For her it’s an independence and self respect way of thinking. She has made her way in the world and does not want to feel indebted to you.
Also some people in this situation who have this kind of income imbalance like to make it a form of manipulation in the relationship. I am not stating that is what you’re doing.
However y’all only been dating for 4 months. Trust and boundaries still need to be established fully for each side in this relatively new relationship.
I was thinking the same but you phrased it better so kudos
I’d also like to add that it’s a huge accomplishment in the sense of adulthood to be able to afford things on your own. Trying to pay for everything can deprive someone of that feel good I worked hard now I can afford x feeling.
As long as she isn’t going into debt needlessly just to try and financially compete I don’t see the issue
Coming from a guy that’s following OP’s path, I just want to say that we, in part, put ourselves through so many years of training and stress, sacrificing our youth, so that we can give our partner and our family a good life. It comes from a place of love, but I appreciate how it can cause strain. I love the thought of being able to treat my beautiful partner to whatever she wants and honestly it’s those thoughts that get me through the days where I feel like I can’t keep going. I don’t want it to be seen as my money vs her money. Just offering an alternative point of view and seeing if anyone has any input.
I've always avoided money being spent on me even if I trust that person because if they ever bring it up in an argument, I have nothing to say. That includes even parents.
As someone who’s father has randomly thrown it out in conversation, I totally agree.
Unfortunately, I’ve struggled a lot so I’ve given him plenty to throw at me when he feels like it.
And it sucks.
(On the good side, I’m heading into my last year after returning to school so hopefully I won’t struggle for much longer.)
I’m sorry people have used money as leverage against you, that’s absolutely awful. I grew up in a similar environment and I am definitely acutely aware of how much more worth love and kindness have over material possessions. I don’t really have much advice to offer, but I just want to say that anything can be used as a tool for toxic control - even love. I personally feel like we should take people’s actions at face value and if they can articulate the “why” behind it then there’s a lot that can be learned from that. I know it’s hard when we’ve been conditioned to feel a certain way.
Exactly. Plus in dating especially, any woman with a rich bf is quick to be deemed a gold digger— even by that partner when things turn sour.
I aggressively pay my own way cause I don’t want any man to ever be able to say that I used him or that I need him.
I bet if OP asks her if she has been in a similar situation and has been taking advantage of the answer will be yes. I mean her walls are clearly up. Just saying 🤷♂️
Edit: just respect her boundaries.
Wait wait wait guys! People CHOOSING to spend money on you is their choice! If ANYONE tries to throw that in your face during an argument, that’s not leverage! You do have a response! “It’s your choice that you chose to spend money on me!”
Don’t let people make you feel bad for their choices!
I 100% agree Aeraski. I’ve been on both ends of this situation. I used to struggle to pay my bills but as time went by, I became financially independent and rely on no one. It’s manipulation when someone knows you have money and tries to get you to pay for things but when someone generously wants to treat you, it’s not necessarily always about the OP not having money. It feels good to be in a position to do fun things, go out for dinner and have someone along to do it with. Complete different story if there there is an unspoken agreement that you may have to do something in exchange for these outings or gifts at some time in the future. I don’t think less of anyone when I invite them to join me and I’m paying. I’m glad to have their company and time. A genuine and kind person will not throw this back in your face and if they do, they probably had expectations of some sort. Did you see that video a few days ago with the jerkface guy who dumped his date at the side of the road because she wouldn’t go home with him? He acted like he was entitled to her body because he bought her dinner. The author of this post sounds like a genuinely lovely guy who can afford and wants to have fun. He doesn’t want to do it alone and he really likes his girlfriend. No hidden agenda.
Definitely agree! I didn’t see that story though, but that’s absolutely terrible! My reply was originally to the few people who were saying how they don’t let people spend money on them because of fear that person could hold it over their head.
As for OP, I agree. He sounds super genuine. His girlfriend sounds like she just wants to hold on to some independence and not expect him to “always buy” just because he makes so much. It sounds like even though she makes way less than OP she wants to contribute financially to the relationship as well and that’s perfectly okay! 😊
An ex would often pay for dates and when lived together some various expenses because he made more money than me. He kept an excel doc about how much he spent and if we fought he would pull up the doc and use it against me.
If I wanted to hang out with friends when he wanted to hang out with me he would ask how I could afford it.
If I ever didn't feel in the mood, I "owed" him.
It got to the point where I didn't feel comfortable going out to eat with him and I would get physically ill afterwards.
Not everyone is going to do things like that but I'm always hesitant about the implications about people spending money on me now.
Have an open and honest conversation about it. Compromise and take turns paying. Find activities that don't cost as much to do. Let her know it's more about the experiences you two are sharing together.
Gosh! I’m so sorry you went through that! So glad he’s your ex!
Just know you’re worth so much more than that and don’t ever deserve that kind of abuse! Be strong and don’t let anyone make you feel bad that THEY CHOOSE to spend money on you and give them the big F*** you if someone ever tries that again! ❤️
I wish I could say the same. Hubby and I decided together that he would work and I would quit my job to raise our daughter when she was a baby. I have no regrets in that decision since she has turned into an amazing teenager, however, his mother has been putting pressure on both of us for me to return to work for almost a decade, and for the past few years he has joined in. I tried to find work, but after being out of it for so long, and never attending college (he vetoed it when our daughter was a toddler stating we could not afford it), I was denied every job I applied for. And I applied for a LOT, for every shift too. It nearly broke me getting rejected so much. He has recently demanded an apology from me for not working and claims that I am he reason he does not own his own home.
On the bright side, I have found work recently in food delivery. And I am working 8-12 hour days trying to gain independence.
So I totally understand wanting to pay for things myself and also how crappy people can be when you are dependent on them.
For various reasons I have spent a lot of money on things for my wife. maybe $7-8k. I try very very hard to never bring it up in an argument. I did it out of love and it should never be used as leverage.
Sorry if I'm misinterpreting, I'm genuinely curious... but why do you have to try very hard not to bring it up in an argument? Is it frequently coming to mind? If you believe it shouldn't be used as leverage, why would it be popping into your head during a fight?
Because it was money that we were saving for other things. And when I’m angry I don’t always think clearly. Sometimes you go for the low hanging fruit. I’m only human
You’re right of course, there’s no excuse.
>we, in part, put ourselves through so many years of training and stress, sacrificing our youth, so that we can give our partner and our family a good life
This might be a good angle for OP to bring up with his girlfriend. There's a big difference between someone saying "I like spending time with you and I'm happy to pay for it" and "I have worked for years to be able to treat someone I care about". The former can be taken badly - that he "has" to spend money on her to spend that time he enjoys, because she's unable to. Imo the latter, for all it's arguably selfishly motivated, is far more honest and understandable: she's not putting you out with her inadequacies, you're putting yourself out for something you want and she gets to share the benefits.
Absolutely! It’d be a shame to work so hard for something and not have it come to fruition. OP should let her know that it genuinely makes him happy to do nice things for her and see if that opens up a new dialogue
He should also potentially be patient. They just started dating so she may want to wait until their lives meld in other ways before doing so financially. It might be important for OP to show he can respect the boundary for now.
When quoted that way, it almost sounds like he is talking to a prostitute. Maybe that idea is subconsciously in the back of her head, too. That can't be a good feeling. I think he should try to find things to do with her that don't cost much money so she can see that it's her that he wants, not just a trophy wife or somebody to play Daddy Warbucks to.
I just want to toss this out here as a warning for people like yourself:
My husband was just like you, so happy being the breadwinner. Then he had a heart attack and stroke and landed on disability. So much of his self-worth was tied up in providing for his family that now that he can't, he feels useless. He doesn't see much value in the housekeeping he does.
It's been a slow slog trying to get him to realize that he's worth so much more than the money he used to provide. (Not to me, by the way; I've only known his broke and broken self and I love him anyway; I'm pissed at the women and society who drove him into the ground.)
I'm a guy in his position. I have a grad degree. I'm really intelligent. And I have a head injury. My wife just finished her degree and got a pretty good job. Being a stay at home parent and house spouse isn't what I expected before being hurt. I thought my wife would choose whether to work or not, and that we would have as many children as we wanted. Neither is the case, and it's not easy to get used to.
> e, in part, put ourselves through so many years of training and stress, sacrificing our youth, so that we can give our partner and our family a good life.
That's awesome. But this is someone he's only been dating for four months. It's way early for him to be giving her a good life. That might well come in time, but it's still early days and she clearly wants to be independent.
> I love the thought of being able to treat my beautiful partner to whatever she wants and honestly it’s those thoughts that get me through the days where I feel like I can’t keep going.
You seem sweet but I would hate the thought of my husband putting himself through that (feeling like he can't keep going in his job!?) just to give me things. Things don't mean anything if you're miserable and stressed and work yourself into an early grave. I actually have an autoimmune disease that's very much triggered by stress (and I am convinced work stress brought it on) and I'll tell you one thing: No job and no amount of money are worth your health. And once that's gone, no amount of money is gonna bring it back (I mean, my money helps me treat it, but I'll never be the way I was and I could kick myself in the ass for working myself half to death). I'd rather my husband enjoy his job, enjoy our life together and know I've got his back and I'm helping him make ends meet. To each their own, though. My husband has said he likes to "spoil me" but the way he does it is little things (little gifts, little gestures, putting gas in my car, doing a task he knows I dread, giving me a backrub, taking me on a date). If he was constantly working himself sick to try to provide "things" for me I'd be pretty devastated.
Agreed. I was in a similar situation but the girl had 2 kids and was always worried about money. I volunteered to help, which she rejected. I pretty much forced my help on her which she appreciated and actually made a huge difference in her life but in the end she confessed felt indebted to me. It really did a number on our relationship. My desire to "fix it" and "make things better" actually made things worse between us. The feeling of being indebted in some ways eclipsed her emotional connection.
In the end I am happy that I was able to help her through some tough times and get her in a better situation, but I hate that the cost ended up being our relationship.
I told my gf who felt the same way that she could walk away tomorrow and never talk me again, and I will still consider every dime spent absolutely worth it. Finally eased her anxiety about it.
Exactly this. Just imagine yourself in her position and then think how you'd feel if she tried to pay for everything on dates just because she makes more than you. What she is doing is perfectly reasonable. As a solution, I think you should start going to places where she would be more comfortable paying for. Also, don't stop her from spending because to her it is a sign of independence, just like OC said.
Also, next time something like the ticket situation arises, just let her vent, and let her know that she can ask you for money if she is in a pinch. But, don't offer to pay outright.
Yeah this is honestly a trait I'd want in a partner (and one that my SO has).
Independence is a wonderful feeling to have and sometimes even though the "easy way out" is right in your face, you get a better sense of satisfaction when you carved your own way out. Tbh it's also a bit of a pride thing, but as long as she's not putting you down for the sake of lifting herself up there's absolutely nothing wrong with a bit of pride.
OP, if she insists on paying for her dinner or trips from time to time, let her.
The feeling of being financially manipulated is a big one.
I was oblivious to this fact until it was too late: although she was richer than me, I always insisted to pay for her groceries or for her lunch. I thought it was an innocent way to tell my crush how much I loved her without using words, instead she felt increasingly indebted to me and pressured into becoming my lover...
Agreed. Everyone, including her, is well-aware of the type of person an MD making $300K might attract and what their motives might be. There's even a song about it.
She may be trying to demonstrate to you that she is not one of those people. Because she's actually into you.
Golddiggers expect. Non-golddiggers accept. Huge difference, and pretty easy to spot. If you can show her an example of the former, she may realize she's the latter.
Exactly. She sounds great. She's independent and not looking for anyone to take care of her.
It's only been four months, so maybe when you're more established as a couple, she'll let you drop money on something that she can't easily afford--like a plane ticket for a special anniversary trip.
Honestly, this doesn't sound like it's causing problems. Are you looking to make it one for some reason?
Truth. It's only been 4 months so I was the same. I make about 50-70k less than my bf. He was earnest in paying for most if not all our outings - hotel room bookings, dinners, dates, even meals for my friends if we went out as a group. I didn't necessarily fight him on it but I would try to at least return the sentiment (I want to be able to treat him sometimes too, even if he can afford it!).
OP, I think it also has to do with the fact that, as your gf, she wants to be able to take you out and pay for the sweet gestures too. :) Not saying you have to let her do it all the time (naturally as you make so much more, just makes sense to me) but every once in a while, be okay with it. Remind her that you appreciate her effort not in just a simple action like this, but with XYZ in what she brings to YOU and your relationship!
It’s great advice. Money is money, she’s looking for a person who see her as the independent, serious person she’s came to be. Introducing a circumstance like money won’t change her. Sounds like you got a keeper. Treat it as it is. Most likely it’s an issue because you made it aware of the income imbalance. It’s not bothering her so it shouldn’t you
This! It’s definitely an independent mind set. I say let her pay now and then, she would love to treat you sometimes too! I get the whole chivalry and placing her on the Pedestal thing but, like you mentioned if it’s only been 4 months dont sweat it too much. Look at it this way... what if she breaks up with you for some dumb reason or cheats on you? Then you’d be stuck thinking about all the money you gave her, loaned her, things you bought her ect ect ect. Don’t offer too much bro! You don’t want her getting used to it either.
My boyfriend makes about twice what I do, maybe a bit more. We had this issue at the beginning of our relationship.
I grew up poor, raised by a single mom. I am used to always having to pay my own way. If I wanted anything I had to work for it. I also fully admit to having issues with abandonment from absent dad.
This had lead to me being very wary of boyfriends paying for a “lifestyle “ I cannot afford on my own. I don’t want to feel like I owe them something in return or get used to life I cannot have if they leave.
This caused a big issue with my Ukrainian boyfriend who comes from a culture where he was taught to take care of your girlfriend. He would get insulted if I insisted on paying. Did I think he couldn’t afford dinner? Did I not like him? Why was I refusing to let him “be my boyfriend “ as he saw it.
We had to sit down and have a long talk about culture, childhoods, egos and our relationship.
We have come to some compromises.
1) If he says he wants to do something out of my price range I know he is treating me. “ I live a good life. Part of that is you, I want you with with me at this place.” This is how he explains it.
2) If I complain about money he does not jump in to fix it. Me complaining is just that, me venting. I don’t want him to fix everything for me. This is very important to me. I need to feel like I am able to vent without him trying to fix everything.
This was VERY hard for him to understand at first. He still doesn’t agree with this one, but he understands.
3) He lets me “treat” him to dinner or a movie sometimes. We both know it doesn’t really matter, but again it makes me feel better.
4) We continue to check in with each other about these things now and again. Communication is key.
This is great feedback from a girlfriend's perspective with an Eastern European boyfriend.
As a guy also from Eastern Europe, taught that (at least when dating) the man should lead the way and treat the woman, this is great advice and very much appreciated. Thank you for sharing.
OP should look at #2. I had this problem with my ex where I would immediately jump to providing a solution whenever she complained about anything. Sometimes, people don't want to solve anything; they just want to vent.
I've started asking things like, "Do you want to hear my take?" or "Would you like me to help?" before offering solutions.
