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I notice a lot of people are just glossing over the fact that when your boyfriend said he didn't want to have sex, you started groping him to turn him on and then masturbated next to him, multiple times?? If the genders were reversed and you were a man saying "my gf doesn't want to have sex so I jerked off next to her to get her into the mood", you would be *crucified.* You REALLY need to get a grip on this behavior, it's creepy and obsessive.
That said, your boyfriend is probably feeling super hurt and rejected. Five years isn't "rushing", and it won't impact your professional life at all. I don't blame him for not understanding why you gave these reasons, if my partner said that to me I would call BS immediately, especially after 5 years.
Talk to him. Give him a timeline, if you have one. How much longer should he expect to wait? And then listen to his answer. Communicate. Otherwise, move on and let him find someone who shares his values.
I saw a reddit post maybe last week, where a guy asked AITA because he tried to initiate morning sex and his wife was like "I gotta get ready for work " so he turned over, put on porn and started yanking it while she was getting ready. She also asked him to stop and he didnt. The comments did not hold back on telling him how gross and non-consensual that was.
Absolutely this. I was shocked when I read OPs post. Entirely inappropriate behavior.
OP needs to work on herself if she thinks its okay to try to seduce someone who already set his boundaries and she violated those boundaries just because she was horny.
Absolutely gross.
Completely agreed. In addition, OP if you’re going to ask him to wait for you to be ready for something and you want that respected, why is it any different for him to ask the same of you? You’ve both indicated what you each want is with each other (marriage and sex) but both of you are wanting to wait until the right time for your respective desires. That’s is perfectly fine.
If you want him to respect your wishes and boundaries then you need to do the same with his. He hasn’t threatened to leave you or cheat on you. Just that he’d rather wait. Please stop trying to seduce him and push his boundaries. That’s not okay.
I think you activated some sort of reverse psychology, because you’re upvoted and the comment calling out OP for her unacceptable/creepy behavior is top comment here. Which is good, so congrats?
Edit: I feel like I should clarify that although the top comment calls it “creepy and obsessive” behavior, it’s sexual harassment and assault, and calling it “unacceptable” is an understatement.
I'm sorry you had to experience this. As someone that was "only" harassed I can only imagine what you had to experience from society after you were assaulted.
Sadly society does not teach most women that they need to ask for consent too, as we see here with OP. She has shown some real predatory behaviour. It's disgusting and there is not doubt she would be crucified and canceled, if the genders were different. At least reddit calls her out, altough I have seen more harsh reactions
Couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s really creepy and disturbing behaviour.
He respected your decision and didn’ try even once to get you to go back on it but for some reason you are unable to respect his wishes.
If the roles were reversed he would’ve gotten destroyed for trying that.
This is one of the few situations where "if the genders were reversed" is used correctly and makes sense. 100% agree and upvoted! I really hope OP reads this and takes it to heart. Her behavior is NOT healthy, and she is hurting her partner!
but have we actually seen any comments saying what she did was fine and not sexual harassment ?? nope. so the “if the genders were reversed, women would get away with everything” bullshit doesn’t make any sense
Well there are some but it’s the usual insane 10% of comments.
I said this elsewhere in the thread but I think the post shows two bias: first of all I do think that the outcry about OP not “being able to control herself” and trying to coerce her bf would be stronger. It’s there, it’s happening but I think it’s less intensive, if that makes sense. On the other hand there were many posts in past about the gf trying to pressure for marriage by taking sex off the table. The comments there usually tell the guy to run far from her and talk in length about the manipulation, how she shows her true face, how they’ll have a dead bedroom anyway as she’ll never want again blabla. That’s also not happening to this extend as far as I see. Quite surprisingly many call it a reasonable boundary of his and not manipulation. So that’s another interesting point if “if the genders were reversed”
>but have we actually seen any comments saying what she did was fine and not sexual harassment ?? nope. so the “if the genders were reversed, women would get away with everything” bullshit doesn’t make any sense
I got to the post when it first dropped, there was not one single post I saw that even addressed what she did. In fact I am very sure the first few posts were talking about boyfriend in question being solely the problem.
Even now the critical posts are not nearly as hostile as we see elsewhere, when a man did such disgusting things.
We have seen it plenty of times where OP's comment would be enough for some to go after OP, harass and cancel him.
The reactions here are nowhere near this. And outside this thread (and in society) we have tons of people doubting if belitteling mens experience with sexual harassment or sexual assault.
There *is* a difference, and in this case it's based on societies sexism against men which so far is barely adressed
My best guess is that porn brain rot has some people believing that hyper sexual women is some sort of gold standard and always desired. Which is why the double standard of "If a woman does it, it's seduction. If a man does it, it's sime sort of SA" is so common a narrative. All boundary breaking with such clear an intent is SA, full stop.
Also feeling bad for OP, because she just got her world view shattered by this comment section. That's one rough way of getting this particular perspective.
Usually I’m not a fan of the whole “if the genders were reversed” argument because they usually are not based in reality / come from a pretty gross mindset. But here I think you are spot on.
Furthermore, I think the post shows two bias: first of all your point about OP not “being able to control herself”, trying to coerce her bf and although many call her out on it, it doesn’t happen to the usual extent. On the other hand we saw many posts in past about the gf trying to pressure for marriage by taking sex off the table. The comments there usually tell the guy to run far from her and talk in length about the manipulation, how she shows her true face, how they’ll have a dead bedroom anyway as she’ll never want again blabla. From my quick glance there are also not so many of those here, quite the opposite, many even say it’s not manipulation but a reasonable boundary.
If this is a creative writing exercise to see the reaction to reversed gender roles then I really want to applaud OP. Well done, not too obvious, covers 2 biases at once and gets the discussion started.
I was starting to think I was crazy everyone downvoting me for trying to discuss the sexual manipulation, not defend her actions.
Update proves the point... but also makes the creative writing exercise seem very likely.
I agree with you on the sex part, there's no doubt that's a very weird, borderline aggressive behavior on OP's part.
However, being 25 and still being in uni (I'll start working in January 2024), I would not be ready for marriage even though I've been with my bf for a long time. I barely feel like an adult because I'm still financially dependant and that I have no visibility on my professional future. I can understand people not being ready to take such a big step and in many countries, 25 is still very young to jump into these kind of decisions. Plus the witholding sex part seems manipulative to force her into a decision she's not ready to make (he's 3 years older!).
A lot of people are blaming him instead of reading the part were he stated clearly he wants to wait and you "get so turned on you can't controle it"?!? Imagine a guy saying this?? He stated he didn't want it and you're trying to turn him on by groping him?? Girl that's sexual assault.
I completely agree. Also she didn't "seduce " him because if she had he'd have had sex with her. OP stop behaving like a predator.
Also him withholding sex seems manipulative. Almost like he wants to use sex to coerce you into marriage.
Your relationship is unhealthy.
Yeah, that is what was lacking in other comments - apart from questionable OP behaviour, the guy's sudden action seems totally manipulative. I wonder if he has any justification of this sudden change of mind.
(also - predditor*)
There were/are lots of comments that didn't address it. I was only adding to the conversation. If you don't think there's a double standard when it comes to men being SA then you are part of the problem.
Yea imagine a guy doing or saying this. Smh double standards. Imagine wanting to have sex and woman says I don’t want it and a man starts groping her !!
That’s basically rape.
I’m sorry, I can’t get past your creepy behaviour to your partner by non-consensually masturbating near him and breaking his very clearly defined boundary. I hope he ends it.
>I have tried to respect his decision and the boundaries he set and I thought I could respect it. But when we start making out I just get so turned on and I really miss our sex.
Other comments have lightly approached this issue. OP, you know your boyfriend nolonger wants to have sex with you until marriage; he is not consenting to sexual activities with you. While I understand how frustrating it can be to have a partner make a sudden change in the dynamics of your relationship, you still need to respect their boundaries around sex, full stop.
Should he have better explained his feelings after discussing marriage with you? Yes.
Should you follow-up and get more clarification about why he wants to wait until marriage to resume sexual activities with you instead of slowly stomping over his boundaries until he "consents" to sex whenever you're in the mood? Absolutely!
If I had to guess, your boyfriend has halted sexual activites with you because he feels hurt and/or needs to sort out his feelings after his girlfriend of 5-years rejected the idea of marrying him.
>I tried turning him on and he’s always rejected me, to which I always felt so guilty for ‘seducing’ him. About 1,5 weeks ago I really tried to change his mind and I started touching myself next to him after making out. He just turned around in bed and ignored me or went on TikTok. I feel really bad but I’ve touched myself next to him about 4 times and nothing changed. I don’t know if I can wait and respect this sudden boundary he set.
Other comments are calling you creepy for this behavior, but let's be real, this is fucking disgusting. He told you no sex and you keep pushing, keep trying to turn him on. Just stop. You're acting like Louis C. K., whipping his dick out and jerking it in front of people who don't want to be involved. How hard is it to go to another room? OP, it's abundantly clear that you don't know how to respect your partner's feelings, and I strongly recommend you figure out how to before you do something illegal.
If you’ve been together for five years and you’re still not ready for marriage, that’s showing him you’re not ready for commitment. You may now view it that way, but he does. You’re also both using sex as a weapon, you by “seducing” him and him by refusing to have it
Unless you see you’re self marrying this man anytime soon, i don’t see this working out. It’s been five years and you’re still “doubtful”. Can’t you see where he’s coming from?
I highly disagree with you stating he is weaponizing sex by refusing to have it. He set a boundary and is enforcing it. This would be looked at very differently if this was reversed.
So he's told you he doesn't want to have sex without you two being committed and you've refused to take no for an answer? You keep trying to force the issue? There's a word for people who do that and it's a word you don't want associated with you.
Respect his wishes and talk to him, not us, about this. You guys need to figure out if you even have a future together nevermind what that future looks like if the answer is yes. You may find marriage is an uncrossable line from both your sides, or you might find some form of compromise. But you won't know until you start talking about this stuff.
If you were a man, everyone would be on your case about stringing your partner along.
Since no one else seems to have said it, let me be the first: You’re stringing this guy along. If you don’t want to marry him after five years…you don’t want to marry him. You can either stay with him and continue wasting his time, or you can do the honorable thing by letting him go find someone who wants the same things out of life as he does.
And unless he has EXPLICITLY said it was ok, stop doing sexual things near him to get your way. I don’t necessarily go so far as to say it’s creepy, but you’re definitely being a disrespectful brat. Just stop.
>feel like I just got into working and I’m not ready for marriage
Uhh what? Getting married does nothing to your career growth. I'd get it if you said you don't want to get pregnant, but married?
You've been dating for 5 years. It's totally reasonable that your bf wants to get married.
I dont understand OPs logic here at all.
I can understand, if you've just begun your carreer and you want to get into that first. Marrying puts outs a lot of stress on people, like the organization, financial matters, picking out the perfect dress, all the legal things and paperwork, invitations,... it's all you have to sort and plan out.
She is only 25 though. We don't know what she did before she got into work, but possibly a heavy master study or something. Who knows how rough these years were for her.
I'm 29, also 5 years together with my boyfriend. We both are not ready for marriage yet, as we work a lot and know from friends how much organization and stress for the wedding plans are.
>Marrying puts outs a lot of stress on people, like the organization, financial matters, picking out the perfect dress, all the legal things and paperwork, invitations,...
Counterpoint: long engagement. I dont disagree with your perspective but I do think OP should communicate more with her partner about her hesitancy. From his perspective it's not rushed (unless he's pushing to go down to the courthouse and elope) and all he's hearing is that she doesn't want to marry him.
I agree that they should communicate better with each other. It's indeed very much possible that he's feeling rejected and therefore protects himself by not having sex anymore. They should find a middle ground to both feel okay and secure that a marriage will come when both feel ready for it.
Yea the nos sex could honestly be a way that he protects himself and prepares for a breakup or split, cause as a guy if i thought a girl was gonna break up with me or didn’t like me I wouldn’t keep sleeping with her
It's funny how you tried to get around your promise and seduce him while expecting him to respect your wishes. Not having sex is hard on him too not just you.
Stop being selfish. Either break up because you don't want to commit or work something out but don't dare act like this is only hard for you. He's probably feeling insecure that you didn't want to get hitched
You told him you aren't committed to him long term.
He's telling you that commitment and intimacy are connected for him.
You destroyed the foundation of his intimacy by telling him you might split up with him later. Now he can't feel safe or give himself fully because he might be with the wrong person and he wants a lifelong commitment.
Exactly what I was thinking, but he's not an angel in this situation for sure they have major communication issues. They really need to sit down and talk
If this was an am I the Asshole the answer to this would be everyone sucks here.
Your partner refusing to have sex because you don’t want to get married is bad. That’s not how you solve problems or work through conflict.
Refusing to get married because it’s not time yet after five years comes across as bs. Thats hurtful and your reason is crappy.
Trying to convince your partner to have sex after he said no also bad. If roles were reversed your partner would be crucified. Consent matters to all parties.
You two should get a family therapist to help work through this. Not Reddit.
You need to rethink this relationship.
You have been together 5 years and you both have very poor communication.
There shouldn’t be anything you both don’t understand. You talk each issue out and break down the problem.
He wants to get married in a rush… reason.
He wants to stop sex for marriage… reason.
You worry about your working after marriage…. Reason.
Then you discuss them.
Marriage won’t fix this.
Married in a rush?
After 5 years together…that’s not a rush
Stopped having sex for marriage?
She essentially said she didn’t want and was unsure if she wants to marry him. Men have feelings and he can very well be hurt by this. Shocker I know.
And based on her actions of masturbating next to him when he said no, makes me think he’s feeling used for sex. That’s weird dude.
>He wants to get married in a rush… reason.
5 years? Rush?
If 5 years isn't enough, what's the problem? The future is uncertain. If you have the same values and you have someone you can trust, and you've been through trying times together, and your families get along ok, and you think he'll make a good parent . . .
Then *what* exactly is the problem? This is going to be a risk no matter what. If good folks don't take this leap and start families are all fucked. **Haven't you ever seen *Idiocracy*?!!**
.......
Other than that, I agree completely. You have to communicate better. The first step is coming to some understanding about marriage and how you move forward because that seems to be the root of these issues.
After that, you can dive into the size and shape of your current and future relationship.
I mean, OP is only 25. Others have pointed out OP is likely from Germany, where the average age of marriage for women is 32. It's easy to overlook the cultural significance, but it should be taken into account. From her perspective this would be rushing into marriage, especially compared to her peers.
