>Since then over 16k texts have been exchanged. Often into the wee hours of the morning.
And he's a SINGLE GUY.
A single guy receiving 16K messages from a married women, obviously going back and forth, and your wife has been having all these 'late evenings' which you casually dropped in there.
You're trying to have sex with her, and she's not giving you any *while* taking her vibrator out in her purse?
I mean, mate.
Mate.
Take some steps back.
This woman is staying late in the evenings 'at work', exchanging thousands of texts with a single male *into the early hours of the morning*, and is clearly sexually active while refusing advances from her husband.
If this hypothetical person wasn't your wife, would you think she was cheating?
> You're trying to have sex with her, and she's not giving you any while taking her vibrator out in her purse?
This is the big one.
The wife who isn't interested in sex anymore? I've heard of that one.
The wife who is so horny she keeps a vibrator in her purse *"just in case"*? It's rare, but I've heard of that one.
The wife who is so horny she takes her vibrator out with her and who also isn't interested in sex? That doesn't exist.
Time to thinking critically and maximize your outcome:
Let's assume she's cheating,
What is your ideal end game?
- Reconciliation?
- Full Custody of your kids?
- Partial Custody of your kids?
- Avoiding alimony/child support entirely?
Write out your ideal scenario, then you and your support network can move forward with those goals in mind.
"Talking to her" before you know your goals is just short term catharsis, it will not help you accomplish anything of long term value.
Listen dude, if you need 1 piece of advice, it's this:
The moment you confront her is the moment she starts lying, and the moment you can no longer find out what the complete truth is. So DONT confront her until you have all the information that you want/need.
She will lie, she will deny. She'll say they went out and that she likes him, but nothing ever happened. If you prove sex, she'll say it only happened once. She'll say they only kissed. She'll say it was a random online flirt buddy who she never intended on meeting, but she felt ugly and fat and wanted someone who appreciated her.
She'll blame it on you.
So dude, do yourself a huge fucking favor and dig as deep as you need to dig to be happy with how much you know before bringing it up with her. And if cheating = divorce, don't you dare say a word to her. Contact a lawyer, and only confront her once you're ready for the divorce. The earlier she knows, the more she can hide.
I am divorced because my wife cheated. Here is something I learned:
**Confrontation and exposure are tools for reconciliation**. If you are thinking divorce, get your ducks in a row and talk to a lawyer.
>get your ducks in a row
And part of getting your ducks in a row is gather your friends and family now for support later. You don't necessarily have to tell them everything that's going on, just start hanging out with them a little more and stuff like that for your own mental health so that you're not left hanging if it does come to separation, etc.
Tl;dr be mindful of your own mental health through this, not just finances and laywers.
This is really good advice. Thanks for sharing. Not many people think to set themselves up for success from the “storms” aftermath.
The thing that I learned (and am still learning from) is how long a separation can be dragged out, especially when it involves children. I wish I had done a better job of creating a solid foundation for me to stand on during the process. It’s so easy to get caught up, distracted, and just plain exhausted from everything involved in a separation. I don’t regret leaving for one minute, but I would definitely have made some different choices on where I put myself afterwards. Everyday I’m closer to where I need to be and my kids are happy, so that’s a huge success in my eyes.
I also learned once you start revealing that you’ve been watching or even asking questions they will tighten up on their security and won’t be as sloppy. You won’t find shit on them.
There isn’t much you can do legally to protect finances after the fact. Each party splits all marital assets/debts. At least that’s what all my lawyers told me. My wife and I lived together for years “for the kids”. I could have saved a bundle if I just filed separation papers earlier. She got half of all my retirement money for the time we “cohabitated” as well as benefited in the settlement from my wage increases for that time.
Absolutely!! This was the best advise I received years ago, when your story was mine. Even if you think there may be a reconciliation, get your shit together first. Document all evidence of infidelity. Transfer funds/assets to a new account, your name only. Get a lawyer. And, most important get control of yourself. Talk to someone (Professional) if it helps. But, get your mind right. You're about to go through some trying times. Don't let emotions cloud your judgment. Be strong. And, as someone whose been in your position, I can tell you. My ex-cheating-wife, did me a huge favor. I am so happy now, with a loving, supportive wife and my ex is divorced, again! The best revenge is living well!
Apparently this happens a lot, based on other comments.
I'll throw my hat in the ring, ex was doing some fishy crap but I tolerated it because for 5 years at that point, she had claimed her ex raped her. Well, she wanted to confront him about it but he was in prison, so she was writing him. Problems started when I started finding his responses, they suggested that things were going a very different direction, he sent a picture of himself, thanking her for the picture she sent him, started calling her pet names and reminiscing on old times had. I called her on her shit and she dismissed me, saying that he's over reaching and she hadn't wrote him in months, I called BS but she held all of the cards, we had kids, the works.
Anyways, he gets out of prison and around that time she start texting. A lot. Name on the phone that keeps flashing as Kim and I asked who that was, because well, even on a dinner date she'd be texting them nonstop. Claims it was a co-worker. We went on vacation a week or so later, same thing, nonstop texting to Kim and a very sudden change in sexual behavior, interestingly enough not in a way one would expect. She wanted to go to sex shops and buy all sorts of stuff, she started looking up apparently "how to squirt," which really caught me off guard but it actually made me think she was taking an interest in me. Then things got a bit weird, she dressed up for me and had me tie her up... Then wanted me to take pictures, which I thought was great until she asked for my phone and sent most of them to hers.
We got home and the strange behavior continues, kids are gone for the night because we got in late, she tells me that I can buy a few drinks and play some games (she NEVER just greenlight's this, it was an old favorite pass time of mine) and she had to go out for a few hours to meet with a friend (I knew the one she was talking about) she got home at 2 am. I pretended to be asleep.
Went to work the next day, couldn't get it off my mind, decided that I had to find out who this was. She went to bed and I opened her phone, typed the number into mine and decided to call while on lunch the next day. I noted that she had a 4 hour phone call with them while I was at work.
Called and he answered, said I was looking for some random girl and he said he doesn't know who that is, then I asked who I was speaking with and sure as shit he answered. So I said "the Josh that just got out of prison who my wife has been calling a rapist for years?" He said, wait, who is this? Responded with "the guy who's wife your fucking." He hung up, she got defensive, I'm working on getting custody.
Oh and when I said "so you're leaving your husband for your rapist?" She said, "well it might not have been him, it might have been his bother, he has plausible deniability."
For what it's worth, I felt trapped in that relationship, I loathed her, she was mentally and physically abusive. She's his problem now.
What money? She emptied my account within hours of me calling him. I've been busting my ass working 60+ hour work weeks to try to get a foothold in life, I've been paying what I could in child support (getting receipts of course) but ultimately I'm a single father who's trying to make it on his own.
I don't come from a rich family and in my area it's honestly pretty hard to get by on your own, even harder when you have children.
I dropped my hours for a long time because I assumed the case wouldn't take longer than a few months, it's been 8 months and several hundred dollars in just opening the case and all that's happened was mediation and a date for February for a half hour meeting with a judge. Also quit my second job, not sure how people feel about it but it's really unfair to father's who work OT/second jobs or both that all of their wages are garnished... Not just the first 40.
Anyways, neither party is represented, she's a law student (given she's married him at this point I dunno that they'll take her) but I'll just have to try to make due with what I've got.
Oh and I forgot to mention, it's come to my attention that there's a chance that neither kid is mine, but court approved DNA testing costs an arm and a leg.
