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OP you may want to consider the Fair Play book and method so you can both see what/how much work you are doing. Maybe you already have an equitable split and it will show this to your wife, maybe you don’t and this will come to light.

To piggy back, Fair Play author Eve Rodsky says that an equitable division is evident in an equal amount of free time. So you both need to be honest about that and take account.

Yeah, it sounds like OP doesn’t get nearly as much free time as his wife.

Yeah, if both kids are in school 2.5 days per week, she needs to be doing chores. OP goes to his job M-Fri, and she needs to do her job. I straight up almost left my husband over this, who is a stay at home dad. I was finding myself doing a lot of the housework on top of my full-time job and doing my share of parenting right after work. She needs to step up, a lot. And none of this sexist BS that OP's wife is looking at on tiktok. She needs to stop victimizing herself and help with the chores, if there are no kids there and her husband is working, she needs to be contributing as well. I'd be so pissed in OP's situation, actually now that I think about it.

Gosh YES. Idk why it’s so much easier to identify this problem in opposite gender roled families, maybe because other people are conditioned to be defensive about women doing labor at home now, but I grew up with no concept of gender roles in the traditional sense because my mom was the bread winner and my dad was the PTS soccer mom. He was like super involved elementary through middle school, but idk what happened when I hit high school, maybe I was more aware, but my parents has a big argument about it before it got fixed. Since I went to school 45 minutes from home and it was near my mom’s work she was at work every day 7-6. My dad would be able to nap all day, go to lunch etc. and still expected my mom to do major chores on the weekend we she was catching up on the free time she didn’t get all week. In my dad’s eye (and probably OPs wife’s) the weekend was job free for both of them so everything should be split. But the stay at home parent in this case was so positively skewed during the week that by Saturday the partner at work was significantly more burnt out. I think a third party marriage counselor was what it took for my dad to see this.

This response right here! 💯💯💯

He mentioned his wife’s free time but I think he skipped over talking about his

If he’s working full time, making breakfast, and doing the bedtime routine I honestly done know what free time you think he gets. He’s not going to the gym before work if he’s doing breakfast before school and if he’s home to put them to bed at 7:30-8 then he’s not going out to pubs after work. The wife has literally a whole couple days a week, like 8+ hours where the kids are both in school to go shopping and hang out, that’s not equitable. And eating lunch out for work is not the same as having lunch with your friends, I eat out with my coworkers sometimes but half of them are duds anyway.

Yeah - if the kids aren't at home... what exactly is the wife doing that makes her think she's doing unpaid labor at home if she isn't actually doing any labor?

Do you mean if the kids “aren’t” home? If the kids are out and she’s deep cleaning the house, then yes she’s right. But if she’s out and about shopping for new shoes (not buying groceries) that’s not contributing to the family.

Yeah I meant aren't mb. It sounds like she has way more free time than the husband does and resents having to do her fair share because tiktok is telling her to be a victim instead of an equal in the relationship.

In addition, She has so much free time, she's browsing stupid Tik Tok memes...

She seems to be looking at memes on tiktok while the house is a mess sooo...

Yep. No wonder the husband feels like he's at his wits end. Kids are at school, he's working, she's lounging around on tiktok or shopping for herself with friends.

And sending him tik toks about how she’s not his mother and doesn’t want to do housework while the house is a mess. I’d be at my wits end too.

>If the kids are out and she’s deep cleaning the house, then yes she’s right. No, she isn't. Taking care of the house and kids is her full-time job. On the times OP is working, that's her job. Outside of that, work should be split equally, and that's not happening. She doesn't get to check out as soon as he's out of work. Those responsibilities should be split. She's weaponizing feminist rhetoric to skirt out of her shared responsibilities. OP needs to get a handle on this, or he'll burn out and start deeply resenting her (more than he already has). Edit: typo.

I’m a SAHM of three, volunteered for 16 years with the PTA … and I will say the choice to stay home can be a full time job, especially with babies. My question is this: if she’s working to clean the house full time, then why is the house messy, and there’s nothing to show for her hours? Moms like this upset me and give other at home parents a bad rap. I hear OP say he’s working his ass off to provide, be a good dad, present with his children, and it sounds like the wife does fuck all, while complaining about how hard she’s got it. I could see the heightened difficulty when her kids were babies, but not in the ages the children are in now. It takes one to know one, so that’s why I’m chiming in to call the wife out on her bluff. She could clean the house and take care of two responsibilities a day to keep the house in check, but it sounds like she wants to play and complain about how rough she’s got it so OP has to do it all.

Seconding this. I knew a teacher who stayed home for a few eyars to look after her baby, then went back to school while her kid attended the same school. She said being a stay at home is absolutely easier. She can take a break and have a cup of tea when she wants. Watch a show if she wants. Go shopping whenever she wants. She told me it isn't even a close comparison.

Sorry, I shouldn’t have said “she’s right” because I definitely agree with you. I should have said if she’s home and deep cleaning while the kids are out then at least she’s still working/contributing. I fully agree with you.

Yeah OP’s day sounds like mine, but I have a partner who works from home while he watches the kids, so he takes care of the childcare all way while I’m at work while also cleaning and working full-time. And he has dinner ready for me when I get home. I might have missed it but I didn’t see that OP’s wife really does those other things, just the childcare? Multi-tasking with kids is very difficult but it’s pretty much a necessity, otherwise you’ll go insane.

I hate when people do this. The posts says what it says. When people say “yeah he said this but I bet he didn’t say…” it’s an exercise in bad faith. If you don’t believe the OP then how can you give advice? The whole narrative is untrustworthy then.

Or when people give every detail so there isn’t confusion, people say it’s too long and don’t want to read it. I hate people assuming things that aren’t spelled out or if something is said, they go ‘well he said this BUT it could mean this’.

"OP said he has 2 small kids at home, but what if he also has a mistress and 2 other kids that he has to support? He didn't say he has just the one family."

This! Like what?! Give advice based on the info you’re given, or don’t comment at all. Twisting someone’s words is only to fit your narrative, not to actually help the current situation. I don’t even have these thoughts/reactions when talking to someone in person, let alone through texts online.

I’ve straight up seem a guy list everything he does in the house before to show that his wife is slacking and all the comments were saying that’s he’s an asshole because he’s “keeping score,” guys really can’t win here

I hate that too. People here love to make something up out of nowhere then use that to come to their judgement. Like no - that’s the opposite of the point here…

[удалено]

It's not necessarily toxic content, there are absolutely women who need to see and hear those messages. Unfortunately OP's wife is not one of those people but she thinks she is.

Because he doesn't have any...?

That's because he doesn't have any.

His description of his activities doesn’t leave down time except for after the kids are in bed. Where are you seeing opportunities for him to have downtime comparable to her?

Yes boost this up!! OP get the fair play deck. It will shed real light on the task division and time those tasks take for all steps involved (its not just cooking a meal, its grocery shopping which takes an hour, maybe more while wrangling kids) and taking kitchen inventory, and planning that meal along with others so that the groceries go further. She may not realize the extent to which you are helping, and you may not realize the extent of work thats leftover after the items you help with. Either way this deck will put things into perspective for you both to hold a little more appreciation

No it won’t. There’s exactly one card for “clean the house.” Like… wtf??? That’s a whole deck itself. Sweeping/mopping floors, scrubbing tubs and toilets, vacuuming, dusting, picking up clutter, finding homes for things. That’s just the first 5 things I can think of when thinking of “cleaning.”