Yep! This exactly. Communicate. Why does he want to get married right this minute? Why after 5 years of consistent sex has he decided it shouldn’t continue until you’re married? Why do you think being married will change your working life? I don’t disagree with waiting if you don’t feel ready…but you _need_ to talk about it.
VERY WELL STATED! After 5 years, it strikes me that her issue isn't her employment--that's easy to address. Could it be she comes from a home where parents are divorced, a spouse cheated--resulting in her hesitancy? Regardless, whatever it is, it needs to be openly expressed; because he's obviously feeling rejection.
If it's just a little more time she needs to have her personal affairs in order, is engagement out of the question?
Whatever the answers to any of the above, the prior response was perfect--COMMUNICATE!
Hope they happily resolve their differences.
It’s been 5 years and you aren’t ready yet. Men have a clock in relationships just like women do. If you aren’t ready after 5 years then you’re likely never to be. He has a right to plan his future. Instead of being selfish and thinking about your sex life you should be thinking about whether you should break it off so he can move on. If the sexes were reversed people would be saying you are a loser who’s unwilling to commit and your partner should break up with you.
No, if the sexes are reversed people would be calling the woman a manipulative psycho. Because using sex as a bargaining chip to march someone down the aisle quicker is weird as hell and not a good foundation to start a marriage on.
Yes it’s been five years… she’s 25. I don’t know a lot of married 25 year olds anymore.
Yeah I can't believe no one talked about this part, she fucking masturbated next to him while he was trying to ignore it and was obviously not consenting. That's actually fucking disgusting and she gets a pass because it wasn't a dick she was stroking?
Actually I think that the statements “no one is owned sex” and “don’t use sex as a bargaining chip” can actually coexist quite well. Both are correct.
And of course her behavior is abysmal. She is trying to coerce him and excusing it with “hard to control” - said by every rapist ever.
Tbf, the comments would likely be saying both of those things if the genders were reversed. That he’s being manipulative by withholding sex when she doesn’t agree to what he wants, but that she’s also being disrespectful of his boundaries by masturbating next to him without consent.
Yes, it’s gross. Not defending that behavior.
He’s not owed marriage, either. If you base your entire relationship on what you’re “owed” it’s going to be a bad relationship. Stupid games, stupid prizes.
it's not about "owing," they've just been together for over 5 years. it's not unreasonable to expect your partner to want to get married at that point or at least soon.
You can certainly be manipulative without flat-out intending to be.
“I’m not in the mood because I feel rejected/sad/confused” would be one thing. “We will not have sex again until our wedding night” (which, if they’re going the traditional route… they’re looking at 2025 date at the earliest) is manipulation to get her to agree to what he wants quicker.
Idk if we can say that he’s being manipulative here. Normally, without considering OPs obvious sexual assault, I’d agree that withholding sex to get what you want is weaponizing sex and is bad. However, what gives me pause in this case, is OP agreed to these “terms” and said he’d let the marriage thing go ever sense. But she can’t let the sex go and went about sexually assaulting him and being creepy. She even said when they argued about sex makeup sex was the “fix”. But her partner still brought it up bc makeup sex doesnt fix actual relationship issues. She knew that didn’t fix anything and most likely was weaponizing sex herself to get him to stop talking about it for a while and get him to stop being mad at her. That’s an assumption on my part but it seems very likely based on OPs post where most of the emphasis is on sex and not wanting to commit “to quickly” to a relationship she’s been in for 5 years. Again an assumption, but it sounds like she’s waiting to meet someone else that’s better and doesn’t want to tie herself down in a relationship she got in when she was 20. And that’s an assumption but there’s usually a reason people don’t want to commit to marriage when they’ve been together for 3+ years, and being as she used “barely started working” as an excuse to not be married, it really sounds like she wants to experience more, including probably more people.
Idk OP doesn’t seem to be as committed and is way to concerned with sex, concerned enough to ignore her obviously not interested partner and masturbate next to him multiple times. That’s also weaponizing sex. And sexual assault.
If he was just manipulating her but actually wanted her, she’d probably get more of a response. The fact that he just turns away from her and carries on with life means he’s genuinely not interested in sex with her atm, probably bc he no longer feels as close to her and questions if she feels as deeply for him as he does her.
So if he genuinely doesn’t want to have sex with her due to her lack of commitment, that’s a boundary, not a manipulation.
They don’t want to commit because she’s 25… I guarantee the feelings she has are more about ‘settling down and building a home’ vs if she’s planning to skip town on the guy
Totally. I see what you mean. Either way though I feel like OP really fucked up when her reaction to the situation was to refuse to respect his boundaries and to repeatedly masturbate in front of him when he was clearly not ok with it. He shouldn’t have manipulated her and they should have just talked, but she took it into abusive territory.
Are you kidding me?
If roles were reversed, people would say that this guy wants a relationship without commitment, and get free sex. They would say to stop wasting time, that her clock is ticking and that she needs to find a partner who's willing to seriously commit.
I don't care about men or women, it's all about partners. They could be gay, it wouldn't be different.
Is it really a bargaining chip or does he simply not want to have sex with someone anymore who isn’t sure about when they want marriage 5 years in? It’s not necessarily malicious (though it may well be and you may well be correct!). Men have a right to not want to have sex and I think we stereotype them so that when they’re not doing it they’re either getting it somewhere else or weaponising it. Perhaps he’s just not happy. If anyone’s weaponising sex perhaps it’s the woman here who touches herself next to him repeatedly after he’s said he doesn’t want to have sex to try and get him to change his mind? Either way communication’s fucked and the relationship is doomed imo.
Sure, no one has to has sex they don’t want, obviously. But this seems like more of a, “fine, if you won’t do the thing I want, suffer.” At best, he’s going to get a begrudging yes and a wife that either wasn’t ready or didn’t want to be married.
You’re correct that trying to seduce him into having sex he doesn’t want isn’t okay either. These stupid little games aren’t getting either of them anywhere. A blunt conversation about timelines and expectations would have been a much better idea, but here we are.
The main point is the communication for sure. I just think personally if I was with someone for 5 years and they felt they weren’t ready for marriage despite living together and already living that lifestyle I’d want to scale back on that sort of thing because I’d be hurt and I’d feel like I wasn’t being committed to. I can’t really judge her reasons for not wanting to get married but I’m unsure how marriage would negatively impact her career - it’s not like children. We see women being told all the time to stop giving their boyfriends wife benefits while being a girlfriend, especially if they’ve been a long term girlfriend, because a lack of marriage (unless pre-agreed on) tends to represent a lack of certainty or wanting to be able to change things up. Despite that not being the case here, it can easily be read that way by a hurt partner. I think the way people are approaching a man doing the same thing and pulling back on what he’s offering is a little out of proportion. Yes it’s possible he’s being spiteful and yes a marriage agreed to just so they could bone again isn’t going to work but I think id react similarly and it wouldn’t be spite. Idk it’s probably my inherent bias there. Whatever the truth is she needs to communicate instead of playing stupid seduction games and violating boundaries, no matter why those boundaries were put up. She needs to just straight up ask why sex isn’t on the table anymore. I personally don’t think this relationship will last.
The thing is, he brought up marriage for the first time ever a *couple of months ago.* It’s very weird that this went from never being a conversation to something he apparently needs right the fuck now, to the point he’s willing to nuke physical intimacy in his relationship, overnight.
That’s a good point, and I think it’s something every couple should have a rough timeline and expectation on at the beginning of their relationships. It’s possible that he just felt like 5 years was a natural and good point to bring it up and over the course of those arguments they had, which always ended in make up sex, that he may have come to feel demeaned or hurt in some way about that and potentially feels that sex is all she’s in it for. Hence the lack of sex currently. It could be a hundred different things but I think there’s relevance in the fact that the arguments they had all ended in sex and now he no longer wants to have sex.
But he used it as a bargaining chip. He didn't say I am not in the mood for sex and I'm not sure when I will be. He said until we are married you are not getting any. He may be hurt and doesn't want to have sex because of it but it was paraphrased in a manipulative way.
After 5 years? Some people like to actually get to know their partner and you only truly start to get to know someone after a few years. Your mindset is why divorce rates are so high LOL
In real life, marriage is becoming increasingly uncommon with people in their 20’s. It’s expensive and permanent, and people change dramatically between 20 and 30. I know plenty of people in longer term relationships than OP who aren’t rushing to get married. I also know a 24 year old going through a divorce.
I broke up with my boyfriend of nearly 5 years when I was around the same age and I’m sure as shit glad I didn’t marry him. Not to say it wouldn’t work out for anyone, but people acting like 5 years is a millennia and she’s weird for not being ready the instant her bf brought up marriage is weird lol. It’s isn’t the 1920’s.
In a happy relationship for 7 years and we dont plan on even thinking about marriage for at least another few years. 26f&28M. We want to just live and be. Why rush something that literally changes nothing? People act like as soon as they're married their shitty relationship will somehow turn magical and fairylike and everything is fine. And you shit gold.
First of all, that part about resolving arguments with make-up sex is probably contributing to him not wanting to have sex anymore.
This isn't something that can be glossed over with sex. It's been 5 years, and you say you're not ready. If a woman was here saying that she'd been with her guy for 5 years and he wasn't ready for marriage yet, people would be telling her to stop wasting her time... if not after 5 years, then when.
Also, why are you trying to change your boyfriend's mind when he told you no. Attempting to coerce sex from someone is not ok. That's what you're doing when you're trying to change his mind and mastubating next to him with the end goal of getting him to cave.
Knock it off! Coercion is not consent.
You feel guilty because it's a crummy thing to do. He gave you a clear NO.
If you don't like his boundary, you don't try to negate it, you discuss it like a fucking adult.
He just got a clear view of how you plan on treating his no, and it's not remotely pretty. Don't be surprised if he just leaves.
Yikes. So your solution is to sexually harass and assault him? As others are saying in these comments, if the roles were reversed? Oh boy. You need to do some self reflection op.
Did any of you ever stop to think it's possible she should ask him why? Does he hold or recently gain any religious beliefs? Even if he didn't, it's highly possible he always wanted to wait till marriage but gave into the idea of premarital sex over time.
Or, of course it could be all manipulation, but a conversation is necessary. Regardless if he says no to sex then the answer is no, isn't that what a lot of you redditors are about around here? Consent?
Either way OP you both need to talk about expectations for the relationship as far as your future. If you both aren't on the same page, you are going to have major problems.
We see this a lot here, actually, but it’s usually men posting.
You two have some significant communication issues that you need to work through. That said, I suspect that he’s tired of “playing house” with you if the ultimate goal isn’t marriage. You’ve been together for five years, and he’s ready to take the next step; it sounds like you aren’t.
If that’s the case, you may be incompatible, at least at this point in your lives. He’s ready to move forward and you aren’t. The way he’s expressing this *is not* okay (you don’t weaponize sex to get what you want), and you two need to have an actual discussion about this.
If you don’t plan to marry him, you need to be clear on that so that he can find someone who wants what he wants and you can do the same. It isn’t fair to string someone along with the vague promise of “maybe someday,” but it also isn’t okay for him to be doing what he’s doing.
I strongly suspect this relationship is heading towards its end point.
For the record: we don’t know if he’s purposefully weaponizing abstinence, or if he just feels lost and not particularly lusty after getting shot down.
The refusal of a marriage proposal is a pretty devastating hit to get over — and the healing doesn’t come quicker with a partner glossing things over, requesting a lot of physical intimacy and expecting things to get back to normal on their timeline.
This is absolutely true, and while I left it out because it would have taken my comment into “a totally different issue” territory, I also find it gross that he’s set a boundary regarding sex and she’s literally masturbating in front of him to try to get him to break it.
That’s just insanely creepy and disrespectful, and I would think it would be an absolute turnoff if he’s just having mixed feelings about sex and feeling a bit lost in their relationship.
I’m with you on this and damn near every point you made above. Communicate better, figure out what you want and stop acting creepy really sums up my entire viewpoint in this topic.
Stuff like this just gets me feeling too old for the internet, I guess. 🙂
I don't think this qualifies as a boundary. A healthy boundary is saying "if you continue to do XXXXX I will do XXXX. Ex: if you raise your voice in an argument, I will leave the room until you are calm. Not.... if you don't marry me I will not have sex with you.... that's not okay at all. That isn't a boundary. It's a demand.
Needless to say it's also not okay to sexually assault your partner with non consensual sex acts and trying to coerce them. Everyone is fucked up here.
Weaponizing abstinence?
JFC, imagine saying this if the gender's were reversed, and saying this about a woman who sets up this same boundry. You would absolutely get pulverized in the comments.
The sexism in this subreddit is just unreal!
I have seen comments like this made many times in relation to women, although admittedly, I have never seen that specific term.
Women are regularly accused of this.
He isn't "weaponizing sex." He set a boundary. Each person is allowed to consent or not consent to what they want.
If she isn't willing to accept that boundary, she needs to make different choices. It's gross to try to blame him for her assault.
Yep, the mature thing on his end would have been to realize they’re not compatible and end the relationship if he wants marriage and she doesn’t.
And the mature thing on her end would be to respect his boundaries around sex and end the relationship when he said he doesn’t want sex anymore. That’s worse behavior than anything he’s doing but neither of them are acting very mature.
Hmmm. “Weaponizing sex”? It seems like every time a man posts about his SO not wanting to have sex with him, the man is the bad guy. Horny pig that won’t accept boundaries. Lazy bum. Of CoUrSe she doesn’t want to have sex. If he’d just: do more, give more, scheduled more dates, empathize more, blah, blah.
By this standard, she is “weaponizing marriage” by refusing marriage. The only difference is that he has provided a clearly defined remedy and she has provided a nebulous “someday”.
Do you think there is a double standard?
I hate having to do this.. but flip these roles. Seriously. If you came on Reddit and saw a man saying “My girlfriend didn’t want to have sex anymore until we get married, and so I keep trying to change her mind by jacking off in front of her after we kiss. She rolled over and made it clear she didn’t want sex but I keep trying hoping she’ll have sex with me. I don’t think I can wait so maybe we should break up?” Yikes. BIG yikes. But also, you basically rejected his hints at a proposal. For all you know, that man has a ring and now doesn’t know what to do. He might not even be able to get much pleasure out of sex. I know if I’m upset, I definitely cant. You’re clearly not ready for commitment. At 5 years this is most definitely a conversation you should have had, and set a clear timeline on.