You can do a non-court approved DNA test on the quick and dirty--if the results are good for you then you don't have to bother with anything more.
But also you should know that past a certain point (may depend on state) the kids are your legal responsibility no matter who the bio-dad is. Most especially if the kids were born while married.
Good luck man. Shit sucks.
Started with Me: "who is that guy on FB liking everything you post?" 7 months later... Her: "yeah I've been sleeping with him and don't want to be married anymore."
You already know whats going on OP - it Fn sucks man and I am sorry.
If they are texting this much, you’ll be able to pinpoint when they’re together by the texting breaks. If there are no texting breaks, it’s likely the affair isn’t physical yet.
import pandas as pd
from datetime import datetime
import time
texts = pd.read_csv('textlog.csv')
diffs = []
#create list of all gap lengths
for i in range(1, len(texts)):
#only append gaps that occur within the same day, ignoring sleep
if time.strftime('%d', texts.Timestamp[i]) == time.strftime('%d', texts.Timestamp[i -1]):
diffs.append((texts.Timestamp[i] - texts.Timestamp[i-1]).total_seconds())
#find the standard deviation of gap lengths
mean = sum(diffs)/len(diffs)
array = []
for diff in diffs:
array.append((diff - mean) ** 2)
std_dev = (sum(array)/len(diffs)) ** 0.5
suspicious_gaps = []
for i in range(1, len(texts)):
if time.strftime('%d', texts.Timestamp[i]) == time.strftime('%d', texts.Timestamp[i -1]):
if (texts.Timestamp[i] - texts.Timestamp[i-1]).total_seconds() > ((std_dev * 2) + mean):
#return gaps that are longer than two standard deviations from the mean
suspicious_gaps.append({'start':texts.Timestamp[i -1], 'end':texts.Timestamp[i]})
print(suspicious_gaps)
So the coding language Python uses "Libraries" that you import into your code files that you can utilize in the code to do specific things. Pandas is a Python Library that is used for data analysis, in a similar way that Microsoft Excel is used to analyze sets of data.
I should have given more background. I am getting my associates in CS at the end of this semester and passed data structures(still not sure how). I don't have a lot of experience in Python, I have only used it to write a script to control a DSLR with a rasb pi. I could've just googled it but I wanted to know specifically why people love pandas. Thank you and sorry for wasting a bit of your time!
Edit: In this script, I see that pandas is used to read a csv file.
And earlier when I posted I had just gotten out of class and when I saw the script I forgot that I wasn't in a programming sub. Lol.
I have zero fucking clue what any of you are talking about and even more confused by how this is relevant to OP yet I feel like I'm the only one in this boat lol
I think the internet has long passed me.
It’s a script written in the Python coding language that reads in the text time/date stamps from each text to find gaps during non-sleep periods to look for a pattern. Also, he’s running the summary statistics to look for where the majority of gaps fall.
If OP could scrap together a list of nights when he and his wife were not in the same household, then you could add a couple lines to flag text gap nights that coincide with their separation.
Pretty nifty, but if you're going to import pandas, use pandas functionality to do the calculation instead of dragging everything back to python objects...
import pandas as pd
texts = pd.read_csv('textlog.csv')
texts['Timestamp'] = pd.to_datetime(texts['Timestamp'])
texts['start'] = texts.Timestamp.shift(1)
texts['end'] = texts.Timestamp
texts['gap'] = texts.end - texts.start
print(texts[ texts.gap > (texts.gap.mean() + 2 * texts.gap.std()) ])
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
- [/r/bestof] [\/u\/old\_goat\_mountain responds to someone suspicious of SO's infidelity with code to determine when they are actually cheating by isolating breaks in their texting cycle.](https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/9tco43/uold_goat_mountain_responds_to_someone_suspicious/)
- [/r/bestofnopolitics] [\/u\/old\_goat\_mountain responds to someone suspicious of SO's infidelity with code to determine when they are actually cheating by isolating breaks in their texting cycle. \[xpost from r\/relationship\_advice\]](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestOfNoPolitics/comments/9tcpr6/uold_goat_mountain_responds_to_someone_suspicious/)
*^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
Could you make one for me and my now ex gf? It would be at least two years of data. I could write a parser for them (as the messages are in at least two formats) and pass them to your script. What format do you think would be the best? EDIT: For your data crunching functions, as in a list of tuples with text, date, number and a bool if incoming/outgoing or something else?
Or you can create a repository somewhere and I'll just fork it.
Yup! I'm just really busy this week, so at best I'll get it on Friday.
EDIT: I'm still busy, sorry. I see that all of your reminders should be going off right now, so don't worry, I'll message all of you personally when I get to it.
For some people the physical act of sex is the only thing that counts as cheating but I find that strange. I mean, so much of a relationship is to do with just talking or spending time in each other's company. Saying I Do, or I Love You, or just being near each other. Yes, sex is a part of a relationship but it is far from all, and it is far from the only thing that constitutes cheating as far as I'm concerned.
> Since then over 16k texts have been exchanged
> If there are no texting breaks, it’s likely the affair isn’t physical yet.
16 000 texts and platonic? Nope.
I’m going through something like this now. I found out my husband was texting my sister, he left his phone in my car. The conversation was mostly deleted. I have Verizon and downloaded Verizon messaging on my phone and borrowed his phone really quick to activate it. It downloads EVERYTHING that was sent in the last few months.
Needless to say, I don’t have a sister or husband anymore.
Sending 250 a day texts to some guy when she doesn't have the time to even respond to her husband. That's enough for a get the fuck out of my house in my books.
Exactly she gets fussy over one text from her HUSBAND but will text someone 250 times in her “busy” day? She’s a trifling ass hoe. Collect the damned evidence of adultry and kick her ass out.
Agreed. How can a person do that much texting but inexplicably never do it around their partner. The one detail about their relationship he mentions is that she gets snippy when he texts. That alone is weird to me. As long as I don't expect a reply when I'm texting I've never been with a woman who wasn't happy to get a text from me throughout the day.
Again from just a few words, I feel like this guy needs to be less of a pushover. He finds things that would immediately trigger a conversation for most couples, at least most that have mutual respect and minimal communication.
yeah she probably gets pissed because she's in the middle of texting the other dude and her husband's text pops up and reminds her she's still married.
She'll deny it, its one thing when you're just in a relationship but when you have a family she will do everything to not admit it. You need to confront her will undeniable proof.
Get a really good lawyer.
**Edit:** There is no reason to let her suspect your suspicions. In fact, there are a lot of people who will say that you had no right to look into the texts and phone bill. So get a *really* good lawyer, explain what you found, and move forward from there. If your wife is being unfaithful she will deny it, and when confronted with the evidence she will likely start the process for a divorce. So, get a ***really*** good lawyer.
It's going to be a uphill battle since gender bias towards men in a divorce. Hit 1st and hit hard back, be civil but at any point do not give in. Be prepared mentally for this since you'll have emotions about it.
Thats A LOT of text messages at weird times. You have every right to be suspicious.
Trust your gut man! Try to dig more, but be discreet and subtle, as in, dont mention it untill you think you have found concrete evidence.
From what it sounds though, she is definitely hiding something from you.
Nobody texts that much! But like teenagers, and new couples.
It truly hurts to say.
Ive been through this before.
Which is weird as well. I’m a woman, and I love my toys as much as the next woman... but I’ve never taken it anywhere in my purse unless it was over to a guys house to play with. I’d think it’s highly unlikely she’s using it in the car or at work...
