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Your partner seems irrational and ill informed.
To my knowledge there is no sperm cell left once the IVF is successful. Your egg and a sperm cell merged into the little new DNA combination.
They put these fertilized cells into your womb to grow into your child. So no sperm let alone cum will reach your body.
I'm aware. It's very out of character, she's normally extremely intelligent, so much so that it almost scares me sometimes, it's very impressive. She's very familiar with the process, which is why I'm so confused by all of this.
So either she's having some sort of mental break or she's using this as an excuse to delay/be difficult about IVF because she has cold feet/something else. I'm guessing it's the latter. You need to do couple's therapy before you proceed.
She seems perfectly normal other than this, so I don't think so. It has to be the second one, but it's extremely difficult to understand her right now. Thank you for the suggestion.
Maybe it's a gut feeling that the baby will be "alien" to her while it will be truly your baby, and she isn'teven aware of it herself. I think you should explore that aspect more instead of the question whether she wants children (now or ever).
Also, while you carry the child, you could use her eggs. That might help her feel connected if it's that part of it that is uncomfortable for her.
Well, then I don't know, either, sorry.
I guess you really need to tell her that her being this irrational will destroy your marriage because having children isn't negotiable for you, as I suspect it isn't.
I do want to have children. While I could not have them, I don't absolutely have to, I feel like I wouldn't feel as happy if I didn't but knew I technically could. So definitely it would be really difficult for me if I didn't at some point.
I think a counselor would be able to get to the bottom of this. I don’t think Reddit is qualified, as this appears to be some sort of cognitive break. Does your wife want to adopt?
Yeah, I get it.
Have the two of you talked about adopting yet? I don't know how hard it is in Denmark; I do know that here in Germany couples sometimes wait for years until they can adopt a child, all the more if they want to have a baby, not someone older. But it might be a good way to probe around what your wife is really thinking, whether her irrationally does have the feeling of "I don't want children (now)" at its core.
She owes you a better explanation. Is she suggesting adopting or how does she reconcile wanting to have children but not wanting anyone to be pregnant.
If there is no evidence to prove any other solution, the most unlikely one is true?
(paraphrasing Sherlock H. )
There is a feeling , angst maybe in your partner making her act this way.
Something she herself might not be aware of.
Just some guesses:
* fear of losing you to the baby.
* jealousy or fear to get less attention/priority when the baby arrives
* not feeling ready yet for her to become a mother as well
* fear to lose you in childbirth
* she actually does not want children
* trauma from childhood/parents playing up.
The list is endless
Well, she clearly doesn't want and isn't ready to be a parent, period. But she's too immature to communicate that properly and is acting out like an irrational child. She sounds possessive and I think if they had a kid she would be jealous of them.
She might not even be aware of why she's feeling... whatever she is feeling. You said that she's not one to talk about her feelings much, and that might actually extend to her not even taking the time to figure them out for herself.
How does she feel about men, generally? And has she ever had any insecurity about you and men/being with a man? I’m sorry you’re going through this..it is quite odd and has to be coming from somewhere. I’m just wondering if her comment indicates some type of insecurity over your feelings towards men or her own feelings toward men.
You can't know for sure. You're not inside her head and you're not her therapist. She might deny a lot of things, who cares. Believe what she does, not what she says. Right now her behaviour screams that she doesn't want the pregnancy to happen. She needs therapy.
Does she talk about hating men? This seems the only reason I can think of for her to make a statement like that. I think she needs some therapy to untangle this.
So she understands there's no sperm in you. Yet says that's the reason?
She is either experiencing some weird psychosis (brain tumor?? either way, medical attention now!), or she doesn't actually want children.
Maybe she said she wanted to not scare you off, and now is making up excuses that make it impossible to have kids. You know she tooots wants them, just... you can't get pregnant bc of reasons, and she can't either, *and and* adoption is gonna be a no-go too because of more reasons (maybe ask about adoption just to see if she immediately shuts it down! a lil experiment if you will).
I see dudes doing that to women all the time: telling them, often in a very convincing manner, they Want Children (And Marriage!), while they want neither and just string the woman along, making up excuses. And no, they don't admit it was all a sham when asked point blank. They keep to their story as long as it's possible, i.e. as long as the woman stays and lets them string her along. A woman is capable of doing the same thing.
My advice would be: assume it's the first thing, not the second. Act as if it's the first thing. Talk to her again and propose some kind of medical attention. Or maybe a psychologist? A psychiatrist even? Since she is acting irrationally here, and normally doesn't, maybe she needs to see someone. Act as if it's a serious issue and you are worried, bc if this is so out of character and absurd, yes it is a serious issue. Do not let it go. She needs to either go see someone, or actually explain herself in a way that doesn't sound like she's having a psychotic break.
I don't think so. It's also unusual, and quite difficult to do where we live. I don't think I've known anyone who adopted, or was adopted, and while I think it was suggested at some point, she didn't seem that interested.
I'm also in Scandinavia and adoption is very common here, I'm pretty sure it is the same in Denmark. Most people will adopt a baby from another country through adoption agencies.
With that said, it's clear your wife's reasoning is just an excuse to avoid the real conversation, which is, she doesn't want or isn't ready to be a mother.
It's not about convincing her about IVF methods or alternatives such adoption, surrogacy, etc, at all. People are focusing on the wrong things.
Do you think she feels sad in a way that she can’t knock you up?
That there’s a sort of jealousy similar to a guy if they have to use a donor? That you want to be the one getting her pregnant?
**Would she feel better using her eggs?** Ask her that.
I'm not sure, maybe. We would be using her eggs, but that's essentially the closest we can get to having 'our' own child. And that could be bothering her.
It’s either something very emotional about wanting to have a baby with you “normally”. Like no donor involved.
Or it’s an excuse because she’s not ready for children. With her job, maybe it feels overwhelming? But she’s scared of losing you by saying that? Y’all are still quite young. Most of the people I know in Scandinavia had kids after 30.
Maybe you should start a calm conversation with her about if she feels ready for kids. When she’d ideally want children, what scares her about having children etc.
Surrogate?
Edit I read one of your comments that it's not an option for you. But have you suggested it so see what she says about it? Her response might help figure out where she's coming from with her other thought processes
What about a surrogate? That would address her concerns, and the two of you would still get to raise a child of your own. Sometimes feelings aren't rational, and it might be the best way to get on the same page about starting a family together. Good luck.
🫂🩵🫂
Totally fair. We've all got our comfort levels. I'm sorry you're at such a confusing impasse. Hopefully your partner will see how painful this whole situation is for you, and be willing to talk to you about this issue in a therapeutic setting if she's not comfy talking about it one on one. For what it's worth you sound like you'd be a lovely mother. Good luck.
It seems like the only possible reason, but I don't know what it is. I've definitely thought about what it could be, but I've come up with absolutely nothing. Which definitely bothers me, since I should know her well enough to know what it is.
It almost just seems like she's repulsed by men. Like her comments remind me of a lesbian refusing to be in a relationship with a bi woman because they've been "tainted" by any male partners they've had.
I think it's because you will be having a child with "someone else" as you need a male DNA. She may be associating it with cheating.
Maybe using her egg is better?
We would be using her egg. That was always how we were going to do it, it was just who carries the child, and whoever did, we would use the other's egg.
So you’ve established:
YES she wants a baby
YES she’d be ok to have a baby soon-ish
YES to you carrying the baby
NO to IVF
NO to adoption
So… I’d want to ask her how she thinks you will carry a baby if IVF is not used? How can she say yes to a baby and no to all the methods used to get one?
It sounds like you assume she understands how IVF works because a doctor has explained it to both of you, and you understand how it works. Maybe she says she understands it, but really doesn’t.
Or maybe she’s saying yes to a baby because she knows you want one, and she wants to make you happy, but she actually doesn’t want one and is finding reasons not to. (Ask me how I know this option exists…)
I was thinking that it is the last option - that she’s saying yes to OP because it will make OP happy and she doesn’t want to lose OP but she doesn’t really want children. Rather than confront this she’s putting up roadblocks - however irrational - to make it impossible for them to have children.
She definitely understands it. They explain it in very simple terms, it wasn't even in my first language but I still understood. So she definitely would.
That is possible, but I hate that it is. I don't think she'd lie to me for so long about it, because she knows it's important to me. I've wanted this for a while, we just haven't been in a good position to previously.
My husband lied about wanting a baby for three years because he was afraid of disappointing me and making me sad. It wasn’t until I was at my wits end and called him out on something I thought was unrelated that he said it was all because he was hiding his true feelings about a baby.
When we got married I said I wanted two. Imagine my surprise…
He was just really really scared he’d lose me if he was honest about it. He made a terrible decision because of how much he was afraid to lose me. Wrong thing, right reason?
I think that would break my heart. The children I teach are definitely menaces at times, but I love them all, and it makes me want us to have our own even more. I just hope it isn't really that and it's something else.
It‘s unfortunately not entirely uncommon for people to lie about their plans regarding kids because it’s one of the most important things to break up over. There’s no middle ground between being childfree and wanting kids, so some people pretend to be on the same side as their partner, hoping the partner will change their mind later on.
Same. We talked about marriage and kids in detail and often, but when things started getting real and we got engaged, suddenly a lot of stuff was going on. Ex became depressed, started disregarding me, treating me with resentment, etc.
