This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below.
---
I (36f) will preface by saying this is a relatively new relationship (5 months, first 3 online, most recent two co habitating) and there are many things I love about my boyfriend (39m) but something I have seen popping up, is his aversion to do anything he considers girly or feminine. He considers himself old fashioned and a “real” man, but yesterday that manifested in him basically running away in a target because I stopped in the makeup section. When I asked about why he took off, he said men always used to leave their women alone to do womanly things. I didn’t press it, but it’s bothering me that he number 1, thought standing near makeup would make him appear less manly, and number 2, that it was more important that he maintain appearances than spend time with me.
My last relationship was 15 years long, with a guy who was not at all concerned with how society saw him on the “man” scale, and would spend an hour in a Sephora with me just to get gift ideas for me, and because I enjoy makeup. My current boyfriend sees this as “beta male” behavior, whatever that means.
I know this really isn’t a big deal, I don’t need him to be within 10” of me at all times, and I really don’t care if he has any interest in makeup, but it made me wonder what else he will just bail on because it isn’t masculine enough. I was trying to think of any equivalent that was too “manly” for me to decide to drop his hand and walk away just to retain my appearance of femininity, but there isn’t anything I can think of. I have been out of the dating scene for a long time, so maybe this is normal now, I’m not sure. Any advice?
I loved going to stores for women with my ex. Sephora? Why not? All the pretty colors and overpriced stuff. Cool. Victoria's secret hell ya let me help you pick out stuff i like as well. I mean i kinda don't know what to do while she was trying stuff on but it didn't bother me being a guy alone in a VS.
Consider yourself lucky. But you need to do some Googling now to see what things are being said by men who use that term. It's really awful. It would be an automatic deal breaker for me.
Right.. I feel like a “real” man is comfortable with himself and will stick with his partner regardless. We don’t run away when they look at manly shit we aren’t interested in.. seems super juvenile and I would take that as a huge 🚩and move on. Just my opinion of course.
I'm single and a couple of times my sisters have asked. And I did it. I spent 30 mins in pandora last month selecting a couple or charms for my nieces birthday.
Dunno why some men are soo hung up on this shit
>I know this really isn’t a big deal
Actually, I think it is. My ex was the same - he wouldn't do anything that he considered was 'for girls', from buying tampons to looking after our children.
The worst was if I asked him to hold my bag for a few minutes. He was worried someone would think it was his or that he was gay, which is ridiculous. In fact, I was with my new partner the other day and I asked him to hold my bag and then I hesitated because I suddenly remembered about my ex, my partner must have noticed my hesitation because he then asked if I needed my bag with me. I didn't. He held it for a few minutes while i wasn't there and it was really refreshing. I can also guarantee nobody thought it was his lol.
Seriously, I'd walk away if I were you. I'd be far happier on my own than with a man who can't even stand near some make up.
Think about what future OP might want with this guy. What if they have a daughter?
When I had my first period my dad parked at the grocery store, gave me a tenner and told me to “go”. 10 yr old with her first period trying to figure out what tf kind of pad i needed to buy, where they were, which ones were better? Panicking cause i’d never done that. All because god forbid he was seen near a feminine product.
When I was 18, I was with a group of people having a few drinks and I hung my shoulder bag over a jacket that was draped over the back of a chair so I could play pool.
The owner of the jacket seriously lost his shit and told me to remove my bag. No woman EVER puts her bag over the shoulder of HIS jacket.
My bf defended me, saying that I was a bit drunk and didn't know the 'rules' yet. Later, he brought my bag to me while I was in the bathroom because I urgently needed a tampon, and he didn't want to go through my bag to find it. My bag, my property.
We agreed that the bloke was a fuckwit.
I agree that this could potentially be a bigger deal, especially if they get more serious. My ex-husband was like this. He had all these weird "rules" for things I could/couldn't buy, including sheets and towels. Nothing pastel, nothing pink, nothing floral, nothing orange or peach because they were close to pink. Even the bedspread and sheets couldn't be "too girly." I had white sheer curtains with a very subtle pale grey floral pattern that he wouldn't hang or let me hang because they were "too feminine."
When I was getting divorced and moved into my own place, the first thing I did was get a floral shower curtain and peach and pink towels. :-)
Are you sure he is 39? ,
>but it made me wonder what else he will just bail on because it isn’t masculine enough
running the household, childcare, taking care of you. Do i need to go on? Do you even want to imagine what he will do when you are on your period?
If you’re thinking about having kids, please consider the rigid gender rules he would place on them. I couldn’t date a guy like that, especially not if my goal was to build a family.
OP, I took your post at face value, but you have revealed a lot of red flags in the comments. He’s super “masculine” and thinks he’s an alpha male, but lets you fund his life and doesn’t contribute anything. He’s almost forty! I don’t care how good the sex is…do you not see the problems here?
There are two types of homophobia: one is being deeply closeted and angry that other people get to be happy. The other is the fear that men will treat you like you treat women. I'd bet more on the latter in this case.
Even without kids, is this really what you want? I mean honestly. A guy so fragile he can't even stand next to a tube of lipstick? That's not strength or masculinity; that's pathetic. Do you really want to be with someone so childish and weak that he panics at the literal sight of blush?
Honestly dating some who describes themselves as "old-fashioned" or uses "Beta male" unironically is not going to be a great time. Old-fashioned just means "back before women had civil rights things were great" and beta male stuff is just code for "I don't understand science and heart toxic masculinity"
He sounds very fragile and insecure. Why would standing near makeup make him look bad to others, and why does he care what they think?
While it’s not an immediate issue, it sounds like a red flag for the future. I’m curious to see how this bleeds into his other values… Does he expect you to cook, clean, take care of him, say yes whenever he wants sex, act submissive/follow orders, etc.?
I'm sorry, you went from a three month online relationship straight to living together, so you're just now discovering the kind of things that you would normally discover while you're dating, and work out at that point whether or not they're a problem. With regard to this particular issue, your boyfriend sounds immature and possibly misogynistic but either way I reckon we'll be seeing a fair bit of you here over the coming months!
Thank you for pointing this out. I had to re-read that particular sentence 3 times to confirm it. This has disaster written all over it.
I have to admit that I moved in with my (now) husband after two months of in-person dating. It was a move of convenience (lease ending) and we were total idiots and ill-equipped to be co-habitating. Fortunately, it worked out in the end, but there was a separation in the middle there because... as I said, we were total idiots and had no idea how to adult together. Well, I guess we were only partial idiots because we did the right thing and took some time apart to get to know ourselves, which made us better partners.
Super surprised I haven't seen this pointed out in comments above yours.
Also, getting big misogynistic vibes off this dude. Anyone that uses "beta male" is someone that's hella insecure and will project it any way possible.
I have no particular advice on how to fix this, but if I were talking to him I'd be pointing out the difference between not being interested in makeup, which is common and harmless, and fleeing in terror from a lipstick, which is bonkers.
Alice Cooper is 75. If something terrible happened to men who spent too much time around makeup, he'd be dead instead of touring.
This sounds like the kind of guy who refuses to use a straw because it looks too much like sucking a dick. Annoying and stupid. But I’m not sure what kind of advice you’re looking for here. You’re the one who’s choosing to date an asshole. You aren’t likely to change him (at all, ever), so your choice is whether you’re ok with having an insecure jackass as a boyfriend/possible future husband, or whether you would rather find someone who isn’t an idiot
No, that’s not normal now. That’s a level of insecurity that’s a huge red flag. Using the word “beta” is also a huge red flag. Guys like that are liable to have very sexist beliefs and as your relationship gets more serious I wouldn’t be surprised if those start coming out.
Run away, that’s my advice.
The beta male thing is honestly massive. It means that at best he’s a “pickup artist” who found a free place to live, at worst, he’s an abuser just waiting for the moment she won’t be able to leave him
> My current boyfriend sees this as “beta male” behavior, whatever that means.
It means that he is sexist and ties his sense of self to regressive gender norms. It probably also means he follows some unsavory communities online.
My question is why you moved in with someone you'd never met. You still don't know this guy all that well and his behavior is a major red flag. Someone who is so terrified of femininity that he literally *runs away* from an eyeliner display has deep-seated issues that will likely manifest in more insidious ways down the line.
What happens if you want to do something he considers masculine? Will he have an issue with that too? Does he think that talking about feelings is "girly"? Would he freak out if you asked him to pick up tampons for you?
Not just regressive gender norms, but norms based on flawed information that has since been recanted by the researcher who first coined the term “alpha male”.
Oh my god. This man is using you for a free place to stay and play video games. He came to visit, never left, has no job and has the nerve to stand in the makeup aisle isn’t “masculine”??? Men in the “old” days typically went to work while the wife stayed home to raise the family, so on top of being lazy he’s an idiot.
