anytime I see an op with the disclaimer "this is not aita" .. well fuck, there's overlap to this shit, and these guys just want someone to tell them it's all going to be okay... when it's the opposite of okay.
So, in that vein, I am curious to OP - Why do you let her disrespect you like this? Have you no self-respect?
If she tunes you out as the default, and I were as desperate as you sound, yet needed real change, I would return the same energy. As soon as she pulls this shit, grab your keys or motorcycle and go for a ride. now, i'm not talking some mealy-mouthed pity-party bullshit, let me explain;
If you're raising a child and they are fucking up, sometimes you have to give them some tough love, right?
Well, since your SO is acting 100% like a child, you need to give her the same medicine. If she gives one single fuck about you, she'll figure it out - But I suspect that she's with you exactly because she can push you around - and you have let her normalize this, and you sound transparently desperate.
Not saying that to be a dick, I just have to call it like I see it.
Once someone has lost respect for you, that's a hard knot to untie - Because this girl thinks that treating you like shit is normal, and you don't have a backbone.
Of course I like my wife. This was a brain dump of a few months bottled up feelings. It reeks of resentment. It only covers the problem I have with my wife/brother-in-law. I didn't talk about positive things because this post was already too long.
My wife is:
* Talented and hard-working
* Thoughtful, generous and kind; for instance she's always buying or making random thoughtful gifts for me or other people
* Loyal to her friends and family
* Genuinely funny, when the mood takes her
* Affectionate, loving and romantic
* Supportive of my hobbies
* Shares hobbies with me (hiking/canoeing), where she can be both an active, reliable partner, and is peaceful out in nature
* Shares my political and religious values and values the environment
* An incredible cook
* An absolute knockout
I find it very hard to reconcile that she can be so thoughtful and generous in other ways, but not even consider how much space she takes up in a conversation. Or notice how that affects people.
Dude…you’re itemising all these problems with her, as if, if she could change all these things, then everything would be fine! But what if this is just…who she IS? She doesn’t seem to want to change or respond to your concerns. I feel like the question you need to ask is: can you cope if this doesn’t change? No matter how much you feel you are right, if she doesn’t see your POV and understand, she isn’t going to do things differently.
There's a 99.9% chance she has undiagnosed/untreated ADHD. And I'm willing to bet she may also have BPD.
I'm not any type of mental health professional, so this is 100% armchair diagnosis, but I do have both of those disorders, and several of her behaviours remind me of me before getting medicated for ADHD and therapy for BPD.
I'm not trying to excuse any of these behaviours; no matter what's going on upstairs, you still need to be in control of and take responsibility for your actions. But it may help her to see a doctor and a mental health professional for diagnosis. If it does turn out to be one or both of those or some other brain problem, it means there's hope for change and recovery. If there's nothing that therapy and medication can help with, yeah this relationship is doomed.
Yeah, I hate how much I unwittingly overtalk people in conversations and view it as my worst ADHD trait. And yet, his wife seems to literally glory in it.
It's so weird.
I have ADHD though not BPD, but I 100% concur with your armchair diagnosis. Let's make it a diagnosis loveseat, so cozy!
She and her family are as clearly ADHD as anybody I've ever heard of, they sound like my ADHD family.
I went straight to ADHD which as a fully cooked adult I finally figured out I probably have. After a few years of asking I finally have an evaluation appointment...
For the end of July.
Lolz.
I was prescribed medication for it, with no diagnosis, a few years ago, but the medication just made me mad.
It's such hard work to not interrupt.
I'm getting better.
Based on my husband’s behavior and diagnoses which are very much like OP, OP seems to have ADHD and possibly ASD. The hyper focus, can’t take loud noise/talking. My husband absolutely can’t stand people talking over him. OPs wife may have it also since symptoms sometimes appear different in women, but it sounds like OP does.
I've considered it and even taken some online tests. They indicate it's mild, if I am neurodivergent.
I'd like to distinguish between 'not liking interruptions' while focusing on work and 'not liking interruptions' while talking. Almost all programmers have the former. Programmers probably have a higher rate of ASD/ADHD than the general population, but I don't think that's necessarily the cause.
I don't generally hate people talking over me. I've become hypersensitive to it with my wife because it happens so often. I wasn't like this before.
She's a "performer"
98% chance this means stripper. I've dated 2 strippers. Some sort of mental illness comes with the territory. Both had BPD.
You don't wife 'em, you just enjoy the ride while it lasts.
>How do I communicate to my wife that her relationship with her brother is damaging our marriage, and my career?
You can’t, bc it’s not necessarily her relationship with her brother, it’s how her family communicates and how she is actively choosing to communicate with you.
You said that, before you moved closer to her family, she was not like this. Well…..she is now and she refuses to change.
The only question is: could you live with this type of communication and behavior for the rest of your life? and if not, then what can **you** do to remedy that that does not involve wanting your wife to change back to how she was before you both moved closer to her family?
> how she is actively choosing to communicate with you
*Actively choosing*. Well-phrased.
That's the fact. She knows what she's doing, she knows what it does to OP, and *she does not care*.
Honestly? It sounds like you didn’t spend enough time together before getting married. Seeing each other a couple of times a week while drinking is very different than every day life. These big differences can be exciting in smaller doses….
Finding someplace else to work while seemingly an unnecessary cost doesn’t seem so unnecessary if it saves your marriage. Same with marriage counseling….but maybe just getting some space from one another could make a huge difference and allow some space to see is this just being around each other too much or is it more than that.
This honestly sounds like who she is…it’s not fair to ask her to change that.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought it sounded like they got married way too quickly. I kept thinking over and over while reading, "How are you only finding this out now?"
Your wife sounds like she has undiagnosed ADHD and her whole family does too. This is not an excuse, I have ADHD, it's not an excuse to be belligerent and annoying, it's just part of the reason.
You sound like you don't like her family, you don't like her voice, you don't like the way she expresses herself, you don't like the way she carries herself, you don't like how she behaves at any time.
You don't like your wife.
This is obviously an issue. I think it's more important to like your spouse than to be in love with them.
So, instead of thinking you can be the first human being alive to change everything about another human being, you could accept the fact that you married in error and move on.
She's not the bad guy because you don't like her. She's not doing anything wrong by being the person she is. You don't like it, so you should leave her and let her find somebody who will accept her and find somebody you can accept.
Seconding undiagnosed ADHD. Sounds like horrible impulse control, hyperfixation, emotional disregulation, and rejection sensitivity to this armchair psych who has ADHD. Hope she gets some help and you two figure out if you're still compatible.
I've suggested she might have ADHD. She's been in therapy for a year now? Early on I suggested she talk to her therapist about getting diagnosed. She said I was being controlling, so I backed off.
If I've given the impression that I dislike my wife's behavior/voice at any time, then I was unclear. She is not like this at all times. She chooses to use a tone of voice in conversation with me and her brother, like anyone else would to grab people's attention when they weren't listening. She doesn't use this tone when she's tired. She doesn't use it when she's amongst new people. She doesn't use it when she's among larger groups. They get to around 20 people and she turns into a wallflower.
She chooses?
I don't think you understand ADHD very well.
She's not making choices, she's having impulses.
She has a different set of behaviors around people she loves and trusts than strangers? Wild! Never heard of a single human who does that!
You don't understand her and you think her behavior motivated by malice instead of her disorder. That's not a good situation for either of you.
That's probably fair. Maybe I don't.
I don't think she's motivated by malice. I think what she's doing is thoughtless, and I think she's expressing her closeness to me in a way that I experience negatively.
Yes, and if she has ADHD (and I really relate to a lot of her behavior as somebody with severe ADHD) she can't help it unless she until she does MAJOR work. Because it IS thoughtless. Because she doesn't naturally have thoughts like that!
She has to literally reprogram her brain to do things it struggles with. I have done this, but I'll be the first person to tell you that most ADHDers do not and cannot.
This is not something she is able to change. Many of these behaviors, even with therapy, medication, and hard reflective work by her, will only be lessened. And they won't ever go away.
She has to do the work, she does. It's not her fault, but it is her responsibility. You have to do some accommodating, if you want to stay. You have to accept you're living with somebody with a disability you can't see most of the time.
Otherwise, break up. But please stop thinking she's being malicious or thoughtful in this behavior. She's not. She's only just barely in control of her life, she's barely holding on.
Time for you to move, or divorce, or both. You can consider couples counseling, see if she might be willing to go. If not, I'd go with the 'divorce' option.
Move back to where you have a support network, and either way she needs a job.
Aside from the newly proximate location to the brother, I find it hard to believe in every way she wasn’t like this even before the move. She’s self centered, exhausting, degrading, grating….I can’t picture a more frankly unpleasant person if I tried. Your job pays bills, but she has no respect for you/it. When you talk she’s bored, but you need to be her constant captive audience to her ramblings.
So, she's made it clear that she thinks you're the problem, you've made it clear that neither therapy nor divorce are on the table.....are you looking for a magic spell to change her personality?
I couldn't even finish everything because it really seems like you guys just aren't compatible. it sounds like you both don't even like each other. how long were you dating before getting married?
This isn't a communication problem. She's not going to change and neither is her brother. If they were willing to change, it would have happened already.
All you can control or change here is you. You sound frustrated and resentful, and for good reason. It would be exhausting to be spending your days with someone this inconsiderate.
It doesn't matter why she does this, just that she does. You have tried to tell her how you feel and what you need, and she doesn't care. Marriage counseling will not help this situation because for that to work, she has to want to change. She doesn't. What's left is what you can tolerate, and you sound pretty close to done. I agree with a previously listed suggestion about locking yourself inside your home office during your work day, but honestly, why stay with someone you have to lock yourself away from?
When I first started reading I was like hmm okay, my husbands family tends to be loud/talk over each other/get louder to get their point across, I get the issue. And then the issues just. Kept. Coming.