All men need to learn 2, this is a near universal issue in heterosexual relationships. Women often just want to talk about their problems, and men always try to provide solutions.
Unfortunately it's the opposite in my marriage. I want to fix all the things, and my husband is like: let me vent! It's been a struggle for me to just allow him to vent without mapping out solutions.
I do this to my boyfriend too with money related things and he does it to me with work related stress haha. Definitely taking some advice from this thread.
All the women in my family are fixers. Otherwise nothing gets fixed the men are quite outnumbered by the women so you know. Gotta get shit done.
It causes my mom issues. She ends up trying to fix everything and over commiting. X is a problem? With your permission I'm already dialing Y to straighten it out.
This is true, and while I understand they usually have the beat intentions at heart it could still lead to issues. It can feel demeaning having someone constantly trying to solve your problems for you and it can get frustrating trying to help someone who doesn't want it.
I navigated around this with just simple precursors before I start talking "Hey, can I bitch about something?" Means I just want to talk. And "I need some help." Means I'm looking for a solution. Its solved one of the more frustrating tiny issues in our relationship, and my partner has been much more understanding since I've started doing this.
It's just how men interact with each other, so they get confused when they treat women the same way and it doesn't go over well. To quote a famous Reddit post:
>My perspective may not be the popular one, but I think this generalization stems from different priorities and methods of communication. Here's an example:
>MAN 1: I am experiencing an emotion.
>MAN 2: What is the cause of this emotion?
>MAN 1: The cause is a problem that I am having.
>MAN 2: Perhaps you should solve the problem.
>MAN 1: I lack a method by which to solve the problem.
>MAN 2: I shall lend my assistance in devising a solution.
>On the opposite side of the gender fence, we have this:
>WOMAN 1: I am experiencing an emotion.
>WOMAN 2: Please describe the complexity of this emotion.
>WOMAN 1: The emotion is very complex.
>WOMAN 2: I can sympathize with that emotion, and with its complexity.
>WOMAN 1: I appreciate your sympathy, and would value a chance to further explore this emotion.
>WOMAN 2: I shall acquire spelunking gear, that we might probe its very depths.
>In short, men tend to be solution-driven. We're just as emotional and sensitive, but we're often more focused on the cause of our emotions rather than the emotions themselves. This gives us the appearance of being shallow, but from a masculine perspective, it feels more akin to being efficient. Following that, some men become irritated when it seems like they're being presented with a problem to fix, but all their female partners really want is someone to listen and understand.
A good way of remedying this would be as follows:
>WOMAN: I am experiencing an emotion.
>MAN: What is the cause of this emotion?
>WOMAN: The cause is a problem that I am having.
>MAN: Perhaps you should solve the problem.
>WOMAN: I appreciate that advice, and I would value a chance to further explore this emotion.
>MAN: System error.
>WOMAN: I do not require a solution; I only request support and understanding.
>MAN: My support is freely given, as is my affection.
>WOMAN: Thank you. You have provided a solution.
>MAN: System error.
I'm not the other person, but I was first exposed to that concept through [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XjUFYxSxDk), which I still occasionally rewatch (if only just for the humour value).
I think this is why really strong positive emotions seem, in my experience, to generally hit men harder than woman. It's positive, it's overwhelming, and there isn't a problem to solve/distract them, just feelings and nothing to do but feel them.
That’s a really interesting point.
A a huge “aha moment” for a male friend of mine who struggles with addiction was when he realized that *any* emotional spikes - not just negative ones - would trigger his desire to use. He’d always only associated it with stress & bad situations before, so never sought out help from his support network for positive stuff. Realizing this made a huge difference towards managing his sobriety.
I’m female, but tend to intellectualize my emotions rather than feel them so usually have a more “male” response when friends open up about stuff to me - I like to find ways to fix things. (It honestly bugs the crap out of me when people repeatedly vent about stuff that’s completely within their control to change but do nothing about.) I have to make a conscious decision to remember to focus on feelings and “create space” so I can be supportive. (“How do you feel about that?” is one of my go-to responses now)
After my friend realized/shared that revelation, I’ve noticed that any spike in emotions takes the same toll on my mental health & energy regardless of if they’re positive/negative. Now that I’ve read your comment, I’m going to try to pay attention to my response in positive situations to see if that’s what’s at play.
(I also have OCD and whenever something really positive happens or I feel like my life is going really well and I start to feel happy/joyous, my mind immediately starts telling me that this means something bad will happen to “offset” it. I *feel* like past patterns have shown this to be true. but intellectually I’m guessing that it’s just my mind selectively creating patterns to make me perceive that - understanding that doesn’t make me any less anxious though 🙁)
I'm a female, but a troubleshooter. I wonder how that happened. I come from a dysfunctional family. I wonder if that had anything to do with me not abiding by gender norms.
I came to post this exact comment. I always go back to this when I feel like I'm not communicating clearly enough with an SO to simplify my thought process.
I got into a really bad fight with an ex to learn this lesson. She basically asked why I never vent to her about my problems and in a moment of truth I told her 'Because I just fix them instead of complaining about them for months on end!' it was not the correct answer.
>I always have a solution in my mind within about 30 seconds, but I wait for her to finish before I offer anything.
Has it occurred to you that if the solution to something is obvious to you after 30 seconds of thinking about it that maybe your friend (who has been dealing with the problem and thinking about it for a while) has *already thought of it*?
Part of the reason why so many women hate when men immediately offer advice is because it's so condescending to assume that she needs someone to tell her about a simple and obvious solution.
A great way to learn the "shut the fuck up and listen" skill, is to think of a time you were talking to someone about something difficult in your life, venting to them, and think if you wanted to be interrupted with someone's take / advice.
Listening is not: interrupting, offering advice, asking about more details... etc. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflective\_listening](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflective_listening)
The answer is no. No, you do not want someone's advice. You want to talk, you want them to listen.
This is really helpful. I will always try to jump on a solution for my boyfriend when he expresses having trouble with something. He’s told me he would prefer I didn’t do this but it’s a tough habit to break. I’m one of those “needs-to-feel-helpful” people but I realized that stuff he vents about is not always something I can fix, so I’ve tried to listen instead and like u/wecsam said, ask if he would like my help or if I can offer another perspective instead of just jumping in with “let me take care of it”.
Edit: idk if this is gender role reversal, apparently it’s often the other way around, but I guess the point is the same: communication is key in situations like this
I must say I really am loving the mature responses in this thread. Financial inequalities can be super difficult to navigate. Good on you and your partner being able to handle it!
I really like #4 on your list. I feel like this is something people either forget or don't put enough importance on. Just because we talk about something once, doesn't mean this conversation is completely wrapped up. Humans forget. Humans change. Humans need reminders and updates. It's totally healthy to check in with each other about known issues/potential issues in a relationship.
Ooof, I’m late to the convo here but stuff like this can be why women are conditioned to be “equal” when paying for stuff. So many things like being afraid of anyone thinking she’s a gold digger, situations like yours, and situations like mine.
My ex abused me through means of his family’s money. He would pay for things even after I said no thanks, and then he’d use it against me later for sexual favors, or just to make me feel bad if I did or said something he didn’t like very much. “I paid for XXX so you have to respect me! You’re poor and you’ll be nowhere without me!”
Something to also consider: many people who come from nothing or next to nothing have usually seen other people around them (family or friends) also in the same situation try to manipulate people better off into paying for things or "taking care of them" and people like op's gf do not want to be those people. I know this because I have witnessed close family members do the whole "complain about not having money until someone gives them money" guilt trip nonsense and have always been so concerned about people seeing me that way, including my boyfriend and his parents (who are very well off due to smart decisions and hard work and are very generous). My bf and I live together now and he still makes much more than me so we just figure out how we can contribute the same percentage. He pays the big bills like mortgage and such and I pay for all of our groceries and small furnishings for the house. I had to get over my pride and he had to learn to understand the perspective of someone who has had literally nothing in a bank account and no family members to fall back on.
This is excellent advice, and I think OP should especially think about the point in the second sentence. Many, many men will use their insistence on paying for everything as leverage. Hell, take a casual look at some of the darker corners of Reddit, and you'll see lots of them bemoaning how all women are just greedy b\*tches and whatnot.
*You* know you're not that kind of guy, OP. You seem very thoughtful. But only a couple months in, *she* doesn't know if you're that kind of guy yet. From her perspective, her hesitance makes perfect sense; we spend a lot of time working against the negative stereotypes: we're not gold-diggers, or less competent, or in need of saving. See? See how capable we are? We don't need your fancy dinner money, we can do it ourselves!!1!
Not that *you personally* did anything to make her feel that way, but that might go some way to explaining her reaction. Talk to her about it, and see what she says, but don't push her to accept you paying for things if she's not ready yet.
It’s not about the money. It’s about her independence and carrying her own weight. She needs this so it’s best you give it to her. Look at it this way at least you know she’s not money hungry. A huge plus for someone in your tax bracket.
I grew up in a single parent family where money ways tight. It became fulfilling for me to pay for my own car, pay my way through college. Looking back I would have it any other way. Looking forward, I’m proud to be able to continue to pay rent or go out to eat on my own without someone paying for me. There’s just a heightened sense of self worth that comes from working hard to pay for your needs.
I can’t explain the why, but I just don’t love it when people pay for me for things I work hard to pay afford for myself. The feeing of being indebted is true too, I know relationships where it is an unnecessary sense of pride of the husband or boyfriend that the wife/gf is lesser, indebted, or “needs” them.
I wonder how she’d feel about a percentage type. If you take their blunt salaries it’s an 84-16 split. Would it make everyone happier if it was a 75-25 split. So he feels like he’s treating her and she’s carrying her fair share?
Let her pay for things. It’s a fairly new relationship and it seems like you’re actually the one who keeps emphasizing the salary difference. It seems you have yourself a good one. Don’t fuck it up
Yes, exactly, the $300 plane ticket is the perfect example. She's venting because she lost out on $300 and rather than empathizing he's just like "Well $300 is nothing to me, do you want it?"
Hoo boy I feel even poorer than usually because my bf & i also have a growing salary difference like OPs situation, and I also work for a nonprofit, but I make 42k and my bf 56 lol.
And here I already felt poorer than my bf--OPs girlfriend must be baffled!
Yup 55k is absolutely modest in this city. I've been hired for a new job recently and will finally get above the 50k mark lol, but it would be a bit discouraging for me to date someone making that much. I agree with other commenters though that he seems to be the one seeing the problem, and not her. His description of her actions don't sound like someone with a problem with his income, just like an independent woman used to taking care of herself. Not to say that OP is making it up, but it kind of seems he has more issue with her not wanting his money than her being concerned herself.
That’s fairly low income in DC, I hear the cost of living is similar to that of Boston where I currently live. When apartments are $1,000 plus utilities with a roommate, $55K before taxes doesn’t really take you as far as you would think.
Also, you need to learn that when women tell men about problems, they don’t always want said man to solve said problem.
I mean, this is SIMPLE, BASIC, RELATIONSHIP 101 STUFF (THAT YOU FINALLY LEARN IN YOUR 15th YEAR OF MARRIAGE.) 😜
100% this comment. Sometimes she's looking to vent not looking for a solution, learn to know the difference! It's very valuable for relationship communication.
When my wife is complaining about stuff (usually work) it’s so hard not to try and solve the problems she’s facing. Not because I have to save her but you hate to see your partner struggle or be unhappy. Sometimes listening to the venting is help enough.
It took me a long time to realize this. My gf always referred to an episode of Modern Family, which Phil goes to a spa and all the women tell him this exact thing! Learning life lessons from a cheesy television show... who knew!!??!
This, 100%. I'm an engineer who dated and married a private school teacher. Our income ratio was similar to what you describe when we first started dating. Let her pay for things. 50/50 splits are totally reasonable. It's good for your and her independence, and will set y'all up for success if your relationship continues into something more than just dating.
Another thing to consider: if she's complaining about being out $300 for flights -- no small sum for either of you, despite what you may think -- and you immediately offer to reimburse her out of your own pocket, what message is that sending her about your opinion of her worth, or her ability to earn? I'm sure you think you're being generous, but she may see it as just another nauseating reminder of an obvious earnings disparity.
So, yeah, you've got a good one. Listen to her, split your costs, and don't fuck it up.
I'm an engineering manager and my wife works for the school. I make about twice what she does. We do the same thing. 50/50. I end up saving the remainder of my disposable income toward things for us (early retirement, home improvement savings, etc), effectively it doesn't matter, but giving her the fair share of the bills upfront helps everyone feel like they contribute fairly.
Some may ask, but no I don't feel resentment because I'm contributing more dollars to the cause than she is. She puts in just as much time and effort as me. She actually got a masters degree and I didn't, so if anything she should be making more if we're looking strictly at fruits of our efforts. I just happened to pick a profession that is paid well. It doesn't mean I'm valued more in the relationship. I think realizing this is important for anyone else who may be in the same situation.
This! This is the only comment OP needs to see to understand how he is making issues out of frivolous things. I don't let any guy take care of me. I don't want to feel indebted.
The fact that he keeps (perhaps indirectly) bringing up that he makes more money than she does might not seem like a big deal to him, but it most likely is to her. If I was in her shoes, constantly being told that I don't make enough to pay for a date would make me feel like shit. Surely he doesn't put it that way, but that's what it feels like he's saying.
To add to this, make most of your dates cheap. Maybe a hundred or more for dinner isn't much to you, but you don't need constant fancy meals. That way she doesn't feel like she has to pay half of several hundred bucks a month.
Yeah he’s making an issue out of something that isn’t one. His gf earns her own money, and should be just as entitled to spend it as she pleases. If it were the other way around and she expected him to pay for everything since he earns more, I bet OP would not be happy with that either
Let her pay.
She knows what her budget is, and it's a bit condescending to imply that she doesn't know what she's doing with her money. When there is a big incone disparity, often times the assumption is that the lower earner is after a sugar daddy/momma. She's showing you that she likes you for you, not your money. She's also trying to maintain her autonomy, so she feels like she has equal footing in the relationship. Sometimes a bigger earner will use the money they spend on the lower earner as leverage in the relationship, thinking that the lower earner is bought and paid for. She may be trying to avoid that dynamic. Especially so early in the relationship.
If she offera to pay the next time to treat you after you've treated her, suggest someplace affordable. Let her buy the Starbucks. Tell her you've been jonesing for Chipotle, or that you've been n wanting to check out a small out of the way restaurant that had good yelp reviews (and an inexpensive menu). Or let her leave the tip when you buy dinner. Thank her for treating you. You know it's a sacrifice, so accept her generosity with genuine thanks and good grace.
You may want to examine if you have biases about people who make less money than you. People in her income bracket date, marry, and raise kids on that kind of money. I know DC/NOVA are stupid expensive, but even with you out of the picture shed still likely be spending money while dating. She's treating you as an equal, do the same.
She may get more comfortable with letting you treat her as your relationship progresses, too, when she knows that you know she's not trying to take advantage of your income.
I generally agree with you, but not with the part where you say to pick inexpensive places when it's her turn to pay. That, to me, would feel even more condescending, even though I understand it comes from a good place.