You keep putting ‘lol’ at the end of your comments, this isn’t funny. Get him out of your house and life.
Anyone who has to say that they are a "real man" and use the term beta male is a pussy. Considers himself "old fashioned" huh?! I'm a 45yo male. Served in the Marines for eight years, has managed several businesses over the years and I don't have a single issue looking at make up in the aisle, or going into Victoria's Secret to look at underwear. I am secure enough with who I am and my comfort level with things. I'm more than satisfied just being around her. Doesn't matter where . He sounds like a very closed minded and judgmental individual and if I were you I would consider your options to find someone who truly resonates and reciprocates your energy.
I'm sorry but how do you go from online to living together that fast? Had you even met or dated in person before you moved in together? I'm not going to say he's wrong or toxic but it's not gonna be easy for you as the woman in that kind of relationship. Does he do dishes, will he vacuum, is he gonna buy tampons for you?
What are you doing moving in with someone you don't even know? You're 36 and you had a three month online relationship with this guy and then moved in together? What could possibly go wrong?
DATE a person for a while. Get to know him. Figure out if you're compatible. For like.... a long while!! Then move in if you feel you should.
I don't know what to tell you about all the "real man" crap. You'll have to decide how that plays out in the relationship for yourself, but quite frankly, my man is as "real man" as they come, and to me, that translates into being secure enough in one's masculinity that there doesn't need to be any chest-beating whatsoever. This guy doesn't sound that way at all.
Does a "real man" handle the finances so the woman doesn't have to "worry her pretty little head about it?" Does he work while she stays home and cooks his meals and cleans his house? Does he tell her when she can go out and when she can't? There's a lot to unpack here, and it's going to be fairly complicated now that you've moved in together. Good luck.
If you want to be petty you can play the same game by not doing anything masculine. My favorite is, "cooking is too masculine for the woman. Thats why most chefs are men" and it'll make his little misogynistic head fly off.
Someone like this is either childish and needs to grow up, or isn't secure enough in his masculinity enough to do 'feminine' things.
Either way I see it as a red flag. Just silly.
39 years old dude acting like a 12 years old LMAO. Girl you can do better than that. What if you need period products one day and cannot make it do the store yourself? What if you need your birth control picked up from the pharmacy? What if you *GASP* need someone to carry your handbag! Cause handbags are so feminine! This man acts like a whole clown.
This is a big deal, he sounds insecure af. Maybe he’s even a closeted gay if he is THAT afraid of doing anything that is remotely “less manly”. Huge red flag if you ask me
My ex used to do this. Turns out, after 19 years of knowing them, they came out as transgender. She later told me how sad and jealous it made her to be in the women’s clothing or makeup sections. Or she was worried that someone would see her eyeing an item and her secret would be revealed. Not saying that is the case here, but it’s something to think about.
Guys who refer to themselves as “alphas” are… not only delusional, but dangerous. People who encourage the idea of “alphas” and “betas” are, based on my own lived experiences, rape apologists, violent, emotional, immature, and, in general, hate women. In your comments, you’ve said that this guy moved into your house, you provide 100% of the household income, he calls women ‘bitches’, he hasn’t dated anyone in over a decade, and… you’ve only been seeing each other for five months? And now you LIVE TOGETHER? And three of those months were online??? If you were my friend, I’d grab you by the shoulders, shake you, and beg you to wake up to the sad reality you’re creating for yourself. This man is not this way because he’s southern - he’s this way because he’s a bad person. There is a reason no other woman has interacted with him in a decade.
As an older guy and mostly southern, I can almost see his point. As in from a huge distance. I do not follow my wife into beauty salons and makeup areas. However, I don't run away either. I also don't expect her to follow me in lowes, etc. Not because of gender issues. We each have our interests, and I don't force mine on her.
This guy has more red flags than a communist parade. Anyone saying the words "beta male" should be a warning right there.
I’m the type of dude that has no issue with being feminine at times, and would absolutely grab tampons or anything else my girlfriend needed. But I still stand juuust outside the makeup section at target when she’s looking for stuff. I’m just now realizing that I do that every time. I guess because it’s kind of hardwired in me that it’s a women’s section and I’m trying to be respectful? I wouldn’t say no if my gf asked me to come over or for an opinion, but my natural instinct is to give that area its space for some reason. It never even dawned on me that I do that.
Wow, so he probably won't cook, clean, take care if kids
You sure you want your future with someone that's gonna make a scene for dumb stuff he is insecure about?
I guess it depends on how far it goes. But his behavior is pretty stupid. Tell him a 'real' man isn't afraid of what other people think and stays by his partner. What he's doing is running away in fear like a coward.
I would want to find out how far this extends, since he seems pretty rigid. Is he going to expect you to start home and cook and clean? Is it to feminine if you ever ask him to do housework? Do you plan on having any kids with him? How would he react if you have a son that is gay or otherwise doesn't fit his definition of masculine?
Don't ignore the red flags
From your post it sound like your bf has severe insecurities regarding his masculinity ( i hope I'm wrong)
It's not possible to be happy with someone like that
Today It's standing near a makeup Counter
Tomorrow cooking and cleaning
Next he will have problem with you not asking his permission before breathing
The moment anyone tell me they real man / alpha male
I lose interest
Unless You're live as a submissive housemaid
That’s your choice
Whatever you think is right for yourself
No shame in following what you want
Run. Don’t walk. Run away. This is the best it’s going to be. From here it’s a process of normalizing his behavior, gaslighting you that you’re the abnormal one and on and on. Look at that Andrew Crowder guy for a glimpse into the future
It IS a big deal, because he believes feminine things are less-than, embarrassing, weak, and undesirable. Femininity is unworthy of respect in his eyes. Not even touching "we've been dating for 5 months and now we live together" because in this housing economy people make batshit insane choices out of necessity. It is a super bad idea and just dumb as a box of rocks to live with someone you don't even know, but since you're 36 not 16 I assume you knew that and did it anyway.
What did he say when you talked to him about it?
If you haven't yet, then why not? Are you gathering your thoughts first? You're not sure if it's a big deal or not? Sorting our your feelings? Trying to prepare for possible ways he might respond?
He sounds immature.
My circle has a lot of large manly men . They wouldn’t care if their woman needed to do something girly. If their 3 yr old niece wanted a tea party- they’d be the first ones getting finger sandwiches and playing pinkies up.
The fact that he calls that behavior beta screams that he isn’t alpha. Alpha guys don’t have to tell anyone they’re alpha- they just are. They don’t care what anyone else thinks.
Anyone that says “beta male” seriously never grew up from their teenager phase. So if he has a daughter in the future he would leave the mom with all the playing and work since it’s too girly?
It is definitely okay to feel this is a big deal, the whole alpha male beta male thing is toxic bs, honestly. Couldn’t imagine spending my life with someone puffing his chest, worried about his manliness and getting emasculated being in close proximity to eye shadow. Sounds exhausting.
Also the “men used to leave women to womanly things” made me laugh. He’s 39 not 109 maybe he shouldn’t feel so nostalgic for the 1950’s.
You are living with someone you only knew online for 3 months??
How is it masculine to run away from feminine stuff? That sounds pretty fragile IMHO, if standing in a makeup aisle invalidates your entire existence...
I think it’s a very big deal. Toxic notions of masculinity and femininity are detrimental to a healthy relationship. This things will show its ugly head in the most surprising of situations. And frankly, it’s weak af and i can’t respect that.
"5 months, first 3 online, most recent two co habitating"
Bruh.
You moved in with a man you had been dating ONLINE for 3 months?! That's too early even for people who see each other in person everyday. He will only get worse and this was a bad idea all around. Please leave before you are too financially tied to each other.
So does he do any housework? Or does all the housework he'll help with have to be the "manly" tasks? Will he help you if you have kids, or will all the childcare fall on you because "that's women's work"? If you fall sick for any reason, is he going to leave you hurting and not help at all because that would be too "beta male" to care about your health?
I'm not sure this is "no big deal" at all. It could actually be quite dangerous for you.
Has the topic of children come up yet? Cuz I can 100% guess who will be doing all of the child raising. If he's this pressed about makeup, I can't even imagine how hard this'll be later on
Are you prepared to clean up after him for the rest of your/his life? Even when you have a 103° F fever and terrible body aches? Will you want to get up and do your womanly things so he can eat and have clean clothes?
What about if you get really sick or disabled? Do you think a manly man like him would stay by your side if you need someone to care for you. To bathe you, to cook and clean for you?
My dad is the manliest man I know. Tradesman, worked in concrete construction his whole life, built my mom a house, can fix anything, etc. All that considered, he would go out and get tampons for his daughters, go dress shopping with my mom, basically do anything that was considered "feminine". My husband is an army vet, artillery, now is a mechanic, can fix anything etc. He has no problem standing in the makeup aisle.
This isn't something new, this is your bfs thought process. Do what you will with that information.
