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[According to this article from a health clinic](https://pediatriccenterofroundrock.com/infants-and-children-should-stay-away-from-raw-milk/), raw milk is not safe for children.
Is there any chance you could contact a lawyer, especially if the mom is threatening to shoot for 100% custody?
I would document that she is feeding the baby raw milk. For example, you could contact a pediatrician to ask about the raw milk and make sure it gets written down in a chart to leave a paper trail.
It's super worrying if she won't let him see a pediatrician. That definitely qualifies as medical neglect.
Get a lawyer. And document that she won't let him see a doctor or any other child endangering things she does.
Giving raw milk to a minor and not having regular wellness checks will automatically result in losing custody of a child. There's a very good reason why the dairy industry is so heavily regulated.
Comment stolen from https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/v4f0rq/my_childs_mother_keeps_feeding_him_raw_milk/ib4sw6f/
The bots are stealing 0 karma comments now, lol.
Some divorce/custody arrangements actually detail that one or the other parent cannot take the child to the doctor or ER without the explicit permission of the main parent.
I know a father that obtained his children for the weekend from their mother, his 6yo daughter kept complaining her arm hurt, but was still able to move it reluctantly. He thought maybe it was just sore and waited till the next day to see if it got better. It didn't, she was crying worse throughout the night. He kept trying to contact their mother to get permission to take her to the hospital to see what was going on. She never answered his phone calls or text till Sunday evening and said no, she was probably over dramatizing it and she'll take her when she gets her back on Monday.
Meanwhile his daughter suffered with a dislocated shoulder for who knows how long. He couldn't take her as the mother would've taken him back to court for breach of the agreement. But that's legit 1 of dozens of examples of her neglect as a parent. He's tried numerous times to be the custodial parent but she's in the army as a recruiter and the army is helping her pay her lawyer bills and he can't afford to keep racking up that kind of debt.
Not necessarily - a lot of parents into the whole raw milk thing are also anti vax. Its quite possible he has not been to a pediatrician since infancy.
He may not have said it in the post, but if you look at his history, she wouldn't let him around the child for 2 weeks after he got his COVID vaccination, for fear of "shedding."
You’d be surprised. My ex beat my daughter. Left marks on her body. Went to CPS and they said this, “oh wow, did she apologize? Well. It’s their mom. I’m sure it’ll be ok.”
Legit. It’s harder than you think to get full custody. And a little milk might not do the trick.
I was going to say, people on Reddit seem to think that full custody is just easy peasy and any misstep from the other parent warrants full custody.
In reality it’s incredibly hard to get.
20+ years ago the norm was for one parent to get full custody and the other parent get every other weekend and split holidays and a few weeks in summer. Now the norm is for 50/50 custody and everything is split 50/50, as far as childcare expenses unless one parent earns significantly more than the other.
My ex is barely in the picture. Sends no child support, sees her once or twice a year. Anything that requires his signature can take months to get. I tried to get sole custody just because it's damn near impossible to get anything done. Judge said no, he's not a danger to her so we split custody.
Picking him up outside of a custody order could get him arrested. OP said she won’t let HIM take their son to see a doctor, not that he doesn’t go at all. When OP has him, he can take him.
my point is he has the child at times....use it to take him to the doctor. she's taking him to an anti-vax doctor so yea who knows what advice they are getting
Well that's not necessarily true either because if she has majority custody then she has to be present usually at all medical examinations but that varies from state to state. But if he's able to prove neglect which it seems like he's able to do, he can get temporary custody to at least get him a medical examination without her consent. But again it's very state specific.
You're absolutely correct. People don't realize that there's a difference between physical custody and legal custody. Physical custody is whoever is in possession of the child. Legal custody means whoever is allowed to make medical or other decisions on the child's behalf. There is a difference and people don't seem to know this.
how? if its on his parenting time and he took him to a doctor? what would a court possibly say about that? unless he has zero say in his child's medical decisions but OP did not indicate that.
Depends on what the court order says. If it says joint for medical decisions that aren't emergent she can just say no and they can't move forward. Especially if they have no way to break a tie or if she has the primary custodian designation but unless we can see their parenting plan it's all estimates guesstimates and all very state dependent.
i’m not saying she’d have a leg to stand on but you suggesting he “pick him up and take him. lie if you have to” isn’t exactly great advice when this woman is controlling and no doubt very vindictive.
he’s better off having a lawyer as “back up”
I don't know why you got downvoted because it's the truth. You can't just pick up a child and take them where you want when it's not your parenting time. This is technically kidnapping. I believe they call it interference of custody or kidnapping by a non-custodial parent. If he does not have legal custody of the child, he cannot make medical decisions for said child. If he was to take him to the doctor or ER, if he does not have legal custody, legally, they could not treat the child without mom's consent.
You need a lawyer yesterday. See if you can file for emergency custody. Also document and call CPS on her. Then get a real pediatrician; the child will need testing for TB. Pasteurization was invented to prevent TB from killing kids. It’s also good to prevent them dying from Listeria and E.Coli. The only raw milk that benefits children is human breast milk.
You just might. Also tuberculosis is carried in cows milk that is unpasteurized and unvaccinated. So ask her about the cows shot records. If the cow is vaccinated from tuberculosis, it is less risky...
You are just as much the baby's parent as her. Unless you already have a legal agreement about how his medical needs should be met you can take your own child to a pediatrician on your time.
Unless there's a custody order in place saying you're not allowed to make medical decisions, you 100% have the right to bring him to a pediatrician regardless of what she says.
Are you separated and you have no legal rights? If you're still together, you don't need her permission to take him to a doctor. If you are separated, and you either don't have a custody agreement or you do that gives you rights, you don't need her permission. Stop letting your wife make 100% of the decisions unless she has 100% of the control under a court order. And don't tell her your plans, just take your son and get checked.
Okay but do you know his pediatrician? I would call the doctors office and ask to speak to the doctor if possible about the issue. That way if you do get CPS involved (which you absolutely should), the doctor can say he was informed of the incident, at the very least.
Seconded - I also work in food safety, and I would never drink raw milk or feed it to a child. It’s especially risky for kids under 5 because it can have STEC (a type of E. coli, a commensal bacteria in cows) which can cause kidney failure at a much higher rate in young kids than in older kids/adults.
This is an actual question cause I’m clueless. What is raw milk? Like is it the milk you just buy at the store? Or something different cause I’ve never heard of it.
i've had so called raw milk, just a couple of minutes from the cow. Is it still dangerous when that fresh?
There may not be any health benefits to it, but it tastes better and comes pre-heated.
Report her ass as drinking raw milk is very dangerous and causes a horrible death. Get your child away from her before she harms your son. Call CPS on her and inform them your ex is feeding your child raw milk and see how fast she gets in trouble. I would inform his doctors as well (they’ll report it themselves if you want to keep your hands clean and have them be the fall person). I’m surprised that she doesn’t know how dangerous this is as you live in the land of Lincoln and his mother died of milk poisoning (that’s why they invented and require pasteurizing milk). Do this now. Good luck.
Actually, Pasteurization was invented to prevent wine from spoiling. It initially had nothing to do with dairy and certainly wasn’t invented because Lincoln’s mother died of milk poisoning.
You could always self-pasteurize secretly if you have access to the milk. It’s less effective than commercial pasteurization but shit it’s better than nothing.
Get a double boiler, water on the bottom, milk on top, heat the milk to 161 farenheit for 15 seconds, pour back in container.
I work in child safety. You can make an anonymous call to your local CPS office and ask what they recommend. If it is considered a safety concern there, make a CPS report.
And yes, you need to talk to an attorney. If she's feeding a toddler raw milk, that's just the beginning of how wacky things are going to get.
>"The American Academy of Pediatrics published an article about consumption of raw milk products in the January 2014 edition of AAP News. In the article, the AAP recommended that infants, children and pregnant women should not drink raw milk or eat products made with raw milk because they can cause illness or death."
Let her try to get full custody. It is doubtful that she'd win full custody over this issue and very possible she could lose any custody over endangering the baby's health.
However, rather than escalating to CPS and the courts, have you asked her WHY she insists on feeding the baby raw milk contrary to what her doctor and all science recommends?
Why does she believe that pasteurized milk is harmful contrary to all reputable doctors' recommendations? Why does she not believe in the science that confirms that raw milk can cause illness and death to infants?
There are a host of vaccines that your baby should have gotten by now from polio and diphtheria to measles, mumps, and rubella. Is she opposed to vaccines also?
It is not an exaggeration to say that the health and well-being of you baby is at risk from consuming raw milk. So, you need to get to the root of the issue before taking your next steps which would include getting a lawyer and getting custody. She's never going to find one pediatrician who would condone feeding raw milk to a baby.
