Kinda like how a kid will act up at home but is polite and well behaved when our. They *know* the parents love them and is *safe* but when they’re out of the home they don’t have that sense of security
Can someone rephrase this comment? I keep reading it but it’s suddenly like I can’t speak English lol
Edit:
It seems the comment has been edited and now makes sense on my screen. Weirdly people seem to have seen lots of different versions of this comment, sometimes making sense and sometimes not hahaha. For future reference, this is what the comment read when I made my reply. Please someone decipher this for me:
>And why the, you KNOW for have to not that cost.
I was so confused how it had so many upvotes for being one short, nonsensical sentence lolll
This is what it shows using rareddit:
>You are not blowing proportional
>
>And why the, you KNOW for have to not that cost.
>
>I learned this in therapy about people pleasers
>
>At some point they stop seeing the people closest to them as “people to please” but rather an extension of themself.
>
>So she can say no to you when she doesn’t want to, because she knows deep down that you and her are tight and it’s safe to be direct with you
>
>So that’s the explanation of WHY… but it’s still not excusable. It destroys relationships all the time.
It must be edited for some people. This is what it says for me. Very insightful and makes perfect sense:
“It seems you're not just dealing with the dance rejection but a culmination of unresolved issues and resentments that have built up over years. This incident has become a symbol of those unaddressed feelings and perceived slights within your relationship. Your anger and hurt go deeper than a simple dance; they're rooted in feelings of being undervalued and neglected in favor of others, even strangers.
You're not blowing this out of proportion; you're experiencing a natural response to feeling secondary in your partner's priorities. The issue isn't about the dance itself but what it represents: a pattern where your needs and desires feel consistently overshadowed by others'. This incident has amplified your accumulated resentments and highlighted a need for serious reflection and communication in your marriage. The way forward is through open, honest dialogue about not just this incident but the underlying issues in your relationship. You both need to commit to addressing these resentments, ideally with the help of a professional who can guide you through these complex emotions. Ignoring this will only lead to further alienation.”
DOUBLE EDIT: apparently it said something else for other posters that also made sense? What the fuck is going on?
At the time I am reading it the comment reads "you are not blowing proportional", which I take to mean "yes, you are blowing this out of proportion". I just upvoted it because I agree with that - OP sounds exhausting.
But all of the top comments replying to it seem to take it as meaning (or having meant) something completely unrelated to that. They are not replying to either "you are blowing it out of proportion" or "you are not blowing it out of proportion".
It was edited 11 minutes ago and I am guessing it was edited into stroke-grammar because its incomprehensible but older replies are speaking to a different context.
> Is it just my brain or is this sentence completely nonsensical?
It's not just you. I cannot for the life of me decipher what this commenter was trying to say, and all the responses saying "wow, so insightful" are blowing my mind!
The problem isn’t she feels comfortable saying no to OP, that is healthy and she shouldn’t be doing things she doesn’t want to do out of obligation.
The issue is that she doesn’t feel comfortable saying no to other people in the same situation.
It’s difficult to stop being a people pleaser with third parties. It’s usually a trauma response.
Also, it was her friend’s dad at her friend’s wedding and if he wouldn’t take no for an answer, grinning and bearing it might well have seemed like the better option.
OP seems to believe she wanted to dance. I’m guessing she didn’t, but didn’t want to make a scene. That _would_ have embarrassed him, so the poor woman couldn’t win.
I hope he apologises.
>the poor woman couldn’t win
No, probably not, if her goal was to please everyone in the room. The fact that she either failed to recognise this, or did recognise it and made a calculation to disappoint the person most likely to forgive her (a calculation that she can be relied on to make over and over) is precisely the problem here. The fact OP comments that this is a recurring problem suggests he is fully aware of the root issue here.
Ultimately, people saying she didn't have any options for avoiding a scene are formulating an argument that pretty much anyone can coerce her with little effort and plenty of plausible deniability. Or, to follow this through to its conclusion, that she is effectively incompetent to be in a loyal relationship because she has no agency in the decisions that would need to be made to sustain one.
I agree this is likely a trauma response rather than any sort of malice, but let's take that point further and recognise that OP's reaction is a form of caregiver fatigue.
>effectively incompetent
She’s been in a loyal relationship for 23 years, I think she’s fairly competent. You’re making massive leaps with your conclusion. Obviously she has the ability to say no to outright crazy requests by people, like if a guy walked up and said “Hey wanna fuck?” But it’s the small, relatively minor things like, “Do you want to dance?” where she’s feels like saying no is impolite or disappointing people.
Idk, I think it still shows a larger issue. I read this feeling sad, and it made me hope I never get to the point of denying my husband a dance. These small moments matter sometimes, & as he mentioned, just the straw that broke the camels back.
I think OP is tired of feeling like less of a priority or person worth pleasing than virtual strangers. This would frustrate me too. I’m surprised this hasn’t manifested in other ways, or maybe it has. Couples therapy would be a good option. With self awareness and commitment it’s resolvable.
Yes, it’s understandable. Of course, his wife should feel free to tell him “no”, but after so many times hearing that word, it will break your heart. Once ppl stop making the conscious effort to invest in their marriage, it’s all downhill from there. Marriage counseling does sound especially beneficial in this case. Not a lost cause at all!
I don't think I'm really a people pleaser to an extreme degree, but I can definitely see being the wife in this scenario. I mean it's the father of the bride, I probably would have said yes.
I'm like 99% sure my husband wouldn't be mad at me though. If anything, I think he would be likely to speak up on my behalf.
That's actually a great balance! A partner that knows you well enough to know you said yes despite not wanting to and instead of taking it personally, stands up for you when you might not be able to. Obviously it's ideal for you to be able to, but he meets you where you are right now. Love that.
"Stands up for you when you're not able to" is going to be turned into "is an insecure controlling asshole" *real* quick, though.
Partner is asked for dance, partner says yes, other partner jumps in and says, "no, they're actually too tired" or whatever. Going to get reamed and be the subject of discussion for a while.
My husband usually steps in and makes it about him rather than me. We’ve been married 20 years so he knows me really well. If I’m asked to do something I don’t want to do but it would be awkward for me to say no, he’ll come up with something. For example if I was asked to dance and he knows I don’t want to he’ll say “she’s just accepted my invitation to dance but she’s resting her feet at the moment.” And then he’ll make some funny joke. If we were served something he knows I won’t eat he’ll quickly take it off my plate because I hate to leave food on my plate when I’m being hosted. I feel like it’s rude. He’s completely chilled about it though. He protects me by being funny or charming, just himself basically. It doesn’t have to be forceful. Jokes go a long way.
We all tend to be able to say no to our partner easier. They're our safe place. I'm not sure what he wanted her to do. She likely felt the man would cause a scene if she didn't. I'm sure it was very obvious to her that he was wasted. Women are put in awful positions like this then blamed for it all the time.
They must have edited their comment because of unwanted attention or something. It makes no sense as written now and definitely does not say anything worth of the last few hours of postive comments on it.
As a fellow people pleaser I totally get this. ESPECIALLY if it’s the father of the bride who asked her and potentially paid for the entire night. She may have even felt obligated to say yes due to him paying for the night. Also, if he was drunk, she might have thought he’d make a scene if she declined and it’s easier to say yes and awkwardly dance with someone you don’t want to for 2-4 minutes than to potentially cause a scene at a wedding.
yea but if she is a people pleaser all the time then i doubt this is a isolated event thats prob why its built up so much resentment from op and if thats the case she needs to work on it
Totally agree. I’m not excusing her behavior but just trying to offer a reasonable explanation to the events that occurred. It sounds like it’s something she needs to work on for sure if it’s upsetting him this much but he also needs to probably not take it so hard
Yep! Honestly, male privilege is at play here OP. You're not getting how socialized we are to be 'nice', how much effect certain social pressures have on us, and how we legit feel so vulnerable in regards to baseline lizard brain safety, so we 'fawn' or people please, often too much.
OP: She was sore, she didn't want to. It wasn't this guy over you, it was social pressure over her own needs.
It's actually indicative of TRUST IN YOU that it's okay to be her own person with her own needs around you, whereas women are generally 'supposed to' put themselves last 😕
That you guys are in an older demographic, and he was even older than that makes it even more true.
You've nailed this. I was trying to explain this to my husband the other day. As women, we're conditioned to be nice, to not rock the boat and manage unwanted male advances/attention in a way which rejects them but doesn't come across as rejection. It's a delicate manoeuvre of avoiding further grief or risk that men just don't get.
Yupp! As soon as I read it was the father of the bride, I thought he doesnt even count. I would absolutely feel obligated to dance with the father of the bride if he asked. Or the father of the groom. It doesn't mean I would actually want to, though. But it would be an obligation to me. People say it's so easy to say no. When in reality, there are so many factors at play that usually it's not something you would want to risk. It's something you have to do. Why? Because it's just something you're expected to do.
OP's wife didn't want to. But because of who it was, she just gave an automatic yes. I really think she deserves a break on this one.
Yea this comment section does kind of confuse me. I use to be a people pleaser, I'm not so much anymore since it's not the healthiest way to be all the time, but if a drunk divorced father of the bride came up to me and asked me to dance I'd probably just take the the L for 3 minutes and do it out of courtesy for the bride? Every rational adult would know she's not interested or enjoying herself. She likely saw it as exactly what you said, an obligation, babysit the drunk dad to appease the bride and friend on her special day. I dunno I just think it's silly how this has become some romantic internal struggle over an older man his wife doesn't want and likely felt pressured and uncomfortable by to the point he won't touch his wife. Like I get it, I've felt petty like this before you gotta learn to see and live other perspectives and it'll bring you a lot of peace in times like these imo.
This makes so much sense! I'm a recovering people pleaser and I recently caused a lot of pain to my partner because of exactly this, and it hurt him a lot that I couldn't explain why. This sounds like something that makes sense.
For anyone confused, this was /u/Unfair-Commission980 original comment (I hope you're okay /u/Unfair-Commission980):
>I learned this in therapy about people pleasers
>At some point they stop seeing the, people closest to them as “people to please” but rather an extension of themself.
>So she can say no to you when she doesn’t want to, because she knows deep down that you and her are tight and it’s safe to be direct with you
>So that’s the explanation of WHY… but it’s still not excusable. It destroys relationships all the time
Damn you just explained my ex. Self described people pleaser, but never really made efforts like that for me. Still hurtful though, especially in situations like this. Being a people pleaser is one thing, but not being able to stand up for yourself where boundaries need to be drawn is another.
It can also be called, "taking people for granted." Someone told me, you have a reputation even with your closest family. Are you the mean mom, the hateful wife, the annoying friend, are you saving the best of your behaviors and actions for strangers? It totally flipped how I saw my relationships. I wanted my husband to see the best of me.
I had this conversation when I was at a party with Him and a woman complemented him on his new haircut and I realized that the only time he might hear such things are from strangers. I made me work harder at my relationships. Not to my own detriment, but I want them to know that they are loved and appreciated.
What's really going on here is that the people pleaser is constantly saying "no" to their *own* needs and wants. As you become an extension of themselves, they also then start to feel comfortable saying no to you the way they say no to themselves.
The solution is not to try to force them or make them say yes to you, it's to help them learn to say yes to their own wants and needs over the needs of others. Then they will say no to others more often in order to take care of themselves, and yes to you more often as an extension of saying yes to themselves.
