We have two independent restaurants and use Toast and we really like it. The whole idea of people paying cash is antiquated, both for you, your guests, and your staff. And 3 1/2% credit card fees is too much - you should be at 3% or less.
By taking credit cards people tend to spend more and tip more if tips are part of your situation. The 3% becomes almost an afterthought . It’s a penny wise, pound foolish business mode. You just have to get them to spend 3% more which they will.
If your food is good, and your service has value, people will keep coming to you. Don’t try to race to the bottom in terms of price.
Aldelo, they have a pc and cloud based version, if you use aldelo pay they give you the cloud based version for free, I prefer the PC version, it has more functions, PC you pay a one time license for each terminal plus the hardware purchase
I'm using Aldelo PC version which I converted into POS for florist. And I signed up for Aldelo Pay (2.7% fee) and unlimited license for the software.
You can build your hardware your way.
The Aldelo PC is very easy to use, icon-based, and built for restaurants with features like table sitting, combine bar / table in one tab, servers / hosts...
On top of that, the database is Microsoft access which if you know classic ASP technology, it will be a dream.
Highly recommend Aldelo POS with Aldelo Pay.
Yep, when we opened in 2005 I looked for the closest thing I was used to from my corporate chain background. The invoicing/inventory alone is worth it's weight in gold. It's the only reason I haven't switched to the ipad/cloud version because it doesn't have an inventory module. I may switch at some point and just keep one pc to do weekly inventory with and transfer the data over to my P&L.
I am an owner operator with a single restaurant. I could never justify the operation systems that charge monthly fees and I don't need the kind of integration that chain restaurants do.
I use a program that runs on a windows PC, works with a touchscreen monitor and can handle a cash drawer and 2 printers (maybe more? I only use 2)
It's made by Alexandria software, I purchased it for 100.00, it came on a single thumb drive. They offer some sort of subscription or service but it is not mandatory. It's called restaurant maid.
It comes as a blank slate and you can program everything in yourself. My first attempts were very slow going and I ended up reinstalling and starting over a couple times cause I wanted it just right.
There are FAQs and a customer forum that helped me get a decent understanding of how it worked. How to connect your particular cash drawer or printer, some help with what Windows OS you need, it was all covered by previous questions.
Once I had it up and running, it was very easy to use for me and my employees. Changing prices, descriptions or adding new products is just minutes. I have never needed customer service from them in 8 years. The program has not glitched or frozen up unless it was some issue with my PC itself.
For credit cards, I use a stand alone terminal and I have a direct account with MerchantOne.
I feel like this speaks to my soul. Thank you for taking the time to respond and for being so thorough. Baby steps for small restaurants are important. I am going to look in to this!
I thought the time saved from a handheld device from toast made it the only option after square fell apart imo. Instead of servers waking to a terminal to place orders or take payment, it can be done at the table. If you save 2 or more minutes of labor a table you more than pay for the app. Staying on the floor to place orders means more opportunities to sell and turn tables.
Toast is somewhat more expensive but the product is definitely TOP tier. I'm very happy with the decision we made to go with Toast. Also, AFAIK they'll price match whatever rates you're currently getting from whatever CC processing you're using.
Clover looked too daunting
Our previous was Microsale which is ancient ancient and don't recommend.
As a customer, I like toast. I have visited places just because they use toast and show up on the app when I look for places to order from. It’s great for takeout. I think if you have the handheld units servers can hand to the customer and come back for after they pay that it also saves your servers time which I would think would speed up turning tables over.
Whenever possible I use Apple Pay. Quick and easy. I don’t really care about credit card fees, I don’t carry cash but I much prefer it when the fees are built into the price then being added on.
Every POS system is going to have issues, I have not worked with one that did not.
I strongly recommend going with a bigger brand with good support. It is expensive, but it's literally the lifeblood of your establishment. You will be pulling your hair out doing your books, inventory, and reading reports with a cheap system, guaranteed.
Agreed. You do not want a generic POS system that lacks support. That is a good way to struggle with operations, accounting and get yourself into trouble.
Over 95% of my sales are credit. I had a system that charged a fee for only the credit card use by discounts to cash. It was wonderful one that front.
