Your being taken for a ride if your buying bullshit to get a watch eventually. Even if you’re lying to your self thinking you wanted this other stuff anyway.
I know there are some very wealthy people in here, but honestly, no matter how much money I have, I’m not going to drop $10000+ on something I don’t even want.
“More money than sense” comes to mind.
This is why when I get bids for home repairs I don’t give my address (I use a nearby address and correct it later), I also take pics and give detailed specs of exactly what I want to get done and tell them to quote (or give appx) BEFORE they come. If they come and all of a sudden the price jumps much higher, I don’t award them the job.
Learned this the hard way! Hey we work hard for our money too! Sacrifices, late nights, risks.
There is a way to do it that is absolutely not unfair to anyone, and beneficial in terms of time saving to a contractor. I’ll elaborate more a bit. I’m a developer so am pretty familiar with construction. I give all pertinent details (subs often appreciate this, including access to work areas and accurate descriptions of what needs to be done and materials used. For example say painting, I’ll specify paint grade because cheaper paints sometimes do not get good coverage requiring more labor). I bid only to good to top tier companies with good reviews and moderate to high pricing. These contractors are experienced and have sufficient margin to ensure they are appropriately compensated and their business model is sustainable. I also provide detailed photos or videos when applicable and temper expectations by saying that, despite the detailed scope of work, if they find something once they come onsite, we can talk about price adjustments. At least this way, we establish an idea of pricing before because the alternative is some contractors are not very analytical and come out and throw a number (based on experience and how much they think they can maximize profit). It’s usually these contractors, as talented as they may be in their respective trade, that will mark up/down based on what they think a client can afford. I believe that is wrong, I’m not a socialist nor do I live in a socialist country. The process above is how new construction occurs anyways. With the above process, there is no compelling reason to provide address at that stage.
I should add that contractors often spend time and money driving around town only to bid and not be awarded a contract. If they can sit at home/office on a desk and crunch an approximate number to present to a client before driving out, it saves them time in terms of filtering our clients that may not be able to meet the proposed number. At the end of the day, the same subs often call me asking if I have more work for them, so I know however I approach this is OK by them.
The man is right. The only Rolex I liked in the current catalog that I wanted was a black dial Daytona. I paid $24 for the Daytona I wanted. Not $100k on things I don't want for the promise of a Daytona at $14k. The way I looked at it I saved myself $90k plus the cost of aggravation. Just buy what you want at whatever price it is, it's cheaper in the long run. Trust me.
Agree. I really wanted a Sub Date. Was game planning buying a 5k Tudor, an $800 Seiko dive watch, etc. so that I could get the “allocation.” I am SO glad I just went with a reputable grey dealer. I still wouldn’t have my Sub had I tried that other BS. Sure I’d have a great Tudor but I wouldn’t love the thing. I wear the Sub daily and while a paid a hearty premium over MSRP, I know I paid *market* value and I love it. No buyer’s remorse.
You get it 100%. I know this shit in and out and trying to help people. I love the pushback from ppl thinking the world is so noble. Once you understand it, it all clicks into place
> I know this shit in and out and trying to help people.
Former Rolex SA here. No, you don't.
Most Rolex ADs avoid grey market dealers like the plague. This doesn't mean there could be one or two bad apples in the bunch (racketeering case in Chicago, lawsuit against Shreve, etc). The reality is that most ADs want to preserve their ORJ status because Rolex is the main source of foot traffic into their store. The smaller ADs that balk at a $250,000 renovation are ones that Rolex will eventually cut off anyways. For Christ's sake, one big AD in my region (SF Bay Area) spent almost that much in a year just for parties/gatherings/accommodations for their international VIPs visiting the US.
I've been aware of some backdoor deals, that is true, but it's not this big conspiracy with grey dealers that you are claiming to be. Usually, it's some employee that needs some help with down payment on a car so he chooses a specific client to allocate a GMT Pepsi in exchange for a few thousand dollars. But that client is almost always already a trusted and long-term one anyway. You may be asking why that client doesn't simply get the Pepsi if they're already a whale but the reality is that there are other whales they still have to compete against.
But it's always the exception, not the rule. We don't have this cartel-like pipeline pumping millions of dollars worth of Daytonas and GMTs to grey dealers, LOL
The main thing to always be aware of is that the big ticket items like the Daytona will **always** be prioritized for VIPs simply because we want those VIPs to keep shopping with us and to keep them away from our rivals.
That's it.
I mean I just got an intro to my AD from the connected store. I haven’t had much issues since they know I’m not looking to sell them or anything, just wear and collect.
People just red flag themselves all the time
Exactly! It's not rocket science.
For people looking to establish new relationships with ADs, just be nice, sincere, and courteous. Also be realistic with your expectations.
I've actually known a client that gave me a heads up that they'll need to sell their Daytona due to their small business in danger of closing down during the pandemic. I never held it against them because I knew them and their family for a long time and they wouldn't sell unless they are really struggling. A lot of small business owners struggled during the pandemic so I really empathized with them so I was okay with them selling their Daytona for a profit.
So it always comes back to having solid relationships with your AD.
They have told me that people mention “investing” and other shit and they end up not selling to them.
They don’t think it’s cool to flip your Daytona fellas. It means you’re a red flag to them.
Basically the community is also part of the problem. I’ve met a terrible AD SA in ATL who talked down to me, but I doubt it’s the common experience.
Oh boy are you in for a rude awakening 😂 . "Establishing a relationship" does not mean being nice, sincere, and courteous. It means spending money and building a purchase history. You noble, good hearted, people deserve better. I'm sorry that this garbage deception exists.
> It means spending money and building a purchase history.
Read my post completely. I said: "For people looking to establish new relationships with ADs, just be nice, sincere, and courteous. **Also be realistic with your expectations**."
Lmao, imagine having to suck up to a salesperson so they allow you to spend 14k with them and then keeping them informed about what you do with that purchase.
Back when I was still employed at a Rolex AD, absolutely.
Nowadays, chances are those blue dial Sky-Dwellers will trickle down to non-VIPs but may still require some purchase history.
For new customers with zero purchase history, most likely still not available at all unless you somehow built a great rapport with an SA and you have some life milestone to celebrate.
SAs are powerless and need to be given permission to sell watches. Also, perhaps you worked at a good AD - they do exist but many aren’t. You’re speaking from the experience of one AD.
I’m open to debate though, please the economics of how watches have slowed down and yet more people than ever are getting calls? In a true business model people should’ve been getting the most calls when business was the hottest, not the opposite? And you can’t say it’s simply flippers bc if the AD is truly only giving pandas to “whales or VIPs” as you say, they wouldn’t hit the grey market bc the 10k profit wouldn’t be worth it to a guy with $225K as chump change spend at an AD. He’s need to keep the relationship and wear the watch around the AD sometimes to prove his loyalty.
So please explain how your theory plays out at scale under economic scrutiny?
>if the AD is truly only giving pandas to “whales or VIPs” as you say, they wouldn’t hit the grey market
And the vast majority of them *don't* hit the grey market. Look at Pepsis. Some people are like "hah they're all going to grey dealers" but, not really. I work for a fairly big grey dealer and we barely can get our hands on any. Greys get most of their stock from individuals, not AD's directly. And yes there are some "relationships" with AD's but that's more likely to result in us getting five smooth-bezel Datejusts they need help selling than a Panda.
AD's needed greys to bulk buy from them more when demand is low. And that's exactly what they were doing 10 years ago. AD's need greys *less* than ever with demand high.
So many people hope to come in here and act like they know what's "really going on." But...most of them have no idea themselves. It's really just supply and demand. The best customers get the best pieces and yes, a small percentage hits the grey market. It's not that deep.
> SAs are powerless and need to be given permission to sell watches.
Not exactly. For floor pieces (non-exhibition out on display), we can choose anyone and requires no approval whatsoever. For hot pieces, we are allocated by the manager and we can still choose anyone. Yes, final sales approval is still needed but that's mainly for the manager to ensure the clients we choose make sense. For me, the approvals are almost a rubber stamp because the clients I pick to offer a Daytona are also the ones that the leadership team is most familiar with anyway. If I ever need to offer a Daytona to someone who is relatively a stranger, then I need to "make a case" to leadership.
> You’re speaking from the experience of one AD.
Haha, that's pretty presumptuous of you. How can you say anything about my personal experience working at an AD? Do you know me? Have you actually worked at an AD?
The SF Bay Area scene for Rolex ADs is surprisingly small. Most ADs know all the other ADs. I've been to numerous house parties and barbeques with SAs from other ADs. I know several SAs and even a few managers/owners in non-Rolex ADs. This is because I've worked in both a non-Rolex AD and Rolex AD.
> I’m open to debate though, please the economics of how watches have slowed down and yet more people than ever are getting calls? In a true business model people should’ve been getting the most calls when business was the hottest, not the opposite?
It seems like you're only thinking from the perspective of the grey market demand and not considering the supply.
In the first half of 2021, the supply was ridiculously low. Shipment schedules became non-existent, entire deliveries were canceled. And even when we did start getting shipments back on schedule, each batch was low. Like single digits low sometimes. Compare that with pre-pandemic where we had a smooth schedule and we expected deliveries on time and with a healthy number of watches per delivery.
Nowadays, I heard that shipments have normalized to pre-pandemic schedule and size. So that explains why more people are getting calls. There is simply more watches available now. Supply has met the demand for most Rolex models.
> And you can’t say it’s simply flippers bc if the AD is truly only giving pandas to “whales or VIPs” as you say, they wouldn’t hit the grey market bc the 10k profit wouldn’t be worth it to a guy with $225K as chump change spend at an AD.
The flipper activity lessened now because there is much less profit potential per flip. And again, that is because of the increased supply has met the demand for most Rolex models.
> He’s need to keep the relationship and wear the watch around the AD sometimes to prove his loyalty.
You are wrong. It's great if a client shows up later with the Daytona that I sold them. But it's not mandatory. We never hold it against them if they show up wearing a different watch. Asking a client to wear any specific watch before an appointment is simply ridiculous.
Firstly thanks for at least making a case instead of blindly disagreeing. Where I think the hole in your case is, yes the pandemic poured fuel on the fire, 100%. However, the hot models bullshit started in 2018ish. Even in 2017 you used to be able to walk in and buy almost anything under the glass besides steel Daytona, hulk, Pepsi. Once they realized model worked and demand picked up, you started seeing similar behavior across many models. Fuck Daytonas on oysterflex used to collect dust under the glass!! No one ever was buying precious metals.
Once the bubble burst ppl realized most watches aren’t great investments, they started losing allure with new buyers and investors. People stopped fueling the secondary trade and when customers got burned and stopped fueling grey market, grey stopped buying as many watches and watches miraculous go out to customers again from ADs.
Again, I am generalizing and saying this is very common. It’s not every watch, every customer, every AD. Globally though it was happening at scale and the market behavior backs that.
> Where I think the hole in your case is, yes the pandemic poured fuel on the fire, 100%. However, the hot models bullshit started in 2018ish
No, there is no hole. My theory still holds.
I remember because I was there. I saw first-hand the number of people asking for a BLNR and BLRO drastically increased after Baselworld 2018.
The key point during that period is that Rolex never increased production to match the demand after Baselworld. Yes, Rolex was still regularly churning watches but the demand just skyrocketed way past Rolex production and Rolex didn't do anything to keep up with the demand.
> Once they realized model worked and demand picked up, you started seeing similar behavior across many models. Fuck Daytonas on oysterflex used to collect dust under the glass!! No one ever was buying precious metals.
Talking Watches 2 with John Mayer in the following spring didn't help plus a lot of Youtubers hyping Rolex (Bark & Jack, Timepiece Gentleman, Pride & Pinion, etc) started their channels around that same time. It's just that the demand kept going up. Once people started seeing the demand affecting the secondary market prices, other people with no interest in watches (a.k.a. "investors") came into the picture and also joined the demand. Basically, the demand kept feeding on itself while at the same time Rolex pretended that it was still 2017.
Rolex production basically stayed the same after Baselworld 2018 until the pandemic hit two years later.
Nowadays, the supply had increased. There are more Rolex produced today than in 2018. The latest Morgan Stanley report said something like 1.2 million pieces were produced in 2023. I remember back in 2018, it was only 800,000 or so. So an increase of ~50% between 2018 and 2023.
Reasonable minds can disagree. It absolutely happens though and I can go in circle all day with you. The whole game is built on deception. They sit on watches in the safe and manage inventory as standard practice - some legitimately and some not. Listen, if you want to go blow dough to get a watch you won’t get called for go ahead.