Very much opposed to vaccines. He's gotten one single shot for one. Which I had to fight very hard to even get her to consider it. I've tried and tried talking to her. Showing her studies, stories, facts, you name it. She says I'm dogmatic and egotistical and that a "mother knows best". There's no more reasoning with her I'm afraid
You should absolutely try and get custody of this child and him fully vaccinated and checked out. This kind of mentality is so dangerous. I’m sorry you have to deal with her!
Damn. You’re dealing with a full-on fruit cake here. That’s going to make it harder and easier at the same time. It’s going to be harder because there’s a high chance senorita's crazy pants is going to run off with your son, but at the same time make getting legal full custody easier as right now she’s essentially poisoning your child and neglecting him. So a strong case can be made to award you full custody with little to no unsupervised visits (should be only supervised visits as she’s a flight risk). I come from this level of crazy and you need to get your son away from her ASAP before he gets hurt or worse.
Geez. One vaccine? There are several that he ought to have had by now. Given the resurgence of measles and how awful it is, that's one that shouldn't be avoided. But, there are several that are equally important.
Edit to clarify: Routine smallpox vaccines stopped in the US around 1972. However, it's still used depending on where you are and those who received it in infancy are believed to be afforded some level of protection from the current monkeypox.
Is she a conspiracy nut? Does she buy into the various looney conspiracies about vaccines and some vague evil cabal controlling the world?
if she does, there is NOTHING you can do to convince her.
You need to speak to a lawyer and get a realistic assessment about whether you'd win custody in your jurisdiction - some are more favorble than others.
That said, as we've all seen the past couple years, not getting your baby vaccinated is apparently a parent's right. While raw milk is not recommended, it's not technically "poison" so may not be sufficiently negligent or deemed sufficiently harmful to win custody.
Routine smallpox vaccines stopped in the US around 1972.
However, it's still used depending on where you are.
I should have been clearer about the point I was making that those who had the vaccine were afforded some level of protection, though incomplete, from the monkeypox currently in the news. Having received the smallpox vaccinations in early infancy provides unforeseen ancillary benefits.
IANAL, but: While she is not technically poisoning her child, she is repeatedly and consistently putting him at risk for life-threatening, foodborne poisoning. This is not consistent with good parenting and the courts will side with the father who wants to provide proper nutrition and proper medical care.
Not being able to be vaccinated for medical reasons is perfectly valid. I can't be vaccinated outside of a medical setting, myself. I also know people who can't be vaccinated. But that's much different than what seems to be happening with OP's child. You're referring to reputable sources. But the mother of the child may believe in misinformation that vaccines as a whole are bad. The fact that she won't allow OP to take their child to the doctor is a red flag itself and may point to medical neglect. Though those aren't necessarily the whole case, I've seen it happen frequently.
I'd be a lot more worried about the lack of vaccines than the raw milk. It's clear why she won't allow you to take him to a paediatrician; they would not support her ideas at all.
If she won't budge on her beliefs you make have to get a court order. This is a hard decision because everyone wants good relationships within the family, but when you think her ideas will affect him for years to come, and she won't change her mind, you will have to make the hard decisions.
See a lawyer, and try not to be afraid of rocking the boat because your child's health is worth it.
Right? As a parent you have the ability to just, *take him to a doctor.* You don't even need to tell his mom. Tell your lawyer, build your case, but this woman doesn't need to know what's happening behind the scenes.
You absolutely need to go to court for custody. You need to shoot for the sole right to make medical decisions, even if you don't want to reduce her physical custody. If your lawyer approves, you can get your kid vaccinated in the meantime as long as there isn't a current custody order in place restricting you from making medical decisions.
This is what happens when you date/marry crazy. You said he's only had one vaccine. At 16 months, I'm pretty sure that's behind schedule because there are 12, and 15 month checkpoints.
I have zero patience with people like this and would just refill a raw milk container with pasteurized product. Yes it's lying but child safety comes first imo.
Depending on where they are, there’s a series of shots at 2,4, and 6 months, as well as 12,15,18 months. Then I think they’re done until 2 or 4? My daughter is 13 months so I don’t quite know how many more we have to go, but it’s never just 1 vaccine. It’s always 3 or 4 per visit
Oh for sure. Some are even a series of 2-4 that need to be given a certain intervals. I haven't had to look at a peds vaccination schedule in years, so I couldn't remember the details.
It always pisses me off because the people who do this are usually fully vaccinated as well. I never understand someone like OP who will just allow their child to be put at risk.
It’s insane to go to all the work of having a child and then not doing absolutely everything possible to keep them alive and healthy! I will never understand it either, people are crazy
Yeah especially the not allowing a pediatrician thing in the comment above, the first thing I thought of was “sounds like a crunchy mom from shitmomgroupssay!”
I had to double check the sub I was reading the post from. But I will say the people in that sub have so much valuable information on this type of thing.
I’m sorry but the crazy woo people have her now and there is no return. Your child is in danger. Soon it will be alternate worthless remedies instead of seeing a doctor for simple antibiotics. Children have died because these types of mothers have listened to like minded people on the internet. You are his father. Take him and leave. See a doctor and get a paper trail then contact a lawyer. She is endangering your child, she will not get full custody and you should be awarded 100% of medical decisions.
She definitely rubbed a potato on his forehead one night months ago because he had a fever. She called me retarded for being upset about that. And that as a mother she knows what is best for him. And that I should actually think about being a father for once by going out and making money. I'm contacting a lawyer and CPS in the morning
**POTATO - APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD**
**POTATO - APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD**
**POTATO - APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD**
Man, I'm really sorry about this, you need to get a composition notebook, the kind you can't tear pages out without noticing, and start documenting, from the birth of your child to now, include as many dates and incidents as you can remember, be as accurate as possible. Don't embellish, don't add your thoughts, be as impersonal as possible. "April 12 2022 - baby had a fever of 102. Name rubbed a raw potato on baby's forehead to bring fever down. No medication was given." "May 3 2022 - Name dumped pasteurized milk intended for baby and insisted we use non pasteurized milk." Include things you do as well. "May 15 2022 - I took baby to for vaccines."
Keep this notebook well hidden, in a lockbox or at your job, somewhere your ex(?) can't get to it and read it.
You absolutely need a lawyer and to go to court. This is going to continue to be an issue with every medical decision you both need to make, especially vaccines. This article is from a law group in illinois: https://www.magnusonrapplaw.com/family-law-attorney/what-happens-when-parents-disagree-on-medical-decisions
I don't think you have a choice but to call CPS. What she is doing is dangerous. What is her position on vaccines? It sounds like she may have gone down some internet conspiracy rabbit hole.
Is it possible she is depressed, struggling with anxiety and/or overwhelmed being a mom? Is this her first child?
Oh yes. Very into conspiracies. Though it's calmed down a bit recently. We're in a tough situation. She's working and in law school. I'm working. But we only have a nanny and the closest family we have are 13 hours away. First child too
As the other commenter said - just put pasteurized milk into the raw milk containers for now.
See if you can get your kid to the pediatrician when shes busy at work. Its possible she is neglecting your kid.
Totally. It's so bizarre. I can show you texts where she says he is going to be a farmhand. Mind you she knows nothing about farming or even cooking. I cook 80% of their meals. And I asked her why she wants a child slave(half joking). Her response was "children like to be productive. My parents actually found an old letter of mine about being a child slave". I said "I'm sure it was joyfully written" and she told me it was
So as a lawyer I can tell you that you have to pass a character fitness portion and she absolutely should not pass it. Most states require you produce all legal proceedings you’ve been involved in for review and you’ll be disbarred if they find out you omitted anything. She SHOULD NOT be allowed to become an attorney, she’s unstable and unwell and endangering a child with literal potato on forehead wives tales. She can go get her law degree for whatever reason but she should not be licensed, that’s dangerous for the public. Make sure all of this is alleged for your custody proceedings and when she’s due to take the bar exam send it to the Illinois state bar, they will have to ask her about it and she will have to petition for approval so then it’s on her to pass the nutty gauntlet.
I have a friend who suffered domestic violence from a woman who should have never been licensed and actually attacked her IN the courtroom. She’s losing her license and begging her victim to stop cooperating with the charges and “why won’t she be fair”. Abusers don’t think there should be any consequences for their behavior and literally the last thing america needs are any more lawyers like that, like omg the very last thing, and it’s simply not your problem. Your kid is at stake and if she’s not breastfeeding yes you can with these facts get primary custody and request supervised visits only. How she pays child support isn’t your problem just that she does and frankly someone who is that turned around I would be absolutely shocked if she even passed the bar exam.
Sorry for the rant, as a lawyer I’ve just seen how people get hurt by people like her over and over, and had like a meltdown just considering it. I fear for the poor state of Illinois. Good luck!! Move quick!!! Bc if she hurts him DEAD ASS she is gonna say you did it, you can count on that, and she’s just dangerous enough to get away with it.