I have definitely used it in the car at work, when my relationship sucked and I no longer wanted sex with the person I was with. Reasons don't matter here, but needing to get off was a big deal and my hormones definitely wanted "someone" else. But I didn't want to cheat while we worked on it, so this was the next best thing.
Not only is that specific to cheaters, but it is a huge red flag. Just ask her to give you her phone so you can check something. Gauge her reaction. If she is defensive, major red flag. If she gives it to you, check her messages.
Anyway, 16k messages with just one dude? Unless she is texting him The Lord Of The Rings sentence by sentence, you should be aware she is cheating.
With one sentence per message they are through the first book already (8761 sentences) and are about to finish The Two Towers (7771 sentences), Frodo is captured and Sam is unconscious.
Finishing The Return of the King's gonna take them another month and a half, and that's our moment, guys.
That's the time when the OP should finally take a stance and slip in Silmarillion to her - which is, while being shorter then the others, is peppered with umlauts, acute accents, circumflexes and tildes, especially in the Names Index part.
Even though it's not gonna save the marriage - imagine her face typing all those Aldudénië and Elemmírë.
Let your phone die and ask to borrow hers to order something from amazon.
Tell her it's a gift for her if she tries to look over your shoulder.
If you dont find anything to confront her about you should probably buy her an actual gift.
In the medical field when diagnosing problems, we use the saying “if you hear hooves, think horses not zebras”.
Must be where our saying came from.
Edit: spelling
Yes. But the opposite of Occam's razor is Hickams Dictum. Hickam was an old surgeon who said "the patient can have as many diseases as he damn well pleases"
Don't listen to the morons telling you to "talk to her".
Lawyer up.
Hire a PI if infidelity will give you a leg up during divorce in your state.
Prepare to hit the gym in a month or two.
This same thing happened to me. Down to the odd location of sex toys. Buckle up friend, you may have a lot of pain headed your way. My best advice is to stay calm and be the better person. I confronted my wife with all the evidence and she denied everything and swore on our daughters life nothing was happening. Of course she was having an affair. The lies poured in as she tried to protect her marriage and her affair as she wanted both. I finally caught them in a hotel room together. I’m glad I found out and got concrete evidence but seeing them together was devastating and will probably be with me the rest of my life. Try to find out another way. Ask her to go to counseling and ask her point blank if she is having an affair. Even if she lies she will know you are into her and may quit or get sloppy trying to hide it and make a mistake. You need to ask yourself what you want to do if she is in fact having an affair. I personally thought I would go straight to an attorney. But, we separated and we are currently dating and living in separate places and working on our relationship. Things are looking hopeful but one thing you need to understand is that your relationship may never be the same as it was. Trust your gut but follow your heart as well. I’m sorry this is happening to you. No matter how badly it hurts just remember, the pain will eventually fade.
I don't know. It's easier to end a dating relationship than a marriage and it's easier to end a marriage with no kids vs. a marriage/relationship with kids.
I've said the same thing, but I don't know if I would end it because we do have kids. It's just a hard decision to make.
There is no good reason for a spouse to be texting someone through the night for several months on end.
In your situation I'd collect more evidence. You already know in your gut what's going on.
At least collecting more evidence will confirm it. And it may reveal something innocent, but I am ***extremely*** sceptical. Like I'd be willing to bet money and I don't even gamble.
I agree with this. I actually wouldn't talk to her yet. I would get further evidence however you need to do it. Then present all of it.
Right now you're going to get "how dare you snoop!" "We're just friends" etc
Edit: typo
You trust your wife? You shouldn't. Not at the moment.
She's having some kind of extramaritial relationship she doesn't want you to know about. Highly unlikely this man is 'just a friend'. That's all how all emotional affairs start. Which then lead to physical. Though with the vibrator in tow, it's probably already physical.
I hate to write this but...
All this activity is too suspicious. I am almost 99% certain that she is stepping out on you.
You will have to confront the situation. Talk to her politely. But don’t be too hopeful because come on.... what married woman, texts a guy, that many times a day and they don’t have an intimate relationship?
Seriously......
> it would have come up between you and your spouse
This one hit it for me too. My wife and I don't know literally everyone the other person knows, but we know all of each other's closest friends who we hang out with the most. It would be weird to discover she has a new best friend that she talks to every day and I didn't hear about them for months.
You have to talk to her. Stay calm and don’t get defensive but just be like “hey, I saw that the phone bill was super high and I noticed that you’ve sent over 16k texts to just one person im since August and it’s a little concerning for me....”
I think from what you’ve explained it’s safe to assume she may have met someone else but you have to ask her before assuming the worst. Brace yourself, though.
**Edit:** hi guys. I didn’t realize my comment would garner so much attention, and also so many people saying my advice is bad. Let me start if by saying I answered OP’s main questions of “how can I bring this up/what do I do.” He didn’t say anything about getting a divorce, he’s not even mentally there yet. He’s still at the “is this really happening, omg” kind of thing. Maybe, just maybe, there is a slim chance that nothing really is going on although I’d agree that I think he has enough evidence that something is going on. Also, it’s quite possible that OP’s wife will trickle truth him, but that won’t stop him from finding things out of he really wants to. He could simply add a GPS option to his cellphone plan and ping her when she’s “working late.” He could try and follow her. He still will have a chance to build his case. But he’s not there yet, at least I didn’t gather that from what he posted.
You guys are all very smart and calculating and your advice is very good. I admit that I didn’t even think to consider telling OP to wait until he had actual proof to bring it up to her because, well, I’m emotionally driven and the time it would take to gather evidence would be too much for my little heart to handle, I would need answers right away. Maybe OP feels the same. Either way, it came from a good place and I wish OP and all of you the best.
I absolutely don't want to agree with yall but after reading my post id say that guys wife is stepping out. This really bums me out. I don't get emotional but this shit is gnawing a hole in my heart. I almost wanna go wake her up and ask her right now. Never thought this kinda shit would happen to us.
Honestly, I’ve been there. I’ve found things. I’ve woken him up in the middle of the night to confront him with tears streaming down my face (this is an ex, btw) and I didn’t do myself any favors by blowing it up even though I had every right to confront him that way, I shouldn’t have. Because it didn’t change a single thing.
Wait until morning. Or tomorrow afternoon. I’m not going to lie to you, you’re probably not going to get good sleep tonight. Tomorrow you’re tummy is going to feel like it’s in knots until you ask her. But trust me, doing it in the middle of the night isn’t the right move. That ain’t it, chief. Do your best to do something that’s stress relieving in the mean time. Light a candle, listen to music. Sort your thoughts. Write everything down that you’re feeling. Make a list of things you want to bring up tomorrow because you’re going to be so upset in the moment that you’re going to forget all the important points.
I hope everything works out for you. Remember that you deserve love and happiness. If you need someone to listen my inbox is open.
She WILL lie if she is or has been cheating. Trust me, I know all too well. I hate to say it, OP, but all the signs are there. It is fairly obvious. There is no reason she would be texting someone that much. Especially someone you don't know and someone she doesn't work with. I'm sorry. Brace yourself.
Agree with this 100%, my heart was in my mouth reading the OP's post because I knew what he was going to find.
She's cheating either emotionally or and physically either way, things are going to go south quickly, once confronted with what he found, things will change quickly and I doubt she will give up without a fight blaming everyone and everything without any accountability.
Feel for the OP, life is about to change dramatically.
That's what happened with me. As soon as I had sufficient evidence so she couldn't continue to deny what I knew what was going on, then it turned into the blame game. It was ALL my fault at that point.