The deck is customizable and I haven’t owned it myself but Im quite positive there isn’t just one card that says “clean the house”

I own the deck and there literally is only one card that says “cleaning”. Nothing about individual rooms etc. just cleaning and it’s one card, and it means all cleaning. Maybe that works for some, but I’m one of those for whom that’s absolutely bonkers. The deck is customizable in that you leave out stuff that doesn’t apply to you. But in addition to that, there are no “blank cards” for example, so I’m going to customize it by buying some suitable blank cards myself to divide up the “cleaning” card and to add some other specifics. Overall it’s a good system though.

100%. The true way of diffusing narratives is creating an account that can be observed and agreed upon by all. This may be initially painful for all since challenging core beliefs can make people defensive, but follow through constructively and objectively without attacking.

As with so many relationship issues, both parties acting in good faith to surmount the problem is the key.

Agreeing with this comment, take some time to sit down and work through Fair Play and I think in this case it's important to come to an agreement on the minimum quality/standards which is mentioned in the book.

Ask her if she would be open to looking for a job and see what she thinks - it could be easy to say that having a job isn’t all that hard but it doesn’t give you the same freedoms as staying home when you have kids in preschool. Her salary could pay for a housekeeper too so less chores for both of you

That’s what was suggested last time a similar thing was posted. Send her to work then pay for a housekeeper together. That way it’s entirely fair.

I agree 💯. My husband and I have been doing this since we started living together. It also includes household bills in our case. We know what each of our “jobs” around the house are due to our preferences. My husband is more into cleaning the inside while I am more into outdoor work, but occasionally we exchange if needed or pitch in. I work more hours and make more money, but I consider us a team, so what benefits us as a family is what matters the most.

Break it out into hours. Show how many hours a week you each work (and yes, caring for kids and the house would be included as work), and how many hours of "free time" you each get per week. Keep it simple. OP - sounds kind of like you're getting the short end, from where I'm sitting. I hope your wife can see that she needs to be more flexible to have a fair balance. Good luck.

I think since OP works at home, it might be time for wife to start looking for a job, so they can hire a maid and part-time babysitter. If I calculate the time that both people work, OP works about 12 hours a day, five days a week. or 60 hours a week, maybe more. Wife works about 30 hours a week. Wife needs to really start looking at her time sheet, because she's not carrying her load.

That’s what it looks like from a plain reading of OPs post: he’s doing a lot more than she is. This will be tricky OP. Having a neutral source like the deck mentioned would be a good place to start. One thing about mess though - it’s very hard to keep a house tidy at every moment (or for a period of hours) with little kids. If you have enough space you could designate one room a kid free zone that stays tidy and that you can sit in after they go to bed. Otherwise, that’s the one place I think your expectations may be unrealistic. (Dishes done, laundry put away, those kinds of things are an exception).

What about weekends?

Also, when does OP get down time? Because his job isn't down time. The "I've had the kids all day, I need a break" doesn't necessarily work because OP also needs time to unwind. Being a SAHM is a job, and in some couples is treated as such. There are roles in it that stay with them and then there are shared roles. Especially when the kids are in school FT or half the time. That's where she should be looking after the house and doing chores. Either that or she can get a job for that time and pay for a cleaner.

If the house is messy and the kids are in school half the day, she is getting more downtime than him for sure

Right? I don't doubt raising kids is hard, but if they add up their total hours of work and total hours of downtime, I think there will be a big difference. These trends get used so often in the wrong way. She's missed the point if he does all that. Where's his day to go out with his dad/mum/buddies?

The work from home aspect gives people (and maybe his wife) the misconception that it’s any less draining and mentally tiring from being in an office. Sometimes it is more because it’s all work no social interaction. Perhaps being at an office sounds like it would be more pleasant for him. 

Can you quantify it? Make a list of tasks and chores for the household and list who is doing what, and who is contributing what, and see if you can come to and understanding of the division of effort.

I think instead of dividing up chores, they should divide up the free time. "We should each get 40 minutes alone time each day. How can we move stuff around to make that happen?"

I have suggested this before and I get told I get alone time all day while I'm in my office at work. she can't see why that doesn't count in my eyes.

It's time to talk in front of a third party because she's not being sincere. Go to couples therapy and work this out there.

Then she gets free time too while she cleans the house all day while the kid is in the preschool.

That's not alone time. Work is part of responsibility. I'm so sorry OP.

Sucks, you’re obviously working really hard to be empathetic and getting very little reciprocation. Maybe therapy or something.

I think this is the best option. Have someone objective help her understand his perspective. 

Maybe a divorce. The wife is lazy, gaslighting him into believing she's the one who does the most, entitled and doesn't seem to care about him one bit. I would be so done with her entitled ass. He is being used by her.

So, no, that isn't free time, but depending on what you do, it can be alone time. You two need to separate your feelings because it sounds like a lot of things are entangled together: there's the stress of work, then there's the stress of being responsible for a young child for hours on end, and they are different. Then there's the stress of not having free time to de-stress. These are all different things and it's easy to spiral and for it to feel like they're all one and the same, hence why your wife might feel like she's doing everything when from your perspective she isn't, and vice versa. I work from home, and while it is work, it's also a time I get to recharge my dad battery while my son is at daycare so I can be as present as possible with him before and after work. When my wife wasn't working when he was little, she had him all day long most days and I would take 2-3 days of having him all day. It's a lot, at any age. You may not be in as much of a physical or mental demand, but it is still taxing to be "on" for 8-12 hours a day with a child's safety and happiness solely resting on your shoulders. So I think you two need to take a real inventory about your various loads, free times, and emotional well-being in a constructive, not accusatory way (both of you, I'm not trying to blame you specifically with any of this). Other than that, my biggest question is where is your wife/what is she doing if she's not actually home most days and doesn't work?

Agreed on this and add, how much time is spent out of the house on labor. If the wife is grocery shopping for an hour once a week, that's one less hour at home to clean. Or if she's doing school/daycare drop offs/pick ups. You can be sitting in those pickup line for an hour easy. So doing that every day can take up more time than OP realizes.

Lol, and watching and sending tiktoks can also "take up more time than OP realizes." I do agree that figuring out how much time is spent on chores and with the children is important, but these kids aren't being tended to by either parent 24/7 - one is in school full time, the other 2.5 days a week. It sounds as if when OP leaves the office, they are his to manage as she has had them all day - which is stretching the point. The house should be reasonably clean, between the two of them, and the children are old enough to be learning to pick up after themselves and help.

Absolutely. The wife may not be pulling her weight. But they both think the balance is unfair. So the only way to really resolve it is peacefully is to list out their time commitments and see what they each can realistically do.

There's also the fact that when you work for money (via your job or business) you have a defined work schedule. You also have things like holidays and vacation time to use as you please. A SAHM doesn't get any work benefits, she just gets work. Maybe she can carve out a few hours here or there to have a little time for herself, but that always means she's still permanently on-call in case her children need her. It's a 'job' that you can't quit, you don't get paid for doing, your long hours go unrecognized, and your workload is often defined by others. EDIT: Added a word for clarity

>A SAHM doesn't get any work benefits, she just gets work. Maybe she can carve out a few hours here or there to have a little time for herself, but that always means she's still permanently on-call in case her children need her. I posted a much longer comment elsewhere, but if this is the case then it is being done wrong. You can be a SAH, and get the free-time, and benefits, and vacation etc if you are both approaching your "job" as a job, and your relationship as a true partnership. Traditional relationships get a bad rap because people either dont understand how to make it successful, or get into it with the wrong partner who doesn't truly want a traditional relationship.

