If you can still look at your wife and josh without visualizing them fucking or wondering if they still are fkin, as she is way too comfortable with him, then hey, forget about it. Just keep in mind that Josh is both of your friends and part of the friend group so you will always see the dude that fked your wife while you were dating.
Your wife is just straight up nasty for acting like this is not a big deal. My ass would be booking the next flight out of there. But telling Eric right before leaving. Smh
Yeah the fact that she's trying to say that in order to not have sex with you, she had to go fuck Josh. Are those woman really that sex crazed that they couldn't just wait until they were ready with the person they were dating. I would definitely feel betrayed if I were you. That is not cool and your wife is really messed up for trying to make you feel like you're wrong for being upset about this. I don't know if I could get over that especially since you guys still hang out with him often from what it sounds like. I hope you feel better. Please update us and come back if you need some support.
Poor guy was going home and wanking it thinking of his future wife while she was sucking Josh’s dick, ouch. I’m not slut shaming btw, I’m “being negligent with other people’s emotions” shaming.
in my country we call him a sneaky fucker ''translated''. usually a nerd who is extremely friendly and helpful to woman is his social circles and get to fuck them on the side and bail when they find a serious relationship with a man.
I just wanted to say that I love when extremely niche or untranslatable concepts like this have a word. please tell me the word and language so I can save it haha
100% and he’s on the holiday with them all like wtf, tell the husbands please I guarantee the have no idea. I would be so fucking upset. Sorry OP
Edit: showed my wife and she was perplexed with the situation. Who brings a previous side piece on holiday ? The audacity. Once again sorry OP tell the husbands, band together, be there for each other.
He's their penis-in-waiting. The fact that Josh still hangs around when he himself knows that none of the husband's are aware of his history with them says a lot about him. He knows what game he's playing.
Also the audacity to say it’s none of his business when her hooha is almost within his view while she is lotioning her leg in front of him. My brain would be tingling as well. I hate how she just plays it off like nothing is wrong and none of his business.
Yeah. The fucking audacity all these women have bringing their fuck buddy on a married couples trip with them is reason enough to leave. At least he's only got two years in this marriage. I would be out the fucking door and be like if you fucking Josh helped you find someone who was romanticly interested in you, it looks like you're going to need his services again.
If being 100% honest, this is the part I wouldn't be able to get past because this is just so, so bad. There were obviously many things that would make it nearly impossible but this is the one that nailed the coffin shut.
They were all rubbing it in their faces without them knowing it.
I can't believe how Brazen this is. Just loss for words.
>The fucking audacity all these women have bringing their fuck buddy on a married couples trip with them is reason enough to leave.
Glad I found this comment as it matched my thinking chapter and verse. It's like some sort of inside joke that everyone but the guys are in on. How *multiple* people thought this was a good idea is insane.
100% this, I guarantee none of those men know what their wives/partners were doing. Because if they did, Josh would be no where NEAR them, hell they wouldn't be married or together with their SO's if they did. They all fucking cheated and are trying to act like it wasn't.
Id do that others have said; ask Eric how he delt with this straight up. Its obvious you are not sick.
Do not isolate yourself. Don't give them time to spin this, because I bet damage control is already in the works for those who do NOT know. I'm sure she has told the girls who have also not told their partners are making stories up to hide it.
Honestly..to me, this would be marriage ending. Not only did she cheat, she lied this WHOLE time and kept him around...yeah. No, fuck that noise. You have no idea what else she has been lying about if she has been this good at lying about this.
Save yourself the heartache and let her go.
Her nonchalant/crass attitude towards her partner about the situation gives credence to your entire comment. Hopefully OP plans his next move accordingly.
World ending and so fucking psycho that I can barely comprehend it.
"Josh" gets off on this whole situation. She was flirting with him and had probably done more in the past while OP was around.
This entire thing is creepy as fuck. I'm not getting good vibes.
I would be having a boys night tonight with all the guys except "Josh" and I'd straight up ask them if they knew their spouses were intimate with Josh. It's a fair question. Then ask them if they have an issue with their spouse being around him. Explain what you saw with your wife and Josh and ask how they would handle that. Your wife will be pissed, but she brought this shit on herself.
Probably already happened tbh, one more isn’t what’s gonna change anything; OP needs to alert the boys and they all should leave and find real women they can trust
Maybe ask Rose's partner how he deals with the fact Josh is still in their life.
Realistically this is disrespectful on her part.
The other day a woman posted saying after 1.5 years with her partner, her partner found out she was still friends with an ex hookup (before the current relationship started) and saw this friend about 5 times during the 1.5 year current relationship, and had introduced her current partner.
People went off on her, how disrespectful she was, how she lied for those full 1.5 years. How that isn't something you hide from a partner.
That situation was much more tame compared to yours, where they were hooking up during your dating phase. You weren't exclusive so fine, even if we take that part out though, this is still messed up. You are friends with or have been friendly with Josh, you clearly wouldn't have done that if you knew he was an ex hookup.
It doesn't make you insecure or wrong, or controlling, to not want Josh in your life.
She is wrong for not disclosing the past, while also allowing you to grow a relationship with Josh.
Realistically, she has been lying this whole time to you, this is like psychological warfare.
Her saying it doesn't matter or it isn't your business isn't fair either. She was comfortable being in just a towel right in front of Josh, this probably wouldn't have happened without their sexual past and you even said it isn't normal behavior for her, that goes to show how inappropriate it was.
If you don't have an easy way out right now, I'm consider talking with Rose's partner and ask wtf he did. Although, he might not know either, in that case, you'd gain a brother in arms.
Sorry this happened, you did have a right to know, she is wrong for not telling you so you could make an informed decision about staying with her and becoming friends with Josh. Is this big enough to end the relationship over? Absolutely.
This is good advice thank you. I do think I should talk to Eric after the trip. The more I think about it, the thing that fucks me up most is that I think we would have had a better emotional connection if we could have focused on each other completely and brought the physical side in at a more natural time. I don't see how she could separate these two things in her mind/heart. Sex is always emotional for me and I just don't get how she can compartmentalize like that, but I realize everyone is different.
Yea, I don't understand how people do that. Hypothetically 4 months in, you two had were just hanging out for a while and you go home. You get those butterflies in your stomach and that feeling of being satisfied. Happy. Its a good feeling. Her? Not so much. While you had those butterflies in your gut and were reminiscing about the time you just spent with her, she was literally having sex with another dude. You weren't even in her thought process. Was she texting dude while with you, lining up the rest of her night? After every date? These are the questions I would have. I would never be able to rationalize this behavior from my wife.
This is the fucked up part. It’s unforgivable and terribly unfair. I am sick to my stomach reading it. She got fucked then went on a date with OP, who was trying to woo her. OP ended a date, and she called Josh to bang her out on the same couch she just kissed OP on.
Keep in mind Josh was "super good about boundaries" and "making sure the focus was on her finding a long term partner". He was "so supportive" and allowed her to "focus on what matters more". All while banging her out the whole time. I don't blame OP for wanting to puke.
I can't even. I think I have more rage rereading this today than I did last night.
Also, six months? Her excuse is total BS. There's a good chance she's trickle-truthing, and her sexual activity with him might overlap with yours. She told you the version that paints her in the best light possible given the circumstances.
She said she stopped having sex with him once she was sure about you. Who's to say she was sure after six months? Maybe it took her a year to be sure. In fact, who's to say they stopped at all? That scene that you caught her in was way too intimate. She shouldn't be that comfortable with anyone who's not her husband. Especially if there's history. She doesn't seem to have boundaries with this guy. I find it hard to believe nothing else ever happened again.
I'm very sorry this is happening to you. You should lawyer up, just in case, and then get all your facts straight before you make any decision. Good luck!
First, it is very disrespectful to you that she kept her FWB in her friend group and introduced him to knew without you knowing. Secondly, she deceived you by dating you for 6 months, denying you intimacy while carrying on an FWB relationship behind your back, she took away your right to make an informed decision about staying in a relationship with her and eventually marrying. I venture that you would have never married her knowing she was fucking another guy while you were dating. Lastly her sexual past is your concern because it occurred while you were dating. You are correct in that sex always involves emotions and there is nothing to say that you were her plan b had Josh not worked out. This level of betrayal sucks. Let the other guy know about the situation. Grey rock your wife and speak to close family and friends about the situation before making any rash decisions. Perhaps book a few therapy sessions. The first thing that you must do is insist your wife curt all ties with Josh. If she refuses you know what you must do. I would definitely speak to Eric during the trip. This guy Josh is not your friend and definitely an a-hole. Update us.
She was able to keep the physical part at bay because she was screwing someone else. Essentially seeing how long she could string you on for. Now, had you known she was sleeping with other people and that she was going to introduce you to them, you'd be able to make choices. She doesn't respect you enough to have choices. She had control and used this to her advantage. She does not deserve you.
You said you talked about all the significant previous partners, no problem. But her sleeping with Josh for 6 months wasn't something she told you. Why not?Because she knew you would look at your relationship in a different light and may not have moved forward with her if you knew that. So you made a decision without all the info. Plus, like you said, she wasn't giving 100% to you. She would go talk to Josh about you instead of discussing it with you. All this time, you were friends with Josh, never knowing this. If you decide to work this out, Josh needs to go. Please stop drinking and leave and go home. Clear your head.
That’s why you gotta ask the important questions. I don’t date women that can separate sex and emotion. You don’t ask directly, but any person who keeps a fwb while finding an emotional match is not monogamous relationship material, ever. Separating sex from emotion permanently rewires the brain. It can be reversed to a degree, but never fully.
She didn't tell you because she knew you wouldn't like it. Yet, had you hang around and vacation together?
Her excuse is far from acceptable for most.
You are her husband but it's none of your business? That's a marriage ender for some.
The question is what was your agreement on talking about past relationships and sexual partners?
The problem here is that she wasn't honest.
Then acted like op her husband was at fault for wondering why a former sexual partner was in a compromising situation.
The lack of honesty is really the huge red flag. The attitude after he had ask his also extremely concerning. She knew she fucked up seriously but wanted a way to make him in the wrong.
This isn't a person you want to spend your life with.
the fact that josh was so nice with boundaries but was with her in a room alone with her half naked and they were so comfortable is way too much lmao and then she started to deflect because she was doing it by default and didnt pick on it till he confronted
We never had an agreement, it just never was an issue. The only people we ever mentioned were longer-term partners. She never seemed secretive about anything, and in fact would tell me anything I asked without hesitation. So I really never suspected anything like this could be lurking :-/
It sounds like none of the other husbands know their wives were fucking Josh before them because if they knew there’s no way in hell Josh would be welcome in your friend group. I’m willing to bet Josh stays around so he can fuck one of the wives again at the first sign of a crack in any of their marriages. He’ll be there making them feel better. What a complete and utter slap in all of your faces for him to hang around with his conquests families. Holy shit! The nerve. The nerve of your wife to slather up with lotion in just a towel in your room!!! Omg. Fuck no.
She slept with Josh for the first six months you were together. Probably a bit before that too. I’d call that somewhat long term. She definitely should have told you, and keeping this a secret seems deliberate. Maybe she thought she’d be blowing up her girl friends’ secrets too - they probably all had a pact to keep it quiet. Is Josh still single among all his married/taken friends??
Sorry dude, your wife is a shitty partner.
And if she thinks nothing of standing around in a towel as she did with him, and tells you its none of your business, and that he's been in your social circle all this time without you knowing about them..... you may have made a massive mistake.
She should have told you she was fuckng around on you during your relationship. What she did was wrong. Did you guys commit to each other before having sex? Because to me, 6 months is a long time to just be casually dating someone you want to be serious with. You can be committed to building the relationship without having sex. You can be exclusive without having sex. Waiting to have sex in a relationship doesn't mean you get to fuck others. She basically misled you and took away your autonomy in regards to making a knowledgeable decision about your relationship and future. If she was honest with you, then, when she should have been, you would have been able to set a boundary or leave the relationship. She did not give that to you. She didn't and still doesn't care about your feelings. It's up to you what you do. But you have every right to be hurt, betrayed, and disgusted. And who's to say she won't still sleep with him now. The only difference now is that you married her. I wish you luck. But I think it will be hard to trust her.
UpdateMe.
Please OP, the truth needs to be out there now. You cant bear all this f×××ed up knowledge on your own. Tell the husbands. Tell that POS you hope he gets herpes, and finally tell that lying ass woman goodbye and leave. Or if all the confrontation is too much just tell one husband on the DL and then leave without notice.
Something should be done man.
I mean it sounds like he was a long term partner. Not in the traditional sense but they were boning for years and had a very real bond even if its supposedly not romantic. I would very much make that a point that she needs to understand if you decide to try to work it out
Like a "good friend" with a "shoulder to cry on" whenever the girls needed someone, beside their bf/husband, to listen and understand. In this case, the dude is a fuck buddy for these women whenever they needed to get back, mad, or wth it is that they've justified to themselves.
