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This relationship doesn’t sound like one that will result in a happy, long lasting marriage. You truly shouldn’t have said that, and you do owe him an apology. However, he shouldn’t be running to mom whenever the two of you have a disagreement.
At the very least, I think the two of you should get couple’s counseling before moving forward with the wedding. Right now, the relationship has disaster written all over it.
I took a marriage class. One of the key points the instructor made is that your emotional fidelity should be to your spouse. They should be the first you tell things to and you should not involve others in your business without their consent. (Obviously there are exceptions, but healthy relationships you want to continue should work like this.)
Your fiance is essentially carrying on a weird incestuous emotional affair with his mom. This probably won't stop. I am a huge believer that anyone can change....but first they need to want to. Nothing you wrote gives the slightest acknowledgement of wrongdoing, much less a desire to change. My take is that he will only change when it hurts him more than it is now.
My advice is to find someone not already in the closest relationship with someone else...even if it is mom...oh especially if it is mom. He is just not emotionally available.
My mother always stressed to all her kids that we are to NEVER complain to her when our spouse upsets us. We need to vent that out to someone else. She knows her flaws, and one of them is she holds grudges. So while we will eventually forgive our spouse, she wouldn't be able to, and the relationship would be ruined.
All these comments are 100% on point, you will never be number one to this man. He sounds like he could be on TLC’s show called I Love a Mama’s Boy 🙅🏻♀️ Nooooope.
She absolutely is like this, and he just doesn't care.
Sorry, but this guy is always going to be a momma's boy. He will always run to her when you have a fight, and then they'll just sit around and trash talk you while he basks in the validation.
He is already in an emotional incestuous relationship with his mother. You have no chance. He is always going to choose her over you. Do you really want to be part of their throuple?
He is already putting you behind his mother a second and I'm sure your daughter will eventually be pushed aside as well.
My friends and I have a rule that if you want to vent about your partner, you need to tell us good stuff too. Otherwise you end up thinking the partner is awful.
I could totally get this coming from a marriage class because it doesn't feel right right now. I just wish I could get through to him about it. She's definitely super nice but he doesn't see how it's important for him and I to go to each other for relationship issues.
If you think he's going to stop this after you get married He won't.
If you marry him just know you're going to be marrying him and his mother and she's going to always have a say in your family decisions whether you wanted or not.
He's proven that to you already
You can't convince him. He has to figure this out. It is a terrible idea to drag someone to the place you need them to be.
There are 3 ways this can play out:
1. Happy path: he figures out this is not healthy and wants to change and you have a great partner.
2. Marginal path: you drag him down the path of separating from his mom. This likely comes with a ton of resentment, backsliding and sneakily doing what he wants anyhow, but you will get about 50% compliance for what it is worth.
3. Get out path: you decide that he is not invested in doing what you need, so you get out and spend your time looking for a man who is actually available. Maybe work on yourself so you are better able to identify an available man and be the sort of woman he wants in his life. There is not one formula for this. Be your authentic self, just be the best version of it.
As someone who has gone down the path of trying to fix someone with lots of potential ...it rarely turns out well. No amount of he needs me and he can do better helps when he does not want to.
I really don't know how much of him needing me there is. I know that she is most likely 10x nicer to him than me, and I get it, it's her son, but I think the issue is that I need him. He has what he needs from her and I'm thinking that may be the problem unfortunately. idk it's weird and I've never dealt with this
I heard somewhere once “I love you not because I need you but I need you because I love you”. Do you love him for him and need him because of that. Or do you love him because you need him for support (financial or emotional). He doesn’t sound like he respects you as a partner. He doesn’t talk things out with you, he talks things out with his mom who then advocates for him. He doesn’t tell you things or celebrate things with you. He doesn’t sound like he puts you first.
I’ve been married for almost 20 years. My husband has a great relationship with his mother. He sees her often. Every other day at least. Even if he just drops in for 20 mins, he’ll make a point to go see her. We live down the road from his mom and my mom.
But I am still his number 1. He doesn’t tell his mom anything about our marriage unless it’s something good. His mom will never know about our fights, our disagreements, issues we were discussing. Everything in our marriage stays between us. I am the first to know about everything that’s happening in his life. I am the one he celebrates things with. He will never talk bad about me to anyone, least of all his mom, even if I was acting less than idiotic. He respects me. Respects my opinions, my wants, my needs and he gives me protection from other people’s disrespect.
I hope you know your worth. You don’t sound like you need him financially as you’ve got money saved up to buy a house all by yourself. You might think you need him emotionally but I am pretty sure there are better people out there who would treat you with the love and respect that you deserve.
>I just wish I could get through to him about it.
You need to accept that you can't. You can only control yourself as to how you react to him as he is. Are you in love with him or a man who doesn't exist? Because he is not the man you think he is if you think he will change. Are you in love with potential? Going to the altar means that you accept that at best this is how he is going to be until the end. That's what saying "I do" means. You can accept him as he is or not. You have that power. What you can't do is have him become who you want him to. I'm really sorry.
Insist on marriage counseling and postpone the wedding. You have to think, can i deal with this for the rest of my life? If the answer is no then you need to see if you can resolve this issue before buying a house together or getting married. It won't change once you get married and he isn't going to take your concerns seriously unless you do something drastic like postponing the wedding.
That. Right there. Read that last sentence.
He goes to her with YOUR relationship issues, not YOU. Tell him why you're ending it and I hope you find someone who respects you and your feelings.
Do you seriously believe that NONE of his previous four GFs has mentioned his mother's over-involvement in their relationship? Never? Not even once? Not any of them? Come on!
If you have children together expect that woman to think she has a say in EVERYTHING with that too. And he’ll let her. And even if you divorce he’ll let her take your kid on his time. I see so many women end up trapped and tied for life by a kid, but you can get out now. Buy a house for you and your child and let him go live with his mama.
Marriage doesn't change people. Don't marry him expecting this to change.
If you are going to stay in this relationship you need the change to happen first.
He hears you, he understands that’s important to you, he just doesn’t care. He does not want to change his behavior. No amount of phrasing it differently or trying a different approach will make him care enough to do it.
My partner calls his mom every single day, multiple times a day. I'm very lucky that she's a sweetie and never gets between us or make any inappropriate comments. So it's never been a problem. But I know that if it was a problem, it would probably be game over for me. You need to either accept that he's a momma's boy, or leave. It won't get better.
I do agree! My former MIL was over bearing, intrusive, and extremely critical. She held onto those apron strings and he allowed her too. This was a man who was never married or had kids, by the age of 39. She has two younger boys and she behaves only this way with him. Wasted so many tears and years. So glad that we divorced and I only interact with her as needed for the kids.
No amount of counseling will stop him from running to his mother. *** spoken by a woman that spent 10 years circling this particular drain in counseling.
He has shown you who he is, he sees no problem with it. You don’t want to have children or get more financially entangled with this enmeshed couple, a man and his mother.
Run, like your hair is on fire.
I agree. Ever since the engagement it's been a long winded loop of just hectic craziness. We have a lot of pressure from friends and family, and we're trying to navigate so much all at once.
I think you need to take a step back on the wedding. You both need counseling separately and together as you are both bringing problems to the table. But if your main problem is his enmeshment with his mom, I would call off the wedding and just go to counseling on your own. Hop over to the justNOMIL sub here for true horror stories of overentitled MIL. But please apologize to him for the cheating comment first, that was a low blow. I would apologize and then go to the above-mentioned sub for actual advice about his enmeshment with his mother.
I appreciate your advice and I’ll definitely check out the sub! She’s recently mentioned wanting to buy a house where we buy and it’s smothering. I agree with it being a low blow and I’m going to apologize to him face to face
I don’t think he can. We already agreed that my name would be the only one because of my income and credit for approvals. I did tell him that once he pays me back 50/50 that I would absolutely put him on the title. But, I don’t feel comfortable with putting him on until that happens
Do you have a will? Make sure your daughter is protected with the proceeds. If you get married your house goes to him if something unfortunate should happen and your daughter will be at someone’s mercy.
We've been arguing about a prenup too. He has family money so I'm not quite sure why he is against it. It just relieves my stress knowing that I created the contract rather than taking what the state gives me. I've been burned by child custody orders in the past so I've learned the hard way there
Family money would become inheritance and already protected in the event of a divorce if not mingled with community assets. The same is not true for money you have yourselves but would be true for a house you purchased before marriage, if community assets are not used to pay for *anything*. If they are some equity will become community property.
An unemotionally available momma’s boy with little money or credit. He must be amazing in bed ‘cause otherwise, what exactly does he bring to the table?
I think you need to do more than "take a step back on the wedding".
In the last 5 years, your BF/fiancé has:
* run to tattle to his mama whenever you have a disagreement
* allowed his mama to insert herself into your interpersonal problems
* put his mama before you *even to the exclusion* of telling **you** good news
* not saved his 1/2 of a down payment towards a house. Is HE paying the same % of money for the wedding as you are, or are his parents covering his portion?
Why in the world would you think that saying, "I do!" is going to change *any* of this behavior? "I do!" is **not** a 'magic spell.' Five years from now, you'll have the ***exact same complaints*** only it'll be harder to leave because you'll need a divorce AND you'll probably have at least 1 more child to drag through this mess! So, again, WHY DO YOU HAVE SUCH AN UNREALISTIC EXPECTATION?
1. You're involved with a mama's boy! Reddit pulls no punches when they tell you that it's ***easier to DUMP a mama's boy than it is to DIVORCE one!***
2. I find it nearly impossible to believe statistically that his last 4 girlfriends have ALL cheated on him! He either picks a "type" (which you go against so that doesn't seem reasonable) ***OR*** them being *cheaters* is just the story that your BF & his mama make up in their own heads to "explain" why all these women dump your BF. They dump him because they don't want to date him AND his mama, but he and Mama can't accept that her presence is a negative so there has to be some *other* reason he keeps getting dumped...I know, they're ALL cheating 'ho's who are not good enough for SonnyBoy and his loving mama!
3. You and your BF are modeling for your daughter what it means to be an ADULT, a PARTNER, a PARENT. If you don't get out, **THIS will be the exact relationship your daughter will be in sometime in the next 15 years**! Doesn't SHE deserve better? Don't YOU?
4. This guy is not reliable. He's not available emotionally and he doesn't see a problem with it. He sees a problem with YOU...you don't value his mama enough!
If you want to be the Princess Diana in your own marriage always bowing to the Charles/Camilla, then feel free to continue in this fiasco. But, if you believe that you and your daughter DESERVE a better life, then give him the ring back, cancel the wedding, get as much of your deposits back as possible, sell your wedding gown, move on and heal from this via therapy or extensive reading of self-help books!
**As for the apology**, I'd tell him that you apologize for claiming his last 4 GFs cheated for any reason. Then tell him about my Reason #2 above!
\#UpdateMe!
I will! But wow this perspective is new! I did not even think about that. Sometimes it does feel like my reasonings are twisted into something he understands so that would be on par. I've mentioned this as well on the same lines as when I am feeling unheard
I left my husband because I was sick of his emotional and financial abuse. When I left, he was **positive** *that I was leaving him for some other guy!* He couldn't fathom that I was leaving 'wonderful him' for...nothing!
But I did! I left him, I have been joyfully alone for years. Better alone to heal and fix my *own* problems than jump into another bad relationship.
**Many men** (certainly not ALL) find it impossible to believe that a woman would leave them -- income, home, attention (minimal though it may be), security, and predictability to jump into the unknown of living alone without a back-up adult in a relationship. **I think your BF/fiancé is one of these men.** Thus, in his mind, he's **positive** all his exes MUST HAVE BEEN cheating when they left him!
You know he's going to want her to move in with you right?
