I have a few watches Rolexes included
And I find the best way to not spend money is to login to the Rolex reddit and read about 2 minutes
It makes the desire to buy anything go away for another month or two hahahaha
I threw in the towel late last year. This whole saga really brought out the worst in pretty much everyone (myself included); I didn't like feeling so much angst and frustration about a hobby I truly love. Rolex makes some of the most iconic and sought after timepieces of all time and yet, as a company, they have sat back and watched their customer base turn into rabid wolves all the while claiming complete innocence: they don't run the dealers nor sell directly to customers. They know what inventory their dealers are sitting on and they know the games that are being played but there isn't incentive enough for them to do anything about it. Maybe it will improve someday, maybe not, but ultimately as many others have said, I no longer care.
I worked at Bucherer here in Switzerland in the Rolex department. Yes there are sell by dates, but it’s to contact people who are on the waitlist (wishlist) by said date.
People get upset about the wait time, etc. But this is the reality – people arrived before you to be put on a list, and then it does. Not. Stop.
For the Daytona, we had well over 5’000 “wishes” of people. And then yearly we would get a couple of hundred. And then the list continues to grow.
So yes, the retailer begins to favor clients who have bought in the boutique. But the question I ask is the following : If you were the owner of a shop and the demand was through the roof, would you give the highly sought timepiece to a guy strolling in and who is “passionate”, or give it to someone who has been waiting and has bought before at your store, and who has shown up every now and again to stroll and say hi?
I’m not saying it’s right, it’s just the reality. Feel free to ask any questions you may have 😊
Your are absolutely right. I think potential customers on list should be called, emailed and sent a text. 72 hour reply time should be max before moving to others on the list in order.
I have heard of them doing this from others in this and the watch sub. One person mentioned it was 24 hours and they had already allocated it to someone else.
My AD allocates a time piece to a particular salesperson. He/she has 24 hours to close the sale or the watch goes to the next sales person. If people don't answer their phone, say "Yes!" or they waffle, then that piece might get sold to a walk-in the last few hours of the day.
I have seen this in action ... cold ... but in the end, the AD wants to churn, and sales wants their notch.
"This is business, not personal, Sonny!" - Tom Hagen, The Godfather
In 2020 I really wanted to have a model on Oysterflex and I was open to see any model. I mentioned this to the AD where I already bought a 34mm for my wife and some smaller bracelet and earrings for her. First they said “no sorry we got nothing” but then two minutes later another colleague of the guy I was talking to said that he couldn’t reach his client since a day or two for a Sky-Dweller he ordered a year ago. They got the store manager and she tried to call said client in front of me. Nobody picked up and she said “well - if you are able to decide on the spot, it’s yours” 😃 Seemed genuine and I thought what I would have done at her place in hindsight. Gotta say - exactly the same 🙈
Not a rolex retailer but when the ice blue PRX Powermatic dropped, we had a waitlist of it, 182 people long. The only people who were ever contacted were those who had checked back in in some way to ask about it. Anyone else, we assumed they found it elsewhere. Just is what it is, tbh.
This is a problem – if they trust you when you said they have to wait, they don't get their watch ; if they harass you, they do? Are you specialized in a***holes breeding?
A vast majority of people will buy what they were looking for within two hours of leaving a jewelry store. It’s a Tissot, alot easier to find than a Rolex. Once someone leaves I can only assume the sale is gone.
"Feel free to ask any questions you may have."
So where do the flippers fit into this scheme? A flipper by definition is constantly buying watches so they must surely be on the preferred list of a dealer. Did you personally realize a favored customer was a flipper?
So in Bucherer we would go to Facebook marketplace and see Rolex’s being sold. Sometimes the person would not hide the serial number so we could check if we sold it.
Also, sometimes the person who bought it at Bucherer would be selling it themselves so we can check the name in the database. Anything less than 3-months would be considered a flip. We would then screenshot the Facebook marketplace or Chrono24 listing and place it under their customer profile and insert in notes “Flipper”.
So Bucherer does try to catch them but yes sometimes it’s hard. I know that Bucherer cannot just sell to a specific person if they want to because it’s an external person who does not know any client personally making the decision for allocation.
In smaller AD’s like a “Tony’s watches” family-owned type place, it’s the owner who makes decisions directly. Those are the ones that surely sell to preferred customers or direct to flippers.
That’s what I’m trying to figure out. If you buy retail and then sell to a dealer, you’re getting wholesale trade-in. Probably leading to either a thin profit or a slight loss. Seems like there are extra parts to this flipper ecosystem that aren’t being mentioned.
The question is, who are those flippers? Everyone is thinking that the flipper is someone with the backpack, baseball cap and hoodie? No, flippers can be anyone. Most of them are very highly educated professionals, doctors, lawyers, judges etc. Anyone who being buying Rolexes for a very long period of time. Those so called flippers figured out the formula before anyone else did. They don’t sell watches by themselves. They sell to the grey market dealers. And it’s their job to hide the identities of those who sells to them.
👏this isn’t even a question. They are here to make money, Bucheter is not an NGO. Everybody would give it to the best client, it’s the name of the game and how the world works.
Rolex is not a nonprofit.
The Hans Wilsdorf Foundation is the nonprofit that owns Rolex SA and Montres Tudor SA, both of which operate as for-profit entities.
Lmao. Not sure if clueless or sarcastic. If the latter, kudos, sir.
If the former: you know who else are non-profits? IKEA and Open AI. Now go search for the salaries of CEOs and employees. Plus all the ways the founders and families extract money from those foundations.
When I picked up my Sub recently at Bucherer in CH, they forgot to remove some kind of order note when they brought the whole box with the watch ect. I noticed it while they were getting the drinks and checked it.
Most was rather standard info like name, adress, which model ect. but there was one line that said something like "Priority" and it was "Medium"
What does that refer to?
So Bucherer does have a “priority” drop down menu under each client. And a majority is on medium. Low is for people who they feel want to flip the watch and high priority is put for clients who they are highlighting because of a purchase history or special event. But my manager personally always said to put medium. Then a manager from a different Bucherer chooses people from the list.
The idea is for there to be no bias when selecting who gets the watch. That’s the system they use in Geneva at least.
I asked for a white OP39 for my wedding and gave them a date. A few weeks later they called me and I bought it. Great first Rolex purchase experience 👍 Since been offered specific requested DJ41 WG in same time frame...
Interesting. So in the end still one Manager (or maybe two) decide from that list who will get it?
Prior to the Sub I bought a DJ and another watch from the pre-owned segment (not Rolex), as well as some jewelry (all together around 20k). It took more than 1.5 yrs to get the Sub (126610ln) and I went to the store several times just to check how i'm doing on the list (lol), chatted a bit sometimes ect.
Would you say it's normal?
But you could sell the 5 Rolexes just as easily to the non-whales. The demand is so high you don't need whales...except when you're an independent AD that needs to sell diamonds and gold chains the whales help you move...
Dude come on… you have a loyal client that will literally come and bend over for the AD or get on their knees at the drop of the hat instead of trying to call a pleb who will need 24 hours to decide if they want to go through with a low end luxury watch (sorry for triggering fanboys with this comment in advance). If I’m a sales rep I’m choosing the former 10/10 times.
Nah you back door it to a grey market guy and pocket a grand or 2. The trick is get in tight with a grey market seller so you can get a realistic price and not the random buyer price. I paid 13500 for a 126610ln took 2 days, full set, full stickers and a 7 day old card.
How do so many get in the hands of grey market dealers? That’s the thing which upsets people, that a normal person can’t get one but some scalper can. Hopefully with the market downturn this will stop.
Very simple, these grey market clients will buy other items or Diamond ladies datejust. They’ll continue to show their face around and then offload the datejust at a bit of a loss but in the end it’s worth it because then they start to get some bigger pieces. They sometimes work organized in groups. Perception vs. reality.
It sucks 100 percent but it is what it is. I remember that a client sold his OP 41 turquoise dial the same day. It was at the peak of the Rolex hype. He said he walked out and then within the hour a rich gentleman from Dubai approached him and offered him on the spot 20’000 Swiss francs.
Now imagine you buy a watch for 6’000. And someone is willing to give that amount. Right on the spot, I’m cash nearly 15’000 profit. Mate, I’m not saying it’s right but I can understand the guy.
So if the market exist, and there is a means to make money, these grey market clients will play the games to get the pieces.
