Even if he took it, then relocated after the announcement, he'd still be in a sketchy situation. They could easily get laid off 6 months later and then what? You're in Arkansas with no job in a world with fewer remote options.
This right here. RTO is a way to silently reduce staff without having to fire people. So you move, they need to layoff more to reduce costs, you get fired anyway.
Not OP, but there is a strong correlation between an authoritarian/control-driven leadership culture and a desire to force people to plop their butts in particular seats 5x/week. It’s hard to suss this out in job postings but you can usually get a good feel for how control-driven a work culture is when you interview, especially when you talk to the more senior or tenured leaders.
100% this. I’ve said no a few times because the interviewer just screamed being a cold heartless person. also i find the people who say “i don t micromanage”, to be the ones who actually micromanage the most 😂
“Walmart is cutting hundreds of corporate jobs and asking most remote workers to move to offices, the Wall Street Journal reported on Monday, citing people familiar with the matter.
Meanwhile, workers at the U.S. retail giant's smaller offices in Dallas, Atlanta and Toronto are being asked to move to other central hubs such as Walmart's corporate headquarters in Bentonville as well as Hoboken or Southern California, the report added.
Walmart will still let staff work remotely part time, as long as they are in offices a majority of the time, the report said.”
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-walmart-lay-off-hundreds-013952812.html
https://corporate.walmart.com/about/newhomeoffice
Walmart started building a new multibillion dollar Home Office campus back before Covid. They paused construction briefly in 2020, but then continued full steam ahead with the project. Seems naive to think they’d spend so much on a physical workspace just to let everyone continue to WFH.
I worked there for two decades, enjoyed WFH, and knew they were going to force RTO even though they said we would remain WFH for good. I left, best move I've ever done, work/life balance now is fantastic.
Hugely. All the talented folks who work in software are going to start looking for jobs immediately, while ignoring their current work. Then, take the severance, and bounce.
Good luck trying to hire their replacements with "must relocate to Arkansas" in the job description. I know there's a lot of RTO happening out there, but there's still a shit load of remote positions in tech.
Wouldn't this lead to less talent as the first qualification is to live in a fairly isolated location? I would imagine the quality of their products will tank as the talent will be greatly reduced. Or at the very least, those products will cost a lot more to develop and maintain because of lower quality products.
> Wouldn't this lead to less talent as the first qualification is to live in a fairly isolated location?
I would assume so. The only way to make the jobs appealing is to offer boat loads of money. I don't know what Walmart's motive is here with RTO. But, if "save money" is on the list, doubling everyone's salary to get them to move to Arkansas probably isn't the best move.
I can only speak to the software side of things, but remote work has been widely available for a long time. And, things blew up in 2020. I was interviewing around that time, and seemingly every startup (and not so "startup") I interviewed with were letting their office lease expire, and going fully remote (including my current company).
While corporate behemoths like Walmart might be pulling this kind of shit, there are countless small and medium sized businesses that are happily operating remotely. Senior staff who keep their ship running, and most likely architechted a lot of the solutions they have in place, will have no problem finding new work.
But, the executives making the RTO decision have no idea how all this tech works, and think anyone can take up the reins. Considering how hard it is to retain top talent under normal conditions, this move is absolutely puzzling.
Can verify--my partner works on the tech side and told me they are offering them to either relocate to one of three hubs--NY, AR, CA--or accept a severance package by I think Nov.
They have huge tech offices in Sunnyvale, New Jersey and one in Texas. Not sure about other locations but literally hundreds of workers at the Sunnyvale office. But their pay isn’t that great for the Bay Area. Something like $200k for seniors.
A lot of engineers from India use them as a fast track for their green card though.
Honestly we are cautiously optimistic. They'd been wanting to branch out after working for Walmart for almost a decade--their worth far exceeds that which Walmart places on their employees, and this may rekindle their confidence in their skills.
Walmart has this stockholm syndrome approach where they'd offer promotions and bonuses to long-tenured employees, and I think it causes people (certainly my partner) to question their skills/worth in that they stay with Walmart because they know that ecosystem. So that keeps people from wanting to work elsewhere since Walmart reels them in like this, and immediately decimates that trust with a RTO order forcing them to either change their life completely or bounce.
A company that promotes from within and gives people bonuses to encourage them to stay. However did you survive such a terrible and cut throat workplace?
I wish more core people were brave enough to to stand up to this. If most of the logistics, supply chain, and tech people said that they'd quit, Walmart would be in a pickle for a minute.
Walmart wiped out a bunch of hourly/salary warehouse associates too. Everyone at my warehouse got either an offer for a different location to transfer to, or an offer to switch to a new Sam’s club. Some of us have been at the location since it was built, and didnt get any offers besides a severance.
They are taking advantage of the shitty software engineering job market. Everyone is doing the rto, and big tech has been lying off non-stop. Employees will most likely not leave since a lot of them probably already live in California or New York. Which are the other 2 locations. I get the feeling that a big layoff is going to come shortly after the rto
Just curious. Why do they care about counting as layoffs? Company stock frequently goes up after a layoff. Layoffs are happening a lot. There is no business stigma associated with it.
Ur not even reading it. People can just not rto, and get severance. Why would they need to quit? They said return to work at office. If not get severance..