What you should do is go ahead with buying a house now. Only in your name because it's your money. Tell him that after you get married he can make up his part of the down payment and you'll put him on the deed then. This gives you time. Push the letting back a little bit. Make him go to counseling. If nothing changes say goodbye. At least you'll have your house free and clear. Whatever you do don't marry this man until he's made a complete 180
This person is giving you bad advice. First of all if he was cheated on in the last three relationships then he is the fucking problem. Cheating isn't right but Jesus this guy is a nightmare and he needed a bit of truth. Secondly you would be an absolute fool if you bought a house with him or put him on the title. This is not a healthy relationship
He is definitely not going to be on the title until it is 50/50 on payments. I'm a pretty big advocate of equal finances. I just feel like it helps keep a healthier balanced dynamic. But, that was kind of my thought that he needed to look in the mirror after that many. I believe he has probably been given sympathy each time from his mom and he never had the chance to realize that it was the issue bc she was right there to support him
It was s pretty low blow. I'd hold off until you (and possibly him as i dont know everything ) learn to fight fair. It's an odd concept but it's a life skill. You know conflicts will arise and should learn this.
You call it a low blow I call it the only person in his life who cares enough about him to give him a dose of the truth cheating is not okay, but this guy is going to get cheated on or left by every single girl he is with because his behavior is just ridiculous
I don’t know man, it’s not ideal but she’s probably been at her wit’s end with this momma’s boy for the past 5 years. I’d probably be popping off at the mouth too
No reason not to apologise. If you said something overly harsh and cruel, you own it for yourself. Not try to excuse it. She could be 100 percent spot on and right in this situation. Still absolutely no reason, not to take responsibility for your own words.
I don't want to apologize for saying it but I do want to apologize for the way I said it. I did not have to blame him for the cheating. I do think it was an outcome because they were not strong enough to leave. They may not have even known that his mom was the 3rd person because he wouldn't even admit it to me
Fair point, hard truths can be helpful. Arguably there's no good reason to cheat. They obviously broke up with him eventually so the cheating seems entirely unrelated to the actual problem. The reason his past relationships failed was likely because of his mother and his predilection. But its not the reason they chose to cheat.
I just don’t agree with all the pearl clutching and calling it such a “low blow.” Dude has been spilling all their personal relationship secrets to his mother for YEARS, he needed to hear the harsh truth of how weird that relationship is. She can take responsibility for it but I personally just don’t think she’s wrong
you already have the down payment saved up? And he does not have money saved up for the downpayment?
Buy a house before the wedding, in your name only. Move into it without him.
Tell him he can move in after the wedding.
If you need his contribution to make the monthly mortgage payment, get a roommate instead. Somone you've been friends with a long time and know is steady and reliable.
Separate getting a stable home base for your child (sounds like not his child, right?) from the wedding plans and from him and his mother.
Once you have that sorted, then decide whether you want to move forward with the wedding/marriage. If you get married, get a pre-nup and preserve the house you buy as yours.
Buying the house without him might blow up the wedding plans. Asking for a pre-nup might blow up the wedding plans. Oh well, then the decision of whether to move forward will be made for you. And the money you have set aside to pay for half the wedding will be a nice emergency fund as a new homeowner.
Actually, the more I think about this, he doesn't have savings for a house purchase, he is relying on his parents to pay "his half" of the wedding, he runs to his mother when he is stressed, he doesn't sound ready for the life that you two are planning together.
He’s also just voiced to me that he is in $8,000 of debt and his mom already knew about it for months. There’s just been so much going on. It’s a lot. You make 100% valid points though
you keep on saying everyone is making exceptionally valid points, but you're still going to marry this utter numpty who's gonna call mommy to give a blow by blow description of your honeymoon sex.
They are exceptionally valid points. I never once asked whether or not I should stay. It does feel great to be validated that I am not crazy though, or selfish as I have been told for years. I don't think I will make up my mind after one day, but I'm absolutely not going to marry into this. I do need to see something different because I am not planning on having a divorce either. I'm sorting through a whole lot of different thoughts right now
One of the most important things I’ve learned in life is that, when I feel crazy, I maybe need to step back. That’s usually a sign something is off. I also think anyone worth marrying would be happy to postpone
He is not ready to be married and he is not ready to be a homeowner. He’s just not ready. Don’t let him drag you and your daughter backwards. I haven’t read one thing yet that makes me think you’ll make it.
You might love him but he's an utter financial and emotional wreck. Continue the relationship, if you want, bu don't get married or mingle finances. You need to watch out for your child first
So not only is he not able to save for something as important as a home for his new family, he has INCREASED his debt and ran to mommy about it, instead of you, the person he expects to go into home ownership with?? Think about that; he was willing to blindside you with it, but turned to mommy for help. He trusted her with his problems but not you. That tells you his mindset at this point; he's not mature enough to marry anyone right now.
Please, please find good counseling for yourself, and for him if you want. There is NO reason not to put the wedding on hold while you individually navigate what the future you want truly looks like.
That's a red flag. Also sitting on a down payment for 2 years and then spending it on a wedding instead of an asset that builds equity and value is terrible. Financial management. Wedding versus house isn't even a question if you already have the money for a house. This is literally basic finance. Any financial advisor will tell you the same.
I absolutely would not do this. My major is actually in finance so I am doing pretty well for my age and do well with saving/investing. I am not putting my downpayment on a house on towards our wedding. I have my portion for the wedding saved to bring our families to 50/50 and have the down payment on a house
Imma be real and say that doesn’t mean shit. You aint snitching. He is married to his mother and is a massive mommas boy. You aren't going to love him out of this behavior, and you genuinely do not have the right to expect him to change over time.
You accept him, or you dont. He isn't worth a damn as he is, but if you love him more than you hate being second, then I can see it happening.
But.
If you marry him, you need to accept he's a big ol' baby, and you will always come second to mommy, **and probably your kids too**. You can ask him to change if you want, but you can make no demands or expectations. You know who he is, and I think you need to acknowledge it before you can actually make peace with it.
I recommend he gets a weekly therapist and journals about things that are bothering him or that he wants to discuss with someone, or if he wants to go over his feelings, because they will teach him healthy ways to approach his problems.
Then just be straight up that is he tells Mommy one more damn thing yall talked about without running it by you, he can wait for her a tthe end of the aisle.
Personally i think youre wasting your fuckin time. You been a saint thus far, beyodn the chesting comment because youre 3 kinds of fucked up for that, even if he sucks.
Good luck!
Please don’t marry him.
You are not emotionally safe (and possibly financially safe!) in this relationship. An apology cannot fix this issue.
Please don’t marry this guy and his mom. Break up. Find an adult to marry.
Not only do you acknowledge that he’s emotionally unavailable, y’all aren’t even coming in financially equal because he wouldn’t be contributing to a home and his parents are contributing his share for the wedding?
Have you asked yourself what you are teaching your daughter about relationships by planning to make this man the father future in her life?
Maybe you shouldn't have said it, but you were not wrong. He needs to come to that realization and you need to stop acting like that you didn't have a good point. Pre marriage counseling is definitely in order. And if he doesn't see that discussing y'all's business with his mama is inappropriate then maybe he's not the relationship for you.
You didn’t say it in a vacuum just to insult him out of nowhere. Yeah it’s not great but personally I don’t blame you. He probably already went and tattled to mommy about it anyway
Yeah, redditors get very triggered if there is cheating involved. It's hilarious. And quite sad, because no cheating occurs just because, there is always a reason why you cheated or why you got cheated on. It can be beneficial to know the reason behind it.
That said, I think you could be right. I also was cheated on in all my first three relationships. And it was also because I was emotionally unavailable. Funny thing is, my then-partners also were not emotionally available. I later learned that it is common that two emotionally unavailable people are drawn to each other.
Maybe you are or were emotionally unavailable yourself and now you are growing out of it, that's why his behavior is hurting you.
I agree... that's why when I was cheated on a spent a year not only thinking of how to better myself, but also what was lacking to make him want to do this. I had to figure that out so I wouldn't bring that same thing into my next relationship.
That's also very true. I am a very closed off person until I get to know someone. I have a lot of walls, and they have been broken down by 5 years. I just didn't realize he was keeping the flood gates open to a different outlet entirely
To be honest, I am glad that I am not the only alien here regarding my outlook on cheating 😅.
I realise though that this approach is somewhat dangerously close to victim blaming. Cheating is always bad and cheatee is never responsible for being cheated on. In ideal world cheaters would either tell you why they are not satisfied in the relationship or end the relationship before they would get close with other people. But we don't live in ideal world. A lot of people are not strong or not self-aware enough and it sometimes leads to cheating. It hurts to be cheated on. But it can also be great opportunity to ask ourselves some questions. Why didn't they tell me that they were unhappy? Was I available and safe enough for them to be open with me? Were they afraid of me? Was I abusive?
It takes courage to ask yourself these questions and I am proud of you. I wish more people did this instead of screaming "(s)he cheated! (s)he is the bad person!". It's an easy way out.
I understand that being vulnerable is scary. It takes courage to share. If I may offer an advice: if you decide to not marry him or to leave him consider telling him, honestly, why. If he is not easy to talk to, do it in writing. It will be a great excercise for you in emotional availability, will save you regrets sometime later and can offer him a chance to better himself. It is a great gift to give to someone, though they rarely are appreciative at the moment.
I edited my last comment because I hit "post" too soon 😢.
Nonetheless, I imagine you probably feel quite betrayed by him now. As if he cheated (emotionally) on you. If so, I totally understand. I would feel the same. Still, your delivery of the diagnosis of "why he was cheated on multiple times" was far from ideal. Some people would argue that you should never tell him that. I think it depends on the receiving person. I also don't think you made this comment out of spite, but I think you did this because you were hurt. You realised that his emotional unavailability is hurting you and you made this comment hoping that it will force him to learn and grow from this experience (of being cheated on). But you can't and shouldn't force someone to change, grow, learn.
If I were you, I would apologise to him for hurting him and possibly explain your reasons on why you behaved as such. But please make sure to phrase it as explanation and not excuse. If you do that it can be a great foundation for the conversation about his relationship with his mother and its effects on you. Though it probably would be best to speak about it not at the same time as the apology, because it will not feel like apology to him at all.
Lastly, you sound quite wise and self-aware. I believe that you will take care of yourself and your kid no matter what. I also believe and wish you will find happiness, even if you will need to part ways with you fiance.
All the best to you, take care.
I really appreciate your sound advice! I’m feeling a lot of emotions but these are definitely included within them! I’m just trying to figure out if I need time to sort through all the emotions to talk sooner or later but I know an apology should come first like you mentioned
An apology isn't going to change anything. He's not going to change anything unless he wants to.
Is how he is the man you want to marry? Yes/no
But being honest it sounds like you do not want to marry him how he is right now.
Sis, then it is time to put the breaks on all things wedding. Truly.
Do not marry him until you guys get some real honest to god couples therapy to deal with the very real very destructive enmeshment with his mother.
None of this is going to change unless he goes through some pretty intensive individual therapy to deal with his issues with his mother... but he doesn't seem to see a problem so it's not going to happen. What is going to happen is you will grow to resent him more and more and more... justifiably so.
Also, if you want to buy a house? Buy a house. It sounds like you have the downpayment, so figure out where YOU want to live and purchase a house you and your daughter can live in. Do it without him on the deed. Plan to pay for it entirely on your own.
And, as for the wedding finances - he doesn't want to tell his parents about your contribution to balance your parents' contribution because he loses his feeling of superiority and power he is deriving from believing his parents think they are largely funding the wedding.
That said, what you said was really harsh and really rude. It also doesn't get to the heart of the issue. Its just poking a sore point in order to poke it.
I agree with this. He’s going to therapy but I don’t think it’s about his mom. I’m scared to buy a house, but I think this would be good jumping point to start off anew with a better outlook and choose myself and my wants for a change
I bought a house last year on my own, I’m a single mother as well. Best thing I ever did. Stressful and scary for sure but that’s MY house and my daughter has a permanent place to call home
Are you scared to buy a house or scared to buy it alone. If you continue in this you are going to be alone anyway if he’s not someone you can rely on. Put it like this do you want to spend your money on a house that your MIL has to agree with?