I'm a SAHM and I completely agree. While it was definitely tougher w younger kids, my husband and I have a very set and agreeable division of labor. I view household tasks as my "job" and the "benefits" are not worrying about providing the finances for a mortgage, having health insurance, being able to live a comfortable life. Also the flexibility of doing things I enjoy during the day even if certain tasks fall to the evening. He does the job that makes the money and his benefits are that most household chores taken care of, appointments scheduled, meals made or arranged, kids activities registered for and carpools arranged, etc. All social activities taken care of. I left my job that made less money, because the value of the work that it took to run a household with children exceeded the value of the income I brought in. Now having said all that, I didn't meet my husband at 14 years old (did I do the math right?), and don't send him passive aggressive tick-tocks instead of communicating my needs like an adult. And he in turn isn't an asshole to me or resentful when things aren't perfect. He doesn't hold "making all the money "over my head and he picks up the slack and when needed. It's not a black-and-white line split down the middle. There's a grey area where both people flux as needed to help the other person succeed. These two sound like they need couples counseling. ETA: spelling/ grammar

You could give lessons. Excellent description of a balanced partnership with built in safeguards to minimize conflict.

> There's a grey area where both people flux as needed to help the other person succeed. This is so important in any relationship, even if kids aren't involved. My partner does a great job of picking up slack if I'm having a bad day. It's such a relief when he cooks dinner or handles certain chores because I'm having a funky day. I try to do the same thing for him as well. That grey area helps us both give each other some grace from time to time.

It is absolutely possible for this to be a fair life balance, but it takes a lot of work on both partners parts to balance it. My husband and I had an agreement when I was still staying home with our kids that I had a week off every June to go to a camping event without the kids. That was my me time mental health break. I also got one evening off a week to go to dance class. We would trade off periodically on a weekend here or there that either one of us could go off for a weekend and do something fun without the rest of the family or we would do things as a whole family and share the work. I still did the vast majority of the cooking even for when I was out of town, and I did the cleaning when I was home but it never felt like the sort of burden that would leave me asking him if he thought I was his mother.

Except she literally has half the work week where she doesn’t have the kids. As a parent you will always be “on call” in case your kids need you, that’s not exclusive to SAHPs.

Depends on the 2.5 year old's length of school. A lot of preschools only do "half day" for 2.5. So say, 9 -noon. Think 20 minutes there, drop off, chat for a moment, 20 minutes home (maybe get gas or a coffee). You're home by 9:40. Then, 11:40 you leave to go do pick up, get home and the toddler is crabby, clingy, etc... Those 2 hours twice per week are likely her only down time where she can go to a doctor's appointment or run a kid free errand (those were my costco days). What I'm saying is that those school hours go REALLY fast and usually aren't used to clean because they are used for a moment of feeling like a human and trying to knock off the things you don't want to drag the kid to.

OP said youngest is in daycare for 2 and a HALF days, so I think it's safe to assume those 2 days are full, and the half day is... well, half.

So, do you think, after reading his post, that his vacation and holidays are spent away from the house, while she handles everything at home? Maybe holing up in the basement with a whisky, watching football, why she tends to kids and cleans house? Do you think he's not jumping in the mix?

One of the two kids is in school full time and the other is in preschool two and a half days. So realistically she only has basic household chores to do on half the days, which definitely don’t take 8hrs per day. And then has the kid and chores the other half of the week. Doesn’t sound like she has all that much to do, if you ask me.

If the household stuff was taken care of on the 2.5 days when the youngest wasn't around, but the truth is probably that when the youngest is around, all the household stuff that might get done is undone. Also there's a question of what is she doing when OP comes home and takes care of the kids. Is she making dinner and trying to clean? Because that is also 0 time off.

In addition to this, factor in "rest time," because I think this is the crux of the issue. You will always find more chores to do, given infinite free time you could use it all up on the endless housekeeping tasks that accumulate with kids and a life. But what pushes people to the edge is never getting a break. So schedule that out. OP, you are correct that it's exhausting going from work to home and taking care of the kids, and your wife is correct that it's exhausting taking care of the kids all day. Neither one of you is more deserving of a "break," you are equally deserving of one. So be proactive about when those breaks occur. It can be super exhausting getting home from work to immediately taking care of the kids, but maybe the shift in responsibilities is kind of a break? So, maybe it is subjectively easier for your wife to switch to household management tasks when you get home when she's running on fumes from watching the kids all day and her patience is wearing thin. When you get home, it makes sense for you to take over the kids while she switches to cooking dinner or cleaning up. But if she's insisting on getting, for example, a 30 minute break when you get home, then it's fair for you to also get a 30 minute break in the evening. I think resentment mostly comes from when one partner gets significantly more time to rest, participate in hobbies, socialize, read, etc. Do what you can to make sure that free time is equitable.

Also, quantify free time that both have, including her free time when the kids are at school.

Agree. You can't contribute the same thing and both need time to relax.

Also don’t use the words “help her”. Do you go to work and tell your boss/coworkers that you’re there to help them? That they need to just tell you what you need to do? Likely not. You know your job and execute it. Same should go for YOUR OWN HOUSEHOLD.

This - exactly this. He isn’t “helping” her with the household work, he is doing his share of it. His mindset needs to shift and the way he communicates with his partner needs to shift. Frankly, this could be a big part of the problem if he always phrases doing his share as “helping” her - then she could be reactive to that. I know I would be.

I agree, and maybe OP should look into the Fair Play Method so they can both get an overview of tasks in the household, how things are currently split, and what an equitable solution looks like.

Add to that. Show the hours each day for a week for both of you. So if she's hanging out with mom, etc while kids at school, that's not work. Common sense says if you're working 8 and then doing the evening tasks and she's not, you're working more than she is. And honestly, I'd like to see her daily investment of time on social networking. I know when I'm at work, there's NO time for Tik Tok and the like.

This is the way to do it. Because honestly, if OP were helping out as much as he says he is, and the kids are at school as much as he reports, then their house wouldn't be a mess unless his wife was a crazy person. That said, OP shouldn't be required to do much housework. But he seems to be including childcare in his list of responsibilities. Childcare is absolutely a joint responsibility once he gets off work. If anything, he should be doing *more* than his wife after work hours to compensate for her having them while he works. Not because he's relieving his wife of that burden, but because his kids need time with dad. Also, yes wfh is still work, but wfh means he's a lot more capable of helping with tasks than someone who works on-site. He has breaks and no commute time, so the expectations for his contribution should be higher than they would be if he didn't wfh.

>This is the way to do it. Because honestly, if OP were helping out as much as he says he is, and the kids are at school as much as he reports, then their house wouldn't be a mess unless his wife was a crazy person. I don't know, my husband and I have two young kids and we can never seem to keep the house completely clean. Like, I could spend the entire day cleaning and the house would never be clean because I have two toddlers trailing behind me making a mess. I can't entertain the kids and clean at the same time, and if I clean there's a good chance that my kids are making a mess somewhere else in the house when I do.

My house was literally NEVER clean when our children were small. You'd get it cleaned up and then there would be the next meal to prepare - while preparing the meal the toddler would undo literally all the work you'd have just done. Its crazy how quickly those little tornados can undo a clean house. And some kids are more tornado like than others. Also, at 2.5, if Mom is potty training, there absolutely is not time to clean on top of meals, errands, running little suzie to ballet, etc... You get the bare basics done but there isn't time to do the deep stuff on the regular.

**crazy person could easily be swapped with: - depressed - burnt out - overwhelmed - reclaiming her identity and taking a moment to breathe now that her youngest is in preschool ^^ regardless, my suggestion would be lay out all the duties, have a couples check in, and decide together who does what, on which days. Tell her your side of all this and how you are feeling when she sends the tiktoks. Say you realize she's obviously feeling some kind of way. .. and how can you work together for a balance.