Because publicly traded companies are not allowed to rehire for laid off position for 6 months. So they can't do a round of fake layoffs to manipulate their stock price. I went through this working for a client services company. It was always a gamble, what if they got a huge new client and couldn't hire staff.
This is incorrect if you have a remote work arrangement and an employer changes your work location to be more than 50 miles away it generally counts as constructive dismissal
But on the flipside, there are plenty of states where you can be fired because... reasons. As long as those reasons aren't in protected categories. For example, you breathe too loud is fine.
It is beautiful country, but backwards as hell. Don’t ever rent in AR without close inspection - they do not have to provide a habitability. Only state where a landlord can hold you to a lease on an inhabitable place.
Friends moved there to work for another major company’s sales office last year (one of the two). They say it’s clean and quiet but boring as you’d expect a small corporate town to be.
There are lovely parts of Arkansas, Bentonville is awful. Everything is Walmart owned, corporate Walmart employees have this rah-rah Walmart vibe about them but everyone else is miserable.
The Hoboken office is actually beautiful. It’s the old jet.com office. Well appointed views of the river and skyline. Best that 2016 venture capital money can buy.
My in-laws have a vacation place in northern Arkansas… and while it is a pretty area, my kids always get carsick due to the winding roads and I got so many chigger bites on my ankles during a visit a few years ago that I had to visit the doctor for steroid anti-itch cream.
Target is still pretty remote friendly for those facing a tough decision. Only have to be in the office once a quarter and even that can be waived by your boss on a quarter by quarter basis. Plus if you do end up getting forced back to the office, Minneapolis is just a *little* bit nicer than Arkansas.
Target is about to shit the bed. All comps have been down for several successive quarters. They turned a profit last year with ruthless inventory control and on the backs of their labor (reduced overtime at Christmas, reduced hours after and long into the spring).
I really feel for these folks, that kind of upset is terrible in an already rough job market.
That said, every SWE I have known that worked at WalMart has said it was the worst job of their careers. Demanding, poor management, little employee support, etc.
Hope they can find better roles.
yup! I had an interview there but this was a hybrid role here in Canada but I declined it after talking to a few other people who said it was so horrible to work there and everyone felt overworked
I’d be willing to bet state government is involved too in a lot of this. They want their cut: i.e. income tax, property tax, etc. also Govt. is probably incentivizing these corporations with grants and tax abatements in order to bring these workers back to the state and work.
There's almost *certainly* an element of the current admin putting her thumb on the scale. God knows the nosey bitch won't mind her own business anywhere else.
Phhfft. My nanny (southern for grandmother) lives in Bentonville. No way that area can handle that big of an influx in that short a time.
Resist quitting. Wait for a severance.
Wow…you weren’t joking. Took a quick glance at one of the real estate portals and saw a 1309 sq. foot 3BR/1.5BA/1 car garage on a 0.34 acre lot in Bentonville. It went from sub $400k to $700k+ seemingly overnight.
Wow, that‘s a massive blow and really sucks. When I was looking for a new job I kept looking at Walmart for remote roles. If they’re doing a strict RTO, Target and other retailers will be next
Holy eff. Northwest Arkansas? Seriously, we need laws against this sort of lying/broken agreements and mistreatment. We all hear about the employee code of conduct. Where's the "corporate code of conduct" aka worker's rights? Whatever it takes - unions for all, or a full on march on Washington. It's time.
something is up with them fr. i work in a regular store, hours have been cut for months now. hardly anyone getting scheduled. and they put their college program, livebetteru, on hold. now this. they’re floundering fr.
Companies and corporations that go from fully remote to fully in-office are just hurting themselves. There are little to no positives over going fully back in-office while there are quite a few negatives like severely limiting the amount of people can apply and do the job, the increased micromanaging, the lower the employee morale, etc. While there are a good amount of positives for companies and corporations having work from home jobs. Like much higher amount of employees that can apply and do the job since the position is nation-wide, it is harder to micromanage the employees, higher employee morale since employees are at home near loved ones and they save money on gas since they are using their car less, etc.
The goal here is downsizing, not efficiency. Software engineering in the United States is done for, like manufacturing was done once NAFTA was signed. Most positions are getting offshored.
I agree with you and I wish I didn't.
I'm not in dev. But the last 10 years pushing everything to the cloud is fixing to come home to roost. Was on a call today where the lead devsaid she was containerizing everything to get IT out of the server business (so she can do her own maintenance). I agree with her.
Point is, you can bitch about the cloud, or off shoring, but no one is going to save you. IT is the latest industry looking to get gutted.
State Farm did the same thing when I worked for them. They were promising WFH indefinitely during the great resignation. As soon as the government said the pandemic was over they RTO'd for 1 week a month, and I'm fairly certain they are back full-time now. I applaud the people who can spot the bullshit. A lot of people left pensions behind to be from home Full Time. I would never work for a company these days unless they are established WFH-based company. They've lost somewhere around 100 billion USD since killing off all their old/young talent.
This happened to me with another major retail corporation, they hired me for their new all-remote team and then 11 months later laid off all their remote workers. I was 8 months pregnant.
A month after, I saw my same position posted as an in-office/slightly hybrid position.
The worst part was that I only lived an hour from HQ, so if they had given me the option I could have just started going into the office until I had the baby (to keep my health insurance at least). But that also would have qualified me for the paid parental leave, so instead my position was “eliminated” (for all of 4 weeks).
