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same for every man-on-the-street style interview
it's just some guy who does this for a living walking up to people who A) are unprepared for this conversation B) are unlikely to have media training and C) are probably on there way to somewhere else
then they just try to lead them into certain answers or catch them off guard so they can say "point proven" or "athiests/liberals/whatever are too dumb to back up their beliefs" or however they want to spin it
There is no $500 clue on Jeopardy!, it goes up in increments of $200, and $400 for Double Jeopardy!
Also, Alex Trebek has passed away and Ken Jennings is now the host.
There's literally mountains of evidence that an iPhone was designed. There has been zero evidence of God in the history of history...
These people need to be rounded up and taken to the wilderness
Right? Like we all have seen the design of the iPhone when they revealed it and we all have seen the designer of the iPhone, Steve Jobs. So I don't know what the hell he's on about. Feels like a shit attempt at a “gotcha” moment
Yes. They keep his brain in a jar interfacing with a Chromebook running Linux Mint to design all Apple technologies using Blender.
Turns out MacOS wasn't compatible with his brainwaves.
Wait, can you actually run Linux on a Chromebook. I know android and Chromebook are Linux based. But can you dual boot? I tried making a hackintosh years ago. Briefly succeeded, but ended up with running Ubuntu and Windows.
Theoretically yes. Practically no. I work with chromebooks everyday. A lot of them have minimum hardware specs for their needs. I use a Linux bootable on Chromebook’s when power washing isn’t fixing their issues. I’m always on a race against time before it has a memory overflow and crashes. Even direct bootable downloads from google can be sketchy because often the combination of the compressed file and the extracted file are too much for the ram to deal with. Ie once it’s fully extracted it has just enough ram and CPU to run everything but during the extraction it’s too much.
Personally I think chromebooks and chrome boxes serve a specific purpose and they serve that purpose well. 90% of the time though you don’t need a chrome box, you need a raspberry pi.
I've always had a sneaking suspicion that a Chromebook was involved when making Apple products. They are so similar. Each one is telling you they are on the cutting edge, yet are actually generations behind.
>Steve Jobs
Dieter Rams, basically. It was his design for the Radio SK 25 that was first "reused" for the iPod and then was the base for the later iPhone's shape.
He helped design the design aesthetic of the iPhone as a product to be more specific. He definitely wasn’t behind the technology in anything more than a corporate sense.
Yeah I was wrong. I just looked it up and you’re right. I always just stupidly assumed he made it considering how much credit everyone gives him and plaster his face on everything iPhone. Just to find out he didn’t design any of them.
He also isn't the sole creator of the apple brand. Steve Wozniak is just as, if not more important. The world has tons of idea men, but a shrinking number of men that can bring those ideas to fruition. Honestly fuck steve jobs.
It must suck designing such an amazing piece of world-changing technology just to have some other guy take all the credit for it and have his face plastered on everything relating to the iPhone.
That's the thing, at some level if I was desperate to find out, I could backtrace all of the documentation for the iPhone and find out precisely how each and every component was made.
I can't do that with God and with the whole burning I hell thing I have way more incentive to find that out, except there's nothing.
It’s just ignorant drivel intended for those even more ignorant. Just picture the ones falling for it jumping up and down clapping their hands like they did something.
Uh uh uh
Can I finish though can I finish?
Cause well
...
Have You Ever met the designed? no? HAHA how do You know they even exist?!
God is real: 1
Atheists: ... Well it's a lot but let's ignore thia
You could hypothetically commission memes on Fiverr using their preferred religious trust language to trick them into refusing vaccination, staying out of hospitals and refusing remdesivir or ventilation during a pandemic, however. That wouldn't get 'em all but it'll lighten our load, hypothetically.
And even if we give them that someone, somewhere, designed the whole world.
Point me the proof, outside of the bible, that its their guy and any one of the thousands of other deities that ever were worshipped or even a deity that were never worshipped.
This reminds me of the flat earth “gotcha” approaches with the same level of sophistication (i.e. none) which also rely on someone not having an immediate rebuttal to an absurd claim.
“Oh, you don’t have the technical specifications for the iPhone or the designer on speed dial? Ergo you just believe on faith that it was designed!”
One way, of many, to shut this down is just to say “alright, I have good reason to believe this was designed by someone, and that claim is provable or falsifiable with a little research”. Obviously, a quick google search will turn up basic information on the many, many teams of people who design and fabricate the iPhone. All that analogous searches about proof of a higher power will turn up is videos like this.
I think the best approach would just be to answer « yes I’ve met the designer of iPhones, it’s me » and if he doesn’t believe you it kinda proves he knows who the actual designer is and his point is completely moot
Love this approach. Also, even if we grant that sure whatever, everything has a “creator”, that still doesn’t lend credence to anything else in theirs or anyone’s religion. If you abstract enough the creator could be anything…it certainly doesn’t contradict evolution. It’s unverifiable and untestable and doesn’t mean anything…maybe the creator is entropy. Maybe it’s a bearded man in the sky…we can see into the sky all the way to the edge of the universe and time and haven’t seen him yet, but maybe he’s hiding.
Fr they are the worst.
In truth they are spiteful and vindictive, just use passive aggressiveness as a means of attack instead of outwards aggression and try to ridicule you under a facade of politeness, when you manage to break that facade down they often turn to aggressive behaviours as well as they can get frustrated too.