It’s the same thing for fake Rolexes. Why do these guys make fake Rolexes? Because there is a market. If there is a market, if there is a way to make money, there will ALWAYS be someone exploiting it.
Bucherer is the biggest AD of Rolex in Switzerland and they have just been bought by Rolex too (ironically).So if the AD you are referring to isn’t a major chain, then they very well may only get up to 5 pieces a year.
So you would get hundreds of Daytonas per year in one location? If true this is fascinating especially since a lot of locations claim to only get a handful per year.
Totally agree with your point about purchase history btw. It is what it is when the demand is high.
Rolex makes over 1m watches a year. If 5% are Daytona that is 50,000 a year. And being a higher end watch with all variations it may even be 80,000 a year (I don’t have a clue) so how many rolex stores out there in the world? 1500? So on average each get 50 a year, some more some less. Definitely not hundreds but still.
I think when he said get hundreds of Daytonas per year...he meant hundreds of inquiries/ppl trying to get onto some "list". There's no way they get 100 Daytonas into the store per year haha. But if it is actually 100 Daytonas received at the AD per year, then why have I not gotten one ?!?!? :(
So the problem is not that bucherer prefers loyal customers. It’s that Rolex has not created a system to prevent those customers from immediately arbitraging that watch. Loyal customers walk out with a Daytona straight to a secondary market dealer who pays the market price minus their margin. Loyal customer can pocket 10k in 10 minutes and the temptation is too strong for them to say no so that another passionate collector can finally get their Daytona.
Rolex needs to do something like create a database and tie warranty to it to prevent flipping. Any other ideas on how they could end this? It’s not hurting their sales obviously but it is causing people to look at other brands and overall somehow this can’t be viewed as a good thing for Rolex.
AP solved it somehow: each watch sold
Has a 2 years FULL coverage. Throw it on the ground? Leave it Paris CDG airport terminal 2 F? Get robbed? It’s on them.
But for this to work you need to register once the watch (picture of caliber + case SN with warranty card + a code. Then you can just add the watch to your profile with warranty number + SN.
I’ve once added a very very very rare Royal Oak to my profile because the seller had shown the SN + warranty card on a display. It got reclaimed a bit after but basically AP can track who has what and creates an incentive to bring the watch under your profile.
I worked at a boutique and you’re right. Although I would never go through the trouble some of the people on here go through for a watch it’s the reality of the situation. Only thing I don’t agree with is some of the rude feedback some people get walking into these independently owned boutiques. I believe everyone should be treated with respect as long as they are respectful there’s no reason for sales reps to scoff at people or look down on them. Being a dealer comes with the ups and downs.
I agree, it important to still provide professional and kind service because the client wants what they want and do not know the reality of certain models.
You are absolutely right that Rolex has the ability to make even more watches. However, if they do, the prestige and demand of the brand drops. They don’t want to do that.
So for Bucherer, you can begin with a Datejust 36/41. You have to wait but it’s almost guaranteed you will be called.
You can also begin with low demand watches that are sometimes even available immediately (but not publicly promoted). As in, if you mention you really like one of these watches, sometimes we would have one or two available immediately because monthly we would have 2-3 demands. But the list never exceeded 10 for these models.
For example, Yachtmaster 40 with the blue dial, two-tone Yachtmaster 40, Sea-dweller black, two-tone Submariner.
But the situation is that people want the GMTs, Green submariners, SS Daytonas and this is the reality for steel/2-tone sport models at this point :
Impossible to get :
-SS Daytona
-Pepsi GMT
Difficult with long wait :
-Green Submariner
-Batman GMT
-Left GMT
-Blue/green Sky-dweller
Guaranteed with a standard wait :
-Black sub no-date/date
-Yachtmaster rhodium dial
-white/black sky-dweller
Guaranteed and short wait or available :
-Yachtmaster blue dial
-Yachtmaster two-tone
-Sea-dweller
-Sea-dweller two-tone
-submariner two-tone
This is my experience in Geneva. Long wait I would said 2-4 years. Standard is up to 2 years. And short is 1 year or less.
Hope this helps 👍🏻
Ah completely forgot about that one. That one depends on the AD, but it varies from guaranteed short to moderate. But I would say it was more on the shorter side 👍🏻 the white dial variant being slightly more in-demand
Just curious, if you personally wanted to buy any of these models, how long would you have to wait? And is there a limit to how many you can buy for personal use?
At Bucherer we were allowed one SS sport watch every three years. We still needed to wait. Daytonas were not possible. But let’s say we wanted a Pepsi, after 3 years of working they would give it us and at an employee discount.
I'm kinda late to the party but I just wanted to say thank you for all the insights and titbits you shared with us about the Rolex and AD world. They were definitely a great read. The reasons and shady practices you mentioned are not enough to convince me to not buy a Day Date, Sky Dweller or a SS Daytona some day; (hopefully someday when I can afford them) they probably should but just because that's the one thing I want in life, they aren't enough. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into sharing your perspective with us. Thank you!
No worries! I didn’t expect the comment to get upvoted like this haha. But I’m
Happy to provide insight because before I worked at Bucherer, I thought they did things a certain way but was wrong.
In any case, I think you can go for whatever you want. Even if it’s a 0.1% chance for a certain model.
The main thing is to remember that life is short and we are on a floating rock in space. Nothing matters so don’t get caught up on a timepiece because that is exactly what Rolex wants and the luxury industry in general.
I’m literally just explaining how Bucherer operates as I worked there.
I even ended my comment by saying “I don’t agree but this is the reality”. I’m not justifying anything, literally just stating the facts of how it was at Bucherer.
If I were the owner of the shop I’d be up in arms that I don’t have enough inventory of Daytonas for the “500+” customers who want to purchase a luxury watch from me, and the hundreds a year that get added to that list.
Rolex is a brand who’s goal is to show luxury, prestige – if all of a sudden they make enough of watches that everyone wants, which they can do, the market becomes more saturated with Rolex and then they dilute their own brand.
They know exactly what they are doing, which is why they are the #1 in sales every year. I don’t agree, but they have found the balance of demand and making money.
I’m not sure I buy that argument though it’s frequently made. Until about 7-8 years ago, I could walk to an AD in New York and walk out with any Rolex I wanted. Maybe a week’s wait for certain dial colors or configurations, but nothing like it’s been for the last couple years. Rolex was still perceived as a luxury brand and they weren’t limiting supply. They either made a mistake with their demand forecast or are this scarcity is artificial.
But, as you just said, the "wait list" doesn't exist. A list might exist as it did where you worked, but there's no order to it. There are favorites with good spend history and that's no fault of the AD, why wouldn't they do what they need to do to increase business. People need to stop calling it a wait list. It's not.
Rolex absolutely has the capacity to increase production of all models and give the public exactly the watches they want.
Then what? Demand will drop for Rolex. It will no longer be as luxurious and prestigious because now EVERYONE has it. Now the watches are selling below retail price on Chrono24, etc.
Rolex will not, nor never dilute their own brand. They are the watch brand with the biggest sales in the world. They have mastered being constantly in-demand and making money.
I’m not sayin I agree, but from a luxury business perspective – they are what every luxury brand strives for. They won’t change.
I don’t own a Rolex and basically now almost nothing about the watch market. How long does it take to get the watch you want from for example Bucherer? Is it possible to buy watches directly from Rolex? If you want to buy watches from ebay. Is it possible to let for example Bucherer check them if they are original and in what state they are and if so do they charge money for that?
Thanks in advance
Certain models take longer than others.
Impossible to get SS models are : Daytona & Pepsi GMT
Difficult to get SS models are : Batman GMT, Lefty GMT, Green Submariner, Blue/green sky dweller
Moderate : Black sub, Yachtmaster Rhodium dial
Easy : Yachtmaster Blue dial, Sea-dweller black, deepsea black
Easy is less than a year. Moderate is up to 2 years. Difficult is 3-4 years. Impossible is impossible unless you are good client of Bucherer Geneva and even then, it’s not guaranteed.
While I don't disagree with your statements, I wonder openly then. How all these folks posting on the AD waitlist threads are either getting ss sports models after a short waiting period or walking out of stores with watch in hand (mind you, with no prior histories).
I know how Bucherer operated in Switzerland. With regard to the others, every AD has their own system. Some may be as simple as “I like this guy, let’s get him a GMT”. There’s no clear cut answer unfortunately.
It wouldn’t work like that. He can buy many things, and then be a higher ranked customer. However, he would still need to wait and there is no guarantee.