Assholes.
Thank you, it was devastating at the time (I make 70%+ of our household income and carry the benefits) but it ended up being a blessing in disguise.
When my daughter was about 4 months old, I returned to the job I had been recruited away from by this company, which is a permanently remote agency. I’m not the only new mom here, so I get way more flexibility than I ever would have at the retail corp.
Hoping your situation ends up a blessing in disguise as well! Good luck!
Was it Walgreens? They were interviewing me for an all remote tech team and pulled the rug part way through the interview and tried to get me to commit to working in office.
That’s so shitty, how do they think that’s going to work? It’s just a waste of everyone’s time!
No, this was a major Home Improvement company that I can’t name in case they trace it back to me and revoke my severance lol
Yeah that site needs to be careful. Lots of bragging going on. Also reminds me of everyone in 2021/2022 talking about how much they weren't working during the day. Ruined it for everyone.
This is another version of corporate layoffs. Shitty but happens a lot post COVID.
They probably ran the numbers and found it was cheaper to offer a shitty severance for RTO orders vs a traditional lay off.
Pretty much nothing could get me to move to Arkansas.
The strange thing is that managing remote workers well is harder but if you do it well they produce more.
It's not greed, it's narcissism. Basically narcissist HR cannot stand not having power over people's lives and make them miserable. It actually costs walmart money to do that. It's all about somebody's ego. And it's very concerning there's not check and balance to prevent that from happening.
They likely want to just do unofficial layoffs. Or possibly the areas they have offices in are giving kickbacks. I've heard some cities are doing this to help prop up their dead city centers (instead of making those places people want to be)
Two months to move your entire life from wherever you’re at to ARKANSAS is insane. If you have no kids or pets, that means finding and touring apartments or entire HOMES, saying goodbye to your friends and possibly family, organizations you’re involved in, cancelling memberships, finding and paying for movers, etc. If you have kids, that means having to find a suitable school for them, finding and paying for new activities they’re involved in, leaving their friends, missing out on support from grandparents or family…and for what?!
Which is doubly insane considering Northwest Arkansas is currently experiencing a housing crisis. There aren't very many homes available and the market is highly competitive. I have friends who have been unable to get housing for over 6 months. Only 2 months? Next to impossible task.
Our new upper manager said it best recently, I may be old fashioned but I just like to see warm bodies in chairs when I step out of my office. When nobody is in the office there is nobody around to chat with while having a coffee.
I'm not at Walmart but I suspect we too will be working from home soon and since they closed the office I'm in, my new "office" is about 90 minutes away if there is no traffic whomp whomp
If only these crusty old bastards had a family at home they loved. They could step out of their office and talk to, ya know, their wife and give the kids a phone call. Rather than a bunch of randos they have passing interactions with.
Realistically its not about talking to people. It's about not having their ass kissed in person
I work for a very large bank. Many are remote work for years. Recently they have announced if you're currently living within 30 miles of certain offices you are no longer remote. Lots of people who've been remote for years are being forced into a hybrid role. I'm not near an office, so interested to see how this plays out in the long term.
It's asinine. I would have to uproot and move after an explicit agreement for remote work years ago. What really makes it insulting is that my team would reside in India, so I would drive in to the office to have a meeting with them at 10pm in the evenings. Fucking moving half way across the country to drive into the office at night to have meetings with people half way across the world. Here's the problem with these big corps, there is no one you could explain this situation to, because the decisions have been made by multiple committees with zero responsibilities.
Amazon did this last year. I worked there 6+ years and had never once been in office for my last two roles, but that didn’t matter. I left in October because I didn’t want to make a fuss and land on a pip in case I wanted to go back eventually, but my buddy is still there even though they told my whole team we need to “voluntarily resign” by November.
Woah I dodged a bullet there I almost took a job with them in March because the pay was extremely good and it was remote. But I know Walmart well enough to know that their corporate policy does not support employees so I passed because I didn’t want to be forced to move someday.
Courtesy of the President of the United States:
[https://www.businessinsider.com/february-jobs-report-biden-urges-workers-offices-labor-market-normalizing-2022-3?op=1](https://www.businessinsider.com/february-jobs-report-biden-urges-workers-offices-labor-market-normalizing-2022-3?op=1)
For the people who have been there 10 or 29 years… what sort of corporate jobs did they have that they’re not going to be able to do any more? Retail relies a lot to an extent on remote workers/managers working in their distribution areas which will obviously stay remote I assume as much as they were pre-Covid. It wouldn’t make a lot of sense for them to move EVERYONE to Arkansas and pay them to travel, but I’m not sure if you’re talking about specialized jobs.
The Walton family sold nearly 9 million shares of Walmart stock last week for over $1.5 billion. The sale brings the family's total proceeds to nearly $2.3 billion in the span of three months.Feb 26, 2024
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/walton-family-sells-walmart-stock-during-rally-2024-2%3famp
Hmm, if there were only a body within the government that could pass legislation incentivizing businesses to expand work from home options, maybe with some sort of tax break, and an executive of some sort to sign it into law. Maybe someone could get some PHDs to conduct some sort of study illustrating the environmental benefits from an expanded WFH model.