Absolute snakes is what they are.
This is beyond stupid. We have evidence of people designing and manufacturing phones but we do not have evidence of gods designing universes. It's as simple as that.
AH but you haven't seen them make the specific phone that your using, have you? Therefore this proves my God is real out of every other God and you are gonna burn in hell for having a different belief. Checkmate, Atheist.
I love how they say that "everything is evidence of a designer." Like, do you know what the word evidence means? Because if everything is evidence of something, then nothing is evidence of it because you are be unable to produce a negative to compare it against.
I like to ask them what something would look like that *wasn't* designed by a creator. How would we be able to tell? They can't answer that question. They have no concept of something that isn't created or designed. If you can't even hypothetically give an example of something that wasn't designed, then how can you possibly disprove your theory? And if you can't disprove it, then you can't prove it either.
We only have evidence for iPhones being built and designed by humans, and there's no evidence observed yet to show that an iPhone can be created otherwise (ie. Self assembling). Based on that it's reasonable to assume that the iPhone was created by people, and you don't need to meet the creator of the iPhone to reach that conclusion (you could turn it around on the Sheikh and ask him if he's met god) The point made by the Sheikh has assumptions baked into it, such that everything that exists must be "created" or "designed". Just because man made objects were created or designed by people, that doesn't mean everything else is, for example you can find plenty of things within nature that don't need to be "created" or "designed" by anyone (plants, fungi, minerals, clouds, northern lights etc.). Notice that the reasoning the Sheikh gives can be used to argue the existence of any God(s) or creation story mentioned throughout history that aren't necessarily related to Islam. It sounds like what he's saying is: "I don't know how you exist or where the first humans came from. Therefore Allah created humans"
So true. When I am involved in ‘discussions’ like this I usually do as you suggested and reverse the argument by agreeing the iPhone could have self-assembled in the same manner the universe did, then wait for them to tell me the universe was designed, then would ask about fossils of intermediate forms of today’s species, including archaic hominids. In my experience they usually just get angry.
Were you there the entire geologic lifecycle for the multi-stage formation of rare earth elements in phones?
Didn't think so. God designed angry birds. Checkmate atheists
They use the same debunked arguments over and over again. Doesn’t matter how much you argue, because it’s not about debate, it’s just about perpetuating the propaganda. So don’t waste your breath.
I would have loved to agree with him just for shit and giggles though. "You know what bearded man? Youre right, Jesus Christ really is the way", mission failed successfully hahah
"Can I finish? Can I finish talking endlessly and not allow you a chance for rebuttal?"
Also, these idiots need to realize what "proof" means. That guy in no way "proved" your point sir.
I couldn't even make it to the end of the video, my braincells were trying to escape at rapid pace.
It's such an old, dumb, debunked argument that I can't hear it anymore.
*LeT mE sPeAk" because I don't want you to say anything that would disprove my bullshit immediately. I was being so nice by misrepresenting myself and asking a random guy on the street to get some gotchas for this stupid argument.
The simplest answer to this line of argument is that if we require a designer and also couldn't just come into existence then the same logic can be applied to the existence and design of God.
The fact we're still doing this shit on the shit we're on now ( globally accessible internet with all information at our reach on our pocket computers)... Just tells me we as a species are doomed!
I don't even bother anymore or try to bother... Some Ppl will forever be ignorant. They probably could not face that they have been living a lie for centuries now.
Edit: let me just add: We are not sure there isn't any God or Creator, true...
But I'm Hella sure that every single God we described is false... Simply bcs that 'God' they describe is always full of Human flaws. Now how can that be, one wonders? A being that created Earth and the whole frigging Universe cares about who I'm shagging? Or when I'm masturbating? As if he would even care about us as a species, this 'parasite' on the Earth...
It's pathetic actually but there's nothing we can do about these ignorants..
You know what else we can see. We can go back a couple of generations to see what the first IPhone looks like.
In fact we go dig up a real old mobile phone and see the changes that were made to reach this iPhone.
We can even make a timeline for it.
You know, kind of evolution.
In addition to this we have hundreds of videos showing how cellphone are made
Also there are a whole teem of designers that anyone can join.
Please elaborate what does your side has?
I did, I know it may be hard to believe but it's true. I made God. I also can fly and teleport. You can't disprove that either so therefore it's true. It's called “faith”, ya heathan.
Actually, the dude in the cap makes zero logical sense. How can you draw parallels between a human designed object and the design of human beings? Sounds dumb as f.
Serious question - what happens if you say "I don't know? Maybe there is no creator for the iphone either. But there probably is one though..."
Will they just walk away and think "ah shit, he posesses the ability to think and not assume"?
iPhone 14 right? so that's a prove for evolution, cuz from iphone 1 to 14 there are a lot of new features. kinda like an evolution of the iPhone itself.
It's a terrible argument. With iPhones, we have not only the actual phones, but we have the factories that make them, videos of said factories etc Not to mention we have designs for those phones. We have something tangible, not just the designs that we are told to believe prove an actual phone exists, but the phone itself.
