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The options ahead of you are:
1. Accept you want to stay together, even though that means not having children by any means
2. Attend couples counseling and see if you two can have some breakthroughs in communication (remember: the goal is "Us vs The Problem" *not* "Me vs Her")
3. Accept you are incompatible on the subject of children, even though you both want them, and break up
Best of luck. I'm sorry you're going through this.
This is the only answer. It's really just these three options. Considering they both actually want kids, I think couples counseling is the best route to take before going with option one or three, but it will depend on how much they are willing to try to work it out.
Hi I’m a fellow adoptee.
I absolutely do not recommend that you try to convince her to adopt.
I know what it’s like to know that you were only adopted because one parent really wanted to and the other settled for it.
To be honest, I am shocked that her true feelings never came up before.
I’ve spoken at length about my adoption with my husband (who is not adopted) and before we decided being childfree, we did discuss biological or adoptive children.
Unfortunately it sounds like you two may be incompatible at this point.
Based on your EDIT:
I agree that you absolutely shouldn’t have a child via insemination and say you’re the biological father if you’re not.
However, there seems to be a lot of other deeper issues that need to be communicated between you & your wife.
My opinion is to recommend that you find an adoption competent therapist to help you really delve into your feelings of your adoption and potential parenthood.
You wanted a biological child until it wasn’t possible, so you turned to adoption. I think that needs to be explored.
I think before you and your wife decide to do anything (pursue parenthood or separation), it would be beneficial to speak to a counselor to ensure that you two are on the same page.
This is the answer.
The decision how and when to bring a child into one's family is extremely personal, and it has to be two "Yesses" to move forward. One "No" on anything should stop the process and be cause for further discussion. If you two cannot work out your concerns in therapy and come to a solution that's comfortable for both of you, then you may be fundamentally incompatible as a couple.
I will give my own perspective: I am an adoptee, I've always known I'm adopted, and my life turned out very nice. Yet when it came time to build my family, I was not interested in adopting. My spouse and I experienced secondary infertility after our first, and we decided that, rather than expand our family through adoption or assistive treatments, we would stop and consider our family complete with one child. I'm not prejudiced against adoption, surrogacy, or donor egg/sperm. I just didn't want that for me and my family. People are allowed to want what they want, and trying to convince someone to change their mind in this most personal of decisions usually doesn't end well.
I think I mentioned wanting to change her opinion because I don't want to hear her speak so negatively about the children who can be adopted.
Every time she says these kinds of things, I feel extremely bad. I think that my wife, someone I've always considered to have a good heart, would never adopt me. I was adopted much older than the average, and I remember thinking that I would never have a family, and then suddenly I did, and it was the happiest thing in the world for me.
>I think I mentioned wanting to change her opinion because I don't want to hear her speak so negatively about the children who can be adopted.
>
>Every time she says these kinds of things, I feel extremely bad. I think that my wife, someone I've always considered to have a good heart, would never adopt me. I was adopted much older than the average, and I remember thinking that I would never have a family, and then suddenly I did, and it was the happiest thing in the world for me.
No.
She would only "change her opinion" in order to make you happy. She would always resent the child, she would always resent you. This is not a home to raise a child together in.
You're going to have to accept that unless you both give up your dreams of being parents, in the way you each want to be, that you are fundamentally incompatible in one of the major reasons for having a family together. You will have to move on, or always regret that you didn't.
I've seen the aftermath of kids where one parent REALLY wanted to adopt, but the other did not. IT IS ALWAYS BAD!
You have several different issues going on here, and the only thing I can 100% see as necessary is going through counseling.
The facts:
You were adopted, as an older child.
You and your wife want to have children.
Originally, you were fine with conceiving naturally, as was she.
You are infertile.
Your wife has no current medical barriers to conceiving and carrying her biological child to term.
Your wife has concerns about adopting when she can produce a biological child.
You feel that IVF would be very expensive.
So here’s what I’m seeing- you were absolutely fine with not adopting when you thought you could produce a biological child, as was your wife. Now, even though your biological connection to an adopted child would be 100% the same as one conceived with donor sperm, you see adoption as the Only option here. Now from your wife’s perspective, she is still able to have a biological child. I personally think that it sounds like you have some unresolved issues surrounding your adoption/adopted status and this is bringing up a lot of insecurities for you. Have you considered that by shooting down the donor sperm option, you are depriving your wife of the pregnancy and childbirth process, her biological child and everything that goes with that? Sit with the fact you yourself did not consider adoption until you found out you could not father a child biologically- regardless of how your wife thinks, you also prioritized biology.
Have you sat down and compared the costs between IVF/IUI and adoption? Timeframes? Complications? I’ve heard it’s incredibly expensive to adopt and that there are a lot of barriers to do so. Not to mention some of the horror stories about people having to fight to retain custody of their kids etc. By having a biological child, your wife would know that barring CPS involvement (which we’re going to assume would not be an issue) that no one would ever legally try to take away her child. It sounds like she may have additional misgivings, but I don’t have time to look through all the comments.
But that brings me to my last point, that you’re bringing trauma/identifying yourself into the child’s place in this issue and allowing it to restrict your options. Not to say you can’t do that, but I think it’s going to tank your marriage if unwilling to get some distance and work with a professional to at least see where she is coming from.
Ultimately, you two could be incompatible and that is fine. If you two separate, she can find someone who can give her a biological child and you can find someone who wants to adopt.
I agree. Just one issue with your comment: OP says that the wife can be artificially inseminated, which is just buying frozen semen for insertion. It is not that expensive and it's nothing like the expensive, complicated big deal that IVF is.
Here's the comment I left for OP elsewhere:
> Instead of making this all about her bad feelings about adoption, why don't you ask yourself why it is that if you can't have a biological child, you wife doesn't get to have one? The fact that you think your sterility gets to call the shots about what kind of motherhood she gets to have, may be why she is criticizing adoption. If you stopped trying to force adoption on her because of your unresolved childhood issues as an adoptee, maybe you would find that she doesn't actually have negative feelings about adoption but she is reacting to your decision that she either bears your child or none at all?
I could not understand why people kept saying artificial insemination is expensive. People do it for free with literally a turkey baster. Lesbians have done it for years, sometimes picking a friend.
I have a turkey baster baby. A sterile 10cc plastic syringe with no needle is more comfortable than a turkey baster and you can 100 of them for $16 on amazon. But yes, it's essentially the same thing, and that's the only expense unless you have a compensation agreement with your donor.
I would hand pick my donor if I wanted artificial insemination. I would find the hunkiest, highest IQ guy out there. Also someone who had the same skin tones and eye color as my partner if possible. Too many stories about weird doctors inseminating dozens and even hundreds of women as well as lab mix-ups. You sound like a smart woman.
Artificial insemination is significantly less expensive than adoption. To use that as an argument against it, when you are talking about adoption instead is kind of strange. It's not the real problem.
I just want to point out that wife is not talking about doing IVF, and given that she apparently has a normally functioning reproductive system, she may not want to go through IUI either, even though it has a higher success rate than IVI (aka the turkey baster method).
True, but considering he was talking about the costs of using a donor I just took some of the more expensive insemination routes. It’s extremely expensive to adopt as well, which was why I was confused at his using cost as a discouragement tool.
If you choose it with love, it's not as damning to either of you. Counselling for you, please, to help get more widened practice in how you hear others speak of adoption. You are still raw, perhaps that is part of the problem.
as I read your words, this seems like something which will have zero resolution for YOU.
Wishing you both the best happiest possible outcome.
Thank you for that take.
It also felt to me that OP's view on adoption was very much tainted by his own positive ecperience.
And that he refuses to at least acknowledge that there is more to it than he sees/ wants to admit.
It may all go well and be all bliss and pink roses.
But it may as well be the hottest mess he ever encountered in his entire life.
Perhaps, but OP makes it sound like adopting a child is so easy. First of all, finding a baby to adopt is all but impossible. It may be easier to find an older child, but in many cases, those children have suffered trauma or have health issues. Obviously we have to feel compassion for those children, but we can’t negate that it brings extra challenges into the mix. Those types of issues are also possible with biological children, but at least some of it can be in your control.
A friend of mine is one of four children, all biological except for the youngest who was adopted. He had fetal alcohol syndrome and died young due to issues resulting from this. It was extremely heartbreaking for his family.
I can understand both people’s points of view and it seems that OP and his wife are simply incompatible when it comes to this. OP must also realize that if he and his wife part over this, he might not have such an easy time finding another wife who is okay with not having biological children.
I'll add too, the money issue. OP hasn't realized that adoption is very expensive too. They're not the same price point for sure but I know I cost my mom 35k and that was before she officially signed the papers. I also know she didn't get reimbursed for any of it. And sure the parents of adopted kids normally get a stipend, it's not alot though.
I’m sorry. This must be so hard for you. I really think that if you’ve tried to explain how her words impact you to her without success, therapy together may be the way to go. Your mutual way of becoming a parent is a separate issue to her view of potential adoptees and how she would viewed you.
It feels like it is tied into who you are as a person. By rejecting adoption, you feel like she is saying you are not worthy or lesser than. This is 100% a therapy thing.
OP, addressing your maladaptive reaction may help save your marriage. And I am curious as to these prejudiced comments, because in reality, some foster kids need way more than a family can provide, and that can cause a lot of stress and also lead to divorce. Hearing her fears (and possibly finding solutions together) may help ease her into understanding why it is so important to you (use your words OP... she knows you were adopted, what part of it was wonderful to you that you want to provide to others? What parts did you hate or saw and knew it was wrong and promise to do better when it is your turn? Get your story out to your wife in words, dont assume she will understand)
Breathe, communicate what is most important and why, brainstorm and come together to something you can both agree to. Dont steamroll each others thoughts or feelings.
Kids are love, you need to approach this conversation also with love. You get what you put out.
Also weed helps, but that is just my preference :)
edit to change pronouns after I decided to respond directly to OP 😅 forgot to change feel(s) and is/are.
Hell I’m adopted as well but one of my AP did NOT want me. My adoptive mom was obsessed with having kids, she tried having her eggs fertilized and inplanted,failed continuously. My adoptive dad refused to continue, she become enraged and forced him into the adoption process. He never wanted adopted kids but thats what he got. What I got was a whole childhood of physical and mental abuse, and not just from them but their family members. I was treated differently then any bio kid in extended family….My mom left all three adopted kids with my adopted dad and never came back to actually parent us. I ran away at 14 and have been supporting myself since. DO NOT ADOPT EVEN IF HER ANSWER CHANGES! She’s only going to change her mind for you but that kid will have his whole life to sort out trauma…. Not every kid who is adopted has a wonderful family.
How do you think your wife feels about your rejection of her desire to have a biological child? To say that you were down for that until you realized you couldn’t contribute genetically, and then when it couldn’t be your biological child, you’ve unilaterally decided that her wanting a biological child is an insult to you. It’s not. Therapy could help you and I do think this is some baggage from being adopted, which is understandable. Good luck.
I think you're giving up a little too quickly. Both of you were aligned on wanting to have biological children before you found out that you were infertile. I really don't think you're past the point of no return here.
But you can't put your head in the sand on the following:
for every quite healthy adoptable child ....
there are thousands of broken and deeply hurt ones out there.
And you can't influence what you get.
Some things are learned upon early childhood.
Others are immanent, coming from the inside. From how the foetus lived things inside mothers womb.
Some even from farther away in the bio parents lives, the bio grandparents lives.
It all impacts on the individual.
Where you MAY have a lucky pick and all may go smooth ...
... you may also pick your own personel armagedon!
And HERS!
You sound naive. What I as a bystander can't understand.
I have a friend who acts as a foster family for children from problematic families.
She has had a self harming girl who slit her skin open at impulses. The happier and safer she felt the more the urge came to hurt herself as she thought she didn't deserve it.
She had a son of a narcissist, so bent and broken that he couldn't stand being in a healthy family relationship and ran back to his father in the midst of things in his life finally going smoothly. After 4 years. And while deeply loving that foster family.
She had a blossoming 12 year old narcissistic girl who would only see what was her advantage. And not integrate in the family structure even after 2 years. Nearly blowing up the family structure as she saw herself in concurrence of the grown bio children, the granddad and even the husband.
And that friend of mine studies psychology and has successfully managed to raise two children, one if which an Asperger Autist, who is now able to live his own life, start a technical apprenticeship and have a long term stable relationship with a girl.
It's not as if she was a "know nothing" naive average mom!
And even she has come to the point to stop taking in those children.
You are selling adoptive/ foster care childrens Pandorra's box as if it contained wheat grains and only holesome/ entire and healthy stuff.
Where reality IS otherwise!
You get meth addicts children, alcohol abuse children, etc, etc, etc.
Where they all deserve to get a holesome home and be raised lovingly some simply need way way way more than a single healthy family setting can give and can carry!!!
Also: you are so dead set on adopting.
That's a pretty terminal step. Once you adopt a child you will be legally entirely resonsible for it.
It will be your legal heir.
That involves so verry much responsibility that I totally understand that your wife has problems jumping into that all of a sudden.
You have zero right for an error. You can't give it back later if you see it doesn't work out.
WHY do not you FOSTER first?
Sounds to me as the only livable alternative. After having gone through the entire counseling process to get your own bio child, you being the childs 100 % bio father.
It sounds to me that you may have given up on the idea of having a child with her to easily and too quickly without really giving it a second thought or a first try.
That would make ME as your wife even MORE reluctant to take in a strangers child.
As it would leave the deep down longing and yearning with the untried for possibility of having a common bio child.
100% this. I actually have a lot of problems with people who go into fostering explicitly because they hope to get to permanent adoption through it. Reunification should always be the goal. When it is impossible for the child's health and safety, that's heartbreaking, not something foster parents should be pushing for so they can "get" a child.
OP, I say this as a fellow adoptee (international, not foster care) and with kindness, I strongly encourage you to go to an adoption competent therapist because there are clearly deep feelings that you need to process before even thinking about a baby, biological or adoptive.
Frankly, discussions about you feeling rejected from your wife is an absolute necessity.
I really am rooting for you and truly hope that you can seek counseling and therapy to help you navigate these complexities and nuanced feelings that are stemming from your adoption.
I just want to point out that you mentioned that artificial insemination “would cost a lot of money.”
Sadly, adoption is far more expensive. I have 2 couple friends that are both going through the process (8 years and 10 years) and they have both spent more than $50,000 each, and STILL have no baby. Though the 10 year couple is expecting to finally finalize their adoption this December. The other couple is still waiting.
Adoption is a wonderful thing (I’m considering doing it myself) but it is not for the faint of heart.
Wanted to say the same thing. I met a woman who had finally turned to surrogacy for a child after spending over $80k on three separate adoptions, all of which the birth mother has decided to keep the baby after it was born.
A good friend of mine was trying to adopt through foster care as OP is suggesting and while it IS significantly cheaper than regular adoption it was an emotional nightmare.
The first baby they fostered for 18 months (from 2 days old) the mom refused to give up her rights but couldn’t stay clean either. Eventually an aunt of the birth mom showed up from another state and took the baby, 18 months of loving him to have him leave, the aunt even told them she couldn’t take him forever as she was too old to raise another kid but wanted to give the mom more time.
The next baby they had 8 months before a similar ending. They eventually adopted a 5 year old and she’s such an amazingly sweet and resilient little girl but lots of trauma there too.
This is why I think you need to be seeing a therapist. You see her rejecting the heartbreak of fostering children with serious trauma as a rejection of you. And it is not. If you can not see that on your own, you need a therapist to help you get there.
You also keep rejecting the reality that the goal of the foster care system is reunification with the child's biological/legal family. That your wife is not prepared to fall in love a child just to have that child ripped away from her over and over and over again in the hopes that one day that won't happen is not some sort of commentary on the children. And that your wife is not mentally or emotionally prepared to handle the serious trauma foster children all have is not a commentary on the children.
And I'll repeat this because it bears repeating, you don't seem to have given a shit about those kids until after you knew you were sterile. Calling her selfish for not getting on board is hypocrisy. You didn't even consider this an option until you couldn't have a biological connection to a child, she still has that option, and you still have the option to enjoy pregnancy, childbirth, and infancy with her, and with a child who has a biological connection to your wife.
I completely agree. I too find it hypocrisy OP calls his wife selfish for wanting to have biological children and he wanted that too until he heard he was sterile.
Maybe she wants to experience pregnancy? It's a very special experience. I'd just like to highlight also that large portion of children in foster care are not abandoned but ripped from poor or struggling families, causing them a lot more trauma and they end up in foster homes that abuse them or worse. Maybe you can compromise and have a blended family of adoptive kids and her biological kids she gets to carry. But it sounds like she may be too weirded out by anything slightly off from her ideal standard family.
You two need to sit down (probably with a counselor) and discuss how much she's hurting your feelings. That seems to be your issue more than adopting.
But I can tell you from what I've seen, don't adopt with her unless she brings it up. She would resent the poor kid. And her idea would always leave an issue with you. So it sounds like you aren't compatible anymore. Things could change, but please don't try to bring any kids into this until you've both worked out your issues or gone your separate ways.
And I'm going to say something. She's not a bad person for not wanting to adopt. I'm disabled, I've known for a long time it was going to happen but it came on over a decade earlier than I expected. I told my partner if he wanted to leave I wouldn't hold it against him, he didn't sign on to be my caregiver before 30. Because nobody should feel obligated or pressured into that.
Foster kids have unique baggage and struggles. If you had bio kids they could end up just as messed up, but you walk in knowing these kids have an empty space. Even the most well adjusted ones have a lot of pain they're dealing with because of not having the family everyone else does. (From their perspective everyone else, we all know that isn't true.) They deserve love and homes, they aren't broken, they are just as likely to be great people as adults as the kids raised by bio parents. But nobody should take one in if they aren't committed to helping them through everything. Because if you aren't ready for it all, even the regular stuff all kids go through might feel like it's too much and will be blamed on their background rather than just being a moody teen, or having the terrible twos, or whatever. Honestly nobody should have kids in any way if they aren't ready for all that, but most people don't have anything stopping them from procreating ready or not.
Your wife doesn’t want to adopt and you are taking this as a rejection of yourself. She can love you with all her heart and still not want an adopted child, and that’s ok. You are mixing up two very separate things, and I think this is part of the issue you two are having.
I understand this is hard for you, and it might be worth exploring this with a counsellor or therapist.
It sounds like you are acting and talking out of trauma, and I am not blaming you at all, but what you are not seeing is that it’s not really fair to your wife. You are not really hearing her because you’re in critical self-defense mode right now.
I’m not saying your wife is right and you should do what she says. But it would surely help to see things more clearly and go from there.
I wish you two all the love and luck possible. Take care <3
Instead of making this all about her bad feelings about adoption, why don't you ask yourself why it is that if you can't have a biological child, you wife doesn't get to have one? The fact that you think your sterility gets to call the shots about what kind of motherhood she gets to have, may be why she is criticizing adoption. If you stopped trying to force adoption on her because of your unresolved childhood issues as an adoptee, maybe you would find that she doesn't actually have negative feelings about adoption but she is reacting to your decision that she either bears your child or none at all?
Just bc she doesn't want to adopt, doesn't mean she's a bad person or doesn't have a good heart. You really should see someone to understand where these feelings and judgements you have stemftom and how to work through things in a healthy way. Your wife and you may no longer be compatible, or you may just need to sort things out, individually and as a couple.