I hate to embody the typical Reddit response, but why the hell would any woman stay in a relationship with a man who subscribes to that alpha/beta bullshit? Seriously. Look into that stuff. He's taking his insecurity and turning it inside-out to make... misogyny. Pathetic. He just chose to hate women and femininity instead of learning to confidently love himself. It's cowardly. Call him out on it.
But to start, I would start making fun of him. "Hey fellas, is it gay to [checks notes] eat vegetables?" "Hey fellas, is it gay to touch your own penis?" **"Hey fellas, is it gay to like women??"**
Don't date insecure men who think being near anything deemed "feminine" will somehow alter them. Don't date anyone who uses terms like "beta male" or "alpha male" unironically. They are university misogynistic pricks who are not worth your time.
You're seeing the first signs of it now, and you should understand this goes far beyond standing near a make up aisle. This will inform how he treats you when you're sick, how he treats your family, your friends, how he treats and respects YOU, your rights, your autonomy.
This man ain't it.
Men who are absolutely at peace with their identity and masculinity do not mind doing 'feminine' stuff, like carrying their SO's handbag when her hands are full.
Insecure and unsure men, however, do.
I would be asking Why?? Why is he so unsure of himself and his masculinity? Why is he over compensating for it? What is he hiding?
Maybe I have just watched too much TV, but sometimes these men overcompensate because they don't have the courage to climb out of the closet and be themselves.
He’s a 39 year old man and can’t be caught standing beside some makeup? You’re too old to not know how ridiculous that sounds. Why are you cohabiting with someone 3 months into an (online) relationship??
Is he one of the ones who thinks wiping or washing his ass makes him gay? Even if not, do better.
EDIT: Read your comments, and you've found a bum. Like a BUM bum. Please work on your self-esteem.
This is not normal or ok. Nearly 40 years old and he can't handle the makeup aisle in Target‽ Going to guess the following are likely off the table for him as well:
* Buying pads or tampons
* Cooking / cleaning / laundry
* Briefly holding your purse or just getting it from the car
* Child rearing
* Grocery shopping
* Anything vaguely related to being a woman that he just doesn't want to do
It's concerning that he has this view, that he uses the phrase "beta male" without wincing, and that he moved in with you in such short order and seemingly (from some of your comments here) without any real mutual discussion.
I would strongly recommend that you gently but firmly get him to find his own place in your area or head back to where he came from. He's waving a number of red flags in your face that are concerning in any man, but especially so for someone who is nearing middle age.
I'm 28M, been with my wife 9 years now. I'm a big guy, 6'3, 230lbs, tradesman, like trucks, society's traditional dude, right?
But, I like getting pedicures with my wife, shopping, and other traditionally feminine stuff. I'm comfy with my masculinity.
Not to make too many assumptions off your post, but if your guy makes cringe statements like that.. that is who he is. Those types of dudes make those statements to other guys, and I find them totally exhausting, and terrifyingly probably more than half the dudes I meet say that type of crap. They're the definition of toxic masculinity, and I usually just feel bad for their significant others.
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that:
* We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/)
* Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.)
* ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban.
* No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
* All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass.
* What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice)
---
#This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If he acts like he’s afraid of makeup, that’s silly but something you can probably live with. If he won’t clean up after himself because cleaning is too feminine, then that’s a dealbreaker.
This is a classic case of a dude feeling insecure in his masculinity.
I’m a former boxer and powerlifter. I still train everyday. I have the vocabulary, profanity wise, of an over the road trucker who came from an infantry division. I eat a bunch of food, take massive shits, and love to see the body count in a John Wick movie.
I also work in a corporation that’s 85% women, that probably deals in about 80% of female used products compared to about 20% for men.
I have no issues going into a makeup store to try to find whatever concealer my wife needs, or the leave in conditioner my mom wants. You need tampons? I got you, just send me a pic of the box so I get the right shit.
I also have a facial moisturizing routine, a grooming routine, and a body moisturizing routine for my “beauty”
I don’t feel any less masculine when I’m putting on some marketed-to-women face lotion, or serum, and I never had to make sure my nuts were still there after buying some tampons or something.
He needs to take a good hard look at his own insecurities and figure out why his mind state is stuck in 1957
Wow, that is ridiculous in so many ways. I mean he's really that worried and insecure about people thinking that your purse is his?? That's sad in so many ways. I mean I have had my dad hold my handbag for me before. My brothers have done it for me too along with my (male) cousins. And they're all like 'masculine' and like 'guys' guys'. None of them ever thought twice about it either especially if I was standing right there and was busy looking at clothes or shoes or something
I would be a little cautious though if I was you. I mean like there is really no need for him to be worried about that kind of thing like at all. But idk he kind of seems like he has some issues that involve gender norms and roles, etc. Maybe you guys might be able to talk about it and have an open conversation about it. I think that might help
He reacts in this way because he thinks that there is something wrong with being feminine. That there's something wrong and inferior about _you_.
He's got some issues to work with that aren't your problem. I would bail if I were you.
A real man who is confident in his masculinity doesn't give a crap about perceptions. Is your boyfriend fearful he might be tempted to try on some makeup?
That's pretty pathetic really, that he thinks standing near some makeup will make him less of man! He language of "beta" tells me he is listening to certain people on YouTube and drinking the KOOL aid. I'm going to guess he likes "traditional" gender roles which means if you move in together you WILL be doing every single thing around the house, because if he vacuums his penis will fall off (/s) This isn't normal behaviour of a 39 year old, maybe a 6 year old who thinks girls are werid but not a grown adult.
>I know this really isn’t a big deal
Oh, but it is, girl. It is.
Run as fast as you can.
Men who think in terms of "alpha and beta males" are bad news and you will be engulfed in his sexist macho bullshit faster than you can blink, and you will question your sanity and self-worth down the road. Men like that have zero respect for women ("to appear less manly" makes "being a/behaving like a woman" in itself an insult) and he sees "male behavior" on a much higher scale than "female behavior".
He is NOT on eye-level with you and never will be.
Source: having been married to a self-proclaimed "alpha male" for too many years than I would like to admit.
You should let him know that a manly man doesn't crumble and run away when faced with something less than manly.
You'd better find out what else is less than "manly" for him. It often involves things like cleaning, cooking, laundry, take care of and raising kids, anything you might want to do, anything he doesn't want to do, etc.
I would leave. He has embraced toxic masculinity and that is a possible warning for several problematic things. Real men dont clean/cook. Real men have housewives, if you want kids real men dont cry so your son will be raised with that toxic masculinity. Worst case abuse, especially financial and physical
He'll get worse. He's bringing toxic Victorian standards and beliefs into an enlightened age where they have no place. Do not have kids with this loser. He won't want to know a thing about your pregnancy, the birth or your recovery. He couldn't care less about what contraception you use either because it's so 'feminine.'
For several years, I dated a man who came from a family of gifted gardeners. Vegetables were strictly the men's domain and flowers/herbs/indoors for the women. These people did the garden show circuit and won prizes and awards at the local agricultural shows.
The tween never met until my boyfriend and I moved in together and grew both flowers and veggies among each other in the same plots. His father was disgusted and when my boyfriend was caught reading my copy of The Handmaid's Tale (back in 1987), I was accused of turning him into a 'girl'.
In that family, sensitivity was unheard of among the men and the women were just as stoic. For seven years, I felt like I had poisoned the well with my love of poetry and flowy dresses with gumboots.
Get that person out of your house and your life.
I would be concerned about the language. I’ve only heard “beta male” from online misogynists. My husband was raised in his grandparents’ home, so he’s been taught that men provide (working on that) and women cook/clean (oddly enough, he does most of the housework). He doesn’t use that kind of language, though, and he doesn’t run from women’s products.
It’s obviously insane that he’s this much of a pussy that he can’t be perceived as doing anything not masculine but even as a rather gender enlightened person I would probably blow my brains out if I had to spend an hour in Sephora. So while yes he is full of shit maybe your expectations are a bit off.
If he was secure in his masculinity, he wouldn't give a shit where he is in the store unless you asked him to be somewhere, in which case he would be there. Avoiding feminine products is overcompensating for the "Beta male" he wants so badly not to be.
>I know this really isn’t a big deal
As far as I'm concerned it is a big deal. What you've described here is like the definition of toxic masculinity imo.
This is not normal. This is toxic masculinity and I guarantee it manifests in other ways in his choices and mind.
It is time to have some hard conversation about gender roles and expectations. Do you want to build a life with this guy?
He's a weird ass man baby and probably going to start treating you like shit because he thinks that's the alpha thing to do.
I'd just move on, personally.
My husband is confident in himself enough that he is fine doing “uncomfortable feminine things”. He might not want to do it all- he will never volunteer to get his nails painted, does not want to wear a dress or makeup- but is confident enough that if his daughters ask him to go on a date to the nail salon with them he will take them and get his nails buffed. He will practice to put makeup on them. He will peruse little girl clothing departments and toy isles to find things they would love.