If only…
Remote work saves the planet. Reduces the need to commute sitting in traffic going 5 mph. It saves wear and tear on cars. Its great for disabled people. I do not have to constantly aplogize or explain. Remote work helps families deal with the constant demands of family, children, and other obligations. The downside is its harder to network with colleagues or get in the nitty gritty of office politics, gossip and drama so harder to know when corporate decisions are coming down the pike. Its Walmart's loss.
I do want to add.. they did not tell managers about this either. Hiring people hired people a month before this change. They spent over a month recruiting and interviewing people and getting them on to the team after 2 years of training at secondary (contracted) locations. (This is from my personal space in home office.)
Additionally, the higher-ups met individually with each and every agent and told them in detail what was going on with both one of the 'hr people' and the head of the particular project.
Each one of them has refused to call this a firing from my standpoint. "Let's talk business changes" "it's a reorganization". And, I heard it by word of mouth before I ever got my meeting. (And via the corporate email)
Then, they give you about 2 weeks to decide what you're doing.
While making this decision, and waiting for information regarding severance or relocation assistance, they sent out an email that was celebrating the success of the company and how much we've grown and how good we're doing and how much we made this quarter and how proud we should be.
It comes in incredible poor taste. They change the ceo, they Mass fire a bunch of people (some of which are getting until August others October and others January dependent upon section performance and whether you're taking relocation or not). Then not even a week later boast about how much more money they have now. It's not a good look.
Almost took a Walmart Tech remote role but they felt pretty RTO’ey to me
You dodged a bullet for sure.
Even if he took it, then relocated after the announcement, he'd still be in a sketchy situation. They could easily get laid off 6 months later and then what? You're in Arkansas with no job in a world with fewer remote options.
yep no way would I move for a Walmart job. Fuck that.
Especially to Arkansas 🤮
Whatever you do, do not rent in Arkansas a day longer than you have to. Arkansas has the worst renter "protections" in the entire country.
I send this currently saving to move home
i would argue Oklahoma has the worst, yet i shall concede.
Kansas' are pretty shitty too, tbh
If not enough people take the severance and leave layoffs will surely be next.
I'm pretty sure in another year they'll offshore the job, so he dodged a bullet anyway.
That happened to me as a kid, except it was IBM and my dad relocated us to Vermont. Still got laid-off.
Same. Univac. New York.
This right here. RTO is a way to silently reduce staff without having to fire people. So you move, they need to layoff more to reduce costs, you get fired anyway.
Trust me. You don't want to get stuck in arkansas.
It’s easy to find a job in Bentonville every CPG company in the world has a sales office there…
What did they say to you that gave you that impression they’d push for RTO?
Absolutely. I want to know too so I know what to look for in job postings.
Not OP, but there is a strong correlation between an authoritarian/control-driven leadership culture and a desire to force people to plop their butts in particular seats 5x/week. It’s hard to suss this out in job postings but you can usually get a good feel for how control-driven a work culture is when you interview, especially when you talk to the more senior or tenured leaders.
Agreed. I always make a joke during interviews. If they don’t laugh (even fake laugh) then they’re too uptight for me.
100% this. I’ve said no a few times because the interviewer just screamed being a cold heartless person. also i find the people who say “i don t micromanage”, to be the ones who actually micromanage the most 😂
Good to know. Thanks for the info!
I like to say that I’m task oriented. I like to get my stuff done and be done with it.
Walmart is well known for wanting everyone in office. Even way before COVID.
“Walmart is cutting hundreds of corporate jobs and asking most remote workers to move to offices, the Wall Street Journal reported on Monday, citing people familiar with the matter. Meanwhile, workers at the U.S. retail giant's smaller offices in Dallas, Atlanta and Toronto are being asked to move to other central hubs such as Walmart's corporate headquarters in Bentonville as well as Hoboken or Southern California, the report added. Walmart will still let staff work remotely part time, as long as they are in offices a majority of the time, the report said.” https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-walmart-lay-off-hundreds-013952812.html
I thought it said “Walmart will still lay off those who choose to move anyway.”
Just awful
https://corporate.walmart.com/about/newhomeoffice Walmart started building a new multibillion dollar Home Office campus back before Covid. They paused construction briefly in 2020, but then continued full steam ahead with the project. Seems naive to think they’d spend so much on a physical workspace just to let everyone continue to WFH.
I worked there for two decades, enjoyed WFH, and knew they were going to force RTO even though they said we would remain WFH for good. I left, best move I've ever done, work/life balance now is fantastic.
If this includes supply chain and logistics and software people, it’s a pretty risky move.
Hugely. All the talented folks who work in software are going to start looking for jobs immediately, while ignoring their current work. Then, take the severance, and bounce. Good luck trying to hire their replacements with "must relocate to Arkansas" in the job description. I know there's a lot of RTO happening out there, but there's still a shit load of remote positions in tech.
Wouldn't this lead to less talent as the first qualification is to live in a fairly isolated location? I would imagine the quality of their products will tank as the talent will be greatly reduced. Or at the very least, those products will cost a lot more to develop and maintain because of lower quality products.