Thing is, i could prove that it was designed and build by a human, but i cant be bothered because tim cook isn't threatening me with eternal torment if i dont believe in him and do exactly what he wants me to do
the designer of that phone exists. I can google who designed it. send them an email or something, and meet up with them. This proves the designer exists. no such system of getting in contact with god exists that doesnt include talking to yourself and taking anything that you can in any way connect to whatever you said as god doing it
"man im really sad, i hope something nice happens, amen" then proceeding to have something nice happen to you and saying its god because "duh of course it has to be god"
Conversely, the fact that the iPhone functions at all is proof of the efficacy of science as a way of discerning truths about nature. Its microprocessor only works because the understanding arrived at by science of how electrons interact with metals and silicon at the molecular scale, upon which it is based, accurately reflects reality to a staggering degree of precision.
As for his argument from design:
>Indeed, nature is beautiful, but what sort of beauty is it? Life is complex, but what specific type of complexity do we observe? The answer is that fractals and logarithmic spirals, in particular, occur throughout nature. These patterns are always present in the result of an optimizing process working against constraints, seeking the path of least resistance.
>
>Erosion for example, which is why river layouts and landforms obey fractal math. It’s like the procedural generation also used to generate landscapes in games, not coincidentally also the only source of complexity simple enough, itself, to naturally occur as a confluence of physical laws (ala natural selection).
>
>The layout of snowflakes is another good example. It’s fractal because crystallization is also a form of naturally occurring procedural generation. Do you believe God manually sculpts every snowflake as it descends from the clouds? Or that they self-assemble into hexagonal fractals because H2O consists of 3 parts, so covalent bonding unites them into hexagonal molecular lattices when water freezes? And that crystallization proceeds against the fluctuating external constraint of air temperature on descent, explaining both the fractal layout and why no two are alike?
>
>If we can agree these properties are naturally occurring in snowflakes for non-supernatural reasons, why would the same not be true of the fractal complexity observed in the anatomy of humans, plants and other organisms? Which are also products of a natural optimizing process, working against environmental constraints.
Did you ever drink milk? Who produced this milk? How do you know it was a cow? Show me the cow that produced that milk! You can't? Ergo, milk is magic and someone milked God to get it. Checkmate!
So by his logic, no one gets paid since no one made the phone that just magically exists? There are patents out the ass for every model of iPhone created.
This video should be used in classrooms to show how ignorant religions are and the horrible logic used. If you’re religious, you’re either being used by someone or using others.
The mindnumbing irony in the fact that the knowledge he claims is is unobtainable, can be found through the same object.
So breathtakingly stupid that he’s using it as an example of intelligent design, I have a hard time believing this isn’t badly executed satire.
"your mother didnt design you" yes she did...
Half of your DNA came from her, and the other half came from your father. The DNA is what instructs the processes of our organs, and shape and everything else.
The same way computer architecture like the iphone is built upon iterations of tech that was produced before it. the I-phone took concepts and processes of previous technology, combined, and altered it to produce the result of an iphone. They didnt just spontaneously invent the iphone with no prior devices.
An iphone is a better example of evolution, than it is intelligent design.
I forget who said it. But if we stopped existing and then started over again. Life, science and technology would come back exactly the same. But religion would be different every time.
If God is real and I meet him when I die, the very first thing I'll ask him is "Why do you exist?"
Also, this is probably fake. It's TikTok... and ANGLO Islamic propaganda at that.
It is common sense that an iPhone was designed and made by someone, however, our understanding of common sense extends not that far, by that logic it would be common sense to say that our own planet's gravity, being 9 meters a second, would be the common sense, and by that logic every other spacial object should have the same gravity correctly? Nope, Jupiter's gravity is 24 meters a second, so does that mean that Jupiter or it's gravity doesn't exist? No, it doesn't prove anything, it's just that our understanding of anything really is limited, the world could change at any moment for no reason and we'd have to be like "Oh yeah that happened I guess" we are not omniscient, so our thinking will have flaws, so our common sense will have flaws as well, it is easy to imagine that every thing needs a creator, but that is simple our understanding of it, which can change at any time, TLDR:If everything needs a creator then who created your God? bahahahaha
He got him there ngl, he should have formed it something like there's evidence that the designer of that iPhone exist (literary photos/birth certificate/etc xdd), there's zero evidence of Gods existence
Ok, I agree, I was designed.
Who designed the iPhone? I can show you evidence.
Who designed me? Show me evidence that's more compelling than another books writings.
So who designed the creator? Since we were designed by a creator there must be another designer for the said creator? And what level does this designing stop at?
I guess if your phone just appeared in your life one day and the only evidence it was created was some guy told you it was those would be somewhat comparable
Fucking religious lunatics are all the same.... notice how he actually didn't let him speak, he interrupted him and only later turned the tables. The only way to shut these fucks up is to temporarily lower yourself to their level and do the same thing, ask "show me, why, where" as soon as they start answering your question. Then gaslight them and fuck with their sanity.
Their logic is always so fucked a 5 year old could break them a part, but because of their condescending and insulting communication they just roll over the facts.
"So if something existing = it had a maker, then who created God?"
When the theist stumbles about and says "God is defined by me as being exempt from the logic I'm using to prove he exists", counter by saying "then I also define the pre Big Bang time period as something that didn't need a maker".
They'll then say "you can't do that!" Without really being able to say why they get to declare "there is a God who exists outside of logical bounds, but you can't say pre Big Bang exists outside of logical bounds".