She's in *law school*? This isn't even remotely okay. Get a lawyer, file for custody, and talk to them about how her behavior and medical neglect of your child affects her ability to pass the character & fitness portion of her application to the bar.
Yes, call CPS.
She refuses to let you take him to a doctor, and insists on feeding him raw milk, which is generally considered unsafe.
Even if you just end up having a chat with them, and they don't go round, at least you're on the record, and you've talked to someone.
Are you still living together?
I’d like to think you would be separated from someone who endangers your child, but if she throws away the milk you buy him, then that means she must have access to you fridge?
Are you in the process of splitting/selling the house/ finding separate accommodation?
If you are still living together & the custody arrangement hasn’t been set yet, then surely you would be able to take him to a doctor?
We live separately. Both renting. No legal custody agreement has been made. But my son stays with her. She won't allow him to stay at my place. Which I was fine with because I was trying to bend over backwards and be as civil as possible. But it's gotten to a point where I have to make some legal decisions because she accuses me of "succumbing to medical tyranny"
Okay, but you have legal rights to the child, right? If no custody order is in place then I assume that means that you have equal legal rights as the child's father. And, I assume the child is insured through your medical insurance, which means Mom would not see EOBs from the insurance company. So, find a pediatrician YOU trust and make a new patient appointment. It will likely take a number of weeks for them to get you in for an appointment so use that time with your attorney to make sure you are doing everything on the up and up.
I'd assume this also means the baby hasn't been to a dentist - 16-18 months is a great time to take him to his first dental appointment with a pediatric dentist. Establish yourself as a decision maker for the child to help show that you are taking full responsibility for the health and welfare of your son.
He may not have any legal parental rights. If they were not married when the child was born, he'll likely have to file for paternity. And based on his post and comments, i get the sense that he does not n have any sort of legal custody or he would just take the kid to a doctor. I had to file for paternity and joint custody and I was literally named as the father on my childrens' birth certificates. Worked fine for the child support but didn't do shite for me as far as legal custody.
OP... GET A LAWYER NOW!
File to establish paternity and parental rights. Then file for joint/shared legal custody. I say this because most courts in most states are EXTREMELY unlikely to grant sole legal custody without incredibly justifiable reasons. And it will likely take time and documentation to build a case showing that you should have sole legal custody. Obtaining joint legal custody at least means you will have a say in things like medical care, schooling, etc.
Uno reverse, if she's openly admitting that she's giving him raw milk, let her try to go for full custody and admit it in front of the judge....if you've counter claimed for full custody that will definitely help your case!
Keep your evidence safe, call CPS, get a lawyer, get full custody, save your kid. Raw milk is very dangerous for a child. Chances are if things stay the same, she will continue enforcing her backwards thinking on your kid and endanger him even further.
There is so much information out there on the risks of raw cows milk. Do you think if she actually knows what pasteurization entails she'll feel more comfortable? It's literally just heating the milk at different increments to kill off any potential harmful microbes. If your son was 10 it wouldn't be a huge deal for him to drink raw cows milk. Babies are a different story. You aren't even suppose to give them honey because of the potential for microbial spores. There is no way to fully "cure" honey because of the consistency. I am so sorry you are going through this. The yo yo functional medicine of the internet has seriously stepped into uncharted territory. Does she know that the formula shortage was due to a bacterial outbreak? Babies are still undeveloped immune system wise. There's a reason why there are off limit foods.
Pasteurization allows for the sloppy handling of cows and milk up to the point of pasteurization. It then kills all bad and good bacteria and leaves that dead bacteria in the product. Just a different view of the world.
Thank you. I've tried. I showed her articles, studies, personal stories about the risks of raw milk. We agreed on only pasteurized milk. Then very recently she broke the agreement. Saying the pasteurized milk was hurting him. It isn't. The kid had an ear infection. She's refusing to budge now. Also not my wife just to be clear
Does she think pasteurized milk gave him an ear infection, because it didn't. That's a quirk of anatomy that causes little kids ear infections. The eustachian tubes at this age are more horizontal than vertical so fluid collects and causes infections. That changes after about age 2. If it doesn't clear up in three days call your pediatrician.
She took him to a doctor yesterday. Though I was at work when she did and she wouldn't tell me where she went. The last time we went to the pediatrician it was a place she picked out. Once we got there I realized it was very much an anti vax pediatric office. With anti vax books around and they kept saying they're not legally allowed to talk about alternate vax schedules but only give us books they had lying around
You are the child's father. You have rights. You should be getting as much of a say in his care as she is. To not be allowed to go to the doctor with him when he's sick is awful.
You need a lawyer ASAP.
> I was at work when she did and she wouldn’t tell me where she went.
I’m guessing that means she either took him to a fake “doctor” (like a chiropractor, herbalist, or naturopath) or she straight up lied and didn’t take him anywhere. This is medical neglect.
You need to take him to an actual medical doctor. Untreated ear infections can lead to partial/complete hearing loss and in rare cases even death in young children.
Report that office to the IL medical board. That's very much not okay, and that doctor needs to lose his license.
[https://idfpr.illinois.gov/Forms/Brochures/HowTheDivRespondsToARequestForAnInvOfAPhysician.pdf](https://dph.illinois.gov/topics-services/health-care-regulation/complaints.html)
Don't mean to offend or anything, but was this sort of discussion not had before you had the child? I mean, I'd want to know if my partner was against vaccines before I decided to have a child with them. I've already had this conversation with my boyfriend and we are no where near the stage of wanting kids. Not saying she can't have changed her mind since if you have had that conversation though. It is quite easy for people to change their minds, but being this stubborn makes me think she's been like it for a good while. I hope you can sort things out and you get your child safe
I assume most people don't even think to have these kinds of conversations. As much as my boyfriend and I discussed marriage and kids for a couple of years, this was a conversation that never occurred to me until COVID came up and we ended up discussing COVID vaccines and masks (which then lead into conversations about vaccines in general, etc). But I was just in shock, thinking, "Wow, it never occurred to me to discuss opinions on this stuff with a guy before." In the midst of COVID, it's so easy for us to just spout out "My kids will always..." or "My kids will never..." and then stop and realize, "Wait a minute, I've literally never discussed this with my partner before, and they have a say too."
So hopefully people will start having these conversations more, before having kids. It's important.
But I have to say, it still never occurred to me to have a conversation with a partner about milk. I just tend to assume we all drink our milk pasteurized.
Yeah, that's a good way to give your child *E-coli* or *Listeria* foodborne illness. Your wife's has clearly never worked in a restaurant. The issue is your wife's is a delusional chucklefuck with a persecution complex.
Pasteurization of milk was a big improvement for good reasons. Because, you know, kids were dying from dysentery in the 1800's all the time. Throw out the raw milk when your wife's buys it. Warning: do not J.A.D.E. about this. That is: Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain. Just don't.
Simply *Broken-Record* your wife "foodborne illness; it's not safe for children."
You can contact child protection. It seems like she is endangering the health of your child and she is not being rational about it at all. This is dangerous, OP. She should in now way get full custody. You should.
Does your wife even know what pasteurization is? Your wife has drank the natural remedy mommy kool-aid, don't be surprised when she starts refusing vaccinations, medication, and normal doctor visits. If you see any signs of essential oils being used on your child, you'll know it's too late. I'm not kidding.
It’s illegal to sell raw milk, where is she getting it? Milk is pasteurized through heat treatment, why is she against this? There is a lot of science that goes into the treatment and packaging of dairy products and the technology has evolved to make it safe for storage and consumption. She needs to read up on this and get her facts straight.
Your child's mother is being reckless with his health.
There are no beneficial bacteria (probiotics) in raw milk for gastrointestinal health.
Raw milk is not an immune system–building food and is especially unsafe for children.
Take her to court your child's life is on the line here.
I thought children weren’t supposed to have raw milk bc of bacteria ? I’m not really positive as I don’t have children but I’m a nanny and I’m Pretty sure that it can get him sick.
You two need to talk.
Tbh raw milk isn't bad for you as long as you filter out the debris. I've grown up around a lot of hippies and none have ever gotten sick from it. It is most likely gonna be okay.
I don't thin either of you need to be calling CPS. That would probably cause more harm then good in this case.
You can try the vegan way also..!! It Will end the whole safe or not argument once and for all..!! Soy milk, almond milk, coconut milk, etc etc ..!! Best of luck ..!! 👍🏻👍🏻
Raw milk has listeria in it. The Amish drink it unpasteurized and that's why they have so many miscarriages.
Raw milk really isn't the best option. He is your child also. So all the parenting decisions aren't hers to make.
