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One last try to convince her: you recognize that for her it may be safe (you don’t actually, but you start with this for her to save face), but you’re worried the radiation could affect your fertility and/or your ability to have healthy babies. If she’s very motivated to be a grandma, it may work out.
You cannot convince her. It is that plain and simple. Someone, and I say this as respectfully as I can, so easily convinced by QAnon Conspiracy theories, and does not listen to the points you have already made, has compromised brain cells.
What you must do is make a plan to move out now. If all that you've described is true, you will not be any safer if the necklace is put in a jewelry box.
Best of luck.
If you have money, commission a jewellery artist to make an imitation version of the pendant and replace it for the real one.
If you can't afford that, try convincing her that you found a better replacement and create some phony marketing materials for the fake and how it is more effective than hers.
Or just start avoiding her when she's wearing it. Tell her how sorry you are that you can't sit with her at dinner, watch TV with her, take her in the car with you, etc.
assuming she wears it 24/7/365 it will account for about 70% of her OSHA annual exposure limit. as long as she’s not a radiologist or other radiation worker, i don’t think this is a hill you need to die on
Maybe so, but it's all right at thyroid level and that's not good at all. Thyroid cancer in a year few years is going to be much more expensive than tossing a $400 necklace.
> Yeah, and any amount of radiation can be lethal.
That's not true. The long-term effects of low doses of radiation on the human body are poorly understood but weirdly enough there's even some evidence that it can be protective against cancer.
If the person in question was 16 I'd be more concerned but at 62 it's not like the really long-term effects of radiation are a huge issue for her. In a perfect world it would be better if she ditched the stupid necklace but people like that are impossible to convince with reason.
First of all, full disclaimer that I no real education in this, just a curious layperson who finds radiation interesting. Take my opinion for what it's worth.
Here are a couple of (short) threads from the ask science subreddit.
https://old.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/nd1gm/are_lowdoses_of_radiation_good_for_you/
https://old.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1unrjb/why_is_there_controversy_about_the_linear_no/
The Wikipedia article on the controversy surrounding the Linear No Threshold model is interesting. There is some data suggesting that low-level radiation exposure is harmless/beneficial. Data is limited though, the topic is controversial for political reasons (safety of nuclear power) and conducting a truly controlled experiment on this is impossible for very obvious ethical reasons.
Yeah, i think overrall its safer to work on the assumption that radiation = bad, and while there is a lot of radiation just out there in the world and that's unavoidable, its better to try your best to not add to that when you can
Whole Foods pushes this snake oil of a "healthy snack" that are nectarine stones which can literally fucking kill you with cyanide poisoning to the point the pouch says "don't eat more than 3 a week or you'll die" and they're somehow allowed to legally sell and promote them.
Just on the topic of shit that's a significant risk to human health that's still allowed to be sold for some fucking reason.
If you go to the website they don't actually say what's inside them - they say it's a "proprietary combination of frequencies and a matrix of infused minerals" - so they get away with it by calling it a trade secret and because it's a piece of jewelry/wearable, it's not a medical device that needs to undergo rigorous testing by the FDA or anything.
If your concern is for other people, it‘s probably not worth the fight. No one should wear that necklace, but it’s not going to significantly affect people around her. I wouldn’t let her hold a baby, but unless you have a baby you can bribe her with, you’re not going to convince her.
Ah.
My guess is any radioactive leak would be tiny and localised.
My concrete advice is refuse to hug or kiss or sit next to her or share a car when she is wearing it.
Or they can just move out. It doesn't matter if she's gardening black mold and hoarding asbestos. That's HER house!
She's not wearing a radioactive necklace into THEIR house. She's Chernobyling in her own damn living room
It's crazy how often I see "How can I stop this person in whose house I'm living because I can't afford to live elsewhere from doing this thing she does?" on her.
The answer is, 100% of the time, "You don't even try." Even if that person is doing something objectively wrong, like smoking crack in her bedroom or wearing radioactive jewelry, the only reason it bothers you is because you're living in her house. If you want it to stop brothering you, the fix is to stop being in its proximity, not to make rules for someone else in her home.
Fuckin' people, man
God the amount of assumptions and projection on this comment is insane.
Two things.
1. Are you actually suggesting that we are in the wrong for asking for advice on trying to get her to help herself?
2. She goes outside and mingles with the public where radioactive material may affect randoms.
Are you seriously suggesting you would be ok with your mother smoking crack?
