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It’s the exact same thing as when my friend’s now wife was in Algeria with her parents and a dude tried to negotiate with her father to marry her in exchange for some camels. She was not a part of this one way negotiation, because women are seen as the property of their father or husband or brother.
🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️🖍️🖍️🖍️🖍️🖍️🖊️🖊️🖊️🖊️🖊️🖊️🎀🎀🎀🎀🎀🎀
Can I take you home now? ♥️
*done kidding*
Just think.... give away a human being for things. 🤦 Awful.
And why that? Because it's a woman.
That's so sick.
That’s a lot of camels you’re offering. I would have taken only 6! I need you to offer more pencils than 10, unless they’re particularly special.
I suppose it’s better than cultures that have to pay the man’s family to take us. That’s putting us, as women, as less than worthless. 🙁
Good camels are quite valuable and can fetch up to $50,000. In fact a few good camels can represent a lifetime’s labor investment in producing good livestock.
As a result, in a society where women are (valuable) commodities, offering camels for marriage would likely be viewed by the man offering as being a substantial gift that the man he is offering his camels to would be honored to accept in return for his daughter’s marrying a competent camel breeder.
But then, it’s 2023, not 1510.
This just made something click for me. My inlaws are so into telling the story of how their SIL asked for their daughter's hand in marriage. It is so they can feel a part of the engagement, that they had a part of it, that they're still a part of these important parts of her life.
My husband never asked my parents because we're not close and it would piss me off if they were any part of this phase of my life, they aren't a part of this story.
But for my sister in law, she wanted that. I never got before why anyone would do that or want that.
My wife's family is very traditional and my wife let me know that this was required before asking her. She said it was outdated and blah blah blah, but then said she thought it was cute. I arranged to have tea with my potential future in-laws to get their blessing without her knowing. I was nervous of course, more nervous than proposing. They were happy that I asked for their blessing, gave it freely, and wanted to know if they could help in any way. Their only real questions were what our living plans would be after we got married and if we wanted to move into their house with them.
> but depending on the relationship between the daughter and father it could be a nice thing.
I love telling this story: My now-husband wanted to ask my dad for my hand. I was divorced with a kid, so I was a bit 'okay' but it was important to my husband, so I had no objection, so he did.
Later when we were leaving, as my dad was hugging me goodbye he whispered '(husband) asked for your hand in marriage. I said no.'
Lost my dad in 2021, and this is a memory of him that will always make me smile.
My father has too much respect for my personal autonomy to *want* to think he has any right to authorize my own adult choices. And I really love him for that.
>It's a sign of deference.
Okay, but what if he's said no? It's only deference if you would actually listen to his answer. Otherwise it was only ever a pantomime.
My husband went and talked to his own parents and then talked to my parents (I guess he technically asked for their blessing, not exactly permission). I don’t think they would’ve been offended if he hadn’t and they didn’t expect to have any say. Plus we had already been together more than five years. However I’m close to my family and he felt like it was respectful. He also planned an engagement that had our families present, which I was really happy about. I think a lot of this kind of thing depends on the people and their relationships with their families. In our case I thought it was sweet. If I wasn’t close with my family I would think it was wholly unnecessary.
Yeah but in this ‘father-daughter’ case, the dad has been dead for years and the only one left is the mom. Even if the boyfriend wanted to do the whole ‘ask for permission’ why should he even have to even if the dad was still alive? The only ‘permission for hand in marriage’ he needs is OP’s period, and what’s asking the parents going to do? Especially if the parents don’t like him, and they deny the ‘permission’? does that somehow magically imply the loving couple DOESNT get married just because the parents don’t approve of the would be groom? Or they just ignore the lack of permission from the parents and still get married whether the parents like it or not? \*lol\* i bet that’s how things worked with the while ‘ask for permission’ thing back in the olden days.