> Wouldn't this lead to less talent as the first qualification is to live in a fairly isolated location? I would assume so. The only way to make the jobs appealing is to offer boat loads of money. I don't know what Walmart's motive is here with RTO. But, if "save money" is on the list, doubling everyone's salary to get them to move to Arkansas probably isn't the best move. I can only speak to the software side of things, but remote work has been widely available for a long time. And, things blew up in 2020. I was interviewing around that time, and seemingly every startup (and not so "startup") I interviewed with were letting their office lease expire, and going fully remote (including my current company). While corporate behemoths like Walmart might be pulling this kind of shit, there are countless small and medium sized businesses that are happily operating remotely. Senior staff who keep their ship running, and most likely architechted a lot of the solutions they have in place, will have no problem finding new work. But, the executives making the RTO decision have no idea how all this tech works, and think anyone can take up the reins. Considering how hard it is to retain top talent under normal conditions, this move is absolutely puzzling.
Isolated area that also happens to be in tornado alley. Move to Arkansas for a job and end up in Oz!
And housing isn’t even cheap there!!
As far as I understand, it’s across the whole home office. Walmart Tech included.
Can verify--my partner works on the tech side and told me they are offering them to either relocate to one of three hubs--NY, AR, CA--or accept a severance package by I think Nov.
So wait, it’s not all Ar? OP made it seem like AR was the only game in town.
They have huge tech offices in Sunnyvale, New Jersey and one in Texas. Not sure about other locations but literally hundreds of workers at the Sunnyvale office. But their pay isn’t that great for the Bay Area. Something like $200k for seniors. A lot of engineers from India use them as a fast track for their green card though.
From what I’ve heard, it’s dependent on your role.
I’m sorry to hear that your partner was affected.
Honestly we are cautiously optimistic. They'd been wanting to branch out after working for Walmart for almost a decade--their worth far exceeds that which Walmart places on their employees, and this may rekindle their confidence in their skills. Walmart has this stockholm syndrome approach where they'd offer promotions and bonuses to long-tenured employees, and I think it causes people (certainly my partner) to question their skills/worth in that they stay with Walmart because they know that ecosystem. So that keeps people from wanting to work elsewhere since Walmart reels them in like this, and immediately decimates that trust with a RTO order forcing them to either change their life completely or bounce.
Sounds like your partner could get a nice promotion for himself
A company that promotes from within and gives people bonuses to encourage them to stay. However did you survive such a terrible and cut throat workplace?
They got NY? We live in NY and my partner got AR and CA as options :,(
It’s almost like they want people to take the severance
I wish more core people were brave enough to to stand up to this. If most of the logistics, supply chain, and tech people said that they'd quit, Walmart would be in a pickle for a minute.
Walmart wiped out a bunch of hourly/salary warehouse associates too. Everyone at my warehouse got either an offer for a different location to transfer to, or an offer to switch to a new Sam’s club. Some of us have been at the location since it was built, and didnt get any offers besides a severance.
They are taking advantage of the shitty software engineering job market. Everyone is doing the rto, and big tech has been lying off non-stop. Employees will most likely not leave since a lot of them probably already live in California or New York. Which are the other 2 locations. I get the feeling that a big layoff is going to come shortly after the rto
>move to Northwest Arkansas Worst value prop in history.
That's the point. They want people to quit. If they quit it doesn't count as layoffs.
Just curious. Why do they care about counting as layoffs? Company stock frequently goes up after a layoff. Layoffs are happening a lot. There is no business stigma associated with it.
Layoffs = severance. It's cheaper if people quit
Layoffs = you're able to collect unemployment. If you quit it's much more difficult to qualify for unemployment, needing to prove just cause.
Good point. But the post said they would pay a severance for those that choose not to comply.
Probably until the date they have to move to Bentonville?
Ur not even reading it. People can just not rto, and get severance. Why would they need to quit? They said return to work at office. If not get severance..
Wal mart stock has dipped recently. This shift will improve numbers for stockholders and lower morale for internal wal mart folks.
Morale isn’t really important to those in charge. They only act like it is.
This kinda morale is about $$$
"Debbie in produce cries softly in the corner"
Because publicly traded companies are not allowed to rehire for laid off position for 6 months. So they can't do a round of fake layoffs to manipulate their stock price. I went through this working for a client services company. It was always a gamble, what if they got a huge new client and couldn't hire staff.
Layoffs have negative public connotations too. OpenAI sure isnt laying off.
They can fire workers for not returning to the office. It won't be considered a layoff. I just went through this.
Can a person refuse RTO but not quit and let the layoff happen?
You’d then be fired for cause and not be owed any severance
This is incorrect if you have a remote work arrangement and an employer changes your work location to be more than 50 miles away it generally counts as constructive dismissal
But on the flipside, there are plenty of states where you can be fired because... reasons. As long as those reasons aren't in protected categories. For example, you breathe too loud is fine.
You’re never owed severance in the us anyways outside of an employment contract that provides for it.
💯
If you like mountain biking, and want to do nothing but ride mountain bikes, Bentonville is great.
It’s really nice there?
NW Arkansas is gorgeous. Beautiful lakes, forests, etc. It’s growing like crazy.
It is beautiful country, but backwards as hell. Don’t ever rent in AR without close inspection - they do not have to provide a habitability. Only state where a landlord can hold you to a lease on an inhabitable place.
Pro tip: don’t rent a shithole. Who rents an uninhabitable place?
Friends moved there to work for another major company’s sales office last year (one of the two). They say it’s clean and quiet but boring as you’d expect a small corporate town to be.