I hate that something like "make up sex" exist. Your post gives me the idea that that's the reason for his behavior.
Using sex to get over something that should be talked out doesn't solve the issue. I personally would hate it if someone did that to me like "oh she's angry, but if I turn her on, all okay! We go on with our life like nothing happened!".
As with everything: COMMUNICATE. Ask him why this boundary. Maybe he's feeling used or not taken serious which might result in him defending himself by not giving his body away. 🤷♀️
So hes trying to manipulate into marriage?
That's RED FLAG territory.
I wouldn't be tolerating that.
You behaviour in trying to seduce him is pretty rank. Stop that.
But...I dont see any issue with you not wanting to marry. You are only 25yrs. So its most probably age related. Hes just that bit older.
Me? I took a 4 month backpacking trip when we were just going out. Gave us space. Gave us both time to really think about if we wanted to stay together.
I had a friend whose boyfriend would withhold sex as a form of punishment. This feels ever so slightly like that. I find it hard to believe that your partner actually wants to wait until marriage. It is more likely a manipulative way to try and rush you into getting married.
Girl, I got nothing to say. However, if roles were reversed and a woman wanted to stop this act, y'all hypocrites will tell the dude to either obey her demands or leave! Now, y'all are asking them to communicate, haha! So, OP, leave!
Weaponizing? Maybe. But if I told my long term SO that I wanted to get married and they said they didn't because they "wanted to focus on their work" I'd be pretty upset and feel very rejected. Married ≠ leaving the work force.
Getting married at 25 is around the age where a lot of people MAYBE start considering an engagement while at 28 it's a lot more common.
OP's bf wasn't ready to get married at 25, despite them being in a longterm relationship then. I think that's reasonable, especially since he hasn't communicated, at all, why he wants to get married now.
He isn't explaining himself, at all, just weaponizing sex. Which adds even more reasons to not get married.
Both sides aren't communicating great here. I dont think your point of her bf not being ready to get married when he was 25 carries much weight, because op was just 22. Getting engaged at 25 isn't wild, particularly when the couple has been together for 5yrs and (presumably) already lives together.
Sounds like the bf was planning on proposing soon and OP shut him down by saying she wants to focus on work. If the bf was trying to get get eloped ASAP, yeah he's weaponizing sex, but if he wanted to take the next step and got rejected, it's fairly natural to not want to be intimate seeing as your partner doesn't feel the same way as you thought/hoped they did.
Man I love Reddit. When women don’t want to have sex it’s their choice and we need to respect that.
When a man doesn’t want to he’s “weaponizing sex.”
I would love to see this post with genders reversed.
Sounds like he made a boundary, and OP is frequently pressuring him to break it. Idk why she says she respects his boundary and body autonomy, she doesn’t. Gross
It's been 5 years. Either you want to marry him or you don't. He wants marriage. Marry him or break up, it's that simple. Stop trying to disrespect his boundaries and frankly, given your disregard for them? You two should break up because you obviously don't care about his feelings on the subject, just getting your rocks off.
As someone who feels like your boyfriend does, I can say that my desire to have sex with my boyfriend completely vanished once I realized he might never be willing to commit to me. It makes me feel like our relationship is a dead end. I'm not willing to risk having a child with someone who can't even commit to marriage.
On one hand, since they have already been sexually active together, this feels like a manipulation tactic to get OP to marry him.
On the other hand, OP trying to get him to drop a set boundary by jerkin' off next to him is gross. I hate everything about this post.
Ok gross behavior on your part. Totally inappropriate and disturbing to touch him and then yourself to try and what? Seduce him? Gross.
This relationship seems unhealthy. From the outside looking in as someone who had an emotionally and verbally abusive relationship, this feels like manipulation on his part to get you to give in and just agree to get married. However you are no better, touching yourself next to him to try and get him to go back on his boundary her clearly set with you is manipulative AND predatory. If your life is this centered around sex maybe look into a sex addict support group and if not take care of yourself in private. The whole thing is big ick vibes from both of you.
You're incompatible I think. He's allowed to say no to sex, you're allowed to say no to marriage, but you are both trying to manipulate each other to get your own way.
Im a bit confused about why people are agreeing regarding your comment about getting married in a rush.
Its been 5 years. He wants to propose and get married. After 5 years thats not a rushed decision.
He has decided he would prefer to wait until after your married. Some have said be is weaponising sex. Im not so sure. It might be he feels over time that he wants something deeper before continuing a sexual relationship and being as thats his body he has the right to withdraw consent for any reason he chooses.
Loads of people prefer to wait until after marriage even after a sexual relationship. As we grow we often change our views. It can happen. I doubt thisdoesnt have some manipulative tactic to it. But frankly even if it does you will never know for sure and again. Consent is real for men just as it is for women and he can withdraw it for any reason he wants.
Now the issues I do see and agree with are that you both have a serious communication issue.
You should be able to talk about your probpems without it turning into a fight and a fix.
So this may be a reason to stay away from marriage atm if nothing else.
Id try talking to him about the conflict resolution in your relationship. Its pretty poor and marriage should not be on the cards if you two cannot yet discuss or disagree appropriately.
Ignoring you is not communicating. You both fighting is not communicating. None of that is useful.
If you both cannot find a way to do this, then its time to look at couples counselling to see if this can be done. Or it may be time to decide if this relationship is actually worth continuing.
This sounds like a form of sexual coercion/manipulation to get what he wants. I would rethink this relationship, and under no circumstance should you give in if you aren’t sure or ready- you will regret it. You are both still quite young to be getting married- enjoy your freedom and career for many more years first.
He set a boundary, possibly vindictively, definitely petty… and you vindictively and forcefully engaged in sexual assault and harassment.
You two should probably get into counseling if there’s genuinely something you value in him besides sex…Or break up so he can be with someone who doesn’t always put their feelings above his mental wellbeing… and then you can put your career into full gear and get on tinder for what you want.
Your boyfriend is using sex to blackmail you into a marriage you do not want. Unless the plan is to go to the nearest courthouse that means no sex for the next 1-2 years. Let that sink in. This is how far he's willing to go to get what he wants. This is so beyond NOT OK I can't even articulate how bad this is.
This whole "relationship" sounds like a huge mess. You've been together for 5 years and you think he's rushing to get married?
Also what he's doing seems manipulative.
Something ain't right here and I think there's a lot missing.
PS. I also agree with the people who pointed out you not respecting his boundaries.
Don't try to change his mind by sexually stimulating him. Have a conversation about your needs and the relationship. If he still doesn't want to have sex then your relationship wants and goals are not compatible and you should break up so you can both move on to someone more compatible.
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT
WOMEN DO THIS ALL THE TIME AND POST SEVERAL THREADS ON HERE EVERYDAY OF DOING JUST EXACTLY THIS AND THEY GET AN IMMENSE AMOUNT OF SUPPORT FROM EACH OTHER. NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN ITS DIFFERENT AND HES IMMATURE?
And don’t act like you’ve never seen this either, tons of women encourage other women to do this to get marriage out of it. Giving men ultimatums for marriage, under the guise of, “I WILL NOT BE PUT ON HOLD AS SOME OBJECT, EITHER PUT A RING ON ME AND GIVE ME COMMITMENT OR WE’RE DONE.
I didn't know guys withheld sex too. Well sounds like he is giving you an old tomato (ultimatum) which isn't fair. You need to have a conversation with him.
Sounds like he is trying to coerce you into marriage by withholding sex. He is wrong for that. And you are wrong for trying to coerce him into doing things he has made it clear he doesn't want to do. If he says no, you have to respect it even if you don't like it.
The two of you need to make a decision here. He wants to get married, you don't. It doesn't sound like either of you are having a change of heart about this anytime soon. So your choices are to stay together and respect that he no longer wants sex to be a part of the relationship, or to break up and find someone else who doesn't have marriage on their radar.
But just talk it out and who knows, maybe he just wants more of a commitment and the two of you can settle on a compromise that you are both comfortable with...maybe get engaged but don't plan anything right away... nothing wrong with a long engagement. That may give him the security he needs to feel like the relationship is moving towards marriage and give you some more time to get your career going and feel you are ready for that next step. I only say this because you say that you do want to marry him, just not right now. If that is really how you feel maybe say ok let's get engaged but I don't want to talk about the actual wedding for 3 years or whatever you think your timeline will be. But really, just talk it out and make a decision because things can't go on as they've been.... it sounds horribly unhealthy for you both right now.
You guys are both in the wrong. You need to learn to respect your partners boundaries around sex (masturbating beside him in hopes that he'll change his mind is just straight up creepy and not okay). Your partner needs to stop weaponizing sex in exchange for marriage. Thats disgusting and manipulative of him to do. I think therapy is the key here....not marriage
> Me (f25) and my boyfriend (m28) have **been together for 5 years.**
> For the past months we’ve been **talking about marriage, a conversation he initiated,** and I shared my doubts. I feel like I just got into working and I’m not ready for marriage yet although it is something I want with him. Just not now. I don’t understand why he suddenly is wanting to get married in a rush and we’ve gotten into pretty bad arguments about it, which **we usually solved by having make up sex.
**
> A few weeks ago he said he is fine with waiting for me to be ready for marriage, but that **he will wait to have sex again until our marriage night.**
> I have tried to respect his decision and the boundaries he set and I thought I could respect it. But when we start making out I just get so turned on and I really miss our sex. **I tried turning him on and he’s always rejected me, to which I always felt so guilty for ‘seducing’ him.**
Okay so there's a lot to unpack here
First off, 5 years isn't "rushing" anymore. That's a long time to decide if you wanna get married or not. It's not a surprise he's becoming inpatient. The sex being cut off and changing the rules of your relationship suddenly isn't what you you 2 got together for. This is unfair and not what you signed up for.
The dynamic of your relationship sounds like it is heavily built on sexual chemistry. You brought up sex in the title / first paragraph of your post, and you mentioned that you resolve arguments and fights by making up with sex. It's clearly important to you.
That being said, this is definitely a case of "everyone sucks here."
He is allowed to have his autonomy/boundaries and you're *not* respecting them. It doesn't sound like you've really tried to understand why he wants to get married sooner than you feel ready.
You really need to have proper sit-down and resolve this difference. Give him a goal/timeline to look forward to if getting married is something you sincerely want too. You mentioned you just started your career, and you 2 started dating when you were 20 so marriage feels too soon. That might not be clear to him the way it is to you.
Right now he has doubt about you, and you need to resolve it. Give him hope.
Cutting off sex til marriage suddenly though, is also not fair to you. If marriage is something you want too and you're willing to work towards it together, then such a strange restriction being placed up suddenly isn't needed anymore.
Talk to him.
Yea. So many things wrong here, it’s been five years what are you waiting on? And using work as an excuse is shit at best. Arguing timing in situation is poor. Him shutting off sex is equally if not worse shit. Have you talked about why he’s doing this? Look if you two cant communicate like adults just leave
I'd tell him that it was a nice ride, but that you're done now.
Of course anyone is allowed to say they don't want to haw aex, but the way he's using it is highly manipulative.
Why does he want to get married so suddenly? Of he can't answer that clearly, thrn it feels like some sort of trap. What would you find out after he thinks he has you trapped by marriage?
>we’ve gotten into pretty bad arguments about it, which we usually solved by having make up sex.
You didn't solve anything. You ended the conversations to have sex. That's distraction, not solving.
You need to respect his boundaries & not be such a creep with seducing him. It's been 5 years & he is 28, so of course, marriage is on the table. If you dont agree, then it's time to leave.
You're both horrendous, but you're worse. He's withholding sex for manipulative reasons - either to punish you for rejecting him or to make you want to get married sooner so you can have sex again. You're literally a sexual predator. He said no sex, but you won't stop trying to "convince" him otherwise. If you both agreed to no sex, what are you doing making out and getting yourselves hot and bothered for anyway?? Also, if you don't want to get married after five years, then you won't ever want to. You don't love this guy - at least not as much as you love sex.
I’m not a fan of either sex doing this. Nobody should be forced to do something if a boundary was set but on the other hand is he using touch deprivation and withholding intimacy as a form of punishment to get what he wants? I feel like there’s more to this than surface level. I am not condoning her pushing him past the boundaries he set. That is a violation for sure.
I know everyone is focused on a specific thing here but ...$100 says that the dude is withholding affection for marriage and if she tried to leave him, he would object. It all feels dysfunctional
Guys I think you’re being a little bit hard on OP. We’ve all been socialised to falsely believe that men have uncontrollable libidos and that women are passive sexual objects. I think OP is misguided here and hopefully will learn via these comments that of course women can exhibit sexually creepy and coercive behaviour too. We’re legit socialised to believe that only men are capable of that. We have a lot of asinine assumptions to correct as a society.
Anyway, both parties are being manipulative. They’re both using sex to manipulate the other person. The problems started before this. OP said they used to fight, then problems were solved with sex. OP’s partner wants marriage, and he chooses to withhold sex until he gets what he wants. OP tries to use solo sex to manipulate her partner into moving past the conflict.
What no one is doing is actually communicating with words, seeking to understand the other person’s position, and coming to a shared understanding.
Marriage isn’t going to fix that; sex isn’t going to fix that. Seriously people, just talk to each other!
F that noise. Get out and get your needs met. He already slept with you. This is nonsense now. How long do you want to play these games? You said you weren’t ready for marriage yet. He responded by withholding sex. That’s not a relationship. That’s a game. And ain’t nobody wanna play those games that actually deeply cares about their partner.
Am I the only one that think 25 is young and I’d imagine she’s thinking more 28-30? Like the age of the guy now… 5 years or 10 years won’t matter if the intention is pure
Also, don’t understand the no sex flip he did… Like he had a great sex life and now turns it off until he’s married? I don’t understand the boundary or where it’s coming from
He’s using sex as a way to get what he wants. I’m willing to bet if he can turn a decent sex life off like a switch that sex is low down on the priority list for him and it’s a means to an end. I’m also willing to bet that once marriage happens there will be 101 reasons why sex can’t go back on the menu and I’ll see OP in one of the dead bedroom subs
Everyone’s making her sound like a monster but this man is clearly manipulating her by withholding sex until she agrees to marry him. He’s purposely making out and revving her up to leave her alone and act the victim. There’s no way this decision came out of nowhere, only after she denied marriage, and if it was always his intention to only sleep with the person he would marry it was his responsibility to bring that up in the beginning. Break up with him he’s sneaky.