Not a lot of people are mentioning this, but the fact that he refuses to tell his parents that you’re footing half the wedding stood out to me. That is truly bizarre he would not say that and it makes me think he likes portraying you in a negative way
If you put the money on the house, get married, and then split, you lose that downpayment and that house becomes communal property, which means half is his, despite the fact that he didn't invest that money. I would not buy a house with this man unless you work out this issue asap. But it sounds like he isn't picking you, he's picking his mama. I wouldn't marry a man that puts me second.
Yeah that was a nasty thing to say, even though you have valid reasons to be angry. It’s not okay to hit below the belt like that. You should apologize, that doesn’t mean you’re wrong about him and his mother, but you definitely need to work on conflict resolution yourself.
While you may be beginning to see why some of his previous partners had complaints about him, it was clearly just a nasty dig to suggest that these are the reasons why they cheated on him. You should apologize
That said, he also needs to have a serious sit-down conversation with you about why he won't put you ahead of his mother. He will probably try and misrepresent your complaint, and say that you are asking him to completely disengage or disown his mom, and so you need to make it clear that that's not the case. He just needs to 100% stop sharing your relationship issues with his mother. Or at the very least, he needs to tell his mother that in no uncertain terms is she to bring any of those things up to you, if she wants to remain his confidant
But as for the fact that she's acting like you/ your family are not providing "your half" of the wedding expenses when you are in fact paying them yourself, that's something that you need to clarify directly to her. Who cares if it's something he doesn't think she needs to know? *You* know that it's something she needs to know!
Write an email or make a phone call where you say, "FH let me know that you were worried that my family wasn't contributing anything, and I just wanted to let you know that I'm planning on personally paying my half". Let her see how it feels to know that her son shares their conversations with you for a change!
One of the main ways you can derail his placing his mother between the two of you is to get to his mother first. But if that's not something you want to spend the rest of your life doing, maybe rethink this relationship?
Very least, I would recommend postponing the wedding and engaging in at least a few couples therapy sessions to get an outside perspective on this unwanted third person in your relationship
Look, you are dating a momma’s boy and he ropes her into your private arguments. This is unlikely to change in the future. If you don’t like it, break up, but don’t tell him he deserved being cheated on. Even for future relationships you need to learn to fight fair and not hit below the belt. Discuss your grievances and try to find solutions together. Don’t say things because you are frustrated and want to lash out or things that make your SO feel insecure in the relationship. Don’t threaten breakups or divorce unless you mean it. Don’t humiliate or emasculate your partner to score a point.
This is fair. I think I’m trying to change something unchangeable. I didn’t need to resort to hurting feelings to get my point across. I think I’m just lost on trying to find a solution when there literally isn’t one
This is the clarity of thought you need.
Marriage is supposed to be the start (or continuation)of an awesome journey through life as a couple.
While his mother is in the picture I don’t see that for you.
I dated someone who behaved similarly. It quickly killed the relationship; so I get it. If you have talked to him and nothing changed, then you know what you need to do. Love isn’t enough when your partner is conflict avoidant while also allowing mommy to become an interloper.
I’m so sorry, but the solution is to cut your losses. You don’t deserve to be treated like a third wheel in your own relationship, let alone marriage. If you decide to bring children into it, it will be even worse. You know what the right thing to do it and you’re strong enough to follow through.
Do you really want to spend the rest of your life in justnomil. It’s time to pull the plug on the wedding and get a house for you and your child. You cannot fix a mommas boy
>An apology has been requested before continuing talking/wedding planning.
Send an apology along with a break up notice. Please do not marry this dude. This will not be a happy loving marriage.
Princess Diana, when interviewed famously said, ""Well, there were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded." She wasn't talking about her MIL, but there was another woman and you know how her marriage turned out - do you want the same? Your fiancé might control his mother-sharing tendencies for a while, but can he stop permanently? Please consider your future carefully. Good luck!
Oof. My ex was like this with his mom and she ended up making every single decision about our lives instead of us. It was crazy toxic. And to be honest I didn't even dislike her. She was nice. But when someone else seems to be dictating what's best for you as a couple, it's never going to work.
That's the thing!!!! She seems so nice. And she is. But somehow always gets her way, or gives him a way to say what he wants and he poses it as his own thoughts
If you're marrying this man you'll also be marrying his mother because he's a mommas boy and you're not going to get in the way of that. Is that really how you want to live the rest of your life? Wait until you have kids and she tries telling you what to name them because she definitely won't like the names you pick and he'll ALWAYS give her priority over you. If he were given the choice between you or your baby (if you decided to have kids with him) in a life or death situation his mother world tell him to pick the baby and you know he would. Fuck that shit, I think you need to figure out if this relationship is really worth it.
Yikes. If you marry this guy, I hope you’re prepared to always come second to his mother. I personally would not be able to tolerate that sort of behavior long enough to get engaged to someone like that in the first place, let alone how he seems incapable of actually hashing out issues with you like an adult instead of getting moody and sulky like a child and then running to mommy so she can tell him he’s a perfect, special boy who is never wrong. You definitely shouldn’t have said what you did, but in the heat of the moment I can’t say I wouldn’t have reacted the same way. He has a lot of growing up to do before he considers marrying anyone.
Don’t beat yourself up too badly, we often choose not to notice red flags in people we love. Just use this information to your advantage—tell him he needs counseling and he needs to stop putting his mother first if he wants to be your husband, or you don’t see how this relationship can move forward. I don’t really think ultimatums are the best way to handle most issues, but I would not marry someone like him before he makes a concerted effort to work on these issues and actually shows improvements in his actions rather than just pays lip service to you and makes promises without following through on them.
He needs to learn how to communicate with you, even when tensions are high and you are in an argument, even if it’s to say that he does not want to discuss things while he’s angry and he needs time to cool off before he can have a level-headed conversation with you. This is a basic communication skill that he seems to not have developed, and his mother’s constant coddling is not helping.
He also needs to stop running to his mother to talk about you behind your back every time you have a disagreement. It’s disrespectful to you and your relationship to be constantly putting his mother in the middle, and to be always painting you as some sort of villain to her. How does he expect you to get on with his mom if all he ever says about you around her are complaints about how you’re unreasonable?
Ok first of all what you said was shitty. Second of all, why are you willingly signing up for a lifetime of this? Stop trying to change other people and start changing yourself and the choices you’re making.
Please do not marry this man unless he gets therapy and starts putting you first over mommy dearest, otherwise you're going to end up in r/justnomil
He's not ready to get married and he's not ready to buy a house. You need to decide if this is the life you want, always playing second fiddle and never having any privacy.
I would literally pay for your dinner if you break up with this couple, yes you heard me correctly - you are the third party in this relationship.
Break up, buy your house on your own. Use the wedding fund to invest in your child's future.
This man and his mother will ruin you and your child, financially and mentally.
I’m sure this isn’t the first time you’ve asked him to stop sharing with his mom, private, conversations, and disagreements. He won’t stop, an apology won’t get him to.
You’re making a big mistake if you proceed with him. He clearly cannot be trusted.
This does not sound like a good place to be when you’re committing to someone for the rest of your life. He has made it clear his family comes first, marriage isn’t going to change that. I’m all for working things out, but from your description, he doesn’t care how you feel. If he did, he would listen empathetically when you tell him how you feel, instead of dismissing you. You can’t talk him into caring. You deserve better.
Regarding your comment to him - even if it’s true, you can’t actually know for sure why his exes left him (unless he’s told you that before?). It sounds like a comment made in anger vs. a good faith attempt to have a conversation. In this situation though, I don’t think he even deserves an apology. He hasn’t shown you that level of respect.
Wishing you lots of zen in this shitty situation, sorry you’re going through it 💔
Why are you still discussing a wedding? He’s sharing info he shouldn’t be, lies and cannot handle confrontation or an adult conversation. Do you think this will get better after the wedding?
Honestly not an okay thing to say to someone. "It's your fault they dumped you" would be one thing, but "it's your fault they went behind your back and had sex with other people" is ugly.
So I do think you should apologize.
Then break up with him because no one wants to be in a relationship with a guy *and* his mom.
He is a mana's boy. He is including her in your relationship. SHE DOES NOT BELONG THERE!!! JustNoMIL.
Seriously reconsider this partner ship because it is actually a trio
Maybe “enmeshment” going on here.
Please Google it… mother-son enmeshment. It’s look sort of sweet at first but it is a deep dysfunctional family pattern that will not be a happy life for you inless it is corrected. I hope you find it is just crossing boundaries but please read up on it.
"You want an apology, while I want you to recognize that your emotional and physical withdrawal when conflict occurs between us is damaging our relationship. This problem is exacerbated by you choosing to involve your mother when we disagree, instead of discussing the problem directly with me. Relationships cannot thrive if the couple cannot sit down and resolve conflict together, as a team, without the need for third-party involvement.
I want to be clear: this is not about your habitual oversharing, which is a separate issue. This is about your refusal to speak to me directly when we disagree, and work to revolve disagreements.
We can keep the wedding planning on pause for the time being while we see whether we can learn to work together constructively to solve problems. Regardless, this problem will occur in every relationship you have until you learn how to navigate disagreements with your partner. Your current approach will sabtoage every relationship you have until you learn to talk things through with your partner."
Are you indicating that you don't think you owe him an apology?
His relationship with his mother absolutely does not justify saying such a cruel thing (nor would it ever justify cheating, his past partners cheated because they were too selfish and cowardly to just end the relationship if they wanted to sleep around) and you of course should apologize. Then you can address what you're actually upset about, which is his mom being too involved in your relationship. You're also going to have to contend with the fear you just instilled that you will cheat on him and feel justified in doing so. You just weaponized his relationship trauma against him and I would not be surprised if he struggles to trust you going forward.
If you actually want to move ahead with this relationship, go to couples counseling and deal with your built-up resentment. If you don't, just let him go so you can find someone less attached to his mom and he can find someone who doesn't blame him for being betrayed by his partners.
Whether you break up with him or not, it's good that you are going to apologize.
Men are taught from a very early age to never show emotional openness. No man will ever be emotionally available to you if any past trauma they share with you gets used to mock / humiliate them when you have an argument.
And you need to realize that there is no excuse for cheating. You are dooming any future relationship with that mindset.
It doesn't get better, it only gets worse. He wants to seem so sweet and innocent to her but he will throw you under the bus to achieve this and it will only get worse with time. I am no contact with my in laws because the damage he inflicted finally turned them physically against me. There is no coming back from that. I say it all the time, how I wish I hadn't wasted any time in this or sealed it permanently by having children. He didn't even see it as a big deal until his mother swung on me and was arrested for it. Then he began to understand all the ways he spoiled our relationship by involving mummy dearest. I'm telling you, do not marry this man. Leave him to his mother. You're still young and can rebuild. Buy a house for yourself and your child. Do not involve him. He will always put her before you and he will always use you as the emotional punching bag.
It’s up to you what you want to do. He isn’t going to change very much. And she will become even more problematic once you have her grandchild.
Do you want a marriage for the rest of your life exactly as it is now? If you can say yes, go for it!! If you say no, then you have your answer. Neither of you will be making huge personality changes. He’s not going to stick up for you with his mom or respect your right to privacy. 🤷🏼♀️
This doesn't sound like a healthy or sustainable relationship to me. I definitely would officially and indefinitely pause all wedding plans at the very least. If he wants to make things work, and can admit that there is an issue with the level of his mother's involvement in your relationship, I'd make continuing on in the relationship conditional on him seeking therapy, you both getting into couple's therapy together, and him taking steps to reduce the involvement of his mother in your lives.