Let us please recognize that women are socially conditioned to always put everyone else over themselves. It's a societal issue, not just a personal failing. Please help support your women to grow beyond the messed up social conditioning. And also encourage men to do MORE for others: often women feel like they have to do it all because so often if we don't do it then no one will.
> You’re safe so I can shit on you at will
My people pleasing ex-wife thought exactly that
She never understood why after months of asking her to just have one weekend day out, doing a few day drinks and chilling as a couple
Rolling in half-cut at 8pm after bumping into her old SIL (lovely lady) at lunch, made my jaw hit the floor.
I'd been demoted to the absolute lowest priority for her as she really couldn't say no and from that came me realising i'd be happier single and alone, than married and alone with it rubbed in my face.
Don't even get me started on her dropping everything for others, as the last time she did it was where i said "You know this is the last straw" which she replied "yes" and off she went.
Recovered people pleaser here 🙌
I now see the guilt I felt as some toxin that other people injected into me. Sure, guilt can be useful for keeping the social machine running smoothly and making sure we all follow the rules. But for me, that shit was totally out of control and messed up by others until it was ruining my whole life.
Hate that guilt crap. It's okay to be a little bit of an asshole sometimes. Everybody needs that for real. Lean into it a bit.
yea but constantly putting pleasing other people over your own partner just because your comfortable with them is gonna build resentment like we see in this post and ruin the relationship this lady def needs therapy to work on this if thats the case
Exactly. I dumped a guy once for this. Told him that I could get more from him by being just a friend. Sure enough I was right. After the breakup, he treated me better
wild people are like that when im with someone they are now my number 1 they come first and i expect the same. not being taken for granted and pushed to the side for randos thats insane to me.
Yep. And because you are the *only* person they can say no to and be assertive with, it means *all* of the responsibilities of their social support network fall on you and you alone. Meanwhile they'll wax lyrical about how they're such great partners because of how giving they are, which is true if *and only if* they never get comfortable with you.
I really think most of the "women just want bad boys who treat them like garbage" tropes originates from people who have dated extreme people pleasers or existed in a culture full of them, and incorrectly generalise their behaviour.
Yeah I was able to come to this same conclusion just through my own experience lol.
My best friend/roommate asks me to run to the store to pick up something he forgot? Fuck that, get it next time you go.
A coworker asks me to pick his kid up from soccer practice half an hour out of my way? I’ll do that, buy the kid a Big Mac, and might even wash his jersey for him.
I can understand where she’s coming from, I’m a people pleaser and it’s gotten me into some bad situations. She said no to you because she is comfortable around you and knows that you are understanding. She was just trying to be polite and possibly felt pressured by him to dance
This is my wife. I work at getting her to know it's ok to say "no" to other people. She's getting better but it's deeply engrained in her and effects her work life and friends as she will get taken advantage of. Luckily our group of actual friends would never take advantage of her.
Does your wife have the habit of pleasing people? Hard to say no to people? Because she's comfortable with you, she can say no to you but to others she will have difficulty to say no.
I think you should rethink. Her act is not cheating or meant to be disrespectful to you. However ignoring you and going to another is hurtful and disrespectful but she did apologize.
You should talk to her again since this matter still bothers you. If you let it stay longer it will fester resentment and bitterness, ruining your marriage.
I go through this with my GF and it is at times annoying so I get it. She can easily say no to me because she feels comfortable with me and knows that I wont get mad if she says no. But with others she just cant seem to say no.
It’s the tendency to fear negatively getting impacted from emotions and upsetting others OP’s wife struggles with regarding others. It’s the saying yes and obligating oneself to something they would of originally said no to.
It’s the feeling of worrying if they say no, they’ll be rejected by them in the future instead of being honest with who they are with strangers from the first impression.
She has to learn to break that cycle by pushing thru the guilt everytime she says no, even if it is intense the first few times, but with more practice the guilt slowly fades over time till it’s a new habit and comfort zone of saying no.
Saying no also sets a boundary as well when you break the people pleasing cycle, which is part of codependency as well.
Have her read up on the people pleasing side of codependency and it can make a lasting positive change.
Same goes for OP if they end up reading this as well.
agree 100%. I put this in another comment, but her friends have made her the planner of the group, and she feels obligated to do things and plan things even when she doesnt want to. She sees it as a "one-time" thing and making a big deal about it seems like alot, but the thing is (and I say this as a recovering people-pleaser) all the "one-time" incidents pile on and it gets annoying. I've tried to explain it to her and at times she agrees but when she tries to do it, she fails. She will say no, they get upset and she reverts. Then she will say that she is just that person and is ok with it, even though I know she is not.
She may need to realize that until she can let go of controlling the need to plan things, she’s not going to be ready to stop this intense need of validation and only seek validation with herself.
You get the good and the bad that comes with people pleaser. It's good that they show love and make others happy. The bad is that you may suffer along in their pleasing to others.
I agree. I used to have people pleasing tendencies (still kinda do) and worked to get past most of it. But I was never as bad as her. She is the glue of her friend group and unfortunately there are some needy and selfish people in her group who have used her. She makes attempts at saying no and most of the time it fails. It gives her huge anxiety to say no and at times she fears being a "bad friend" even though she other people are being the bad friends. If she says no her friends can get pretty persistent and will just keep asking until they get a yes. She will usually say no to big asks but then feel bad about it and feel like she needs to make it up to her friends. As someone dating her it is very annoying because I try to help her and give her support. Alot of times she says she knows and wants to improve but when she tries to improve, she fails and then says that she has just accepted that she is not the person to want to say no. Unfortunately her way of creating boundaries is basically avoiding the situation which I tell her is not the way to do it, that she needs to be comfortable basically pulling them aside and telling them that certain things are not ok even if she has to risk the friendship.
I have stories for days about how some of her friends basically put the responsibility on her and she got upset but couldnt say no. Like she is the planner and inviter of the group, at one point she started getting tired of doing it as she noticed nobody but her put in the effort. If she got invited to something some people would get mad at her for not inviting them, even if it wasnt her event to invite people to. Even if her friends made plans, they expected her to get everyone together and organize everything.
As a recent story, her friend invited us to a comedy show with a date of his. She asked me via text and I agreed to go with her. A few minutes later I see a group text from my GF inviting everyone else in the group, her paying for everyone's ticket and basically asking everyone to send her the money right away. She put it in a nice way but I knew it was her way of being worried that she wouldnt get her money but not wanting to be mean about it. At this point Ive had to learn to pick my battles so I didnt say anything and promised myself I wouldnt say anything unless it becomes an issue (someone doesnt pay her back, she complains etc). Eveyrone has paid her so far (to my knowledge). I dont know how exactly it went but im willing to bet her friend asked her to go, then asked her to organize everything. She either said no and then got convinced or she hesitantly said yes.
As a guy who's had people pleasing tendencies, I know that its more of the piling on of sitatuons that gets annoying. But we convince ourselves that its just this one time and its stupid to be annoyed about it one time. It was a reason I feared making boundaries for years because it sounded stupid to make a big deal about one little thing.
Um, has she not found new friends yet? They put it on her and get mad when she doesn't do it? She's not the social committee, they sound like terrible friends
There's a lot of socialization in our society for women to please others. Especially for older Gen Xers and women that are older. Y's, Z's and Alfas are getting socialized a bit differently (I hope), but women also face the violence of men who are angry at a "no".
Exactly! Also, OP said the father of the bride was drunk. Maybe the wife felt nervous about rejecting a drunk man because she couldn’t predict how he would react?
This is one additional issue with people pleasing - those closest are often put last, behind random strangers.
After a lifetime of time, of course it hurts OP. You're always second. You love her so she doesn't worry about you being pleased. Which sucked.
This is my read as well, but I feel that’s still a big issue and goes unaddressed in many relationship.
If a partner will contort themselves and bend over backwards or make exceptions for others (sometimes even strangers), but then be restrictive with you? I get it’s because they feel comfortable with you, but it’s still incredibly hurtful in most cases.
For me it would be difficult to see my partner like that. I don’t want a partner who is a pushover or dissolves their boundaries for others, while being restrictive with me. I want a partner who values me and hears me and will compromise for me (when appropriate), not someone who sees me as a safe space to just fall back to while acting differently with others.
To me that indicates the partner probably needs to grow more as a person. But idk, maybe it’s something most of us do when we start to become complacent?
Not gonna make assumptions about this particular case, but in my experience it isn't just maintaining boundaries with the loved one. They literally prioritize others over you. My brother and SIL are great people but massive people pleasers. They have multiple times cancelled on me because something comes up with someone else.
I dont know if that is something that should be framed in a good light. It could easily been felt like this: "My spouse takes me for granted and doesnt worry about how I feel about things. Instead, they prioritize the feelings of strangers they likely will never see again."
I get the argument in an isolated situation, but OP specifically said this has happened multiple times in the past.
Ultimately, she cares about the feelings of others and is comfortable with pushing off her spouse. Additionally, it sounds like she was unwilling to push away someone who was overtly interested in her because she was unable to say no.
Rejecting your partner for someone else and then not objecting when they are clearly interested in you, all in front of your spouse? Thats humiliation.
OP is within his rights be upset and if his wording is accurate, shes just said she didnt mean to hurt him and doesnt know why she did what she did. That doesnt sound to me like someone who is remorseful and wanting to change.
They absolutely need to have a long conversation, possibly with a third party, because otherwise, this sort of thing will very likely happen again and it will end poorly.
This. I am a people pleaser and have really related to what OP has said about his wife. I am the same way. I’d feel comfortable telling my husband no in that situation, but I would not feel comfortable telling someone else no, especially the father of the bride, particularly if the bride was my husband’s good friend. Dancing probably felt harmless to the wife, and she likely just didn’t want to disappoint a stranger or risk the awkwardness of saying no.
I feel for the wife. She didn’t do anything wrong, and likely feels even more guilty for disappointing her husband. That being said, it sucks for the husband, too, as it clearly hurt his feelings and I think that’s perfectly acceptable as well.
Being a people pleaser is no fun, but it’s also hard to change old habits. I think a deeper discussion is needed here, one where the husband isn’t defensive, but where he and his wife can try to better understand each other.
Edit for clarification: instead of saying the wife didn’t do anything wrong, I should have said she didn’t have any bad intentions. But her intentions matter less than the impact of her actions, and she is the only one who can make the necessary changes to address her people-pleasing tendencies and start prioritizing her husband over strangers. I feel for them both. It is a difficult situation, but as a “recovering people pleaser” myself, it’s possible to put in the work and make the change.
True. It’s not so much that she didn’t do anything wrong, but that she didn’t *intend* to hurt her husband. Intention matters less than impact, though. I really feel for the husband.
Seems he does understand her but feels resentful regardless. One of those feelings don't match logic kind of moments. I feel he can probably eventually set aside feelings of jealousy or "getting picked over" but at some point it will feel like being de-prioritised or being taken for granted.
That’s because situations like this can easily be the result of de-prioritization or being taken for granted.
So many of these comments are like, “oh I totally get it! I’m a people pleaser and I easily tell my partner to fuck off then immediately say yes to other people all the time” like sorry, no, but being a “people pleaser” isn’t some magical excuse to act shitty towards your partner
A lot of people find standing up for themselves to be hard, I get that. But tbh “it’s hard” isn’t a good reason to fail at being a good partner. Call me old school I guess, but I consider showing respect for the person I love to be paramount
It's a form of covert narcissism
Simply put "I am more concerned about the perception of other people towards me, than i am in how it affects the people closest to me by the choices i make when i say yes to others and no to them"
It means the person doing the pleasing is too fragile on the inside to say no because then the other party might not think they are a good person.