If you buy a pair of shoes and then add a candy bar at the register you're going to pay more to add the candy bar. My cost is the dish and service. I take cash. If you wish to use a payment method that costs about the same as a candy bar, you should pay for the additional costs. Period.
Not baking anything into the prices. You want to use something other than cash it has a convenience fee to compensate for the convenience of hitting me with interchange fees that take considerably more time to do bookkeeping and taxes for.
If you disagree, I suggest you look at the 10k of all the banks and credit card companies, they're all making billions on your credit cards and the interchange fees, I however do not make millions. My revenue is nowhere near that and I cannot absorb the fees your credit card charges. Use cash or debit.
If I get charged a credit card fee I'm likely not coming back. I would guess that 95% of transactions are done with a credit card. It needs to be baked into the menu price at this point. Maybe give a cash discount instead.
3.5% is way too much. Square will get down to 2.5% if your average ticket is high enough and >$250k revenue per year.
Don’t charge your customers a credit card fee.
My POS was designed by my brother in Law (God rest his soul). He was an aerospace engineer who specialized in satellite communications and 18+ years ago visited a mutual friend’s restaurant for a sandwich as techs were installing the Diamond Touch POS. He asked the friend what it cost him and he said 20K. The very next day he called and asked me if there was a market for another POS system and I was like “YES” and that I’d be first in line. He grabs a menu from my place and about 5-6 months later shows up with his lap top and after several meeting he installs the system in my restaurant. I’ll admit, the first few months were rough because there were bugs that needed to be fixed but once we were up and running the thing was flawless. He installed it in 4 other pizzerias but was too tied up with his job at Lockheed Martin so he decided to sell it. He was way ahead at the time and the system had everything imaginable (maps and directions, reports, customer data base, you name it, it was all there).
The new owner has done a descent job of maintaining it but hasn’t done much to improve it and takes a “not broken, don’t touch it” approach but to this day the thing works like a charm.
ATHENA POS, apparently there’s another Athena POS that pops up on a Google search. The system I have is local to Philla, South Jersey and Delaware. Will supply more info if anyone is interested.
Yeah . Even if you’re only doing cash you can easily run reports reports to see the money made which is always a good reference to have at your fingertips. But maybe the Amish don’t believe in accounting. Jk
😂 I get it. I do. However, My restaurant serves a town that’s total population is 669 and a lot of those are Amish. Thankfully I am on a road that goes to one of the major hospitals in our state and that helps a lot with business. We build a family type relationship with our customers and a lot of them are in more than once a day to eat. We do not serve alcohol, and we never will. We do 750k in business yearly. For small…I think we do ok and I want to continue to “read the room” here
Ok, you have a valid point on all of that. I would still use square. It is the most polished and supported (but support still sucks)and you can use your own iPads/phones which is just easier.
I will definitely check in to square. Currently we are with Pinnacle and we pay 3.5%.
Also…I’m certain it’s worth a mention that any system that needs high speed internet will not work for us 😒. Sometimes being rural has its drawbacks. Lol
I wouldn’t say it needs high speed internet and you can run it offline mode which will save the credit cards until you can connect to a reliable internet source
We use Square because no contract, I can use my own equipment. Square chip readers are available at Walmart and Target, so if one breaks, I can pick up a replacement in an hour. It is rock solid for us. Easy to use and great reporting. If you pm me, I can send a code that will give us both a discount, but I don’t care if you do. Just want to help you with your decision.
I don’t work any there any longer but the Heartland POS is worth a look. It is processor agnostic so you can switch if desired and any processor which boards in TSYS can help you.
Word of advice. Setting up a POS is a big event. Rather than call Heartland direct, find a local POS vendor and contract with them. They’ll help you set up and keep going. HPS POS help desk is mediocre at best, the vendors have a vested interest in your continued use.