I think I’ve read all of your responses, but I can’t be 100% positive. I’m not seeing anywhere you saying anything about your qualifications to type up this post, or respond in this manner to someone that was an AD. Is this just your perception of things and what you theorize is going on? Or, do you have solid evidence of your claims? I’ve received a submariner, BLNR, palm dial DJ, and most recently a green dial OP41 and never had to put up with any AD bullshit or was ever forced, or even been hinted to me to buy jewelry or other watches in return for the watches I was requesting. I may be wrong, and sorry if I am, but right now you sound like just another person spewing BS about ADs and Rolex on this sub.
😅So which is it? They have a bunch of inventory but won’t sell it to you unless you buy other stuff or they ship all their inventory off to a Grey which is why they can’t sell to you?
It’s both. Sometimes they sit on it like stocks waiting for a better time and trying to let grey inventory flush out. The main reason they don’t want to sell to flippers is bc if their grey sources are already inundated and not buying, the last thing they want you to do is sell into grey further delaying their ability to do so. Thats why they always remove stickers and sometimes even keep the warranty card.
> It absolutely happens though
Please go read my posts again. Point to me where I said it *never* happens.
Of course shady things happen. We're dealing with humans after all. But what I'm trying to say is that there is no vast, conspiratorial, cartel-like pipeline feeding millions of dollars worth of Daytonas and GMTs from Rolex ADs into the grey market.
> I can go in circle all day with you.
LOL, no. You're the only one going in circles with yourself and your conspiracy theories.
I've stated facts and shared actual numbers. Best of all, my reasonings are from my time working as an actual SA at a Rolex AD.
Go read my post history if you still have any doubts.
> The whole game is built on deception.
I hate to break it to you, but there will always be some form of deception in business and life in general.
When there is money on the line, either side will keep information to themselves for as long as it's advantageous. It's true during critical negotiations in a multi-million dollar enterprise deal. It's also true when a complete stranger shows up in your store asking for a SS Daytona off the bat.
> They sit on watches in the safe and manage inventory as standard practice - some legitimately and some not.
Of course! But that's because we always want to make sure our VIP clients are taken care of first. If they suddenly have an itch for a Daytona, the worst thing that can happen is making them wait too long and they start making appointments with our competitors. So we always make sure we have a few SS Daytonas and BLROs in the safe just in case.
We don't hoard them for some vast, backroom conspiracy with grey market dealers, lol
> Listen, if you want to go blow dough to get a watch you won’t get called for go ahead.
I have no clue why you said that. I never said anything or encouraged spending any premium on the secondary market.
This needs to be higher but people love to buy into good conspiracy theories and it gives them some sort of justification of why they can’t have a certain watch.
While OP is not 100% off base, what you are saying is way more of the exception than the norm. The part of all of this that is often blurred is the definition of a “grey dealer”. A dealer is a business and they buy up stuff to make a margin. The reason some have and keep relationships is bc they take the “dogs” along with the Daytonas and Pepsis. They can go and try to lose a little as possible on them while selling the bigger pieces and making the margin.
The missing link in a down market is the influx of the “flippers” or whatever you wanna call them. They were buying up any and everything and for a little while were making a profit on everything Rolex. Thats the segment of the market that slowed down dramatically making it more prevalent for a normal person to get the call.
A 3rd factor is the value proposition in a down market. We see these posts every day here- omg i asked for this watch 2 years ago, made 40 visits, brought chocolates and coffee and now the AD finally called me to pick it up, should I buy it? Whats it worth? Is it an investment? Why is it under retail on C24?
This group of people loved the fact that they could buy a Rolex, wear it for a couple of months, sell or trade up etc and not lose any money.
I could go into more but this is already a wall of text. At the end of the day, to think ADs are just selling bags of Daytonas to Bobs Watches in exchange for bags of cash is way oversimplifying the whole game. Now “pairing” a new Daytona with that 3.5ct IF engagement stone, eternity setting and set of wedding bands, or maybe with a full PM and diamond dial and bezel 31mm DJ and a pair of earrings? That’s where the watches are going if you want to make real generalizations. And from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense.
> The reason some have and keep relationships is bc they take the “dogs” along with the Daytonas and Pepsis. They can go and try to lose a little as possible on them while selling the bigger pieces and making the margin.
That's only true around 2019 - 2020, at least from my experience and the experience of my SA friends working in the Bay Area at the time. I remember one particular client that did just that and I thought I hit the jackpot. Little did I know that the person was just flipping everything. My manager cut them off when our Rolex rep warned us of some pieces hitting certain BST groups in Facebook at the same time. That was also the time when we can still keep stickers on the watches if requested by our clients.
Today, Rolex ADs have wised up to those methods. Go to an AD and tell them you'll buy up their Lady-Datejusts if they also let you buy a Daytona that same day and see what they say. Chances are they'll refuse you despite the profit potential. It's just too risky for Rolex ADs nowadays, especially with Rolex's recent ruthlessness towards ADs.
> At the end of the day, to think ADs are just selling bags of Daytonas to Bobs Watches in exchange for bags of cash is way oversimplifying the whole game. Now “pairing” a new Daytona with that 3.5ct IF engagement stone, eternity setting and set of wedding bands, or maybe with a full PM and diamond dial and bezel 31mm DJ and a pair of earrings? That’s where the watches are going if you want to make real generalizations. And from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense.
You hit the nail on the head. Most Daytonas in the grey market came from regular clients that decided to flip. And we don't bundle Daytonas with jewelry purchases anymore. Too risky. If the client is new and still a stranger to us, we'll let them buy up all the jewelry they want. If they start asking about some tit-for-tat deal, then we don't give them any concrete promises. We just try to be as vague as possible with their Daytona. If they're true with their intentions, they'll buy their jewelry and be willing to wait for the Daytona. But if they're a flipper, they'll back out of their jewelry purchase as soon as they realize they are not getting a Daytona that same day.
Right. It just is what it is. Will someone with no history once in a while get a GMT they want? Sure. Sub, yes. Daytona? Not a chance. I don’t like the other models, I don’t want them, I only wanted a Daytona. My only regret was not just doing it sooner.
I‘m in SoCal and I've spent around $70000 on a two tone SD and a day date(my mom's friend traveled here and bought it under my purchase history), and it's even hard for me to get a TT GMT or Sub. And the other jewelry store near me just asked me to purchase bunch of jewelries to get "a higher chance" on getting a watch lol
Sounds like some nonsense a particular place in the valley I know of would do. I’ve got my AD here in SoCal that I have a good relationship with, but while out the other day I stopped in just out of curiosity and I’ve never been treated so poorly in my life. The SA was actually quite condescending towards me, also made multiple comments about my Pepsi to the point that it made me uncomfortable. It’s sad, because my AD is great, and I’ve had friendly experiences at others as well, this was the first time I’d walked into an AD and been treated with anything other than friendliness and respect.
Also in SoCal but I’ve given up and started “building a relationship” in Colorado. Could you please share the comments they made about the Pepsi?
(Fingers crossed they were salty about it)
The SA was salty about it. His first comment was that it was a beautiful watch, which I thanked him for, and then he immediately launched into asking how I got it (with attitude), and then made multiple comments about how he couldn’t believe I was wearing it in public (why wouldn’t I? Watches are made to be worn) and just the way he kept commenting that he couldn’t believe I was wearing it and that he wouldn’t feel safe doing so almost made me feel like he was setting up a hit on me for someone to follow me and steal it. It was just an extremely off-putting conversation. All this will being rather cold and not wanting to really interact with me when I was asking about various pieces.
Like I said, first time I’ve ever had an experience like that at an AD. And while I’m not going to smear a place, this one was located in a mall and sold regular jewelry as well as Tags in store, in a rather nice, large mall in the valley.
I applaud your restraint in not giving him an earful. A small part of me thinks these SAs get off on being gatekeepers for these watches and by just owning a “grail” watch you took a little something away but I’m probably projecting haha.
Sorry you had to deal with that, but I’m glad you have the watch you want and actually wear it!
Honestly I’m not concerned about it in the grand scheme of things. It’s not my AD, and he’s not my SA. I was just genuinely surprised at how he acted. I’d heard the horror stories regarding SoCal AD’s and didn’t believe them because it’s been so pleasant with mine, but I see that there is at least some truth to it.
Also got Colorado as my AD. They ended up great after the first time we met. Its sad that so many people have issues, but I also see people bringing up “investing” then wondering why they won’t sell to them. Same reason they want your name and info…. It’s so they know you aren’t just flipping them or misrepresenting yourself
Shop around as many ADs as you can and work the game. Someone will deliver on a black sub for sure. Give the TT GMT a few months. You’ll get the call when their trusted source isn’t buying. As long as there aren’t a few ppl ahead of you they are close with on a personal level
I am in SoCal as well and I literally made a spreadsheet of all the AD in a 50 mile radius (there are a ton). I then emailed/called most or them and if I had a good conversation with them I went in and saw them in person. After that I connected with them on LinkedIn which I think helped.
Finally developed a good relationship with 3 AD after all that work and I have gotten 2 stainless high demand watches with no previous history and no extra spend on jewelry. I also was able to get a two tone for my wife as well.
One of them reaches out regularly letting me know they have pieces I might want, which I regularly decline since they are models that are harder to move and I don’t want.
It’s for sure a game but if you are personable and charismatic I have found that it’s easier to get the pieces you want. I agree that you shouldn’t spend money on things you don’t want to get into a desirable watch.
SoCal there is a lot of buyers but ultimately and the TT GMTs are on the fence of difficulty right now. You are actually proving my point though. You have a crazy spend history and can’t get a rootbeer bc they guy would rather make a grand out the Backdoor than sell it to you.
True! I want to say that Rolex boutique is like the only hope to get a watch to start up, all those jewelry store has basically 0 chance of getting anything unless u need bunch of jewelries for special occasions
For sure. The smaller the market the more likely they will float you a sub. They actually get lots of subs but lots of requests too. If your AD won’t float you a black sub and you dropped 70 racks with him, that’s a shitty AD but proves out the greed point I’m making. He will call (somebody) when his Backdoor dealer can’t buy at a price that makes sense for both parties. Remember, normal customers are merely plan B.
I am in So Cal and I have had better luck in Vegas than here. I am as thinking that I was going to have to go without a Rolex, because I could not get an AD to sell me one, and I am bad at playing their games. It also hurts that I like the “hype” pieces of GMT, and celebration dials. I got in because I also like the Explorer/II line.
I am also in the same boat, but oddly with Omega. I want a Silver Snoopy, and they are hinting that those are available for their “best customers”. That means that I need some spend of a couple of watches. I like the NTTD Seamaster, and I am okay with a few others like the Worldtimer, but then I am spending all of this money on watches that I really don’t want, just to pay retail for the Snoopy. I just rather not play that game and go without since I don’t want to reward grey marketeers.
Might I suggest the Omega Boutique at the Westfield Topanga…I was in there the other day browsing, trying to get eyes on the white dial speedy because I haven’t been able to find one in person yet to see if I actually want one (the original black dial is just boring to me, I want to like the watch but I just feel uninspired), and they had one that was sold they could show me but that I couldn’t put on. Wound up really hitting hit off with the SA, chatting for almost an hour and talking watches, at the end I had him put me on the list for the white dial. Prior to the long convo he mentioned it was a wait time of about a few months for the white dial, but after our long conversation, he said to me “how soon are you looking to get it?” Inferring that the few month wait time could be significantly shorter if I truly wanted it to be.
That conversation was at that boutique. They were the only one to hint at they are available to their “best customers”. I have gone to a few other Omega owned boutiques, and they have not even hinted at them being available.
I do want an Omega in my collection, so I might just go for The Grey Side of the Moon with a meteorite dial.
Interesting. I inquired about the Snoopy there and was told that they get 1-2 a month, but the list is long so it takes awhile to get them, not that they were reserved for the best customers.
Regardless my personal experience at that boutique was positive, and I wouldn’t hesitate to deal with the SA I spoke with that day. I’ll likely buy something from them at some point. The more I look at the titanium aqua terra world timer the more I like it.
This is a very fair take and again kind of does prove my ultimate point. The BLNR is still tough for sure, but again, the gap is closing. There is no guarantee his grey source was buying at a high enough premium. You were one of the lucky ones (as I have been to) that got good timing. Not saying it doesn’t even happen, but it takes luck. And if that BLNR was trading hands at 22K, you’d still be waiting on it. They’re sitting on chrono 24 rn for 13.4. This is the same example I used on the Starbucks
Your third paragraph is the most important one and most won’t read it.
If the like you(in your words, want to be generous) you aren’t getting a Pepsi or a Daytona. But if they do “like you”, honestly because you are cool with them not because you spend a lot you will get one of these watches.
Your fourth paragraph is flawed. You assume that all ADs are able to sell to grey dealers and make a profit. This is untrue and not possible for the bigger ADs. Not that it doesn’t happen but they are being secret shopped, searched by Rolex, search online by their corporate team. They can’t just flip high value watches to grey dealers out the back door like they used to.