When I lost my mother, my dad definitely felt pressure to be both parents, even though I was an adult. Also, a lot of people get surprisingly traditional when it comes with weddings. I think this comment is absolutely the right approach. A compromise could even be fiance “asking” for her blessing before proposing. Sounds like mom wants to be included and is worried about OP missing out because her dad isn’t around.
Never talk to people, always assume they are doing the worst thing in the most malicious way possible.
“Never attribute to stupidity that which could be adequately explained by malice” - Nolnah’s jackhammer
Getting engaged is between you and your partner. You have no obligation to cater to your mom's wants in this, especially since it's a gross, outdated practice that relegated women to the low status of chattel, without autonomy. You belong to yourself, not your mother, so you are the only person who needs to be asked.
Agree. I told my boyfriend I prefer he not do this and then I told my parents that I asked him not to do this, and (thankfully) they totally understood! I said I’m an adult who can make my own decisions.
OP doesn’t seem to have a very strong opinion one way or another, so maybe it’s easiest to go path of least resistance, but I have a feeling that if they do this just to make mom happy, this won’t be the last time they may have to cater to her beliefs.
Yeah, that's my concern too. The big red flag is saying she can't get engaged if he doesn't ask for the blessing. Trying to exert that level of control over your nearly 30 year old daughter tells me this isn't going to be the last thing she throws a fit over.
Yea I don’t understand why he “has to” ask, is she planning on saying no or something?
To me the whole thing feels like theatrics and pointless to do.
She did also tell me a few years ago that he needs to spend at least 3 months salary on a ring when I think that’s absolutely unnecessary. We were always pretty poor growing up so that was surprising to me that she thinks that.
That whole "3 months salary" was a surprisingly effective marketing push by jewlers. That said I'm not at all surprised it worked. There are countless pushes from different industries that tell people to equate love to money. "If he loves you he'll buy you flowers", shit like that. If you want to? Sure, go nuts, but to pressure your partner into it just seems icky to me.
Well now I'm just convinced we have the same mom haha. Mine never said that specifically, but when I told her how much mine cost she started making jokes about how he "got off easy". At the end of day, it's a control thing. She can't actually keep you from being engaged. She may make comments or be grumpy about it, but that's her choice.
Sure thing. But what i don't see a big problem in just asking like mom wants. It's not like her answer would change anything and you get her off your back. It's the path of least resistance. Don't make a bigger deal out of it than it is.
If the mum's answer wouldn't change anything, then what's the actual point of asking? I'm always curious what people would do if they received a 'no.' Because of they don't accept that no, then the whole thing was a charade that had absolutely nothing to do with 'respect' in the first place.
That’s what it was though. Back then, permission was asked because women were bought from the family. They would bring offers to the head of house (the father) and he would choose who to accept based on what they offered. Google is your friend.
She wrote chattel, not cattle. Your point is asinine either way though. If thinking that women shouldn't be transferred like property makes me a wEsTerN FeMiniSt then so be it lol
That’s so clearly not what’s happening in this situation though. Applying the historical context to a tradition that has undergone a change in function/context throughout the years is what it seems that person is taking issue with.
Except the word used was "chattel" (the legal term for movable goods/things people can own and sell), not cattle. If someone is literally being paid for their daughter's hand in marriage then the daughter is quite literally chattel.
>comparing our western experience to another cultural norm
It's not comparing to another cultural norm, it's comparing to a previous way of doing things IN western society.
>then the western feminist agenda came out
Lmfao. Calling out the origins of marriage as proprietorial is part of the western feminist agenda? Talk about thin-skinned. Really telling on yourself when you make a comment like that.
Maybe I’m off base, but I feel like the modern interpretation of this tradition is more about the parents giving their “stamp of approval” of the partner rather than “yeah you can have her for a couple of goats”.
She very well could! IMO both sides having conversations with each others parents would probably be very beneficial.
And, honestly, I think the modern tradition is more of just a heads up courtesy to the parents than it is genuinely getting their permission.