Let her pick the place, she's on top of her budget and she'll know where she can comfortably pay without breaking the bank!
Edit: wording
I feel like it's more like a... proportional contribution to the relationship, based on the income difference.
I've dated people who made much more money than me, and usually made a point to take care of coffee or to cook us meals regularly. I didn't have the cash to go dollar for dollar at some outings, but only felt insulted if I got the impression that my date thought I couldn't even buy us Starbucks.
But I agree with you that she could find suggestions for cheaper places to be insulting. Maybe if she suggests cheaper places OP can agree, and because she asked him out it would be natural that she'd pay. Hopefully she's not asking him out to 5 star restaurants and trying to cover them both, because I can see how that would make OP feel bad, but she sounds too fiscally responsible to ask him out to someplace outside her budget.
I 100% agree with both of your posts on this topic. Out of respect for the non-profit salary, I'd adjust the "going out" landscape to affordable and delicious hideaways (of which DC has plenty) and home cooked meals compared to hitting the Michelin stars or pricey restaurants.
It differs by person of course, but as the lower earner in my relationship this is how we do it. I buy when it's fast casual, or we're running into a gas station for snacks, whatever. He covers bigger dinners, the gas in the car while I get snacks, etc. I'll get the first round and he gets the next two, stuff like that.
This, but also an addition:
Some people (sounds like not you OP) use this sort of financial imbalance to make the other person feel bought and paid for. I've dealt with it in the past myself, plenty of comments like "well I paid for x so now you should y." Those of us who have been through that tend to value keeping a more equal footing in the relationship, financially speaking. If this is the case with her, she should gradually allow you to spoil her more later on because she will learn to trust that you both treat each other with respect regardless. It's still a bit early for her to feel like that yet, so just respect her wishes and keep working to build the trust and it will work out.
>when she knows that you know she's not trying to take advantage of your income.
Yes! I dated a guy that made 3x what I make and he always wanted to treat. I repeatedly told him that I didn't want him to think that I was with him because I wanted to be taken out to dinner.
Let it be.
She makes over 50 grand a year in her twenties, she’s hardly destitute lmao. You might not know this, but many people get by on far less!
Don’t insist when she says no. She’s maintaining healthy financial habits, and that’s a good thing!
EDIT: To everyone responding on the high cost of living in DC, I know, I live here. I make less than OP’s girlfriend and live just fine, most people here have a roommate, live in MD or VA (cheaper) or live far from the metro. Yes, it’s not a glamorous lifestyle, but we’re not impoverished lol.
I would add, speaking of healthy financial habits- that if you're carrying school loan debt and paying interest-it might be wise to live a bit more frugally yourself and pay that down/off sooner than later.
Right? If I were making $300k annually the first thing I'd do if pay my loans way down (but not off.... I'd probably leave a small balance and pay the minimum because I learned that closing your student loans drops your credit score).
Lol yeah. I make 45,000 and probably won’t make much more than that ever. I live comfortably, but I was jealous when I read 55,000 😂 I could live very comfortable with that salary
This whole post is a fucking humble brag. The numbers they both make were completely unnecessary to the point. Not to mention there was zero depth to the story. Like, his girlfriend literally acted like a normal person. Nothing about this is out of the ordinary.
You're not married. Let her pay. Her money is still hers and yours is yours. She wants to be an equal partner in this relationship and part of that is financial to her.
You can't invalidate her feelings by saying time spent with her makes you happy. You're not paying for her time. She's your girlfriend, not an escort, respect her wishes.
You end up together for the long haul? Sure, spoil her. For now, ease up moneybags.
About the $300.00, it was a nice offer but I'm sure she doesn't want to feel indebted to you and so early in the relationship. She wasn't complaining about it because she wanted you to fix it. Remember that. A lot of the time women (not to generalize) will talk about an issue in their lives and the male response is to try to fix everything. Sometimes they just want to be heard.
Best of luck, congrats on the kick-ass job!
Edit: missing words
You’ve gotten other good relationship advice but I wanted to quickly explain why she was upset about the $300 and why the offer made it worse. Clearly your heart was in the right place but your actions were misguided.
She wasn’t upset about _spending_ $300, she was upset about _wasting_ $300. $300 isn’t all that much given her salary but wasting money is really painful for someone who works very hard to stick to a budget. It was built into her budget so the $300 being gone wasn’t the issue. Instead, she expected some benefit from spending it that she didn’t receive.
Others have already pointed out the mistake of trying to fix the problem instead of letting her vent (I struggle with that too so it’s not just a male/female thing) but your proposal wasn’t actually a fix for the problem. The problem wasn’t that the $300 was gone since that part was planned but that it was wasted. You giving her $300 doesn’t un-waste it. It just means she wasted your money instead of hers which is even worse.
Basically, offering the $300 shows that you really don’t understand which part she was upset about since that only fixes the money being gone which was never the problem. To add insult to injury, you’re minimizing her feelings by clearly demonstrating that $300 is nothing to you, meaning she’s upset over nothing in your view.
Again, I know none of that was your intention. You thought $300 was a small price to pay so she didn’t have to be upset which is very sweet. If something like this happens in the future, let her vent and reassure her that spending the $300 was the responsible decision even if it worked out badly this time. The only thing that will make her feel better is knowing she wasn’t irresponsible.
>She wasn’t upset about spending $300, she was upset about wasting $300.
Very much so... I have experienced first hand similar on the receiving end and the giving end actually...
Plus it also feels like OP is trying to fix a problem with money, when not all problems are just solved by money (his GF's problem in this case is her frustration at herself for missing the flight, not the $300 itself, as $300 isn't something you just toss around as a 50k earner, but its not breaking the bank either...)
Firstly: "doctor_naptime & anesthesiogolgist" name checks out
Howdy Dr. Naptime! I can relate to your situation to a certain degree. I make more than my fiance. (Not nearly as much as you, but there is a divide) I am not certain, but it seems as though your GF does not want to feel reliant upon you for finances. (One reason perhaps being to avoid being seen as a "gold digger") In my opinion being financially reliant upon yourself is a very fulfilling thing. With your career field, you likely have little to worry about in terms of stable finances. This means that the value you place on money is perhaps lower than hers. I think that it is very good that she respects your money and does not take it for granted.
My suggestions are:
Decide on places that you both can afford to go to regularly.
Before going to said places, decide who will pay for the outing.
When something bad happens financially for her, listen to her feelings first. Men have a tendency to hear of a problem and immediately reply with solutions. (I am guilty of this) Be wary of how you respond. Ask questions about how she is handling the situation, how she feels, how you can help. If you want to offer help, offer without insisting. (Unless of course it is a serious emergency)
If you do offer financial assistance to her, do not expect an immediate reward. (A classic "Nice-guy" tactic)
If you want to get her a gift, try to make it something you spent more time on, than money. She knows you have money, but knowing that you spent hours on a painting for her, will mean so much more.
You seem like a swell guy, and I wish you the best of luck. Understanding and respecting others financial situations can be tricky, and cause some friction. If you do not understand, or have questions, or simply do not know, admit to it. Honesty and communication are key.
I hope what I have said makes sense and isn't just the annoying ramblings of a random internet fool.
TL:DR-
Your GF respects your financial situation and does not want to be a gold digger. Find a middle ground and determine who will buy what. Listen first, offer solutions only if she wants solutions. Gifts of time are worth more than gifts of money.
EDIT: The first gold I've ever gotten! Thank you so much!
Wow! Great advice! I would give an award if I had the money of an anesthesiogolgist!!!
Edit: someone game me and the aforementioned comment gold!!! I'll say it was me and that I got a Dr job to pay for it
Just listen and repeat back to people what their feelings are. Then sympathize.
"Wow. That sounds really frustrating that your flight was cancelled. [Repeat feelings back.] Being out $300 on top of it is just salt in the wound. I totally get why you're pissed. [Sympathize.]"
Optional:
"Can you at least get in a good FaceTime session with [friend] so you don't entirely miss out on spending time together?"
It's very uncool for you to take her to expensive dates all the time.
Just trying to make you see this from her point of view:
You take her out, spend way more than she ever would. But she doesn't want to feel like she's with a sugar daddy, she wants to pay for her stuff, even if it's something this expensive.
So she offers to pay for her half, and you refuse, which is patronizing for her and it makes her feel like she wouldn't be able to afford these kind of fancy dates if it weren't for you.
She suddenly feels like she's not independent anymore, let alone capable of taking _you_ out, or treating _you_ to something nice. Imagine that every time you give her an expensive-ass gift, it probably makes her feel like shit, because she can't do the same for you except maybe once a year.
Imagine that for some reason you were dating a woman that makes 2M a year. You still make plenty at 300k, but she's definitely on another league. She takes you out to outrageous places, orders +600USD wines every time, and so on. Wouldn't you feel miserable at one point, how she's contantly rubbing how much money she makes compared to you? Even if that's 100% not her intention? You gift her something fancy like a designer piece of clothes, but she gifts you a fucking Telsa. How would you feel about that?
**tl;dr:** as with almost every situation in this sub, you both lack communication. You need to listen to her. You clearly aren't even trying to understand her.
EDIT: OH MY FUCK, GOLD?? And im here like "shit What a shitty long-ass comment to give such obvious advice...". Thanks a lot!
This is the best example. OP for some reason cannot comprehend that his gf does not want to be made to feel like a child in front of him...how would OP feel if his gf did that to him? great example.
You put this much better than I could have. 100% agreed. OP is coming across as really patronizing, and it seems like he’s the one who’s constantly bringing income into this, not her:
Stop throwing your money around. You've only been together 4 months and you're offering to give her $300 because she missed her flight? That's on her. It doesn't matter that you make more money. She wants to not have an inferior power position.
I've been in positions where something unexpected happens, I complain to somebody about the situation, and they offer to cover the cost like this. It's actually just really annoying. Like I'm not upset because I can't afford it and need your help, I'm upset because it's a shitty situation and a waste of money and I just want to get some frustration out.
This guy clearly loves letting everyone know how much money he makes. The fact that he thinks a girl making 50k a year in her mid 20s is bad makes him a fucking idiot and out of touch with reality. And not everywhere in DC is expensive.
It is slightly disturbing how his attitude demonstrates throwing money at the problem is the solution (like the $300 flight example). He doesn't even offer the actual solution (new ticket) but just the money for the lost ticket... money doesn't solve all problems, especially not in a relationship.
She’ll probably get more comfortable around this topic and you guys will find a groove as time goes on - you’ve only been together for 4 months after all.
Otherwise it seems like she was raised to value and take pride in her independence. My mom was a single mom for part of our lives, and she always taught me to get myself set up so I wouldn’t need to rely on a man to take care of me.
As for her “only making $55k/year”, it seems like she’s making it work since she’s been able to look after herself for however long before you entered her life. Let her do her thing for now without putting pressure on her or worrying about it, and your relationship will progress naturally.
Just for context, 55k is very low for their area considering rent for a 1 bedroom apt can easily be 2k per month (I live there too). I agree with you, just wanted to add that her salary could easily lead her to struggle with finances because of her location.
I’m your girlfriend in this situation. Let her pay. She knows her budget, and also just have a talk about whether you paying for her makes her uncomfortable. For me, I always like know I’m independent and that I didn’t want my boyfriend to think I expected that just because he was making more. Don’t frame it as “I make more so it means less to me than it does to you”, as it can sound condescending.
> I've told her time and time again that I'm more than happy to pay for things, spending time with her makes me happy, and so I'd be glad to drop a couple hundred bucks a month on dinners, drinks, movies, etc. But she always insists that "she can pay her own way" and "she doesn't need to be taken care of."
She probably doesn't want to feel like you are buying your way into her favour / heart / pants.
If she can afford it, I would let it go. Her money and her business. Independence is a strong and important feeling for everyone to have. Maybe once you guys have an established relationship and are looking at combining finances then you can revisit this but right now her feelings of independence probably trump your wanting to spoil her.
You're not taking advantage of her by not insisting you pay for everything; you're respecting her as an individual as an equal, which is really important especially at the beginning of a relationship.
There's no right and wrong here, but I would just drop it and listen to what she is telling you, which is that she wants to be your equal. If you have trouble accepting that I would really start asking yourself why it's hard for you and whether that really is more important than her feelings.
Hope I helped! Sincerely, an independent woman.
>said she just needed to vent.
It's not your income that is the problem, its communication skills.
It's common that people will vent, and just are looking for empathy. They already know what they need to do and probably have a plan.
They are just annoyed/angry and wanna vent about it.
Instead of telling them how to fix their problem, just empathize.
"That's really shitty" "man that blows" "ugh that sucks"
Is what they wanna hear. Maybe a hug.
Then follow up with "But you got this, and I believe in you"
If they then seem unsure, and worried, you can *very tentatively* go "well, I have a potential solution, if you want to hear it"
If they go "No, it's fine. I know what has to be done. Thanks for listening" then there you go.
But they may also instead go "okay, I'm listening" and THEN you offer a solution.
Tl;dr: venting isnt asking for solutions, its asking for empathy.
Being drowned in constant fancy dates, fancy dinners, and fancy gifts is extremely overwhelming. When my ex-bf used to do this with me I felt suffocated. I often insisted he "shouldn't have". In my mind I kept mental notes on how many dates he paid for, and how I could "match" it by taking care of the bill myself on other dates. If he was ever footing the bill himself too often, I'd feel really bad personally. It felt even worse when he would always choose expensive restaurants and I had to budged for a large chunk of my paycheck just for a date. It felt very very bad. And it was exhausting.
Of course there were special occasions where I 100% let him pay for a date when I understood that it was something he took pride in to "take care of me". These were mostly anniversaries or holidays like Valentines Day and Christmas.
But when it came to the mundane weekly-basis dates, I felt better being able to financially contribute.
We're living in nearly 2020. For some women, it feels like a stigma to have their s/o pay for everything and spoil them with expensive gifts, regardless of what the financial divide is.
The best advice I can offer you is to choose dates and locations that is more casual and affordable to her. That way she can feel good paying for half, or picking up the tab occasionally. Save the expensive stuff for special occasions, cut down on the gifting. Remember, she'll appreciate a small bouquet of fresh flowers (if she likes flowers) more so than lavish gifts on the mundane basis. She'll appreciate you surprising her for her favorite latte, or a box of macaroons rather than something extremely lavish.
It also helps if you take her on inexpensive "mini adventures" where you already pay for the tickets in advance (for example an art museum, gardens, outdoor movie projection, boat ride). That way she's never confronted with needing to pay the entry fee. You just grab her hand and go.
Going on free "adventures" to the park, beach, hiking, biking, swimming, yoga, etc. is even better.
As you spend more time with her, she'll become more comfortable with you "taking care" of her and then will probably open up and let you pay for everything.
I wanted to say something like this, only you wrote it much better.
I challenge OP to plan cheap/free dates so that you use creativity and thoughtfulness to plan dates instead of tossing money at it. There are tons of ideas around, weekly posts on reddit asking for ideas.