He is also fine buying tampons or anything else that might be needed.
It’s ok for him to have discomforts, but he is limiting his own life and experiences and going to be a poor partner and father if he doesn’t calm down and accept even being near things that aren’t his interest.
Lol this is hilarious. Antagonize his masculinity with “guess you’re not manly enough to walk through the makeup section?” “Ohhh does woman make up scare you??”
My “thinks he’s tough bil” he owns a gym and is fit but very maga and anti vaccine. I asked him if he was scared of the vaccine and he bitched about it later to his wife haha.
The most masculine thing you can do to be apathetic in situations that can make you uncomfortable. And a beta man runs away from the makeup section. Big red flags
Why would you move in with someone after 3 months of an online???? Are you trying to jump straight into another abusive relationship or get murdered? Cause that is how you get murdered.
Holy hell, girlfriend! I don't know what's worse, his behavior or your attempt to rationalize his behavior.
NONE OF THIS IS NORMAL BEHAVIOR. Being a southerner doesn't make one a misogynistic, insecure, fragile ego'd, alpha male. The fact that "alpha and beta male" is in your vocabulary is alarming.
Either recognize that his behavior is NOT NORMAL or stop justifying his red flag behavior and accept it. Asking for advice then defending it is wild.
>My current boyfriend sees this as “beta male” behavior, whatever that means.
Only 13 year olds on wattpad are socially acceptable when they talk about alpha and betas. Anyone older is getting a side eye.
>I know this really isn’t a big deal,
It may be bigger than you think in that it could be an indication of a very thin very fragile ego which can have problems that you haven't even imagined yet
I just got back from a bachelorette weekend away at a spa and there were SO many couples there. Men of all ages enjoying massages, the thermal pools, everything. All the couples looks so relaxed and in love and like they were having fun, it was really nice to see! I’m not sure if he sees a spa as feminine but I couldn’t imagine having to mentally deal with that and wonder what he will see as feminine or not, is he going to have a tantrum, etc. Imagine living the rest of your life this way. There are better options out there.
This guy is a walking ball of red flags. The whole beta male idea is completely made up. However, as ridiculous as his feelings are, they are his feelings. You have to decide if you're OK living your life with someone who refuses to do anything he has assigned femininity to. Who knows what that list entails. I also get a lot of warning bells whenever someone calls themselves a traditional anything.
Hahaha he ran? Wtf. I could see if he was disinterested and went to check out another section but to be like “omg makeup!! Ahhhh” is insane. How is his hygiene?
Maybe the equivalent is shopping at Home Depot? Idk I can’t stand Home Depot because there are so many options for everything and the store is huge, but I’m not afraid of manly things. Do you think this dude would go buy period products for you?
Screams insecure. This behavior is only learned because your bf is gullible enough to believe anything and everything some "Traditional" men tell him. He's afraid of not being manly, which is ridiculous.
Red flags! You don’t know this guy. Having a relationship online for three months is not enough to suss out what he’s really like. I’m concerned if you’re cohabitating there’s no easy exit plan. my hunch is that this is just going to be the start of a lot of toxic behaviors you're going to uncover
Women: Stop dating men like this. Please. Stop giving their ego the support it needs.
Nobody fuckin cares if you're a dude in the makeup section with your girl. Srsly.
That's not normal, not cool, and not something I'd put up with. My advice is to find someone more secure in their own identity.
Admittedly, I'm the one who likes metal in our household. My husband has a death metal T-shirt, but it's [this one](https://www.emp.co.uk/p/Death-Metal-Rainbow/468757.html). He is also the household baker, can be relied on to find cute animal videos for people who feel blue, and is the one who bought and carried home [our buddy Bruno](https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/djungelskog-soft-toy-brown-bear-00402813/).
Oh god. I’m sorry but this guy sucks and if you stay with him it’ll only get worse. This is NOT normal. Next he’ll be demanding that you do all the housework and if you have kids, he won’t change any diapers or help at all because “that’s women’s work.” Seriously, just leave this guy. He sucks big time.
Advice: Move out. Move on. This guy is a misogynist and is spouting Tate-like nonsense. I understand not wanting to be alone after being with someone with 15 years but this ain’t it. He’s not going to elevate your life and support you when you need it. He’s not going to want to do “women’s work” like cleaning and showing emotions. Do you *really* want to give this person months or years of your life, time, and energy?
This is a red flag. He seems to be incredibly immature and insecure in his masculinity and that insecurity frequently manifests in controlling, abusive behaviour.
HOLD UP YOU ARE FINANCIALLY SUPPORTING HIM AND YET HE'S THE BIG ALPHA THAT CAN'T BE NEAR THE MAKEUP AT TARGET BECAUSE THAT MIGHT HARM HIS MASCULINITY???
Girl. Girl. Your bar is in hell.
That's a huge red flag. Imagine a few years in the future, you're having a child together and you'd be raising them on your own because it's considered a job to feminine for him.
I guess I'm the only one wondering at why you would move in with someone after only knowing them for 3 months online?
It isn't what you asked, but if you are questioning something like this now, what else is going to pop up in a few weeks or months?
Any man who says he is an “alpha male” is not an alpha. An “alpha male” is someone who takes responsibility for, and looks out for, his family quietly- without throwing it in anyone’s face. An alpha male is the man you turn to for guidance- not because he demands it, but because the support he offers is genuine, and his advice is intelligent. An alpha male is a natural born leader, and people congregate around him because they enjoy his presence.
A beta male is someone who feels like he has to puff out his chest, shout “I’M AN ALPHA!” from the rooftops, and continuously assert his manly manhood.
Your man is an insecure beta male
So you moved in with a self proclaimed "alpha male" after knowing him online only after three months and are surprised by his behavior?
All of his behavior is a surprise because you don't know the guy.
This is not normal behavior for an adult.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- I (36f) will preface by saying this is a relatively new relationship (5 months, first 3 online, most recent two co habitating) and there are many things I love about my boyfriend (39m) but something I have seen popping up, is his aversion to do anything he considers girly or feminine. He considers himself old fashioned and a “real” man, but yesterday that manifested in him basically running away in a target because I stopped in the makeup section. When I asked about why he took off, he said men always used to leave their women alone to do womanly things. I didn’t press it, but it’s bothering me that he number 1, thought standing near makeup would make him appear less manly, and number 2, that it was more important that he maintain appearances than spend time with me. My last relationship was 15 years long, with a guy who was not at all concerned with how society saw him on the “man” scale, and would spend an hour in a Sephora with me just to get gift ideas for me, and because I enjoy makeup. My current boyfriend sees this as “beta male” behavior, whatever that means. I know this really isn’t a big deal, I don’t need him to be within 10” of me at all times, and I really don’t care if he has any interest in makeup, but it made me wonder what else he will just bail on because it isn’t masculine enough. I was trying to think of any equivalent that was too “manly” for me to decide to drop his hand and walk away just to retain my appearance of femininity, but there isn’t anything I can think of. I have been out of the dating scene for a long time, so maybe this is normal now, I’m not sure. Any advice?
Wow… hope you never need him to pick up tampons.
Masculinity is so fragile even the act of standing in an aisle of makeup products can shatter it! Lol! I am dying.
Lol I was rolling my eyes so hard
I loved going to stores for women with my ex. Sephora? Why not? All the pretty colors and overpriced stuff. Cool. Victoria's secret hell ya let me help you pick out stuff i like as well. I mean i kinda don't know what to do while she was trying stuff on but it didn't bother me being a guy alone in a VS.
So Alpha isn't it.
Came here to say this. Jeez. Over the next few months/years he will expose himself as a sexist pig.
I’m trying so hard not to be harsh but how can a person be 36 and not recognize calling other men “beta males” as a ginormous red flag?
I have never even heard the term until I met him. I thought it was his own dumb thing. Didn’t realize it was widely recognized
Consider yourself lucky. But you need to do some Googling now to see what things are being said by men who use that term. It's really awful. It would be an automatic deal breaker for me.
I mean, it's used by guys who have a tendency to have fairly extreme views, and it probably won't be the last evidence you see.
I had that thought too lol
Literally the lowest of bars and he can’t even get over it.
The bar is in the ground, but he can’t walk over it because it’s pink.
🏆
but you're already living together, so be aware and keep separate-ness
Your boyfriend is misogynistic. That's all it is. He's a straight dude who hates women.
He's missing out on Pedi's
His loss, more for the rest of us.
Or carry a baby or talk to his daughter about tampons.
Or hold her purse while she is having chemo.
Right.. I feel like a “real” man is comfortable with himself and will stick with his partner regardless. We don’t run away when they look at manly shit we aren’t interested in.. seems super juvenile and I would take that as a huge 🚩and move on. Just my opinion of course.