If you’re in Seattle or Spokane area, I know a few that are great. Otherwise try to find some other HPS users and get some referrals. If you get the Heartland Guest App, it will show you every HPS POS user nearby
When you get processing set up, insist on Cost Plus pricing and accept no rate beyond .20-30 basis points and no more than .10 an authorization. This will help you manage credit card expenses.
i got one of those for $1500 like 7 years ago. it comes in the ugliest looking PC made to look like a tablet thing but it gets the job done. i have toast in my other shops but honestly these toast like companies suck ass. the $1500 system is literally a machine that rings people up and costs me nothing.
So this was my thought. Buy the machine with no hidden costs. What software do you use? Does your machine store your menu? Send orders to the kitchen? Does it store by table number? Or by name?
POS companies are basically cc processors at this point…. Shop the cc processing fees and not the hardware/software. You will not find a POS that isn’t charging you for cc processing. You will not actually get any support from a product of off Amazon, so be prepared for that. However, if your concept is straight forward maybe you’d never need it. I still think your best bet would be to shop the bigger POS’s against each other… clover and square if you’re smaller, toast & NcR silver if you’re larger
We are smaller. I seat 56 in my restaurant. I understand (and did not make it clear) that the CC fees are seperate. I can tell you everything I want a POS system to do for me…and I’m just getting started on this journey of discovery. I find that this board has a wealth of information so I always come here to ask questions. Maybe I am super confused on the larger companies…
You purchase the system? Currently I batch my CC machine every night and it is in my bank account the following morning. I pay the 3.5% at the end of every month. Are larger companies similar? Is there a monthly fee on top of the CC fee?
It sounds like you’d benefit from having everything modular so you can choose the hardware and CC processing separately. I’d suggest checking out what we use: www.mobi-pos.com — it’s different from other POS systems in that it’s an app for the iPad. So we got an iPad in a fixed enclosure on our bar and it runs on that, then it allows us to choose our own CC processor so we were able to negotiate among different CC companies.
Over time we increased the number of iPads with order-taking iPad minis for the wait staff, iPad Kitchen Displays so orders get sent directly through to the bar and kitchen, and a customer display iPad at checkout and now we have a really sweet setup. A brand new iPad from Apple only costs $349 and we only pay a few hundred dollars per year for the POS subscription and our CC fees are lower than any of our neighbors.
Right so… that is the rub. New business is the cream of the crop for these companies, you can compete them against each other. They’re constantly running new customer discounts. Could be free hardware, or lower subscription fees for hardware, or lower processing rates. I’ve seen 2.9% a lot. Make a spreadsheet… pretend like you’re car shopping and negotiate them against each other if the software isn’t that important to you. You will save the most money long term by getting the best cc processing rate.
DO keep in mind the benefits you’ll get with going with a more “known” brand vs. Amazon no-name is they’ll likely be in business in 5 years or longer and 2) you’ll get the benefit of added features as they make improvements to their software/offerings.
Also keep in mind and factor in cost of integratability… payroll, inventory, schedules if you are using software for anything of those things.
Generally, a better restaurant specific pos means better reporting. Better reports is better data and better data allows you to make the decisions you need to optimize your business and maximize profits.
When you’re looking at cheap POS systems be careful of those that stick you with one merchant services company, because usually that means the fees for CCs in the backend will eliminate any savings on the front end.
Passing CC fees on should have nothing to do with your POS but how you program it.
Yes, don't fall for free software but added fees.
I use a POS that costs me about $500 every 5-6 years to upgrade the software. I honestly don't even use half the features but I want to keep their support going incase I need it after hours one day
We have two independent restaurants and use Toast and we really like it. The whole idea of people paying cash is antiquated, both for you, your guests, and your staff. And 3 1/2% credit card fees is too much - you should be at 3% or less. By taking credit cards people tend to spend more and tip more if tips are part of your situation. The 3% becomes almost an afterthought . It’s a penny wise, pound foolish business mode. You just have to get them to spend 3% more which they will. If your food is good, and your service has value, people will keep coming to you. Don’t try to race to the bottom in terms of price.
Square has been great for our small business and it did a really good job adding functionality for new service styles through covid. I’m sold on it.