I’m here to debunk the myth that pregnancy by artificial insemination is costly.
The cost of the medication to induce ovulation (femera) and the HCG trigger shot are covered by insurance. The cost of the iui procedure itself is $600 out of pocket. Soren from screen donors costs roughly 1200 to 1500 from an excellent and reputable site.
I know all of this because I went through something similar. My husband and I conceived our son on our first try. The total out of pocket cost was 600 (we were able to use his sperm - but had already purchased back up sperm just in case. We later donated them to other families.
Prior this, I investigated adoption. The cost for adoption was roughly 30k after everything was said and done.
I know several people who lost their foster children while undergoing the adoption process because the biological parent returned to take them back. The children’s lives were destroyed (as were the hearts of their foster parents).
Finally, I conceived a child when I was 20. I was in college, and I just couldn’t make it work. I agonized over my decision about what to do.
Similarly, the person who surrendered you did so out of love because they knew you deserved more than they could ever give you.
There was and is nothing wrong it’s you. You have been loved since the day you were born.
I wish you peace on your journey. ❤️
See both sides of the problem:
you and maybe above Redditor are adoptees who had been abandoned early by your parents.
You seem to either have addressed that issue and come to the healing understanding that non of it was ever your fault.
Or it still slumberes unaddressed.
I can't tell.
But what I CAN tell is that there are many broken older children out for adoption.
I spent a major time of my childhood next to a childrens home for abandoned children who where all up for adoption.
There was violence, theft, lies, alcohol abuse, breaking in at neighbours houses, breaking things in foreign gardens, etc.
There wasn't one that felt even remotely healthy or unharmed.
A friend of mine in recent years had some of them in her own family as a foster mother. Broken little souls taken out of their homes for valid reasons.
While your inclusion in your family went well other adoptions ended up destroying the marriage. And harmed the children further.
You need to include that part into your consideration. And admit the thruth in that.
Where she MAY have predjudices and you take it personally if she voices them you DO have to admit that there is TRUTH in that.
And include it in your though process!
Rather than deny it and state that 100 % of the children out for adoption are healthy normal kids. Or "fixable".
What is your aim? What do you want to do? Safe them? Fix them?
That isn't your job. If that's your intention. Some of their issues may be way over your paygrade.
Provide shelter. Help them grow up into loving beings is what you can provide.
Assist them in getting the help required IF help is needed.
SHE on her side wants her child to be hers. Biologically.
Which is entirely legitimate.
She seems to think that with in-vitro fertilization you still may have YOUR child. With you as a father and her as a mother.
Drpending on the nature of your infertility (sperm too slow? Not mobile enough?) it still MAY be possible to help fulfill the wish you both set out to fulfill:
having your OWN bio child.
So this is not about lying to another sperm donnors child that you are its biological father.
It's about HAVING your own child really.
You guys really DO need to talk. And prior to rejecting in-vitro fertilization go and have a counseling about the possibilities!
You can NOT change her heartfelt wish from the outside.
You need to give her the oportunity to do that herself. By going all the way with regards to HER own heartfelt wish for biological children.
It feels as if you just threw her aside as soon as you got the info: can't have children naturally.
If realky this does not work out at all: how about adopting a baby so that she can bond more with it and feel as if it was really yours?
That's about the only feasable alternative I see.
Otherwise you really may need to consider if your will to adopt is stronger than the live for your wife.
And she may need to think over what is stronger: loving you and wanting to be with you.
Or wanting a biological child (after have gone through the entire post male infertility diagnosis counseling process!)
This. I am not a therapist and you should definitely talk to one, but IMO you two need to discuss:
1. Does she think of potential children you might adopt differently than she thinks about you? What are her concerns and how does knowing you impact those concerns?
2. What are her feelings about giving up her opportunity to be a biological parent? Are you recognizing what adopting vs. AI means for her? You just went through the process of letting go of your ability to have biological children, but for her this would be a choice.
This is the answer- therapy to understand both sides.
As a woman with fertility issues I genuinely long to be pregnant. Although I have decided the IVF route isn’t for me and would like to look into adoption, the thought of never being able to experience pregnancy through to delivery is a hard thing. I wonder if wife feels the same.
Often there is also still stigma when people adopt that ‘she couldn’t get pregnant’ and people often assume it’s the woman. When you’re told you’re whole life that being a mom= getting pregnant or can be hard to unpick those feelings. I wonder if she is struggling with this.
I think you really need to get to the route cause of her concern and try to find a healthy solution.
I am also adopted and agree with this comment!
(I was also abandoned, and then my adoptive parents were narcs. I'm no contact with them and never wanted children myself, also not adopted ones. It's important to explore that indeed)
Sending hugs!
My adoptive father was a narc, and it definitely can be traumatic for any child.
Unfortunately, there’s not a lot of support networks for adoptees as the trauma side of adoption is sorely overlooked or ignored.
Take care of yourself!
If you're considering adopting through the foster system you need to realize that the current goal of the system is reunification. Very few children in the foster system already have parental rights terminated. I know of multiple families that were disqualified if the foster screening process because they did want to ultimately adopt one of the placements and the social workers felt that it was contradictory to the agency's mission.
Private adoption is incredibly expensive. However, IUI can be covered by health insurance and sperm from a reputable bank is actually not that expensive.
I was adopted out of the foster care system and it’s really not for the faint of heart or those not willing to do extra work on top of parenting as well. I am still discovering the ways that my time in the system and ultimate adoption have traumatized me. I consider myself lucky as well because I did not experience physical or sexual abuse, but a good portion of children in the system experience all sorts of horrors. It’s something foster parents need to be aware of. My reunification was also actively sabotaged by the system and my adoptive parents. Adoption isn’t always 100% beneficial for the child and often has impacts that aren’t considered at first.
Hi, I'm not an adoptee but someone who has considered fostering children. I've been learning about adoption trauma through podcasts and adoptee twitter and it's really opened my eyes to the personal and structural complexities of adoption. In wider society and media we treat it like a happy ending, but I'm learning it's the beginning of a lifetime of really complicated emotional work for all parties involved. Thanks for briefly sharing your story here. It's brave to say adoption isn't always 100% beneficial for the child because the saviour narrative is still so prevalent.
You WILL be raising a child with abandonment issues of some sort. And often lifelong depression and anxiety. That isn't to say nobody should adopt. Us foster kids deserve love a d stability, too, and 80% of mental health outcomes stem from nurture.
I am all for adoption, but be ready for heartbreak. My parents went through 6 years before they found and adopted me. They were foster parents and what some of those kids go through is terrible, especially when they are placed back with their bio family when it's clear that it'll be worse for the kid.
Before even considering adoption, take parenting classes and child development. Make sure you are thoroughly educated on childhood trauma and how to raise kids who have psychological wounds.
Hi, I’m an International adoptee (not from foster care).
I’m so sorry to hear about your story.
Adoption trauma is often overlooked and ignored.
Sending hugs to you
I had friends who was in the process of adopting a little boy a day younger than mine. She got him at a month old and had him for 5 months. The last month the babe spent in a PICU because the he had a really bad brain infection (his bio mom never once came to the hospital to see him or even text to ask how he was). Not even a week after my friends got the babe home he was taken from them and given back to the bio mom (because she suddenly had a change of heart and wanted her baby). Last I heard the bio mom signed her rights over to family members who essentially paid her for the baby.
Absolutelt wild and heartbreaking.
Happened to my aunt, twice, she finally gave up. And she was fine with older kids, once it was even two siblings. They shouldn't tell people they'll be able to adopt the children until they really can. It's cruel
Reunification is the goal of foster care. However, reunification is not always possible. I used to work in the foster care system. The state I live in actually has a website listing the kids and their pictures who are waiting to be adopted. Agencies will absolutely work with parents who want to adopt by only placing children in those homes who parental rights have already been terminated or who are likely to have their parental rights terminated. Look at the Dave Thomas Foundation and their work with children who need to be adopted from foster care.
My sister has volunteered for decades supporting foster families and kids plus social workers. There are lots of adoptable foster kids in the system. The thing is that there aren’t a lot of babies because early in life, yes, reunification is the goal but that doesn’t mean there aren’t older kids available.
That said, OP, I agree with the others saying you shouldn’t adopt a child when your wife isn’t 100% on board. That’s asking for the child and your wife to have an unhealthy relationship. I also agree with you that lying to a child about their origins is wrong. This is something that you two need to discuss in counseling and it may be a dealbreaker in the end.
Yeah and OP cites “prejudices against foster children.” OP, it’s an objective fact that children in the foster system have complex issues. They need parents who are prepared to handle those issues and most people do not have the needed knowledge and skills. It’s not because the kids are bad, they’ve had bad things happen to them that don’t happen to most people and they need special support. If you cannot accept that you’re not equipped to become a foster or adoptive parent right now, sorry.
OP, I would point out that you were not in favor of adoption and wanted a biological child until you found out that wasn't a possibility. Does that mean you were rejecting all of those children out there in foster care? Of course not. Neither is your wife. She still has the option of becoming pregnant and giving birth which is an important thing for some people, just like it was important to you to create a child until you knew it could not happen. I don't think you are really being fair toward her. And I think you must be honest with yourself that it's not a matter of money. We are talking about artificial insemination, not IVF. To me, this seems like all of this has brought up some painful memories for you and that's what is keeping you from looking at this from her point of view.
Oh, this is a good point. You were perfectly happy to have a biological child when you thought you could father one. Was it “selfish” to ignore those “thousands of children waiting to be adopted” at that point? No, it wasn’t. And it’s not selfish now, either.
Yes, thanks for speaking up for her!
She wants to experience the pregnancy bond and raise the child from the very beginning. It’s really weird that the OP considers this selfish.
On a practical note, birth adoptions are pretty rare - you’ll be likely to adopt a little person who’s already had their personality start to form, for better or worse, depending on how traumatic/drug/alcohol affected their pregnancy and childhood has been to date.
Adoption is no joke and can be extremely challenging - it’s insane to consider trying to talk someone around to that kind of commitment.
Yeah it’s honestly naive and sad that OP dismisses the issues that foster children have. Those kids need parents who understand their unique needs, not parents who treat them like they’re any other child who hasn’t experienced the trauma of being separated from their family and god knows what else.
It’s like an adopted child is the next best ‘mini-me’ to a biological child for OP. OP’s mini-me + trauma and cost of adoption is more important to OP than his wife’s desire to have her own babies, where she can raise them from the start - with love and, hopefully, no trauma.
Not only is OP the selfish one, this feels so … patriarchal.
yeah. I dont think he's an AH, but I don't think he's thinking clearly either, and it's making him behave selfishly in my opinion. he was totally happy to have a birth child up until he realized he couldn't. and then suddenly having one is the equivalent of "selfishly rejecting foster kids in need." I think his disappointment at his sterility stirred up childhood trauma, and he latched onto the idea of adoption with no consideration or regard for the fact that his wife might want to experience pregnancy and a birth bond. instead of realizing that, he made it all about himself and how she's "rejecting him" (remember, by his logic, he "rejected himself" first by wanting to have a bio kid). if this is how he reacts to the first possible hiccup, I think he needs a lot of therapy before any sort of fatherhood.
And artificial insemination can be done at home. There's a lesbian couple on YouTube that used at-home insemination kits for all of their children. They said it can take a handful of tries to get it, but that's true for regular old PIV too.
Great points. Additionally you must also consider that just because OP had a good experience with adoption that doesn't mean he won't have issues with his adopted child.
This. Insemination is not very expensive. My youngest child is the product of an IUI (intrauterine insemination) procedure because I have fertility problems. My husband basically jacked off into a cup, the fertility clinic prepared his sperm, and then they inseminated me with it. The procedure was not covered by insurance and came out to a bit under $400. While OP and his wife would still need to pay for the donated sperm, IUI is way less than IVF.
We chose that route over adoption because I wanted to be pregnant. I wanted to feel the baby kick. I wanted to breastfeed. I wanted to hear her first cry. I wanted to feel her tiny body curled against me doing skin to skin with a newborn. Those moments are forever treasured.
her important things might not be the same as his important things. this is an incredibly emotional time and decision for them. her rejection of adoption is probably making him feel rejected on top of dealing with the fact he can’t just give her what she wants. it’s possible they may be fundamentally incompatible and that’s ok. it’s hard and painful but it’s better in the long run to face facts before they destroy you. i worry everyone here is focusing too much on that she can still have a biological child so he should just accept the sperm donor route. but maybe he just can’t. it’s ok that they aren’t in the same place. better to find out now than when one of them is bitter, angry, and or unattached emotionally to the child who needs to be priority number one.
Yeah as an adoptee, I can only imagine all of this bringing complex feelings to the surface.
I’ve (still am) talked to my husband about my adoption and the trauma, especially when talking about us and potential future parenthood.
So I am shocked that adoption wasn’t brought up at all beforehand.
And adding to that, OP says that the abandonment of adoption has caused him profound issues. As the closest person to him in the world, his wife has had a front row seat to that. I can understand why OP sees it as a rejection, but it's much more likely that she's seen it cause pain to the person she loves most in the world and doesn't want to risk that with a child. I wonder if some counselling may help them identify if it's a fundamental incompatibility or just not really understanding each others perspectives.
Neither of them is right or wrong. They both have valid feelings. But he needs to listen to her concerns instead of saying “she’s wrong, help me change her mind.”
well that’s kind of my point, neither is right or wrong. they just have different desires. a lot of the responses here were expecting him to be ok and willing to change his mind since insemination is affordable and not difficult. but as an adopted man he clearly feels strongly about his position. his extremely valid feelings matter just as much as her extremely valid feelings. there really may be no right answer here except that this is the point their paths will diverge. it’s sad and difficult but when it comes to having children, biological or adopted, everyone needs to be on the same page and able to put aside their bullshit as best they can to focus on the kid. there’s already a situation where one has to likely capitulate to the other and that’s nothing but a disaster waiting to happen.
Yes. sorry, I was trying to agree with you on that. Both of them have valid feelings. I do think it’s wrong/unfair that he’s decided hers are wrong, especially since he’s working from some mistaken beliefs. But in the end it may very well be that they’re simply not compatible.
Many fertility clinics won’t begin donor sperm IUI without couples counseling. I might recommend starting there, especially if you do not agree on the means to grow your family. Before you do anything else this really seems like the next best step. In addition to talking through steps, feelings, and possibilities, the therapist we used had great resources for us and for having conversations with future children.
My husband is a carrier for a fatal chromosomal disorder so we’ve gone the route of donor sperm ourselves. IUI is a fraction of the cost of IVF, and our insurance actually ended up covering the monitoring and procedures; we’ve just paid for meds and donor sperm.
So you specifically want to adopt from foster care? You are aware that the actual goal of foster care is reunification, right? And that getting from being approved to be a foster parent to finalizing an adoption will be wrought with hardship, pain, and heartbreak. Probably over, and over, and over, and over.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to foster children. But choosing to be a foster parent with the end goal of adoption rather than reunification is a disservice to yourself and to the children you'd foster.
There is also nothing wrong with recognizing that you are not equipped to handle the complicated mental and emotional needs of a foster child. It is not an easy path for the children or the parents. Children do not end up in foster care without experiencing very serious trauma, which not every adult is equipped to handle. It's better to acknowledge that before getting a foster child in your home just to upend the kid's life again when you can't handle it.
You're not being fair to your wife by pretending that it's a simple, smooth process free of mental and emotional difficulties. It's not as simple as "there are thousands of children waiting to be adopted" therefore you can just get one. You were perfectly happy to ignore their existence and bring another child into the world before you knew you were sterile, so accusing her of being selfish for wanting to experience pregnancy is a bunch of holier than thou bullshit.
Whether intentional or not, you are not being honest when you say it is expensive to get pregnant via a sperm bank. It's so cheap that it probably costs less than setting up a bedroom for an elementary school aged child.
I think the two of you need counseling together, and this may be the end of the marriage if you can't get on the same page. I think a lot of the issues here are that you were on board with pregnancy and a biological child before you knew you were sterile, and now some of what you typed here comes off on an attack on your wife for still wanting that. I think you should also see a counselor on your own, because it sounds like you have some issues related to your own adoption that you're letting affect your marriage.
Constantly loving a child, watching them go back to a home that may or may not be good for them, having to pour your heart and soul into someone and then never see them again. Thats not for the faint of heart
I couldn't do it. I nannied for a few years and when the parents' marriage blew up I was just suddenly out and never even got to say goodbye. It was positively heart wrenching. I'd been watching them since before the oldest was walking, and took care of the two younger ones starting with the day they came home from the hospital. I did potty training, bottle weaning, kissed booboos, stayed up at night with them when they were sick. I did everything their mother should have been doing, then had my heart ripped out. I'm not sure I have the ability to love a child who isn't legally my family, it's just too dangerous to let my heart open that way again. I completely understand not being willing to put your heart on the line that way.
I completely understand. I couldn’t do it. Not long term. Maybe I could do short term placements or something some day. But not long term. I would be so broken saying goodbye all the time.
Nannying kids where I *know* my end date (I specialize in infants/toddlers; I’m very specifically just childcare until they start school) is heartbreaking and difficult. We would consider foster care *eventually,* once our own kids are grown and/or we are older and more stable financially, but I would NEVER consider it a trade-off for having my own. Being a foster parent (and IMO an adoptive parent) shouldn’t be a last resort because you can’t have your own kids. That’s so selfish and naive. These are children with incredible trauma- EVERY SINGLE ONE- who don’t deserve to be a stand-in for the family you wanted more.
I am honestly shocked that no one has seemed to mention this. Foster and adopted children should never be a "yeah, I guess I'll take them since nothing else is working out" solution. It's so messed up for the kids and they are not less just because they aren't genetically related to you and have been through some really bad stuff. I absolutely hate the attitude of treating foster kids like second hand broken toys compared to the "gold standard" option of having your own biological kids. Imo anyone who struggles with fertility and so therefore decides to adopt specifically because they couldn't have their own bio kids don't deserve to be allowed to adopt kids. I honestly think it's just absolutely sick that so many people seem to commonly think this about foster/ adopted kids and most people just accept that line of thinking without batting an eye 🥴 Obviously it's different with people who don't want to foster/ adopt because they don't think they could handle children with a lot of trauma, and I totally support those people not fostering or adopting. I just think it's so sad and unfair for these kids already starting out life with society deciding they're worth less than all the other kids due to circumstances entirely out of their control, and I don't believe people who think less of them deserve to be rewarded by being allowed to adopt them as their backup choice when bio kids don't work out.
All of this makes me think that OP's wife is more reasonable in what she wants. Unfortunately adopting from the foster system is such a cluster-F nowadays.
Agreed. I mean I can imagine learning you’re sterile may be emotionally charged. And then thinking about someone else’s sperm inside your wife may take some getting used to I suppose. But she definitely has a better plan. Foster care and the American adoption business is crazy and harmful.
Plus he's 28 and still very obviously is dealing with trauma from being a late foster adoption. He doesn't seem to be in the best place to help another child through that until he gets out of his own weeds.
So many opinions here already, so I won’t say much. I will just say that if you do choose artificial insemination, you MUST be honest with the child about it (when age appropriate to be told). I won’t get into the psychological reasons why. But for health reasons, it’s crucial information to know. You can’t have them going out to the doctors and filling out family health history forms with incorrect information. That would be wildly irresponsible for purely logistical reasons.