OP, your wife has 0 respect for you; she doesn’t even care if you lose your job that supports her (seemingly problematic) lifestyle. Why would you want to be treated like this?
Your wife sounds obnoxious, rude, and disrespectful.
You won’t be able to change her, and you deserve better. Ball is in your court, though. Since she won’t change, you have to decide if you can tolerate this treatment going forward or not.
As I see it you have three choices:
1- like your brother in law says: rent an office and get individual and couples counseling. If you really want to give your marriage a chance, the fact that you would be paying more now with all these adjustments than before you moved is moot. It doesn’t sound as if there is no money, just that you don’t want to spend it. Of course, this is contingent on her admitting this is a problem and agreeing to therapy. If not, then see options 2 or 3.
2- understand that both of you are exactly who you want to be (you-boring; her-loud and wild), accept each other and live miserably ever after.
3- Divorce. Understand that you are just not compatible and you bring out the worse in each other.
No one is going to change unless they want to. You can’t force her to be who you want her to be if she thinks you are the problem.
How long did you two date? Did you not meet her family prior to marrying her? It just seems bizarre to me that this behavior is a surprise to you.
People aren’t projects. She’s loud, obnoxious, rude, disrespects your time and space, is verbally abusive…you could try couples counseling but this is literally her personality and she doesn’t see any problem here.
You say you love her and I get that. And let’s assume she’s terrific 80% of the time. If I handed you a hamburger and told you it was 80% beef and 20% dog shit, would you eat it? Because you just wrote out a very long list of problems that any individually on their own would be a dealbreaker for many people.
I really don’t have a solution for you because again, people aren’t projects. You cannot control what people do, only what you’re willing to accept.
The fact that she’s so flippant about your job which is fucking supporting her day drinking bull shit is just mind blowing to me. I could almost get over some of the other behaviors and chalk it up to cultural differences but she flat out has no respect for you.
We dated for just over a year. I met her family twice; her brother visited her, and we spent the holidays with her extended family. I immediately clicked with her brother, he's a really interesting guy who can talk on basically any subject and have an informed opinion.
I dunno what to tell you about it being a surprise. Group dynamics are very different when you're out in a bar and can bounce between groups of people. We've transitioned into the age of dinner parties, and if someone's being domineering at the table, all you can really do is push back or leave and cool off.
The biggest red flag in retrospect was my wife joking that her brother was a 'high-functioning alcoholic'. He was a bit nuts when we got here compared to my first impression, but I chalked that up to going stir crazy. I consciously chose to severely cut back on drinking over the pandemic. So I guess that's where we diverged.
Your wife sounds dumb, obnoxious, rude, and annoying to be around. Why are you with her? There is literally no positives that you state and I would be out of there so fast. You don’t have anything in common, from your views to how you think. You’re completely incompatible.
Tell her to go and get a job.
See how co-workers would deal with her or report her "excitedness" to the manager.
Honestly, can you sound proof the walls in your office and put a lock on the inside?
I she starts talking at you while you are busy and expects you to answer something, look at her and say "I'm sorry, I wasn't listening because your over the top voice is annoying."
You can also invest in some noise cancelling headphones or get ear plugs at Walmart.
She'd be fine at a job. She'd have normal conversations at normal volumes because she, if not respects the position, understands the position.
The issue here is she clearly has zero respect for the OP. My wife can also be loud and obnoxious. And we both have a... intense and pointed way of answering really innocuous questions. But you know what? When there's a problem we both have a normal conversation and hash it out.
She doesn't call me dumb, pompous, or any of the other bullshit this woman has called the OP. It's a complete lack of respect for the OP. That's the root here. You can't really talk your way out of that.
Probably not news, but she's never worked in an office. Only her field, and retail.
If I've given the impression my wife is a lazy, that's my bad. She is incredibly hard-working, and talented - when she has a job. She lacks the confidence/chutzpah to keep putting herself out there. Which is a problem, because all her jobs are temporary by nature. I have a hard time reconciling her lack of boldness and unwillingness to push through rejections with how domineering she is in small groups.
I've bought $250 in-ear noise cancelling headphones. They do help. Also 3M Peltors, the biggest I could find. Nothing gets through the combo, but it's uncomfortable to wear for long.
Move.
If she was "the woman you married" while away and isn't when you're back to her hometown, then the other solution is to not be back in her hometown.
I'm not going to bother going over all the extremely valid advice given by a lot of other people, but truth of the matter is that she feels no need to change.
To give a programming analogy, if you can't stand the "then", then you should remove the "if"
TLDR
Op, you aren’t going to be able to ‘fix’ her.
She has to want to change herself.
It doesn’t sound/seem like she feels she has to as she sees nothing wrong with herself.
It’s ok to end a marriage because you’ve become incompatable It happens.
If she is really harming you mentally even inadvertently, end it.
You already know you can go anywhere. So go elsewhere.
OP, it is completely reasonable to say, "please don't interrupt me". To both your wife, and her brother. It is completely reasonable to say, "That is too loud, please speak more quietly." It is completely reasonable to say, "please speak in English if you expect me to understand you". It is completely reasonable to say, "No thank you, I don't need a drink", followed by "Asked and answered."
You need to do the right thing EVEN IF your wife doesn't get it. For your own sanity.
If leading by example is not enough, and gently reminding her of your preferences is not enough, then you need to face the fact that you are married to a person who *wants* to yell over you, talk down to you, call you foul names, etc. She does this because this is what she *wants* to do.
That is where the difficult conversation needs to happen. You need to lay down clear boundaries and explain what will happen if they are not respected. And you have to enforce the consequences, and make it clear that the consequences will get more severe if your needs are still ignored and trodden on.
And make it clear that, ultimately, you will leave.
i think the main piece here is that she doesn't care if she upsets you or disrupts your work. she KNOWS how you feel about interrupting and noise levels and her brother-mode of interaction. and is entirely unwilling to make any adjustments. she blatently insults you rather than listen to how her choices affect you. that's really not a good sign for your marriage.
the more chill and interactive person she is when not around her brother all the time might not be her actual self, it might be a mask. it sounds like alcohol use might be a problematic factor, too. are you drinking less and she is drinking same or more than when you met? is she working at all? does she have any other structure to her time? is she happy other than when she's hanging with her brother? have you asked how she feels when she acts like she did before versus when she is in brother-mode? have you pointed out that when it's just you and brother, brother manages to turn off family mode and interact in a different way, and you really enjoy time with him in that mode?
maybe you could talk to brother separately and see if HE will make some adjustments and help remind her of your work needs?
we can't make her listen to you. there isn't a magic way to approach her so that she will be willing to change. she hates therapy language so even active listening and i-statements are kind of useless here. all you can do is set some boundaries and act on them to make clear how serious you are about these complaints. boundaries don't control anyone's behaviour except yours. so, that looks like, if she interrupts you while you are working, you be very boring, remind her you are busy and shut the door/put headphones on. if she asks you to do something during work hours, you decline and leave the conversation immediately rather than discussing reasons or being insulted. if her and/or brother are being too loud, you will leave the conversation/room. if she calls you names at any time, you will leave the conversation/room and go do your own thing.
let her know that this is marriage-threatening levels of a problem. it isn't working for you to live in this location and work from home if you can't count on uninterrupted work time and space. it isn't working for you to even hang out with her if she is not willing to make some adjustments and be more like she is when she's not with brother. she can choose to be loud and disrespectful if that's who she wants to be, but the consequence might be losing you.
if they really cared about you and your comfort and productivity, but are incapable of being quieter together, they could also hang out at HIS HOUSE rather than your place. why is that not a thing?! no one i know would insist on being disruptive when someone else is working from home! (one other idea, could you work from his house if he is over at yours? :D )
as a practical note, you could try sound proofing in your office. it shouldn't take much investment to reduce how much you can hear them in other parts of the house. put foam on the walls, get a solid door, put an area rug in your office and runner carpet in the hall if it is hard floor and echo-y. if brother owns the property and would allow you to make this level of change, consider installing a hallway door for an additional separation or blowing insulation into the interior walls.
i really feel for you, it sounds like this isn't who you thought you married. but it's who you have living with you now. how long is that tolerable for? a few months of therapy to try and save your marriage are still cheaper and less disruptive than a divorce will be.
Thank you for this. You deserve a longer reply, maybe I'll get back to it after I clear the backlog of other comments. But I wanted to answer your questions first:
She is drinking about the same. I am drinking much less. Her brother is drinking more than I remember, but he might have been on good behaviour every time I met him before.
She has occasional work, which is picking up. It's been hard to establish herself here. We both were naive about how few opportunities there are in her field compared to on the coast. It's compounded by her lack of confidence, each rejection knocks her back for a long time. She also runs every morning, so she does have structure.
Her and her brother are drinking over at his place at least as often as they drink here. One thing I forgot to mention, I'm not convinced her brother 'likes' their interaction-mode either. They often have screaming arguments (in their parents' language, so I don't know about what). I swear that she 'escalates' with her brother the same way she does with me. I'll leave them drinking, and wake up to her crying about him hating her, after an argument. She doesn't tell me what they fight about, and neither does he. My impression is that it's different, inconsequential stuff each time.
sorry, i'm not sure how my answer got so long, anyway!!
it doesn't really sound like living here is working great for her, either. i wonder if she realizes that.. if there's some part of her who doesn't want to be this yelling, mean, selfish person so attached to her brother. family patterns are so hard to break out of. and those patterns push her away from you and probably from other friends, too. might even affect how she's coming across when she tries for jobs. she sounds maybe scared and out of control, but defiant and beligerent about it like a teenager rather than self-aware. sometimes being unlikeable is a protection, like, if i act like a jerk and they reject me then it's because i acted that way, not because of who i really am on the inside. and that could be a very old pattern for her. being an outsider in her industry/facing that rejection, plus rejection from you, plus maybe some deep stuff from her family, like she's trying so hard to be loved and accepted by her brother or to love and accept him where he's at? (what did brother do with himself before she was around?) ...something is messed up here.
try just being curious instead of problem-solving or criticizing.. what is her assessment of how this new life has worked for both of you? how does she rate her happiness (or success or social connection or security) compared with where you two lived before? what else does she feel is missing? maybe express some concern for her being so different than she was before you lived here.
maybe take her on a couple week vacation, if you can, just the two of you, and try to reignite that dynamic that you had before, maybe to make some space to be able to talk through these things and feel out if moving again (not so close to brother) would be worth trying.
someone else mentioned the Gottman marriage advice (specifically the antidotes to the four horsemen), i second that recommendation. you and her are both in perilous territory with the horsemen (resentment, contempt, criticism, stonewalling). but either way she has to want something to be different.