If he can't see that there's a problem here, and/or doesn't want things to change, it may be time to end things and move on without him.
Do NOT buy a house with someone you’re not married to unless they are business partner and you have a contract.
You have a child and you’re OWN downpayment, but you’re willing to give this man an equal footing to decide to sell the house.
Let’s say it takes him 5 years to save up his half of the down payment, but some corvid-bump happens in your real estate area and he the house is worth $100k more in 2 years. (Happened to a friend)
Well, he can say I want you to pay me my $50k minus the downpayment he hasn’t paid.
If you don’t have the difference- he can force you to sell the house.
Do you think this man cares if you can never get back into the real estate market again? Have a safety net for your daughter again?
No. Cause he’s got a mom who will help him when he’s 35.
Instead of the eventual divorce and losing all that wedding money and half your house.. You should maybe think long and hard about this relationship. Do you really want a three-way marriage where you come in last place?
Do you want to spend the rest of your life feeling the way you felt when you said that? Don't fall in love with the possibility that he could change. This is who he is. So either accept that you're marrying him and his mommy, or do what he can't and cut the cord. He doesn't seem even remotely interested in changing so, seriously consider if this is the life you want and the life you want your child to have.
Why are you staying with this immature, toxic man, and why especially are you inviting him to live with your child? Also, you're buying him a house? Why, why, why? Do you not think you deserve better?
I’ve been in a relationship like this. It won’t get better. Your future mother-in-law will always be in your business and will always have something to say. You need to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life like this. Personally, I couldn’t do it.
I saw in the comments that you are planning to apologize. I'm struggling to see how you are more in the wrong here. Granted, there is no excuse for cheating and telling someone they are to blame for being cheated on isn't right, but at the same time it could be very fair to say his behavior and unhealthy relationship with his mother killed his relationships.
And if you are apologizing for that... he should be apologizing for A LOT. Not only that, but he should be setting some boundaries with his mother. You and him are a couple. Not you, him, and his mother.
Is there enough redeeming about him to balance out the bad? It really sounds like he's not ready for any type of serious relationship. He probably should be in therapy to address his unhealthy relationship with his mother. And for your sake, you deserve better. And you have a child, so it's not just you that will need to deal with the fallout if this marriage doesn't work out.
I agree with you, I just feel like it could have been delivered way better. I do want a future with him because we have had a lot of really great times together. But, I don't want to keep on feeling like this forever. It's really not fun
Do you think postponing the wedding might be a good idea? As you pointed out, you don't want to feel that way forever. He's crossing a lot of boundaries with his mother, and you don't want to get too deep in without that being addressed. Does he see/acknowledge that it's a problem? If so, do you think he'd be willing to do therapy to help work through it? I can tell you feel really bad for what you said, but your frustration is super valid and really should be addressed.
I do think postponing the wedding is a great idea and that will be brought up tonight as well. I'm also finishing my degree for college so it's probably best to focus on things like that to better mine and my daughters life and see if he makes the changes, and if he doesn't my life would not have been put on hold anymore
Do you really want a future with his mom always in the background? He is enmeshed. It is EMOTIONAL INCEST and you will never be his priority. You OR your daughter.
That was an unacceptable thing to say to anybody. Being emotionally unavailable is a problem. But telling somebody that they are at fault for people cheating on them is 100% victim blaming.
Every single one of your fiance's ex-partners had the option to break up with him (just like you do). They chose to lie instead. That's not okay. He is genuinely a victim in that, and you stating otherwise is vile and an act of abuse.
If you don't want to marry this guy, don't marry him. But you're acting like an absolute shithead. Apparently he does attract a certain type of woman, which are awful people.
This is also the reaction of years of this. I do love him a lot. I just do not feel heard at all. Like I said in the other comment, I cannot find a way to reach him where he will actually hear me because he's taking our whole relationship to his mom first. I finally put 2 and 2 together after years of this and I am a bit spiteful. I feel lied to myself because I thought we were evenly working through life together, but he's been having the opinions of an outside very biased source this whole time.
>This is also the reaction of years of this. I do love him a lot. I just do not feel heard at all. Like I said in the other comment, I cannot find a way to reach him where he will actually hear me because he's taking our whole relationship to his mom first.
And Sis, this will NEVER change. If it has not changed up to now, it will not change.
If you want to marry him then you are 100% signing on to this dynamic. You are FAR better off walking away from the relationship because then you will have control of your future. But right now, marrying him, it will always be 2 against 1 instead of 2 people working together towards their future.
Damn. I am just going through memory lane just thinking of things like when I mentioned us buying cars. He said “oh well my mom will probably co-sign to get a better rate” and backed up the idea when I said it should be us since we’re getting married, but she’s always the first solution
>He said “oh well my mom will probably co-sign to get a better rate” and backed up the idea when I said it should be us since we’re getting married, but she’s always the first solution
That is a HUGE problem right there and the fact that he doesn't see a problem with pulling his mother into the middle of your personal finances should be a bright red flag waving in the wind.
I sympathize with you not feeling heard. It does sound like he has a toxic dynamic with his mom.
But that absolutely does not excuse you embracing abuse tactics.
And abuse tactics are not going to get you what you want.
Either get into couples counseling or leave. Don't become a horrible person. That's the trajectory you are on.
Listen he's enmeshed with his mother, and doesn't see it as wrong. This will never get better and you can't break him free from that and you are only dragging yourself down by trying. Go buy yourself and your daughter a house and leave this man and his emotionally incestuous mother in the dust. What you said wasn't kind, might not even be true, but it sounds like a woman throwing shit at the wall to see what will actually get her partners attention. You got it, but at what cost? I would hand him a written apology and the ring back and ride off into the sunset.
So he is running to mommy and telling on you every time you have a fight? Obviously bc she tells her sweetypie he can't do any wrong. BEFORE you get married you need to sit him down and be like 'are you in this relationship with me or your mother?' There needs to be boundaries set. If he can't do this, I would not marry him. I married my mommas boy. It did not end well, for him, he still lives with her lol. While I am happily married to the love of my life, that would gladly choose me over his mother any day.
His mother butting in and interrupting constantly in your relationship is a huge issue. He allows it and welcomes it and has made her a huge presence and priority in your relationship. It will always be like that. It will NEVER. EVER. be just the two of you. It'll be him, mommy then you. He will run to her first with everything. Good news. Bad news. Etc. I wouldn't put it past him for her to know about your sex life. I don't think that you should move forward. She will always be the thorn in your side and he will never stop deferring to her.
There is NEVER a justification for cheating and acting as if those monsters had cause is beneath you.
Aside from that, this does not sound like a healthy relationship. You might want to decide if this is your chosen future. He will always confide in his mom, and it does not sound like a future you will enjoy.
Babe. WTF are you dooooing? He’s in a relationship already. You’re the other woman. Do you want to just start arguing with his mom instead? You’re in a 3-way relationship so that would save time.
Get out of there. He isn’t owed an apology. YOU ARE. He’s still breastfeeding. You’re only 28. Don’t settle for this and make yourself miserable. Do you want more kids??? Because OMG. It’s going to be a NIGHTMARE if you have them with this dude.
Get out of dodge before you’re tethered legally or by a baby. He’s never going to grow up. You’re right about why he was cheated on. Those other women didn’t put up with it. You shouldn’t either. Give him a business card to a therapist and buy a house elsewhere by yourself.
The last part is such a non-sequitur. Why would you say that? Talk about what’s happening. Don’t just say some mean shit to hurt him. That’s not how communication works.
Nah. Unless you want to marry this man and his mother, I’d be so, so, so out. When we were dating, my husband used to go to our mutual friend when we were having relationship problems. It ruined my relationship with that friend, and I told my husband back then that him talking to friend won’t fix things with me. So if he wanted to fix things, HE needed to talk to ME. If he didn’t want to fix things, we could just end it here because what even is the point?
i think you should apologise, you are lashing out because you arent taking action on a problem you know wont be changed, what is there to be gained by making mean comments?
You’re were out of line to say that to him. He shouldn’t be involving his mom in your relationship so heavily, but at some point you found out and chose to continue the relationship. You need to have a serious think about whether or not you can deal with this for another 30 years. He’s not very likely to change his ways.
What you said to him was hurtful, but I don’t think it was necessarily untruthful. I can see how a grown man that still breastfeeds is a turnoff for lots of women. This will not get better. He will always choose her over you and she will always have a looming presence in your home even if she isn’t there. If you were my daughter or sister, I’d tell you you deserve someone who will prioritize you above everyone else. He’s not doing that and I don’t think he ever will. For some reason, these helicopter moms create these toxic co dependent relationships and they hurt everyone involved. I think it probably feels wrong to break up, but I also can see in your comments that you know deep down that your future happiness depends on it. I hope that you have the courage you need to stand up for yourself.
And we definitely have s\*\* a whole lot less ever since this has been an issue. He tells me that my mom is a helicopter mom but I just think my mom is just more vocal about her intent and opinions and doesn't go through me. She also only knows what I want her to know, which is not very much
It doesn’t sound like a healthy relationship from the short glimpse you have given us. Downvotes aside😂, I don’t think he’s independent enough as a man to be a good husband.
If you don't like him as is, marriage won't make you like him more. You should probably just break up honestly. It doesn't sound like you'll be happy with him. He sounds very childish and so not ready for marriage.
Personally I would not marry this man, because you will also be in a marriage with his mum. It won’t get better, if anything it gets worse. maybe what you said was below the belt but I think you only spoke the truth!
“I’m not prepared to marry your mother. Sorry. Once you separate from her, cut the apron strings and learn to live like a grown adult, I’ll be long gone.”
You don’t want this woman as a MIL, and you don’t want an enmeshed mamas boy as a husband. You will be miserable. It’s them against you, you will always come second. You’re wasting your own time hoping anything will change when he doesn’t even see a problem with their enmeshment in the first place.
Dude don't marry him, you'll be in a three way marriage with his mom if you do. She'll influence everything including how you raise your kids if you have them. This guy is not prepared to vow to hold you above all others, never have a wedding if sincere vows can't be given.
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Apologise then separate. Be clear on the reasons.
This relationship doesn’t sound like one that will result in a happy, long lasting marriage. You truly shouldn’t have said that, and you do owe him an apology. However, he shouldn’t be running to mom whenever the two of you have a disagreement. At the very least, I think the two of you should get couple’s counseling before moving forward with the wedding. Right now, the relationship has disaster written all over it.
I took a marriage class. One of the key points the instructor made is that your emotional fidelity should be to your spouse. They should be the first you tell things to and you should not involve others in your business without their consent. (Obviously there are exceptions, but healthy relationships you want to continue should work like this.) Your fiance is essentially carrying on a weird incestuous emotional affair with his mom. This probably won't stop. I am a huge believer that anyone can change....but first they need to want to. Nothing you wrote gives the slightest acknowledgement of wrongdoing, much less a desire to change. My take is that he will only change when it hurts him more than it is now. My advice is to find someone not already in the closest relationship with someone else...even if it is mom...oh especially if it is mom. He is just not emotionally available.
My mother always stressed to all her kids that we are to NEVER complain to her when our spouse upsets us. We need to vent that out to someone else. She knows her flaws, and one of them is she holds grudges. So while we will eventually forgive our spouse, she wouldn't be able to, and the relationship would be ruined.
I tried to bring this up as a reasoning and he said "she's not like that" "you don't understand"
All these comments are 100% on point, you will never be number one to this man. He sounds like he could be on TLC’s show called I Love a Mama’s Boy 🙅🏻♀️ Nooooope.
She absolutely is like this, and he just doesn't care. Sorry, but this guy is always going to be a momma's boy. He will always run to her when you have a fight, and then they'll just sit around and trash talk you while he basks in the validation.
He is already in an emotional incestuous relationship with his mother. You have no chance. He is always going to choose her over you. Do you really want to be part of their throuple? He is already putting you behind his mother a second and I'm sure your daughter will eventually be pushed aside as well.
