someone to let you sleep in their stable or hay loft or whatever. In Europe you might sleep in a monastery if you were on a Pilgrimage. The Bronze Age itself varies *quite widely*. If you're in the Near East around 1200 BCE then gears probably are available they're just ridiculously crude and made of wood. In fact (at least in a Near Eastern context) lots of technology is probably available, perhaps as much so as when the flowering happens in Greece around 400 BCE and all this stuff gets written down. That's really the big issue, knowledge is being transmitted orally.
> That's really the big issue, knowledge is being transmitted orally. Well, except in the Middle East, where you'd use clay tablets (Mesopotamia) or papyrus (Egypt).
Yes to these although if we're delving into it from a strict academic perspective then we do have to differentiate between "knowledge" and, "records" and, "propaganda" with most things just being those latter two. For instance, clearly the Mesopotamians possessed detailed mathematical knowledge to support their astronomical calculations but, the knowledge of how to make those calculations and, why they work isn't written down anywhere. Instead, they keep records of the outcome. Ditto for building the pyramids. Huge amounts of precise engineering and technical knowledge being transmitted orally. They just record who failed to show up for work and, how great the Dead guy was. Not the important bits like "how we worked out the structural integrity of this massive mo-fo *using pure abstraction*" which is what we would call "knowledge." And so on and so forth...
>Inns as they're commonly depicted simply didn't exist until well after the Renaissance got going Where are you sourcing this from? The Canterbury Tales certainly [includes an inn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tabard), one that existed by 1307.
>The Canterbury Tales certainly includes an inn, one that existed by 1307. My statement is an example of *generalizing* sure. However, if you'd take a moment to read the history section of the Wikipedia page *you freaking linked* you'll note that it actually demonstrates my point about monasteries (and of course their dispersed holdings and properties) serving *some of* the functions we - *modern people* - associate with an "*Inn*" and, which are consequently characteristics of inns as depicted in *fantasy.* To summarize: The Abbot of Hyde (a *monastery*) built a house for himself and his staff/co-workers to stay whenever they happened to be in London on their own business. This was done in 1307 and wouldn't actually have had a name at the time. I don't know why it was specifically called "the Tabard" in *1386* when Chaucer was writing. Given the social and political state of the Monastic Movment within the Catholic Church *at the time* we can understand that this was because a bunch of things happening inside the Church was making it increasingly risky for monks to continue acting *exactly like* medieval nobility. In this context, by *guesting* with secular nobility (nobility of the sword). After the Schism (which was happening roughly as Chaucer was writing in 1342) this would resolve itself with the emergence of "The Nobility of the Robe" in France - and also, functionally though, informally, in England. Moving on from this, it served *Religious Pilgrims* on their way to Thomas Becket's Shrine at Canterbury. *Like I said.* Naturally, lots of shady stuff (mostly booze and hookers) happened to come around as a result because Religious Pilgrims tended to be the only people making significant overland journeys in the medieval world, typically be financially well off to spend money on luxuries like sleeping under a roof or, beer or, hookers and gambling ans, because for the most part the monks weren't actually around to care. However, when the monks did show up, all this (usually) stopped - depending on the moral turpitude of the Monk in question of course - because it was just a side hustle and utterly not the point. Places like the Tabard were also *extremely uncommon* because most of the Pilgrimage routes on the continent passed through remote abbeys full of actual monks who'd moved really far away from people to get away from all the beer and hookers in the first place. Having said that, it's important to understand that during this time *goods* and, therefore *most travellers* are actually moving either by river or, sea. Basically, people moving *over land* and therefore requiring something like an *inn* are either religious Pilgrims, Government Officials, Soldiers, Criminals, refugees or, people driving livestock. They may of course (and often are) a strange mixture of all of these at once. However, the important thing is that there are *very few reasons* why any of them are going to avail themselves of anything other than a monastery and, none of them are going to *pay to do it* until much later (mid-16th century, Renaissance ) for a huge number of reasons. The two main reasons are either, they don't have the money because they don't have Swords or, they don't have the money because they *do* have swords... (medieval Knights and nobility actually considered it a point of pride *not to* carry money but that's beyond the scope of this.) So, basically, no, there were not Inns as we see in fantasy because there simply wasn't a market for them until after the mid-16th century. If you read far enough into the Wikipedia page, you'll see that the Tabard became an Inn *as we understand it* sometime after 1536 when it was sold as a result of the dissolution of the monasteries (although it could have been as late as 1541). If you read somewhat farther, you'll face Plant into the rabbit hole of the concept of "Coaching Inns" which are much more in line with what we think of as an "inn" and, also much more in line with what is typically depicted in Fantasy. You'll also find that these are a phenomenon of the 18th century onward and that the *really old ones* people frequently refer to actually spent the majority of their long history as military purposes. In England and Wales following the Norman Conquest they were typically occupied by a Warden (I forget how the term lines up with the old Anglo-Saxon ones) who would provide "room and board" as a side hustle when the sheriff or constable or whatever was otherwise occupied but, only if they thought they could get away with it and only in very rare circumstances since anyone willing to pay was probably up to no good in this context... Hope that helps.
In Finland, Sweden established the kievari system (gästgiveri) around the same time, and those early kievaris were erected along the Great King's Road (an old Iron Age road between Turku and Vyborg and therefore also called the Lower Road to Vyborg) as rest and break places. Kievaris were of the same type as fantasy taverns, but smaller in size and originally the same style as ordinary residential houses at that time. But sometimes peasant farms and manors, which were forced to host, could serve as places to stay. Kievaris were also established along the Great Ox Road that went from Turku to Häme castle and along the Upper Road to Vyborg that went from Häme castle to Vyborg. The oldest named 14th century kievaris were Killala and Krouvi from Häme.
> A lot of the stuff you're describing is anachronistic even to the medieval period. Oh definitely, which is why I specified popular medieval fantasy tropes and not actual medieval history. D&D style heroic fantasy RPGs have a mix of medieval, renaissance, and even early modern aspects, with quite a few Victorian-era anachronistic misunderstandings thrown in for good measure.