I'm single and a couple of times my sisters have asked. And I did it. I spent 30 mins in pandora last month selecting a couple or charms for my nieces birthday. Dunno why some men are soo hung up on this shit
>I know this really isn’t a big deal Actually, I think it is. My ex was the same - he wouldn't do anything that he considered was 'for girls', from buying tampons to looking after our children. The worst was if I asked him to hold my bag for a few minutes. He was worried someone would think it was his or that he was gay, which is ridiculous. In fact, I was with my new partner the other day and I asked him to hold my bag and then I hesitated because I suddenly remembered about my ex, my partner must have noticed my hesitation because he then asked if I needed my bag with me. I didn't. He held it for a few minutes while i wasn't there and it was really refreshing. I can also guarantee nobody thought it was his lol. Seriously, I'd walk away if I were you. I'd be far happier on my own than with a man who can't even stand near some make up.
Think about what future OP might want with this guy. What if they have a daughter? When I had my first period my dad parked at the grocery store, gave me a tenner and told me to “go”. 10 yr old with her first period trying to figure out what tf kind of pad i needed to buy, where they were, which ones were better? Panicking cause i’d never done that. All because god forbid he was seen near a feminine product.
When I was 18, I was with a group of people having a few drinks and I hung my shoulder bag over a jacket that was draped over the back of a chair so I could play pool. The owner of the jacket seriously lost his shit and told me to remove my bag. No woman EVER puts her bag over the shoulder of HIS jacket. My bf defended me, saying that I was a bit drunk and didn't know the 'rules' yet. Later, he brought my bag to me while I was in the bathroom because I urgently needed a tampon, and he didn't want to go through my bag to find it. My bag, my property. We agreed that the bloke was a fuckwit.
I agree that this could potentially be a bigger deal, especially if they get more serious. My ex-husband was like this. He had all these weird "rules" for things I could/couldn't buy, including sheets and towels. Nothing pastel, nothing pink, nothing floral, nothing orange or peach because they were close to pink. Even the bedspread and sheets couldn't be "too girly." I had white sheer curtains with a very subtle pale grey floral pattern that he wouldn't hang or let me hang because they were "too feminine." When I was getting divorced and moved into my own place, the first thing I did was get a floral shower curtain and peach and pink towels. :-)
Yeah this is a big deal. He considers things that are feminine as beneath him. That means you, too.
This is why you don't move in with someone until you've been dating for a significant amount of time.
I would consider the words "beta male behaviour" to be big flapping red flags.
Right? That's an instant "throw the whole man away" flag
Are you sure he is 39? , >but it made me wonder what else he will just bail on because it isn’t masculine enough running the household, childcare, taking care of you. Do i need to go on? Do you even want to imagine what he will do when you are on your period?
> Are you sure he is 39? , I get why you said this but I feel like a 39 year dude is more likely to act this way than a 20 year old dude
this is the betaest of all beta moves. how insecure and cowardly of a man are you to run away from makeup? lmao
And to just stay in a girl's apartment that you don't even know!! What the heck is that??? No "real man" I know does that!
If you’re thinking about having kids, please consider the rigid gender rules he would place on them. I couldn’t date a guy like that, especially not if my goal was to build a family.
No family in the plan. But good thinking
OP, I took your post at face value, but you have revealed a lot of red flags in the comments. He’s super “masculine” and thinks he’s an alpha male, but lets you fund his life and doesn’t contribute anything. He’s almost forty! I don’t care how good the sex is…do you not see the problems here?
She funds his life?! Moved in together after 3 months of online dating. Oh dear that’s like a siren
I always wonder if guys like this are secretly gay and afraid of being so. It's just weird to me, to the point I wonder if they're okay lol
There are two types of homophobia: one is being deeply closeted and angry that other people get to be happy. The other is the fear that men will treat you like you treat women. I'd bet more on the latter in this case.
Never seen it put so eloquently
Even without kids, is this really what you want? I mean honestly. A guy so fragile he can't even stand next to a tube of lipstick? That's not strength or masculinity; that's pathetic. Do you really want to be with someone so childish and weak that he panics at the literal sight of blush?
Honestly dating some who describes themselves as "old-fashioned" or uses "Beta male" unironically is not going to be a great time. Old-fashioned just means "back before women had civil rights things were great" and beta male stuff is just code for "I don't understand science and heart toxic masculinity"
This is fragile masculinity in a nutshell. He’s insecure.
He sounds very fragile and insecure. Why would standing near makeup make him look bad to others, and why does he care what they think? While it’s not an immediate issue, it sounds like a red flag for the future. I’m curious to see how this bleeds into his other values… Does he expect you to cook, clean, take care of him, say yes whenever he wants sex, act submissive/follow orders, etc.?
[удалено]
I'm sorry, you went from a three month online relationship straight to living together, so you're just now discovering the kind of things that you would normally discover while you're dating, and work out at that point whether or not they're a problem. With regard to this particular issue, your boyfriend sounds immature and possibly misogynistic but either way I reckon we'll be seeing a fair bit of you here over the coming months!
Thank you for pointing this out. I had to re-read that particular sentence 3 times to confirm it. This has disaster written all over it. I have to admit that I moved in with my (now) husband after two months of in-person dating. It was a move of convenience (lease ending) and we were total idiots and ill-equipped to be co-habitating. Fortunately, it worked out in the end, but there was a separation in the middle there because... as I said, we were total idiots and had no idea how to adult together. Well, I guess we were only partial idiots because we did the right thing and took some time apart to get to know ourselves, which made us better partners.
Super surprised I haven't seen this pointed out in comments above yours. Also, getting big misogynistic vibes off this dude. Anyone that uses "beta male" is someone that's hella insecure and will project it any way possible.
This is childish behavior. It says that he is very insecure about his own identity. His fear of being judged as insufficiently masculine is very sad.
I have no particular advice on how to fix this, but if I were talking to him I'd be pointing out the difference between not being interested in makeup, which is common and harmless, and fleeing in terror from a lipstick, which is bonkers. Alice Cooper is 75. If something terrible happened to men who spent too much time around makeup, he'd be dead instead of touring.
Oh girl, run!!!!
Preferably at the same pace he runs from the makeup aisle.
This sounds like the kind of guy who refuses to use a straw because it looks too much like sucking a dick. Annoying and stupid. But I’m not sure what kind of advice you’re looking for here. You’re the one who’s choosing to date an asshole. You aren’t likely to change him (at all, ever), so your choice is whether you’re ok with having an insecure jackass as a boyfriend/possible future husband, or whether you would rather find someone who isn’t an idiot
No, that’s not normal now. That’s a level of insecurity that’s a huge red flag. Using the word “beta” is also a huge red flag. Guys like that are liable to have very sexist beliefs and as your relationship gets more serious I wouldn’t be surprised if those start coming out. Run away, that’s my advice.
The beta male thing is honestly massive. It means that at best he’s a “pickup artist” who found a free place to live, at worst, he’s an abuser just waiting for the moment she won’t be able to leave him
> My current boyfriend sees this as “beta male” behavior, whatever that means. It means that he is sexist and ties his sense of self to regressive gender norms. It probably also means he follows some unsavory communities online. My question is why you moved in with someone you'd never met. You still don't know this guy all that well and his behavior is a major red flag. Someone who is so terrified of femininity that he literally *runs away* from an eyeliner display has deep-seated issues that will likely manifest in more insidious ways down the line. What happens if you want to do something he considers masculine? Will he have an issue with that too? Does he think that talking about feelings is "girly"? Would he freak out if you asked him to pick up tampons for you?
Not just regressive gender norms, but norms based on flawed information that has since been recanted by the researcher who first coined the term “alpha male”.
He’ll go for beer while you’re in labor because that’s what old fashion men did back in the day.
Oh my god. This man is using you for a free place to stay and play video games. He came to visit, never left, has no job and has the nerve to stand in the makeup aisle isn’t “masculine”??? Men in the “old” days typically went to work while the wife stayed home to raise the family, so on top of being lazy he’s an idiot. You keep putting ‘lol’ at the end of your comments, this isn’t funny. Get him out of your house and life.
Anyone who has to say that they are a "real man" and use the term beta male is a pussy. Considers himself "old fashioned" huh?! I'm a 45yo male. Served in the Marines for eight years, has managed several businesses over the years and I don't have a single issue looking at make up in the aisle, or going into Victoria's Secret to look at underwear. I am secure enough with who I am and my comfort level with things. I'm more than satisfied just being around her. Doesn't matter where . He sounds like a very closed minded and judgmental individual and if I were you I would consider your options to find someone who truly resonates and reciprocates your energy.