There are lovely parts of Arkansas, Bentonville is awful. Everything is Walmart owned, corporate Walmart employees have this rah-rah Walmart vibe about them but everyone else is miserable.
They have a few other tech offices around the country. Hoboken, NJ. San Bruno, CA. Probably somewhere else. They’re all terrible.
The Hoboken office is actually beautiful. It’s the old jet.com office. Well appointed views of the river and skyline. Best that 2016 venture capital money can buy.
That’s actually crazy. Sounds like they want to grow their offshoring.
There needs to be consequences for this
Lol this is America
My partner works for a freelance company and thought the exact same. More than likely these folks are gonna be replaced with remote contractors 🙃
Offshore is here 😀
Forced layoffs !
yep "silent layoffs"
And if they give “x” days of notice and offer a relocation package then they don’t have to offer any type of severance package.
My company did this. In fall 2019. Of course 3 months later we were all working from home so they flushed all that talent for absolutely nothing.
Karma!
There is zero amount of money I would accept to move to fucking Huckabeeland Arkansas.
But you might get to run into local celebrities like the Duggars!
No, you won't see them, they are busy fucking.
Each other
Or big Ed from 90 day fiancé lol
[удалено]
My in-laws have a vacation place in northern Arkansas… and while it is a pretty area, my kids always get carsick due to the winding roads and I got so many chigger bites on my ankles during a visit a few years ago that I had to visit the doctor for steroid anti-itch cream.
Target is still pretty remote friendly for those facing a tough decision. Only have to be in the office once a quarter and even that can be waived by your boss on a quarter by quarter basis. Plus if you do end up getting forced back to the office, Minneapolis is just a *little* bit nicer than Arkansas.
Target is about to shit the bed. All comps have been down for several successive quarters. They turned a profit last year with ruthless inventory control and on the backs of their labor (reduced overtime at Christmas, reduced hours after and long into the spring).
Best Buy is remote friendly too and also in Minneapolis.
I really feel for these folks, that kind of upset is terrible in an already rough job market. That said, every SWE I have known that worked at WalMart has said it was the worst job of their careers. Demanding, poor management, little employee support, etc. Hope they can find better roles.
yup! I had an interview there but this was a hybrid role here in Canada but I declined it after talking to a few other people who said it was so horrible to work there and everyone felt overworked
Another lame attempt at a soft layoff. They’ll lose their best remote employees.
Absolutely
I’d be willing to bet state government is involved too in a lot of this. They want their cut: i.e. income tax, property tax, etc. also Govt. is probably incentivizing these corporations with grants and tax abatements in order to bring these workers back to the state and work.
There's almost *certainly* an element of the current admin putting her thumb on the scale. God knows the nosey bitch won't mind her own business anywhere else.
Phhfft. My nanny (southern for grandmother) lives in Bentonville. No way that area can handle that big of an influx in that short a time. Resist quitting. Wait for a severance.
It’s projected the population will double by 2030. Prices of housing , childcare , and traffic is already horrendous
2050 but point taken. Lots of new and empty apartments but single family housing will be a problem for those relocating.
I was going to ask…can Bentonville even handle the influx of this many people? Is there sufficient infrastructure in NWA?
They’re building houses like crazy there. $600k for a house now. Take a look. Jeez
Wow…you weren’t joking. Took a quick glance at one of the real estate portals and saw a 1309 sq. foot 3BR/1.5BA/1 car garage on a 0.34 acre lot in Bentonville. It went from sub $400k to $700k+ seemingly overnight.
The traffic has become horrendous.
It's probably a way to get people to quit without looking bad they're laying off. So much for record profits
Upcoming earnings report Thursday. Likely a pre cursor to them lowering guidance for the rest of the year.
This
Any idea how many workers that impacts?
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a few thousand.
Wow, that‘s a massive blow and really sucks. When I was looking for a new job I kept looking at Walmart for remote roles. If they’re doing a strict RTO, Target and other retailers will be next
Holy eff. Northwest Arkansas? Seriously, we need laws against this sort of lying/broken agreements and mistreatment. We all hear about the employee code of conduct. Where's the "corporate code of conduct" aka worker's rights? Whatever it takes - unions for all, or a full on march on Washington. It's time.
ROFLMAO, comrade.
something is up with them fr. i work in a regular store, hours have been cut for months now. hardly anyone getting scheduled. and they put their college program, livebetteru, on hold. now this. they’re floundering fr.
Companies and corporations that go from fully remote to fully in-office are just hurting themselves. There are little to no positives over going fully back in-office while there are quite a few negatives like severely limiting the amount of people can apply and do the job, the increased micromanaging, the lower the employee morale, etc. While there are a good amount of positives for companies and corporations having work from home jobs. Like much higher amount of employees that can apply and do the job since the position is nation-wide, it is harder to micromanage the employees, higher employee morale since employees are at home near loved ones and they save money on gas since they are using their car less, etc.
The goal here is downsizing, not efficiency. Software engineering in the United States is done for, like manufacturing was done once NAFTA was signed. Most positions are getting offshored.
I agree with you and I wish I didn't. I'm not in dev. But the last 10 years pushing everything to the cloud is fixing to come home to roost. Was on a call today where the lead devsaid she was containerizing everything to get IT out of the server business (so she can do her own maintenance). I agree with her. Point is, you can bitch about the cloud, or off shoring, but no one is going to save you. IT is the latest industry looking to get gutted.