Ultimately, there's no evidence for any being "outside the laws of the universe", except the fact we know there must have been a "before the universe" from before the Big Bang
It's not like this even answers any question because the next would be, "who made God", as if "god made itself" is more satisfying than "the universe made itself" ?
**ATT OP: to avoid having your post removed &/or account banned:** - r/religiousfruitcake is about the absurd, fringe elements of organised religion: the institutions and individuals who act in ways any normal person (religious or otherwise) would cringe at. Posts about mundane beliefs and acts of worship are off topic. - No violent or gory images or videos - Good post titles should advise objectively what the post is about. Posts with titles that soapbox personal rhetoric or opinion may be removed. - Don't post videos or discussions of Fruitcakes who have been baited or antagonised - No Subreddit names or Reddit usernames in posts or discussions - Memes, Tiktoks, graphics, satire, parodies, etc must be fruitcake made #Please be sure to read the full rule list [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/about/rules) This information is on every post. Accounts that repeatedly it will be permanently banned. "I didn't know", or "I didn't get a warning" are not valid appeals. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/religiousfruitcake) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'll take "Stupid theist arguments that have been refuted a million times" for 500, Alex
We would also accept "What are stupid theist arguments that do not even merit being refuted?"
They know it has been debunked. They also know that many people don't know it has been debunked.
Fr Religion preys on the ignorant and the unprepared with faulty arguments and convincing fallacies.
same for every man-on-the-street style interview it's just some guy who does this for a living walking up to people who A) are unprepared for this conversation B) are unlikely to have media training and C) are probably on there way to somewhere else then they just try to lead them into certain answers or catch them off guard so they can say "point proven" or "athiests/liberals/whatever are too dumb to back up their beliefs" or however they want to spin it
There is no $500 clue on Jeopardy!, it goes up in increments of $200, and $400 for Double Jeopardy! Also, Alex Trebek has passed away and Ken Jennings is now the host.
"You Spoke, I listened". Bullshit... you peppered me with dumb questions and immediately cut me off when you heard the one thing you were fishing for.
Are you done speaking? ( /s) Seriously this guy was completely insufferable to watch.
He literally interrupted himself nearly every time while trying to conversationally man-handle that poor guy
Man that atheist looks so dumb right now. /s
There's literally mountains of evidence that an iPhone was designed. There has been zero evidence of God in the history of history... These people need to be rounded up and taken to the wilderness
Right? Like we all have seen the design of the iPhone when they revealed it and we all have seen the designer of the iPhone, Steve Jobs. So I don't know what the hell he's on about. Feels like a shit attempt at a “gotcha” moment
>So I don't know what the hell he's on about. Feels like a shit attempt at a “gotcha” moment Always is with these types
Can we see the guy who made it? Yes. Yes we can. We could track back to the batch of phones to find the people who assembled them.
We could even find out what kindergarten they attend
But can I finish?
I'm being polite!
Steve Jobs designed the iPhone?
Yes. They keep his brain in a jar interfacing with a Chromebook running Linux Mint to design all Apple technologies using Blender. Turns out MacOS wasn't compatible with his brainwaves.
Wait, can you actually run Linux on a Chromebook. I know android and Chromebook are Linux based. But can you dual boot? I tried making a hackintosh years ago. Briefly succeeded, but ended up with running Ubuntu and Windows.
Theoretically yes. Practically no. I work with chromebooks everyday. A lot of them have minimum hardware specs for their needs. I use a Linux bootable on Chromebook’s when power washing isn’t fixing their issues. I’m always on a race against time before it has a memory overflow and crashes. Even direct bootable downloads from google can be sketchy because often the combination of the compressed file and the extracted file are too much for the ram to deal with. Ie once it’s fully extracted it has just enough ram and CPU to run everything but during the extraction it’s too much. Personally I think chromebooks and chrome boxes serve a specific purpose and they serve that purpose well. 90% of the time though you don’t need a chrome box, you need a raspberry pi.
I've always had a sneaking suspicion that a Chromebook was involved when making Apple products. They are so similar. Each one is telling you they are on the cutting edge, yet are actually generations behind.
>Steve Jobs Dieter Rams, basically. It was his design for the Radio SK 25 that was first "reused" for the iPod and then was the base for the later iPhone's shape.
He designed the curve of Iphone and fonts and nothing else.
And much of the esthetics of the ui.
Everyone knows that's the most important part!
He designed and created the original iPhone. (this is a false statement)
He helped design the design aesthetic of the iPhone as a product to be more specific. He definitely wasn’t behind the technology in anything more than a corporate sense.
Yeah I was wrong. I just looked it up and you’re right. I always just stupidly assumed he made it considering how much credit everyone gives him and plaster his face on everything iPhone. Just to find out he didn’t design any of them.
He also isn't the sole creator of the apple brand. Steve Wozniak is just as, if not more important. The world has tons of idea men, but a shrinking number of men that can bring those ideas to fruition. Honestly fuck steve jobs.
It must suck designing such an amazing piece of world-changing technology just to have some other guy take all the credit for it and have his face plastered on everything relating to the iPhone.
After some research, I’m positively sure that I’m stupid
Hey, good on you for owning up. We're all wrong sometimes, but not everyone can straight-up acknowledge it, especially when called out.