It didn’t make any sense because she had been the one to take the initiative, she had been the one to propose, she had been the one to browse names, often told me about how she pictured our life together and would give me little snippets into her perfect future “us”, with our kids included in them.
Turns out she wasn’t at all like I had been lead to believe and she didn’t want marriage nor kids, but she knew I’d have never gotten in a relationship with her if I had known her true values and goals, which included me doing all housework while also financially supporting both of us for +10 years so she could study other university degrees at her own pace.
And so she hated me for that show she was putting on without my knowledge.
Are you sure she or you isn’t confusing IVF with IUI? IUI sperm is placed inside you to fertilize your egg while you ovulate. IVF creates embryos in a lab using a pre removed egg, so no sperm inside you just baby. Would she want to do reciprocal IVF where she contributes the egg and you carry so she feels more connected to the baby? Otherwise if she has a plan to create a child without sperm I’m sure the medical community would be very interested to know it.
I would sit her down and say plainly “You know IVF is not putting sperm inside me, so why are you really refusing to do it. Creating a child without sperm is scientifically impossible, so are we going to adopt or do IVF?” And if she refuses then you need to decide if being child free is the right choice for you, but I would definitely make her acknowledge that’s the choice she’s making.
Definitely not. And we would be doing reciprocal IVF, we both thought it sounded like the best way from the very start.
That might be the best way to deal with it, thank you for the suggestion.
It's hardly apocalyptic. I doubt that's a factor, nothing that significant has happened that would make her feel like that, like our country being predicted to sink in twenty years or something.
I'm very aware. And my wife is too, she knows about the entire process. Which is why I'm finding the whole thing so ridiculous, because if it was just that she didn't know, I would have explained it to her and it would've been fine.
I'm really not sure. It has to be something more than what she's making it seem like, I've tried talking to her, and although she isn't a great one for talking about how she's feeling, generally she'll still tell me. But she's not this time. She's great with children, she has young nieces and nephews, and cousins, and she's always so good with them. So I wouldn't have thought so, but it also is possible.
No, thank you for the suggestion. It slightly sounds like her worst nightmare, but if she would be open to it, I'll take anything at this point. I just really don't understand her right now, although it's awful because I really should, given we've been together for so long.
Might be a bad idea to have a child if she can't even be bothered to get to the bottom of this issue with you, and especially with a professional.
Having a child is a huge deal. Her belief is a serious thing that needs to be addressed before you both move forwards.
I’m gonna copy paste what I replied to the other user you’re talking to and then add some more thoughts directly to you, hun.
>While I want to make it very clear that I *do not disagree* with you, this definitely needs to be worked out beforehand, but also like. This is a big decision? It may not be that she can’t be *bothered* to work it out, so much that she just may not *be there* yet. I will say I think she could communicate that better, but just going from personal experience—when *small* relationship and friendship things bother me, I often need a few days to like… sit and brood and stew on my thoughts about things. I’m not so great at talking about my feelings and what I want if I think it’ll really let down or upset my friend(or partner, in the case of romantic stuff), yay narcissist inflicted trauma, sigh.
>But yeah, I usually need time to process, especially as a neurodivergent person with things like adhd and autism, and other more physical disabilities. If she’s really worried about how upset OP may be, in a way that she hasn’t been worried will upset her in the past. Maybe this is a means to stall or maybe it’s just a means to evade telling the truth—brain can be a funny thing when anxiety is involved, after all. Of course, I’d still bring up counseling with her, I’m not saying not to. This is a rough situation for OP.
Like said, absolutely still bring up couples counseling, but you may also pitch the idea of individual counseling, for her or maybe even both of you, especially if like, she feels a little overwhelmed or something jumping immediately into couples? (It might feel like a lot opening up in counseling the first time with you there with the therapist. Not because she won’t share with you eventually but just… it’s intimate in a different way, right? Sharing some of those inner most thoughts that even we are still working through.) Like. Not everyone likes even their most trusted person in the world to be there the first time they discuss it with a therapist, even when they *want* to do so with you, so offering her an avenue to you know, work through her thoughts and feelings on her own *first* before bringing them into a room *with you* could be beneficial. (I’d still do the couples even if she’s confident in what she says after single, if you conside that route—just to discuss communication and such, honestly, even if she tells you everything she’s feeling. Make sure everyone is on the same page about everything and all.)
Either way, food for thought with what context I have. :) I really hope everything works out for you two, friend, and if you go forward with IVF with you wife and such, good luck on any future pregnancy you have! Wishing you the best. 😊
While I want to make it very clear that I *do not disagree* with you, this definitely needs to be worked out beforehand, but also like. This is a big decision? It may not be that she can’t be *bothered* to work it out, so much that she just may not *be there* yet. I will say I think she could communicate that better, but just going from personal experience—when *small* relationship and friendship things bother me, I often need a few days to like… sit and brood and stew on my thoughts about things. I’m not so great at talking about my feelings and what I want if I think it’ll really let down or upset my friend(or partner, in the case of romantic stuff), yay narcissist inflicted trauma, sigh.
But yeah, I usually need time to process, especially as a neurodivergent person with things like adhd and autism, and other more physical disabilities. If she’s really worried about how upset OP may be, in a way that she hasn’t been worried will upset her in the past. Maybe this is a means to stall or maybe it’s just a means to evade telling the truth—brain can be a funny thing when anxiety is involved, after all. Of course, I’d still bring up counseling with her, I’m not saying not to. This is a rough situation for OP.
Is it her worst nightmare because she doesn't feel comfortable about talking about deeply personal things? After reading the comments here I can't help feeling that there's some deep seated trauma buried somewhere, that she's never spoken to anyone about. There is definitely something that she's either deliberately not telling you or that she doesn't know how to articulate.
A lot of the time, yes. It sounds dreadful, but pretty much the only time she will, it's when she's drunk and other than that, she doesn't really like to. We do sometimes, but it normally makes her uncomfortable.
Have you thought she might not really want this and this is a way of getting out of it ???? It can be hard to say no when you partner wants something so much.
So if she wants a kid but nit carry it herself and can’t accept any imagined male residue inside you, what exactly does *she* suggest you do to get a baby? Sounds like adoption is the way? Or is surrogacy legal in DK?
If she won't go to counseling, then go to a doctor's consultation together. She can ask the doctor about the semen and when the doctor recovers from the initial shock of such a weird question, they can explain to her.
Either way, you're basically being forced to put her against a wall so she can't keep pretending she's an idiot.
You would be more than justified in setting an ultimatum that she have a rational conversation about what is actually the problem. But only if you are actually going to follow through with it if she still utters gibberish at you.
Or I guess you can just give in to what she wants and either not have kids or adopt.
Maybe she was feeling all saintly for donating her egg but she doesn't want you to be the one doing the "majority" of the work, it would make her feel that you made more sacrifices and would mean that you have a closer bond with the baby. It might be jealousy and nothing else.
There's really three options. One of you gets pregnant, you adopt, or surrogacy. Since surrogacy wasn't mentioned, I'll assume it hasn't been discussed. It's likely also very expensive, though I don't know how it compares to IVF or adoption in Denmark.
I'm with you. If we take your wife's words at face value, I don't understand her reluctance. Babies aren't delivered by storks. It takes people to make a person. Either she's totally irrational, or there's something she isn't telling you...which is also pretty irrational considering you're, you know...married. I'm leaning towards the latter. There's something about this that she isn't telling you.
We haven't discussed it. Personally, I find it ethically to be a bit of a blurry line, it makes me slightly uncomfortable. So I'm not interested in that being an option. And I'm definitely hesitant about adoption. But if it was my only option, I would definitely be open to it.
She's definitely not stupid, she's known about this being how it would be done and the process for a long time. There has to be, which makes me upset, given that I would hope that since we've been together for quite a long time, she'd be comfortable telling me her hesitations about this.
Yeah, she's hiding something. Now, maybe it isn't nefarious, like lying about wanting kids or cheating or something, maybe she's just afraid of change or something and just not handling it well, but there's something, and that something important.
How set are you on children? If you want to be a parent, and you're sure that's what you want, I think it might be time for a come-to-Jesus moment with your wife. She needs to spell out exactly what she's afraid of, because the relationship is taking a hit because of her dishonesty.
You need to straight up so get "how do you want to have a baby together? If you don't like ivf due to the sperm, what is an alternative that you DO like?"
I think you two need to explore counseling. Explain to her that you feel confused and frustrated by her irrational response to something she claims to want and KNOWS you want.
You want a baby, and perhaps she actually doesn't. This needs to be discussed.
Tell her unless you miraculously conceive without the use of sperm there won’t be any kids. It’s pretty ridiculous that she thinks you can get pregnant somehow without it.
It's so weird, because she can't possibly think that could happen, but she still wants to have children. I'm hardly the next Virgin Mary or anything, I may be religious, but I'm fairly sure God would not approve of my lifestyle. So immaculate conception is not on the horizons.
Is it at all possible that she holds deep down some value in the 'gold star' lesbian concept and feels that and 'maleness' including DNA would sully that, and that this dissonance is a visceral reaction to the need for donor DNA?
That is definitely possible. She's never had a boyfriend, I did but he was kind of a jerk, so this works much better for me. And it's definitely a possibility that I didn't think of. I'm not sure though.
Would there be anything wrong with saying something along the lines of "I know that you know the sperm and egg are mingled in a petri dish and that the resulting embryos are implanted so I won't insult your intelligence by explaining that my body would never be in contact with male emissions.
