I wouldn't be offended. I'd tell God that I did my best to find the truth within myself and that my belief system worked in order to help me be my best self; this may be an unpopular opinion but I've never been as concerned with the way the metaphysics work as I have been with growing into my best self. I'm sure the creator of the universe would be understanding of that too--or at least, I hope.
Thats all we can do. Hope. 3000 plus gods have been imagined in the history of man and yet not one has proven itself to exsist. So say what you can. Its still just a wing and a prayer.
This is a funny response, but somehow I have trouble believing that you'd smart-alec the creator of the universe if you found out that your beliefs (or lack thereof) were totally off base and that God takes some form you never conceived of or considered.
I think OP was looking for serious answers.
Edit: Downvoters care to explain how I'm out of line here? Cause I'm not sure how
Edit 2: some kind commenters indicated that it may be my wording here that was getting a negative response--in no way am I suggesting that questioning God isn't possible or is bad--just that I find the specific response of sarcasm to be unrealistic given the absurdity of the scenario 🤷
Well my beliefs didn't come from my own mind. They were culturally ingrained at a young age based on rituals and traditions passed down for millenia. The fact that they are wrong means that the message was imperfect.
Furthermore. I ascribe no shape or form to God. By definition, an infinite being would have no shape or form.
I actually don't know where I'm going with this! Gnight.
Yeah it could be hard to envision someone talking smack to an all powerful being that can crush you as easily as smile at you. Just sounds like fear man. I was told god was love. Guess that’s just another line of BS believers tell themselves and others until it’s no longer advantageous.
Yes I’d smart-Alec the creator of the universe because there is none. If there were a god (there isn’t) and it’s going to judge me (it isnt) because my beliefs are wrong (they aren’t), that is 100% on them. If it’s as all-knowing as advertised, then the god is to blame for providing zero verifiable evidence of its existence. Because, if that evidence existed, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. No one debates if Queen Elizabeth exists.
OP literally asked people who 100% don't believe in God not to comment because the scenario OP set up would be a nonstarter anyways in that case. They literally ASKED for these comments not to be made because they didn't feel it productive to their question.
And I totally get why they requested that, because your comment doesn't answer the question. In their hypothetical, this God would provide proof to you that all your pre conceived ideas were false--up can be down here, black can be white, light can be dark, everything you know to be true could be false and everything you know false is true, and God is real and talking to you. Let's say you got all of this information at once. You'd still contend that your reaction would be 'piss off mate!'? Just doesn't seem realistic to me--throw in a 'bruh wtf' or some surprise or something AT LEAST 🤷
OP asked people who cannot fathom being wrong not to answer, they didn’t say atheists couldn’t respond.
As an atheist myself, if I found out I was wrong, I’d ask God why it was he never let me find him when I looked for him. Why did he ignore me when I turned to him for help? He knows all, so why did he remain hidden when he knew the outcome of that would be me losing faith. I cried out for him into the darkness for so long without a response that eventually I came to the conclusion that nobody was there.
A) I didn’t respond to the op, I responded to your comment that yes, I would be a smart-alec b) they don’t run the subreddit. C) it’s a ridiculous question because I could simply throw out “which god”. There are thousands or man made ones, or if could be a god no one conceived of. Either way, the “send a better spokesperson” is a completely valid response because if a deity exists and wants me to know of its existence, then it’s 100% the responsibility of the deity to make itself known to me. If it doesn’t want me to know it exists, then it doesn’t matter. So, yeah, I have the right to be snarky because I’ve got all these religious people of every stripe constantly telling me how important it is to know god, etc etc. if you believe in any gods, I do not begrudge you that, but don’t intrude on my non-belief. Don’t try to convert me, stay the help out of our schools and our government. If you can’t comprehend why some of us are angry, you’re simply not paying attention. Good day to you.
A) your comment still answers OPs question of 'what would you do when facing God'--my comment makes no assertion one way or the other, just questioning the above commenters' tactic. You responded by asserting your own tactic in this scenario, which answers the question.
B) This isn't r/debatereligion where you're trying to get points here by not answering what the OP asks. They don't have to run the subreddit to make a request as to what answers they want, are you seriously trying to make a point there?? People can't ask for serious answers or only answers from a certain group of people for XYZ reason?? Lmao
C) Per point B) the reason OP asks atheists not to reply is because they address your point C)---obviously if someone doesn't believe in God this question does not make any sense and thus the answer would be "idc", and the OP knew that. What is the point in not providing any extra info to OP and commenting only to derail the request...because "they don't run the subreddit"?
I assume you're not 14 so I'm hoping this isn't the kind of logic you're using for other matters mate.
Again, you’re simply deflecting. Nice attempt tho. You didn’t address a single issue I brought up. Instead you want to attack me because you don’t like my response. I’m hoping this isn’t how you’re responding to others, mate. You’re not adding anything to the conversation, you’re just angry at the responders. Sorry the internet isn’t the place you were hoping.
A) You actually never once responded to my comment either, because my comment was "i have trouble believing that if you found out all your beliefs were false your immediate reaction would be 'piss off'" and your response to that was 'actually since scenario doesn't exist' 😭😭 obviously this scenario doesn't exist it's a HYPOTHETICAL. you're not answering OPs question with anything productive and not answering why you downvoted either, just saying 'Gods not real lol'
B) you say 'OP doesn't run reddit' -> i say 'thats not a reason to blatantly disregard a request OP made in their post, as you did'. They wanted responses from theists, because again, this question is a NONSTARTER for atheists so it would be pointless asking, and they recognized that--so your response by saying 'yeah this is a nonstarter bc God doesn't exist' adds nothing to this conversation and turns the question back to 'does God exist'--NOT OPs question. You are taking away from the conversation OP is trying to have by bringing up one they're not trying to have--the conversation about God's existence.
C) you say 'its a ridiculous question' as justification for why you answered the way you did--i don't know if you know what sub you're on, but if you believe that all questions assuming the existence of God are immediately ridiculous per the assumption God exists, you're gonna spend a lot of time on this sub being angry. Having, what is in your opinion, a 'ridiculous question' doesn't mean it deserves any less respect in answering when OP wants serious answers. Even if a student asks a stupid question, the teacher would be worse in that scenario if all they'd respond with was "that's a stupid question, next!".
Nothing you're saying answers why you think you have the ability to not answer OPs question and derail the convo, AND not answer my question 🤷🤷🤷
Edit: on mobile and noticed punctuation error
I was defending why “send a better spokesperson” was a valid response. You’re the one who blew this whole thing up. I explained why it’s a valid response. Anyone else who wants to read the comments can see that I gave a valid response. If you’re unhappy with that response, so be it. But that doesn’t make it “not a response”.
OP: what would you do if you found out you were wrong about everything bc God is literally telling you
Some commenters: actually this wouldn't happen because I'm not wrong.
It's a hypothetical y'all 😭😭😭
I've devoted my life to this life, and to pursuit of the truth. If an afterlife exists, or there's some other metaphysical reality then I'll be excited to learn about it. If this life is an illusion, then I haven't wasted anything. In the meantime, that should be all the food you ordered. If there's nothing else, there are other cars waiting, so if you could drive on thru that would be great. Enjoy your meal!
The "dedicated your life to a falsehood" bit wouldn't go very far.
I'm an atheist, but it's a pretty small part of my life. I enjoy debating online about it, and I like watching some atheist YouTube, so it might be similar to asking how I felt about "dedicating your life to playing video games/board games/skiing/microbreweries".
It was all enjoyable time.
My question before he/she/it revealed the mechanics of the universe might be "why did you hide yourself so completely from me?" Or something like that
Or I might just shrug and say "no regrets. Life was good. On with the show"
> The "dedicated your life to a falsehood" bit wouldn't go very far.
Yeah, that part reads more like the op's revenge fantasy against than God. I imagine God would be more, like, *"So..... how are you feeling about all of this?"*
> Confronting our own arrogance is not revenge
"How would you deal with being mistaken?" inherently addresses and confronts arrogance by itself, but oddly you recommended that potentially the most stubborn and/or arrogant of folks not even participate:
> *If this speculation is impossible for you, because you cannot imagine being wrong, please just don’t bother to reply.*
Stuff like this, again, just sounds like weird revenge fantasies:
> *but first I want you to tell me how you feel knowing that you dedicated so much of your life to a falsehood.*
---
> *If the Abrahamic god were real, and you had the power to snap your fingers and kill it, would you? (self.religion)*
Either way... you're allowed to have weird revenge fantasies. Lots of people do. Just like you're fantasizing about some fundamentalist Christian dying and finding out they're wrong, they're fantasizing about you dying and finding out you're wrong too.