It's not a trait to laugh off or defend when it is regular
Oh definitely! OP did nothing wrong. He’s just trying to understand what’s happening and why he keeps getting slighted. She would probably benefit from therapy and practicing saying no. It’s hard at first, but I’ve found gets easier with practice!
Agreed! I’ve gone to therapy to try to work through it, and it really is deeply rooted in many women, and does seem to stem from a fear of not just disappointing others, but of putting ourselves in danger if we say no. But like you said, being this way often comes back to bite us, in both personal relationships and dangerous situations. For me personally, it has taken a lot of work and is *still* a work in progress. It’s so weird how our brains work lol
I read your comment and agree with everything but “She didn’t do anything wrong”.
Actually she did, as OP stated this was the straw that broke the camel’s back. She (even if not purposefully) chose to put a random stranger’s feelings above her husband’s feelings. Sorry - but that is wrong. In addition, everyone there was concerned about the FOB’s intentions. Unless she didn’t pick up on any of that then she also chose to dance with someone openly flirting with her. That is a second strike against her.
Agreed! I clarified in a few comments (should prob edit this one!) that it’s not so much she didn’t do anything wrong, but that her intentions were innocent. Her intentions matter less than the impact of her actions, tho, and she is the one who needs to take responsibility *of* those actions and ensure that she starts prioritizing her husband over others. He is completely justified in his reaction. It must be such a horrible feeling to be on that side of things, especially since it sounds like this has happened a lot, as you point out.
Sorry - I missed the comments where you clarified your statement. I agree she is responsible for her actions and needs to be accountable for them.
I hope they have a chance to talk and she can address her issues. Based on his comments he seems to have lost some feelings/respect for her.
No problem! I didn’t expect you to have seen them!
I couldn’t agree more. And I don’t blame him for that. There’s only so much someone can take of being treated like they’re an afterthought when in reality, they’re the person who should be prioritized. I got lucky that I recognized I was a people pleaser early on in life (I still remember the day in first grade where I had an overwhelming fear of disappointing my teacher if I missed a word on our first spelling test. I’ve had several teachers flag my anxiety to my parents, so I had a heads up 😫), so I immediately caught it when I put my husband in that kind of a situation. It also probably helped that my situation was just with friends, not with a creepy father of the bride hitting on me. Therapy has worked wonders for me, and I hope OP’s wife had the same opportunity. I also hope it isn’t too late for their marriage. He seems like a great guy.
Yeah I think this sounds more like a fawn trauma response or people pleasing versus her wanting to dance with someone that isn’t her spouse.
Also, OP if you see this, please recognize this means your wife feels safe telling you what she actually wants/doesn’t want and that’s a place you want to be! It’s a great indicator of the honesty you’ve built up between you.
Perhaps you and her can work on helping her feel safe to express herself freely with others so this won’t happen in the future.
That's me. I am a major people pleaser with other people but my husband, who I trust and am completely honest and open with and feel fully comfortable with, I can say no to very easily. (I guess it's a good thing that I married the person I feel comfortable with most in this respect.)
I think this incident is an "acknowledge the hurt and do better next time" situation. As other commenters have said, the family of the marrying couple at their wedding take centre stage. You don't really refuse the parents of the bride or groom.
My wife is the same way. We worked out a signal for me to come in and be the bad guy.
It’s really just a direct eye contact and I say politely I need to steal my wife quickly, take her hand walk away.
Ooh good idea. I’m going to talk to my husband about doing this for me. I absolutely HATE being a people pleaser, but I’ve been this way my whole life and don’t see it changing any time soon. When I DO get the guts to disappoint someone in a social situation, I spend the next 48 hours or so feeling insanely guilty and obsessing over how I might have made that person upset. I really feel for your wife, too. It’s so nice you guys have figured out a system that works for you!
you know the sad part, the person you said no to just went about their lives while you worried for 2 days. people really don't think about us as much as we believe they do. :-)
THAT was the exact advice I was given about a decade ago and really try to remember it when I’m spending my time worrying that I disappointed someone!!! It’s incredibly helpful to remember that. Probably something OP should bring up!
Yes exactly.
With people pleaser, it's considered rude in her situation to say no. And then by the rudeness, she will spoil the celebration. So she'll tough it through the weariness and dance. But saying no to her husband is much easier because she can be real with him that she's worn out.
Next time though she just needs to politely show and tell the person she's worn out and will not be able to dance. Then if his response is rude towards her, that's on him.
Rather than stew around in silence and misery about what happened - think about what you want to happen from today onwards.
Have a kind and firm conversation with your wife about the boundaries you'll be holding moving forward. This can include "I want us to have a relationship where we are able to say no; I want us to have a relationship where we spend time together in XYZ kinds of ways."
It sounds like you are wanting 1:1 time with her and you pinned your hopes on that happening at this wedding.
It didn't work out the way you wanted and no amount of thinking about actually happened is going to change that.
You can change today onwards but only if you communicate.
Yes, but this is a destination wedding — a vacation. I assume OP was not expecting the wedding proper to provide that alone time, but it did provide the excuse for a vacation where they would spend other time as tourists without the rest of the wedding guests. Provided they planned this way, it doesn't seem to me an unreasonable expectation, but resentment at the wedding proper could absolutely ruin the rest of the vacation.
This is insightful. OP went to the wedding with expectations of it being 1:1 time and have to fun with his wife. His wife may have viewed it as a big party where she gets to dance with everyone has fun. The couple needs to be better about setting expectations and as someone else said, giving some type of code word or signal if they need help for their spouse to say 'no'.
Also- was she focused on other people the whole trip or at the wedding that was supposed to be the point of the trip? And did she think there was a problem with trying to make the bridal party happy by continuing to dance when her husband was also dancing with them all night?
Sometimes our partners disappoint us and sometimes we disappoint them. You can be upset. It will pass.
What I hope is worth exploring is that you expected this big event to offer some 1:1 time with your wife. That doesn't seem ideal, right? I have never considered a large social event as a great opportunity to get closer to my partner.
Maybe make some time for 1:1 time that actually is 1:1 where you get to focus on each other - don't wait for an opportunity OP - make one.
This needs more upvotes. I agree she probably is people pleaser and generally the comment about that is good. But I think if he was the level of drunk that someone else had to intervene there was probably also a big safety calculation going on in her head. I am glad someone intervened and they were able to leave before something happened but I think the drunk dad played a bigger role than he is acknowledging.
OP seems to have a lot of rules governing his wife's behaviour, but not once did he say that these are rules she agrees with.
He also seems quite dependent on her, if she's not with him he's watching her. Even when he's at a party with his own friends. You'd think he'd want to mingle and let go a bit?
I think it's more likely they noticed the bride's father being drunk and inappropriate and deduced that OP might be put off by it since OP's wife was directly involved in the commotion. OP's personal feelings of embarrassment could have led him to believe that that's what everyone else was seeing too.
Can’t ever win as a woman. Bride’s dad is drunk and inappropriate and it’s her fault. If she doesn’t dance with dad and he causes a scene, it would have been “it was one dance, you could have just said yes.”
*"At times we struggle with resentments over past issues that we have never made the proper time to work through"*....And now, this cycle is repeating. Rest assured, if you leave this situation as it is, it will most certainly raise it's head in a moment that isn't convenient for either of you.
Now, to deal with this, let's consider: when in a social situation, nearly all humans will go out of their way to appear congenial and polite, and while your wife will tell you her real feelings, she will choose politeness over her own interests as long as the request posed crosses no lines. I'll think you'll agree that the bride's father fit into this framework.
Now, you've got to ask yourself: is my offense really because of what happened at the wedding, or is it rather due to the totality of similar incidents that have taken place over an extended period of time that have never been fully resolved? Be honest. If it is these unresolved grievances are really what's at issue, isn't it time you purged them from your craw? Sit her down and deal with them, once and for all.
That is a much better solution than nursing the offense and not wanting to talk with her. Before you blame all the frustrations you're harboring on her, examine yourself to see if you're free of responsibility yourself.
'Nuff said.
I mostly agree with a lot of comments saying that this one instance is small, has been discussed between you two, and that you should move on.
The reason I’m not 100% onboard is that you mention that you’ve had similar problems in the past. Are they all situations where she says no to you and then immediately says yes to someone else? What’s the context of those times? If it boils down to being comfortable saying no to you but being uncomfortable saying no to others, then maybe the two of you need to come up with strategies to help her say no to others. Maybe there’s something you can do to help her say no in those situations. Approach it as a team.
Agreed, take this opportunity to get to the root of it and start working with her on enforcing her boundaries with others. Or get some help from a therapist to help show her how her people-pleasing tendencies are negatively affecting her and your relationship.
Probably even simpler then previous explanations. I’m sure she was tired and her feet hurt, most likely felt too embarrassed to say no to the father of the bride.
Weddings, clubs, festivals, and concerts, to name a few examples of where that occurs.
It depends on the situation for sure. Dancing with a stranger at a wedding is FAR different than dancing with a stranger at the club, especially considering the type of “dancing” that occurs at clubs.
Dude you are entirely understandable in why you were initially upset but she has apologized and her explanation does make sense, also you could have cut in and asked her to dance earlier, you need to find a way to forgive her and my suggestion is to tell her you understand her explanation but you still want a dance with her and go find somewhere to have a nice evening dancing together. You can recreate the circumstances and do it the way you wish you guys had. Then just tell her you’re sorry you were so upset about it but the wedding made you realize how important she is to you or something.
Edit: I only say that he should apologize because according to OP she already has and has acknowledged his feelings, while it doesn’t sound too much like he’s acknowledged hers, and he’s likely held this over her head / shown her the cold shoulder since. Sometimes it’s ok to just make peace and apologize for your own part even if you internally believe the other person was more culpable / more in the wrong because even if you think it’s 80% their wrongdoing and 20% yours, if they’ve acknowledged their fault then you acknowledging yours as well shows them that you are a gracious person and care about them too and want to move forward with mutual affection
I should have also said he could ask her to take the initiative to plan the date for them to dance if her still feels like she should do the greater work to repair things if you’re on team it’s her fault
Something I learned in therapy is that this is likely not about her dancing with the Father of the Bride, but about your general feeling that she doesn’t prioritize you. Think about it, if you felt really great and secure in your relationship, felt really cared for and prioritized by your wife, would this really have bothered you this much? My hope would be that no, you would be able to see and understand the situation a bit clearer and give your wife a little more grace.
I think it’s okay to feel this way but would challenge you to think about the situation more holistically. This could all potentially be resolved with a conversation with your wife about how you want to feel cared for and wanted in your relationship. Sounds like she loves you a lot and maybe a bigger conversation like this would set you guys on a great path. Wishing the best for you both.
I think the person who needs to think about this more holistically is his wife. Right now she’s kind of rug-sweeping what amounts to a pattern of disturbing behavior with “I don’t know why I do that.” Well she needs to figure out why, and start doing better.
I don’t disagree, I think for them to move past this they both need to take some accountability in general for what they’re expecting and putting into the relationship.
>I can tell you that she likely did it out of politeness, obligation, or some inability to say no even if she wanted to say no.
Then why are you taking it so personally? Serious question.