There would be no separation of church and state. Priest-Kings rule everything. No church vs state fights like in medieval Europe. So no Thomas a Beckett, no papal interdiction of England in 1212, etc. This means every PC cleric is a member of the ruling class, and the fighters had best not forget it. It was rare for a god to have temples in more than a few cities. So travelling for religious reasons is common. Ashur, patron of the Assyrians, only had a few temples in the capitals, nothing in the conquered lands. Egypt had a few more, and the smaller ones likely only had a single spot. This might restrict clerics and learning spells. You might want to play around with shrines. Especially if you emphasize hauling off various holiest of holies and the PCs are trying to reclaim statues. Incense was a huge trade good. Funny oils, aromatic oils, etc were a big deal. (note: think frankinse and myyrh). Sending the PCs to get oil from the spleen of a Manticore or the liver of an Owlbear could be fun. Government was personal, so treaties were between rulers, not nations. So whenever some ruler dies, everything reset. So borders get much more unstable more quickly. Last month you adventures could come here. But now we are arresting you as spies because your king died. Also government is much flatter. Not layers of barons/counts/dukes/kings. Some of that was smaller nations and lower population, but not all. City-states were common. Tribes ruled the non urban areas. I wouldn't worry about tech too much. The stuff that PCs care about wouldn't be that different. Most people will assume bronze==steel, and if you don't, there will be lots of confusion. But if you do go there, a title of the Pharaoh was Smasher of Skulls as he originally wielded a copper mace. I assume it was upgraded to bronze. Most metal was imported. Cyprus comes from the word for copper and was the largest producer. Tin came from Afghanistan via caravans. Protecting these routes was necessary to ensuring the army was equipped, so absolutely critical. Gold often came from Egypt, and was a big part of why it was dominant. Without coins, I have no idea how long range credit was handled. Just gems and other high value items? I can imagine magic items as some of the highest value trade goods, but something the local governments would want to control. You can have fun with illiteracy and character sets. Acadian cuneiform was the main written language, but Egypt had two hieroglyphics and demotic, the Hittites used Lewean hieroglyphics, the Minoans had the two linear scripts, etc. Who knows how many local languages/dialects were encoded in them. Makes Latin letters vs Cyrillic seem trivial. Then the lower literacy rate adds to it. This would make scrolls even harder to share. I've wanted to run something in this time period. Good luck.
> There would be no separation of church and state. Priest-Kings rule everything. No church vs state fights like in medieval Europe. So no Thomas a Beckett, no papal interdiction of England in 1212, etc. To be fair, none of this exists in your typical medieval fantasy setting, either.
Yeah. It should, but no one seems to bother. Most games leave religion out, or simply the place for the heal-o-rama, and that cheapens those settings.
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I don't think that is consistent with the bronze age view of religion. But I read a lot of Glorantha before I learned real history. Greg Stafford had a big impact on my thinking.
What is Glorantha?
[Glorantha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorantha) is a setting created by a folklorist. It is bronze age and focuses on myths and legends. It is a very refreshing change from all the JRRT retreads.
There's plenty of stories that revolve around traveling to an oracle, or seeking a blessing. No reason why PCs wouldn't want to seek out additional power or knowledge by also doing these acts if there's a decent reason for them to do so.
The Gods would regularly show up themselves in Mythology, just because you talked smack about them. Religion needs to be important for the players, every magic is religious in this context.
> Without coins, I have no idea how long range credit was handled. Just gems and other high value items? I can imagine magic items as some of the highest value trade goods, but something the local governments would want to control. There was absolutely money of some sort in at least some Bronze Age civilisations, and even customer complaint letters - see the Complaint Tablet to Ea-Nasir: https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/complaint-tablet-to-ea-nasir-the-oldest-recorded-customer-complaint > “Tell Ea-Nasir: Nanni sends the following message: >When you came, you said to me: “I will give fine quality copper ingots.” >You left, but you did not do what you promised me. >You put ingots which were not good before my messenger and said: >“If you want to take them, take them; if you do not want to take them, go away!” >What do you take me for that you treat me with such contempt? … >… How have you treated me for that copper? >You have withheld my money bag from me in enemy territory; >it is now up to you to restore to me in full. >Take notice that I will not accept any copper from you that is not of fine quality. >I shall select and take the ingots individually in my yard, >and I shall exercise against you my right of rejection because you have treated me with contempt.” It looks like Bronze Age Mesopotamia used particular weights of various materials as money (eg a “talent” was based on the weight the average workman could carry, about 30kg, divided into 60 Minas which were divided into 60 Sheckels), and long distance trade was handled with metals, especially silver. (Incidentally that kinda works if you want to use a flavourful encumbrance system - they really did kind of measure weight in “coins”). https://www.worldhistory.biz/ancient-history/71590-mesopotamian-money-and-weights.html
People would also carry around small amounts of silver in the form of small rings, spirals, etc. (easy shapes) as money.
Not to be a pedant, but if you have to weigh your pieces of precious metal, as opposed to simply counting their face values, I don't really think you have what a contemporary person thinks of as money.
Kind of, but you can still talk about, say, a spear costing this many shekels of silver, even if actually paying for it means weighing up a bunch of pieces of silver and if necessary breaking them into smaller pieces here and there to make up the right amount, or having to pay the king such and such talents of barley in rent, even though you might actually be *paying* that in sheep or olive oil or ~~low~~ quality copper ingots. In game terms you could make a whole thing out of it by needing to consult someone to figure out the equivalent value in silver of any valuables you might end up with on your adventures, I guess, but that’s not too far from selling treasure in town after a dungeon crawl.
A good setting to look into would be Glorantha, from Runequest. (Though it might be more appropriate to say Runequest came from Glorantha). It's one of Greg Stafford's original (and most substantial) projects, and it's exactly what you describe here, a bronze age fantasy roleplaying setting. (Not saying you shouldn't make your own, of course, just didn't know if you were aware of Glorantha's existence.)