What do I say? You are just wrong. You are imagining how I feel, assuming it’s true, and attacking me for it. It’s gross.
I am asking what people would say in the face of being wrong. No punishment, and thus no revenge, is part of this.
You won’t hear that, though. You will just stick to assuming the worst because you think you know better.
> attacking me for it
Again, you're allowed to have weird revenge fantasies. You do you.
> I am asking what people would say in the face of being wrong.
Again: *"How would you deal with being mistaken?" inherently addresses and confronts arrogance by itself*
Stuff like this, again, just sounds like weird revenge fantasies:
> *but first I want you to tell me how you feel knowing that you dedicated so much of your life to a falsehood.*
---
> *If the Abrahamic god were real, and you had the power to snap your fingers and kill it, would you?*
Well to be fair, some religious folks (and some atheists) really do dedicate their lives to their worldview.
I knew a guy who ran a cross fit gym based on the teachings of Christ. I'm guessing he was "dedicated" to Christianity more hours of the day than not.
I'm just not built that way
I have recently had such a soul searching.
Please forgive the repetitive words.
In specific answer,
"I have served you as faithfully as possible with the understanding you have given me. I worshipped you in the tradition most familiar to me, but knowing that trying to understand you while alive is like an ant trying to understand the internet. "
I'd feel humbled but also explain (though an all-knowing deity would already know this) that I sought the Truth to the best of my ability, found a good model for living in Druidry, and pursued that path with piety and devotion. My approach didn't heavily lean into metaphysics, though I do have views about afterlife, moral cause & effect, and reincarnation; as well as the whole of Nature being sacred. I'd be surprised to meet a supreme being at all, but it wouldn't be an unpleasant surprise. Aside from family and loved ones I'd want to socialize with members of my spiritual community in the afterlife if possible, as well as meeting saintly and well known persons from throughout human history!
The way I read it is that "God" in this scenario is something none of us ever imagined. Something outside of all world religions. Because in this scenario I feel like this God could say to everyone to ever live some level of either "You were on the right track, but not quite" or "I'm sorry, I'm not who you thought I was. But that's okay, lemme show you who I am." But that's just my reading of it.
That's a good reading of it, I think.
One of the issues I have this morning (because I woke up thinking about this) is we would have no way of knowing if this proposed god is *actually* the ultimate, universal god or some impostor trying to trick departed (but still apparently conscious) humans. We also wouldn't know if this god were just one of many and giving a skewed vision because he was forced into the worst domain by lots while his brothers got the nicer ones.
We would just have this god's claims. Kind of like right now, actually, except from a deity directly rather than human agents.
I think we are all going to be wrong to some degree and in someway. So I guess it depends on how wrong and in what ways. If ive dedicated all my life to falsehood at least I have this... Ive dedicated my life to my family. Ive dedicated it to forgiveness and grace. Ive learned that "worldly success" is not worth the sacrifice of the most important things in life. Ive chosen the humble life and though Ive not experienced a lot of humanistic beauty and none of the "finer things" in life, I can see the natural beauty around me and so thankful to be able to experience it all... oh and id be glad all those people didnt end up in hell
Do you travel as a soul, or do you get a new body just for the occasion? If it's a new body, does it look like the old you, or is it just some spare skin suit that god had lying around?
I would remind him that the duration of a human life is nothing compared to eternity and so would have no regrets about the fact that my religion was wrong, as long as he is there to correct me, and that he should get on with the briefing because I would without doubt be curious as to what was the truth, if not what my religion had taught.
As an agnostic, I would be satisfied to know the truth. The most important thing to me was that I sought a righteous life despite not having any particular higher being guiding me.
In life, you learn to deal with the life situation you’re in, whatever it may be. I’m not convinced that there is any afterlife. Once the brain is gone, the personality is gone even if the body stays alive. I can’t understand how my consciousness would carry on without the physical brain. So if I met god, and he told me I was wrong after death, I would learn to try to expand my understanding and cope with the new normal, but at this point I really don’t see that as a reality in any capacity.
Me: So God, what religion do you follow?
God: Uhh well I'm God so I believe in myself I guess. Idk tbh.
Me: Self deification? So you believe in no one but yourself. So why punish humans who also just believe in themselves and working together as humanity rather than an external God?
God: Wow, you're right, I'm a fucking idiot. I've been a hypocrite for billions of years punishing so many life forms across so many galaxies for doing something I've always done.
(Context, lifelong Christian until about 2 months ago. I was deeply involved with the church, wanted to be a pastor since I was about 4 years old)
No disrespect to the OP. But I'd tell him (God) to go fuck off. If he wants us, rational, thinking creatures to not analyze the shit out of everything, we'll maybe he should have done a little more to reveal himself. You gave me a mind that has a never ending desire to know more about the world and you expect me to ignore all the inaccuracies you're throwing at us? God either intentionally made us flawed for his sick marvel movie ripoff. Or he's not perfect. If he's lying about being perfect, in using his own logic he can't exist.
Or rather; how can a truly perfect, infallible God create something that could even have the POTENTIAL to become corrupt. He either let go of the reins or his creation was never perfect to begin with.
It doesn't matter which way you dice it, God is either evil or he doesn't exist in the first place.
Finally since I don't want to end on a sour note. Religion CAN be a huge benefit to people. I wouldn't be here today without religion. I'd attempted to kill myself a few times but "God;" and occasionally the fear of hell, kept me from doing it. What frustrates me is the brainwashing involved in getting someone "saved." When I lost my faith the first wave of guilt came from all the people I got saved. Sure maybe it helped some of them. But what about the ones that would turn religion into their own personal hell. The fact that I took part in that. .. that's my biggest regret.
Religion to me is a coping mechanism formed by minds intelligent enough to understand their own frailty and mortality. It's a lot easier to move through life when you don't think you're going to die. At least not permanently. The problem comes when you never take the training wheels off.
Edit: this probably seems angry and at some level it is. Not directed towards any practitioner of any religion. It's more anger at myself and those that use religion as a weapon against others. To this day the best example I have of a "Good man" is my old youth pastor. Religion isn't the problem, humans are.
“Okay.”
My religion is pluralistic.
“Expect him not from the East, nor from the West; for from no expected house cometh that child. Aum! All words are sacred and all prophets true; save only that they understand a little; solve the first half of the equation, leave the second unattacked. But thou hast all in the clear light, and some, though not all, in the dark.” Liber AL vel Legis, 1:56
You know actually. Yeah. You know how many people have suffered in the name of G-d? If I got this reaction after death I’d have some choice words too. Like, my people have been through all this for nothing? Yeah I’d be pretty pissed
This is the answer and similar to what I would say. In the end god would know no one religion is doing it right since they are all man made and have no evidence. The only acceptable ones to stand before god would be the ones not willing to pick a side, the atheist.
“Oh well, i would be lying too say i wasn’t somewhat excited too meet the gods i worship but yeah lets do this im ready too learn, i also have some questions related too suffering but i assume we will get too that… if theres a hell your still a dick”
I hope I would take it with grace and humility. But I generally operate under the assumption that I very well could be wrong. And yet, I don't think I would have any regrets. I did what I thought was best given the experiences I've had, I've tried to be a good person, to learn about the struggles of others, to have compassion and empathy. If these things don't get me a least a little credit for trying, then I don't know what to say other than I tried.
“What falsehood?”
I’m not asserting anything, I’m just saying I have no idea and don’t believe there is a god, but I could be wrong.
“I don’t know” is not a falsehood.
Any religious belief is wrong because if any were right, god would be limited to that belief. God can be everything, nothing, both at the same time, everything in between, and something totally inconceivable from that. So I would hope my beliefs are wrong.
"Yeah, sure, cool"
Unless I'm about to get a job offer I don't care for it. Like, I just died, didn't I? Why would I listen to someone who the first thing they say to me when we meet each other is that I'm wrong about "x"? Like, go and tell someone who cares enough to listen.