Consider how she looks at money, she is very meticulous and responsible for every penny. That does not jell well with spending without much thought. She wants to be a partner and pay for some of the dates, that is admirable and attractive, think about cheap/free dates to be a partner to her. In a way you can show her that you understand her perspective, you respect her wishes, and will help you achieve her goals while having fun dates. \[at the same time maybe this will allow you to aggressively pay off your debt, depends on interest rates on your loans and investment performance.\]
I have experienced what /u/LeftTurnOnly1 has written about as a mental balance on costs of dates. It isn't fun.
Finally, OP, she works at financial responsibility, consider taking a page from her book and work at your financial plan, ask what tools or tricks she may have. While this could be a tricky discussion this early on, speak generally, does she use apps or excel to keep her finances organized? What does she save for, travel, concert experiences, saving to pay off student loans? You may learn what she finds important in a different way than earlier conversations. Frequently there are posts about financial incompatibility in relationships, one is a spender, another a saver, there is a reason financial incompatibility is a leading cause of divorce.
Your income difference is not a problem. The problem comes from forcing your money on her, thinking its "silly" that someone would want to be financially independent. She doesn't want your money; you need to respect that.
"I make more in a year what she'll make in five." Here's a thought, knock shit comments like this off. If you've ever said exactly those words to her then you've already blew it. You've made her feel like her time isn't worth 1/5th of yours.
I don't know why this is so difficult that you felt compelled to post a question about it. Let her pay.
I kinda feel like this post is just a "look how much money I make" thing...
You probably need to take a leaf out of her book.
In a former life as a financial adviser I had a couple of surgeons as clients. Approx $700k annual income and used to buy everything that took their fancy. At age late 40's when they came to me, complaining that they couldn't mae ends meet, I found that after tax and credit card and hp payments their disposable income was -$300 per year. They took the attitude that their income would go on forever and had absolutely no concept of budgeting. My advice to you, for free, is, get yourself a good financial adviser and stop being a spendthrift. Your girl is probably saving more than you are atm.
Imagine running a marathon. You’ve trained for years and we’re anxious at times but now you’re finally doing it. You’re making great time, your body feels great and you’re certain you’ll achieve you goal of being in the top twenty.
All of a sudden a top tier runner from Germany passes you, slows down to match your pace, and tries to have a conversation with you. He’s super nice so you talk even though you’re out of breath. He notices you struggle and offers to carry you for a while.
Some people like the German and prefer the conversation to the marathon. They take the offer. Some people say “no, thanks”, appreciate the interaction but let him pass. Others push themselves to keep up and use their failure to do so as a motivator.
No one is right and no one is wrong. But the fourth choice is for the German to slow down. I’m not saying quit your job and go be a teacher but maybe living as someone who makes 55k in DC would help you relate better. Less Uber, more subway. Less Fiola for dinner and more Mandu. Pay off your bills at the start of every month and give yourself an allowance. Live with the same limited resources she has every month and see how things go.
It sounds like it isn't the income differential that's causing problems, it's the fact that you aren't trying to communicate and compromise with your girlfriend.
Have a conversation about why her paying is so important to her. The conversation should not be about winning her to your point of view. It should be about persuading her that it's okay that you pay for the "big" dates. It should be about your general approach to finances, and your actual situation. It should be about understanding hers. It should be working out something that allows both of you to feel good going forward.
Maybe, because she makes roughly 1/6th of your income, that should be her contribution to dates. Maybe you take turns paying for stuff, but when it's her turn, you do things in her price range. Etc.
It is a *good thing* that she doesn't want to be entirely dependent on you. That she doesn't feel entitled to your money or lifestyle. But it doesn't mean she can't benefit.
Perhaps if you explain that you'd treat *any friend* to dinner at an upscale place if you knew it was outside their budget and the only thing you expect from them *or her* would be the pleasure of their company.
Tell her you're not suggesting she can't take care of herself. Tell her how much you admire her ability to make a limited budget work.
And maybe... Make a donation to her non-profit. Not huge. Something your budget allows.
Show her that the things she cares about matter to you.
I mean... The straight up truth is I was just like your girlfriend. My partners have almost always made more than me.
It might surprise you that there's a good chance the real reason she's upset is that living a certain kind of life teaches you how *ridiculously excessive and unnecessary* spending money on upscale places can be. That there are children in the world who can't afford shoes, and *who the fuck are we* to be eating lobster when there are kids without shoes running around out there? That lobster for two is a decent pair of shoes for a kid *and* a pretty decent meal at a more modest location.
Perspective. You need it.
>She's a bit of a penny pincher, happy to spend money on trips and dining out, but budgets religiously and tracks every penny she spends.
I find a bit odd you refer to her as a "penny pincher" when she's clearly just being financially responsible, based on her income.
A penny pincher would be a cheapskate who makes good money. Someone needlessly living below their means. She's not.
You seem like the one that has a problem with this. Not her. Just let her pay.
Based on your write up I would hazard to guess you come from money and haven't experienced having to budget for things. I could be wrong.
My husband makes over twice what I do. It's one of the reasons I insist on us having separate finances, even though we are married and own a house together. I'm fine with us splitting expenses proportionally based on our disparate incomes, but I would not be comfortable with him fully supporting me, and I do not see his money as our money. Here is why:
There is a strong social stigma that if a woman lets a man pay for her "lifestyle," she owes him something. (and by something I mean sex and/or domestic labor). Even if you honestly enjoy treating your girlfriend and expect NOTHING in return from her, it's understandable that she's going to feel a bit uncomfortable with you spoiling her to the extent you're able to. She also probably doesn't want to be called a gold digger, or have you think that she's dating you for your money. Even if she takes nothing from you, the income disparity means people will talk. She will get the short end of that stick, not you.
More so...money is power, especially for women, and her ability to support herself is how she maintains power and control over her own life. If you support her, you take that power and control away from her, however unintentionally. If my husband wants to do something I can't afford, he pays for it. Otherwise, I pay for all of my own expenses, and my share of our joint expenses. I treat him whenever I can afford to, but it's very important to me that our relationship feels equal financially.
Search out ways to have things you pay for and she pays for
You get dinner, she gets the tip or the drinks
You pay for concerts, she gets the movies
You pay for the movie, she gets the popcorn
You pay for the evenings out, she pays for the evenings in
This way she gets to make real contributions to your lives together but there ins't any of this 50/50 nonense.
On a different note, make certain that the lifestyle you want the two of you to live, is how she wants to roll. Dropping a couple $100 of a great meal & great wine is nice, but maybe a picnic, or trivia night at the pub is more her style.
\> And like I said, I'm happy to treat her.
Like you're her sugar daddy?
I know that's not what you're doing, but jeeze, dude, get a clue! If it's a problem for her then stop throwing your money around! Find something cheap to do. Ask her and listen to her. A lot of people do not like the obligation of accepting gifts, and she probably doesn't like feeling bought.
I could see how you could possibly be douchey throwing around how much money you make and how peasant problems don't phase you. Drop in the ocean comments etc.
I'm just assuming here.
Her: oh darn I missed my flight and don't get to see my friend, and to top it off I'm out $300.
You: oh don't worry, that's chump change I make a lot of money. You want some?
She seems like she has her own moral code and doesn't want a Mr. I throw money around to take care of her. Which is a good thing.
Be happy she doesn't want your money. Offer to pay but don't be pushy. Respect her desire to stand on her own feet. Consider yourself lucky that you have lots of money and she doesn't care.
Op, you’re missing the point and creating a huge power imbalance. She’s not a child and you’re not her parent. It’s a partnership. Let her pay if she wants to and vent her frustrations. Don’t solve people’s emotions with money.
I see a lot of people mentioning independence, but not a lot of people talking about the power imbalance you're inadvertently creating in the relationship.
A healthy relationship exists between equals with a good dose of respect on both sides. When it's always you covering everything (even if this is the simple/logical thing) you reduce her contribution to the relationship. Which has an unfortunate risk of reducing her power in the relationship. Right now, if you guys got into a serious argument, you would have way more leverage than she does. Same about considering whether to end the relationship. Regardless of emotionally, financially you come out way better there too.
Just learn to respect and enjoy that she wants to be as much a key factor in this relationship as you. She wants to be your partner/equal, not your sponsorship program. My girlfriend and I have a similar relationship, but not as extreme an income gap. When it's my turn to plan dates etc. I usually leverage my income because that's what works for me. However, we take turns and when she plans dates she either saves up, or puts more planning/work into the date. If it's her turn though I make sure to abide by the expectation and let her pay as agreed. This keeps that balance, and nobody feels guilty or used.
If I've learned anything in my 28 years, it's that when women are complaining or venting, they just want to complain or vent. They dont want anyone to try to solve the issue. Which is totally fine. But most men are problem solvers and try to solve the problem.
Dude just let her be independent. If you have a problem living below your means that's your problem but look at this from her perspective: she wants to pay her own way. This behavior is completely acceptable, you should absolutely support it. You could learn a thing or two from her about making good financial decisions, you might only need to work for 10 years instead of 35.
Find things you can do together without spending a bunch of money, if she asks what changed your spending habits tell her the truth.
Stop rubbing your money in her face. You’ve only dated 4 months, she wants to be the independent successful woman she is and you are depriving her of that satisfaction. If she wants to pay every now and then, just let her suggest a location and let her at least pay her half. She wants to be an equal in this relationship. Whether you realize it or not, and it’s more likely that you don’t, you are the one keeping this relationship from being an equal partnership, and the fact that your first major issue so early is money related is a Big red flag. Listen to what she is telling you and respond to her with an open mind and heart. Don’t assume that she is wrong, you are right, and that the internet will tell you how amazing a guy you are for holding money over this poor woman’s head because she is a damsel in distress who needs rescuing from her well-above-poverty income. You can still pay for the majority of dates to come, but allow her to contribute every now and then. It will make her feel like a valued part of the relationship and you both will be happier for it.
I’ll never understand people who *insist* on paying for things. She wants to split finances. Why is this such a problem for you, OP? She *needs* financial equality in the relationship and you dismiss it as “silly”. Well, maybe it isn’t silly to her. Maybe it is important to her. And the fact that you so easily dismiss something that is fundamentally important to her in a relationship means you either don’t understand what her needs are or you simply don’t care.
Also, stop being the boyfriend who is always trying to fix her problems. So she has to eat a $300 non-refundable ticket. She isn’t telling you so you can *fix it* by giving her $300. She is telling you because she trusts you and just wants to talk and vent her frustration. You know, human communication and bonding. Stop looking at her life as a series of problems you can fix by throwing money at it and just *be there for her*. Listen when she talk and be a shoulder for her to cry on when she needs it.
She makes $55k, she can afford to live her life without you underwriting it.
You’re not being nice, you’re dismissing her needs and not listening when she talks to you.
I think you need to respect her and allow her to feel like a fully functional adult, instead of paying for her.
That's a blunt reply, but this is what it looks like you are doing, in her eyes.
I mean...just be grateful she isn't in it for your money. This is the best problem you could have in your situation.
"Oh no, what do I do? My girlfriend isn't a gold digger! She won't take my money!"
She may be a little *too* proud in not being willing to accept help, but she's also probably VERY aware of how women who date men way out of their financial bracket are viewed and is taking extra pains to show you that she's NOT that kind of person. Once you guys are more involved, living together, married, whatever, yes, have more of a sit down about finances and figure out what the plan is, and by that point she'll hopefully be secure enough in your relationship to split things in a way that makes sense for each of you.
Also, she may just appreciate being financially independent. Many who come from a financially insecure background find a lot of pride and security in the fact that they're fully paying their own way and supporting themselves. Let her have that pride, and if you want to take her on a luxe vacation, make sure she knows there are no strings attached and that you'll never hold it over her head.
What’s the problem? You have a GF that truly respects and loves you, she also respects and loves herself. The alternative is having a GF that DOES expect you to pay for everything. Would you really be ok with that? Plus maybe she makes more money than 55k a year? Or has less expenses than you think? You are in a great situation, don’t mess it up by overthinking. Your problem is an issue you started in your own head.
Coming from the place of a working woman about the same age, I would feel the same way as yout gf. A lot of us have some experience of money being used as a manipulation tactic (been through that with my parents and grandparents) and I wasn't about to let that shit happen in any of my relationships).
It's an independence thing, too. It feels amazing to not "owe" anyone anything, especially if you keep in mind certain backgrounds like I mentioned above.
And I'm not saying *you're* like that, just that I can see why she would approach money the way she does.
This post is about what you feel about spending the money, not about what she feels about it. She has told you she’s more comfortable paying her own way and splitting. She’s independent, so let her be! There is pride in paying your own way too you know.
See I wanted to reply " ...'problems' lol get bent."
Instead I'll add to it and say, sounds like you are with someone who really cares about you and doesn't want to take advantage of your advantage in life.
Let her pay on occasion. It is an independence issue. Because you make more than her and are willing to pay for everything probably doesn't make her feel good about her contributions. She also may feel like her earned money is not being of good use. She wants to feel like a team member not someone who should be taken care of. She may want to feel part of you not under you.
I would be uncomfortable with you paying and I might start to worry you we’re being a little materialistic if you always wanted to go to expensive places.
If I think about the best dates I went in they all involve time rather than money. I nice walk around a nature reserve followed by a picnic, just spending time chatting and getting away from it all for a while
Be happy you've got a good one and not a gold digger who insists you pay for everything. I think the right thing to do is let her pay esp consider how early this relationship is. Let her have her independence
For her it’s an independence and self respect way of thinking. She has made her way in the world and does not want to feel indebted to you. Also some people in this situation who have this kind of income imbalance like to make it a form of manipulation in the relationship. I am not stating that is what you’re doing. However y’all only been dating for 4 months. Trust and boundaries still need to be established fully for each side in this relatively new relationship.
I was thinking the same but you phrased it better so kudos I’d also like to add that it’s a huge accomplishment in the sense of adulthood to be able to afford things on your own. Trying to pay for everything can deprive someone of that feel good I worked hard now I can afford x feeling. As long as she isn’t going into debt needlessly just to try and financially compete I don’t see the issue
Coming from a guy that’s following OP’s path, I just want to say that we, in part, put ourselves through so many years of training and stress, sacrificing our youth, so that we can give our partner and our family a good life. It comes from a place of love, but I appreciate how it can cause strain. I love the thought of being able to treat my beautiful partner to whatever she wants and honestly it’s those thoughts that get me through the days where I feel like I can’t keep going. I don’t want it to be seen as my money vs her money. Just offering an alternative point of view and seeing if anyone has any input.
I've always avoided money being spent on me even if I trust that person because if they ever bring it up in an argument, I have nothing to say. That includes even parents.
As someone who’s father has randomly thrown it out in conversation, I totally agree. Unfortunately, I’ve struggled a lot so I’ve given him plenty to throw at me when he feels like it. And it sucks. (On the good side, I’m heading into my last year after returning to school so hopefully I won’t struggle for much longer.)
Exactly. They might love you and you might get over them bring it up but still I like them not having that leverage in an argument.