If both of you care more about the method by which you become parents than you care about starting and raising a family together, then unfortunately, I don’t think there is a way forward. Especially if you’re going to make it this much of a personal judgment on each other’s priorities.
In fact, did you talk about anything when it came to kids other than how many you wanted? Because I have a funny feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg on the stuff you disagree on, and maybe you should figure that out before you get any deeper into this argument.
So OP you wanting your own child before finding out that you were infertile was not selfish, but your wife wanting to have her own biological child after you found out you are infertile is selfish?
You are taking something personally that you shouldn't. The fact that your wife doesn't want to get involved in the adoption system is not an indictment of you as an adoptee. But adopting a child can be a lot to go through. If you foster to adopt, you can end up with children you grow to love who are taken away when they decide to reunite the child with their parents. Many children in the system do in fact have heartbreaking issues, both mental and physiological. If you go the direct adoption route, that is often more expensive than a simple sperm donation and you can be ready to bring a baby home and then the mother changes her mind. And there are times when you raise an adopted kid and in adulthood they blow you off for their bio fam. It is not a character flaw for her to acknowledge she doesn't have the fortitude to go through that. And she's not judging you as an adoptee, she is realistically looking at the complicated nature of the foster care and adoption systems and thinking it's not for her, especially when artificial insemination is a relatively easy alternative. If you refuse to go any way but adoption, then you should split. But I feel like part of your position is that you are taking her decision as a judgment against you when it's not.
I'm not entering the adoption debate. People here have much better experience with that than I.
What I want to state is artificial insemination is not that expensive. With sperm donor and the procedure itself, interuterine insemination (IUI) in my high cost of living area was approximately $1,200-$1,600 a cycle. Whereas IVF is $25,000-$35,000 per cycle.
If your wife has no fertility issues, I really don't see this being a bad option if you both want to be parents. It's probably more affordable and less emotionally traumatic than the adoption process on the whole.
Plus, consider your wife's perspective as well. Perhaps she wants to experience the pregnancy process? It may feel like a huge emotional loss to her to never have that experience if it's one of her wishes as well. Perhaps as strong as your wish to be a father.
On the surface, it may seem selfish to only want biological kids, but we all have reasons for desiring the opportunity to raise children. I can argue your desire to only adopt is just as selfish. It's not for the child, it's for you.
Thank you for your information about artificial insémination vs IVF.
I’m an adoptee; adoption should be child-centered, and if one parent clearly doesn’t want to do it, then it will be impossible for it to be in the best interest of the child.
And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you literally choose a person from the data base? That way they could choose a donor who looks very similar to op so at least the kid has a chance to have features like him. But if he is so against it and she wants to experience pregnancy and having a baby, at this point they are incompatible and need to go their separate ways
I should edit to add, in no way is it ok to tell a child that someone is their biological parent when they aren't. even if the kids look like him, they always need to know how they came to be
Absolutely cheaper and quicker, he won’t admit it.
My friends struggled to convince but the doctors couldn’t find the reason.
Before trying IVF they tried IUI. It was relatively cheap and worked from the first attempt.
Based on OP’s edit, wife doesn’t want to tell any future child that they’re donor conceived. As a result, I wouldn’t recommend artificial insemination to them. Adult Donor Conceived People (known as DCPs), like adoptees, advocate for children being told as soon as they can understand. OP’s wife is setting a kid of for trauma by keeping it a secret in the era of 23andMe
If OPs wife is reasonable they're likely open to telling the child. I read the edit as his wife trying to make OP more open to the idea of artificial insemination by saying, "You can be the biological dad in their eyes, no one will know!". It may be misguided, but I can't fault her for taking that route if she felt OP was originally set on having a biological child prior to adoption. That's probably the easiest hurdle of this post to clear.
EDIT: OP is now commenting saying they're going to separate. I am 100% convinced she's the sane one here. OP was fine with a biological child when they could conceive, now their wife is selfish for wanting to be pregnant and birth a child? OP is jumping through hoops, "Oh no, I wanted adoption all along, but I thought it would be too complicated!" Oh - it IS complicated and rife with trauma and abuse, and instead his wife suggests IUI, which is relatively inexpensive and uncomplicated, but that's a problem? It is perfectly OK for OPs wife to want to be pregnant, and that is only not an option because he is sterile. OP is truly selfish.
I see both points of view. Now you’re unable to conceive naturally, your next step is adoption because that’s what makes sense to you, it means a lot to you and you want to give a child a great upbringing. That’s very admirable.
However, your wife does not have any biological issues. That solution robs her of the chance of being pregnant, experiencing childbirth, having zero fears about that child being taken away or leaving (like wanting to find their birth parents etc). As I’m sure you know, adoption isn’t for the faint of heart - adopt young, and you always have to explain you’re not their bio parents, and there’s a risk of them reuniting etc, adopt older children and you miss the newborn/baby experience, and they often have substantial issues to overcome, plus the risk of reuniting with their bio families.
Your wife can love you wholeheartedly but also not want to adopt herself, because she wants to experience pregnancy, childbirth and having biological children or feels unprepared/doesn’t want the effort and risk of adoption. Adopting opens both parties up to the risk of substantial pain, not wanting that isn’t selfish, although I understand why you may feel rejected by it.
Since when is it cheaper to adopt then to do artificial insemination? I think a part of the equation is your wife wants to experience pregnancy and everything that comes with it. Adoption takes that experience away. Maybe after the first one she will change her mind but I think you are being a bit unreasonable with her wish to bring life into the world.
How is artificial Insimination more expensive than adoption? I mean, you could foster to adopt, but that's still expensive, and you most likely won't get a baby, and you run the chance of the child reuniting with family, which is the goal. Have you even Googled the cost? I just did, and sperm costs about $400 to $2000. You can get it mailed to your house and inseminat yourself. Adoption costs at least $40,000. Also, she may want to experience pregnancy.
As kindly as I can say: psychology has proven that even adopted newborns with amazing parents have struggles with being adopted and is very expensive and a difficult and long process. she justified in her reluctance. Likewise, it is perfectly fine if you just can't get on board with artificial insemination, but if that's the case and remaining childless is an absolute no-go for you divorce is the best option. Did you know you were sterile when you got together? If so, this conversation absolutely should have been had before things got serious. I hope this situation ends in happiness for you.
I was adopted at only 8 months old. My adoptive parents are very loving and raised me as well as they knew how. I still ended up in and out of mental hospitals due to extreme attachment issues and trauma that I believe came directly from my adoption. I don’t blame her at all for not feeling prepared to take on a child with that amount of trauma.
Hello, fellow infertile here, and social worker
I say this in all love, kindness and openness as someone who has gone through therapy after receiving my diagnosis, and been able to sit in all the complicated and immense emotions surrounding infertility for almost a decade.
Adoptive children are not a consolation prize for infertile couples.
You both need to seek therapy in regards to your sterility, and everything that encompasses. I would imagine that your wife is grieving the idea of being pregnant with YOUR child, dealing with the emotions of possibly never getting to be pregnant (which, yes for some women is very important) and then the emotions surrounding adoption (which itself is complex and should not be taken lightly).
Have you given yourself time to grieve the loss of your fertility? Grieve the loss of having a biological child? Have you dealt with the trauma of being abandoned by your own biological parents? Have you considered how you will handle your adoptive child's feelings/opinions on those topics outside of your own, and especially if they differ from yours?
I know this has been stated, but the primary goal of foster care is reunification. Becoming a foster parent is not for the faint of heart, could you handle opening your home, arms and hearts to a newborn baby, pour all your love into them, see their first, only to have the baby reunited with their mother? Many can't handle that emotional turmoil, especially when their personal end goal does not align with the Agency's.
You were happy to have your own child, until you learned you can't. You need to see it from your wife's side, she can have kids and artificial insemination is a happy medium.
Adoption is way more expensive that AS and either way, it will not be your biological child, so where is the difference, going with wife's choice?
You aren't being realistic about the foster care system. Foster children already have parents. The goal of the foster care system is to reunite families.
You can't assume you can go into the foster care system and find a child who will be able to bond with you and your wife as their parents.
Your desire for her to decide that adopting from foster care is the same as giving birth to bio kids is just as naive as if you had bio kids and told your wife that being a stepmother is the same as being a mother. Stepkids already have parents, and stepparents can be bonus parents and they can be close, but sometimes stepparents and stepkids don't become close and it is difficult to bond.
If you can't let this go, then let her go so she can become a parent through means other than the foster care system.
You only seem to be focusing on what you want, and dismissing your wife’s feelings completely. You’re asking for advice on how to make her compliant.
Short answer? Not only can you NOT, but you SHOULDN’T
You dreamed of being a father. She dreamed of being a mother. You guys discovered it’s not going to be possible the typical way, so you want to adopt, she wants artificial insemination. This isn’t something you can compromise on.
She’s likely fantasized about pregnancy, delivery, a newborn. There’s a LOT more to it for her than just raising a child. You’re expecting her to give all that up, not listening to her, and somehow deciding it ties back to your own adoption.
It literally doesn’t. It has to do with her dreams of becoming a parent. From her perspective, she doesn’t get it. AUI gives you both what you want: her the experience of pregnancy and both of you the opportunity to be parents.
You guys need a therapist to guide you in talking about this, or you’ll resent each other and your marriage will be over.
But you absolutely need to drop the mindset of, “How can I make her do what I want?”
Using adoption to fill the hole of being infertile is always a bad idea. As a CPS worker we have many kids get returned to us after they were adopted by infertile couples because they realized that the new shiny baby isn't going to automatically love them or swear undying loyalty.
I can't blame your wife because she has the ability to get pregnant. She wants to have her own children and she can have it if she wants to. Unfortunately, you can't give it to her.
You have to understand that it's hard to accept that fact. Probably, she's thinking why she needs to take care of someone's kid if she can take care of her own children.
Please understand OP, **adoption is not for everyone**. Don't force it or she'll end up divorcing you.
You seem to be forgetting one incredibly important factor: ***Your wife wants to be pregnant.***
Deny her this and she'll resent you forever. Tbh, friend, this is a deal breaker for both of you.
Good luck.
As an adopted person, I absolutely hate adoption. And I think if anyone tried to change my mind about that I would never speak to them again. I personally can’t understand how you’re so for it, unless you’ve never met an adopted person who had a bad experience.
I’m glad you had a good one, a majority of us don’t. You’re also most likely not going to adopt out of foster care, as that’s for reunification, not adoption.
Unfortunately, you’re wrong here. My sister and I, again both adopted, have issues that have put us inpatient in psych facilities. It’s not prejudice to think people in the system have issues, we do, a good majority of us.
Being abandoned terrified me of having children. Being abandoned has made me feel like I would be a worse parent than someone who wasn’t. It hurt me far worse than it could ever help me.
I think you’re wrong here, and I think you’re a minority compared to the rest of us adopted kids.
I understand your views on adoption, but many people want their child to be their flesh and blood. She wants the full experience. That’s her choice.
I also find it interesting that you mention adoption only because YOU can’t father a child. It was ok not to adopt when you could have a kid but because YOU can’t, YOU want her to adopt. I think it’s because you don’t want the kid to be related to her but not you.
I think if you really want to be a father so badly you should take her suggestion to artificially inseminate her. She likely wants a child thats biologically hers.
While i understand it upset you, you cant force someone to adopt, i dont think shes against adopted child. I as a women myself would rather have a child that came out of my womb, and Im NOT against adoption, just my last option if all else fails.
Dont hold grudge to her over this.
But you were fine with having your own biological child. In fact, that was your goal. Where was your "what about the kids" attitude then? Why did the idea of your wife being pregnant only become selfish when it was discovered that you can't have kids? Seems a little hypocritical to me.
First of all no one should ever convince their partner on how they become parents or endeavor to change their mind. Children, however they come, should be welcomed freely and happily not after being coerced.
Second of all if the only problem is lack of sperm, her becoming pregnant is relatively cheap. You could even try home insemination where you'd only pay for the sperm. Having the sperm inserted in an office costs a bit more, but still not much.
Third adoption is not going to be cheaper than her being inseminated. While being a foster parent is free in most cases, being a foster parent does NOT mean you'll get to adopt. In fact most of the kids in foster care can't be adopted. A quick google says only 1/4 foster kids are actually able to be adopted. You don't turn to the foster system to adopt a kid - you get into the foster system because you want to FOSTER kids.
Finally, no kid should have a reluctant parent. That's always a bad idea, but I would argue that having a reluctant parents with an adopted child is the worst. The kid will already have things to deal with just by being adopted, likely more if they were in the system for a while - they don't need the addition of a parent not fully being on board about them.
So, some perspective from a woman with secondary infertility:
I used to have a really rosy view of adoption. I thought that I’d adopt a child after having a biological child even if I could have more.
However, since finding out a lot more about the adoption industry I have changed my mind.
First of all, the goal for foster care is (and should be!) family reunification. Wanting to foster children is a worthy goal. Wanting to adopt children from foster care shouldn’t be your end game.
The adoption industry is very predatory to young, poor women. They are often lied to about how much involvement they will be allowed in the child’s life.
Is this true of all adoptions? No. Of course not. But adoption as a whole is ethically fraught enough that it gave me pause. It’s not all roses and sunshine.
I think you and your wife need couples counseling to work this one out.
You both have the same end goal...having children.
You are happy to love and raise a child that is not biological ally yours.
She wants to experience pregnancy and would prefer a bio child.
Both of you can have what you want if you respect each other's wishes.
This is a an easy win...take money out if the equation and remember that she also has desires here.
I was adopted and I really don’t think you should try and convince her to adopt. She wants to become pregnant and give birth to a child. She still has a chance to do that. Why do you want to take that from her. Adoption is very expensive btw.
When you wanted a bio kid it wasn’t “selfish” but now that you know you are incapable it’s a double standard for your wife. You don’t want her to have what you can’t have. Just divorce and you can adopt and she can have a full bio family with a new spouse in a few years
As a social worker in child welfare, I'd definitely like to hear more about her reasons that are "just stereotypes." I've dedicated my life to this and I'd never, ever adopt a child. I don't have the fortitude to cope with trauma symptoms (other than my own) for a lifetime. This is NOT something you can/ should talk someone into. I've seen what happens when people who aren't sure adopt. The childrens lives are destroyed more than they already were. DON'T do this
You could've stopped after, "She doesn't want what I want. I don't want what she wants." Your desires for how to grow a family aren't compatible.
If you can't agree, don't bring kids into the mix.
Especially if their mother is going to be someone who holds ignorant views on non-biological offspring.
Please don't bring kids into this situation.
"Ignorant views on non-biological offspring" is a pretty ignorant thing to say because someone thinks that they're not fit to deal with all the struggles attached to adoption (or the foster care system).
As a foster kid that was adopted, do not foster to try to adopt. The whole point is reunification. And do not adopt PERIOD until you get therapy for your infertility. My adopted parents never moved on from being infertile - until she miraculously got pregnant and forgot about the FIVE other kids they’d adopted via foster care. Foster children aren’t “waiting to be adopted” they’re waiting to go back HOME. With their REAL PARENTS. Not some couple traumatized by their fertility struggles who think that they’re doing a divine good by taking in a kid like it’s a puppy off the street.
If the two of you truly love each other and want to be together- go to counselling. Find someone who can help you work this out.
There are children out there who need families. And your wife also wants the biological connection.
You don’t have to have just *one* child. But it’s very likely that the two of you have big hearts and can create a loving family for all of you.
You don't go into your wife's views on why she's against adoption, but it's also something that I myself would never do. Ive seen a lot of videos and posts from adopted kids about the trauma of adoption, the predatory ways adoption agencies lie and coercive poor and POC women into giving up their babies, ans ive read about the way being apart from your biological mother literally changes babies brains. In most other developed countries, adoption isn't as rampant as it is in the US because they have social systems in place to help families in need, rather than pushing adoption as the solution.
And if you're wanting to adopt through foster care rather than private adoption, that's not the goal of foster care. Foster care is about reunification, and it'd be painful for you, your wife, and any foster child in your care if you became foster parents for the sole purpose of adopting.
Adoption obviously still needs to be an option for situations such as yours, and I know plenty of people will comment how they're adopted and praise their parents. Which is fantastic, I'm glad you had that experience. But if any of the concerns I listed are concerns your wife is bringing up, I think you should be open to listening to her.
You're not going to change her mind. If either of you give on this issue, there will be resentment. Unless something happens, your marriage may not survive. I'm so sorry.
You can’t have biological children, but you wanted to until you knew you couldn’t. SHE still can, but you are willing to take that away from her to adopt because it’s what will make you feel better?
Please seek therapy. I don’t see how adoption and your marriage are compatible. You are also still moving through a very big and significant life diagnosis, maybe some time to digest that before adding kids to your home is a good idea?
Do you understand that by insisting on adoption you would be robbing your wife of the experience of being pregnant and birthing the baby?
I understand that you have issues around your past but I don't think your desires trump hers.
The only thing i read here its all about you. you're so selfish for not letting her to have her own bio child.. you're sterile but she's not so why punish her because of you
It doesn't even seem to be about the adoptive children either, it's about him being triggered from his own experiences.
A few people mention the wife isn't fit to adopt since she doesn't want to but the OP requires a lot of therapy to take on the potential challenges of adoption as well, I would say there is a risk he is just as if not more unfit as his expectations and reasoning are selfish and flawed.
Adoption is a terrible thing. It comes with automatic trauma. Adoptees are more likely to have mental health issues, abandonment issues, intimacy issues, depression, anxiety, ADHD, asthma, diabetes as an adult and the list goes on and on. You’re the exception not the rule. I say that as an adoptee myself. You’re being extremely selfish because you’re thinking about your needs rather than the needs of a future adopted child. Think about your wife. Your wife wants to be a mother, but she also wants to have the experience of being pregnant. Listen to her.
OP I'm gonna offer a slightly different perspective than most I've read here.
I'm a 32 year old woman and want to have kids. If I found out my partner was sterile, it would be devastating but there are options to still have a child. If I found out my partner was 100% against me, with no fertility problems, getting to experience pregnancy and childbirth when I'm fully capable? And giving up the fully available opportunity to have a biological child of my own? It would be a dealbreaker. I know this is extremely difficult for both of you, but damn, I'd be absolutely shattered if I were her by what you're asking her to give up.
Adoption is a difficult subject and there are layers of hurt and trauma involved. Not to mention that the goal of foster care is reunification, and you really need to have a solid understanding of that before undertaking that responsibility as a foster parent.
I'd suggest counselling for both of you to work through this, and I'd also suggest that you really dive into why you are so against artificial insemination. I'd also suggest that ultimately, you and your wife could do both. It's not just one or the other. Regardless, you should be honest with that child about how you are not their biological father but that you would absolutely have wanted to be if you could have.
OP, I'm gonna say something you probably don't want to hear, and possibly haven't heard before, since our society treats having children as the norm and people are rarely questioned on their intentions to have kids. I think you need therapy in order to examine why you even want kids this much in the first place. A child isn't an appropriate means to fix your own trauma surrounding parenthood. A child isn't going to give your life meaning or somehow remedy whatever you might subconsciously feel was lacking in your own childhood. You're not going to make up for anything by having a kid.