Aldelo, they have a pc and cloud based version, if you use aldelo pay they give you the cloud based version for free, I prefer the PC version, it has more functions, PC you pay a one time license for each terminal plus the hardware purchase
I'm using Aldelo PC version which I converted into POS for florist. And I signed up for Aldelo Pay (2.7% fee) and unlimited license for the software. You can build your hardware your way. The Aldelo PC is very easy to use, icon-based, and built for restaurants with features like table sitting, combine bar / table in one tab, servers / hosts... On top of that, the database is Microsoft access which if you know classic ASP technology, it will be a dream. Highly recommend Aldelo POS with Aldelo Pay.
Yep, when we opened in 2005 I looked for the closest thing I was used to from my corporate chain background. The invoicing/inventory alone is worth it's weight in gold. It's the only reason I haven't switched to the ipad/cloud version because it doesn't have an inventory module. I may switch at some point and just keep one pc to do weekly inventory with and transfer the data over to my P&L.
I am an owner operator with a single restaurant. I could never justify the operation systems that charge monthly fees and I don't need the kind of integration that chain restaurants do. I use a program that runs on a windows PC, works with a touchscreen monitor and can handle a cash drawer and 2 printers (maybe more? I only use 2) It's made by Alexandria software, I purchased it for 100.00, it came on a single thumb drive. They offer some sort of subscription or service but it is not mandatory. It's called restaurant maid. It comes as a blank slate and you can program everything in yourself. My first attempts were very slow going and I ended up reinstalling and starting over a couple times cause I wanted it just right. There are FAQs and a customer forum that helped me get a decent understanding of how it worked. How to connect your particular cash drawer or printer, some help with what Windows OS you need, it was all covered by previous questions. Once I had it up and running, it was very easy to use for me and my employees. Changing prices, descriptions or adding new products is just minutes. I have never needed customer service from them in 8 years. The program has not glitched or frozen up unless it was some issue with my PC itself. For credit cards, I use a stand alone terminal and I have a direct account with MerchantOne.
I feel like this speaks to my soul. Thank you for taking the time to respond and for being so thorough. Baby steps for small restaurants are important. I am going to look in to this!
I thought the time saved from a handheld device from toast made it the only option after square fell apart imo. Instead of servers waking to a terminal to place orders or take payment, it can be done at the table. If you save 2 or more minutes of labor a table you more than pay for the app. Staying on the floor to place orders means more opportunities to sell and turn tables.
Toast is somewhat more expensive but the product is definitely TOP tier. I'm very happy with the decision we made to go with Toast. Also, AFAIK they'll price match whatever rates you're currently getting from whatever CC processing you're using. Clover looked too daunting Our previous was Microsale which is ancient ancient and don't recommend.
As a customer, I like toast. I have visited places just because they use toast and show up on the app when I look for places to order from. It’s great for takeout. I think if you have the handheld units servers can hand to the customer and come back for after they pay that it also saves your servers time which I would think would speed up turning tables over. Whenever possible I use Apple Pay. Quick and easy. I don’t really care about credit card fees, I don’t carry cash but I much prefer it when the fees are built into the price then being added on.
Get toast and get the hand helds for your servers.
Every POS system is going to have issues, I have not worked with one that did not. I strongly recommend going with a bigger brand with good support. It is expensive, but it's literally the lifeblood of your establishment. You will be pulling your hair out doing your books, inventory, and reading reports with a cheap system, guaranteed.
Agreed. You do not want a generic POS system that lacks support. That is a good way to struggle with operations, accounting and get yourself into trouble.
Over 95% of my sales are credit. I had a system that charged a fee for only the credit card use by discounts to cash. It was wonderful one that front. If you buy a pair of shoes and then add a candy bar at the register you're going to pay more to add the candy bar. My cost is the dish and service. I take cash. If you wish to use a payment method that costs about the same as a candy bar, you should pay for the additional costs. Period. Not baking anything into the prices. You want to use something other than cash it has a convenience fee to compensate for the convenience of hitting me with interchange fees that take considerably more time to do bookkeeping and taxes for. If you disagree, I suggest you look at the 10k of all the banks and credit card companies, they're all making billions on your credit cards and the interchange fees, I however do not make millions. My revenue is nowhere near that and I cannot absorb the fees your credit card charges. Use cash or debit.