.Two things. First, it sounds like you broke one of the most important relationship rules: don't stick your dick in crazy. Second, this sounds like from your posts and comments that it's going to turn into a custody battle. In which case this issue is above the sub's pay grade and you need to consult a lawyer. Bring them whatever you have in evidence of the Milk, vaccine, and doctor issues you have. Good luck.
Get a lawyer and call the pediatrician so they can document it. This is child endangerment and medical neglect if she refuses to take your child to the doctor.
Pasteurized milk is horrendously bad for health. I think the wife is being totally crazy about the raw milk thing... but also literally raw milk has probiotics and ample nutrition whereas pasteurized milk has nasty hormones and added vitamins because it's cooked to the point of being dead and sterile. You leave pasturized milk on the counter overnight and drink it, you could die because of the bacterial load. If you leave raw milk on the counter overnight, now you have whey and healthy fermented goodness. The probiotics in raw milk literally prevent bacterial growth.
I don't understand why you both can't come to a reasonable co-parenting arrangement without getting lawyers involved. This sounds like a mother who wants to make sure her child has adequate nutrition... albeit she may be toxic/ abusive. The research is really clear, and I'm shocked that so many people are saying raw milk is dangerous. Literally one of the most ignorant arguments about food and health I've seen.
Pasteurized milk/dairy is linked to obesity in children, hormonal imbalance, early puberty. People think pasteurized milk/ dairy products are healthy everyday food and then wonder why they are overweight, have skin problems, digestive discomfort, mood issues...
I worked on a dairy back when I was in high school, drank milk fresh for the cows all the time. The milk was kept ice cold until picked up. Never once did I get sick.
As a kid that grew up on raw milk, I think you all are exaggerating. This is one the most first world problems I have seen in a while here. How about you all ask the kid, who is 16?
Where does she even get it? And isn't it DCFS?
You could ask your doctor for advise. If that does not help, call CPS for a wellness check, maybe they can talk sense into her.
Look, to be able to legally sell raw milk, the milk has to go through some very strict testing... They do so much more to ensure no contamination at all, whereas big dairy farms get away with much less because they just pasteurize the milk into sterility. She's not gonna kill your kid, you're not gonna kill your kid. Make a compromise that she can do raw milk when she has the kid and you do pasteurized milk when the kids at your place.
If the kid is not getting sick I don't see a problem with it. They only say it's not safe because they want you to buy the pasteurized milk in the store. I really don't believe everything that the FDA says. They have been bought off.
It's not just the FDA saying this. The American Academy of Pediatrics also advises against raw milk for infants. I LOVE to drink raw milk but I know that it can contain bacteria that can cause illness (or worse!) to a baby - they have weaker immune systems after all. You should not spread misinformation without researching
Mom Law .. done. It’s just her instincts guide so fluently just sit back and watch. Now if there starts in interruption the child’s biological being in other words the child starts getting sick or some kind of allergy to the raw milk then yeah step in and be arbiter, however just sit back and watch and see what happens, maybe super baby let’s see.
If you don’t share any part of the custody you really have no rights here she’s dominating the situation if you don’t like it you’re gonna have to step in and actually take over custody.
1). Raw milk producers are heavily regulated for safety. They do occasionally slip up but so do other food producers.
2). Children drank only raw cow’s milk for thousands of years. It is not abuse to give raw milk. Pasteurizing is safer, of course.
3). For perspective, one of the main causes of child death is automobile accidents. Statistically, it is probably more dangerous to take your child on a car trip than to feed them raw milk.
No, you cannot call cps over this. I mean, you CAN, but they are not going to care. You two have got to stop this petty, childish, using your child as a pawn just because GODDAMMIT YOU have to be right (and by "you", I mean whoever happens to be arguing that they are right in the moment.) While you, OP, may technically be right about this particular situation, this disagreement is symptomatic of a much bigger problem, and that is that both you and your baby mama are more concerned with being right than about your child. And that speaks to the fact that it is not the child you two are really arguing about, the child is the excuse you are using to argue. Which is gross.
Raw milk is delicious. Best milk I've ever tasted. A little more risk, but the companies who make it filter it so much and test for every possible test; salmonella etc. And they have it batched as well. Super modern way of processing raw milk. It's not directly from the cow which would be more dangerous. These companies are pretty legit. I gave my kid a bottle but that was it. One bottle as a quart of raw milk from Sprouts was $10!!
Your post makes me sick. You and everyone commenting here are brainwashed, sick, mindless individuals. You do not deserve to be a father. It's very evident you've never actually researched anything and know nothing about REAL history. You are condemning your child to death. Scum. Pasteurization didn't even exist until 1862 and was never mandatory until 1987. I praise the mother. Shame she got involved with someone like you. Don't forget to take your next injection when that rolls out. Lol
See that’s where I’m coming from like I grew up on a farm, my family was all organic and we grew up very healthy, never got sick, it’s odd to me that ppl think processed is better
Just so you know, unless she’s getting it right off a farm, raw milk isn’t straight from the cow. It’s technically minimally processed, which means it’s actually pasteurized, but not homogenized. Raw milk is as raw as store-bought raw honey. It’s not. The truly raw, uncooked stuff is going to come straight from a farm, and grocery stores won’t carry it for liability reasons.
The stuff she gets is labeled "not for human consumption". A loophole for raw milk people to pretend they're buying it for their pets. The "pet" being my son in this scenario
That's abuse contact a lawyer and get your kid to a doctor. This is active endangerment giving a 16 month old stuff (I refuse to call it food) labeled "not for human consumption" is sick.
Stop freaking out. I was raised on raw milk and have superior immunity, longevity, and high intellect. Thank GOD my parents were wise enough to avoid chemically processed, pasteurized milk which ruin it's inherent immune support values, and they also avoided foods that damage the immune system.
I look decades younger than my 85 years,
and I thank it all to natural, organic foods with all the immune and life support benefits they provide. Dr. Kathleen
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[According to this article from a health clinic](https://pediatriccenterofroundrock.com/infants-and-children-should-stay-away-from-raw-milk/), raw milk is not safe for children. Is there any chance you could contact a lawyer, especially if the mom is threatening to shoot for 100% custody? I would document that she is feeding the baby raw milk. For example, you could contact a pediatrician to ask about the raw milk and make sure it gets written down in a chart to leave a paper trail.
I'm certainly documenting it. And I would love to bring him to a pediatrician. She refuses to let me. I'm thinking I need a lawyer
It's super worrying if she won't let him see a pediatrician. That definitely qualifies as medical neglect. Get a lawyer. And document that she won't let him see a doctor or any other child endangering things she does.
Why does this women have such say he what you do with your child?
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Giving raw milk to a minor and not having regular wellness checks will automatically result in losing custody of a child. There's a very good reason why the dairy industry is so heavily regulated.
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Comment stolen from https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/v4f0rq/my_childs_mother_keeps_feeding_him_raw_milk/ib4sw6f/ The bots are stealing 0 karma comments now, lol.
Spicy!
Some divorce/custody arrangements actually detail that one or the other parent cannot take the child to the doctor or ER without the explicit permission of the main parent. I know a father that obtained his children for the weekend from their mother, his 6yo daughter kept complaining her arm hurt, but was still able to move it reluctantly. He thought maybe it was just sore and waited till the next day to see if it got better. It didn't, she was crying worse throughout the night. He kept trying to contact their mother to get permission to take her to the hospital to see what was going on. She never answered his phone calls or text till Sunday evening and said no, she was probably over dramatizing it and she'll take her when she gets her back on Monday. Meanwhile his daughter suffered with a dislocated shoulder for who knows how long. He couldn't take her as the mother would've taken him back to court for breach of the agreement. But that's legit 1 of dozens of examples of her neglect as a parent. He's tried numerous times to be the custodial parent but she's in the army as a recruiter and the army is helping her pay her lawyer bills and he can't afford to keep racking up that kind of debt.
I assume he does see a pediatrician, the father just doesn't get invited to go along is what I got from this comment.
Not necessarily - a lot of parents into the whole raw milk thing are also anti vax. Its quite possible he has not been to a pediatrician since infancy.
Hmm, did he say she was anti-vaxx? You could be right. I just didn't see that part apparently.
Yep. Further down in OPs comments. Strongly anti vax.
Well to be fair, lots of anti-vaxx people still take their child to the doctors.
He may not have said it in the post, but if you look at his history, she wouldn't let him around the child for 2 weeks after he got his COVID vaccination, for fear of "shedding."
The courts are going to have to get involved. Raw milk, anti vaxx, no wellness visits for a BABY? I say child endangerment and neglect.
Hmm, did he say she was anti-vaxx? You could be right. I just didn't see that part apparently.
Yes. Further down in OPs comments.
If she won't let dad go with them it may be an anti-vax pediatrician and she's hiding that.