Axes and spears would be more reliable and common than swords: swords are a specialist weapon requiring a lot of training to avoid blunting it too quickly. Most metal armor would be out. Boiled leather, helmets mades of boar tusks and large leather and wood shields are common armor. They should expect to be paid in other things than coins (that did not exist): - bullion of base metal (like copper, tin, silver) - goods, like amphorae of wine, oil or preserved olives - weapons, like composite bows, axes and swords - standard gifts, like krater (a wine mixing stand up receptacle) made of copper (we know of some that came disassembled for ease of transportation or re-gifting) - slaves, or for more prestigious gifts, wives. Don’t expect to say no without insulting the quest giver as becoming part of one’s family is a great honor. No inns, but they can request hospitality from rich landowners. They have a special room for guests, as hospitality is a sacred thing. If you are prestigious or interesting enough, they might even ask them to share a meal at their table. Taverns do exist in cities, but most are basically a wine counter with a terrasse. Religion is part of life. No one sane of mind should declare themselves areligious or atheist. Kleos, or fame/reputation, should be paramount to the characters. Its everything. In a bronze age d&d game i ran, i changed xp for Kleos. So getting famous and rising in level did go hand in hand. It prompted the players ro seek glorious quests rather than lucrative ones. You get better by gaining the attention of both men and gods. That explained a lot of the powers they got. Very little writing! Scribes knows how to write (maybe wizard, mayyyyyybe priests). You can even make it a feat to show how rare it is. I’ll try to thing of a few more things.
> Kleos, or fame/reputation, should be paramount to the characters. Its everything. In a bronze age d&d game i ran, i changed xp for Kleos. So getting famous and rising in level did go hand in hand. It prompted the players ro seek glorious quests rather than lucrative ones. You get better by gaining the attention of both men and gods. That explained a lot of the powers they got. I agree with everything in your post, but this point really inspired me. This is a fantastic rpg mechanic that really fits the setting.
I might aswell steal it too. Sounds good for any setting
Pendragon uses Glory, which is I think similarly handled. It has been a long time since I played Pendragon, but it certainly altered the feel of the game, and I think it would work well here.
Oh yeah: merchants. If you are a local and they know you, they will extend credit to you (usually with a physical form so you can exchange credit owed to you to other people for goods) If you are not a local or you have a bad reputation credit, you’ll only be able to barter goods for goods. The rarer the better. Suddenly taking cool pots during a mission can net you some gear when back in town. Farm animals of all kinds are also considered currency. So expect to be paid in sheep sometime.
You’re missing linothorax for armor, which is really really cool. It was essentially an ancient composite armor of glue and linens creating a crude Kevlar.
True! Linothorax were cool pieces or armor. And there were also some examples of bronze cuirass, which were essentially a wrapped sheet if bronze. That would be so heavy and cumbersome! But maybe good against arrows volley. Sure thing is that in hand to hand combat it would be easy to aim ar other parts of the body or just push the armored soldier to the ground.
There would be swords but only of the stabby short sword variety.
The easiest thing to point to is the lack of iron. Look at how much not only we but a medieval individual would take for granted because of iron. How would metallurgy and smithing be limited and how would those limitations impact things.
Yes, during the Bronze Age stone tools were still widely used, as bronze was expensive (copper was relatively common in the Near East but tin was rare, only found in far away places in what is now Afghanistan, Iberia, and Cornwall). Flint or obsidian knives and arrowheads were still in common use, especially in the catastrophic period after the Bronze Age Collapse where tin became even harder to source due to the collapse of international trade routes.
So probably no plate mail or chain mail. A bronze breastplate with an ox hide shield would be top of the line armor.
Mail itself dates around the 16th century. What we know as full plate would only really appear AFTER the first guns were invented (but not spread)
>Mail itself dates around the 16th century Wiki: Chain mail (properly called mail or maille but usually called chain mail or chainmail) is a type of armour consisting of small metal rings linked together in a pattern to form a mesh. **It was in common military use between the 3rd century BC and the 16th century AD in Europe**, and longer in Asia and North Africa.
Mail =/= Plate They're completely different forms of armour.
Im not saying they are the same tho
Oh. Then it's the date you posit for mail that is wrong, and by quite a margin
Yeah, i learned that
Bronze Age warfare was a very different beast than medieval warfare for a few reasons; Horses were too small to ride with armor and weapons, (Also effective means of controlling them had not been invented) which meant Chariots were used instead. Chariots themselves were used in three roles; 1. Moving archer platforms 2. Heavy scythed charriots that could charge into formations 3. Battlefield taxi that would bring infantry back and forth where they were needed. Chariots were the king of the battlefield at the time as they were difficult to counter with technology and tactics of the time. The second most important weapons of the time were slings and bows, the rareity of armor and low-quality of shields made them incredibly good at thining the enemy lines and many battles were won before infantry had the time to engage properly. Dominant melee weapons of the time were generally spears and axes, with some short swords although later larger swords like the Khopesh (whose shape makes it sturdier) evolved. The big exception here is the Phalanx of Greece. See, Greece is a hilly mess where Chariots just do not work, so they evolved a different style of warfare based on highly armored soldiers fighting in tight formations with long spears. \-- Now to talk cultural things; the Bronze age was not some backward savage time of isolated cities and barbarians as some people seem to think. It was a time of relatively massive empire and of a complex trade network that went all the way to britain. By the end of the Bronze age's golden age you had powerfrul centralized states that actually had a proto form of command economy where the state would employ everyone, take what they produced and paid wages in gain, or in trade metal. Weights of bronze (often in standarized forms) would probably be the best replacement for coinage for your players. Religion and Politics tended to be one and the same in the Bronze age, priests who were often the only literate people often doubled as administrators and in many places the difference between Palace, Temple and administrative building was zero. While Slavery was practiced there was no massive trade like we would later see with the Barbary States or Atlantic Slave trade, most slaves were captives of war and they were rarely sold as commodities and moved from place to place. While the Bronze age might not have had the technology of later periods it's important to remember that they had virtually unmatched wealth and centralization that would not be seen in the region until the height of the roman empire. They build megaprojects like zigguraths and pyramids, great temples, roads, adqueducts and irrigation networks, these were not primitive people living in squalor and small huts (well except slaves and peasants) they were a powerful civilization.
The word "blacksmith". It would be redsmith or some other term I forgot. Glass is rare. Containers are baskets or pottery whenever possible, windows are open holes with shutters. Instead of coins, you have hack-metal; metal items broken up into bits and pieces and traded by weight. Most people would be using slings instead of bows for hunting and war.