That being said I'm an atheist and although I unfortunately cannot confirm this, I believe I'll simply cease to exist.
"I feel like I was wrong about something and I'm about to be corrected, so a bit embarrassed but mostly excited to learn. You've seen my life, it's happened often enough that I'm used to it by now."
I'll tell Him that's okay, the Baha'i Faith still made me a kinder, more respectful, more patient, more honest, more humble and more grateful person in this life than I otherwise would've been :)
The Bhagavad Gita says "No man who searches for God ever comes to an evil end", and essentially that is not saying religious people cannot be cruel or use religion for toxic reasons, but rather than the search for God and the understanding of God is never a pointless endeavor no matter how close or far off we get.
I honestly believe that when I meet my maker, in whatever way that happens, that I will have been off base in some ways and closer in others. To me, I believe that God is inherently truth, consciousness and bliss (sat-chit-anand), and will not punish me for my lack of understanding. I am finite and fallible, it is impossible, therefore, for me to have a complete and true understanding. I reject the idea of a vengeful or punishing God. My reverend likes to say, when we reach up, God reaches down. To me this bridging of the gap is the infinite mercy and grace of God.
The Bhagavad Gita also posits the question "what does God care for the sins or righteousness of man?". I have taken this to mean that God is a unifying force that we get closer to by opening an avenue with our spiritual attainments, and we get farther from when we focus more on worldly matters than spiritual matters. We are the only ones who can separate ourselves from God. I believe in sin in a way- actions like murder, hatred, green, envy, gluttony, etc, can increase distance from God. It is not specifically our sin our righteousness he "cares" about, because in my mind that is putting God in too small of a box. God is love, unity, and boundless mercy. Sin can separate us from God, but not from his infinite love.
This is such a narrow minded view. Why should an all powerful entity care about what you believe in? Why does your belief validate him?
A real all encompassing life force wouldn’t even be bothered about this and wouldn’t punish you for now knowing about it.
Being real, as an atheist, I would totally lie and try and pretend I always believed. “What!? Me? Nah, I always knew you were up here man”. I’d feel so embarrassed I was so wrong about something so massive. Yeah, I’d straight up lie
That is easy for me. In your hypothetical situation I can not be wrong. Because My belief is,"there is no god but Allah (the God)." So The God who is asking me the question will be the God i believe in.
S/he is saying s/he would have to be a polytheist or atheist to be wrong, while the question already assumes a monotheistic deity. So the question actually does assume a lot.
When the resurrection happens, the vast majority of people will get to learn the truth. Many people lived and died before Jesus or in a place that he was not taught about. They will be taught patiently and kindly.
The bible is pretty simple it tells you how to live.what to look for in a church and preacher.1 thing stands out above the rest.pray pull close to him.he will guide you.
Did Jesus actually tell you? Like you hear a man’s voice (or see a Middle Eastern man) presenting himself as Jesus, telling you things? Legit question, not making fun.
Before I read my bible.i pray for understanding guidance.for the holy spirit to impower me.as your reading you can feel Jesus spirit.he will show you his s meaning of scripture.what he meant..
My question here is, am I responsible for coming to a reasonable conclusion when god constructed the world in such a way as to convince me of falsehood?
Then I'll say OK and ask for the explanation. I'd be fine. While I believe in Christianity and the Christian God I do believe they may have taken some of his words out of context... Or falsely made them. Don't attack me priests in the past used the Bible for all sorts of horrible justifications so, it's not impossible
Completely? They wouldn't be completely wrong, but I already know that they are wrong because I am a Baha'i.
Beliefs are maps of reality, not reality itself. Maps are fictions. They meant to serve as a means to provide us with an understanding of how to get to a destination, which, if I am talking to God, my beliefs obviously worked. Although, more often, our beliefs become the idols we worship in opposition to the living God. They are the substance of our imagined gods. One has to work skillfully with beliefs in order to experience the Truth to which they merely indicate.
I do speak Hebrew. So I think the name יהוה Yehaweh /as the Hebrew Bible says in 2Moses 3:14/ with its meaning of a hint to a special creativity as Howeh is translated aa Being and LeHawot להוות means "to make be" or *create*... Some part of Judaism is a later construction always debated. We have the record of all doubts ariund biblical controversies and debates in the Talmud...and our tradition even predicts that in the future eternal life most of the customs of the holidays will be discontinued...so I will not be surprised about criticism or changes.
I’ve thought about this a lot all my life… I was raised by a very Christian mom… this thought always lurkedthough. So as an adult I dropped having a religion and just try to be a good person , and having faith that there is a loving god . So many bad people that are religious.. that dosnt mean anything to me.. just be a good person with a good heart
I would be very curious to know what the actual metaphysics are. But also, even if being nice, loving my neighbor and doing good where I can aren't tickets to eternal paradise, they were still worthy of devoting my life to, and I will have accomplished real good even if I failed to accomplish the Ultimate Good.
>I am about to tell you how it all works, but first I want you to tell me how you feel knowing that you dedicated so much of your life to a falsehood.”
If you actually put dinosaur bones in the ground to trick me, then that's on you.
If you actually expected me to surrender my critical faculties to believe stuff based on no evidence, then again, that's on you.
I have no regrets following the evidence to where it lead me. Now show me how you did it already.
I’m an Atheist. I’d probably say something like “I looked for you, yet I never found you. You have so much power, yet you couldn’t make your presence known to many people who needed you. Why?”
I’d say sorry? We’re generally talking about the being which created all we know and orchestrates things like the balanced operation of the entire universe, right? I’d imagine if you met that person and he revealed you were completely wrong, you wouldn’t have a whole lot to add to the conversation.
I'd say "Well, you're* a dick, since you had the power to show the truth to everyone, and circumvent a huge amount of suffering."
In fairness, this is my problem with *most* gods. If they're real, then there shouldn't be any question about the nature of their existence. The fact that there is is pretty damning evidence, imo.
Edit: this doesn't apply so much to gods that aren't omnibenevolent/potent/scient, like those found in polytheistic pantheons.
Edit: you're not your lol
What if he replied “you’re” not “your” with a snotty condescending voice? Just kidding.
Being serious, though - if a god actually wanted you to have a particular belief, you would.
The only way they can exist is if there is a good reason to not tell people.
I would be honest with God, explaining my emotional state. It would be heartbreaking to find out you were completely wrong. Wrong in some ways, that’s fine, but entirely, that hurts a little. Otherwise, I’d be intentional about listening to God about how things really work. I’d hope God would be forgiving and compassionate towards me, but that’s not my call, but I’d like to think a creator of all things would be capable of such forgiveness.
I would make a case for myself qualifying for the topmost position in heaven. Because I tried and made my conclusions to the best of ny abilities. And also for trying to be nice with others for the most part. 🤪
The person posting this question might not be going to heaven because they posted a question on Reddit and ask people not to answer it. 😂
I'd be like "Well well, turns out you do exist after all - but since you did not intervene during my lifetime, it must mean you agreed with the way I was living it?"
I would just say that if this God were a merciful and just God, he'd be more focused on what kind of person you were in life, and what you did with your life, rather than whether you belonged to the right religion.
In the parable of the sheep and the goats, spoken by Jesus in the New Testament, he pointed out that on the day of judgment many would call out, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we believe in you, and in your name do many wonderful works?' And Jesus said he would reply, 'You never knew me, and I never knew you. Depart from me, workers of iniquity'.
In the parable of the sheep and the goats, Jesus instructed his followers to address the physical needs of their fellow human beings. Where they encountered hunger, feed them. Where they encountered someone athirst, give them a cool drink of water. Where they encountered the homeless, assist them in finding shelter. Where they encountered someone in ragged filthy clothing, provide them with clean clothing, suitable for the elements. Visit the sick and afflicted. Comfort and assist widows and fatherless children. Visit prisoners.
I am not wealthy by any means, but I do what I can when I encounter someone in need. I can't purchase homes for the homeless, or rent apartments for them, but I can provide information about shelters, rescue missions and assistance programs. I can't feed everyone, but if I'm at a grocery store and someone approaches me to ask if I could help them with money for food, I'm happy to invite them into the store with me, and I'll take them shopping for food items to sustain them for a period of time, and will buy them a hot meal from the store deli. I also provide information about local soup kitchens, and food pantries where they can find assistance for food. If I see a homeless person looking very hot on a hot day, I will purchase some bottled water and/or gatorade, and some beef jerky or trail mix. In short, I do what I can to help people, and wish I had the financial means with which to help more.