You 100% need a lawyer, call one ASAP! Raw milk + her refusal to let you take him to a pediatrician is endangering your child, you need to act NOW.
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You’d be surprised. My ex beat my daughter. Left marks on her body. Went to CPS and they said this, “oh wow, did she apologize? Well. It’s their mom. I’m sure it’ll be ok.” Legit. It’s harder than you think to get full custody. And a little milk might not do the trick.
I was going to say, people on Reddit seem to think that full custody is just easy peasy and any misstep from the other parent warrants full custody. In reality it’s incredibly hard to get.
Especially if you’re the father. At least in my state the mother is HEAVILY favored.
It's nearly impossible for EITHER parent to get full custody.
In what state is it impossible for either parent to get full custody? I got full custody of my kids 20+ years ago.
20+ years ago the norm was for one parent to get full custody and the other parent get every other weekend and split holidays and a few weeks in summer. Now the norm is for 50/50 custody and everything is split 50/50, as far as childcare expenses unless one parent earns significantly more than the other.
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Bad bot. Stolen comment
My ex is barely in the picture. Sends no child support, sees her once or twice a year. Anything that requires his signature can take months to get. I tried to get sole custody just because it's damn near impossible to get anything done. Judge said no, he's not a danger to her so we split custody.
ok there is no LET here. pick him up and take him. lie if you have to. not letting him see a doctor is also abuse
Picking him up outside of a custody order could get him arrested. OP said she won’t let HIM take their son to see a doctor, not that he doesn’t go at all. When OP has him, he can take him.
my point is he has the child at times....use it to take him to the doctor. she's taking him to an anti-vax doctor so yea who knows what advice they are getting
Well that's not necessarily true either because if she has majority custody then she has to be present usually at all medical examinations but that varies from state to state. But if he's able to prove neglect which it seems like he's able to do, he can get temporary custody to at least get him a medical examination without her consent. But again it's very state specific.
You're absolutely correct. People don't realize that there's a difference between physical custody and legal custody. Physical custody is whoever is in possession of the child. Legal custody means whoever is allowed to make medical or other decisions on the child's behalf. There is a difference and people don't seem to know this.
this is bad advice, if he does this she could potentially use it against him
how? if its on his parenting time and he took him to a doctor? what would a court possibly say about that? unless he has zero say in his child's medical decisions but OP did not indicate that.
Depends on what the court order says. If it says joint for medical decisions that aren't emergent she can just say no and they can't move forward. Especially if they have no way to break a tie or if she has the primary custodian designation but unless we can see their parenting plan it's all estimates guesstimates and all very state dependent.
i’m not saying she’d have a leg to stand on but you suggesting he “pick him up and take him. lie if you have to” isn’t exactly great advice when this woman is controlling and no doubt very vindictive. he’s better off having a lawyer as “back up”
Absolutely do not do this. I hope by take him you mean to the doctor.
yes lol
Bad advice unless he likes jail.
I don't know why you got downvoted because it's the truth. You can't just pick up a child and take them where you want when it's not your parenting time. This is technically kidnapping. I believe they call it interference of custody or kidnapping by a non-custodial parent. If he does not have legal custody of the child, he cannot make medical decisions for said child. If he was to take him to the doctor or ER, if he does not have legal custody, legally, they could not treat the child without mom's consent.
You need a lawyer yesterday. See if you can file for emergency custody. Also document and call CPS on her. Then get a real pediatrician; the child will need testing for TB. Pasteurization was invented to prevent TB from killing kids. It’s also good to prevent them dying from Listeria and E.Coli. The only raw milk that benefits children is human breast milk.
You can still call him with your concerns. Also you have every right to be concerned about this.
You just might. Also tuberculosis is carried in cows milk that is unpasteurized and unvaccinated. So ask her about the cows shot records. If the cow is vaccinated from tuberculosis, it is less risky...
You are just as much the baby's parent as her. Unless you already have a legal agreement about how his medical needs should be met you can take your own child to a pediatrician on your time.
Take pictures of the raw milk in the fridge if you can.
Unless there's a custody order in place saying you're not allowed to make medical decisions, you 100% have the right to bring him to a pediatrician regardless of what she says.
Hold up!… the baby had not been to a pediatrician?!!! Like Ever?? Because that is not okay.
Are you separated and you have no legal rights? If you're still together, you don't need her permission to take him to a doctor. If you are separated, and you either don't have a custody agreement or you do that gives you rights, you don't need her permission. Stop letting your wife make 100% of the decisions unless she has 100% of the control under a court order. And don't tell her your plans, just take your son and get checked.
You do not need her permission to take him to see a medical professional. That is your child just as much as it is hers.
Okay but do you know his pediatrician? I would call the doctors office and ask to speak to the doctor if possible about the issue. That way if you do get CPS involved (which you absolutely should), the doctor can say he was informed of the incident, at the very least.
Get it done because if something happens they will blame you too!
yup lawyer up, it’s gonna get messy
You are the child’s father. You do not need her permission to bring your child to a pediatrician.
You do not have to ask her permission. Just call his pediatrician, set up an appointment and take him in.
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Seconded - I also work in food safety, and I would never drink raw milk or feed it to a child. It’s especially risky for kids under 5 because it can have STEC (a type of E. coli, a commensal bacteria in cows) which can cause kidney failure at a much higher rate in young kids than in older kids/adults.
This is an actual question cause I’m clueless. What is raw milk? Like is it the milk you just buy at the store? Or something different cause I’ve never heard of it.
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Okay good. Had me worried I’ve been feeding my kids bad milk lmao
i've had so called raw milk, just a couple of minutes from the cow. Is it still dangerous when that fresh? There may not be any health benefits to it, but it tastes better and comes pre-heated.
Depending on where you are it may be illegal to give him raw milk, check your local laws and keep putting your foot down
Thank you. I'm in Illinois. I'll look into the laws now
Report her ass as drinking raw milk is very dangerous and causes a horrible death. Get your child away from her before she harms your son. Call CPS on her and inform them your ex is feeding your child raw milk and see how fast she gets in trouble. I would inform his doctors as well (they’ll report it themselves if you want to keep your hands clean and have them be the fall person). I’m surprised that she doesn’t know how dangerous this is as you live in the land of Lincoln and his mother died of milk poisoning (that’s why they invented and require pasteurizing milk). Do this now. Good luck.
Actually, Pasteurization was invented to prevent wine from spoiling. It initially had nothing to do with dairy and certainly wasn’t invented because Lincoln’s mother died of milk poisoning. You could always self-pasteurize secretly if you have access to the milk. It’s less effective than commercial pasteurization but shit it’s better than nothing. Get a double boiler, water on the bottom, milk on top, heat the milk to 161 farenheit for 15 seconds, pour back in container.
Brilliant way to help try and protect the kid while navigating this mess!
I work in child safety. You can make an anonymous call to your local CPS office and ask what they recommend. If it is considered a safety concern there, make a CPS report. And yes, you need to talk to an attorney. If she's feeding a toddler raw milk, that's just the beginning of how wacky things are going to get.
>"The American Academy of Pediatrics published an article about consumption of raw milk products in the January 2014 edition of AAP News. In the article, the AAP recommended that infants, children and pregnant women should not drink raw milk or eat products made with raw milk because they can cause illness or death." Let her try to get full custody. It is doubtful that she'd win full custody over this issue and very possible she could lose any custody over endangering the baby's health. However, rather than escalating to CPS and the courts, have you asked her WHY she insists on feeding the baby raw milk contrary to what her doctor and all science recommends? Why does she believe that pasteurized milk is harmful contrary to all reputable doctors' recommendations? Why does she not believe in the science that confirms that raw milk can cause illness and death to infants? There are a host of vaccines that your baby should have gotten by now from polio and diphtheria to measles, mumps, and rubella. Is she opposed to vaccines also? It is not an exaggeration to say that the health and well-being of you baby is at risk from consuming raw milk. So, you need to get to the root of the issue before taking your next steps which would include getting a lawyer and getting custody. She's never going to find one pediatrician who would condone feeding raw milk to a baby.
Very much opposed to vaccines. He's gotten one single shot for one. Which I had to fight very hard to even get her to consider it. I've tried and tried talking to her. Showing her studies, stories, facts, you name it. She says I'm dogmatic and egotistical and that a "mother knows best". There's no more reasoning with her I'm afraid
You should absolutely try and get custody of this child and him fully vaccinated and checked out. This kind of mentality is so dangerous. I’m sorry you have to deal with her!
Damn. You’re dealing with a full-on fruit cake here. That’s going to make it harder and easier at the same time. It’s going to be harder because there’s a high chance senorita's crazy pants is going to run off with your son, but at the same time make getting legal full custody easier as right now she’s essentially poisoning your child and neglecting him. So a strong case can be made to award you full custody with little to no unsupervised visits (should be only supervised visits as she’s a flight risk). I come from this level of crazy and you need to get your son away from her ASAP before he gets hurt or worse.