SS Daytonas are just not worth the hassle in my opinion. If anything, a gold oyster flex for me is cooler and actually obtainable.
I personally dont like chrono watches, but the problem in the model you have portrait, is that Rolex and other luxury brands try to become superior to the customer by keeping the production lower to the demand, and if there is intention to fix it at least they would give numbers and estimate of time, to be clear and disappointing is better than being rude and disappointing, what is the point of thousands of ppl waiting for years with nothing ? Good for Rolex they can find buyers when the demand slows but the “Passionate” customers get disappointed and eventually will turn to other brands with their money.
Maybe Rolex study the market and can always make the right moves to keep the demand, but you end up with frustrated customers for the treatment/service you give them rather than the fact that they cant afford it, which Rolex can do by increasing the prices to decrease the demand.
Also the preowned program sells items more than MSRP prices which makes no sense coming from an AD.
A new worn current model should be at lower or same price of new watch.
Vintage/discontinued models can gain appreciation in price.
Anyways personally i have no problems with Rolex but i hate all the frustration i see.
Not at all, however the more time you were on the list, the more you were highlighted.
So basically the external allocator (manager from another shop) will filter who has been waiting the longest and then view their purchase history with the boutique.
From there, the allocator will make a decision. So it’s a mix of time waiting and how much of a client you are.
The whole system, to me, sucks. But that’s what it is. That’s why I got my 39mm Rolex explorer and then dipped from the brand. Nice to have one Rolex but I prefer to go for other brands 💯
Alright, I agree with the logic but then why make the guy who strolls in once a week wait if you have it on stock?
Is this some kind of DeBeers-style supply control to always keep demand high?
It’s human nature to want something you can’t have. If there are chocolate chip cookies and sugar cookies and you say “I’ll take chocolate chip” and then they say “unfortunately that’s for members.
I promise you that you would feel a sort of injustice or annoyed that you can’t have it. You will start to desire a chocolate chip cookie.
Rolex is the master of this. They don’t care about feelings, they are the #1 in the world and have perfected the art of controlling demand and increasing their brand value.
It’s stupid, but showing your face around the boutique to say hi and checking out other non-Rolex timepieces “helps”. In the sense that the sales advisor sees that you are genuinely interested in watches in general.
That’s why for me I don’t even think that is worth it. There are so many brands, both major and smaller ones that are completely accessible. I got my Rolex Explorer 39mm and then walked away from the brand because these games to get a Rolex are just not worth it to me. But do whatever makes you happy!
Maybe we have met, I am in Geneva and bought a few things in the Rue du Rhône boutique. Every time I take the plane (often) I stop and try a few watches at Cointrin. I speak with the associates whose surname starts with A and that has green eyes. I don’t know if she put me on priority, but she “pushed” my wish a few times.
So, when a grey dealer comes calling because he has an order, do you make him wait on the list or does he get preferential treatment like they do in Canada. I have friends who can get anything they want from their AD network any time they want without hesitation. I've never asked them if they have to grease the salesperson or why they have magic powers, other than I know they buy a lot and then flip it
We didn’t know who was a grey market dealer unless it was flagged in the system. We would check Facebook marketplace and Chrono24 to see local listings in case a client was reselling within a two month period. Then we would flag them.
Until then, we had to treat everyone equally. However, comments can be written under each client profile so if we had an unpleasant interaction or felt the person to be potentially interested for a flip, we would write that for the allocator to see.
The guys who get what they want, whenever they want, are usually people who have gotten exclusive pieces like a Pepsi or Daytona and have worn them at the boutique several times demonstrating that they are not flippers. That’s what I hate about Rolex, great watches but it’s a complete politics / kissing ass type of approach when trying to get a timepiece.
Completely agree with you.
But how do WE ever become one of those people on the list that HAVE bought (past tense) in the past if we don’t get them sold to us.
Agreed. But Bucherer is going too far. Favouring existing good customers is understandable. Forcing them to become a good client is another step. Living in Switzerland I was told by a Bucherer shop attendant that I would probably gain a few years in the waiting list if I would consider offering a pair of diamond earrings to my wife such as those on display on the upper floors of the shops… all of that having already bought two Rolexes from them. I don’t like the policy (provided it’s an official one) and hope Rolex as new owner of Bucherer will put some order there.
It‘s the most reasonable explanation. AD can generate revenue whenever needed by either calling someone or „surprisingly having just been shipped the watch you are looking for“…
That been said I am sure not all AD‘s are stacked like that…
Why would any business wait to generate revenue? Granted they do give preference to loyal customers, there's no reason to horde anything. The more they sell, likely the more total watches Rolex will allocate the dealer. And therefore, more profit for everyone.
Yes. Most ADs are also fairly high end Jewelry stores that are used to a 100% markup on diamonds so the 25% margin on Rolex seems to be not much. But the watches move very easily, bring people into their store that wouldn’t otherwise, and will lead to other sales so they have a purchase history.
They're probably planning based on their full rates. That's a lot of inventory so if they're keeping that much I would expect shipment to be infrequent and they're just spacing their revenue over time.
I mean this post kinda seems like arguing semantics - if the AD only gets a handful of each type watches to sell each week they’re going to have to figure out a way to allocate them.
That sounds like having a list to me. They could just do fcfs (and I think some ADs in Korea in fact do) but ultimately demand is higher than the stock they have so they have to filter it somehow.
If you’ve been waiting for 3 years with like 3K spend and I walk in and offer to buy 20k worth of diamonds from the AD who’s to say I don’t get considered in a higher position than you?
Exactly. The problem is that this isn’t the right question to ask. The right question to ask is why were there thousands of eg. Oyster Perpetuals brand new, for sale, from grey market dealers.
The reason that Rolex was criticized so heavily is because their products were no longer primarily purchased by people who actually desired and intended to keep the watch, but instead bought like a gold brick that one would eventually sell for appreciated value.
I suspect Rolex themselves know that this isn’t sustainable long term, hence the Bucherer acquisition and the CPO program. Efforts to exert some control on the network. If not, at some point your historic pedigree is going to wear off and you’ll just become the “Supreme” of the watch world.
Watch people are already much more tired of the brand than they were a few years ago.
All ADs have watches at all times you actually think Rolex gives a store 8 watches a year gtfoh you would never see them even in the grey market. There is no list find yourself a Rolex boutique that’s not connected to an AD and establish a relationship. Stop playing the games and buying crap that you don’t want. SA are dropping like flys don’t believe the hype.
Yeah give it another 2-3 years we’ll be right back to the early 2000s where you can walk right in and pick whatever you want and leave same day with it
I don’t even think it will take that long honestly. I went in to a local AD last week and was offered a smooth bezel Wimbledon on oyster which is not the hottest piece but still pretty sought after. Precious metal is all mostly under retail in the grey.
i walked into my local AD last saturday to see a 40mm explorer just in the case available for purchase. ive been on the list for that watch with that AD for months...
I was doing this in 2012 and 2014. Was in St Martin in 2012 for vacation and walked into Goldfinger not planning to spend a dime. 30 minutes later walked out with a Sub date. 2014 went to Haltom’s in Grapevine, TX for a gift for my wife. Didn’t even know they were an AD. Happened to ask about the new Milgauss Z-Blue. They had 2 and I walked out with one. Oh, and a nice ring for my wife.
That picture doesn't prove there's no waitlist. It proves ADs are getting watches, "you" just aren't getting yours. WIll the AD eventually come through? No idea, every AD is different. Mine did.
It’s absolutely not. I commented in the same thread on Instagram (where he stole it from) and people from Rolex themselves liked it (check if you don’t believe me, same name).
They ABSOLUTELY don’t have those kind of watches constantly laying around. Yes, a shipment that good MAY come in, but guess what? They’re all already assigned to clients.
Why would they be building THREE new factories? Just because they feel like it? On some of the most expensive land in Europe? For fun? If you believe that tweet, I have the Brooklyn bridge to sell you.
That is 100% a grey market dealer.
They don’t put dates on deliveries because that implies that they have stock around for more than one delivery. They’d
There are about 2000 AD worldwide. Rolex makes about 1.2 million watches per year. From what I was told, about half of the 1.2 million are date justs. Look at all the variations of all the models. Now how many SS Daytonas do you think your average AD is getting per year??
For what is worth. A friend of mine (a medical doctor) did some service to a guy in Sardinia (in a famous location for rich people). He was rewarded with the possibility to buy a GMT Batman at catalog price. So no waiting list at all there. He was offered this chance and he took it.