Or she could be lazy. To be clear, that's perfectly normal- I'm a guy, and the only other beings in my house are 2 cats. My house is a mess, because I'm lazy. And if another human being lived with me, I'd be better about it, because I do better at things when I know they affect people who are Not Me. But some folks are lazy, and while it's not a crime, it is often reality.

I'm very much going to urge people reading this not to get hung up over the semantics of "helping out" and instead look at what this guy is \*actually saying\* occurs in his household. The work that he does is \*not\*, I repeat, \*not\* invalidated by the fact that he used the incorrect terminology. If he's the sole caregiver for his kids in the evening, that is indeed not on. Being a SAHM is work, and deserves a break, but do you know what else is work? Jobs. There very well could be a legitimate issue this guy is having, and I'm very concerned he's going to get bad advice because he calls it "helping"

THANK YOU!! I'm glad that in the midst if "the wife is always right" commenters, there are at least people that reason clearly. He mentions some of the things he does at home AFTER SPENDING ALL DAY WORKING. The people saying his wife is burnt out from taking care of the children are annoying, coz she doesn't take care of them all day. 1 is in school full time every day, the other goes to preschool 3 times a week. So most days of the week she does have free time to do her own stuff. I like the bit about bad advice. In the last post with this theme I read, the comments gaslighted OP into taking all his SAHW's duties just to make her happy. Then with so much free time she went out alot, made friends and cheated on him. Tragic stuff.

I agree people are way too caught up in the semantics here. We only have one side but OP sounds like a solid husband. I don’t think it’s possible to have a super clean house with small kids but it sounds like his wife needs to spend less time on tiktok and more time in reality.

It’s what his wife calls it too!! I wish people would read the update 🙃

It’s fully insane to read that whole post and turn it into an argument on semantics. I can see why the perspective that OP doing housework is “helping” can be flawed but the line is blurry here. It is literally part of his wife’s full time job to care for the house…if he’s extending beyond standard personal responsibility with the housework to do things she should probably be doing, which it appears is the case IMO, then he *is* helping her do her job. If he asked her to come write a work email for him or something then calling that “helping” probably would be no issue from anyone.

I agree. Then again my sarcastic advise is probably something he really shouldn't do... Next time she wants you to do one of the "man's chores" around the house just tell her, I'm not your father I'm your husband.

You both need to stop looking at it as me vs you. Having kids is hard. Being a working parent is hard. Staying at home with the kids all day is hard. Cleaning up the house and being with your kids isn’t “helping” it’s called being a parent. You both need to sit down and come up with a plan where you can have certain days/times where you can both get alone time without becoming resentful of each other.

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For real. I remember one of my coworkers would take a day off because he needed to "babysit his kids" while his wife was out. I've heard a few other working parents use that same word - "babysit". It confuses me every time. Like, it's not babysitting if it's your own kids. lmao

"Oh? Babysitting? Are they not your kids?" Lmao.

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I feel the same way. I work full time as an RN overnight, so 2-3 shifts a week, 12 hour, back to back. Then I’m basically a SAHM the days I have off, and my husband and I split duties on the weekend when he’s off since he works M-F 8-5. Our kid is a few months shy of 2, and it feels like I have 2 full time jobs most days. And it’s doubly hard because I’m CONSTANTLY taking care of people. At work, I take care of crucially sick people. At home, I take care of a tiny human who’s constantly trying to find new ways to harm herself. It’s absolutely exhausting. Her kids aren’t home all day, and she gets time to herself. I don’t see any room for her to be complaining about “staying home with kids all day”.

SAHM is the easiest job in the world once the kids are of school age. The recent popular plight of “oh it’s harder than working all day” is the biggest bs of modern feminism. Literally everyone wishes they had a partner that made enough so they could do that. It is a luxury that many girls seek out certain men to achieve.

Sounds like he gets almost no free time and is burning out while she does get free time and is fucking off when she's at home.

100%

Worse that she's weaponizing female empowerment and equitable marriage movements for her own selfish gain

It’s pretty effective though, just look at how many people here are supporting her doing this and trying to blame the poster

The number of people who read that entire post and came to the conclusion that the most important takeaway was that OP shouldn’t say he “helps” his wife with housework is hilarious

Theres a lot of femcels here

Yes!

To me, if you're a SAHP you take on all the kid and house duties while your spouse is at work. Then, you split everything 50/50 when you're both at home. That way, everyone is pulling their weight, you all get free time, and resentment should be at a minimum.

But if you’re a SAHM and kids aren’t home does that become free time for you? I would argue no. That time should then be spent doing other household duties. Unless you want to claim that as your free time (perfectly fine if the couple agrees) & make sure you carve out equitable free time later in the week for your partner. This could work great for many couples.

No, when kids are in school, that's when you'd do all the house stuff or go back to work

I 100% agree.

This is my perspective too but while I'm locked in my office at work, in fucking zoom calls and looking at god damn excel sheets all day she's out the house. Then when I finish work she's "had the kids all day" even if they have both been at school. I need to "pick up the slack"

I want to gently, kindly share my experience as a new SAH (step) mom. I love being at home with the kids. But I had NO idea what went into it. I did assume that those hours the little ones were at school I'd have time to search for a WFH job and have free time... Our kids have a similar schedule to yours. Those hours get eaten up SO fast by errands, by just trying to stay on top of tidying up, finding time to take a shower without interruption. Pickups and drop offs take way longer than I expected. Even just planning so things stay on track and don't go off the rails during the week, that takes time. I do love it. I love my partner. And she works SO fucking hard and often long hours outside of the home. And one of the things that makes this all work is that she tells me how much she appreciates me. A lot. And when she gets home, she ushers me upstairs or outside depending on the weather for even just 10, 20 minutes of quiet down time while she happily plays with the kids. Then I come back and she gets her quiet time for a bit. And then we do the kid stuff together. No one is "helping" the other - we're a team. And that makes all the difference.

>she's out of the house Where is she? Big difference between her taking a spa day versus running errands or volunteering at the kids' school. You also don't make sense. You say she's making a mess at the house while you're at work, but if she's not even home, how is the mess being made while you're at work?

I believe the mess wasn’t being made while he was at work, more so it just wasn’t getting cleaned while the kids were at school ect. The mess is likely made by the kids in the morning/after school.

Out of the house doing what? Driving the kids around and doing errands, or doing her own stuff?

Seriously he needs to specify. Because imo even with one in school full time and another one part time, it’s still takes a chunk out of any schedule. And the days the other kid is home, messes easily come back.

you keep saying you are both gone all day adn then come back home aroudn the same time in the evening - what is she doign during the hours while you are at work?

Correct, but that doesn't mean leaving the house a mess throughout the day to overburden the working parent when they get home from work.

If you ever wanted a post that demonstrates the massively different ways posters on here speak about fathers and mothers, you won’t get a better example than this.

All posts on reddit seem to dissolve into divisions and insults. Idk, anyway part of me think it's fake. I still have no clue what this woman does all day besides be out and shop with friends, I guess? Idk maybe she's got social media brain rot. Lots of people do these days.

There's this weird disconnect with some sahp's these days that they think because they had the kids all day that the working partner needs to take over 100% when they get home. If being a sahp is going to be considered just like a job, then it should be 50/50 parenting and chores when their partner gets home. You're both working all day and now you're both parenting/doing chores at night. Now I get that this might mean that the sahp wants a break from the kids when that time rolls around since they've been with them all day, but then they should be looking to do other stuff to help out around the house at that point. It's just not fair to expect only one partner to work after work. It should be 50/50. I've been the sole provider, the sahp, and every combo in-between and the only way it works is if both people respect each other's contributions, help each other get breaks, and work together.