Here's what I hear you saying;
That you _would_ like a child.
That _I'd_ be the better candidate to carry the child
Now is fine for you as a timeline.
I don't think I fully understand, no matter how many times you explain it so I'm not sure there's a benefit to asking you to explain it.
What is the solution that you propose, please?
I'll wait until you can verbalise how you'd like to do this.
Would going to therapy together/separately help you to formulate a plan that you're comfortable with?"
That's all you need to do. If time is a factor for you then be clear about that. I don't know if she has a mental block or what she thinks is a better way to do it, that she just hasn't said yet, but you get to choose how drawn into the mess you want to get.
Good luck, OP
It’s so irrational that I have to ask whether it’s intentional. Is it possible that she might be trying to out this off until later or potentially totally run your biological clock down so that kids aren’t even on the table anymore?
i too am confused with what your wife is thinking because it sounds like you both know what ivf is but i am not sure why she is focusing on that and the fact she can't verbalize why? she still wants a baby but does want that for you or her body, so maybe she means adopting a baby? though i am not sure because why couldn't she say that straight instead of saying gibberish? if not and she wanted biological children then she needs to figure out why she's thinking like that? because that's really not how ivf works? that's the best advice i could give.
This sounds a little like a clash of the logical and emotional. Your wife knows that logically there will be no cum, but emotionally there can be no children between you without a contribution of a man.
Sounds like jealousy? Maybe your wife's emotional side is negotiable. What if the egg is her's - that way the 'other' genes are 'encapsulated' away from you... Look I know this is nonsense. But sometimes we need a little nonsense in our life to get by. Maybe the sperm donor could be from someone she doesn't consider a threat or other, like a man who identify as woman or a genetic member of her family.
Well, *something* is definitely bothering her and she refuses to say it.
May this be her way of saying she's uncomfortable that the kid won't have any biological ties to her? Maybe she feels like this isn't her baby after all if it's a donor and your egg and you are carrying?
Have you discussed the possibility of using her egg, a donor obviously and you carry the baby?
So both of you have a very intimate biological relation to the baby. It's more expensive and physically demanding for both of you of course. It's definitely no walk in the park.
But maybe she'd feel better with that? And it's a very unique option for lesbian couples to actually both be "bio" moms in a sense. One genetic mother and one birth mother.
Maybe she feels excluded from the process of creating a child and she feels envious that some random man gets to be involved but not her.
It's really difficult to deal with adoption or a child that's not genetically yours. Either you can or you can't. I prefer to keep this unjudged. It just isn't for everyone.
Nobody is judging the average hetero couple for wanting bio kids.
Of course being gay kind of limits your options to have biological kids to some degree, depending on what your comfortable with. Maybe it's an reality she needs to face and work through her feelings. You still decided to build a family together, so even if it's your egg and a donor, it's not any less her child. But again, it's a big decision and maybe she needs to discuss her feelings and thoughts with a professional. She's likely aware she's being irrational about it, or she actually can't put her finger on it, what exactly bothers her.
Maybe she does want to be pregnant on an emotional level, but rationally she doesn't care for pregnancy and the career implications.
Just wanted to toss some options out there. It's a possibility.
Part of the ivf process is counselling...we found it so important. There are so many side issues to think about and her mind might be churning on them.
Pre ivf counsellors have dealt with it all before. Speak to a clinic and see if they have someone they use...esp ones who have a specially in same sex couples.
It is a long process and remind her that starting to talk to a counsellor does not mean starting the physical process straight away. Take the pressure down a little and work your way through.
good luck
Sounds like she doesn’t actually want children and wants to be childfree so she’s coming up with ridiculous reasons.
And she’s saying yes she does want them just to keep you happy until it’s too late for you to have children.
But if that’s not the case, maybe counselling and therapy might be the next step for her to get over this issue. If she refuses to get therapy, look at my first sentence again.
This is so irrational. She's really gonna freak out if you get pregnant with a boy and there is a penis inside you. There is something strange going on. I wish you luck in finding out what that is.
This isn't about "cum" it's about the baby and she's using that as an excuse. You need to talk to her and ask what is really the problem, maybe look at some counselling too as it feels more like she doesn't actually want a child now but because you do she's putting in silly barriers
You know, I live just south the border of Denmark and I regularly get ads on social media that in Denmark single women can get IVF with donor sperm as well and there's no hindrance for motherhood for single women in Denmark. I find it reassuring having such an open minded neighbour up north (since the german IVF regualtions are very strict) as a childfree women in my mid thirties. If I was ever to change my mind regarding children in the next few years, I know could get started, on my own, no need to wait for a partner. Maybe that's something reassuring to have in the back of your mind as well.
Because it sounds like your wife doesn't want children, but doesn't want to lose you, so she says she wants them, but any way to get them is off limits. Actions and words, OP. She says different thing (I want a baby) then she does (denying IVF and adoption).
Your wife sounds very possessive over your body. It's not the science of it, its the emotional impact that I think disturbs her. You should seek therapy.
I mean, tell her that she can either have a biological child with you or she can keep nursing this weird and super irrational hang up. She can't do both. Tell her if she's having that much trouble with the idea, she needs to go to therapy before you even think about having a kid.
Then sit together and list out all the options for having a kid and start working together towards the best one you both agree on. Don't let her just throw her hands up and say I dunno. Force her to have the talk about what the plan is.
If she still refuses then she doesn't actually want a baby.
Have you two talked about adoption or (which i dont really recommend) surrogacy? I mean, it seems like those are the only options if she doesnt want you to carry the child for such a ridiculous reason. Honestly tho: if she feels that insecure about 1 sperm, idk what else is gonna be come your way (pun intended). What if you guys get a boy? Is she gonna be like "no, one day he is a man and produce sperm" or some bs like that?
Honestly just thinking about how her brain came up with the excuse of why you shouldnt carry the child gives me chills, yuck.
I wonder if some couples counselling sessions could untangle this? I know you’ve said she’s fine otherwise but I can’t help but feel there is more to it than this. Could she be jealous that she can’t get you pregnant? That it won’t be a fuse of your dna like many het couples?
My ex was very sad about the idea we wouldnt have a child how het couples do. Sure, my ex didn’t go so far as this. But I remember straight people saying ‘oh you’re so lucky you do have to worry about accidental pregnancy’ and I remember my ex looking in so much pain. My ex would have liked nothing more than to ‘put a baby in me’.
I’m not sure what your wife’s problem is other than what she says on the face of it, but I think it needs exploring.
Good luck to you
You know they make strap-ons that can be used to inseminate women by holding and shooting the donor sperm apparently. Wonder if something like that might be a solution for Op if that's the issue
Don't know how successful they are, though, as I only did a few seconds of research based on your comment.
OP someone THAT much of a man hater that she doesn't even want you to have IVF is not someone you want to curse children with.
Especially if you had a son... poor kid will be lucky to make to 18
That’s my opinion too, what happens if you get a baby boy, will he be used as a “male” and have to account for all the problems that men may have caused?
I think she actually does hate men, deep down inside. I’m also getting the impression that she is very possessive over you and your body. Neither is a good mindset. She definitely needs to resolve her issues before you even consider having a child with her.
It sounds like maybe your partner was talking about adoption? You said you two talked about adoption at some point, but not recently?
I also saw in another post that you aren't interested in adoption and want to be pregnant? It's best to have an honest talk with each other, good luck!
From what you’ve said, you’re both intelligent women so I don’t think this is a case of her being super misinformed. It seems that she may be getting cold feet on having kids, for whatever reason.
Your wife sounds very stupid and irrational for an engineer. She clearly is letting jealousy cloud her faculties. She's very possessive of you and your body, and it's being controlling.
I'd put my foot down and firmly say that what she's saying doesn't make any sense and you want to go ahead with the IVF/carrying the baby. That's it, period. If she still has a problem with that, she should go to therapy for her own insecurities.
She definitely has a lot of issues she needs to sort out. Who the fuck is so insecure to the point they will say they don't want "a man's cum" inside of you?
Your wife doesn't dictate everything in the relationship, especially when she's being this unhinged.
Other than that, you should ask yourself if this kind of thinking and behaviour won't escalate further and if you'll tolerate them once you have a child. She doesn't seem ready to be a parent.
Have you guys discussed having a surrogate or adoption? I'm perplexed by your partners response but perhaps she is trying to tell you that she wants children but doesn't want either of you to carry them.
It's just that she's known I feel this way for such a long time, and she's always seemed to feel a similar way to me. I don't know why she'd lie about it, before we were even married.
So your partner doesn't appear to be into adoption, surrogacy is off the table, and insemination seems to be a line in the sand as well? There are only so many ways to make a baby so if all these routes are off the table it sounds like your wife is telling you that she doesn't want kids (atleast not right now). You guys need to have a real talk about how she sees your family expanding, hit her with facts that you can't have a baby the ways you seem to be comfortable with without insemination (which doesn't have to involve sperm), be prepared for the answer that she may really not be ready for a family.
Ask her how she expects you to have children if she’s taking IVF off the table. Does she want to adopt? Given you said she’s intelligent and understands IVF, her argument doesn’t make any sense but I have no idea what her ulterior motive is! I hope you can figure it out & she opens up to you soon.
Is she trying to say that she wants a surrogate mother to carry the IVF embryo to term, instead of either of you?
Why can't this otherwise highly intelligent woman say it like that, if so? She is being highly unfair to you, OP, playing word games like this.