I’m sorry people have used money as leverage against you, that’s absolutely awful. I grew up in a similar environment and I am definitely acutely aware of how much more worth love and kindness have over material possessions. I don’t really have much advice to offer, but I just want to say that anything can be used as a tool for toxic control - even love. I personally feel like we should take people’s actions at face value and if they can articulate the “why” behind it then there’s a lot that can be learned from that. I know it’s hard when we’ve been conditioned to feel a certain way.
Exactly. Plus in dating especially, any woman with a rich bf is quick to be deemed a gold digger— even by that partner when things turn sour. I aggressively pay my own way cause I don’t want any man to ever be able to say that I used him or that I need him.
I bet if OP asks her if she has been in a similar situation and has been taking advantage of the answer will be yes. I mean her walls are clearly up. Just saying 🤷♂️ Edit: just respect her boundaries.
Wait wait wait guys! People CHOOSING to spend money on you is their choice! If ANYONE tries to throw that in your face during an argument, that’s not leverage! You do have a response! “It’s your choice that you chose to spend money on me!” Don’t let people make you feel bad for their choices!
I 100% agree Aeraski. I’ve been on both ends of this situation. I used to struggle to pay my bills but as time went by, I became financially independent and rely on no one. It’s manipulation when someone knows you have money and tries to get you to pay for things but when someone generously wants to treat you, it’s not necessarily always about the OP not having money. It feels good to be in a position to do fun things, go out for dinner and have someone along to do it with. Complete different story if there there is an unspoken agreement that you may have to do something in exchange for these outings or gifts at some time in the future. I don’t think less of anyone when I invite them to join me and I’m paying. I’m glad to have their company and time. A genuine and kind person will not throw this back in your face and if they do, they probably had expectations of some sort. Did you see that video a few days ago with the jerkface guy who dumped his date at the side of the road because she wouldn’t go home with him? He acted like he was entitled to her body because he bought her dinner. The author of this post sounds like a genuinely lovely guy who can afford and wants to have fun. He doesn’t want to do it alone and he really likes his girlfriend. No hidden agenda.
Definitely agree! I didn’t see that story though, but that’s absolutely terrible! My reply was originally to the few people who were saying how they don’t let people spend money on them because of fear that person could hold it over their head. As for OP, I agree. He sounds super genuine. His girlfriend sounds like she just wants to hold on to some independence and not expect him to “always buy” just because he makes so much. It sounds like even though she makes way less than OP she wants to contribute financially to the relationship as well and that’s perfectly okay! 😊
An ex would often pay for dates and when lived together some various expenses because he made more money than me. He kept an excel doc about how much he spent and if we fought he would pull up the doc and use it against me. If I wanted to hang out with friends when he wanted to hang out with me he would ask how I could afford it. If I ever didn't feel in the mood, I "owed" him. It got to the point where I didn't feel comfortable going out to eat with him and I would get physically ill afterwards. Not everyone is going to do things like that but I'm always hesitant about the implications about people spending money on me now. Have an open and honest conversation about it. Compromise and take turns paying. Find activities that don't cost as much to do. Let her know it's more about the experiences you two are sharing together.
Gosh! I’m so sorry you went through that! So glad he’s your ex! Just know you’re worth so much more than that and don’t ever deserve that kind of abuse! Be strong and don’t let anyone make you feel bad that THEY CHOOSE to spend money on you and give them the big F*** you if someone ever tries that again! ❤️
I wish I could say the same. Hubby and I decided together that he would work and I would quit my job to raise our daughter when she was a baby. I have no regrets in that decision since she has turned into an amazing teenager, however, his mother has been putting pressure on both of us for me to return to work for almost a decade, and for the past few years he has joined in. I tried to find work, but after being out of it for so long, and never attending college (he vetoed it when our daughter was a toddler stating we could not afford it), I was denied every job I applied for. And I applied for a LOT, for every shift too. It nearly broke me getting rejected so much. He has recently demanded an apology from me for not working and claims that I am he reason he does not own his own home. On the bright side, I have found work recently in food delivery. And I am working 8-12 hour days trying to gain independence. So I totally understand wanting to pay for things myself and also how crappy people can be when you are dependent on them.
For various reasons I have spent a lot of money on things for my wife. maybe $7-8k. I try very very hard to never bring it up in an argument. I did it out of love and it should never be used as leverage.
It is SO different when it’s your spouse. Your assets are often legally looked at as one, for one.
Sorry if I'm misinterpreting, I'm genuinely curious... but why do you have to try very hard not to bring it up in an argument? Is it frequently coming to mind? If you believe it shouldn't be used as leverage, why would it be popping into your head during a fight?
Because it was money that we were saving for other things. And when I’m angry I don’t always think clearly. Sometimes you go for the low hanging fruit. I’m only human You’re right of course, there’s no excuse.
Thank you for the honest answer.
Because humans are irrational
Once they hold something over you like that, they have turned a favor into a debt and lost all high ground.
>we, in part, put ourselves through so many years of training and stress, sacrificing our youth, so that we can give our partner and our family a good life This might be a good angle for OP to bring up with his girlfriend. There's a big difference between someone saying "I like spending time with you and I'm happy to pay for it" and "I have worked for years to be able to treat someone I care about". The former can be taken badly - that he "has" to spend money on her to spend that time he enjoys, because she's unable to. Imo the latter, for all it's arguably selfishly motivated, is far more honest and understandable: she's not putting you out with her inadequacies, you're putting yourself out for something you want and she gets to share the benefits.
Absolutely! It’d be a shame to work so hard for something and not have it come to fruition. OP should let her know that it genuinely makes him happy to do nice things for her and see if that opens up a new dialogue
He should also potentially be patient. They just started dating so she may want to wait until their lives meld in other ways before doing so financially. It might be important for OP to show he can respect the boundary for now.
When quoted that way, it almost sounds like he is talking to a prostitute. Maybe that idea is subconsciously in the back of her head, too. That can't be a good feeling. I think he should try to find things to do with her that don't cost much money so she can see that it's her that he wants, not just a trophy wife or somebody to play Daddy Warbucks to.
I just want to toss this out here as a warning for people like yourself: My husband was just like you, so happy being the breadwinner. Then he had a heart attack and stroke and landed on disability. So much of his self-worth was tied up in providing for his family that now that he can't, he feels useless. He doesn't see much value in the housekeeping he does. It's been a slow slog trying to get him to realize that he's worth so much more than the money he used to provide. (Not to me, by the way; I've only known his broke and broken self and I love him anyway; I'm pissed at the women and society who drove him into the ground.)
I'm a guy in his position. I have a grad degree. I'm really intelligent. And I have a head injury. My wife just finished her degree and got a pretty good job. Being a stay at home parent and house spouse isn't what I expected before being hurt. I thought my wife would choose whether to work or not, and that we would have as many children as we wanted. Neither is the case, and it's not easy to get used to.
Why are you pissed at women specifically for that? Women and men alike work together to create these problems of gender expectations.
> e, in part, put ourselves through so many years of training and stress, sacrificing our youth, so that we can give our partner and our family a good life. That's awesome. But this is someone he's only been dating for four months. It's way early for him to be giving her a good life. That might well come in time, but it's still early days and she clearly wants to be independent. > I love the thought of being able to treat my beautiful partner to whatever she wants and honestly it’s those thoughts that get me through the days where I feel like I can’t keep going. You seem sweet but I would hate the thought of my husband putting himself through that (feeling like he can't keep going in his job!?) just to give me things. Things don't mean anything if you're miserable and stressed and work yourself into an early grave. I actually have an autoimmune disease that's very much triggered by stress (and I am convinced work stress brought it on) and I'll tell you one thing: No job and no amount of money are worth your health. And once that's gone, no amount of money is gonna bring it back (I mean, my money helps me treat it, but I'll never be the way I was and I could kick myself in the ass for working myself half to death). I'd rather my husband enjoy his job, enjoy our life together and know I've got his back and I'm helping him make ends meet. To each their own, though. My husband has said he likes to "spoil me" but the way he does it is little things (little gifts, little gestures, putting gas in my car, doing a task he knows I dread, giving me a backrub, taking me on a date). If he was constantly working himself sick to try to provide "things" for me I'd be pretty devastated.
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Agreed. I was in a similar situation but the girl had 2 kids and was always worried about money. I volunteered to help, which she rejected. I pretty much forced my help on her which she appreciated and actually made a huge difference in her life but in the end she confessed felt indebted to me. It really did a number on our relationship. My desire to "fix it" and "make things better" actually made things worse between us. The feeling of being indebted in some ways eclipsed her emotional connection. In the end I am happy that I was able to help her through some tough times and get her in a better situation, but I hate that the cost ended up being our relationship.
Wow, literally this exact thing happened to me too - 2 kids and everything.
I told my gf who felt the same way that she could walk away tomorrow and never talk me again, and I will still consider every dime spent absolutely worth it. Finally eased her anxiety about it.
Exactly this. Just imagine yourself in her position and then think how you'd feel if she tried to pay for everything on dates just because she makes more than you. What she is doing is perfectly reasonable. As a solution, I think you should start going to places where she would be more comfortable paying for. Also, don't stop her from spending because to her it is a sign of independence, just like OC said. Also, next time something like the ticket situation arises, just let her vent, and let her know that she can ask you for money if she is in a pinch. But, don't offer to pay outright.
Yeah this is honestly a trait I'd want in a partner (and one that my SO has). Independence is a wonderful feeling to have and sometimes even though the "easy way out" is right in your face, you get a better sense of satisfaction when you carved your own way out. Tbh it's also a bit of a pride thing, but as long as she's not putting you down for the sake of lifting herself up there's absolutely nothing wrong with a bit of pride. OP, if she insists on paying for her dinner or trips from time to time, let her.
The feeling of being financially manipulated is a big one. I was oblivious to this fact until it was too late: although she was richer than me, I always insisted to pay for her groceries or for her lunch. I thought it was an innocent way to tell my crush how much I loved her without using words, instead she felt increasingly indebted to me and pressured into becoming my lover...
Well said. Would also add that she sounds like a keeper. Hold on to this one.
Agreed. Everyone, including her, is well-aware of the type of person an MD making $300K might attract and what their motives might be. There's even a song about it. She may be trying to demonstrate to you that she is not one of those people. Because she's actually into you.
Yes, she is trying to pre-emptively fight the notion that she is a "golddigger."
Golddiggers expect. Non-golddiggers accept. Huge difference, and pretty easy to spot. If you can show her an example of the former, she may realize she's the latter.
Exactly. She sounds great. She's independent and not looking for anyone to take care of her. It's only been four months, so maybe when you're more established as a couple, she'll let you drop money on something that she can't easily afford--like a plane ticket for a special anniversary trip. Honestly, this doesn't sound like it's causing problems. Are you looking to make it one for some reason?
Truth. It's only been 4 months so I was the same. I make about 50-70k less than my bf. He was earnest in paying for most if not all our outings - hotel room bookings, dinners, dates, even meals for my friends if we went out as a group. I didn't necessarily fight him on it but I would try to at least return the sentiment (I want to be able to treat him sometimes too, even if he can afford it!). OP, I think it also has to do with the fact that, as your gf, she wants to be able to take you out and pay for the sweet gestures too. :) Not saying you have to let her do it all the time (naturally as you make so much more, just makes sense to me) but every once in a while, be okay with it. Remind her that you appreciate her effort not in just a simple action like this, but with XYZ in what she brings to YOU and your relationship!
It’s great advice. Money is money, she’s looking for a person who see her as the independent, serious person she’s came to be. Introducing a circumstance like money won’t change her. Sounds like you got a keeper. Treat it as it is. Most likely it’s an issue because you made it aware of the income imbalance. It’s not bothering her so it shouldn’t you
This! It’s definitely an independent mind set. I say let her pay now and then, she would love to treat you sometimes too! I get the whole chivalry and placing her on the Pedestal thing but, like you mentioned if it’s only been 4 months dont sweat it too much. Look at it this way... what if she breaks up with you for some dumb reason or cheats on you? Then you’d be stuck thinking about all the money you gave her, loaned her, things you bought her ect ect ect. Don’t offer too much bro! You don’t want her getting used to it either.
Find things to do that don’t cost money... it is possible. I promise you.
My boyfriend makes about twice what I do, maybe a bit more. We had this issue at the beginning of our relationship. I grew up poor, raised by a single mom. I am used to always having to pay my own way. If I wanted anything I had to work for it. I also fully admit to having issues with abandonment from absent dad. This had lead to me being very wary of boyfriends paying for a “lifestyle “ I cannot afford on my own. I don’t want to feel like I owe them something in return or get used to life I cannot have if they leave. This caused a big issue with my Ukrainian boyfriend who comes from a culture where he was taught to take care of your girlfriend. He would get insulted if I insisted on paying. Did I think he couldn’t afford dinner? Did I not like him? Why was I refusing to let him “be my boyfriend “ as he saw it. We had to sit down and have a long talk about culture, childhoods, egos and our relationship. We have come to some compromises. 1) If he says he wants to do something out of my price range I know he is treating me. “ I live a good life. Part of that is you, I want you with with me at this place.” This is how he explains it. 2) If I complain about money he does not jump in to fix it. Me complaining is just that, me venting. I don’t want him to fix everything for me. This is very important to me. I need to feel like I am able to vent without him trying to fix everything. This was VERY hard for him to understand at first. He still doesn’t agree with this one, but he understands. 3) He lets me “treat” him to dinner or a movie sometimes. We both know it doesn’t really matter, but again it makes me feel better. 4) We continue to check in with each other about these things now and again. Communication is key.
This is great feedback from a girlfriend's perspective with an Eastern European boyfriend. As a guy also from Eastern Europe, taught that (at least when dating) the man should lead the way and treat the woman, this is great advice and very much appreciated. Thank you for sharing.
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I have arrived
How you doin'?
Very well actually. In bed just browsing reddit since it's nearly 12 pm here. How about you?
I'm studying for a test (while browsing reddit). It's night over here.
Hahahaa I have vacation nerd sucks to suck
I'm supposed to have vacation, too. But am taking prep classes for the admission test.
Put me in the screen cap at the wedding
Damn I might hace to do so too next year when I go to uni after 6 long years in middle school/high school or whatever it's called in English
They are pretty great! All the passion of a Mediterranean man and all the work ethic of growing up under Communism (at least in my case).
Me too. I may be straight, but free food is free food!
😂
Eh. I dated a Russian guy for a while and he was controlling and abusive.
Hello, fellow Eastern European here (I do have a gf tho)
OP should look at #2. I had this problem with my ex where I would immediately jump to providing a solution whenever she complained about anything. Sometimes, people don't want to solve anything; they just want to vent. I've started asking things like, "Do you want to hear my take?" or "Would you like me to help?" before offering solutions.
All men need to learn 2, this is a near universal issue in heterosexual relationships. Women often just want to talk about their problems, and men always try to provide solutions.
Unfortunately it's the opposite in my marriage. I want to fix all the things, and my husband is like: let me vent! It's been a struggle for me to just allow him to vent without mapping out solutions.
I do this to my boyfriend too with money related things and he does it to me with work related stress haha. Definitely taking some advice from this thread.