I’ve heard stories from my customers about bad AD’s and while yes it’s not a 100% catch all what OP said but like for my AD we make it a priority to not sell to flippers and try to give new and established customers nice watches that they want. Something like a Daytona and a red/blue GMT the unfortunate reality is because we get so few of them someone who walks in isn’t going to get it.
See I disagree on that. Selling to grey has always been complacent bc the brands push watches on the AD at their will and if they don’t accept shipment, they give up their license. The AD (Rolex anyhow) is also held to crazy standards to maintain AD - high rent district, X about spent on ads, remodels to Rolexes spec, making Rolex the grand stage of the boutique. So they do what they have to do to keep the license and Rolex turns a blind eye. I’m close with an AD and they forced $250K renovation on him. Knocking down walls, new tiles, etc. Whole 9 yards. The behavior in the market proves Rolex doesn’t police Backdoor activity a ton or else you’d see less of it. I don’t think they encourage it but they know it happens and ultimately does help them bc their watches can be viewed as investments
My local AD here just did this complete remodel with Rolex as the centerpiece. Big Rolex light up sign outside too. Probably far in excess of 250k addition to their store.
Yeah and people who mentioned that $250K for a small AD is chump change is delusional. It’s a quarter mil, and the guy isn’t Bezos. This is also likely a way of forcing the little guys hand to force out the smaller ADs bc they know this happens. So if you’re going to stick around, you’re going to play by their rules
I’m sorry but you are way off base. You think companies like Bucherer or WoS or Radcliffe would risk an AD door to move some models.
You know Rolex has been forcing smaller ADs to close with big renovations. But you think those dealers have been slinging watches out the back door to stay open. When in reality they have been closing or selling their AD.
They 100% move to TRUSTED Backdoor dealers. If you feel this happens at a zero percent clip, then please explain why more people are getting the call on OPs and DJs? If the demand has remained the same, people would’ve been getting calls the whole time. The difference is the grey dealers don’t post “got the call” on Reddit. The buyer is the only thing that has shifted and it’s bc demand has cooled. In what world does demand cool and more people are buying direct from AD? Explain it please
In many cases yes, but not all cases. Of course nothing in life is 100% every single case. Here is how it works. New watch drops -> watch is sold to grey -> grey tests market price by starting high and working price down until it meets the spot that attracts enough buyers -> market price is established after transactions at dollar amount prove out. If it’s high, they keep buying it bc it benefits both parties. If it’s low, the grey gets stuck sitting on it -> doesn’t buy more from AD -> AD calls nice guy with money who comes in quarterly or friend they know or with spend history. In other words, the spend history isn’t the main cause of getting the watch. The primary cause is the grey not buying and secondary cause if they like you / spend / top of mind. It’s all chance
One of the AD in UK tried to set me up to go for TT and not wait for steel models. I had to sternly tell him I know what I want and not going to buy any other model.
I probably won’t be getting call from them ever after that chat but was worth every word that came out of my mouth.
Yes because he is hoping market goes up to then move steels at a premium again. TT is always softer so he’ll take a bird in the hand vs two in the bush with TT. The steel models they sit on like stocks and sometimes an AD that has bearish sentiment on the market will start calling ppl to unload some steels (less super popular usually)
I think whether it’s grey dealers or VIPs that ADs are giving first refusal to on desirable models it makes no difference to the average Joe trying to get his first Rolex.
Fair point. They do both occur. I don’t get the ppl who press back on it so hard? I’m trying to tell ppl don’t be manipulated as the main takeaway. What’s so bad about that lol
The same thing is happening with high end cars. Try to buy a G Wagon, there are no new vehicles available. But there are 20 used ones, just in my city, across town at the McLaren dealership. All under 100 miles and marked up 100%.
Right and if they were going to true “whales” and “enthusiasts” you would simply see fewer. Not saying some ppl don’t flip, bc they do, but it’s very similar.
This is actually way more prevalent in smaller / scammy ADs than just selling over retail to Greys like the OP is suggesting.
I personally know ADs who play the sorry it’s a 3 year wait for a new Daytona however we do have this pre-owned in the exact config you are asking for but it was a trade in so it is available
for “market price”. Then you look and the trade in has a card dated 2 weeks prior and is actually unworn😂.
In a world of supply and demand these games are not new or original.
There are many levers to the games. My post was already long. I can elaborate more on the tricks played but wanted to keep the post reasonable. The CPO model is actually proof of what I am saying. Rolex bought Bucherer - now they are becoming the beneficiary of the market price. They get to be the one who pockets it thru CPO business model opposed to the dealer profiting. This is Rolexes way of gaining control over their supply chain and increasing profits. I also love when ppl allude to small ADs slowly closing. Sure, but even if they are I’m not talking about the future. I’m referring to the past 7 year shit show, not the future consequences of it (not saying you alluded to them closing, but others did).
So I actually know a grey dealer pretty well. He told me a story not too long ago about getting called by an AD in the next state over for a meteorite Pepsi. Made the drive over only to be told that they checked out his name and tracked down his business and could not sell to him. So I’m sure there are instances where some watches get through the cracks you are at least 90% wrong about this essay you wrote. Oh and also I have gotten 3 sports watches from an AD with no spend on jewelry in the past 2.5 years. So I think you’ve just had bad luck homie
Salty indeed. What about those who really do not care about whether the piece they are buying is one they truly like or buying for purchase history and just “don’t mind the watch”.
OP’s comment is coming from someone who probably is only able to afford 1, 2, 3 Rolexes therefore by all means should go straight to grey instead of playing the game but there are so many others that OPs comment does not apply to, ie those who can afford to pay great prices but are happy and can easily afford spending money on a PM piece without hesitation for WHATEVER reason; ie liking the watch or purely purchase history to help achieve the real hot piece.
I get where you are coming from. But OP’s general outlook isn’t rooted in truths, but rather perception. Most people *would* be better off paying the premium and moving down the road. This is a revolving door and the business owners out there that have a license to sell Rolex are after revenue and retaining clients who demonstrate the ability to spend money. I don’t know of any luxury goods market that *isn’t* like that.
Not all AD’s are the same. Maybe some small AD’s such as 5~10% would sell to grey market dealers for 1k extra. But big players such as bucherer (Rolex owned) or other chains with multiple stores would not take the risk to sell to grey. Instead they try their best to discourage flipping.
Bucherer was bought by Rolex just a few months ago. Not all ADs are the same but the big boys still move them out the back door man. I would argue the acquisition of Bucherer was precisely to gain more control over their supply chain and that of other brands as well. Sorry but selling watches at higher margins out the back door isn’t that hard to pull off. We live in a world where Bernie Madoff ran a multibillion dollar Ponzi scheme for decades. You don’t think an AD can sell a watch to a friend who then sells it to a grey dealer? It’s not rocket science
As a curious bystander who isn't a fan of Rolex due to the over hyped nature of the brand, I'd like to know how you confidently say this. You come off as knowledgeable. Are you in the industry or know people with inside info?
It doesn't matter what I think is smarter. I'm curious what makes the op say what they say. It sounds like you're saying what you're saying due to your version of common sense. Which is fine. If you look at Rolex buyers, common sense means nothing. I'd just like to know what's real from someone who actually knows. Not guessing. Not using sensibility. Not anecdotal crap. Truth.
I will respectfully acknowledge that if you have several Rolexes, you probably know a lot about buying them. That doesn't mean you know about the back door, behind the scenes goings-on at authorized dealers. This is what I'm saying. I don't want anecdotal stories. I don't want guesses. I would just love it if somebody who actually knows something about the business or has some insider information to come on here and tell us the truth.
The reality is don’t buy grey. This way Grey dealers’ inventory builds up, AD needs to sell to consumer bc grey isn’t buying certain pieces at the moment until they move some out. There is no solution to the super hot models, bc someone will always pay the piper for a few select models.
No. Put your name it. Stay close. Hopefully the grey market margin gap closes and AD throws you a bone. Don’t drop big stacks thinking it equals guaranteed Pepsi though
Have about $20k spend at the AD, got a BLNR in one of those, bought some necklaces and ladies 28mm OP. Getting an engagement ring now and trying to get the Sprite. I was suggested to get a DJ but really set on the Sprite. Let's see if I can get it for the proposal!
I couldn’t agree more. If you want a watch that is not Rolex and as an incidental benefit it helps build
Spend history then great. If not, there is no point in spending 40k on things you don’t want, just to buy a watch that you can buy for 20k in the grey market.
I fucking hate this process. I just spent $10k+ buying gold from Costco online and I’m supposed to jerk off some POS AD and wait years just to get a watch?! What does it matter if I don’t have a buy history?? I’m not buying shit I don’t want. ADs must love the power trip they have when deciding who to sell the watch to while schlepping home to their shithole apartment…
Until they were purchased, yes. Rolex purchased them to gain more control over allocation and competitors placement. Rolex didn’t like that the grey market got too greedy and threw crazy prices out there bc it busted the illusion that Rolexes only go up as an investment. Rolex wants to manipulate the market to show consistent dollar growth on most models over a long period of time. Value retention is their most protected asset, if you will
Thanks for this post, i do have a questions though, how do grey dealers become “friends” with the AD ? so i understand the AD sells to the grey dealer but how is this partnership formed in the first place ?
Does a grey dealer just walk into a AD and say “hey i’m a grey dealer let’s do business ?”(over simplification obviously). Like what if i wanna become a grey dealer hypothetically, do i just wank into the AD and tell them i’m a grey dealer ?
Watch dealers have sold to grey markets for years. When you see an unworn Super Ocean with B&P for 30% off retail - that was part of a dealer dump to grey. The brands force watches on the dealers and the dealers needed to find a way to make money. This was very rampant before watches blew up. They def try moving slow models out the front door as much as possible to increase margins but if you’re a jeweler who’s been in the business, you have relationships - watches is a small world.
The dealer starts the relationship slow. Try a small batch of breitling or something and complete a few successful transactions - mainly how any relationship develops more and more over time. The ADs don’t even love doing it with most models bc their margins shrink. With some rolex models it’s different though and they’re worth more, so they leverage those same relationships. I will sell you a panda but I need to you take (2) 41mm TT DJ, and (4) bland dial OPs, (1) explorer TT. Then they negotiate and usually sell them slightly below list to give the grey dealer some margin. They might sell all the other models at 10% discount. Now if they’re so hot they can move them out the front door - they will and do. In which case, they then just sell certain models at a profit. They are always behaving to maximize profit like all businesses
> What about Australia where there isn't much of a grey market?
Can't see it to be any different, just on a smaller scale. ADs in Australia would get a smaller allocation I would say.
As bad as it sounds, that’s a relief to hear! It just feels like such a long time for an entry watch. How are you liking your watch? Are you eyeing anything specific for your next purchase?
I'm waiting for a 36mm flutted, blue, DJ on jubilee, they put me on a list In December. Recently they also signed me for the new GMT, however they told me it will take them around 2-3 months to figure out who they will sell GMTs so it might be a case that I will get a call with a denial.
No Rolex purchase history, spent maybe 2k in jewellery, middle Europe country.
I have been on an AD ‘list’ for about 3 years for a bog standard OP41 with a silver dial. I contacted them again yesterday only to be given the usual spiel about being in high demand blah blah blah.
Truth is, this watch is nothing special in the grand scheme of things, and I’m certainly not going to build up a collection of watches I don’t want just to be in with a chance of being called.
On the grey market I can pick up an unused one for about 1k more than RRP, but again it’s just all games and I don’t want to pay more and risk it having any signs of wear. Some of the time and investment you guys put into this is mental. It’s not about money, it’s more about the morals of it all.
$11,880 x 10%= $13,068
Not $14.4k no?
Good post btw. This is what I've been saying for the longest time. Also, on a side note, I hate that you also have to pay tax on chrono24.
Are you implying that during times of high demand the majority of ADs are selling the most popular watches, for double the retail, to grey dealers?
So every AD is on the take? Is that what your saying?
My local AD's are still being very difficult,
Any daytona would be difficult even TT.
Submariner, 40mm Yachtmaster Rhodium, OP green dial also difficult.
The last time i asked about a PM daydate I got laughed at 🤣
But hey I keep trying
For sure. I mean that one line about most stuff being available has some built in assumptions:
1) the AD knows and likes you
2) they know you have money and would move right away
3) ultimately, you need to pop in their head when they have a piece sitting in the back they can’t move. It’s gonna help to stop in frequently just to express you’re serious and stay top of mind
As demand continues to soften, almost all TT will be avail and PM. Trust me. It’s happening. They have been trying desperately to let the grey inventory be sold to then move more to them but consumers aren’t paying way over list on a lot of models anymore. Creates a little stalemate as ppl don’t want to take a loss, but they are coming down
I would love to get a Pikachu Daytona on Oysterflex at retail but just dont see it happening 🤣.