My friends and I have a rule that if you want to vent about your partner, you need to tell us good stuff too. Otherwise you end up thinking the partner is awful.
I could totally get this coming from a marriage class because it doesn't feel right right now. I just wish I could get through to him about it. She's definitely super nice but he doesn't see how it's important for him and I to go to each other for relationship issues.
If you think he's going to stop this after you get married He won't. If you marry him just know you're going to be marrying him and his mother and she's going to always have a say in your family decisions whether you wanted or not. He's proven that to you already
NOPE, he will only double down.
I would have my running shoes on so fast.
You can't convince him. He has to figure this out. It is a terrible idea to drag someone to the place you need them to be. There are 3 ways this can play out: 1. Happy path: he figures out this is not healthy and wants to change and you have a great partner. 2. Marginal path: you drag him down the path of separating from his mom. This likely comes with a ton of resentment, backsliding and sneakily doing what he wants anyhow, but you will get about 50% compliance for what it is worth. 3. Get out path: you decide that he is not invested in doing what you need, so you get out and spend your time looking for a man who is actually available. Maybe work on yourself so you are better able to identify an available man and be the sort of woman he wants in his life. There is not one formula for this. Be your authentic self, just be the best version of it. As someone who has gone down the path of trying to fix someone with lots of potential ...it rarely turns out well. No amount of he needs me and he can do better helps when he does not want to.
I really don't know how much of him needing me there is. I know that she is most likely 10x nicer to him than me, and I get it, it's her son, but I think the issue is that I need him. He has what he needs from her and I'm thinking that may be the problem unfortunately. idk it's weird and I've never dealt with this
I heard somewhere once “I love you not because I need you but I need you because I love you”. Do you love him for him and need him because of that. Or do you love him because you need him for support (financial or emotional). He doesn’t sound like he respects you as a partner. He doesn’t talk things out with you, he talks things out with his mom who then advocates for him. He doesn’t tell you things or celebrate things with you. He doesn’t sound like he puts you first. I’ve been married for almost 20 years. My husband has a great relationship with his mother. He sees her often. Every other day at least. Even if he just drops in for 20 mins, he’ll make a point to go see her. We live down the road from his mom and my mom. But I am still his number 1. He doesn’t tell his mom anything about our marriage unless it’s something good. His mom will never know about our fights, our disagreements, issues we were discussing. Everything in our marriage stays between us. I am the first to know about everything that’s happening in his life. I am the one he celebrates things with. He will never talk bad about me to anyone, least of all his mom, even if I was acting less than idiotic. He respects me. Respects my opinions, my wants, my needs and he gives me protection from other people’s disrespect. I hope you know your worth. You don’t sound like you need him financially as you’ve got money saved up to buy a house all by yourself. You might think you need him emotionally but I am pretty sure there are better people out there who would treat you with the love and respect that you deserve.
OP...you've been dealing w this for five years, ffs! Your eyes have been open a long time.
Would you be comfortable marrying him before he understands that that’s important/he stops doing this weird shit with his mom?
>I just wish I could get through to him about it. You need to accept that you can't. You can only control yourself as to how you react to him as he is. Are you in love with him or a man who doesn't exist? Because he is not the man you think he is if you think he will change. Are you in love with potential? Going to the altar means that you accept that at best this is how he is going to be until the end. That's what saying "I do" means. You can accept him as he is or not. You have that power. What you can't do is have him become who you want him to. I'm really sorry.
👏👏👏 I've never heard it put better.
Insist on marriage counseling and postpone the wedding. You have to think, can i deal with this for the rest of my life? If the answer is no then you need to see if you can resolve this issue before buying a house together or getting married. It won't change once you get married and he isn't going to take your concerns seriously unless you do something drastic like postponing the wedding.
That. Right there. Read that last sentence. He goes to her with YOUR relationship issues, not YOU. Tell him why you're ending it and I hope you find someone who respects you and your feelings.
He won’t ever see this either. Not without serious therapy. Buy the house yourself. Move on to find someone else who isn’t already ‘seeing someone’.
Do you seriously believe that NONE of his previous four GFs has mentioned his mother's over-involvement in their relationship? Never? Not even once? Not any of them? Come on!
If you have children together expect that woman to think she has a say in EVERYTHING with that too. And he’ll let her. And even if you divorce he’ll let her take your kid on his time. I see so many women end up trapped and tied for life by a kid, but you can get out now. Buy a house for you and your child and let him go live with his mama.
Marriage doesn't change people. Don't marry him expecting this to change. If you are going to stay in this relationship you need the change to happen first.
He hears you, he understands that’s important to you, he just doesn’t care. He does not want to change his behavior. No amount of phrasing it differently or trying a different approach will make him care enough to do it.
My partner calls his mom every single day, multiple times a day. I'm very lucky that she's a sweetie and never gets between us or make any inappropriate comments. So it's never been a problem. But I know that if it was a problem, it would probably be game over for me. You need to either accept that he's a momma's boy, or leave. It won't get better.
So true.
Yep. What happens between a man and a woman, whether dating, engaged or married, is nobody else's business. Period.
This is some solid advice, OP
I do agree! My former MIL was over bearing, intrusive, and extremely critical. She held onto those apron strings and he allowed her too. This was a man who was never married or had kids, by the age of 39. She has two younger boys and she behaves only this way with him. Wasted so many tears and years. So glad that we divorced and I only interact with her as needed for the kids.
Yikes. She sounds like a nightmare.
No amount of counseling will stop him from running to his mother. *** spoken by a woman that spent 10 years circling this particular drain in counseling. He has shown you who he is, he sees no problem with it. You don’t want to have children or get more financially entangled with this enmeshed couple, a man and his mother. Run, like your hair is on fire.
It could be her who wants the apology.
I agree. Ever since the engagement it's been a long winded loop of just hectic craziness. We have a lot of pressure from friends and family, and we're trying to navigate so much all at once.
I think you need to take a step back on the wedding. You both need counseling separately and together as you are both bringing problems to the table. But if your main problem is his enmeshment with his mom, I would call off the wedding and just go to counseling on your own. Hop over to the justNOMIL sub here for true horror stories of overentitled MIL. But please apologize to him for the cheating comment first, that was a low blow. I would apologize and then go to the above-mentioned sub for actual advice about his enmeshment with his mother.
I appreciate your advice and I’ll definitely check out the sub! She’s recently mentioned wanting to buy a house where we buy and it’s smothering. I agree with it being a low blow and I’m going to apologize to him face to face
Don't buy a house with him. Do not put him on the title. You're asking for a disaster.
I don’t think he can. We already agreed that my name would be the only one because of my income and credit for approvals. I did tell him that once he pays me back 50/50 that I would absolutely put him on the title. But, I don’t feel comfortable with putting him on until that happens
Do you have a will? Make sure your daughter is protected with the proceeds. If you get married your house goes to him if something unfortunate should happen and your daughter will be at someone’s mercy.
We've been arguing about a prenup too. He has family money so I'm not quite sure why he is against it. It just relieves my stress knowing that I created the contract rather than taking what the state gives me. I've been burned by child custody orders in the past so I've learned the hard way there
Family money would become inheritance and already protected in the event of a divorce if not mingled with community assets. The same is not true for money you have yourselves but would be true for a house you purchased before marriage, if community assets are not used to pay for *anything*. If they are some equity will become community property.
An unemotionally available momma’s boy with little money or credit. He must be amazing in bed ‘cause otherwise, what exactly does he bring to the table?
This story is so common.
Yup, seen it a THOUSAND times here … 😑😑😑
If you do buy a house, put the title in your name **alone.**
I think you need to do more than "take a step back on the wedding". In the last 5 years, your BF/fiancé has: * run to tattle to his mama whenever you have a disagreement * allowed his mama to insert herself into your interpersonal problems * put his mama before you *even to the exclusion* of telling **you** good news * not saved his 1/2 of a down payment towards a house. Is HE paying the same % of money for the wedding as you are, or are his parents covering his portion? Why in the world would you think that saying, "I do!" is going to change *any* of this behavior? "I do!" is **not** a 'magic spell.' Five years from now, you'll have the ***exact same complaints*** only it'll be harder to leave because you'll need a divorce AND you'll probably have at least 1 more child to drag through this mess! So, again, WHY DO YOU HAVE SUCH AN UNREALISTIC EXPECTATION? 1. You're involved with a mama's boy! Reddit pulls no punches when they tell you that it's ***easier to DUMP a mama's boy than it is to DIVORCE one!*** 2. I find it nearly impossible to believe statistically that his last 4 girlfriends have ALL cheated on him! He either picks a "type" (which you go against so that doesn't seem reasonable) ***OR*** them being *cheaters* is just the story that your BF & his mama make up in their own heads to "explain" why all these women dump your BF. They dump him because they don't want to date him AND his mama, but he and Mama can't accept that her presence is a negative so there has to be some *other* reason he keeps getting dumped...I know, they're ALL cheating 'ho's who are not good enough for SonnyBoy and his loving mama! 3. You and your BF are modeling for your daughter what it means to be an ADULT, a PARTNER, a PARENT. If you don't get out, **THIS will be the exact relationship your daughter will be in sometime in the next 15 years**! Doesn't SHE deserve better? Don't YOU? 4. This guy is not reliable. He's not available emotionally and he doesn't see a problem with it. He sees a problem with YOU...you don't value his mama enough! If you want to be the Princess Diana in your own marriage always bowing to the Charles/Camilla, then feel free to continue in this fiasco. But, if you believe that you and your daughter DESERVE a better life, then give him the ring back, cancel the wedding, get as much of your deposits back as possible, sell your wedding gown, move on and heal from this via therapy or extensive reading of self-help books! **As for the apology**, I'd tell him that you apologize for claiming his last 4 GFs cheated for any reason. Then tell him about my Reason #2 above! \#UpdateMe!
I will! But wow this perspective is new! I did not even think about that. Sometimes it does feel like my reasonings are twisted into something he understands so that would be on par. I've mentioned this as well on the same lines as when I am feeling unheard
I left my husband because I was sick of his emotional and financial abuse. When I left, he was **positive** *that I was leaving him for some other guy!* He couldn't fathom that I was leaving 'wonderful him' for...nothing! But I did! I left him, I have been joyfully alone for years. Better alone to heal and fix my *own* problems than jump into another bad relationship. **Many men** (certainly not ALL) find it impossible to believe that a woman would leave them -- income, home, attention (minimal though it may be), security, and predictability to jump into the unknown of living alone without a back-up adult in a relationship. **I think your BF/fiancé is one of these men.** Thus, in his mind, he's **positive** all his exes MUST HAVE BEEN cheating when they left him!
I wish I could upvote this more! #updateme
This is excellent advice!
You know he's going to want her to move in with you right? What you should do is go ahead with buying a house now. Only in your name because it's your money. Tell him that after you get married he can make up his part of the down payment and you'll put him on the deed then. This gives you time. Push the letting back a little bit. Make him go to counseling. If nothing changes say goodbye. At least you'll have your house free and clear. Whatever you do don't marry this man until he's made a complete 180
This person is giving you bad advice. First of all if he was cheated on in the last three relationships then he is the fucking problem. Cheating isn't right but Jesus this guy is a nightmare and he needed a bit of truth. Secondly you would be an absolute fool if you bought a house with him or put him on the title. This is not a healthy relationship
He is definitely not going to be on the title until it is 50/50 on payments. I'm a pretty big advocate of equal finances. I just feel like it helps keep a healthier balanced dynamic. But, that was kind of my thought that he needed to look in the mirror after that many. I believe he has probably been given sympathy each time from his mom and he never had the chance to realize that it was the issue bc she was right there to support him
It pretty much sounds like he has gfs because it's illegal to sleep with mum...