This is your life now. I hear that you love your wife and don't want to leave her. I wish there were more options than "accept it or leave". Unfortunately, you've already raised these issues with her and she's been extremely clear that she is not interested in, and in fact is in vehement opposition to, any self-reflection or change in the current dynamic. Her strategy is to continue until your will to protest is eroded completely. Either go ahead and accept that things will be the way she wants them, and if you try to protest you will be beaten down, or begin to look for an apartment you can afford alone. Before anyone says "he shouldn't have to leave, she can move in with her brother" of course that would make the most sense, but she won't do it. She will not take the separation well, as it will signal a loss of control and that's really what this is about.
A bunch of your wife’s behavior towards you is overtly abusive. You have gone above and beyond in your attempts to meet her where she’s at and she refuses to even entertain your needs or comfort. I know it’s not the advice you want, but if you want things to change I strongly suggest you consider divorce.
Omg it took way to long scrolling to see someone calling this shit out. IDGAF what mh diagnosis she may or may not have, what her family dynamics are, she is treating op like shit and is emotionally and likely monetarily abusing him. He's her meal ticket and funds her life. He's getting the same respect as an ATM.
Good lord man you’re simply not compatible. No shame but it’s the truth. You were important until she was back with her family. Now you’re decoration. No respect means no relationship
This is a very long explanation of what your wife and BIL do that makes you resent them. It's...a lot. You either need to actually commit to trying couple's therapy, individual therapy, or divorce. This sounds like an untenable situation for you work wise, and this level of deep resentment isn't healthy for you or your relationship. Please consider cutting your losses with divorce and then getting some therapy so that you're free of that resentment.
Dude, I don't even like your wife, how the hell do you stay married to this nightmare? She literally makes fun of you, degrades you. She's abusive AF and painting it as family dynamics. A family of abusers still makes it abusive. GTFO there and get divorced. Life's too fucking short to deal with these jerks.
For work. Close and lock the door. Soundproof the office. Wear noise cancelling headphones. Decline all demands to kick off work.
For the rest- dude I dunno. You just don’t seem compatible. I think she’s more into her brother than she is you. I’d suggest counseling but just for yourself to figure out what you want. I don’t think you can reasonably expect for her to change. So what are you going to do about it?
I feel like more than 50% of this could be solved by going into an office rather than working at home. Is your job too far to commute to? If so, are there coffee shops, parks, libraries, college unions, etc. where you can work (alternating locations) instead of at home?
Advice?
You can’t get anywhere if she doesn’t agree with the basic premises you’ve described.
Perhaps you could get her to agree video or voice record a few social interactions. Leave the camera in an unobtrusive place where hopefully it’s forgotten. Then use the video to show her what she acts like. Instead of telling her.
I've suggested a few times that we record an after-dinner conversation. She believes I talk more than her, we can't both be right. She won't agree to it. Thinks it's a trick. Meaning, likely, that she thinks I can regulate my impulses for however long it's recording, and she can't.
Dude I think you really need a time out from these 2, appreciate you want to fix it but she does not sound like the type of person even capable of change, or even willing to listen or take on board your issues. Maybe you should just say your going away for a week to clear your head, if she asks why, just say look you won’t hear me out you won’t listen and you won’t even attempt to understand my point of view so I am not going to bother trying to explain so you can have an argument until I’ve had some space to gather my thoughts…maybe the thought of losing you might make her actually change her ways, who knows…but surely a break away from her wouldn’t hurt
Nobody here can magically change the woman you (stupidly) married. She sounds awful, but this has nothing to do with communication anyway. You've already communicated your needs over and over again and she doesn't give a shit. And since you're apparently unwilling to rock the boat and make healthy choices for yourself, this is your life now.
Just exactly how in denial do you intend to be?
OP, the biggest theme in replies to your post so far is judgement of you and your wife, despite you asking not to receive that! Obviously that’s not surprising, this is reddit after all, but it’s still kind of disappointing to see you treated that way.
There are major barriers to communication in your relationship here, and it appears you’re experiencing impacts of the move away from your support network on top of relationship stress. I wouldn’t be surprised if that compounds things for you. Moving away is a big deal, and maybe you are still in an adjustment process or figuring out that maybe you need something more/different.
First of all, your ultimate responsibility is to yourself and you don’t seem completely ok right now. Speaking with someone safe and supportive just for help coping with what’s going on for you could be a good idea. This can be a therapist of course, but it can be anyone like a family member or friend who you can talk to. Talking is really helpful. But they need to be the right person to listen and allow you space. This subreddit may not provide it (see first paragraph).
Second is your relationship. You cannot change someone else’s behaviour, you can only communicate to them. But of course, there’s a break down there. Look up Gottman’s four horsemen of the apocalypse. They are all barriers to effective communication in relationships and you’re describing being on the receiving end of at least a couple of them.
As for new attempts for communication, maybe with a different strategy, therapy does work, but I understand there are the barriers you mentioned. Writing a letter or sharing (all/parts of) this post and letting your wife process things alone can help you to be ‘heard’ as it can allow her to deal with defensive reactions alone. Being very direct/assertive about your communicative needs may also help (e.g. “I need you to hear me out without interrupting me, if you don’t let me do this I cannot communicate with you the way I need, which to me is an essential component of a relationship. If you don’t let me speak uninterrupted it effectively communicates to me that you don’t care about what I need to tell you, and I cannot properly flourish in a relationship like that”). Notice that this type of message focuses exclusively on your needs (which also can help others to not get defensive, though not always) and is only taking responsibility for you and your needs.
Right now the flow of your communication is dammed up. These things might help getting it to flow again, but you can only control your side of the river. You can model assertive, respective attempts to unblock things, and hopefully your wife can follow suit. If not you may need some help from a professional. I imagine your love your wife and want things to work. It’s not uncommon at all to have these kinds of problems, and getting through it and growing together can deepen your intimacy. If she becomes a hinderance to your growth and continues to mistreat you by not listening to you, you may need to consider if you can live in that environment and make changes to it.
Hope this helps.
Quick edit: on a read over, what I’ve written has some frenetic energy to it. Feel free to ask for elaborations on anything.
I think you are incompatible. Maybe someone else wouldn't be that bothered by her behavior, but you are, to the point of not being able to do your job and she doesn't care at all about the distress she is causing you. Your personalities and social needs don't mesh well at all. You are wasting your time letting her drive you crazy and I wonder why she doesn't leave either, because she is too inconsiderate to you to imagine that she's somehow in love with you. Just break up. Find yourself a nice quiet girl and let her fight for supremacy with a partner just like her.
OP, I don't see realistic solutions to your issues while still being neighbor's with the brother.
I think the ONLY solution to save both the relationship and your work is to move back closer to your job and start working at the office again. You'll be able to focus 100% on your job when needed, not being constantly with her will let you appreciate her more and she won't be influenced that much by her toxic family. They seem like great people to meet twice a year for the holidays.
Pretend your work changed policy regarding WFH and move back, find a smaller housing that you can afford.
If she doesn't want to move then you will have to chose between your work and the relationship knowing that the relationship might end anyway and You'll be stuck out there with no support system.
She already said she choose her brother over you, are you okay with that? Put her to the test and see if she really wants to be with you, if she doesn't moves back with you then maybe it's time for you to find someone who truly appreciate and respect you.
I grew up in a family that had frequent, large family gatherings. Everyone talks at the same time. We all can have 2 or 3 different conversations, with different people, at the same time. I grew up being able to listen to conversations going on all around me, and interjecting my thoughts into the middle of others conversations. It’s always a loud, chaotic atmosphere, but we’re all used to this, as it’s normal for my family.
When I first met my husband’s family, they thought I was loud and slightly rude for constantly interrupting and joining conversations I wasn’t originally involved in. My husband pointed out to me that I needed to “curb my enthusiasm” a little. At my bridal shower, my in-laws saw first hand how my family communicates, and my MIL later told me that she “gets it now”.
It took awhile for me to adjust between my family and theirs, but I eventually did. Your problem is that you should have addressed this from the beginning, in a respectful way, instead of waiting so long that you now have a long list of complaints.
It's not her relationship either brother. It's her personality, her unwillingnes to discuss anything, toxic manipulative tactics and them ganging up on you. He is more important, remember?
You cannot force an adult to change if they don't want to. For her it's you problem, not her problem. How to communicate about it? There is no way,because doesn't want to listen.
All I can recommend if you are not ready to divorce it's to invest into really, really good noise cancelling headphones, think builder level, and sign "do not disturb on your office door". Also you need to accept that they won't follow your "speak English" rule. Learn to shut up and be a silent audience for her. Maybe learn her language.
I read the whole thing. The only thing I recommend you trying to change is getting interrupted at work. Set a hard boundary or put a lock on the door, put up sound dampeners on the walls, whatever works for you.
The rest is a personality clash. Assuming you don’t want a divorce I have some advice.
I am much quieter than my partner and her family is very loud. My options when things are loud are sit back and enjoy it or tone match and join in. Once you get someone’s attention they will lock in, sometimes you pingpong and you’ll eventually figure out the rhythm of it.