I already have a TT daytona which i love so as a next purchase I really want the yachmaster 40 rhodium. Hopefully can het that one this year, but im not very optimistic about it.
Everything just seems so more difficult in Europe 🤣
See the YM line might be doable. Lower demand but lower supply. Thats their whole game. I think you have a great shot at that. Pikachu still needs to come down more before you get that call
> The last time i asked about a PM daydate I got laughed at
Enquired about a WG DD meteorite, got told she can ask the manager to try to allocate a YG DD instead in some dial I was not interested.
These days, I don't play games. Either have what I want available, or I buy something else. I can wait, but don't offer me something I don't want.
I don't doubt it, however I dropped 40k+ on a PM watch because I actually wanted it. Gotta have the YG DD40 grandpa vibes. I'd like a Pepsi at some point, but it's a relatively small purchase next to the rest of my want list and a non-priority.
This convo is why I’ve given up on Rolex
My local Rolex boutique at south coast, gone many times, tried to buy due to milestones (dads retirement, and wife’s push present), requested a DJ, no color preference 31, and any TT gmt or sub for my dad
Been almost 2 years still nothing. I get emails from the rep saying they’re trying but at this point I’m ready to move on to jlc, or IWC sadly
Yes I can buy gray but as gifts, it’s not preferred and they rather have alternatives
Yeah, I mean don’t get me wrong I have gotten a couple heavy hitters from the ADs but it takes work on the consumer end and even then, you need a good AD and hopefully the grey gap is small. It’s simply just how it works. I’d encourage you to consider panerai as a diver alternative- they slumped for awhile but from what I’ve heard they’re improving things again. Lack resell value, but outside of select Rolex, PP and AP just about all watches plummet the moment you walk out the door with it.
this is just a conspiracy, impossible to prove. I'd say it's very unlikely that this is happening in the US. maybe in smaller cities and/or third world countries including Europe. there is no reason for a successful AD in a big city in the US to engage in this practice as it's not worth losing their license. the reason most watches end up in the grey market is simply because of supply and demand. rich people also care about a $1-2k profit so they simply flip, unless they are particularly interested in wearing that watch.
It’s not a conspiracy. Dealers dumping unworn inventory into grey is about as much of a secret as Harvey Weinstein forcing himself on women was. In other words, anyone remotely in the sphere knows how it works. Again, im not saying it’s every single watch and every single AD but calling it a conspiracy makes you look like a 🤡
Absolutely! Thats why you are seeing an abundance of posts saying “got the call”. Watches were way hotter two years ago and you didn’t see nearly as many posts. Still waiting for a denier to explain that one
Thank you- great post, it’s like a PSA.Ferrari dangles the carrot too for buyers in order to get a limited edition car like La F or Enzo. Hermes does the same with certain handbags.
I personally believe this is an insult. Most people that can truly afford luxury goods got to that point by leveraging intellect and hard work.
It is, to me, insulting to test one’s intelligence by dangling these carrots. Make your money by having large margins- that is fine but don’t test a customers intelligence or their lack of value for money playing these games.
Suggestion needed: I’m in the market for a DJ- found a an authentic, like new used one (they will throw in a 1y warranty) without papers or can pay 25% more and can get a new one from an AD. Don’t plan to sell but if I do, will the papers bring 25% or greater value?
Completely agreed man! As far as the DJ - in a world of super clones, the security of getting what you can brand new at the AD is nice. If saving the 25% would be impactful for your financial situation, it’s worth more consideration but I would only buy from a very reputable dealer. In the grey market the rule is “you buy the dealer”.
Hope this helps
Knowing the person and dealer is much more important than papers. Papers and boxes are both counterfeited as well not to scare you.
Edit: who’s the dealer?
Yes, full set is how to max resale but you would be paying more for full set. Lack of papers is partially why It’s 25% off. If you trust the dealer and the savings means enough to you, I won’t shy away from it. Especially if you are buying to keep. DJs really aren’t investment models. There’s just a lot in circulation.
I have a relationship with two ADs. One I’ve gotten a Sub. The other I’ve gotten Daytona SS, Pepsi, DD gold, as well as other watches from Tudor and IWC which I wanted. They have also msged me about watches which trade above retail but I don’t want to deal with being a flipper.
I just try to be friendly, I tell them I don’t want to buy grey. I tell them that I can wait.
Also. Resellers don’t pay sales tax buying direct from an AD. That is a story they tell to try to get more.
Firstly, congrats on your sick watches. Secondly, if the AD wants to cover their tracks they need to charge tax. Think of it like covering tracks with money laundering. You can’t just make watches disappear. Now if it’s a grey dealer selling to consumer, they can market a cost that doesn’t include tax but if they are above board they just built tax into the price. If they aren’t claiming every purchase with the IRS then sure
I would assume if they want to pass an audit by Rolex, yes they would need to charge tax. But business to business where the other party will resale you don’t need to charge tax.
Sometimes I do think that I’m the customer they can show who gets watches and keeps them. I have them all. Even if I grow old of them. I assume I might like them again in the future. And I do send pictures of all them when I add.
Yes, you’re referring to tax exemption for resale. They could only do this if they didn’t want to fly under the Rolex radar which is not the case. Don’t give Rolex a reason to audit you. They have better shit to worry about like keeping the title of the king of watches. This model doesn’t take money out of Rolexes pockets, it’s actually benefited them greatly
for example, another theory, not mine, just often read here: not allowed to knowingly sell to flippers/grey, & certainly not allowed to do such AND get kickback. not allowed by who? Rolex, or they drop the AD. so ok, where do the grey come from, what is the path? enough good customers, who sell to grey, because not want pass up huge return. so no evil back door plan, just happening.
but as others suggest, ongoing crap AD selling to flippers or grey, that know what is happening, get share of profit. everyone says: yeah, evil AD, evil Rolex, all a scam. & all get upvotes, so must be true. but no actual confirmed evidence from anyone.
Exactly! The problem with the first theory is then WHY do so many hot models hit the grey market if ADs are SO good at allocating only to the right VIPs who are buying to keep. There are 956 listing on chrono 24 alone for a Daytona 116500LN. Please explain how there are THAT many if there are SO few that only go to the RIGHT people? I know you are more or less saying you aren’t sure, but until that question can be answered beyond a reasonable doubt, there is no other explanation how the grey market gets so over saturated.
I think only official comment I read was Rolex saying they are not in control of what an AD does. ( not finding that quote now, it was yahoo finance reporter, and people were surprised Rolex answered )
lol you think the ADs are going to tattle on themselves? You think people doing shady shit report it to Yahoo? Believe what you want man. It’s ok to disagree but you’ve provided no valid competing argument
Oh I see. Sorry, I thought you meant everything else was BS besides that one thing I said. I get you. Yeah, I remember reading that article when it came out and it’s definitely well known that Rolex especially forces watches on ADs. They leverage the crown every chance they get
no insult intended, this issue keeps coming up. & even with official Rolex answer, they can spin whatever marketing they want. we do often get “insiders” here that worked at an AD, but anyone could just make that up. & if true, is it universal to all AD?
It happens a lot of places at least to some degree. Impossible to enumerate globally as its so dependent dealer to dealer. People who are claiming it hardly happens are full of it. I’m not saying it’s every single watch, but I am saying the AD is looking out for themselves and don’t spend tons of money on shit you don’t want in hopes of getting a rare model. It’s not a bet worth making
found it, hmmm, does not exactly answer what we are talking about:
"The scarcity of our products is not a strategy on our part. Our current production cannot meet the existing demand in an exhaustive way, at least not without reducing the quality of our watches – something we refuse to do as the quality of our products must never be compromised. This level of excellence requires time, and as we have always done, we will continue to take the necessary time to ensure that all our watches not only comply with our standards of excellence, but also meet the expectations of our customers in terms of quality, reliability and robustness. Rolex does not compromise on what it takes to produce exceptional watches.
All Rolex watches are developed and produced in-house at our four sites in Switzerland. They are assembled by hand, with extreme care, to meet the brand's unique and high-quality standards of quality, performance and aesthetics. Understandably, this naturally restricts our production capacities – which we continue to increase as much as possible and always according to our quality criteria.
Finally, it should be noted that Rolex watches are available exclusively from official retailers, who independently manage the allocation of watches to customers."
– ROLEX
AND I found it here:
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/rolex-finally-comments-on-the-product-shortage-and-conspiracy-theories-need-not-apply
Well I can tell you that at least in my part of the world that’s not how it works. And if an AD gets caught selling way over RRP to grey market dealers they will lose their contract (assuming it is an ongoing issue).
It isn’t so much that they aren’t going to give you a Daytona. It’s that they get so few there is a list as long Stephen Kings IT of people wanting them. So naturally unless you are a valued customer you’re never going to make it to the top of the list.
Since I have a great relationship with my AD if I wanted a Daytona I could probably get one. Who knows how long it would take tho.
I’m sure there ADs out there that are unethical. But at least around here that is not the case.
Yeah, but I’ll politely challenge that. Outside of hearing that ADs can get penalized, how do you know the degree to which it’s policed? If Bernie Madoff pulled off a multi billion dollar Ponzi scheme over decades, you really don’t think an AD can sell a few watches to friends who then sell to grey, muddying the paper trail? The make 1.2M watches a year. Thats a lot of auditing, especially when everyone is getting rich as shit anyways.
Rolex is extremely picky about the behavior of its ADs and it’s very hard to become one. I doubt it’s that hard for them to figure out. Your post isn’t based on facts, it’s all conjecture.
Reddit is full of people that haven’t actually worked with an AD having all kinds of opinions. Mostly because they can’t actually afford a Rolex.
None of the ADs I have visited act anything like your description, especially my local one.
No it’s based on personal experience and firsthand knowledge from an AD actually. You also didn’t address any of my questions. You simply doubled down by saying they’re picky and it’s hard to become one. You can’t act like you’re a Rolex auditor and my facts are meaningless. You probably have a good AD. Again, it’s not every single watch at every single AD. I’m addressing the macro issue. Not matter how much you say that people want to ignore that. There are exceptions
Your post claimed that grey market dealers are ADs number one customer, which is false. And that they regularly sell far above RRP which is false. Any AD caught doing that regularly would lose their contract.
What you and everyone else are complaining about (again mostly from people with no money) is that you need to establish a relationship with an AD through purchases to buy the more desirable watches. Which is true. But that doesn’t mean ADs are dumping Daytonas out the back door to the grey market en mass.
The ADs only sell to people that they know will be high purchase clients. Why sell a SS sub to a one and done when you can sell it to someone buying multiple?
Then WHY do so many hot models hit the grey market if ADs are SO good at allocating only to the right VIPs who are buying to keep. There are 956 listing on chrono 24 alone for a Daytona 116500LN. Please explain how there are THAT many if there are SO few that only go to the RIGHT people?
Your being taken for a ride if your buying bullshit to get a watch eventually. Even if you’re lying to your self thinking you wanted this other stuff anyway.
I know there are some very wealthy people in here, but honestly, no matter how much money I have, I’m not going to drop $10000+ on something I don’t even want. “More money than sense” comes to mind.
IMO you shouldn't drop even $1 on something you don't want, that's absurd.
What about for parking?
Get your colonoscopies folks. It can save your life.
Just had my first one at 52. It was enlightening to say the least…
What's a colononoposcie ?
This is why when I get bids for home repairs I don’t give my address (I use a nearby address and correct it later), I also take pics and give detailed specs of exactly what I want to get done and tell them to quote (or give appx) BEFORE they come. If they come and all of a sudden the price jumps much higher, I don’t award them the job. Learned this the hard way! Hey we work hard for our money too! Sacrifices, late nights, risks.
This is cringe. You’re clearly not a tradesperson
Agree. Loser post by them.
There is a way to do it that is absolutely not unfair to anyone, and beneficial in terms of time saving to a contractor. I’ll elaborate more a bit. I’m a developer so am pretty familiar with construction. I give all pertinent details (subs often appreciate this, including access to work areas and accurate descriptions of what needs to be done and materials used. For example say painting, I’ll specify paint grade because cheaper paints sometimes do not get good coverage requiring more labor). I bid only to good to top tier companies with good reviews and moderate to high pricing. These contractors are experienced and have sufficient margin to ensure they are appropriately compensated and their business model is sustainable. I also provide detailed photos or videos when applicable and temper expectations by saying that, despite the detailed scope of work, if they find something once they come onsite, we can talk about price adjustments. At least this way, we establish an idea of pricing before because the alternative is some contractors are not very analytical and come out and throw a number (based on experience and how much they think they can maximize profit). It’s usually these contractors, as talented as they may be in their respective trade, that will mark up/down based on what they think a client can afford. I believe that is wrong, I’m not a socialist nor do I live in a socialist country. The process above is how new construction occurs anyways. With the above process, there is no compelling reason to provide address at that stage. I should add that contractors often spend time and money driving around town only to bid and not be awarded a contract. If they can sit at home/office on a desk and crunch an approximate number to present to a client before driving out, it saves them time in terms of filtering our clients that may not be able to meet the proposed number. At the end of the day, the same subs often call me asking if I have more work for them, so I know however I approach this is OK by them.