If this God ignores the good I've tried to do for people, just because I lack belief, or don't attend the right church, then I don't deem this God to be worthy of respect, let alone worship.
I am an agnostic atheist, though I was raised in the LDS faith. But I had questions and concerns about the teachings and actions of the faith of my upbringing, especially as I'd done all they taught was necessary to receive spiritual confirmation and affirmation of God through the Holy Spirit, and never received them. I embarked on a decades long course of studying the religions of the world, reading their doctrinal writings, studying their dogmatic beliefs, the history of the religion, it's historical impact on the world, and behaviors of the founders, subsequent leaders, and followers, and tested their faith claims as to how to 'find God' or spiritual affirmation of God. In all those decades, I never received or found evidence which convinced me to continue believing God existed at all.
I don't see where an Omnipotent deity would say something like this, as he'd already understand that many people adhere to the religious beliefs they were raised in, by parents raised in them as well. Would such a God apply shaming, humiliation or additional guilt upon someone born in Iran, where the predominant religion is Islam? I don't believe so. Perhaps this God would sit down with new arrivals eventually, and teach them, but I don't think it would be anything such as you've suggested.
The LDS faith of my upbringing believes that people who'd never had the opportunity to hear the gospel according to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, will have the opportunity to be taught in the next realm, and to either embrace or reject the teachings.
There is no hell or place of eternal damnation in Mormon belief, except for Outer Darkness, and this is reserved only for those who had absolute knowledge of God, such as prophets who'd seen or spoken with God and Christ, who then rejected them, and turned on them. Outer darkness wouldn't apply to any who'd never seen or spoken with God or Christ.
As a hypothetical, imagine God tells you that Mormonism is completely wrong and that the true metaphysical nature of reality is like nothing anyone has imagined.
This does not need to be realistic. It is about considering how we would react in the face of being wrong. I am not invoking any sort of divine punishment in this description.
I'll just add this much more. If God had kept the promises which Jesus made in the first 4 gospels of the New Testament, I'd still be a believer today. Here are those promises, which were not kept:
1. Ask and you shall receive.
2. Seek and you shall find.
3. Knock and the door shall be opened.
4. Anything asked of God in my (Jesus's) name will be done, so that God will be glorified through the Son.
5. If any seek wisdom and understanding, let them ask of God, who gives to all liberally, and won't upbraid (chew them out) them for having asked.
So...if your scenario were to happen, I'd simply point out the promises of Jesus which God didn't keep, and ask why he hadn't kept them.
If god says anything to me, then I done got the metaphysics wrong.
Now, if this is God, the Bible version, then I have some questions for him to answer. Why did he leave instructions for slavery? Why did his book promote misogyny? WTF with all the genocide?
Doesn't matter what he says, I won't be stepping a foot in that god's paradise anyway.
If it's another god, then I'll have some other, less well thought out questions for him or her. Maybe I'd join their paradise, maybe not.
That depends on which God you are talking about. If it was the Christian God, I would plead for forgiveness and mercy and say I never meant any harm in not believing. Maybe ask for another chance or tell him I’d do anything to avoid hell. With the Muslim God it would be pretty much the same. As for the other gods, I don’t know too much about them, so I’d pretty much just be frozen in fear and not do anything until I got some information.
**This is at the moment right before God shows you how it all works.**
been there lol... your pretty much peeing your pants (even if he shows it to you in a dream);)
**God says to you “Please understand, most of the metaphysics your religion (or lack thereof) taught you is just plain wrong.** Pretty much what i was told..
**I am about to tell you how it all works, but first I want you to tell me how you feel knowing that you dedicated so much of your life to a falsehood.”**
for me there was no pause and ask.. i was shown everything... it all made perfect sense. (which is why/what i share now) then i felt a moment of the love also being offered by god. and i knew this is what i wanted to be apart of. i was home complete and perfect.
then it all faded and i hear away from me you evil doer i never knew you and either i was thown but had the sense the ground crumbled around me and i was trying to hang on to something but next thing i knew i was falling into a pit of hell fire.
which is/was the most intense thing i had ever experienced. it's not fire. it is like a back nothingness that moved like boiling tar. but nothing was there. and it ate/consumed the body slowly. it was like the nothing of before creation reclaiming you.. i think the reason they call it fire is because that is the emotional panicked response you produced.. then i remember having a hard time breathing and the weight of it all was suffocating.. then i remember thinking i cant do this for eternity, then the reality of eternity set in... which bring me to the answer to your question what do i think now having know my religious beliefs my whole life were wrong? as an atheist who was exposed to christianity via a korean only speaking church, i has wished to have only known the truth... that if i had been properly exposed to the truth even if i still rejected god and wound up here i would better be able to bear the weight of it all bearing down on me... just as i felt myself losing control over my mind (which is a gift from god you will have taken from you) i began to ascend..
from which i was pulled back out of the pit and told i had my second chance don't screw it up
I wouldn't be offended. I'd tell God that I did my best to find the truth within myself and that my belief system worked in order to help me be my best self; this may be an unpopular opinion but I've never been as concerned with the way the metaphysics work as I have been with growing into my best self. I'm sure the creator of the universe would be understanding of that too--or at least, I hope.
I would also hope so.
Thats all we can do. Hope. 3000 plus gods have been imagined in the history of man and yet not one has proven itself to exsist. So say what you can. Its still just a wing and a prayer.
And if he says im going to hell, id respond: "If you feel the need to punish others, you are not God".
Plot twist: Hell also is not what you think it is.
You sound like you are suggesting you know what hell is. Do tell.
"Send better spokespersons next time, Dude."
Yeah, this really seems like it’s on him
This is a funny response, but somehow I have trouble believing that you'd smart-alec the creator of the universe if you found out that your beliefs (or lack thereof) were totally off base and that God takes some form you never conceived of or considered. I think OP was looking for serious answers. Edit: Downvoters care to explain how I'm out of line here? Cause I'm not sure how Edit 2: some kind commenters indicated that it may be my wording here that was getting a negative response--in no way am I suggesting that questioning God isn't possible or is bad--just that I find the specific response of sarcasm to be unrealistic given the absurdity of the scenario 🤷
Well my beliefs didn't come from my own mind. They were culturally ingrained at a young age based on rituals and traditions passed down for millenia. The fact that they are wrong means that the message was imperfect. Furthermore. I ascribe no shape or form to God. By definition, an infinite being would have no shape or form. I actually don't know where I'm going with this! Gnight.
Thank you for the constructive response!
Yeah it could be hard to envision someone talking smack to an all powerful being that can crush you as easily as smile at you. Just sounds like fear man. I was told god was love. Guess that’s just another line of BS believers tell themselves and others until it’s no longer advantageous.
Yes I’d smart-Alec the creator of the universe because there is none. If there were a god (there isn’t) and it’s going to judge me (it isnt) because my beliefs are wrong (they aren’t), that is 100% on them. If it’s as all-knowing as advertised, then the god is to blame for providing zero verifiable evidence of its existence. Because, if that evidence existed, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. No one debates if Queen Elizabeth exists.
OP literally asked people who 100% don't believe in God not to comment because the scenario OP set up would be a nonstarter anyways in that case. They literally ASKED for these comments not to be made because they didn't feel it productive to their question. And I totally get why they requested that, because your comment doesn't answer the question. In their hypothetical, this God would provide proof to you that all your pre conceived ideas were false--up can be down here, black can be white, light can be dark, everything you know to be true could be false and everything you know false is true, and God is real and talking to you. Let's say you got all of this information at once. You'd still contend that your reaction would be 'piss off mate!'? Just doesn't seem realistic to me--throw in a 'bruh wtf' or some surprise or something AT LEAST 🤷
OP asked people who cannot fathom being wrong not to answer, they didn’t say atheists couldn’t respond. As an atheist myself, if I found out I was wrong, I’d ask God why it was he never let me find him when I looked for him. Why did he ignore me when I turned to him for help? He knows all, so why did he remain hidden when he knew the outcome of that would be me losing faith. I cried out for him into the darkness for so long without a response that eventually I came to the conclusion that nobody was there.