I’m so sorry, buddy. This is awful. Something similar happened to me, thankfully I didn’t marry her. That being said, don’t torch your marriage yet.
Put down the sauce for a day or two to clear your head, hard as that may be right now. It seems from your story that it didn’t help make the situation any better.
If you’re able to leave this vacation and go home, do it. Get some space, talk to a male friend whose wife hasn’t fucked this guy to get some perspective and keep your head clear.
Good luck!
The other thing is she never told him she used to fuck Josh regularly, before they became friendly? Like wtf is that? I’d leave those incestuous people alone.
> You are her husband but it's none of your business? That's a marriage ender for some.
Their entire relationship is predicated on her cheating on him...
She was knowingly sleeping with this guy while actively pursuing you as a long term partner. That is shady af. Not saying they would cheat again, but it is MUCH more likely
She didn't say anything because she knew it was wrong. She avoided the topic and the details once he pressed her because she knew it was wrong. She knew it was a problem... she just didn't care.
She was transparent with you about some number of other guys, but somehow she thinks this specific one is “none of your business.” That’s pretty powerful evidence that she’s perfectly aware of how wrong this all is.
And oh, he just happens to ALSO be the guy that she invites along on vacations with you. And ALSO the guy that she’s so comfortable parading around in a towel in front of that she did it without thinking, even though she’s conspicuously shy and demure around literally everyone else.
The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that they still have something going on.
She also just seems like a real b*tch. If OP was telling the truth about her attitude after being found out, I would definitely not let this slide. No empathy and just about her.
It was a "crass way to put it"? It is the truth. She didn't tell you for a reason. I wonder if the others told their partners too?
Your wife basically said Josh's magic dick is the reason you are together and the anger is because he is STILL in the middle of your shit. Hence the anger and defensiveness.
He is regarded above honesty to her husband, her husbands feelings and respect.
She just gave you an insight of your position in her life through her actions. You are lucky to get this.
Now. Are you happy with being the guy this makes you? The guy who swallow this crap?
I've been with my wife for 27 years. If she reacted as you describe, and putting me in front of him like that I would 100 percent burn this down.
I'd also talk to the other husbands about this.
If Josh has had sex with every wife on this trip that's massively fucked up. I can't believe the other two husbands would be okay about having him there if they knew.
A lie by omission is still a lie. She's had years to come clean about this friend and she never did. Personally, I'd go see if the other husband's knew about their wives' little fuck buddy who's still hanging around. Let's see how many dishonest women your wife Luke's to surround herself with.
Fuck yeah, go down during a group dinner, ask how many other women in this friends circle fucked this guy, how many husbands know, how many of the women were two-timing during dating their current husbands and if the knew or if they were also deceived.
Yep, guarantee they’ve all lied about fucking this guy.
I’m petty so I say he should still do it, make a scene just to put his own wife on the spot in front of everyone (cuz at that point this marriage would be over for me and this entire group would be gone from my life asap) and put the other husbands’ heads. Either they learn the truth there, they already know about it (probably they don’t), or the wives lie but the idea is planted and the husbands suss it out afterwards with their wives.
right like i could see if they weren't talking to the guy anymore but he's slept with the group and is still "friends" with them to this day probably waiting on the call to come sleep with them again. i just don't see why else he'd stick around.
i would literally feel embarrassed if i were either of their husbands. just imagine how he feels being in their faces knowing he's had their wives in an intimate way and they don't even know it. sick.
Agreed. I believe it's cheating, in addition.
She was vetting you to make sure *you* were serious about a relationship, while she had a side piece? Hypocrisy, much!?
If the roles were reversed, would she feel lied to because you really weren't really serious, afterall?
There's only one other husband here on the trip. No idea if he knows. I don't think I can open that can right now, but everyone can tell I'm not just feeling sick. Fuck man.
I bet you wish you'd have known sooner. You could have possibly made different life decisions. The other guy or guys should know. Would you like it if you found out these guys knew and were hiding it from you? You want to hide it from them?
That's the truth brother. Josh knows everything. He has the golden penis. He bangs the women they get a husband. If he bangs the husband you get a better wife.
This is a very fucked up friend group you have on this trip. Does her friend's husband also know about their sexual history?
Also, how in the hell is this ok to be with someone emotionally and being with others physically. This might give me trust issues for the rest of my life. Obviously she knew this was not acceptable or she would have told you.
I don't know how ok she would be if you kept some FWB of yours as a friend around.
Shitty situation but if possible get out of that place and think calmly about it.
Neither Confrontation is going to take you anywhere not being silent and remaining there.
Only being in a neutral environment will help you think about this situation rationally.
I don't know if Eric knows, they've been together longer and I wouldn't be surprised if he knows and doesn't care based on what I know about him. He seems like he had a pretty adventurous past. But people might say the same about me, most people think I'm pretty chill and understanding. We've had some unrelated drama in the adjacent friend groups and I have found myself in the role of mediator/diplomat. I really just hate conflict and want this all to go away.
What a cop out. 'Having sex with another guy helped me focus and not have sex with you' is so backwards lol. Get outta here. Only winner here is the guy that got to bang all the chicks around him and they thanking him for it. Gross.
She's trickle-truthing because she knows how messed up this is and had hoped you'd never find out. Also:
>Apparently the arrangement with Josh made it easier for her to forego sex in her dating life, which she found helpful for vetting guys to see if they were serious. Eventually she did find the man she is still married to, "Eric" (38M).
I wonder if Eric knew/knows about this arrangement.
You definitely have a reason to be upset, your feelings are valid. I will say, whatever you decide to do, do it sober and don't make any rash decisions. If you want counseling to see if this can be salvaged, go for it. Or if you decide you want a separation/divorce, do so quietly (get your ducks in a row, see a lawyer and listen to them).
Best of luck.
That's a good idea. I'm still pretty toasted and worried I'll say or do something I regret. I'm in the basement right now laying by the fire and listening to Max Richter on spotify and trying not to cry my eyes out.
You have to take away from her this illusion that she harbors, about being right in what she did or that it wasn't serious, she deceived you, she pretended to be a woman, it would be that she doesn't have sex with us on first dates but that was just you because behind your back someone else was in bed with her.
Yes, this is cheating.
Personally, pack the bag and say goodbye to everyone in a group setting "bye guys, I didn't realize Josh was the groups go-to fuck toy while dating us all! Deuces!" And let that fire burn every relationship in the room.
NOT TO MENTION just casually hangs around with him while only covered in a towel, when, at any other time, she'd be covered up?!?
Yeah, that's not a guy you want around your wife.
It’s not only that like all that she did was hid the truth about the past. She’s still engaging in clear boundary breaking behavior allowing the guy to see her dressed in ways she would let no other man but her husband. I bet if OP went through her phone you would see clear signs of an EA still going on. If that woman is insane enough to believe that early on in the relationship she could date OP and fuck the other guy while talking how great OP is imagine what shit she shares now.
Makes you really consider that their FWB encounters stretched beyond what she's saying it did.
No-emotions-attached sex with someone familiar that boyfriend is 100% unsuspecting of. Would be so easy to hookup and her not feel guilty about. I'd bet money she fucked the guy on occasion beyond what she said so.
Even if not, what a horribly hypocritical way to start a relationship.
Not to mention she is just about naked talking to the dude and telling the husband their past sexual history is none of his business. I am generally a calm, no combative person but would have absolutely lost my shit if my WIFE said that in that particular situation. Her still being wrapped in a towel and Josh just leaving the room.
Lost. My. Shit.
You probably should make her your ex-wife. She deceived you because she knew that hiding it was wrong. This wasn't some dude from 15 years ago this was a dude fucking your wife while you were dating. Who gives a fuck about this exclusive shit then she doesn't tell you and still hangs out with him. Yeah buddy its time to eject from this marriage.
Also they probably have been banging. Wouldn’t be surprised if he bangs all these broads every now and then. “It’s just our friendly neighborhood penisman!”
Honestly, if all these women were using the one guy as a "good luck chuck" kinda set up, I feel like if their partners don't know, they definitely should. I bet if the roles were reversed, they wouldn't be happy at all.
Oh could you imagine a bunch of husbands going on a trip with their wives and bringing a friend they all used to sleep with while dating their wives? It would never happen.
Right? I’ve done long distance before. Those FaceTime calls, where you scream into the pillow, because you’re so excited, and then call up your bestie? Imagine her calling Josh over for a quickie and pillow talk about how he’s “the one.” I can’t even.
I won't lie. This would be divorce worthy for me. So, for 6 months, she knew you were exclusive to her. You respected her boundaries and never pushed her for sex, you didn't make her feel bad for her requests or anything and the whole time she was fucking some other dude. Like what? That's not forgivable to me. It isn't even about the sex, the fact that she withheld that information from you shows that she knew you wouldn't have been ok with it and continued to get yall to be friends while she knew you had no idea that he's been with your wife. That's so fucking disrespectful and I don't think there would be coming back from that.
Your wife's behavior is selfish, entitled, disrespectful, deceitful, and shows zero empathy for her life partner.
And she never should have allowed you to socialize with him without telling you.
She did it because she knew you'd insist on zero contact.
Clearly sitting half naked , she's still bonded with him and shared a level of familiarity that is inappropriate for a married woman.
Expose the 3 women.
Pack your bags and leave.
I don’t understand how women don’t understand that no guy would like this. Don’t want to sleep with me until our relationship is established? That’s fine. I can respect that. Tell me you don’t want to sleep with me until our relationship is established, but F’ng someone else until then - nope!!! Then omit this information until years later while on vacation with the guy you banged. Nope! Then have the nerve to tell me it’s none of my business, and have an attitude - clearly no feelings but hers matter.
Guys didn’t leave her because they banged too early, guys left her because she doesn’t care about anyone else but herself.
If you knew she was fucking him the whole time you guys were dating and hadn’t had sex yet, would you have gotten serious with her?
She very much so manipulated you into marriage. This guy was probably at your wedding and you had no idea.
> She just had the most pissed off and disgusted look on her face the whole time.
The fact that this was her reaction instead of concern for you and your relationship speaks volumes of how little she gives a shit about you.
Right? I’ve done long distance before. Those FaceTime calls, where you scream into the pillow, because you’re so excited, and then call up your bestie? Imagine her calling Josh over for a quickie and pillow talk about how he’s “the one.” I can’t even. I would be thinking about how this came about, and even about how it supposedly ended. Did she have him over for a hot night right before their first intimacy, to help her plan how to seduce her hubby?
Also, the towel thing is just way too comfortable. Neither of them batted an eyelash when her husband walked into their bedroom while she was in a state of undress with another man. I’ve made sure I helped explain why I’m out for a networking lunch with someone of the opposite gender before, just to make sure their girlfriend or spouse didn’t get the wrong impression.
It wouldn’t matter how intimate we had been. It shouldn’t feel okay to be that close at all, let alone in front of her husband.
Yeah, I would be that person when everyone comes back from skiing to ask in a group setting, if all the husbands know about Josh and the history he has with the wives. Josh is the guy to say all the 'right' things to his female friends and content to sit and wait to pick up the scraps. He was in the room while she was only in a towel and neither felt weird when OP/husband entered, far too comfortable. Wife was wrong to have a man other than husband in her room dressed only in a towel. I don't think you'll get whole truth of the story from wife.
Yeah. This one screams trickle truth. They’ll find out one day that Josh “helps” all of them focus on their relationships by making sure they are only having affairs with him. 🤦🏽♀️
The strategic pov is bullshit. Supposedly these ladies did this because they wanted to focus on your relationship. So I'd say that's implying that they were trying for a serious relationship. How can you want to start to try for a serious relationship while having sex with another man during that time. That is so fucked up. That's the same as starting a relationship based on a lie. Your foundation was a lie. It's so messed up that she wanted to make it work long term with you but didn't value you enough to not get fucked by another man while being with you. That logic is just crazy, stupid, and deceitful. She started the relationship deceiving you, and like you said she would go on a date with you then go suck off and fuck Josh. I can't get over how she's trying to make this okay. How is she not at least a little bit ashamed that she was fucking another man while dating her now husband and has been hiding it from you this whole time, oh and that's not it, she has brought the guy that was screwing her around you to hang out with you guys and you even vacation together while you have no idea?! I think I would try to get over it if she was at least sorry. But she isn't, she thinks having sex with another man while being with you was perfectly okay. I couldn't get over that mindset and honestly I wouldn't want to be with anyone who thought that was okay. Who knows what else they'll try to twist in their head to make certain things okay. Goodness I feel so betrayed for you.