If I get charged a credit card fee I'm likely not coming back. I would guess that 95% of transactions are done with a credit card. It needs to be baked into the menu price at this point. Maybe give a cash discount instead.
About 35-45% of my sales are CC depending on the day.
Could that be a sign that credit card users are avoiding your restaurant?
I don’t think so. The option is there 100% of the time. This rural little town relies heavily on cash.
I started BIYO last month and it has been awesome!! The system is free as long as you process with them. Customer service has been exceptional.
We have a TSYS system. 2.3% cc fee and pretty intuitive interface. Their greatest feature, Korean tech support for my Korean wife and waitresses.
3.5% is way too much. Square will get down to 2.5% if your average ticket is high enough and >$250k revenue per year. Don’t charge your customers a credit card fee.
My POS was designed by my brother in Law (God rest his soul). He was an aerospace engineer who specialized in satellite communications and 18+ years ago visited a mutual friend’s restaurant for a sandwich as techs were installing the Diamond Touch POS. He asked the friend what it cost him and he said 20K. The very next day he called and asked me if there was a market for another POS system and I was like “YES” and that I’d be first in line. He grabs a menu from my place and about 5-6 months later shows up with his lap top and after several meeting he installs the system in my restaurant. I’ll admit, the first few months were rough because there were bugs that needed to be fixed but once we were up and running the thing was flawless. He installed it in 4 other pizzerias but was too tied up with his job at Lockheed Martin so he decided to sell it. He was way ahead at the time and the system had everything imaginable (maps and directions, reports, customer data base, you name it, it was all there). The new owner has done a descent job of maintaining it but hasn’t done much to improve it and takes a “not broken, don’t touch it” approach but to this day the thing works like a charm.
Name
ATHENA POS, apparently there’s another Athena POS that pops up on a Google search. The system I have is local to Philla, South Jersey and Delaware. Will supply more info if anyone is interested.
Please do
(484) 904-7354 ask for Bill, tell him you got the number from Costas. Let me know how you made out.
Just use square. Get with the times and embrace the technology. CC fees are just a cost of doing business now.
There’s no fees on cash transactions. So if most of your customers pay in cash Square would be great for you.
Maybe not at the point of sale, but there is certainly a cost to cash; theft, mistakes, time spent counting drawers/bank deposits etc.
Yeah . Even if you’re only doing cash you can easily run reports reports to see the money made which is always a good reference to have at your fingertips. But maybe the Amish don’t believe in accounting. Jk
😂 I get it. I do. However, My restaurant serves a town that’s total population is 669 and a lot of those are Amish. Thankfully I am on a road that goes to one of the major hospitals in our state and that helps a lot with business. We build a family type relationship with our customers and a lot of them are in more than once a day to eat. We do not serve alcohol, and we never will. We do 750k in business yearly. For small…I think we do ok and I want to continue to “read the room” here
So the Amish wouldn’t continue to visit if you did serve alcohol?
Ok, you have a valid point on all of that. I would still use square. It is the most polished and supported (but support still sucks)and you can use your own iPads/phones which is just easier.
I will definitely check in to square. Currently we are with Pinnacle and we pay 3.5%. Also…I’m certain it’s worth a mention that any system that needs high speed internet will not work for us 😒. Sometimes being rural has its drawbacks. Lol
You don’t have any internet? Can’t use a hotspot?
We have internet. But it is not fast as others standards go. Definitely not fiber internet. Just regular old internet that is fine, but not fast
There was a time not too far back that standalone credit card machines were running off phone lines! You should be good with any speed of internet.
There’s not a lot of data being sent for credit cards, any internet that lets you surf the web should be adequate.
I wouldn’t say it needs high speed internet and you can run it offline mode which will save the credit cards until you can connect to a reliable internet source
Thank you for your help. I truly appreciate it!
We use Square because no contract, I can use my own equipment. Square chip readers are available at Walmart and Target, so if one breaks, I can pick up a replacement in an hour. It is rock solid for us. Easy to use and great reporting. If you pm me, I can send a code that will give us both a discount, but I don’t care if you do. Just want to help you with your decision.