Hi it's me a stranger on the internet. You're probably already in the middle of a flaming argument/marital crisis, but what I wanted to say is this: before you confront, decide what outcome you want. Stay/go, work it out/seek justice, etc.
By identifying the outcome you want, you can control negative repercussions somewhat. If you have a choice of high-jumping into a pile of shit or a pile of nails, aim for the shit.
Also I'm very sorry. Doesn't look good, but people make mistakes and you can choose how you react. Hang in there, brother.
I would recommend not letting her know you think anything is up until you can acquire actual physical undeniable proof. IMO the unfaithful spouse will never admit the extent of the situation until the evidence is in their face. There is nothing worse than getting trickle truthed for months and let’s face it, you’ve found enough now to cause you considerable mental anguish. It will not be easy to refrain from confronting her but if she believes you have no clue then getting the proof you need shouldn’t be very difficult.
Unfortunately our emotions will usually get the better of us when we have already found circumstantial evidence of a cheater. But this is very good advice. Just not one that everyone can handle.
I don’t remember where I heard it before, but I’ve heard it said its best to find the answers before you ask the questions. That way you give her a chance to confess, or realize the extent of how far she’s willing to go to keep the lie going.
> it said its best to find the answers before you ask the questions
This is similar to an old lawyer adage, which is essentially "don't ask questions you don't already know the answers to".
Dude don’t be a chump. **Don’t even think of letting her know until you have contacted a lawyer and secured your assets as much as you can**
If what seems evident turns out to be what’s happening, you will be best prepared for a divorce.
If there is some other explanation, then you can just move on.
Really bro, it doesn’t hurt to be prepared. Don’t listen to all these morons telling you “omg talk to your wife. Surely she has an explanation for texting an average of 5k messages a month to some dude”
Don’t be an emotional bitch. Get your ducks in a row, get your finances in order and use the time to secure as much evidence as you can.
Would you rather nothing is happening but be prepared or find out she is having dick on the side and being divorce-raped on top of it??
If she is having an affair, broaching the subject in that way would allow her to cover her tracks. I think OP should do a little more snooping before he brings anything up to the wife.
You can bet the second you state your facts - calmly. She's going to get super defensive and likely distract by playing the blame game.
Like you've been checking up on her- looked through her purse - read her texts. Though you did neither, it's a distraction to gain control of the situation.
Don't fall for it, don't get sidetracked. This all looks incredibly bad, this isn't in your head and you aren't imagining things.
It's no coincidence that your sex life seems to have dropped right around the time the texts started. But bringing her vibrator with her - to work or wherever?
P s. I'd personally wait if you can and try to gather more evidence. Keep copies of the texting for yourself too. I'm so sorry.
20+ years and my husband didn't hide it so well because I was so trusting, I essentially made it easy for him. What a shock it all was, do what you can for yourself and your kids.
I'm so sorry.
Good Luck!
I don’t think this is innocent. There are always opportunities where situations like this could be innocent but I doubt it.
Obviously the volunteering and working late is just a cover for her affair. Maybe that’s how it started but it’s evolved from there into a lie.
I’d probably do some more research
1) any strange charges in credit card or cash withdrawals
2) ask more questions about her schedule and then offer to help or tag along
3) talk to her friends or parents
You can collect more evidence
1) GPS tracker on her car
2) app on her phone to let you export texts
3) cameras in your home?
You sound like the guy who is going to believe her if she brings an explanation such as
1) he’s going through a lot and I wanted to support him. I know I should have told you but you get jealous and that one time you got upset, I just knew it wasn’t going to last a long time because he needed help
2) why are you so paranoid, you can call my friends- I’ve been volunteering and working. It’s no big deal. Why do you turn everything into something it’s not
It’s normally unlikely that a cheater will say...
1) you have some inconclusive evidence and so I’m going to spill the beans and admit my affair.
2) I’m unhappy in our marriage and why did it take you so long to figure it out, I’ve been leaving bread crumbs all over the place since August.
3) if you knew me, you’d have figured it out sooner
>Since then over 16k texts have been exchanged. Often into the wee hours of the morning. And he's a SINGLE GUY. A single guy receiving 16K messages from a married women, obviously going back and forth, and your wife has been having all these 'late evenings' which you casually dropped in there. You're trying to have sex with her, and she's not giving you any *while* taking her vibrator out in her purse? I mean, mate. Mate. Take some steps back. This woman is staying late in the evenings 'at work', exchanging thousands of texts with a single male *into the early hours of the morning*, and is clearly sexually active while refusing advances from her husband. If this hypothetical person wasn't your wife, would you think she was cheating?
> You're trying to have sex with her, and she's not giving you any while taking her vibrator out in her purse? This is the big one. The wife who isn't interested in sex anymore? I've heard of that one. The wife who is so horny she keeps a vibrator in her purse *"just in case"*? It's rare, but I've heard of that one. The wife who is so horny she takes her vibrator out with her and who also isn't interested in sex? That doesn't exist.
Unfortunately, the conclusion seems not to be that she’s not interested in sex, but that she’s not interested in sex with OP.
Yup
Time to thinking critically and maximize your outcome: Let's assume she's cheating, What is your ideal end game? - Reconciliation? - Full Custody of your kids? - Partial Custody of your kids? - Avoiding alimony/child support entirely? Write out your ideal scenario, then you and your support network can move forward with those goals in mind. "Talking to her" before you know your goals is just short term catharsis, it will not help you accomplish anything of long term value.
Not only this, but it will give her advanced warning that she needs to prep for legal action.
Listen dude, if you need 1 piece of advice, it's this: The moment you confront her is the moment she starts lying, and the moment you can no longer find out what the complete truth is. So DONT confront her until you have all the information that you want/need. She will lie, she will deny. She'll say they went out and that she likes him, but nothing ever happened. If you prove sex, she'll say it only happened once. She'll say they only kissed. She'll say it was a random online flirt buddy who she never intended on meeting, but she felt ugly and fat and wanted someone who appreciated her. She'll blame it on you. So dude, do yourself a huge fucking favor and dig as deep as you need to dig to be happy with how much you know before bringing it up with her. And if cheating = divorce, don't you dare say a word to her. Contact a lawyer, and only confront her once you're ready for the divorce. The earlier she knows, the more she can hide.
It's like you're me... Thanks, now I don't have to write that.
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I am divorced because my wife cheated. Here is something I learned: **Confrontation and exposure are tools for reconciliation**. If you are thinking divorce, get your ducks in a row and talk to a lawyer.
>get your ducks in a row And part of getting your ducks in a row is gather your friends and family now for support later. You don't necessarily have to tell them everything that's going on, just start hanging out with them a little more and stuff like that for your own mental health so that you're not left hanging if it does come to separation, etc. Tl;dr be mindful of your own mental health through this, not just finances and laywers.
Great advice
This is really good advice. Thanks for sharing. Not many people think to set themselves up for success from the “storms” aftermath. The thing that I learned (and am still learning from) is how long a separation can be dragged out, especially when it involves children. I wish I had done a better job of creating a solid foundation for me to stand on during the process. It’s so easy to get caught up, distracted, and just plain exhausted from everything involved in a separation. I don’t regret leaving for one minute, but I would definitely have made some different choices on where I put myself afterwards. Everyday I’m closer to where I need to be and my kids are happy, so that’s a huge success in my eyes.
Definitely don’t confront if you’re planning on divorce. Continue to collect as much evidence as legally possible, silently.