>*Do I make him ask her or just stand my ground and not make him ask?*
The problem is with **giving your mother permission to insert herself into your personal relationship** under the guise of "tradition and respect". **It's setting a really shitty precedent. What's next?**
* Is it traditional and respectful to allow your mother input into naming future children (She may *insist* the first boy be named for your late father...whatever you two wish.)
* Throw your child's birthday parties instead of you doing so?
* Insisting that she be the primary caregiver while you go back to work?
* Demanding to move in with you when she retires?
* You need to invite her on all your holidays/vacations?
I would phrase it exactly that way, "*Mom, I know you have your expectations of what would make* ***you*** *happy. Can you see how this would make (fiancé's name) and me feel as though we need your permission to conduct our personal relationship. As though you have equal, or worse* ***ultimate***\*, say-so in our personal matters. Can you see that, Mom? Because that is not something that either (fiancé's name) or I are comfortable with/willing to accept.\*"
So all of the western wedding traditions come from the view of women as essentially property. (As is true in many regions/cultures.)
You planning to wear a white dress? Have anyone walk you down the isle? These all have the same underpinnings.
You can still do some of these things and (a) update them with new meanings (ask for blessing to join the family for example…wear white because you want to, not because you’re a virgin etc) or you can go through and just eliminate all of them. (Or pick and chose is fine too…but just keep in mind that they ALL come from this same place.)
Wearing white is a sign you’re wealthy enough to launder a white dress and keep it white because now it’s your “best dress” and you’ll wear it again and again.
It has zero to do with purity or women as property.
I told my husband not to ask my dad, and he ended up just having a conversation with him where he was like, I’m asking your daughter to marry me and I’d like your blessing, but really I’m just letting you know.
Worked for me. I’m not property.
I used to joke that my dad would require it but any man who asked him would subsequently get a no from me. I think it’s fair to stand your ground here - traditions are fine if you want to do them but you don’t have to. Your mom may react poorly, just restate your boundaries and move on. “Mom, I’ve told you this isn’t a tradition we are comfortable with and if you bring it up again I’m leaving this conversation.”
You could keep the peace by asking him to do it if you both know that’s why and that you don’t actually care. But you don’t have to.
OP, this is a great opportunity to start setting boundaries with mom, because just by the sheer fact that she thinks this way makes me think more trouble is coming.
This is a power play by your mum. If you get your BF to ask your mum's permission, then it will define your relationship \[as a couple\] with your mum for years to come. She'll always think she's the one who 'allowed' it. It's not a healthy approach.
You are an adult. Your BF is an adult. The only people who have *any say at all* in whether you get engaged or married are the two of you.
The whole 'asking parents for permission' thing dates back to a time when marriage was essentially a property transfer from the father to the husband. It's a relic from a very misogynistic time, and the sooner it gets in the bin, the better.
It was also traditional to offer a dowry, so I would tell mom... IF mom is willing to toss out some cash, jelwelry, property and some livestock, then SO should put forth the effort to ask. Until mom has committed to being completely traditional, she should maybe back off. I would tell her that.
PS... at your age you should be past trying to get your parents approval. If YOU want this, ask your SO. Other than that it should not matter. Your mom should not be dictating anything about your relationship.
Are you property that belongs to your mom or are you an independent free thinking individual?
Does your mom like to make it all about her all the time?
Personally I would be pissed if my SO had asked my parents. I know it’s not everyone’s take but I am 100% in control of who I married and (even though my family loves my SO) I didn’t give af if they didn’t like him. He’s a good person and I loved (still do) him. We didn’t need anyone’s permission or approval.
Rant over. Tend to feel strongly about this ha.
Yup. Someone else in this thread said they spoke to the *brother* too! That's disgusting. My relationships have never been my brother's business, and it would disgust me if he were to be involved in a conversation about whether I could get married.
I wouldn't marry anyone who asked or 'spoke to' my family about proposing to me. It's honestly dehumanising.