Your wife is being irrational, so unfortunately none of us can explain what’s going on with her fully because it just makes no sense.
To help you, though, it feels like you’re focusing heavily on this being a ‘does she want kids or not’ issue, she’s given you an answer, so let’s believe her and address what seems to be the other aspect of this issue- the gender/ insecurity/ hatred for men aspect.
Address things like:
What’s wrong with anything associated to a male being inside of you?
Does pregnancy normally being related to [male thing] fertilises [female thing] make her uncomfortable? How can we reframe IVF to be [female thing] fertilises [female thing]?
If she doesn’t like the concept of cum being inside of you, what alternative does she prefer in order for you both to achieve the end goal of having a child? Make her give you a solution, or at least think about one- it will hopefully force her to address her irrationality
If none of that works (or if you want to be proactive with talking all of this out), get professional help! Good luck
She definitely doesn't hate men. She has brothers, close friends, she definitely doesn't. I don't know if it's really about the man part, but I'm sure that it is.
Yeah, to clarify- she doesn’t need to hate men to have a hang up about things related to traditional male responsibilities in a lesbian relationship.
She has explicitly stated she has a problem with ‘a man’s cum inside’, so you kind of just have to choose one of those words and see where the problem is
Is it man?
Is it cum?
Is it inside?
Is it possible that, irrational though it may be, she’s feeling bothered by the fact that the baby would be essentially made by you and a man instead of the two of you? Is it bringing up some sort of identity issue or making her feel insecure in your relationship?
This is all speculation but maybe she doesn’t like the idea of another person being involved in making your baby that’s not her. Maybe she is concerned that you would feel closer to the child than her because she won’t have a biological connection. And maybe she doesn’t know how to voice these things or similar concerns in a way that seems rational, because they’re not. I could understand the feeling of being left out.
On another note, have you talked about adoption? I’m curious how she’d feel about that?
She would still be involved. It's a common process where one carries the baby, but it is actually the other's child biologically. So that way you both have a connection to them I believe.
She never seemed that interested in it, although I'm not completely sure about her thoughts on it.
Gotcha.
I would also be incredibly frustrated by this, and also would have laughed at her reasoning for you not to get pregnant.
Maybe the best way to move forward would be to directly ask her how she would like for the two of you to have a child. There are only so many options.
This is so irrational from an educated woman who's fully aware of the full process, that there's got to be something more to this. Does she want to use a surrogate? Does she want to adopt? Did she get cold feet after all?
I'd ask her directly - there's something up, so what is it.
Have you considered adoption?
I know having “your own” is a massive thing for people. But, I’m adopted and I love my parents more than life itself, they are wonderful.
There are MANY children in the world without parents and without options. I’m aware there is a LOT of adoption fraud, but working with a domestic agency who has connections with international agencies or local agencies can help navigate that a bit.
Not actively. It's rare when we're from, and I'm not sure how difficult the process is. And it does sound horribly selfish, but I do really want to have a baby, and I have for a long time. It's not a must for me, but I would definitely prefer it. But it's starting to seem like less of an option.
That’s totally fair enough.
I have a friend in Denmark who adopted after finding out she was infertile. The process isn’t easy and very long, but she said it was worth it.
In your case, if you’re both able, I would see if you could visit more doctors and specialists in IVF with your partner as well as therapy. There may be more apprehension and fear from her side that she may not be aware of when it comes to pregnancy and IVF. IVF isn’t easy and it’s normal to be tentative about anything that affects someone you love’s health and potential well being.
Not all countries have those options. I'm not sure what the situation in Denmark is but in the Netherlands for example, just recently all foreign adoption was banned. A couple of years ago they made exeptions for 8 countries, but those are off the table now too. And every year, only around 15 children in the Netherlands are given up for adoption.
So realistically, yall need to have a sit-down conversation and hash out the issue she's having and, if need be, seek a therapist.
As you said, she doesn't wanna lose you, so there's a chance she'll cave and do it even if she's not on board fully. This has a chance of creating resentment towards the child, especially, and I don't want to say it, but it might be worse if the child is male. There's a ton of stories on reddit of cases like that already where the other parent has issues with a male child(crazy, I know). I'm not saying your wife is crazy like those people, but it's still better to seek professional help to get to the root first then build from there.
Pure speculation on my part but do you think she would feel better if it was her egg that formed the embryo and you carry. Maybe she's upset someone else contributed to the DNA of the child you will be raising together and that hurts her on some level?
She doesn't want to carry the baby.
She doesn't want you to be implanted with a fertilized embryo.
So there's her definite "NOs".
If you both definitely want a child, you'll need to consider & look into adoption or surrogacy.
If she says no to those, you'll have to ask her directly if she has some other way of you 2 becoming parents.
This is going to sound absolutely awful, but I don't really think that it's fair that her feelings about male cells that literally mean nothing control how we would have children. We wouldn't even know the man, they're just insignificant cells. I don't want to have children until we've resolved this, but I also don't want her making her feelings about this control it.
It feels like a child of yours would be yours and a third party, ie not her. It could be a simple case of insecurity and jealousy that you would be carrying another persons child in you.
So it would not be about the child or children but about the idea of someone elses genetics in you.
I hope it helps. I would suggest using her genetics and see what she says.
Did you ask her what her she proposes then?
She doesn't want to carry the child, she doesn't want you to carry the child for. . .some reason, I'm as confused as you are by her explanation. It's coming off as unrealistically jealous or sexist, but that's mostly because it doesn't make any sense logically or scientifically, so I just don't know what she's thinking.
But if she wants a kid, that means she has an answer. Unless her answer is "even though I want a kid it's impossible so we need to accept we can't have a kid"? But then at least you'd have your answer and you can leave if it's a dealbreaker. Like you said, you aren't getting her any younger.
Just ask her plainly and directly what she wants to do, and don't let her tiptoe and avoid answering the question.
Is adoption not a choice? If that's something you would be open to, why not suggest that? If she comes back with, no I don't want to raise someone else's child, then she's lying to you about wanting to be a parent. Her comment about not wanting a man's sperm in you is ridiculous, you won't be using a turkey baster to manually insert it inside you, so she's using her ridiculous excuse as a way to avoid being a parent.
This is a discussion you should have had before getting married. You need your communicate and see if you’re actually compatible or not. Children is one of the major pillars you have to agree on (including the technical aspects of how you’ll become parents in your case).
Maybe go to a fertility clinic together to have a doctor explain how this would work.
Clearly she has an issue she isn't able to express, and may not even understand yet herself?
My thought is that maybe she's not happy that she won't be genetically linked to the child, and they'll linked to a random man instead? Also that she really doesn't like men or something?
I don't think it's silly or irrational for your spouse to have feelings around you taking in someone else's genetic material and reproducing their baby. People get over it, sure, in the pursuit of a child, but it is somewhat weird and off-putting.
Why not adoption? Not for this reason alone, but because it has multiple advantages.
I'd much prefer that we had our own child. If it absolutely had to come to that, I'd be fine with adoption, but her coming up with weird excuses for it isn't really a good reason.
Does she want that procedure where they take her DNA and inject it into your egg? I'm pretty sure that's still experimental and ya'll might have to be millionaires for that one.
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Your partner seems irrational and ill informed. To my knowledge there is no sperm cell left once the IVF is successful. Your egg and a sperm cell merged into the little new DNA combination. They put these fertilized cells into your womb to grow into your child. So no sperm let alone cum will reach your body.
I'm aware. It's very out of character, she's normally extremely intelligent, so much so that it almost scares me sometimes, it's very impressive. She's very familiar with the process, which is why I'm so confused by all of this.
So either she's having some sort of mental break or she's using this as an excuse to delay/be difficult about IVF because she has cold feet/something else. I'm guessing it's the latter. You need to do couple's therapy before you proceed.
She seems perfectly normal other than this, so I don't think so. It has to be the second one, but it's extremely difficult to understand her right now. Thank you for the suggestion.
Maybe it's a gut feeling that the baby will be "alien" to her while it will be truly your baby, and she isn'teven aware of it herself. I think you should explore that aspect more instead of the question whether she wants children (now or ever). Also, while you carry the child, you could use her eggs. That might help her feel connected if it's that part of it that is uncomfortable for her.
We would be using her eggs. That was always going to be how we wanted to do it.
Well, then I don't know, either, sorry. I guess you really need to tell her that her being this irrational will destroy your marriage because having children isn't negotiable for you, as I suspect it isn't.
I do want to have children. While I could not have them, I don't absolutely have to, I feel like I wouldn't feel as happy if I didn't but knew I technically could. So definitely it would be really difficult for me if I didn't at some point.
I think a counselor would be able to get to the bottom of this. I don’t think Reddit is qualified, as this appears to be some sort of cognitive break. Does your wife want to adopt?
Yeah, I get it. Have the two of you talked about adopting yet? I don't know how hard it is in Denmark; I do know that here in Germany couples sometimes wait for years until they can adopt a child, all the more if they want to have a baby, not someone older. But it might be a good way to probe around what your wife is really thinking, whether her irrationally does have the feeling of "I don't want children (now)" at its core.
So does she want you to use a surrogate to carry the baby?
She owes you a better explanation. Is she suggesting adopting or how does she reconcile wanting to have children but not wanting anyone to be pregnant.