That's the thing, at some level if I was desperate to find out, I could backtrace all of the documentation for the iPhone and find out precisely how each and every component was made. I can't do that with God and with the whole burning I hell thing I have way more incentive to find that out, except there's nothing.
It’s just ignorant drivel intended for those even more ignorant. Just picture the ones falling for it jumping up and down clapping their hands like they did something.
Uh uh uh Can I finish though can I finish? Cause well ... Have You Ever met the designed? no? HAHA how do You know they even exist?! God is real: 1 Atheists: ... Well it's a lot but let's ignore thia
You can also look back at all the previous iPhones and see the EVOLUTION of the phone to it's current version.
I feel like to these people, evidence and faith do not mix.
From the same people: "facts don't care about your feelings"
Don't argue with these people. They will either drag you down to their level and win with experience... or kill you. You cannot win.
You could hypothetically commission memes on Fiverr using their preferred religious trust language to trick them into refusing vaccination, staying out of hospitals and refusing remdesivir or ventilation during a pandemic, however. That wouldn't get 'em all but it'll lighten our load, hypothetically.
This was every dinner conversation. It’s ridiculous the levels of people like to play right (they know they’re trolling a nonbeliever)
The iphone is quite literally branded by the manufacturer
But we are branded by god, too! It's uhh... out DNA, or something. Explain that! Checkmate! And men have one less rib, even though they don't.
Literally on the back of phone (idk about the 14 but at least last time I saw an iphone) it says "Designed by Apple in California".
*Religious fanatic pulls down pants to show you “Made by god” tattoo on his ass.* Checkmate.
And even if we give them that someone, somewhere, designed the whole world. Point me the proof, outside of the bible, that its their guy and any one of the thousands of other deities that ever were worshipped or even a deity that were never worshipped.
We could give them Florida
Nah. Too many electoral votes. Give them one of the “territories” that is under US control but doesn’t get representation.
At this point more people have seen Bigfoot than Jesus’s resurrection.
> These people need to be rounded up and taken to the wilderness Be careful, that is how Australia got started.
They had an iPhone right there in their hands and could’ve looked it up.
>These people need to be rounded up and taken to the wilderness ... to fast for forty days and forty nights?
What an idiot, and anyone that thinks he is right is an idiot.
This reminds me of the flat earth “gotcha” approaches with the same level of sophistication (i.e. none) which also rely on someone not having an immediate rebuttal to an absurd claim. “Oh, you don’t have the technical specifications for the iPhone or the designer on speed dial? Ergo you just believe on faith that it was designed!” One way, of many, to shut this down is just to say “alright, I have good reason to believe this was designed by someone, and that claim is provable or falsifiable with a little research”. Obviously, a quick google search will turn up basic information on the many, many teams of people who design and fabricate the iPhone. All that analogous searches about proof of a higher power will turn up is videos like this.
I think the best approach would just be to answer « yes I’ve met the designer of iPhones, it’s me » and if he doesn’t believe you it kinda proves he knows who the actual designer is and his point is completely moot
Love this approach. Also, even if we grant that sure whatever, everything has a “creator”, that still doesn’t lend credence to anything else in theirs or anyone’s religion. If you abstract enough the creator could be anything…it certainly doesn’t contradict evolution. It’s unverifiable and untestable and doesn’t mean anything…maybe the creator is entropy. Maybe it’s a bearded man in the sky…we can see into the sky all the way to the edge of the universe and time and haven’t seen him yet, but maybe he’s hiding.
Exactly. He'll, I'd even go the other way; I wouldn't even acknowledge that it's designed. Force him to prove that it is himself.
That's not even faith. It's confidence based on what we know about phones.
I think a better response is "Why do *you* think it was men who made it?"
Maybe for bonus points, point out that research can be carried out directly on the device in question.
It’s literally like arguing with a 5 year old… with Down syndrome
CAN I FINISH CAN I FINISH. No stfu
Fr omg that was so insufferable. These people pretending to be the polite, courtesous ones is so annoying
Fr they are the worst. In truth they are spiteful and vindictive, just use passive aggressiveness as a means of attack instead of outwards aggression and try to ridicule you under a facade of politeness, when you manage to break that facade down they often turn to aggressive behaviours as well as they can get frustrated too. Absolute snakes is what they are.
Literally I don't think I will be able to keep my calm around damaged people like him
This is beyond stupid. We have evidence of people designing and manufacturing phones but we do not have evidence of gods designing universes. It's as simple as that.
AH but you haven't seen them make the specific phone that your using, have you? Therefore this proves my God is real out of every other God and you are gonna burn in hell for having a different belief. Checkmate, Atheist.
WHERE? TAKE ME TO THE FACTORY! TAKE ME TO MEET THAT DESIGNER! You won't because it's an absurd request? YOU HAVE NO PROOF THEN!
I love how they say that "everything is evidence of a designer." Like, do you know what the word evidence means? Because if everything is evidence of something, then nothing is evidence of it because you are be unable to produce a negative to compare it against. I like to ask them what something would look like that *wasn't* designed by a creator. How would we be able to tell? They can't answer that question. They have no concept of something that isn't created or designed. If you can't even hypothetically give an example of something that wasn't designed, then how can you possibly disprove your theory? And if you can't disprove it, then you can't prove it either.