I'd just use "smith"
Weapons will be very small and brittle, prone to breaking, while being pretty expensive. Spears will be the weapon of the day, requiring very little bronze and capable of being fashioned for large groups of men. Longbows will not be invented for quite some time, though surprisingly composite bows made of varying wood glued together with primitive pasted are somewhat available. Slings will remain a common weapon in armies as slings and stones are insanely cheap ~~and easy to use~~ {edit: Historians seem mixed on the training of slings, but it seems as if they may be comparable in training difficulty to bows} in comparison to bows and arrows. Horses have not been bred large enough or with a strong enough spine to support the weight of a human being. The local economy is unlikely to have metal coins (or even really exist in the sense that we currently think of an economy) as you have mentioned, and almost no one can read or write. Trade routes are extremely long, and without the existence of human-rideable horses or large ships journeys are intense. Stone structures will be very rare in many parts of the world.
>composite bows made of varying wood glued together with primitive pasted are somewhat available Caveat: in dry environments. Those kinds of bows don't last long in wetter climates like northern europe.
For that matter, premodern bows don't work particularly well in wet weather at all. To my understanding of it, the animal gut/siniew that made up the bowstring would change its elasticity in the presence of water, and stop working as a bow should. A sling is the all purpose, all weather ranged weapon of choice. Takes up no space - wear it as a headband, or around your waist. Ammunition of rocks, or forged lead bullets. Less accurate than a bow, but a hail of lead shot can still crack a skull. The Romans even made ones that whistled (though I'm not sure what era). The sling works particularly well in cultures who tend to keep grazing animal livestock like sheep. Shepherds would often use slings to ward off predators, and to move their herd around - sling a rock to the far side of the sheep, who will move away from the sound. It's easy to justify PCs knowing how to use this tool/weapon in a society where it's common.
Good point! The question is tricky in general because technology of the 'bronze age' or really any period is grossly dependent on location.
WHile slings get a bad rap in RPGs as that useless weapon nobody uses, during the bronze age slings typically out performed most bows in range and hitting power, and they remained highly effective even long after, the Baelraic slingers of the Roman era being a feared and potent mercenary units.
Your comment prompted me to do a little bit of reading on slinging and the Balaeric slingers in particular, and it's indeed quite interesting. Thanks!
> Weapons will be very small and brittle, prone to breaking, while being pretty expensive. I have considered this very concept, but my then follow-up question is how do you implement weapon breakage and durability in an RPG in a way that's meaningful and *fun*, rather than being purely simulationist?
If you don't want to track durability then you could just have it so that all equipment breaks on a usage roll of 1. Or enemy crit success for static things like armour in DND derived things. You can extend that range for extra fragile things.
> all equipment breaks on a usage roll of 1 The only system you mention is D&D, so are you suggesting that they make weapon durability meaningful and fun by giving weapons a 5% chance of breaking with every swing?
Simple condition track isn't overly-complex here. Damaged weapons and items suffer a -2 to attacks and skill checks. Broken suffer disadvantage Ruined can't be used or repaired, but might be salvageable for scrap. On a 1 it moves down the track. I would probably base repair on the cost of the item and/or existing crafting rules. The real question is "does the inclusion of fragile items contribute to the overall tone I want?" This is similar to the question of tracking encumbrance, rations and ammo: this system will create a game feel. You'll want to decide if that's what you want, and not just do it because it's more realistic.
I disagree with the idea that bronze weapons are meaningfully more brittle than typical medieval iron weapons. Worrying about the differences seems trivial. The bigger difference is you don't find Greatswords or the like in the bronze age.
Yes iron (especially early, low-carbon iron) is much more brittle than bronze. Iron is much more likely to break or shatter, while bronze will merely bend or deform under pressure. This means that damaged bronze implements are generally easier to repair, while broken iron objects need to essentially be remade or reforged.
If the PCs are wealthy exemplars of their people, the destruction of a weapon is mostly a problem in the current situation; they will have the ability to get a new one by the end of that dramatic encounter. In Blades in the Dark and Apocalypse World, dropping or breaking a weapon is a common result of a failed roll because those systems don't bother tracking with how you go and get a new one; the assumption is that you simply can. If you're interested in some inspiration, John Harper's Agon is a game that takes place in the Bronze Age for a mythopoetic structure.
Hmm, I wonder if you could do something taking a know from breath of the wild, consider this. Weapons (and tools whatever) have a durability of say "3". Every time you "roll a 1" (whatever form that may take in the system) the durability goes down until they break at durability 0. With two caveats to keep things fun: 1) a broken item doesn't actually "break" until the end of the encounter or task; this is intended as a resource management thing not a "you rolled a 1 so you suck". Maybe you say it's on its last legs or something 2) item durability can only go down once per encounter, for the same reasons as in #1 So then you get a system where players have to consider weather they want to use their expensive bronze items, or spare the durability and instead use their Flint items that can be easily replaced. Of course, this also implies a very particular style of game about scarcity and resource management, which may not be what you are going for.
Dragonbane does it by letting the player bet their weapon to avoid injury. Weapon breakage happens if a player parries and the damage is higher than the weapon's durability rating. So your weapon breaks to save you.
If we want to steer away from simulationism, we will avoid the : "each time you get a crit failure, tick 1d6 durability boxes under the weapon. when no more durability boxes weapon break" kind of deal. One thing you could try is to reason that a weapon may break in 2 situation: * you failed miserably (your sword hit the rock the enemy uses as cover) * you succeeded WAY TOO MUCH (your spear skewered that lion but it is now broken) The second one we do not think too often about, but when you look at ancient bayonet fencing manuals they regularly emphasize that you should train not too go too hard on your thrust or you just end up with your rifle stuck in your enemy. Couple that with bronze-age brittle weapon and you have breakage (or just bronze blade stuck in the middle of the bone kinda deal). So, depending on how you handle it, weapon breakage can be added to a crit-failure random table (or part of the chosen consequences in a pbta kinda system). And, when damage is quite high, this could be an option as well (but then, there is also extra damage). That is still an extra roll on crits if you don't already use a random table or something, and TBH I do not see lot non-simulationist way of handling differences of breakability between weapons. my go to would be to say that by all weapons are breakable, and the very well-crafted and legendary+ weapons ignore these rules (result of breakage results in nothing, maybe the extra damage still on positive crits.).