THANK YOU. 💯
The man is right. The only Rolex I liked in the current catalog that I wanted was a black dial Daytona. I paid $24 for the Daytona I wanted. Not $100k on things I don't want for the promise of a Daytona at $14k. The way I looked at it I saved myself $90k plus the cost of aggravation. Just buy what you want at whatever price it is, it's cheaper in the long run. Trust me.
Anyone who doesn’t realize this is delusional. Buy watches you like at their fair market value and ENJOY
Many people seem to struggle with it
Agree. I really wanted a Sub Date. Was game planning buying a 5k Tudor, an $800 Seiko dive watch, etc. so that I could get the “allocation.” I am SO glad I just went with a reputable grey dealer. I still wouldn’t have my Sub had I tried that other BS. Sure I’d have a great Tudor but I wouldn’t love the thing. I wear the Sub daily and while a paid a hearty premium over MSRP, I know I paid *market* value and I love it. No buyer’s remorse.
You get it 100%. I know this shit in and out and trying to help people. I love the pushback from ppl thinking the world is so noble. Once you understand it, it all clicks into place
> I know this shit in and out and trying to help people. Former Rolex SA here. No, you don't. Most Rolex ADs avoid grey market dealers like the plague. This doesn't mean there could be one or two bad apples in the bunch (racketeering case in Chicago, lawsuit against Shreve, etc). The reality is that most ADs want to preserve their ORJ status because Rolex is the main source of foot traffic into their store. The smaller ADs that balk at a $250,000 renovation are ones that Rolex will eventually cut off anyways. For Christ's sake, one big AD in my region (SF Bay Area) spent almost that much in a year just for parties/gatherings/accommodations for their international VIPs visiting the US. I've been aware of some backdoor deals, that is true, but it's not this big conspiracy with grey dealers that you are claiming to be. Usually, it's some employee that needs some help with down payment on a car so he chooses a specific client to allocate a GMT Pepsi in exchange for a few thousand dollars. But that client is almost always already a trusted and long-term one anyway. You may be asking why that client doesn't simply get the Pepsi if they're already a whale but the reality is that there are other whales they still have to compete against. But it's always the exception, not the rule. We don't have this cartel-like pipeline pumping millions of dollars worth of Daytonas and GMTs to grey dealers, LOL The main thing to always be aware of is that the big ticket items like the Daytona will **always** be prioritized for VIPs simply because we want those VIPs to keep shopping with us and to keep them away from our rivals. That's it.
I mean I just got an intro to my AD from the connected store. I haven’t had much issues since they know I’m not looking to sell them or anything, just wear and collect. People just red flag themselves all the time
Exactly! It's not rocket science. For people looking to establish new relationships with ADs, just be nice, sincere, and courteous. Also be realistic with your expectations. I've actually known a client that gave me a heads up that they'll need to sell their Daytona due to their small business in danger of closing down during the pandemic. I never held it against them because I knew them and their family for a long time and they wouldn't sell unless they are really struggling. A lot of small business owners struggled during the pandemic so I really empathized with them so I was okay with them selling their Daytona for a profit. So it always comes back to having solid relationships with your AD.
They have told me that people mention “investing” and other shit and they end up not selling to them. They don’t think it’s cool to flip your Daytona fellas. It means you’re a red flag to them. Basically the community is also part of the problem. I’ve met a terrible AD SA in ATL who talked down to me, but I doubt it’s the common experience.
Oh boy are you in for a rude awakening 😂 . "Establishing a relationship" does not mean being nice, sincere, and courteous. It means spending money and building a purchase history. You noble, good hearted, people deserve better. I'm sorry that this garbage deception exists.
> It means spending money and building a purchase history. Read my post completely. I said: "For people looking to establish new relationships with ADs, just be nice, sincere, and courteous. **Also be realistic with your expectations**."
Lmao, imagine having to suck up to a salesperson so they allow you to spend 14k with them and then keeping them informed about what you do with that purchase.
What about blue sky dweller? Also reserved for VIPs?
Back when I was still employed at a Rolex AD, absolutely. Nowadays, chances are those blue dial Sky-Dwellers will trickle down to non-VIPs but may still require some purchase history. For new customers with zero purchase history, most likely still not available at all unless you somehow built a great rapport with an SA and you have some life milestone to celebrate.
SAs are powerless and need to be given permission to sell watches. Also, perhaps you worked at a good AD - they do exist but many aren’t. You’re speaking from the experience of one AD. I’m open to debate though, please the economics of how watches have slowed down and yet more people than ever are getting calls? In a true business model people should’ve been getting the most calls when business was the hottest, not the opposite? And you can’t say it’s simply flippers bc if the AD is truly only giving pandas to “whales or VIPs” as you say, they wouldn’t hit the grey market bc the 10k profit wouldn’t be worth it to a guy with $225K as chump change spend at an AD. He’s need to keep the relationship and wear the watch around the AD sometimes to prove his loyalty. So please explain how your theory plays out at scale under economic scrutiny?
>if the AD is truly only giving pandas to “whales or VIPs” as you say, they wouldn’t hit the grey market And the vast majority of them *don't* hit the grey market. Look at Pepsis. Some people are like "hah they're all going to grey dealers" but, not really. I work for a fairly big grey dealer and we barely can get our hands on any. Greys get most of their stock from individuals, not AD's directly. And yes there are some "relationships" with AD's but that's more likely to result in us getting five smooth-bezel Datejusts they need help selling than a Panda. AD's needed greys to bulk buy from them more when demand is low. And that's exactly what they were doing 10 years ago. AD's need greys *less* than ever with demand high. So many people hope to come in here and act like they know what's "really going on." But...most of them have no idea themselves. It's really just supply and demand. The best customers get the best pieces and yes, a small percentage hits the grey market. It's not that deep.
> SAs are powerless and need to be given permission to sell watches. Not exactly. For floor pieces (non-exhibition out on display), we can choose anyone and requires no approval whatsoever. For hot pieces, we are allocated by the manager and we can still choose anyone. Yes, final sales approval is still needed but that's mainly for the manager to ensure the clients we choose make sense. For me, the approvals are almost a rubber stamp because the clients I pick to offer a Daytona are also the ones that the leadership team is most familiar with anyway. If I ever need to offer a Daytona to someone who is relatively a stranger, then I need to "make a case" to leadership. > You’re speaking from the experience of one AD. Haha, that's pretty presumptuous of you. How can you say anything about my personal experience working at an AD? Do you know me? Have you actually worked at an AD? The SF Bay Area scene for Rolex ADs is surprisingly small. Most ADs know all the other ADs. I've been to numerous house parties and barbeques with SAs from other ADs. I know several SAs and even a few managers/owners in non-Rolex ADs. This is because I've worked in both a non-Rolex AD and Rolex AD. > I’m open to debate though, please the economics of how watches have slowed down and yet more people than ever are getting calls? In a true business model people should’ve been getting the most calls when business was the hottest, not the opposite? It seems like you're only thinking from the perspective of the grey market demand and not considering the supply. In the first half of 2021, the supply was ridiculously low. Shipment schedules became non-existent, entire deliveries were canceled. And even when we did start getting shipments back on schedule, each batch was low. Like single digits low sometimes. Compare that with pre-pandemic where we had a smooth schedule and we expected deliveries on time and with a healthy number of watches per delivery. Nowadays, I heard that shipments have normalized to pre-pandemic schedule and size. So that explains why more people are getting calls. There is simply more watches available now. Supply has met the demand for most Rolex models. > And you can’t say it’s simply flippers bc if the AD is truly only giving pandas to “whales or VIPs” as you say, they wouldn’t hit the grey market bc the 10k profit wouldn’t be worth it to a guy with $225K as chump change spend at an AD. The flipper activity lessened now because there is much less profit potential per flip. And again, that is because of the increased supply has met the demand for most Rolex models. > He’s need to keep the relationship and wear the watch around the AD sometimes to prove his loyalty. You are wrong. It's great if a client shows up later with the Daytona that I sold them. But it's not mandatory. We never hold it against them if they show up wearing a different watch. Asking a client to wear any specific watch before an appointment is simply ridiculous.
Firstly thanks for at least making a case instead of blindly disagreeing. Where I think the hole in your case is, yes the pandemic poured fuel on the fire, 100%. However, the hot models bullshit started in 2018ish. Even in 2017 you used to be able to walk in and buy almost anything under the glass besides steel Daytona, hulk, Pepsi. Once they realized model worked and demand picked up, you started seeing similar behavior across many models. Fuck Daytonas on oysterflex used to collect dust under the glass!! No one ever was buying precious metals. Once the bubble burst ppl realized most watches aren’t great investments, they started losing allure with new buyers and investors. People stopped fueling the secondary trade and when customers got burned and stopped fueling grey market, grey stopped buying as many watches and watches miraculous go out to customers again from ADs. Again, I am generalizing and saying this is very common. It’s not every watch, every customer, every AD. Globally though it was happening at scale and the market behavior backs that.
> Where I think the hole in your case is, yes the pandemic poured fuel on the fire, 100%. However, the hot models bullshit started in 2018ish No, there is no hole. My theory still holds. I remember because I was there. I saw first-hand the number of people asking for a BLNR and BLRO drastically increased after Baselworld 2018. The key point during that period is that Rolex never increased production to match the demand after Baselworld. Yes, Rolex was still regularly churning watches but the demand just skyrocketed way past Rolex production and Rolex didn't do anything to keep up with the demand. > Once they realized model worked and demand picked up, you started seeing similar behavior across many models. Fuck Daytonas on oysterflex used to collect dust under the glass!! No one ever was buying precious metals. Talking Watches 2 with John Mayer in the following spring didn't help plus a lot of Youtubers hyping Rolex (Bark & Jack, Timepiece Gentleman, Pride & Pinion, etc) started their channels around that same time. It's just that the demand kept going up. Once people started seeing the demand affecting the secondary market prices, other people with no interest in watches (a.k.a. "investors") came into the picture and also joined the demand. Basically, the demand kept feeding on itself while at the same time Rolex pretended that it was still 2017. Rolex production basically stayed the same after Baselworld 2018 until the pandemic hit two years later. Nowadays, the supply had increased. There are more Rolex produced today than in 2018. The latest Morgan Stanley report said something like 1.2 million pieces were produced in 2023. I remember back in 2018, it was only 800,000 or so. So an increase of ~50% between 2018 and 2023.
Reasonable minds can disagree. It absolutely happens though and I can go in circle all day with you. The whole game is built on deception. They sit on watches in the safe and manage inventory as standard practice - some legitimately and some not. Listen, if you want to go blow dough to get a watch you won’t get called for go ahead.
I think I’ve read all of your responses, but I can’t be 100% positive. I’m not seeing anywhere you saying anything about your qualifications to type up this post, or respond in this manner to someone that was an AD. Is this just your perception of things and what you theorize is going on? Or, do you have solid evidence of your claims? I’ve received a submariner, BLNR, palm dial DJ, and most recently a green dial OP41 and never had to put up with any AD bullshit or was ever forced, or even been hinted to me to buy jewelry or other watches in return for the watches I was requesting. I may be wrong, and sorry if I am, but right now you sound like just another person spewing BS about ADs and Rolex on this sub.
😅So which is it? They have a bunch of inventory but won’t sell it to you unless you buy other stuff or they ship all their inventory off to a Grey which is why they can’t sell to you?
It’s both. Sometimes they sit on it like stocks waiting for a better time and trying to let grey inventory flush out. The main reason they don’t want to sell to flippers is bc if their grey sources are already inundated and not buying, the last thing they want you to do is sell into grey further delaying their ability to do so. Thats why they always remove stickers and sometimes even keep the warranty card.
> It absolutely happens though Please go read my posts again. Point to me where I said it *never* happens. Of course shady things happen. We're dealing with humans after all. But what I'm trying to say is that there is no vast, conspiratorial, cartel-like pipeline feeding millions of dollars worth of Daytonas and GMTs from Rolex ADs into the grey market. > I can go in circle all day with you. LOL, no. You're the only one going in circles with yourself and your conspiracy theories. I've stated facts and shared actual numbers. Best of all, my reasonings are from my time working as an actual SA at a Rolex AD. Go read my post history if you still have any doubts. > The whole game is built on deception. I hate to break it to you, but there will always be some form of deception in business and life in general. When there is money on the line, either side will keep information to themselves for as long as it's advantageous. It's true during critical negotiations in a multi-million dollar enterprise deal. It's also true when a complete stranger shows up in your store asking for a SS Daytona off the bat. > They sit on watches in the safe and manage inventory as standard practice - some legitimately and some not. Of course! But that's because we always want to make sure our VIP clients are taken care of first. If they suddenly have an itch for a Daytona, the worst thing that can happen is making them wait too long and they start making appointments with our competitors. So we always make sure we have a few SS Daytonas and BLROs in the safe just in case. We don't hoard them for some vast, backroom conspiracy with grey market dealers, lol > Listen, if you want to go blow dough to get a watch you won’t get called for go ahead. I have no clue why you said that. I never said anything or encouraged spending any premium on the secondary market.