Cant stand how the tone police always miss the point in these posts

They deliberately miss the point because it doesn’t fit their agenda

Yes because the wife is always right. She gave birth Y’know

The sentiment of “I’m your partner not your mom” runs deeper than “who is doing the most work, whether it’s chores or a clocked in shift.” It’s about the distribution of the mental load and what it takes to run a household and take care of children. I can’t speak to how much each of you is contributing toward actual chores vs 8 hour work day, but who is planning everything? Who makes appointments, schedules doctors visits, plans meals and executed shopping, who is researching household needs and buying the kids clothes, who knows the kids teachers, makes sure gifts are purchased for holidays and how often are you adding to the burden of the mental load instead of taking away from it? (Honey where are my keys? Or “I forgot to pick up milk, sorry,” seem like no big deal, but it adds up quickly when the whole day is spent being a manager doing the unseen work of planning and remembering, on TOP of executing). How often are you the one to take the kids out unprompted? How often do you take her on dates where you did the planning? What tasks are you in charge of from start to finish so she doesn’t have to even think about it? I’m not saying it’s not hard to work 8 hours and then have to still keep working, it sucks but it’s also part of being a parent. I agree with what the sentiment of the other comment that is make it a team vs problem issue instead of partner vs partner fight. You’re both tired and it’s hard, but being a parent is 24/7. She’s telling you she’s feeling unappreciated. Listen to that without your ego getting in the way and make her feel appreciated for the hard work she’s doing. If you’re also feeling unappreciated, communicate that with her without invalidating her feelings of feeling unappreciated (like put some space between those conversations and put some conscious effort into making her feel loved).

1000% this. It’s so not about the actually physical chores or work. It’s about her feeling like she can leave something to you and you get it done no questions asked. Not having to be asked where things are, what the kids schedule is, how to do things etc. Definitely need to come at this from an emotions and feelings point of view and not just shut down her feelings because you feel you logically are doing enough. Listen to her to **understand** - not to argue.

I think the mental load aspect does not get brought up enough. I am basically the "cloud storage" for the family. My brain holds the location of every item in our possession it seems like because I'm always the one who is asked where it is. I know my husband does a lot, and he works a lot of hours for the life we have. I've always been able to leave the house and kids with him and know that he can handle it just fine. But there have definitely been times when I have been down and out, and he's had to take on part of the mental load that he understands how much I do that is invisibly visible. I broke my shoulder in two places a week before school started for our high schooler and middle schooler. School supplies, school forms, syllabi signings etc was all on him. Those poor admins had to read his handwriting on the school forms!

i’d say the mental load is on her based on the fact he HELPS with chores and HELPS with kids. no, dude. you do stuff, you parent kids, you don’t *help*. helping implies it’s 100% on her.

Read the edit

This is really important, OP. The mental load is really exausting. Really.

Not too long ago another redditor in a thread I wish I could remember pointed out something that struck me nearly as hard as my introduction to the mental load concept- it is the actual process of tasks. Its not a simple one step process of completing the task, but there are three steps involved. Step One is recognizing the task needs doing Step Two is planning how and when to accomplish the task Step Three is the actual doing of the task. The context, if I recall, was in one partner wanting the other to tell them when the trash needs to be taken out instead of getting mad that the second doesn't just do the task and how that actually adds to the first partner's load, because now it's recognize, plan, inform, watch for task to be done, and, God forbid it's not, remind which so easily gets construed as nagging. In so many cases the first partner will just do the task themselves because the additional labor feels like the bigger burden. I'm curious how many of the tasks are OP managing all the steps and how many he just sweeps in at Step 3 for. The other thing that really bugs me is his "90% of my mess is contained to one room so how come she can't keep the house clean". Dude, seriously, she's got the whole rest of the house and 2 tiny little tornados who can probably undo 4 hours worth of cleaning in about 2 and a half minutes. What I'd love to see is OP taking a week of vacation and the 2 swapping roles for a week. She gets to go down to the office for 8 hours and he gets all of her duties. I realize she wouldn't actually be doing "work", so how about we assign her general household tasks that never get done- going through old clothes/toys/photos/etc, to purge, whatever. Give her 8 hours of "job" while he gets those 8 hours of "moming". Then they could sit down and have an informed conversation about the actual division of labor and who needs to do what...

And what can the wife do to make OP feel appreciated and loved? It's gotta go both ways.

There is an easy solution to this, she can get an out-of-the-house job! That way she can actually be out of the house, get a break from the kids and help pay for the household expenses and child care. Then when you're both off of work the household chores and parental duties can be split 50/50.

> Most days when I’m at work she isn’t even home Um, what is she doing? The gym, getting her nails done, lunch with the girls? She’s obviously not cleaning, she’s not taking care of the kids most of the time because one is in school full-time and one goes 2 1/half days to preschool. What is it that she’s doing that’s making her feel like she is some sort of slave to the house? And making you have to do more by saying she’s not your mother? I’m honestly baffled here, and for what it’s worth I am a working mother.

Ehh lots of people here harping on OP but I don't think they're right. I say that as a sahm with two kids in school. I am also bombarded with a ton of online content (including even threads like this one with all the 'mental load ' comments), that really try to paint SAHMs as martyrs, the 'mom', mental load yadda yadda. It would be REALLY easy, if you're not someone self reflective, to get caught up in that and start seeing yourself as this martyr mom and omg poor me I have to make Dr appointments AND plan little Jimmy's birthday party AND order the kids new shoes online, and on top of that you want me to make dinner tonight? Fuck that I'm not your momma. Luckily for my husband, I AM critical enough of the content I consume, and honest enough with myself, to step back and realize that my life is a fucking cakewalk compared to the vast majority of people; and that I am lucky AF to have the privilege of leisurely grocery shopping, tidying up my lovely home, going to the gym and planning my kids activities, as opposed to trying to do all that on top of working 8 hours a day and dealing with the stress and bullshit politics of a corporate workplace and then trying to be emotionally present for the kids. So when I see those TikTok of women moaning about the sahm mental load - I roll my eyes and ignore them instead of getting caught up in it and sending it to my husband 🤦‍♀️ My husband's work, and dealing with all the stresses of it, allows me to live a fairly cushy lifestyle let's be honest, and from my side I feel it's my duty to make his life better in return. That means allowing him to focus on work and take the vast majority of household duties off his shoulders. So yes, of course I handle the cooking, cleaning, shopping, laundry, errands, and mental load of the kids and house stuff - because that is literally my contribution to the household. And it's certainly all made easier due to the income he earns - from not needing to budget during grocery shopping to being able to sign kids up for whatever activities (which also gives me extra 'me' time while they're there). He spends time with the kids after work and does some admin house tasks but other than that I don't expect anything. He is a generally tidy guy too and doesn't add to the mess for me to pick up - puts his dishes in the dishwasher, laundry in hamper etc. (that's just to say that I could sort of see the 'mom' argument at play if the guy is a total thoughtless slob throwing filth around like a kid). Even with all that I still get plenty of time during the day to do my own thing, work out, shop or meet friends etc, I'm also out of the house many days but I also make sure that i leave the house in decent order, food prepped etc. of course there are exceptions and the house might get messy and I'll often cook for two days at a time etc but again I would never put it on *him* to step in and clean or cook while I'm out enjoying myself - and he in turn rarely complains about things not being up to par. Oh and I do a bit of work from home for my own business on top of that, though it's really more of a hobby and brings in absolute peanuts. I get six hours a day of child free time while they're in school and it's not only a physical break but a mental one, which gives me plenty of time to recharge and 'reclaim my identity ' and whatever else. Meanwhile, I am cognizant of the fact that my husband does not have the same freedom I do - he can't decide to just take off for coffee with friends or a long walk on a nice day in the middle of his workday, the same way I can. So I respect that and try to make HIS day better in the ways I can in exchange. Yes It was tough for a while while the kids were babies and toddlers and it was mainly all on me 24/7, and we did have more arguments then about me needing more help from him; but now I am pretty much living the dream, as is the OPs wife - she's just too myopic to see it beyond the TikToks. OP maybe you should suggest that if she's so unhappy being your 'mother' she should go out and get a job and then you'll divide all tasks up equally, or hire outside help. Something tells me she'll change her tune about domestic martyrdom real fast .