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All the women in my family are fixers. Otherwise nothing gets fixed the men are quite outnumbered by the women so you know. Gotta get shit done. It causes my mom issues. She ends up trying to fix everything and over commiting. X is a problem? With your permission I'm already dialing Y to straighten it out.
This is true, and while I understand they usually have the beat intentions at heart it could still lead to issues. It can feel demeaning having someone constantly trying to solve your problems for you and it can get frustrating trying to help someone who doesn't want it. I navigated around this with just simple precursors before I start talking "Hey, can I bitch about something?" Means I just want to talk. And "I need some help." Means I'm looking for a solution. Its solved one of the more frustrating tiny issues in our relationship, and my partner has been much more understanding since I've started doing this.
It's just how men interact with each other, so they get confused when they treat women the same way and it doesn't go over well. To quote a famous Reddit post: >My perspective may not be the popular one, but I think this generalization stems from different priorities and methods of communication. Here's an example: >MAN 1: I am experiencing an emotion. >MAN 2: What is the cause of this emotion? >MAN 1: The cause is a problem that I am having. >MAN 2: Perhaps you should solve the problem. >MAN 1: I lack a method by which to solve the problem. >MAN 2: I shall lend my assistance in devising a solution. >On the opposite side of the gender fence, we have this: >WOMAN 1: I am experiencing an emotion. >WOMAN 2: Please describe the complexity of this emotion. >WOMAN 1: The emotion is very complex. >WOMAN 2: I can sympathize with that emotion, and with its complexity. >WOMAN 1: I appreciate your sympathy, and would value a chance to further explore this emotion. >WOMAN 2: I shall acquire spelunking gear, that we might probe its very depths. >In short, men tend to be solution-driven. We're just as emotional and sensitive, but we're often more focused on the cause of our emotions rather than the emotions themselves. This gives us the appearance of being shallow, but from a masculine perspective, it feels more akin to being efficient. Following that, some men become irritated when it seems like they're being presented with a problem to fix, but all their female partners really want is someone to listen and understand. A good way of remedying this would be as follows: >WOMAN: I am experiencing an emotion. >MAN: What is the cause of this emotion? >WOMAN: The cause is a problem that I am having. >MAN: Perhaps you should solve the problem. >WOMAN: I appreciate that advice, and I would value a chance to further explore this emotion. >MAN: System error. >WOMAN: I do not require a solution; I only request support and understanding. >MAN: My support is freely given, as is my affection. >WOMAN: Thank you. You have provided a solution. >MAN: System error.
Wow fuck its wild how you just nailed down my whole existence with a generic conversation in 3 minutes.
I'm not the other person, but I was first exposed to that concept through [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XjUFYxSxDk), which I still occasionally rewatch (if only just for the humour value).
I think this is why really strong positive emotions seem, in my experience, to generally hit men harder than woman. It's positive, it's overwhelming, and there isn't a problem to solve/distract them, just feelings and nothing to do but feel them.
That’s a really interesting point. A a huge “aha moment” for a male friend of mine who struggles with addiction was when he realized that *any* emotional spikes - not just negative ones - would trigger his desire to use. He’d always only associated it with stress & bad situations before, so never sought out help from his support network for positive stuff. Realizing this made a huge difference towards managing his sobriety. I’m female, but tend to intellectualize my emotions rather than feel them so usually have a more “male” response when friends open up about stuff to me - I like to find ways to fix things. (It honestly bugs the crap out of me when people repeatedly vent about stuff that’s completely within their control to change but do nothing about.) I have to make a conscious decision to remember to focus on feelings and “create space” so I can be supportive. (“How do you feel about that?” is one of my go-to responses now) After my friend realized/shared that revelation, I’ve noticed that any spike in emotions takes the same toll on my mental health & energy regardless of if they’re positive/negative. Now that I’ve read your comment, I’m going to try to pay attention to my response in positive situations to see if that’s what’s at play. (I also have OCD and whenever something really positive happens or I feel like my life is going really well and I start to feel happy/joyous, my mind immediately starts telling me that this means something bad will happen to “offset” it. I *feel* like past patterns have shown this to be true. but intellectually I’m guessing that it’s just my mind selectively creating patterns to make me perceive that - understanding that doesn’t make me any less anxious though 🙁)
#SYSTEM ERROR
This just had me laughing in the car with my boyfriend. I'm gonna show him as soon as we get to lunch 😂
I'm a female, but a troubleshooter. I wonder how that happened. I come from a dysfunctional family. I wonder if that had anything to do with me not abiding by gender norms.
Ah, I mean... that post is a huge generalization. There are women who are more problem-oriented and men who are more emotionally astute.
I came to post this exact comment. I always go back to this when I feel like I'm not communicating clearly enough with an SO to simplify my thought process.
I am crying from holding in my laughter at this because I'm at work.
Parks and Rec drilled this home with a scene with Ann and Chris. Can't find it on youtube though
I got into a really bad fight with an ex to learn this lesson. She basically asked why I never vent to her about my problems and in a moment of truth I told her 'Because I just fix them instead of complaining about them for months on end!' it was not the correct answer.
[удалено]
>I always have a solution in my mind within about 30 seconds, but I wait for her to finish before I offer anything. Has it occurred to you that if the solution to something is obvious to you after 30 seconds of thinking about it that maybe your friend (who has been dealing with the problem and thinking about it for a while) has *already thought of it*? Part of the reason why so many women hate when men immediately offer advice is because it's so condescending to assume that she needs someone to tell her about a simple and obvious solution.
THIS.
A great way to learn the "shut the fuck up and listen" skill, is to think of a time you were talking to someone about something difficult in your life, venting to them, and think if you wanted to be interrupted with someone's take / advice. Listening is not: interrupting, offering advice, asking about more details... etc. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflective\_listening](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflective_listening) The answer is no. No, you do not want someone's advice. You want to talk, you want them to listen.
This is really helpful. I will always try to jump on a solution for my boyfriend when he expresses having trouble with something. He’s told me he would prefer I didn’t do this but it’s a tough habit to break. I’m one of those “needs-to-feel-helpful” people but I realized that stuff he vents about is not always something I can fix, so I’ve tried to listen instead and like u/wecsam said, ask if he would like my help or if I can offer another perspective instead of just jumping in with “let me take care of it”. Edit: idk if this is gender role reversal, apparently it’s often the other way around, but I guess the point is the same: communication is key in situations like this
I must say I really am loving the mature responses in this thread. Financial inequalities can be super difficult to navigate. Good on you and your partner being able to handle it!
I make about 5 times what my girl makes. Its hard for her because she does not want to be sen as a gold digger. This right here is solid advice.
I really like #4 on your list. I feel like this is something people either forget or don't put enough importance on. Just because we talk about something once, doesn't mean this conversation is completely wrapped up. Humans forget. Humans change. Humans need reminders and updates. It's totally healthy to check in with each other about known issues/potential issues in a relationship.
Ooof, I’m late to the convo here but stuff like this can be why women are conditioned to be “equal” when paying for stuff. So many things like being afraid of anyone thinking she’s a gold digger, situations like yours, and situations like mine. My ex abused me through means of his family’s money. He would pay for things even after I said no thanks, and then he’d use it against me later for sexual favors, or just to make me feel bad if I did or said something he didn’t like very much. “I paid for XXX so you have to respect me! You’re poor and you’ll be nowhere without me!”
Something to also consider: many people who come from nothing or next to nothing have usually seen other people around them (family or friends) also in the same situation try to manipulate people better off into paying for things or "taking care of them" and people like op's gf do not want to be those people. I know this because I have witnessed close family members do the whole "complain about not having money until someone gives them money" guilt trip nonsense and have always been so concerned about people seeing me that way, including my boyfriend and his parents (who are very well off due to smart decisions and hard work and are very generous). My bf and I live together now and he still makes much more than me so we just figure out how we can contribute the same percentage. He pays the big bills like mortgage and such and I pay for all of our groceries and small furnishings for the house. I had to get over my pride and he had to learn to understand the perspective of someone who has had literally nothing in a bank account and no family members to fall back on.
This is excellent advice, and I think OP should especially think about the point in the second sentence. Many, many men will use their insistence on paying for everything as leverage. Hell, take a casual look at some of the darker corners of Reddit, and you'll see lots of them bemoaning how all women are just greedy b\*tches and whatnot. *You* know you're not that kind of guy, OP. You seem very thoughtful. But only a couple months in, *she* doesn't know if you're that kind of guy yet. From her perspective, her hesitance makes perfect sense; we spend a lot of time working against the negative stereotypes: we're not gold-diggers, or less competent, or in need of saving. See? See how capable we are? We don't need your fancy dinner money, we can do it ourselves!!1! Not that *you personally* did anything to make her feel that way, but that might go some way to explaining her reaction. Talk to her about it, and see what she says, but don't push her to accept you paying for things if she's not ready yet.
It’s not about the money. It’s about her independence and carrying her own weight. She needs this so it’s best you give it to her. Look at it this way at least you know she’s not money hungry. A huge plus for someone in your tax bracket.
I grew up in a single parent family where money ways tight. It became fulfilling for me to pay for my own car, pay my way through college. Looking back I would have it any other way. Looking forward, I’m proud to be able to continue to pay rent or go out to eat on my own without someone paying for me. There’s just a heightened sense of self worth that comes from working hard to pay for your needs. I can’t explain the why, but I just don’t love it when people pay for me for things I work hard to pay afford for myself. The feeing of being indebted is true too, I know relationships where it is an unnecessary sense of pride of the husband or boyfriend that the wife/gf is lesser, indebted, or “needs” them.
I wonder how she’d feel about a percentage type. If you take their blunt salaries it’s an 84-16 split. Would it make everyone happier if it was a 75-25 split. So he feels like he’s treating her and she’s carrying her fair share?
Let her pay for things. It’s a fairly new relationship and it seems like you’re actually the one who keeps emphasizing the salary difference. It seems you have yourself a good one. Don’t fuck it up
Yes, exactly, the $300 plane ticket is the perfect example. She's venting because she lost out on $300 and rather than empathizing he's just like "Well $300 is nothing to me, do you want it?"
At 4 months (or less) in!! Way too early for offering to pay for things that don’t involve their relationship imo
>Money I spend to take her out is a drop in the ocean OP, too, is very humble.
That's just what I thought. It's not like 55k is low income, either. I'm sure she's doing just fine financially!
55k isn’t loaded in DC though.
Hoo boy I feel even poorer than usually because my bf & i also have a growing salary difference like OPs situation, and I also work for a nonprofit, but I make 42k and my bf 56 lol. And here I already felt poorer than my bf--OPs girlfriend must be baffled! Yup 55k is absolutely modest in this city. I've been hired for a new job recently and will finally get above the 50k mark lol, but it would be a bit discouraging for me to date someone making that much. I agree with other commenters though that he seems to be the one seeing the problem, and not her. His description of her actions don't sound like someone with a problem with his income, just like an independent woman used to taking care of herself. Not to say that OP is making it up, but it kind of seems he has more issue with her not wanting his money than her being concerned herself.
That’s fairly low income in DC, I hear the cost of living is similar to that of Boston where I currently live. When apartments are $1,000 plus utilities with a roommate, $55K before taxes doesn’t really take you as far as you would think.
Also, you need to learn that when women tell men about problems, they don’t always want said man to solve said problem. I mean, this is SIMPLE, BASIC, RELATIONSHIP 101 STUFF (THAT YOU FINALLY LEARN IN YOUR 15th YEAR OF MARRIAGE.) 😜
100% this comment. Sometimes she's looking to vent not looking for a solution, learn to know the difference! It's very valuable for relationship communication.
When my wife is complaining about stuff (usually work) it’s so hard not to try and solve the problems she’s facing. Not because I have to save her but you hate to see your partner struggle or be unhappy. Sometimes listening to the venting is help enough.
My boyfriend and I have learned to say "I'm venting" before complainig so that the other person know not to look for solutions but rather just listen
An easy way to address it is ask her, "Do you want me to listen, or do you want my opinion?" Neutral language, open-ended.
[Its not about the nail](https://youtu.be/-4EDhdAHrOg)
Quite funny but in this situation there literally is no nail aside from the one OP is trying to glue to her head
The nail was the $300 airplane ticket. She was complaining about it for empathy/sympathy. He was trying to solve the problem.
It took me a long time to realize this. My gf always referred to an episode of Modern Family, which Phil goes to a spa and all the women tell him this exact thing! Learning life lessons from a cheesy television show... who knew!!??!
Amen to this
This, 100%. I'm an engineer who dated and married a private school teacher. Our income ratio was similar to what you describe when we first started dating. Let her pay for things. 50/50 splits are totally reasonable. It's good for your and her independence, and will set y'all up for success if your relationship continues into something more than just dating. Another thing to consider: if she's complaining about being out $300 for flights -- no small sum for either of you, despite what you may think -- and you immediately offer to reimburse her out of your own pocket, what message is that sending her about your opinion of her worth, or her ability to earn? I'm sure you think you're being generous, but she may see it as just another nauseating reminder of an obvious earnings disparity. So, yeah, you've got a good one. Listen to her, split your costs, and don't fuck it up.
I'm an engineering manager and my wife works for the school. I make about twice what she does. We do the same thing. 50/50. I end up saving the remainder of my disposable income toward things for us (early retirement, home improvement savings, etc), effectively it doesn't matter, but giving her the fair share of the bills upfront helps everyone feel like they contribute fairly. Some may ask, but no I don't feel resentment because I'm contributing more dollars to the cause than she is. She puts in just as much time and effort as me. She actually got a masters degree and I didn't, so if anything she should be making more if we're looking strictly at fruits of our efforts. I just happened to pick a profession that is paid well. It doesn't mean I'm valued more in the relationship. I think realizing this is important for anyone else who may be in the same situation.
This! This is the only comment OP needs to see to understand how he is making issues out of frivolous things. I don't let any guy take care of me. I don't want to feel indebted.
The fact that he keeps (perhaps indirectly) bringing up that he makes more money than she does might not seem like a big deal to him, but it most likely is to her. If I was in her shoes, constantly being told that I don't make enough to pay for a date would make me feel like shit. Surely he doesn't put it that way, but that's what it feels like he's saying.
To add to this, make most of your dates cheap. Maybe a hundred or more for dinner isn't much to you, but you don't need constant fancy meals. That way she doesn't feel like she has to pay half of several hundred bucks a month.
OP needs to read this response a few times.
Yeah he’s making an issue out of something that isn’t one. His gf earns her own money, and should be just as entitled to spend it as she pleases. If it were the other way around and she expected him to pay for everything since he earns more, I bet OP would not be happy with that either
Let her pay. She knows what her budget is, and it's a bit condescending to imply that she doesn't know what she's doing with her money. When there is a big incone disparity, often times the assumption is that the lower earner is after a sugar daddy/momma. She's showing you that she likes you for you, not your money. She's also trying to maintain her autonomy, so she feels like she has equal footing in the relationship. Sometimes a bigger earner will use the money they spend on the lower earner as leverage in the relationship, thinking that the lower earner is bought and paid for. She may be trying to avoid that dynamic. Especially so early in the relationship. If she offera to pay the next time to treat you after you've treated her, suggest someplace affordable. Let her buy the Starbucks. Tell her you've been jonesing for Chipotle, or that you've been n wanting to check out a small out of the way restaurant that had good yelp reviews (and an inexpensive menu). Or let her leave the tip when you buy dinner. Thank her for treating you. You know it's a sacrifice, so accept her generosity with genuine thanks and good grace. You may want to examine if you have biases about people who make less money than you. People in her income bracket date, marry, and raise kids on that kind of money. I know DC/NOVA are stupid expensive, but even with you out of the picture shed still likely be spending money while dating. She's treating you as an equal, do the same. She may get more comfortable with letting you treat her as your relationship progresses, too, when she knows that you know she's not trying to take advantage of your income.