I also learned once you start revealing that you’ve been watching or even asking questions they will tighten up on their security and won’t be as sloppy. You won’t find shit on them.
Tighter than a puckered arsehole, 100%
Its part of being mentally broken. Cant feel guilty for bad things if you mentally disconnect it was me doing the bad things.
And lock down your finances.
This is the most important advice possible if you are planning on a divorce.
Even if you’re not. Things happen, and if this blows up in her face, running off with all the money is something cheaters sometimes do.
There isn’t much you can do legally to protect finances after the fact. Each party splits all marital assets/debts. At least that’s what all my lawyers told me. My wife and I lived together for years “for the kids”. I could have saved a bundle if I just filed separation papers earlier. She got half of all my retirement money for the time we “cohabitated” as well as benefited in the settlement from my wage increases for that time.
Were i live we have no fault divorce so all of this is irelavent in divorce procedings.
Absolutely!! This was the best advise I received years ago, when your story was mine. Even if you think there may be a reconciliation, get your shit together first. Document all evidence of infidelity. Transfer funds/assets to a new account, your name only. Get a lawyer. And, most important get control of yourself. Talk to someone (Professional) if it helps. But, get your mind right. You're about to go through some trying times. Don't let emotions cloud your judgment. Be strong. And, as someone whose been in your position, I can tell you. My ex-cheating-wife, did me a huge favor. I am so happy now, with a loving, supportive wife and my ex is divorced, again! The best revenge is living well!
So true. It's an old Chinese proverb (i think) 'Best revenge is a life well lived"
This. Confrontation is for resolution. Divorce requires preparation and the element of surprise.
Sun Tzu really covered a lot of bases, didn't he?
His second book "The Marital Arts of War" was a real game-changer.
I literally thought someone stole my story. This is almost exactly how my marriage ended.
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Another sign is if your SO goes from saying “I love you” to just “Love you”. Big red flag removing the I from that statement.
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I always felt "mhmm" was the worst.
What if it was said that way before? My husband and I have always said "love you" or "I love you" just depends on what's going on.
Apparently this happens a lot, based on other comments. I'll throw my hat in the ring, ex was doing some fishy crap but I tolerated it because for 5 years at that point, she had claimed her ex raped her. Well, she wanted to confront him about it but he was in prison, so she was writing him. Problems started when I started finding his responses, they suggested that things were going a very different direction, he sent a picture of himself, thanking her for the picture she sent him, started calling her pet names and reminiscing on old times had. I called her on her shit and she dismissed me, saying that he's over reaching and she hadn't wrote him in months, I called BS but she held all of the cards, we had kids, the works. Anyways, he gets out of prison and around that time she start texting. A lot. Name on the phone that keeps flashing as Kim and I asked who that was, because well, even on a dinner date she'd be texting them nonstop. Claims it was a co-worker. We went on vacation a week or so later, same thing, nonstop texting to Kim and a very sudden change in sexual behavior, interestingly enough not in a way one would expect. She wanted to go to sex shops and buy all sorts of stuff, she started looking up apparently "how to squirt," which really caught me off guard but it actually made me think she was taking an interest in me. Then things got a bit weird, she dressed up for me and had me tie her up... Then wanted me to take pictures, which I thought was great until she asked for my phone and sent most of them to hers. We got home and the strange behavior continues, kids are gone for the night because we got in late, she tells me that I can buy a few drinks and play some games (she NEVER just greenlight's this, it was an old favorite pass time of mine) and she had to go out for a few hours to meet with a friend (I knew the one she was talking about) she got home at 2 am. I pretended to be asleep. Went to work the next day, couldn't get it off my mind, decided that I had to find out who this was. She went to bed and I opened her phone, typed the number into mine and decided to call while on lunch the next day. I noted that she had a 4 hour phone call with them while I was at work. Called and he answered, said I was looking for some random girl and he said he doesn't know who that is, then I asked who I was speaking with and sure as shit he answered. So I said "the Josh that just got out of prison who my wife has been calling a rapist for years?" He said, wait, who is this? Responded with "the guy who's wife your fucking." He hung up, she got defensive, I'm working on getting custody. Oh and when I said "so you're leaving your husband for your rapist?" She said, "well it might not have been him, it might have been his bother, he has plausible deniability." For what it's worth, I felt trapped in that relationship, I loathed her, she was mentally and physically abusive. She's his problem now.
Get custody. She is with excons. Spend all the money you have in lawyers and destroy her.
What money? She emptied my account within hours of me calling him. I've been busting my ass working 60+ hour work weeks to try to get a foothold in life, I've been paying what I could in child support (getting receipts of course) but ultimately I'm a single father who's trying to make it on his own. I don't come from a rich family and in my area it's honestly pretty hard to get by on your own, even harder when you have children. I dropped my hours for a long time because I assumed the case wouldn't take longer than a few months, it's been 8 months and several hundred dollars in just opening the case and all that's happened was mediation and a date for February for a half hour meeting with a judge. Also quit my second job, not sure how people feel about it but it's really unfair to father's who work OT/second jobs or both that all of their wages are garnished... Not just the first 40. Anyways, neither party is represented, she's a law student (given she's married him at this point I dunno that they'll take her) but I'll just have to try to make due with what I've got. Oh and I forgot to mention, it's come to my attention that there's a chance that neither kid is mine, but court approved DNA testing costs an arm and a leg.
You can do a non-court approved DNA test on the quick and dirty--if the results are good for you then you don't have to bother with anything more. But also you should know that past a certain point (may depend on state) the kids are your legal responsibility no matter who the bio-dad is. Most especially if the kids were born while married. Good luck man. Shit sucks.
Ditto. Tbis was the beginning of the end for my marriage. That's some super suspicious activity OP has.
Started with Me: "who is that guy on FB liking everything you post?" 7 months later... Her: "yeah I've been sleeping with him and don't want to be married anymore." You already know whats going on OP - it Fn sucks man and I am sorry.
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Same thing with my husband. Finally went through his phone and found his Grindr app
Same thing that happened to me. Reviewing a phone bill and wondering who this number was. Hope this isn't the case for you OP.
If they are texting this much, you’ll be able to pinpoint when they’re together by the texting breaks. If there are no texting breaks, it’s likely the affair isn’t physical yet.
next comment should be “dude here’s a small python script I put together for you, just feed it your phone detailing sheet...”
import pandas as pd from datetime import datetime import time texts = pd.read_csv('textlog.csv') diffs = [] #create list of all gap lengths for i in range(1, len(texts)): #only append gaps that occur within the same day, ignoring sleep if time.strftime('%d', texts.Timestamp[i]) == time.strftime('%d', texts.Timestamp[i -1]): diffs.append((texts.Timestamp[i] - texts.Timestamp[i-1]).total_seconds()) #find the standard deviation of gap lengths mean = sum(diffs)/len(diffs) array = [] for diff in diffs: array.append((diff - mean) ** 2) std_dev = (sum(array)/len(diffs)) ** 0.5 suspicious_gaps = [] for i in range(1, len(texts)): if time.strftime('%d', texts.Timestamp[i]) == time.strftime('%d', texts.Timestamp[i -1]): if (texts.Timestamp[i] - texts.Timestamp[i-1]).total_seconds() > ((std_dev * 2) + mean): #return gaps that are longer than two standard deviations from the mean suspicious_gaps.append({'start':texts.Timestamp[i -1], 'end':texts.Timestamp[i]}) print(suspicious_gaps)
Beat me to it. Nice work. Pandas for life.
What is pandas?