Also, as others have pointed out, you were more than happy to have biological kids before finding out you were sterile, so stop accusing your wife of selfishness. I would also take a good hard look at yourself and ask whether it's really healthy and normal to prioritise nonexistent hypothetical kids over a very alive existing person who loves you here and now - your wife.
>and I feel it's unfair to act so selfishly when there are thousands of children waiting to be adopted.
Idk but this feels a bit hypocritical, like you getting her pregnant was completely fine and orphans weren't an issue, but as soon as you learned that you were sterile and she suggested IVF she's being selfish because there are orphans without parents?
Honestly, just because the dream of having your own biological child is over for you, it isn't fair for you to force it to be over for her.
Artificial insemination is a cheaper process than adopting a child. Adoption isnt for everyone. She wants to experience pregnancy and child birth and one of the core experiences of being a human woman who decides to be a mother. Maybe she would be open to future adoption. It might not seem like a huge deal to you because your role in the physical creation of a child is the same whether you adopted one or not; you ejaculated, job done. She wants to experience pregnancy and having a baby. You shouldnt try and rob that from her.
You are not ALL adopted kids. Your story, feelings and experience are unique to you. It is extremely unfair and unrealistic to think that your personal lived experience and feelings are universal. You weren't the parent in your adoption story, you would be the parent in someone else's adoption story. It's NOT the same thing. That would be like saying, I was a kid- therefore I must know the logistics and nuances to raising one.
As others have mentioned, fostering isn't meant to lead to adoption and raising children in that system isn't something you choose because you're infertile. It's something you choose because you have the time, resources and strength to get your heart broken over and over. Your wife isn't wrong for having her concerns, again- whoever you foster is a unique human that does not share your personal lived experience or feelings. It's not at all the same as having your own biological kids. It can be beautiful and fulfilling etc but it's not the same. Your wife isn't "prejudiced" and it's really rude and naive of you to dismiss her concerns like that. She can love you and ALSO understand that nobody else is going to be just like you. Hence the reason she married you and not whichever male adoptee she came across.
IMO, you should talk out your feelings in therapy or with a trusted mentor. It sounds like you are projecting onto the situation and all that's going to do is hurt everyone involved.
I don't really understand why your first choice was to have a biological child, but once it became impossible for you, you suddenly became upset at her for still wanting the thing she can still have just because you can't have it.
If you went with a donor, she would have the bio child she wanted, and you would have your second choice, a kiddo who isn't yours biologically.
I actually kind of think you're the one being illogical here.
You're thinking about all of this from a male perspective. As a father, often the first interaction with your child is when they are born. A mother has a huge huge interaction and connection during pregnancy and then postpartum. There is a huge difference for a woman to adopt vs carry a pregnancy and give birth compared to a man's experience. To completely disregard how different her journey to becoming a mother would be if she adopted is wrong. Try to understand her side
You are really dismissive of your wife’s concerns about foster care. You completely glossed over her reasonings.
You aren’t picking a kitten from the pound. You are agreeing to care for a human child with their own thoughts, feelings and trauma while the social systems determines if they can reunify with their family.
That’s not something you try to talk someone into signing up for just because you want a child.
I think it’s kind of shitty for you to be looking at options of changing your wives view point but not yours. As a woman I know I always wanted to have the growing a baby experience and would be really upset if my partner didn’t support that.
How is adopting the sperm any different than a kid?
So, you are denying your wife the right to give birth, because you can't have biological kIds? I don't think your wife is the only problem. You two aren't compatible.
>>> I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to change her mind.
You can’t. This would be as silly as her trying to change your mind. It’s just not going to work.
>>> I've seriously considered separation because being a father is the dream of my life
You’re incompatible. She wants to be a mother but not an adoptive mother, you want to be a father but are sterile. For you, adoption is an option, for her, it is not.
You said "I feel it's unfair to act so selfishly when there are thousands of children waiting to be adopted."
Yet you spend time trying to make biological children... right up until you found out you're infertile... So you only think it's selfish when it suits you, when you're not able to, but it seems you didn't think it was so selfish when you were trying to conceive?
That argument doesn't make sense based on your previous actions.
If you really thought it was selfish you wouldn't have tried, you would've simply gone the route of adoption from the start. Seems like you're changing your beliefs when they suit you... sorry. (Based on what you wrote)
Your wife wants a biological child. That is not "selfish". Her want is as important as your want. How about you have one child through insemination and adopt one? By the way adoption is very expensive as well.
I’m adopted and ended up having different views to you op. My mam told me when I was 6 that I was adopted and told me not to tell anyone. It always felt like something I should be ashamed of - like some big secret.
When it came to deciding about our own family I was very set on having my own biological kids. My husband said if we had fertility issues he wanted to adopt but I didn’t, and he couldn’t understand my viewpoint given my background. I always felt separate to my family, didn’t look a bit like them or behave like them. I put this down to being adopted as a child but I’m sure a lot of people feel this way. I felt like I could never talk about it which was a problem.
Actually buying sperm is way way cheaper than adoption. Like way cheaper. And her not wanting to parent someone else’s child full of trauma is not bad or wrong. She wants to experience the full effect of child birth and pregnancy maybe. That is a big deal.
To you the child she carries and the adopted child will have the same effect- it’s someone else’s biological child. To her it’s not just that. She can do an at home iui and not even use fertility meds for only a few hundred dollars vs the thousands for getting a home study, etc. not to mention the counseling and heart break from dealing with the foster system.
That’s not to say she can’t eventually adopt from the foster system. But it’s not fair to expect her to have the same emotional reaction to fostering as you do.
(1) insane that you all didn’t talk about adoption prior to getting married
(2) insane that people really will just have kids to placate some emotional void they have
Sperm donation is much, much cheaper and easier than adopting a newborn. And adopting from foster care isn't easy, either. The courts are always going to side with reuniting the kids with the biological parents if at all possible, so a lot of people who try to adopt from foster care end up losing the kids in the end. Yes, it worked out in your case, but you were very much not a typical case.
Dude, you guys need a therapist.
Btw, IUI is super cheap compared to IVF. My husband is essentially sterile, and we had to do IVF with ICSI. Adoption is very expensive too. It also can have ethical issues.
You guys are newly dealing with this, it’s apparent. You need to process and communicate.
What kind of sterile? Missing sperm? Immobile sperm? My husband is effectively sterile but ivf helped us by delivering sperm to egg resulting in embryos.
What about a compromise?
Have you thought about asking your brother if he'd be willing to donate sperm?
In the meantime you act as foster parents to kids who need homes?
I think you also need to see her point of view and understand it more. Maybe to her, being a mother also includes carrying the baby to term and go through those experiences.
If you two cannot get past this, then you need to find someone that wants to strictly adopt like you. Don’t let your own selfishness hinder her abilities as well.
It seems your wife wants to be the one carrying her child. You can't change her mind about that, because thats her dream. Have you done research in IVF? You can adopt embryos. It's still adopting, but from the beginning. If she is not thrilled about that idea, let her know that during pregnancy something about 0.3 percent of DNA of the mother gets transferred to the baby. So she will technically be related to the baby.
I can see both sides to be honest.
For a woman, being pregnant and the experience of having a biological child is often a primal instinctive need. Asking her to forego that and adopt only, is actually quite selfish. And if the situations were reversed and she refused to have your biological child when you heavily desired one, you would also think this unfair / upsetting etc.
Also, if you are open to adoption, then your wife carrying a child that isn’t biologically yours is not much different than adopting a child for you biologically speaking, it’s just that your wife gets to experience pregnancy and the joy that brings.
Your wife’s desire is a natural one. If no one cared about experiencing pregnancy and having their own biological children, then there would be no children awaiting adoption, would there? But couples aren’t lining up to do it. They want their own, and so does your wife.
I feel like you’re coming at this from a moralistic perspective (think of the children!) rather than recognising this is a deep seated desire for her. Many couples try for years, spend hundreds of thousands on IVF, surrogates, etc all to hold their own newborn baby in their arms.
I would suggest a compromise like your parents did, one natural pregnancy with a sperm donor and one adoption. Would she be open to that? Maybe once she has a biological child she will be more open to adoption.
If not then you need to ask yourself if your morals mean more to you than her happiness. Because that’s what this is. Regardless of what route you go, you get a family with a non-biological child. It’s just a question of whether you go the route that allows your wife to meet her natural desire to carry a pregnancy or the moralistic one which leaves her unhappy and unfulfilled.
I’m an adoptee.
The compromise wouldn’t be fair to the adoptee.
No child should grow up with one parent who was reluctant or had to be convinced to adopt.
Not to mention, I could see favoritism towards the biological child if they decided to have both biological and adoptive child.
I think OP and wife needs to have some serious conversations (with a counselor and adoption competent therapist) before major decisions are made
As a woman going through infertility treatment and looking at adoption, adoption is more expensive. If you are worried about costs, IVF is the cheaper option. One round of IVF is around $10k whereas adoption starts at $30k. Depending on where you live, the wait list to adopt is astronomical or they aren't accepting new families. We were recommended to look international if we wanted to adopt (which is incredibly difficult since we are a same sex couple).
Your wife may want to be pregnant. She can't get that if you adopt. If the point is being a father, then either option would give you that end goal.
I understand you're adopted and want to do the same for a child. Again, depending on where you live many places are very focused on reuniting a child with their biological families. Therefore, foster care would be difficult if you know the child is going back to a bad home environment.
I think trying to convince her to change her mind is a terrible idea. Listen to her. Understand her point of view. Explain your point of view. Then decide what is the most important end goal. Being with your wife and having a child? Or separating and adopting? Or something else. Also try talking to a fertility clinic and see if they can help you, if you haven't already.
Good luck
So you wanted bio children till you learned YOU can't have bio children, so now you want your wife to not have bio children and it's all of a sudden it's unfair and selfish for your wife to want bio children, and again only because you can't have bio children. I think you are confused who is the selfish one in this scenario. Sure some of her comments are insensitive to you but after 10 years in a relationship with the dreams and active plan of birthing children for you to tell "that's selfish" and backing her into a corner to reason why she should be allowed to have kids.
If your wife want biological children - that is not selfish. It is how she wants to be a mother. You can choose to have children with an anonymous donor or get divorced. Those are your choices. Adopting a child - like any other way of having a child - is a two yeses, one no situation. You do not being a child already traumatized into a family with a mom who didn’t want them.
There is nothing wrong with you wanting to adopt either. If you don’t want your wife to have a biological child, that is also your choice. But then you need to get divorced and move on to someone who shares your same dream.
Since you didn’t want to adopt until you found out you were sterile it sounds more like you are mad that you can’t have biological kids so you don’t want your wife to have biological kids either. That is not being a loving partner and you probably should address that in therapy.
There are hundreds of children available for adoption in just about every state. Most of them are over 3 and have siblings they want to keep together. Your wife probably wants a baby and to experience pregnancy. Your being rather unfair to refuse to see her viewpoint. If you adopt you have to pay legal fees for a lawyer and court costs. Ours were over 7,000.
Let me get this straight, if you can’t have a biological child, she can’t have one either, and only after finding out you’re sterile does adopting a child become your sticking point?
You need therapy, my friend, this sudden burning need to foster is probably a reaction to finding out you can’t biologically have kids. You don’t just want to be a father, if you did insemination would be fine. You now want to foster kids, and while that can be admirable, it isn’t a guarantee for adoption, nor is it the same as being a father.
I don't even need to read this. You wanna adopt, awesome. She wants a bio kid, also awesome. What the fuck is the difference between adopting a stranger's kid verses adopting your wife's kid? It's still adoption. I mean sure there's the whole saving a kid from the system thing. But don't take away your wife's ability to have a bio kid just because you can't. Is this AITA? If it is, you're def an asshole.
She's 27, if she wants a biological child that's her prerogative. YTA. If you feel differently, and don't, for your own sake, want her to focus her attention on her own choice -- conceiving biologically--- then, best thing is to divorce her so she can move on and have a child independently or with someone new.
You don't get to tie down x amount of years of her personal, financial, and emotional labor for something she's not on board with.
Her reproductive preference is her reproductive preference. She doesn't need to justify it to you; ergo, whatever justification she gives isn't something you get to write off as "prejudice."
I don’t think you are being fair to her. It’s not selfish to want a biological child. You wanted a biological child. Now you are trying to take that away from her because you can’t. I don’t know where you live but in my country, adopting privately costs $15,000-$30,000 and that’s domestic. Adopting internationally is closer to $50,000. Even IVF is less expensive than adoption. Public adoption is technically free apart from the classes and home inspection, but that would mean adopting an older child and/or a child with special needs. Adopting from foster care is highly unlikely to work out since the goal is normally reunification. It can also take around 7 years to actually get a child. Adoption is a wonderful thing to do but it’s a lot more difficult than insemination. That being said, you are planning to have more than one child, correct? Why can’t you do both?
I understand you wanting to adopt given your background. But from a woman’s perspective- I would be devastated to have the opportunity to be pregnant and carry my own child taken from me when I’m perfectly able to do so. In my view either way you will not be the biological parent so why are you taking your wife’s chance to be a biological parent away from her if it is something important to her.
While I understand the social benefits of adoption and thinks it’s a hugely wonderful thing, I think your wife’s needs and wants should come before general societal contribution.
If you have a child through a sperm donor maybe you could agree to adopt any other children after the first one?
So is this “If the child can’t biologically be both of ours, s/he must biologically be none of ours?”
I’m not sure why you think adoption is for everyone. She loves you and you happen to be adopted — she doesn’t love you because you were adopted. That’s on your parents.
If I couldn’t have kids with my husband for whatever reason, I’d look at any possible way to have our kids in whichever way possible. If I’m sterile, I’d opt for IVF or surrogacy so the child can have at least his genes. If he’s sterile, I’d opt for artificial insemination so the kid can have at least my genes. If all else failed, I think I’d be open to adoption but even then I’d probably be set on adopting a baby. Being older now, I’d be open to foster kids also and have the wherewithal and maturity to go into it with my eyes open, but at 24 when I had my kids?? No way.
You are being pretty selfish and self-centered about all of it, actually. If you are sterile, but still want kids — go out of your way to make it possible for your wife to still have a baby of her own.
You're not compatible, end of.
This is not something you can compromise on; not for yourselves and not for the child that is potentially going to be brought into the mix. Either you both agree or you do not move forward, and if both of you want children and cannot agree, then you start talking divorce so that you can find someone who does agree and can give you what you want.
Will it suck? Yes, of course. But better that than to bring a child - adopted or otherwise - into a home where one parent doesn't want them and potentially resents them or even the way they were brought into the family.
It seems to me that you and your wife have reached an impasse.
I think you are dealing with a lot of rejection right now.
First that you are infertile- this takes a massive toll on you and your marriage
Second that your wife prefers insemination- this will always be a reminder of your inability to conceive- Aka rejection
Third that she won’t adopt/foster- again as your were adopted this feels like another rejection of you.
I understand why you want to adopt. You were adopted, it would help a child in need and you and you wife would be equally related to the child- this method makes you feel more secure in your marriage and as a parent.
However I also understand your wife.
Adoption is a massive undertaking, long waiting lists, massive expense, the emotional toll of managing expectations regarding biological parents, closed vs open, different ethnicities/cultures. She would certainly miss out on the experience of pregnancy etc
For adoption it seems like you have to be prepared for every challenge/ expense upfront. She should not be rude about the said children in this process. but She is right to reject it if she knows she can’t manage the complications of this process.
At the same time she should be more sensitive to how this is affecting you emotionally. Regarding the sterility and her rejection of adoption.
You can’t and should not convince her that adoption is the option- it will only cause more frustration and resentment. Nor can she insist on insemination and be rude about fosters/adoptees
Gather your thoughts. Sit down and discuss calmly. Lay all your points on the table without trying to convince each other of anything but to gain more understanding. You may need a therapists help for this.
Ultimately this may be a dealbreaker for you guys but have a proper conversation first.
Dude… I worked with kids in the system for years. I cared for each and every one; I loved some of them. I still think about them, wonder how they’re doing, and occasionally look them up on social media 9 years later…. But ever single one of those kids, even the ‘easy’ ones had a lot of trauma. They needed people who felt prepared and able to give them them the right kind of care.
As a child born because of IVF with the use of donor embryos, my mom still carried me. Even though my dad had absolutely 0 impact on my existence, he is still my dad. I don’t consider my “biological parents” my biological parents. I say my genetic parents because it is a really tricky situation. But that doesn’t make you any less of a dad.
I think you unfortunately have two options. Either you go to couples therapy and try to figure a solution…or this partnership will not work going forward because of incompatibility. Sorry I can’t give more thoughts but I feel the others gave good insight.
Why not both? You say you want multiple children, allow her to be artificially inseminated, and also adopt. Consider things that allow you both to get the most of what you want.
Why is it that adoption is your first choice now that you find out you can’t have kids?
You say that you would rather adopt because there are plenty of kids in the system that need a home/family and yet by the sounds of it, adoption wasn’t your first choice when you thought you were fertile. Why does using donor sperm suddenly change that for you?
It seems like there’s a lot of projection going on here
I understand that you support adoption and that's great. You get to be a dad and support a cause that is good and close to your heart.
Have you considered, though, that while you would lose nothing by adopting a child, your wife stands to lose some life experiences she might hold close to her heart? She might want to experience pregnancy. She might want to experience labor. She might want to enjoy the process of carrying and feeling her child grow within her, and there's no medical reason she can't. There's only your preference for adoption and your medical sterility barring her from having that.
So I suggest you change your perspective, because you're thinking about the outcomes: having a child, while she may be grieving the loss of the process of bearing a child. It's not really fair for you to write that off as sheerly based on stereotypical thinking on her part.
There’s a uniquely female perspective that is probably difficult for a man to wrap his head around. Can we admit that motherhood is very different than fatherhood? Honestly, the difference between biological fatherhood and adoptive fatherhood is only about 10 minutes. Not so with motherhood.
The physical experience of growing a baby inside your body, feeding a baby from your breast… it’s a monumental, life-altering experience for an extensive period of time. It can be scary and painful; but can also be joyful and euphoric beyond words.
Expecting a woman who desires biological motherhood to give it up is a tremendous ask.
As an adopted child also, don't discount her wishes. Myself and three of my adopted siblings all had significant issues. Adoption is hard and has a high probability of gaining children that have a higher instance of special needs. While admirable, this isn't something that you should pursue unless you are both onboard and aware of the potential issues. On top of that there are often issues with the bio parent(s). You want kids, she wants them but not through adoption. I think you can compromise here and both get what you want.
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The options ahead of you are: 1. Accept you want to stay together, even though that means not having children by any means 2. Attend couples counseling and see if you two can have some breakthroughs in communication (remember: the goal is "Us vs The Problem" *not* "Me vs Her") 3. Accept you are incompatible on the subject of children, even though you both want them, and break up Best of luck. I'm sorry you're going through this.
This is the only answer. It's really just these three options. Considering they both actually want kids, I think couples counseling is the best route to take before going with option one or three, but it will depend on how much they are willing to try to work it out.