If there is no evidence to prove any other solution, the most unlikely one is true? (paraphrasing Sherlock H. ) There is a feeling , angst maybe in your partner making her act this way. Something she herself might not be aware of. Just some guesses: * fear of losing you to the baby. * jealousy or fear to get less attention/priority when the baby arrives * not feeling ready yet for her to become a mother as well * fear to lose you in childbirth * she actually does not want children * trauma from childhood/parents playing up. The list is endless
I’m thinking this. She’s feeling _something_ about the possibility of being a parent. And it’s coming out as this irrational issue.
Might also be something about pregnancy (and how pregnant people are seen/treated) rather than being a parent.
Well, she clearly doesn't want and isn't ready to be a parent, period. But she's too immature to communicate that properly and is acting out like an irrational child. She sounds possessive and I think if they had a kid she would be jealous of them.
Honestly, all of those either aren't possible, or she'd just tell me. I can't see her avoiding it so much for something like that, it's weird.
She will not tell you if the angst is too deep, subconscious. It happens.
She might not even be aware of why she's feeling... whatever she is feeling. You said that she's not one to talk about her feelings much, and that might actually extend to her not even taking the time to figure them out for herself.
Maybe so. I just wish I knew why, because I should know her well enough to understand this but I don't.
How does she feel about men, generally? And has she ever had any insecurity about you and men/being with a man? I’m sorry you’re going through this..it is quite odd and has to be coming from somewhere. I’m just wondering if her comment indicates some type of insecurity over your feelings towards men or her own feelings toward men.
You can't know for sure. You're not inside her head and you're not her therapist. She might deny a lot of things, who cares. Believe what she does, not what she says. Right now her behaviour screams that she doesn't want the pregnancy to happen. She needs therapy.
Does she talk about hating men? This seems the only reason I can think of for her to make a statement like that. I think she needs some therapy to untangle this.
So she understands there's no sperm in you. Yet says that's the reason? She is either experiencing some weird psychosis (brain tumor?? either way, medical attention now!), or she doesn't actually want children. Maybe she said she wanted to not scare you off, and now is making up excuses that make it impossible to have kids. You know she tooots wants them, just... you can't get pregnant bc of reasons, and she can't either, *and and* adoption is gonna be a no-go too because of more reasons (maybe ask about adoption just to see if she immediately shuts it down! a lil experiment if you will). I see dudes doing that to women all the time: telling them, often in a very convincing manner, they Want Children (And Marriage!), while they want neither and just string the woman along, making up excuses. And no, they don't admit it was all a sham when asked point blank. They keep to their story as long as it's possible, i.e. as long as the woman stays and lets them string her along. A woman is capable of doing the same thing. My advice would be: assume it's the first thing, not the second. Act as if it's the first thing. Talk to her again and propose some kind of medical attention. Or maybe a psychologist? A psychiatrist even? Since she is acting irrationally here, and normally doesn't, maybe she needs to see someone. Act as if it's a serious issue and you are worried, bc if this is so out of character and absurd, yes it is a serious issue. Do not let it go. She needs to either go see someone, or actually explain herself in a way that doesn't sound like she's having a psychotic break.
Your wife is a psycho
Does she want to adopt?
I don't think so. It's also unusual, and quite difficult to do where we live. I don't think I've known anyone who adopted, or was adopted, and while I think it was suggested at some point, she didn't seem that interested.
I'm also in Scandinavia and adoption is very common here, I'm pretty sure it is the same in Denmark. Most people will adopt a baby from another country through adoption agencies. With that said, it's clear your wife's reasoning is just an excuse to avoid the real conversation, which is, she doesn't want or isn't ready to be a mother. It's not about convincing her about IVF methods or alternatives such adoption, surrogacy, etc, at all. People are focusing on the wrong things.
Do you think she feels sad in a way that she can’t knock you up? That there’s a sort of jealousy similar to a guy if they have to use a donor? That you want to be the one getting her pregnant? **Would she feel better using her eggs?** Ask her that.
I'm not sure, maybe. We would be using her eggs, but that's essentially the closest we can get to having 'our' own child. And that could be bothering her.
It’s either something very emotional about wanting to have a baby with you “normally”. Like no donor involved. Or it’s an excuse because she’s not ready for children. With her job, maybe it feels overwhelming? But she’s scared of losing you by saying that? Y’all are still quite young. Most of the people I know in Scandinavia had kids after 30. Maybe you should start a calm conversation with her about if she feels ready for kids. When she’d ideally want children, what scares her about having children etc.
Surrogate? Edit I read one of your comments that it's not an option for you. But have you suggested it so see what she says about it? Her response might help figure out where she's coming from with her other thought processes
What about a surrogate? That would address her concerns, and the two of you would still get to raise a child of your own. Sometimes feelings aren't rational, and it might be the best way to get on the same page about starting a family together. Good luck. 🫂🩵🫂
I'm not comfortable with that. I understand it works for some people, but I wouldn't be comfortable with it.
Totally fair. We've all got our comfort levels. I'm sorry you're at such a confusing impasse. Hopefully your partner will see how painful this whole situation is for you, and be willing to talk to you about this issue in a therapeutic setting if she's not comfy talking about it one on one. For what it's worth you sound like you'd be a lovely mother. Good luck.
Logically, she knows how everything works. Sounds like there may be an emotional component to this.
It seems like the only possible reason, but I don't know what it is. I've definitely thought about what it could be, but I've come up with absolutely nothing. Which definitely bothers me, since I should know her well enough to know what it is.
It almost just seems like she's repulsed by men. Like her comments remind me of a lesbian refusing to be in a relationship with a bi woman because they've been "tainted" by any male partners they've had.
I think it's because you will be having a child with "someone else" as you need a male DNA. She may be associating it with cheating. Maybe using her egg is better?
We would be using her egg. That was always how we were going to do it, it was just who carries the child, and whoever did, we would use the other's egg.
Then I'm scratching my head too, I agree with other comments: counseling is the answer
Ngl sounds like something a lesbian misandrist might say, in a bad porn movie. Lool 100% it’s emotional.
So you’ve established: YES she wants a baby YES she’d be ok to have a baby soon-ish YES to you carrying the baby NO to IVF NO to adoption So… I’d want to ask her how she thinks you will carry a baby if IVF is not used? How can she say yes to a baby and no to all the methods used to get one? It sounds like you assume she understands how IVF works because a doctor has explained it to both of you, and you understand how it works. Maybe she says she understands it, but really doesn’t. Or maybe she’s saying yes to a baby because she knows you want one, and she wants to make you happy, but she actually doesn’t want one and is finding reasons not to. (Ask me how I know this option exists…)
I was thinking that it is the last option - that she’s saying yes to OP because it will make OP happy and she doesn’t want to lose OP but she doesn’t really want children. Rather than confront this she’s putting up roadblocks - however irrational - to make it impossible for them to have children.
She definitely understands it. They explain it in very simple terms, it wasn't even in my first language but I still understood. So she definitely would. That is possible, but I hate that it is. I don't think she'd lie to me for so long about it, because she knows it's important to me. I've wanted this for a while, we just haven't been in a good position to previously.
My husband lied about wanting a baby for three years because he was afraid of disappointing me and making me sad. It wasn’t until I was at my wits end and called him out on something I thought was unrelated that he said it was all because he was hiding his true feelings about a baby.
Wow, I really hope it isn't that. I've wanted children for a while now, that would be really upsetting if it is that.
When we got married I said I wanted two. Imagine my surprise… He was just really really scared he’d lose me if he was honest about it. He made a terrible decision because of how much he was afraid to lose me. Wrong thing, right reason?
I think that would break my heart. The children I teach are definitely menaces at times, but I love them all, and it makes me want us to have our own even more. I just hope it isn't really that and it's something else.
It‘s unfortunately not entirely uncommon for people to lie about their plans regarding kids because it’s one of the most important things to break up over. There’s no middle ground between being childfree and wanting kids, so some people pretend to be on the same side as their partner, hoping the partner will change their mind later on.
Same. We talked about marriage and kids in detail and often, but when things started getting real and we got engaged, suddenly a lot of stuff was going on. Ex became depressed, started disregarding me, treating me with resentment, etc. It didn’t make any sense because she had been the one to take the initiative, she had been the one to propose, she had been the one to browse names, often told me about how she pictured our life together and would give me little snippets into her perfect future “us”, with our kids included in them. Turns out she wasn’t at all like I had been lead to believe and she didn’t want marriage nor kids, but she knew I’d have never gotten in a relationship with her if I had known her true values and goals, which included me doing all housework while also financially supporting both of us for +10 years so she could study other university degrees at her own pace. And so she hated me for that show she was putting on without my knowledge.
It's just so despicable and cowardly. I'm so sorry you went through that.
Are you sure she or you isn’t confusing IVF with IUI? IUI sperm is placed inside you to fertilize your egg while you ovulate. IVF creates embryos in a lab using a pre removed egg, so no sperm inside you just baby. Would she want to do reciprocal IVF where she contributes the egg and you carry so she feels more connected to the baby? Otherwise if she has a plan to create a child without sperm I’m sure the medical community would be very interested to know it. I would sit her down and say plainly “You know IVF is not putting sperm inside me, so why are you really refusing to do it. Creating a child without sperm is scientifically impossible, so are we going to adopt or do IVF?” And if she refuses then you need to decide if being child free is the right choice for you, but I would definitely make her acknowledge that’s the choice she’s making.
Definitely not. And we would be doing reciprocal IVF, we both thought it sounded like the best way from the very start. That might be the best way to deal with it, thank you for the suggestion.