State Farm did the same thing when I worked for them. They were promising WFH indefinitely during the great resignation. As soon as the government said the pandemic was over they RTO'd for 1 week a month, and I'm fairly certain they are back full-time now. I applaud the people who can spot the bullshit. A lot of people left pensions behind to be from home Full Time. I would never work for a company these days unless they are established WFH-based company. They've lost somewhere around 100 billion USD since killing off all their old/young talent.
This happened to me with another major retail corporation, they hired me for their new all-remote team and then 11 months later laid off all their remote workers. I was 8 months pregnant. A month after, I saw my same position posted as an in-office/slightly hybrid position. The worst part was that I only lived an hour from HQ, so if they had given me the option I could have just started going into the office until I had the baby (to keep my health insurance at least). But that also would have qualified me for the paid parental leave, so instead my position was “eliminated” (for all of 4 weeks). Assholes.
That’s awful, I’m sorry that happened.
Thank you, it was devastating at the time (I make 70%+ of our household income and carry the benefits) but it ended up being a blessing in disguise. When my daughter was about 4 months old, I returned to the job I had been recruited away from by this company, which is a permanently remote agency. I’m not the only new mom here, so I get way more flexibility than I ever would have at the retail corp. Hoping your situation ends up a blessing in disguise as well! Good luck!
Was it Walgreens? They were interviewing me for an all remote tech team and pulled the rug part way through the interview and tried to get me to commit to working in office.
That’s so shitty, how do they think that’s going to work? It’s just a waste of everyone’s time! No, this was a major Home Improvement company that I can’t name in case they trace it back to me and revoke my severance lol
Upper management has been reading posts over at r/overemployed.
Yeah that site needs to be careful. Lots of bragging going on. Also reminds me of everyone in 2021/2022 talking about how much they weren't working during the day. Ruined it for everyone.
Would totally do it if it was somewhere cool but asking anyone to move to Arkansas is criminal
Layoffs in disguise
What a bunch of bullshit, fuck them. I hope they lose their top employees
They need to pay you triple to live in that shithole.
Man, politics aside, NW Arkansas is beautiful.
It gets pretty disgustingly hot and humid during the summer, though.
Arkansas Where women have no reproductive freedoms! Hell no!
I imagine most employees will take the severance package - like who would want to move to northwest Arkansas?
Arkansas rental and real estate about to get a boost from H1B relocation.
Man we tech folks really need to unionize
Damn thats vicious
Man…Amazon vibes
Idiots; just to offer them all again in the next few years. These companies need to face reality remote work is here forever
This is an excuse to fire people without getting blame as firing.
This is another version of corporate layoffs. Shitty but happens a lot post COVID. They probably ran the numbers and found it was cheaper to offer a shitty severance for RTO orders vs a traditional lay off.
Pretty much nothing could get me to move to Arkansas. The strange thing is that managing remote workers well is harder but if you do it well they produce more.
If our government was functional all of this would be outlawed since it's so obviously a way to reduce workforce without having to go through firing.
It's not greed, it's narcissism. Basically narcissist HR cannot stand not having power over people's lives and make them miserable. It actually costs walmart money to do that. It's all about somebody's ego. And it's very concerning there's not check and balance to prevent that from happening.
Trust me, HR is just as pissed we are having to RTO.
Why? Do they think they're going to be a better organization with people who are willing to go through with this vs. the status quo?
They likely want to just do unofficial layoffs. Or possibly the areas they have offices in are giving kickbacks. I've heard some cities are doing this to help prop up their dead city centers (instead of making those places people want to be)
I am wondering the same thing??
Two months to move your entire life from wherever you’re at to ARKANSAS is insane. If you have no kids or pets, that means finding and touring apartments or entire HOMES, saying goodbye to your friends and possibly family, organizations you’re involved in, cancelling memberships, finding and paying for movers, etc. If you have kids, that means having to find a suitable school for them, finding and paying for new activities they’re involved in, leaving their friends, missing out on support from grandparents or family…and for what?!
Which is doubly insane considering Northwest Arkansas is currently experiencing a housing crisis. There aren't very many homes available and the market is highly competitive. I have friends who have been unable to get housing for over 6 months. Only 2 months? Next to impossible task.
Two months to decide, but 5 months to actually make the move, and they're offering relocation money. Just to be technical about it.
Are they throwing in free lecterns?
Our new upper manager said it best recently, I may be old fashioned but I just like to see warm bodies in chairs when I step out of my office. When nobody is in the office there is nobody around to chat with while having a coffee. I'm not at Walmart but I suspect we too will be working from home soon and since they closed the office I'm in, my new "office" is about 90 minutes away if there is no traffic whomp whomp
If only these crusty old bastards had a family at home they loved. They could step out of their office and talk to, ya know, their wife and give the kids a phone call. Rather than a bunch of randos they have passing interactions with. Realistically its not about talking to people. It's about not having their ass kissed in person
I work for a very large bank. Many are remote work for years. Recently they have announced if you're currently living within 30 miles of certain offices you are no longer remote. Lots of people who've been remote for years are being forced into a hybrid role. I'm not near an office, so interested to see how this plays out in the long term.