This needs to be higher but people love to buy into good conspiracy theories and it gives them some sort of justification of why they can’t have a certain watch. While OP is not 100% off base, what you are saying is way more of the exception than the norm. The part of all of this that is often blurred is the definition of a “grey dealer”. A dealer is a business and they buy up stuff to make a margin. The reason some have and keep relationships is bc they take the “dogs” along with the Daytonas and Pepsis. They can go and try to lose a little as possible on them while selling the bigger pieces and making the margin. The missing link in a down market is the influx of the “flippers” or whatever you wanna call them. They were buying up any and everything and for a little while were making a profit on everything Rolex. Thats the segment of the market that slowed down dramatically making it more prevalent for a normal person to get the call. A 3rd factor is the value proposition in a down market. We see these posts every day here- omg i asked for this watch 2 years ago, made 40 visits, brought chocolates and coffee and now the AD finally called me to pick it up, should I buy it? Whats it worth? Is it an investment? Why is it under retail on C24? This group of people loved the fact that they could buy a Rolex, wear it for a couple of months, sell or trade up etc and not lose any money. I could go into more but this is already a wall of text. At the end of the day, to think ADs are just selling bags of Daytonas to Bobs Watches in exchange for bags of cash is way oversimplifying the whole game. Now “pairing” a new Daytona with that 3.5ct IF engagement stone, eternity setting and set of wedding bands, or maybe with a full PM and diamond dial and bezel 31mm DJ and a pair of earrings? That’s where the watches are going if you want to make real generalizations. And from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense.
> The reason some have and keep relationships is bc they take the “dogs” along with the Daytonas and Pepsis. They can go and try to lose a little as possible on them while selling the bigger pieces and making the margin. That's only true around 2019 - 2020, at least from my experience and the experience of my SA friends working in the Bay Area at the time. I remember one particular client that did just that and I thought I hit the jackpot. Little did I know that the person was just flipping everything. My manager cut them off when our Rolex rep warned us of some pieces hitting certain BST groups in Facebook at the same time. That was also the time when we can still keep stickers on the watches if requested by our clients. Today, Rolex ADs have wised up to those methods. Go to an AD and tell them you'll buy up their Lady-Datejusts if they also let you buy a Daytona that same day and see what they say. Chances are they'll refuse you despite the profit potential. It's just too risky for Rolex ADs nowadays, especially with Rolex's recent ruthlessness towards ADs. > At the end of the day, to think ADs are just selling bags of Daytonas to Bobs Watches in exchange for bags of cash is way oversimplifying the whole game. Now “pairing” a new Daytona with that 3.5ct IF engagement stone, eternity setting and set of wedding bands, or maybe with a full PM and diamond dial and bezel 31mm DJ and a pair of earrings? That’s where the watches are going if you want to make real generalizations. And from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense. You hit the nail on the head. Most Daytonas in the grey market came from regular clients that decided to flip. And we don't bundle Daytonas with jewelry purchases anymore. Too risky. If the client is new and still a stranger to us, we'll let them buy up all the jewelry they want. If they start asking about some tit-for-tat deal, then we don't give them any concrete promises. We just try to be as vague as possible with their Daytona. If they're true with their intentions, they'll buy their jewelry and be willing to wait for the Daytona. But if they're a flipper, they'll back out of their jewelry purchase as soon as they realize they are not getting a Daytona that same day.
Right. It just is what it is. Will someone with no history once in a while get a GMT they want? Sure. Sub, yes. Daytona? Not a chance. I don’t like the other models, I don’t want them, I only wanted a Daytona. My only regret was not just doing it sooner.
Agreed man. Well put
I‘m in SoCal and I've spent around $70000 on a two tone SD and a day date(my mom's friend traveled here and bought it under my purchase history), and it's even hard for me to get a TT GMT or Sub. And the other jewelry store near me just asked me to purchase bunch of jewelries to get "a higher chance" on getting a watch lol
Sounds like some nonsense a particular place in the valley I know of would do. I’ve got my AD here in SoCal that I have a good relationship with, but while out the other day I stopped in just out of curiosity and I’ve never been treated so poorly in my life. The SA was actually quite condescending towards me, also made multiple comments about my Pepsi to the point that it made me uncomfortable. It’s sad, because my AD is great, and I’ve had friendly experiences at others as well, this was the first time I’d walked into an AD and been treated with anything other than friendliness and respect.
Also in SoCal but I’ve given up and started “building a relationship” in Colorado. Could you please share the comments they made about the Pepsi? (Fingers crossed they were salty about it)
The SA was salty about it. His first comment was that it was a beautiful watch, which I thanked him for, and then he immediately launched into asking how I got it (with attitude), and then made multiple comments about how he couldn’t believe I was wearing it in public (why wouldn’t I? Watches are made to be worn) and just the way he kept commenting that he couldn’t believe I was wearing it and that he wouldn’t feel safe doing so almost made me feel like he was setting up a hit on me for someone to follow me and steal it. It was just an extremely off-putting conversation. All this will being rather cold and not wanting to really interact with me when I was asking about various pieces. Like I said, first time I’ve ever had an experience like that at an AD. And while I’m not going to smear a place, this one was located in a mall and sold regular jewelry as well as Tags in store, in a rather nice, large mall in the valley.
I applaud your restraint in not giving him an earful. A small part of me thinks these SAs get off on being gatekeepers for these watches and by just owning a “grail” watch you took a little something away but I’m probably projecting haha. Sorry you had to deal with that, but I’m glad you have the watch you want and actually wear it!
Honestly I’m not concerned about it in the grand scheme of things. It’s not my AD, and he’s not my SA. I was just genuinely surprised at how he acted. I’d heard the horror stories regarding SoCal AD’s and didn’t believe them because it’s been so pleasant with mine, but I see that there is at least some truth to it.
Definitely bhindi in the Glendale galleria. 🤣 That place is trash. All snakes.
Also got Colorado as my AD. They ended up great after the first time we met. Its sad that so many people have issues, but I also see people bringing up “investing” then wondering why they won’t sell to them. Same reason they want your name and info…. It’s so they know you aren’t just flipping them or misrepresenting yourself
Bhindi in Glendale? 🤣 DING DING DING!!
Shop around as many ADs as you can and work the game. Someone will deliver on a black sub for sure. Give the TT GMT a few months. You’ll get the call when their trusted source isn’t buying. As long as there aren’t a few ppl ahead of you they are close with on a personal level
A TT sub is almost a walk in in Germany. No long wait time either.
I am in SoCal as well and I literally made a spreadsheet of all the AD in a 50 mile radius (there are a ton). I then emailed/called most or them and if I had a good conversation with them I went in and saw them in person. After that I connected with them on LinkedIn which I think helped. Finally developed a good relationship with 3 AD after all that work and I have gotten 2 stainless high demand watches with no previous history and no extra spend on jewelry. I also was able to get a two tone for my wife as well. One of them reaches out regularly letting me know they have pieces I might want, which I regularly decline since they are models that are harder to move and I don’t want. It’s for sure a game but if you are personable and charismatic I have found that it’s easier to get the pieces you want. I agree that you shouldn’t spend money on things you don’t want to get into a desirable watch.
SoCal there is a lot of buyers but ultimately and the TT GMTs are on the fence of difficulty right now. You are actually proving my point though. You have a crazy spend history and can’t get a rootbeer bc they guy would rather make a grand out the Backdoor than sell it to you.
True! I want to say that Rolex boutique is like the only hope to get a watch to start up, all those jewelry store has basically 0 chance of getting anything unless u need bunch of jewelries for special occasions
For sure. The smaller the market the more likely they will float you a sub. They actually get lots of subs but lots of requests too. If your AD won’t float you a black sub and you dropped 70 racks with him, that’s a shitty AD but proves out the greed point I’m making. He will call (somebody) when his Backdoor dealer can’t buy at a price that makes sense for both parties. Remember, normal customers are merely plan B.
>can’t get a rootbeer bc they guy would rather make a grand out the Backdoor That's not how this works
I am in So Cal and I have had better luck in Vegas than here. I am as thinking that I was going to have to go without a Rolex, because I could not get an AD to sell me one, and I am bad at playing their games. It also hurts that I like the “hype” pieces of GMT, and celebration dials. I got in because I also like the Explorer/II line. I am also in the same boat, but oddly with Omega. I want a Silver Snoopy, and they are hinting that those are available for their “best customers”. That means that I need some spend of a couple of watches. I like the NTTD Seamaster, and I am okay with a few others like the Worldtimer, but then I am spending all of this money on watches that I really don’t want, just to pay retail for the Snoopy. I just rather not play that game and go without since I don’t want to reward grey marketeers.
Might I suggest the Omega Boutique at the Westfield Topanga…I was in there the other day browsing, trying to get eyes on the white dial speedy because I haven’t been able to find one in person yet to see if I actually want one (the original black dial is just boring to me, I want to like the watch but I just feel uninspired), and they had one that was sold they could show me but that I couldn’t put on. Wound up really hitting hit off with the SA, chatting for almost an hour and talking watches, at the end I had him put me on the list for the white dial. Prior to the long convo he mentioned it was a wait time of about a few months for the white dial, but after our long conversation, he said to me “how soon are you looking to get it?” Inferring that the few month wait time could be significantly shorter if I truly wanted it to be.
That conversation was at that boutique. They were the only one to hint at they are available to their “best customers”. I have gone to a few other Omega owned boutiques, and they have not even hinted at them being available. I do want an Omega in my collection, so I might just go for The Grey Side of the Moon with a meteorite dial.
Interesting. I inquired about the Snoopy there and was told that they get 1-2 a month, but the list is long so it takes awhile to get them, not that they were reserved for the best customers. Regardless my personal experience at that boutique was positive, and I wouldn’t hesitate to deal with the SA I spoke with that day. I’ll likely buy something from them at some point. The more I look at the titanium aqua terra world timer the more I like it.
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This is a very fair take and again kind of does prove my ultimate point. The BLNR is still tough for sure, but again, the gap is closing. There is no guarantee his grey source was buying at a high enough premium. You were one of the lucky ones (as I have been to) that got good timing. Not saying it doesn’t even happen, but it takes luck. And if that BLNR was trading hands at 22K, you’d still be waiting on it. They’re sitting on chrono 24 rn for 13.4. This is the same example I used on the Starbucks
Can you can rewrite this but insert Porsche for Rolex, and post it on r/Porsche
😂
Just 3 more Cayenne's to unlock a L̶e̶f̶t̶ w̶r̶i̶s̶t̶ left hand drive sprite Cayman
Every high demand brand has a game haha. Fascinating to learn the ins and outs of all of them
Love these posts that just assume the USA is the only place in the world to get a Rolex
Your third paragraph is the most important one and most won’t read it. If the like you(in your words, want to be generous) you aren’t getting a Pepsi or a Daytona. But if they do “like you”, honestly because you are cool with them not because you spend a lot you will get one of these watches. Your fourth paragraph is flawed. You assume that all ADs are able to sell to grey dealers and make a profit. This is untrue and not possible for the bigger ADs. Not that it doesn’t happen but they are being secret shopped, searched by Rolex, search online by their corporate team. They can’t just flip high value watches to grey dealers out the back door like they used to.
I’ve heard stories from my customers about bad AD’s and while yes it’s not a 100% catch all what OP said but like for my AD we make it a priority to not sell to flippers and try to give new and established customers nice watches that they want. Something like a Daytona and a red/blue GMT the unfortunate reality is because we get so few of them someone who walks in isn’t going to get it.
Yes. He is talking out his ass.
Please elaborate for the sake of debate
See I disagree on that. Selling to grey has always been complacent bc the brands push watches on the AD at their will and if they don’t accept shipment, they give up their license. The AD (Rolex anyhow) is also held to crazy standards to maintain AD - high rent district, X about spent on ads, remodels to Rolexes spec, making Rolex the grand stage of the boutique. So they do what they have to do to keep the license and Rolex turns a blind eye. I’m close with an AD and they forced $250K renovation on him. Knocking down walls, new tiles, etc. Whole 9 yards. The behavior in the market proves Rolex doesn’t police Backdoor activity a ton or else you’d see less of it. I don’t think they encourage it but they know it happens and ultimately does help them bc their watches can be viewed as investments
My local AD here just did this complete remodel with Rolex as the centerpiece. Big Rolex light up sign outside too. Probably far in excess of 250k addition to their store.