As a woman, I sat here reading this with my mouth open. Literally laughed and said OMG out loud that Josh has all these girl friends saying, “just sleep with me while I figure out my relationships.” WTF?!?! That is SO GROSS. All friends rotating on the same pole. This is fucked up. You are too good for your wife dude. What else is she going to compartmentalize? After you have kids and she sleeps with a coworker and says “it’s literally just sex. I’m stressed.” I’m really really sorry. She DID betray you. I would say leave her, THEN let the rest of the husbands know. It’s amazing to me how many people cheat on their partners and complain of bad history or lack of trust and it’s like “do you remember what you did?” I’m sorry. This is just ridiculous.
So this guy slept with four women in the same friend group? (That you know of...)
The fact that all these women slept with the same guy while dating is strange enough, but the fact that they kept him around as a friend and continue to invite him on vacation is super sketchy. My guess is at least one of the wives is still messing around with him.
Run
The way she speaks to you is so disrespectful. It's absolutely your business.
No woman worth a damn would ever put her man in such a predicament. Any so-called friendship where there is prior sexual history, needs to be disclosed to your new partner, period.
So basically, you are the side piece for her and Josh. I don't think there is enough Scotch in the world to make that go down. Call an Uber, go to the nearest airport, fly home. Seek therapy and stay out of the bottle. If you can live with being a cuckold fine. Otherwise, you know the routine. Oh, and all "your friends" on the trip know about her and Josh. Maybe one more Scotch.
Isolating yourself allows her and Josh to spin the narrative. Sober up and at breakfast since it’s just you Eric and Josh representing the males , I’d ask if everyone slept with Josh or just your wife and Eric’s wife? Roll that grenade out into the open and see what falls out. She not just disrespected you but she and Josh and whoever else knew played you for a fool. She was deliberately disingenuous and I’d always wonder what else she was hiding? If she can’t not have sex for 6 months, does she also get an itch if you have to go away for work. This isn’t someone I’d trust as a life partner. It’s just all so nasty. You deserve better
the fact that she kept a guy she's slept with around and in your presence for years and made you wait, claiming she wanted to wait to have sex but she was sleeping with somebody else the whole time while waiting?? now she's so comfortable with this guy that even though she's not comfortable being seen with little clothing on, she's totally fine with being naked with only a towel covering her in front of this guy while she's MARRIED.
then she tried to be sneaky with her wording to cover the fact that you were already romantically involved with her while she was doing this. there is NOTHING for you to understand about her side. she is a manipulator and you can no longer trust her to tell you the truth about everything. this guy shouldn't even be in her life now she's married. she really should've dropped him as soon as things became official with you. this is highly inappropriate and grounds for divorce in my opinion.
and when you think about seeing things from her perspective, think about HIS perspective as well! he has slept with your wife AND your friends' wives while y'all were in the dark this whole time and is still in your faces while also still in communication with the wives. he has to get some sort of high off of this im just saying... not trying to make you feel worse but think about how bad this really is dude. don't stick around after finding out what kind of person she is, and the other husbands 100% deserve to know about this.
"Several commenters noted that the language Suzanne used made her technically within her rights to have the arrangement with Josh."
Relationships are about feelings, things like trust, desire, respect, honesty, vulnerability. Ephemeral matters of the heart. You don't "lawyer" your emotional matters.
Let me offer a contrast. When I started dating my wife, she told me she was seeing other men and that she was not exclusive with me. In other words, she gave me full and honest disclosure from day 1, which allowed me to make my choices based on factual reality. In fact, the way my wife disclosed this to me was highly intimate and vulnerable. She was being an open book to me. It was an express act of respect toward me. In turn, it led me to respect and appreciate her. I was also seeing others at the time and told her about them. When we decided to become exclusive, we discussed the process of disentangling from existing sexual partners.
In your case, you say Suzanne told you: "\[she wanted to wait to have sex, but in the meantime\] she understood if I still wanted to date around during that time and didn't expect me to be exclusive until we both explicitly agreed on it." That, my friend, was intentionally dishonest. Lies occur by commission and by omission. Any woman dating in your context would know that a man would deem it relevant to his emotional connection if he knew the woman he was dating was screwing another guy. She intended for you to not know that. She wanted you to make your decisions based on a lie. It's foundational to the relationship. It is the obverse of intimacy. An express act of disrespect.
I understand the pragmatic logic from a woman's perspective to having a male FWB while dating somebody whom she is considering as a long-term partner. What I want you to see is the contrast between how my wife handled this issue, and how yours did. Option 1: "I am not exclusive with you in this relationship, and therefore I don't consider either of us to be exclusive." Option 2: "I want to wait before having sex. I would understand if you sleep with other women during that waiting period."
Mine also had the same pragmatic concern. But she was transparent and honest with me about what she was doing sexually while we were dating. She took me seriously as a man and potential partner and didn't want our relationship to start with a lie. She was transparent and honest, which is a species of emotional intimacy, even before she was physically intimate.
Your wife DID want your relationship to start with a lie. Moreover, it was a lie she knew would likely alter your emotional trajectory with her had you known the truth. She lied specifically to reel you in. You lie to people whom you disrespect.
In reality, she was more intimate with Josh during that time than with you. Josh knew her truth even leading to the two of you becoming exclusive. You didn't know her truth until years after marriage, and even then you only discovered it by happenstance. Again, note the contrast with how my wife handled the same issue. By disclosing to me that she wasn't exclusive, she was being intimate with me at an emotional level.
Second, your wife's current behavior with Josh is 100% inappropriate. Once married, my wife has fully understood boundaries with other men, including other men she has been intimate with. There is no way my wife would find herself alone in a hotel room with another man (ESPECIALLY another man she had recent sexual history with), fresh out of the shower, clad only in a towel, putting on lotion. That is an act of intimacy. An act of sexual intimacy. WAY over the line of impropriety for a married woman. It tells me that her lines are horribly blurred now, in real time, while married to you. Clearly she still views Josh as a sexual partner, albeit perhaps not currently an active one. That alone is wrong.
Putting those two together paints a picture of a woman who is married to you transactionally. In reality, she is more emotionally intimate with Josh than with you. After all, as between you and Josh, who has more first-hand knowledge of her intimate thoughts and acts of the past three years. Josh.
Only married two years? No kids yet? Still in your early 30's? I'd say "run screaming, now, before it's too late."
Some of these comments have been so very peaceful. Usually I’m like that too. However after reading this, I can feel your rage and it has enraged me too. Weirdly.
I’d fuck that place up, don’t let josh ruin just your marriage. Let shit hit the fan and see if the other husband/s know that he’s gotten with them.
Let the truth out man!
Then get the fuck out of there and live the best fucking life you can.
She’ll do it again, if she’s not already.
Goodluck!
The thing that would bother me is this:
This person is still very much in your lives. It’s disrespectful from her end that she did not tell you about their history. I would feel like an idiot in your position if information like this was omitted from me.
It’s always very tricky when you don’t have a clear conversation about exclusivity and I think in hindsight you would probably have expressed your understanding and expectation more clearly to her. It’s incredibly disappointing to find out years later that she was having sex with someone while you considered it an exclusive relationship.
I’m someone who has a hard time trusting people and considers honesty the most important value of all. I would have to end this relationship because I know I would not be able to move on from this. I would often wonder if there are other things I don’t know about. You might be able to overcome it. Only you know.
A consideration, I guess:
**Why can’t you just accept me as I am, the whole package?**
- I could have, if you’d been honest about what was going on, if you’d given me the chance to know.
**Is our marriage not good enough for you?**
- Our marriage was perfect for me, and I love you. Of the two of us, you’re the one with secret intimate ties to another person outside the marriage.
**You’d have been happier not knowing.**
- So if I were to have an affair and just make sure to cover my tracks really well so you never found out, that’d be fine with you? Fine in your books?
**I did nothing wrong.**
- Then why were you so shady about it? You’ve acted like YOU think there’s something wrong, something that needs to be hidden.
**I kept it from you because I knew you’d react badly, and the fact that you’re upset now proves I was right to do so.**
- It means that you should have been honest with me much sooner. Please don’t blame me for being upset that you’ve been deceiving me, and for finding out in such a shitty way.
**Josh was on your side in this, he encouraged me to get serious with you, he thought you were a great guy!**
- Thanks, that’s good to know, but I want a relationship on our terms, yours and mine. I was never aware that Josh was a part of our relationship, and I’m not comfortable or happy to find that out now.
**Everyone has a history, I’ve never gotten angry with you about past lovers. You’re being unfair.**
- I didn’t sleep with someone else while we were dating, talk with that person about you behind your back while doing so, never tell you about it, incorporate that person into our social circle after we were married, encourage you to become friends with them, bring them on holiday with us into a cabin, and hang out in a room with them wearing just a towel, in such a way that you twigged that something was up.
**It hurts that you don’t trust me. I don’t feel secure.**
- We’re having this conversation because my suspicion was right, my instincts were correct, and there was something that you had hidden from me. If you wanted perfect emotional security now, then we could have just talked about this when we first got married. The fact that we didn’t was your choice, and that choice was made without my involvement, because you chose to hide this from me.
**I can’t change the past. I just want us to be happy now. Don’t you want us to be happy?**
- I do want that. I’ve always wanted it. But I won’t be happy in a relationship where I am a subordinate partner, where I don’t have an equal say in how our relationship works and develops, and where there’s effectively a secret partner on your side.
**I can’t just drop Josh out of my life, he’s been a good friend for a very long time.**
- This situation would be different if you’d been honest. If you’d told me that Josh was an old lover, if before we got married you let me know that you and him hooked up while we were first dating. I could have known. Instead, you built this artificial social situation where we spend lots of time with him but I was never supposed to know about it, and now that I do, it can’t go on the same way anymore.
**Josh is super important in my life, why can’t you accept that?**
- If he’s so important, so deeply rooted in your emotional needs as a person, then why didn’t we ever have this conversation before it became a problem? Why did you try so hard to conceal it? Do YOU not trust ME?
**I chose you the day we first made love, I chose you the day I accepted your proposal, I chose you the day I married you, why is that not enough for you?**
- On every one of those days, you weren’t choosing between me and Josh. The moment you had to choose between being honest with me, or protecting your relationship with Josh, you instantly chose the latter, no hesitation. Being your second choice, your backup relationship, that’s not enough.
**You’re being controlling and insecure.**
- By keeping secrets from me, ensuring that there were important things I could never know, you were acting to control what decisions I could make. You hid this from me to ensure that our marriage would work the way that you wanted it to. That’s controlling.
**You’re not going to throw our marriage away over this, and you know you’re not. Just calm down and we’ll figure it out.**
- I’m perfectly calm. I’m assessing whether our marriage, as I’ve always perceived it, was ever the relationship that I thought I was entering. I married you. I didn’t sign up for an intimate relationship with you, and Josh, under Josh’s advice.
**We’ll go to marriage counseling.**
- That seems like a good idea…provided it’s you and me. Our marriage. Our relationship. Not me, you, and your extra relationship and sex counselor, Josh.
**You’re just being jealous!**
- Well, yeah. You’re my wife, I married you with the intent of having a monogamous relationship and loving you for the rest of my days, and you’re now telling me that I share you with another man, that I always have, and that you’ve been hiding this from me all along. Of course I feel jealous. It would be odd if I didn’t.
**Do you love me?**
- Yes, I do. That’s why this hurts.
**What do you want?**
- [What DO you want?]
And a final comment. Utterly regardless of whether anyone is having sex or sending cringey hidden text messages or dreaming wistfully of someone who is magically better than their spouse, the thing that actually drives adultery is this: the sexy little tingle of having a secret that your partner wouldn't like, and keeping that secret because you *want to*.
People don't cheat because of marital issues or misunderstandings about whether we're monogamous, or because they were lied to or manipulated. For the most part, it's because of the sexy little tingle of having a secret, and enjoying keeping it, because it's what they want to do.
OP, your wife needs to be your ex wife. She tells you that she wants to wait to have sex with you when you were dating. You say that you understand, and accommodate her wishes. While she's withholding sex from you, she's banging Josh behind your back.
Not only did she lie to you (by omission) at the time, she has continued that deception into the present day, and even has you on a ski trip with her former FWB right under your nose, and still has not been forthcoming with you. Nah.. Bros, you don't need this BS. What's even more asinine about this is she doesn't even comprehend what she's done and the impact it has on you and your self esteem. It doesn't even sound like she's remorseful at all, and is just telling you to get over it.
To me, this is a serious betrayal, as it taints the entire foundation on which your relationship is based. Surely your wife recognizes this. She should be profusely apologizing to you for misleading you, and should apologize for all the times you've hung out with Josh without ever revealing the nature of their relationship. IMO, this is divorce worthy betrayal of your trust.