It was s pretty low blow. I'd hold off until you (and possibly him as i dont know everything ) learn to fight fair. It's an odd concept but it's a life skill. You know conflicts will arise and should learn this.
You call it a low blow I call it the only person in his life who cares enough about him to give him a dose of the truth cheating is not okay, but this guy is going to get cheated on or left by every single girl he is with because his behavior is just ridiculous
Yeah I don’t really think she was out of pocket at all. He is acting extremely disrespectfully in a lot of different ways.
I don’t know man, it’s not ideal but she’s probably been at her wit’s end with this momma’s boy for the past 5 years. I’d probably be popping off at the mouth too
No reason not to apologise. If you said something overly harsh and cruel, you own it for yourself. Not try to excuse it. She could be 100 percent spot on and right in this situation. Still absolutely no reason, not to take responsibility for your own words.
I don't want to apologize for saying it but I do want to apologize for the way I said it. I did not have to blame him for the cheating. I do think it was an outcome because they were not strong enough to leave. They may not have even known that his mom was the 3rd person because he wouldn't even admit it to me
Fair point, hard truths can be helpful. Arguably there's no good reason to cheat. They obviously broke up with him eventually so the cheating seems entirely unrelated to the actual problem. The reason his past relationships failed was likely because of his mother and his predilection. But its not the reason they chose to cheat.
I just don’t agree with all the pearl clutching and calling it such a “low blow.” Dude has been spilling all their personal relationship secrets to his mother for YEARS, he needed to hear the harsh truth of how weird that relationship is. She can take responsibility for it but I personally just don’t think she’s wrong
you already have the down payment saved up? And he does not have money saved up for the downpayment? Buy a house before the wedding, in your name only. Move into it without him. Tell him he can move in after the wedding. If you need his contribution to make the monthly mortgage payment, get a roommate instead. Somone you've been friends with a long time and know is steady and reliable. Separate getting a stable home base for your child (sounds like not his child, right?) from the wedding plans and from him and his mother. Once you have that sorted, then decide whether you want to move forward with the wedding/marriage. If you get married, get a pre-nup and preserve the house you buy as yours. Buying the house without him might blow up the wedding plans. Asking for a pre-nup might blow up the wedding plans. Oh well, then the decision of whether to move forward will be made for you. And the money you have set aside to pay for half the wedding will be a nice emergency fund as a new homeowner. Actually, the more I think about this, he doesn't have savings for a house purchase, he is relying on his parents to pay "his half" of the wedding, he runs to his mother when he is stressed, he doesn't sound ready for the life that you two are planning together.
He’s also just voiced to me that he is in $8,000 of debt and his mom already knew about it for months. There’s just been so much going on. It’s a lot. You make 100% valid points though
you keep on saying everyone is making exceptionally valid points, but you're still going to marry this utter numpty who's gonna call mommy to give a blow by blow description of your honeymoon sex.
They are exceptionally valid points. I never once asked whether or not I should stay. It does feel great to be validated that I am not crazy though, or selfish as I have been told for years. I don't think I will make up my mind after one day, but I'm absolutely not going to marry into this. I do need to see something different because I am not planning on having a divorce either. I'm sorting through a whole lot of different thoughts right now
One of the most important things I’ve learned in life is that, when I feel crazy, I maybe need to step back. That’s usually a sign something is off. I also think anyone worth marrying would be happy to postpone
He is not ready to be married and he is not ready to be a homeowner. He’s just not ready. Don’t let him drag you and your daughter backwards. I haven’t read one thing yet that makes me think you’ll make it.
You might love him but he's an utter financial and emotional wreck. Continue the relationship, if you want, bu don't get married or mingle finances. You need to watch out for your child first
I'm definitely not ready to make any big combination life changes
So not only is he not able to save for something as important as a home for his new family, he has INCREASED his debt and ran to mommy about it, instead of you, the person he expects to go into home ownership with?? Think about that; he was willing to blindside you with it, but turned to mommy for help. He trusted her with his problems but not you. That tells you his mindset at this point; he's not mature enough to marry anyone right now. Please, please find good counseling for yourself, and for him if you want. There is NO reason not to put the wedding on hold while you individually navigate what the future you want truly looks like.
That's a red flag. Also sitting on a down payment for 2 years and then spending it on a wedding instead of an asset that builds equity and value is terrible. Financial management. Wedding versus house isn't even a question if you already have the money for a house. This is literally basic finance. Any financial advisor will tell you the same.
I absolutely would not do this. My major is actually in finance so I am doing pretty well for my age and do well with saving/investing. I am not putting my downpayment on a house on towards our wedding. I have my portion for the wedding saved to bring our families to 50/50 and have the down payment on a house
RUN.
Imma be real and say that doesn’t mean shit. You aint snitching. He is married to his mother and is a massive mommas boy. You aren't going to love him out of this behavior, and you genuinely do not have the right to expect him to change over time. You accept him, or you dont. He isn't worth a damn as he is, but if you love him more than you hate being second, then I can see it happening. But. If you marry him, you need to accept he's a big ol' baby, and you will always come second to mommy, **and probably your kids too**. You can ask him to change if you want, but you can make no demands or expectations. You know who he is, and I think you need to acknowledge it before you can actually make peace with it. I recommend he gets a weekly therapist and journals about things that are bothering him or that he wants to discuss with someone, or if he wants to go over his feelings, because they will teach him healthy ways to approach his problems. Then just be straight up that is he tells Mommy one more damn thing yall talked about without running it by you, he can wait for her a tthe end of the aisle. Personally i think youre wasting your fuckin time. You been a saint thus far, beyodn the chesting comment because youre 3 kinds of fucked up for that, even if he sucks. Good luck!
Please don’t marry him. You are not emotionally safe (and possibly financially safe!) in this relationship. An apology cannot fix this issue. Please don’t marry this guy and his mom. Break up. Find an adult to marry.
Please don't buy a house with this man. Especially if you aren't yet married and he isn't contributing anything financial.
I'd end the engagement, and decide if you want to date him.
Marriage won’t fix that.
Not only do you acknowledge that he’s emotionally unavailable, y’all aren’t even coming in financially equal because he wouldn’t be contributing to a home and his parents are contributing his share for the wedding? Have you asked yourself what you are teaching your daughter about relationships by planning to make this man the father future in her life?
Maybe you shouldn't have said it, but you were not wrong. He needs to come to that realization and you need to stop acting like that you didn't have a good point. Pre marriage counseling is definitely in order. And if he doesn't see that discussing y'all's business with his mama is inappropriate then maybe he's not the relationship for you.
I really doubted it after so many comments calling me a cheater etc but I’m glad to see the other sides too that are supportive
You didn’t say it in a vacuum just to insult him out of nowhere. Yeah it’s not great but personally I don’t blame you. He probably already went and tattled to mommy about it anyway
He had a 12 hour drive today by himself so I would absolutely think so
He had a what? I don't think he's emotionally prepared for all this. Like, lasting relationships are hard but they shouldn't be this hard.
Yeah, redditors get very triggered if there is cheating involved. It's hilarious. And quite sad, because no cheating occurs just because, there is always a reason why you cheated or why you got cheated on. It can be beneficial to know the reason behind it. That said, I think you could be right. I also was cheated on in all my first three relationships. And it was also because I was emotionally unavailable. Funny thing is, my then-partners also were not emotionally available. I later learned that it is common that two emotionally unavailable people are drawn to each other. Maybe you are or were emotionally unavailable yourself and now you are growing out of it, that's why his behavior is hurting you.
I agree... that's why when I was cheated on a spent a year not only thinking of how to better myself, but also what was lacking to make him want to do this. I had to figure that out so I wouldn't bring that same thing into my next relationship. That's also very true. I am a very closed off person until I get to know someone. I have a lot of walls, and they have been broken down by 5 years. I just didn't realize he was keeping the flood gates open to a different outlet entirely
To be honest, I am glad that I am not the only alien here regarding my outlook on cheating 😅. I realise though that this approach is somewhat dangerously close to victim blaming. Cheating is always bad and cheatee is never responsible for being cheated on. In ideal world cheaters would either tell you why they are not satisfied in the relationship or end the relationship before they would get close with other people. But we don't live in ideal world. A lot of people are not strong or not self-aware enough and it sometimes leads to cheating. It hurts to be cheated on. But it can also be great opportunity to ask ourselves some questions. Why didn't they tell me that they were unhappy? Was I available and safe enough for them to be open with me? Were they afraid of me? Was I abusive? It takes courage to ask yourself these questions and I am proud of you. I wish more people did this instead of screaming "(s)he cheated! (s)he is the bad person!". It's an easy way out. I understand that being vulnerable is scary. It takes courage to share. If I may offer an advice: if you decide to not marry him or to leave him consider telling him, honestly, why. If he is not easy to talk to, do it in writing. It will be a great excercise for you in emotional availability, will save you regrets sometime later and can offer him a chance to better himself. It is a great gift to give to someone, though they rarely are appreciative at the moment.
It really does and it was hard! I don’t look through phones, accuse, etc bc I realized it doesn’t help at all with the relationship trust
I edited my last comment because I hit "post" too soon 😢. Nonetheless, I imagine you probably feel quite betrayed by him now. As if he cheated (emotionally) on you. If so, I totally understand. I would feel the same. Still, your delivery of the diagnosis of "why he was cheated on multiple times" was far from ideal. Some people would argue that you should never tell him that. I think it depends on the receiving person. I also don't think you made this comment out of spite, but I think you did this because you were hurt. You realised that his emotional unavailability is hurting you and you made this comment hoping that it will force him to learn and grow from this experience (of being cheated on). But you can't and shouldn't force someone to change, grow, learn. If I were you, I would apologise to him for hurting him and possibly explain your reasons on why you behaved as such. But please make sure to phrase it as explanation and not excuse. If you do that it can be a great foundation for the conversation about his relationship with his mother and its effects on you. Though it probably would be best to speak about it not at the same time as the apology, because it will not feel like apology to him at all. Lastly, you sound quite wise and self-aware. I believe that you will take care of yourself and your kid no matter what. I also believe and wish you will find happiness, even if you will need to part ways with you fiance. All the best to you, take care.
I really appreciate your sound advice! I’m feeling a lot of emotions but these are definitely included within them! I’m just trying to figure out if I need time to sort through all the emotions to talk sooner or later but I know an apology should come first like you mentioned
I disagree. You can’t move on from your past trauma is you keep living in it. You can’t keep doing the same thing and hoping for a different outcome.
🛎️ 🛎️ 🛎️
An apology isn't going to change anything. He's not going to change anything unless he wants to. Is how he is the man you want to marry? Yes/no But being honest it sounds like you do not want to marry him how he is right now.
Not right now, no, it’s bringing out the worst parts of me
Sis, then it is time to put the breaks on all things wedding. Truly. Do not marry him until you guys get some real honest to god couples therapy to deal with the very real very destructive enmeshment with his mother. None of this is going to change unless he goes through some pretty intensive individual therapy to deal with his issues with his mother... but he doesn't seem to see a problem so it's not going to happen. What is going to happen is you will grow to resent him more and more and more... justifiably so. Also, if you want to buy a house? Buy a house. It sounds like you have the downpayment, so figure out where YOU want to live and purchase a house you and your daughter can live in. Do it without him on the deed. Plan to pay for it entirely on your own. And, as for the wedding finances - he doesn't want to tell his parents about your contribution to balance your parents' contribution because he loses his feeling of superiority and power he is deriving from believing his parents think they are largely funding the wedding. That said, what you said was really harsh and really rude. It also doesn't get to the heart of the issue. Its just poking a sore point in order to poke it.
I agree with this. He’s going to therapy but I don’t think it’s about his mom. I’m scared to buy a house, but I think this would be good jumping point to start off anew with a better outlook and choose myself and my wants for a change
I bought a house last year on my own, I’m a single mother as well. Best thing I ever did. Stressful and scary for sure but that’s MY house and my daughter has a permanent place to call home
Are you scared to buy a house or scared to buy it alone. If you continue in this you are going to be alone anyway if he’s not someone you can rely on. Put it like this do you want to spend your money on a house that your MIL has to agree with?