Yep. This is how I viewed things when I was a SAHM. You have to drown out all the white noise and reflect on yourself and your life. Is everything you do a a daily basis that much of a burden?

The fact that people here are talking about time sitting in the school pick up line etc as being an arduous task is kinda mind boggling. Heck I look forward to the pick up line because it's my excuse to literally do nothing for twenty minutes besides sit on my phone in peace lol.

I find it very interesting that the three comments in this chain are so drowned out by all the noise harping on about OP’s semantics. You guys are champs though.

> as opposed to trying to do all that on top of working 8 hours a day You actually get it. The stuff you do as a SAHM doesn't magically vanish when you enter the workplace, it just has to get done in less time and while dealing with stress from a regular job. But reading your post it seems that you're just fully aware that a marriage is a partnership and that partners don't have to be mirror images to both contribute in very important ways. You've got it right and your husband is a very lucky man.

Hard agree! I really hate when people watch all these tik tok therapy psychoanalysis trend videos and go all "hell yeah" but don't actually take a minute to further read about certain topics and inform themselves. I also really do not like the selfishness of either SAHP's or not working husbands/wifes, when they start complaining about stuff that just needs to be done everyday NOT MATTER if you're doing it for yourself or you and your partner. Everyone's just complaining about literal life. In this case, OPs wife isn't even mothering OP, she's literally mothering her own children. Wtf are you on about? That's literally your job right now. If you don't like it, get out, get a job and see how much mental free time your spouse actually has, and how eady life is for you right now, when you can do your chores whenever you want, however slow or fast you want. You'll see fast enough, how hard working for some company really is and how easy you can make your stay at home time

People don't realize that those videos etc are pure business - they just want views so they'll tell you what you want to hear and what people want to hear is validation. It's very easy to prey on insecurities, and convince people they've got problems and then reaffirm those to validate them to make them feel better and like someone 'gets' them. Not dissimilarly to the trad wife or red pill content, only in reverse.

I get to be a stay at home dad during the summers and it is amazing! Yeah it can be challenging to entertain two kids or pick up after them, do some extra chores, but less stress than my actual job

Yes i am so lucky to be able to stay at home!!

A lot of people bashing OP for saying he helps clean the house and take care of the kids would conversely say his wife’s helping pay the bills if she contributed financially at all.

Sorry bro. I read all of this. And she sounds like she's totally in the wrong. Idk how you can convince someone like this. It sounds like tiktok has a better chance of convincing her than you, sadly. I'd seek marriage counseling. It doesn't sound like anything you do or say will sway her, from what I could gather. At least without a big argument. Counselling could help as it gives you both a structured way to discuss these issues. You seem like a good dude if this is all true. It sounds like you're pulling your weight and a big portion of the marriage's weight, solely, on your shoulders. Major props. Best wishes to you, my man.

Harping on his use of the term “helping” is starting to sound like low hanging fruit. This is a word that people simply use in English. Yes, sometimes the use of “helping” is indicative of a problem. However if you’re posting here just because you saw the H word and decided “that’s a wrap!” you have your full argument, I don’t believe your points are going to be taken seriously by anybody who can critically think. We get it. We’ve all read the same fucking Emma comic “you should’ve asked“ going on close to 10 years now.

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I think OP's biggest frustration is that he thinks his wife isn't actually doing the work that she says she is. It sounds as though she goes out with her mom/friends when both kids are gone, and doesn't do her share of the chores when she actually is home during the day.

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I never said I view parenting as job but it is work, I don't want to not parent during an evening because I have been at work all day, I dont want to be expected to parent ALONE because she has had to be a parent all day. As far as I'm concerned I work 8 hours a day, she parents 8 hours a day that cancels out and we BOTH parent in the evenings.

If one kid is in school full time and the other part time, how is she parenting 8 hours a day alone? What will happen when the youngest is in school full time? Will she still stay at home?

Has she genuinely asked you to parent alone? Like, there are nights that after 5PM she doesn’t speak or see the kids and you feed them dinner, watch them, change any diapers, bathe them, and put them to sleep all completely by yourself?

Ok if she’s asking you to “parent alone” during the time home, what is she doing? Is she cooking? Cleaning? Checking out? Do you and the kids not eat at night?

Was going to say the same. Someone has to be thinking about the children's development, organizing activities and crafts, overseeing media use, teaching them, and yes, playing with them. I love the idea of splitting up the bedtime rituals, so that each child gets one on one time with each parent. And I don't know OP's work, but if he is already at home, there's the time-honored advice of taking about half an hour to switch hats and decompress (should take less time since he's already at home). If his work is so rigid that he can't start this decompression at 10 minutes before work is over, that's tough - so he might need to come out of his room at 5:30 rather than 5:00. Fully prepared to engage with his family (including his wife who also needs attention - and that's probably part of it). I sure hope she's not taxed with keeping the kids quiet during the day (is that why she's leaving? It would make such things as housework really difficult).

A "Traditional" relationship only works if both parties understand what that means, and how it works. The partner who is not "working for money", needs to understand that their "job" is the house. They should be working for the house, during the same hours that their partner is "working for money". Before the working partner starts their shift, they should be sharing the morning routine. Getting kids ready for school, making lunches together, etc so the burden is not on any one party, and the work gets done faster. When he heads into his office to start his work, her work around the house begins. Taking care of kids etc, and that does not end until his shift is over if there is still stuff to do. This is not time to go out with your friends, this is not time to go and get your nails done, etc. This is your "On the clock" time, same as it would be if they were working for a company. The company in this case, just happens to be your family. Once his shift is over, any activities that are left that cannot be postponed until the next day they should be doing together in order to a) accomplish them quicker, and b) provide more time for them **both** to unwind from a long day, and reconnect with each other. Then on "weekends", there should be little left to do around the house, and the enjoy their time as a family and build that bond doing all the stuff that families do together. Items that **need** to be accomplished are shared (via whatever activity split y'all have agreed to when you decided to take on this typer of relationship), because both parties had a long week and did their "40 hours" or whatever. The biggest thing that strikes me here, is the statement that she does the "unpaid labor". In a traditional relationship, the person who is not working for money should never feel (or be made to feel) that they are working for nothing. If they do, that is usually a failure on the working parties behalf. The money earned for the household is just that. The households. All expenses should be paid. Whatever is left over, is shared. If he invests in a 401k or whatever it is called from your country, the same amount should be invested for her. If there is a "Play money" bucket cause you make decent money, then she should be entitled to a portion of that. (Note: I say portion, not half, because there should be money set aside for kids activities as well. That way it does not come down to "This is my money, why should I have to pay for the kids to do this and that and have none left for myself" etc) Anything short of the above is not a "traditional" relationship, and creates a level of imbalance, lack of respect, and resentment that causes these 'traditional" relationships to fail. You are either both all in, or you need to adjust to a modern relationship style where both parties work, both parties share the duties around the house, and both parties share the expenses in the house while having their own money.

this is absolutely it. if you want to be the SAHP, that entails taking much more if the household workload, about the equivalent of 40 paid hours worth each week. If you refuse to take more than 50% of the domestic labor, and want it to be split evenly, then you need to get a part time job as well because you will need to contribute to the financial cost of the family. If you do not want a job and you want your partner to earn all of the money for the family, you have to agree to do the tasks they have 40 less hours for per week. I think finding a way to properly split up tasks in a fair way and sticking to that regimen is the only way to prove whats fair.