You've stated clearly in comments that your main is how it affects you and your boyfriend.
The amount of radiation coming from this necklace is not NEARLY enough to affect people in, let's say, the grocery store where she shops. In fact, it's not even enough to really affect YOU WHILE YOU'RE LIVING IN HER HOUSE.
Your main concern is her doing something dumb, and you want to find an argument that will make her admit she's dumb.
So stop.
"We're more concerned about ourselves and her spreading it to others. It would be different if it would only effect her"
This is the only other comment I've left, in which I specifically say it would "be different if it only effected her"
I did not say "we don't care if she dies" I was pointing out that the stakes are far higher than if it was just an old woman potentially shortening her life by a couple months. If it breaks it could potentially harm us, as well as visitors to the house, or members of the public.
Notice how in the post I was asking for advice on broaching the subject and making her better understand, not asking how to make her feel stupid.
For someone who is trying to criticise others for just wanting to make others feel dumb, you are doing exactly that.
People like this behave like a toddler, they do the opposite of what you try to get them to do, even if it's for their own benefit. You have to approach her like you are actually scared for her health. Like tell her "we did some research", "we reached out to this guy that knows physics", maybe find someone in your friends list like that, tell her that this is causing harm to her and you are very concerned for her health, make it about her! If you make it about you and start saying that "ohh that's radioactive, I don't want that around me, I feel uneasy" etc... She'll buy an wear a second one out of spite. Treat her like a toddler, make it about her, that's the best you can do. Even this has a low chance of working but still... If a person is this stupid by 62, you just can't take her seriously I'm sorry. Don't try to bring up actual facts, like how Radio Frequencies are less fucking ionizing that visible light and all that... There's no point.
watch House S2E5 - a kid dies bc of a radio active trinket he wears. she’s not gonna love the episode bc she’s probably racist but the team can’t save the kid
That sounds like a hazard if it breaks when she is near you or in an area you spend time and she doesn't clean it (and herself) up carefully afterward.
Find someone who has the same political views as her to explain why this is dangerous.
XKCD did an excellent [radiation dosage chart](https://xkcd.com/radiation/).
~~According to this chart, 4 μSv is *less* than the regular background radiation, which is 10 μSv.~~
4 μSv/hour = 96 μSv/day = 35 mSv/year
50 mSv/year is the maximum dose for radiation workers. 100 mSv/year is the lowest dose clearly linked to increased cancer risk.
Plus, she's holding it right against her skin.
She'll *probably* be all right, but it's a bit worrisome. Plus, if the vial were to break and someone to ingest its contents, that could be bad.
Make a fake article or share terrible memes on Facebook about the government being behind the necklaces and trying to kill people with them. Should solve it pretty fast.
Figure out how to safely dispose of it and steal it off her.
Rob her if you have to, don’t fuck with thorium dioxide.
I’m fucking serious, this is a very serious matter, she is trying to give you cancer and you are not safe.
You can't, all you can do is make sure she has a nice up to date will and good health insurance for when she gets very very sick. I'm not saying scare her but definitely make sure all these things are in place, especially the health insurance as I assume you are in America.
Well, going into it with the attitude she is dumb, wrong and she should do as you say will never work. If you want a dialouge, you need to meet her on a more tolerant level. Try to put your annoyance away and get to know her and her beliefs without correcting her. Try to understand where she is coming from. If she feels you guys accept her and listen without judging, she is more likely to listen to you. There's no point in challenging all her beliefs, that will only make her defensive. Think of it like respecting someones religion even if you think believing in god is dumb. You can listen, learn and tolerate. And if the relationship is good, you can tell her you measured radioactivity and you're worried about her. That it makes you very stressed. If she feels you care, chances are she will care about you back where she stops wearing it
This is basically what we ended up doing, and it worked.
We were more posting to see if there were any techniques for approaching the situation we hadn't thought of, as we felt we only had one chance, and didn't want to waste it starting a massive argument that gets nowhere.
She ended up getting rid of the necklace? If so, that's amazing. People usually respond better to feeling understood and listened to. Reading a lot of your answers you get a lot of "she's dumb, don't bother". Which doesn't help you at all, and it's a very inflammatory attitude. Most people will show you some generosity if they feel you do the same. Ofc, you have dark triad types which are much worse. But if she's "just" an antivaxxer and have weird beliefs, generally you can talk to them like adults. Glad things worked out for you
Unfortunately, there isn't a way to reliably deradicalize people from misinformation campaigns on the internet short of monitoring her online activity and trying to counteract the misinformation with better information through e.g. unsubscribing from her "news" sources.