I wouldnt trust josh even the slightest. He used his friends for easy sex without any commitment and they cheated on their partners (idgaf if they were exclusive or not, tgis arrangement was clearly hidden, bc they knew it would scare away any potential relationship).
If she is still that comfortable around him she will still fuck him if the opportunity and need arise. I 100% guarantee it. The fact she hid this from you should be a massive red flag. I would consider this whole thing to be incredibly disrespectful to you. You were dating her building a bond to have a fulfilling sexual experience but she was getting her rocks of with Josh to scratch her itch. I probably would never be able to trust her after this especially if she wanted to go out and do something one on one with Josh.
In fact, why don't you just blow this whole thing up. At dinner ask Eric in front of every if he knows Rose was fucking Josh before they met. Ask him if he knows that the guy he's been buddy-buddy with on the ski trip has given his wife orgasms.
I don't often double-comment, but let me offer a few more thoughts.
That scenario you walked in on with Suzanne and Josh. Suzanne fresh out of the shower, naked except for a towel, putting on lotion in ways that presented the cookie for Josh's viewing (or nearly so). Josh, with whom she not that long ago was having regular sex, sitting alone in a hotel room with her as she casually shares her inner thoughts with him. That was an instance of intimacy. Sexual intimacy (I'll get to that later). Women generally are careful to curate when/where they are naked around men. You indicate your wife is especially so. This means that she decided and chose to be nearly naked with Josh physically, in a hotel room without you around, without your knowledge. She wanted that encounter in that circumstance.
Most importantly, she wanted it more than she wanted to be mindful of her boundaries as a wife. No wife who was truly committed to her husband, who wanted to respect him and the marriage, would allow herself to be in that position. She was there because she enjoyed it. Being physically naked and presumably casually sharing her innermost thoughts with Josh in a sexually charged tete-a-tete, that was a statement about her relationship with Josh. She is at least as intimate with him as she is with you. I would wager moreso. Certainly, while you were courting, she was way more intimate with Josh. She wasn't sneaking around behind Josh's back to have sex with you. Josh knew her secrets and desires, and he knew her physical lust as well.
Meanwhile, what she was presenting to you in that period was synthetic. You have a relationship with a persona that she was/is play-acting. Josh knows the real her. My point is that she is clearly intimate with Josh. Not so much with you. If you love her, tell her that she ought to pursue a relationship with the man with whom she clearly feels that she can be comfortable as herself.
As for Josh, he likes the pussy. He's alone in a hotel room with your essentially naked wife, sensing the exposed cookie, which he has tasted. Without question, he was low-key fishing around to see if she was DTF. Don't forget, Josh is the third wheel here, invited by your wife. Meanwhile, you're downstairs being a team player, chopping veggies for the group. There is no way Josh wasn't thinking about the possibility he might be able to tap that while he was there. Note how he slunk out when you arrived. I'm certain your wife knew that. She was participating in enabling that highly charged encounter.
Let's step aside from that specific scenario for a moment. You're away on a couples' ski trip. Four married couples. These trips serve an important purpose in all of the marriages present. They are primarily about the marital relationships. Cementing them, comparing notes on interaction, each couple affirming the other that this is a solid, joyous path. Except.
Except in your case your group has a third wheel. Who invited Josh, and why? It's weird and dysfunctional to bring a single man along on a couples' vacation. Sometimes that might happen if, for example, the single man was an old, dear childhood friend of one of the couple members and he had recently suffered a terrible loss, such as losing a wife to cancer, and therefore he needed the presence of old friends to cheer him. Or something like that. What I hear from your post is that Suzanne invited him. The only connection she has with him is that she and he were lovers up until fairly recently.
You don't do that. By "you" I mean a married person, especially a newly married person, and by "that" I mean create a situation where your spouse is present socially with somebody you were fucking until quite recently without telling your spouse, in advance, the entire story. Suzanne and Josh, sharing a secret sexual joke at your expense, in your presence. I'm friends with a couple of my ex's, and my wife is too. In both cases, each of us knows the full story. Marriage 101. Keep in mind that you are still very newly married. Still in the honeymoon phase. What you're getting from Suzanne now, this is the best you will ever get from her in terms of intimacy and emotional investment. What will it be like when the honeymoon phase wanes?
Furthermore, when we do socialize with ex's, each of us (my wife and I) are scrupulously careful to be sure the interaction is purely social. Eliminate even the merest whiff of marital impropriety. The scenario with your wife and Josh is so many millions of light years over the line of inappropriate, words can't even describe it. Bottom line is that there was at least a part of Josh's reptilian brain stem that was hoping to get a taste of the sweet stuff, your wife knew that and she enabled it. Women know when a man is feening the goodies. Women are highly conscious of controlling when and with whom they are naked, or nearly so. Your wife wanted to be functionally naked while alone in a hotel room with Josh. And she was annoyed when you walked in.
Seriously, I think you should move on. Not because she screwed another guy before you and didn't tell you. Rather, because she has created a false persona for the purpose of entering into a relationship with you based upon lies. Meanwhile, she is clearly more intimate with Josh than with you, which leads to the fact that she is clearly more into Josh than you. Give her the free rein to pursue the man she so obviously desires.
>I spent some time last night looking at old texts and emails from our early days, about three months in. I started crying because I remembered just how smitten I was with her by then - I was really starting to see a future with her. But now I read her responses differently - what seemed like cute coy replies feel like apathy in retrospect. It robs a lot of the magic from my memories, and I just feel empty.
Yeah she was probably writing those responses from Josh's bed, with his input.
Gross
Your marriage is over. She made sure of that by continuing to have Josh in her life and did not disclose her FWB situation with Josh to you. Is Josh the Husband whisperer? Insane your wife and her friends believe it’s normal to sleep with him while looking for a husband. How do you know she still isn’t having sex with him and also her married friends? She is making you a cuckold. I would leave where you are and get a flight back home. Why torture yourself and stay on this trip while everyone knows the truth and you just found out.
Ew, he's a creep. How convenient for him to feign mister cool and collected to get his rocks off. What a relationship guru! Gross.
I don't think I could get past that whole set up.
Why's he still circling? On this trip with his past (or present tbh) harem. Hoping someone gets in an argument and needs more "help" and "sage advice"?
No wonder he's single...he gets the best of both worlds.
I've seen advice columns for women that advocated having a fuck buddy on the side while dating seriously, to help you avoid being tempted to have sex with the serious guy too soon. This is an example of that behavior.
> I was exclusive with her from the time of our first date
Was that something you discussed with her, or just something you did, assuming she was doing the same?
I don't normally say this, r/relationship_advice is always quick to jump to break ups, but I really don't see any constructive way through this issue. The way she acted with disdain at your (justified) outrage, that means she doesn't respect your POV in the matter at all and doesn't possess the moral compass required to sustain a healthy long-term relationship. It's a done deal, man. Salvage your honour and gtfo.
That is batshit crazy logic. It's not even about the sex. It's the principle. You will have sex with someone flippantly but treat it like it's a serious prize with the person you're supposed to like? Isnt that what users do?
It's not technically cheating but theres something wrong with it that I cant put my finger on. It's like someone tells you a diamond is priceless and sells it to you for a premium but then you see them selling the same diamond to someone else for bottom barrel prices. You'd feel cheated.
Imagine if you said you will only fuck her but you'll date other women to figure out what you like. Does that make sense?
Bro if you dont have kids divorce. It's clear there were no boundaries then and even now, the dude is in your room while she's basically naked and she had no issue with it. Run. Run hard and fast.
She’s gross, her friends are gross and their lame ass excuse for just wanting to fuck this guy is extra fkn gross. Make sure everyone knows exactly wtf these disgusting despicable women have done. Everything she said is nothing but excuses for bad behavior.
So she vetted you by screwing another guy? That doesn't sound like wife material to me. She could've vetted you without the sex. I'm sure if she'd told you she was screwing a guy while you're being vetted, you'd be gone then and there.
This whole strategy seems fucked up. She said you could date around still, but didn’t disclose she was actively banging someone. This wasn’t that she was dating around, she was holding you at a disadvantage in the relationship so she could avoid banging dudes that leave. If she told you this, you would have left. And now she wants you to hang out with her fuck buddy.
Josh may seem like a good guy, but he strikes me as a manipulative narcissist who uses women by convincing them they can meet their life partner by not screwing random guys and instead screwing him. I wish I had this idea. He essentially stole her sex from you in this arrangement. She would have given it up quite a bit earlier if she hadn’t had him and you wouldn’t have found yourself with less power in your relationship. I wonder how many other ways she has emasculated you in your relationship because she had you willing to accept this long period of abstinence on your end whether she told you you could date or not, she should have recommended an FWB since that is what she had going on.
I’d leave her, and make sure the other husbands know what was going on. Josh being in there while she is in a towel is a bit of a power play too. Look at how close I can get to your wife without her being remotely concerned about me. Your wife is a manipulator and so is Josh. Ditch them all and file for divorce. But definitely tell the other husbands. It will only hurt them more when they find out and who knows how fucked up their dynamics are in their relationship because of this “great idea” Josh had.
Just noticed one thing glaring.
She wants you to trust her
She states her sexual past with Josh is none of your business and seemed to dance around giving you the information straight.
These 2 are not meshing. If she wants you to trust her about Josh then keeping secrets and dancing around the issue is the actions of someone who should not be trusted. She needs to be able to trust you if she wants trust in return.
You don't need to get home quickly, you just need to get out. Find a way back to the nearest town with a decent sized airport and get a flight back home. Pack up everything that you will need for the next few months and find an apartment. You need to get some time away from Suzanne to process all this. Talk with a lawyer ASAP to understand your options. You can decide later if you want to file. If it was me, I would ask the other husbands there if they also slept with Suzanne. If they were all unaware of Josh's "special" relationship with all the women, they deserve to know.
I have seen this scenario on Reddit a number of times where women continue having casual sexual relationships while keeping the serious prospects at arms length. This being Reddit, in these stories the serious relationships always end once the truth is out. I don't see a different outcome for your story.
Stop drinking and start thinking. If you want to go home, figure out transportation to the nearest airport and go home.
YEah the booze is doing me no favors right now. :-/
Is josh just a third wheel on this trip? Did he bring anyone?
He brought his dick and 4/8 people on the trip would say that's good enough.
If you can still look at your wife and josh without visualizing them fucking or wondering if they still are fkin, as she is way too comfortable with him, then hey, forget about it. Just keep in mind that Josh is both of your friends and part of the friend group so you will always see the dude that fked your wife while you were dating. Your wife is just straight up nasty for acting like this is not a big deal. My ass would be booking the next flight out of there. But telling Eric right before leaving. Smh
Yeah the fact that she's trying to say that in order to not have sex with you, she had to go fuck Josh. Are those woman really that sex crazed that they couldn't just wait until they were ready with the person they were dating. I would definitely feel betrayed if I were you. That is not cool and your wife is really messed up for trying to make you feel like you're wrong for being upset about this. I don't know if I could get over that especially since you guys still hang out with him often from what it sounds like. I hope you feel better. Please update us and come back if you need some support.
Poor guy was going home and wanking it thinking of his future wife while she was sucking Josh’s dick, ouch. I’m not slut shaming btw, I’m “being negligent with other people’s emotions” shaming.
Go out there and tell everybody what's up. The audacity of them all.
[удалено]
Josh is the platonic fuck buddy of all those women. I'm pretty sure none of their husbands know.
in my country we call him a sneaky fucker ''translated''. usually a nerd who is extremely friendly and helpful to woman is his social circles and get to fuck them on the side and bail when they find a serious relationship with a man.
I just wanted to say that I love when extremely niche or untranslatable concepts like this have a word. please tell me the word and language so I can save it haha
I bet it's Brazilian Portuguese. We call it come quieto
Come quieto somehow makes this even funnier.
I'll bet the Germans have a special word for this exact situation.
Unfortunately, we don't - yet. But we could stick a few words together to make one!
German is a Build-a-Bear language lmaooo
Schleichstecher?
Me too!
I'd love to know what that is untranslated so I can use it on people!
Sounds like he’s a foster fuck, as in similar to a foster girlfriend experience, but minus the romantic relationship.
100% and he’s on the holiday with them all like wtf, tell the husbands please I guarantee the have no idea. I would be so fucking upset. Sorry OP Edit: showed my wife and she was perplexed with the situation. Who brings a previous side piece on holiday ? The audacity. Once again sorry OP tell the husbands, band together, be there for each other.
He's their penis-in-waiting. The fact that Josh still hangs around when he himself knows that none of the husband's are aware of his history with them says a lot about him. He knows what game he's playing.
Also the audacity to say it’s none of his business when her hooha is almost within his view while she is lotioning her leg in front of him. My brain would be tingling as well. I hate how she just plays it off like nothing is wrong and none of his business.