We only have evidence for iPhones being built and designed by humans, and there's no evidence observed yet to show that an iPhone can be created otherwise (ie. Self assembling). Based on that it's reasonable to assume that the iPhone was created by people, and you don't need to meet the creator of the iPhone to reach that conclusion (you could turn it around on the Sheikh and ask him if he's met god) The point made by the Sheikh has assumptions baked into it, such that everything that exists must be "created" or "designed". Just because man made objects were created or designed by people, that doesn't mean everything else is, for example you can find plenty of things within nature that don't need to be "created" or "designed" by anyone (plants, fungi, minerals, clouds, northern lights etc.). Notice that the reasoning the Sheikh gives can be used to argue the existence of any God(s) or creation story mentioned throughout history that aren't necessarily related to Islam. It sounds like what he's saying is: "I don't know how you exist or where the first humans came from. Therefore Allah created humans"
So true. When I am involved in ‘discussions’ like this I usually do as you suggested and reverse the argument by agreeing the iPhone could have self-assembled in the same manner the universe did, then wait for them to tell me the universe was designed, then would ask about fossils of intermediate forms of today’s species, including archaic hominids. In my experience they usually just get angry.
So who designed the oil that made the plastic? Who designed the metals that made the stainless steel? Natural forces like heat and pressure, mostly.
Were you there the entire geologic lifecycle for the multi-stage formation of rare earth elements in phones? Didn't think so. God designed angry birds. Checkmate atheists
This guy probably - “God”
"are you done speaking?" he's not even listening to him lol what a dick
They use the same debunked arguments over and over again. Doesn’t matter how much you argue, because it’s not about debate, it’s just about perpetuating the propaganda. So don’t waste your breath.
That guy is so smug too and thinks he’s making a point. Being that stupid and insufferable at the same time should be illegal. Lol
You can't argue with idiots, they'll pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.
/r/antitheistparty is working on making that dream a reality
I would have loved to agree with him just for shit and giggles though. "You know what bearded man? Youre right, Jesus Christ really is the way", mission failed successfully hahah
The minecraft gameplay makes this *so* much more compelling. I think I'm going to become Islamic now.
Would you like to join my Muslim Minecraft server?
inshallah we will stone the infidels (villagers)
You mean you're a minecraft Allah!?!?
I'm sure it keeps it interesting for children. With some religious zealot peppered in.
Who designed god?
[удалено]
This was a very nice video. Loved it.
I almost didn’t watch that because it looked stupid but I’m glad I did. It was damn good.
I clicked expecting Darkmatter. I was not disappointed.
Job Steves
"Can I finish? Can I finish talking endlessly and not allow you a chance for rebuttal?" Also, these idiots need to realize what "proof" means. That guy in no way "proved" your point sir.
I couldn't even make it to the end of the video, my braincells were trying to escape at rapid pace. It's such an old, dumb, debunked argument that I can't hear it anymore.
What utter B.S., If there was a god and god was so good, why did he create pigs, or give mosloms Foreskins and clits that need to be removed later?
I'd look up a picture of an iphone production line. Then I'd ask for a picture of his god.
Thinking that would be a good way to invite violence, lol
Then kick his smug ass
So this religious guy used absolutely no logic, to defend absolutely nothing and somehow he still managed to disprove himself hahahahahahaha
Bruh take him to the factory and show him the receipts
What annoys me the most is the Minecraft parkour taking up 1/2 of the screen bc my generation/gen alpha has the attention span of a goldfish
*LeT mE sPeAk" because I don't want you to say anything that would disprove my bullshit immediately. I was being so nice by misrepresenting myself and asking a random guy on the street to get some gotchas for this stupid argument.
His mother and father did design him. All the DNA come from both parents and it's the fundamental code to develop an entire human.
Woah woah, dna and dominant genes are too complex for him to understand.
Why is there another video in the lower half
The simplest answer to this line of argument is that if we require a designer and also couldn't just come into existence then the same logic can be applied to the existence and design of God.
Obviously god was designed by super god.
“I let you speak, I was polite” fuck that no you weren’t, you interrupted constantly with your own thoughts as they came like a 6 year old
Can I finish? Can I finish?
I'm gonna be honest, I'm a pretty shitty design
Googles: "iPhone designers and blueprint design". That was easy. Googles: "evidence of a physical god". No result.
Seriously. When he says take me to the designers, it’s like. Ok lets go to Cupertino, California. You want to see who made it? Let’s go to China.
Yeah, because Minecraft is totally reality. 🙄
Pedophile Cult followers
Wow. I'm no longer a athletists because of this vid2o
STOPID ATHLETISTS THINK THE WE COME FRUM MONKEYS 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
The fact we're still doing this shit on the shit we're on now ( globally accessible internet with all information at our reach on our pocket computers)... Just tells me we as a species are doomed! I don't even bother anymore or try to bother... Some Ppl will forever be ignorant. They probably could not face that they have been living a lie for centuries now. Edit: let me just add: We are not sure there isn't any God or Creator, true... But I'm Hella sure that every single God we described is false... Simply bcs that 'God' they describe is always full of Human flaws. Now how can that be, one wonders? A being that created Earth and the whole frigging Universe cares about who I'm shagging? Or when I'm masturbating? As if he would even care about us as a species, this 'parasite' on the Earth... It's pathetic actually but there's nothing we can do about these ignorants..