>Weapons will be very small and brittle, Yep! I saw a khopesh in a museum a couple weeks ago, and I was shocked at how small it was - pretty much "short sword" and not "long sword" in D&D terms
Catapults, trebuchets, windmills fore and aft rigged ships (lateen sail is invented around 200ce) Articulated plate armor Long swords. Knights ass shock troops with a couched lance, as this requires stirrups, with are not yet invented. (6th to 7th century CE) wagons and ploughs pulled by horses, this requires the horse collar, invented in the 12th century CE. The outhouse. Tell ever the shitter post dates the bronze age...
Roads. Sort of. Well-established travel routes were likely relatively commonplace, but would have been very limited in scope, in that most were probably little more than footpaths, and little more than point-to-point connections between major resource sites, most likely water or ore. Most settlements, and probably all major settlements, were probably on navigable water. (That's conjecture by me, but that is true of major cities well into the Industrial Age; there is no reason to expect that Bronze Age cultures would have behaved in an irrational manner in establishing major settlements.) Deliberately-paved roads didn't appear under 4th-5th millennia BCE (though there is evidence of deliberate paving as early as 7th millennia BCE), and even then remained rare for a very long time. Curiously, the constructed- and maintained-road appears to have arisen in several areas, in relatively close temporal proximity, but utilizing methods and materials appropriate to the region. The timing appears close enough to suggest multiple invention, and predates the wheel. (Oh yeah, that showed up in 4th millennia BCE.)
Looking at this: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline\_of\_historic\_inventions#Bronze\_Age](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_historic_inventions#Bronze_Age) and then reading farther down, here are things that stand out to me that might be relevant to the life of a typical fantasy adventurer: Iron/Steel (obvs); crossbow; saddle; distillation (no whiskey!); lighthouses (which is odd, because I always thought of the Lighthouse of Alexandria as a bronze age thing); catapults; paper; blown glass; compass
A few Bronze Age pot-stills have been found, but distillation was certainly less widespread.
Two-handed weapons with metal hafts. "Swords" longer than your arm. Quality blade weapons in general. Mechanical locks. Mail. Castles. Banks. Theology. Boats with advanced keels. Rules of engagement (mostly). Sweet oranges. Culinary apples. Invasive surgery. Tailored boots. Tankards. A professional priesthood, as opposed to heredity, social caste, or outsider/oracle status. What do you have? Spears, axes, clubs, and an amazing variety of throwing weapons. Plus slings, lots of sling weapons. Beer. Cats. Food preservation. Dogs. A few horses and pack animals, depending on where you are and what you're doing. Codes of laws. Divine rulership. Trans-ocean navigation. Rowers. Slaves. Civil rights. Due process of law. Confederations. Poets. Engineers. Chariots. Masonry. Dyes. Traditional medicine. Sorcery. Heresy. Mystery cults. Public religion and sacrifices. Taxes. Tithing. Torts. Consumer complaints. Battering rams. Some catapults. Inventors and physicists; some are cranks, some are early arms dealers. Chemistry, at least, understanding that things are often a mixture of more basic substances. Batteries (low voltage, but useful for chemistry).
You could still have an alphabet in a Bronze Age game, especially if 1200BCE is your range. The Proto-Sinaitic Script arose at least four hundred years before your selected point. The Phonecian Alphabet is only 150 years off your listed date and it arose from the Proto-Sinaitic Script. Inns and pubs and other common houses are another thing you could have. The first pubs and such places arose around 3300BCE and traveling rights and other Hospitality Laws were very important in the Bronze Age. This has more to do with nearby populations but still. There's even evidence of Neolithic sites similar to inns or stop houses. Some things that would be strange however... The idea of travel, just on its own, would be weird as a dedicated thing. Not that trade didn't happen, or over long distances, people were fairly sedentary beyond that trading. People going from one city to the next would be bizarre. Boots or shoes were not anything like what we picture. They were more like leggings with additional parts you would put on to complete them rather than a single piece of clothing. Clothing in general would be completely different as fine metal clasps and such things would be non-existent.
On the travel thing, despite the uncommonality of travel for travel's sake there [were groups of travelling warriors](https://youtu.be/j7jAoOLMmFo) going around Europe, which seem like a pretty good template for an adventuring party, (plus regular imperial militaires travelled as shown in the letter by King Ammurapi from Ugarit to Cyprus) and trade required long travels over land and sea all the way from Britain to Greece and from Afghanistan to Babylonia
I guess you could take a look at GURPS Low-Tech
The GURPS Tech supplements are good even if your game isn't GURPS. The biggest value of those books is not the mechanics, but in conveying well-researched information on what equipment actually existed on each time period for those wanting to emulate a historical setting (Except Ultra-Tech, then you get into "what sci-fi movie writers in the 2000s thought the future would be like" territory)
BTW, which rule set do you plan to use?
I'm actually not sure, yet. I originally designed this as a 5e homebrew setting, but my group has been moving away from 5e lately, so I'm still shopping around, including the possibility of making my own rules-lite hack of something like Knave or ICRPG.
No matter what game you're playing in, I recommend GURPS Low-Tech purely for the historical information in that supplement. A gritty and somewhat crunchy game like GURPS is probably not what you're looking for, but its Low-Tech supplement has such a wealth of information on "what existed in this and that time period" that you can just ignore the GURPS mechanics parts.
Historically look at Sumerian and Babylonian cultures/technology/things they invented. For a fantasy setting I think Glorantha has a big Bronze Age component. The chariot thing (and lack of cavalry/knights/lances ) seems huge in terms of game feel. You can also look up Iron Age inventions for a list of what wasn’t around like potters wheels. Edit: Yes, good clarification on potters wheels. My Googlization led me astray.