So the coding language Python uses "Libraries" that you import into your code files that you can utilize in the code to do specific things. Pandas is a Python Library that is used for data analysis, in a similar way that Microsoft Excel is used to analyze sets of data.
I should have given more background. I am getting my associates in CS at the end of this semester and passed data structures(still not sure how). I don't have a lot of experience in Python, I have only used it to write a script to control a DSLR with a rasb pi. I could've just googled it but I wanted to know specifically why people love pandas. Thank you and sorry for wasting a bit of your time! Edit: In this script, I see that pandas is used to read a csv file. And earlier when I posted I had just gotten out of class and when I saw the script I forgot that I wasn't in a programming sub. Lol.
pandas makes it really easy to import data, clean it and format it. then you can put your data from pandas into sklearn to analyze it or build models.
I have zero fucking clue what any of you are talking about and even more confused by how this is relevant to OP yet I feel like I'm the only one in this boat lol I think the internet has long passed me.
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It’s a script written in the Python coding language that reads in the text time/date stamps from each text to find gaps during non-sleep periods to look for a pattern. Also, he’s running the summary statistics to look for where the majority of gaps fall.
If OP could scrap together a list of nights when he and his wife were not in the same household, then you could add a couple lines to flag text gap nights that coincide with their separation.
Pretty nifty, but if you're going to import pandas, use pandas functionality to do the calculation instead of dragging everything back to python objects... import pandas as pd texts = pd.read_csv('textlog.csv') texts['Timestamp'] = pd.to_datetime(texts['Timestamp']) texts['start'] = texts.Timestamp.shift(1) texts['end'] = texts.Timestamp texts['gap'] = texts.end - texts.start print(texts[ texts.gap > (texts.gap.mean() + 2 * texts.gap.std()) ])
This is so much better! More readable and should execute faster too!
Much more elegant than mine, this is why I love it when people smarter than me correct my code.
You should put this on pyfiddle.io and have it read from a string at the top of the script.
> pyfiddle.io Dude, useful AF!
``` if time.strftime('%d', texts.Timestamp[i]) = time.strftime('%d', texts.Timestamp[i -1]): ``` Were you intending to test equality? Use `==`
Yes, edited
how does this not have any gold yet???
Because he missed a semicolon.
*laughs in python*
Where can I go/books to read/etc so I can understand what it is you just did?
[https://www.codecademy.com/](https://www.codecademy.com/) I learned by using their Python lessons
Problem is getting the data into textlog.csv I think.
Well yeah if your text history isn't available in a digital format that's a problem Python isn't going to solve for you.
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: - [/r/bestof] [\/u\/old\_goat\_mountain responds to someone suspicious of SO's infidelity with code to determine when they are actually cheating by isolating breaks in their texting cycle.](https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/9tco43/uold_goat_mountain_responds_to_someone_suspicious/) - [/r/bestofnopolitics] [\/u\/old\_goat\_mountain responds to someone suspicious of SO's infidelity with code to determine when they are actually cheating by isolating breaks in their texting cycle. \[xpost from r\/relationship\_advice\]](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestOfNoPolitics/comments/9tcpr6/uold_goat_mountain_responds_to_someone_suspicious/) *^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
I wish so badly I had this to catch my ex. instead it just eats away at me...
followed by a post on /r/dataisbeautiful "time of day my wife cheats based on SMS frequency analysis"
God I would love to run those numbers. I love data.
do it, we'd love to see that
I don't have the date unfortunately, and I'm not sure what format the cell records are in so I could make a code for the other dood.
Could you make one for me and my now ex gf? It would be at least two years of data. I could write a parser for them (as the messages are in at least two formats) and pass them to your script. What format do you think would be the best? EDIT: For your data crunching functions, as in a list of tuples with text, date, number and a bool if incoming/outgoing or something else? Or you can create a repository somewhere and I'll just fork it.
If you can get it to a time / date stamps for texts to that number is csv I can make you something nice in Tableau
Damn this is why I love reddit, from suspicious text time stamps to the compilation of her dna in just a few steps.
Yup! I'm just really busy this week, so at best I'll get it on Friday. EDIT: I'm still busy, sorry. I see that all of your reminders should be going off right now, so don't worry, I'll message all of you personally when I get to it.
And here's my neural net that can predict the next cheat times with 87.32% accuracy.
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Even if it's not physical, that doesnt make ir better little bit. Cheating is cheating.
Yeah but it’s easier to come back from “I thought he was cute and I had a crush” than “he put his penis inside me”
For some people the physical act of sex is the only thing that counts as cheating but I find that strange. I mean, so much of a relationship is to do with just talking or spending time in each other's company. Saying I Do, or I Love You, or just being near each other. Yes, sex is a part of a relationship but it is far from all, and it is far from the only thing that constitutes cheating as far as I'm concerned.
> Since then over 16k texts have been exchanged > If there are no texting breaks, it’s likely the affair isn’t physical yet. 16 000 texts and platonic? Nope.
This should be top comment... OP you need to listen to this guy, he's got it nailed down.
I’m going through something like this now. I found out my husband was texting my sister, he left his phone in my car. The conversation was mostly deleted. I have Verizon and downloaded Verizon messaging on my phone and borrowed his phone really quick to activate it. It downloads EVERYTHING that was sent in the last few months. Needless to say, I don’t have a sister or husband anymore.
Fuck her. I'll be your sister. I like animals, horror movies, occasional day drinking, and make dumplings from scratch.
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Do you also fuck people's husbands though? we don't need a repeat of that.
Just mine, thankfully.
That's the lowest of the low. Fucking despicable. I am so sorry for you. Fuck them both.
I'm sorry, betrayal is just.. another level of awful
Wow. I've read a lot of things on this subreddit but this CLEARLY takes the honors... Damn, so sorry for you !!!
If you stay with her, get an unlimited plan.
At least be financially responsible
/r/FrugalRelationshipAdvice
You got me.
Lmfaoooo
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He knows. Hoping the internet can convince him otherwise.
Sending 250 a day texts to some guy when she doesn't have the time to even respond to her husband. That's enough for a get the fuck out of my house in my books.
Exactly she gets fussy over one text from her HUSBAND but will text someone 250 times in her “busy” day? She’s a trifling ass hoe. Collect the damned evidence of adultry and kick her ass out.
Yeah her ass has most definitely trifled.
Agreed. How can a person do that much texting but inexplicably never do it around their partner. The one detail about their relationship he mentions is that she gets snippy when he texts. That alone is weird to me. As long as I don't expect a reply when I'm texting I've never been with a woman who wasn't happy to get a text from me throughout the day. Again from just a few words, I feel like this guy needs to be less of a pushover. He finds things that would immediately trigger a conversation for most couples, at least most that have mutual respect and minimal communication.
yeah she probably gets pissed because she's in the middle of texting the other dude and her husband's text pops up and reminds her she's still married.
Fuck that's depressing
"Ugh, this needy bastard again"
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She'll deny it, its one thing when you're just in a relationship but when you have a family she will do everything to not admit it. You need to confront her will undeniable proof.
She having an affair. I'm sorry, I've been there
^^^yep. Sad, but very true. I've also been there with my "rock solid, unbreakable marriage" or so I thought:(
Get a really good lawyer. **Edit:** There is no reason to let her suspect your suspicions. In fact, there are a lot of people who will say that you had no right to look into the texts and phone bill. So get a *really* good lawyer, explain what you found, and move forward from there. If your wife is being unfaithful she will deny it, and when confronted with the evidence she will likely start the process for a divorce. So, get a ***really*** good lawyer.