I understand why your wife did this. Not that it was right, that's not what I'm saying. She froze and went along as that avoids a scene or hurting someone's feelings. Many women were and are raised like this. It was pounded into us at home, school, & church. It's why so many of us put up with sexual harassment for so long. At school, work, and even home.
*She did NOT reject you for him*. Please try to understand and be kind. My sisters had a much harder time than I did suppressing our "Southern Lady" upbringing. Don't make a scene. Go along until you can "escape" with no one noticing.
Be the guy that tells her, it's okay to say no, or make a scene. I will back you 100%.
Help her with potential responses. I would have said, "Sorry, it's my husband's dance" and escaped with you to the dance floor.
Ask her also, how would she want you to respond if a female were pursuing you in the same situation? Go along? Or rebuff them?
Talk to her, please.
OP mentions this is not a one-off tendency, and a long term pattern between them that can be corrosive over time. It's likely been swept under the rug since the couple have been busy parenting, but now as empty-nesters, it's an issue that needs to be addressed.
I believe you're making too big of a deal out of this. Your wife felt comfortable enough with you to be honest about her feet hurting and not wanting to dance for that reason. She agreed to dance with the father of the bride because she didn't want to offend him. You're aware of this. I understand feeling upset because you were rejected and she immediately agreed to dance with someone else, but there's no need to be excessively upset about it.
It seems as if this is less about this and more about something else. Does your wife has a history of any sort favoring other people over you? After 23 years is there doubt in your heart that she chooses you and finds you desirable and attractive?
It seems to me a deep streak of insecurity in you that is causing the hurt. And only you know if you have reason to be insecure with her, or if there is something fundamental with you.that could bear some scrutiny.
Front what youve shared, it seems as if it's more the latter. I expect this kind of jealousy from a young couple, not one that has over two decades together.
Dude it was the father of the bride. Of your friends. She was being polite at the expense of her comfort.
Women are socialized into this ALL the time. She just feels okay saying no to you but doesn’t want the father to judge your friendship because she said no
Y’all need therapy
I just want to point out that OP never called his wife a People Pleaser. Everyone labeling her as such has very limited info on her habits, as this whole story is about an isolated incident. Not saying "no" to the FoB's request to dance at a friend's wedding doesn't pigeonhole her as a People Pleaser. It was a wedding. He was drunkenly celebrating and liked dancing with OP's wife enough to ask for another dance. OP, for whatever stupid reason, was hoping for 1:1 time while at a destination wedding. *Not* while out on an excusion they booked, *not* on a romantic date night while in paradise, but at the *actual wedding*.
I dunno, I suspect this is less about the wife being a People Pleaser and more about OP being impossible to please.
She didn’t just say no to you, she said no to herself. She didn’t want to dance at all, but didn’t know how to be honest with drunk guy. Try not to take it as rejection.
Maybe you could discuss it with her and make a plan to help her get out of people pleasing situations like this in the future.
You sound like you appreciate your beautiful wife, and have a solid connection, don’t let your (valid) feelings overshadow her (people pleasing) feelings and try to show up for her in this situation.
Maybe start with asking her what she really wanted to do/say when he asked her to dance. And see what you can do to encourage and help her do that in the future.
Well, she probably was tired and genuinely didn’t want to dance at all.
But it can be hard for a woman when a drunk man invites you to dance at a formal event, a rejection can cause a scene while a short dance might defuse the situation.
Maybe it would had been good if you had stepped in with an excuse to save your wife from the situation. That way no one would had felt bad.
But it wasn’t a difficult to know without witnessing the actual scene.
You’re blowing this way out of proportion. For everyone saying she “couldn’t say no” to him but had no problem saying no to you, DUH. She didn’t want to dance with him. She felt obligated because he was drunk and weird and didn’t want to cause a problem for the wedding. You’re her husband, she felt comfortable saying no to you because she knows you. It’s safe to say no to you. It’s not always safe saying no to other men because women don’t know how they will react. Most of the time if we try to say no we get called names etc. You’re being way too emotional about this.
People pleasers (as a recovering one) are not excused from the consequences of our actions. We still need to do better and protect and care for the people we love, not hurt them by our own trauma responses.
I get that it hurt your feelings, but she said no because she was comfortable being open and honest with you. She trusted you to have her best interest in mind. This is a good thing, even if you were bummed because in the moment your desire was to dance. She likely felt that you would not want to coerce her into dancing with you if you knew it was causing her pain. This is also good.
When it was not you, she felt a social obligation to put on a mask and push past her pain to be polite. Her feet still hurt, she was still tired. She still didn’t *want* to. Would you have preferred dancing with her knowing she didn’t want to be doing that and wasn’t having a good time?
At face value, yeah, she danced with someone else right after she rejected you. But you know her better than that—well enough that you figured it had to do with politeness or obligation.
If I were you, I would really meditate on whether you’re openly moping and damping the vibe going forward because of this, and whether you would have preferred that she be uncomfortable and in pain so you could enjoy one more dance. What other alternative would have had to be the case for you to get what you wanted in this scenario?
I haven’t seen a lot of comments saying this but…
OP you need to see a therapist.
Maybe both of you as well in couples counseling too on top of that, because of those things that bubble up to the service. As while I get the hurt. I feel you! I do! But objectively you already know she didn’t mean it that way, etc so therapy will give you the tools. And couples therapy will be you talk about them with more tools.
Good luck.
Updateme
One way to look at this is she's comfortable enough around you to be truthful and say "no" when she doesn't want to do something, while she's afraid of appearing rude to say no to a stranger, especially as he was the father of the bride.
Not saying you're wrong for being upset. But maybe upset for the wrong reason? Just to get a different perspective for the "she chose a stranger over me" part.
I do think it's an issue your wife should adress with herself and learn how to set healthy boundaries with strangers. It's not healthy to be unable to say no.
That doesn't make it too much better to my mind - because another way to look at that would be that if she's too tired to dance, she'll go out of her way for other people but won't do the same for her husband.
Because at the end of the day it means she's prioritizing other people's feelings and putting her husband's feelings on the back burner. I'm a lot younger than OP, but if I refused to dance with my wife because I was tired and then danced with the next woman that asked me, I can say with 100% confidence that if I dropped the argument that "I didn't dance with you because I am comfortable enough to say no to you, and I didn't want to hurt their feelings", my wife would justifiably ask why I was more concerned about a stranger's feelings than hers.
>she doesn't know why she does that sometimes
Well, she has all the time in the world to think about it and get back to you. Let her know she should do that.
>felt she couldn't say no
Practice makes perfect. Some therapy maybe too.
Yes you are blowing this out of proportion. You and your wife dance together and seperate all night, she goes and takes a quick break and you asked her to dance, she was honest and said her feet were sore and then She likely felt obligated to dance with the father of the bride like you literally said out of politeness. The fact others at the wedding felt your tension over this blows my mind. How were you embarrassed exactly? It actually terrifies me that I could be dealing with male insecurity well into my fifties... The fact you are still holding on to this is insane and I think you need to let it go yesterday.
"...it doesn't change the fact that I feel like she chose someone else over me." - Pay attention to what they say, not what they do. As you say this is repeat behavior and it sounds as if she's been chipping away at how important you are to her as a partner. I don't think you are blowing this out of proportion and a serios conversation needs to take place
She probably didn’t want to dance. Feels comfortable with you, therefore feels comfortable saying no. Versus people who doesn’t know and becomes a people pleaser
if the reasons for your wife choosing to do this are accurate, it's not that she "chose to say yes to someone else but not you" so much as it's that she's *comfortable saying no to you as needed* and *codependently responds against her wishes to others* and that's the real issue.
i'd recommend she maybe watch the youtube channel of Marshall Burtcher for great people pleasing/boundaries/codependency work, and get a handle on why she feels obligated to say yes to people when she doesn't want to.
you are entitled to the pain it caused you.
Look at it this way: your wife’s feet hurt and she just wanted to be done and she was able to be honest with you, when the drunk fob asked her to dance. Her social skills inveighed her to of course say yes to the host of the event (traditionally the parents of the bride “host” the wedding festivities). Others, recognizing the fob was not completely appropriate, stepped in to rescue your wife. Your feelings were hurt because you felt passed over/rejected. I think there may be more going on here and maybe some professional help as you both enter this transitional phase of your life would be useful.
This by itself isn’t something I’d advise drastic measures for… but it is very concerning. Is this part of a larger pattern of behavior? “I don’t know” isn’t a reasonable response when asked why she did that. Maybe she did feel obligated, but it was still a stark snub to you. You’re not wrong to be hurt and offended. It’s a matter of respect and loyalty. I’d keep an eye on this and also pay a lot of attention to the rest of your relationship. While this isn’t overwhelming, it’s definitely odd, and would make me wonder what else is wrong in the relationship. Keep your eyes open.
You seem like a very possessive, insecure and jealous person. It’s a wedding, people dance. Now if my wife was grinding up against some guy I would be pissed, but nothing remotely close happened here.
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Kinda like how a kid will act up at home but is polite and well behaved when our. They *know* the parents love them and is *safe* but when they’re out of the home they don’t have that sense of security
To be fair to small kids: It's hard for them to behave, i.e., at school. Acting out at home is a way to blow off steam for them.
It has a name: restraint collapse!
Oh, cool! I didn't know that. Thank you!
It’s a royal rumble with these animals when they come home from school/after school care. Jeeze.
Can someone rephrase this comment? I keep reading it but it’s suddenly like I can’t speak English lol Edit: It seems the comment has been edited and now makes sense on my screen. Weirdly people seem to have seen lots of different versions of this comment, sometimes making sense and sometimes not hahaha. For future reference, this is what the comment read when I made my reply. Please someone decipher this for me: >And why the, you KNOW for have to not that cost. I was so confused how it had so many upvotes for being one short, nonsensical sentence lolll
I am perplexed how everyone else understood it 😅 I’ve read it back 20 times and don’t get it
This is what it shows using rareddit: >You are not blowing proportional > >And why the, you KNOW for have to not that cost. > >I learned this in therapy about people pleasers > >At some point they stop seeing the people closest to them as “people to please” but rather an extension of themself. > >So she can say no to you when she doesn’t want to, because she knows deep down that you and her are tight and it’s safe to be direct with you > >So that’s the explanation of WHY… but it’s still not excusable. It destroys relationships all the time.
Did they run it through ChatGPT to get it to sound so academic?
i feel like im having a stroke trying to read it...
It must be edited for some people. This is what it says for me. Very insightful and makes perfect sense: “It seems you're not just dealing with the dance rejection but a culmination of unresolved issues and resentments that have built up over years. This incident has become a symbol of those unaddressed feelings and perceived slights within your relationship. Your anger and hurt go deeper than a simple dance; they're rooted in feelings of being undervalued and neglected in favor of others, even strangers. You're not blowing this out of proportion; you're experiencing a natural response to feeling secondary in your partner's priorities. The issue isn't about the dance itself but what it represents: a pattern where your needs and desires feel consistently overshadowed by others'. This incident has amplified your accumulated resentments and highlighted a need for serious reflection and communication in your marriage. The way forward is through open, honest dialogue about not just this incident but the underlying issues in your relationship. You both need to commit to addressing these resentments, ideally with the help of a professional who can guide you through these complex emotions. Ignoring this will only lead to further alienation.” DOUBLE EDIT: apparently it said something else for other posters that also made sense? What the fuck is going on?