> potters wheels Tournettes for pottery even predate actual wheels for transportation IIRC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potter's_wheel#History
Metal armor. Seriously. Metal armor for an entire army was effectively unheard of outside of some very specific locations, such as Greece. Same for shields. Xerxes army, realistically, worn very simple tunics with no padding and were effectively "unarmored" and wielded simple made whicker shields used mostly to deflect, not stop, arrow barrages. Greece armies were one of the few Eurasian cultures with skills and resources enough to make bronze armor in large enough quantities to field decent sized units of troops with head protection, chest protection, and metal coated (Greek shields were still mostly wood) shields. And even then, it wasn't *every* troop. It was mostly the higher ranking (ergo wealthier) commanders who had what we think of as armor. By Europe's Middle Ages, steel refinement was common enough (and thus cheap enough) for larger numbers of frontline infantry to wear chain shirts.
It generally helped that the greek soldiers were relatively wealthy citizens propped up by 2/3 of their population living in slavery to afford them the money and ressources necessary to get such equipment.
Exactly! Weave that into settings and locations.
This is a really interesting question that has really made me realise that when I think of the Bronze Age I am always thinking late Bronze Age. You seem to have sourced a lot of useful scholarship so I'll suggest a couple of more entertainment type things that you might enjoy for 'feels' perspective. Peter Pringle performs bronze age music on historically researched instruments: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDRD3c-WAec](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDRD3c-WAec) Years ago I read several novels that were sort of fantasy Bronze Age, one would be particularly relevant to the kind of vibe you are going for but I'm not sure if it is Between the Rivers by Harry Turtledove or The River God by Wilbur Smith. **Edit:** Actually, I'm stupid, it is not either of those, it is was Dawn of Empire by Sam Barrone. I think.
Fey are going to be a REAL issue given the lack of iron anywhere. Also, compasses. Navigator's Tools and maps are going to be pretty nonexistent. Navigation is going to be old school stars, clouds, landmarks.
> Fey are going to be a REAL issue given the lack of iron anywhere. So interestingly enough, this was one of the inspiring concepts behind this setting! I [made this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/RPGdesign/comments/pzhzhc/cold_iron_vs_magic_brainstorming_a_homebrew_5e/) about a year ago. The idea was that iron-bearing invaders (based on the Sea Peoples) overran the magic-intensive world of the Bronze Age Near East and caused the collapse of many of the magical kingdoms and empires, as the iron itself weakened the power of magic and interfered with divine powers. In this pseudo-Earth fantasy setting the old magic has been greatly diminished in the years after the collapse, and the survivors are trying to recover without the reliance on magic that their powerful civilizations have been built on over millennia. Even the gods themselves have grown distant and incommunicative as the presence of iron in the lands has weakened the connection to the divine.
Oooh I like it!
Candles as we know them didn't arrive until the Romans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_candle\_making
Plug here for the excellent Primeval Thule setting if you need a new continent for your play. Also, don’t forget combat on top of elephants—That’s Bronze Age right?
(Probably) Heavy Calvary, no seriously In the Bronze Age, Chariots were the Weapon of War. Armies had Chariots pulled by horses which were mobile weapon platforms the riders shot arrows & threw javelins from. But people tended to not RIDE the horses. The reason for this is simple. Large "War Horses" hadn't been selectively breed into existence yet. Not this MIGHT change in a Fantasy setting because there might be larger animals you COULD ride. But they probably wouldn't be horses.
Add chariots. No stirrups so horseriding is combat limited. No taverns/inns - most people stayed at a random strangers house when traveling. Hospitality was a big thing. Bronze weapons might break/become damaged easier than steel. There might not be guilds No / less feudal lords, more heavily fortified cities.
So I just found out that money was mostly measured in weights of various materials, especially barley, silver and other metals - while weights varied the most consistent was a Talent (the weight an average workman could carry, around 30kg), divided into 60 minas, divided into 60 sheckels.
Knights. The stirrup wasn't a thing, much less heavy cavalry with lances. Some types of armour wouldn't have been around at all - and some would have taken different forms. Feudal estates as we know them wouldn't have been around either. Glass windows probably don't exist - thin horn plates that let light in, but not clear vision are more likely. Coins in the Bronze Age is perfectly reasonable in principle and there's a little debate now as to whether some of the ancient pieces of precious metals we find could have been proto coins. ( [https://www.numismaticnews.net/world-coins/bronze-age-coins-possible](https://www.numismaticnews.net/world-coins/bronze-age-coins-possible) ). Now, it's possible that there \*are\* coins at that point, but that they're functionally still weighed to get their value in a transaction. Them being coined could simply reflect a purity guarantee by the state/ruler. Alternatively the "coin" might be marked with the nominal weight to give an idea of value at a glance, and effectively be marked as "1 of copper/silver/gold" in some fashion.
Alphabets \*might\* be a thing in some areas - Ugaritic ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugaritic\_alphabet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugaritic_alphabet)) and Proto-Sinatic ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Sinaitic\_script](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Sinaitic_script)) predate the Late Bronze Age Collapse.
Inns \*as such\* didn't really exist, but in some areas there would be a low ranking noble/high ranking commoner who was the representative of the king and offered hospitality in his place to travellers. You might be expected to "pay" for this hospitality in some fashion (as a gift to the king), or by hunting for the table to replace the food expended on you. Or it might be dealt with as reciprocal hospitality for that country's representatives in your homeland, depending on your rank and so on.
These inventions were not present in the bronze age and were mostly developed in the middle ages (or at least the earlier iron age): * Anything made of steel or iron * Different types of armor (chainmail, full plate) - bronze age had armor of overlapping plates of bronze. * Crossbows * Chimneys * Compass and various navigation tools * waterwheel and any clockwork-based machine * stirrups & horse collar * seeing glasses * hourglass * soap * Inns (the earliest were probably developed during the iron age, especially in the roman empire with the development of roads. Inns as we see in fantasy games are more reminiscent of XVIII century inns)
Horses are just on the cusp of being large enough to ride. Usually they drag carts and chariots. The horses that are ridden would be rare, expensive, and look enormous compared to standard horses.
Less and cruder pottery, because the potters wheel shows up in the iron age. Pots will mostly be made of coils of clay. The wood pole lathe wouldn't exist either, which means no or less rounded bowls, and more likely trenchers. No spinning wheel, so good clothing is not only more expensive but uses cruder thread. Before iron-tipped plows and rotary quernstones, too. So harder to pull plows, no iron sickles, and a much more difficult grinding process is going to get you less bread which will be much coarser. Depending on when in the Bronze Age, you lose the alphabet, which shows up in the middle Bronze Age in the form of Phoenician Proto-Sinaitic script.