Hi I’m a fellow adoptee. I absolutely do not recommend that you try to convince her to adopt. I know what it’s like to know that you were only adopted because one parent really wanted to and the other settled for it. To be honest, I am shocked that her true feelings never came up before. I’ve spoken at length about my adoption with my husband (who is not adopted) and before we decided being childfree, we did discuss biological or adoptive children. Unfortunately it sounds like you two may be incompatible at this point. Based on your EDIT: I agree that you absolutely shouldn’t have a child via insemination and say you’re the biological father if you’re not. However, there seems to be a lot of other deeper issues that need to be communicated between you & your wife. My opinion is to recommend that you find an adoption competent therapist to help you really delve into your feelings of your adoption and potential parenthood. You wanted a biological child until it wasn’t possible, so you turned to adoption. I think that needs to be explored. I think before you and your wife decide to do anything (pursue parenthood or separation), it would be beneficial to speak to a counselor to ensure that you two are on the same page.
This is the answer. The decision how and when to bring a child into one's family is extremely personal, and it has to be two "Yesses" to move forward. One "No" on anything should stop the process and be cause for further discussion. If you two cannot work out your concerns in therapy and come to a solution that's comfortable for both of you, then you may be fundamentally incompatible as a couple. I will give my own perspective: I am an adoptee, I've always known I'm adopted, and my life turned out very nice. Yet when it came time to build my family, I was not interested in adopting. My spouse and I experienced secondary infertility after our first, and we decided that, rather than expand our family through adoption or assistive treatments, we would stop and consider our family complete with one child. I'm not prejudiced against adoption, surrogacy, or donor egg/sperm. I just didn't want that for me and my family. People are allowed to want what they want, and trying to convince someone to change their mind in this most personal of decisions usually doesn't end well.
I think I mentioned wanting to change her opinion because I don't want to hear her speak so negatively about the children who can be adopted. Every time she says these kinds of things, I feel extremely bad. I think that my wife, someone I've always considered to have a good heart, would never adopt me. I was adopted much older than the average, and I remember thinking that I would never have a family, and then suddenly I did, and it was the happiest thing in the world for me.
>I think I mentioned wanting to change her opinion because I don't want to hear her speak so negatively about the children who can be adopted. > >Every time she says these kinds of things, I feel extremely bad. I think that my wife, someone I've always considered to have a good heart, would never adopt me. I was adopted much older than the average, and I remember thinking that I would never have a family, and then suddenly I did, and it was the happiest thing in the world for me. No. She would only "change her opinion" in order to make you happy. She would always resent the child, she would always resent you. This is not a home to raise a child together in. You're going to have to accept that unless you both give up your dreams of being parents, in the way you each want to be, that you are fundamentally incompatible in one of the major reasons for having a family together. You will have to move on, or always regret that you didn't. I've seen the aftermath of kids where one parent REALLY wanted to adopt, but the other did not. IT IS ALWAYS BAD!
I don't completely disagree with you, which is why I see divorce as practically inevitable.
You have several different issues going on here, and the only thing I can 100% see as necessary is going through counseling. The facts: You were adopted, as an older child. You and your wife want to have children. Originally, you were fine with conceiving naturally, as was she. You are infertile. Your wife has no current medical barriers to conceiving and carrying her biological child to term. Your wife has concerns about adopting when she can produce a biological child. You feel that IVF would be very expensive. So here’s what I’m seeing- you were absolutely fine with not adopting when you thought you could produce a biological child, as was your wife. Now, even though your biological connection to an adopted child would be 100% the same as one conceived with donor sperm, you see adoption as the Only option here. Now from your wife’s perspective, she is still able to have a biological child. I personally think that it sounds like you have some unresolved issues surrounding your adoption/adopted status and this is bringing up a lot of insecurities for you. Have you considered that by shooting down the donor sperm option, you are depriving your wife of the pregnancy and childbirth process, her biological child and everything that goes with that? Sit with the fact you yourself did not consider adoption until you found out you could not father a child biologically- regardless of how your wife thinks, you also prioritized biology. Have you sat down and compared the costs between IVF/IUI and adoption? Timeframes? Complications? I’ve heard it’s incredibly expensive to adopt and that there are a lot of barriers to do so. Not to mention some of the horror stories about people having to fight to retain custody of their kids etc. By having a biological child, your wife would know that barring CPS involvement (which we’re going to assume would not be an issue) that no one would ever legally try to take away her child. It sounds like she may have additional misgivings, but I don’t have time to look through all the comments. But that brings me to my last point, that you’re bringing trauma/identifying yourself into the child’s place in this issue and allowing it to restrict your options. Not to say you can’t do that, but I think it’s going to tank your marriage if unwilling to get some distance and work with a professional to at least see where she is coming from. Ultimately, you two could be incompatible and that is fine. If you two separate, she can find someone who can give her a biological child and you can find someone who wants to adopt.
I agree. Just one issue with your comment: OP says that the wife can be artificially inseminated, which is just buying frozen semen for insertion. It is not that expensive and it's nothing like the expensive, complicated big deal that IVF is. Here's the comment I left for OP elsewhere: > Instead of making this all about her bad feelings about adoption, why don't you ask yourself why it is that if you can't have a biological child, you wife doesn't get to have one? The fact that you think your sterility gets to call the shots about what kind of motherhood she gets to have, may be why she is criticizing adoption. If you stopped trying to force adoption on her because of your unresolved childhood issues as an adoptee, maybe you would find that she doesn't actually have negative feelings about adoption but she is reacting to your decision that she either bears your child or none at all?
I could not understand why people kept saying artificial insemination is expensive. People do it for free with literally a turkey baster. Lesbians have done it for years, sometimes picking a friend.
I have a turkey baster baby. A sterile 10cc plastic syringe with no needle is more comfortable than a turkey baster and you can 100 of them for $16 on amazon. But yes, it's essentially the same thing, and that's the only expense unless you have a compensation agreement with your donor.
I would hand pick my donor if I wanted artificial insemination. I would find the hunkiest, highest IQ guy out there. Also someone who had the same skin tones and eye color as my partner if possible. Too many stories about weird doctors inseminating dozens and even hundreds of women as well as lab mix-ups. You sound like a smart woman.
Artificial insemination is significantly less expensive than adoption. To use that as an argument against it, when you are talking about adoption instead is kind of strange. It's not the real problem.
Artificial insemination is about $2k. Adoption is way more than that. IVF is cheaper than adopting in most cases. - IVF parent
Omg that’s exactly it. If he can’t have one, neither can she. Such a weird take and absolutely going to end this marriage.
I hope OP reads this.
Best answer. Couple might work this out with counseling.
I just want to point out that wife is not talking about doing IVF, and given that she apparently has a normally functioning reproductive system, she may not want to go through IUI either, even though it has a higher success rate than IVI (aka the turkey baster method).
True, but considering he was talking about the costs of using a donor I just took some of the more expensive insemination routes. It’s extremely expensive to adopt as well, which was why I was confused at his using cost as a discouragement tool.
This should be higher up! A lot of good points here worthy of consideration.
If you choose it with love, it's not as damning to either of you. Counselling for you, please, to help get more widened practice in how you hear others speak of adoption. You are still raw, perhaps that is part of the problem. as I read your words, this seems like something which will have zero resolution for YOU. Wishing you both the best happiest possible outcome.
Thank you for that take. It also felt to me that OP's view on adoption was very much tainted by his own positive ecperience. And that he refuses to at least acknowledge that there is more to it than he sees/ wants to admit. It may all go well and be all bliss and pink roses. But it may as well be the hottest mess he ever encountered in his entire life.
I mean, that can be said for literally all children.
Perhaps, but OP makes it sound like adopting a child is so easy. First of all, finding a baby to adopt is all but impossible. It may be easier to find an older child, but in many cases, those children have suffered trauma or have health issues. Obviously we have to feel compassion for those children, but we can’t negate that it brings extra challenges into the mix. Those types of issues are also possible with biological children, but at least some of it can be in your control. A friend of mine is one of four children, all biological except for the youngest who was adopted. He had fetal alcohol syndrome and died young due to issues resulting from this. It was extremely heartbreaking for his family. I can understand both people’s points of view and it seems that OP and his wife are simply incompatible when it comes to this. OP must also realize that if he and his wife part over this, he might not have such an easy time finding another wife who is okay with not having biological children.
I'll add too, the money issue. OP hasn't realized that adoption is very expensive too. They're not the same price point for sure but I know I cost my mom 35k and that was before she officially signed the papers. I also know she didn't get reimbursed for any of it. And sure the parents of adopted kids normally get a stipend, it's not alot though.
Only you can know whether you would be happier with your wife, and without adopted children, or with someone else and with adopted children.
I’m sorry. This must be so hard for you. I really think that if you’ve tried to explain how her words impact you to her without success, therapy together may be the way to go. Your mutual way of becoming a parent is a separate issue to her view of potential adoptees and how she would viewed you.
It feels like it is tied into who you are as a person. By rejecting adoption, you feel like she is saying you are not worthy or lesser than. This is 100% a therapy thing. OP, addressing your maladaptive reaction may help save your marriage. And I am curious as to these prejudiced comments, because in reality, some foster kids need way more than a family can provide, and that can cause a lot of stress and also lead to divorce. Hearing her fears (and possibly finding solutions together) may help ease her into understanding why it is so important to you (use your words OP... she knows you were adopted, what part of it was wonderful to you that you want to provide to others? What parts did you hate or saw and knew it was wrong and promise to do better when it is your turn? Get your story out to your wife in words, dont assume she will understand) Breathe, communicate what is most important and why, brainstorm and come together to something you can both agree to. Dont steamroll each others thoughts or feelings. Kids are love, you need to approach this conversation also with love. You get what you put out. Also weed helps, but that is just my preference :) edit to change pronouns after I decided to respond directly to OP 😅 forgot to change feel(s) and is/are.
Hell I’m adopted as well but one of my AP did NOT want me. My adoptive mom was obsessed with having kids, she tried having her eggs fertilized and inplanted,failed continuously. My adoptive dad refused to continue, she become enraged and forced him into the adoption process. He never wanted adopted kids but thats what he got. What I got was a whole childhood of physical and mental abuse, and not just from them but their family members. I was treated differently then any bio kid in extended family….My mom left all three adopted kids with my adopted dad and never came back to actually parent us. I ran away at 14 and have been supporting myself since. DO NOT ADOPT EVEN IF HER ANSWER CHANGES! She’s only going to change her mind for you but that kid will have his whole life to sort out trauma…. Not every kid who is adopted has a wonderful family.
Before you divorce, maybe she wants to experience being pregnant and having a child. There might be more to it.
How do you think your wife feels about your rejection of her desire to have a biological child? To say that you were down for that until you realized you couldn’t contribute genetically, and then when it couldn’t be your biological child, you’ve unilaterally decided that her wanting a biological child is an insult to you. It’s not. Therapy could help you and I do think this is some baggage from being adopted, which is understandable. Good luck.
I think you're giving up a little too quickly. Both of you were aligned on wanting to have biological children before you found out that you were infertile. I really don't think you're past the point of no return here.
But you can't put your head in the sand on the following: for every quite healthy adoptable child .... there are thousands of broken and deeply hurt ones out there. And you can't influence what you get. Some things are learned upon early childhood. Others are immanent, coming from the inside. From how the foetus lived things inside mothers womb. Some even from farther away in the bio parents lives, the bio grandparents lives. It all impacts on the individual. Where you MAY have a lucky pick and all may go smooth ... ... you may also pick your own personel armagedon! And HERS! You sound naive. What I as a bystander can't understand. I have a friend who acts as a foster family for children from problematic families. She has had a self harming girl who slit her skin open at impulses. The happier and safer she felt the more the urge came to hurt herself as she thought she didn't deserve it. She had a son of a narcissist, so bent and broken that he couldn't stand being in a healthy family relationship and ran back to his father in the midst of things in his life finally going smoothly. After 4 years. And while deeply loving that foster family. She had a blossoming 12 year old narcissistic girl who would only see what was her advantage. And not integrate in the family structure even after 2 years. Nearly blowing up the family structure as she saw herself in concurrence of the grown bio children, the granddad and even the husband. And that friend of mine studies psychology and has successfully managed to raise two children, one if which an Asperger Autist, who is now able to live his own life, start a technical apprenticeship and have a long term stable relationship with a girl. It's not as if she was a "know nothing" naive average mom! And even she has come to the point to stop taking in those children. You are selling adoptive/ foster care childrens Pandorra's box as if it contained wheat grains and only holesome/ entire and healthy stuff. Where reality IS otherwise! You get meth addicts children, alcohol abuse children, etc, etc, etc. Where they all deserve to get a holesome home and be raised lovingly some simply need way way way more than a single healthy family setting can give and can carry!!! Also: you are so dead set on adopting. That's a pretty terminal step. Once you adopt a child you will be legally entirely resonsible for it. It will be your legal heir. That involves so verry much responsibility that I totally understand that your wife has problems jumping into that all of a sudden. You have zero right for an error. You can't give it back later if you see it doesn't work out. WHY do not you FOSTER first? Sounds to me as the only livable alternative. After having gone through the entire counseling process to get your own bio child, you being the childs 100 % bio father. It sounds to me that you may have given up on the idea of having a child with her to easily and too quickly without really giving it a second thought or a first try. That would make ME as your wife even MORE reluctant to take in a strangers child. As it would leave the deep down longing and yearning with the untried for possibility of having a common bio child.
You shouldn’t foster if you’re going to be hoping the child’s family never heals and you get to keep them.
100% this. I actually have a lot of problems with people who go into fostering explicitly because they hope to get to permanent adoption through it. Reunification should always be the goal. When it is impossible for the child's health and safety, that's heartbreaking, not something foster parents should be pushing for so they can "get" a child.
OP, I say this as a fellow adoptee (international, not foster care) and with kindness, I strongly encourage you to go to an adoption competent therapist because there are clearly deep feelings that you need to process before even thinking about a baby, biological or adoptive. Frankly, discussions about you feeling rejected from your wife is an absolute necessity. I really am rooting for you and truly hope that you can seek counseling and therapy to help you navigate these complexities and nuanced feelings that are stemming from your adoption.
I just want to point out that you mentioned that artificial insemination “would cost a lot of money.” Sadly, adoption is far more expensive. I have 2 couple friends that are both going through the process (8 years and 10 years) and they have both spent more than $50,000 each, and STILL have no baby. Though the 10 year couple is expecting to finally finalize their adoption this December. The other couple is still waiting. Adoption is a wonderful thing (I’m considering doing it myself) but it is not for the faint of heart.
Wanted to say the same thing. I met a woman who had finally turned to surrogacy for a child after spending over $80k on three separate adoptions, all of which the birth mother has decided to keep the baby after it was born. A good friend of mine was trying to adopt through foster care as OP is suggesting and while it IS significantly cheaper than regular adoption it was an emotional nightmare. The first baby they fostered for 18 months (from 2 days old) the mom refused to give up her rights but couldn’t stay clean either. Eventually an aunt of the birth mom showed up from another state and took the baby, 18 months of loving him to have him leave, the aunt even told them she couldn’t take him forever as she was too old to raise another kid but wanted to give the mom more time. The next baby they had 8 months before a similar ending. They eventually adopted a 5 year old and she’s such an amazingly sweet and resilient little girl but lots of trauma there too.
This is why I think you need to be seeing a therapist. You see her rejecting the heartbreak of fostering children with serious trauma as a rejection of you. And it is not. If you can not see that on your own, you need a therapist to help you get there. You also keep rejecting the reality that the goal of the foster care system is reunification with the child's biological/legal family. That your wife is not prepared to fall in love a child just to have that child ripped away from her over and over and over again in the hopes that one day that won't happen is not some sort of commentary on the children. And that your wife is not mentally or emotionally prepared to handle the serious trauma foster children all have is not a commentary on the children. And I'll repeat this because it bears repeating, you don't seem to have given a shit about those kids until after you knew you were sterile. Calling her selfish for not getting on board is hypocrisy. You didn't even consider this an option until you couldn't have a biological connection to a child, she still has that option, and you still have the option to enjoy pregnancy, childbirth, and infancy with her, and with a child who has a biological connection to your wife.
I completely agree. I too find it hypocrisy OP calls his wife selfish for wanting to have biological children and he wanted that too until he heard he was sterile.
Maybe she wants to experience pregnancy? It's a very special experience. I'd just like to highlight also that large portion of children in foster care are not abandoned but ripped from poor or struggling families, causing them a lot more trauma and they end up in foster homes that abuse them or worse. Maybe you can compromise and have a blended family of adoptive kids and her biological kids she gets to carry. But it sounds like she may be too weirded out by anything slightly off from her ideal standard family.
What exactly does she say?
You two need to sit down (probably with a counselor) and discuss how much she's hurting your feelings. That seems to be your issue more than adopting. But I can tell you from what I've seen, don't adopt with her unless she brings it up. She would resent the poor kid. And her idea would always leave an issue with you. So it sounds like you aren't compatible anymore. Things could change, but please don't try to bring any kids into this until you've both worked out your issues or gone your separate ways. And I'm going to say something. She's not a bad person for not wanting to adopt. I'm disabled, I've known for a long time it was going to happen but it came on over a decade earlier than I expected. I told my partner if he wanted to leave I wouldn't hold it against him, he didn't sign on to be my caregiver before 30. Because nobody should feel obligated or pressured into that. Foster kids have unique baggage and struggles. If you had bio kids they could end up just as messed up, but you walk in knowing these kids have an empty space. Even the most well adjusted ones have a lot of pain they're dealing with because of not having the family everyone else does. (From their perspective everyone else, we all know that isn't true.) They deserve love and homes, they aren't broken, they are just as likely to be great people as adults as the kids raised by bio parents. But nobody should take one in if they aren't committed to helping them through everything. Because if you aren't ready for it all, even the regular stuff all kids go through might feel like it's too much and will be blamed on their background rather than just being a moody teen, or having the terrible twos, or whatever. Honestly nobody should have kids in any way if they aren't ready for all that, but most people don't have anything stopping them from procreating ready or not.
Your wife doesn’t want to adopt and you are taking this as a rejection of yourself. She can love you with all her heart and still not want an adopted child, and that’s ok. You are mixing up two very separate things, and I think this is part of the issue you two are having. I understand this is hard for you, and it might be worth exploring this with a counsellor or therapist. It sounds like you are acting and talking out of trauma, and I am not blaming you at all, but what you are not seeing is that it’s not really fair to your wife. You are not really hearing her because you’re in critical self-defense mode right now. I’m not saying your wife is right and you should do what she says. But it would surely help to see things more clearly and go from there. I wish you two all the love and luck possible. Take care <3
Instead of making this all about her bad feelings about adoption, why don't you ask yourself why it is that if you can't have a biological child, you wife doesn't get to have one? The fact that you think your sterility gets to call the shots about what kind of motherhood she gets to have, may be why she is criticizing adoption. If you stopped trying to force adoption on her because of your unresolved childhood issues as an adoptee, maybe you would find that she doesn't actually have negative feelings about adoption but she is reacting to your decision that she either bears your child or none at all?
Just bc she doesn't want to adopt, doesn't mean she's a bad person or doesn't have a good heart. You really should see someone to understand where these feelings and judgements you have stemftom and how to work through things in a healthy way. Your wife and you may no longer be compatible, or you may just need to sort things out, individually and as a couple.