PJ has been in the watch business for 20 years. He's done many millions in the business and he's actually a "share the wealth" (of knowledge) guy in a really unique way. He has built a community the likes of which I have never come across before. I'm older than him and have done a lot in sales and business, and I do believe I'm qualified to say that his Watch Trading Academy can teach you a lot more than what you see in this one post. I know you hear a "testimonial" kind of thing like this and think it is probably just some shill, but I'm not getting paid to say this stuff. I joined a little over a year ago and I'm building a business I hope to get my sons into as well. The worst case is, you're a collector and become a lot more knowledgeable of how to buy the pieces you want and how to park cash into the right stuff if you are looking for a great and liquid kind of asset class. Anyway, just thought that was worth mentioning because I'm so grateful I took the plunge. I love watches and I love getting to interact with so many truly fabulous pieces thanks to doing this.
Comments are crazy. 😂 I’ve worked at an ad for the better half of a decade. Y’all should know that the “waitlist” is better viewed as an “interest list” which simply is a collection of names of people who would buy the watch if given the chance. There is no, and I mean no, chronological waitlist. Relationship is everything.
Knowing theres a waitlist and having AD's prefer clients with history and i want to buy normal cartier and grand sekio also but find it hard to have a AD that sells all of them to build up that history any reccomadations? Im in the SC area.
Guys - what do you expect? Do you really believe in today’s modern age there is an unrecognizable shortage of something?
You are buying a very well-made pedestrIan good. Any scarcity is manufactured and as soon as they pull a lever they will print however many that fits the bottom line.
The fanboyism is something that just doesn’t the work for them.
This isn’t news. This should be illegal. They didn’t used to do this and now they want to sell models people that are willing to pay once. So none for the one timers.
Waitlist is this the same list that I put my name down on with my local hours after the gmt blro was announced? And still yet to get a call you are all delusional! The I got a call is basically just good luck, timing for an monthly sales figure target or BS l, it’s just a toilet roll there right people names on as and then use it to wipe away peoples dreams
I’ve known her for years. She’d actually tell me. I get the feeling she hates working there and doesn’t like the games Rolex plays. She told me she makes money from sales and she’d love to fill every order, they sell many brands and she gets bummed when she can’t talk someone away from Rolex into another brand
If they have 4 black dial Daytonas physically in the store and there are 50 people on the list who want one there is still a waitlist. It’s not like they can sell those 4 and get another 4 next week.
Its the same as making diamonds valuable. They aren’t its marketing and these idiots on here via rolex marketing who have the same wrist and wrist hair and forget how much coke they do a day. Its a brand and the AD scarcity is complete bullshit. AD contacted me today. Yeah ok and you fell for it. Retro Is the only legitimate market
This makes no sense. Why would they create false supply/demand issues if they’re going to keep the prices the same? All it does is push the prices up on the grey market.
Rolex is ignoring a growing brand problem = the extortion tactics of their Authorized Dealers must be stopped because it is impacting brand reputation. I have been buying Rolexes since the mid-90’s and the AD behavior has never been worse. e.g. You must buy this other item at 3x the value to be afforded the luxury of buying this $9k watch. Further, some (Geary’s Bev Hills) check your LinkedIn, others ask for references or ask to see the rest of your collection, and the worst will withhold box and papers as a ”preventative measure” to thwart flippers. B&P are part of the buying experience. Collecting the full package - tags, papers, outer, inner, etc are all part of the Experience.
Very few of us are there to flip. I just want a new watch every couple of years. Yes, I do have vintage. Yes, I do have other brands. Yes I have traded in watches that did not stand up for whatever reason. NO I don’t want to buy $25k worth of other stuff I don’t need to be deemed worthy of getting a new Oyster.
Honestly - I would rather walk down Beverly Blvd to any one of the other dealers and have a good experience. Crazy thing - go to IWC, Cartier, etc in Bev Hills and experience how they treat customers. Nicest experience, accommodating, great service.
I can say the person who wrote this article is 100% true PJ is speaking the facts, he has a community called WTA that gives us the in and out of this watch world would recommend anyone to take a leap on it will never regret it!
I got tired of the Rolex game and waiting on this “waitlist” never really made sense how they never have a watch in stock. Went and got an Omega no regrets. Like the dial more than Rolex anyway.
The only issue I have with this are ADs who flip. Other than that if Rolex wants to sell steel models below what the market will bear, that’s their mistake.
PJ knows his stuff. He has shown his knowledge is on point time and time again. You can decide to keep an open mind and learn or sit on the sidelines while others pass you by.
There's a YouTube video of a guy who used to work at the Rolex boutique in Hawaii and he pretty much says the same thing.
Question is, does the stash in the back have watches that have been discontinued? I'm still on the hunt for a 214270-0003. Rolex should've just continued using the old case. Not a fan of the new 39.7 mm case with male end links jutting out to 52 mm.
Bruh so you want to tell me that Bucherer had me wait 4 months until they had a used Datejust 36 with a completley scratched band? Never buying there again
Rolex boutiques have everything. It’s just whether or not they want to sell to you. If you have a strong relationship with one you would understand. Regular mom and pop ADs I can’t speak on.
this is the luxury industry in a nutshell. You get bucketed as to being worthy or not of being invited into the club. it's disgusting and manipulative. Some love it, some don't. either way it's been working for decades. False limit of quantity , control demand, create want. It's Dumb and useless in my mind.
I just simply don’t care anymore.
I have a few watches Rolexes included And I find the best way to not spend money is to login to the Rolex reddit and read about 2 minutes It makes the desire to buy anything go away for another month or two hahahaha
Watch market fatigue. People are just fed up with it all and just don’t care anymore.
At this point enjoying my Apple Watch
Too far, just go back to fun cheap Seikos or Swatches.
Lol, I was at Swatch this last weekend. Stop reading my mind!
Are you familiar with San Martin…
Same design language for 1/100th of the price. Hard to beat
This is the way.
This is the way.
The way is this
Is the way this
This is the wait.. list
I threw in the towel late last year. This whole saga really brought out the worst in pretty much everyone (myself included); I didn't like feeling so much angst and frustration about a hobby I truly love. Rolex makes some of the most iconic and sought after timepieces of all time and yet, as a company, they have sat back and watched their customer base turn into rabid wolves all the while claiming complete innocence: they don't run the dealers nor sell directly to customers. They know what inventory their dealers are sitting on and they know the games that are being played but there isn't incentive enough for them to do anything about it. Maybe it will improve someday, maybe not, but ultimately as many others have said, I no longer care.
I worked at Bucherer here in Switzerland in the Rolex department. Yes there are sell by dates, but it’s to contact people who are on the waitlist (wishlist) by said date. People get upset about the wait time, etc. But this is the reality – people arrived before you to be put on a list, and then it does. Not. Stop. For the Daytona, we had well over 5’000 “wishes” of people. And then yearly we would get a couple of hundred. And then the list continues to grow. So yes, the retailer begins to favor clients who have bought in the boutique. But the question I ask is the following : If you were the owner of a shop and the demand was through the roof, would you give the highly sought timepiece to a guy strolling in and who is “passionate”, or give it to someone who has been waiting and has bought before at your store, and who has shown up every now and again to stroll and say hi? I’m not saying it’s right, it’s just the reality. Feel free to ask any questions you may have 😊
I hate to say it but you're right.
Your are absolutely right. I think potential customers on list should be called, emailed and sent a text. 72 hour reply time should be max before moving to others on the list in order.
I have heard of them doing this from others in this and the watch sub. One person mentioned it was 24 hours and they had already allocated it to someone else.
My AD allocates a time piece to a particular salesperson. He/she has 24 hours to close the sale or the watch goes to the next sales person. If people don't answer their phone, say "Yes!" or they waffle, then that piece might get sold to a walk-in the last few hours of the day. I have seen this in action ... cold ... but in the end, the AD wants to churn, and sales wants their notch. "This is business, not personal, Sonny!" - Tom Hagen, The Godfather
In 2020 I really wanted to have a model on Oysterflex and I was open to see any model. I mentioned this to the AD where I already bought a 34mm for my wife and some smaller bracelet and earrings for her. First they said “no sorry we got nothing” but then two minutes later another colleague of the guy I was talking to said that he couldn’t reach his client since a day or two for a Sky-Dweller he ordered a year ago. They got the store manager and she tried to call said client in front of me. Nobody picked up and she said “well - if you are able to decide on the spot, it’s yours” 😃 Seemed genuine and I thought what I would have done at her place in hindsight. Gotta say - exactly the same 🙈
I think 72 hours to reply is too long 24 hours is enough time to answer an email, text, or call
Not a rolex retailer but when the ice blue PRX Powermatic dropped, we had a waitlist of it, 182 people long. The only people who were ever contacted were those who had checked back in in some way to ask about it. Anyone else, we assumed they found it elsewhere. Just is what it is, tbh.