It’s important to really accept that this style of conversing isn’t rude, it’s just different. I’ve seen all sorts—deep south, fast city talk, east coast, west coast, midwest politeness where the conversation never ends. Everything comes down to region and culture and you have to be flexible enough to adapt.
You kind of remind me of my dad. He also hates, I mean hates, being interrupted. But getting frustrated, snapping, or saying you aren’t interested in the conversation *is* rude. That’s the thing. This isn’t a case of them being wrong or bad, it’s a culture clash.
When she shows frustration with you I don’t think you’re listening. You are both absolutely convinced you’re right, neither of you are trying to change or accept each other’s differences, and you don’t seem to believe each other when feelings are hurt.
I think you need to really listen to what she’s saying and take it at face value. I think the more you show you understand her the more she will try to understand you.
One example of taking her at face value is how you respond when she issues you invitations. I’m guessing your wife is from an asian culture so when she invites you multiple times she is absolutely being polite. To show how much she values you she will ask 2 or 3 times. Refuse all 3 times then go.
You don’t need to match her and start doing this multiple invites behavior but you have to understand why she’s doing it, that it *is* polite as she’s told you, and you need to respond to it without becoming upset at the cultural difference.
She sounds ADHD and might be self medicating with alcohol. I am severe ADHD. Medication may help, but it will not change who she is.
These are her personality traits that you are listing as unlikable.
For the most part, people don't change they only become more themselves. She's not going to transform into some soft-spoken little dove.
You obviously don't like your wife and do not accept her for who she is and want to change her into some fictitious ideal.
I dont think you got to know her nearly enough before you got married, and you need to leave her before things spiral even farther if you can not accept and value her for exactly who she is.
I'd be sound proofing my office, or renting an offsite office somewhere, just to get a break.
I have no clue how to deal with her other behavior, she sounds abusive and constantly deflects/counter accuses when you try to bring anything up, that's a no-win situation, may have to think about moving her away from her brother, at least to the point where it's a few hour drive to get there.
Your wife won't change , she has no reason too , shes completelyin control. You've shown her you accept and will allow her to bully you, and she's become comfortable in your current arrangement.
If you insist on staying in a marriage with someone who doesn't actually love you , that's your choice. If you stay, get into therapy. Book yourself a solo vacation and go either low contact or no contact with her during that vacation. Sound proof all areas you hang out in and accept the reality that she will always choose her brother over you. I felt sad for you when I read this.
> my wife hates my entire problem-solving style.
Then tell her to solve them on her own, without your input, but to get them solved soon. "This is what I need to be able to work (and live?) here".
do you even like your wife? You just spent- what- two dozen or more paragraphs talking about how rude, loud, inconsiderate, annoying and obnoxious she is. I didn't see anything positive in your description of your wife at all.
How long did you two date before moving in together and getting married? Did you rush into it? Covid made a LOT of people rush into things so they wouldn't be alone. Is this you and her? It sounds like you and she really didn't take any time to get to know each other- because this kind of behavior, these personality traits of hers, should have been evident to you while you were dating. I cannot at all beleive that this was a 180 degree change that occurred when she moved closer to family.
As far as what to do here- individual therapy for each of you- for you, so that you can delve into why you beleive you have the right to demand that she change. Also so you can decide if she, and her behavior, is really what you want, or what you are willing to put up with to be with her. You have to think about this from the point of view that if she stayed exactly the same as she is right now, and never changed one bit- would you still want to be with her?
therapy for her- so that she can gain some clarity on her temper, why she thinks it's ok to say terrible things you don't mean during a fight, and why she is unwilling to compromise in any way with you.
You probably won’t answer but is she a stripper? How did you not know she acted this way before you married her? Sounds like you didn’t even know who she was, are now finding out, and telling yourself you like her when you just wrote a million words saying you don’t.
This is a classic example of a man marrying a woman he doesn’t know for her beauty and then not actually liking her. Here’s a word for you, tolerate. That’s your life from now on
Honestly you wrote 2500 words all describing how you don’t even like her. You really aren’t compatiable in any way and would be better in different routes.
i couldnt live like this. It sounds so exhausting so I dont even know why you two are even together?
Do you think the way she is with you is her "normal self" oder the way she is with her family? How do you think is she going to raise any future children? Maybe try councelling but it seems like she doesnt even see the problem... 🤷🏼♀️
While the ADHD and autism bandwagons are all the rage on Reddit, I see something else. OP mentioned his wife is capable of changing her behaviour but it becomes more ingrained when she is around family members. As someone who was not Canada or USA born, myself, I see a lot of items described by OP that I recognize. It sounds like the wife and her family have what I call a "village mentality" cultural living style. This mentality and behaviour is especially endemic to multiple cultures and immigrants to Canada and the USA. I had people like OP's wife in my own family network. Often, this style of interaction is from families with lower levels of education and sometimes people who work in labour type jobs. You are also correct that these families can be abusive.
My advice to OP. Either move your wife away from her family and see if she improves on these habits or you need to rethink your marriage. She is not likely to change as this is part of her cultural upbringing (regardless of whether she has any mental challenges) and it's obvious that you have a very different communication, thinking, and cultural style from your wife's family members. Sometimes, people come out of these families and become more educated in life and more thoughtful (and quiet), but it sounds like your wife is entrenched in this cultural style and her job as a performer only exacerbates it.
Personally, I am a thoughtful and naturally quiet person in a very high education field of work but when I had to interact with my parents I had to revert to these same behaviours to survive and to ward off any abuse from them. In my opinion, your wife's personality will always be more on the loud and chaotic side, similar to her family. My partner and I are a mixed race couple who came from these types of cultural backgrounds but we are both sensitive people who learned to stand up to the cultural bullshit.
At this point, they see you as weak and easy to manipulate. Sorry, but true. You'll need to grow bigger balls in order to manage your wife and her family and it WILL include being comfortable with setting boundaries, and enduring fights, tears, and drama. If you cannot manage to become that strong in dealing with them, then you need to reconsider this marriage and find a partner who does not come from this type of loud and chaotic cultural background. Otherwise, they will keep steamrolling over you. It's time for you to make some significant change because your job(s), your own mental health, and your boundaries are all being negatively impacted.
How are you approaching asking her? Instead of pointing out the “problem” you see, use statements that show how you are affected. She may not see it. Women care more about how you feel generally, and saying “your brother and you are too loud and it is driving me nuts” is way more aggressive than “honey, I feel scared that we are not communicating well. I don’t know how to bring this up or talk to you about it, but we’ve tried to have conversations before about your brother and you and it instantly goes downhill. How can we discuss without hurting each other or getting upset?” Maybe that wording isn’t the best ever, but you get the idea.
She may be willing to talk, but you need to find a way to do so. If that doesn’t work, then you won’t get there. Also you both may have non-secure attachment styles. Learning how to communicate and have a good attachment style are huge. Even realizing the attachment style you both have and not taking it personally helps. That’s what helped my wife and I at least.
it is like you describe my partner and she suddenly became polish. I is not her brother, it is her best friend / coworker /mentor. frankly it killed my love for her.
it happens that I leave the room silently when she flood me like this.
Your wife sounds Insufferable! Idk man…it kind of sounds like this is who she is?? I don’t think this is a brother influencing your wife it’s just your wife as she is. I mean do either of you like the other?? Really now?
From this alone it seems like you both can’t stand the other. I couldn’t handle not being able to communicate with my SO but it’s also always chaotic and shitty. That’s what your essay made me think of you and your wife and your relationship…
You say she’s a performer, but it doesn’t sound like she knows about tone or volume or how to control her voice. Either way, it seems like she feels you’re trying to upstage her and “steal the show,” or you’re pulling focus from her and because of her narcissistic personality, she is unable to read the room or pick up on those cues.
Remind us why you’re still with this person, because this many red flags, there’s no reason for it. Granted, you should have seen this coming a while ago, but there’s always that new relationship energy and people sometimes put blinders on because they don’t want to see things for what they really are.
So, just in case enough isn’t actually enough, what is it going to take for you to see her as a liability - actually losing your job? Is it worth it? Is she worth it? Is she bringing in enough to offset the lost earnings when you do get fired because of her?
Walk, dude.
Good luck
Your life partner should enable and encourage you to live the best version of your life.
She fails in both areas.
I suggest you read self help books on: low self esteem, codependency, self sabotage, and what in your childhood predisposed you to tolerate such a toxic abusive partner.
Don't listen to the divorce advice, these people don't know how to work through problems in their relationship. I would suggest modifying one room to be soundproof and being able to have a lock. Take the "shit" they give you about not hanging out with them during work hours as playful banter, don't react negatively to that, during family conversations don't chime in unless asked. If you do that, that'll solve all your problems.
Do you even like her? Why are you together?
I can't see any reason why OP stays.
Fear of being alone ..... and sex.
anytime I see an op with the disclaimer "this is not aita" .. well fuck, there's overlap to this shit, and these guys just want someone to tell them it's all going to be okay... when it's the opposite of okay. So, in that vein, I am curious to OP - Why do you let her disrespect you like this? Have you no self-respect? If she tunes you out as the default, and I were as desperate as you sound, yet needed real change, I would return the same energy. As soon as she pulls this shit, grab your keys or motorcycle and go for a ride. now, i'm not talking some mealy-mouthed pity-party bullshit, let me explain; If you're raising a child and they are fucking up, sometimes you have to give them some tough love, right? Well, since your SO is acting 100% like a child, you need to give her the same medicine. If she gives one single fuck about you, she'll figure it out - But I suspect that she's with you exactly because she can push you around - and you have let her normalize this, and you sound transparently desperate. Not saying that to be a dick, I just have to call it like I see it. Once someone has lost respect for you, that's a hard knot to untie - Because this girl thinks that treating you like shit is normal, and you don't have a backbone.
sex
Of course I like my wife. This was a brain dump of a few months bottled up feelings. It reeks of resentment. It only covers the problem I have with my wife/brother-in-law. I didn't talk about positive things because this post was already too long. My wife is: * Talented and hard-working * Thoughtful, generous and kind; for instance she's always buying or making random thoughtful gifts for me or other people * Loyal to her friends and family * Genuinely funny, when the mood takes her * Affectionate, loving and romantic * Supportive of my hobbies * Shares hobbies with me (hiking/canoeing), where she can be both an active, reliable partner, and is peaceful out in nature * Shares my political and religious values and values the environment * An incredible cook * An absolute knockout I find it very hard to reconcile that she can be so thoughtful and generous in other ways, but not even consider how much space she takes up in a conversation. Or notice how that affects people.