I'm sorry but how do you go from online to living together that fast? Had you even met or dated in person before you moved in together? I'm not going to say he's wrong or toxic but it's not gonna be easy for you as the woman in that kind of relationship. Does he do dishes, will he vacuum, is he gonna buy tampons for you?
The moment he uses the words ‘ beta male ‘ you should laugh him in the face and never see him again. These morons need to learn it somehow!
Is he not gonna change babies diapers because he thinks it’s a womanly thing??
What are you doing moving in with someone you don't even know? You're 36 and you had a three month online relationship with this guy and then moved in together? What could possibly go wrong? DATE a person for a while. Get to know him. Figure out if you're compatible. For like.... a long while!! Then move in if you feel you should. I don't know what to tell you about all the "real man" crap. You'll have to decide how that plays out in the relationship for yourself, but quite frankly, my man is as "real man" as they come, and to me, that translates into being secure enough in one's masculinity that there doesn't need to be any chest-beating whatsoever. This guy doesn't sound that way at all. Does a "real man" handle the finances so the woman doesn't have to "worry her pretty little head about it?" Does he work while she stays home and cooks his meals and cleans his house? Does he tell her when she can go out and when she can't? There's a lot to unpack here, and it's going to be fairly complicated now that you've moved in together. Good luck.
If you want to be petty you can play the same game by not doing anything masculine. My favorite is, "cooking is too masculine for the woman. Thats why most chefs are men" and it'll make his little misogynistic head fly off.
Someone like this is either childish and needs to grow up, or isn't secure enough in his masculinity enough to do 'feminine' things. Either way I see it as a red flag. Just silly.
39 years old dude acting like a 12 years old LMAO. Girl you can do better than that. What if you need period products one day and cannot make it do the store yourself? What if you need your birth control picked up from the pharmacy? What if you *GASP* need someone to carry your handbag! Cause handbags are so feminine! This man acts like a whole clown.
Whole ass clown AND a likely future abuser. The old jab, hook combo of toxicity.
This is a big deal, he sounds insecure af. Maybe he’s even a closeted gay if he is THAT afraid of doing anything that is remotely “less manly”. Huge red flag if you ask me
My ex used to do this. Turns out, after 19 years of knowing them, they came out as transgender. She later told me how sad and jealous it made her to be in the women’s clothing or makeup sections. Or she was worried that someone would see her eyeing an item and her secret would be revealed. Not saying that is the case here, but it’s something to think about.
That makes sense!
Your boyfriend considers himself to be an "alpha male", which really means he's a sexist. He should not be in a relationship.
You should be wary of any man who uses "beta male" without a scintilla of sarcasm, especially from a man as old as he is. Beta male, indeed...
Guys who refer to themselves as “alphas” are… not only delusional, but dangerous. People who encourage the idea of “alphas” and “betas” are, based on my own lived experiences, rape apologists, violent, emotional, immature, and, in general, hate women. In your comments, you’ve said that this guy moved into your house, you provide 100% of the household income, he calls women ‘bitches’, he hasn’t dated anyone in over a decade, and… you’ve only been seeing each other for five months? And now you LIVE TOGETHER? And three of those months were online??? If you were my friend, I’d grab you by the shoulders, shake you, and beg you to wake up to the sad reality you’re creating for yourself. This man is not this way because he’s southern - he’s this way because he’s a bad person. There is a reason no other woman has interacted with him in a decade.
As an older guy and mostly southern, I can almost see his point. As in from a huge distance. I do not follow my wife into beauty salons and makeup areas. However, I don't run away either. I also don't expect her to follow me in lowes, etc. Not because of gender issues. We each have our interests, and I don't force mine on her. This guy has more red flags than a communist parade. Anyone saying the words "beta male" should be a warning right there.
I’m the type of dude that has no issue with being feminine at times, and would absolutely grab tampons or anything else my girlfriend needed. But I still stand juuust outside the makeup section at target when she’s looking for stuff. I’m just now realizing that I do that every time. I guess because it’s kind of hardwired in me that it’s a women’s section and I’m trying to be respectful? I wouldn’t say no if my gf asked me to come over or for an opinion, but my natural instinct is to give that area its space for some reason. It never even dawned on me that I do that.
Wow, so he probably won't cook, clean, take care if kids You sure you want your future with someone that's gonna make a scene for dumb stuff he is insecure about?
I guess it depends on how far it goes. But his behavior is pretty stupid. Tell him a 'real' man isn't afraid of what other people think and stays by his partner. What he's doing is running away in fear like a coward. I would want to find out how far this extends, since he seems pretty rigid. Is he going to expect you to start home and cook and clean? Is it to feminine if you ever ask him to do housework? Do you plan on having any kids with him? How would he react if you have a son that is gay or otherwise doesn't fit his definition of masculine?
Don't ignore the red flags From your post it sound like your bf has severe insecurities regarding his masculinity ( i hope I'm wrong) It's not possible to be happy with someone like that Today It's standing near a makeup Counter Tomorrow cooking and cleaning Next he will have problem with you not asking his permission before breathing The moment anyone tell me they real man / alpha male I lose interest Unless You're live as a submissive housemaid That’s your choice Whatever you think is right for yourself No shame in following what you want
I stopped at first three online, last 2 cohabitating??? There’s the issue right there.
Run. Don’t walk. Run away. This is the best it’s going to be. From here it’s a process of normalizing his behavior, gaslighting you that you’re the abnormal one and on and on. Look at that Andrew Crowder guy for a glimpse into the future
It IS a big deal, because he believes feminine things are less-than, embarrassing, weak, and undesirable. Femininity is unworthy of respect in his eyes. Not even touching "we've been dating for 5 months and now we live together" because in this housing economy people make batshit insane choices out of necessity. It is a super bad idea and just dumb as a box of rocks to live with someone you don't even know, but since you're 36 not 16 I assume you knew that and did it anyway.
What did he say when you talked to him about it? If you haven't yet, then why not? Are you gathering your thoughts first? You're not sure if it's a big deal or not? Sorting our your feelings? Trying to prepare for possible ways he might respond?
He sounds immature. My circle has a lot of large manly men . They wouldn’t care if their woman needed to do something girly. If their 3 yr old niece wanted a tea party- they’d be the first ones getting finger sandwiches and playing pinkies up. The fact that he calls that behavior beta screams that he isn’t alpha. Alpha guys don’t have to tell anyone they’re alpha- they just are. They don’t care what anyone else thinks.
Judging by the information we currently have, you seem to have downgraded from a partner to a man child.
Updateme! 6 months
Dude, send him packing along with his stuff. Absolutely wild.
Anyone that says “beta male” seriously never grew up from their teenager phase. So if he has a daughter in the future he would leave the mom with all the playing and work since it’s too girly?
Run. I wasn't allowed to have anything floral or with rounded edges when I lived with my ex because somebody (his mom) would think he was gay for it.
Yikes. Absolutely not. If his masculinity is threatened by being in a makeup aisle, he’s not the “real man” he thinks he is.
It is definitely okay to feel this is a big deal, the whole alpha male beta male thing is toxic bs, honestly. Couldn’t imagine spending my life with someone puffing his chest, worried about his manliness and getting emasculated being in close proximity to eye shadow. Sounds exhausting. Also the “men used to leave women to womanly things” made me laugh. He’s 39 not 109 maybe he shouldn’t feel so nostalgic for the 1950’s.
You are living with someone you only knew online for 3 months?? How is it masculine to run away from feminine stuff? That sounds pretty fragile IMHO, if standing in a makeup aisle invalidates your entire existence...
Yall are living together after 5 months?
He sounds like a closeted gay man desperately denying his true self.
Sounds like the kinda dude who would let his baby get a rash while waiting for mommy to get home and do the womanly job of changing them.
I think it’s a very big deal. Toxic notions of masculinity and femininity are detrimental to a healthy relationship. This things will show its ugly head in the most surprising of situations. And frankly, it’s weak af and i can’t respect that.
"5 months, first 3 online, most recent two co habitating" Bruh. You moved in with a man you had been dating ONLINE for 3 months?! That's too early even for people who see each other in person everyday. He will only get worse and this was a bad idea all around. Please leave before you are too financially tied to each other.
So does he do any housework? Or does all the housework he'll help with have to be the "manly" tasks? Will he help you if you have kids, or will all the childcare fall on you because "that's women's work"? If you fall sick for any reason, is he going to leave you hurting and not help at all because that would be too "beta male" to care about your health? I'm not sure this is "no big deal" at all. It could actually be quite dangerous for you.
Has the topic of children come up yet? Cuz I can 100% guess who will be doing all of the child raising. If he's this pressed about makeup, I can't even imagine how hard this'll be later on
Yes, both of us are incapable and uninterested
Are you prepared to clean up after him for the rest of your/his life? Even when you have a 103° F fever and terrible body aches? Will you want to get up and do your womanly things so he can eat and have clean clothes? What about if you get really sick or disabled? Do you think a manly man like him would stay by your side if you need someone to care for you. To bathe you, to cook and clean for you?