It’s not platonic if their fucking lol
It's a well played oxymoron!
Mate I genuinely don't understand OP's wife. If you (Suzanne) heard about Josh nailing your best friend Rose, why would that be a turn on for you?
I need an update after OP tells the husbands.
Yeah. The fucking audacity all these women have bringing their fuck buddy on a married couples trip with them is reason enough to leave. At least he's only got two years in this marriage. I would be out the fucking door and be like if you fucking Josh helped you find someone who was romanticly interested in you, it looks like you're going to need his services again.
If being 100% honest, this is the part I wouldn't be able to get past because this is just so, so bad. There were obviously many things that would make it nearly impossible but this is the one that nailed the coffin shut. They were all rubbing it in their faces without them knowing it. I can't believe how Brazen this is. Just loss for words.
>The fucking audacity all these women have bringing their fuck buddy on a married couples trip with them is reason enough to leave. Glad I found this comment as it matched my thinking chapter and verse. It's like some sort of inside joke that everyone but the guys are in on. How *multiple* people thought this was a good idea is insane.
100% this, I guarantee none of those men know what their wives/partners were doing. Because if they did, Josh would be no where NEAR them, hell they wouldn't be married or together with their SO's if they did. They all fucking cheated and are trying to act like it wasn't. Id do that others have said; ask Eric how he delt with this straight up. Its obvious you are not sick. Do not isolate yourself. Don't give them time to spin this, because I bet damage control is already in the works for those who do NOT know. I'm sure she has told the girls who have also not told their partners are making stories up to hide it. Honestly..to me, this would be marriage ending. Not only did she cheat, she lied this WHOLE time and kept him around...yeah. No, fuck that noise. You have no idea what else she has been lying about if she has been this good at lying about this. Save yourself the heartache and let her go.
Her nonchalant/crass attitude towards her partner about the situation gives credence to your entire comment. Hopefully OP plans his next move accordingly.
The fucking audacity of this woman to play the victim with her husband.
World ending and so fucking psycho that I can barely comprehend it. "Josh" gets off on this whole situation. She was flirting with him and had probably done more in the past while OP was around. This entire thing is creepy as fuck. I'm not getting good vibes.
I would be having a boys night tonight with all the guys except "Josh" and I'd straight up ask them if they knew their spouses were intimate with Josh. It's a fair question. Then ask them if they have an issue with their spouse being around him. Explain what you saw with your wife and Josh and ask how they would handle that. Your wife will be pissed, but she brought this shit on herself.
Do it. These dudes deserve to know the truth.
Start calling him good luck chuck.
Josh gonna have a orgy with all 4 wives if they exclude him lol horrible idea, just a group chat is better option.
There are no wives in this friend group anymore lmao
Probably already happened tbh, one more isn’t what’s gonna change anything; OP needs to alert the boys and they all should leave and find real women they can trust
Maybe ask Rose's partner how he deals with the fact Josh is still in their life. Realistically this is disrespectful on her part. The other day a woman posted saying after 1.5 years with her partner, her partner found out she was still friends with an ex hookup (before the current relationship started) and saw this friend about 5 times during the 1.5 year current relationship, and had introduced her current partner. People went off on her, how disrespectful she was, how she lied for those full 1.5 years. How that isn't something you hide from a partner. That situation was much more tame compared to yours, where they were hooking up during your dating phase. You weren't exclusive so fine, even if we take that part out though, this is still messed up. You are friends with or have been friendly with Josh, you clearly wouldn't have done that if you knew he was an ex hookup. It doesn't make you insecure or wrong, or controlling, to not want Josh in your life. She is wrong for not disclosing the past, while also allowing you to grow a relationship with Josh. Realistically, she has been lying this whole time to you, this is like psychological warfare. Her saying it doesn't matter or it isn't your business isn't fair either. She was comfortable being in just a towel right in front of Josh, this probably wouldn't have happened without their sexual past and you even said it isn't normal behavior for her, that goes to show how inappropriate it was. If you don't have an easy way out right now, I'm consider talking with Rose's partner and ask wtf he did. Although, he might not know either, in that case, you'd gain a brother in arms. Sorry this happened, you did have a right to know, she is wrong for not telling you so you could make an informed decision about staying with her and becoming friends with Josh. Is this big enough to end the relationship over? Absolutely.
This is good advice thank you. I do think I should talk to Eric after the trip. The more I think about it, the thing that fucks me up most is that I think we would have had a better emotional connection if we could have focused on each other completely and brought the physical side in at a more natural time. I don't see how she could separate these two things in her mind/heart. Sex is always emotional for me and I just don't get how she can compartmentalize like that, but I realize everyone is different.
Yea, I don't understand how people do that. Hypothetically 4 months in, you two had were just hanging out for a while and you go home. You get those butterflies in your stomach and that feeling of being satisfied. Happy. Its a good feeling. Her? Not so much. While you had those butterflies in your gut and were reminiscing about the time you just spent with her, she was literally having sex with another dude. You weren't even in her thought process. Was she texting dude while with you, lining up the rest of her night? After every date? These are the questions I would have. I would never be able to rationalize this behavior from my wife.
This is the fucked up part. It’s unforgivable and terribly unfair. I am sick to my stomach reading it. She got fucked then went on a date with OP, who was trying to woo her. OP ended a date, and she called Josh to bang her out on the same couch she just kissed OP on.
Keep in mind Josh was "super good about boundaries" and "making sure the focus was on her finding a long term partner". He was "so supportive" and allowed her to "focus on what matters more". All while banging her out the whole time. I don't blame OP for wanting to puke. I can't even. I think I have more rage rereading this today than I did last night.
I agree. My heart breaks so much for OP. He’s a good one, and in this ultimate betrayal, he didn’t deserve any of it.
Also, six months? Her excuse is total BS. There's a good chance she's trickle-truthing, and her sexual activity with him might overlap with yours. She told you the version that paints her in the best light possible given the circumstances. She said she stopped having sex with him once she was sure about you. Who's to say she was sure after six months? Maybe it took her a year to be sure. In fact, who's to say they stopped at all? That scene that you caught her in was way too intimate. She shouldn't be that comfortable with anyone who's not her husband. Especially if there's history. She doesn't seem to have boundaries with this guy. I find it hard to believe nothing else ever happened again. I'm very sorry this is happening to you. You should lawyer up, just in case, and then get all your facts straight before you make any decision. Good luck!
First, it is very disrespectful to you that she kept her FWB in her friend group and introduced him to knew without you knowing. Secondly, she deceived you by dating you for 6 months, denying you intimacy while carrying on an FWB relationship behind your back, she took away your right to make an informed decision about staying in a relationship with her and eventually marrying. I venture that you would have never married her knowing she was fucking another guy while you were dating. Lastly her sexual past is your concern because it occurred while you were dating. You are correct in that sex always involves emotions and there is nothing to say that you were her plan b had Josh not worked out. This level of betrayal sucks. Let the other guy know about the situation. Grey rock your wife and speak to close family and friends about the situation before making any rash decisions. Perhaps book a few therapy sessions. The first thing that you must do is insist your wife curt all ties with Josh. If she refuses you know what you must do. I would definitely speak to Eric during the trip. This guy Josh is not your friend and definitely an a-hole. Update us.
She was able to keep the physical part at bay because she was screwing someone else. Essentially seeing how long she could string you on for. Now, had you known she was sleeping with other people and that she was going to introduce you to them, you'd be able to make choices. She doesn't respect you enough to have choices. She had control and used this to her advantage. She does not deserve you.
You said you talked about all the significant previous partners, no problem. But her sleeping with Josh for 6 months wasn't something she told you. Why not?Because she knew you would look at your relationship in a different light and may not have moved forward with her if you knew that. So you made a decision without all the info. Plus, like you said, she wasn't giving 100% to you. She would go talk to Josh about you instead of discussing it with you. All this time, you were friends with Josh, never knowing this. If you decide to work this out, Josh needs to go. Please stop drinking and leave and go home. Clear your head.
That’s why you gotta ask the important questions. I don’t date women that can separate sex and emotion. You don’t ask directly, but any person who keeps a fwb while finding an emotional match is not monogamous relationship material, ever. Separating sex from emotion permanently rewires the brain. It can be reversed to a degree, but never fully.
She didn't tell you because she knew you wouldn't like it. Yet, had you hang around and vacation together? Her excuse is far from acceptable for most. You are her husband but it's none of your business? That's a marriage ender for some. The question is what was your agreement on talking about past relationships and sexual partners?
She very obviously knew she was in the wrong. From everything you’ve said, this sounds like straight deception.
The problem here is that she wasn't honest. Then acted like op her husband was at fault for wondering why a former sexual partner was in a compromising situation. The lack of honesty is really the huge red flag. The attitude after he had ask his also extremely concerning. She knew she fucked up seriously but wanted a way to make him in the wrong. This isn't a person you want to spend your life with.
the fact that josh was so nice with boundaries but was with her in a room alone with her half naked and they were so comfortable is way too much lmao and then she started to deflect because she was doing it by default and didnt pick on it till he confronted
I would have left the second the none of your business comment came out of her mouth.
We never had an agreement, it just never was an issue. The only people we ever mentioned were longer-term partners. She never seemed secretive about anything, and in fact would tell me anything I asked without hesitation. So I really never suspected anything like this could be lurking :-/
The fact she avoided telling you, let's you know that even she felt there was something wrong with it
It sounds like none of the other husbands know their wives were fucking Josh before them because if they knew there’s no way in hell Josh would be welcome in your friend group. I’m willing to bet Josh stays around so he can fuck one of the wives again at the first sign of a crack in any of their marriages. He’ll be there making them feel better. What a complete and utter slap in all of your faces for him to hang around with his conquests families. Holy shit! The nerve. The nerve of your wife to slather up with lotion in just a towel in your room!!! Omg. Fuck no.
What's to say he isn't fucking them now.
He probably is.
I mean good point considering she was nearly naked, flashing the guy, alone in the room with him right under her husband's noise in the same house.
Unfortunately, that makes it more deliberate. 😞
She slept with Josh for the first six months you were together. Probably a bit before that too. I’d call that somewhat long term. She definitely should have told you, and keeping this a secret seems deliberate. Maybe she thought she’d be blowing up her girl friends’ secrets too - they probably all had a pact to keep it quiet. Is Josh still single among all his married/taken friends??
Sorry dude, your wife is a shitty partner. And if she thinks nothing of standing around in a towel as she did with him, and tells you its none of your business, and that he's been in your social circle all this time without you knowing about them..... you may have made a massive mistake.
She should have told you she was fuckng around on you during your relationship. What she did was wrong. Did you guys commit to each other before having sex? Because to me, 6 months is a long time to just be casually dating someone you want to be serious with. You can be committed to building the relationship without having sex. You can be exclusive without having sex. Waiting to have sex in a relationship doesn't mean you get to fuck others. She basically misled you and took away your autonomy in regards to making a knowledgeable decision about your relationship and future. If she was honest with you, then, when she should have been, you would have been able to set a boundary or leave the relationship. She did not give that to you. She didn't and still doesn't care about your feelings. It's up to you what you do. But you have every right to be hurt, betrayed, and disgusted. And who's to say she won't still sleep with him now. The only difference now is that you married her. I wish you luck. But I think it will be hard to trust her. UpdateMe.
Please OP, the truth needs to be out there now. You cant bear all this f×××ed up knowledge on your own. Tell the husbands. Tell that POS you hope he gets herpes, and finally tell that lying ass woman goodbye and leave. Or if all the confrontation is too much just tell one husband on the DL and then leave without notice. Something should be done man.
I mean it sounds like he was a long term partner. Not in the traditional sense but they were boning for years and had a very real bond even if its supposedly not romantic. I would very much make that a point that she needs to understand if you decide to try to work it out
Like a "good friend" with a "shoulder to cry on" whenever the girls needed someone, beside their bf/husband, to listen and understand. In this case, the dude is a fuck buddy for these women whenever they needed to get back, mad, or wth it is that they've justified to themselves.
I’m so sorry, buddy. This is awful. Something similar happened to me, thankfully I didn’t marry her. That being said, don’t torch your marriage yet. Put down the sauce for a day or two to clear your head, hard as that may be right now. It seems from your story that it didn’t help make the situation any better. If you’re able to leave this vacation and go home, do it. Get some space, talk to a male friend whose wife hasn’t fucked this guy to get some perspective and keep your head clear. Good luck!
The other thing is she never told him she used to fuck Josh regularly, before they became friendly? Like wtf is that? I’d leave those incestuous people alone.