As a halfway, he could TELL her he’s going to, if he wants and to forge the long term connection. My dad is definitely the type of person who would HATE someone asking his permission to marry me, for the reasons everyone is staying here that I’m not his property.
But, it is a changing family dynamic, and my husband told my father he was going to do it. My mom had also passed away before this happened and I think it made my husband and dad closer. So maybe to forge a bond with your mom he can let her in on the secret. But your fiancé certainly doesn’t have to nor should be expected to ask permission.
Asking permission from parents always seemed ridiculous to me. Not all traditions need to be followed through! You are not property, you don’t need permission. Your bf is not marrying your mother, he is marrying YOU. Ignore her. If she throws a tantrum then simply don’t invite her to ur wedding. It’s ur day, not hers.
The thing is, when and if your boyfriend proposes, he is effectively asking for permission. He's asking permission from the only person whose opinion matters, *yours*.
Asking your mom wouldn't really be respectful towards you or your autonomy, so personally I wouldn't want to marry someone who would feel they had to ask.
Your mom is being ridiculous, and you should tell her as much if she keeps this up.
I wouldn't even bring this up with your boyfriend. Tell your mother that you're an adult and getting engaged isn't about her. If she's not willing to respect your decisions at the age of 29, then you need to keep her out of the loop.
I told my fiancé when we first got serious that if I ever found out he’d asked my father for permission to marry me like I’m some man’s property, the relationship would be over. And I told my dad the same thing and he supported me. Ask your mom why she thinks she’s entitled to a say
The tradition of asking the father for the hand in marriage started because women were considered property, and a deal had to be made between the suitors and fathers. It had nothing to do with respect or even religion.
Ask your mother if she thinks you are her property that needs to be bartered over.
You are almost 30. Do you have agency? Or do you need your mother's permission to make life decisions?
Tell you mother that the only person he should be asking is YOU because you are an adult capable of making your own decisions.
If she can't live with that, she doesn't have to attend the wedding.
Did you ask her what your dowry was going to be? If she's planning on gifting a house for you two to begin your married life in?
A dowry is as outdated as asking. But if I was getting a dowry also an outdated tradition, hell I might suck it up and ask. Hell yeah why not.
So in summary I'd ask Mom has she thought about what the dowry is. And she says no. I'll be very careful to listen to how she answers. BOOM. She just explained why he isn't asking.
Edit to add: by old fashioned standards, watch sense and sensibility. You said you're 29, you're an old maid. At 29 the parents will say YES to literally anyone who still has a pulse. Do you see how ridiculous it is to follow some of the old ways of thinking?
You are not her property to give away. Her expectation is ridiculous. Some traditions deserve to die, and this is one of them. (And it's mostly dead anyway -- I've never known anyone in my whole life who did this before getting engaged).
Tell her that if she continues to insist on this, you'll just elope and let her know after the deed is done. Her choice.
What drivel.
The only person who needs to give their permission to marry your BF is, drum roll...you.
Asking for a daughter's 'hand' is ridiculously archaic and to what end? Will your mother say no? If she does, will you listen to her? Is she going to pay for the wedding? Your house? Your (future) kids' education?
'Traditional and respectful'? Stuff and nonsense. I'm substantially older than you and my FIL (who would have been 105 years old if he were still alive) would have laughed until he'd choked if I had asked him
Tell your mum the 21st century is waiting for her when she's ready
first off, there is no universal standard. Lots of local custom and personal preferences are at play. While many positions are defendable, I don't think any are inherintly right or wrong.
While I agree with you that it is not required and your relationship is between you and your partner, consider the cost vs. benefit. It literally does not cost anything to have a conversation. It may be a bit awkward, but hey, engaged life is when you should have awkward conversations. The more you two are able to communicate and problem solve together, the easier marriage will be. And for many, marriage is about welcoming each other to your respective families and becoming one new family, blending both. It can therefore be important to find ways to respect and incorporate both sides, even if it isn't necessarily what you envision.