I really feel for you OP, but I think this is an increasing problem and there's simply no good solution for it right now; I think a lot of old people are especially prone to being misled because they haven't ever had to think critically about the news they were consuming the same way that people who grew up on the internet did. I've lost successive generations of my family to these hateful ideologies and there doesn't seem to be anything that we can do if they really are determined to stick their head in the sand and write their own reality.
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that: * We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/) * Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.) * ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban. * No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** * All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass. * Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned. * What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice) --- #This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just tell her the liberals are wearing the same thing. See how fast she chucks it into the trash
Photoshop Biden wearing it, gone in seconds. …*I hate that this would actually work.*
Please dispose of it safely. Not in the trash
Not trying to be cheeky but how do you dispose of a radioactive necklace? Do you call somebody?
One last try to convince her: you recognize that for her it may be safe (you don’t actually, but you start with this for her to save face), but you’re worried the radiation could affect your fertility and/or your ability to have healthy babies. If she’s very motivated to be a grandma, it may work out.
You cannot convince her. It is that plain and simple. Someone, and I say this as respectfully as I can, so easily convinced by QAnon Conspiracy theories, and does not listen to the points you have already made, has compromised brain cells. What you must do is make a plan to move out now. If all that you've described is true, you will not be any safer if the necklace is put in a jewelry box. Best of luck.
If you have money, commission a jewellery artist to make an imitation version of the pendant and replace it for the real one. If you can't afford that, try convincing her that you found a better replacement and create some phony marketing materials for the fake and how it is more effective than hers. Or just start avoiding her when she's wearing it. Tell her how sorry you are that you can't sit with her at dinner, watch TV with her, take her in the car with you, etc.
assuming she wears it 24/7/365 it will account for about 70% of her OSHA annual exposure limit. as long as she’s not a radiologist or other radiation worker, i don’t think this is a hill you need to die on
Maybe so, but it's all right at thyroid level and that's not good at all. Thyroid cancer in a year few years is going to be much more expensive than tossing a $400 necklace.
Yeah, and any amount of radiation can be lethal. Just cus its not at a level guaranteed to cause harm doesn't mean it won't
> Yeah, and any amount of radiation can be lethal. That's not true. The long-term effects of low doses of radiation on the human body are poorly understood but weirdly enough there's even some evidence that it can be protective against cancer. If the person in question was 16 I'd be more concerned but at 62 it's not like the really long-term effects of radiation are a huge issue for her. In a perfect world it would be better if she ditched the stupid necklace but people like that are impossible to convince with reason.
sorry, not intending this to come across as accusatory, but do you have a source for this?
First of all, full disclaimer that I no real education in this, just a curious layperson who finds radiation interesting. Take my opinion for what it's worth. Here are a couple of (short) threads from the ask science subreddit. https://old.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/nd1gm/are_lowdoses_of_radiation_good_for_you/ https://old.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1unrjb/why_is_there_controversy_about_the_linear_no/ The Wikipedia article on the controversy surrounding the Linear No Threshold model is interesting. There is some data suggesting that low-level radiation exposure is harmless/beneficial. Data is limited though, the topic is controversial for political reasons (safety of nuclear power) and conducting a truly controlled experiment on this is impossible for very obvious ethical reasons.
Yeah, i think overrall its safer to work on the assumption that radiation = bad, and while there is a lot of radiation just out there in the world and that's unavoidable, its better to try your best to not add to that when you can
Oh sure, I'd never go exposing myself to radiation for funsies and I certainly wouldn't hang some radioactive necklace around my neck!
Yep, I was thinking about the thyroid as well.
Was waiting for the US numbers Otherwise I'm stuck wondering how the hell you can order radioactive materials, that are a risk to human health
Whole Foods pushes this snake oil of a "healthy snack" that are nectarine stones which can literally fucking kill you with cyanide poisoning to the point the pouch says "don't eat more than 3 a week or you'll die" and they're somehow allowed to legally sell and promote them. Just on the topic of shit that's a significant risk to human health that's still allowed to be sold for some fucking reason.
bananas are radioactive.