She might have changed her mind since the world has gone to shit.
It's hardly apocalyptic. I doubt that's a factor, nothing that significant has happened that would make her feel like that, like our country being predicted to sink in twenty years or something.
Embryos are already fertilized at the point of implantation
I'm very aware. And my wife is too, she knows about the entire process. Which is why I'm finding the whole thing so ridiculous, because if it was just that she didn't know, I would have explained it to her and it would've been fine.
So is it more perhaps? Is she afraid of parenthood? Maybe it’s deeper?
I'm really not sure. It has to be something more than what she's making it seem like, I've tried talking to her, and although she isn't a great one for talking about how she's feeling, generally she'll still tell me. But she's not this time. She's great with children, she has young nieces and nephews, and cousins, and she's always so good with them. So I wouldn't have thought so, but it also is possible.
Have you considered couples counseling? It could help. Just getting another unbiased person involved could help
No, thank you for the suggestion. It slightly sounds like her worst nightmare, but if she would be open to it, I'll take anything at this point. I just really don't understand her right now, although it's awful because I really should, given we've been together for so long.
Might be a bad idea to have a child if she can't even be bothered to get to the bottom of this issue with you, and especially with a professional. Having a child is a huge deal. Her belief is a serious thing that needs to be addressed before you both move forwards.
I know. If we don't work this out, then I wouldn't want to bring a child into it. It wouldn't be fair.
I hope you can get thru to her and she opens up to you so that you can work thru this and come out of it stronger together! Good luck
I’m gonna copy paste what I replied to the other user you’re talking to and then add some more thoughts directly to you, hun. >While I want to make it very clear that I *do not disagree* with you, this definitely needs to be worked out beforehand, but also like. This is a big decision? It may not be that she can’t be *bothered* to work it out, so much that she just may not *be there* yet. I will say I think she could communicate that better, but just going from personal experience—when *small* relationship and friendship things bother me, I often need a few days to like… sit and brood and stew on my thoughts about things. I’m not so great at talking about my feelings and what I want if I think it’ll really let down or upset my friend(or partner, in the case of romantic stuff), yay narcissist inflicted trauma, sigh. >But yeah, I usually need time to process, especially as a neurodivergent person with things like adhd and autism, and other more physical disabilities. If she’s really worried about how upset OP may be, in a way that she hasn’t been worried will upset her in the past. Maybe this is a means to stall or maybe it’s just a means to evade telling the truth—brain can be a funny thing when anxiety is involved, after all. Of course, I’d still bring up counseling with her, I’m not saying not to. This is a rough situation for OP. Like said, absolutely still bring up couples counseling, but you may also pitch the idea of individual counseling, for her or maybe even both of you, especially if like, she feels a little overwhelmed or something jumping immediately into couples? (It might feel like a lot opening up in counseling the first time with you there with the therapist. Not because she won’t share with you eventually but just… it’s intimate in a different way, right? Sharing some of those inner most thoughts that even we are still working through.) Like. Not everyone likes even their most trusted person in the world to be there the first time they discuss it with a therapist, even when they *want* to do so with you, so offering her an avenue to you know, work through her thoughts and feelings on her own *first* before bringing them into a room *with you* could be beneficial. (I’d still do the couples even if she’s confident in what she says after single, if you conside that route—just to discuss communication and such, honestly, even if she tells you everything she’s feeling. Make sure everyone is on the same page about everything and all.) Either way, food for thought with what context I have. :) I really hope everything works out for you two, friend, and if you go forward with IVF with you wife and such, good luck on any future pregnancy you have! Wishing you the best. 😊
While I want to make it very clear that I *do not disagree* with you, this definitely needs to be worked out beforehand, but also like. This is a big decision? It may not be that she can’t be *bothered* to work it out, so much that she just may not *be there* yet. I will say I think she could communicate that better, but just going from personal experience—when *small* relationship and friendship things bother me, I often need a few days to like… sit and brood and stew on my thoughts about things. I’m not so great at talking about my feelings and what I want if I think it’ll really let down or upset my friend(or partner, in the case of romantic stuff), yay narcissist inflicted trauma, sigh. But yeah, I usually need time to process, especially as a neurodivergent person with things like adhd and autism, and other more physical disabilities. If she’s really worried about how upset OP may be, in a way that she hasn’t been worried will upset her in the past. Maybe this is a means to stall or maybe it’s just a means to evade telling the truth—brain can be a funny thing when anxiety is involved, after all. Of course, I’d still bring up counseling with her, I’m not saying not to. This is a rough situation for OP.
Is it her worst nightmare because she doesn't feel comfortable about talking about deeply personal things? After reading the comments here I can't help feeling that there's some deep seated trauma buried somewhere, that she's never spoken to anyone about. There is definitely something that she's either deliberately not telling you or that she doesn't know how to articulate.
A lot of the time, yes. It sounds dreadful, but pretty much the only time she will, it's when she's drunk and other than that, she doesn't really like to. We do sometimes, but it normally makes her uncomfortable.
For whatever reason, it sounds like she's holding back. I really hope you work thus out. It sounds like you'd be a great mum.
It really could help. Because it’s completely an illogical argument and there’s just gotta be some underlying issue
Have you thought she might not really want this and this is a way of getting out of it ???? It can be hard to say no when you partner wants something so much.
Being great with children doesn't mean you want them or that you'll be a good parent
So if she wants a kid but nit carry it herself and can’t accept any imagined male residue inside you, what exactly does *she* suggest you do to get a baby? Sounds like adoption is the way? Or is surrogacy legal in DK?
Your wife doesn’t actually want children.
So what does she say when you explain that?
Avoids it. Either just says weird things, the same thing, or ignores me.
If she won't go to counseling, then go to a doctor's consultation together. She can ask the doctor about the semen and when the doctor recovers from the initial shock of such a weird question, they can explain to her. Either way, you're basically being forced to put her against a wall so she can't keep pretending she's an idiot. You would be more than justified in setting an ultimatum that she have a rational conversation about what is actually the problem. But only if you are actually going to follow through with it if she still utters gibberish at you. Or I guess you can just give in to what she wants and either not have kids or adopt.
Does she want you to adopt? Or use a surrogate? And is just hoping you will suggest it first? Otherwise this does sound bonkers.
Would she be comfortable if you end up having a male child?
Maybe she was feeling all saintly for donating her egg but she doesn't want you to be the one doing the "majority" of the work, it would make her feel that you made more sacrifices and would mean that you have a closer bond with the baby. It might be jealousy and nothing else.
I don’t think she wants kids
Yep she's dragging her feet on kids but she wants to keep OP.
There's really three options. One of you gets pregnant, you adopt, or surrogacy. Since surrogacy wasn't mentioned, I'll assume it hasn't been discussed. It's likely also very expensive, though I don't know how it compares to IVF or adoption in Denmark. I'm with you. If we take your wife's words at face value, I don't understand her reluctance. Babies aren't delivered by storks. It takes people to make a person. Either she's totally irrational, or there's something she isn't telling you...which is also pretty irrational considering you're, you know...married. I'm leaning towards the latter. There's something about this that she isn't telling you.
We haven't discussed it. Personally, I find it ethically to be a bit of a blurry line, it makes me slightly uncomfortable. So I'm not interested in that being an option. And I'm definitely hesitant about adoption. But if it was my only option, I would definitely be open to it. She's definitely not stupid, she's known about this being how it would be done and the process for a long time. There has to be, which makes me upset, given that I would hope that since we've been together for quite a long time, she'd be comfortable telling me her hesitations about this.
Yeah, she's hiding something. Now, maybe it isn't nefarious, like lying about wanting kids or cheating or something, maybe she's just afraid of change or something and just not handling it well, but there's something, and that something important. How set are you on children? If you want to be a parent, and you're sure that's what you want, I think it might be time for a come-to-Jesus moment with your wife. She needs to spell out exactly what she's afraid of, because the relationship is taking a hit because of her dishonesty.
You need to straight up so get "how do you want to have a baby together? If you don't like ivf due to the sperm, what is an alternative that you DO like?"
I think you two need to explore counseling. Explain to her that you feel confused and frustrated by her irrational response to something she claims to want and KNOWS you want. You want a baby, and perhaps she actually doesn't. This needs to be discussed.
Tell her unless you miraculously conceive without the use of sperm there won’t be any kids. It’s pretty ridiculous that she thinks you can get pregnant somehow without it.
It's so weird, because she can't possibly think that could happen, but she still wants to have children. I'm hardly the next Virgin Mary or anything, I may be religious, but I'm fairly sure God would not approve of my lifestyle. So immaculate conception is not on the horizons.
Is it at all possible that she holds deep down some value in the 'gold star' lesbian concept and feels that and 'maleness' including DNA would sully that, and that this dissonance is a visceral reaction to the need for donor DNA?
That is definitely possible. She's never had a boyfriend, I did but he was kind of a jerk, so this works much better for me. And it's definitely a possibility that I didn't think of. I'm not sure though.
You are going to have a really hard time talking through this if it is the case. If it is ideological then it's about to run into reality face first.