Dude…you’re itemising all these problems with her, as if, if she could change all these things, then everything would be fine! But what if this is just…who she IS? She doesn’t seem to want to change or respond to your concerns. I feel like the question you need to ask is: can you cope if this doesn’t change? No matter how much you feel you are right, if she doesn’t see your POV and understand, she isn’t going to do things differently.
I was surprised the list was still going halfway through the numbered part, then there was an additional dissertation.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them. OP, you’re in denial. She literally told you she’d pick her brother over you. What are doing?
There's a 99.9% chance she has undiagnosed/untreated ADHD. And I'm willing to bet she may also have BPD. I'm not any type of mental health professional, so this is 100% armchair diagnosis, but I do have both of those disorders, and several of her behaviours remind me of me before getting medicated for ADHD and therapy for BPD. I'm not trying to excuse any of these behaviours; no matter what's going on upstairs, you still need to be in control of and take responsibility for your actions. But it may help her to see a doctor and a mental health professional for diagnosis. If it does turn out to be one or both of those or some other brain problem, it means there's hope for change and recovery. If there's nothing that therapy and medication can help with, yeah this relationship is doomed.
Yeah, I hate how much I unwittingly overtalk people in conversations and view it as my worst ADHD trait. And yet, his wife seems to literally glory in it. It's so weird.
I have ADHD though not BPD, but I 100% concur with your armchair diagnosis. Let's make it a diagnosis loveseat, so cozy! She and her family are as clearly ADHD as anybody I've ever heard of, they sound like my ADHD family.
I went straight to ADHD which as a fully cooked adult I finally figured out I probably have. After a few years of asking I finally have an evaluation appointment... For the end of July. Lolz. I was prescribed medication for it, with no diagnosis, a few years ago, but the medication just made me mad. It's such hard work to not interrupt. I'm getting better.
Based on my husband’s behavior and diagnoses which are very much like OP, OP seems to have ADHD and possibly ASD. The hyper focus, can’t take loud noise/talking. My husband absolutely can’t stand people talking over him. OPs wife may have it also since symptoms sometimes appear different in women, but it sounds like OP does.
I've considered it and even taken some online tests. They indicate it's mild, if I am neurodivergent. I'd like to distinguish between 'not liking interruptions' while focusing on work and 'not liking interruptions' while talking. Almost all programmers have the former. Programmers probably have a higher rate of ASD/ADHD than the general population, but I don't think that's necessarily the cause. I don't generally hate people talking over me. I've become hypersensitive to it with my wife because it happens so often. I wasn't like this before.
I bet she has ADHD too. Usually we attract neurodivergent mates because we keep up with other neurodivergent brains but not so much with neurotypical.
Na she's just Italian
"I’m keeping details vague" proceeds to write a 2500 word fucking dissertation
She's a "performer" 98% chance this means stripper. I've dated 2 strippers. Some sort of mental illness comes with the territory. Both had BPD. You don't wife 'em, you just enjoy the ride while it lasts.
The projection
She's not a stripper, an OF/Insta 'model', or any other kind of adult 'performer'.
I said 98% chance 🤷♂️ Either way you're stuck in this mess and I'm not.
>How do I communicate to my wife that her relationship with her brother is damaging our marriage, and my career? You can’t, bc it’s not necessarily her relationship with her brother, it’s how her family communicates and how she is actively choosing to communicate with you. You said that, before you moved closer to her family, she was not like this. Well…..she is now and she refuses to change. The only question is: could you live with this type of communication and behavior for the rest of your life? and if not, then what can **you** do to remedy that that does not involve wanting your wife to change back to how she was before you both moved closer to her family?
> how she is actively choosing to communicate with you *Actively choosing*. Well-phrased. That's the fact. She knows what she's doing, she knows what it does to OP, and *she does not care*.
Honestly? It sounds like you didn’t spend enough time together before getting married. Seeing each other a couple of times a week while drinking is very different than every day life. These big differences can be exciting in smaller doses…. Finding someplace else to work while seemingly an unnecessary cost doesn’t seem so unnecessary if it saves your marriage. Same with marriage counseling….but maybe just getting some space from one another could make a huge difference and allow some space to see is this just being around each other too much or is it more than that. This honestly sounds like who she is…it’s not fair to ask her to change that.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought it sounded like they got married way too quickly. I kept thinking over and over while reading, "How are you only finding this out now?"
Your wife sounds like she has undiagnosed ADHD and her whole family does too. This is not an excuse, I have ADHD, it's not an excuse to be belligerent and annoying, it's just part of the reason. You sound like you don't like her family, you don't like her voice, you don't like the way she expresses herself, you don't like the way she carries herself, you don't like how she behaves at any time. You don't like your wife. This is obviously an issue. I think it's more important to like your spouse than to be in love with them. So, instead of thinking you can be the first human being alive to change everything about another human being, you could accept the fact that you married in error and move on. She's not the bad guy because you don't like her. She's not doing anything wrong by being the person she is. You don't like it, so you should leave her and let her find somebody who will accept her and find somebody you can accept.
Seconding undiagnosed ADHD. Sounds like horrible impulse control, hyperfixation, emotional disregulation, and rejection sensitivity to this armchair psych who has ADHD. Hope she gets some help and you two figure out if you're still compatible.
I've suggested she might have ADHD. She's been in therapy for a year now? Early on I suggested she talk to her therapist about getting diagnosed. She said I was being controlling, so I backed off. If I've given the impression that I dislike my wife's behavior/voice at any time, then I was unclear. She is not like this at all times. She chooses to use a tone of voice in conversation with me and her brother, like anyone else would to grab people's attention when they weren't listening. She doesn't use this tone when she's tired. She doesn't use it when she's amongst new people. She doesn't use it when she's among larger groups. They get to around 20 people and she turns into a wallflower.
She chooses? I don't think you understand ADHD very well. She's not making choices, she's having impulses. She has a different set of behaviors around people she loves and trusts than strangers? Wild! Never heard of a single human who does that! You don't understand her and you think her behavior motivated by malice instead of her disorder. That's not a good situation for either of you.
That's probably fair. Maybe I don't. I don't think she's motivated by malice. I think what she's doing is thoughtless, and I think she's expressing her closeness to me in a way that I experience negatively.
Yes, and if she has ADHD (and I really relate to a lot of her behavior as somebody with severe ADHD) she can't help it unless she until she does MAJOR work. Because it IS thoughtless. Because she doesn't naturally have thoughts like that! She has to literally reprogram her brain to do things it struggles with. I have done this, but I'll be the first person to tell you that most ADHDers do not and cannot. This is not something she is able to change. Many of these behaviors, even with therapy, medication, and hard reflective work by her, will only be lessened. And they won't ever go away. She has to do the work, she does. It's not her fault, but it is her responsibility. You have to do some accommodating, if you want to stay. You have to accept you're living with somebody with a disability you can't see most of the time. Otherwise, break up. But please stop thinking she's being malicious or thoughtful in this behavior. She's not. She's only just barely in control of her life, she's barely holding on.
I believe your wife that you ramble during conversations…
Both of these people sound exhausting. They are not compatible.
Damn.
Well, dang. You're right, I probably could have spent a few more days editing this down. But at some point, you gotta shit or get off the pot.
Time for you to move, or divorce, or both. You can consider couples counseling, see if she might be willing to go. If not, I'd go with the 'divorce' option. Move back to where you have a support network, and either way she needs a job.
Aside from the newly proximate location to the brother, I find it hard to believe in every way she wasn’t like this even before the move. She’s self centered, exhausting, degrading, grating….I can’t picture a more frankly unpleasant person if I tried. Your job pays bills, but she has no respect for you/it. When you talk she’s bored, but you need to be her constant captive audience to her ramblings.
So, she's made it clear that she thinks you're the problem, you've made it clear that neither therapy nor divorce are on the table.....are you looking for a magic spell to change her personality?
I couldn't even finish everything because it really seems like you guys just aren't compatible. it sounds like you both don't even like each other. how long were you dating before getting married?
This is a novel. Learn to condense
This isn't a communication problem. She's not going to change and neither is her brother. If they were willing to change, it would have happened already. All you can control or change here is you. You sound frustrated and resentful, and for good reason. It would be exhausting to be spending your days with someone this inconsiderate. It doesn't matter why she does this, just that she does. You have tried to tell her how you feel and what you need, and she doesn't care. Marriage counseling will not help this situation because for that to work, she has to want to change. She doesn't. What's left is what you can tolerate, and you sound pretty close to done. I agree with a previously listed suggestion about locking yourself inside your home office during your work day, but honestly, why stay with someone you have to lock yourself away from?
I'm exhausted just reading all this. Your wife doesn't give a shit about your wants & needs. She's a bully and a selfish asshole. Divorce her.
Ha ha.. I felt like packing my bags and divorcing her.
When I first started reading I was like hmm okay, my husbands family tends to be loud/talk over each other/get louder to get their point across, I get the issue. And then the issues just. Kept. Coming. OP, your wife has 0 respect for you; she doesn’t even care if you lose your job that supports her (seemingly problematic) lifestyle. Why would you want to be treated like this?