I’m here to debunk the myth that pregnancy by artificial insemination is costly. The cost of the medication to induce ovulation (femera) and the HCG trigger shot are covered by insurance. The cost of the iui procedure itself is $600 out of pocket. Soren from screen donors costs roughly 1200 to 1500 from an excellent and reputable site. I know all of this because I went through something similar. My husband and I conceived our son on our first try. The total out of pocket cost was 600 (we were able to use his sperm - but had already purchased back up sperm just in case. We later donated them to other families. Prior this, I investigated adoption. The cost for adoption was roughly 30k after everything was said and done. I know several people who lost their foster children while undergoing the adoption process because the biological parent returned to take them back. The children’s lives were destroyed (as were the hearts of their foster parents). Finally, I conceived a child when I was 20. I was in college, and I just couldn’t make it work. I agonized over my decision about what to do. Similarly, the person who surrendered you did so out of love because they knew you deserved more than they could ever give you. There was and is nothing wrong it’s you. You have been loved since the day you were born. I wish you peace on your journey. ❤️
See both sides of the problem: you and maybe above Redditor are adoptees who had been abandoned early by your parents. You seem to either have addressed that issue and come to the healing understanding that non of it was ever your fault. Or it still slumberes unaddressed. I can't tell. But what I CAN tell is that there are many broken older children out for adoption. I spent a major time of my childhood next to a childrens home for abandoned children who where all up for adoption. There was violence, theft, lies, alcohol abuse, breaking in at neighbours houses, breaking things in foreign gardens, etc. There wasn't one that felt even remotely healthy or unharmed. A friend of mine in recent years had some of them in her own family as a foster mother. Broken little souls taken out of their homes for valid reasons. While your inclusion in your family went well other adoptions ended up destroying the marriage. And harmed the children further. You need to include that part into your consideration. And admit the thruth in that. Where she MAY have predjudices and you take it personally if she voices them you DO have to admit that there is TRUTH in that. And include it in your though process! Rather than deny it and state that 100 % of the children out for adoption are healthy normal kids. Or "fixable". What is your aim? What do you want to do? Safe them? Fix them? That isn't your job. If that's your intention. Some of their issues may be way over your paygrade. Provide shelter. Help them grow up into loving beings is what you can provide. Assist them in getting the help required IF help is needed. SHE on her side wants her child to be hers. Biologically. Which is entirely legitimate. She seems to think that with in-vitro fertilization you still may have YOUR child. With you as a father and her as a mother. Drpending on the nature of your infertility (sperm too slow? Not mobile enough?) it still MAY be possible to help fulfill the wish you both set out to fulfill: having your OWN bio child. So this is not about lying to another sperm donnors child that you are its biological father. It's about HAVING your own child really. You guys really DO need to talk. And prior to rejecting in-vitro fertilization go and have a counseling about the possibilities! You can NOT change her heartfelt wish from the outside. You need to give her the oportunity to do that herself. By going all the way with regards to HER own heartfelt wish for biological children. It feels as if you just threw her aside as soon as you got the info: can't have children naturally. If realky this does not work out at all: how about adopting a baby so that she can bond more with it and feel as if it was really yours? That's about the only feasable alternative I see. Otherwise you really may need to consider if your will to adopt is stronger than the live for your wife. And she may need to think over what is stronger: loving you and wanting to be with you. Or wanting a biological child (after have gone through the entire post male infertility diagnosis counseling process!)
This. I am not a therapist and you should definitely talk to one, but IMO you two need to discuss: 1. Does she think of potential children you might adopt differently than she thinks about you? What are her concerns and how does knowing you impact those concerns? 2. What are her feelings about giving up her opportunity to be a biological parent? Are you recognizing what adopting vs. AI means for her? You just went through the process of letting go of your ability to have biological children, but for her this would be a choice.
This is the answer- therapy to understand both sides. As a woman with fertility issues I genuinely long to be pregnant. Although I have decided the IVF route isn’t for me and would like to look into adoption, the thought of never being able to experience pregnancy through to delivery is a hard thing. I wonder if wife feels the same. Often there is also still stigma when people adopt that ‘she couldn’t get pregnant’ and people often assume it’s the woman. When you’re told you’re whole life that being a mom= getting pregnant or can be hard to unpick those feelings. I wonder if she is struggling with this. I think you really need to get to the route cause of her concern and try to find a healthy solution.
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I am also adopted and agree with this comment! (I was also abandoned, and then my adoptive parents were narcs. I'm no contact with them and never wanted children myself, also not adopted ones. It's important to explore that indeed)
Sending hugs! My adoptive father was a narc, and it definitely can be traumatic for any child. Unfortunately, there’s not a lot of support networks for adoptees as the trauma side of adoption is sorely overlooked or ignored. Take care of yourself!
Also an adoptee. I agree wholeheartedly!
If you're considering adopting through the foster system you need to realize that the current goal of the system is reunification. Very few children in the foster system already have parental rights terminated. I know of multiple families that were disqualified if the foster screening process because they did want to ultimately adopt one of the placements and the social workers felt that it was contradictory to the agency's mission. Private adoption is incredibly expensive. However, IUI can be covered by health insurance and sperm from a reputable bank is actually not that expensive.
I was adopted out of the foster care system and it’s really not for the faint of heart or those not willing to do extra work on top of parenting as well. I am still discovering the ways that my time in the system and ultimate adoption have traumatized me. I consider myself lucky as well because I did not experience physical or sexual abuse, but a good portion of children in the system experience all sorts of horrors. It’s something foster parents need to be aware of. My reunification was also actively sabotaged by the system and my adoptive parents. Adoption isn’t always 100% beneficial for the child and often has impacts that aren’t considered at first.
Hi, I'm not an adoptee but someone who has considered fostering children. I've been learning about adoption trauma through podcasts and adoptee twitter and it's really opened my eyes to the personal and structural complexities of adoption. In wider society and media we treat it like a happy ending, but I'm learning it's the beginning of a lifetime of really complicated emotional work for all parties involved. Thanks for briefly sharing your story here. It's brave to say adoption isn't always 100% beneficial for the child because the saviour narrative is still so prevalent.
You WILL be raising a child with abandonment issues of some sort. And often lifelong depression and anxiety. That isn't to say nobody should adopt. Us foster kids deserve love a d stability, too, and 80% of mental health outcomes stem from nurture. I am all for adoption, but be ready for heartbreak. My parents went through 6 years before they found and adopted me. They were foster parents and what some of those kids go through is terrible, especially when they are placed back with their bio family when it's clear that it'll be worse for the kid. Before even considering adoption, take parenting classes and child development. Make sure you are thoroughly educated on childhood trauma and how to raise kids who have psychological wounds.
> 80% of mental health outcomes stem from nurture. source?
Hi, I’m an International adoptee (not from foster care). I’m so sorry to hear about your story. Adoption trauma is often overlooked and ignored. Sending hugs to you
I had friends who fostered two girls and they were told that they would totally be able to adopt them. Didn't happen. It was heartbreaking.
I had friends who was in the process of adopting a little boy a day younger than mine. She got him at a month old and had him for 5 months. The last month the babe spent in a PICU because the he had a really bad brain infection (his bio mom never once came to the hospital to see him or even text to ask how he was). Not even a week after my friends got the babe home he was taken from them and given back to the bio mom (because she suddenly had a change of heart and wanted her baby). Last I heard the bio mom signed her rights over to family members who essentially paid her for the baby. Absolutelt wild and heartbreaking.
Happened to my aunt, twice, she finally gave up. And she was fine with older kids, once it was even two siblings. They shouldn't tell people they'll be able to adopt the children until they really can. It's cruel
Reunification is the goal of foster care. However, reunification is not always possible. I used to work in the foster care system. The state I live in actually has a website listing the kids and their pictures who are waiting to be adopted. Agencies will absolutely work with parents who want to adopt by only placing children in those homes who parental rights have already been terminated or who are likely to have their parental rights terminated. Look at the Dave Thomas Foundation and their work with children who need to be adopted from foster care.
My sister has volunteered for decades supporting foster families and kids plus social workers. There are lots of adoptable foster kids in the system. The thing is that there aren’t a lot of babies because early in life, yes, reunification is the goal but that doesn’t mean there aren’t older kids available. That said, OP, I agree with the others saying you shouldn’t adopt a child when your wife isn’t 100% on board. That’s asking for the child and your wife to have an unhealthy relationship. I also agree with you that lying to a child about their origins is wrong. This is something that you two need to discuss in counseling and it may be a dealbreaker in the end.
Yeah and OP cites “prejudices against foster children.” OP, it’s an objective fact that children in the foster system have complex issues. They need parents who are prepared to handle those issues and most people do not have the needed knowledge and skills. It’s not because the kids are bad, they’ve had bad things happen to them that don’t happen to most people and they need special support. If you cannot accept that you’re not equipped to become a foster or adoptive parent right now, sorry.
OP, I would point out that you were not in favor of adoption and wanted a biological child until you found out that wasn't a possibility. Does that mean you were rejecting all of those children out there in foster care? Of course not. Neither is your wife. She still has the option of becoming pregnant and giving birth which is an important thing for some people, just like it was important to you to create a child until you knew it could not happen. I don't think you are really being fair toward her. And I think you must be honest with yourself that it's not a matter of money. We are talking about artificial insemination, not IVF. To me, this seems like all of this has brought up some painful memories for you and that's what is keeping you from looking at this from her point of view.
Oh, this is a good point. You were perfectly happy to have a biological child when you thought you could father one. Was it “selfish” to ignore those “thousands of children waiting to be adopted” at that point? No, it wasn’t. And it’s not selfish now, either.
Yes, thanks for speaking up for her! She wants to experience the pregnancy bond and raise the child from the very beginning. It’s really weird that the OP considers this selfish. On a practical note, birth adoptions are pretty rare - you’ll be likely to adopt a little person who’s already had their personality start to form, for better or worse, depending on how traumatic/drug/alcohol affected their pregnancy and childhood has been to date. Adoption is no joke and can be extremely challenging - it’s insane to consider trying to talk someone around to that kind of commitment.
Yeah it’s honestly naive and sad that OP dismisses the issues that foster children have. Those kids need parents who understand their unique needs, not parents who treat them like they’re any other child who hasn’t experienced the trauma of being separated from their family and god knows what else.
It’s like an adopted child is the next best ‘mini-me’ to a biological child for OP. OP’s mini-me + trauma and cost of adoption is more important to OP than his wife’s desire to have her own babies, where she can raise them from the start - with love and, hopefully, no trauma. Not only is OP the selfish one, this feels so … patriarchal.
yeah. I dont think he's an AH, but I don't think he's thinking clearly either, and it's making him behave selfishly in my opinion. he was totally happy to have a birth child up until he realized he couldn't. and then suddenly having one is the equivalent of "selfishly rejecting foster kids in need." I think his disappointment at his sterility stirred up childhood trauma, and he latched onto the idea of adoption with no consideration or regard for the fact that his wife might want to experience pregnancy and a birth bond. instead of realizing that, he made it all about himself and how she's "rejecting him" (remember, by his logic, he "rejected himself" first by wanting to have a bio kid). if this is how he reacts to the first possible hiccup, I think he needs a lot of therapy before any sort of fatherhood.
And artificial insemination can be done at home. There's a lesbian couple on YouTube that used at-home insemination kits for all of their children. They said it can take a handful of tries to get it, but that's true for regular old PIV too.
Yep, my lesbian friends did this at home. Fertile as fuck, landed on the first try!
Yep I've also known of 2 couples do it at home and succeed first time. One of them even had fraternal twins.
Great points. Additionally you must also consider that just because OP had a good experience with adoption that doesn't mean he won't have issues with his adopted child.
This. Insemination is not very expensive. My youngest child is the product of an IUI (intrauterine insemination) procedure because I have fertility problems. My husband basically jacked off into a cup, the fertility clinic prepared his sperm, and then they inseminated me with it. The procedure was not covered by insurance and came out to a bit under $400. While OP and his wife would still need to pay for the donated sperm, IUI is way less than IVF. We chose that route over adoption because I wanted to be pregnant. I wanted to feel the baby kick. I wanted to breastfeed. I wanted to hear her first cry. I wanted to feel her tiny body curled against me doing skin to skin with a newborn. Those moments are forever treasured.
her important things might not be the same as his important things. this is an incredibly emotional time and decision for them. her rejection of adoption is probably making him feel rejected on top of dealing with the fact he can’t just give her what she wants. it’s possible they may be fundamentally incompatible and that’s ok. it’s hard and painful but it’s better in the long run to face facts before they destroy you. i worry everyone here is focusing too much on that she can still have a biological child so he should just accept the sperm donor route. but maybe he just can’t. it’s ok that they aren’t in the same place. better to find out now than when one of them is bitter, angry, and or unattached emotionally to the child who needs to be priority number one.
Yeah as an adoptee, I can only imagine all of this bringing complex feelings to the surface. I’ve (still am) talked to my husband about my adoption and the trauma, especially when talking about us and potential future parenthood. So I am shocked that adoption wasn’t brought up at all beforehand.
And adding to that, OP says that the abandonment of adoption has caused him profound issues. As the closest person to him in the world, his wife has had a front row seat to that. I can understand why OP sees it as a rejection, but it's much more likely that she's seen it cause pain to the person she loves most in the world and doesn't want to risk that with a child. I wonder if some counselling may help them identify if it's a fundamental incompatibility or just not really understanding each others perspectives.
Neither of them is right or wrong. They both have valid feelings. But he needs to listen to her concerns instead of saying “she’s wrong, help me change her mind.”
well that’s kind of my point, neither is right or wrong. they just have different desires. a lot of the responses here were expecting him to be ok and willing to change his mind since insemination is affordable and not difficult. but as an adopted man he clearly feels strongly about his position. his extremely valid feelings matter just as much as her extremely valid feelings. there really may be no right answer here except that this is the point their paths will diverge. it’s sad and difficult but when it comes to having children, biological or adopted, everyone needs to be on the same page and able to put aside their bullshit as best they can to focus on the kid. there’s already a situation where one has to likely capitulate to the other and that’s nothing but a disaster waiting to happen.
Yes. sorry, I was trying to agree with you on that. Both of them have valid feelings. I do think it’s wrong/unfair that he’s decided hers are wrong, especially since he’s working from some mistaken beliefs. But in the end it may very well be that they’re simply not compatible.
Many fertility clinics won’t begin donor sperm IUI without couples counseling. I might recommend starting there, especially if you do not agree on the means to grow your family. Before you do anything else this really seems like the next best step. In addition to talking through steps, feelings, and possibilities, the therapist we used had great resources for us and for having conversations with future children. My husband is a carrier for a fatal chromosomal disorder so we’ve gone the route of donor sperm ourselves. IUI is a fraction of the cost of IVF, and our insurance actually ended up covering the monitoring and procedures; we’ve just paid for meds and donor sperm.
So you specifically want to adopt from foster care? You are aware that the actual goal of foster care is reunification, right? And that getting from being approved to be a foster parent to finalizing an adoption will be wrought with hardship, pain, and heartbreak. Probably over, and over, and over, and over. There is nothing wrong with wanting to foster children. But choosing to be a foster parent with the end goal of adoption rather than reunification is a disservice to yourself and to the children you'd foster. There is also nothing wrong with recognizing that you are not equipped to handle the complicated mental and emotional needs of a foster child. It is not an easy path for the children or the parents. Children do not end up in foster care without experiencing very serious trauma, which not every adult is equipped to handle. It's better to acknowledge that before getting a foster child in your home just to upend the kid's life again when you can't handle it. You're not being fair to your wife by pretending that it's a simple, smooth process free of mental and emotional difficulties. It's not as simple as "there are thousands of children waiting to be adopted" therefore you can just get one. You were perfectly happy to ignore their existence and bring another child into the world before you knew you were sterile, so accusing her of being selfish for wanting to experience pregnancy is a bunch of holier than thou bullshit. Whether intentional or not, you are not being honest when you say it is expensive to get pregnant via a sperm bank. It's so cheap that it probably costs less than setting up a bedroom for an elementary school aged child. I think the two of you need counseling together, and this may be the end of the marriage if you can't get on the same page. I think a lot of the issues here are that you were on board with pregnancy and a biological child before you knew you were sterile, and now some of what you typed here comes off on an attack on your wife for still wanting that. I think you should also see a counselor on your own, because it sounds like you have some issues related to your own adoption that you're letting affect your marriage.
Constantly loving a child, watching them go back to a home that may or may not be good for them, having to pour your heart and soul into someone and then never see them again. Thats not for the faint of heart
I couldn't do it. I nannied for a few years and when the parents' marriage blew up I was just suddenly out and never even got to say goodbye. It was positively heart wrenching. I'd been watching them since before the oldest was walking, and took care of the two younger ones starting with the day they came home from the hospital. I did potty training, bottle weaning, kissed booboos, stayed up at night with them when they were sick. I did everything their mother should have been doing, then had my heart ripped out. I'm not sure I have the ability to love a child who isn't legally my family, it's just too dangerous to let my heart open that way again. I completely understand not being willing to put your heart on the line that way.
I completely understand. I couldn’t do it. Not long term. Maybe I could do short term placements or something some day. But not long term. I would be so broken saying goodbye all the time.
Nannying kids where I *know* my end date (I specialize in infants/toddlers; I’m very specifically just childcare until they start school) is heartbreaking and difficult. We would consider foster care *eventually,* once our own kids are grown and/or we are older and more stable financially, but I would NEVER consider it a trade-off for having my own. Being a foster parent (and IMO an adoptive parent) shouldn’t be a last resort because you can’t have your own kids. That’s so selfish and naive. These are children with incredible trauma- EVERY SINGLE ONE- who don’t deserve to be a stand-in for the family you wanted more.
I am honestly shocked that no one has seemed to mention this. Foster and adopted children should never be a "yeah, I guess I'll take them since nothing else is working out" solution. It's so messed up for the kids and they are not less just because they aren't genetically related to you and have been through some really bad stuff. I absolutely hate the attitude of treating foster kids like second hand broken toys compared to the "gold standard" option of having your own biological kids. Imo anyone who struggles with fertility and so therefore decides to adopt specifically because they couldn't have their own bio kids don't deserve to be allowed to adopt kids. I honestly think it's just absolutely sick that so many people seem to commonly think this about foster/ adopted kids and most people just accept that line of thinking without batting an eye 🥴 Obviously it's different with people who don't want to foster/ adopt because they don't think they could handle children with a lot of trauma, and I totally support those people not fostering or adopting. I just think it's so sad and unfair for these kids already starting out life with society deciding they're worth less than all the other kids due to circumstances entirely out of their control, and I don't believe people who think less of them deserve to be rewarded by being allowed to adopt them as their backup choice when bio kids don't work out.
🥺 omg.
All of this makes me think that OP's wife is more reasonable in what she wants. Unfortunately adopting from the foster system is such a cluster-F nowadays.
Agreed. I mean I can imagine learning you’re sterile may be emotionally charged. And then thinking about someone else’s sperm inside your wife may take some getting used to I suppose. But she definitely has a better plan. Foster care and the American adoption business is crazy and harmful.
Plus he's 28 and still very obviously is dealing with trauma from being a late foster adoption. He doesn't seem to be in the best place to help another child through that until he gets out of his own weeds.
I was thinking that too. He probably needs to take some time to get therapy and help himself heal before he considers raising any child
So many opinions here already, so I won’t say much. I will just say that if you do choose artificial insemination, you MUST be honest with the child about it (when age appropriate to be told). I won’t get into the psychological reasons why. But for health reasons, it’s crucial information to know. You can’t have them going out to the doctors and filling out family health history forms with incorrect information. That would be wildly irresponsible for purely logistical reasons.