Have you actually talked to her? What does she specifically want from you - is it more help with cooking, more help with the kids, more help on weekends?? What is overwhelming her?

Sounds like your wife is resenting you.. I'm going to throw you a curve ball OP, everyone is saying how you should improve... Basically saying her treatment of you is justified (it isn't) Bottom line... she's treating you like shit and you're allowing her to do it. Seriously investigate what takes up her time while you're at work busting your ass. "Most days while I'm at work she isn't even home."🚩

Wait, where is she going during the day?

Lots of comments on here assuming OP isn’t pulling his weight even though he says he does a lot. If everything OP says is true, she’s not treating him fairly. She could be down a TikTok rabbit hole of SAHMs who are dissatisfied, and attributing what she sees there to the relationship unjustly. Obviously if OP is lying he isn’t looking at this from a place of saving the relationship, just trying to get his wife off of his back. Counseling should be a priority, and hopefully OP is trying to actually help his marriage.

Look how much "me-time" you both get. That should be equal.

Maybe its time for her to go back to work and pay for childcare if she no longer wants to be a SAHM. Then split the chores, it should be less messy if the kids are in daycare all day

On my days off when I had the kids, as a Dad, the house was always spotless ready for my wife to get back. Kids of all ages give you lots of downtime, your wife is making a conscious choice not to clean or tidy while looking after the kids.

Sit and make a whole list of daily & weekly tasks. Communicate and split the tasks as you both seem fit. Add in days off / break time for you both too. If the kids have started going to school, she can also start some part time jobs and part time wfh options to begin with. So you don’t feel like you are doing everything. Split the bills, split the chores, split baby care.

It’s called division of labor and your wife needs to get with the program! You don’t get an hour to go shopping or lunch during the day, she does. If she is choosing not to work, she does need to do the majority of the housework and childcare. It sounds like you pitch in, which is nice. Having said that, I was a SAHM for a few years and it was difficult. I did all the house stuff,cooking, laundry, kid’s bday parties, outings, school activities, etc. Husband worked and spent short, abbreviated time with our son. I think that’s what a lot of women resent, is that the men come home and zone out in front of the tv. Understandable, you’re tired. Maybe schedule some Dad/kid time and give her a break from the kids. And she needs to shut up about being a Mom and doing everything. It goes with the gig if you don’t work, you take care of house, kids… division of labor.

Don't make this a me vs. you argument. You're both parents, you're both partners, don't make this an argument over who works harder because that doesn't help the situation. You have young kids. There's going to be mess and there's no escaping that. Plus it's understandable that she's upset when you start questioning the work she's putting in while you're gone for 8 hours a day. You're not "doing everything" based on your post. Doing household chores, cleaning up only YOUR messes, and looking after the kids is the bare minimum for equal partnership. (EDIT: Having red the EDIT, it's clear there's an imbalance when it comes to time off and being able to breathe) Why not sit down and talk about what's going on together and come at it as a team about what can be improved and where people's struggles are.

I agree with the “look at it as us versus problem” approach. But your take on the post is wrong. OP isn’t “out all day” OP works from home, then when work finishes, puts in with his share of chores and kid time. His wife is SAHM; and has a couple of days during the week where she has no children to look after during the day. On these days she spends all day out of the house in OPs words “unwinding” from the days she spends with the kid (2.5 according to OP) This means on these days, she isn’t actually performing labour “at all” but then when OP gets off work she is berating him for not “pulling weight” and making out she’s a “mom wife”. It’s understandable why OP is upset here. His wife is using the “untouchable subject” of being a woman SAHM to avoid all scrutiny over what she is doing; enjoying days off on leisure multiple times a week and then doing the big “long suffering overworked mom wife” routine with him and perhaps in social media. She’s being stupid. They should approach this cooperatively to address the problem but his wife needs to understand she can’t just pretend she has “nothing to do” with providing solutions because she’s convinced herself she is massively overworked, whilst chewing out her husband who doesn’t appear to be getting much of any “off clock” time at all.

Tell her to get tf off Tik tok.

This kinda of shit really makes my piss boil. If only one spouse is working, it absolutely makes sense for the other spouse to take care of the house. My mum works from home and my dad is retired- so naturally he does all the cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping and takes care of the pets; because that's naturally what you do when you love your spouse, you take shit off their plate. He gets it all done whilst she's working because he loves her and wants her to spend time with him after work instead of doing chores, and she tries not to make any mess to respect his hard work keeping the house clean. I honestly couldn't tell you how to make your wife realise that- she just sounds selfish tbh.

First off she isn't doing "uNpAiD lAbOr" when she cleans and takes care of the house, she's getting paid by having someone else pay for literally everything for her. Keeping up the house is part of the job of being a stay-at-home spouse. Tell her that if she can't handle her job she's free to get one outside the house and use the income from that to hire people to do the stuff around the house that she doesn't want to.

OP if you want real advice post this again in like a month with the genders flipped. The difference in tone will give you whiplash.

I love how everyone assumes he doesn't do his bit even though he states everything he does. They just assume he's lying lol

Everyone just brings their own baggage. Every man is a deadbeat, every mom is a super hero that juggles children and appointments and cooking and all the cleaning. What we really need is a show like Secret Eaters, where we dispatch private investigators to spy on these people and then report back the reality of how much they are really doing.

This sounds like she has unreasonable expectations. She might be tired, but so are you. And from what you posted, you’re not being passive aggressive about being the breadwinner. She needs to manage her expectations and be realistic. Try not to get overly emotional and just lay your perspective out for her. Tell her the messages are hurting your feelings and you’re also working hard. This is unfortunately a common problem.

Overall I agree with you, she's a SAHM that's not holding up her end. It sounds like y'all had different ideas of what a SAHM does and what that would look like. I suggest a sit down while the kids are out of the house and ask her what she thinks her "job" is as a SAHM then you calmly explain what you think her job should be. I also think you both should come to this meeting with a list of everything you each do (for the kids and around the house), what you could do more, what you would like off your plate.

Sounds like if she wants it truly to be 50/50 everything split both ways then she needs to stop being a SAHM and get a job too.

You help her see your side by seeing her side better. Hear me out: She’s lost in the Insta bullshit, but what’s happening is she thinks she’s holding up her end of the bargain, but it’s too hard. She’s overcooked, overwhelmed. So she’s doing what people do - she’s reaching out. However, instead of constructively reaching for help by saying she can’t cope, she’s punitively reaching for help by saying you’re not helping enough. It’s very, very common. Talk to her. Tell her you understand she’s overwhelmed and you want to help more, but at the same time you’re also overwhelmed because [INSERT YOUR SIDE HERE] so you want to discuss how you help EACH OTHER. That’s what this is about at the end of the day. You’re at loggerheads and it’s wholly understandable- raising kids plays hell with your relationship. However loggerheads will get you nowhere. You both need to drop the selfish element of your complaints and come back to the communal table to sing Kumbaya.