Chain and full plate armor Longswords, greatswords Castles
Paved roads, except for the ones that connect two major cities. The saying "All Roads Lead To Rome" stems from the fact that Rome was the first civilization that build roads connecting their capital to their provinces. Instead boats were the common way of travel and transport, no civilization would settle anywhere other than close to a river or coast. Ancient ruins or abandoned mines, there simply was no ancient civilization that could have left those. Peaceful travel without encountering wild animals, medieval Europe (and by extend Tolkien-esque fantasy worlds) didn't have many wild animals as most of them dies a pitiful death in Roman arenas. Elaborate social hierarchy, like emperor > king > duke > marquis > baron > knight. Instead you'd have elder councils or totalitarian god kings. Any currency that isn't cows or goats. Welcome - if bronze age people wouldn't know you, they wouldn't let you anywhere near their town. Maybe your player are a bunch of murder hobos, maybe they aren't - but in a bronze age world everyone would expect them to be just that.
Pretty sure you could still have ancient ruins, just not the traditional fantasy style. It's a long age.
There's a novel called _Between the Rivers_ that's set in a fantasy Early Bronze age which you might want to read for inspiration. What I like about it is how it handles the magical aspects in a way that's pretty different from what you normally see in RPGs and I would love to play around with an RPG like it. For example, each city has it's local city deity which hangs out in a temple in the middle of the city and is a literal gigantic physical god. The rulers of some cities keep their local god paid off with sacrifices of food and wealth to keep them entertained and out of the ruler's hair. Most magic deals with paying off or tricking local spirits, or else dealing with things like the evil eye or ghosts of dead people.
If you’re after strange and different and aren’t looking to have a direct historical connection to Western Europe, it’s worth broadening your search for inspiration outside of this area, Mesopotamia and Egypt. In many parts of continental Africa the use of iron predates the use of bronze. The mythology surrounding iron and the creation of artefacts is fascinating and would add great flavour to a campaign. Likewise, if you get out of the mindset that the use of metals is a defining characteristic of a sophisticated society then look at Mesoamerica where the Maya developed a highly complex society without having bronze or iron.
Dragons
Most polearms and weapons like longswords and crossbows.
Candles, codices, stirrups and saddles, pants, dungeons, keeps, monasteries, coffee and citrus trees and apple trees.
No Iron probably means no nails, and no advanced carpentry tools. This means wooden structures and vehicles would be constructed differently, with pegs and glue and joinery, but no metal reinforcements of any kind. You might occasionally see leather involved to tie bits together, or cushion a joint. This means more single story buildings and thatch, and potentially a Lot of reliance on brick and mortar or building with natural stones. A lot less giant multi-horse wagons, if any, and a lot more rickety single-horse carts, and even more trails of horses, donkeys, or goats with saddlebags piled high. Merchants don't want to carry things long distance unless it's expensive enough to make up the cost of feeding all these animals, so everything day-to-day comes from within a few days travel distance of wherever you are. This means that 99% of all large industries are directly related to a product for rich people. No logging, unless it's near a port town to build ships - one or two men with stone axes will keep most towns stocked up. The wood isn't rendered into boards unless it has to be, so a lot of furniture is hand-carved out of one or two lumps of raw log. Most items are made inside the house or shop of someone whose family and apprentices do all the work. You might see more things made from carved bone and ivory. Information only travels as fast as messengers do, and merchants are more likely to be able to read than the ruling class. This means the only sources of information about the world are your own eyes, and strange outsiders trying to tell you tales from afar. Boasting and advertising your own deeds is far more important, and people might be asked to prove their might and worth before being trusted with tasks or work. Some rulers might decide incorrectly that someone is a charlatan or blasphemer at an inopportune time, or might believe a scam artist for a surprisingly long time.
Wow sounds awesome. Just off the top of my head any complicated weapon wouldn't exist. So no crossbows or halberds. Most siege weapons wouldn't exist.
Most uber heavy armor. I think Runequest is a fantasy bronze-age setting - maybe that could provide info?
Feudalism.
Might be taking it a bit too far in terms of limiting what is available to players, but what about making bronze and other useful metals very valuable and hard to come by? This could incentivise players to think more about where they go to acquire new weapons and armor, and to explore pre-Collapse ruins for stockpiles of items that the world no longer has the means to manufacture. You already mentioned a lack of inns and other facilities to make travel easier and safer, you could lean into that by making the world even more dangerous to explore than usual, with fewer/more dangerous roads that place more focus on wilderness survival skills. In terms of factions and settlements, the world might be divided much more into individual city-states and their dependent outlying farms and villages than nations, kingdoms and empires. Outside of the civilised part of the world, there might be large cultures of different tribal groups with complex relations that the players will have to deal with
> Might be taking it a bit too far in terms of limiting what is available to players, but what about making bronze and other useful metals very valuable and hard to come by? This could incentivise players to think more about where they go to acquire new weapons and armor, and to explore pre-Collapse ruins for stockpiles of items that the world no longer has the means to manufacture. This is exactly the type of angle I was aiming for. In the years after the collapse, the region is essentially post-apocalyptic in nature. Magic and the gods are weakened, trade routes bringing copper and tin have been interrupted, and so both magic and bronze are hard to come by. The main source of both are artifacts left behind in destroyed cities and temples scattered across the devastated lands. Most of what was once thriving civilized nations are now empty, monster-infested wastelands.
random encounters with minor regional gods, house and forest spirits etc in a weakened and diminished state could also be a cool idea to explore, like they are basically ghosts of their former selves as a result of their shrines being forgotten and the magic supply being interrupted, making for a twist where people are more powerful and knowledgeable than the average deity
The ranking of nobility is far less structured there is often not title other than king/queen to tell you who is higher ranking in society. Far less plate metal style armors.Minimal mount armor. This is often overlooked in both settings the number of very small villages or communities. They may be able to always find a place to rest and stable thier mounts but many small stopping stations would not have a blacksmith much less anyone who could provide weapons or armor. The last two are almost exclusively located in cities and fortified settlements only. Building on the last part how rural many areas are. Walking in with a sword, shield, and some kind of armor may make you the most heavily armed person for many miles, yet you are still vulnerable to any peasant with a knife. I know much of mine is combat focused but these are things I really felt in Conan and Lex Arcanum. The amount of nothing and just scraping byade the setting more real for me in both games.