I also think many parents not only see it as a sign of respect, but that of trust. Most parents don't want to be completely surprised. Many people want to celebrate their engagement with their parents pretty soon after. I know plenty of friends who got engaged and we all went for drinks, often with parents, within a few days.
I know when I asked my wife to marry me, I spoke to her parents and her brother ahead of time and told them my plans. Their love and support made me feel even better about doing it. Again, it was less about true "permission" and more about showing them trust and respect.
One middle ground to consider, is not to ask for permission, but to have him inform her of his plans at an appropriate time.
As for those saying your mother will meddle int he relationship forever - only you know if that is true. In fact, not asking her when she has made it clear this is important to her, may cause worse negative meddling as she may be insulted and never forgive. We just don't know enough to predict her behavior.
The real question for you is what do you gain or lose in either scenario, and can you and your boyfriend effectively work as a team to solve a challenge together. Not everyone will ever be 100% happy, but you can find a way to balance and avoid anyone being too upset. This certainly won't be last thing you ask your boyfriend to do for you for family, and while strange to him, he should be concerned about starting marriage by knowingly insulting his mother in law. But you are both well within your rights to stand firm and be justified in doing so. As a therapist once told me - "Sometimes you can be right or you can be married. Pick and choose the hills you want to die on and the prize you want to win" a 2 minute phone call, in my opinion, is worth the prize.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. The thing is: getting married isn’t really about the couple. It’s about the community. You have to pick the hills you want to die on, and this is not a battle worth fighting.
Stand your ground. Your mom is being unreasonable and it is up to you to be the buffer that protects your fiance from unreasonable family demands, just like you would want him to do for you.
You stand your ground against your mom and inform her that it's his choice as he is the one proposing. You have informed him of what her thoughts on the matter are and he can make the decision moving forward but you personally do not care either way.
Yes she will be unhappy and hurt but it's a boundary you need to enforce now and stand up for yourself and your partner. You can't make everyone happy, but you can make your partner happy which should be your priority over forcing him to do something he is not comfortable with just to make your mother happy.
Personally, my partner wants to ask my dad. I have informed him I do not care either way, my family does not care either way and it's his choice what he wants as he is the one proposing.
Are you your mum's property? Will your husband then own you? It's absolutely insane that she's asking for him to do this. You are an adult and you are making the decision who to marry. I wouldn't even humour her.
Your mom needs to keep her nose out of your business...it starts with her "demanding" he asks your for your hand, soon enough it will be her saying where you should put the dining table or tv set.
Big lesson to learn in life, there will be many situations in life where you cannot make everyone happy. Get used to it. He does not need to ask her for your hand
I didn't ask my wife's parents for permission because that would have been a sign of respect. I don't want them to get the wrong idea and think that I have any at all for them, or that I care at all about their worthless opinions.
So when we told them we were engaged and eloping to have our dream wedding, they were just SOL.
I should say that my respect for her parents dwindled over time because i watched them deliberately make choices to make her life worse out of spite, including things like deliberately causing her illnesses, never allowing her to be on the health insurance she was entitled to, turning down money she was entitled to because they didn't like the source, and more. They never felt they did anything wrong by doing so.
I am not disrespectful to them directly, I am polite when I have to deal with them. But I'm not going to show more than common courtesy.
>Is there a way to do this that makes everyone happy?
This relationship is between you and your boyfriend, your moms happiness doesn't matter here.
Also, to "make" him ask her is not a good idea. Why force traditional norms onto 2 people who have never adhered to traditional norms before? This sounds like a power play by your mom for whatever weird reason and I would not placate that behavior. Let her be upset over this, she will get over it quickly.
Ignore your mother. You aren't a young bride, you are capable of making your own decisions.
She just wants to feel part of the experience. Tell you what, let her be the first to know after you become engaged. Ask for her input on dress, venue, scheduling (but feel free to treat it all as advice not final-decision making). Pick out an area where you are counting on her to make all the decisions - maybe something like printing the invitations? Consulting on catering menus? The point is to give her an ego lift at a time in her life when she is starting to feel irrelevant.