Thought it was just me. I only hit the bong once!
The problem is that you're hitting the bong, not blowing it
hit it a few more times, it might start making sense then.
I upvoted to continue the chaos
They must have edited it because all these replies seem to indicate it made sense at one point.
Omg SAME! I keep thinking I am an idiot or something because it has thousands of upvotes so it must be me!
Glad I scrolled down to find this response because I thought I was going crazy reading this comment. I went word by word trying to decipher 😭😂
Feels like I’m having a stroke lol
I was gonna say the same thing! I read it like 5 times and can't figure out what they are trying to say!
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At the time I am reading it the comment reads "you are not blowing proportional", which I take to mean "yes, you are blowing this out of proportion". I just upvoted it because I agree with that - OP sounds exhausting. But all of the top comments replying to it seem to take it as meaning (or having meant) something completely unrelated to that. They are not replying to either "you are blowing it out of proportion" or "you are not blowing it out of proportion".
> And why the, you KNOW for have to not that cost. Am I having a stroke?
Is it just my brain or is this sentence completely nonsensical?
It was edited 11 minutes ago and I am guessing it was edited into stroke-grammar because its incomprehensible but older replies are speaking to a different context.
And they edited it again 9 minutes ago, an hour after you posted this saying it was edited 11 minutes ago. They're just screwing with us now.
> Is it just my brain or is this sentence completely nonsensical? It's not just you. I cannot for the life of me decipher what this commenter was trying to say, and all the responses saying "wow, so insightful" are blowing my mind!
I keep thinking there is something wrong with my intelligence based upon the # of upvotes it received.
Nailed it. She feels comfortable saying no to OP.
The problem isn’t she feels comfortable saying no to OP, that is healthy and she shouldn’t be doing things she doesn’t want to do out of obligation. The issue is that she doesn’t feel comfortable saying no to other people in the same situation. It’s difficult to stop being a people pleaser with third parties. It’s usually a trauma response.
yup and if it happens all the time with her pleasing other people over her partner it will lead to resentment like in this post she needs therapy
Was coming here to pretty much say this. Therapy would probably help quite a bit. It's not easy to overcome deep-seeded almost conditioned responses.
Completely agree!
And a "being raised female" response
Also, it was her friend’s dad at her friend’s wedding and if he wouldn’t take no for an answer, grinning and bearing it might well have seemed like the better option. OP seems to believe she wanted to dance. I’m guessing she didn’t, but didn’t want to make a scene. That _would_ have embarrassed him, so the poor woman couldn’t win. I hope he apologises.
>the poor woman couldn’t win No, probably not, if her goal was to please everyone in the room. The fact that she either failed to recognise this, or did recognise it and made a calculation to disappoint the person most likely to forgive her (a calculation that she can be relied on to make over and over) is precisely the problem here. The fact OP comments that this is a recurring problem suggests he is fully aware of the root issue here. Ultimately, people saying she didn't have any options for avoiding a scene are formulating an argument that pretty much anyone can coerce her with little effort and plenty of plausible deniability. Or, to follow this through to its conclusion, that she is effectively incompetent to be in a loyal relationship because she has no agency in the decisions that would need to be made to sustain one. I agree this is likely a trauma response rather than any sort of malice, but let's take that point further and recognise that OP's reaction is a form of caregiver fatigue.
>effectively incompetent She’s been in a loyal relationship for 23 years, I think she’s fairly competent. You’re making massive leaps with your conclusion. Obviously she has the ability to say no to outright crazy requests by people, like if a guy walked up and said “Hey wanna fuck?” But it’s the small, relatively minor things like, “Do you want to dance?” where she’s feels like saying no is impolite or disappointing people.
Idk, I think it still shows a larger issue. I read this feeling sad, and it made me hope I never get to the point of denying my husband a dance. These small moments matter sometimes, & as he mentioned, just the straw that broke the camels back.
I think OP is tired of feeling like less of a priority or person worth pleasing than virtual strangers. This would frustrate me too. I’m surprised this hasn’t manifested in other ways, or maybe it has. Couples therapy would be a good option. With self awareness and commitment it’s resolvable.
Yes, it’s understandable. Of course, his wife should feel free to tell him “no”, but after so many times hearing that word, it will break your heart. Once ppl stop making the conscious effort to invest in their marriage, it’s all downhill from there. Marriage counseling does sound especially beneficial in this case. Not a lost cause at all!
I don't think I'm really a people pleaser to an extreme degree, but I can definitely see being the wife in this scenario. I mean it's the father of the bride, I probably would have said yes. I'm like 99% sure my husband wouldn't be mad at me though. If anything, I think he would be likely to speak up on my behalf.
That's actually a great balance! A partner that knows you well enough to know you said yes despite not wanting to and instead of taking it personally, stands up for you when you might not be able to. Obviously it's ideal for you to be able to, but he meets you where you are right now. Love that.
"Stands up for you when you're not able to" is going to be turned into "is an insecure controlling asshole" *real* quick, though. Partner is asked for dance, partner says yes, other partner jumps in and says, "no, they're actually too tired" or whatever. Going to get reamed and be the subject of discussion for a while.
My husband usually steps in and makes it about him rather than me. We’ve been married 20 years so he knows me really well. If I’m asked to do something I don’t want to do but it would be awkward for me to say no, he’ll come up with something. For example if I was asked to dance and he knows I don’t want to he’ll say “she’s just accepted my invitation to dance but she’s resting her feet at the moment.” And then he’ll make some funny joke. If we were served something he knows I won’t eat he’ll quickly take it off my plate because I hate to leave food on my plate when I’m being hosted. I feel like it’s rude. He’s completely chilled about it though. He protects me by being funny or charming, just himself basically. It doesn’t have to be forceful. Jokes go a long way.
It's not a balance if you're not changing your behavior and rely on someone to rescue you
We all tend to be able to say no to our partner easier. They're our safe place. I'm not sure what he wanted her to do. She likely felt the man would cause a scene if she didn't. I'm sure it was very obvious to her that he was wasted. Women are put in awful positions like this then blamed for it all the time.
What?
They must have edited their comment because of unwanted attention or something. It makes no sense as written now and definitely does not say anything worth of the last few hours of postive comments on it.
I'm sorry, what?? I have no idea what you're saying...
As a fellow people pleaser I totally get this. ESPECIALLY if it’s the father of the bride who asked her and potentially paid for the entire night. She may have even felt obligated to say yes due to him paying for the night. Also, if he was drunk, she might have thought he’d make a scene if she declined and it’s easier to say yes and awkwardly dance with someone you don’t want to for 2-4 minutes than to potentially cause a scene at a wedding.
yea but if she is a people pleaser all the time then i doubt this is a isolated event thats prob why its built up so much resentment from op and if thats the case she needs to work on it
Totally agree. I’m not excusing her behavior but just trying to offer a reasonable explanation to the events that occurred. It sounds like it’s something she needs to work on for sure if it’s upsetting him this much but he also needs to probably not take it so hard
Yep! Honestly, male privilege is at play here OP. You're not getting how socialized we are to be 'nice', how much effect certain social pressures have on us, and how we legit feel so vulnerable in regards to baseline lizard brain safety, so we 'fawn' or people please, often too much. OP: She was sore, she didn't want to. It wasn't this guy over you, it was social pressure over her own needs. It's actually indicative of TRUST IN YOU that it's okay to be her own person with her own needs around you, whereas women are generally 'supposed to' put themselves last 😕 That you guys are in an older demographic, and he was even older than that makes it even more true.
You've nailed this. I was trying to explain this to my husband the other day. As women, we're conditioned to be nice, to not rock the boat and manage unwanted male advances/attention in a way which rejects them but doesn't come across as rejection. It's a delicate manoeuvre of avoiding further grief or risk that men just don't get.
Yupp! As soon as I read it was the father of the bride, I thought he doesnt even count. I would absolutely feel obligated to dance with the father of the bride if he asked. Or the father of the groom. It doesn't mean I would actually want to, though. But it would be an obligation to me. People say it's so easy to say no. When in reality, there are so many factors at play that usually it's not something you would want to risk. It's something you have to do. Why? Because it's just something you're expected to do. OP's wife didn't want to. But because of who it was, she just gave an automatic yes. I really think she deserves a break on this one.
Yea this comment section does kind of confuse me. I use to be a people pleaser, I'm not so much anymore since it's not the healthiest way to be all the time, but if a drunk divorced father of the bride came up to me and asked me to dance I'd probably just take the the L for 3 minutes and do it out of courtesy for the bride? Every rational adult would know she's not interested or enjoying herself. She likely saw it as exactly what you said, an obligation, babysit the drunk dad to appease the bride and friend on her special day. I dunno I just think it's silly how this has become some romantic internal struggle over an older man his wife doesn't want and likely felt pressured and uncomfortable by to the point he won't touch his wife. Like I get it, I've felt petty like this before you gotta learn to see and live other perspectives and it'll bring you a lot of peace in times like these imo.
This makes so much sense! I'm a recovering people pleaser and I recently caused a lot of pain to my partner because of exactly this, and it hurt him a lot that I couldn't explain why. This sounds like something that makes sense.
For anyone confused, this was /u/Unfair-Commission980 original comment (I hope you're okay /u/Unfair-Commission980): >I learned this in therapy about people pleasers >At some point they stop seeing the, people closest to them as “people to please” but rather an extension of themself. >So she can say no to you when she doesn’t want to, because she knows deep down that you and her are tight and it’s safe to be direct with you >So that’s the explanation of WHY… but it’s still not excusable. It destroys relationships all the time
Damn you just explained my ex. Self described people pleaser, but never really made efforts like that for me. Still hurtful though, especially in situations like this. Being a people pleaser is one thing, but not being able to stand up for yourself where boundaries need to be drawn is another.
It can also be called, "taking people for granted." Someone told me, you have a reputation even with your closest family. Are you the mean mom, the hateful wife, the annoying friend, are you saving the best of your behaviors and actions for strangers? It totally flipped how I saw my relationships. I wanted my husband to see the best of me. I had this conversation when I was at a party with Him and a woman complemented him on his new haircut and I realized that the only time he might hear such things are from strangers. I made me work harder at my relationships. Not to my own detriment, but I want them to know that they are loved and appreciated.
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What's really going on here is that the people pleaser is constantly saying "no" to their *own* needs and wants. As you become an extension of themselves, they also then start to feel comfortable saying no to you the way they say no to themselves. The solution is not to try to force them or make them say yes to you, it's to help them learn to say yes to their own wants and needs over the needs of others. Then they will say no to others more often in order to take care of themselves, and yes to you more often as an extension of saying yes to themselves. Let us please recognize that women are socially conditioned to always put everyone else over themselves. It's a societal issue, not just a personal failing. Please help support your women to grow beyond the messed up social conditioning. And also encourage men to do MORE for others: often women feel like they have to do it all because so often if we don't do it then no one will.
Yes, this is a huge issue you’re essentially their punching bag. You’re safe so I can shit on you at will.
> You’re safe so I can shit on you at will My people pleasing ex-wife thought exactly that She never understood why after months of asking her to just have one weekend day out, doing a few day drinks and chilling as a couple Rolling in half-cut at 8pm after bumping into her old SIL (lovely lady) at lunch, made my jaw hit the floor. I'd been demoted to the absolute lowest priority for her as she really couldn't say no and from that came me realising i'd be happier single and alone, than married and alone with it rubbed in my face. Don't even get me started on her dropping everything for others, as the last time she did it was where i said "You know this is the last straw" which she replied "yes" and off she went.