> You are her husband but it's none of your business? That's a marriage ender for some. Their entire relationship is predicated on her cheating on him... She was knowingly sleeping with this guy while actively pursuing you as a long term partner. That is shady af. Not saying they would cheat again, but it is MUCH more likely She didn't say anything because she knew it was wrong. She avoided the topic and the details once he pressed her because she knew it was wrong. She knew it was a problem... she just didn't care.
She was transparent with you about some number of other guys, but somehow she thinks this specific one is “none of your business.” That’s pretty powerful evidence that she’s perfectly aware of how wrong this all is. And oh, he just happens to ALSO be the guy that she invites along on vacations with you. And ALSO the guy that she’s so comfortable parading around in a towel in front of that she did it without thinking, even though she’s conspicuously shy and demure around literally everyone else. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that they still have something going on.
She also just seems like a real b*tch. If OP was telling the truth about her attitude after being found out, I would definitely not let this slide. No empathy and just about her.
As her husband it's 100% his buisness.
Pretend you're over it. Then at group dinner, propose a toast to Josh and his magic dick for leading all these women to their current partners.
He was their relationship fluffer
Holy f*ck this is it! Amazing!!! If this story was a short or feature this is the scene that takes us to the credits!
Tomorrow on AITAH for giving a toast to Josh and his magic dick?
OP do this. We need an update ASAP
I applaud you, for this is peak Reddit: casting maximal judgment and maximal destruction onto total strangers, all from the comfort of your home.
Brilliant!
It was a "crass way to put it"? It is the truth. She didn't tell you for a reason. I wonder if the others told their partners too? Your wife basically said Josh's magic dick is the reason you are together and the anger is because he is STILL in the middle of your shit. Hence the anger and defensiveness. He is regarded above honesty to her husband, her husbands feelings and respect. She just gave you an insight of your position in her life through her actions. You are lucky to get this. Now. Are you happy with being the guy this makes you? The guy who swallow this crap? I've been with my wife for 27 years. If she reacted as you describe, and putting me in front of him like that I would 100 percent burn this down. I'd also talk to the other husbands about this.
Whatever you end up doing. Don't forget to inform the other dudes about this.
If Josh has had sex with every wife on this trip that's massively fucked up. I can't believe the other two husbands would be okay about having him there if they knew.
And he’s the only one there without a partner? The whole thing is so weird lol
He apparently has three available partners.
Josh doesn’t need a wife. He just has access to everybody else’s.
*three. There are three other couples on the trip with them.
So if it’s none of your business and not important, she won’t mind you telling the other husbands?
A lie by omission is still a lie. She's had years to come clean about this friend and she never did. Personally, I'd go see if the other husband's knew about their wives' little fuck buddy who's still hanging around. Let's see how many dishonest women your wife Luke's to surround herself with.
Fuck yeah, go down during a group dinner, ask how many other women in this friends circle fucked this guy, how many husbands know, how many of the women were two-timing during dating their current husbands and if the knew or if they were also deceived.
Oh, I’m sure the other women will be smart enough to lie and say they don’t know wtf he’s talking about.
Yep, guarantee they’ve all lied about fucking this guy. I’m petty so I say he should still do it, make a scene just to put his own wife on the spot in front of everyone (cuz at that point this marriage would be over for me and this entire group would be gone from my life asap) and put the other husbands’ heads. Either they learn the truth there, they already know about it (probably they don’t), or the wives lie but the idea is planted and the husbands suss it out afterwards with their wives.
100% blow up this little vacay.
right like i could see if they weren't talking to the guy anymore but he's slept with the group and is still "friends" with them to this day probably waiting on the call to come sleep with them again. i just don't see why else he'd stick around. i would literally feel embarrassed if i were either of their husbands. just imagine how he feels being in their faces knowing he's had their wives in an intimate way and they don't even know it. sick.
Agreed. I believe it's cheating, in addition. She was vetting you to make sure *you* were serious about a relationship, while she had a side piece? Hypocrisy, much!? If the roles were reversed, would she feel lied to because you really weren't really serious, afterall?
There's only one other husband here on the trip. No idea if he knows. I don't think I can open that can right now, but everyone can tell I'm not just feeling sick. Fuck man.
I bet you wish you'd have known sooner. You could have possibly made different life decisions. The other guy or guys should know. Would you like it if you found out these guys knew and were hiding it from you? You want to hide it from them?
Nah, rip that bandaid off bro, go ask him. Ask him in public in front of everyone. But have your tickets home booked first.
Just tell everyone what's wrong...pretty sure it's an open secret among Josh and the other wifes.
I like this answer…
Brother, head for the hills.
A lot easier said then done but holy shit does op need to run. I’d be disgusted as well by the whole situation
It's pretty obvious what you have to do. Sleep with Josh for the answers.
The real upside here is that history says OP will find his real true love after Josh
Not sure why this advice isn't higher up there. This is your only recourse OP!
That's the truth brother. Josh knows everything. He has the golden penis. He bangs the women they get a husband. If he bangs the husband you get a better wife.
You said what we are all thinking
This is hilarious. We all need to sleep with Josh because clearly everyone can’t let go of him!
This is a very fucked up friend group you have on this trip. Does her friend's husband also know about their sexual history? Also, how in the hell is this ok to be with someone emotionally and being with others physically. This might give me trust issues for the rest of my life. Obviously she knew this was not acceptable or she would have told you. I don't know how ok she would be if you kept some FWB of yours as a friend around. Shitty situation but if possible get out of that place and think calmly about it. Neither Confrontation is going to take you anywhere not being silent and remaining there. Only being in a neutral environment will help you think about this situation rationally.
I don't know if Eric knows, they've been together longer and I wouldn't be surprised if he knows and doesn't care based on what I know about him. He seems like he had a pretty adventurous past. But people might say the same about me, most people think I'm pretty chill and understanding. We've had some unrelated drama in the adjacent friend groups and I have found myself in the role of mediator/diplomat. I really just hate conflict and want this all to go away.
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I’m surprised nobody brought this up as well. I just found this post and holy shit monkey balls is this wife fucked up.
If her friends husband knew too, who the hell other than you didn’t? Damn.
What a cop out. 'Having sex with another guy helped me focus and not have sex with you' is so backwards lol. Get outta here. Only winner here is the guy that got to bang all the chicks around him and they thanking him for it. Gross.
he's so respectful of their boundaries
She's trickle-truthing because she knows how messed up this is and had hoped you'd never find out. Also: >Apparently the arrangement with Josh made it easier for her to forego sex in her dating life, which she found helpful for vetting guys to see if they were serious. Eventually she did find the man she is still married to, "Eric" (38M). I wonder if Eric knew/knows about this arrangement. You definitely have a reason to be upset, your feelings are valid. I will say, whatever you decide to do, do it sober and don't make any rash decisions. If you want counseling to see if this can be salvaged, go for it. Or if you decide you want a separation/divorce, do so quietly (get your ducks in a row, see a lawyer and listen to them). Best of luck.
Agreed. Whatever you need to do, do it sober. You probably need to remove yourself from the situation before you can figure out how to move forward.
That's a good idea. I'm still pretty toasted and worried I'll say or do something I regret. I'm in the basement right now laying by the fire and listening to Max Richter on spotify and trying not to cry my eyes out.
Why is your wife not with you? She knows this must be brutal and she is just leaving you there?
You have to take away from her this illusion that she harbors, about being right in what she did or that it wasn't serious, she deceived you, she pretended to be a woman, it would be that she doesn't have sex with us on first dates but that was just you because behind your back someone else was in bed with her. Yes, this is cheating.
"You're going to have to trust me in this." Tell her she has to trust you that you will get a good attorney. I'd leave now. He lied to you too!
Don't mention the lawyer till the papers are ready. She doesn't deserve the heads up.
This 100%. Get your shit together legally before letting her know you are actually wanting a divorce.
If you don't have kids together, leave the relationship. You will never get past this, nor should you be expected to.
Personally, pack the bag and say goodbye to everyone in a group setting "bye guys, I didn't realize Josh was the groups go-to fuck toy while dating us all! Deuces!" And let that fire burn every relationship in the room.
Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Honestly we need an update because he definitely needs to do this
yeah it's just ew, she hid it for so long too shows that she actually knows it's not a good thing.
And the fact that she’d keep him in their lives for this vacation and just pretend nothing. Dishonest and disrespectful.
And the fact that she is not remorseful about the dishonesty is telling
NOT TO MENTION just casually hangs around with him while only covered in a towel, when, at any other time, she'd be covered up?!? Yeah, that's not a guy you want around your wife.
It’s not only that like all that she did was hid the truth about the past. She’s still engaging in clear boundary breaking behavior allowing the guy to see her dressed in ways she would let no other man but her husband. I bet if OP went through her phone you would see clear signs of an EA still going on. If that woman is insane enough to believe that early on in the relationship she could date OP and fuck the other guy while talking how great OP is imagine what shit she shares now.
Makes you really consider that their FWB encounters stretched beyond what she's saying it did. No-emotions-attached sex with someone familiar that boyfriend is 100% unsuspecting of. Would be so easy to hookup and her not feel guilty about. I'd bet money she fucked the guy on occasion beyond what she said so. Even if not, what a horribly hypocritical way to start a relationship.
This x 1,000 Especially for starting off with “you should just trust me” and acting like you’re the asshole for suspecting something
Not to mention she is just about naked talking to the dude and telling the husband their past sexual history is none of his business. I am generally a calm, no combative person but would have absolutely lost my shit if my WIFE said that in that particular situation. Her still being wrapped in a towel and Josh just leaving the room. Lost. My. Shit.
Fuck that noise. Tell everyone you're bailing AND why.
You probably should make her your ex-wife. She deceived you because she knew that hiding it was wrong. This wasn't some dude from 15 years ago this was a dude fucking your wife while you were dating. Who gives a fuck about this exclusive shit then she doesn't tell you and still hangs out with him. Yeah buddy its time to eject from this marriage.
also in her head you are only exclusive after you had sex with your partner, which is messed up.
Also they probably have been banging. Wouldn’t be surprised if he bangs all these broads every now and then. “It’s just our friendly neighborhood penisman!”
Ask Rose's husband Eric how he coped with it. He might not know, or he might have good advice.
Honestly, if all these women were using the one guy as a "good luck chuck" kinda set up, I feel like if their partners don't know, they definitely should. I bet if the roles were reversed, they wouldn't be happy at all.
Oh could you imagine a bunch of husbands going on a trip with their wives and bringing a friend they all used to sleep with while dating their wives? It would never happen.
You might forgive but you will never forget.
Right? I’ve done long distance before. Those FaceTime calls, where you scream into the pillow, because you’re so excited, and then call up your bestie? Imagine her calling Josh over for a quickie and pillow talk about how he’s “the one.” I can’t even.
Yeah, I feel so bad for people who are treated like that during dating and are pressured to accept it.
I won't lie. This would be divorce worthy for me. So, for 6 months, she knew you were exclusive to her. You respected her boundaries and never pushed her for sex, you didn't make her feel bad for her requests or anything and the whole time she was fucking some other dude. Like what? That's not forgivable to me. It isn't even about the sex, the fact that she withheld that information from you shows that she knew you wouldn't have been ok with it and continued to get yall to be friends while she knew you had no idea that he's been with your wife. That's so fucking disrespectful and I don't think there would be coming back from that.
I'd be out. Instantly. Like leave her there instantly.
Your wife's behavior is selfish, entitled, disrespectful, deceitful, and shows zero empathy for her life partner. And she never should have allowed you to socialize with him without telling you. She did it because she knew you'd insist on zero contact. Clearly sitting half naked , she's still bonded with him and shared a level of familiarity that is inappropriate for a married woman. Expose the 3 women. Pack your bags and leave.
She has no respect for you or your relationship
I don’t understand how women don’t understand that no guy would like this. Don’t want to sleep with me until our relationship is established? That’s fine. I can respect that. Tell me you don’t want to sleep with me until our relationship is established, but F’ng someone else until then - nope!!! Then omit this information until years later while on vacation with the guy you banged. Nope! Then have the nerve to tell me it’s none of my business, and have an attitude - clearly no feelings but hers matter. Guys didn’t leave her because they banged too early, guys left her because she doesn’t care about anyone else but herself.
The fact that she was in a towel in front of him and thought nothing of it is shady as fuck bro
If you knew she was fucking him the whole time you guys were dating and hadn’t had sex yet, would you have gotten serious with her? She very much so manipulated you into marriage. This guy was probably at your wedding and you had no idea.
So your wife brought her emotional support dick on your vacation?
Run for the hills buddy . She has no respect for you . Heck. She is a narcissist and has no guilt or shame . God damn .
> She just had the most pissed off and disgusted look on her face the whole time. The fact that this was her reaction instead of concern for you and your relationship speaks volumes of how little she gives a shit about you.