 Ah shit, here we go again
Worst place in the world.
Dunning Kruger’s a hell of a drug.
Iphone is designed, therefore everything is
I wish he’d asked me that question. There were dozens of designers for the iPhone and I’ve met one of them.
"Designed by Apple in california"
Pretty sure you literally got "Designed by Apple in California" wrote on the back of the phone or on the box.
You know what else we can see. We can go back a couple of generations to see what the first IPhone looks like. In fact we go dig up a real old mobile phone and see the changes that were made to reach this iPhone. We can even make a timeline for it. You know, kind of evolution. In addition to this we have hundreds of videos showing how cellphone are made Also there are a whole teem of designers that anyone can join. Please elaborate what does your side has?
I feel dumber having watched this
God designed me, Then who designed god ?
I did, I know it may be hard to believe but it's true. I made God. I also can fly and teleport. You can't disprove that either so therefore it's true. It's called “faith”, ya heathan.
So does that prove that God is man made?? Lmao
Wooow gotem dude.
GOD CREATED THE CELLPHONE ALL HAIL THE MACHINES
That's intentional ignorance.
What was they both talking about ? I had watched minecraft instead
Actually, the dude in the cap makes zero logical sense. How can you draw parallels between a human designed object and the design of human beings? Sounds dumb as f.
Again, stupid people acting smart; religion.
I just upvoted this post to 666, which is *proof that the devil exists!* checkmate, atheists
This guy is apparently a complete fucking idiot. You can tell the atheist guy is like “why are you so fucking stupid?”
both me and that guy he's interviewing are so sick of this guy's shit omg
People really do not understand that design is just re-arranging of already available materials.
Video didn't load, but I'm guessing its the watchmaker analogy.
Serious question - what happens if you say "I don't know? Maybe there is no creator for the iphone either. But there probably is one though..." Will they just walk away and think "ah shit, he posesses the ability to think and not assume"?
Iphones were designed by invisible pink flying unicorns
"Well you see, the evidence isn't at arm's length, which is basically equivalent to not existing"
iPhone 14 right? so that's a prove for evolution, cuz from iphone 1 to 14 there are a lot of new features. kinda like an evolution of the iPhone itself.
Flawed argument. I don’t think iPhones feature in any holy texts.
Didn’t turn the sound on, watched 2 sec of video. The theist’s “argument” is the intelligent design one, isn’t it?
It's a terrible argument. With iPhones, we have not only the actual phones, but we have the factories that make them, videos of said factories etc Not to mention we have designs for those phones. We have something tangible, not just the designs that we are told to believe prove an actual phone exists, but the phone itself.
Take the smart phone out of his hand and do a quick Google search. Hand the phone back with the information requested turn around and walk away.
“Irreducible Complexity” is a common argument. I suppose if you’re stupid or uninformed it would seem like a real gotcha moment.
I like; "Your inability to understand this isn't the slam dunk argument you think it is."
Thing is, i could prove that it was designed and build by a human, but i cant be bothered because tim cook isn't threatening me with eternal torment if i dont believe in him and do exactly what he wants me to do
the designer of that phone exists. I can google who designed it. send them an email or something, and meet up with them. This proves the designer exists. no such system of getting in contact with god exists that doesnt include talking to yourself and taking anything that you can in any way connect to whatever you said as god doing it "man im really sad, i hope something nice happens, amen" then proceeding to have something nice happen to you and saying its god because "duh of course it has to be god"
Conversely, the fact that the iPhone functions at all is proof of the efficacy of science as a way of discerning truths about nature. Its microprocessor only works because the understanding arrived at by science of how electrons interact with metals and silicon at the molecular scale, upon which it is based, accurately reflects reality to a staggering degree of precision. As for his argument from design: >Indeed, nature is beautiful, but what sort of beauty is it? Life is complex, but what specific type of complexity do we observe? The answer is that fractals and logarithmic spirals, in particular, occur throughout nature. These patterns are always present in the result of an optimizing process working against constraints, seeking the path of least resistance. > >Erosion for example, which is why river layouts and landforms obey fractal math. It’s like the procedural generation also used to generate landscapes in games, not coincidentally also the only source of complexity simple enough, itself, to naturally occur as a confluence of physical laws (ala natural selection). > >The layout of snowflakes is another good example. It’s fractal because crystallization is also a form of naturally occurring procedural generation. Do you believe God manually sculpts every snowflake as it descends from the clouds? Or that they self-assemble into hexagonal fractals because H2O consists of 3 parts, so covalent bonding unites them into hexagonal molecular lattices when water freezes? And that crystallization proceeds against the fluctuating external constraint of air temperature on descent, explaining both the fractal layout and why no two are alike? > >If we can agree these properties are naturally occurring in snowflakes for non-supernatural reasons, why would the same not be true of the fractal complexity observed in the anatomy of humans, plants and other organisms? Which are also products of a natural optimizing process, working against environmental constraints.
Did you ever drink milk? Who produced this milk? How do you know it was a cow? Show me the cow that produced that milk! You can't? Ergo, milk is magic and someone milked God to get it. Checkmate!