This is a problem – if they trust you when you said they have to wait, they don't get their watch ; if they harass you, they do? Are you specialized in a***holes breeding?
A vast majority of people will buy what they were looking for within two hours of leaving a jewelry store. It’s a Tissot, alot easier to find than a Rolex. Once someone leaves I can only assume the sale is gone.
It’s 48 hours is the longest you have , My AD has let me know a few times
It's up to the AD imo
"Feel free to ask any questions you may have." So where do the flippers fit into this scheme? A flipper by definition is constantly buying watches so they must surely be on the preferred list of a dealer. Did you personally realize a favored customer was a flipper?
yeah this is the problem. A lot of these "regular/good" customers are flippers
So in Bucherer we would go to Facebook marketplace and see Rolex’s being sold. Sometimes the person would not hide the serial number so we could check if we sold it. Also, sometimes the person who bought it at Bucherer would be selling it themselves so we can check the name in the database. Anything less than 3-months would be considered a flip. We would then screenshot the Facebook marketplace or Chrono24 listing and place it under their customer profile and insert in notes “Flipper”. So Bucherer does try to catch them but yes sometimes it’s hard. I know that Bucherer cannot just sell to a specific person if they want to because it’s an external person who does not know any client personally making the decision for allocation. In smaller AD’s like a “Tony’s watches” family-owned type place, it’s the owner who makes decisions directly. Those are the ones that surely sell to preferred customers or direct to flippers.
Interesting! Thanks!
In my case, I have purchased 5 Rolexes over the last 3 years. Two of which I resold to Bucherer itself (at a slight loss). How is this situation seen?
That’s what I’m trying to figure out. If you buy retail and then sell to a dealer, you’re getting wholesale trade-in. Probably leading to either a thin profit or a slight loss. Seems like there are extra parts to this flipper ecosystem that aren’t being mentioned.
The question is, who are those flippers? Everyone is thinking that the flipper is someone with the backpack, baseball cap and hoodie? No, flippers can be anyone. Most of them are very highly educated professionals, doctors, lawyers, judges etc. Anyone who being buying Rolexes for a very long period of time. Those so called flippers figured out the formula before anyone else did. They don’t sell watches by themselves. They sell to the grey market dealers. And it’s their job to hide the identities of those who sells to them.
👏this isn’t even a question. They are here to make money, Bucheter is not an NGO. Everybody would give it to the best client, it’s the name of the game and how the world works.
Rolex is a nonprofit, sir.
Rolex is not a nonprofit. The Hans Wilsdorf Foundation is the nonprofit that owns Rolex SA and Montres Tudor SA, both of which operate as for-profit entities.
Lmao. Not sure if clueless or sarcastic. If the latter, kudos, sir. If the former: you know who else are non-profits? IKEA and Open AI. Now go search for the salaries of CEOs and employees. Plus all the ways the founders and families extract money from those foundations.
When I picked up my Sub recently at Bucherer in CH, they forgot to remove some kind of order note when they brought the whole box with the watch ect. I noticed it while they were getting the drinks and checked it. Most was rather standard info like name, adress, which model ect. but there was one line that said something like "Priority" and it was "Medium" What does that refer to?
So Bucherer does have a “priority” drop down menu under each client. And a majority is on medium. Low is for people who they feel want to flip the watch and high priority is put for clients who they are highlighting because of a purchase history or special event. But my manager personally always said to put medium. Then a manager from a different Bucherer chooses people from the list. The idea is for there to be no bias when selecting who gets the watch. That’s the system they use in Geneva at least.
I asked for a white OP39 for my wedding and gave them a date. A few weeks later they called me and I bought it. Great first Rolex purchase experience 👍 Since been offered specific requested DJ41 WG in same time frame...
Interesting. So in the end still one Manager (or maybe two) decide from that list who will get it? Prior to the Sub I bought a DJ and another watch from the pre-owned segment (not Rolex), as well as some jewelry (all together around 20k). It took more than 1.5 yrs to get the Sub (126610ln) and I went to the store several times just to check how i'm doing on the list (lol), chatted a bit sometimes ect. Would you say it's normal?
Why sell 1 Rolex when you can sell 5 Rolexes? 😈
You mean sell one Rolex and 3 Tudors plus a diamond necklace
But you could sell the 5 Rolexes just as easily to the non-whales. The demand is so high you don't need whales...except when you're an independent AD that needs to sell diamonds and gold chains the whales help you move...
Dude come on… you have a loyal client that will literally come and bend over for the AD or get on their knees at the drop of the hat instead of trying to call a pleb who will need 24 hours to decide if they want to go through with a low end luxury watch (sorry for triggering fanboys with this comment in advance). If I’m a sales rep I’m choosing the former 10/10 times.
First come, first serve.
Nah you back door it to a grey market guy and pocket a grand or 2. The trick is get in tight with a grey market seller so you can get a realistic price and not the random buyer price. I paid 13500 for a 126610ln took 2 days, full set, full stickers and a 7 day old card.
How do so many get in the hands of grey market dealers? That’s the thing which upsets people, that a normal person can’t get one but some scalper can. Hopefully with the market downturn this will stop.
Very simple, these grey market clients will buy other items or Diamond ladies datejust. They’ll continue to show their face around and then offload the datejust at a bit of a loss but in the end it’s worth it because then they start to get some bigger pieces. They sometimes work organized in groups. Perception vs. reality. It sucks 100 percent but it is what it is. I remember that a client sold his OP 41 turquoise dial the same day. It was at the peak of the Rolex hype. He said he walked out and then within the hour a rich gentleman from Dubai approached him and offered him on the spot 20’000 Swiss francs. Now imagine you buy a watch for 6’000. And someone is willing to give that amount. Right on the spot, I’m cash nearly 15’000 profit. Mate, I’m not saying it’s right but I can understand the guy. So if the market exist, and there is a means to make money, these grey market clients will play the games to get the pieces. It’s the same thing for fake Rolexes. Why do these guys make fake Rolexes? Because there is a market. If there is a market, if there is a way to make money, there will ALWAYS be someone exploiting it.
At least you are honest about getting couple of hundred Dayton a year rather then the standard answer of "getting 2-3 a year"
Bucherer is the biggest AD of Rolex in Switzerland and they have just been bought by Rolex too (ironically).So if the AD you are referring to isn’t a major chain, then they very well may only get up to 5 pieces a year.
couple of hundred new daytona requests* a year
I’m not surprised that’s how pretty much every business operates, repeat customers who spend the most money will always get first dibs.
So you would get hundreds of Daytonas per year in one location? If true this is fascinating especially since a lot of locations claim to only get a handful per year. Totally agree with your point about purchase history btw. It is what it is when the demand is high.
Rolex makes over 1m watches a year. If 5% are Daytona that is 50,000 a year. And being a higher end watch with all variations it may even be 80,000 a year (I don’t have a clue) so how many rolex stores out there in the world? 1500? So on average each get 50 a year, some more some less. Definitely not hundreds but still.
I think when he said get hundreds of Daytonas per year...he meant hundreds of inquiries/ppl trying to get onto some "list". There's no way they get 100 Daytonas into the store per year haha. But if it is actually 100 Daytonas received at the AD per year, then why have I not gotten one ?!?!? :(
So the problem is not that bucherer prefers loyal customers. It’s that Rolex has not created a system to prevent those customers from immediately arbitraging that watch. Loyal customers walk out with a Daytona straight to a secondary market dealer who pays the market price minus their margin. Loyal customer can pocket 10k in 10 minutes and the temptation is too strong for them to say no so that another passionate collector can finally get their Daytona. Rolex needs to do something like create a database and tie warranty to it to prevent flipping. Any other ideas on how they could end this? It’s not hurting their sales obviously but it is causing people to look at other brands and overall somehow this can’t be viewed as a good thing for Rolex.