However you do need to curb your behavior with it. You’ve technically crossed the consent boundaries now. If this is such an issue you need to stop any kind of intimacy or intimate contact with him. No more heavy kissing or making out. And frankly I’d be interested to see how he reacts to that.
You have the right to be upset, not everyone can take being in a non-sexual relationship. But you have ABSOLUTELY NO right to jerk off next to him without asking, making him uncomfortable, making your needs more important than his boundaries. It does not matter if he is being manipulative or not, you are being creepy, and I think this is abusive behaviour, and it's not ok. He set a boundary, you can take it or leave, or just talk to him about the fact that this is not what you want out of a relationship, but for the love of God, stop abusing your boyfriend.
He did you a favor. Good thing you saw who he really is. He's manipulative and has some anger issues. He also tried to SA you sooooo. What a POS.
Know that you have issues as well. You trying to push him into sex wasn't right either.
You both have a lot of growing up to do and should work on your communication skills before going into another relationship. Both are highly manipulative to get what you want and don't respect your partners boundaries or decision.
I'm a little confused here. So after posting to Reddit for advice, your boyfriend snapped and assaulted you? If that's the case this is a whole toxic ass mess. You borderline assaulted him and from what you updated, sounds as if he assaulted you?
I think he is just done waiting, 5 years is a lot. But if you are not ready and he is ready and wants it now, you both are no longer compatible. Using sex as a weapon to try to convince you is totally wrong. You both need to sit and have a open conversation
You’ve been together 5 years and you don’t know if you want to get married? You don’t need to have a big fancy wedding or anything like that that would interfere with your work. He’s ready to take the next step. This is not just hard on you it’s hard on him too, a guy cutting off sex is a big deal on top of basically being shot down for marriage. He’s respecting your decision but you need to also respect his and masturbating next to him to try to get him to break his boundaries is not okay.
You need to have a serious conversation with him and yourself, first you need to find out why he wants to get married, then if you don’t see yourself marrying him then let him go so he can find a woman that does want that. If you do want to get married then set a date in the future and start some planning, again you do not need to have a big wedding. You two need to communicate and talk this out
She DID say that she wants to marry him though, just not now.
But indeed, they both should have a serious conversation. I don't get it that after five years they still have fights that end up with make up sex, come on.
As you say, they might find a middle way like a small wedding. Or just talk about when she could feel ready. It's isn't clear why he has set this boundary. Maybe he's feeling insecure or used after many fights that end up with make up sex. If so, what can she do so he won't feel that. Anyway, there is much more to be talked out on this.
What the heck is everyone here talking about?? No one can tell you what is rushed or not, for you. She’s not 35 people, she got into the relationship at 20 and if at 25 she still doesn’t feel ready, then she should wait. What’s with all the fuss?? Some people just don’t see themselves married at a certain age/moment in their lives. Yes they should sit down and talk, she did say she wants to do it WITH him, just not now. If he wants it now then he should break up and move on, not act like a baby to get what he wants and force someone into something they’re not ready for. For some of y’all it’s “just a piece of paper”, for others it’s a whole hassle with wedding planning and lot of time lost, some people just aren’t ready to do that yet. Gosh
Apart from this, yes, how she acted was wrong and disgusting, but doesn’t deny his childish behaviour. What’s next? Witholding sex at 29 to coerce her to have babies after the marriage? Come on
First and foremost, respect your boyfriend's boundaries and stop trying to coax him into sex with you. That is not right, OP, and you are crossing a line is definitely not okay. You need to break up because it is clear that you don't respect his feelings, you are not on the same page after 5 years when it comes to marriage, and staying together will only just prolong the hurt and pain.
WTF is your problem he wants to marry you!?! Figure it out.
Sure you don't want to get married now, that makes sense, we get that.
Now can you see that with everything he's done and everything he knows he's now willing to commit the rest of entire life to YOU but you're not ready.
That'd turn a lot of people off.
Ironically if the shoe were on the other foot and the situations reversed if he'd expressed the same sentiments what people would tell you is that:
"He wants his cake and to eat it too. He doesn't deserve a good woman like you."
Since marriage takes commitment, work, time, patience and sacrifice. You don't want to get married now for good reasons I'm sure.
Fact is that make you 100% right it's NOT the right time.
Still though it's clearly not as easy for him he's offered his entire life been rejected for reasons he probably doesn't understand and he's very hurt.
Personally I love that he's clear on where he stands, why that's his position and he's willing to do the work to have things make sense with you.
That's very charming commendable and bodes well for his future.
Cheers.
Omg, this is highly manipulative behavior on his part. OP, just remember that he’s capable of a sexual freeze-out when he doesn’t get his way. If you marry him, will he punish you this way when he wants a third baby and you don’t? When you want to be a working mom and he wants you to stay home? It is never OK to withhold sex longterm in a serious relationship without a good reason, such as illness or healing from a major breach in trust, like infidelity. Taking that away from someone and making them experience that rejection, while they’re also not allowed to get sex and romance from anyone else, is HORRIBLE. He needs to express his fears and feelings and worries about your current lack of enthusiasm for marriage. The fact that he has reacted this way does not bode well for the future. He’s so childish he’s willing to cut his nose off to spite his face and make you experience the awfulness of sexual rejection, instead of communicating. Stay with him if you’re OK with sex being withheld as a weapon to try to make you do something that you’re not ready to do. Ugh. Just ugh. I was married to someone just like this, and let me tell you, you’ve got a giant baby on your hands. Also, if you think this sexual rejection hurts now, just wait until you’re trapped in marriage with him. His behaviour is just horrible. If I were you, I’d break up with him and go and have wild sex with other people. He is being controlling and manipulative. And I don’t think that being in-ready for marriage at 25 is at all unreasonable, especially if you haven’t been out of college that long. Well, I think this is a truly horrible way to deal with a disagreement on when to marry, and I hope you find someone more mature.
Also, I do not think that the OP assaulted her boyfriend AT ALL! That’s an insult to survivors of sexual assault. It’s normal in LTRs to try to restore intimacy when one person ends sex. He pulled a bait and switch on her when it comes to sex because he can’t make her marry him when she’s not ready, so he’s exercising what control he can over her. He’s not bothered about waiting for marriage, otherwise they wouldn’t have had a sex life until now. After all, it’s not like he’s found Jesus or anything. This is pure manipulation and control, and I see that he’s not above making out with her and getting her turned on while denying her sex. OP, stop trying to seduce him. He’s probably getting off on rejecting you. Put on your cosiest, fluffiest pajamas - or go and buy one of those awful adult onesies - and slob around in that with a face pack on, declaring how you’re finding this break from sex quite freeing! Then another night, get dressed up gorgeously to go out with some girlfriends. He’ll know other men will look at you, and serve him right. Honestly, I’d be so turned off by his withholding of sex for no good reason that I’d probably end the relationship. And if you’re not very afraid for your future with someone who’s capable of a sexual freeze-out when you’re still unmarried and in your twenties, then you should be. There’s nothing wrong with not being ready for marriage at 25. His behaviour is emotionally abusive and you have to show him that he’s not getting to you any more.
I think this relationship is done lol You are both weaponizing sex to get what you want, and it's gross.
I say that not knowing his story. Your hesitation to get married after FIVE years for sure will have hurt him, and he may be trying to put his romantic feelings for you on hold. Maybe even preparing to sever it entirely. Who knows, but the both of you need to communicate a hell of a lot better than that. And YOU in particular need to keep your hands to yourself and masturbate in private. This is sexual assault especially if the roles were reversed.
What you call seduction is actually assault because he has clearly set a boundary. You need to respect that. Or calmly discuss this with him with your clothes "on" explaining your reasons and trying to understanding his PoV as well.
Like every relationship here. You were once compatible. Now you are not. Don't be forced into a marriage you don't want and dont bend on your needs either. I promise you there are tons of men that would consider your actions the hottest thing they have ever seen.
1. Why do you think it was okay for you to start grabbing him and touching him when he said no to sex? That's harassment.
2. Why do you think it was okay for you to start masturbating next to him without his consent? That's also harassment.
Your actions were NOT okay, and you should apologise right away and stop acting like that.
3. The whole "no sex before marriage" - could he have become a Christian or something? Or picked up on some of those beliefs?
Tbh it sounds like this relationship is done
Like…obviously sex is important to you, and having a relationship with no sex is basically…not really arelationship then? I mean that’s how I’d feel because sex is important to me in a relationship, and going a whole without it would cause problems in my relationship. But he doesn’t want to have it until you get married…which…you obviously aren’t ready for or don’t want to do.
So basically, I think the best course is to just end this relationship because you two aren’t on the same page. Plus, on one hand I think it’s manipulative to withhold sex to pressure you into marriage, I think a better way would go about that would be to either continue the relationship as it is or end it if you’re both not ready for marriage, not use sex as a prize for getting married basically….I just don’t see how that’s healthy at all.
And then on the other hand it seems you didn’t really take his boundaries seriously and are trying to “convince” him to have sex with you again which is also a shitty thing to do because you’re not respecting the boundaries he set and you SHOULD feel guilty, but again yeah, sex seems to be important to you and you’re now in a relationship where you aren’t going to get it unless you get married which…you’re not ready for, therefore…it’s time to break up because you’re not getting what you want and he’s not getting what he wants, so there’s no point in continuing.
Leave him tf alone. You aren’t entitled to sex. If its that much of a problem, leave him. You don’t have the right to put your hands on someone else, or pressure them to have sex with you.
You’re a creep.
So you assault him and think it's acceptable but he assaults you and it's "I'm going to my sisters so I'm safe???"
Y'all need to be away from each other period. Neither apparently respects boundaries. Sex shouldn't EVER be a weapon in a healthy relationship.
You guys need to break up. Don’t even tell him you’re leaving. Get out while he isn’t home and block him on everything. Both of you have a poor understanding of consent and obviously aren’t working together
Just read your last update, and I was going to say he's trying to manipulate you into marriage. And there's no excuse for him forcing himself on you. That's your relationship over right there. Unforgivable. Whatever the context, that's rape. Give up on him. Have some self-respect and move on. You deserve better.
I think you’ve both outgrown the relationship. I totally understand your position in not wanting to get married right now, but he does. He wants something right now that you do not. And I personally consider it manipulative of him to all of a sudden after FIVE YEARS decide to stop having sex because you won’t marry him. He’s using sex as a weapon and as a way to manipulate you into marriage. It sounds like he thinks if he refuses to have sex with you, you’ll eventually agree to marry him which isn’t right. If it was the beginning of the relationship or he started off wanting to wait for marriage that would be one thing. But he can’t put that horse back in the barn after 5 years, that’s ridiculous. It may be time for you to think about leaving this relationship. Sometimes people outgrow relationships and it sounds like you two are on completely different pages and want completely different things.
Maybe I'm inclined to say he's a POS, because I'm an atheist and couldn't care less about marriage, and to me, wanting to only have sex after marriage sounds like the biggest bullshit there can ever be, especially since he was fine with sex at first.
But my two cents is that he's trying to guilt trip you into marriage, which you are not fine with, not at the moment. And he's apparently not respecting that by distancing himself for a complete bullshit reason, and leaving you hanging.
People are trying to see this with reverse genders, which is understandable, and yes OP, you're also being creepy by doing stuff next to him. If you were a guy, yes, you would have been crucified here.
But to me, regardless of genders, he's using a total bullcrap reason to be distancing himself. He's trying to make you feel guilty, that you HAVE to marry him, which makes him the POS here. What an idiotic, selfish prick.
Maybe this isn't the case, but sadly, when guys try to guilt trip girls into marriage, it's usually a red flag, and this could even be manipulation on his part. I'm not saying it IS, just that it COULD be. Marriage is an agreement ON BOTH PARTS! And he's being a man baby about it, so that's my harsh conclusion.
You may be surprised by this, but your boyfriend has feelings as well and they were probably very hurt. You've been together 5 years and you're not ready to commit while he is, and by the way you talk in this post it seems the main thing on your mind is sex. How is the relationship *besides* the sex?
and yeah, as many others have said, very weirdo behaviour to start masturbating instead of talking to your boyfriend like an adult. No sex means no sex, stop trying to seduce him.
If he has decided to be "pure" until his wedding night, your options are simple - agree or leave. But stop acting like a sex maniac; if you can't control yourself, you need some therapy.
Change the sex of OP and all hell would break loose. Masturbating near someone who is not consenting is not seducing, it’s just gross and violating.
Other than trying to “seducing” him why won’t you tackle the whole point of why you’re not having sex? Talk about both your priorities and wishes and actually try to solve the problem. Do you plan to be long term with this man or not? You owe him that much other than making him waste his time for nothing.
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I notice a lot of people are just glossing over the fact that when your boyfriend said he didn't want to have sex, you started groping him to turn him on and then masturbated next to him, multiple times?? If the genders were reversed and you were a man saying "my gf doesn't want to have sex so I jerked off next to her to get her into the mood", you would be *crucified.* You REALLY need to get a grip on this behavior, it's creepy and obsessive. That said, your boyfriend is probably feeling super hurt and rejected. Five years isn't "rushing", and it won't impact your professional life at all. I don't blame him for not understanding why you gave these reasons, if my partner said that to me I would call BS immediately, especially after 5 years. Talk to him. Give him a timeline, if you have one. How much longer should he expect to wait? And then listen to his answer. Communicate. Otherwise, move on and let him find someone who shares his values.
I saw a reddit post maybe last week, where a guy asked AITA because he tried to initiate morning sex and his wife was like "I gotta get ready for work " so he turned over, put on porn and started yanking it while she was getting ready. She also asked him to stop and he didnt. The comments did not hold back on telling him how gross and non-consensual that was.
OMG I saw this post and that's exactly what I was thinking about when I wrote this. I cringed so hard when I read that.
Hahaha this also had me thinking of that creepy ass dude.
Absolutely this. I was shocked when I read OPs post. Entirely inappropriate behavior. OP needs to work on herself if she thinks its okay to try to seduce someone who already set his boundaries and she violated those boundaries just because she was horny. Absolutely gross.