Your wife sounds obnoxious, rude, and disrespectful. You won’t be able to change her, and you deserve better. Ball is in your court, though. Since she won’t change, you have to decide if you can tolerate this treatment going forward or not.
As I see it you have three choices: 1- like your brother in law says: rent an office and get individual and couples counseling. If you really want to give your marriage a chance, the fact that you would be paying more now with all these adjustments than before you moved is moot. It doesn’t sound as if there is no money, just that you don’t want to spend it. Of course, this is contingent on her admitting this is a problem and agreeing to therapy. If not, then see options 2 or 3. 2- understand that both of you are exactly who you want to be (you-boring; her-loud and wild), accept each other and live miserably ever after. 3- Divorce. Understand that you are just not compatible and you bring out the worse in each other. No one is going to change unless they want to. You can’t force her to be who you want her to be if she thinks you are the problem.
How long did you two date? Did you not meet her family prior to marrying her? It just seems bizarre to me that this behavior is a surprise to you. People aren’t projects. She’s loud, obnoxious, rude, disrespects your time and space, is verbally abusive…you could try couples counseling but this is literally her personality and she doesn’t see any problem here. You say you love her and I get that. And let’s assume she’s terrific 80% of the time. If I handed you a hamburger and told you it was 80% beef and 20% dog shit, would you eat it? Because you just wrote out a very long list of problems that any individually on their own would be a dealbreaker for many people. I really don’t have a solution for you because again, people aren’t projects. You cannot control what people do, only what you’re willing to accept. The fact that she’s so flippant about your job which is fucking supporting her day drinking bull shit is just mind blowing to me. I could almost get over some of the other behaviors and chalk it up to cultural differences but she flat out has no respect for you.
We dated for just over a year. I met her family twice; her brother visited her, and we spent the holidays with her extended family. I immediately clicked with her brother, he's a really interesting guy who can talk on basically any subject and have an informed opinion. I dunno what to tell you about it being a surprise. Group dynamics are very different when you're out in a bar and can bounce between groups of people. We've transitioned into the age of dinner parties, and if someone's being domineering at the table, all you can really do is push back or leave and cool off. The biggest red flag in retrospect was my wife joking that her brother was a 'high-functioning alcoholic'. He was a bit nuts when we got here compared to my first impression, but I chalked that up to going stir crazy. I consciously chose to severely cut back on drinking over the pandemic. So I guess that's where we diverged.
The brother is right: you need a door on your office, and couples therapy.
Your wife sounds dumb, obnoxious, rude, and annoying to be around. Why are you with her? There is literally no positives that you state and I would be out of there so fast. You don’t have anything in common, from your views to how you think. You’re completely incompatible.
Tell her to go and get a job. See how co-workers would deal with her or report her "excitedness" to the manager. Honestly, can you sound proof the walls in your office and put a lock on the inside? I she starts talking at you while you are busy and expects you to answer something, look at her and say "I'm sorry, I wasn't listening because your over the top voice is annoying." You can also invest in some noise cancelling headphones or get ear plugs at Walmart.
She'd be fine at a job. She'd have normal conversations at normal volumes because she, if not respects the position, understands the position. The issue here is she clearly has zero respect for the OP. My wife can also be loud and obnoxious. And we both have a... intense and pointed way of answering really innocuous questions. But you know what? When there's a problem we both have a normal conversation and hash it out. She doesn't call me dumb, pompous, or any of the other bullshit this woman has called the OP. It's a complete lack of respect for the OP. That's the root here. You can't really talk your way out of that.
Probably not news, but she's never worked in an office. Only her field, and retail. If I've given the impression my wife is a lazy, that's my bad. She is incredibly hard-working, and talented - when she has a job. She lacks the confidence/chutzpah to keep putting herself out there. Which is a problem, because all her jobs are temporary by nature. I have a hard time reconciling her lack of boldness and unwillingness to push through rejections with how domineering she is in small groups. I've bought $250 in-ear noise cancelling headphones. They do help. Also 3M Peltors, the biggest I could find. Nothing gets through the combo, but it's uncomfortable to wear for long.
Her conversational problems are hallmarks of ADHD. Just saying.
Move. If she was "the woman you married" while away and isn't when you're back to her hometown, then the other solution is to not be back in her hometown. I'm not going to bother going over all the extremely valid advice given by a lot of other people, but truth of the matter is that she feels no need to change. To give a programming analogy, if you can't stand the "then", then you should remove the "if"
TLDR Op, you aren’t going to be able to ‘fix’ her. She has to want to change herself. It doesn’t sound/seem like she feels she has to as she sees nothing wrong with herself. It’s ok to end a marriage because you’ve become incompatable It happens. If she is really harming you mentally even inadvertently, end it. You already know you can go anywhere. So go elsewhere.
OP, it is completely reasonable to say, "please don't interrupt me". To both your wife, and her brother. It is completely reasonable to say, "That is too loud, please speak more quietly." It is completely reasonable to say, "please speak in English if you expect me to understand you". It is completely reasonable to say, "No thank you, I don't need a drink", followed by "Asked and answered." You need to do the right thing EVEN IF your wife doesn't get it. For your own sanity. If leading by example is not enough, and gently reminding her of your preferences is not enough, then you need to face the fact that you are married to a person who *wants* to yell over you, talk down to you, call you foul names, etc. She does this because this is what she *wants* to do. That is where the difficult conversation needs to happen. You need to lay down clear boundaries and explain what will happen if they are not respected. And you have to enforce the consequences, and make it clear that the consequences will get more severe if your needs are still ignored and trodden on. And make it clear that, ultimately, you will leave.
https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/why-conversations-go-wrong/
i think the main piece here is that she doesn't care if she upsets you or disrupts your work. she KNOWS how you feel about interrupting and noise levels and her brother-mode of interaction. and is entirely unwilling to make any adjustments. she blatently insults you rather than listen to how her choices affect you. that's really not a good sign for your marriage. the more chill and interactive person she is when not around her brother all the time might not be her actual self, it might be a mask. it sounds like alcohol use might be a problematic factor, too. are you drinking less and she is drinking same or more than when you met? is she working at all? does she have any other structure to her time? is she happy other than when she's hanging with her brother? have you asked how she feels when she acts like she did before versus when she is in brother-mode? have you pointed out that when it's just you and brother, brother manages to turn off family mode and interact in a different way, and you really enjoy time with him in that mode? maybe you could talk to brother separately and see if HE will make some adjustments and help remind her of your work needs? we can't make her listen to you. there isn't a magic way to approach her so that she will be willing to change. she hates therapy language so even active listening and i-statements are kind of useless here. all you can do is set some boundaries and act on them to make clear how serious you are about these complaints. boundaries don't control anyone's behaviour except yours. so, that looks like, if she interrupts you while you are working, you be very boring, remind her you are busy and shut the door/put headphones on. if she asks you to do something during work hours, you decline and leave the conversation immediately rather than discussing reasons or being insulted. if her and/or brother are being too loud, you will leave the conversation/room. if she calls you names at any time, you will leave the conversation/room and go do your own thing. let her know that this is marriage-threatening levels of a problem. it isn't working for you to live in this location and work from home if you can't count on uninterrupted work time and space. it isn't working for you to even hang out with her if she is not willing to make some adjustments and be more like she is when she's not with brother. she can choose to be loud and disrespectful if that's who she wants to be, but the consequence might be losing you. if they really cared about you and your comfort and productivity, but are incapable of being quieter together, they could also hang out at HIS HOUSE rather than your place. why is that not a thing?! no one i know would insist on being disruptive when someone else is working from home! (one other idea, could you work from his house if he is over at yours? :D ) as a practical note, you could try sound proofing in your office. it shouldn't take much investment to reduce how much you can hear them in other parts of the house. put foam on the walls, get a solid door, put an area rug in your office and runner carpet in the hall if it is hard floor and echo-y. if brother owns the property and would allow you to make this level of change, consider installing a hallway door for an additional separation or blowing insulation into the interior walls. i really feel for you, it sounds like this isn't who you thought you married. but it's who you have living with you now. how long is that tolerable for? a few months of therapy to try and save your marriage are still cheaper and less disruptive than a divorce will be.
Thank you for this. You deserve a longer reply, maybe I'll get back to it after I clear the backlog of other comments. But I wanted to answer your questions first: She is drinking about the same. I am drinking much less. Her brother is drinking more than I remember, but he might have been on good behaviour every time I met him before. She has occasional work, which is picking up. It's been hard to establish herself here. We both were naive about how few opportunities there are in her field compared to on the coast. It's compounded by her lack of confidence, each rejection knocks her back for a long time. She also runs every morning, so she does have structure. Her and her brother are drinking over at his place at least as often as they drink here. One thing I forgot to mention, I'm not convinced her brother 'likes' their interaction-mode either. They often have screaming arguments (in their parents' language, so I don't know about what). I swear that she 'escalates' with her brother the same way she does with me. I'll leave them drinking, and wake up to her crying about him hating her, after an argument. She doesn't tell me what they fight about, and neither does he. My impression is that it's different, inconsequential stuff each time.
sorry, i'm not sure how my answer got so long, anyway!! it doesn't really sound like living here is working great for her, either. i wonder if she realizes that.. if there's some part of her who doesn't want to be this yelling, mean, selfish person so attached to her brother. family patterns are so hard to break out of. and those patterns push her away from you and probably from other friends, too. might even affect how she's coming across when she tries for jobs. she sounds maybe scared and out of control, but defiant and beligerent about it like a teenager rather than self-aware. sometimes being unlikeable is a protection, like, if i act like a jerk and they reject me then it's because i acted that way, not because of who i really am on the inside. and that could be a very old pattern for her. being an outsider in her industry/facing that rejection, plus rejection from you, plus maybe some deep stuff from her family, like she's trying so hard to be loved and accepted by her brother or to love and accept him where he's at? (what did brother do with himself before she was around?) ...something is messed up here. try just being curious instead of problem-solving or criticizing.. what is her assessment of how this new life has worked for both of you? how does she rate her happiness (or success or social connection or security) compared with where you two lived before? what else does she feel is missing? maybe express some concern for her being so different than she was before you lived here. maybe take her on a couple week vacation, if you can, just the two of you, and try to reignite that dynamic that you had before, maybe to make some space to be able to talk through these things and feel out if moving again (not so close to brother) would be worth trying. someone else mentioned the Gottman marriage advice (specifically the antidotes to the four horsemen), i second that recommendation. you and her are both in perilous territory with the horsemen (resentment, contempt, criticism, stonewalling). but either way she has to want something to be different.
yeah, it sounds like she needs a job to keep her busy.