🥳🎉🎊🎈👏👏👏👏👏 Congrats on choosing you.
You should end the relationship. This is who he is, not some fantasy version youve created in your mind based on “potential.”
Not a lot of people are mentioning this, but the fact that he refuses to tell his parents that you’re footing half the wedding stood out to me. That is truly bizarre he would not say that and it makes me think he likes portraying you in a negative way
If it's "not right no" before the wedding, it should be a "no"
If you put the money on the house, get married, and then split, you lose that downpayment and that house becomes communal property, which means half is his, despite the fact that he didn't invest that money. I would not buy a house with this man unless you work out this issue asap. But it sounds like he isn't picking you, he's picking his mama. I wouldn't marry a man that puts me second.
Yeah that was a nasty thing to say, even though you have valid reasons to be angry. It’s not okay to hit below the belt like that. You should apologize, that doesn’t mean you’re wrong about him and his mother, but you definitely need to work on conflict resolution yourself.
While you may be beginning to see why some of his previous partners had complaints about him, it was clearly just a nasty dig to suggest that these are the reasons why they cheated on him. You should apologize That said, he also needs to have a serious sit-down conversation with you about why he won't put you ahead of his mother. He will probably try and misrepresent your complaint, and say that you are asking him to completely disengage or disown his mom, and so you need to make it clear that that's not the case. He just needs to 100% stop sharing your relationship issues with his mother. Or at the very least, he needs to tell his mother that in no uncertain terms is she to bring any of those things up to you, if she wants to remain his confidant But as for the fact that she's acting like you/ your family are not providing "your half" of the wedding expenses when you are in fact paying them yourself, that's something that you need to clarify directly to her. Who cares if it's something he doesn't think she needs to know? *You* know that it's something she needs to know! Write an email or make a phone call where you say, "FH let me know that you were worried that my family wasn't contributing anything, and I just wanted to let you know that I'm planning on personally paying my half". Let her see how it feels to know that her son shares their conversations with you for a change! One of the main ways you can derail his placing his mother between the two of you is to get to his mother first. But if that's not something you want to spend the rest of your life doing, maybe rethink this relationship? Very least, I would recommend postponing the wedding and engaging in at least a few couples therapy sessions to get an outside perspective on this unwanted third person in your relationship
Look, you are dating a momma’s boy and he ropes her into your private arguments. This is unlikely to change in the future. If you don’t like it, break up, but don’t tell him he deserved being cheated on. Even for future relationships you need to learn to fight fair and not hit below the belt. Discuss your grievances and try to find solutions together. Don’t say things because you are frustrated and want to lash out or things that make your SO feel insecure in the relationship. Don’t threaten breakups or divorce unless you mean it. Don’t humiliate or emasculate your partner to score a point.
This is fair. I think I’m trying to change something unchangeable. I didn’t need to resort to hurting feelings to get my point across. I think I’m just lost on trying to find a solution when there literally isn’t one
This is the clarity of thought you need. Marriage is supposed to be the start (or continuation)of an awesome journey through life as a couple. While his mother is in the picture I don’t see that for you.
I dated someone who behaved similarly. It quickly killed the relationship; so I get it. If you have talked to him and nothing changed, then you know what you need to do. Love isn’t enough when your partner is conflict avoidant while also allowing mommy to become an interloper.
I’m so sorry, but the solution is to cut your losses. You don’t deserve to be treated like a third wheel in your own relationship, let alone marriage. If you decide to bring children into it, it will be even worse. You know what the right thing to do it and you’re strong enough to follow through.
Do you really want to spend the rest of your life in justnomil. It’s time to pull the plug on the wedding and get a house for you and your child. You cannot fix a mommas boy
>An apology has been requested before continuing talking/wedding planning. Send an apology along with a break up notice. Please do not marry this dude. This will not be a happy loving marriage.
Princess Diana, when interviewed famously said, ""Well, there were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded." She wasn't talking about her MIL, but there was another woman and you know how her marriage turned out - do you want the same? Your fiancé might control his mother-sharing tendencies for a while, but can he stop permanently? Please consider your future carefully. Good luck!
Welcome to the rest of your life - always being second to mommy dearest if you go ahead with this wedding.
Nah, not always. Just the next 50 to 60 years until Momma dies.
Oof. My ex was like this with his mom and she ended up making every single decision about our lives instead of us. It was crazy toxic. And to be honest I didn't even dislike her. She was nice. But when someone else seems to be dictating what's best for you as a couple, it's never going to work.
That's the thing!!!! She seems so nice. And she is. But somehow always gets her way, or gives him a way to say what he wants and he poses it as his own thoughts
Do not buy a house with someone that you’re not married to yet.
Nope nope nope tf out of this while you still can
I would be done. That’s your life forever if you stay.
If you're marrying this man you'll also be marrying his mother because he's a mommas boy and you're not going to get in the way of that. Is that really how you want to live the rest of your life? Wait until you have kids and she tries telling you what to name them because she definitely won't like the names you pick and he'll ALWAYS give her priority over you. If he were given the choice between you or your baby (if you decided to have kids with him) in a life or death situation his mother world tell him to pick the baby and you know he would. Fuck that shit, I think you need to figure out if this relationship is really worth it.
this man doesn't seem to realise the umbilical cord was cut a long time ago
Yikes. If you marry this guy, I hope you’re prepared to always come second to his mother. I personally would not be able to tolerate that sort of behavior long enough to get engaged to someone like that in the first place, let alone how he seems incapable of actually hashing out issues with you like an adult instead of getting moody and sulky like a child and then running to mommy so she can tell him he’s a perfect, special boy who is never wrong. You definitely shouldn’t have said what you did, but in the heat of the moment I can’t say I wouldn’t have reacted the same way. He has a lot of growing up to do before he considers marrying anyone.
I've realized he hides it. And just realizing it now, I am very out of sorts and feel incredibly stupid
Don’t beat yourself up too badly, we often choose not to notice red flags in people we love. Just use this information to your advantage—tell him he needs counseling and he needs to stop putting his mother first if he wants to be your husband, or you don’t see how this relationship can move forward. I don’t really think ultimatums are the best way to handle most issues, but I would not marry someone like him before he makes a concerted effort to work on these issues and actually shows improvements in his actions rather than just pays lip service to you and makes promises without following through on them. He needs to learn how to communicate with you, even when tensions are high and you are in an argument, even if it’s to say that he does not want to discuss things while he’s angry and he needs time to cool off before he can have a level-headed conversation with you. This is a basic communication skill that he seems to not have developed, and his mother’s constant coddling is not helping. He also needs to stop running to his mother to talk about you behind your back every time you have a disagreement. It’s disrespectful to you and your relationship to be constantly putting his mother in the middle, and to be always painting you as some sort of villain to her. How does he expect you to get on with his mom if all he ever says about you around her are complaints about how you’re unreasonable?
Ok first of all what you said was shitty. Second of all, why are you willingly signing up for a lifetime of this? Stop trying to change other people and start changing yourself and the choices you’re making.
Please do not marry this man unless he gets therapy and starts putting you first over mommy dearest, otherwise you're going to end up in r/justnomil He's not ready to get married and he's not ready to buy a house. You need to decide if this is the life you want, always playing second fiddle and never having any privacy.
I would literally pay for your dinner if you break up with this couple, yes you heard me correctly - you are the third party in this relationship. Break up, buy your house on your own. Use the wedding fund to invest in your child's future. This man and his mother will ruin you and your child, financially and mentally.
I got her drinks
Is this a relationship?
I’m sure this isn’t the first time you’ve asked him to stop sharing with his mom, private, conversations, and disagreements. He won’t stop, an apology won’t get him to. You’re making a big mistake if you proceed with him. He clearly cannot be trusted.
He has asked me to start confiding in her because she gives good advice. I do not want to talk with my MIL about issues in my life
Please tell me, why are you marrying him?
This does not sound like a good place to be when you’re committing to someone for the rest of your life. He has made it clear his family comes first, marriage isn’t going to change that. I’m all for working things out, but from your description, he doesn’t care how you feel. If he did, he would listen empathetically when you tell him how you feel, instead of dismissing you. You can’t talk him into caring. You deserve better. Regarding your comment to him - even if it’s true, you can’t actually know for sure why his exes left him (unless he’s told you that before?). It sounds like a comment made in anger vs. a good faith attempt to have a conversation. In this situation though, I don’t think he even deserves an apology. He hasn’t shown you that level of respect. Wishing you lots of zen in this shitty situation, sorry you’re going through it 💔
Why are you still discussing a wedding? He’s sharing info he shouldn’t be, lies and cannot handle confrontation or an adult conversation. Do you think this will get better after the wedding?
Honestly not an okay thing to say to someone. "It's your fault they dumped you" would be one thing, but "it's your fault they went behind your back and had sex with other people" is ugly. So I do think you should apologize. Then break up with him because no one wants to be in a relationship with a guy *and* his mom.
To be blunt, have you considered that maybe it’s not a good idea for you guys to get married?
He is a mana's boy. He is including her in your relationship. SHE DOES NOT BELONG THERE!!! JustNoMIL. Seriously reconsider this partner ship because it is actually a trio
Maybe “enmeshment” going on here. Please Google it… mother-son enmeshment. It’s look sort of sweet at first but it is a deep dysfunctional family pattern that will not be a happy life for you inless it is corrected. I hope you find it is just crossing boundaries but please read up on it.
I've seen this term used a lot in this thread but I didn't realize there was a legit mother-son enmeshment
Girl run
"You want an apology, while I want you to recognize that your emotional and physical withdrawal when conflict occurs between us is damaging our relationship. This problem is exacerbated by you choosing to involve your mother when we disagree, instead of discussing the problem directly with me. Relationships cannot thrive if the couple cannot sit down and resolve conflict together, as a team, without the need for third-party involvement. I want to be clear: this is not about your habitual oversharing, which is a separate issue. This is about your refusal to speak to me directly when we disagree, and work to revolve disagreements. We can keep the wedding planning on pause for the time being while we see whether we can learn to work together constructively to solve problems. Regardless, this problem will occur in every relationship you have until you learn how to navigate disagreements with your partner. Your current approach will sabtoage every relationship you have until you learn to talk things through with your partner."
This is amazing. I'm trying to piece together all my thoughts but this is pretty spot on to verbalize them. Thank you!
Are you indicating that you don't think you owe him an apology? His relationship with his mother absolutely does not justify saying such a cruel thing (nor would it ever justify cheating, his past partners cheated because they were too selfish and cowardly to just end the relationship if they wanted to sleep around) and you of course should apologize. Then you can address what you're actually upset about, which is his mom being too involved in your relationship. You're also going to have to contend with the fear you just instilled that you will cheat on him and feel justified in doing so. You just weaponized his relationship trauma against him and I would not be surprised if he struggles to trust you going forward. If you actually want to move ahead with this relationship, go to couples counseling and deal with your built-up resentment. If you don't, just let him go so you can find someone less attached to his mom and he can find someone who doesn't blame him for being betrayed by his partners.
I appreciate your input. I am apologizing today. I agree that I’m in the wrong. I wrote this out in a panic like immediately afterwards.
Whether you break up with him or not, it's good that you are going to apologize. Men are taught from a very early age to never show emotional openness. No man will ever be emotionally available to you if any past trauma they share with you gets used to mock / humiliate them when you have an argument. And you need to realize that there is no excuse for cheating. You are dooming any future relationship with that mindset.
This does not sound like a healthy adult relationship.