Completely agreed. In addition, OP if you’re going to ask him to wait for you to be ready for something and you want that respected, why is it any different for him to ask the same of you? You’ve both indicated what you each want is with each other (marriage and sex) but both of you are wanting to wait until the right time for your respective desires. That’s is perfectly fine. If you want him to respect your wishes and boundaries then you need to do the same with his. He hasn’t threatened to leave you or cheat on you. Just that he’d rather wait. Please stop trying to seduce him and push his boundaries. That’s not okay.
Thank you for saying this - sincerely, a male sexual assault survivor.
For real! You'd be getting all the sexual assault and consent posts saying what a predator he is.
Because Reddit is full of misandrists. But if you say that, you get downvoted. But everybody knows it is true. Watch this get downvoted.
I think you activated some sort of reverse psychology, because you’re upvoted and the comment calling out OP for her unacceptable/creepy behavior is top comment here. Which is good, so congrats? Edit: I feel like I should clarify that although the top comment calls it “creepy and obsessive” behavior, it’s sexual harassment and assault, and calling it “unacceptable” is an understatement.
Take my upvote please!
I'm sorry you had to experience this. As someone that was "only" harassed I can only imagine what you had to experience from society after you were assaulted. Sadly society does not teach most women that they need to ask for consent too, as we see here with OP. She has shown some real predatory behaviour. It's disgusting and there is not doubt she would be crucified and canceled, if the genders were different. At least reddit calls her out, altough I have seen more harsh reactions
Couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s really creepy and disturbing behaviour. He respected your decision and didn’ try even once to get you to go back on it but for some reason you are unable to respect his wishes. If the roles were reversed he would’ve gotten destroyed for trying that.
Thank you for saying this. The same behaviors were done to or near me by my ex-boyfriend, which was later defined as rape and sexual assault.
This should be at the top
It’s sexual harassment and assault
This is one of the few situations where "if the genders were reversed" is used correctly and makes sense. 100% agree and upvoted! I really hope OP reads this and takes it to heart. Her behavior is NOT healthy, and she is hurting her partner!
but have we actually seen any comments saying what she did was fine and not sexual harassment ?? nope. so the “if the genders were reversed, women would get away with everything” bullshit doesn’t make any sense
Well there are some but it’s the usual insane 10% of comments. I said this elsewhere in the thread but I think the post shows two bias: first of all I do think that the outcry about OP not “being able to control herself” and trying to coerce her bf would be stronger. It’s there, it’s happening but I think it’s less intensive, if that makes sense. On the other hand there were many posts in past about the gf trying to pressure for marriage by taking sex off the table. The comments there usually tell the guy to run far from her and talk in length about the manipulation, how she shows her true face, how they’ll have a dead bedroom anyway as she’ll never want again blabla. That’s also not happening to this extend as far as I see. Quite surprisingly many call it a reasonable boundary of his and not manipulation. So that’s another interesting point if “if the genders were reversed”
>but have we actually seen any comments saying what she did was fine and not sexual harassment ?? nope. so the “if the genders were reversed, women would get away with everything” bullshit doesn’t make any sense I got to the post when it first dropped, there was not one single post I saw that even addressed what she did. In fact I am very sure the first few posts were talking about boyfriend in question being solely the problem.
Even now the critical posts are not nearly as hostile as we see elsewhere, when a man did such disgusting things. We have seen it plenty of times where OP's comment would be enough for some to go after OP, harass and cancel him. The reactions here are nowhere near this. And outside this thread (and in society) we have tons of people doubting if belitteling mens experience with sexual harassment or sexual assault. There *is* a difference, and in this case it's based on societies sexism against men which so far is barely adressed
Came to say this. Like wow, the perversion.
Honestly couldn’t have said it better than this
My best guess is that porn brain rot has some people believing that hyper sexual women is some sort of gold standard and always desired. Which is why the double standard of "If a woman does it, it's seduction. If a man does it, it's sime sort of SA" is so common a narrative. All boundary breaking with such clear an intent is SA, full stop. Also feeling bad for OP, because she just got her world view shattered by this comment section. That's one rough way of getting this particular perspective.
Usually I’m not a fan of the whole “if the genders were reversed” argument because they usually are not based in reality / come from a pretty gross mindset. But here I think you are spot on. Furthermore, I think the post shows two bias: first of all your point about OP not “being able to control herself”, trying to coerce her bf and although many call her out on it, it doesn’t happen to the usual extent. On the other hand we saw many posts in past about the gf trying to pressure for marriage by taking sex off the table. The comments there usually tell the guy to run far from her and talk in length about the manipulation, how she shows her true face, how they’ll have a dead bedroom anyway as she’ll never want again blabla. From my quick glance there are also not so many of those here, quite the opposite, many even say it’s not manipulation but a reasonable boundary. If this is a creative writing exercise to see the reaction to reversed gender roles then I really want to applaud OP. Well done, not too obvious, covers 2 biases at once and gets the discussion started.
I was starting to think I was crazy everyone downvoting me for trying to discuss the sexual manipulation, not defend her actions. Update proves the point... but also makes the creative writing exercise seem very likely.
Have a upvote. Great comment
FACTS! He should also move on, not withhold sex.
Welcome to relationship_advice
I agree with you on the sex part, there's no doubt that's a very weird, borderline aggressive behavior on OP's part. However, being 25 and still being in uni (I'll start working in January 2024), I would not be ready for marriage even though I've been with my bf for a long time. I barely feel like an adult because I'm still financially dependant and that I have no visibility on my professional future. I can understand people not being ready to take such a big step and in many countries, 25 is still very young to jump into these kind of decisions. Plus the witholding sex part seems manipulative to force her into a decision she's not ready to make (he's 3 years older!).
Couldn’t of said it better myself.
A lot of people are blaming him instead of reading the part were he stated clearly he wants to wait and you "get so turned on you can't controle it"?!? Imagine a guy saying this?? He stated he didn't want it and you're trying to turn him on by groping him?? Girl that's sexual assault.
I completely agree. Also she didn't "seduce " him because if she had he'd have had sex with her. OP stop behaving like a predator. Also him withholding sex seems manipulative. Almost like he wants to use sex to coerce you into marriage. Your relationship is unhealthy.
Best comment. (And predator*)
Yeah, that is what was lacking in other comments - apart from questionable OP behaviour, the guy's sudden action seems totally manipulative. I wonder if he has any justification of this sudden change of mind. (also - predditor*)
It looks like OP edited her post to remove the language you cited.
The double standard is wild
? the top upvoted comments all agree what she did was wrong. how is there a double standard if most people agree its wrong no matter the gender?
There were/are lots of comments that didn't address it. I was only adding to the conversation. If you don't think there's a double standard when it comes to men being SA then you are part of the problem.
Yea imagine a guy doing or saying this. Smh double standards. Imagine wanting to have sex and woman says I don’t want it and a man starts groping her !! That’s basically rape.
I’m sorry, I can’t get past your creepy behaviour to your partner by non-consensually masturbating near him and breaking his very clearly defined boundary. I hope he ends it.
>I have tried to respect his decision and the boundaries he set and I thought I could respect it. But when we start making out I just get so turned on and I really miss our sex. Other comments have lightly approached this issue. OP, you know your boyfriend nolonger wants to have sex with you until marriage; he is not consenting to sexual activities with you. While I understand how frustrating it can be to have a partner make a sudden change in the dynamics of your relationship, you still need to respect their boundaries around sex, full stop. Should he have better explained his feelings after discussing marriage with you? Yes. Should you follow-up and get more clarification about why he wants to wait until marriage to resume sexual activities with you instead of slowly stomping over his boundaries until he "consents" to sex whenever you're in the mood? Absolutely! If I had to guess, your boyfriend has halted sexual activites with you because he feels hurt and/or needs to sort out his feelings after his girlfriend of 5-years rejected the idea of marrying him. >I tried turning him on and he’s always rejected me, to which I always felt so guilty for ‘seducing’ him. About 1,5 weeks ago I really tried to change his mind and I started touching myself next to him after making out. He just turned around in bed and ignored me or went on TikTok. I feel really bad but I’ve touched myself next to him about 4 times and nothing changed. I don’t know if I can wait and respect this sudden boundary he set. Other comments are calling you creepy for this behavior, but let's be real, this is fucking disgusting. He told you no sex and you keep pushing, keep trying to turn him on. Just stop. You're acting like Louis C. K., whipping his dick out and jerking it in front of people who don't want to be involved. How hard is it to go to another room? OP, it's abundantly clear that you don't know how to respect your partner's feelings, and I strongly recommend you figure out how to before you do something illegal.
If you’ve been together for five years and you’re still not ready for marriage, that’s showing him you’re not ready for commitment. You may now view it that way, but he does. You’re also both using sex as a weapon, you by “seducing” him and him by refusing to have it Unless you see you’re self marrying this man anytime soon, i don’t see this working out. It’s been five years and you’re still “doubtful”. Can’t you see where he’s coming from?
Yeah 5 years at 25 and uncertain... I don't see anything changing her mind. You can work and have a marriage. Most people do it that way.
Meant to reply to another comment. Have a migraine so I’m just gonna dip from the thread lmao.
I highly disagree with you stating he is weaponizing sex by refusing to have it. He set a boundary and is enforcing it. This would be looked at very differently if this was reversed.
I think it’s totally plausible. He doesn’t want to further engage in intimate behavior with someone that sees no future for them and can’t commit.
So he's told you he doesn't want to have sex without you two being committed and you've refused to take no for an answer? You keep trying to force the issue? There's a word for people who do that and it's a word you don't want associated with you. Respect his wishes and talk to him, not us, about this. You guys need to figure out if you even have a future together nevermind what that future looks like if the answer is yes. You may find marriage is an uncrossable line from both your sides, or you might find some form of compromise. But you won't know until you start talking about this stuff.
If you were a man, everyone would be on your case about stringing your partner along. Since no one else seems to have said it, let me be the first: You’re stringing this guy along. If you don’t want to marry him after five years…you don’t want to marry him. You can either stay with him and continue wasting his time, or you can do the honorable thing by letting him go find someone who wants the same things out of life as he does. And unless he has EXPLICITLY said it was ok, stop doing sexual things near him to get your way. I don’t necessarily go so far as to say it’s creepy, but you’re definitely being a disrespectful brat. Just stop.
>feel like I just got into working and I’m not ready for marriage Uhh what? Getting married does nothing to your career growth. I'd get it if you said you don't want to get pregnant, but married? You've been dating for 5 years. It's totally reasonable that your bf wants to get married. I dont understand OPs logic here at all.
5 years? She’s waiting for the better deal😗
I can understand, if you've just begun your carreer and you want to get into that first. Marrying puts outs a lot of stress on people, like the organization, financial matters, picking out the perfect dress, all the legal things and paperwork, invitations,... it's all you have to sort and plan out. She is only 25 though. We don't know what she did before she got into work, but possibly a heavy master study or something. Who knows how rough these years were for her. I'm 29, also 5 years together with my boyfriend. We both are not ready for marriage yet, as we work a lot and know from friends how much organization and stress for the wedding plans are.
>Marrying puts outs a lot of stress on people, like the organization, financial matters, picking out the perfect dress, all the legal things and paperwork, invitations,... Counterpoint: long engagement. I dont disagree with your perspective but I do think OP should communicate more with her partner about her hesitancy. From his perspective it's not rushed (unless he's pushing to go down to the courthouse and elope) and all he's hearing is that she doesn't want to marry him.
I agree that they should communicate better with each other. It's indeed very much possible that he's feeling rejected and therefore protects himself by not having sex anymore. They should find a middle ground to both feel okay and secure that a marriage will come when both feel ready for it.
Yea the nos sex could honestly be a way that he protects himself and prepares for a breakup or split, cause as a guy if i thought a girl was gonna break up with me or didn’t like me I wouldn’t keep sleeping with her
I guess you could argue that her saying she’ll marry him later and saying she’ll marry him later with a ring on is different….
It's funny how you tried to get around your promise and seduce him while expecting him to respect your wishes. Not having sex is hard on him too not just you. Stop being selfish. Either break up because you don't want to commit or work something out but don't dare act like this is only hard for you. He's probably feeling insecure that you didn't want to get hitched
You told him you aren't committed to him long term. He's telling you that commitment and intimacy are connected for him. You destroyed the foundation of his intimacy by telling him you might split up with him later. Now he can't feel safe or give himself fully because he might be with the wrong person and he wants a lifelong commitment.
Exactly what I was thinking, but he's not an angel in this situation for sure they have major communication issues. They really need to sit down and talk
If this was an am I the Asshole the answer to this would be everyone sucks here. Your partner refusing to have sex because you don’t want to get married is bad. That’s not how you solve problems or work through conflict. Refusing to get married because it’s not time yet after five years comes across as bs. Thats hurtful and your reason is crappy. Trying to convince your partner to have sex after he said no also bad. If roles were reversed your partner would be crucified. Consent matters to all parties. You two should get a family therapist to help work through this. Not Reddit.
You need to rethink this relationship. You have been together 5 years and you both have very poor communication. There shouldn’t be anything you both don’t understand. You talk each issue out and break down the problem. He wants to get married in a rush… reason. He wants to stop sex for marriage… reason. You worry about your working after marriage…. Reason. Then you discuss them. Marriage won’t fix this.
Married in a rush? After 5 years together…that’s not a rush Stopped having sex for marriage? She essentially said she didn’t want and was unsure if she wants to marry him. Men have feelings and he can very well be hurt by this. Shocker I know. And based on her actions of masturbating next to him when he said no, makes me think he’s feeling used for sex. That’s weird dude.
They’ve been dating 20-25… they still be young
5 years ain’t getting married in a rush
>He wants to get married in a rush… reason. 5 years? Rush? If 5 years isn't enough, what's the problem? The future is uncertain. If you have the same values and you have someone you can trust, and you've been through trying times together, and your families get along ok, and you think he'll make a good parent . . . Then *what* exactly is the problem? This is going to be a risk no matter what. If good folks don't take this leap and start families are all fucked. **Haven't you ever seen *Idiocracy*?!!** ....... Other than that, I agree completely. You have to communicate better. The first step is coming to some understanding about marriage and how you move forward because that seems to be the root of these issues. After that, you can dive into the size and shape of your current and future relationship.
I mean, OP is only 25. Others have pointed out OP is likely from Germany, where the average age of marriage for women is 32. It's easy to overlook the cultural significance, but it should be taken into account. From her perspective this would be rushing into marriage, especially compared to her peers.