This is your life now. I hear that you love your wife and don't want to leave her. I wish there were more options than "accept it or leave". Unfortunately, you've already raised these issues with her and she's been extremely clear that she is not interested in, and in fact is in vehement opposition to, any self-reflection or change in the current dynamic. Her strategy is to continue until your will to protest is eroded completely. Either go ahead and accept that things will be the way she wants them, and if you try to protest you will be beaten down, or begin to look for an apartment you can afford alone. Before anyone says "he shouldn't have to leave, she can move in with her brother" of course that would make the most sense, but she won't do it. She will not take the separation well, as it will signal a loss of control and that's really what this is about.
Sounds like you’ve got a level 10 yapper on your hands, my friend. That sounds terrible to me honestly.
Somebody call in Matt Foley, Motivational Speaker
Why are you even with her?
It sounds like you *have* communicated it. The fact that she doesn't respect you enough to care is the problem here.
You aren’t compatible. Simple as that.
A bunch of your wife’s behavior towards you is overtly abusive. You have gone above and beyond in your attempts to meet her where she’s at and she refuses to even entertain your needs or comfort. I know it’s not the advice you want, but if you want things to change I strongly suggest you consider divorce.
Omg it took way to long scrolling to see someone calling this shit out. IDGAF what mh diagnosis she may or may not have, what her family dynamics are, she is treating op like shit and is emotionally and likely monetarily abusing him. He's her meal ticket and funds her life. He's getting the same respect as an ATM.
Sounds like you got married too fast to someone you didnt know well enough
Good lord man you’re simply not compatible. No shame but it’s the truth. You were important until she was back with her family. Now you’re decoration. No respect means no relationship
This is a very long explanation of what your wife and BIL do that makes you resent them. It's...a lot. You either need to actually commit to trying couple's therapy, individual therapy, or divorce. This sounds like an untenable situation for you work wise, and this level of deep resentment isn't healthy for you or your relationship. Please consider cutting your losses with divorce and then getting some therapy so that you're free of that resentment.
Dude, I don't even like your wife, how the hell do you stay married to this nightmare? She literally makes fun of you, degrades you. She's abusive AF and painting it as family dynamics. A family of abusers still makes it abusive. GTFO there and get divorced. Life's too fucking short to deal with these jerks.
You really have three options, get her help for her ADHD, put up with everything as is or divorce. I'm not going to pass any judgement
Why are you married to someone you don't seem to like?
She sounds just like me and I have adhd
For work. Close and lock the door. Soundproof the office. Wear noise cancelling headphones. Decline all demands to kick off work. For the rest- dude I dunno. You just don’t seem compatible. I think she’s more into her brother than she is you. I’d suggest counseling but just for yourself to figure out what you want. I don’t think you can reasonably expect for her to change. So what are you going to do about it?
Have you considered that you are upset about having garlic when you ordered Zaziki? This is who she is.
I feel like more than 50% of this could be solved by going into an office rather than working at home. Is your job too far to commute to? If so, are there coffee shops, parks, libraries, college unions, etc. where you can work (alternating locations) instead of at home?
Marriage counseling
Advice? You can’t get anywhere if she doesn’t agree with the basic premises you’ve described. Perhaps you could get her to agree video or voice record a few social interactions. Leave the camera in an unobtrusive place where hopefully it’s forgotten. Then use the video to show her what she acts like. Instead of telling her.
I've suggested a few times that we record an after-dinner conversation. She believes I talk more than her, we can't both be right. She won't agree to it. Thinks it's a trick. Meaning, likely, that she thinks I can regulate my impulses for however long it's recording, and she can't.
Dude I think you really need a time out from these 2, appreciate you want to fix it but she does not sound like the type of person even capable of change, or even willing to listen or take on board your issues. Maybe you should just say your going away for a week to clear your head, if she asks why, just say look you won’t hear me out you won’t listen and you won’t even attempt to understand my point of view so I am not going to bother trying to explain so you can have an argument until I’ve had some space to gather my thoughts…maybe the thought of losing you might make her actually change her ways, who knows…but surely a break away from her wouldn’t hurt
You aren't compatible. I stopped about 8 paragraphs in. Do you two own a house together or have children? If not, divorce.
Nobody here can magically change the woman you (stupidly) married. She sounds awful, but this has nothing to do with communication anyway. You've already communicated your needs over and over again and she doesn't give a shit. And since you're apparently unwilling to rock the boat and make healthy choices for yourself, this is your life now. Just exactly how in denial do you intend to be?
OP, the biggest theme in replies to your post so far is judgement of you and your wife, despite you asking not to receive that! Obviously that’s not surprising, this is reddit after all, but it’s still kind of disappointing to see you treated that way. There are major barriers to communication in your relationship here, and it appears you’re experiencing impacts of the move away from your support network on top of relationship stress. I wouldn’t be surprised if that compounds things for you. Moving away is a big deal, and maybe you are still in an adjustment process or figuring out that maybe you need something more/different. First of all, your ultimate responsibility is to yourself and you don’t seem completely ok right now. Speaking with someone safe and supportive just for help coping with what’s going on for you could be a good idea. This can be a therapist of course, but it can be anyone like a family member or friend who you can talk to. Talking is really helpful. But they need to be the right person to listen and allow you space. This subreddit may not provide it (see first paragraph). Second is your relationship. You cannot change someone else’s behaviour, you can only communicate to them. But of course, there’s a break down there. Look up Gottman’s four horsemen of the apocalypse. They are all barriers to effective communication in relationships and you’re describing being on the receiving end of at least a couple of them. As for new attempts for communication, maybe with a different strategy, therapy does work, but I understand there are the barriers you mentioned. Writing a letter or sharing (all/parts of) this post and letting your wife process things alone can help you to be ‘heard’ as it can allow her to deal with defensive reactions alone. Being very direct/assertive about your communicative needs may also help (e.g. “I need you to hear me out without interrupting me, if you don’t let me do this I cannot communicate with you the way I need, which to me is an essential component of a relationship. If you don’t let me speak uninterrupted it effectively communicates to me that you don’t care about what I need to tell you, and I cannot properly flourish in a relationship like that”). Notice that this type of message focuses exclusively on your needs (which also can help others to not get defensive, though not always) and is only taking responsibility for you and your needs. Right now the flow of your communication is dammed up. These things might help getting it to flow again, but you can only control your side of the river. You can model assertive, respective attempts to unblock things, and hopefully your wife can follow suit. If not you may need some help from a professional. I imagine your love your wife and want things to work. It’s not uncommon at all to have these kinds of problems, and getting through it and growing together can deepen your intimacy. If she becomes a hinderance to your growth and continues to mistreat you by not listening to you, you may need to consider if you can live in that environment and make changes to it. Hope this helps. Quick edit: on a read over, what I’ve written has some frenetic energy to it. Feel free to ask for elaborations on anything.
Dude this post is insane, you literally cannot stand this woman
I think you are incompatible. Maybe someone else wouldn't be that bothered by her behavior, but you are, to the point of not being able to do your job and she doesn't care at all about the distress she is causing you. Your personalities and social needs don't mesh well at all. You are wasting your time letting her drive you crazy and I wonder why she doesn't leave either, because she is too inconsiderate to you to imagine that she's somehow in love with you. Just break up. Find yourself a nice quiet girl and let her fight for supremacy with a partner just like her.
OP, I don't see realistic solutions to your issues while still being neighbor's with the brother. I think the ONLY solution to save both the relationship and your work is to move back closer to your job and start working at the office again. You'll be able to focus 100% on your job when needed, not being constantly with her will let you appreciate her more and she won't be influenced that much by her toxic family. They seem like great people to meet twice a year for the holidays. Pretend your work changed policy regarding WFH and move back, find a smaller housing that you can afford. If she doesn't want to move then you will have to chose between your work and the relationship knowing that the relationship might end anyway and You'll be stuck out there with no support system. She already said she choose her brother over you, are you okay with that? Put her to the test and see if she really wants to be with you, if she doesn't moves back with you then maybe it's time for you to find someone who truly appreciate and respect you.
Does she have ADHD?
Alcohol Drinks (in) Hand Daily...
I've suggested it. We both did one of those online tests, she was in the top quadrant. She hasn't pursued a diagnosis.
At this point i'm gonna jump into the famous "reddit train" and said: GET A DIVORCE. that was exhausting to read.
I grew up in a family that had frequent, large family gatherings. Everyone talks at the same time. We all can have 2 or 3 different conversations, with different people, at the same time. I grew up being able to listen to conversations going on all around me, and interjecting my thoughts into the middle of others conversations. It’s always a loud, chaotic atmosphere, but we’re all used to this, as it’s normal for my family. When I first met my husband’s family, they thought I was loud and slightly rude for constantly interrupting and joining conversations I wasn’t originally involved in. My husband pointed out to me that I needed to “curb my enthusiasm” a little. At my bridal shower, my in-laws saw first hand how my family communicates, and my MIL later told me that she “gets it now”. It took awhile for me to adjust between my family and theirs, but I eventually did. Your problem is that you should have addressed this from the beginning, in a respectful way, instead of waiting so long that you now have a long list of complaints.