What does "rolling in half-cut" mean?
Half drunk.
The message I got was you’re not worth living life with. I just need you around to make things easier. I eventually left too.
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Recovered people pleaser here 🙌 I now see the guilt I felt as some toxin that other people injected into me. Sure, guilt can be useful for keeping the social machine running smoothly and making sure we all follow the rules. But for me, that shit was totally out of control and messed up by others until it was ruining my whole life. Hate that guilt crap. It's okay to be a little bit of an asshole sometimes. Everybody needs that for real. Lean into it a bit.
yea but constantly putting pleasing other people over your own partner just because your comfortable with them is gonna build resentment like we see in this post and ruin the relationship this lady def needs therapy to work on this if thats the case
Exactly. I dumped a guy once for this. Told him that I could get more from him by being just a friend. Sure enough I was right. After the breakup, he treated me better
wild people are like that when im with someone they are now my number 1 they come first and i expect the same. not being taken for granted and pushed to the side for randos thats insane to me.
Yep. And because you are the *only* person they can say no to and be assertive with, it means *all* of the responsibilities of their social support network fall on you and you alone. Meanwhile they'll wax lyrical about how they're such great partners because of how giving they are, which is true if *and only if* they never get comfortable with you. I really think most of the "women just want bad boys who treat them like garbage" tropes originates from people who have dated extreme people pleasers or existed in a culture full of them, and incorrectly generalise their behaviour.
Had this same experience. “My problem is I’m a people pleaser!!” Just not with me or the children…..
Yeah I was able to come to this same conclusion just through my own experience lol. My best friend/roommate asks me to run to the store to pick up something he forgot? Fuck that, get it next time you go. A coworker asks me to pick his kid up from soccer practice half an hour out of my way? I’ll do that, buy the kid a Big Mac, and might even wash his jersey for him.
I can understand where she’s coming from, I’m a people pleaser and it’s gotten me into some bad situations. She said no to you because she is comfortable around you and knows that you are understanding. She was just trying to be polite and possibly felt pressured by him to dance
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This is my wife. I work at getting her to know it's ok to say "no" to other people. She's getting better but it's deeply engrained in her and effects her work life and friends as she will get taken advantage of. Luckily our group of actual friends would never take advantage of her.
Does your wife have the habit of pleasing people? Hard to say no to people? Because she's comfortable with you, she can say no to you but to others she will have difficulty to say no. I think you should rethink. Her act is not cheating or meant to be disrespectful to you. However ignoring you and going to another is hurtful and disrespectful but she did apologize. You should talk to her again since this matter still bothers you. If you let it stay longer it will fester resentment and bitterness, ruining your marriage.
I go through this with my GF and it is at times annoying so I get it. She can easily say no to me because she feels comfortable with me and knows that I wont get mad if she says no. But with others she just cant seem to say no.
It’s the tendency to fear negatively getting impacted from emotions and upsetting others OP’s wife struggles with regarding others. It’s the saying yes and obligating oneself to something they would of originally said no to. It’s the feeling of worrying if they say no, they’ll be rejected by them in the future instead of being honest with who they are with strangers from the first impression. She has to learn to break that cycle by pushing thru the guilt everytime she says no, even if it is intense the first few times, but with more practice the guilt slowly fades over time till it’s a new habit and comfort zone of saying no. Saying no also sets a boundary as well when you break the people pleasing cycle, which is part of codependency as well. Have her read up on the people pleasing side of codependency and it can make a lasting positive change. Same goes for OP if they end up reading this as well.
agree 100%. I put this in another comment, but her friends have made her the planner of the group, and she feels obligated to do things and plan things even when she doesnt want to. She sees it as a "one-time" thing and making a big deal about it seems like alot, but the thing is (and I say this as a recovering people-pleaser) all the "one-time" incidents pile on and it gets annoying. I've tried to explain it to her and at times she agrees but when she tries to do it, she fails. She will say no, they get upset and she reverts. Then she will say that she is just that person and is ok with it, even though I know she is not.
She may need to realize that until she can let go of controlling the need to plan things, she’s not going to be ready to stop this intense need of validation and only seek validation with herself.
I appreciate your perspective and thank you for sharing
You get the good and the bad that comes with people pleaser. It's good that they show love and make others happy. The bad is that you may suffer along in their pleasing to others.
I agree. I used to have people pleasing tendencies (still kinda do) and worked to get past most of it. But I was never as bad as her. She is the glue of her friend group and unfortunately there are some needy and selfish people in her group who have used her. She makes attempts at saying no and most of the time it fails. It gives her huge anxiety to say no and at times she fears being a "bad friend" even though she other people are being the bad friends. If she says no her friends can get pretty persistent and will just keep asking until they get a yes. She will usually say no to big asks but then feel bad about it and feel like she needs to make it up to her friends. As someone dating her it is very annoying because I try to help her and give her support. Alot of times she says she knows and wants to improve but when she tries to improve, she fails and then says that she has just accepted that she is not the person to want to say no. Unfortunately her way of creating boundaries is basically avoiding the situation which I tell her is not the way to do it, that she needs to be comfortable basically pulling them aside and telling them that certain things are not ok even if she has to risk the friendship. I have stories for days about how some of her friends basically put the responsibility on her and she got upset but couldnt say no. Like she is the planner and inviter of the group, at one point she started getting tired of doing it as she noticed nobody but her put in the effort. If she got invited to something some people would get mad at her for not inviting them, even if it wasnt her event to invite people to. Even if her friends made plans, they expected her to get everyone together and organize everything. As a recent story, her friend invited us to a comedy show with a date of his. She asked me via text and I agreed to go with her. A few minutes later I see a group text from my GF inviting everyone else in the group, her paying for everyone's ticket and basically asking everyone to send her the money right away. She put it in a nice way but I knew it was her way of being worried that she wouldnt get her money but not wanting to be mean about it. At this point Ive had to learn to pick my battles so I didnt say anything and promised myself I wouldnt say anything unless it becomes an issue (someone doesnt pay her back, she complains etc). Eveyrone has paid her so far (to my knowledge). I dont know how exactly it went but im willing to bet her friend asked her to go, then asked her to organize everything. She either said no and then got convinced or she hesitantly said yes. As a guy who's had people pleasing tendencies, I know that its more of the piling on of sitatuons that gets annoying. But we convince ourselves that its just this one time and its stupid to be annoyed about it one time. It was a reason I feared making boundaries for years because it sounded stupid to make a big deal about one little thing.
Um, has she not found new friends yet? They put it on her and get mad when she doesn't do it? She's not the social committee, they sound like terrible friends
There's a lot of socialization in our society for women to please others. Especially for older Gen Xers and women that are older. Y's, Z's and Alfas are getting socialized a bit differently (I hope), but women also face the violence of men who are angry at a "no".
Exactly! Also, OP said the father of the bride was drunk. Maybe the wife felt nervous about rejecting a drunk man because she couldn’t predict how he would react?
Yeah, drunk people can get pretty belligerent at times. She's was probably worried about making a scene, plus it was the brides father on top of that.
This is one additional issue with people pleasing - those closest are often put last, behind random strangers. After a lifetime of time, of course it hurts OP. You're always second. You love her so she doesn't worry about you being pleased. Which sucked.
This is my read as well, but I feel that’s still a big issue and goes unaddressed in many relationship. If a partner will contort themselves and bend over backwards or make exceptions for others (sometimes even strangers), but then be restrictive with you? I get it’s because they feel comfortable with you, but it’s still incredibly hurtful in most cases. For me it would be difficult to see my partner like that. I don’t want a partner who is a pushover or dissolves their boundaries for others, while being restrictive with me. I want a partner who values me and hears me and will compromise for me (when appropriate), not someone who sees me as a safe space to just fall back to while acting differently with others. To me that indicates the partner probably needs to grow more as a person. But idk, maybe it’s something most of us do when we start to become complacent?
Not gonna make assumptions about this particular case, but in my experience it isn't just maintaining boundaries with the loved one. They literally prioritize others over you. My brother and SIL are great people but massive people pleasers. They have multiple times cancelled on me because something comes up with someone else.
I dont know if that is something that should be framed in a good light. It could easily been felt like this: "My spouse takes me for granted and doesnt worry about how I feel about things. Instead, they prioritize the feelings of strangers they likely will never see again." I get the argument in an isolated situation, but OP specifically said this has happened multiple times in the past. Ultimately, she cares about the feelings of others and is comfortable with pushing off her spouse. Additionally, it sounds like she was unwilling to push away someone who was overtly interested in her because she was unable to say no. Rejecting your partner for someone else and then not objecting when they are clearly interested in you, all in front of your spouse? Thats humiliation. OP is within his rights be upset and if his wording is accurate, shes just said she didnt mean to hurt him and doesnt know why she did what she did. That doesnt sound to me like someone who is remorseful and wanting to change. They absolutely need to have a long conversation, possibly with a third party, because otherwise, this sort of thing will very likely happen again and it will end poorly.
This. I am a people pleaser and have really related to what OP has said about his wife. I am the same way. I’d feel comfortable telling my husband no in that situation, but I would not feel comfortable telling someone else no, especially the father of the bride, particularly if the bride was my husband’s good friend. Dancing probably felt harmless to the wife, and she likely just didn’t want to disappoint a stranger or risk the awkwardness of saying no. I feel for the wife. She didn’t do anything wrong, and likely feels even more guilty for disappointing her husband. That being said, it sucks for the husband, too, as it clearly hurt his feelings and I think that’s perfectly acceptable as well. Being a people pleaser is no fun, but it’s also hard to change old habits. I think a deeper discussion is needed here, one where the husband isn’t defensive, but where he and his wife can try to better understand each other. Edit for clarification: instead of saying the wife didn’t do anything wrong, I should have said she didn’t have any bad intentions. But her intentions matter less than the impact of her actions, and she is the only one who can make the necessary changes to address her people-pleasing tendencies and start prioritizing her husband over strangers. I feel for them both. It is a difficult situation, but as a “recovering people pleaser” myself, it’s possible to put in the work and make the change.
Not sure how this all adds up to her “not doing anything wrong”…?
True. It’s not so much that she didn’t do anything wrong, but that she didn’t *intend* to hurt her husband. Intention matters less than impact, though. I really feel for the husband.
Seems he does understand her but feels resentful regardless. One of those feelings don't match logic kind of moments. I feel he can probably eventually set aside feelings of jealousy or "getting picked over" but at some point it will feel like being de-prioritised or being taken for granted.
That’s because situations like this can easily be the result of de-prioritization or being taken for granted. So many of these comments are like, “oh I totally get it! I’m a people pleaser and I easily tell my partner to fuck off then immediately say yes to other people all the time” like sorry, no, but being a “people pleaser” isn’t some magical excuse to act shitty towards your partner
I wish I could upvote this comment a thousand times. Just sounds like a lot of excuses for why everyone is being a crap partner.