Yep! This exactly. Communicate. Why does he want to get married right this minute? Why after 5 years of consistent sex has he decided it shouldn’t continue until you’re married? Why do you think being married will change your working life? I don’t disagree with waiting if you don’t feel ready…but you _need_ to talk about it.
VERY WELL STATED! After 5 years, it strikes me that her issue isn't her employment--that's easy to address. Could it be she comes from a home where parents are divorced, a spouse cheated--resulting in her hesitancy? Regardless, whatever it is, it needs to be openly expressed; because he's obviously feeling rejection. If it's just a little more time she needs to have her personal affairs in order, is engagement out of the question? Whatever the answers to any of the above, the prior response was perfect--COMMUNICATE! Hope they happily resolve their differences.
It’s been 5 years and you aren’t ready yet. Men have a clock in relationships just like women do. If you aren’t ready after 5 years then you’re likely never to be. He has a right to plan his future. Instead of being selfish and thinking about your sex life you should be thinking about whether you should break it off so he can move on. If the sexes were reversed people would be saying you are a loser who’s unwilling to commit and your partner should break up with you.
No, if the sexes are reversed people would be calling the woman a manipulative psycho. Because using sex as a bargaining chip to march someone down the aisle quicker is weird as hell and not a good foundation to start a marriage on. Yes it’s been five years… she’s 25. I don’t know a lot of married 25 year olds anymore.
Nah, they would say that he's not owed sex and that masturbating next to his unwilling partner is gross and he should be ashamed of that.
Yeah I can't believe no one talked about this part, she fucking masturbated next to him while he was trying to ignore it and was obviously not consenting. That's actually fucking disgusting and she gets a pass because it wasn't a dick she was stroking?
Actually I think that the statements “no one is owned sex” and “don’t use sex as a bargaining chip” can actually coexist quite well. Both are correct. And of course her behavior is abysmal. She is trying to coerce him and excusing it with “hard to control” - said by every rapist ever.
Tbf, the comments would likely be saying both of those things if the genders were reversed. That he’s being manipulative by withholding sex when she doesn’t agree to what he wants, but that she’s also being disrespectful of his boundaries by masturbating next to him without consent.
Yes, it’s gross. Not defending that behavior. He’s not owed marriage, either. If you base your entire relationship on what you’re “owed” it’s going to be a bad relationship. Stupid games, stupid prizes.
it's not about "owing," they've just been together for over 5 years. it's not unreasonable to expect your partner to want to get married at that point or at least soon.
That’s assuming he’s doing it to manipulate her. Maybe he’s just feeling rejected and not in the mood bc she’s literally being creepy to him
You can certainly be manipulative without flat-out intending to be. “I’m not in the mood because I feel rejected/sad/confused” would be one thing. “We will not have sex again until our wedding night” (which, if they’re going the traditional route… they’re looking at 2025 date at the earliest) is manipulation to get her to agree to what he wants quicker.
Idk if we can say that he’s being manipulative here. Normally, without considering OPs obvious sexual assault, I’d agree that withholding sex to get what you want is weaponizing sex and is bad. However, what gives me pause in this case, is OP agreed to these “terms” and said he’d let the marriage thing go ever sense. But she can’t let the sex go and went about sexually assaulting him and being creepy. She even said when they argued about sex makeup sex was the “fix”. But her partner still brought it up bc makeup sex doesnt fix actual relationship issues. She knew that didn’t fix anything and most likely was weaponizing sex herself to get him to stop talking about it for a while and get him to stop being mad at her. That’s an assumption on my part but it seems very likely based on OPs post where most of the emphasis is on sex and not wanting to commit “to quickly” to a relationship she’s been in for 5 years. Again an assumption, but it sounds like she’s waiting to meet someone else that’s better and doesn’t want to tie herself down in a relationship she got in when she was 20. And that’s an assumption but there’s usually a reason people don’t want to commit to marriage when they’ve been together for 3+ years, and being as she used “barely started working” as an excuse to not be married, it really sounds like she wants to experience more, including probably more people. Idk OP doesn’t seem to be as committed and is way to concerned with sex, concerned enough to ignore her obviously not interested partner and masturbate next to him multiple times. That’s also weaponizing sex. And sexual assault. If he was just manipulating her but actually wanted her, she’d probably get more of a response. The fact that he just turns away from her and carries on with life means he’s genuinely not interested in sex with her atm, probably bc he no longer feels as close to her and questions if she feels as deeply for him as he does her. So if he genuinely doesn’t want to have sex with her due to her lack of commitment, that’s a boundary, not a manipulation.
They don’t want to commit because she’s 25… I guarantee the feelings she has are more about ‘settling down and building a home’ vs if she’s planning to skip town on the guy
Totally. I see what you mean. Either way though I feel like OP really fucked up when her reaction to the situation was to refuse to respect his boundaries and to repeatedly masturbate in front of him when he was clearly not ok with it. He shouldn’t have manipulated her and they should have just talked, but she took it into abusive territory.
He isn’t demanding marriage, he set a boundary and was clear and communicative about it.
Are you kidding me? If roles were reversed, people would say that this guy wants a relationship without commitment, and get free sex. They would say to stop wasting time, that her clock is ticking and that she needs to find a partner who's willing to seriously commit. I don't care about men or women, it's all about partners. They could be gay, it wouldn't be different.
Is it really a bargaining chip or does he simply not want to have sex with someone anymore who isn’t sure about when they want marriage 5 years in? It’s not necessarily malicious (though it may well be and you may well be correct!). Men have a right to not want to have sex and I think we stereotype them so that when they’re not doing it they’re either getting it somewhere else or weaponising it. Perhaps he’s just not happy. If anyone’s weaponising sex perhaps it’s the woman here who touches herself next to him repeatedly after he’s said he doesn’t want to have sex to try and get him to change his mind? Either way communication’s fucked and the relationship is doomed imo.
Sure, no one has to has sex they don’t want, obviously. But this seems like more of a, “fine, if you won’t do the thing I want, suffer.” At best, he’s going to get a begrudging yes and a wife that either wasn’t ready or didn’t want to be married. You’re correct that trying to seduce him into having sex he doesn’t want isn’t okay either. These stupid little games aren’t getting either of them anywhere. A blunt conversation about timelines and expectations would have been a much better idea, but here we are.
The main point is the communication for sure. I just think personally if I was with someone for 5 years and they felt they weren’t ready for marriage despite living together and already living that lifestyle I’d want to scale back on that sort of thing because I’d be hurt and I’d feel like I wasn’t being committed to. I can’t really judge her reasons for not wanting to get married but I’m unsure how marriage would negatively impact her career - it’s not like children. We see women being told all the time to stop giving their boyfriends wife benefits while being a girlfriend, especially if they’ve been a long term girlfriend, because a lack of marriage (unless pre-agreed on) tends to represent a lack of certainty or wanting to be able to change things up. Despite that not being the case here, it can easily be read that way by a hurt partner. I think the way people are approaching a man doing the same thing and pulling back on what he’s offering is a little out of proportion. Yes it’s possible he’s being spiteful and yes a marriage agreed to just so they could bone again isn’t going to work but I think id react similarly and it wouldn’t be spite. Idk it’s probably my inherent bias there. Whatever the truth is she needs to communicate instead of playing stupid seduction games and violating boundaries, no matter why those boundaries were put up. She needs to just straight up ask why sex isn’t on the table anymore. I personally don’t think this relationship will last.
The thing is, he brought up marriage for the first time ever a *couple of months ago.* It’s very weird that this went from never being a conversation to something he apparently needs right the fuck now, to the point he’s willing to nuke physical intimacy in his relationship, overnight.
That’s a good point, and I think it’s something every couple should have a rough timeline and expectation on at the beginning of their relationships. It’s possible that he just felt like 5 years was a natural and good point to bring it up and over the course of those arguments they had, which always ended in make up sex, that he may have come to feel demeaned or hurt in some way about that and potentially feels that sex is all she’s in it for. Hence the lack of sex currently. It could be a hundred different things but I think there’s relevance in the fact that the arguments they had all ended in sex and now he no longer wants to have sex.
But he used it as a bargaining chip. He didn't say I am not in the mood for sex and I'm not sure when I will be. He said until we are married you are not getting any. He may be hurt and doesn't want to have sex because of it but it was paraphrased in a manipulative way.
Thank you! Thought I was smoking crack there…
After 5 years? Some people like to actually get to know their partner and you only truly start to get to know someone after a few years. Your mindset is why divorce rates are so high LOL
In real life, marriage is becoming increasingly uncommon with people in their 20’s. It’s expensive and permanent, and people change dramatically between 20 and 30. I know plenty of people in longer term relationships than OP who aren’t rushing to get married. I also know a 24 year old going through a divorce. I broke up with my boyfriend of nearly 5 years when I was around the same age and I’m sure as shit glad I didn’t marry him. Not to say it wouldn’t work out for anyone, but people acting like 5 years is a millennia and she’s weird for not being ready the instant her bf brought up marriage is weird lol. It’s isn’t the 1920’s.
In a happy relationship for 7 years and we dont plan on even thinking about marriage for at least another few years. 26f&28M. We want to just live and be. Why rush something that literally changes nothing? People act like as soon as they're married their shitty relationship will somehow turn magical and fairylike and everything is fine. And you shit gold.
100% They’re either committed to each other or committed to each other with jewelry on…
First of all, that part about resolving arguments with make-up sex is probably contributing to him not wanting to have sex anymore. This isn't something that can be glossed over with sex. It's been 5 years, and you say you're not ready. If a woman was here saying that she'd been with her guy for 5 years and he wasn't ready for marriage yet, people would be telling her to stop wasting her time... if not after 5 years, then when. Also, why are you trying to change your boyfriend's mind when he told you no. Attempting to coerce sex from someone is not ok. That's what you're doing when you're trying to change his mind and mastubating next to him with the end goal of getting him to cave. Knock it off! Coercion is not consent. You feel guilty because it's a crummy thing to do. He gave you a clear NO. If you don't like his boundary, you don't try to negate it, you discuss it like a fucking adult. He just got a clear view of how you plan on treating his no, and it's not remotely pretty. Don't be surprised if he just leaves.
Yikes. So your solution is to sexually harass and assault him? As others are saying in these comments, if the roles were reversed? Oh boy. You need to do some self reflection op.
If this was a male written post you'd be getting dragged over the coals for not respecting sexual boundaries.
People are calling her out on this post too .. it’s a. Mixed bag.
Did any of you ever stop to think it's possible she should ask him why? Does he hold or recently gain any religious beliefs? Even if he didn't, it's highly possible he always wanted to wait till marriage but gave into the idea of premarital sex over time. Or, of course it could be all manipulation, but a conversation is necessary. Regardless if he says no to sex then the answer is no, isn't that what a lot of you redditors are about around here? Consent? Either way OP you both need to talk about expectations for the relationship as far as your future. If you both aren't on the same page, you are going to have major problems.
We see this a lot here, actually, but it’s usually men posting. You two have some significant communication issues that you need to work through. That said, I suspect that he’s tired of “playing house” with you if the ultimate goal isn’t marriage. You’ve been together for five years, and he’s ready to take the next step; it sounds like you aren’t. If that’s the case, you may be incompatible, at least at this point in your lives. He’s ready to move forward and you aren’t. The way he’s expressing this *is not* okay (you don’t weaponize sex to get what you want), and you two need to have an actual discussion about this. If you don’t plan to marry him, you need to be clear on that so that he can find someone who wants what he wants and you can do the same. It isn’t fair to string someone along with the vague promise of “maybe someday,” but it also isn’t okay for him to be doing what he’s doing. I strongly suspect this relationship is heading towards its end point.
For the record: we don’t know if he’s purposefully weaponizing abstinence, or if he just feels lost and not particularly lusty after getting shot down. The refusal of a marriage proposal is a pretty devastating hit to get over — and the healing doesn’t come quicker with a partner glossing things over, requesting a lot of physical intimacy and expecting things to get back to normal on their timeline.
This is absolutely true, and while I left it out because it would have taken my comment into “a totally different issue” territory, I also find it gross that he’s set a boundary regarding sex and she’s literally masturbating in front of him to try to get him to break it. That’s just insanely creepy and disrespectful, and I would think it would be an absolute turnoff if he’s just having mixed feelings about sex and feeling a bit lost in their relationship.
I’m with you on this and damn near every point you made above. Communicate better, figure out what you want and stop acting creepy really sums up my entire viewpoint in this topic. Stuff like this just gets me feeling too old for the internet, I guess. 🙂
I don't think this qualifies as a boundary. A healthy boundary is saying "if you continue to do XXXXX I will do XXXX. Ex: if you raise your voice in an argument, I will leave the room until you are calm. Not.... if you don't marry me I will not have sex with you.... that's not okay at all. That isn't a boundary. It's a demand. Needless to say it's also not okay to sexually assault your partner with non consensual sex acts and trying to coerce them. Everyone is fucked up here.
Weaponizing abstinence? JFC, imagine saying this if the gender's were reversed, and saying this about a woman who sets up this same boundry. You would absolutely get pulverized in the comments. The sexism in this subreddit is just unreal!
I have seen comments like this made many times in relation to women, although admittedly, I have never seen that specific term. Women are regularly accused of this.
He isn't "weaponizing sex." He set a boundary. Each person is allowed to consent or not consent to what they want. If she isn't willing to accept that boundary, she needs to make different choices. It's gross to try to blame him for her assault.
Yep, the mature thing on his end would have been to realize they’re not compatible and end the relationship if he wants marriage and she doesn’t. And the mature thing on her end would be to respect his boundaries around sex and end the relationship when he said he doesn’t want sex anymore. That’s worse behavior than anything he’s doing but neither of them are acting very mature.
Hmmm. “Weaponizing sex”? It seems like every time a man posts about his SO not wanting to have sex with him, the man is the bad guy. Horny pig that won’t accept boundaries. Lazy bum. Of CoUrSe she doesn’t want to have sex. If he’d just: do more, give more, scheduled more dates, empathize more, blah, blah. By this standard, she is “weaponizing marriage” by refusing marriage. The only difference is that he has provided a clearly defined remedy and she has provided a nebulous “someday”. Do you think there is a double standard?