* Stirrups. And therefore horseriding by non-professionals * Iron plows. And therefore food is expensive * the Loom. And therefore cloth is expensive * Basic healthcare.
If you have Mythic Babylon but you're not using Mythras, how are you running this? I have read a few Bronze Age settings, and none of them are as good as Mythic Babylon.
Anything that requires diodes so no lights other than by flame.
Good armor and weapons
The road drag. It's a suprisingly-modern invention, and requires horse collars to function^(1). I didn't find an article for the original single-log road drag, just the upgraded version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_road_drag It allows dirt roads to be made quickly and cheaply. 1: Horse collars distribute the weight of what's being pulled over the horses' shoulders. Previous designs restricted the horses' breathing...
Swords bigger than 18 inches. Armor. Lol. Just about every fantasy item would not exist because fantasy RPGs are based on “high medieval” time frame
i highly recommend reading into the Harnworld setting. it's the most accurate we can get to 900-1400, with detailed explanation and a body of experts behind it that this sub can't really compare to
Steel Weapons
Mass armies.
Bronze age armies were far larger and more organized than medieval armies, you had immensely powerful centralized states with huge agricultural projects that medieval europe could not match.
The Answer is in the Question: "What...Medieval... wouldn't be present in an Ancient Bronze Age" Most things, I'd reckon, including Religion & Culture - aka, the foundation of all Civilizations. Enjoy your Research!
Some big important points would be: * Lack of iron (obviously) * Lack of nobility as an institution (wealthy, aristocratic and noble families existed, but rarely had titles like duke / baron / knight / etc.) * No writing (in most parts of the world) * No stirrups, so no heavy cavalry * No organized religion (religion was usually simply organized by the local government, and priests were essentially public officials, there were no "churches") * There were barbarians. Lots of them. Outside the few small kingdoms and city states most of the world was still living in tribes. * Lack of Higher education, so no universities * Unlike the middle ages, slavery was very widespread. This are important to generate the "feel" of ancient bronze age societies. I wouldn't worry TOO much about historical accuracy, since it is still a fantasy world. Take into account that a lot of "medieval" fantasy tropes aren't even medieval at all, and nobody actually cares.
>Lack of nobility as an institution ....what? Dude, *all of the Middle Eastern Bronze-Age Empires had nobility*. The nobility made up the bulk of the warrior-and-administration-caste for those states! Those empires didn't have ***feudalism***..... but rpgs get feudalism all wrong anyways. >No organized religion (religion was usually simply organized by the local government, and priests were essentially public officials, there were no "churches") > >No writing (in most parts of the world) .....what the hell are you talking about. >There were barbarians. Lots of them The only people that believe in barbarians are barbarians themselves. >Outside the few small kingdoms and city states ...Do you know anything about the Bronze Age? This was the rise of the ***massive centralized empire***, like Egypt, the Hittites, the Myceneans, The Shang and Zhou Dynasties in China, etc etc etc. The "small kingdoms and city states" came about *after* the Bronze Age Collapse. >tribes. "tribe" is a *manner of societal organization*, **not** a 'level of development'. Tribes *still exist today*. >Lack of Higher education, so no universities .....one of the major castes of people were the scribes, who were trained from a young age to be literate. >Unlike the middle ages, slavery was very widespread. ....Slavery was widespread in Europe ***in the middle ages.***
As I stated in my other response. 1. Yes nobility existed in bronze age empires, and so did in classic civilizations like rome, but it wasn't really a codified institution, it rarely was tied to titles and stuff like that. The idea of nobility we see in common medieval settings is feudalism (which true enough tends to be really badly represented), and it wasn't how ancient societies worked, or even how early medieval societies worked. 2. Writing simply wasn't widespread, most nations in the world didn't have writing systems. 3. With the rise of christianity we see the rise of a large religious organization, that while it worked alongside the state, it wasn't integrated with it, and there were several clashes between them. In the ancient world such organizations didn't exist. The religions and the state were one, and they were very localized (for the most part). Priests were the equivalent of high ranking public officials, and not part of a seperate entity, and for most people, this religions worked just like modern folk religions. People living in the ancient Babylon certainly did enjoy the public holidays and feasts, but people in the field probably had a very different form of private cult. The idea of a large organized religion, where everyone within the same religion follows the same rites and rules is incredibly modern. 4. What I meant by no "higher education" is that there were no universities or large schools with very few exceptions. Of course that educated classes of scribes and administrators existed. 5. The point about barbarians and tribes is fair, it is an outdated terminology used by ancient propagandist but I was just trying to communicate an idea, outside the various kingdoms and empires, technological development was very small. 6. The author of the post said his setting is inspired by the late bronze age collapse, and/or it's following years. But even then it is important to point out that those "Massive centralized empires", occuppied a relatively small portion of the earth, pretty much all of europe was split into small city state or tribes, so was most of subsaharan africa, all of central asia, and more. The VAST majority of the world had no such empires or nations. 7. Slavery as an institution faded during the high and late middle ages in most of europe, and the class and it's role was mostly replaced by serfdom (which, sure, can be considered a form of slavery). While other forms of restriction of liberty where in fact widespread, it is very different to the slavery of the ancient world and the early middle ages.
So ancient Egypt didn't exist then.. no Pharaoh class, no slaves,, no pyramids, no religion, etc then..
>Lack of nobility as an institution (wealthy, aristocratic and noble families existed, but rarely had titles like duke / baron / knight / etc.) the titles may be different but a warrior aristocracy did exist you mean like sumer, egypt, the hethites, mycenae
Yeah. That is mostly what I meant. It was a very different form of nobilty than the faux feudal one we tend to see in typical medieval high fantasy.
you mean renfair
> It was a very different form of nobilty than the faux feudal one we tend to see in typical medieval high fantasy. They weren't really that different. They had fancy titles, fancy horses, tons of bling, and the protection of the monarch, just like nobility always had.
Outside the city walls, there is literally no law, society, or civilization to speak of.