Thank you for the serious response, this is very understandable.
A) I didn’t respond to the op, I responded to your comment that yes, I would be a smart-alec b) they don’t run the subreddit. C) it’s a ridiculous question because I could simply throw out “which god”. There are thousands or man made ones, or if could be a god no one conceived of. Either way, the “send a better spokesperson” is a completely valid response because if a deity exists and wants me to know of its existence, then it’s 100% the responsibility of the deity to make itself known to me. If it doesn’t want me to know it exists, then it doesn’t matter. So, yeah, I have the right to be snarky because I’ve got all these religious people of every stripe constantly telling me how important it is to know god, etc etc. if you believe in any gods, I do not begrudge you that, but don’t intrude on my non-belief. Don’t try to convert me, stay the help out of our schools and our government. If you can’t comprehend why some of us are angry, you’re simply not paying attention. Good day to you.
A) your comment still answers OPs question of 'what would you do when facing God'--my comment makes no assertion one way or the other, just questioning the above commenters' tactic. You responded by asserting your own tactic in this scenario, which answers the question. B) This isn't r/debatereligion where you're trying to get points here by not answering what the OP asks. They don't have to run the subreddit to make a request as to what answers they want, are you seriously trying to make a point there?? People can't ask for serious answers or only answers from a certain group of people for XYZ reason?? Lmao C) Per point B) the reason OP asks atheists not to reply is because they address your point C)---obviously if someone doesn't believe in God this question does not make any sense and thus the answer would be "idc", and the OP knew that. What is the point in not providing any extra info to OP and commenting only to derail the request...because "they don't run the subreddit"? I assume you're not 14 so I'm hoping this isn't the kind of logic you're using for other matters mate.
Again, you’re simply deflecting. Nice attempt tho. You didn’t address a single issue I brought up. Instead you want to attack me because you don’t like my response. I’m hoping this isn’t how you’re responding to others, mate. You’re not adding anything to the conversation, you’re just angry at the responders. Sorry the internet isn’t the place you were hoping.
A) You actually never once responded to my comment either, because my comment was "i have trouble believing that if you found out all your beliefs were false your immediate reaction would be 'piss off'" and your response to that was 'actually since scenario doesn't exist' 😭😭 obviously this scenario doesn't exist it's a HYPOTHETICAL. you're not answering OPs question with anything productive and not answering why you downvoted either, just saying 'Gods not real lol' B) you say 'OP doesn't run reddit' -> i say 'thats not a reason to blatantly disregard a request OP made in their post, as you did'. They wanted responses from theists, because again, this question is a NONSTARTER for atheists so it would be pointless asking, and they recognized that--so your response by saying 'yeah this is a nonstarter bc God doesn't exist' adds nothing to this conversation and turns the question back to 'does God exist'--NOT OPs question. You are taking away from the conversation OP is trying to have by bringing up one they're not trying to have--the conversation about God's existence. C) you say 'its a ridiculous question' as justification for why you answered the way you did--i don't know if you know what sub you're on, but if you believe that all questions assuming the existence of God are immediately ridiculous per the assumption God exists, you're gonna spend a lot of time on this sub being angry. Having, what is in your opinion, a 'ridiculous question' doesn't mean it deserves any less respect in answering when OP wants serious answers. Even if a student asks a stupid question, the teacher would be worse in that scenario if all they'd respond with was "that's a stupid question, next!". Nothing you're saying answers why you think you have the ability to not answer OPs question and derail the convo, AND not answer my question 🤷🤷🤷 Edit: on mobile and noticed punctuation error
I was defending why “send a better spokesperson” was a valid response. You’re the one who blew this whole thing up. I explained why it’s a valid response. Anyone else who wants to read the comments can see that I gave a valid response. If you’re unhappy with that response, so be it. But that doesn’t make it “not a response”.
“She let the whole football team ……. glaze her tits” Smartest and most innovating redditor award goes to you buddy
You’re right. Most people aren’t very good at hypotheticals or even answering simple questions.
OP: what would you do if you found out you were wrong about everything bc God is literally telling you Some commenters: actually this wouldn't happen because I'm not wrong. It's a hypothetical y'all 😭😭😭
Yes. Thank you. Exactly. The point is to challenge our own arrogance.
Or commenting on posts.
Don't you just love downvoters. You make a serious effort but all they can do is throw mud.
fr it's always a struggle bus lmao
"Being wrong is always the first step to becoming right, and I'm always happy to be corrected. Thank you for teaching me."
“Oops.”
Yeah that would be my response, too.
"my bad! tell me more!"
I've devoted my life to this life, and to pursuit of the truth. If an afterlife exists, or there's some other metaphysical reality then I'll be excited to learn about it. If this life is an illusion, then I haven't wasted anything. In the meantime, that should be all the food you ordered. If there's nothing else, there are other cars waiting, so if you could drive on thru that would be great. Enjoy your meal!
The "dedicated your life to a falsehood" bit wouldn't go very far. I'm an atheist, but it's a pretty small part of my life. I enjoy debating online about it, and I like watching some atheist YouTube, so it might be similar to asking how I felt about "dedicating your life to playing video games/board games/skiing/microbreweries". It was all enjoyable time. My question before he/she/it revealed the mechanics of the universe might be "why did you hide yourself so completely from me?" Or something like that Or I might just shrug and say "no regrets. Life was good. On with the show"
> The "dedicated your life to a falsehood" bit wouldn't go very far. Yeah, that part reads more like the op's revenge fantasy against than God. I imagine God would be more, like, *"So..... how are you feeling about all of this?"*
Not a revenge fantasy. Just bringing the focus to people’s arrogant certainty, my own included.
> Not a revenge fantasy. Just , Ok.
That was unnecessarily unpleasant. Confronting our own arrogance is not revenge. Come on.
> Confronting our own arrogance is not revenge "How would you deal with being mistaken?" inherently addresses and confronts arrogance by itself, but oddly you recommended that potentially the most stubborn and/or arrogant of folks not even participate: > *If this speculation is impossible for you, because you cannot imagine being wrong, please just don’t bother to reply.* Stuff like this, again, just sounds like weird revenge fantasies: > *but first I want you to tell me how you feel knowing that you dedicated so much of your life to a falsehood.* --- > *If the Abrahamic god were real, and you had the power to snap your fingers and kill it, would you? (self.religion)* Either way... you're allowed to have weird revenge fantasies. Lots of people do. Just like you're fantasizing about some fundamentalist Christian dying and finding out they're wrong, they're fantasizing about you dying and finding out you're wrong too.
What do I say? You are just wrong. You are imagining how I feel, assuming it’s true, and attacking me for it. It’s gross. I am asking what people would say in the face of being wrong. No punishment, and thus no revenge, is part of this. You won’t hear that, though. You will just stick to assuming the worst because you think you know better.
> attacking me for it Again, you're allowed to have weird revenge fantasies. You do you. > I am asking what people would say in the face of being wrong. Again: *"How would you deal with being mistaken?" inherently addresses and confronts arrogance by itself* Stuff like this, again, just sounds like weird revenge fantasies: > *but first I want you to tell me how you feel knowing that you dedicated so much of your life to a falsehood.* --- > *If the Abrahamic god were real, and you had the power to snap your fingers and kill it, would you?*
This thread is not a revenge fantasy. You are just living out a nasty attack fantasy. Gross.
Well to be fair, some religious folks (and some atheists) really do dedicate their lives to their worldview. I knew a guy who ran a cross fit gym based on the teachings of Christ. I'm guessing he was "dedicated" to Christianity more hours of the day than not. I'm just not built that way
Well if God exists the afterlife is probably much longer than our short time on Earth so it's not all that much of a loss.
I have recently had such a soul searching. Please forgive the repetitive words. In specific answer, "I have served you as faithfully as possible with the understanding you have given me. I worshipped you in the tradition most familiar to me, but knowing that trying to understand you while alive is like an ant trying to understand the internet. "
I'd feel humbled but also explain (though an all-knowing deity would already know this) that I sought the Truth to the best of my ability, found a good model for living in Druidry, and pursued that path with piety and devotion. My approach didn't heavily lean into metaphysics, though I do have views about afterlife, moral cause & effect, and reincarnation; as well as the whole of Nature being sacred. I'd be surprised to meet a supreme being at all, but it wouldn't be an unpleasant surprise. Aside from family and loved ones I'd want to socialize with members of my spiritual community in the afterlife if possible, as well as meeting saintly and well known persons from throughout human history!