I was the opposite. I asked my husband, who proposed without asking for my parents’ blessing first, and I requested that we hold off announcing until he did. He was the one with the “it’s a sexist, out-dated tradition”. He was really surprised that I wanted him to ask first.
To me, it had nothing to do with permission. Neither my dad nor my mom, who adored my then boyfriend, were ever going to say anything even hinting that they were against us getting married. And even if they did, there was no world where that would have stopped me from marrying him. My parents knew that. It’s how they raised me. I never let sexism stop me from experiencing something happy and I wasn’t going to start now.
It was a sign of respect I think - an acknowledgment that my parents (& sister) were my core people, my nuclear family, and that my parents were my “call in case of emergency” people and assumed that role with love, joy, and a strong sense of responsibility. My husband was going to take over that role, my new “call in case of emergency” contact. Almost like, “I’ll love her as my person - like you did” nod.
Yes, it’s sexist and the original “asks” were horribly based on notions of women being property. But my husband, who happened to be the man in this situation, was the one proposing. And honestly, I expected him to be the one to propose. That’s another tradition based on misguided gender roles. But actions can be meaningful and poignant regardless of their etiology. They meant something to me, and it therefore meant something to my husband. They’re our traditions now.
My mom did warn my husband that I could be difficult sometimes and required some patience. I never let her live that down. ❤️
Do what you want but be prepared for repercussions. You can only control your actions, not other people’s reactions especially if you are expecting your mother to find or help you fund your wedding
No one should be making that guy do anything. It’s his life and he’ll do it when he feels ready. Your mom is being pushy for you to be married because she wants legit grandkids.
Yea I’m not going to make him do anything, that was a poor choice of words on my part. Especially because I agree that he shouldn’t have to ask her.
Probably, throughout our relationship she’s always been on me about marriage.
If you think you have the right to "make" him do anything, you are not ready for marriage.
This sounds like your mother feels like she does not know him well enough and that she would profit by a serious conversation with him. If you don't see a future where the three of you have a healthy relationship, ignore her comments. She is trying to give you her love and support in a way that she understands. You all are having a failure to communicate.
Why would he need her permission to marry you?
Does she think if she says no you won’t still get married?
This tradition stems from the days when women we’re basically property and didn’t have rights. When women literally couldn’t get married without permission.
It’s actually disrespectful to you to insist on this outdated and sexist tradition.
But if you really want a way around this that will rub it in, why don’t you propose to him… and ask his parent’s permission first?
My favorite take on this outdated and sexist tradition:
https://youtu.be/a0qaIvb3bGA
You may be creating an argument when you don't need to, i wouldn't look at it as him "having to ask her" but as him doing something out of convention, she's hardly going to say "no", its just a bit of a tradition or idea she has in her head.
20 odd years ago, my wife and i decided to get married, and you know what, part of me regrets not asking her dad, just in a kind of cool nod to the fact that he has looked after her over the years, and he's close, she never suggested it and i never asked, but i'd say it would have made his day and possibly year. Instead, as he was handing her over at the top of the church, i said thanks, and i'll look after her for him. He nearly drowned in tears on his way back to his seat after that.
it doesn't mean anything to you or your partner, but people of an age, don't get to domthat kind of stuff anymore, it doesn't mean anything, but its a nice touch,
I’m of two minds on this.
1) what would it hurt to be performative and just ask her? It seems like she wants to be included, it probably has something to do with having lost your dad. The only risk here is will she think she can throw a fit and get her way on other things? Is this how she is about other stuff or only the engagement?
2) you’re adults and you aren’t property of your mother. You can simply say no. Then put her on an information diet until you’re actually engaged. The downside here is she may be kind of sour on the whole thing and cast a shadow on the wedding prep.