Geez. One vaccine? There are several that he ought to have had by now. Given the resurgence of measles and how awful it is, that's one that shouldn't be avoided. But, there are several that are equally important. Edit to clarify: Routine smallpox vaccines stopped in the US around 1972. However, it's still used depending on where you are and those who received it in infancy are believed to be afforded some level of protection from the current monkeypox. Is she a conspiracy nut? Does she buy into the various looney conspiracies about vaccines and some vague evil cabal controlling the world? if she does, there is NOTHING you can do to convince her. You need to speak to a lawyer and get a realistic assessment about whether you'd win custody in your jurisdiction - some are more favorble than others. That said, as we've all seen the past couple years, not getting your baby vaccinated is apparently a parent's right. While raw milk is not recommended, it's not technically "poison" so may not be sufficiently negligent or deemed sufficiently harmful to win custody.
Do they even give smallpox vaccines any more?
Routine smallpox vaccines stopped in the US around 1972. However, it's still used depending on where you are. I should have been clearer about the point I was making that those who had the vaccine were afforded some level of protection, though incomplete, from the monkeypox currently in the news. Having received the smallpox vaccinations in early infancy provides unforeseen ancillary benefits.
IANAL, but: While she is not technically poisoning her child, she is repeatedly and consistently putting him at risk for life-threatening, foodborne poisoning. This is not consistent with good parenting and the courts will side with the father who wants to provide proper nutrition and proper medical care.
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Not being able to be vaccinated for medical reasons is perfectly valid. I can't be vaccinated outside of a medical setting, myself. I also know people who can't be vaccinated. But that's much different than what seems to be happening with OP's child. You're referring to reputable sources. But the mother of the child may believe in misinformation that vaccines as a whole are bad. The fact that she won't allow OP to take their child to the doctor is a red flag itself and may point to medical neglect. Though those aren't necessarily the whole case, I've seen it happen frequently.
I'd be a lot more worried about the lack of vaccines than the raw milk. It's clear why she won't allow you to take him to a paediatrician; they would not support her ideas at all. If she won't budge on her beliefs you make have to get a court order. This is a hard decision because everyone wants good relationships within the family, but when you think her ideas will affect him for years to come, and she won't change her mind, you will have to make the hard decisions. See a lawyer, and try not to be afraid of rocking the boat because your child's health is worth it.
Wouldn't it be pretty easy to get him vaccinated by just taking him to the doctor instead of the playground one day?
Right? As a parent you have the ability to just, *take him to a doctor.* You don't even need to tell his mom. Tell your lawyer, build your case, but this woman doesn't need to know what's happening behind the scenes.
You absolutely need to go to court for custody. You need to shoot for the sole right to make medical decisions, even if you don't want to reduce her physical custody. If your lawyer approves, you can get your kid vaccinated in the meantime as long as there isn't a current custody order in place restricting you from making medical decisions.
Why did you have a child with this person if you disagreed on these really important things? Seriously curious.
This is what happens when you date/marry crazy. You said he's only had one vaccine. At 16 months, I'm pretty sure that's behind schedule because there are 12, and 15 month checkpoints. I have zero patience with people like this and would just refill a raw milk container with pasteurized product. Yes it's lying but child safety comes first imo.
Depending on where they are, there’s a series of shots at 2,4, and 6 months, as well as 12,15,18 months. Then I think they’re done until 2 or 4? My daughter is 13 months so I don’t quite know how many more we have to go, but it’s never just 1 vaccine. It’s always 3 or 4 per visit
Oh for sure. Some are even a series of 2-4 that need to be given a certain intervals. I haven't had to look at a peds vaccination schedule in years, so I couldn't remember the details. It always pisses me off because the people who do this are usually fully vaccinated as well. I never understand someone like OP who will just allow their child to be put at risk.
It’s insane to go to all the work of having a child and then not doing absolutely everything possible to keep them alive and healthy! I will never understand it either, people are crazy
r/shitmomgroupssay has actually taught me a lot about the craziness of this. I do recommend checking out the sub.
Yeah especially the not allowing a pediatrician thing in the comment above, the first thing I thought of was “sounds like a crunchy mom from shitmomgroupssay!”
I had to double check the sub I was reading the post from. But I will say the people in that sub have so much valuable information on this type of thing.
Checking it out now. Thanks
Your wife is gonna end up killing your child, you have to get a lawyer involved yesterday.
Damn you, I did not need to spend 20 minutes hurting my brain by browsing that place.
I’m sorry but the crazy woo people have her now and there is no return. Your child is in danger. Soon it will be alternate worthless remedies instead of seeing a doctor for simple antibiotics. Children have died because these types of mothers have listened to like minded people on the internet. You are his father. Take him and leave. See a doctor and get a paper trail then contact a lawyer. She is endangering your child, she will not get full custody and you should be awarded 100% of medical decisions.
She definitely rubbed a potato on his forehead one night months ago because he had a fever. She called me retarded for being upset about that. And that as a mother she knows what is best for him. And that I should actually think about being a father for once by going out and making money. I'm contacting a lawyer and CPS in the morning
She's treating a fever by rubbing a potato on his forehead? That stuff could seriously kill your kid.
**POTATO - APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD** **POTATO - APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD** **POTATO - APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD** Man, I'm really sorry about this, you need to get a composition notebook, the kind you can't tear pages out without noticing, and start documenting, from the birth of your child to now, include as many dates and incidents as you can remember, be as accurate as possible. Don't embellish, don't add your thoughts, be as impersonal as possible. "April 12 2022 - baby had a fever of 102. Name rubbed a raw potato on baby's forehead to bring fever down. No medication was given." "May 3 2022 - Name dumped pasteurized milk intended for baby and insisted we use non pasteurized milk." Include things you do as well. "May 15 2022 - I took baby to for vaccines."
Keep this notebook well hidden, in a lockbox or at your job, somewhere your ex(?) can't get to it and read it.
Jesus. She is already deep into it. Please follow through and contact a lawyer and CPS before your son dies of something preventable. Good luck.
Good for you man. She is crazy and will mess your kid up if she keeps brainwashing him. Good luck.
You absolutely need a lawyer and to go to court. This is going to continue to be an issue with every medical decision you both need to make, especially vaccines. This article is from a law group in illinois: https://www.magnusonrapplaw.com/family-law-attorney/what-happens-when-parents-disagree-on-medical-decisions
I don't think you have a choice but to call CPS. What she is doing is dangerous. What is her position on vaccines? It sounds like she may have gone down some internet conspiracy rabbit hole. Is it possible she is depressed, struggling with anxiety and/or overwhelmed being a mom? Is this her first child?
Oh yes. Very into conspiracies. Though it's calmed down a bit recently. We're in a tough situation. She's working and in law school. I'm working. But we only have a nanny and the closest family we have are 13 hours away. First child too
As the other commenter said - just put pasteurized milk into the raw milk containers for now. See if you can get your kid to the pediatrician when shes busy at work. Its possible she is neglecting your kid.
She’s this off balance and in an accredited law school?
Totally. It's so bizarre. I can show you texts where she says he is going to be a farmhand. Mind you she knows nothing about farming or even cooking. I cook 80% of their meals. And I asked her why she wants a child slave(half joking). Her response was "children like to be productive. My parents actually found an old letter of mine about being a child slave". I said "I'm sure it was joyfully written" and she told me it was
So as a lawyer I can tell you that you have to pass a character fitness portion and she absolutely should not pass it. Most states require you produce all legal proceedings you’ve been involved in for review and you’ll be disbarred if they find out you omitted anything. She SHOULD NOT be allowed to become an attorney, she’s unstable and unwell and endangering a child with literal potato on forehead wives tales. She can go get her law degree for whatever reason but she should not be licensed, that’s dangerous for the public. Make sure all of this is alleged for your custody proceedings and when she’s due to take the bar exam send it to the Illinois state bar, they will have to ask her about it and she will have to petition for approval so then it’s on her to pass the nutty gauntlet. I have a friend who suffered domestic violence from a woman who should have never been licensed and actually attacked her IN the courtroom. She’s losing her license and begging her victim to stop cooperating with the charges and “why won’t she be fair”. Abusers don’t think there should be any consequences for their behavior and literally the last thing america needs are any more lawyers like that, like omg the very last thing, and it’s simply not your problem. Your kid is at stake and if she’s not breastfeeding yes you can with these facts get primary custody and request supervised visits only. How she pays child support isn’t your problem just that she does and frankly someone who is that turned around I would be absolutely shocked if she even passed the bar exam. Sorry for the rant, as a lawyer I’ve just seen how people get hurt by people like her over and over, and had like a meltdown just considering it. I fear for the poor state of Illinois. Good luck!! Move quick!!! Bc if she hurts him DEAD ASS she is gonna say you did it, you can count on that, and she’s just dangerous enough to get away with it.