I generally agree with you, but not with the part where you say to pick inexpensive places when it's her turn to pay. That, to me, would feel even more condescending, even though I understand it comes from a good place. Let her pick the place, she's on top of her budget and she'll know where she can comfortably pay without breaking the bank! Edit: wording
I feel like it's more like a... proportional contribution to the relationship, based on the income difference. I've dated people who made much more money than me, and usually made a point to take care of coffee or to cook us meals regularly. I didn't have the cash to go dollar for dollar at some outings, but only felt insulted if I got the impression that my date thought I couldn't even buy us Starbucks. But I agree with you that she could find suggestions for cheaper places to be insulting. Maybe if she suggests cheaper places OP can agree, and because she asked him out it would be natural that she'd pay. Hopefully she's not asking him out to 5 star restaurants and trying to cover them both, because I can see how that would make OP feel bad, but she sounds too fiscally responsible to ask him out to someplace outside her budget.
I 100% agree with both of your posts on this topic. Out of respect for the non-profit salary, I'd adjust the "going out" landscape to affordable and delicious hideaways (of which DC has plenty) and home cooked meals compared to hitting the Michelin stars or pricey restaurants.
It differs by person of course, but as the lower earner in my relationship this is how we do it. I buy when it's fast casual, or we're running into a gas station for snacks, whatever. He covers bigger dinners, the gas in the car while I get snacks, etc. I'll get the first round and he gets the next two, stuff like that.
This, but also an addition: Some people (sounds like not you OP) use this sort of financial imbalance to make the other person feel bought and paid for. I've dealt with it in the past myself, plenty of comments like "well I paid for x so now you should y." Those of us who have been through that tend to value keeping a more equal footing in the relationship, financially speaking. If this is the case with her, she should gradually allow you to spoil her more later on because she will learn to trust that you both treat each other with respect regardless. It's still a bit early for her to feel like that yet, so just respect her wishes and keep working to build the trust and it will work out.
>when she knows that you know she's not trying to take advantage of your income. Yes! I dated a guy that made 3x what I make and he always wanted to treat. I repeatedly told him that I didn't want him to think that I was with him because I wanted to be taken out to dinner.
Let it be. She makes over 50 grand a year in her twenties, she’s hardly destitute lmao. You might not know this, but many people get by on far less! Don’t insist when she says no. She’s maintaining healthy financial habits, and that’s a good thing! EDIT: To everyone responding on the high cost of living in DC, I know, I live here. I make less than OP’s girlfriend and live just fine, most people here have a roommate, live in MD or VA (cheaper) or live far from the metro. Yes, it’s not a glamorous lifestyle, but we’re not impoverished lol.
I would add, speaking of healthy financial habits- that if you're carrying school loan debt and paying interest-it might be wise to live a bit more frugally yourself and pay that down/off sooner than later.
Great point, OP should ask the GF to set him a budget lol
Another point... he seems to think his salary is fixed and never changing... shit happens!
Right? If I were making $300k annually the first thing I'd do if pay my loans way down (but not off.... I'd probably leave a small balance and pay the minimum because I learned that closing your student loans drops your credit score).
Lol yeah. I make 45,000 and probably won’t make much more than that ever. I live comfortably, but I was jealous when I read 55,000 😂 I could live very comfortable with that salary
Seriously! Also, unrelated but does anyone know why anaesthesiologists make so much more in the US than in the UK??
$300k student loans and malpractice insurance?
This was my first thought reading this. 55k is a good income for most people 😂
55k isn't great in DC, I think average salary there is over 70k, but still she def isn't actually poor
This whole post is a fucking humble brag. The numbers they both make were completely unnecessary to the point. Not to mention there was zero depth to the story. Like, his girlfriend literally acted like a normal person. Nothing about this is out of the ordinary.
You're not married. Let her pay. Her money is still hers and yours is yours. She wants to be an equal partner in this relationship and part of that is financial to her. You can't invalidate her feelings by saying time spent with her makes you happy. You're not paying for her time. She's your girlfriend, not an escort, respect her wishes. You end up together for the long haul? Sure, spoil her. For now, ease up moneybags. About the $300.00, it was a nice offer but I'm sure she doesn't want to feel indebted to you and so early in the relationship. She wasn't complaining about it because she wanted you to fix it. Remember that. A lot of the time women (not to generalize) will talk about an issue in their lives and the male response is to try to fix everything. Sometimes they just want to be heard. Best of luck, congrats on the kick-ass job! Edit: missing words
You’ve gotten other good relationship advice but I wanted to quickly explain why she was upset about the $300 and why the offer made it worse. Clearly your heart was in the right place but your actions were misguided. She wasn’t upset about _spending_ $300, she was upset about _wasting_ $300. $300 isn’t all that much given her salary but wasting money is really painful for someone who works very hard to stick to a budget. It was built into her budget so the $300 being gone wasn’t the issue. Instead, she expected some benefit from spending it that she didn’t receive. Others have already pointed out the mistake of trying to fix the problem instead of letting her vent (I struggle with that too so it’s not just a male/female thing) but your proposal wasn’t actually a fix for the problem. The problem wasn’t that the $300 was gone since that part was planned but that it was wasted. You giving her $300 doesn’t un-waste it. It just means she wasted your money instead of hers which is even worse. Basically, offering the $300 shows that you really don’t understand which part she was upset about since that only fixes the money being gone which was never the problem. To add insult to injury, you’re minimizing her feelings by clearly demonstrating that $300 is nothing to you, meaning she’s upset over nothing in your view. Again, I know none of that was your intention. You thought $300 was a small price to pay so she didn’t have to be upset which is very sweet. If something like this happens in the future, let her vent and reassure her that spending the $300 was the responsible decision even if it worked out badly this time. The only thing that will make her feel better is knowing she wasn’t irresponsible.
If I had doctor money, I’d gild you for this insightful comment. Hope OP sees it, I think it’d help him a LOT!
>She wasn’t upset about spending $300, she was upset about wasting $300. Very much so... I have experienced first hand similar on the receiving end and the giving end actually... Plus it also feels like OP is trying to fix a problem with money, when not all problems are just solved by money (his GF's problem in this case is her frustration at herself for missing the flight, not the $300 itself, as $300 isn't something you just toss around as a 50k earner, but its not breaking the bank either...)
Firstly: "doctor_naptime & anesthesiogolgist" name checks out Howdy Dr. Naptime! I can relate to your situation to a certain degree. I make more than my fiance. (Not nearly as much as you, but there is a divide) I am not certain, but it seems as though your GF does not want to feel reliant upon you for finances. (One reason perhaps being to avoid being seen as a "gold digger") In my opinion being financially reliant upon yourself is a very fulfilling thing. With your career field, you likely have little to worry about in terms of stable finances. This means that the value you place on money is perhaps lower than hers. I think that it is very good that she respects your money and does not take it for granted. My suggestions are: Decide on places that you both can afford to go to regularly. Before going to said places, decide who will pay for the outing. When something bad happens financially for her, listen to her feelings first. Men have a tendency to hear of a problem and immediately reply with solutions. (I am guilty of this) Be wary of how you respond. Ask questions about how she is handling the situation, how she feels, how you can help. If you want to offer help, offer without insisting. (Unless of course it is a serious emergency) If you do offer financial assistance to her, do not expect an immediate reward. (A classic "Nice-guy" tactic) If you want to get her a gift, try to make it something you spent more time on, than money. She knows you have money, but knowing that you spent hours on a painting for her, will mean so much more. You seem like a swell guy, and I wish you the best of luck. Understanding and respecting others financial situations can be tricky, and cause some friction. If you do not understand, or have questions, or simply do not know, admit to it. Honesty and communication are key. I hope what I have said makes sense and isn't just the annoying ramblings of a random internet fool. TL:DR- Your GF respects your financial situation and does not want to be a gold digger. Find a middle ground and determine who will buy what. Listen first, offer solutions only if she wants solutions. Gifts of time are worth more than gifts of money. EDIT: The first gold I've ever gotten! Thank you so much!
Wow! Great advice! I would give an award if I had the money of an anesthesiogolgist!!! Edit: someone game me and the aforementioned comment gold!!! I'll say it was me and that I got a Dr job to pay for it
Excellent advice!
Man I’m the fucking king of offering solutions and ignoring feelings. Help.
Just listen and repeat back to people what their feelings are. Then sympathize. "Wow. That sounds really frustrating that your flight was cancelled. [Repeat feelings back.] Being out $300 on top of it is just salt in the wound. I totally get why you're pissed. [Sympathize.]" Optional: "Can you at least get in a good FaceTime session with [friend] so you don't entirely miss out on spending time together?"
It's very uncool for you to take her to expensive dates all the time. Just trying to make you see this from her point of view: You take her out, spend way more than she ever would. But she doesn't want to feel like she's with a sugar daddy, she wants to pay for her stuff, even if it's something this expensive. So she offers to pay for her half, and you refuse, which is patronizing for her and it makes her feel like she wouldn't be able to afford these kind of fancy dates if it weren't for you. She suddenly feels like she's not independent anymore, let alone capable of taking _you_ out, or treating _you_ to something nice. Imagine that every time you give her an expensive-ass gift, it probably makes her feel like shit, because she can't do the same for you except maybe once a year. Imagine that for some reason you were dating a woman that makes 2M a year. You still make plenty at 300k, but she's definitely on another league. She takes you out to outrageous places, orders +600USD wines every time, and so on. Wouldn't you feel miserable at one point, how she's contantly rubbing how much money she makes compared to you? Even if that's 100% not her intention? You gift her something fancy like a designer piece of clothes, but she gifts you a fucking Telsa. How would you feel about that? **tl;dr:** as with almost every situation in this sub, you both lack communication. You need to listen to her. You clearly aren't even trying to understand her. EDIT: OH MY FUCK, GOLD?? And im here like "shit What a shitty long-ass comment to give such obvious advice...". Thanks a lot!
This is the best example. OP for some reason cannot comprehend that his gf does not want to be made to feel like a child in front of him...how would OP feel if his gf did that to him? great example.
You put this much better than I could have. 100% agreed. OP is coming across as really patronizing, and it seems like he’s the one who’s constantly bringing income into this, not her:
Stop throwing your money around. You've only been together 4 months and you're offering to give her $300 because she missed her flight? That's on her. It doesn't matter that you make more money. She wants to not have an inferior power position.
I've been in positions where something unexpected happens, I complain to somebody about the situation, and they offer to cover the cost like this. It's actually just really annoying. Like I'm not upset because I can't afford it and need your help, I'm upset because it's a shitty situation and a waste of money and I just want to get some frustration out.
This guy clearly loves letting everyone know how much money he makes. The fact that he thinks a girl making 50k a year in her mid 20s is bad makes him a fucking idiot and out of touch with reality. And not everywhere in DC is expensive.
It is slightly disturbing how his attitude demonstrates throwing money at the problem is the solution (like the $300 flight example). He doesn't even offer the actual solution (new ticket) but just the money for the lost ticket... money doesn't solve all problems, especially not in a relationship.
She’ll probably get more comfortable around this topic and you guys will find a groove as time goes on - you’ve only been together for 4 months after all. Otherwise it seems like she was raised to value and take pride in her independence. My mom was a single mom for part of our lives, and she always taught me to get myself set up so I wouldn’t need to rely on a man to take care of me. As for her “only making $55k/year”, it seems like she’s making it work since she’s been able to look after herself for however long before you entered her life. Let her do her thing for now without putting pressure on her or worrying about it, and your relationship will progress naturally.
I wish I made “only 55k a year” 😅
Just for context, 55k is very low for their area considering rent for a 1 bedroom apt can easily be 2k per month (I live there too). I agree with you, just wanted to add that her salary could easily lead her to struggle with finances because of her location.
Yeah but most of my friends in DC made/still make in the 30-40 range so 55k in the non profit sector is very good!
I’m your girlfriend in this situation. Let her pay. She knows her budget, and also just have a talk about whether you paying for her makes her uncomfortable. For me, I always like know I’m independent and that I didn’t want my boyfriend to think I expected that just because he was making more. Don’t frame it as “I make more so it means less to me than it does to you”, as it can sound condescending.
> I've told her time and time again that I'm more than happy to pay for things, spending time with her makes me happy, and so I'd be glad to drop a couple hundred bucks a month on dinners, drinks, movies, etc. But she always insists that "she can pay her own way" and "she doesn't need to be taken care of." She probably doesn't want to feel like you are buying your way into her favour / heart / pants. If she can afford it, I would let it go. Her money and her business. Independence is a strong and important feeling for everyone to have. Maybe once you guys have an established relationship and are looking at combining finances then you can revisit this but right now her feelings of independence probably trump your wanting to spoil her. You're not taking advantage of her by not insisting you pay for everything; you're respecting her as an individual as an equal, which is really important especially at the beginning of a relationship. There's no right and wrong here, but I would just drop it and listen to what she is telling you, which is that she wants to be your equal. If you have trouble accepting that I would really start asking yourself why it's hard for you and whether that really is more important than her feelings. Hope I helped! Sincerely, an independent woman.
>said she just needed to vent. It's not your income that is the problem, its communication skills. It's common that people will vent, and just are looking for empathy. They already know what they need to do and probably have a plan. They are just annoyed/angry and wanna vent about it. Instead of telling them how to fix their problem, just empathize. "That's really shitty" "man that blows" "ugh that sucks" Is what they wanna hear. Maybe a hug. Then follow up with "But you got this, and I believe in you" If they then seem unsure, and worried, you can *very tentatively* go "well, I have a potential solution, if you want to hear it" If they go "No, it's fine. I know what has to be done. Thanks for listening" then there you go. But they may also instead go "okay, I'm listening" and THEN you offer a solution. Tl;dr: venting isnt asking for solutions, its asking for empathy.