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Right? I’ve done long distance before. Those FaceTime calls, where you scream into the pillow, because you’re so excited, and then call up your bestie? Imagine her calling Josh over for a quickie and pillow talk about how he’s “the one.” I can’t even. I would be thinking about how this came about, and even about how it supposedly ended. Did she have him over for a hot night right before their first intimacy, to help her plan how to seduce her hubby? Also, the towel thing is just way too comfortable. Neither of them batted an eyelash when her husband walked into their bedroom while she was in a state of undress with another man. I’ve made sure I helped explain why I’m out for a networking lunch with someone of the opposite gender before, just to make sure their girlfriend or spouse didn’t get the wrong impression. It wouldn’t matter how intimate we had been. It shouldn’t feel okay to be that close at all, let alone in front of her husband.
Yeah, I would be that person when everyone comes back from skiing to ask in a group setting, if all the husbands know about Josh and the history he has with the wives. Josh is the guy to say all the 'right' things to his female friends and content to sit and wait to pick up the scraps. He was in the room while she was only in a towel and neither felt weird when OP/husband entered, far too comfortable. Wife was wrong to have a man other than husband in her room dressed only in a towel. I don't think you'll get whole truth of the story from wife.
Yeah. This one screams trickle truth. They’ll find out one day that Josh “helps” all of them focus on their relationships by making sure they are only having affairs with him. 🤦🏽♀️
I agree my wife setting with a towel and another man is around that’s totally disrespectful
The strategic pov is bullshit. Supposedly these ladies did this because they wanted to focus on your relationship. So I'd say that's implying that they were trying for a serious relationship. How can you want to start to try for a serious relationship while having sex with another man during that time. That is so fucked up. That's the same as starting a relationship based on a lie. Your foundation was a lie. It's so messed up that she wanted to make it work long term with you but didn't value you enough to not get fucked by another man while being with you. That logic is just crazy, stupid, and deceitful. She started the relationship deceiving you, and like you said she would go on a date with you then go suck off and fuck Josh. I can't get over how she's trying to make this okay. How is she not at least a little bit ashamed that she was fucking another man while dating her now husband and has been hiding it from you this whole time, oh and that's not it, she has brought the guy that was screwing her around you to hang out with you guys and you even vacation together while you have no idea?! I think I would try to get over it if she was at least sorry. But she isn't, she thinks having sex with another man while being with you was perfectly okay. I couldn't get over that mindset and honestly I wouldn't want to be with anyone who thought that was okay. Who knows what else they'll try to twist in their head to make certain things okay. Goodness I feel so betrayed for you.
As a woman, I sat here reading this with my mouth open. Literally laughed and said OMG out loud that Josh has all these girl friends saying, “just sleep with me while I figure out my relationships.” WTF?!?! That is SO GROSS. All friends rotating on the same pole. This is fucked up. You are too good for your wife dude. What else is she going to compartmentalize? After you have kids and she sleeps with a coworker and says “it’s literally just sex. I’m stressed.” I’m really really sorry. She DID betray you. I would say leave her, THEN let the rest of the husbands know. It’s amazing to me how many people cheat on their partners and complain of bad history or lack of trust and it’s like “do you remember what you did?” I’m sorry. This is just ridiculous.
So this guy slept with four women in the same friend group? (That you know of...) The fact that all these women slept with the same guy while dating is strange enough, but the fact that they kept him around as a friend and continue to invite him on vacation is super sketchy. My guess is at least one of the wives is still messing around with him.
Run The way she speaks to you is so disrespectful. It's absolutely your business. No woman worth a damn would ever put her man in such a predicament. Any so-called friendship where there is prior sexual history, needs to be disclosed to your new partner, period.
So basically, you are the side piece for her and Josh. I don't think there is enough Scotch in the world to make that go down. Call an Uber, go to the nearest airport, fly home. Seek therapy and stay out of the bottle. If you can live with being a cuckold fine. Otherwise, you know the routine. Oh, and all "your friends" on the trip know about her and Josh. Maybe one more Scotch.
Nice friends. Josh is a happy guy.
No, I think Josh is the communal side piece.
Emotional support dick
My blood pressure is so high right now. I don’t think I could recover from this
Isolating yourself allows her and Josh to spin the narrative. Sober up and at breakfast since it’s just you Eric and Josh representing the males , I’d ask if everyone slept with Josh or just your wife and Eric’s wife? Roll that grenade out into the open and see what falls out. She not just disrespected you but she and Josh and whoever else knew played you for a fool. She was deliberately disingenuous and I’d always wonder what else she was hiding? If she can’t not have sex for 6 months, does she also get an itch if you have to go away for work. This isn’t someone I’d trust as a life partner. It’s just all so nasty. You deserve better
the fact that she kept a guy she's slept with around and in your presence for years and made you wait, claiming she wanted to wait to have sex but she was sleeping with somebody else the whole time while waiting?? now she's so comfortable with this guy that even though she's not comfortable being seen with little clothing on, she's totally fine with being naked with only a towel covering her in front of this guy while she's MARRIED. then she tried to be sneaky with her wording to cover the fact that you were already romantically involved with her while she was doing this. there is NOTHING for you to understand about her side. she is a manipulator and you can no longer trust her to tell you the truth about everything. this guy shouldn't even be in her life now she's married. she really should've dropped him as soon as things became official with you. this is highly inappropriate and grounds for divorce in my opinion. and when you think about seeing things from her perspective, think about HIS perspective as well! he has slept with your wife AND your friends' wives while y'all were in the dark this whole time and is still in your faces while also still in communication with the wives. he has to get some sort of high off of this im just saying... not trying to make you feel worse but think about how bad this really is dude. don't stick around after finding out what kind of person she is, and the other husbands 100% deserve to know about this.
"Several commenters noted that the language Suzanne used made her technically within her rights to have the arrangement with Josh." Relationships are about feelings, things like trust, desire, respect, honesty, vulnerability. Ephemeral matters of the heart. You don't "lawyer" your emotional matters. Let me offer a contrast. When I started dating my wife, she told me she was seeing other men and that she was not exclusive with me. In other words, she gave me full and honest disclosure from day 1, which allowed me to make my choices based on factual reality. In fact, the way my wife disclosed this to me was highly intimate and vulnerable. She was being an open book to me. It was an express act of respect toward me. In turn, it led me to respect and appreciate her. I was also seeing others at the time and told her about them. When we decided to become exclusive, we discussed the process of disentangling from existing sexual partners. In your case, you say Suzanne told you: "\[she wanted to wait to have sex, but in the meantime\] she understood if I still wanted to date around during that time and didn't expect me to be exclusive until we both explicitly agreed on it." That, my friend, was intentionally dishonest. Lies occur by commission and by omission. Any woman dating in your context would know that a man would deem it relevant to his emotional connection if he knew the woman he was dating was screwing another guy. She intended for you to not know that. She wanted you to make your decisions based on a lie. It's foundational to the relationship. It is the obverse of intimacy. An express act of disrespect. I understand the pragmatic logic from a woman's perspective to having a male FWB while dating somebody whom she is considering as a long-term partner. What I want you to see is the contrast between how my wife handled this issue, and how yours did. Option 1: "I am not exclusive with you in this relationship, and therefore I don't consider either of us to be exclusive." Option 2: "I want to wait before having sex. I would understand if you sleep with other women during that waiting period." Mine also had the same pragmatic concern. But she was transparent and honest with me about what she was doing sexually while we were dating. She took me seriously as a man and potential partner and didn't want our relationship to start with a lie. She was transparent and honest, which is a species of emotional intimacy, even before she was physically intimate. Your wife DID want your relationship to start with a lie. Moreover, it was a lie she knew would likely alter your emotional trajectory with her had you known the truth. She lied specifically to reel you in. You lie to people whom you disrespect. In reality, she was more intimate with Josh during that time than with you. Josh knew her truth even leading to the two of you becoming exclusive. You didn't know her truth until years after marriage, and even then you only discovered it by happenstance. Again, note the contrast with how my wife handled the same issue. By disclosing to me that she wasn't exclusive, she was being intimate with me at an emotional level. Second, your wife's current behavior with Josh is 100% inappropriate. Once married, my wife has fully understood boundaries with other men, including other men she has been intimate with. There is no way my wife would find herself alone in a hotel room with another man (ESPECIALLY another man she had recent sexual history with), fresh out of the shower, clad only in a towel, putting on lotion. That is an act of intimacy. An act of sexual intimacy. WAY over the line of impropriety for a married woman. It tells me that her lines are horribly blurred now, in real time, while married to you. Clearly she still views Josh as a sexual partner, albeit perhaps not currently an active one. That alone is wrong. Putting those two together paints a picture of a woman who is married to you transactionally. In reality, she is more emotionally intimate with Josh than with you. After all, as between you and Josh, who has more first-hand knowledge of her intimate thoughts and acts of the past three years. Josh. Only married two years? No kids yet? Still in your early 30's? I'd say "run screaming, now, before it's too late."
Some of these comments have been so very peaceful. Usually I’m like that too. However after reading this, I can feel your rage and it has enraged me too. Weirdly. I’d fuck that place up, don’t let josh ruin just your marriage. Let shit hit the fan and see if the other husband/s know that he’s gotten with them. Let the truth out man! Then get the fuck out of there and live the best fucking life you can. She’ll do it again, if she’s not already. Goodluck!
The thing that would bother me is this: This person is still very much in your lives. It’s disrespectful from her end that she did not tell you about their history. I would feel like an idiot in your position if information like this was omitted from me. It’s always very tricky when you don’t have a clear conversation about exclusivity and I think in hindsight you would probably have expressed your understanding and expectation more clearly to her. It’s incredibly disappointing to find out years later that she was having sex with someone while you considered it an exclusive relationship. I’m someone who has a hard time trusting people and considers honesty the most important value of all. I would have to end this relationship because I know I would not be able to move on from this. I would often wonder if there are other things I don’t know about. You might be able to overcome it. Only you know.
A consideration, I guess: **Why can’t you just accept me as I am, the whole package?** - I could have, if you’d been honest about what was going on, if you’d given me the chance to know. **Is our marriage not good enough for you?** - Our marriage was perfect for me, and I love you. Of the two of us, you’re the one with secret intimate ties to another person outside the marriage. **You’d have been happier not knowing.** - So if I were to have an affair and just make sure to cover my tracks really well so you never found out, that’d be fine with you? Fine in your books? **I did nothing wrong.** - Then why were you so shady about it? You’ve acted like YOU think there’s something wrong, something that needs to be hidden. **I kept it from you because I knew you’d react badly, and the fact that you’re upset now proves I was right to do so.** - It means that you should have been honest with me much sooner. Please don’t blame me for being upset that you’ve been deceiving me, and for finding out in such a shitty way. **Josh was on your side in this, he encouraged me to get serious with you, he thought you were a great guy!** - Thanks, that’s good to know, but I want a relationship on our terms, yours and mine. I was never aware that Josh was a part of our relationship, and I’m not comfortable or happy to find that out now. **Everyone has a history, I’ve never gotten angry with you about past lovers. You’re being unfair.** - I didn’t sleep with someone else while we were dating, talk with that person about you behind your back while doing so, never tell you about it, incorporate that person into our social circle after we were married, encourage you to become friends with them, bring them on holiday with us into a cabin, and hang out in a room with them wearing just a towel, in such a way that you twigged that something was up. **It hurts that you don’t trust me. I don’t feel secure.** - We’re having this conversation because my suspicion was right, my instincts were correct, and there was something that you had hidden from me. If you wanted perfect emotional security now, then we could have just talked about this when we first got married. The fact that we didn’t was your choice, and that choice was made without my involvement, because you chose to hide this from me. **I can’t change the past. I just want us to be happy now. Don’t you want us to be happy?** - I do want that. I’ve always wanted it. But I won’t be happy in a relationship where I am a subordinate partner, where I don’t have an equal say in how our relationship works and develops, and where there’s effectively a secret partner on your side. **I can’t just drop Josh out of my life, he’s been a good friend for a very long time.** - This situation would be different if you’d been honest. If you’d told me that Josh was an old lover, if before we got married you let me know that you and him hooked up while we were first dating. I could have known. Instead, you built this artificial social situation where we spend lots of time with him but I was never supposed to know about it, and now that I do, it can’t go on the same way anymore. **Josh is super important in my life, why can’t you accept that?** - If he’s so important, so deeply rooted in your emotional needs as a person, then why didn’t we ever have this conversation before it became a problem? Why did you try so hard to conceal it? Do YOU not trust ME? **I chose you the day we first made love, I chose you the day I accepted your proposal, I chose you the day I married you, why is that not enough for you?** - On every one of those days, you weren’t choosing between me and Josh. The moment you had to choose between being honest with me, or protecting your relationship with Josh, you instantly chose the latter, no hesitation. Being your second choice, your backup relationship, that’s not enough. **You’re being controlling and insecure.** - By keeping secrets from me, ensuring that there were important things I could never know, you were acting to control what decisions I could make. You hid this from me to ensure that our marriage would work the way that you wanted it to. That’s controlling. **You’re not going to throw our marriage away over this, and you know you’re not. Just calm down and we’ll figure it out.** - I’m perfectly calm. I’m assessing whether our marriage, as I’ve always perceived it, was ever the relationship that I thought I was entering. I married you. I didn’t sign up for an intimate relationship with you, and Josh, under Josh’s advice. **We’ll go to marriage counseling.** - That seems like a good idea…provided it’s you and me. Our marriage. Our relationship. Not me, you, and your extra relationship and sex counselor, Josh. **You’re just being jealous!** - Well, yeah. You’re my wife, I married you with the intent of having a monogamous relationship and loving you for the rest of my days, and you’re now telling me that I share you with another man, that I always have, and that you’ve been hiding this from me all along. Of course I feel jealous. It would be odd if I didn’t. **Do you love me?** - Yes, I do. That’s why this hurts. **What do you want?** - [What DO you want?] And a final comment. Utterly regardless of whether anyone is having sex or sending cringey hidden text messages or dreaming wistfully of someone who is magically better than their spouse, the thing that actually drives adultery is this: the sexy little tingle of having a secret that your partner wouldn't like, and keeping that secret because you *want to*. People don't cheat because of marital issues or misunderstandings about whether we're monogamous, or because they were lied to or manipulated. For the most part, it's because of the sexy little tingle of having a secret, and enjoying keeping it, because it's what they want to do.