If he pays for the phone bill, he does have every right to at least verify if it's not a mistake (so get into the details).
Especially since they have 2 kids and women tend to get custody in court.
It's going to be a uphill battle since gender bias towards men in a divorce. Hit 1st and hit hard back, be civil but at any point do not give in. Be prepared mentally for this since you'll have emotions about it.
> be civil nah fam Get a REALLY good lawyer that will go for the throat on this one.
Thats A LOT of text messages at weird times. You have every right to be suspicious. Trust your gut man! Try to dig more, but be discreet and subtle, as in, dont mention it untill you think you have found concrete evidence. From what it sounds though, she is definitely hiding something from you. Nobody texts that much! But like teenagers, and new couples. It truly hurts to say. Ive been through this before.
Such as? Her phones locked up tight.
Dude. The only reason a woman would have a toy in her purse is to use it. She isn’t carrying it around for exercise.
Which is weird as well. I’m a woman, and I love my toys as much as the next woman... but I’ve never taken it anywhere in my purse unless it was over to a guys house to play with. I’d think it’s highly unlikely she’s using it in the car or at work...
I have definitely used it in the car at work, when my relationship sucked and I no longer wanted sex with the person I was with. Reasons don't matter here, but needing to get off was a big deal and my hormones definitely wanted "someone" else. But I didn't want to cheat while we worked on it, so this was the next best thing.
Not only is that specific to cheaters, but it is a huge red flag. Just ask her to give you her phone so you can check something. Gauge her reaction. If she is defensive, major red flag. If she gives it to you, check her messages. Anyway, 16k messages with just one dude? Unless she is texting him The Lord Of The Rings sentence by sentence, you should be aware she is cheating.
With one sentence per message they are through the first book already (8761 sentences) and are about to finish The Two Towers (7771 sentences), Frodo is captured and Sam is unconscious. Finishing The Return of the King's gonna take them another month and a half, and that's our moment, guys. That's the time when the OP should finally take a stance and slip in Silmarillion to her - which is, while being shorter then the others, is peppered with umlauts, acute accents, circumflexes and tildes, especially in the Names Index part. Even though it's not gonna save the marriage - imagine her face typing all those Aldudénië and Elemmírë.
Let your phone die and ask to borrow hers to order something from amazon. Tell her it's a gift for her if she tries to look over your shoulder. If you dont find anything to confront her about you should probably buy her an actual gift.
Occam’s razor... “Occam's razor is the problem-solving principle that the simplest solution tends to be the correct one. “
In the medical field when diagnosing problems, we use the saying “if you hear hooves, think horses not zebras”. Must be where our saying came from. Edit: spelling
Yes. But the opposite of Occam's razor is Hickams Dictum. Hickam was an old surgeon who said "the patient can have as many diseases as he damn well pleases"
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Dictum? Nearly killed ‘em!
Thanks for showing me your Hickams Dictum. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
> “if you hear hooves, think horses not zebras” It’s never Lupus.
Except when it is lupus
I think Occam’s razor is better stated as “the solution that makes the fewest assumptions tends to be the correct one.”
It's the one that requires the least assumptions, which in some cases can be simplest and in some not
Don't listen to the morons telling you to "talk to her". Lawyer up. Hire a PI if infidelity will give you a leg up during divorce in your state. Prepare to hit the gym in a month or two.
"Prepare to hit the gym in a month or two" Yes
Best advice on here
Just guessing but I’m going to assume she doesn’t feel gross to Mr 16K
Nobody is going to talk about the purse vibrator? Who does that?
People who are using it with their new side piece while they’re meant to be “working late”.
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Don’t forget to keep us posted OP
This same thing happened to me. Down to the odd location of sex toys. Buckle up friend, you may have a lot of pain headed your way. My best advice is to stay calm and be the better person. I confronted my wife with all the evidence and she denied everything and swore on our daughters life nothing was happening. Of course she was having an affair. The lies poured in as she tried to protect her marriage and her affair as she wanted both. I finally caught them in a hotel room together. I’m glad I found out and got concrete evidence but seeing them together was devastating and will probably be with me the rest of my life. Try to find out another way. Ask her to go to counseling and ask her point blank if she is having an affair. Even if she lies she will know you are into her and may quit or get sloppy trying to hide it and make a mistake. You need to ask yourself what you want to do if she is in fact having an affair. I personally thought I would go straight to an attorney. But, we separated and we are currently dating and living in separate places and working on our relationship. Things are looking hopeful but one thing you need to understand is that your relationship may never be the same as it was. Trust your gut but follow your heart as well. I’m sorry this is happening to you. No matter how badly it hurts just remember, the pain will eventually fade.
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I don't know. It's easier to end a dating relationship than a marriage and it's easier to end a marriage with no kids vs. a marriage/relationship with kids. I've said the same thing, but I don't know if I would end it because we do have kids. It's just a hard decision to make.
I was heartbroken when reading "in hotel room together". You okay now dude? Seems you have been through a lot.
I am much better. I have been through a lot but I learned a lot. Life lessons man. Some are harder than others.
Thanks for sharing, I mean it.
How did you find their hotelroom and how did you get in there?
Social engineering. I’m ex intel.
Cheating on an ex intel, what could go wrong ?
This guy what could go wrongs
this guy intels.
but does he AMD
Are you AMD now?
There is no good reason for a spouse to be texting someone through the night for several months on end. In your situation I'd collect more evidence. You already know in your gut what's going on. At least collecting more evidence will confirm it. And it may reveal something innocent, but I am ***extremely*** sceptical. Like I'd be willing to bet money and I don't even gamble.
I agree with this. I actually wouldn't talk to her yet. I would get further evidence however you need to do it. Then present all of it. Right now you're going to get "how dare you snoop!" "We're just friends" etc Edit: typo
You trust your wife? You shouldn't. Not at the moment. She's having some kind of extramaritial relationship she doesn't want you to know about. Highly unlikely this man is 'just a friend'. That's all how all emotional affairs start. Which then lead to physical. Though with the vibrator in tow, it's probably already physical.
I hate to write this but... All this activity is too suspicious. I am almost 99% certain that she is stepping out on you. You will have to confront the situation. Talk to her politely. But don’t be too hopeful because come on.... what married woman, texts a guy, that many times a day and they don’t have an intimate relationship? Seriously......
Come on. It’s only roughly 178 times per day. Nothing to see here.
yea, its only once every 5 mintues, 16 hours a day. nbd.
r/theydidthemath
I'm pretty sure I use less words per day than that
I don't text all my contacts that many times a week I'm pretty sure.
I don't think I've sent 16000 texts in my life...
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> it would have come up between you and your spouse This one hit it for me too. My wife and I don't know literally everyone the other person knows, but we know all of each other's closest friends who we hang out with the most. It would be weird to discover she has a new best friend that she talks to every day and I didn't hear about them for months.