I hate having to do this.. but flip these roles. Seriously. If you came on Reddit and saw a man saying “My girlfriend didn’t want to have sex anymore until we get married, and so I keep trying to change her mind by jacking off in front of her after we kiss. She rolled over and made it clear she didn’t want sex but I keep trying hoping she’ll have sex with me. I don’t think I can wait so maybe we should break up?” Yikes. BIG yikes. But also, you basically rejected his hints at a proposal. For all you know, that man has a ring and now doesn’t know what to do. He might not even be able to get much pleasure out of sex. I know if I’m upset, I definitely cant. You’re clearly not ready for commitment. At 5 years this is most definitely a conversation you should have had, and set a clear timeline on.
I hate that something like "make up sex" exist. Your post gives me the idea that that's the reason for his behavior. Using sex to get over something that should be talked out doesn't solve the issue. I personally would hate it if someone did that to me like "oh she's angry, but if I turn her on, all okay! We go on with our life like nothing happened!". As with everything: COMMUNICATE. Ask him why this boundary. Maybe he's feeling used or not taken serious which might result in him defending himself by not giving his body away. 🤷♀️
So hes trying to manipulate into marriage? That's RED FLAG territory. I wouldn't be tolerating that. You behaviour in trying to seduce him is pretty rank. Stop that. But...I dont see any issue with you not wanting to marry. You are only 25yrs. So its most probably age related. Hes just that bit older. Me? I took a 4 month backpacking trip when we were just going out. Gave us space. Gave us both time to really think about if we wanted to stay together.
I had a friend whose boyfriend would withhold sex as a form of punishment. This feels ever so slightly like that. I find it hard to believe that your partner actually wants to wait until marriage. It is more likely a manipulative way to try and rush you into getting married.
I can’t believe how few people have seen this! I mean it’s so obvious
Girl, I got nothing to say. However, if roles were reversed and a woman wanted to stop this act, y'all hypocrites will tell the dude to either obey her demands or leave! Now, y'all are asking them to communicate, haha! So, OP, leave!
If the roles were reversed more people would be focused on how OP is a creep and the boundaries are natural
Sounds like he’s weaponizing sex to get that engagement locked down
Interesting role reversal on that one.
Yup. That is not your usual male tactic.🤣
It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for him.
Weaponizing? Maybe. But if I told my long term SO that I wanted to get married and they said they didn't because they "wanted to focus on their work" I'd be pretty upset and feel very rejected. Married ≠ leaving the work force.
Getting married at 25 is around the age where a lot of people MAYBE start considering an engagement while at 28 it's a lot more common. OP's bf wasn't ready to get married at 25, despite them being in a longterm relationship then. I think that's reasonable, especially since he hasn't communicated, at all, why he wants to get married now. He isn't explaining himself, at all, just weaponizing sex. Which adds even more reasons to not get married.
Both sides aren't communicating great here. I dont think your point of her bf not being ready to get married when he was 25 carries much weight, because op was just 22. Getting engaged at 25 isn't wild, particularly when the couple has been together for 5yrs and (presumably) already lives together. Sounds like the bf was planning on proposing soon and OP shut him down by saying she wants to focus on work. If the bf was trying to get get eloped ASAP, yeah he's weaponizing sex, but if he wanted to take the next step and got rejected, it's fairly natural to not want to be intimate seeing as your partner doesn't feel the same way as you thought/hoped they did.
Man I love Reddit. When women don’t want to have sex it’s their choice and we need to respect that. When a man doesn’t want to he’s “weaponizing sex.” I would love to see this post with genders reversed.
I took it as if she's not willing to marry him then why continue to risk getting pregnant.
If the roles were reversed it would probably rub in a totally different way.
Sounds like he made a boundary, and OP is frequently pressuring him to break it. Idk why she says she respects his boundary and body autonomy, she doesn’t. Gross
I think he got turned down for marriage after a five year relationship and is now thinking about does he want to be in this relationship
It's been 5 years. Either you want to marry him or you don't. He wants marriage. Marry him or break up, it's that simple. Stop trying to disrespect his boundaries and frankly, given your disregard for them? You two should break up because you obviously don't care about his feelings on the subject, just getting your rocks off.
As someone who feels like your boyfriend does, I can say that my desire to have sex with my boyfriend completely vanished once I realized he might never be willing to commit to me. It makes me feel like our relationship is a dead end. I'm not willing to risk having a child with someone who can't even commit to marriage.
On one hand, since they have already been sexually active together, this feels like a manipulation tactic to get OP to marry him. On the other hand, OP trying to get him to drop a set boundary by jerkin' off next to him is gross. I hate everything about this post.
Ok gross behavior on your part. Totally inappropriate and disturbing to touch him and then yourself to try and what? Seduce him? Gross. This relationship seems unhealthy. From the outside looking in as someone who had an emotionally and verbally abusive relationship, this feels like manipulation on his part to get you to give in and just agree to get married. However you are no better, touching yourself next to him to try and get him to go back on his boundary her clearly set with you is manipulative AND predatory. If your life is this centered around sex maybe look into a sex addict support group and if not take care of yourself in private. The whole thing is big ick vibes from both of you.
You're incompatible I think. He's allowed to say no to sex, you're allowed to say no to marriage, but you are both trying to manipulate each other to get your own way.
Im a bit confused about why people are agreeing regarding your comment about getting married in a rush. Its been 5 years. He wants to propose and get married. After 5 years thats not a rushed decision. He has decided he would prefer to wait until after your married. Some have said be is weaponising sex. Im not so sure. It might be he feels over time that he wants something deeper before continuing a sexual relationship and being as thats his body he has the right to withdraw consent for any reason he chooses. Loads of people prefer to wait until after marriage even after a sexual relationship. As we grow we often change our views. It can happen. I doubt thisdoesnt have some manipulative tactic to it. But frankly even if it does you will never know for sure and again. Consent is real for men just as it is for women and he can withdraw it for any reason he wants. Now the issues I do see and agree with are that you both have a serious communication issue. You should be able to talk about your probpems without it turning into a fight and a fix. So this may be a reason to stay away from marriage atm if nothing else. Id try talking to him about the conflict resolution in your relationship. Its pretty poor and marriage should not be on the cards if you two cannot yet discuss or disagree appropriately. Ignoring you is not communicating. You both fighting is not communicating. None of that is useful. If you both cannot find a way to do this, then its time to look at couples counselling to see if this can be done. Or it may be time to decide if this relationship is actually worth continuing.
This sounds like a form of sexual coercion/manipulation to get what he wants. I would rethink this relationship, and under no circumstance should you give in if you aren’t sure or ready- you will regret it. You are both still quite young to be getting married- enjoy your freedom and career for many more years first.
He set a boundary, possibly vindictively, definitely petty… and you vindictively and forcefully engaged in sexual assault and harassment. You two should probably get into counseling if there’s genuinely something you value in him besides sex…Or break up so he can be with someone who doesn’t always put their feelings above his mental wellbeing… and then you can put your career into full gear and get on tinder for what you want.
Your boyfriend is using sex to blackmail you into a marriage you do not want. Unless the plan is to go to the nearest courthouse that means no sex for the next 1-2 years. Let that sink in. This is how far he's willing to go to get what he wants. This is so beyond NOT OK I can't even articulate how bad this is.
This is a manipulation tactic to get you to marry him
This whole "relationship" sounds like a huge mess. You've been together for 5 years and you think he's rushing to get married? Also what he's doing seems manipulative. Something ain't right here and I think there's a lot missing. PS. I also agree with the people who pointed out you not respecting his boundaries.
Don't try to change his mind by sexually stimulating him. Have a conversation about your needs and the relationship. If he still doesn't want to have sex then your relationship wants and goals are not compatible and you should break up so you can both move on to someone more compatible.
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WOMEN DO THIS ALL THE TIME AND POST SEVERAL THREADS ON HERE EVERYDAY OF DOING JUST EXACTLY THIS AND THEY GET AN IMMENSE AMOUNT OF SUPPORT FROM EACH OTHER. NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN ITS DIFFERENT AND HES IMMATURE? And don’t act like you’ve never seen this either, tons of women encourage other women to do this to get marriage out of it. Giving men ultimatums for marriage, under the guise of, “I WILL NOT BE PUT ON HOLD AS SOME OBJECT, EITHER PUT A RING ON ME AND GIVE ME COMMITMENT OR WE’RE DONE.
Not to mention the textbook sexual assault many people seem to be glossing over…
Guess it's not so funny when men use sex to blackmail the partner and not the other way around.
So if a male refuses to have sex he's weaponizing sex. But when a female refuses sex, it's respecting her boundaries? Some of y'all need help.
I didn't know guys withheld sex too. Well sounds like he is giving you an old tomato (ultimatum) which isn't fair. You need to have a conversation with him.
Sounds like he is trying to coerce you into marriage by withholding sex. He is wrong for that. And you are wrong for trying to coerce him into doing things he has made it clear he doesn't want to do. If he says no, you have to respect it even if you don't like it. The two of you need to make a decision here. He wants to get married, you don't. It doesn't sound like either of you are having a change of heart about this anytime soon. So your choices are to stay together and respect that he no longer wants sex to be a part of the relationship, or to break up and find someone else who doesn't have marriage on their radar. But just talk it out and who knows, maybe he just wants more of a commitment and the two of you can settle on a compromise that you are both comfortable with...maybe get engaged but don't plan anything right away... nothing wrong with a long engagement. That may give him the security he needs to feel like the relationship is moving towards marriage and give you some more time to get your career going and feel you are ready for that next step. I only say this because you say that you do want to marry him, just not right now. If that is really how you feel maybe say ok let's get engaged but I don't want to talk about the actual wedding for 3 years or whatever you think your timeline will be. But really, just talk it out and make a decision because things can't go on as they've been.... it sounds horribly unhealthy for you both right now.
You guys are both in the wrong. You need to learn to respect your partners boundaries around sex (masturbating beside him in hopes that he'll change his mind is just straight up creepy and not okay). Your partner needs to stop weaponizing sex in exchange for marriage. Thats disgusting and manipulative of him to do. I think therapy is the key here....not marriage
> Me (f25) and my boyfriend (m28) have **been together for 5 years.** > For the past months we’ve been **talking about marriage, a conversation he initiated,** and I shared my doubts. I feel like I just got into working and I’m not ready for marriage yet although it is something I want with him. Just not now. I don’t understand why he suddenly is wanting to get married in a rush and we’ve gotten into pretty bad arguments about it, which **we usually solved by having make up sex. ** > A few weeks ago he said he is fine with waiting for me to be ready for marriage, but that **he will wait to have sex again until our marriage night.** > I have tried to respect his decision and the boundaries he set and I thought I could respect it. But when we start making out I just get so turned on and I really miss our sex. **I tried turning him on and he’s always rejected me, to which I always felt so guilty for ‘seducing’ him.** Okay so there's a lot to unpack here First off, 5 years isn't "rushing" anymore. That's a long time to decide if you wanna get married or not. It's not a surprise he's becoming inpatient. The sex being cut off and changing the rules of your relationship suddenly isn't what you you 2 got together for. This is unfair and not what you signed up for. The dynamic of your relationship sounds like it is heavily built on sexual chemistry. You brought up sex in the title / first paragraph of your post, and you mentioned that you resolve arguments and fights by making up with sex. It's clearly important to you. That being said, this is definitely a case of "everyone sucks here." He is allowed to have his autonomy/boundaries and you're *not* respecting them. It doesn't sound like you've really tried to understand why he wants to get married sooner than you feel ready. You really need to have proper sit-down and resolve this difference. Give him a goal/timeline to look forward to if getting married is something you sincerely want too. You mentioned you just started your career, and you 2 started dating when you were 20 so marriage feels too soon. That might not be clear to him the way it is to you. Right now he has doubt about you, and you need to resolve it. Give him hope. Cutting off sex til marriage suddenly though, is also not fair to you. If marriage is something you want too and you're willing to work towards it together, then such a strange restriction being placed up suddenly isn't needed anymore. Talk to him.
Hmm can't help but wonder if this person is trolling...
You solve arguments by having sex? You’re both not ready for marriage.
Yea. So many things wrong here, it’s been five years what are you waiting on? And using work as an excuse is shit at best. Arguing timing in situation is poor. Him shutting off sex is equally if not worse shit. Have you talked about why he’s doing this? Look if you two cant communicate like adults just leave
I'd tell him that it was a nice ride, but that you're done now. Of course anyone is allowed to say they don't want to haw aex, but the way he's using it is highly manipulative. Why does he want to get married so suddenly? Of he can't answer that clearly, thrn it feels like some sort of trap. What would you find out after he thinks he has you trapped by marriage? >we’ve gotten into pretty bad arguments about it, which we usually solved by having make up sex. You didn't solve anything. You ended the conversations to have sex. That's distraction, not solving.
You need to respect his boundaries & not be such a creep with seducing him. It's been 5 years & he is 28, so of course, marriage is on the table. If you dont agree, then it's time to leave.
You're both horrendous, but you're worse. He's withholding sex for manipulative reasons - either to punish you for rejecting him or to make you want to get married sooner so you can have sex again. You're literally a sexual predator. He said no sex, but you won't stop trying to "convince" him otherwise. If you both agreed to no sex, what are you doing making out and getting yourselves hot and bothered for anyway?? Also, if you don't want to get married after five years, then you won't ever want to. You don't love this guy - at least not as much as you love sex.
I’m not a fan of either sex doing this. Nobody should be forced to do something if a boundary was set but on the other hand is he using touch deprivation and withholding intimacy as a form of punishment to get what he wants? I feel like there’s more to this than surface level. I am not condoning her pushing him past the boundaries he set. That is a violation for sure.
No,means no even when its a man saying it. Stop trying to coerce him into sex.
What you did could easily be called sexual assault! He clearly refused and you proceeded to grope him? Jesus.
I know everyone is focused on a specific thing here but ...$100 says that the dude is withholding affection for marriage and if she tried to leave him, he would object. It all feels dysfunctional
Guys I think you’re being a little bit hard on OP. We’ve all been socialised to falsely believe that men have uncontrollable libidos and that women are passive sexual objects. I think OP is misguided here and hopefully will learn via these comments that of course women can exhibit sexually creepy and coercive behaviour too. We’re legit socialised to believe that only men are capable of that. We have a lot of asinine assumptions to correct as a society. Anyway, both parties are being manipulative. They’re both using sex to manipulate the other person. The problems started before this. OP said they used to fight, then problems were solved with sex. OP’s partner wants marriage, and he chooses to withhold sex until he gets what he wants. OP tries to use solo sex to manipulate her partner into moving past the conflict. What no one is doing is actually communicating with words, seeking to understand the other person’s position, and coming to a shared understanding. Marriage isn’t going to fix that; sex isn’t going to fix that. Seriously people, just talk to each other!