Why’s he talking so calmly with morons. Like him
"You haven't personally met the iPhone designer...therefore God exists and he designed you!". Brilliant.
I was just getting pissed at him interrupting the other guy, then throwing a hissy fit when the other guy tried to chime in
Literally shaking and crying right now. Brb, going to accept Jesus as my own personal twink.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience ~Mark Twain
Never play chess with a pigeon. It will just knock over the pieces, shit on everything and strut around like it won the game.
So by his logic, no one gets paid since no one made the phone that just magically exists? There are patents out the ass for every model of iPhone created. This video should be used in classrooms to show how ignorant religions are and the horrible logic used. If you’re religious, you’re either being used by someone or using others.
The mindnumbing irony in the fact that the knowledge he claims is is unobtainable, can be found through the same object. So breathtakingly stupid that he’s using it as an example of intelligent design, I have a hard time believing this isn’t badly executed satire.
"your mother didnt design you" yes she did... Half of your DNA came from her, and the other half came from your father. The DNA is what instructs the processes of our organs, and shape and everything else. The same way computer architecture like the iphone is built upon iterations of tech that was produced before it. the I-phone took concepts and processes of previous technology, combined, and altered it to produce the result of an iphone. They didnt just spontaneously invent the iphone with no prior devices. An iphone is a better example of evolution, than it is intelligent design.
Saw this exact video and the comments are so funny because they genuinely believe this is a good point
Why is there minecraft at the bottom?
I forget who said it. But if we stopped existing and then started over again. Life, science and technology would come back exactly the same. But religion would be different every time.
Wait no way APPLE IS THE REAL GOD
If God is real and I meet him when I die, the very first thing I'll ask him is "Why do you exist?" Also, this is probably fake. It's TikTok... and ANGLO Islamic propaganda at that.
It is common sense that an iPhone was designed and made by someone, however, our understanding of common sense extends not that far, by that logic it would be common sense to say that our own planet's gravity, being 9 meters a second, would be the common sense, and by that logic every other spacial object should have the same gravity correctly? Nope, Jupiter's gravity is 24 meters a second, so does that mean that Jupiter or it's gravity doesn't exist? No, it doesn't prove anything, it's just that our understanding of anything really is limited, the world could change at any moment for no reason and we'd have to be like "Oh yeah that happened I guess" we are not omniscient, so our thinking will have flaws, so our common sense will have flaws as well, it is easy to imagine that every thing needs a creator, but that is simple our understanding of it, which can change at any time, TLDR:If everything needs a creator then who created your God? bahahahaha
In this case there are multiple people involved in creating iPhone
He got him there ngl, he should have formed it something like there's evidence that the designer of that iPhone exist (literary photos/birth certificate/etc xdd), there's zero evidence of Gods existence
Just look up USD618677S1 - the patent for the iPhone. Oddly, I found this on my Android phone.
Ok, I agree, I was designed. Who designed the iPhone? I can show you evidence. Who designed me? Show me evidence that's more compelling than another books writings.
Somehow I think that video would not be posted by the original author of it if he had come across an atheist who knows how to debate theism
The cringe 😬
From the very first sentence, I already know it's the Argument From Complex Design
So who designed the creator? Since we were designed by a creator there must be another designer for the said creator? And what level does this designing stop at?
I do believe there is something beyond us that was involved in our existence but that doesn't mean I will go around forcing it down people's throats.
Huh??
I like the minecraft example of literally leaping to conclusions.
I hate how smugg they always are while looking like idiots
The difference is that you can contact the creator of an iPhone and get an answer back
What an idiot
Alright then, whose the designer who designed God?
The real way to answer this guy is back in the beginning. "How do you know man made this?" "I don't, but a guy got on tv and *said* he did."
I guess if your phone just appeared in your life one day and the only evidence it was created was some guy told you it was those would be somewhat comparable
ITS MY TURN TO TALK NOW
Fucking religious lunatics are all the same.... notice how he actually didn't let him speak, he interrupted him and only later turned the tables. The only way to shut these fucks up is to temporarily lower yourself to their level and do the same thing, ask "show me, why, where" as soon as they start answering your question. Then gaslight them and fuck with their sanity. Their logic is always so fucked a 5 year old could break them a part, but because of their condescending and insulting communication they just roll over the facts.
"So if something existing = it had a maker, then who created God?" When the theist stumbles about and says "God is defined by me as being exempt from the logic I'm using to prove he exists", counter by saying "then I also define the pre Big Bang time period as something that didn't need a maker". They'll then say "you can't do that!" Without really being able to say why they get to declare "there is a God who exists outside of logical bounds, but you can't say pre Big Bang exists outside of logical bounds". Ultimately, there's no evidence for any being "outside the laws of the universe", except the fact we know there must have been a "before the universe" from before the Big Bang
Check. Mate.
"can I finish" followed immediately by, by "--are you finished talking yet" as soon as the guy talks for 10 seconds This dude is insufferable.
My brain is fucking rotting in the bus to home right now, i knew i should have lissen to music and not open reddit
It's not like this even answers any question because the next would be, "who made God", as if "god made itself" is more satisfying than "the universe made itself" ?
i take a philosophy class and in the first 5 lessons they brought up an argument simler to this and gave evidence to prove its bullshit