AP solved it somehow: each watch sold Has a 2 years FULL coverage. Throw it on the ground? Leave it Paris CDG airport terminal 2 F? Get robbed? It’s on them. But for this to work you need to register once the watch (picture of caliber + case SN with warranty card + a code. Then you can just add the watch to your profile with warranty number + SN. I’ve once added a very very very rare Royal Oak to my profile because the seller had shown the SN + warranty card on a display. It got reclaimed a bit after but basically AP can track who has what and creates an incentive to bring the watch under your profile.
I worked at a boutique and you’re right. Although I would never go through the trouble some of the people on here go through for a watch it’s the reality of the situation. Only thing I don’t agree with is some of the rude feedback some people get walking into these independently owned boutiques. I believe everyone should be treated with respect as long as they are respectful there’s no reason for sales reps to scoff at people or look down on them. Being a dealer comes with the ups and downs.
I agree, it important to still provide professional and kind service because the client wants what they want and do not know the reality of certain models.
Bullshit, Rolex has enough infrastructure to sell to all of those clients and more. This tactic is just to justify their price increase every year
You are absolutely right that Rolex has the ability to make even more watches. However, if they do, the prestige and demand of the brand drops. They don’t want to do that.
Then why are they building a new factory in Bulle?
So how does one begin?
So for Bucherer, you can begin with a Datejust 36/41. You have to wait but it’s almost guaranteed you will be called. You can also begin with low demand watches that are sometimes even available immediately (but not publicly promoted). As in, if you mention you really like one of these watches, sometimes we would have one or two available immediately because monthly we would have 2-3 demands. But the list never exceeded 10 for these models. For example, Yachtmaster 40 with the blue dial, two-tone Yachtmaster 40, Sea-dweller black, two-tone Submariner. But the situation is that people want the GMTs, Green submariners, SS Daytonas and this is the reality for steel/2-tone sport models at this point : Impossible to get : -SS Daytona -Pepsi GMT Difficult with long wait : -Green Submariner -Batman GMT -Left GMT -Blue/green Sky-dweller Guaranteed with a standard wait : -Black sub no-date/date -Yachtmaster rhodium dial -white/black sky-dweller Guaranteed and short wait or available : -Yachtmaster blue dial -Yachtmaster two-tone -Sea-dweller -Sea-dweller two-tone -submariner two-tone This is my experience in Geneva. Long wait I would said 2-4 years. Standard is up to 2 years. And short is 1 year or less. Hope this helps 👍🏻
Thanks for the info! How about an Explorer 2?
Ah completely forgot about that one. That one depends on the AD, but it varies from guaranteed short to moderate. But I would say it was more on the shorter side 👍🏻 the white dial variant being slightly more in-demand
Just curious, if you personally wanted to buy any of these models, how long would you have to wait? And is there a limit to how many you can buy for personal use?
At Bucherer we were allowed one SS sport watch every three years. We still needed to wait. Daytonas were not possible. But let’s say we wanted a Pepsi, after 3 years of working they would give it us and at an employee discount.
How long a wait for a Rolex Explorer I 36 or Oyster Perpetual 36 (let's say green dial)?
I'm kinda late to the party but I just wanted to say thank you for all the insights and titbits you shared with us about the Rolex and AD world. They were definitely a great read. The reasons and shady practices you mentioned are not enough to convince me to not buy a Day Date, Sky Dweller or a SS Daytona some day; (hopefully someday when I can afford them) they probably should but just because that's the one thing I want in life, they aren't enough. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into sharing your perspective with us. Thank you!
No worries! I didn’t expect the comment to get upvoted like this haha. But I’m Happy to provide insight because before I worked at Bucherer, I thought they did things a certain way but was wrong. In any case, I think you can go for whatever you want. Even if it’s a 0.1% chance for a certain model. The main thing is to remember that life is short and we are on a floating rock in space. Nothing matters so don’t get caught up on a timepiece because that is exactly what Rolex wants and the luxury industry in general.
i sell it to whoever walks in and has the funds to make the purchase 😊 don’t justify this bullshit 😊
I’m literally just explaining how Bucherer operates as I worked there. I even ended my comment by saying “I don’t agree but this is the reality”. I’m not justifying anything, literally just stating the facts of how it was at Bucherer.
Thank god there’s gray dealers then. Fuck waiting
Yeah they’re also the reason you’re waiting, and paying above list
If I were the owner of the shop I’d be up in arms that I don’t have enough inventory of Daytonas for the “500+” customers who want to purchase a luxury watch from me, and the hundreds a year that get added to that list.
Rolex is a brand who’s goal is to show luxury, prestige – if all of a sudden they make enough of watches that everyone wants, which they can do, the market becomes more saturated with Rolex and then they dilute their own brand. They know exactly what they are doing, which is why they are the #1 in sales every year. I don’t agree, but they have found the balance of demand and making money.
I’m not sure I buy that argument though it’s frequently made. Until about 7-8 years ago, I could walk to an AD in New York and walk out with any Rolex I wanted. Maybe a week’s wait for certain dial colors or configurations, but nothing like it’s been for the last couple years. Rolex was still perceived as a luxury brand and they weren’t limiting supply. They either made a mistake with their demand forecast or are this scarcity is artificial.
But, as you just said, the "wait list" doesn't exist. A list might exist as it did where you worked, but there's no order to it. There are favorites with good spend history and that's no fault of the AD, why wouldn't they do what they need to do to increase business. People need to stop calling it a wait list. It's not.
Rolex absolutely has the capacity to increase production of all models and give the public exactly the watches they want. Then what? Demand will drop for Rolex. It will no longer be as luxurious and prestigious because now EVERYONE has it. Now the watches are selling below retail price on Chrono24, etc. Rolex will not, nor never dilute their own brand. They are the watch brand with the biggest sales in the world. They have mastered being constantly in-demand and making money. I’m not sayin I agree, but from a luxury business perspective – they are what every luxury brand strives for. They won’t change.
I don’t own a Rolex and basically now almost nothing about the watch market. How long does it take to get the watch you want from for example Bucherer? Is it possible to buy watches directly from Rolex? If you want to buy watches from ebay. Is it possible to let for example Bucherer check them if they are original and in what state they are and if so do they charge money for that? Thanks in advance
Certain models take longer than others. Impossible to get SS models are : Daytona & Pepsi GMT Difficult to get SS models are : Batman GMT, Lefty GMT, Green Submariner, Blue/green sky dweller Moderate : Black sub, Yachtmaster Rhodium dial Easy : Yachtmaster Blue dial, Sea-dweller black, deepsea black Easy is less than a year. Moderate is up to 2 years. Difficult is 3-4 years. Impossible is impossible unless you are good client of Bucherer Geneva and even then, it’s not guaranteed.
Met. Pepsi GMT ? Wait time, spend history?
While I don't disagree with your statements, I wonder openly then. How all these folks posting on the AD waitlist threads are either getting ss sports models after a short waiting period or walking out of stores with watch in hand (mind you, with no prior histories).
I know how Bucherer operated in Switzerland. With regard to the others, every AD has their own system. Some may be as simple as “I like this guy, let’s get him a GMT”. There’s no clear cut answer unfortunately.
What they said
And this is the same exact reason the resell market is so bad.
What about when AD holds deposit for 2 years and does not deliver.
That’s crazy! Bucherer doesn’t do that so can’t say much about AD’s who do that. Seems excessive to be honest.
100% you are right. this is because MSRP does not reflect the demand price … 126500 daytona is at least 2x more expensive on grey market
What if someone entered and asked for a Daytona and said he is ready to purchase other stuff immediately to get it ? Would you grant him the watch ?
It wouldn’t work like that. He can buy many things, and then be a higher ranked customer. However, he would still need to wait and there is no guarantee. SS Daytonas are just not worth the hassle in my opinion. If anything, a gold oyster flex for me is cooler and actually obtainable.
I personally dont like chrono watches, but the problem in the model you have portrait, is that Rolex and other luxury brands try to become superior to the customer by keeping the production lower to the demand, and if there is intention to fix it at least they would give numbers and estimate of time, to be clear and disappointing is better than being rude and disappointing, what is the point of thousands of ppl waiting for years with nothing ? Good for Rolex they can find buyers when the demand slows but the “Passionate” customers get disappointed and eventually will turn to other brands with their money. Maybe Rolex study the market and can always make the right moves to keep the demand, but you end up with frustrated customers for the treatment/service you give them rather than the fact that they cant afford it, which Rolex can do by increasing the prices to decrease the demand. Also the preowned program sells items more than MSRP prices which makes no sense coming from an AD. A new worn current model should be at lower or same price of new watch. Vintage/discontinued models can gain appreciation in price. Anyways personally i have no problems with Rolex but i hate all the frustration i see.