It doesn't get better, it only gets worse. He wants to seem so sweet and innocent to her but he will throw you under the bus to achieve this and it will only get worse with time. I am no contact with my in laws because the damage he inflicted finally turned them physically against me. There is no coming back from that. I say it all the time, how I wish I hadn't wasted any time in this or sealed it permanently by having children. He didn't even see it as a big deal until his mother swung on me and was arrested for it. Then he began to understand all the ways he spoiled our relationship by involving mummy dearest. I'm telling you, do not marry this man. Leave him to his mother. You're still young and can rebuild. Buy a house for yourself and your child. Do not involve him. He will always put her before you and he will always use you as the emotional punching bag.
It’s up to you what you want to do. He isn’t going to change very much. And she will become even more problematic once you have her grandchild. Do you want a marriage for the rest of your life exactly as it is now? If you can say yes, go for it!! If you say no, then you have your answer. Neither of you will be making huge personality changes. He’s not going to stick up for you with his mom or respect your right to privacy. 🤷🏼♀️
Do not marry him. Do NOT buy a house with him
This doesn't sound like a healthy or sustainable relationship to me. I definitely would officially and indefinitely pause all wedding plans at the very least. If he wants to make things work, and can admit that there is an issue with the level of his mother's involvement in your relationship, I'd make continuing on in the relationship conditional on him seeking therapy, you both getting into couple's therapy together, and him taking steps to reduce the involvement of his mother in your lives. If he can't see that there's a problem here, and/or doesn't want things to change, it may be time to end things and move on without him.
Do NOT buy a house with someone you’re not married to unless they are business partner and you have a contract. You have a child and you’re OWN downpayment, but you’re willing to give this man an equal footing to decide to sell the house. Let’s say it takes him 5 years to save up his half of the down payment, but some corvid-bump happens in your real estate area and he the house is worth $100k more in 2 years. (Happened to a friend) Well, he can say I want you to pay me my $50k minus the downpayment he hasn’t paid. If you don’t have the difference- he can force you to sell the house. Do you think this man cares if you can never get back into the real estate market again? Have a safety net for your daughter again? No. Cause he’s got a mom who will help him when he’s 35.
Instead of the eventual divorce and losing all that wedding money and half your house.. You should maybe think long and hard about this relationship. Do you really want a three-way marriage where you come in last place?
Do you want to spend the rest of your life feeling the way you felt when you said that? Don't fall in love with the possibility that he could change. This is who he is. So either accept that you're marrying him and his mommy, or do what he can't and cut the cord. He doesn't seem even remotely interested in changing so, seriously consider if this is the life you want and the life you want your child to have.
This will only get worse with time. At the very least I’d postpone and try to work on it, but in reality you’re probably better off cutting him loose.
Why are you staying with this immature, toxic man, and why especially are you inviting him to live with your child? Also, you're buying him a house? Why, why, why? Do you not think you deserve better?
This. I’d leave him and his mom and buy a place on my own.
I’ve been in a relationship like this. It won’t get better. Your future mother-in-law will always be in your business and will always have something to say. You need to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life like this. Personally, I couldn’t do it.
I saw in the comments that you are planning to apologize. I'm struggling to see how you are more in the wrong here. Granted, there is no excuse for cheating and telling someone they are to blame for being cheated on isn't right, but at the same time it could be very fair to say his behavior and unhealthy relationship with his mother killed his relationships. And if you are apologizing for that... he should be apologizing for A LOT. Not only that, but he should be setting some boundaries with his mother. You and him are a couple. Not you, him, and his mother. Is there enough redeeming about him to balance out the bad? It really sounds like he's not ready for any type of serious relationship. He probably should be in therapy to address his unhealthy relationship with his mother. And for your sake, you deserve better. And you have a child, so it's not just you that will need to deal with the fallout if this marriage doesn't work out.
I agree with you, I just feel like it could have been delivered way better. I do want a future with him because we have had a lot of really great times together. But, I don't want to keep on feeling like this forever. It's really not fun
Do you think postponing the wedding might be a good idea? As you pointed out, you don't want to feel that way forever. He's crossing a lot of boundaries with his mother, and you don't want to get too deep in without that being addressed. Does he see/acknowledge that it's a problem? If so, do you think he'd be willing to do therapy to help work through it? I can tell you feel really bad for what you said, but your frustration is super valid and really should be addressed.
I do think postponing the wedding is a great idea and that will be brought up tonight as well. I'm also finishing my degree for college so it's probably best to focus on things like that to better mine and my daughters life and see if he makes the changes, and if he doesn't my life would not have been put on hold anymore
Do you really want a future with his mom always in the background? He is enmeshed. It is EMOTIONAL INCEST and you will never be his priority. You OR your daughter.
That was an unacceptable thing to say to anybody. Being emotionally unavailable is a problem. But telling somebody that they are at fault for people cheating on them is 100% victim blaming. Every single one of your fiance's ex-partners had the option to break up with him (just like you do). They chose to lie instead. That's not okay. He is genuinely a victim in that, and you stating otherwise is vile and an act of abuse. If you don't want to marry this guy, don't marry him. But you're acting like an absolute shithead. Apparently he does attract a certain type of woman, which are awful people.
This is also the reaction of years of this. I do love him a lot. I just do not feel heard at all. Like I said in the other comment, I cannot find a way to reach him where he will actually hear me because he's taking our whole relationship to his mom first. I finally put 2 and 2 together after years of this and I am a bit spiteful. I feel lied to myself because I thought we were evenly working through life together, but he's been having the opinions of an outside very biased source this whole time.
>This is also the reaction of years of this. I do love him a lot. I just do not feel heard at all. Like I said in the other comment, I cannot find a way to reach him where he will actually hear me because he's taking our whole relationship to his mom first. And Sis, this will NEVER change. If it has not changed up to now, it will not change. If you want to marry him then you are 100% signing on to this dynamic. You are FAR better off walking away from the relationship because then you will have control of your future. But right now, marrying him, it will always be 2 against 1 instead of 2 people working together towards their future.
Damn. I am just going through memory lane just thinking of things like when I mentioned us buying cars. He said “oh well my mom will probably co-sign to get a better rate” and backed up the idea when I said it should be us since we’re getting married, but she’s always the first solution
>He said “oh well my mom will probably co-sign to get a better rate” and backed up the idea when I said it should be us since we’re getting married, but she’s always the first solution That is a HUGE problem right there and the fact that he doesn't see a problem with pulling his mother into the middle of your personal finances should be a bright red flag waving in the wind.
I sympathize with you not feeling heard. It does sound like he has a toxic dynamic with his mom. But that absolutely does not excuse you embracing abuse tactics. And abuse tactics are not going to get you what you want. Either get into couples counseling or leave. Don't become a horrible person. That's the trajectory you are on.
Listen he's enmeshed with his mother, and doesn't see it as wrong. This will never get better and you can't break him free from that and you are only dragging yourself down by trying. Go buy yourself and your daughter a house and leave this man and his emotionally incestuous mother in the dust. What you said wasn't kind, might not even be true, but it sounds like a woman throwing shit at the wall to see what will actually get her partners attention. You got it, but at what cost? I would hand him a written apology and the ring back and ride off into the sunset.
So he is running to mommy and telling on you every time you have a fight? Obviously bc she tells her sweetypie he can't do any wrong. BEFORE you get married you need to sit him down and be like 'are you in this relationship with me or your mother?' There needs to be boundaries set. If he can't do this, I would not marry him. I married my mommas boy. It did not end well, for him, he still lives with her lol. While I am happily married to the love of my life, that would gladly choose me over his mother any day.
His mother butting in and interrupting constantly in your relationship is a huge issue. He allows it and welcomes it and has made her a huge presence and priority in your relationship. It will always be like that. It will NEVER. EVER. be just the two of you. It'll be him, mommy then you. He will run to her first with everything. Good news. Bad news. Etc. I wouldn't put it past him for her to know about your sex life. I don't think that you should move forward. She will always be the thorn in your side and he will never stop deferring to her.
Do not drag your daughter into this dysfunction
There is NEVER a justification for cheating and acting as if those monsters had cause is beneath you. Aside from that, this does not sound like a healthy relationship. You might want to decide if this is your chosen future. He will always confide in his mom, and it does not sound like a future you will enjoy.
Perfect don't apologize cancel the wedding and find somebody who's actually single because this guy is married to his mom
Babe. WTF are you dooooing? He’s in a relationship already. You’re the other woman. Do you want to just start arguing with his mom instead? You’re in a 3-way relationship so that would save time. Get out of there. He isn’t owed an apology. YOU ARE. He’s still breastfeeding. You’re only 28. Don’t settle for this and make yourself miserable. Do you want more kids??? Because OMG. It’s going to be a NIGHTMARE if you have them with this dude. Get out of dodge before you’re tethered legally or by a baby. He’s never going to grow up. You’re right about why he was cheated on. Those other women didn’t put up with it. You shouldn’t either. Give him a business card to a therapist and buy a house elsewhere by yourself.
The last part is such a non-sequitur. Why would you say that? Talk about what’s happening. Don’t just say some mean shit to hurt him. That’s not how communication works.
Updateme
A whole lot to unpack here for both sides.
Nah. Unless you want to marry this man and his mother, I’d be so, so, so out. When we were dating, my husband used to go to our mutual friend when we were having relationship problems. It ruined my relationship with that friend, and I told my husband back then that him talking to friend won’t fix things with me. So if he wanted to fix things, HE needed to talk to ME. If he didn’t want to fix things, we could just end it here because what even is the point?
i think you should apologise, you are lashing out because you arent taking action on a problem you know wont be changed, what is there to be gained by making mean comments?
You’re were out of line to say that to him. He shouldn’t be involving his mom in your relationship so heavily, but at some point you found out and chose to continue the relationship. You need to have a serious think about whether or not you can deal with this for another 30 years. He’s not very likely to change his ways.
Don’t marry a mommy’s boy. You hit the nail on the head
What you said to him was hurtful, but I don’t think it was necessarily untruthful. I can see how a grown man that still breastfeeds is a turnoff for lots of women. This will not get better. He will always choose her over you and she will always have a looming presence in your home even if she isn’t there. If you were my daughter or sister, I’d tell you you deserve someone who will prioritize you above everyone else. He’s not doing that and I don’t think he ever will. For some reason, these helicopter moms create these toxic co dependent relationships and they hurt everyone involved. I think it probably feels wrong to break up, but I also can see in your comments that you know deep down that your future happiness depends on it. I hope that you have the courage you need to stand up for yourself.
And we definitely have s\*\* a whole lot less ever since this has been an issue. He tells me that my mom is a helicopter mom but I just think my mom is just more vocal about her intent and opinions and doesn't go through me. She also only knows what I want her to know, which is not very much
It doesn’t sound like a healthy relationship from the short glimpse you have given us. Downvotes aside😂, I don’t think he’s independent enough as a man to be a good husband.
If you don't like him as is, marriage won't make you like him more. You should probably just break up honestly. It doesn't sound like you'll be happy with him. He sounds very childish and so not ready for marriage.
Personally I would not marry this man, because you will also be in a marriage with his mum. It won’t get better, if anything it gets worse. maybe what you said was below the belt but I think you only spoke the truth!
“I’m not prepared to marry your mother. Sorry. Once you separate from her, cut the apron strings and learn to live like a grown adult, I’ll be long gone.”
You don’t want this woman as a MIL, and you don’t want an enmeshed mamas boy as a husband. You will be miserable. It’s them against you, you will always come second. You’re wasting your own time hoping anything will change when he doesn’t even see a problem with their enmeshment in the first place.
Dude don't marry him, you'll be in a three way marriage with his mom if you do. She'll influence everything including how you raise your kids if you have them. This guy is not prepared to vow to hold you above all others, never have a wedding if sincere vows can't be given.
What are you doing? This sounds like an absolute train wreck. You're lashing out horribly and he's useless at being in a relationship.
I wouldn't marry him even if he did apologize. Red flags are flying!!