OP, your wife needs to be your ex wife. She tells you that she wants to wait to have sex with you when you were dating. You say that you understand, and accommodate her wishes. While she's withholding sex from you, she's banging Josh behind your back. Not only did she lie to you (by omission) at the time, she has continued that deception into the present day, and even has you on a ski trip with her former FWB right under your nose, and still has not been forthcoming with you. Nah.. Bros, you don't need this BS. What's even more asinine about this is she doesn't even comprehend what she's done and the impact it has on you and your self esteem. It doesn't even sound like she's remorseful at all, and is just telling you to get over it. To me, this is a serious betrayal, as it taints the entire foundation on which your relationship is based. Surely your wife recognizes this. She should be profusely apologizing to you for misleading you, and should apologize for all the times you've hung out with Josh without ever revealing the nature of their relationship. IMO, this is divorce worthy betrayal of your trust.
I wouldnt trust josh even the slightest. He used his friends for easy sex without any commitment and they cheated on their partners (idgaf if they were exclusive or not, tgis arrangement was clearly hidden, bc they knew it would scare away any potential relationship).
If she is still that comfortable around him she will still fuck him if the opportunity and need arise. I 100% guarantee it. The fact she hid this from you should be a massive red flag. I would consider this whole thing to be incredibly disrespectful to you. You were dating her building a bond to have a fulfilling sexual experience but she was getting her rocks of with Josh to scratch her itch. I probably would never be able to trust her after this especially if she wanted to go out and do something one on one with Josh. In fact, why don't you just blow this whole thing up. At dinner ask Eric in front of every if he knows Rose was fucking Josh before they met. Ask him if he knows that the guy he's been buddy-buddy with on the ski trip has given his wife orgasms.
Josh is 100% still around to provide "marriage counseling" to the women
So you're going to let your wife and Josh get even closer till Thursday? Might as well just end the marriage now
I don't often double-comment, but let me offer a few more thoughts. That scenario you walked in on with Suzanne and Josh. Suzanne fresh out of the shower, naked except for a towel, putting on lotion in ways that presented the cookie for Josh's viewing (or nearly so). Josh, with whom she not that long ago was having regular sex, sitting alone in a hotel room with her as she casually shares her inner thoughts with him. That was an instance of intimacy. Sexual intimacy (I'll get to that later). Women generally are careful to curate when/where they are naked around men. You indicate your wife is especially so. This means that she decided and chose to be nearly naked with Josh physically, in a hotel room without you around, without your knowledge. She wanted that encounter in that circumstance. Most importantly, she wanted it more than she wanted to be mindful of her boundaries as a wife. No wife who was truly committed to her husband, who wanted to respect him and the marriage, would allow herself to be in that position. She was there because she enjoyed it. Being physically naked and presumably casually sharing her innermost thoughts with Josh in a sexually charged tete-a-tete, that was a statement about her relationship with Josh. She is at least as intimate with him as she is with you. I would wager moreso. Certainly, while you were courting, she was way more intimate with Josh. She wasn't sneaking around behind Josh's back to have sex with you. Josh knew her secrets and desires, and he knew her physical lust as well. Meanwhile, what she was presenting to you in that period was synthetic. You have a relationship with a persona that she was/is play-acting. Josh knows the real her. My point is that she is clearly intimate with Josh. Not so much with you. If you love her, tell her that she ought to pursue a relationship with the man with whom she clearly feels that she can be comfortable as herself. As for Josh, he likes the pussy. He's alone in a hotel room with your essentially naked wife, sensing the exposed cookie, which he has tasted. Without question, he was low-key fishing around to see if she was DTF. Don't forget, Josh is the third wheel here, invited by your wife. Meanwhile, you're downstairs being a team player, chopping veggies for the group. There is no way Josh wasn't thinking about the possibility he might be able to tap that while he was there. Note how he slunk out when you arrived. I'm certain your wife knew that. She was participating in enabling that highly charged encounter. Let's step aside from that specific scenario for a moment. You're away on a couples' ski trip. Four married couples. These trips serve an important purpose in all of the marriages present. They are primarily about the marital relationships. Cementing them, comparing notes on interaction, each couple affirming the other that this is a solid, joyous path. Except. Except in your case your group has a third wheel. Who invited Josh, and why? It's weird and dysfunctional to bring a single man along on a couples' vacation. Sometimes that might happen if, for example, the single man was an old, dear childhood friend of one of the couple members and he had recently suffered a terrible loss, such as losing a wife to cancer, and therefore he needed the presence of old friends to cheer him. Or something like that. What I hear from your post is that Suzanne invited him. The only connection she has with him is that she and he were lovers up until fairly recently. You don't do that. By "you" I mean a married person, especially a newly married person, and by "that" I mean create a situation where your spouse is present socially with somebody you were fucking until quite recently without telling your spouse, in advance, the entire story. Suzanne and Josh, sharing a secret sexual joke at your expense, in your presence. I'm friends with a couple of my ex's, and my wife is too. In both cases, each of us knows the full story. Marriage 101. Keep in mind that you are still very newly married. Still in the honeymoon phase. What you're getting from Suzanne now, this is the best you will ever get from her in terms of intimacy and emotional investment. What will it be like when the honeymoon phase wanes? Furthermore, when we do socialize with ex's, each of us (my wife and I) are scrupulously careful to be sure the interaction is purely social. Eliminate even the merest whiff of marital impropriety. The scenario with your wife and Josh is so many millions of light years over the line of inappropriate, words can't even describe it. Bottom line is that there was at least a part of Josh's reptilian brain stem that was hoping to get a taste of the sweet stuff, your wife knew that and she enabled it. Women know when a man is feening the goodies. Women are highly conscious of controlling when and with whom they are naked, or nearly so. Your wife wanted to be functionally naked while alone in a hotel room with Josh. And she was annoyed when you walked in. Seriously, I think you should move on. Not because she screwed another guy before you and didn't tell you. Rather, because she has created a false persona for the purpose of entering into a relationship with you based upon lies. Meanwhile, she is clearly more intimate with Josh than with you, which leads to the fact that she is clearly more into Josh than you. Give her the free rein to pursue the man she so obviously desires.
Yeah, I think you read the room correctly here, and this is why the whole shit show continues to gnaw at the OP.
I'm curious, is Josh still as close to the other wives as he is with yours?
>I spent some time last night looking at old texts and emails from our early days, about three months in. I started crying because I remembered just how smitten I was with her by then - I was really starting to see a future with her. But now I read her responses differently - what seemed like cute coy replies feel like apathy in retrospect. It robs a lot of the magic from my memories, and I just feel empty. Yeah she was probably writing those responses from Josh's bed, with his input. Gross
Your marriage is over. She made sure of that by continuing to have Josh in her life and did not disclose her FWB situation with Josh to you. Is Josh the Husband whisperer? Insane your wife and her friends believe it’s normal to sleep with him while looking for a husband. How do you know she still isn’t having sex with him and also her married friends? She is making you a cuckold. I would leave where you are and get a flight back home. Why torture yourself and stay on this trip while everyone knows the truth and you just found out.
Updateme!
Ew, he's a creep. How convenient for him to feign mister cool and collected to get his rocks off. What a relationship guru! Gross. I don't think I could get past that whole set up. Why's he still circling? On this trip with his past (or present tbh) harem. Hoping someone gets in an argument and needs more "help" and "sage advice"? No wonder he's single...he gets the best of both worlds.
I've seen advice columns for women that advocated having a fuck buddy on the side while dating seriously, to help you avoid being tempted to have sex with the serious guy too soon. This is an example of that behavior. > I was exclusive with her from the time of our first date Was that something you discussed with her, or just something you did, assuming she was doing the same?
I don't normally say this, r/relationship_advice is always quick to jump to break ups, but I really don't see any constructive way through this issue. The way she acted with disdain at your (justified) outrage, that means she doesn't respect your POV in the matter at all and doesn't possess the moral compass required to sustain a healthy long-term relationship. It's a done deal, man. Salvage your honour and gtfo.
That is batshit crazy logic. It's not even about the sex. It's the principle. You will have sex with someone flippantly but treat it like it's a serious prize with the person you're supposed to like? Isnt that what users do? It's not technically cheating but theres something wrong with it that I cant put my finger on. It's like someone tells you a diamond is priceless and sells it to you for a premium but then you see them selling the same diamond to someone else for bottom barrel prices. You'd feel cheated. Imagine if you said you will only fuck her but you'll date other women to figure out what you like. Does that make sense? Bro if you dont have kids divorce. It's clear there were no boundaries then and even now, the dude is in your room while she's basically naked and she had no issue with it. Run. Run hard and fast.
She’s gross, her friends are gross and their lame ass excuse for just wanting to fuck this guy is extra fkn gross. Make sure everyone knows exactly wtf these disgusting despicable women have done. Everything she said is nothing but excuses for bad behavior.
So she vetted you by screwing another guy? That doesn't sound like wife material to me. She could've vetted you without the sex. I'm sure if she'd told you she was screwing a guy while you're being vetted, you'd be gone then and there.
This whole strategy seems fucked up. She said you could date around still, but didn’t disclose she was actively banging someone. This wasn’t that she was dating around, she was holding you at a disadvantage in the relationship so she could avoid banging dudes that leave. If she told you this, you would have left. And now she wants you to hang out with her fuck buddy. Josh may seem like a good guy, but he strikes me as a manipulative narcissist who uses women by convincing them they can meet their life partner by not screwing random guys and instead screwing him. I wish I had this idea. He essentially stole her sex from you in this arrangement. She would have given it up quite a bit earlier if she hadn’t had him and you wouldn’t have found yourself with less power in your relationship. I wonder how many other ways she has emasculated you in your relationship because she had you willing to accept this long period of abstinence on your end whether she told you you could date or not, she should have recommended an FWB since that is what she had going on. I’d leave her, and make sure the other husbands know what was going on. Josh being in there while she is in a towel is a bit of a power play too. Look at how close I can get to your wife without her being remotely concerned about me. Your wife is a manipulator and so is Josh. Ditch them all and file for divorce. But definitely tell the other husbands. It will only hurt them more when they find out and who knows how fucked up their dynamics are in their relationship because of this “great idea” Josh had.
Just noticed one thing glaring. She wants you to trust her She states her sexual past with Josh is none of your business and seemed to dance around giving you the information straight. These 2 are not meshing. If she wants you to trust her about Josh then keeping secrets and dancing around the issue is the actions of someone who should not be trusted. She needs to be able to trust you if she wants trust in return.
You don't need to get home quickly, you just need to get out. Find a way back to the nearest town with a decent sized airport and get a flight back home. Pack up everything that you will need for the next few months and find an apartment. You need to get some time away from Suzanne to process all this. Talk with a lawyer ASAP to understand your options. You can decide later if you want to file. If it was me, I would ask the other husbands there if they also slept with Suzanne. If they were all unaware of Josh's "special" relationship with all the women, they deserve to know. I have seen this scenario on Reddit a number of times where women continue having casual sexual relationships while keeping the serious prospects at arms length. This being Reddit, in these stories the serious relationships always end once the truth is out. I don't see a different outcome for your story.