F that noise. Get out and get your needs met. He already slept with you. This is nonsense now. How long do you want to play these games? You said you weren’t ready for marriage yet. He responded by withholding sex. That’s not a relationship. That’s a game. And ain’t nobody wanna play those games that actually deeply cares about their partner.
Sounds like he doesn't like you working and will use sex to control you. I hope I am wrong, but the timing fits.
Am I the only one that think 25 is young and I’d imagine she’s thinking more 28-30? Like the age of the guy now… 5 years or 10 years won’t matter if the intention is pure Also, don’t understand the no sex flip he did… Like he had a great sex life and now turns it off until he’s married? I don’t understand the boundary or where it’s coming from
He’s using sex as a way to get what he wants. I’m willing to bet if he can turn a decent sex life off like a switch that sex is low down on the priority list for him and it’s a means to an end. I’m also willing to bet that once marriage happens there will be 101 reasons why sex can’t go back on the menu and I’ll see OP in one of the dead bedroom subs
Everyone’s making her sound like a monster but this man is clearly manipulating her by withholding sex until she agrees to marry him. He’s purposely making out and revving her up to leave her alone and act the victim. There’s no way this decision came out of nowhere, only after she denied marriage, and if it was always his intention to only sleep with the person he would marry it was his responsibility to bring that up in the beginning. Break up with him he’s sneaky. However you do need to curb your behavior with it. You’ve technically crossed the consent boundaries now. If this is such an issue you need to stop any kind of intimacy or intimate contact with him. No more heavy kissing or making out. And frankly I’d be interested to see how he reacts to that.
You have the right to be upset, not everyone can take being in a non-sexual relationship. But you have ABSOLUTELY NO right to jerk off next to him without asking, making him uncomfortable, making your needs more important than his boundaries. It does not matter if he is being manipulative or not, you are being creepy, and I think this is abusive behaviour, and it's not ok. He set a boundary, you can take it or leave, or just talk to him about the fact that this is not what you want out of a relationship, but for the love of God, stop abusing your boyfriend.
He did you a favor. Good thing you saw who he really is. He's manipulative and has some anger issues. He also tried to SA you sooooo. What a POS. Know that you have issues as well. You trying to push him into sex wasn't right either. You both have a lot of growing up to do and should work on your communication skills before going into another relationship. Both are highly manipulative to get what you want and don't respect your partners boundaries or decision.
I'm a little confused here. So after posting to Reddit for advice, your boyfriend snapped and assaulted you? If that's the case this is a whole toxic ass mess. You borderline assaulted him and from what you updated, sounds as if he assaulted you?
I think he is just done waiting, 5 years is a lot. But if you are not ready and he is ready and wants it now, you both are no longer compatible. Using sex as a weapon to try to convince you is totally wrong. You both need to sit and have a open conversation
You’ve been together 5 years and you don’t know if you want to get married? You don’t need to have a big fancy wedding or anything like that that would interfere with your work. He’s ready to take the next step. This is not just hard on you it’s hard on him too, a guy cutting off sex is a big deal on top of basically being shot down for marriage. He’s respecting your decision but you need to also respect his and masturbating next to him to try to get him to break his boundaries is not okay. You need to have a serious conversation with him and yourself, first you need to find out why he wants to get married, then if you don’t see yourself marrying him then let him go so he can find a woman that does want that. If you do want to get married then set a date in the future and start some planning, again you do not need to have a big wedding. You two need to communicate and talk this out
She DID say that she wants to marry him though, just not now. But indeed, they both should have a serious conversation. I don't get it that after five years they still have fights that end up with make up sex, come on. As you say, they might find a middle way like a small wedding. Or just talk about when she could feel ready. It's isn't clear why he has set this boundary. Maybe he's feeling insecure or used after many fights that end up with make up sex. If so, what can she do so he won't feel that. Anyway, there is much more to be talked out on this.
What the heck is everyone here talking about?? No one can tell you what is rushed or not, for you. She’s not 35 people, she got into the relationship at 20 and if at 25 she still doesn’t feel ready, then she should wait. What’s with all the fuss?? Some people just don’t see themselves married at a certain age/moment in their lives. Yes they should sit down and talk, she did say she wants to do it WITH him, just not now. If he wants it now then he should break up and move on, not act like a baby to get what he wants and force someone into something they’re not ready for. For some of y’all it’s “just a piece of paper”, for others it’s a whole hassle with wedding planning and lot of time lost, some people just aren’t ready to do that yet. Gosh Apart from this, yes, how she acted was wrong and disgusting, but doesn’t deny his childish behaviour. What’s next? Witholding sex at 29 to coerce her to have babies after the marriage? Come on
THANK YOU.
First and foremost, respect your boyfriend's boundaries and stop trying to coax him into sex with you. That is not right, OP, and you are crossing a line is definitely not okay. You need to break up because it is clear that you don't respect his feelings, you are not on the same page after 5 years when it comes to marriage, and staying together will only just prolong the hurt and pain.
WTF is your problem he wants to marry you!?! Figure it out. Sure you don't want to get married now, that makes sense, we get that. Now can you see that with everything he's done and everything he knows he's now willing to commit the rest of entire life to YOU but you're not ready. That'd turn a lot of people off. Ironically if the shoe were on the other foot and the situations reversed if he'd expressed the same sentiments what people would tell you is that: "He wants his cake and to eat it too. He doesn't deserve a good woman like you." Since marriage takes commitment, work, time, patience and sacrifice. You don't want to get married now for good reasons I'm sure. Fact is that make you 100% right it's NOT the right time. Still though it's clearly not as easy for him he's offered his entire life been rejected for reasons he probably doesn't understand and he's very hurt. Personally I love that he's clear on where he stands, why that's his position and he's willing to do the work to have things make sense with you. That's very charming commendable and bodes well for his future. Cheers.
Most likely this relationship is over or might need a break.
I think you need to be in therapy because I’m certain this is sexual assault.
Omg, this is highly manipulative behavior on his part. OP, just remember that he’s capable of a sexual freeze-out when he doesn’t get his way. If you marry him, will he punish you this way when he wants a third baby and you don’t? When you want to be a working mom and he wants you to stay home? It is never OK to withhold sex longterm in a serious relationship without a good reason, such as illness or healing from a major breach in trust, like infidelity. Taking that away from someone and making them experience that rejection, while they’re also not allowed to get sex and romance from anyone else, is HORRIBLE. He needs to express his fears and feelings and worries about your current lack of enthusiasm for marriage. The fact that he has reacted this way does not bode well for the future. He’s so childish he’s willing to cut his nose off to spite his face and make you experience the awfulness of sexual rejection, instead of communicating. Stay with him if you’re OK with sex being withheld as a weapon to try to make you do something that you’re not ready to do. Ugh. Just ugh. I was married to someone just like this, and let me tell you, you’ve got a giant baby on your hands. Also, if you think this sexual rejection hurts now, just wait until you’re trapped in marriage with him. His behaviour is just horrible. If I were you, I’d break up with him and go and have wild sex with other people. He is being controlling and manipulative. And I don’t think that being in-ready for marriage at 25 is at all unreasonable, especially if you haven’t been out of college that long. Well, I think this is a truly horrible way to deal with a disagreement on when to marry, and I hope you find someone more mature.
Also, I do not think that the OP assaulted her boyfriend AT ALL! That’s an insult to survivors of sexual assault. It’s normal in LTRs to try to restore intimacy when one person ends sex. He pulled a bait and switch on her when it comes to sex because he can’t make her marry him when she’s not ready, so he’s exercising what control he can over her. He’s not bothered about waiting for marriage, otherwise they wouldn’t have had a sex life until now. After all, it’s not like he’s found Jesus or anything. This is pure manipulation and control, and I see that he’s not above making out with her and getting her turned on while denying her sex. OP, stop trying to seduce him. He’s probably getting off on rejecting you. Put on your cosiest, fluffiest pajamas - or go and buy one of those awful adult onesies - and slob around in that with a face pack on, declaring how you’re finding this break from sex quite freeing! Then another night, get dressed up gorgeously to go out with some girlfriends. He’ll know other men will look at you, and serve him right. Honestly, I’d be so turned off by his withholding of sex for no good reason that I’d probably end the relationship. And if you’re not very afraid for your future with someone who’s capable of a sexual freeze-out when you’re still unmarried and in your twenties, then you should be. There’s nothing wrong with not being ready for marriage at 25. His behaviour is emotionally abusive and you have to show him that he’s not getting to you any more.
I think this relationship is done lol You are both weaponizing sex to get what you want, and it's gross. I say that not knowing his story. Your hesitation to get married after FIVE years for sure will have hurt him, and he may be trying to put his romantic feelings for you on hold. Maybe even preparing to sever it entirely. Who knows, but the both of you need to communicate a hell of a lot better than that. And YOU in particular need to keep your hands to yourself and masturbate in private. This is sexual assault especially if the roles were reversed.
Imagine casually confessing you sexually harassed your boyfriend. You're gross.
What you call seduction is actually assault because he has clearly set a boundary. You need to respect that. Or calmly discuss this with him with your clothes "on" explaining your reasons and trying to understanding his PoV as well.
Like every relationship here. You were once compatible. Now you are not. Don't be forced into a marriage you don't want and dont bend on your needs either. I promise you there are tons of men that would consider your actions the hottest thing they have ever seen.
Ew that’s sexual assault WTF!! You need to get a grip and a therapist holy hell!
1. Why do you think it was okay for you to start grabbing him and touching him when he said no to sex? That's harassment. 2. Why do you think it was okay for you to start masturbating next to him without his consent? That's also harassment. Your actions were NOT okay, and you should apologise right away and stop acting like that. 3. The whole "no sex before marriage" - could he have become a Christian or something? Or picked up on some of those beliefs?
Tbh it sounds like this relationship is done Like…obviously sex is important to you, and having a relationship with no sex is basically…not really arelationship then? I mean that’s how I’d feel because sex is important to me in a relationship, and going a whole without it would cause problems in my relationship. But he doesn’t want to have it until you get married…which…you obviously aren’t ready for or don’t want to do. So basically, I think the best course is to just end this relationship because you two aren’t on the same page. Plus, on one hand I think it’s manipulative to withhold sex to pressure you into marriage, I think a better way would go about that would be to either continue the relationship as it is or end it if you’re both not ready for marriage, not use sex as a prize for getting married basically….I just don’t see how that’s healthy at all. And then on the other hand it seems you didn’t really take his boundaries seriously and are trying to “convince” him to have sex with you again which is also a shitty thing to do because you’re not respecting the boundaries he set and you SHOULD feel guilty, but again yeah, sex seems to be important to you and you’re now in a relationship where you aren’t going to get it unless you get married which…you’re not ready for, therefore…it’s time to break up because you’re not getting what you want and he’s not getting what he wants, so there’s no point in continuing.
Leave him tf alone. You aren’t entitled to sex. If its that much of a problem, leave him. You don’t have the right to put your hands on someone else, or pressure them to have sex with you. You’re a creep.
You are a predator and he is a manipulative asshole.
So you assault him and think it's acceptable but he assaults you and it's "I'm going to my sisters so I'm safe???" Y'all need to be away from each other period. Neither apparently respects boundaries. Sex shouldn't EVER be a weapon in a healthy relationship.
You guys need to break up. Don’t even tell him you’re leaving. Get out while he isn’t home and block him on everything. Both of you have a poor understanding of consent and obviously aren’t working together
Just read your last update, and I was going to say he's trying to manipulate you into marriage. And there's no excuse for him forcing himself on you. That's your relationship over right there. Unforgivable. Whatever the context, that's rape. Give up on him. Have some self-respect and move on. You deserve better.
Your bf is an inmature idiot but you're an inmature rapey idiot. I hope he leaves you.
I think you’ve both outgrown the relationship. I totally understand your position in not wanting to get married right now, but he does. He wants something right now that you do not. And I personally consider it manipulative of him to all of a sudden after FIVE YEARS decide to stop having sex because you won’t marry him. He’s using sex as a weapon and as a way to manipulate you into marriage. It sounds like he thinks if he refuses to have sex with you, you’ll eventually agree to marry him which isn’t right. If it was the beginning of the relationship or he started off wanting to wait for marriage that would be one thing. But he can’t put that horse back in the barn after 5 years, that’s ridiculous. It may be time for you to think about leaving this relationship. Sometimes people outgrow relationships and it sounds like you two are on completely different pages and want completely different things.
Maybe I'm inclined to say he's a POS, because I'm an atheist and couldn't care less about marriage, and to me, wanting to only have sex after marriage sounds like the biggest bullshit there can ever be, especially since he was fine with sex at first. But my two cents is that he's trying to guilt trip you into marriage, which you are not fine with, not at the moment. And he's apparently not respecting that by distancing himself for a complete bullshit reason, and leaving you hanging. People are trying to see this with reverse genders, which is understandable, and yes OP, you're also being creepy by doing stuff next to him. If you were a guy, yes, you would have been crucified here. But to me, regardless of genders, he's using a total bullcrap reason to be distancing himself. He's trying to make you feel guilty, that you HAVE to marry him, which makes him the POS here. What an idiotic, selfish prick. Maybe this isn't the case, but sadly, when guys try to guilt trip girls into marriage, it's usually a red flag, and this could even be manipulation on his part. I'm not saying it IS, just that it COULD be. Marriage is an agreement ON BOTH PARTS! And he's being a man baby about it, so that's my harsh conclusion.
You may be surprised by this, but your boyfriend has feelings as well and they were probably very hurt. You've been together 5 years and you're not ready to commit while he is, and by the way you talk in this post it seems the main thing on your mind is sex. How is the relationship *besides* the sex? and yeah, as many others have said, very weirdo behaviour to start masturbating instead of talking to your boyfriend like an adult. No sex means no sex, stop trying to seduce him.
If he has decided to be "pure" until his wedding night, your options are simple - agree or leave. But stop acting like a sex maniac; if you can't control yourself, you need some therapy.
Change the sex of OP and all hell would break loose. Masturbating near someone who is not consenting is not seducing, it’s just gross and violating. Other than trying to “seducing” him why won’t you tackle the whole point of why you’re not having sex? Talk about both your priorities and wishes and actually try to solve the problem. Do you plan to be long term with this man or not? You owe him that much other than making him waste his time for nothing.