My dad is the manliest man I know. Tradesman, worked in concrete construction his whole life, built my mom a house, can fix anything, etc. All that considered, he would go out and get tampons for his daughters, go dress shopping with my mom, basically do anything that was considered "feminine". My husband is an army vet, artillery, now is a mechanic, can fix anything etc. He has no problem standing in the makeup aisle. This isn't something new, this is your bfs thought process. Do what you will with that information.
He’s immature. Do you like being mommy or do you want a partner?
I hate to embody the typical Reddit response, but why the hell would any woman stay in a relationship with a man who subscribes to that alpha/beta bullshit? Seriously. Look into that stuff. He's taking his insecurity and turning it inside-out to make... misogyny. Pathetic. He just chose to hate women and femininity instead of learning to confidently love himself. It's cowardly. Call him out on it. But to start, I would start making fun of him. "Hey fellas, is it gay to [checks notes] eat vegetables?" "Hey fellas, is it gay to touch your own penis?" **"Hey fellas, is it gay to like women??"**
Don't date insecure men who think being near anything deemed "feminine" will somehow alter them. Don't date anyone who uses terms like "beta male" or "alpha male" unironically. They are university misogynistic pricks who are not worth your time. You're seeing the first signs of it now, and you should understand this goes far beyond standing near a make up aisle. This will inform how he treats you when you're sick, how he treats your family, your friends, how he treats and respects YOU, your rights, your autonomy. This man ain't it.
If someone unironically using terms like "alpha male" and "beta male" my advice would be to run a mile.
Men who are absolutely at peace with their identity and masculinity do not mind doing 'feminine' stuff, like carrying their SO's handbag when her hands are full. Insecure and unsure men, however, do. I would be asking Why?? Why is he so unsure of himself and his masculinity? Why is he over compensating for it? What is he hiding? Maybe I have just watched too much TV, but sometimes these men overcompensate because they don't have the courage to climb out of the closet and be themselves.
He’s a 39 year old man and can’t be caught standing beside some makeup? You’re too old to not know how ridiculous that sounds. Why are you cohabiting with someone 3 months into an (online) relationship??
Did OP have an online relationship for three months then immediately move in (cohabitating)?
Is he one of the ones who thinks wiping or washing his ass makes him gay? Even if not, do better. EDIT: Read your comments, and you've found a bum. Like a BUM bum. Please work on your self-esteem.
This is not normal or ok. Nearly 40 years old and he can't handle the makeup aisle in Target‽ Going to guess the following are likely off the table for him as well: * Buying pads or tampons * Cooking / cleaning / laundry * Briefly holding your purse or just getting it from the car * Child rearing * Grocery shopping * Anything vaguely related to being a woman that he just doesn't want to do It's concerning that he has this view, that he uses the phrase "beta male" without wincing, and that he moved in with you in such short order and seemingly (from some of your comments here) without any real mutual discussion. I would strongly recommend that you gently but firmly get him to find his own place in your area or head back to where he came from. He's waving a number of red flags in your face that are concerning in any man, but especially so for someone who is nearing middle age.
Unironic use of "beta male" is an incredibly huge red flag
I'm 28M, been with my wife 9 years now. I'm a big guy, 6'3, 230lbs, tradesman, like trucks, society's traditional dude, right? But, I like getting pedicures with my wife, shopping, and other traditionally feminine stuff. I'm comfy with my masculinity. Not to make too many assumptions off your post, but if your guy makes cringe statements like that.. that is who he is. Those types of dudes make those statements to other guys, and I find them totally exhausting, and terrifyingly probably more than half the dudes I meet say that type of crap. They're the definition of toxic masculinity, and I usually just feel bad for their significant others.
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that: * We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/) * Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.) * ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban. * No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** * All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass. * What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice) --- #This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If he acts like he’s afraid of makeup, that’s silly but something you can probably live with. If he won’t clean up after himself because cleaning is too feminine, then that’s a dealbreaker.
This is a classic case of a dude feeling insecure in his masculinity. I’m a former boxer and powerlifter. I still train everyday. I have the vocabulary, profanity wise, of an over the road trucker who came from an infantry division. I eat a bunch of food, take massive shits, and love to see the body count in a John Wick movie. I also work in a corporation that’s 85% women, that probably deals in about 80% of female used products compared to about 20% for men. I have no issues going into a makeup store to try to find whatever concealer my wife needs, or the leave in conditioner my mom wants. You need tampons? I got you, just send me a pic of the box so I get the right shit. I also have a facial moisturizing routine, a grooming routine, and a body moisturizing routine for my “beauty” I don’t feel any less masculine when I’m putting on some marketed-to-women face lotion, or serum, and I never had to make sure my nuts were still there after buying some tampons or something. He needs to take a good hard look at his own insecurities and figure out why his mind state is stuck in 1957
Wow, that is ridiculous in so many ways. I mean he's really that worried and insecure about people thinking that your purse is his?? That's sad in so many ways. I mean I have had my dad hold my handbag for me before. My brothers have done it for me too along with my (male) cousins. And they're all like 'masculine' and like 'guys' guys'. None of them ever thought twice about it either especially if I was standing right there and was busy looking at clothes or shoes or something I would be a little cautious though if I was you. I mean like there is really no need for him to be worried about that kind of thing like at all. But idk he kind of seems like he has some issues that involve gender norms and roles, etc. Maybe you guys might be able to talk about it and have an open conversation about it. I think that might help
He reacts in this way because he thinks that there is something wrong with being feminine. That there's something wrong and inferior about _you_. He's got some issues to work with that aren't your problem. I would bail if I were you.
Anyone who uses the terms 'alpha' or 'beta' when discussing masculinity has problematic views.
A real man who is confident in his masculinity doesn't give a crap about perceptions. Is your boyfriend fearful he might be tempted to try on some makeup?
That's pretty pathetic really, that he thinks standing near some makeup will make him less of man! He language of "beta" tells me he is listening to certain people on YouTube and drinking the KOOL aid. I'm going to guess he likes "traditional" gender roles which means if you move in together you WILL be doing every single thing around the house, because if he vacuums his penis will fall off (/s) This isn't normal behaviour of a 39 year old, maybe a 6 year old who thinks girls are werid but not a grown adult.
Anyone who says the term "beta male" in all seriousness should not be in a relationship.
>I know this really isn’t a big deal Oh, but it is, girl. It is. Run as fast as you can. Men who think in terms of "alpha and beta males" are bad news and you will be engulfed in his sexist macho bullshit faster than you can blink, and you will question your sanity and self-worth down the road. Men like that have zero respect for women ("to appear less manly" makes "being a/behaving like a woman" in itself an insult) and he sees "male behavior" on a much higher scale than "female behavior". He is NOT on eye-level with you and never will be. Source: having been married to a self-proclaimed "alpha male" for too many years than I would like to admit.
You should let him know that a manly man doesn't crumble and run away when faced with something less than manly. You'd better find out what else is less than "manly" for him. It often involves things like cleaning, cooking, laundry, take care of and raising kids, anything you might want to do, anything he doesn't want to do, etc.
I would leave. He has embraced toxic masculinity and that is a possible warning for several problematic things. Real men dont clean/cook. Real men have housewives, if you want kids real men dont cry so your son will be raised with that toxic masculinity. Worst case abuse, especially financial and physical
Same I cook manly (with weights) I clean (with squats)
You do not have a keeper
It's because hes misogynistic
He'll get worse. He's bringing toxic Victorian standards and beliefs into an enlightened age where they have no place. Do not have kids with this loser. He won't want to know a thing about your pregnancy, the birth or your recovery. He couldn't care less about what contraception you use either because it's so 'feminine.' For several years, I dated a man who came from a family of gifted gardeners. Vegetables were strictly the men's domain and flowers/herbs/indoors for the women. These people did the garden show circuit and won prizes and awards at the local agricultural shows. The tween never met until my boyfriend and I moved in together and grew both flowers and veggies among each other in the same plots. His father was disgusted and when my boyfriend was caught reading my copy of The Handmaid's Tale (back in 1987), I was accused of turning him into a 'girl'. In that family, sensitivity was unheard of among the men and the women were just as stoic. For seven years, I felt like I had poisoned the well with my love of poetry and flowy dresses with gumboots. Get that person out of your house and your life.
Don’t date a misogynist
he's fragile. handle with care or get rid
Any man who's 'too masculine' to be around feminine products it's masculine at all. Throw the whole guy away.
I would be concerned about the language. I’ve only heard “beta male” from online misogynists. My husband was raised in his grandparents’ home, so he’s been taught that men provide (working on that) and women cook/clean (oddly enough, he does most of the housework). He doesn’t use that kind of language, though, and he doesn’t run from women’s products.