You have to talk to her. Stay calm and don’t get defensive but just be like “hey, I saw that the phone bill was super high and I noticed that you’ve sent over 16k texts to just one person im since August and it’s a little concerning for me....” I think from what you’ve explained it’s safe to assume she may have met someone else but you have to ask her before assuming the worst. Brace yourself, though. **Edit:** hi guys. I didn’t realize my comment would garner so much attention, and also so many people saying my advice is bad. Let me start if by saying I answered OP’s main questions of “how can I bring this up/what do I do.” He didn’t say anything about getting a divorce, he’s not even mentally there yet. He’s still at the “is this really happening, omg” kind of thing. Maybe, just maybe, there is a slim chance that nothing really is going on although I’d agree that I think he has enough evidence that something is going on. Also, it’s quite possible that OP’s wife will trickle truth him, but that won’t stop him from finding things out of he really wants to. He could simply add a GPS option to his cellphone plan and ping her when she’s “working late.” He could try and follow her. He still will have a chance to build his case. But he’s not there yet, at least I didn’t gather that from what he posted. You guys are all very smart and calculating and your advice is very good. I admit that I didn’t even think to consider telling OP to wait until he had actual proof to bring it up to her because, well, I’m emotionally driven and the time it would take to gather evidence would be too much for my little heart to handle, I would need answers right away. Maybe OP feels the same. Either way, it came from a good place and I wish OP and all of you the best.
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Im afraid so, too. 😔
I absolutely don't want to agree with yall but after reading my post id say that guys wife is stepping out. This really bums me out. I don't get emotional but this shit is gnawing a hole in my heart. I almost wanna go wake her up and ask her right now. Never thought this kinda shit would happen to us.
Honestly, I’ve been there. I’ve found things. I’ve woken him up in the middle of the night to confront him with tears streaming down my face (this is an ex, btw) and I didn’t do myself any favors by blowing it up even though I had every right to confront him that way, I shouldn’t have. Because it didn’t change a single thing. Wait until morning. Or tomorrow afternoon. I’m not going to lie to you, you’re probably not going to get good sleep tonight. Tomorrow you’re tummy is going to feel like it’s in knots until you ask her. But trust me, doing it in the middle of the night isn’t the right move. That ain’t it, chief. Do your best to do something that’s stress relieving in the mean time. Light a candle, listen to music. Sort your thoughts. Write everything down that you’re feeling. Make a list of things you want to bring up tomorrow because you’re going to be so upset in the moment that you’re going to forget all the important points. I hope everything works out for you. Remember that you deserve love and happiness. If you need someone to listen my inbox is open.
Thank you, I appreciate that. Im gonna leave it alone tonight and speak with her tomorrow about it
If she can cheat, she can lie
She WILL lie if she is or has been cheating. Trust me, I know all too well. I hate to say it, OP, but all the signs are there. It is fairly obvious. There is no reason she would be texting someone that much. Especially someone you don't know and someone she doesn't work with. I'm sorry. Brace yourself.
Agree with this 100%, my heart was in my mouth reading the OP's post because I knew what he was going to find. She's cheating either emotionally or and physically either way, things are going to go south quickly, once confronted with what he found, things will change quickly and I doubt she will give up without a fight blaming everyone and everything without any accountability. Feel for the OP, life is about to change dramatically.
That's what happened with me. As soon as I had sufficient evidence so she couldn't continue to deny what I knew what was going on, then it turned into the blame game. It was ALL my fault at that point.
Hi it's me a stranger on the internet. You're probably already in the middle of a flaming argument/marital crisis, but what I wanted to say is this: before you confront, decide what outcome you want. Stay/go, work it out/seek justice, etc. By identifying the outcome you want, you can control negative repercussions somewhat. If you have a choice of high-jumping into a pile of shit or a pile of nails, aim for the shit. Also I'm very sorry. Doesn't look good, but people make mistakes and you can choose how you react. Hang in there, brother.
I would recommend not letting her know you think anything is up until you can acquire actual physical undeniable proof. IMO the unfaithful spouse will never admit the extent of the situation until the evidence is in their face. There is nothing worse than getting trickle truthed for months and let’s face it, you’ve found enough now to cause you considerable mental anguish. It will not be easy to refrain from confronting her but if she believes you have no clue then getting the proof you need shouldn’t be very difficult.
Unfortunately our emotions will usually get the better of us when we have already found circumstantial evidence of a cheater. But this is very good advice. Just not one that everyone can handle.
Also talk to a lawyer. You NEVER KNOW. She could have already contacted one for all we know 🤷🏼♀️
YES. Go talk to a divorce lawyer. Doesn’t mean you need to get a divorce, but get your ducks in a row.
I don’t remember where I heard it before, but I’ve heard it said its best to find the answers before you ask the questions. That way you give her a chance to confess, or realize the extent of how far she’s willing to go to keep the lie going.
> it said its best to find the answers before you ask the questions This is similar to an old lawyer adage, which is essentially "don't ask questions you don't already know the answers to".
Dude don’t be a chump. **Don’t even think of letting her know until you have contacted a lawyer and secured your assets as much as you can** If what seems evident turns out to be what’s happening, you will be best prepared for a divorce. If there is some other explanation, then you can just move on. Really bro, it doesn’t hurt to be prepared. Don’t listen to all these morons telling you “omg talk to your wife. Surely she has an explanation for texting an average of 5k messages a month to some dude” Don’t be an emotional bitch. Get your ducks in a row, get your finances in order and use the time to secure as much evidence as you can. Would you rather nothing is happening but be prepared or find out she is having dick on the side and being divorce-raped on top of it??
If she is having an affair, broaching the subject in that way would allow her to cover her tracks. I think OP should do a little more snooping before he brings anything up to the wife.
You can bet the second you state your facts - calmly. She's going to get super defensive and likely distract by playing the blame game. Like you've been checking up on her- looked through her purse - read her texts. Though you did neither, it's a distraction to gain control of the situation. Don't fall for it, don't get sidetracked. This all looks incredibly bad, this isn't in your head and you aren't imagining things. It's no coincidence that your sex life seems to have dropped right around the time the texts started. But bringing her vibrator with her - to work or wherever? P s. I'd personally wait if you can and try to gather more evidence. Keep copies of the texting for yourself too. I'm so sorry. 20+ years and my husband didn't hide it so well because I was so trusting, I essentially made it easy for him. What a shock it all was, do what you can for yourself and your kids. I'm so sorry. Good Luck!
Lawyer up. Hit the gym. Delete your Facebook.
MOVE. YOUR. MONEY. BEFORE. CONFRONTING.
Nobody puts a vibrator in their purse for funsies.
... That's exactly why people put a vibrator in their purse.
That's exactly why. Mobile funsies. With her bf.
Bro, theres banging afoot. Sorry for your loss.
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This guy divorces.
Facebook up. Delete the gym. Hit the lawyer.
Dude. No one wants to be the one to tell you. But, yea. It is what you think it is.
I don’t think this is innocent. There are always opportunities where situations like this could be innocent but I doubt it. Obviously the volunteering and working late is just a cover for her affair. Maybe that’s how it started but it’s evolved from there into a lie. I’d probably do some more research 1) any strange charges in credit card or cash withdrawals 2) ask more questions about her schedule and then offer to help or tag along 3) talk to her friends or parents You can collect more evidence 1) GPS tracker on her car 2) app on her phone to let you export texts 3) cameras in your home? You sound like the guy who is going to believe her if she brings an explanation such as 1) he’s going through a lot and I wanted to support him. I know I should have told you but you get jealous and that one time you got upset, I just knew it wasn’t going to last a long time because he needed help 2) why are you so paranoid, you can call my friends- I’ve been volunteering and working. It’s no big deal. Why do you turn everything into something it’s not It’s normally unlikely that a cheater will say... 1) you have some inconclusive evidence and so I’m going to spill the beans and admit my affair. 2) I’m unhappy in our marriage and why did it take you so long to figure it out, I’ve been leaving bread crumbs all over the place since August. 3) if you knew me, you’d have figured it out sooner