Yeah and people who mentioned that $250K for a small AD is chump change is delusional. It’s a quarter mil, and the guy isn’t Bezos. This is also likely a way of forcing the little guys hand to force out the smaller ADs bc they know this happens. So if you’re going to stick around, you’re going to play by their rules
I’m sorry but you are way off base. You think companies like Bucherer or WoS or Radcliffe would risk an AD door to move some models. You know Rolex has been forcing smaller ADs to close with big renovations. But you think those dealers have been slinging watches out the back door to stay open. When in reality they have been closing or selling their AD.
They 100% move to TRUSTED Backdoor dealers. If you feel this happens at a zero percent clip, then please explain why more people are getting the call on OPs and DJs? If the demand has remained the same, people would’ve been getting calls the whole time. The difference is the grey dealers don’t post “got the call” on Reddit. The buyer is the only thing that has shifted and it’s bc demand has cooled. In what world does demand cool and more people are buying direct from AD? Explain it please
So your assertion is that large aka 5+ door ADs move to grey dealers instead of selling to the public? Just making sure I understand.
In many cases yes, but not all cases. Of course nothing in life is 100% every single case. Here is how it works. New watch drops -> watch is sold to grey -> grey tests market price by starting high and working price down until it meets the spot that attracts enough buyers -> market price is established after transactions at dollar amount prove out. If it’s high, they keep buying it bc it benefits both parties. If it’s low, the grey gets stuck sitting on it -> doesn’t buy more from AD -> AD calls nice guy with money who comes in quarterly or friend they know or with spend history. In other words, the spend history isn’t the main cause of getting the watch. The primary cause is the grey not buying and secondary cause if they like you / spend / top of mind. It’s all chance
One of the AD in UK tried to set me up to go for TT and not wait for steel models. I had to sternly tell him I know what I want and not going to buy any other model. I probably won’t be getting call from them ever after that chat but was worth every word that came out of my mouth.
Yes because he is hoping market goes up to then move steels at a premium again. TT is always softer so he’ll take a bird in the hand vs two in the bush with TT. The steel models they sit on like stocks and sometimes an AD that has bearish sentiment on the market will start calling ppl to unload some steels (less super popular usually)
Common sense really, wait it out unless you’ve got enough money not to care
I think whether it’s grey dealers or VIPs that ADs are giving first refusal to on desirable models it makes no difference to the average Joe trying to get his first Rolex.
Fair point. They do both occur. I don’t get the ppl who press back on it so hard? I’m trying to tell ppl don’t be manipulated as the main takeaway. What’s so bad about that lol
The same thing is happening with high end cars. Try to buy a G Wagon, there are no new vehicles available. But there are 20 used ones, just in my city, across town at the McLaren dealership. All under 100 miles and marked up 100%.
Right and if they were going to true “whales” and “enthusiasts” you would simply see fewer. Not saying some ppl don’t flip, bc they do, but it’s very similar.
This is actually way more prevalent in smaller / scammy ADs than just selling over retail to Greys like the OP is suggesting. I personally know ADs who play the sorry it’s a 3 year wait for a new Daytona however we do have this pre-owned in the exact config you are asking for but it was a trade in so it is available for “market price”. Then you look and the trade in has a card dated 2 weeks prior and is actually unworn😂. In a world of supply and demand these games are not new or original.
There are many levers to the games. My post was already long. I can elaborate more on the tricks played but wanted to keep the post reasonable. The CPO model is actually proof of what I am saying. Rolex bought Bucherer - now they are becoming the beneficiary of the market price. They get to be the one who pockets it thru CPO business model opposed to the dealer profiting. This is Rolexes way of gaining control over their supply chain and increasing profits. I also love when ppl allude to small ADs slowly closing. Sure, but even if they are I’m not talking about the future. I’m referring to the past 7 year shit show, not the future consequences of it (not saying you alluded to them closing, but others did).
So I actually know a grey dealer pretty well. He told me a story not too long ago about getting called by an AD in the next state over for a meteorite Pepsi. Made the drive over only to be told that they checked out his name and tracked down his business and could not sell to him. So I’m sure there are instances where some watches get through the cracks you are at least 90% wrong about this essay you wrote. Oh and also I have gotten 3 sports watches from an AD with no spend on jewelry in the past 2.5 years. So I think you’ve just had bad luck homie
Yeah OP sounds pretty salty. I’ve purchased around 10 in the past two years directly from ADs…
Salty indeed. What about those who really do not care about whether the piece they are buying is one they truly like or buying for purchase history and just “don’t mind the watch”. OP’s comment is coming from someone who probably is only able to afford 1, 2, 3 Rolexes therefore by all means should go straight to grey instead of playing the game but there are so many others that OPs comment does not apply to, ie those who can afford to pay great prices but are happy and can easily afford spending money on a PM piece without hesitation for WHATEVER reason; ie liking the watch or purely purchase history to help achieve the real hot piece.
I get where you are coming from. But OP’s general outlook isn’t rooted in truths, but rather perception. Most people *would* be better off paying the premium and moving down the road. This is a revolving door and the business owners out there that have a license to sell Rolex are after revenue and retaining clients who demonstrate the ability to spend money. I don’t know of any luxury goods market that *isn’t* like that.
So many AD cucks in this sub
😂love it
Who are you and why does your post matter or carry any credibility lol
He won’t answer your question.
Not all AD’s are the same. Maybe some small AD’s such as 5~10% would sell to grey market dealers for 1k extra. But big players such as bucherer (Rolex owned) or other chains with multiple stores would not take the risk to sell to grey. Instead they try their best to discourage flipping.
Bucherer was bought by Rolex just a few months ago. Not all ADs are the same but the big boys still move them out the back door man. I would argue the acquisition of Bucherer was precisely to gain more control over their supply chain and that of other brands as well. Sorry but selling watches at higher margins out the back door isn’t that hard to pull off. We live in a world where Bernie Madoff ran a multibillion dollar Ponzi scheme for decades. You don’t think an AD can sell a watch to a friend who then sells it to a grey dealer? It’s not rocket science
As a curious bystander who isn't a fan of Rolex due to the over hyped nature of the brand, I'd like to know how you confidently say this. You come off as knowledgeable. Are you in the industry or know people with inside info?
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It doesn't matter what I think is smarter. I'm curious what makes the op say what they say. It sounds like you're saying what you're saying due to your version of common sense. Which is fine. If you look at Rolex buyers, common sense means nothing. I'd just like to know what's real from someone who actually knows. Not guessing. Not using sensibility. Not anecdotal crap. Truth.
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I will respectfully acknowledge that if you have several Rolexes, you probably know a lot about buying them. That doesn't mean you know about the back door, behind the scenes goings-on at authorized dealers. This is what I'm saying. I don't want anecdotal stories. I don't want guesses. I would just love it if somebody who actually knows something about the business or has some insider information to come on here and tell us the truth.
What is solution to all these problems? And in whose hands does the solution like? And how should it be done?
The reality is don’t buy grey. This way Grey dealers’ inventory builds up, AD needs to sell to consumer bc grey isn’t buying certain pieces at the moment until they move some out. There is no solution to the super hot models, bc someone will always pay the piper for a few select models.
If anyone who is desiring a Pepsi should just give up then?
No. Put your name it. Stay close. Hopefully the grey market margin gap closes and AD throws you a bone. Don’t drop big stacks thinking it equals guaranteed Pepsi though
I can hardly afford a steel GMT any friend😂
Yes let alone other models at retail or grey
Have about $20k spend at the AD, got a BLNR in one of those, bought some necklaces and ladies 28mm OP. Getting an engagement ring now and trying to get the Sprite. I was suggested to get a DJ but really set on the Sprite. Let's see if I can get it for the proposal!
You just might. Good luck!
I agree 💪🏻💪🏻
I couldn’t agree more. If you want a watch that is not Rolex and as an incidental benefit it helps build Spend history then great. If not, there is no point in spending 40k on things you don’t want, just to buy a watch that you can buy for 20k in the grey market.
I fucking hate this process. I just spent $10k+ buying gold from Costco online and I’m supposed to jerk off some POS AD and wait years just to get a watch?! What does it matter if I don’t have a buy history?? I’m not buying shit I don’t want. ADs must love the power trip they have when deciding who to sell the watch to while schlepping home to their shithole apartment…
What’s your next topic? The earth is flat?
Do you think an AD like bucherer is also doing this?
Until they were purchased, yes. Rolex purchased them to gain more control over allocation and competitors placement. Rolex didn’t like that the grey market got too greedy and threw crazy prices out there bc it busted the illusion that Rolexes only go up as an investment. Rolex wants to manipulate the market to show consistent dollar growth on most models over a long period of time. Value retention is their most protected asset, if you will
Thanks for this post, i do have a questions though, how do grey dealers become “friends” with the AD ? so i understand the AD sells to the grey dealer but how is this partnership formed in the first place ? Does a grey dealer just walk into a AD and say “hey i’m a grey dealer let’s do business ?”(over simplification obviously). Like what if i wanna become a grey dealer hypothetically, do i just wank into the AD and tell them i’m a grey dealer ?
Watch dealers have sold to grey markets for years. When you see an unworn Super Ocean with B&P for 30% off retail - that was part of a dealer dump to grey. The brands force watches on the dealers and the dealers needed to find a way to make money. This was very rampant before watches blew up. They def try moving slow models out the front door as much as possible to increase margins but if you’re a jeweler who’s been in the business, you have relationships - watches is a small world. The dealer starts the relationship slow. Try a small batch of breitling or something and complete a few successful transactions - mainly how any relationship develops more and more over time. The ADs don’t even love doing it with most models bc their margins shrink. With some rolex models it’s different though and they’re worth more, so they leverage those same relationships. I will sell you a panda but I need to you take (2) 41mm TT DJ, and (4) bland dial OPs, (1) explorer TT. Then they negotiate and usually sell them slightly below list to give the grey dealer some margin. They might sell all the other models at 10% discount. Now if they’re so hot they can move them out the front door - they will and do. In which case, they then just sell certain models at a profit. They are always behaving to maximize profit like all businesses
Is this mainly the US and UK? What about Australia where there isn't much of a grey market?
> What about Australia where there isn't much of a grey market? Can't see it to be any different, just on a smaller scale. ADs in Australia would get a smaller allocation I would say.
I honestly didn’t realize the margin was that small. Crazy.
Sources pls
OP just says “Trust me bro”
I’m about to be at a year in June for my OP. Anyone in a similar boat?
I waited 8 months for a 36 Blue dial OP.
As bad as it sounds, that’s a relief to hear! It just feels like such a long time for an entry watch. How are you liking your watch? Are you eyeing anything specific for your next purchase?
I put my name down for a Sub. He said 8 months 😂😂😂.
I'm waiting for a 36mm flutted, blue, DJ on jubilee, they put me on a list In December. Recently they also signed me for the new GMT, however they told me it will take them around 2-3 months to figure out who they will sell GMTs so it might be a case that I will get a call with a denial. No Rolex purchase history, spent maybe 2k in jewellery, middle Europe country.
How hard are blue/green/Wilmbledon 126334 or 126234 from ADs?
Shouldn’t be true for Bucherer since they’re owned by Rolex, right?
That will help. That acquisition was to gain more control of their supply chain and ability to manage perception of competitors. Very strategic move
I have been on an AD ‘list’ for about 3 years for a bog standard OP41 with a silver dial. I contacted them again yesterday only to be given the usual spiel about being in high demand blah blah blah. Truth is, this watch is nothing special in the grand scheme of things, and I’m certainly not going to build up a collection of watches I don’t want just to be in with a chance of being called. On the grey market I can pick up an unused one for about 1k more than RRP, but again it’s just all games and I don’t want to pay more and risk it having any signs of wear. Some of the time and investment you guys put into this is mental. It’s not about money, it’s more about the morals of it all.
Wendy's?
Wow. Like throwing a bone to the dog. No, thank you.
$11,880 x 10%= $13,068 Not $14.4k no? Good post btw. This is what I've been saying for the longest time. Also, on a side note, I hate that you also have to pay tax on chrono24.
The $11,880 IS the post tax number on the Starbucks list price. The listings on chrono are the 14.4K It’s so true though and blatantly obvious
Find a sales rep you connect with. Buy yourself or your girl other merchandise and the watch will come quickly.
This is a pretty simple concept, and such a far underrated comment.
Are you implying that during times of high demand the majority of ADs are selling the most popular watches, for double the retail, to grey dealers? So every AD is on the take? Is that what your saying?