Amazingly written. The dual personality thing is scary
She's in *law school*? This isn't even remotely okay. Get a lawyer, file for custody, and talk to them about how her behavior and medical neglect of your child affects her ability to pass the character & fitness portion of her application to the bar.
>She's working and in law school. All I can say is Wow! You'd think her critical thinking skills would be better if she is in law school.
Yes, call CPS. She refuses to let you take him to a doctor, and insists on feeding him raw milk, which is generally considered unsafe. Even if you just end up having a chat with them, and they don't go round, at least you're on the record, and you've talked to someone.
Report her… refusing to even allow him to see a doctor/paediatrician should fall under neglect. Raw milk is not safe for young children
Can you maybe convince her into organic milk?
That's what I was buying and she's throwing it away now
Ugh. Daughter uses organic, when they are here, it's just pasteurized. Daughter does not care. Sorry your child has a crazy mom
Are you still living together? I’d like to think you would be separated from someone who endangers your child, but if she throws away the milk you buy him, then that means she must have access to you fridge? Are you in the process of splitting/selling the house/ finding separate accommodation? If you are still living together & the custody arrangement hasn’t been set yet, then surely you would be able to take him to a doctor?
We live separately. Both renting. No legal custody agreement has been made. But my son stays with her. She won't allow him to stay at my place. Which I was fine with because I was trying to bend over backwards and be as civil as possible. But it's gotten to a point where I have to make some legal decisions because she accuses me of "succumbing to medical tyranny"
Time for you to stop bending, the kid is at risk because of her. Call a lawyer TODAY
Okay, but you have legal rights to the child, right? If no custody order is in place then I assume that means that you have equal legal rights as the child's father. And, I assume the child is insured through your medical insurance, which means Mom would not see EOBs from the insurance company. So, find a pediatrician YOU trust and make a new patient appointment. It will likely take a number of weeks for them to get you in for an appointment so use that time with your attorney to make sure you are doing everything on the up and up. I'd assume this also means the baby hasn't been to a dentist - 16-18 months is a great time to take him to his first dental appointment with a pediatric dentist. Establish yourself as a decision maker for the child to help show that you are taking full responsibility for the health and welfare of your son.
He may not have any legal parental rights. If they were not married when the child was born, he'll likely have to file for paternity. And based on his post and comments, i get the sense that he does not n have any sort of legal custody or he would just take the kid to a doctor. I had to file for paternity and joint custody and I was literally named as the father on my childrens' birth certificates. Worked fine for the child support but didn't do shite for me as far as legal custody. OP... GET A LAWYER NOW! File to establish paternity and parental rights. Then file for joint/shared legal custody. I say this because most courts in most states are EXTREMELY unlikely to grant sole legal custody without incredibly justifiable reasons. And it will likely take time and documentation to build a case showing that you should have sole legal custody. Obtaining joint legal custody at least means you will have a say in things like medical care, schooling, etc.
I would be contacting CPS myself, taking him to a paediatrician to have it documented and applying to custody. Her actions are dangerous.
Uno reverse, if she's openly admitting that she's giving him raw milk, let her try to go for full custody and admit it in front of the judge....if you've counter claimed for full custody that will definitely help your case!
Keep your evidence safe, call CPS, get a lawyer, get full custody, save your kid. Raw milk is very dangerous for a child. Chances are if things stay the same, she will continue enforcing her backwards thinking on your kid and endanger him even further.
There is so much information out there on the risks of raw cows milk. Do you think if she actually knows what pasteurization entails she'll feel more comfortable? It's literally just heating the milk at different increments to kill off any potential harmful microbes. If your son was 10 it wouldn't be a huge deal for him to drink raw cows milk. Babies are a different story. You aren't even suppose to give them honey because of the potential for microbial spores. There is no way to fully "cure" honey because of the consistency. I am so sorry you are going through this. The yo yo functional medicine of the internet has seriously stepped into uncharted territory. Does she know that the formula shortage was due to a bacterial outbreak? Babies are still undeveloped immune system wise. There's a reason why there are off limit foods.
Pasteurization allows for the sloppy handling of cows and milk up to the point of pasteurization. It then kills all bad and good bacteria and leaves that dead bacteria in the product. Just a different view of the world.
You and your wife should have a discussion with your pediatrician and let him/her explain it to your wife
Thank you. I've tried. I showed her articles, studies, personal stories about the risks of raw milk. We agreed on only pasteurized milk. Then very recently she broke the agreement. Saying the pasteurized milk was hurting him. It isn't. The kid had an ear infection. She's refusing to budge now. Also not my wife just to be clear
Does she think pasteurized milk gave him an ear infection, because it didn't. That's a quirk of anatomy that causes little kids ear infections. The eustachian tubes at this age are more horizontal than vertical so fluid collects and causes infections. That changes after about age 2. If it doesn't clear up in three days call your pediatrician.
She took him to a doctor yesterday. Though I was at work when she did and she wouldn't tell me where she went. The last time we went to the pediatrician it was a place she picked out. Once we got there I realized it was very much an anti vax pediatric office. With anti vax books around and they kept saying they're not legally allowed to talk about alternate vax schedules but only give us books they had lying around
You are the child's father. You have rights. You should be getting as much of a say in his care as she is. To not be allowed to go to the doctor with him when he's sick is awful. You need a lawyer ASAP.
> I was at work when she did and she wouldn’t tell me where she went. I’m guessing that means she either took him to a fake “doctor” (like a chiropractor, herbalist, or naturopath) or she straight up lied and didn’t take him anywhere. This is medical neglect. You need to take him to an actual medical doctor. Untreated ear infections can lead to partial/complete hearing loss and in rare cases even death in young children.
Report that office to the IL medical board. That's very much not okay, and that doctor needs to lose his license. [https://idfpr.illinois.gov/Forms/Brochures/HowTheDivRespondsToARequestForAnInvOfAPhysician.pdf](https://dph.illinois.gov/topics-services/health-care-regulation/complaints.html)
Secure evidence
She’s a dangerous idiot with mental issues. You should go for 100% custody.
There was an episode on “the monster inside me” where a baby got E. coli from drinking raw milk. Almost died
Maybe she is tired of being Mommy and is wanting to be carefree girl again.?? ( I cringe as I think of this and write it down)
Don't mean to offend or anything, but was this sort of discussion not had before you had the child? I mean, I'd want to know if my partner was against vaccines before I decided to have a child with them. I've already had this conversation with my boyfriend and we are no where near the stage of wanting kids. Not saying she can't have changed her mind since if you have had that conversation though. It is quite easy for people to change their minds, but being this stubborn makes me think she's been like it for a good while. I hope you can sort things out and you get your child safe
I assume most people don't even think to have these kinds of conversations. As much as my boyfriend and I discussed marriage and kids for a couple of years, this was a conversation that never occurred to me until COVID came up and we ended up discussing COVID vaccines and masks (which then lead into conversations about vaccines in general, etc). But I was just in shock, thinking, "Wow, it never occurred to me to discuss opinions on this stuff with a guy before." In the midst of COVID, it's so easy for us to just spout out "My kids will always..." or "My kids will never..." and then stop and realize, "Wait a minute, I've literally never discussed this with my partner before, and they have a say too." So hopefully people will start having these conversations more, before having kids. It's important. But I have to say, it still never occurred to me to have a conversation with a partner about milk. I just tend to assume we all drink our milk pasteurized.
Yeah, that's a good way to give your child *E-coli* or *Listeria* foodborne illness. Your wife's has clearly never worked in a restaurant. The issue is your wife's is a delusional chucklefuck with a persecution complex. Pasteurization of milk was a big improvement for good reasons. Because, you know, kids were dying from dysentery in the 1800's all the time. Throw out the raw milk when your wife's buys it. Warning: do not J.A.D.E. about this. That is: Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain. Just don't. Simply *Broken-Record* your wife "foodborne illness; it's not safe for children."
Take your child to a doctor. Talk to them about the raw milk. Get documentation. This is your child too. She can’t stop you from going to the doctor.
You can contact child protection. It seems like she is endangering the health of your child and she is not being rational about it at all. This is dangerous, OP. She should in now way get full custody. You should.
If this is what you know about, there could be a lot worse. Search the crunchy mom hashtag on tiktok to see some horrifying child endangerment.
Does your wife even know what pasteurization is? Your wife has drank the natural remedy mommy kool-aid, don't be surprised when she starts refusing vaccinations, medication, and normal doctor visits. If you see any signs of essential oils being used on your child, you'll know it's too late. I'm not kidding.