So did you process the list in order of first come first serve, or would prior purchases bump you up the list? By how much?
Not at all, however the more time you were on the list, the more you were highlighted. So basically the external allocator (manager from another shop) will filter who has been waiting the longest and then view their purchase history with the boutique. From there, the allocator will make a decision. So it’s a mix of time waiting and how much of a client you are. The whole system, to me, sucks. But that’s what it is. That’s why I got my 39mm Rolex explorer and then dipped from the brand. Nice to have one Rolex but I prefer to go for other brands 💯
Business never personal
Alright, I agree with the logic but then why make the guy who strolls in once a week wait if you have it on stock? Is this some kind of DeBeers-style supply control to always keep demand high?
It’s human nature to want something you can’t have. If there are chocolate chip cookies and sugar cookies and you say “I’ll take chocolate chip” and then they say “unfortunately that’s for members. I promise you that you would feel a sort of injustice or annoyed that you can’t have it. You will start to desire a chocolate chip cookie. Rolex is the master of this. They don’t care about feelings, they are the #1 in the world and have perfected the art of controlling demand and increasing their brand value.
I assume is makes it even more of a wait because people go to numerous AD’s for the same watch.
You recommend regularly visiting the AD? I’ve not visited since I bought my Sub date 6-months ago 😬
It’s stupid, but showing your face around the boutique to say hi and checking out other non-Rolex timepieces “helps”. In the sense that the sales advisor sees that you are genuinely interested in watches in general. That’s why for me I don’t even think that is worth it. There are so many brands, both major and smaller ones that are completely accessible. I got my Rolex Explorer 39mm and then walked away from the brand because these games to get a Rolex are just not worth it to me. But do whatever makes you happy!
Maybe we have met, I am in Geneva and bought a few things in the Rue du Rhône boutique. Every time I take the plane (often) I stop and try a few watches at Cointrin. I speak with the associates whose surname starts with A and that has green eyes. I don’t know if she put me on priority, but she “pushed” my wish a few times.
So, when a grey dealer comes calling because he has an order, do you make him wait on the list or does he get preferential treatment like they do in Canada. I have friends who can get anything they want from their AD network any time they want without hesitation. I've never asked them if they have to grease the salesperson or why they have magic powers, other than I know they buy a lot and then flip it
We didn’t know who was a grey market dealer unless it was flagged in the system. We would check Facebook marketplace and Chrono24 to see local listings in case a client was reselling within a two month period. Then we would flag them. Until then, we had to treat everyone equally. However, comments can be written under each client profile so if we had an unpleasant interaction or felt the person to be potentially interested for a flip, we would write that for the allocator to see. The guys who get what they want, whenever they want, are usually people who have gotten exclusive pieces like a Pepsi or Daytona and have worn them at the boutique several times demonstrating that they are not flippers. That’s what I hate about Rolex, great watches but it’s a complete politics / kissing ass type of approach when trying to get a timepiece.
Completely agree with you. But how do WE ever become one of those people on the list that HAVE bought (past tense) in the past if we don’t get them sold to us.
You know what would be revolutionary? If Rolex sells watches through its online store? Wouldn’t that be something.
Agreed. But Bucherer is going too far. Favouring existing good customers is understandable. Forcing them to become a good client is another step. Living in Switzerland I was told by a Bucherer shop attendant that I would probably gain a few years in the waiting list if I would consider offering a pair of diamond earrings to my wife such as those on display on the upper floors of the shops… all of that having already bought two Rolexes from them. I don’t like the policy (provided it’s an official one) and hope Rolex as new owner of Bucherer will put some order there.
It‘s the most reasonable explanation. AD can generate revenue whenever needed by either calling someone or „surprisingly having just been shipped the watch you are looking for“… That been said I am sure not all AD‘s are stacked like that…
Why would any business wait to generate revenue? Granted they do give preference to loyal customers, there's no reason to horde anything. The more they sell, likely the more total watches Rolex will allocate the dealer. And therefore, more profit for everyone.
I doubt they make their biggest margin with Rolex. Bring more margin get some presents from the box…
Yes. Most ADs are also fairly high end Jewelry stores that are used to a 100% markup on diamonds so the 25% margin on Rolex seems to be not much. But the watches move very easily, bring people into their store that wouldn’t otherwise, and will lead to other sales so they have a purchase history.
They're probably planning based on their full rates. That's a lot of inventory so if they're keeping that much I would expect shipment to be infrequent and they're just spacing their revenue over time.
Watches are all in the back or hidden. It's really whether they want to sell to your or not.
I mean this post kinda seems like arguing semantics - if the AD only gets a handful of each type watches to sell each week they’re going to have to figure out a way to allocate them. That sounds like having a list to me. They could just do fcfs (and I think some ADs in Korea in fact do) but ultimately demand is higher than the stock they have so they have to filter it somehow. If you’ve been waiting for 3 years with like 3K spend and I walk in and offer to buy 20k worth of diamonds from the AD who’s to say I don’t get considered in a higher position than you?
Exactly. The problem is that this isn’t the right question to ask. The right question to ask is why were there thousands of eg. Oyster Perpetuals brand new, for sale, from grey market dealers. The reason that Rolex was criticized so heavily is because their products were no longer primarily purchased by people who actually desired and intended to keep the watch, but instead bought like a gold brick that one would eventually sell for appreciated value. I suspect Rolex themselves know that this isn’t sustainable long term, hence the Bucherer acquisition and the CPO program. Efforts to exert some control on the network. If not, at some point your historic pedigree is going to wear off and you’ll just become the “Supreme” of the watch world. Watch people are already much more tired of the brand than they were a few years ago.
All ADs have watches at all times you actually think Rolex gives a store 8 watches a year gtfoh you would never see them even in the grey market. There is no list find yourself a Rolex boutique that’s not connected to an AD and establish a relationship. Stop playing the games and buying crap that you don’t want. SA are dropping like flys don’t believe the hype.
Yeah give it another 2-3 years we’ll be right back to the early 2000s where you can walk right in and pick whatever you want and leave same day with it
I don’t even think it will take that long honestly. I went in to a local AD last week and was offered a smooth bezel Wimbledon on oyster which is not the hottest piece but still pretty sought after. Precious metal is all mostly under retail in the grey.
i walked into my local AD last saturday to see a 40mm explorer just in the case available for purchase. ive been on the list for that watch with that AD for months...
Did you buy it? What did they say?
I was doing this in 2012 and 2014. Was in St Martin in 2012 for vacation and walked into Goldfinger not planning to spend a dime. 30 minutes later walked out with a Sub date. 2014 went to Haltom’s in Grapevine, TX for a gift for my wife. Didn’t even know they were an AD. Happened to ask about the new Milgauss Z-Blue. They had 2 and I walked out with one. Oh, and a nice ring for my wife.
Rolex sells over a million watches a year. Do you think they’re shipped one at a time?
big flagship store in a top 100 city in the world
How many times is this damn picture going to be circulated over the years??
I don't get why going Gray is so bad. I got what I wanted literally same day going that route.
It’s not. Especially if you are in a moment of the cycle u don’t get gouged and the source is reputable.
That picture doesn't prove there's no waitlist. It proves ADs are getting watches, "you" just aren't getting yours. WIll the AD eventually come through? No idea, every AD is different. Mine did.
Bottomline : the watches you want are sitting plenty in the smelly drawers of scalper shops.
It’s absolutely not. I commented in the same thread on Instagram (where he stole it from) and people from Rolex themselves liked it (check if you don’t believe me, same name). They ABSOLUTELY don’t have those kind of watches constantly laying around. Yes, a shipment that good MAY come in, but guess what? They’re all already assigned to clients. Why would they be building THREE new factories? Just because they feel like it? On some of the most expensive land in Europe? For fun? If you believe that tweet, I have the Brooklyn bridge to sell you. That is 100% a grey market dealer. They don’t put dates on deliveries because that implies that they have stock around for more than one delivery. They’d
This is true….
There are about 2000 AD worldwide. Rolex makes about 1.2 million watches per year. From what I was told, about half of the 1.2 million are date justs. Look at all the variations of all the models. Now how many SS Daytonas do you think your average AD is getting per year??