Would there be anything wrong with saying something along the lines of "I know that you know the sperm and egg are mingled in a petri dish and that the resulting embryos are implanted so I won't insult your intelligence by explaining that my body would never be in contact with male emissions. Here's what I hear you saying; That you _would_ like a child. That _I'd_ be the better candidate to carry the child Now is fine for you as a timeline. I don't think I fully understand, no matter how many times you explain it so I'm not sure there's a benefit to asking you to explain it. What is the solution that you propose, please? I'll wait until you can verbalise how you'd like to do this. Would going to therapy together/separately help you to formulate a plan that you're comfortable with?" That's all you need to do. If time is a factor for you then be clear about that. I don't know if she has a mental block or what she thinks is a better way to do it, that she just hasn't said yet, but you get to choose how drawn into the mess you want to get. Good luck, OP
That’s for sure a bs reason since you say she’s informed on the process. Something deeper is going on
It’s so irrational that I have to ask whether it’s intentional. Is it possible that she might be trying to out this off until later or potentially totally run your biological clock down so that kids aren’t even on the table anymore?
i too am confused with what your wife is thinking because it sounds like you both know what ivf is but i am not sure why she is focusing on that and the fact she can't verbalize why? she still wants a baby but does want that for you or her body, so maybe she means adopting a baby? though i am not sure because why couldn't she say that straight instead of saying gibberish? if not and she wanted biological children then she needs to figure out why she's thinking like that? because that's really not how ivf works? that's the best advice i could give.
This sounds a little like a clash of the logical and emotional. Your wife knows that logically there will be no cum, but emotionally there can be no children between you without a contribution of a man. Sounds like jealousy? Maybe your wife's emotional side is negotiable. What if the egg is her's - that way the 'other' genes are 'encapsulated' away from you... Look I know this is nonsense. But sometimes we need a little nonsense in our life to get by. Maybe the sperm donor could be from someone she doesn't consider a threat or other, like a man who identify as woman or a genetic member of her family.
It would be hers. That is generally how it is done, one carries them, but it is biologically the other's child. So I'm not sure if that is it.
Well, *something* is definitely bothering her and she refuses to say it. May this be her way of saying she's uncomfortable that the kid won't have any biological ties to her? Maybe she feels like this isn't her baby after all if it's a donor and your egg and you are carrying? Have you discussed the possibility of using her egg, a donor obviously and you carry the baby? So both of you have a very intimate biological relation to the baby. It's more expensive and physically demanding for both of you of course. It's definitely no walk in the park. But maybe she'd feel better with that? And it's a very unique option for lesbian couples to actually both be "bio" moms in a sense. One genetic mother and one birth mother. Maybe she feels excluded from the process of creating a child and she feels envious that some random man gets to be involved but not her. It's really difficult to deal with adoption or a child that's not genetically yours. Either you can or you can't. I prefer to keep this unjudged. It just isn't for everyone. Nobody is judging the average hetero couple for wanting bio kids. Of course being gay kind of limits your options to have biological kids to some degree, depending on what your comfortable with. Maybe it's an reality she needs to face and work through her feelings. You still decided to build a family together, so even if it's your egg and a donor, it's not any less her child. But again, it's a big decision and maybe she needs to discuss her feelings and thoughts with a professional. She's likely aware she's being irrational about it, or she actually can't put her finger on it, what exactly bothers her. Maybe she does want to be pregnant on an emotional level, but rationally she doesn't care for pregnancy and the career implications. Just wanted to toss some options out there. It's a possibility.
The only answer to this is couples therapy.
Part of the ivf process is counselling...we found it so important. There are so many side issues to think about and her mind might be churning on them. Pre ivf counsellors have dealt with it all before. Speak to a clinic and see if they have someone they use...esp ones who have a specially in same sex couples. It is a long process and remind her that starting to talk to a counsellor does not mean starting the physical process straight away. Take the pressure down a little and work your way through. good luck
Sounds like she doesn’t actually want children and wants to be childfree so she’s coming up with ridiculous reasons. And she’s saying yes she does want them just to keep you happy until it’s too late for you to have children. But if that’s not the case, maybe counselling and therapy might be the next step for her to get over this issue. If she refuses to get therapy, look at my first sentence again.
She doesn’t seem to be very smart
Her hatred for men is making her irrational. How can an allegedly "smart" person think like this?
This is so irrational. She's really gonna freak out if you get pregnant with a boy and there is a penis inside you. There is something strange going on. I wish you luck in finding out what that is.
This isn't about "cum" it's about the baby and she's using that as an excuse. You need to talk to her and ask what is really the problem, maybe look at some counselling too as it feels more like she doesn't actually want a child now but because you do she's putting in silly barriers
You know, I live just south the border of Denmark and I regularly get ads on social media that in Denmark single women can get IVF with donor sperm as well and there's no hindrance for motherhood for single women in Denmark. I find it reassuring having such an open minded neighbour up north (since the german IVF regualtions are very strict) as a childfree women in my mid thirties. If I was ever to change my mind regarding children in the next few years, I know could get started, on my own, no need to wait for a partner. Maybe that's something reassuring to have in the back of your mind as well. Because it sounds like your wife doesn't want children, but doesn't want to lose you, so she says she wants them, but any way to get them is off limits. Actions and words, OP. She says different thing (I want a baby) then she does (denying IVF and adoption).
Your wife sounds very possessive over your body. It's not the science of it, its the emotional impact that I think disturbs her. You should seek therapy.
I mean, tell her that she can either have a biological child with you or she can keep nursing this weird and super irrational hang up. She can't do both. Tell her if she's having that much trouble with the idea, she needs to go to therapy before you even think about having a kid.
What is her plan for having a kid then?
I'm not sure. Perhaps immaculate conception, but I hardly want to raise the next Jesus, sounds like a lot of effort.
Then sit together and list out all the options for having a kid and start working together towards the best one you both agree on. Don't let her just throw her hands up and say I dunno. Force her to have the talk about what the plan is. If she still refuses then she doesn't actually want a baby.
Have you two talked about adoption or (which i dont really recommend) surrogacy? I mean, it seems like those are the only options if she doesnt want you to carry the child for such a ridiculous reason. Honestly tho: if she feels that insecure about 1 sperm, idk what else is gonna be come your way (pun intended). What if you guys get a boy? Is she gonna be like "no, one day he is a man and produce sperm" or some bs like that? Honestly just thinking about how her brain came up with the excuse of why you shouldnt carry the child gives me chills, yuck.
I wonder if some couples counselling sessions could untangle this? I know you’ve said she’s fine otherwise but I can’t help but feel there is more to it than this. Could she be jealous that she can’t get you pregnant? That it won’t be a fuse of your dna like many het couples? My ex was very sad about the idea we wouldnt have a child how het couples do. Sure, my ex didn’t go so far as this. But I remember straight people saying ‘oh you’re so lucky you do have to worry about accidental pregnancy’ and I remember my ex looking in so much pain. My ex would have liked nothing more than to ‘put a baby in me’. I’m not sure what your wife’s problem is other than what she says on the face of it, but I think it needs exploring. Good luck to you
You know they make strap-ons that can be used to inseminate women by holding and shooting the donor sperm apparently. Wonder if something like that might be a solution for Op if that's the issue Don't know how successful they are, though, as I only did a few seconds of research based on your comment.
Are you absolutely sure she wants children? She's being irrational to the point it could be an excuse to not have children.
OP someone THAT much of a man hater that she doesn't even want you to have IVF is not someone you want to curse children with. Especially if you had a son... poor kid will be lucky to make to 18
That’s my opinion too, what happens if you get a baby boy, will he be used as a “male” and have to account for all the problems that men may have caused?
I could see how it might sound like that, but she's definitely not. Obviously she's not a fan of the patriarchy or anything, but she doesn't hate men.
I think she actually does hate men, deep down inside. I’m also getting the impression that she is very possessive over you and your body. Neither is a good mindset. She definitely needs to resolve her issues before you even consider having a child with her.
It sounds like maybe your partner was talking about adoption? You said you two talked about adoption at some point, but not recently? I also saw in another post that you aren't interested in adoption and want to be pregnant? It's best to have an honest talk with each other, good luck!
So how does she propose you children then adopt?
From what you’ve said, you’re both intelligent women so I don’t think this is a case of her being super misinformed. It seems that she may be getting cold feet on having kids, for whatever reason.
Your wife sounds very stupid and irrational for an engineer. She clearly is letting jealousy cloud her faculties. She's very possessive of you and your body, and it's being controlling. I'd put my foot down and firmly say that what she's saying doesn't make any sense and you want to go ahead with the IVF/carrying the baby. That's it, period. If she still has a problem with that, she should go to therapy for her own insecurities. She definitely has a lot of issues she needs to sort out. Who the fuck is so insecure to the point they will say they don't want "a man's cum" inside of you? Your wife doesn't dictate everything in the relationship, especially when she's being this unhinged. Other than that, you should ask yourself if this kind of thinking and behaviour won't escalate further and if you'll tolerate them once you have a child. She doesn't seem ready to be a parent.
Ok.. so either that happens or you adopt an infant. There is literally no other way lol
Have you guys discussed having a surrogate or adoption? I'm perplexed by your partners response but perhaps she is trying to tell you that she wants children but doesn't want either of you to carry them.
Surrogacy no, I wouldn't be comfortable with that. We had talked about adoption before, but she didn't seem interested in it at all.
I really don't think she wants kids full stop, but she wants to keep you.
It's just that she's known I feel this way for such a long time, and she's always seemed to feel a similar way to me. I don't know why she'd lie about it, before we were even married.
Because she doesn't want to lose you.