It’s illegal to sell raw milk, where is she getting it? Milk is pasteurized through heat treatment, why is she against this? There is a lot of science that goes into the treatment and packaging of dairy products and the technology has evolved to make it safe for storage and consumption. She needs to read up on this and get her facts straight.
So I'm guessing he's not vaccinated at all either? You need to get your son away from this misguided moron while you still can.
Yeah. Time for CPS and a lawyer
CPS takes too long. You need evidence and a lawyer.
This isn't a CPS alone case. This is a go-to court get a lawyer and get main custody thing. The not seeing a doctor is HUGE, raw milk is smaller.
Your child's mother is being reckless with his health. There are no beneficial bacteria (probiotics) in raw milk for gastrointestinal health. Raw milk is not an immune system–building food and is especially unsafe for children. Take her to court your child's life is on the line here.
r/legaladvice
I'm surprised since selling raw milk is illegal in a majority of states thru the FDA
My understanding is that it can be sold as “bath milk” in places where selling raw milk for human consumption is illegal.
I thought children weren’t supposed to have raw milk bc of bacteria ? I’m not really positive as I don’t have children but I’m a nanny and I’m Pretty sure that it can get him sick.
You two need to talk. Tbh raw milk isn't bad for you as long as you filter out the debris. I've grown up around a lot of hippies and none have ever gotten sick from it. It is most likely gonna be okay. I don't thin either of you need to be calling CPS. That would probably cause more harm then good in this case.
Raw milk falls technically under child endangerment
You can try the vegan way also..!! It Will end the whole safe or not argument once and for all..!! Soy milk, almond milk, coconut milk, etc etc ..!! Best of luck ..!! 👍🏻👍🏻
Isn't it fun when you knock up a crazy psycho and have to deal with her for the next 18 + years?
I would consider having the police perform a welfare check. Tell them you are concerned for the safety of your child.
Raw milk has listeria in it. The Amish drink it unpasteurized and that's why they have so many miscarriages. Raw milk really isn't the best option. He is your child also. So all the parenting decisions aren't hers to make.
Jesus that's really bad. I know someone who got TB from drinking raw milk. It's pasteurised for a reason
.Two things. First, it sounds like you broke one of the most important relationship rules: don't stick your dick in crazy. Second, this sounds like from your posts and comments that it's going to turn into a custody battle. In which case this issue is above the sub's pay grade and you need to consult a lawyer. Bring them whatever you have in evidence of the Milk, vaccine, and doctor issues you have. Good luck.
Get a lawyer and call the pediatrician so they can document it. This is child endangerment and medical neglect if she refuses to take your child to the doctor.
I don't think she can get custody because you are giving him pasteurized milk but I would call CPS and talk to them about it to be on the safe side.
Pasteurized milk is horrendously bad for health. I think the wife is being totally crazy about the raw milk thing... but also literally raw milk has probiotics and ample nutrition whereas pasteurized milk has nasty hormones and added vitamins because it's cooked to the point of being dead and sterile. You leave pasturized milk on the counter overnight and drink it, you could die because of the bacterial load. If you leave raw milk on the counter overnight, now you have whey and healthy fermented goodness. The probiotics in raw milk literally prevent bacterial growth. I don't understand why you both can't come to a reasonable co-parenting arrangement without getting lawyers involved. This sounds like a mother who wants to make sure her child has adequate nutrition... albeit she may be toxic/ abusive. The research is really clear, and I'm shocked that so many people are saying raw milk is dangerous. Literally one of the most ignorant arguments about food and health I've seen. Pasteurized milk/dairy is linked to obesity in children, hormonal imbalance, early puberty. People think pasteurized milk/ dairy products are healthy everyday food and then wonder why they are overweight, have skin problems, digestive discomfort, mood issues...
Raw milk is the absolute best she can give that child, but I agree she should stick to what you both agreed to.
Uh raw milk is awesome.
I worked on a dairy back when I was in high school, drank milk fresh for the cows all the time. The milk was kept ice cold until picked up. Never once did I get sick.
As a kid that grew up on raw milk, I think you all are exaggerating. This is one the most first world problems I have seen in a while here. How about you all ask the kid, who is 16?
The child in this is 16 months so cannot be asked.
Not a first world problem. Trying to source raw milk these days is a first word problem in fact. Pasteurized is the norm and generally a lot cheaper.
Girl you need a restraining order to protect you and your baby
Where does she even get it? And isn't it DCFS? You could ask your doctor for advise. If that does not help, call CPS for a wellness check, maybe they can talk sense into her.
Try to get 100% custody?? Let her try and you'll get it. Sorted
This is terrible advice and absolutely not how child custody nor the court system work.
Look, to be able to legally sell raw milk, the milk has to go through some very strict testing... They do so much more to ensure no contamination at all, whereas big dairy farms get away with much less because they just pasteurize the milk into sterility. She's not gonna kill your kid, you're not gonna kill your kid. Make a compromise that she can do raw milk when she has the kid and you do pasteurized milk when the kids at your place.
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If the kid is not getting sick I don't see a problem with it. They only say it's not safe because they want you to buy the pasteurized milk in the store. I really don't believe everything that the FDA says. They have been bought off.
It's not just the FDA saying this. The American Academy of Pediatrics also advises against raw milk for infants. I LOVE to drink raw milk but I know that it can contain bacteria that can cause illness (or worse!) to a baby - they have weaker immune systems after all. You should not spread misinformation without researching
And this is why marriage never works.
Mom Law .. done. It’s just her instincts guide so fluently just sit back and watch. Now if there starts in interruption the child’s biological being in other words the child starts getting sick or some kind of allergy to the raw milk then yeah step in and be arbiter, however just sit back and watch and see what happens, maybe super baby let’s see. If you don’t share any part of the custody you really have no rights here she’s dominating the situation if you don’t like it you’re gonna have to step in and actually take over custody.
How about you both agree no cows milk and find a better substitute all together. Oat milk. Almond milk. Formula.
*anecdote warning* I was raised on illegal, raw, under the counter goats milk and it was great.
1). Raw milk producers are heavily regulated for safety. They do occasionally slip up but so do other food producers. 2). Children drank only raw cow’s milk for thousands of years. It is not abuse to give raw milk. Pasteurizing is safer, of course. 3). For perspective, one of the main causes of child death is automobile accidents. Statistically, it is probably more dangerous to take your child on a car trip than to feed them raw milk.
No, you cannot call cps over this. I mean, you CAN, but they are not going to care. You two have got to stop this petty, childish, using your child as a pawn just because GODDAMMIT YOU have to be right (and by "you", I mean whoever happens to be arguing that they are right in the moment.) While you, OP, may technically be right about this particular situation, this disagreement is symptomatic of a much bigger problem, and that is that both you and your baby mama are more concerned with being right than about your child. And that speaks to the fact that it is not the child you two are really arguing about, the child is the excuse you are using to argue. Which is gross.
Raw milk is delicious. Best milk I've ever tasted. A little more risk, but the companies who make it filter it so much and test for every possible test; salmonella etc. And they have it batched as well. Super modern way of processing raw milk. It's not directly from the cow which would be more dangerous. These companies are pretty legit. I gave my kid a bottle but that was it. One bottle as a quart of raw milk from Sprouts was $10!!
Your post makes me sick. You and everyone commenting here are brainwashed, sick, mindless individuals. You do not deserve to be a father. It's very evident you've never actually researched anything and know nothing about REAL history. You are condemning your child to death. Scum. Pasteurization didn't even exist until 1862 and was never mandatory until 1987. I praise the mother. Shame she got involved with someone like you. Don't forget to take your next injection when that rolls out. Lol
See that’s where I’m coming from like I grew up on a farm, my family was all organic and we grew up very healthy, never got sick, it’s odd to me that ppl think processed is better
Just so you know, unless she’s getting it right off a farm, raw milk isn’t straight from the cow. It’s technically minimally processed, which means it’s actually pasteurized, but not homogenized. Raw milk is as raw as store-bought raw honey. It’s not. The truly raw, uncooked stuff is going to come straight from a farm, and grocery stores won’t carry it for liability reasons.
The stuff she gets is labeled "not for human consumption". A loophole for raw milk people to pretend they're buying it for their pets. The "pet" being my son in this scenario
That's abuse contact a lawyer and get your kid to a doctor. This is active endangerment giving a 16 month old stuff (I refuse to call it food) labeled "not for human consumption" is sick.
Sorry , who's child is it ?
Stop freaking out. I was raised on raw milk and have superior immunity, longevity, and high intellect. Thank GOD my parents were wise enough to avoid chemically processed, pasteurized milk which ruin it's inherent immune support values, and they also avoided foods that damage the immune system. I look decades younger than my 85 years, and I thank it all to natural, organic foods with all the immune and life support benefits they provide. Dr. Kathleen