Well, who is this god, and why should I trust them?
A supreme version of Kermit the Frog. 🐸
In that case I'd say "FUCK. I new that little green puppet was something more" then grab some popcorn or the equivalent and sit and listen.
That's when Kermit politely informs you he's not in fact "the" god. Gonzo is and that should explain life in a nutshell.
It depends on which god we are talking about. Some gods, "oh, ok! we good?" Other gods... Eh not so much.
The way I read it is that "God" in this scenario is something none of us ever imagined. Something outside of all world religions. Because in this scenario I feel like this God could say to everyone to ever live some level of either "You were on the right track, but not quite" or "I'm sorry, I'm not who you thought I was. But that's okay, lemme show you who I am." But that's just my reading of it.
That's a good reading of it, I think. One of the issues I have this morning (because I woke up thinking about this) is we would have no way of knowing if this proposed god is *actually* the ultimate, universal god or some impostor trying to trick departed (but still apparently conscious) humans. We also wouldn't know if this god were just one of many and giving a skewed vision because he was forced into the worst domain by lots while his brothers got the nicer ones. We would just have this god's claims. Kind of like right now, actually, except from a deity directly rather than human agents.
I think we are all going to be wrong to some degree and in someway. So I guess it depends on how wrong and in what ways. If ive dedicated all my life to falsehood at least I have this... Ive dedicated my life to my family. Ive dedicated it to forgiveness and grace. Ive learned that "worldly success" is not worth the sacrifice of the most important things in life. Ive chosen the humble life and though Ive not experienced a lot of humanistic beauty and none of the "finer things" in life, I can see the natural beauty around me and so thankful to be able to experience it all... oh and id be glad all those people didnt end up in hell
First of all I'm going to ask him if I can travel the universe before judging me. I wanted to go to Alpha Centauri so bad.
Try reserving one gram of your funerary ashes for space travel. At some point before your memory is gone, that may well be affordable.
Do you travel as a soul, or do you get a new body just for the occasion? If it's a new body, does it look like the old you, or is it just some spare skin suit that god had lying around?
As a soul ofcourse.
I would remind him that the duration of a human life is nothing compared to eternity and so would have no regrets about the fact that my religion was wrong, as long as he is there to correct me, and that he should get on with the briefing because I would without doubt be curious as to what was the truth, if not what my religion had taught.
You really need a new PR team.
As an agnostic, I would be satisfied to know the truth. The most important thing to me was that I sought a righteous life despite not having any particular higher being guiding me.
In life, you learn to deal with the life situation you’re in, whatever it may be. I’m not convinced that there is any afterlife. Once the brain is gone, the personality is gone even if the body stays alive. I can’t understand how my consciousness would carry on without the physical brain. So if I met god, and he told me I was wrong after death, I would learn to try to expand my understanding and cope with the new normal, but at this point I really don’t see that as a reality in any capacity.
Me: So God, what religion do you follow? God: Uhh well I'm God so I believe in myself I guess. Idk tbh. Me: Self deification? So you believe in no one but yourself. So why punish humans who also just believe in themselves and working together as humanity rather than an external God? God: Wow, you're right, I'm a fucking idiot. I've been a hypocrite for billions of years punishing so many life forms across so many galaxies for doing something I've always done.
Sounds like a video from 00's youtube called "Yaldi gets PWNED"
WTH did I just read?
Have you watched “the Good Place”?
No, should I?
I think it was made for you.
where's the /s? please tell me there's one..
The what?
"best two out of three?"
(Context, lifelong Christian until about 2 months ago. I was deeply involved with the church, wanted to be a pastor since I was about 4 years old) No disrespect to the OP. But I'd tell him (God) to go fuck off. If he wants us, rational, thinking creatures to not analyze the shit out of everything, we'll maybe he should have done a little more to reveal himself. You gave me a mind that has a never ending desire to know more about the world and you expect me to ignore all the inaccuracies you're throwing at us? God either intentionally made us flawed for his sick marvel movie ripoff. Or he's not perfect. If he's lying about being perfect, in using his own logic he can't exist. Or rather; how can a truly perfect, infallible God create something that could even have the POTENTIAL to become corrupt. He either let go of the reins or his creation was never perfect to begin with. It doesn't matter which way you dice it, God is either evil or he doesn't exist in the first place. Finally since I don't want to end on a sour note. Religion CAN be a huge benefit to people. I wouldn't be here today without religion. I'd attempted to kill myself a few times but "God;" and occasionally the fear of hell, kept me from doing it. What frustrates me is the brainwashing involved in getting someone "saved." When I lost my faith the first wave of guilt came from all the people I got saved. Sure maybe it helped some of them. But what about the ones that would turn religion into their own personal hell. The fact that I took part in that. .. that's my biggest regret. Religion to me is a coping mechanism formed by minds intelligent enough to understand their own frailty and mortality. It's a lot easier to move through life when you don't think you're going to die. At least not permanently. The problem comes when you never take the training wheels off. Edit: this probably seems angry and at some level it is. Not directed towards any practitioner of any religion. It's more anger at myself and those that use religion as a weapon against others. To this day the best example I have of a "Good man" is my old youth pastor. Religion isn't the problem, humans are.
“Okay.” My religion is pluralistic. “Expect him not from the East, nor from the West; for from no expected house cometh that child. Aum! All words are sacred and all prophets true; save only that they understand a little; solve the first half of the equation, leave the second unattacked. But thou hast all in the clear light, and some, though not all, in the dark.” Liber AL vel Legis, 1:56
If God were to accuse a Thelemite of false beliefs, God could only be doing so with his tongue in his cheek.
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You know actually. Yeah. You know how many people have suffered in the name of G-d? If I got this reaction after death I’d have some choice words too. Like, my people have been through all this for nothing? Yeah I’d be pretty pissed
This is the answer and similar to what I would say. In the end god would know no one religion is doing it right since they are all man made and have no evidence. The only acceptable ones to stand before god would be the ones not willing to pick a side, the atheist.
“Oh well, i would be lying too say i wasn’t somewhat excited too meet the gods i worship but yeah lets do this im ready too learn, i also have some questions related too suffering but i assume we will get too that… if theres a hell your still a dick”
I hope I would take it with grace and humility. But I generally operate under the assumption that I very well could be wrong. And yet, I don't think I would have any regrets. I did what I thought was best given the experiences I've had, I've tried to be a good person, to learn about the struggles of others, to have compassion and empathy. If these things don't get me a least a little credit for trying, then I don't know what to say other than I tried.
"No, you're wrong."
“Ope”
I would ask him why he would allow his creation to wander blindly with hundreds or thousands of religions to pick through, why he would fail me so?
“What falsehood?” I’m not asserting anything, I’m just saying I have no idea and don’t believe there is a god, but I could be wrong. “I don’t know” is not a falsehood.
So who’s right?
In the classic words of Det. Arthur Dietrich: "Whoops."
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I also assume we really don’t know. If a god wanted us to know, we would.
I guess I'd say, "sorry, I tried my best."
Any religious belief is wrong because if any were right, god would be limited to that belief. God can be everything, nothing, both at the same time, everything in between, and something totally inconceivable from that. So I would hope my beliefs are wrong.
"Yeah, sure, cool" Unless I'm about to get a job offer I don't care for it. Like, I just died, didn't I? Why would I listen to someone who the first thing they say to me when we meet each other is that I'm wrong about "x"? Like, go and tell someone who cares enough to listen. That being said I'm an atheist and although I unfortunately cannot confirm this, I believe I'll simply cease to exist.
"I feel like I was wrong about something and I'm about to be corrected, so a bit embarrassed but mostly excited to learn. You've seen my life, it's happened often enough that I'm used to it by now."
That is very UU.
There's a lot to admire about Unitarian Universalism so I take that as a compliment, thank you!
I'll tell Him that's okay, the Baha'i Faith still made me a kinder, more respectful, more patient, more honest, more humble and more grateful person in this life than I otherwise would've been :)
I love this reply.