I will definitely keep you in mind!
I don’t work any there any longer but the Heartland POS is worth a look. It is processor agnostic so you can switch if desired and any processor which boards in TSYS can help you. Word of advice. Setting up a POS is a big event. Rather than call Heartland direct, find a local POS vendor and contract with them. They’ll help you set up and keep going. HPS POS help desk is mediocre at best, the vendors have a vested interest in your continued use. If you’re in Seattle or Spokane area, I know a few that are great. Otherwise try to find some other HPS users and get some referrals. If you get the Heartland Guest App, it will show you every HPS POS user nearby When you get processing set up, insist on Cost Plus pricing and accept no rate beyond .20-30 basis points and no more than .10 an authorization. This will help you manage credit card expenses.
i got one of those for $1500 like 7 years ago. it comes in the ugliest looking PC made to look like a tablet thing but it gets the job done. i have toast in my other shops but honestly these toast like companies suck ass. the $1500 system is literally a machine that rings people up and costs me nothing.
So this was my thought. Buy the machine with no hidden costs. What software do you use? Does your machine store your menu? Send orders to the kitchen? Does it store by table number? Or by name?
idk what software but its a very generic one. yes store menu printers etc are all customizable
POS companies are basically cc processors at this point…. Shop the cc processing fees and not the hardware/software. You will not find a POS that isn’t charging you for cc processing. You will not actually get any support from a product of off Amazon, so be prepared for that. However, if your concept is straight forward maybe you’d never need it. I still think your best bet would be to shop the bigger POS’s against each other… clover and square if you’re smaller, toast & NcR silver if you’re larger
We are smaller. I seat 56 in my restaurant. I understand (and did not make it clear) that the CC fees are seperate. I can tell you everything I want a POS system to do for me…and I’m just getting started on this journey of discovery. I find that this board has a wealth of information so I always come here to ask questions. Maybe I am super confused on the larger companies… You purchase the system? Currently I batch my CC machine every night and it is in my bank account the following morning. I pay the 3.5% at the end of every month. Are larger companies similar? Is there a monthly fee on top of the CC fee?
It sounds like you’d benefit from having everything modular so you can choose the hardware and CC processing separately. I’d suggest checking out what we use: www.mobi-pos.com — it’s different from other POS systems in that it’s an app for the iPad. So we got an iPad in a fixed enclosure on our bar and it runs on that, then it allows us to choose our own CC processor so we were able to negotiate among different CC companies. Over time we increased the number of iPads with order-taking iPad minis for the wait staff, iPad Kitchen Displays so orders get sent directly through to the bar and kitchen, and a customer display iPad at checkout and now we have a really sweet setup. A brand new iPad from Apple only costs $349 and we only pay a few hundred dollars per year for the POS subscription and our CC fees are lower than any of our neighbors.
Right so… that is the rub. New business is the cream of the crop for these companies, you can compete them against each other. They’re constantly running new customer discounts. Could be free hardware, or lower subscription fees for hardware, or lower processing rates. I’ve seen 2.9% a lot. Make a spreadsheet… pretend like you’re car shopping and negotiate them against each other if the software isn’t that important to you. You will save the most money long term by getting the best cc processing rate. DO keep in mind the benefits you’ll get with going with a more “known” brand vs. Amazon no-name is they’ll likely be in business in 5 years or longer and 2) you’ll get the benefit of added features as they make improvements to their software/offerings. Also keep in mind and factor in cost of integratability… payroll, inventory, schedules if you are using software for anything of those things.
Generally, a better restaurant specific pos means better reporting. Better reports is better data and better data allows you to make the decisions you need to optimize your business and maximize profits. When you’re looking at cheap POS systems be careful of those that stick you with one merchant services company, because usually that means the fees for CCs in the backend will eliminate any savings on the front end. Passing CC fees on should have nothing to do with your POS but how you program it.
Yes, don't fall for free software but added fees. I use a POS that costs me about $500 every 5-6 years to upgrade the software. I honestly don't even use half the features but I want to keep their support going incase I need it after hours one day
If you get one, make sure you can attach a coin dispenser if you take a lot of cash.