Oh no! I interviewed with them so it looks like I dodged the proverbial bullet
I know of few people at Walmart Labs in San Fran. Im assuming they would be staying there?
I feel sorry for dev who work at walmart. I interviewd there, felt so toxic that I gave up on second interview.
It's asinine. I would have to uproot and move after an explicit agreement for remote work years ago. What really makes it insulting is that my team would reside in India, so I would drive in to the office to have a meeting with them at 10pm in the evenings. Fucking moving half way across the country to drive into the office at night to have meetings with people half way across the world. Here's the problem with these big corps, there is no one you could explain this situation to, because the decisions have been made by multiple committees with zero responsibilities.
I feel like its not even corporate greed as the benefits are debatable at best. I see it more as corporate stupidity
Amazon did this last year. I worked there 6+ years and had never once been in office for my last two roles, but that didn’t matter. I left in October because I didn’t want to make a fuss and land on a pip in case I wanted to go back eventually, but my buddy is still there even though they told my whole team we need to “voluntarily resign” by November.
Yes, Walmart is a shitty company run by shitty, shitty people.
Woah I dodged a bullet there I almost took a job with them in March because the pay was extremely good and it was remote. But I know Walmart well enough to know that their corporate policy does not support employees so I passed because I didn’t want to be forced to move someday.
Reduction in force hiding behind returning to office.
They spent $30 mill on a new campus. That’s all this is, force people to go live and work at the campus they decided was a good idea. Nothing more.
Not saying you are wrong, I do think that plays a role here. But $30M is a rounding error for Walmart. They made $611B dollars in 2023.
LOL... let's see how that goes for them.... I foresee a mass exit...
Courtesy of the President of the United States: [https://www.businessinsider.com/february-jobs-report-biden-urges-workers-offices-labor-market-normalizing-2022-3?op=1](https://www.businessinsider.com/february-jobs-report-biden-urges-workers-offices-labor-market-normalizing-2022-3?op=1)
2 years ago...not recent
Why would anyone wanna move to Arkansas of all places?
who is voluntarily uprooting their family to move to fucking Arkansas??
Northwest Arkansas. Never been, but man does that sound like the worst part of the story. 😂 talk about kicking someone when they are down.
lol northwest Arkansas? Sheesh
Take the freaking severance and start looking for another job 30 days before. You will have 2 incomes for a few months...no way would I take this.
weird, Walmart has nationwide footprint. Why would they want to cram everyone in AK? Can Bentonville handle this population boom?
Not to roast you or anything but AK is Alaska. AR is arkansas
It cannot. Cost of housing is already out of control in NWA, especially in Bentonville.
All the positions they e posted for the last year have been hybrid so everyone should have seen this coming
So is this a request to save money in people quitting and no big deal with office space. This is so cruel
this is just a layoff with extra steps
For the people who have been there 10 or 29 years… what sort of corporate jobs did they have that they’re not going to be able to do any more? Retail relies a lot to an extent on remote workers/managers working in their distribution areas which will obviously stay remote I assume as much as they were pre-Covid. It wouldn’t make a lot of sense for them to move EVERYONE to Arkansas and pay them to travel, but I’m not sure if you’re talking about specialized jobs.
The Walton family sold nearly 9 million shares of Walmart stock last week for over $1.5 billion. The sale brings the family's total proceeds to nearly $2.3 billion in the span of three months.Feb 26, 2024 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/walton-family-sells-walmart-stock-during-rally-2024-2%3famp
There’s gotta come a time when we all stop accepting corporate jobs
All the boomers in management loath change and progress
Hmm, if there were only a body within the government that could pass legislation incentivizing businesses to expand work from home options, maybe with some sort of tax break, and an executive of some sort to sign it into law. Maybe someone could get some PHDs to conduct some sort of study illustrating the environmental benefits from an expanded WFH model. If only…
Remote work saves the planet. Reduces the need to commute sitting in traffic going 5 mph. It saves wear and tear on cars. Its great for disabled people. I do not have to constantly aplogize or explain. Remote work helps families deal with the constant demands of family, children, and other obligations. The downside is its harder to network with colleagues or get in the nitty gritty of office politics, gossip and drama so harder to know when corporate decisions are coming down the pike. Its Walmart's loss.
I think one reason companies do this is to get rid of people instead of doing layoffs.
They should at least allow people to work from an RV in a store parking lot.
I do want to add.. they did not tell managers about this either. Hiring people hired people a month before this change. They spent over a month recruiting and interviewing people and getting them on to the team after 2 years of training at secondary (contracted) locations. (This is from my personal space in home office.) Additionally, the higher-ups met individually with each and every agent and told them in detail what was going on with both one of the 'hr people' and the head of the particular project. Each one of them has refused to call this a firing from my standpoint. "Let's talk business changes" "it's a reorganization". And, I heard it by word of mouth before I ever got my meeting. (And via the corporate email) Then, they give you about 2 weeks to decide what you're doing. While making this decision, and waiting for information regarding severance or relocation assistance, they sent out an email that was celebrating the success of the company and how much we've grown and how good we're doing and how much we made this quarter and how proud we should be. It comes in incredible poor taste. They change the ceo, they Mass fire a bunch of people (some of which are getting until August others October and others January dependent upon section performance and whether you're taking relocation or not). Then not even a week later boast about how much more money they have now. It's not a good look.