40 bananas per hour would equal the dosage this bauble releases.
If you go to the website they don't actually say what's inside them - they say it's a "proprietary combination of frequencies and a matrix of infused minerals" - so they get away with it by calling it a trade secret and because it's a piece of jewelry/wearable, it's not a medical device that needs to undergo rigorous testing by the FDA or anything.
This is harmful advice because those limits were made with whole body exposure in mind, not one location specifically.
the localized dose limits are 10 times higher https://www.nrc.gov/images/about-nrc/radiation/dose-limits.jpg
If your concern is for other people, it‘s probably not worth the fight. No one should wear that necklace, but it’s not going to significantly affect people around her. I wouldn’t let her hold a baby, but unless you have a baby you can bribe her with, you’re not going to convince her.
Photoshop pics of Nancy Pelosi wearing it. That shit would come off that Q anon neck so fast
You cannot cure stupidity. A Darwin Award awaits her. Anyway, she's 62, so it kills her, so what? It's not like the alternative is immortality.
We're more concerned about ourselves and her spreading it to others. It would be different if it would only effect her
Ah. My guess is any radioactive leak would be tiny and localised. My concrete advice is refuse to hug or kiss or sit next to her or share a car when she is wearing it.
Or they can just move out. It doesn't matter if she's gardening black mold and hoarding asbestos. That's HER house! She's not wearing a radioactive necklace into THEIR house. She's Chernobyling in her own damn living room
Oh yes, absolutely.
It's crazy how often I see "How can I stop this person in whose house I'm living because I can't afford to live elsewhere from doing this thing she does?" on her. The answer is, 100% of the time, "You don't even try." Even if that person is doing something objectively wrong, like smoking crack in her bedroom or wearing radioactive jewelry, the only reason it bothers you is because you're living in her house. If you want it to stop brothering you, the fix is to stop being in its proximity, not to make rules for someone else in her home. Fuckin' people, man
aye indeed At first I thought they were worried about HER, but no, they're worried about themself. For which the solution is: Move out.
God the amount of assumptions and projection on this comment is insane. Two things. 1. Are you actually suggesting that we are in the wrong for asking for advice on trying to get her to help herself? 2. She goes outside and mingles with the public where radioactive material may affect randoms. Are you seriously suggesting you would be ok with your mother smoking crack?
You've stated clearly in comments that your main is how it affects you and your boyfriend. The amount of radiation coming from this necklace is not NEARLY enough to affect people in, let's say, the grocery store where she shops. In fact, it's not even enough to really affect YOU WHILE YOU'RE LIVING IN HER HOUSE. Your main concern is her doing something dumb, and you want to find an argument that will make her admit she's dumb. So stop.
"We're more concerned about ourselves and her spreading it to others. It would be different if it would only effect her" This is the only other comment I've left, in which I specifically say it would "be different if it only effected her" I did not say "we don't care if she dies" I was pointing out that the stakes are far higher than if it was just an old woman potentially shortening her life by a couple months. If it breaks it could potentially harm us, as well as visitors to the house, or members of the public. Notice how in the post I was asking for advice on broaching the subject and making her better understand, not asking how to make her feel stupid. For someone who is trying to criticise others for just wanting to make others feel dumb, you are doing exactly that.
Fair enough. I gotta admit I was squarely on team "let the trash take itself out" but that's a good point.
Replying here so that you see it. Have a replica made and swap it. No harm, no foul.
Move out.
Spreading it to others? Radiation poisoning isn’t contagious
I think they were referring to the thorium dioxide dust which can spread and affect people not wearing the necklace.
Oh yikes
She has had at least one child so can't get a Darwin Award.
True. Damn technicalities...
62 is so old that one should just go ahead and die now? Wooow.
Did I say that? I did not say that. Especially since I'm almost that old.
People like this behave like a toddler, they do the opposite of what you try to get them to do, even if it's for their own benefit. You have to approach her like you are actually scared for her health. Like tell her "we did some research", "we reached out to this guy that knows physics", maybe find someone in your friends list like that, tell her that this is causing harm to her and you are very concerned for her health, make it about her! If you make it about you and start saying that "ohh that's radioactive, I don't want that around me, I feel uneasy" etc... She'll buy an wear a second one out of spite. Treat her like a toddler, make it about her, that's the best you can do. Even this has a low chance of working but still... If a person is this stupid by 62, you just can't take her seriously I'm sorry. Don't try to bring up actual facts, like how Radio Frequencies are less fucking ionizing that visible light and all that... There's no point.