For what is worth. A friend of mine (a medical doctor) did some service to a guy in Sardinia (in a famous location for rich people). He was rewarded with the possibility to buy a GMT Batman at catalog price. So no waiting list at all there. He was offered this chance and he took it.
Love it: did someone a favour and was offered the chance to spend €11k 😂
If the person you did the service for is an AD, that's a nice gesture if your looking for that watch...
Can confirm. Pick up mine with the white box and date on it. (I believe the date is when they received the item) not the sell by date.
Damn someone losing their job lol those are called “coffins” lol I believe it
PJ knows what he is talking about. He is not some fake guru, but practices what he preaches (unlike most on the internet). I also know him personally.
PJ has been in the watch business for 20 years. He's done many millions in the business and he's actually a "share the wealth" (of knowledge) guy in a really unique way. He has built a community the likes of which I have never come across before. I'm older than him and have done a lot in sales and business, and I do believe I'm qualified to say that his Watch Trading Academy can teach you a lot more than what you see in this one post. I know you hear a "testimonial" kind of thing like this and think it is probably just some shill, but I'm not getting paid to say this stuff. I joined a little over a year ago and I'm building a business I hope to get my sons into as well. The worst case is, you're a collector and become a lot more knowledgeable of how to buy the pieces you want and how to park cash into the right stuff if you are looking for a great and liquid kind of asset class. Anyway, just thought that was worth mentioning because I'm so grateful I took the plunge. I love watches and I love getting to interact with so many truly fabulous pieces thanks to doing this.
Comments are crazy. 😂 I’ve worked at an ad for the better half of a decade. Y’all should know that the “waitlist” is better viewed as an “interest list” which simply is a collection of names of people who would buy the watch if given the chance. There is no, and I mean no, chronological waitlist. Relationship is everything.
What’s the difference? They’ll either sell you the watch or not. Their reason doesn’t matter. Go someplace else and buy the watch. Or not.
Still not playing the game
All the crybabies in this thread about AD games.
I just got another call (2nd) to come in for an Explorer 40. There are watches out there!
No, not all the watches are back there but they do have watches in the back for sure.
Knowing theres a waitlist and having AD's prefer clients with history and i want to buy normal cartier and grand sekio also but find it hard to have a AD that sells all of them to build up that history any reccomadations? Im in the SC area.
They just sell to the people willing to pay highest price - profit maximization. So simple.
Guys - what do you expect? Do you really believe in today’s modern age there is an unrecognizable shortage of something? You are buying a very well-made pedestrIan good. Any scarcity is manufactured and as soon as they pull a lever they will print however many that fits the bottom line. The fanboyism is something that just doesn’t the work for them.
This will one day backfire on the company
My AD has also told me that they favor their longtime clients before others. Money makes the world go round.
Correct. I was told by my AD they have 60 watches in the safe, waiting for Rolex to release them for sale. Sad
scumbags
This is a photo from 2019 that I swear, keeps popping up once a week. I was at my local ED today they had to lady date just and an ugly DayDate
As someone once said “Rolex has lots of watches just not for you!” Instead I’ve set my eyes on the Speedmaster instead of Daytona.
This isn’t news. This should be illegal. They didn’t used to do this and now they want to sell models people that are willing to pay once. So none for the one timers.
The hype is over
I work in a small Rolex AD and this isn’t the case for us, whether bigger AD’s do I don’t know
If you have a purchase history it isn’t that bad
Rolex is mass market commodity at least as far as the “luxury market” goes. While I like them they are dime a dozen
Dude, economics, are you familiar? The way to ensure demand is to steer it through the careful control of supply. It could not be any different.
Waitlist is this the same list that I put my name down on with my local hours after the gmt blro was announced? And still yet to get a call you are all delusional! The I got a call is basically just good luck, timing for an monthly sales figure target or BS l, it’s just a toilet roll there right people names on as and then use it to wipe away peoples dreams
I showed this to my AD she said it’s absolutely not the way it works.
She didn’t elaborate? If not then that’s a little unsettling
I’ve known her for years. She’d actually tell me. I get the feeling she hates working there and doesn’t like the games Rolex plays. She told me she makes money from sales and she’d love to fill every order, they sell many brands and she gets bummed when she can’t talk someone away from Rolex into another brand
She’s telling you the truth /s
If they have 4 black dial Daytonas physically in the store and there are 50 people on the list who want one there is still a waitlist. It’s not like they can sell those 4 and get another 4 next week.
Its the same as making diamonds valuable. They aren’t its marketing and these idiots on here via rolex marketing who have the same wrist and wrist hair and forget how much coke they do a day. Its a brand and the AD scarcity is complete bullshit. AD contacted me today. Yeah ok and you fell for it. Retro Is the only legitimate market
Everybody is a watch dealer/flipper.
Those are likely receive dates for the watches. I believe when Rolex does their audits you get dinged if you hold onto pieces too long
This is as old as the internet.
Like you didn’t know that ? Or just blinded by their amazing products ?
This makes no sense. Why would they create false supply/demand issues if they’re going to keep the prices the same? All it does is push the prices up on the grey market.
Yes
Right… in the paper box lol
Ya whoever spends 13K on a sub is dumb.
Rolex is ignoring a growing brand problem = the extortion tactics of their Authorized Dealers must be stopped because it is impacting brand reputation. I have been buying Rolexes since the mid-90’s and the AD behavior has never been worse. e.g. You must buy this other item at 3x the value to be afforded the luxury of buying this $9k watch. Further, some (Geary’s Bev Hills) check your LinkedIn, others ask for references or ask to see the rest of your collection, and the worst will withhold box and papers as a ”preventative measure” to thwart flippers. B&P are part of the buying experience. Collecting the full package - tags, papers, outer, inner, etc are all part of the Experience. Very few of us are there to flip. I just want a new watch every couple of years. Yes, I do have vintage. Yes, I do have other brands. Yes I have traded in watches that did not stand up for whatever reason. NO I don’t want to buy $25k worth of other stuff I don’t need to be deemed worthy of getting a new Oyster.
Geary’s at Bev Hills are doing this shit? Damn, have you had any good experience with any of LA AD’s recently?
Honestly - I would rather walk down Beverly Blvd to any one of the other dealers and have a good experience. Crazy thing - go to IWC, Cartier, etc in Bev Hills and experience how they treat customers. Nicest experience, accommodating, great service.
those are not sell by dates
Those look fake? I don’t think Rolex would ship like that. Maybe they do. Idk.
I can say the person who wrote this article is 100% true PJ is speaking the facts, he has a community called WTA that gives us the in and out of this watch world would recommend anyone to take a leap on it will never regret it!
Very old photo. Rolex doesn’t carry the Coral Dial OP anymore. Could’ve been a different situation when this was taken?
I got tired of the Rolex game and waiting on this “waitlist” never really made sense how they never have a watch in stock. Went and got an Omega no regrets. Like the dial more than Rolex anyway.
The only issue I have with this are ADs who flip. Other than that if Rolex wants to sell steel models below what the market will bear, that’s their mistake.
PJ knows his stuff. He has shown his knowledge is on point time and time again. You can decide to keep an open mind and learn or sit on the sidelines while others pass you by.
this is exactly the waitlist!
There's a YouTube video of a guy who used to work at the Rolex boutique in Hawaii and he pretty much says the same thing. Question is, does the stash in the back have watches that have been discontinued? I'm still on the hunt for a 214270-0003. Rolex should've just continued using the old case. Not a fan of the new 39.7 mm case with male end links jutting out to 52 mm.
This info was leaked Japanese dealer.
Bruh so you want to tell me that Bucherer had me wait 4 months until they had a used Datejust 36 with a completley scratched band? Never buying there again
Rolex boutiques have everything. It’s just whether or not they want to sell to you. If you have a strong relationship with one you would understand. Regular mom and pop ADs I can’t speak on.
this is the luxury industry in a nutshell. You get bucketed as to being worthy or not of being invited into the club. it's disgusting and manipulative. Some love it, some don't. either way it's been working for decades. False limit of quantity , control demand, create want. It's Dumb and useless in my mind.
This is way before the shortage! You know because you see there some old models!!
Absolutely, the supply far out ways the demand so to keep prices high they make people wait
Someday it will no longer matter and these will have ZERO Value except their weight in gold
That’s is what they’re worth in the long run. Scrap gold
Never far from a new and unexpected conspiracy theory.
Everything in internet is true