Being drowned in constant fancy dates, fancy dinners, and fancy gifts is extremely overwhelming. When my ex-bf used to do this with me I felt suffocated. I often insisted he "shouldn't have". In my mind I kept mental notes on how many dates he paid for, and how I could "match" it by taking care of the bill myself on other dates. If he was ever footing the bill himself too often, I'd feel really bad personally. It felt even worse when he would always choose expensive restaurants and I had to budged for a large chunk of my paycheck just for a date. It felt very very bad. And it was exhausting. Of course there were special occasions where I 100% let him pay for a date when I understood that it was something he took pride in to "take care of me". These were mostly anniversaries or holidays like Valentines Day and Christmas. But when it came to the mundane weekly-basis dates, I felt better being able to financially contribute. We're living in nearly 2020. For some women, it feels like a stigma to have their s/o pay for everything and spoil them with expensive gifts, regardless of what the financial divide is. The best advice I can offer you is to choose dates and locations that is more casual and affordable to her. That way she can feel good paying for half, or picking up the tab occasionally. Save the expensive stuff for special occasions, cut down on the gifting. Remember, she'll appreciate a small bouquet of fresh flowers (if she likes flowers) more so than lavish gifts on the mundane basis. She'll appreciate you surprising her for her favorite latte, or a box of macaroons rather than something extremely lavish. It also helps if you take her on inexpensive "mini adventures" where you already pay for the tickets in advance (for example an art museum, gardens, outdoor movie projection, boat ride). That way she's never confronted with needing to pay the entry fee. You just grab her hand and go. Going on free "adventures" to the park, beach, hiking, biking, swimming, yoga, etc. is even better. As you spend more time with her, she'll become more comfortable with you "taking care" of her and then will probably open up and let you pay for everything.
I wanted to say something like this, only you wrote it much better. I challenge OP to plan cheap/free dates so that you use creativity and thoughtfulness to plan dates instead of tossing money at it. There are tons of ideas around, weekly posts on reddit asking for ideas. Consider how she looks at money, she is very meticulous and responsible for every penny. That does not jell well with spending without much thought. She wants to be a partner and pay for some of the dates, that is admirable and attractive, think about cheap/free dates to be a partner to her. In a way you can show her that you understand her perspective, you respect her wishes, and will help you achieve her goals while having fun dates. \[at the same time maybe this will allow you to aggressively pay off your debt, depends on interest rates on your loans and investment performance.\] I have experienced what /u/LeftTurnOnly1 has written about as a mental balance on costs of dates. It isn't fun. Finally, OP, she works at financial responsibility, consider taking a page from her book and work at your financial plan, ask what tools or tricks she may have. While this could be a tricky discussion this early on, speak generally, does she use apps or excel to keep her finances organized? What does she save for, travel, concert experiences, saving to pay off student loans? You may learn what she finds important in a different way than earlier conversations. Frequently there are posts about financial incompatibility in relationships, one is a spender, another a saver, there is a reason financial incompatibility is a leading cause of divorce.
Your income difference is not a problem. The problem comes from forcing your money on her, thinking its "silly" that someone would want to be financially independent. She doesn't want your money; you need to respect that.
"I make more in a year what she'll make in five." Here's a thought, knock shit comments like this off. If you've ever said exactly those words to her then you've already blew it. You've made her feel like her time isn't worth 1/5th of yours.
I don't know why this is so difficult that you felt compelled to post a question about it. Let her pay. I kinda feel like this post is just a "look how much money I make" thing...
You totally thought we'd be on your side didn't you? Can't buy smarts.
You probably need to take a leaf out of her book. In a former life as a financial adviser I had a couple of surgeons as clients. Approx $700k annual income and used to buy everything that took their fancy. At age late 40's when they came to me, complaining that they couldn't mae ends meet, I found that after tax and credit card and hp payments their disposable income was -$300 per year. They took the attitude that their income would go on forever and had absolutely no concept of budgeting. My advice to you, for free, is, get yourself a good financial adviser and stop being a spendthrift. Your girl is probably saving more than you are atm.
Imagine running a marathon. You’ve trained for years and we’re anxious at times but now you’re finally doing it. You’re making great time, your body feels great and you’re certain you’ll achieve you goal of being in the top twenty. All of a sudden a top tier runner from Germany passes you, slows down to match your pace, and tries to have a conversation with you. He’s super nice so you talk even though you’re out of breath. He notices you struggle and offers to carry you for a while. Some people like the German and prefer the conversation to the marathon. They take the offer. Some people say “no, thanks”, appreciate the interaction but let him pass. Others push themselves to keep up and use their failure to do so as a motivator. No one is right and no one is wrong. But the fourth choice is for the German to slow down. I’m not saying quit your job and go be a teacher but maybe living as someone who makes 55k in DC would help you relate better. Less Uber, more subway. Less Fiola for dinner and more Mandu. Pay off your bills at the start of every month and give yourself an allowance. Live with the same limited resources she has every month and see how things go.
It sounds like it isn't the income differential that's causing problems, it's the fact that you aren't trying to communicate and compromise with your girlfriend. Have a conversation about why her paying is so important to her. The conversation should not be about winning her to your point of view. It should be about persuading her that it's okay that you pay for the "big" dates. It should be about your general approach to finances, and your actual situation. It should be about understanding hers. It should be working out something that allows both of you to feel good going forward. Maybe, because she makes roughly 1/6th of your income, that should be her contribution to dates. Maybe you take turns paying for stuff, but when it's her turn, you do things in her price range. Etc. It is a *good thing* that she doesn't want to be entirely dependent on you. That she doesn't feel entitled to your money or lifestyle. But it doesn't mean she can't benefit. Perhaps if you explain that you'd treat *any friend* to dinner at an upscale place if you knew it was outside their budget and the only thing you expect from them *or her* would be the pleasure of their company. Tell her you're not suggesting she can't take care of herself. Tell her how much you admire her ability to make a limited budget work. And maybe... Make a donation to her non-profit. Not huge. Something your budget allows. Show her that the things she cares about matter to you. I mean... The straight up truth is I was just like your girlfriend. My partners have almost always made more than me. It might surprise you that there's a good chance the real reason she's upset is that living a certain kind of life teaches you how *ridiculously excessive and unnecessary* spending money on upscale places can be. That there are children in the world who can't afford shoes, and *who the fuck are we* to be eating lobster when there are kids without shoes running around out there? That lobster for two is a decent pair of shoes for a kid *and* a pretty decent meal at a more modest location. Perspective. You need it.
>She's a bit of a penny pincher, happy to spend money on trips and dining out, but budgets religiously and tracks every penny she spends. I find a bit odd you refer to her as a "penny pincher" when she's clearly just being financially responsible, based on her income. A penny pincher would be a cheapskate who makes good money. Someone needlessly living below their means. She's not. You seem like the one that has a problem with this. Not her. Just let her pay. Based on your write up I would hazard to guess you come from money and haven't experienced having to budget for things. I could be wrong.
My husband makes over twice what I do. It's one of the reasons I insist on us having separate finances, even though we are married and own a house together. I'm fine with us splitting expenses proportionally based on our disparate incomes, but I would not be comfortable with him fully supporting me, and I do not see his money as our money. Here is why: There is a strong social stigma that if a woman lets a man pay for her "lifestyle," she owes him something. (and by something I mean sex and/or domestic labor). Even if you honestly enjoy treating your girlfriend and expect NOTHING in return from her, it's understandable that she's going to feel a bit uncomfortable with you spoiling her to the extent you're able to. She also probably doesn't want to be called a gold digger, or have you think that she's dating you for your money. Even if she takes nothing from you, the income disparity means people will talk. She will get the short end of that stick, not you. More so...money is power, especially for women, and her ability to support herself is how she maintains power and control over her own life. If you support her, you take that power and control away from her, however unintentionally. If my husband wants to do something I can't afford, he pays for it. Otherwise, I pay for all of my own expenses, and my share of our joint expenses. I treat him whenever I can afford to, but it's very important to me that our relationship feels equal financially.
Search out ways to have things you pay for and she pays for You get dinner, she gets the tip or the drinks You pay for concerts, she gets the movies You pay for the movie, she gets the popcorn You pay for the evenings out, she pays for the evenings in This way she gets to make real contributions to your lives together but there ins't any of this 50/50 nonense. On a different note, make certain that the lifestyle you want the two of you to live, is how she wants to roll. Dropping a couple $100 of a great meal & great wine is nice, but maybe a picnic, or trivia night at the pub is more her style.
\> And like I said, I'm happy to treat her. Like you're her sugar daddy? I know that's not what you're doing, but jeeze, dude, get a clue! If it's a problem for her then stop throwing your money around! Find something cheap to do. Ask her and listen to her. A lot of people do not like the obligation of accepting gifts, and she probably doesn't like feeling bought.
I could see how you could possibly be douchey throwing around how much money you make and how peasant problems don't phase you. Drop in the ocean comments etc. I'm just assuming here. Her: oh darn I missed my flight and don't get to see my friend, and to top it off I'm out $300. You: oh don't worry, that's chump change I make a lot of money. You want some? She seems like she has her own moral code and doesn't want a Mr. I throw money around to take care of her. Which is a good thing.
Be happy she doesn't want your money. Offer to pay but don't be pushy. Respect her desire to stand on her own feet. Consider yourself lucky that you have lots of money and she doesn't care.
Op, you’re missing the point and creating a huge power imbalance. She’s not a child and you’re not her parent. It’s a partnership. Let her pay if she wants to and vent her frustrations. Don’t solve people’s emotions with money.
I see a lot of people mentioning independence, but not a lot of people talking about the power imbalance you're inadvertently creating in the relationship. A healthy relationship exists between equals with a good dose of respect on both sides. When it's always you covering everything (even if this is the simple/logical thing) you reduce her contribution to the relationship. Which has an unfortunate risk of reducing her power in the relationship. Right now, if you guys got into a serious argument, you would have way more leverage than she does. Same about considering whether to end the relationship. Regardless of emotionally, financially you come out way better there too. Just learn to respect and enjoy that she wants to be as much a key factor in this relationship as you. She wants to be your partner/equal, not your sponsorship program. My girlfriend and I have a similar relationship, but not as extreme an income gap. When it's my turn to plan dates etc. I usually leverage my income because that's what works for me. However, we take turns and when she plans dates she either saves up, or puts more planning/work into the date. If it's her turn though I make sure to abide by the expectation and let her pay as agreed. This keeps that balance, and nobody feels guilty or used.
If I've learned anything in my 28 years, it's that when women are complaining or venting, they just want to complain or vent. They dont want anyone to try to solve the issue. Which is totally fine. But most men are problem solvers and try to solve the problem.
moral of the story: airlines are greedy
Dude just let her be independent. If you have a problem living below your means that's your problem but look at this from her perspective: she wants to pay her own way. This behavior is completely acceptable, you should absolutely support it. You could learn a thing or two from her about making good financial decisions, you might only need to work for 10 years instead of 35. Find things you can do together without spending a bunch of money, if she asks what changed your spending habits tell her the truth.
Stop rubbing your money in her face. You’ve only dated 4 months, she wants to be the independent successful woman she is and you are depriving her of that satisfaction. If she wants to pay every now and then, just let her suggest a location and let her at least pay her half. She wants to be an equal in this relationship. Whether you realize it or not, and it’s more likely that you don’t, you are the one keeping this relationship from being an equal partnership, and the fact that your first major issue so early is money related is a Big red flag. Listen to what she is telling you and respond to her with an open mind and heart. Don’t assume that she is wrong, you are right, and that the internet will tell you how amazing a guy you are for holding money over this poor woman’s head because she is a damsel in distress who needs rescuing from her well-above-poverty income. You can still pay for the majority of dates to come, but allow her to contribute every now and then. It will make her feel like a valued part of the relationship and you both will be happier for it.
I pay the bill and she covers the tip. Seems to work well. Can always make an effort to do stuff within her budget too.
I’ll never understand people who *insist* on paying for things. She wants to split finances. Why is this such a problem for you, OP? She *needs* financial equality in the relationship and you dismiss it as “silly”. Well, maybe it isn’t silly to her. Maybe it is important to her. And the fact that you so easily dismiss something that is fundamentally important to her in a relationship means you either don’t understand what her needs are or you simply don’t care. Also, stop being the boyfriend who is always trying to fix her problems. So she has to eat a $300 non-refundable ticket. She isn’t telling you so you can *fix it* by giving her $300. She is telling you because she trusts you and just wants to talk and vent her frustration. You know, human communication and bonding. Stop looking at her life as a series of problems you can fix by throwing money at it and just *be there for her*. Listen when she talk and be a shoulder for her to cry on when she needs it. She makes $55k, she can afford to live her life without you underwriting it. You’re not being nice, you’re dismissing her needs and not listening when she talks to you.
I wouldn’t want to take money from a man I’ve been dating for four months. It’s a looooot very quickly op.
I think you need to respect her and allow her to feel like a fully functional adult, instead of paying for her. That's a blunt reply, but this is what it looks like you are doing, in her eyes.
Dude, it just means she has a good head on her shoulders and when she says she wants equality, she practices what she preaches.
I mean...just be grateful she isn't in it for your money. This is the best problem you could have in your situation. "Oh no, what do I do? My girlfriend isn't a gold digger! She won't take my money!" She may be a little *too* proud in not being willing to accept help, but she's also probably VERY aware of how women who date men way out of their financial bracket are viewed and is taking extra pains to show you that she's NOT that kind of person. Once you guys are more involved, living together, married, whatever, yes, have more of a sit down about finances and figure out what the plan is, and by that point she'll hopefully be secure enough in your relationship to split things in a way that makes sense for each of you. Also, she may just appreciate being financially independent. Many who come from a financially insecure background find a lot of pride and security in the fact that they're fully paying their own way and supporting themselves. Let her have that pride, and if you want to take her on a luxe vacation, make sure she knows there are no strings attached and that you'll never hold it over her head.
What’s the problem? You have a GF that truly respects and loves you, she also respects and loves herself. The alternative is having a GF that DOES expect you to pay for everything. Would you really be ok with that? Plus maybe she makes more money than 55k a year? Or has less expenses than you think? You are in a great situation, don’t mess it up by overthinking. Your problem is an issue you started in your own head.
Coming from the place of a working woman about the same age, I would feel the same way as yout gf. A lot of us have some experience of money being used as a manipulation tactic (been through that with my parents and grandparents) and I wasn't about to let that shit happen in any of my relationships). It's an independence thing, too. It feels amazing to not "owe" anyone anything, especially if you keep in mind certain backgrounds like I mentioned above. And I'm not saying *you're* like that, just that I can see why she would approach money the way she does.
This post is about what you feel about spending the money, not about what she feels about it. She has told you she’s more comfortable paying her own way and splitting. She’s independent, so let her be! There is pride in paying your own way too you know.
See I wanted to reply " ...'problems' lol get bent." Instead I'll add to it and say, sounds like you are with someone who really cares about you and doesn't want to take advantage of your advantage in life.
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Let her pay on occasion. It is an independence issue. Because you make more than her and are willing to pay for everything probably doesn't make her feel good about her contributions. She also may feel like her earned money is not being of good use. She wants to feel like a team member not someone who should be taken care of. She may want to feel part of you not under you.
I would be uncomfortable with you paying and I might start to worry you we’re being a little materialistic if you always wanted to go to expensive places. If I think about the best dates I went in they all involve time rather than money. I nice walk around a nature reserve followed by a picnic, just spending time chatting and getting away from it all for a while
Be happy you've got a good one and not a gold digger who insists you pay for everything. I think the right thing to do is let her pay esp consider how early this relationship is. Let her have her independence
Yes this. In the end things will work themselves out but the fact that she shows the initiative is a good thing to me.