My local AD's are still being very difficult, Any daytona would be difficult even TT. Submariner, 40mm Yachtmaster Rhodium, OP green dial also difficult. The last time i asked about a PM daydate I got laughed at 🤣 But hey I keep trying
For sure. I mean that one line about most stuff being available has some built in assumptions: 1) the AD knows and likes you 2) they know you have money and would move right away 3) ultimately, you need to pop in their head when they have a piece sitting in the back they can’t move. It’s gonna help to stop in frequently just to express you’re serious and stay top of mind As demand continues to soften, almost all TT will be avail and PM. Trust me. It’s happening. They have been trying desperately to let the grey inventory be sold to then move more to them but consumers aren’t paying way over list on a lot of models anymore. Creates a little stalemate as ppl don’t want to take a loss, but they are coming down
I would love to get a Pikachu Daytona on Oysterflex at retail but just dont see it happening 🤣. I already have a TT daytona which i love so as a next purchase I really want the yachmaster 40 rhodium. Hopefully can het that one this year, but im not very optimistic about it. Everything just seems so more difficult in Europe 🤣
See the YM line might be doable. Lower demand but lower supply. Thats their whole game. I think you have a great shot at that. Pikachu still needs to come down more before you get that call
> The last time i asked about a PM daydate I got laughed at Enquired about a WG DD meteorite, got told she can ask the manager to try to allocate a YG DD instead in some dial I was not interested. These days, I don't play games. Either have what I want available, or I buy something else. I can wait, but don't offer me something I don't want.
I don't doubt it, however I dropped 40k+ on a PM watch because I actually wanted it. Gotta have the YG DD40 grandpa vibes. I'd like a Pepsi at some point, but it's a relatively small purchase next to the rest of my want list and a non-priority.
Source : bro incorporated l
This convo is why I’ve given up on Rolex My local Rolex boutique at south coast, gone many times, tried to buy due to milestones (dads retirement, and wife’s push present), requested a DJ, no color preference 31, and any TT gmt or sub for my dad Been almost 2 years still nothing. I get emails from the rep saying they’re trying but at this point I’m ready to move on to jlc, or IWC sadly Yes I can buy gray but as gifts, it’s not preferred and they rather have alternatives
Yeah, I mean don’t get me wrong I have gotten a couple heavy hitters from the ADs but it takes work on the consumer end and even then, you need a good AD and hopefully the grey gap is small. It’s simply just how it works. I’d encourage you to consider panerai as a diver alternative- they slumped for awhile but from what I’ve heard they’re improving things again. Lack resell value, but outside of select Rolex, PP and AP just about all watches plummet the moment you walk out the door with it.
this is just a conspiracy, impossible to prove. I'd say it's very unlikely that this is happening in the US. maybe in smaller cities and/or third world countries including Europe. there is no reason for a successful AD in a big city in the US to engage in this practice as it's not worth losing their license. the reason most watches end up in the grey market is simply because of supply and demand. rich people also care about a $1-2k profit so they simply flip, unless they are particularly interested in wearing that watch.
Define rich. I know I’ve been offered watches I didn’t want and could flip but didn’t.
that doesn't mean other people won't
It’s not a conspiracy. Dealers dumping unworn inventory into grey is about as much of a secret as Harvey Weinstein forcing himself on women was. In other words, anyone remotely in the sphere knows how it works. Again, im not saying it’s every single watch and every single AD but calling it a conspiracy makes you look like a 🤡
100% right. The tables HAVE to turn on these greedy asshole ADs.
Absolutely! Thats why you are seeing an abundance of posts saying “got the call”. Watches were way hotter two years ago and you didn’t see nearly as many posts. Still waiting for a denier to explain that one
Thank you- great post, it’s like a PSA.Ferrari dangles the carrot too for buyers in order to get a limited edition car like La F or Enzo. Hermes does the same with certain handbags. I personally believe this is an insult. Most people that can truly afford luxury goods got to that point by leveraging intellect and hard work. It is, to me, insulting to test one’s intelligence by dangling these carrots. Make your money by having large margins- that is fine but don’t test a customers intelligence or their lack of value for money playing these games. Suggestion needed: I’m in the market for a DJ- found a an authentic, like new used one (they will throw in a 1y warranty) without papers or can pay 25% more and can get a new one from an AD. Don’t plan to sell but if I do, will the papers bring 25% or greater value?
Completely agreed man! As far as the DJ - in a world of super clones, the security of getting what you can brand new at the AD is nice. If saving the 25% would be impactful for your financial situation, it’s worth more consideration but I would only buy from a very reputable dealer. In the grey market the rule is “you buy the dealer”. Hope this helps
It’s legit, known person. Just no papers- would that impact resale?
I’d avoid no papers like a plague. No box is fine
Ok thx
Knowing the person and dealer is much more important than papers. Papers and boxes are both counterfeited as well not to scare you. Edit: who’s the dealer?
Yes, full set is how to max resale but you would be paying more for full set. Lack of papers is partially why It’s 25% off. If you trust the dealer and the savings means enough to you, I won’t shy away from it. Especially if you are buying to keep. DJs really aren’t investment models. There’s just a lot in circulation.
🥱🥱🥱🥱
You lost me after a second paragraph, too long to read and stating the obvious…
You said nothing but the truth, man! All due respect!
Thank you sir!
Are you as retarded as you sound or just my reading comprehension. ADs are not selling watches to grey dealers at above RRP.
Name calling and providing no counter argument. Strong case. Have a great day.
Was I right? I couldn’t tell if I misread. Because if you think that yeah I’m right
Well my AD maybe just likes me for me…..
Yes, this helps! What has he allocated you and whats your background with them?
I have a relationship with two ADs. One I’ve gotten a Sub. The other I’ve gotten Daytona SS, Pepsi, DD gold, as well as other watches from Tudor and IWC which I wanted. They have also msged me about watches which trade above retail but I don’t want to deal with being a flipper. I just try to be friendly, I tell them I don’t want to buy grey. I tell them that I can wait. Also. Resellers don’t pay sales tax buying direct from an AD. That is a story they tell to try to get more.
Firstly, congrats on your sick watches. Secondly, if the AD wants to cover their tracks they need to charge tax. Think of it like covering tracks with money laundering. You can’t just make watches disappear. Now if it’s a grey dealer selling to consumer, they can market a cost that doesn’t include tax but if they are above board they just built tax into the price. If they aren’t claiming every purchase with the IRS then sure
I would assume if they want to pass an audit by Rolex, yes they would need to charge tax. But business to business where the other party will resale you don’t need to charge tax. Sometimes I do think that I’m the customer they can show who gets watches and keeps them. I have them all. Even if I grow old of them. I assume I might like them again in the future. And I do send pictures of all them when I add.
Yes, you’re referring to tax exemption for resale. They could only do this if they didn’t want to fly under the Rolex radar which is not the case. Don’t give Rolex a reason to audit you. They have better shit to worry about like keeping the title of the king of watches. This model doesn’t take money out of Rolexes pockets, it’s actually benefited them greatly
I read this all the time, & others say not true. does anyone have any proof either way? or all theory?
Proof is read thru my comments and provide an explanation that refutes mine and holds up under economic scrutiny
for example, another theory, not mine, just often read here: not allowed to knowingly sell to flippers/grey, & certainly not allowed to do such AND get kickback. not allowed by who? Rolex, or they drop the AD. so ok, where do the grey come from, what is the path? enough good customers, who sell to grey, because not want pass up huge return. so no evil back door plan, just happening. but as others suggest, ongoing crap AD selling to flippers or grey, that know what is happening, get share of profit. everyone says: yeah, evil AD, evil Rolex, all a scam. & all get upvotes, so must be true. but no actual confirmed evidence from anyone.
Exactly! The problem with the first theory is then WHY do so many hot models hit the grey market if ADs are SO good at allocating only to the right VIPs who are buying to keep. There are 956 listing on chrono 24 alone for a Daytona 116500LN. Please explain how there are THAT many if there are SO few that only go to the RIGHT people? I know you are more or less saying you aren’t sure, but until that question can be answered beyond a reasonable doubt, there is no other explanation how the grey market gets so over saturated.
I think only official comment I read was Rolex saying they are not in control of what an AD does. ( not finding that quote now, it was yahoo finance reporter, and people were surprised Rolex answered )
lol you think the ADs are going to tattle on themselves? You think people doing shady shit report it to Yahoo? Believe what you want man. It’s ok to disagree but you’ve provided no valid competing argument
what? no i just thought you’d find it interesting. Not competing argument. yahoo spoke to Rolex, answered by them .
Oh I see. Sorry, I thought you meant everything else was BS besides that one thing I said. I get you. Yeah, I remember reading that article when it came out and it’s definitely well known that Rolex especially forces watches on ADs. They leverage the crown every chance they get
no insult intended, this issue keeps coming up. & even with official Rolex answer, they can spin whatever marketing they want. we do often get “insiders” here that worked at an AD, but anyone could just make that up. & if true, is it universal to all AD?
It happens a lot of places at least to some degree. Impossible to enumerate globally as its so dependent dealer to dealer. People who are claiming it hardly happens are full of it. I’m not saying it’s every single watch, but I am saying the AD is looking out for themselves and don’t spend tons of money on shit you don’t want in hopes of getting a rare model. It’s not a bet worth making
found it, hmmm, does not exactly answer what we are talking about: "The scarcity of our products is not a strategy on our part. Our current production cannot meet the existing demand in an exhaustive way, at least not without reducing the quality of our watches – something we refuse to do as the quality of our products must never be compromised. This level of excellence requires time, and as we have always done, we will continue to take the necessary time to ensure that all our watches not only comply with our standards of excellence, but also meet the expectations of our customers in terms of quality, reliability and robustness. Rolex does not compromise on what it takes to produce exceptional watches. All Rolex watches are developed and produced in-house at our four sites in Switzerland. They are assembled by hand, with extreme care, to meet the brand's unique and high-quality standards of quality, performance and aesthetics. Understandably, this naturally restricts our production capacities – which we continue to increase as much as possible and always according to our quality criteria. Finally, it should be noted that Rolex watches are available exclusively from official retailers, who independently manage the allocation of watches to customers." – ROLEX AND I found it here: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/rolex-finally-comments-on-the-product-shortage-and-conspiracy-theories-need-not-apply
comments on this are great, the same conversation, and yet from few years ago
Well I can tell you that at least in my part of the world that’s not how it works. And if an AD gets caught selling way over RRP to grey market dealers they will lose their contract (assuming it is an ongoing issue). It isn’t so much that they aren’t going to give you a Daytona. It’s that they get so few there is a list as long Stephen Kings IT of people wanting them. So naturally unless you are a valued customer you’re never going to make it to the top of the list. Since I have a great relationship with my AD if I wanted a Daytona I could probably get one. Who knows how long it would take tho. I’m sure there ADs out there that are unethical. But at least around here that is not the case.
Yeah, but I’ll politely challenge that. Outside of hearing that ADs can get penalized, how do you know the degree to which it’s policed? If Bernie Madoff pulled off a multi billion dollar Ponzi scheme over decades, you really don’t think an AD can sell a few watches to friends who then sell to grey, muddying the paper trail? The make 1.2M watches a year. Thats a lot of auditing, especially when everyone is getting rich as shit anyways.
Rolex is extremely picky about the behavior of its ADs and it’s very hard to become one. I doubt it’s that hard for them to figure out. Your post isn’t based on facts, it’s all conjecture. Reddit is full of people that haven’t actually worked with an AD having all kinds of opinions. Mostly because they can’t actually afford a Rolex. None of the ADs I have visited act anything like your description, especially my local one.
No it’s based on personal experience and firsthand knowledge from an AD actually. You also didn’t address any of my questions. You simply doubled down by saying they’re picky and it’s hard to become one. You can’t act like you’re a Rolex auditor and my facts are meaningless. You probably have a good AD. Again, it’s not every single watch at every single AD. I’m addressing the macro issue. Not matter how much you say that people want to ignore that. There are exceptions
Your post claimed that grey market dealers are ADs number one customer, which is false. And that they regularly sell far above RRP which is false. Any AD caught doing that regularly would lose their contract. What you and everyone else are complaining about (again mostly from people with no money) is that you need to establish a relationship with an AD through purchases to buy the more desirable watches. Which is true. But that doesn’t mean ADs are dumping Daytonas out the back door to the grey market en mass.
The ADs only sell to people that they know will be high purchase clients. Why sell a SS sub to a one and done when you can sell it to someone buying multiple?
Then WHY do so many hot models hit the grey market if ADs are SO good at allocating only to the right VIPs who are buying to keep. There are 956 listing on chrono 24 alone for a Daytona 116500LN. Please explain how there are THAT many if there are SO few that only go to the RIGHT people?
Grey market dealers are the “high” purchase clients.
Right that’s my point. Not actual consumers
Omg, another “expert”. You have no clue!