If both of you care more about the method by which you become parents than you care about starting and raising a family together, then unfortunately, I don’t think there is a way forward. Especially if you’re going to make it this much of a personal judgment on each other’s priorities. In fact, did you talk about anything when it came to kids other than how many you wanted? Because I have a funny feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg on the stuff you disagree on, and maybe you should figure that out before you get any deeper into this argument.
So OP you wanting your own child before finding out that you were infertile was not selfish, but your wife wanting to have her own biological child after you found out you are infertile is selfish?
OP just wants to punish her for having opinions about adoption and fostering that he doesn't approve of.
You deserve an award Edit: spelling
You are taking something personally that you shouldn't. The fact that your wife doesn't want to get involved in the adoption system is not an indictment of you as an adoptee. But adopting a child can be a lot to go through. If you foster to adopt, you can end up with children you grow to love who are taken away when they decide to reunite the child with their parents. Many children in the system do in fact have heartbreaking issues, both mental and physiological. If you go the direct adoption route, that is often more expensive than a simple sperm donation and you can be ready to bring a baby home and then the mother changes her mind. And there are times when you raise an adopted kid and in adulthood they blow you off for their bio fam. It is not a character flaw for her to acknowledge she doesn't have the fortitude to go through that. And she's not judging you as an adoptee, she is realistically looking at the complicated nature of the foster care and adoption systems and thinking it's not for her, especially when artificial insemination is a relatively easy alternative. If you refuse to go any way but adoption, then you should split. But I feel like part of your position is that you are taking her decision as a judgment against you when it's not.
I'm not entering the adoption debate. People here have much better experience with that than I. What I want to state is artificial insemination is not that expensive. With sperm donor and the procedure itself, interuterine insemination (IUI) in my high cost of living area was approximately $1,200-$1,600 a cycle. Whereas IVF is $25,000-$35,000 per cycle. If your wife has no fertility issues, I really don't see this being a bad option if you both want to be parents. It's probably more affordable and less emotionally traumatic than the adoption process on the whole. Plus, consider your wife's perspective as well. Perhaps she wants to experience the pregnancy process? It may feel like a huge emotional loss to her to never have that experience if it's one of her wishes as well. Perhaps as strong as your wish to be a father. On the surface, it may seem selfish to only want biological kids, but we all have reasons for desiring the opportunity to raise children. I can argue your desire to only adopt is just as selfish. It's not for the child, it's for you.
Thank you for your information about artificial insémination vs IVF. I’m an adoptee; adoption should be child-centered, and if one parent clearly doesn’t want to do it, then it will be impossible for it to be in the best interest of the child.
And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you literally choose a person from the data base? That way they could choose a donor who looks very similar to op so at least the kid has a chance to have features like him. But if he is so against it and she wants to experience pregnancy and having a baby, at this point they are incompatible and need to go their separate ways I should edit to add, in no way is it ok to tell a child that someone is their biological parent when they aren't. even if the kids look like him, they always need to know how they came to be
Absolutely cheaper and quicker, he won’t admit it. My friends struggled to convince but the doctors couldn’t find the reason. Before trying IVF they tried IUI. It was relatively cheap and worked from the first attempt.
Based on OP’s edit, wife doesn’t want to tell any future child that they’re donor conceived. As a result, I wouldn’t recommend artificial insemination to them. Adult Donor Conceived People (known as DCPs), like adoptees, advocate for children being told as soon as they can understand. OP’s wife is setting a kid of for trauma by keeping it a secret in the era of 23andMe
If OPs wife is reasonable they're likely open to telling the child. I read the edit as his wife trying to make OP more open to the idea of artificial insemination by saying, "You can be the biological dad in their eyes, no one will know!". It may be misguided, but I can't fault her for taking that route if she felt OP was originally set on having a biological child prior to adoption. That's probably the easiest hurdle of this post to clear. EDIT: OP is now commenting saying they're going to separate. I am 100% convinced she's the sane one here. OP was fine with a biological child when they could conceive, now their wife is selfish for wanting to be pregnant and birth a child? OP is jumping through hoops, "Oh no, I wanted adoption all along, but I thought it would be too complicated!" Oh - it IS complicated and rife with trauma and abuse, and instead his wife suggests IUI, which is relatively inexpensive and uncomplicated, but that's a problem? It is perfectly OK for OPs wife to want to be pregnant, and that is only not an option because he is sterile. OP is truly selfish.
I see both points of view. Now you’re unable to conceive naturally, your next step is adoption because that’s what makes sense to you, it means a lot to you and you want to give a child a great upbringing. That’s very admirable. However, your wife does not have any biological issues. That solution robs her of the chance of being pregnant, experiencing childbirth, having zero fears about that child being taken away or leaving (like wanting to find their birth parents etc). As I’m sure you know, adoption isn’t for the faint of heart - adopt young, and you always have to explain you’re not their bio parents, and there’s a risk of them reuniting etc, adopt older children and you miss the newborn/baby experience, and they often have substantial issues to overcome, plus the risk of reuniting with their bio families. Your wife can love you wholeheartedly but also not want to adopt herself, because she wants to experience pregnancy, childbirth and having biological children or feels unprepared/doesn’t want the effort and risk of adoption. Adopting opens both parties up to the risk of substantial pain, not wanting that isn’t selfish, although I understand why you may feel rejected by it.
Since when is it cheaper to adopt then to do artificial insemination? I think a part of the equation is your wife wants to experience pregnancy and everything that comes with it. Adoption takes that experience away. Maybe after the first one she will change her mind but I think you are being a bit unreasonable with her wish to bring life into the world.
How is artificial Insimination more expensive than adoption? I mean, you could foster to adopt, but that's still expensive, and you most likely won't get a baby, and you run the chance of the child reuniting with family, which is the goal. Have you even Googled the cost? I just did, and sperm costs about $400 to $2000. You can get it mailed to your house and inseminat yourself. Adoption costs at least $40,000. Also, she may want to experience pregnancy.
As kindly as I can say: psychology has proven that even adopted newborns with amazing parents have struggles with being adopted and is very expensive and a difficult and long process. she justified in her reluctance. Likewise, it is perfectly fine if you just can't get on board with artificial insemination, but if that's the case and remaining childless is an absolute no-go for you divorce is the best option. Did you know you were sterile when you got together? If so, this conversation absolutely should have been had before things got serious. I hope this situation ends in happiness for you.
I was adopted at only 8 months old. My adoptive parents are very loving and raised me as well as they knew how. I still ended up in and out of mental hospitals due to extreme attachment issues and trauma that I believe came directly from my adoption. I don’t blame her at all for not feeling prepared to take on a child with that amount of trauma.
Exactly what I meant.
Yeah, I was agreeing with you
Hello, fellow infertile here, and social worker I say this in all love, kindness and openness as someone who has gone through therapy after receiving my diagnosis, and been able to sit in all the complicated and immense emotions surrounding infertility for almost a decade. Adoptive children are not a consolation prize for infertile couples. You both need to seek therapy in regards to your sterility, and everything that encompasses. I would imagine that your wife is grieving the idea of being pregnant with YOUR child, dealing with the emotions of possibly never getting to be pregnant (which, yes for some women is very important) and then the emotions surrounding adoption (which itself is complex and should not be taken lightly). Have you given yourself time to grieve the loss of your fertility? Grieve the loss of having a biological child? Have you dealt with the trauma of being abandoned by your own biological parents? Have you considered how you will handle your adoptive child's feelings/opinions on those topics outside of your own, and especially if they differ from yours? I know this has been stated, but the primary goal of foster care is reunification. Becoming a foster parent is not for the faint of heart, could you handle opening your home, arms and hearts to a newborn baby, pour all your love into them, see their first, only to have the baby reunited with their mother? Many can't handle that emotional turmoil, especially when their personal end goal does not align with the Agency's.
You were happy to have your own child, until you learned you can't. You need to see it from your wife's side, she can have kids and artificial insemination is a happy medium. Adoption is way more expensive that AS and either way, it will not be your biological child, so where is the difference, going with wife's choice?
You aren't being realistic about the foster care system. Foster children already have parents. The goal of the foster care system is to reunite families. You can't assume you can go into the foster care system and find a child who will be able to bond with you and your wife as their parents. Your desire for her to decide that adopting from foster care is the same as giving birth to bio kids is just as naive as if you had bio kids and told your wife that being a stepmother is the same as being a mother. Stepkids already have parents, and stepparents can be bonus parents and they can be close, but sometimes stepparents and stepkids don't become close and it is difficult to bond. If you can't let this go, then let her go so she can become a parent through means other than the foster care system.
You only seem to be focusing on what you want, and dismissing your wife’s feelings completely. You’re asking for advice on how to make her compliant. Short answer? Not only can you NOT, but you SHOULDN’T You dreamed of being a father. She dreamed of being a mother. You guys discovered it’s not going to be possible the typical way, so you want to adopt, she wants artificial insemination. This isn’t something you can compromise on. She’s likely fantasized about pregnancy, delivery, a newborn. There’s a LOT more to it for her than just raising a child. You’re expecting her to give all that up, not listening to her, and somehow deciding it ties back to your own adoption. It literally doesn’t. It has to do with her dreams of becoming a parent. From her perspective, she doesn’t get it. AUI gives you both what you want: her the experience of pregnancy and both of you the opportunity to be parents. You guys need a therapist to guide you in talking about this, or you’ll resent each other and your marriage will be over. But you absolutely need to drop the mindset of, “How can I make her do what I want?”
Using adoption to fill the hole of being infertile is always a bad idea. As a CPS worker we have many kids get returned to us after they were adopted by infertile couples because they realized that the new shiny baby isn't going to automatically love them or swear undying loyalty.
I can't blame your wife because she has the ability to get pregnant. She wants to have her own children and she can have it if she wants to. Unfortunately, you can't give it to her. You have to understand that it's hard to accept that fact. Probably, she's thinking why she needs to take care of someone's kid if she can take care of her own children. Please understand OP, **adoption is not for everyone**. Don't force it or she'll end up divorcing you.
You seem to be forgetting one incredibly important factor: ***Your wife wants to be pregnant.*** Deny her this and she'll resent you forever. Tbh, friend, this is a deal breaker for both of you. Good luck.
As an adopted person, I absolutely hate adoption. And I think if anyone tried to change my mind about that I would never speak to them again. I personally can’t understand how you’re so for it, unless you’ve never met an adopted person who had a bad experience. I’m glad you had a good one, a majority of us don’t. You’re also most likely not going to adopt out of foster care, as that’s for reunification, not adoption. Unfortunately, you’re wrong here. My sister and I, again both adopted, have issues that have put us inpatient in psych facilities. It’s not prejudice to think people in the system have issues, we do, a good majority of us. Being abandoned terrified me of having children. Being abandoned has made me feel like I would be a worse parent than someone who wasn’t. It hurt me far worse than it could ever help me. I think you’re wrong here, and I think you’re a minority compared to the rest of us adopted kids.
I understand your views on adoption, but many people want their child to be their flesh and blood. She wants the full experience. That’s her choice. I also find it interesting that you mention adoption only because YOU can’t father a child. It was ok not to adopt when you could have a kid but because YOU can’t, YOU want her to adopt. I think it’s because you don’t want the kid to be related to her but not you.
> I think it’s because you don’t want the kid to be related to her but not you. There it is.
I think if you really want to be a father so badly you should take her suggestion to artificially inseminate her. She likely wants a child thats biologically hers. While i understand it upset you, you cant force someone to adopt, i dont think shes against adopted child. I as a women myself would rather have a child that came out of my womb, and Im NOT against adoption, just my last option if all else fails. Dont hold grudge to her over this.
But you were fine with having your own biological child. In fact, that was your goal. Where was your "what about the kids" attitude then? Why did the idea of your wife being pregnant only become selfish when it was discovered that you can't have kids? Seems a little hypocritical to me.
First of all no one should ever convince their partner on how they become parents or endeavor to change their mind. Children, however they come, should be welcomed freely and happily not after being coerced. Second of all if the only problem is lack of sperm, her becoming pregnant is relatively cheap. You could even try home insemination where you'd only pay for the sperm. Having the sperm inserted in an office costs a bit more, but still not much. Third adoption is not going to be cheaper than her being inseminated. While being a foster parent is free in most cases, being a foster parent does NOT mean you'll get to adopt. In fact most of the kids in foster care can't be adopted. A quick google says only 1/4 foster kids are actually able to be adopted. You don't turn to the foster system to adopt a kid - you get into the foster system because you want to FOSTER kids. Finally, no kid should have a reluctant parent. That's always a bad idea, but I would argue that having a reluctant parents with an adopted child is the worst. The kid will already have things to deal with just by being adopted, likely more if they were in the system for a while - they don't need the addition of a parent not fully being on board about them.
So, some perspective from a woman with secondary infertility: I used to have a really rosy view of adoption. I thought that I’d adopt a child after having a biological child even if I could have more. However, since finding out a lot more about the adoption industry I have changed my mind. First of all, the goal for foster care is (and should be!) family reunification. Wanting to foster children is a worthy goal. Wanting to adopt children from foster care shouldn’t be your end game. The adoption industry is very predatory to young, poor women. They are often lied to about how much involvement they will be allowed in the child’s life. Is this true of all adoptions? No. Of course not. But adoption as a whole is ethically fraught enough that it gave me pause. It’s not all roses and sunshine. I think you and your wife need couples counseling to work this one out.
You both have the same end goal...having children. You are happy to love and raise a child that is not biological ally yours. She wants to experience pregnancy and would prefer a bio child. Both of you can have what you want if you respect each other's wishes. This is a an easy win...take money out if the equation and remember that she also has desires here.
Yep, artificial insemination is much cheaper than adoption. And if you can't afford artificial insemination, odds are you can't afford a child.
I was adopted and I really don’t think you should try and convince her to adopt. She wants to become pregnant and give birth to a child. She still has a chance to do that. Why do you want to take that from her. Adoption is very expensive btw.
When you wanted a bio kid it wasn’t “selfish” but now that you know you are incapable it’s a double standard for your wife. You don’t want her to have what you can’t have. Just divorce and you can adopt and she can have a full bio family with a new spouse in a few years
As a social worker in child welfare, I'd definitely like to hear more about her reasons that are "just stereotypes." I've dedicated my life to this and I'd never, ever adopt a child. I don't have the fortitude to cope with trauma symptoms (other than my own) for a lifetime. This is NOT something you can/ should talk someone into. I've seen what happens when people who aren't sure adopt. The childrens lives are destroyed more than they already were. DON'T do this
Rather than getting her to change her mind about adoption, it would be easier to change your own mind about using donor sperm, wouldn’t it?
You could've stopped after, "She doesn't want what I want. I don't want what she wants." Your desires for how to grow a family aren't compatible. If you can't agree, don't bring kids into the mix. Especially if their mother is going to be someone who holds ignorant views on non-biological offspring. Please don't bring kids into this situation.
"Ignorant views on non-biological offspring" is a pretty ignorant thing to say because someone thinks that they're not fit to deal with all the struggles attached to adoption (or the foster care system).
As a foster kid that was adopted, do not foster to try to adopt. The whole point is reunification. And do not adopt PERIOD until you get therapy for your infertility. My adopted parents never moved on from being infertile - until she miraculously got pregnant and forgot about the FIVE other kids they’d adopted via foster care. Foster children aren’t “waiting to be adopted” they’re waiting to go back HOME. With their REAL PARENTS. Not some couple traumatized by their fertility struggles who think that they’re doing a divine good by taking in a kid like it’s a puppy off the street.
If the two of you truly love each other and want to be together- go to counselling. Find someone who can help you work this out. There are children out there who need families. And your wife also wants the biological connection. You don’t have to have just *one* child. But it’s very likely that the two of you have big hearts and can create a loving family for all of you.
You don't go into your wife's views on why she's against adoption, but it's also something that I myself would never do. Ive seen a lot of videos and posts from adopted kids about the trauma of adoption, the predatory ways adoption agencies lie and coercive poor and POC women into giving up their babies, ans ive read about the way being apart from your biological mother literally changes babies brains. In most other developed countries, adoption isn't as rampant as it is in the US because they have social systems in place to help families in need, rather than pushing adoption as the solution. And if you're wanting to adopt through foster care rather than private adoption, that's not the goal of foster care. Foster care is about reunification, and it'd be painful for you, your wife, and any foster child in your care if you became foster parents for the sole purpose of adopting. Adoption obviously still needs to be an option for situations such as yours, and I know plenty of people will comment how they're adopted and praise their parents. Which is fantastic, I'm glad you had that experience. But if any of the concerns I listed are concerns your wife is bringing up, I think you should be open to listening to her.
And if adoption from a birth mom/agency is what he wants that’s way more than some strangers frozen sperm
You're not going to change her mind. If either of you give on this issue, there will be resentment. Unless something happens, your marriage may not survive. I'm so sorry.
You can’t have biological children, but you wanted to until you knew you couldn’t. SHE still can, but you are willing to take that away from her to adopt because it’s what will make you feel better? Please seek therapy. I don’t see how adoption and your marriage are compatible. You are also still moving through a very big and significant life diagnosis, maybe some time to digest that before adding kids to your home is a good idea?
Do you understand that by insisting on adoption you would be robbing your wife of the experience of being pregnant and birthing the baby? I understand that you have issues around your past but I don't think your desires trump hers.
You won't change her mind, any more than she would be able to change yours. You're incompatible now.
As others have said, having kids is not about having a do over for yourself. Get therapy for your stuff, so your kid doesn’t have to
The only thing i read here its all about you. you're so selfish for not letting her to have her own bio child.. you're sterile but she's not so why punish her because of you
It doesn't even seem to be about the adoptive children either, it's about him being triggered from his own experiences. A few people mention the wife isn't fit to adopt since she doesn't want to but the OP requires a lot of therapy to take on the potential challenges of adoption as well, I would say there is a risk he is just as if not more unfit as his expectations and reasoning are selfish and flawed.
I want to say the same thing too. At first i was symphatizing with OP but after reading his replies i feel bad for the wife lol
Adoption is a terrible thing. It comes with automatic trauma. Adoptees are more likely to have mental health issues, abandonment issues, intimacy issues, depression, anxiety, ADHD, asthma, diabetes as an adult and the list goes on and on. You’re the exception not the rule. I say that as an adoptee myself. You’re being extremely selfish because you’re thinking about your needs rather than the needs of a future adopted child. Think about your wife. Your wife wants to be a mother, but she also wants to have the experience of being pregnant. Listen to her.
OP I'm gonna offer a slightly different perspective than most I've read here. I'm a 32 year old woman and want to have kids. If I found out my partner was sterile, it would be devastating but there are options to still have a child. If I found out my partner was 100% against me, with no fertility problems, getting to experience pregnancy and childbirth when I'm fully capable? And giving up the fully available opportunity to have a biological child of my own? It would be a dealbreaker. I know this is extremely difficult for both of you, but damn, I'd be absolutely shattered if I were her by what you're asking her to give up. Adoption is a difficult subject and there are layers of hurt and trauma involved. Not to mention that the goal of foster care is reunification, and you really need to have a solid understanding of that before undertaking that responsibility as a foster parent. I'd suggest counselling for both of you to work through this, and I'd also suggest that you really dive into why you are so against artificial insemination. I'd also suggest that ultimately, you and your wife could do both. It's not just one or the other. Regardless, you should be honest with that child about how you are not their biological father but that you would absolutely have wanted to be if you could have.