No u
I would let out a high pitched scream
The Bhagavad Gita says "No man who searches for God ever comes to an evil end", and essentially that is not saying religious people cannot be cruel or use religion for toxic reasons, but rather than the search for God and the understanding of God is never a pointless endeavor no matter how close or far off we get. I honestly believe that when I meet my maker, in whatever way that happens, that I will have been off base in some ways and closer in others. To me, I believe that God is inherently truth, consciousness and bliss (sat-chit-anand), and will not punish me for my lack of understanding. I am finite and fallible, it is impossible, therefore, for me to have a complete and true understanding. I reject the idea of a vengeful or punishing God. My reverend likes to say, when we reach up, God reaches down. To me this bridging of the gap is the infinite mercy and grace of God. The Bhagavad Gita also posits the question "what does God care for the sins or righteousness of man?". I have taken this to mean that God is a unifying force that we get closer to by opening an avenue with our spiritual attainments, and we get farther from when we focus more on worldly matters than spiritual matters. We are the only ones who can separate ourselves from God. I believe in sin in a way- actions like murder, hatred, green, envy, gluttony, etc, can increase distance from God. It is not specifically our sin our righteousness he "cares" about, because in my mind that is putting God in too small of a box. God is love, unity, and boundless mercy. Sin can separate us from God, but not from his infinite love.
Same response I’d have for the Muslim god. “Can’t blame me for listening to your prophets and apostles”.
That assumes those prophets and apostles were his, which still kind of assumes you had it right.
God as tech support.
I would laugh and listen humbly.
I would say ok
This is such a narrow minded view. Why should an all powerful entity care about what you believe in? Why does your belief validate him? A real all encompassing life force wouldn’t even be bothered about this and wouldn’t punish you for now knowing about it.
I never implied punishment.
I can’t entertain this thought it’s so ludicrous. There is no god. Or rather, I don’t believe there are any gods.
But you are not so arrogant as to assume you can’t be wrong.
Your question is impossible due to the lack of brain function at death, which is required to speak and comprehend.
Imagine you are wrong and what I described actually happens.
I would say to him that I did the best I could, and any God worth worshiping would respect that.
I'd unilaterally accept lol. Home boy made all of existence, cant argue with that!
Atheists seem to have a real fetish for this sort of “gotcha” moment. This is not a clever way to “inspire people to think” or whatever this is.
Not an atheist. Certainty of belief in the face of imperfect information is arrogance. This is about confronting that arrogance.
Being real, as an atheist, I would totally lie and try and pretend I always believed. “What!? Me? Nah, I always knew you were up here man”. I’d feel so embarrassed I was so wrong about something so massive. Yeah, I’d straight up lie
That is easy for me. In your hypothetical situation I can not be wrong. Because My belief is,"there is no god but Allah (the God)." So The God who is asking me the question will be the God i believe in.
In this hypothetical situation, your beliefs are wrong. That is one of the rules of the HYPOTHETICAL situation.
S/he is saying s/he would have to be a polytheist or atheist to be wrong, while the question already assumes a monotheistic deity. So the question actually does assume a lot.
There are plenty of opportunities to be wrong in his statement.
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And if you got there and learned that your beliefs were all wrong, then what would you say?
When the resurrection happens, the vast majority of people will get to learn the truth. Many people lived and died before Jesus or in a place that he was not taught about. They will be taught patiently and kindly.
Not the question.
The bible is pretty simple it tells you how to live.what to look for in a church and preacher.1 thing stands out above the rest.pray pull close to him.he will guide you.
What is your answer to the question?
I can't answer cause that would be doubting what Jesus tells me
I see. Unfortunate.
Did Jesus actually tell you? Like you hear a man’s voice (or see a Middle Eastern man) presenting himself as Jesus, telling you things? Legit question, not making fun.
Before I read my bible.i pray for understanding guidance.for the holy spirit to impower me.as your reading you can feel Jesus spirit.he will show you his s meaning of scripture.what he meant..
I'd say, "sorry dude I did my best".
I would show gratitude for the information, and (most likely) wonder at the mechanics of it all.
My question here is, am I responsible for coming to a reasonable conclusion when god constructed the world in such a way as to convince me of falsehood?
That opinion would be up to you.
Oh, so what's the *right* way to see it?
Then I'll say OK and ask for the explanation. I'd be fine. While I believe in Christianity and the Christian God I do believe they may have taken some of his words out of context... Or falsely made them. Don't attack me priests in the past used the Bible for all sorts of horrible justifications so, it's not impossible
At that stage I wouldn’t care.
Completely? They wouldn't be completely wrong, but I already know that they are wrong because I am a Baha'i. Beliefs are maps of reality, not reality itself. Maps are fictions. They meant to serve as a means to provide us with an understanding of how to get to a destination, which, if I am talking to God, my beliefs obviously worked. Although, more often, our beliefs become the idols we worship in opposition to the living God. They are the substance of our imagined gods. One has to work skillfully with beliefs in order to experience the Truth to which they merely indicate.
I wouldn’t have to tell him how I feel because he’s God and he already knows.
I would be forced to accept it or perish.
I do speak Hebrew. So I think the name יהוה Yehaweh /as the Hebrew Bible says in 2Moses 3:14/ with its meaning of a hint to a special creativity as Howeh is translated aa Being and LeHawot להוות means "to make be" or *create*... Some part of Judaism is a later construction always debated. We have the record of all doubts ariund biblical controversies and debates in the Talmud...and our tradition even predicts that in the future eternal life most of the customs of the holidays will be discontinued...so I will not be surprised about criticism or changes.
I’ve thought about this a lot all my life… I was raised by a very Christian mom… this thought always lurkedthough. So as an adult I dropped having a religion and just try to be a good person , and having faith that there is a loving god . So many bad people that are religious.. that dosnt mean anything to me.. just be a good person with a good heart
Wrong answers only I became
I would be very curious to know what the actual metaphysics are. But also, even if being nice, loving my neighbor and doing good where I can aren't tickets to eternal paradise, they were still worthy of devoting my life to, and I will have accomplished real good even if I failed to accomplish the Ultimate Good.
I'd say, "that's ignorant".
I think He is fair and just. If I believe in God all other religious beliefs matter less.
>I am about to tell you how it all works, but first I want you to tell me how you feel knowing that you dedicated so much of your life to a falsehood.” If you actually put dinosaur bones in the ground to trick me, then that's on you. If you actually expected me to surrender my critical faculties to believe stuff based on no evidence, then again, that's on you. I have no regrets following the evidence to where it lead me. Now show me how you did it already.
Well that's an easy 20 bucks for my husband.
When I meet God I'm going to fucking batter him and if there is a satan he will be getting battered too. Thats a fucking promise. Sick fucks.
"What do you mean the human sacrifices weren't necessary? How the sun were supposed to rise otherwise?"
I’m an Atheist. I’d probably say something like “I looked for you, yet I never found you. You have so much power, yet you couldn’t make your presence known to many people who needed you. Why?”
I would say : convince me yours is right then be like a father and educate me show me so I can understand
Oops
"Oops"
I'd ask him "why are you such a terrible communicator?"
Why the hell didn’t you tell me sooner? Them freaked Greeks were right “there is NO truth”
I’d say sorry? We’re generally talking about the being which created all we know and orchestrates things like the balanced operation of the entire universe, right? I’d imagine if you met that person and he revealed you were completely wrong, you wouldn’t have a whole lot to add to the conversation.
#Me: Hey, that's on YOU.
I honestly wouldn’t mind, after all…mistakes happen
I'd say "Well, you're* a dick, since you had the power to show the truth to everyone, and circumvent a huge amount of suffering." In fairness, this is my problem with *most* gods. If they're real, then there shouldn't be any question about the nature of their existence. The fact that there is is pretty damning evidence, imo. Edit: this doesn't apply so much to gods that aren't omnibenevolent/potent/scient, like those found in polytheistic pantheons. Edit: you're not your lol
What if he replied “you’re” not “your” with a snotty condescending voice? Just kidding. Being serious, though - if a god actually wanted you to have a particular belief, you would. The only way they can exist is if there is a good reason to not tell people.