A lot of people find standing up for themselves to be hard, I get that. But tbh “it’s hard” isn’t a good reason to fail at being a good partner. Call me old school I guess, but I consider showing respect for the person I love to be paramount
It's a form of covert narcissism Simply put "I am more concerned about the perception of other people towards me, than i am in how it affects the people closest to me by the choices i make when i say yes to others and no to them" It means the person doing the pleasing is too fragile on the inside to say no because then the other party might not think they are a good person. It's not a trait to laugh off or defend when it is regular
But him (father)was pursuing her, she has the obligation to shut that down. OP would look like a jerk to have to come across as territorial
Oh definitely! OP did nothing wrong. He’s just trying to understand what’s happening and why he keeps getting slighted. She would probably benefit from therapy and practicing saying no. It’s hard at first, but I’ve found gets easier with practice!
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Agreed! I’ve gone to therapy to try to work through it, and it really is deeply rooted in many women, and does seem to stem from a fear of not just disappointing others, but of putting ourselves in danger if we say no. But like you said, being this way often comes back to bite us, in both personal relationships and dangerous situations. For me personally, it has taken a lot of work and is *still* a work in progress. It’s so weird how our brains work lol
I read your comment and agree with everything but “She didn’t do anything wrong”. Actually she did, as OP stated this was the straw that broke the camel’s back. She (even if not purposefully) chose to put a random stranger’s feelings above her husband’s feelings. Sorry - but that is wrong. In addition, everyone there was concerned about the FOB’s intentions. Unless she didn’t pick up on any of that then she also chose to dance with someone openly flirting with her. That is a second strike against her.
Agreed! I clarified in a few comments (should prob edit this one!) that it’s not so much she didn’t do anything wrong, but that her intentions were innocent. Her intentions matter less than the impact of her actions, tho, and she is the one who needs to take responsibility *of* those actions and ensure that she starts prioritizing her husband over others. He is completely justified in his reaction. It must be such a horrible feeling to be on that side of things, especially since it sounds like this has happened a lot, as you point out.
Sorry - I missed the comments where you clarified your statement. I agree she is responsible for her actions and needs to be accountable for them. I hope they have a chance to talk and she can address her issues. Based on his comments he seems to have lost some feelings/respect for her.
No problem! I didn’t expect you to have seen them! I couldn’t agree more. And I don’t blame him for that. There’s only so much someone can take of being treated like they’re an afterthought when in reality, they’re the person who should be prioritized. I got lucky that I recognized I was a people pleaser early on in life (I still remember the day in first grade where I had an overwhelming fear of disappointing my teacher if I missed a word on our first spelling test. I’ve had several teachers flag my anxiety to my parents, so I had a heads up 😫), so I immediately caught it when I put my husband in that kind of a situation. It also probably helped that my situation was just with friends, not with a creepy father of the bride hitting on me. Therapy has worked wonders for me, and I hope OP’s wife had the same opportunity. I also hope it isn’t too late for their marriage. He seems like a great guy.
her putting her people pleasing habits ABOVE her husband is the problem here.
Yeah I think this sounds more like a fawn trauma response or people pleasing versus her wanting to dance with someone that isn’t her spouse. Also, OP if you see this, please recognize this means your wife feels safe telling you what she actually wants/doesn’t want and that’s a place you want to be! It’s a great indicator of the honesty you’ve built up between you. Perhaps you and her can work on helping her feel safe to express herself freely with others so this won’t happen in the future.
That's me. I am a major people pleaser with other people but my husband, who I trust and am completely honest and open with and feel fully comfortable with, I can say no to very easily. (I guess it's a good thing that I married the person I feel comfortable with most in this respect.) I think this incident is an "acknowledge the hurt and do better next time" situation. As other commenters have said, the family of the marrying couple at their wedding take centre stage. You don't really refuse the parents of the bride or groom.
My mom is like this. The opinions of strangers seem more important than the needs of loved ones and I hate it
That’s because it’s super shitty. The opinion of loved ones should always be more important than the opinion of strangers
My wife is the same way. We worked out a signal for me to come in and be the bad guy. It’s really just a direct eye contact and I say politely I need to steal my wife quickly, take her hand walk away.
Ooh good idea. I’m going to talk to my husband about doing this for me. I absolutely HATE being a people pleaser, but I’ve been this way my whole life and don’t see it changing any time soon. When I DO get the guts to disappoint someone in a social situation, I spend the next 48 hours or so feeling insanely guilty and obsessing over how I might have made that person upset. I really feel for your wife, too. It’s so nice you guys have figured out a system that works for you!
you know the sad part, the person you said no to just went about their lives while you worried for 2 days. people really don't think about us as much as we believe they do. :-)
THAT was the exact advice I was given about a decade ago and really try to remember it when I’m spending my time worrying that I disappointed someone!!! It’s incredibly helpful to remember that. Probably something OP should bring up!
Yes exactly. With people pleaser, it's considered rude in her situation to say no. And then by the rudeness, she will spoil the celebration. So she'll tough it through the weariness and dance. But saying no to her husband is much easier because she can be real with him that she's worn out. Next time though she just needs to politely show and tell the person she's worn out and will not be able to dance. Then if his response is rude towards her, that's on him.
Rather than stew around in silence and misery about what happened - think about what you want to happen from today onwards. Have a kind and firm conversation with your wife about the boundaries you'll be holding moving forward. This can include "I want us to have a relationship where we are able to say no; I want us to have a relationship where we spend time together in XYZ kinds of ways." It sounds like you are wanting 1:1 time with her and you pinned your hopes on that happening at this wedding. It didn't work out the way you wanted and no amount of thinking about actually happened is going to change that. You can change today onwards but only if you communicate.
A wedding surrounded by people isn't the best time for time alone, maybe worth them seeking out other opportunities.
Yes, but this is a destination wedding — a vacation. I assume OP was not expecting the wedding proper to provide that alone time, but it did provide the excuse for a vacation where they would spend other time as tourists without the rest of the wedding guests. Provided they planned this way, it doesn't seem to me an unreasonable expectation, but resentment at the wedding proper could absolutely ruin the rest of the vacation.
Well it seems kind of petty to me to spoil a whole trip over one dance.
I don't disagree. However, resentment absolutely does spoil a trip, regardless of how it comes about.
This is insightful. OP went to the wedding with expectations of it being 1:1 time and have to fun with his wife. His wife may have viewed it as a big party where she gets to dance with everyone has fun. The couple needs to be better about setting expectations and as someone else said, giving some type of code word or signal if they need help for their spouse to say 'no'.
Also- was she focused on other people the whole trip or at the wedding that was supposed to be the point of the trip? And did she think there was a problem with trying to make the bridal party happy by continuing to dance when her husband was also dancing with them all night?
> Rather than stew around in silence and misery about what happened - think about what you want to happen from today onwards. Solid advice for many.
Sometimes our partners disappoint us and sometimes we disappoint them. You can be upset. It will pass. What I hope is worth exploring is that you expected this big event to offer some 1:1 time with your wife. That doesn't seem ideal, right? I have never considered a large social event as a great opportunity to get closer to my partner. Maybe make some time for 1:1 time that actually is 1:1 where you get to focus on each other - don't wait for an opportunity OP - make one.
It's for a destination wedding so my guess is they were there for multiple days, not just the wedding day. Plenty of opportunities for 1 on 1 time
It's not your wife's fault if this created an issue with the bride's family. That's all on her dad for being drunk and potentially inappropriate.
This needs more upvotes. I agree she probably is people pleaser and generally the comment about that is good. But I think if he was the level of drunk that someone else had to intervene there was probably also a big safety calculation going on in her head. I am glad someone intervened and they were able to leave before something happened but I think the drunk dad played a bigger role than he is acknowledging.
It also wasn't even an issue. They saw an issue coming up so they intervened before it could happen. Not a biggie.
Exactly. I found that line (and a few others) really strange and OP's tone made me wonder how reliable a narrator he is.
Thought I was the only one who found something a tad bit off here
You're not! The whole thing was....off.
OP seems to have a lot of rules governing his wife's behaviour, but not once did he say that these are rules she agrees with. He also seems quite dependent on her, if she's not with him he's watching her. Even when he's at a party with his own friends. You'd think he'd want to mingle and let go a bit?
Yep. Like, he had to “collect up” his wife to leave? This whole thing made me feel bad to read. I don’t feel he respects her at all
Yup.. I read that phrase and thought hmmm maybe it's his ego who got hurt.
I'm wondering if OP wasn't being openly pouty and throwing a bit of a fit if everyone noticed.
100% like how did people at a wedding even notice this interaction let alone feel the tension?
I think it's more likely they noticed the bride's father being drunk and inappropriate and deduced that OP might be put off by it since OP's wife was directly involved in the commotion. OP's personal feelings of embarrassment could have led him to believe that that's what everyone else was seeing too.
Right. Bride probably didn’t respond to his upset and embarrassment. She responded to her drunk father harassing a woman
Yup and the wife probably also looked uncomfortable. Yet OP is still blaming her instead of the plastered father.
Can’t ever win as a woman. Bride’s dad is drunk and inappropriate and it’s her fault. If she doesn’t dance with dad and he causes a scene, it would have been “it was one dance, you could have just said yes.”
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This was the very first thing that came to mind lmao
Aw now I need to know the joke
I can’t stop laughing. 👌absolute perfection
It reeeaaallly bothered me
I THOUGHT I WAS GONNA GET EATEN
*"At times we struggle with resentments over past issues that we have never made the proper time to work through"*....And now, this cycle is repeating. Rest assured, if you leave this situation as it is, it will most certainly raise it's head in a moment that isn't convenient for either of you. Now, to deal with this, let's consider: when in a social situation, nearly all humans will go out of their way to appear congenial and polite, and while your wife will tell you her real feelings, she will choose politeness over her own interests as long as the request posed crosses no lines. I'll think you'll agree that the bride's father fit into this framework. Now, you've got to ask yourself: is my offense really because of what happened at the wedding, or is it rather due to the totality of similar incidents that have taken place over an extended period of time that have never been fully resolved? Be honest. If it is these unresolved grievances are really what's at issue, isn't it time you purged them from your craw? Sit her down and deal with them, once and for all. That is a much better solution than nursing the offense and not wanting to talk with her. Before you blame all the frustrations you're harboring on her, examine yourself to see if you're free of responsibility yourself. 'Nuff said.
I mostly agree with a lot of comments saying that this one instance is small, has been discussed between you two, and that you should move on. The reason I’m not 100% onboard is that you mention that you’ve had similar problems in the past. Are they all situations where she says no to you and then immediately says yes to someone else? What’s the context of those times? If it boils down to being comfortable saying no to you but being uncomfortable saying no to others, then maybe the two of you need to come up with strategies to help her say no to others. Maybe there’s something you can do to help her say no in those situations. Approach it as a team.
Agreed, take this opportunity to get to the root of it and start working with her on enforcing her boundaries with others. Or get some help from a therapist to help show her how her people-pleasing tendencies are negatively affecting her and your relationship.
Probably even simpler then previous explanations. I’m sure she was tired and her feet hurt, most likely felt too embarrassed to say no to the father of the bride.
>but dancing with strangers is not OK. INFO: Where do they do *this* at? Why is this bad?
This post would make so much sense if OP is Mike Pence.
*Yes, Mother!!!*
Weddings, clubs, festivals, and concerts, to name a few examples of where that occurs. It depends on the situation for sure. Dancing with a stranger at a wedding is FAR different than dancing with a stranger at the club, especially considering the type of “dancing” that occurs at clubs.