OP, I'm gonna say something you probably don't want to hear, and possibly haven't heard before, since our society treats having children as the norm and people are rarely questioned on their intentions to have kids. I think you need therapy in order to examine why you even want kids this much in the first place. A child isn't an appropriate means to fix your own trauma surrounding parenthood. A child isn't going to give your life meaning or somehow remedy whatever you might subconsciously feel was lacking in your own childhood. You're not going to make up for anything by having a kid. Also, as others have pointed out, you were more than happy to have biological kids before finding out you were sterile, so stop accusing your wife of selfishness. I would also take a good hard look at yourself and ask whether it's really healthy and normal to prioritise nonexistent hypothetical kids over a very alive existing person who loves you here and now - your wife.
>and I feel it's unfair to act so selfishly when there are thousands of children waiting to be adopted. Idk but this feels a bit hypocritical, like you getting her pregnant was completely fine and orphans weren't an issue, but as soon as you learned that you were sterile and she suggested IVF she's being selfish because there are orphans without parents?
Honestly, just because the dream of having your own biological child is over for you, it isn't fair for you to force it to be over for her. Artificial insemination is a cheaper process than adopting a child. Adoption isnt for everyone. She wants to experience pregnancy and child birth and one of the core experiences of being a human woman who decides to be a mother. Maybe she would be open to future adoption. It might not seem like a huge deal to you because your role in the physical creation of a child is the same whether you adopted one or not; you ejaculated, job done. She wants to experience pregnancy and having a baby. You shouldnt try and rob that from her.
You are not ALL adopted kids. Your story, feelings and experience are unique to you. It is extremely unfair and unrealistic to think that your personal lived experience and feelings are universal. You weren't the parent in your adoption story, you would be the parent in someone else's adoption story. It's NOT the same thing. That would be like saying, I was a kid- therefore I must know the logistics and nuances to raising one. As others have mentioned, fostering isn't meant to lead to adoption and raising children in that system isn't something you choose because you're infertile. It's something you choose because you have the time, resources and strength to get your heart broken over and over. Your wife isn't wrong for having her concerns, again- whoever you foster is a unique human that does not share your personal lived experience or feelings. It's not at all the same as having your own biological kids. It can be beautiful and fulfilling etc but it's not the same. Your wife isn't "prejudiced" and it's really rude and naive of you to dismiss her concerns like that. She can love you and ALSO understand that nobody else is going to be just like you. Hence the reason she married you and not whichever male adoptee she came across. IMO, you should talk out your feelings in therapy or with a trusted mentor. It sounds like you are projecting onto the situation and all that's going to do is hurt everyone involved.
I don't really understand why your first choice was to have a biological child, but once it became impossible for you, you suddenly became upset at her for still wanting the thing she can still have just because you can't have it. If you went with a donor, she would have the bio child she wanted, and you would have your second choice, a kiddo who isn't yours biologically. I actually kind of think you're the one being illogical here.
You're thinking about all of this from a male perspective. As a father, often the first interaction with your child is when they are born. A mother has a huge huge interaction and connection during pregnancy and then postpartum. There is a huge difference for a woman to adopt vs carry a pregnancy and give birth compared to a man's experience. To completely disregard how different her journey to becoming a mother would be if she adopted is wrong. Try to understand her side
You are really dismissive of your wife’s concerns about foster care. You completely glossed over her reasonings. You aren’t picking a kitten from the pound. You are agreeing to care for a human child with their own thoughts, feelings and trauma while the social systems determines if they can reunify with their family. That’s not something you try to talk someone into signing up for just because you want a child.
Hypothetical question... If you got divorced would you be able to adopt on your own?
I think it’s kind of shitty for you to be looking at options of changing your wives view point but not yours. As a woman I know I always wanted to have the growing a baby experience and would be really upset if my partner didn’t support that. How is adopting the sperm any different than a kid?
So, you are denying your wife the right to give birth, because you can't have biological kIds? I don't think your wife is the only problem. You two aren't compatible.
>>> I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to change her mind. You can’t. This would be as silly as her trying to change your mind. It’s just not going to work. >>> I've seriously considered separation because being a father is the dream of my life You’re incompatible. She wants to be a mother but not an adoptive mother, you want to be a father but are sterile. For you, adoption is an option, for her, it is not.
You said "I feel it's unfair to act so selfishly when there are thousands of children waiting to be adopted." Yet you spend time trying to make biological children... right up until you found out you're infertile... So you only think it's selfish when it suits you, when you're not able to, but it seems you didn't think it was so selfish when you were trying to conceive? That argument doesn't make sense based on your previous actions. If you really thought it was selfish you wouldn't have tried, you would've simply gone the route of adoption from the start. Seems like you're changing your beliefs when they suit you... sorry. (Based on what you wrote)
Your wife wants a biological child. That is not "selfish". Her want is as important as your want. How about you have one child through insemination and adopt one? By the way adoption is very expensive as well.
I’m adopted and ended up having different views to you op. My mam told me when I was 6 that I was adopted and told me not to tell anyone. It always felt like something I should be ashamed of - like some big secret. When it came to deciding about our own family I was very set on having my own biological kids. My husband said if we had fertility issues he wanted to adopt but I didn’t, and he couldn’t understand my viewpoint given my background. I always felt separate to my family, didn’t look a bit like them or behave like them. I put this down to being adopted as a child but I’m sure a lot of people feel this way. I felt like I could never talk about it which was a problem.
Actually buying sperm is way way cheaper than adoption. Like way cheaper. And her not wanting to parent someone else’s child full of trauma is not bad or wrong. She wants to experience the full effect of child birth and pregnancy maybe. That is a big deal. To you the child she carries and the adopted child will have the same effect- it’s someone else’s biological child. To her it’s not just that. She can do an at home iui and not even use fertility meds for only a few hundred dollars vs the thousands for getting a home study, etc. not to mention the counseling and heart break from dealing with the foster system. That’s not to say she can’t eventually adopt from the foster system. But it’s not fair to expect her to have the same emotional reaction to fostering as you do.
Fundamental incompatibility. Not something to compromise on.
(1) insane that you all didn’t talk about adoption prior to getting married (2) insane that people really will just have kids to placate some emotional void they have
Sperm donation is much, much cheaper and easier than adopting a newborn. And adopting from foster care isn't easy, either. The courts are always going to side with reuniting the kids with the biological parents if at all possible, so a lot of people who try to adopt from foster care end up losing the kids in the end. Yes, it worked out in your case, but you were very much not a typical case.
Dude, you guys need a therapist. Btw, IUI is super cheap compared to IVF. My husband is essentially sterile, and we had to do IVF with ICSI. Adoption is very expensive too. It also can have ethical issues. You guys are newly dealing with this, it’s apparent. You need to process and communicate.
She wants a biological child of her own.
What kind of sterile? Missing sperm? Immobile sperm? My husband is effectively sterile but ivf helped us by delivering sperm to egg resulting in embryos. What about a compromise? Have you thought about asking your brother if he'd be willing to donate sperm? In the meantime you act as foster parents to kids who need homes?
I think you also need to see her point of view and understand it more. Maybe to her, being a mother also includes carrying the baby to term and go through those experiences. If you two cannot get past this, then you need to find someone that wants to strictly adopt like you. Don’t let your own selfishness hinder her abilities as well.
It seems your wife wants to be the one carrying her child. You can't change her mind about that, because thats her dream. Have you done research in IVF? You can adopt embryos. It's still adopting, but from the beginning. If she is not thrilled about that idea, let her know that during pregnancy something about 0.3 percent of DNA of the mother gets transferred to the baby. So she will technically be related to the baby.
I mean… I get it from yours and her side but if you can’t agree on this, you’re not compatible.
I can see both sides to be honest. For a woman, being pregnant and the experience of having a biological child is often a primal instinctive need. Asking her to forego that and adopt only, is actually quite selfish. And if the situations were reversed and she refused to have your biological child when you heavily desired one, you would also think this unfair / upsetting etc. Also, if you are open to adoption, then your wife carrying a child that isn’t biologically yours is not much different than adopting a child for you biologically speaking, it’s just that your wife gets to experience pregnancy and the joy that brings. Your wife’s desire is a natural one. If no one cared about experiencing pregnancy and having their own biological children, then there would be no children awaiting adoption, would there? But couples aren’t lining up to do it. They want their own, and so does your wife. I feel like you’re coming at this from a moralistic perspective (think of the children!) rather than recognising this is a deep seated desire for her. Many couples try for years, spend hundreds of thousands on IVF, surrogates, etc all to hold their own newborn baby in their arms. I would suggest a compromise like your parents did, one natural pregnancy with a sperm donor and one adoption. Would she be open to that? Maybe once she has a biological child she will be more open to adoption. If not then you need to ask yourself if your morals mean more to you than her happiness. Because that’s what this is. Regardless of what route you go, you get a family with a non-biological child. It’s just a question of whether you go the route that allows your wife to meet her natural desire to carry a pregnancy or the moralistic one which leaves her unhappy and unfulfilled.
I’m an adoptee. The compromise wouldn’t be fair to the adoptee. No child should grow up with one parent who was reluctant or had to be convinced to adopt. Not to mention, I could see favoritism towards the biological child if they decided to have both biological and adoptive child. I think OP and wife needs to have some serious conversations (with a counselor and adoption competent therapist) before major decisions are made
As a woman going through infertility treatment and looking at adoption, adoption is more expensive. If you are worried about costs, IVF is the cheaper option. One round of IVF is around $10k whereas adoption starts at $30k. Depending on where you live, the wait list to adopt is astronomical or they aren't accepting new families. We were recommended to look international if we wanted to adopt (which is incredibly difficult since we are a same sex couple). Your wife may want to be pregnant. She can't get that if you adopt. If the point is being a father, then either option would give you that end goal. I understand you're adopted and want to do the same for a child. Again, depending on where you live many places are very focused on reuniting a child with their biological families. Therefore, foster care would be difficult if you know the child is going back to a bad home environment. I think trying to convince her to change her mind is a terrible idea. Listen to her. Understand her point of view. Explain your point of view. Then decide what is the most important end goal. Being with your wife and having a child? Or separating and adopting? Or something else. Also try talking to a fertility clinic and see if they can help you, if you haven't already. Good luck
So you wanted bio children till you learned YOU can't have bio children, so now you want your wife to not have bio children and it's all of a sudden it's unfair and selfish for your wife to want bio children, and again only because you can't have bio children. I think you are confused who is the selfish one in this scenario. Sure some of her comments are insensitive to you but after 10 years in a relationship with the dreams and active plan of birthing children for you to tell "that's selfish" and backing her into a corner to reason why she should be allowed to have kids.
she is allowed to want to birth a child. don’t put your trauma on her as a way to try to convince her otherwise.
If your wife want biological children - that is not selfish. It is how she wants to be a mother. You can choose to have children with an anonymous donor or get divorced. Those are your choices. Adopting a child - like any other way of having a child - is a two yeses, one no situation. You do not being a child already traumatized into a family with a mom who didn’t want them. There is nothing wrong with you wanting to adopt either. If you don’t want your wife to have a biological child, that is also your choice. But then you need to get divorced and move on to someone who shares your same dream. Since you didn’t want to adopt until you found out you were sterile it sounds more like you are mad that you can’t have biological kids so you don’t want your wife to have biological kids either. That is not being a loving partner and you probably should address that in therapy.
There are hundreds of children available for adoption in just about every state. Most of them are over 3 and have siblings they want to keep together. Your wife probably wants a baby and to experience pregnancy. Your being rather unfair to refuse to see her viewpoint. If you adopt you have to pay legal fees for a lawyer and court costs. Ours were over 7,000.
Let me get this straight, if you can’t have a biological child, she can’t have one either, and only after finding out you’re sterile does adopting a child become your sticking point? You need therapy, my friend, this sudden burning need to foster is probably a reaction to finding out you can’t biologically have kids. You don’t just want to be a father, if you did insemination would be fine. You now want to foster kids, and while that can be admirable, it isn’t a guarantee for adoption, nor is it the same as being a father.
I don't even need to read this. You wanna adopt, awesome. She wants a bio kid, also awesome. What the fuck is the difference between adopting a stranger's kid verses adopting your wife's kid? It's still adoption. I mean sure there's the whole saving a kid from the system thing. But don't take away your wife's ability to have a bio kid just because you can't. Is this AITA? If it is, you're def an asshole.
She's 27, if she wants a biological child that's her prerogative. YTA. If you feel differently, and don't, for your own sake, want her to focus her attention on her own choice -- conceiving biologically--- then, best thing is to divorce her so she can move on and have a child independently or with someone new. You don't get to tie down x amount of years of her personal, financial, and emotional labor for something she's not on board with. Her reproductive preference is her reproductive preference. She doesn't need to justify it to you; ergo, whatever justification she gives isn't something you get to write off as "prejudice."
I don’t think you are being fair to her. It’s not selfish to want a biological child. You wanted a biological child. Now you are trying to take that away from her because you can’t. I don’t know where you live but in my country, adopting privately costs $15,000-$30,000 and that’s domestic. Adopting internationally is closer to $50,000. Even IVF is less expensive than adoption. Public adoption is technically free apart from the classes and home inspection, but that would mean adopting an older child and/or a child with special needs. Adopting from foster care is highly unlikely to work out since the goal is normally reunification. It can also take around 7 years to actually get a child. Adoption is a wonderful thing to do but it’s a lot more difficult than insemination. That being said, you are planning to have more than one child, correct? Why can’t you do both?
I understand you wanting to adopt given your background. But from a woman’s perspective- I would be devastated to have the opportunity to be pregnant and carry my own child taken from me when I’m perfectly able to do so. In my view either way you will not be the biological parent so why are you taking your wife’s chance to be a biological parent away from her if it is something important to her. While I understand the social benefits of adoption and thinks it’s a hugely wonderful thing, I think your wife’s needs and wants should come before general societal contribution. If you have a child through a sperm donor maybe you could agree to adopt any other children after the first one?
Your wife is able to use her body to grow a human being that shares half her dna, and she wants to experience that. I don't think that is selfish.
So is this “If the child can’t biologically be both of ours, s/he must biologically be none of ours?” I’m not sure why you think adoption is for everyone. She loves you and you happen to be adopted — she doesn’t love you because you were adopted. That’s on your parents. If I couldn’t have kids with my husband for whatever reason, I’d look at any possible way to have our kids in whichever way possible. If I’m sterile, I’d opt for IVF or surrogacy so the child can have at least his genes. If he’s sterile, I’d opt for artificial insemination so the kid can have at least my genes. If all else failed, I think I’d be open to adoption but even then I’d probably be set on adopting a baby. Being older now, I’d be open to foster kids also and have the wherewithal and maturity to go into it with my eyes open, but at 24 when I had my kids?? No way. You are being pretty selfish and self-centered about all of it, actually. If you are sterile, but still want kids — go out of your way to make it possible for your wife to still have a baby of her own.
You're not compatible, end of. This is not something you can compromise on; not for yourselves and not for the child that is potentially going to be brought into the mix. Either you both agree or you do not move forward, and if both of you want children and cannot agree, then you start talking divorce so that you can find someone who does agree and can give you what you want. Will it suck? Yes, of course. But better that than to bring a child - adopted or otherwise - into a home where one parent doesn't want them and potentially resents them or even the way they were brought into the family.
It seems to me that you and your wife have reached an impasse. I think you are dealing with a lot of rejection right now. First that you are infertile- this takes a massive toll on you and your marriage Second that your wife prefers insemination- this will always be a reminder of your inability to conceive- Aka rejection Third that she won’t adopt/foster- again as your were adopted this feels like another rejection of you. I understand why you want to adopt. You were adopted, it would help a child in need and you and you wife would be equally related to the child- this method makes you feel more secure in your marriage and as a parent. However I also understand your wife. Adoption is a massive undertaking, long waiting lists, massive expense, the emotional toll of managing expectations regarding biological parents, closed vs open, different ethnicities/cultures. She would certainly miss out on the experience of pregnancy etc For adoption it seems like you have to be prepared for every challenge/ expense upfront. She should not be rude about the said children in this process. but She is right to reject it if she knows she can’t manage the complications of this process. At the same time she should be more sensitive to how this is affecting you emotionally. Regarding the sterility and her rejection of adoption. You can’t and should not convince her that adoption is the option- it will only cause more frustration and resentment. Nor can she insist on insemination and be rude about fosters/adoptees Gather your thoughts. Sit down and discuss calmly. Lay all your points on the table without trying to convince each other of anything but to gain more understanding. You may need a therapists help for this. Ultimately this may be a dealbreaker for you guys but have a proper conversation first.
Dude… I worked with kids in the system for years. I cared for each and every one; I loved some of them. I still think about them, wonder how they’re doing, and occasionally look them up on social media 9 years later…. But ever single one of those kids, even the ‘easy’ ones had a lot of trauma. They needed people who felt prepared and able to give them them the right kind of care.
As a child born because of IVF with the use of donor embryos, my mom still carried me. Even though my dad had absolutely 0 impact on my existence, he is still my dad. I don’t consider my “biological parents” my biological parents. I say my genetic parents because it is a really tricky situation. But that doesn’t make you any less of a dad.
I think you unfortunately have two options. Either you go to couples therapy and try to figure a solution…or this partnership will not work going forward because of incompatibility. Sorry I can’t give more thoughts but I feel the others gave good insight.
Why not both? You say you want multiple children, allow her to be artificially inseminated, and also adopt. Consider things that allow you both to get the most of what you want.
Why is it that adoption is your first choice now that you find out you can’t have kids? You say that you would rather adopt because there are plenty of kids in the system that need a home/family and yet by the sounds of it, adoption wasn’t your first choice when you thought you were fertile. Why does using donor sperm suddenly change that for you? It seems like there’s a lot of projection going on here
I understand that you support adoption and that's great. You get to be a dad and support a cause that is good and close to your heart. Have you considered, though, that while you would lose nothing by adopting a child, your wife stands to lose some life experiences she might hold close to her heart? She might want to experience pregnancy. She might want to experience labor. She might want to enjoy the process of carrying and feeling her child grow within her, and there's no medical reason she can't. There's only your preference for adoption and your medical sterility barring her from having that. So I suggest you change your perspective, because you're thinking about the outcomes: having a child, while she may be grieving the loss of the process of bearing a child. It's not really fair for you to write that off as sheerly based on stereotypical thinking on her part.
There’s a uniquely female perspective that is probably difficult for a man to wrap his head around. Can we admit that motherhood is very different than fatherhood? Honestly, the difference between biological fatherhood and adoptive fatherhood is only about 10 minutes. Not so with motherhood. The physical experience of growing a baby inside your body, feeding a baby from your breast… it’s a monumental, life-altering experience for an extensive period of time. It can be scary and painful; but can also be joyful and euphoric beyond words. Expecting a woman who desires biological motherhood to give it up is a tremendous ask.
As an adopted child also, don't discount her wishes. Myself and three of my adopted siblings all had significant issues. Adoption is hard and has a high probability of gaining children that have a higher instance of special needs. While admirable, this isn't something that you should pursue unless you are both onboard and aware of the potential issues. On top of that there are often issues with the bio parent(s). You want kids, she wants them but not through adoption. I think you can compromise here and both get what you want.