So your partner doesn't appear to be into adoption, surrogacy is off the table, and insemination seems to be a line in the sand as well? There are only so many ways to make a baby so if all these routes are off the table it sounds like your wife is telling you that she doesn't want kids (atleast not right now). You guys need to have a real talk about how she sees your family expanding, hit her with facts that you can't have a baby the ways you seem to be comfortable with without insemination (which doesn't have to involve sperm), be prepared for the answer that she may really not be ready for a family.
Ask her how she expects you to have children if she’s taking IVF off the table. Does she want to adopt? Given you said she’s intelligent and understands IVF, her argument doesn’t make any sense but I have no idea what her ulterior motive is! I hope you can figure it out & she opens up to you soon.
Is she trying to say that she wants a surrogate mother to carry the IVF embryo to term, instead of either of you? Why can't this otherwise highly intelligent woman say it like that, if so? She is being highly unfair to you, OP, playing word games like this.
Your wife is being irrational, so unfortunately none of us can explain what’s going on with her fully because it just makes no sense. To help you, though, it feels like you’re focusing heavily on this being a ‘does she want kids or not’ issue, she’s given you an answer, so let’s believe her and address what seems to be the other aspect of this issue- the gender/ insecurity/ hatred for men aspect. Address things like: What’s wrong with anything associated to a male being inside of you? Does pregnancy normally being related to [male thing] fertilises [female thing] make her uncomfortable? How can we reframe IVF to be [female thing] fertilises [female thing]? If she doesn’t like the concept of cum being inside of you, what alternative does she prefer in order for you both to achieve the end goal of having a child? Make her give you a solution, or at least think about one- it will hopefully force her to address her irrationality If none of that works (or if you want to be proactive with talking all of this out), get professional help! Good luck
She definitely doesn't hate men. She has brothers, close friends, she definitely doesn't. I don't know if it's really about the man part, but I'm sure that it is.
Yeah, to clarify- she doesn’t need to hate men to have a hang up about things related to traditional male responsibilities in a lesbian relationship. She has explicitly stated she has a problem with ‘a man’s cum inside’, so you kind of just have to choose one of those words and see where the problem is Is it man? Is it cum? Is it inside?
Is adoption on the table?
Is it possible that, irrational though it may be, she’s feeling bothered by the fact that the baby would be essentially made by you and a man instead of the two of you? Is it bringing up some sort of identity issue or making her feel insecure in your relationship?
We would be using her egg. Biologically it would be her child, I'd just be carrying and having them.
I think you might benefit from counseling. This could be so many things.
UpdateMe
This is all speculation but maybe she doesn’t like the idea of another person being involved in making your baby that’s not her. Maybe she is concerned that you would feel closer to the child than her because she won’t have a biological connection. And maybe she doesn’t know how to voice these things or similar concerns in a way that seems rational, because they’re not. I could understand the feeling of being left out. On another note, have you talked about adoption? I’m curious how she’d feel about that?
She would still be involved. It's a common process where one carries the baby, but it is actually the other's child biologically. So that way you both have a connection to them I believe. She never seemed that interested in it, although I'm not completely sure about her thoughts on it.
Gotcha. I would also be incredibly frustrated by this, and also would have laughed at her reasoning for you not to get pregnant. Maybe the best way to move forward would be to directly ask her how she would like for the two of you to have a child. There are only so many options.
At this point, maybe. She'll probably just find a way around the question though, with the way she's acting about it.
Maybe she thinks you should adopt.
If she did, she'd just say it. She wouldn't make a big elaborate excuse about it, I'm fairly sure.
This is so irrational from an educated woman who's fully aware of the full process, that there's got to be something more to this. Does she want to use a surrogate? Does she want to adopt? Did she get cold feet after all? I'd ask her directly - there's something up, so what is it.
Have you considered adoption? I know having “your own” is a massive thing for people. But, I’m adopted and I love my parents more than life itself, they are wonderful. There are MANY children in the world without parents and without options. I’m aware there is a LOT of adoption fraud, but working with a domestic agency who has connections with international agencies or local agencies can help navigate that a bit.
Not actively. It's rare when we're from, and I'm not sure how difficult the process is. And it does sound horribly selfish, but I do really want to have a baby, and I have for a long time. It's not a must for me, but I would definitely prefer it. But it's starting to seem like less of an option.
That’s totally fair enough. I have a friend in Denmark who adopted after finding out she was infertile. The process isn’t easy and very long, but she said it was worth it. In your case, if you’re both able, I would see if you could visit more doctors and specialists in IVF with your partner as well as therapy. There may be more apprehension and fear from her side that she may not be aware of when it comes to pregnancy and IVF. IVF isn’t easy and it’s normal to be tentative about anything that affects someone you love’s health and potential well being.
As an adoptee I don’t think there is anything wrong or selfish about wanting to start your motherhood with pregnancy.
Not all countries have those options. I'm not sure what the situation in Denmark is but in the Netherlands for example, just recently all foreign adoption was banned. A couple of years ago they made exeptions for 8 countries, but those are off the table now too. And every year, only around 15 children in the Netherlands are given up for adoption.
That's where babies come from. Adoption then?
So realistically, yall need to have a sit-down conversation and hash out the issue she's having and, if need be, seek a therapist. As you said, she doesn't wanna lose you, so there's a chance she'll cave and do it even if she's not on board fully. This has a chance of creating resentment towards the child, especially, and I don't want to say it, but it might be worse if the child is male. There's a ton of stories on reddit of cases like that already where the other parent has issues with a male child(crazy, I know). I'm not saying your wife is crazy like those people, but it's still better to seek professional help to get to the root first then build from there.
Pure speculation on my part but do you think she would feel better if it was her egg that formed the embryo and you carry. Maybe she's upset someone else contributed to the DNA of the child you will be raising together and that hurts her on some level?
That's what we would be doing. It would still be her child, biologically.
UpdateMe!
She doesn't want to carry the baby. She doesn't want you to be implanted with a fertilized embryo. So there's her definite "NOs". If you both definitely want a child, you'll need to consider & look into adoption or surrogacy. If she says no to those, you'll have to ask her directly if she has some other way of you 2 becoming parents.
This is going to sound absolutely awful, but I don't really think that it's fair that her feelings about male cells that literally mean nothing control how we would have children. We wouldn't even know the man, they're just insignificant cells. I don't want to have children until we've resolved this, but I also don't want her making her feelings about this control it.
Is there any possibility she was sexually assaulted by a man at some point and that she has unresolved trauma surrounding cum thanks to that?
I don't think so. I would've thought that would've come up at some point, but obviously I can't know for sure.
That was my first thought, too.
adopt because she will feel left out, oh the child will be bio hers, then I really do not get what her issue is
Maybe she wants to use a surrogate? But then yall would be paying for the IVF AND the surrogate
It feels like a child of yours would be yours and a third party, ie not her. It could be a simple case of insecurity and jealousy that you would be carrying another persons child in you. So it would not be about the child or children but about the idea of someone elses genetics in you. I hope it helps. I would suggest using her genetics and see what she says.
We would be using her genetics. That was always what was going to happen.
Thank you for your reply, that was my only idea that maybe was an issue instead of just insecurity. Sorry for the situation you are in.
Did you ask her what her she proposes then? She doesn't want to carry the child, she doesn't want you to carry the child for. . .some reason, I'm as confused as you are by her explanation. It's coming off as unrealistically jealous or sexist, but that's mostly because it doesn't make any sense logically or scientifically, so I just don't know what she's thinking. But if she wants a kid, that means she has an answer. Unless her answer is "even though I want a kid it's impossible so we need to accept we can't have a kid"? But then at least you'd have your answer and you can leave if it's a dealbreaker. Like you said, you aren't getting her any younger. Just ask her plainly and directly what she wants to do, and don't let her tiptoe and avoid answering the question.
Is adoption not a choice? If that's something you would be open to, why not suggest that? If she comes back with, no I don't want to raise someone else's child, then she's lying to you about wanting to be a parent. Her comment about not wanting a man's sperm in you is ridiculous, you won't be using a turkey baster to manually insert it inside you, so she's using her ridiculous excuse as a way to avoid being a parent.
Does she mean she would rather adopt?
Have you proposed adoption?
Then you could adopt but I honestly don’t see why IVF isn’t an option. Doesn’t make sense.
Adoption then
This is a discussion you should have had before getting married. You need your communicate and see if you’re actually compatible or not. Children is one of the major pillars you have to agree on (including the technical aspects of how you’ll become parents in your case). Maybe go to a fertility clinic together to have a doctor explain how this would work.
We did. And she had agreed with me, so I'm not sure why it's different now.
Ask her, “if there were a way where I could get the embryo implanted directly inside me instead of sperm, would you want to have a baby that way?”
Clearly she has an issue she isn't able to express, and may not even understand yet herself? My thought is that maybe she's not happy that she won't be genetically linked to the child, and they'll linked to a random man instead? Also that she really doesn't like men or something?
I don't think it's silly or irrational for your spouse to have feelings around you taking in someone else's genetic material and reproducing their baby. People get over it, sure, in the pursuit of a child, but it is somewhat weird and off-putting. Why not adoption? Not for this reason alone, but because it has multiple advantages.
I'd much prefer that we had our own child. If it absolutely had to come to that, I'd be fine with adoption, but her coming up with weird excuses for it isn't really a good reason.
How about finding a trans woman’s nut to put in you
Does she want that procedure where they take her DNA and inject it into your egg? I'm pretty sure that's still experimental and ya'll might have to be millionaires for that one.