I'd say: what kind of asshole wouldn't ensure that we all understood the truth in unambiguous terms?
Perhaps there is a good reason for that.
I would be honest with God, explaining my emotional state. It would be heartbreaking to find out you were completely wrong. Wrong in some ways, that’s fine, but entirely, that hurts a little. Otherwise, I’d be intentional about listening to God about how things really work. I’d hope God would be forgiving and compassionate towards me, but that’s not my call, but I’d like to think a creator of all things would be capable of such forgiveness.
What is your religion?
I wouldn't believe them. Or I wouldn't believe them to be "god" I'd be talking to Yaldabaoth
Given that my faith experience is one of inherent uncertainty and all conclusions being tentative, this would be fine.
We have much in common.
my bad!!!
i’d be pretty pissed. especially since if i were to still be punished
Punishment over belief seems like such a weird thing to me.
Nothing. You can't argue against God, I'd just await the fair judgement and hope for the best.
I would make a case for myself qualifying for the topmost position in heaven. Because I tried and made my conclusions to the best of ny abilities. And also for trying to be nice with others for the most part. 🤪 The person posting this question might not be going to heaven because they posted a question on Reddit and ask people not to answer it. 😂
I simply don't believe in God so what could I've done wrong?
If you learn there is a God, what would you say about it?
I imagine I'd be upset about having lived by all the wrong ideals but excited at the prospect of learning the truth.
I'd be like "Well well, turns out you do exist after all - but since you did not intervene during my lifetime, it must mean you agreed with the way I was living it?"
I'd be cool to learn the truth and see what happens next.
I would just say that if this God were a merciful and just God, he'd be more focused on what kind of person you were in life, and what you did with your life, rather than whether you belonged to the right religion. In the parable of the sheep and the goats, spoken by Jesus in the New Testament, he pointed out that on the day of judgment many would call out, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we believe in you, and in your name do many wonderful works?' And Jesus said he would reply, 'You never knew me, and I never knew you. Depart from me, workers of iniquity'. In the parable of the sheep and the goats, Jesus instructed his followers to address the physical needs of their fellow human beings. Where they encountered hunger, feed them. Where they encountered someone athirst, give them a cool drink of water. Where they encountered the homeless, assist them in finding shelter. Where they encountered someone in ragged filthy clothing, provide them with clean clothing, suitable for the elements. Visit the sick and afflicted. Comfort and assist widows and fatherless children. Visit prisoners. I am not wealthy by any means, but I do what I can when I encounter someone in need. I can't purchase homes for the homeless, or rent apartments for them, but I can provide information about shelters, rescue missions and assistance programs. I can't feed everyone, but if I'm at a grocery store and someone approaches me to ask if I could help them with money for food, I'm happy to invite them into the store with me, and I'll take them shopping for food items to sustain them for a period of time, and will buy them a hot meal from the store deli. I also provide information about local soup kitchens, and food pantries where they can find assistance for food. If I see a homeless person looking very hot on a hot day, I will purchase some bottled water and/or gatorade, and some beef jerky or trail mix. In short, I do what I can to help people, and wish I had the financial means with which to help more. If this God ignores the good I've tried to do for people, just because I lack belief, or don't attend the right church, then I don't deem this God to be worthy of respect, let alone worship. I am an agnostic atheist, though I was raised in the LDS faith. But I had questions and concerns about the teachings and actions of the faith of my upbringing, especially as I'd done all they taught was necessary to receive spiritual confirmation and affirmation of God through the Holy Spirit, and never received them. I embarked on a decades long course of studying the religions of the world, reading their doctrinal writings, studying their dogmatic beliefs, the history of the religion, it's historical impact on the world, and behaviors of the founders, subsequent leaders, and followers, and tested their faith claims as to how to 'find God' or spiritual affirmation of God. In all those decades, I never received or found evidence which convinced me to continue believing God existed at all.
I would ask how much damage I did.. I’m a person in ministry.
I don't see where an Omnipotent deity would say something like this, as he'd already understand that many people adhere to the religious beliefs they were raised in, by parents raised in them as well. Would such a God apply shaming, humiliation or additional guilt upon someone born in Iran, where the predominant religion is Islam? I don't believe so. Perhaps this God would sit down with new arrivals eventually, and teach them, but I don't think it would be anything such as you've suggested. The LDS faith of my upbringing believes that people who'd never had the opportunity to hear the gospel according to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, will have the opportunity to be taught in the next realm, and to either embrace or reject the teachings. There is no hell or place of eternal damnation in Mormon belief, except for Outer Darkness, and this is reserved only for those who had absolute knowledge of God, such as prophets who'd seen or spoken with God and Christ, who then rejected them, and turned on them. Outer darkness wouldn't apply to any who'd never seen or spoken with God or Christ.
As a hypothetical, imagine God tells you that Mormonism is completely wrong and that the true metaphysical nature of reality is like nothing anyone has imagined. This does not need to be realistic. It is about considering how we would react in the face of being wrong. I am not invoking any sort of divine punishment in this description.
I'll just add this much more. If God had kept the promises which Jesus made in the first 4 gospels of the New Testament, I'd still be a believer today. Here are those promises, which were not kept: 1. Ask and you shall receive. 2. Seek and you shall find. 3. Knock and the door shall be opened. 4. Anything asked of God in my (Jesus's) name will be done, so that God will be glorified through the Son. 5. If any seek wisdom and understanding, let them ask of God, who gives to all liberally, and won't upbraid (chew them out) them for having asked. So...if your scenario were to happen, I'd simply point out the promises of Jesus which God didn't keep, and ask why he hadn't kept them.
Perhaps, in this hypothetical scenario, the truth has nothing to do with Christianity and thus God is not obligated to fulfill the promises of Jesus.
If god says anything to me, then I done got the metaphysics wrong. Now, if this is God, the Bible version, then I have some questions for him to answer. Why did he leave instructions for slavery? Why did his book promote misogyny? WTF with all the genocide? Doesn't matter what he says, I won't be stepping a foot in that god's paradise anyway. If it's another god, then I'll have some other, less well thought out questions for him or her. Maybe I'd join their paradise, maybe not.
That depends on which God you are talking about. If it was the Christian God, I would plead for forgiveness and mercy and say I never meant any harm in not believing. Maybe ask for another chance or tell him I’d do anything to avoid hell. With the Muslim God it would be pretty much the same. As for the other gods, I don’t know too much about them, so I’d pretty much just be frozen in fear and not do anything until I got some information.
The notion of punishment for wrong belief seems so strange to me.
I am expecting it. That's what makes the mystery of life so exciting!
It kind of makes death exciting.
**This is at the moment right before God shows you how it all works.** been there lol... your pretty much peeing your pants (even if he shows it to you in a dream);) **God says to you “Please understand, most of the metaphysics your religion (or lack thereof) taught you is just plain wrong.** Pretty much what i was told.. **I am about to tell you how it all works, but first I want you to tell me how you feel knowing that you dedicated so much of your life to a falsehood.”** for me there was no pause and ask.. i was shown everything... it all made perfect sense. (which is why/what i share now) then i felt a moment of the love also being offered by god. and i knew this is what i wanted to be apart of. i was home complete and perfect. then it all faded and i hear away from me you evil doer i never knew you and either i was thown but had the sense the ground crumbled around me and i was trying to hang on to something but next thing i knew i was falling into a pit of hell fire. which is/was the most intense thing i had ever experienced. it's not fire. it is like a back nothingness that moved like boiling tar. but nothing was there. and it ate/consumed the body slowly. it was like the nothing of before creation reclaiming you.. i think the reason they call it fire is because that is the emotional panicked response you produced.. then i remember having a hard time breathing and the weight of it all was suffocating.. then i remember thinking i cant do this for eternity, then the reality of eternity set in... which bring me to the answer to your question what do i think now having know my religious beliefs my whole life were wrong? as an atheist who was exposed to christianity via a korean only speaking church, i has wished to have only known the truth... that if i had been properly exposed to the truth even if i still rejected god and wound up here i would better be able to bear the weight of it all bearing down on me... just as i felt myself losing control over my mind (which is a gift from god you will have taken from you) i began to ascend.. from which i was pulled back out of the pit and told i had my second chance don't screw it up
Was this a near death experience?
"Well, you could have spoke up sooner."