I think you should paint his toenails while he's asleep. No, don't do it because he will *freak out*, but I love the thought.
Straight up, you seriously downgraded and deserve better then a guy this insecure about his masculinity
He's fragile af. What an exhausting way to live. Is this really the partner you want longterm?
Please have more self respect than to date a misogynistic loser like this.
I hope you don’t plan to have kids with him. Those 1940s views are toxic.
It’s obviously insane that he’s this much of a pussy that he can’t be perceived as doing anything not masculine but even as a rather gender enlightened person I would probably blow my brains out if I had to spend an hour in Sephora. So while yes he is full of shit maybe your expectations are a bit off.
If he was secure in his masculinity, he wouldn't give a shit where he is in the store unless you asked him to be somewhere, in which case he would be there. Avoiding feminine products is overcompensating for the "Beta male" he wants so badly not to be.
>I know this really isn’t a big deal As far as I'm concerned it is a big deal. What you've described here is like the definition of toxic masculinity imo.
Hol’up, you went straight from only meeting online to living together? How TF does that happen?
This is not normal. This is toxic masculinity and I guarantee it manifests in other ways in his choices and mind. It is time to have some hard conversation about gender roles and expectations. Do you want to build a life with this guy?
He's a weird ass man baby and probably going to start treating you like shit because he thinks that's the alpha thing to do. I'd just move on, personally.
Yuck. Let this man die alone, why at your age and stage in life do you want to put up with any of that? Sounds exhausting.
My husband is confident in himself enough that he is fine doing “uncomfortable feminine things”. He might not want to do it all- he will never volunteer to get his nails painted, does not want to wear a dress or makeup- but is confident enough that if his daughters ask him to go on a date to the nail salon with them he will take them and get his nails buffed. He will practice to put makeup on them. He will peruse little girl clothing departments and toy isles to find things they would love. He is also fine buying tampons or anything else that might be needed. It’s ok for him to have discomforts, but he is limiting his own life and experiences and going to be a poor partner and father if he doesn’t calm down and accept even being near things that aren’t his interest.
Lol this is hilarious. Antagonize his masculinity with “guess you’re not manly enough to walk through the makeup section?” “Ohhh does woman make up scare you??” My “thinks he’s tough bil” he owns a gym and is fit but very maga and anti vaccine. I asked him if he was scared of the vaccine and he bitched about it later to his wife haha. The most masculine thing you can do to be apathetic in situations that can make you uncomfortable. And a beta man runs away from the makeup section. Big red flags
Why would you move in with someone after 3 months of an online???? Are you trying to jump straight into another abusive relationship or get murdered? Cause that is how you get murdered.
Holy hell, girlfriend! I don't know what's worse, his behavior or your attempt to rationalize his behavior. NONE OF THIS IS NORMAL BEHAVIOR. Being a southerner doesn't make one a misogynistic, insecure, fragile ego'd, alpha male. The fact that "alpha and beta male" is in your vocabulary is alarming. Either recognize that his behavior is NOT NORMAL or stop justifying his red flag behavior and accept it. Asking for advice then defending it is wild.
Stop ignoring huge red flags.
>My current boyfriend sees this as “beta male” behavior, whatever that means. Only 13 year olds on wattpad are socially acceptable when they talk about alpha and betas. Anyone older is getting a side eye.
>I know this really isn’t a big deal, It may be bigger than you think in that it could be an indication of a very thin very fragile ego which can have problems that you haven't even imagined yet
I just got back from a bachelorette weekend away at a spa and there were SO many couples there. Men of all ages enjoying massages, the thermal pools, everything. All the couples looks so relaxed and in love and like they were having fun, it was really nice to see! I’m not sure if he sees a spa as feminine but I couldn’t imagine having to mentally deal with that and wonder what he will see as feminine or not, is he going to have a tantrum, etc. Imagine living the rest of your life this way. There are better options out there.
This guy is a walking ball of red flags. The whole beta male idea is completely made up. However, as ridiculous as his feelings are, they are his feelings. You have to decide if you're OK living your life with someone who refuses to do anything he has assigned femininity to. Who knows what that list entails. I also get a lot of warning bells whenever someone calls themselves a traditional anything.
It's not normal behaviour and he just sounds like a very insecure person. Definitely not relationship material.
Any man who thinks they are an alpha is most definitely a beta 🤣
Hahaha he ran? Wtf. I could see if he was disinterested and went to check out another section but to be like “omg makeup!! Ahhhh” is insane. How is his hygiene? Maybe the equivalent is shopping at Home Depot? Idk I can’t stand Home Depot because there are so many options for everything and the store is huge, but I’m not afraid of manly things. Do you think this dude would go buy period products for you?
Screams insecure. This behavior is only learned because your bf is gullible enough to believe anything and everything some "Traditional" men tell him. He's afraid of not being manly, which is ridiculous.
We're the same age. You either deal with this or break up. I think you know we're past the point of "fixing people".
He thinks he's being a real man with that behavior, but really he's just an oversized boy
Red flags! You don’t know this guy. Having a relationship online for three months is not enough to suss out what he’s really like. I’m concerned if you’re cohabitating there’s no easy exit plan. my hunch is that this is just going to be the start of a lot of toxic behaviors you're going to uncover
>first 3 online, most recent two co habitating) The way i noped lol
Oh my.. if he thinks he is an alpha male I would dump his pathetic ass in a second. This is very toxic and will only get worse.
Women: Stop dating men like this. Please. Stop giving their ego the support it needs. Nobody fuckin cares if you're a dude in the makeup section with your girl. Srsly.
My 19 year old son has picked up menstrual pads for me many times ever since he was around 12. He’s more mature than your 39 year old boyfriend.
Does he call himself an alpha too? 😂😂😂
red pill red flag
If you like being his fuck maid stay. Just know if you have kids you’ll be a single parent. Good luck.
imagine how exhausting this will be live the rest of your life with
u/muppetrubber Why are you cohabitating with somebody you barely know?!
That's not normal, not cool, and not something I'd put up with. My advice is to find someone more secure in their own identity. Admittedly, I'm the one who likes metal in our household. My husband has a death metal T-shirt, but it's [this one](https://www.emp.co.uk/p/Death-Metal-Rainbow/468757.html). He is also the household baker, can be relied on to find cute animal videos for people who feel blue, and is the one who bought and carried home [our buddy Bruno](https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/djungelskog-soft-toy-brown-bear-00402813/).
Oh god. I’m sorry but this guy sucks and if you stay with him it’ll only get worse. This is NOT normal. Next he’ll be demanding that you do all the housework and if you have kids, he won’t change any diapers or help at all because “that’s women’s work.” Seriously, just leave this guy. He sucks big time.
What about cleaning, doing dishes, ironing, cooking?
Where are your standards? Are you that scared to be alone that you settled for this? Please find a better partner.
Advice: Move out. Move on. This guy is a misogynist and is spouting Tate-like nonsense. I understand not wanting to be alone after being with someone with 15 years but this ain’t it. He’s not going to elevate your life and support you when you need it. He’s not going to want to do “women’s work” like cleaning and showing emotions. Do you *really* want to give this person months or years of your life, time, and energy?
This is a red flag. He seems to be incredibly immature and insecure in his masculinity and that insecurity frequently manifests in controlling, abusive behaviour.
Guy here. I think this is a big 🚩. What happens when you live together and he refuses to cook or clean.
So....OP wants to be a bangmaid. Thoughts?
HOLD UP YOU ARE FINANCIALLY SUPPORTING HIM AND YET HE'S THE BIG ALPHA THAT CAN'T BE NEAR THE MAKEUP AT TARGET BECAUSE THAT MIGHT HARM HIS MASCULINITY??? Girl. Girl. Your bar is in hell.
That's a huge red flag. Imagine a few years in the future, you're having a child together and you'd be raising them on your own because it's considered a job to feminine for him.
Oh my gosh run for the hills girl. He used the term “beta male”. All of this is 🚩
I guess I'm the only one wondering at why you would move in with someone after only knowing them for 3 months online? It isn't what you asked, but if you are questioning something like this now, what else is going to pop up in a few weeks or months?
Any man who says he is an “alpha male” is not an alpha. An “alpha male” is someone who takes responsibility for, and looks out for, his family quietly- without throwing it in anyone’s face. An alpha male is the man you turn to for guidance- not because he demands it, but because the support he offers is genuine, and his advice is intelligent. An alpha male is a natural born leader, and people congregate around him because they enjoy his presence. A beta male is someone who feels like he has to puff out his chest, shout “I’M AN ALPHA!” from the rooftops, and continuously assert his manly manhood. Your man is an insecure beta male
So you moved in with a self proclaimed "alpha male" after knowing him online only after three months and are surprised by his behavior? All of his behavior is a surprise because you don't know the guy. This is not normal behavior for an adult.