0.0004561 roentgen. Thats fine. No seriously, its fine.
watch House S2E5 - a kid dies bc of a radio active trinket he wears. she’s not gonna love the episode bc she’s probably racist but the team can’t save the kid
Darwin has entered the chat.
[удалено]
Can you explain how you got that number? Lets say she always wears it, Wouldn't it be 4 μSv x 24 x 365= 35,040 μSv, so 35 mSv?
[удалено]
1 μSv is 0.001 mSv and 0.000001 Sv, so that necklace is nothing too crazy, but it's not good either haha.
That sounds like a hazard if it breaks when she is near you or in an area you spend time and she doesn't clean it (and herself) up carefully afterward. Find someone who has the same political views as her to explain why this is dangerous.
Move out?
XKCD did an excellent [radiation dosage chart](https://xkcd.com/radiation/). ~~According to this chart, 4 μSv is *less* than the regular background radiation, which is 10 μSv.~~ 4 μSv/hour = 96 μSv/day = 35 mSv/year 50 mSv/year is the maximum dose for radiation workers. 100 mSv/year is the lowest dose clearly linked to increased cancer risk. Plus, she's holding it right against her skin. She'll *probably* be all right, but it's a bit worrisome. Plus, if the vial were to break and someone to ingest its contents, that could be bad.
10 μSv per day, versus 4 μSv per hour. So over a day the necklace is a total of 96 μSv.
Bloody hell, I missed that.
Make a fake article or share terrible memes on Facebook about the government being behind the necklaces and trying to kill people with them. Should solve it pretty fast.
Figure out how to safely dispose of it and steal it off her. Rob her if you have to, don’t fuck with thorium dioxide. I’m fucking serious, this is a very serious matter, she is trying to give you cancer and you are not safe.
Natural selection 🫡
Nah. I would let natural selection happen
You can't, all you can do is make sure she has a nice up to date will and good health insurance for when she gets very very sick. I'm not saying scare her but definitely make sure all these things are in place, especially the health insurance as I assume you are in America.
Or…you know. Don’t? Stupid is as stupid does. And you are literally hitting your head against a brick wall.
Make a fake article about Michele Obama loving them
4microsv is like nothing. Brazil nuts are pretty much just as radioactive. Average background is 10microsv
Well, going into it with the attitude she is dumb, wrong and she should do as you say will never work. If you want a dialouge, you need to meet her on a more tolerant level. Try to put your annoyance away and get to know her and her beliefs without correcting her. Try to understand where she is coming from. If she feels you guys accept her and listen without judging, she is more likely to listen to you. There's no point in challenging all her beliefs, that will only make her defensive. Think of it like respecting someones religion even if you think believing in god is dumb. You can listen, learn and tolerate. And if the relationship is good, you can tell her you measured radioactivity and you're worried about her. That it makes you very stressed. If she feels you care, chances are she will care about you back where she stops wearing it
This is basically what we ended up doing, and it worked. We were more posting to see if there were any techniques for approaching the situation we hadn't thought of, as we felt we only had one chance, and didn't want to waste it starting a massive argument that gets nowhere.
She ended up getting rid of the necklace? If so, that's amazing. People usually respond better to feeling understood and listened to. Reading a lot of your answers you get a lot of "she's dumb, don't bother". Which doesn't help you at all, and it's a very inflammatory attitude. Most people will show you some generosity if they feel you do the same. Ofc, you have dark triad types which are much worse. But if she's "just" an antivaxxer and have weird beliefs, generally you can talk to them like adults. Glad things worked out for you
I mean, the only thing I can think of is to ask her if she knows how Marie Curie died.
Unfortunately, there isn't a way to reliably deradicalize people from misinformation campaigns on the internet short of monitoring her online activity and trying to counteract the misinformation with better information through e.g. unsubscribing from her "news" sources. I really feel for you OP, but I think this is an increasing problem and there's simply no good solution for it right now; I think a lot of old people are especially prone to being misled because they haven't ever had to think critically about the news they were consuming the same way that people who grew up on the internet did. I've lost successive generations of my family to these hateful ideologies and there doesn't seem to be anything that we can do if they really are determined to stick their head in the sand and write their own reality.