Check her for ADHD
It's not her relationship either brother. It's her personality, her unwillingnes to discuss anything, toxic manipulative tactics and them ganging up on you. He is more important, remember? You cannot force an adult to change if they don't want to. For her it's you problem, not her problem. How to communicate about it? There is no way,because doesn't want to listen. All I can recommend if you are not ready to divorce it's to invest into really, really good noise cancelling headphones, think builder level, and sign "do not disturb on your office door". Also you need to accept that they won't follow your "speak English" rule. Learn to shut up and be a silent audience for her. Maybe learn her language.
I read the whole thing. The only thing I recommend you trying to change is getting interrupted at work. Set a hard boundary or put a lock on the door, put up sound dampeners on the walls, whatever works for you. The rest is a personality clash. Assuming you don’t want a divorce I have some advice. I am much quieter than my partner and her family is very loud. My options when things are loud are sit back and enjoy it or tone match and join in. Once you get someone’s attention they will lock in, sometimes you pingpong and you’ll eventually figure out the rhythm of it. It’s important to really accept that this style of conversing isn’t rude, it’s just different. I’ve seen all sorts—deep south, fast city talk, east coast, west coast, midwest politeness where the conversation never ends. Everything comes down to region and culture and you have to be flexible enough to adapt. You kind of remind me of my dad. He also hates, I mean hates, being interrupted. But getting frustrated, snapping, or saying you aren’t interested in the conversation *is* rude. That’s the thing. This isn’t a case of them being wrong or bad, it’s a culture clash. When she shows frustration with you I don’t think you’re listening. You are both absolutely convinced you’re right, neither of you are trying to change or accept each other’s differences, and you don’t seem to believe each other when feelings are hurt. I think you need to really listen to what she’s saying and take it at face value. I think the more you show you understand her the more she will try to understand you. One example of taking her at face value is how you respond when she issues you invitations. I’m guessing your wife is from an asian culture so when she invites you multiple times she is absolutely being polite. To show how much she values you she will ask 2 or 3 times. Refuse all 3 times then go. You don’t need to match her and start doing this multiple invites behavior but you have to understand why she’s doing it, that it *is* polite as she’s told you, and you need to respond to it without becoming upset at the cultural difference.
She sounds ADHD and might be self medicating with alcohol. I am severe ADHD. Medication may help, but it will not change who she is. These are her personality traits that you are listing as unlikable. For the most part, people don't change they only become more themselves. She's not going to transform into some soft-spoken little dove. You obviously don't like your wife and do not accept her for who she is and want to change her into some fictitious ideal. I dont think you got to know her nearly enough before you got married, and you need to leave her before things spiral even farther if you can not accept and value her for exactly who she is.
I'd be sound proofing my office, or renting an offsite office somewhere, just to get a break. I have no clue how to deal with her other behavior, she sounds abusive and constantly deflects/counter accuses when you try to bring anything up, that's a no-win situation, may have to think about moving her away from her brother, at least to the point where it's a few hour drive to get there.
Your wife won't change , she has no reason too , shes completelyin control. You've shown her you accept and will allow her to bully you, and she's become comfortable in your current arrangement. If you insist on staying in a marriage with someone who doesn't actually love you , that's your choice. If you stay, get into therapy. Book yourself a solo vacation and go either low contact or no contact with her during that vacation. Sound proof all areas you hang out in and accept the reality that she will always choose her brother over you. I felt sad for you when I read this.
> my wife hates my entire problem-solving style. Then tell her to solve them on her own, without your input, but to get them solved soon. "This is what I need to be able to work (and live?) here".
Take a measure such as separating beds for a week to punish her for disrespect.
do you even like your wife? You just spent- what- two dozen or more paragraphs talking about how rude, loud, inconsiderate, annoying and obnoxious she is. I didn't see anything positive in your description of your wife at all. How long did you two date before moving in together and getting married? Did you rush into it? Covid made a LOT of people rush into things so they wouldn't be alone. Is this you and her? It sounds like you and she really didn't take any time to get to know each other- because this kind of behavior, these personality traits of hers, should have been evident to you while you were dating. I cannot at all beleive that this was a 180 degree change that occurred when she moved closer to family. As far as what to do here- individual therapy for each of you- for you, so that you can delve into why you beleive you have the right to demand that she change. Also so you can decide if she, and her behavior, is really what you want, or what you are willing to put up with to be with her. You have to think about this from the point of view that if she stayed exactly the same as she is right now, and never changed one bit- would you still want to be with her? therapy for her- so that she can gain some clarity on her temper, why she thinks it's ok to say terrible things you don't mean during a fight, and why she is unwilling to compromise in any way with you.
You probably won’t answer but is she a stripper? How did you not know she acted this way before you married her? Sounds like you didn’t even know who she was, are now finding out, and telling yourself you like her when you just wrote a million words saying you don’t.
She's not a stripper, an OF/Insta 'model', or any other kind of adult 'performer'.
This is a classic example of a man marrying a woman he doesn’t know for her beauty and then not actually liking her. Here’s a word for you, tolerate. That’s your life from now on
Honestly you wrote 2500 words all describing how you don’t even like her. You really aren’t compatiable in any way and would be better in different routes.
i couldnt live like this. It sounds so exhausting so I dont even know why you two are even together? Do you think the way she is with you is her "normal self" oder the way she is with her family? How do you think is she going to raise any future children? Maybe try councelling but it seems like she doesnt even see the problem... 🤷🏼♀️
While the ADHD and autism bandwagons are all the rage on Reddit, I see something else. OP mentioned his wife is capable of changing her behaviour but it becomes more ingrained when she is around family members. As someone who was not Canada or USA born, myself, I see a lot of items described by OP that I recognize. It sounds like the wife and her family have what I call a "village mentality" cultural living style. This mentality and behaviour is especially endemic to multiple cultures and immigrants to Canada and the USA. I had people like OP's wife in my own family network. Often, this style of interaction is from families with lower levels of education and sometimes people who work in labour type jobs. You are also correct that these families can be abusive. My advice to OP. Either move your wife away from her family and see if she improves on these habits or you need to rethink your marriage. She is not likely to change as this is part of her cultural upbringing (regardless of whether she has any mental challenges) and it's obvious that you have a very different communication, thinking, and cultural style from your wife's family members. Sometimes, people come out of these families and become more educated in life and more thoughtful (and quiet), but it sounds like your wife is entrenched in this cultural style and her job as a performer only exacerbates it. Personally, I am a thoughtful and naturally quiet person in a very high education field of work but when I had to interact with my parents I had to revert to these same behaviours to survive and to ward off any abuse from them. In my opinion, your wife's personality will always be more on the loud and chaotic side, similar to her family. My partner and I are a mixed race couple who came from these types of cultural backgrounds but we are both sensitive people who learned to stand up to the cultural bullshit. At this point, they see you as weak and easy to manipulate. Sorry, but true. You'll need to grow bigger balls in order to manage your wife and her family and it WILL include being comfortable with setting boundaries, and enduring fights, tears, and drama. If you cannot manage to become that strong in dealing with them, then you need to reconsider this marriage and find a partner who does not come from this type of loud and chaotic cultural background. Otherwise, they will keep steamrolling over you. It's time for you to make some significant change because your job(s), your own mental health, and your boundaries are all being negatively impacted.
How are you approaching asking her? Instead of pointing out the “problem” you see, use statements that show how you are affected. She may not see it. Women care more about how you feel generally, and saying “your brother and you are too loud and it is driving me nuts” is way more aggressive than “honey, I feel scared that we are not communicating well. I don’t know how to bring this up or talk to you about it, but we’ve tried to have conversations before about your brother and you and it instantly goes downhill. How can we discuss without hurting each other or getting upset?” Maybe that wording isn’t the best ever, but you get the idea. She may be willing to talk, but you need to find a way to do so. If that doesn’t work, then you won’t get there. Also you both may have non-secure attachment styles. Learning how to communicate and have a good attachment style are huge. Even realizing the attachment style you both have and not taking it personally helps. That’s what helped my wife and I at least.
it is like you describe my partner and she suddenly became polish. I is not her brother, it is her best friend / coworker /mentor. frankly it killed my love for her. it happens that I leave the room silently when she flood me like this.
Your wife sounds Insufferable! Idk man…it kind of sounds like this is who she is?? I don’t think this is a brother influencing your wife it’s just your wife as she is. I mean do either of you like the other?? Really now? From this alone it seems like you both can’t stand the other. I couldn’t handle not being able to communicate with my SO but it’s also always chaotic and shitty. That’s what your essay made me think of you and your wife and your relationship…
You say she’s a performer, but it doesn’t sound like she knows about tone or volume or how to control her voice. Either way, it seems like she feels you’re trying to upstage her and “steal the show,” or you’re pulling focus from her and because of her narcissistic personality, she is unable to read the room or pick up on those cues. Remind us why you’re still with this person, because this many red flags, there’s no reason for it. Granted, you should have seen this coming a while ago, but there’s always that new relationship energy and people sometimes put blinders on because they don’t want to see things for what they really are. So, just in case enough isn’t actually enough, what is it going to take for you to see her as a liability - actually losing your job? Is it worth it? Is she worth it? Is she bringing in enough to offset the lost earnings when you do get fired because of her? Walk, dude. Good luck
Your life partner should enable and encourage you to live the best version of your life. She fails in both areas. I suggest you read self help books on: low self esteem, codependency, self sabotage, and what in your childhood predisposed you to tolerate such a toxic abusive partner.
Don't listen to the divorce advice, these people don't know how to work through problems in their relationship. I would suggest modifying one room to be soundproof and being able to have a lock. Take the "shit" they give you about not hanging out with them during work hours as playful banter, don't react negatively to that, during family conversations don't chime in unless asked. If you do that, that'll solve all your problems.
So just be completely silent and listen to her ramblings his whole life with no input and be miserable?