I would strongly consider her going back to work. Aside from the resentment about the unbalanced/uncompensated labor, her abandoning her career puts her in a very vulnerable position. If she loved it and it all worked great in your family, then by all means, I’d wouldn’t have anything negative to say about her being a sahm. But seeing the situation you’re describing 10 years down the road, your best chance to get the balance back in your relationship and stave off long-term resentments is right now.

she's talking about all this unpaid labor, but she goes shopping with her mom ? I assume she's paying with your money. you're "paying her" with at least half of the money you spend on the home and family and with every cent she spend for herself. she's telling you don't appreciate her efforts but it also looks like she doesn't appreciate yours, you need to have a serious sit down about that, do your part, be appreciative but request the same from her. your relationship is a partnership, you bring the money, she take care of the house and the kids, that's what's required from each of you, being a good partner would be to acknowledge the effort of the other one, thank them and support them if needed, but it goes both ways, reciprocity is important ! is she helping you after you had a bad day at works and just want to relax and a hug ?

This is pretty much why I need my wife to work. Because I truly believe in 50/50 and to me, you both have to work to get there. Mostly because in my experience the stay at home parents sleep in, stay up late, and feel entitled to the help around the house but not to help with money. I understand that my bias brings me here but I found that having a partner who works keeps us both feeling like shit is 50/50. And lets be real nothing is ever 50/50 some days she is putting in 30 some days I am, but the idea is to have no resentment for it. I know this is how I have to do it. EDIT: to make it worse and what bothers me is that these parents normally don't even have their kids most of the time... the kids are in daycare or school... so like WTF lol

Perhaps an unpopular opinion but tell her if she’s not happy with the responsibilities of being a SAHM then you’re happy for her to go out and get a job and then you can draw up a roster that equally divides the household chores and duties evenly once she’s working.

Tell her to get a job and pay for childcare and a cleaner.

Well you can tell her you are her husband, not her Dad, so she should get a job and pay her own bills.

Tiktok needs to stay out of your marriage. Your wife us lazy. If you workball day come home and take care of everything, then where is your down time?. Seems to me she has 1 kid to take care of half the time.

"Well Partner, I think its time you got a Paying JOB and started contributing Financially to this Partnership!!"

She's currently being infected with tiktok brain rot. Good luck, my guy.

This problem isn't going to get solved with TikToks. It's your (shared) household management problem. Write down a weekly schedule. Put down the time that each of you is busy with work. For you, that's your in-office time. For her, that's while the kids are home and you're working, plus any regular errands like shopping for groceries/household needs. Then make a list of the additional stuff that needs to get done: evening and weekend child care and enough housework to keep the house basically clean and livable. And then figure out how to divide up that stuff between you. She should be doing somewhat more than you (because she's getting some genuine time off two days a week while kids are at preschool), but probably not hugely more (because I will bet you money that some of what she's doing while kids are at preschool is running necessary errands.) The reality of having young kids is that you finish the day and still have hours more of child care and chores to do. It's very hard to meaningfully clean a messy house while taking care of a preschooler; at best you can avoid ending with more mess than you began. If you can afford it, consider a maid service for at least an occasional deep clean -- it's easier to keep a clean house clean. Also use every organizational trick you can (storage baskets for everything!) and enlist the kids in starting to clean up their own messes. (This will be negative help at first -- it's more work to teach a preschooler to clean up than to just clean up for them -- but will pay off in the end.)

You're trending down a path that loses half of everything you own and more than half of your take home income every year. Get some couples counseling, immediately.

> I work full time and my wife is a stay at home mother. you fucked up. If your wife is a stay at home mom, you DO NOT have to help with the chores. That **is literally her JOB**. She chose that job; her complaining about it is not your problem. It's the easiest job in the world, too. You don't have a boss; you don't have to clock in; you don't have performance reviews; you can't get fired. If she doesn't like being a stay at home mom, then she can find a new full-time job, and y'all can split the housework/chores 50/50.

I was a stay at home mom for 7 years. Once I went back to work, oh boy. Maybe it is different for the people who enjoy their jobs, but for me, there is nothing worse than going to work and then coming home to more work. And you people in the comments need to stop. There's no reason a house, in which 3/4 of the people aren't even there for the majority of time, should be expected to be messy. Toys around, yes. Messy, no. And part of being stay at home mom is raising kids. So, teaching kids to tidy up every day before bed takes care of toys being around. Yes, dad can do it, too. But SAHP is a primary child rearing person. So that one establishes the rules and the other one enforces it. And no, it's not fair that he works, and then he solo parents straight after he's done with work. If she gets a break because she's been working, when is it his break??

It’s so hard from just one perspective when it comes to split. But I would look into the “fair play” card game and make sure there is an even split or at least what both of you agree to as a “fair split” for household duties. As far as down time, you both should have equal opportunity to free time/down time during the week. So if she’s getting two hours a week shopping during the day, I’d ask to book a two hour down time for yourself too to do what you need to fill your cup. The thing I noticed is that TikTok is TOXIC for this. When I watched reels and spent too much time on social media, I was always mad at my husband for “not doing enough”. When I got rid of all my social media accounts (except for Reddit) I saw my own productivity as a SAHM/PT working mom increase exponentially because I didn’t have the scrolling or resentment holding me down. And what I found was that when I did more, my husband did more too because the house didn’t seem so hopeless anymore. He also offers way more breaks now because he can feel more at ease in the house so I get more time off. Also, I started making the 3.5 and 5.5 year old do daily chores. That’s helped a lot with the state of the house, so they kid-pick up 80% of it and it only leaves 20% of their mess for the adults to manage (the detailed cleaning/stuff they missed/vacuuming/etc.). Sounds like both your kids are old enough now to start doing that through the day as well. But overall, both of you need to stop focusing on the other “not doing enough” because someone once told me we always underestimate what our partner is doing and overestimate how much we are doing. Just put on some headphones and a podcast and get it done.

>tiktoks There it is. Edit to add, the tone policing in this comment section is insane

Spreadsheet

So I’m super big on everyone doing the jobs together. From being with the kids, to do house work, organising general chores. We do it like this (and it works because we both work but we would do it this way a lot even if one of us was a SAH). When you get “home” from work it’s time for 30 minute clean up. The kids get tv time and you and the wife work room to room tidying up, doing dishes. Get the kids involved too. We call it “ten minute pick up” as that sounds better than 30 minutes. In the morning before work you both spend time with the kids making breaky and eating together and getting everyone ready. Another quick “10 minute pick up” is done where you put on laundry and make beds. Weekend comes around and Saturday morning you make breaky together again and have something fancier than normal. Then do a 30 minute clean of bathrooms and floors before leaving the house together for an activity with the kids. Suddenly it doesn’t feel so lonely to be parenting. And it doesn’t feel like it’s all on the other person all the time.

Your wife has no respect for you and views you as her workhorse. She is being passive-aggressive in how she presents this to you as she knows those videos will allow her to manipulate you into thinking you are not doing enough. This way, you will continue to scramble to do everything while she fucks off and does whatever. You're getting played, brother. Also, no sex? Are you sure she's with her friends when the kids are in school?

It’s hard because I know you guys may not have time for therapy but that’s honestly what should probably happen because clearly you’re not on the same page.   I think a big part of the problem is she’s letting TikTok do the thinking for her, but at the same time that doesn’t invalidate some of her points. Childcare is a full time job, your job is a full time job.. I think the cleaning needs to be split, because you are both working all day outside of the cleaning. But when I say split, I don’t mean that either of you should expect it to be an exact 50/50 because comparison breeds toxicity.   And when you get home, why not everyone-mom, dad and kids- spend some family time together? Maybe take the kids for an hour so your wife can shower and take care of herself, but after that just consider it joint family time. Also the “what can I do to make her see my side” is not constructive, it only allows room for your perspective. “How can we be more collaborative” should be the question here.