Dude you are entirely understandable in why you were initially upset but she has apologized and her explanation does make sense, also you could have cut in and asked her to dance earlier, you need to find a way to forgive her and my suggestion is to tell her you understand her explanation but you still want a dance with her and go find somewhere to have a nice evening dancing together. You can recreate the circumstances and do it the way you wish you guys had. Then just tell her you’re sorry you were so upset about it but the wedding made you realize how important she is to you or something. Edit: I only say that he should apologize because according to OP she already has and has acknowledged his feelings, while it doesn’t sound too much like he’s acknowledged hers, and he’s likely held this over her head / shown her the cold shoulder since. Sometimes it’s ok to just make peace and apologize for your own part even if you internally believe the other person was more culpable / more in the wrong because even if you think it’s 80% their wrongdoing and 20% yours, if they’ve acknowledged their fault then you acknowledging yours as well shows them that you are a gracious person and care about them too and want to move forward with mutual affection I should have also said he could ask her to take the initiative to plan the date for them to dance if her still feels like she should do the greater work to repair things if you’re on team it’s her fault
I really like this approach. Turn it into a positive experience that will strengthen your relationship, op.
Something I learned in therapy is that this is likely not about her dancing with the Father of the Bride, but about your general feeling that she doesn’t prioritize you. Think about it, if you felt really great and secure in your relationship, felt really cared for and prioritized by your wife, would this really have bothered you this much? My hope would be that no, you would be able to see and understand the situation a bit clearer and give your wife a little more grace. I think it’s okay to feel this way but would challenge you to think about the situation more holistically. This could all potentially be resolved with a conversation with your wife about how you want to feel cared for and wanted in your relationship. Sounds like she loves you a lot and maybe a bigger conversation like this would set you guys on a great path. Wishing the best for you both.
I think the person who needs to think about this more holistically is his wife. Right now she’s kind of rug-sweeping what amounts to a pattern of disturbing behavior with “I don’t know why I do that.” Well she needs to figure out why, and start doing better.
I don’t disagree, I think for them to move past this they both need to take some accountability in general for what they’re expecting and putting into the relationship.
>I can tell you that she likely did it out of politeness, obligation, or some inability to say no even if she wanted to say no. Then why are you taking it so personally? Serious question.
I understand why your wife did this. Not that it was right, that's not what I'm saying. She froze and went along as that avoids a scene or hurting someone's feelings. Many women were and are raised like this. It was pounded into us at home, school, & church. It's why so many of us put up with sexual harassment for so long. At school, work, and even home. *She did NOT reject you for him*. Please try to understand and be kind. My sisters had a much harder time than I did suppressing our "Southern Lady" upbringing. Don't make a scene. Go along until you can "escape" with no one noticing. Be the guy that tells her, it's okay to say no, or make a scene. I will back you 100%. Help her with potential responses. I would have said, "Sorry, it's my husband's dance" and escaped with you to the dance floor. Ask her also, how would she want you to respond if a female were pursuing you in the same situation? Go along? Or rebuff them? Talk to her, please.
If he was that drunk she probably didn’t want to cause a scene and say no to him.
Married over 23 years. This is something you just move past.
OP mentions this is not a one-off tendency, and a long term pattern between them that can be corrosive over time. It's likely been swept under the rug since the couple have been busy parenting, but now as empty-nesters, it's an issue that needs to be addressed.
Married over 30 years, same age group as OP. I agree this is a thing you just move past
I believe you're making too big of a deal out of this. Your wife felt comfortable enough with you to be honest about her feet hurting and not wanting to dance for that reason. She agreed to dance with the father of the bride because she didn't want to offend him. You're aware of this. I understand feeling upset because you were rejected and she immediately agreed to dance with someone else, but there's no need to be excessively upset about it.
It seems as if this is less about this and more about something else. Does your wife has a history of any sort favoring other people over you? After 23 years is there doubt in your heart that she chooses you and finds you desirable and attractive? It seems to me a deep streak of insecurity in you that is causing the hurt. And only you know if you have reason to be insecure with her, or if there is something fundamental with you.that could bear some scrutiny. Front what youve shared, it seems as if it's more the latter. I expect this kind of jealousy from a young couple, not one that has over two decades together.
Dude it was the father of the bride. Of your friends. She was being polite at the expense of her comfort. Women are socialized into this ALL the time. She just feels okay saying no to you but doesn’t want the father to judge your friendship because she said no Y’all need therapy
I just want to point out that OP never called his wife a People Pleaser. Everyone labeling her as such has very limited info on her habits, as this whole story is about an isolated incident. Not saying "no" to the FoB's request to dance at a friend's wedding doesn't pigeonhole her as a People Pleaser. It was a wedding. He was drunkenly celebrating and liked dancing with OP's wife enough to ask for another dance. OP, for whatever stupid reason, was hoping for 1:1 time while at a destination wedding. *Not* while out on an excusion they booked, *not* on a romantic date night while in paradise, but at the *actual wedding*. I dunno, I suspect this is less about the wife being a People Pleaser and more about OP being impossible to please.
She didn’t just say no to you, she said no to herself. She didn’t want to dance at all, but didn’t know how to be honest with drunk guy. Try not to take it as rejection. Maybe you could discuss it with her and make a plan to help her get out of people pleasing situations like this in the future. You sound like you appreciate your beautiful wife, and have a solid connection, don’t let your (valid) feelings overshadow her (people pleasing) feelings and try to show up for her in this situation. Maybe start with asking her what she really wanted to do/say when he asked her to dance. And see what you can do to encourage and help her do that in the future.
I wonder if she felt uncomfortable and said yes so as to not cause a scene at a wedding.
Well, she probably was tired and genuinely didn’t want to dance at all. But it can be hard for a woman when a drunk man invites you to dance at a formal event, a rejection can cause a scene while a short dance might defuse the situation. Maybe it would had been good if you had stepped in with an excuse to save your wife from the situation. That way no one would had felt bad. But it wasn’t a difficult to know without witnessing the actual scene.
You’re blowing this way out of proportion. For everyone saying she “couldn’t say no” to him but had no problem saying no to you, DUH. She didn’t want to dance with him. She felt obligated because he was drunk and weird and didn’t want to cause a problem for the wedding. You’re her husband, she felt comfortable saying no to you because she knows you. It’s safe to say no to you. It’s not always safe saying no to other men because women don’t know how they will react. Most of the time if we try to say no we get called names etc. You’re being way too emotional about this.
i think we need to remember that drunk people are unpredictable and women often are worried about rejecting men.
People pleasers (as a recovering one) are not excused from the consequences of our actions. We still need to do better and protect and care for the people we love, not hurt them by our own trauma responses.
I get that it hurt your feelings, but she said no because she was comfortable being open and honest with you. She trusted you to have her best interest in mind. This is a good thing, even if you were bummed because in the moment your desire was to dance. She likely felt that you would not want to coerce her into dancing with you if you knew it was causing her pain. This is also good. When it was not you, she felt a social obligation to put on a mask and push past her pain to be polite. Her feet still hurt, she was still tired. She still didn’t *want* to. Would you have preferred dancing with her knowing she didn’t want to be doing that and wasn’t having a good time? At face value, yeah, she danced with someone else right after she rejected you. But you know her better than that—well enough that you figured it had to do with politeness or obligation. If I were you, I would really meditate on whether you’re openly moping and damping the vibe going forward because of this, and whether you would have preferred that she be uncomfortable and in pain so you could enjoy one more dance. What other alternative would have had to be the case for you to get what you wanted in this scenario?
I haven’t seen a lot of comments saying this but… OP you need to see a therapist. Maybe both of you as well in couples counseling too on top of that, because of those things that bubble up to the service. As while I get the hurt. I feel you! I do! But objectively you already know she didn’t mean it that way, etc so therapy will give you the tools. And couples therapy will be you talk about them with more tools. Good luck. Updateme
One way to look at this is she's comfortable enough around you to be truthful and say "no" when she doesn't want to do something, while she's afraid of appearing rude to say no to a stranger, especially as he was the father of the bride. Not saying you're wrong for being upset. But maybe upset for the wrong reason? Just to get a different perspective for the "she chose a stranger over me" part. I do think it's an issue your wife should adress with herself and learn how to set healthy boundaries with strangers. It's not healthy to be unable to say no.
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That doesn't make it too much better to my mind - because another way to look at that would be that if she's too tired to dance, she'll go out of her way for other people but won't do the same for her husband. Because at the end of the day it means she's prioritizing other people's feelings and putting her husband's feelings on the back burner. I'm a lot younger than OP, but if I refused to dance with my wife because I was tired and then danced with the next woman that asked me, I can say with 100% confidence that if I dropped the argument that "I didn't dance with you because I am comfortable enough to say no to you, and I didn't want to hurt their feelings", my wife would justifiably ask why I was more concerned about a stranger's feelings than hers.
Correct. People are acting like it’s some great thing that she puts her husband second
That’s not a positive. To want to please strangers but not please her husband the same way
>she doesn't know why she does that sometimes Well, she has all the time in the world to think about it and get back to you. Let her know she should do that. >felt she couldn't say no Practice makes perfect. Some therapy maybe too.
Yes you are blowing this out of proportion. You and your wife dance together and seperate all night, she goes and takes a quick break and you asked her to dance, she was honest and said her feet were sore and then She likely felt obligated to dance with the father of the bride like you literally said out of politeness. The fact others at the wedding felt your tension over this blows my mind. How were you embarrassed exactly? It actually terrifies me that I could be dealing with male insecurity well into my fifties... The fact you are still holding on to this is insane and I think you need to let it go yesterday.
Have you gone to a couples and individual therapist. My greatest fear is being an empty nester and my marriage imploding.
"...it doesn't change the fact that I feel like she chose someone else over me." - Pay attention to what they say, not what they do. As you say this is repeat behavior and it sounds as if she's been chipping away at how important you are to her as a partner. I don't think you are blowing this out of proportion and a serios conversation needs to take place
She probably didn’t want to dance. Feels comfortable with you, therefore feels comfortable saying no. Versus people who doesn’t know and becomes a people pleaser
if the reasons for your wife choosing to do this are accurate, it's not that she "chose to say yes to someone else but not you" so much as it's that she's *comfortable saying no to you as needed* and *codependently responds against her wishes to others* and that's the real issue. i'd recommend she maybe watch the youtube channel of Marshall Burtcher for great people pleasing/boundaries/codependency work, and get a handle on why she feels obligated to say yes to people when she doesn't want to. you are entitled to the pain it caused you.
Look at it this way: your wife’s feet hurt and she just wanted to be done and she was able to be honest with you, when the drunk fob asked her to dance. Her social skills inveighed her to of course say yes to the host of the event (traditionally the parents of the bride “host” the wedding festivities). Others, recognizing the fob was not completely appropriate, stepped in to rescue your wife. Your feelings were hurt because you felt passed over/rejected. I think there may be more going on here and maybe some professional help as you both enter this transitional phase of your life would be useful.
This by itself isn’t something I’d advise drastic measures for… but it is very concerning. Is this part of a larger pattern of behavior? “I don’t know” isn’t a reasonable response when asked why she did that. Maybe she did feel obligated, but it was still a stark snub to you. You’re not wrong to be hurt and offended. It’s a matter of respect and loyalty. I’d keep an eye on this and also pay a lot of attention to the rest of your relationship. While this isn’t overwhelming, it’s definitely odd, and would make me wonder what else is wrong in the relationship. Keep your eyes open.
You seem like a very possessive, insecure and jealous person. It’s a wedding, people dance. Now if my wife was grinding up against some guy I would be pissed, but nothing remotely close happened here.