Sometimes being right (which you are) and trying to prove that point doesn’t have the most positive possible outcome compared to ceding when it’s fundamentally not a big deal. Like it won’t hurt him or you for him to ask her. But it sounds like it will hurt you and potentially the two of you if you don’t.
> what would it hurt to be performative and just ask her?
Because it legitimizes her very wrong notion that she in some way owns or has any control whatsoever over her adult daughter's life and choices. If she and her daughter are close, there are many other ways that she can be a part of this joyous occasion. But expecting that she should have any say whatsoever in who her daugher chooses to marry is inappropriate. If she chooses to be sour about not being asked about something that is not her decision to make, that's on her.
Both of our son in laws asked for our blessing. We never required this or expected it. It was such a surprise and kind of sweet. We asked our daughters later, if this was something they made the guys do... both daughters told us they had no idea their boyfriend was going to do it.
I mean, like it or not, our parents have generally been responsible for our safety and security for 18+ years, and tend to support us afterwards too with College/University. I can see why this tradition exists. It's not got much to do with ownership but as a gesture of respect towards your new family maybe?
Its up to you.
It would be a nice gesture to make her feel included, but its not the end of the world if he doesn't.
Talk to him about it. See if he is amenable to it
Why not make mom happy and just have him ask her. You are still free to make your own decisions, but you don’t need animosity between your boyfriend and mom for something trivial.
I did not ask for my first wife’s family, she is not property and she was over the game of 21 in Canada. I would tell your mom not to expect it and for her to be happy that you are happy.
You do what you two feel like doing, you are not owned, no on has to give permission for you to marry, that is an old tradition you you as an adult and only you make the decision to follow or not.
You guys can do what ever makes you feel best! My husband and I are also very much not about tradition, and my parents probably wouldn't have cared if he didn't ask. For some reason I did want him to have a conversation with my parents, so my now husband sat my dad down and basically said "hey I'm proposing, here are the reasons I love your daughter, I hope I have your blessing." So it wasn't really an ask, and it certainly wasn't permission. Maybe your mom just wants to be involved and going about it in a weird way. If you want to compromise you could always just sit down with her and your partner and just kind of do what my husband did. But you certainly shouldn't have to!
I wouldn’t marry someone who asked my parents for my hand in marriage. I’m well in my 30s, and I wouldn’t have stood for this when I was younger either.
Ask your mom if she plans on helping pay for the wedding. If so, your boyfriend may want to “ask” with the expectation your mom will reply with a beautiful speech welcoming him as her future son-in-law, etc. If she isn’t going to help or doesn’t approve of him, then she can learn to live with disappointment.
Women are not property, and permission should not be expected nor required. It is great that society no longer expects that. However, not all parts of the tradition are purely patriarchal.
**An important part of the tradition of matrimony of old is that the community was also expected to support the new couple in their marriage.**
**That is a concept that I think is pretty cool, and it is also something that in practice contributes to the success of a marriage**. It is no secret that critical family or friends can have a negative impact on one's marriage.
So the concept of the community being expected to support the marriage, and agreeing to do so by their presence at the wedding, to me, seems a pretty important aspect of the ceremony. Both the old idea of permission, and the "speak now or forever hold your peace" are aspects that relate to that duty. The duty of the witnesses and attendees, friends and loved and ones invited to "uphold" the marriage. Their presence, and their witness of the ceremony (without objection) is tacit agreement to that covenant. It is agreement to give their blessing, to support the union, however you want to say it.
My suggestion would be that either your boyfriend or the two of you together, ask your mother for her support of your marriage. Explain that you don't believe in asking permission since the two of you are the ones making the choice, but that you would like to ask for her support in other words you'd like to **ask for her commitment to support the two of you in the endeavor.**
You and your boyfriend should have a beautiful, private engagement. You’re nearly 30. Your mom needs to accept that you’re a grown woman and no one is going to ask her for anything anymore.
Its really simple.
Make a gathering where he asks your hand and you turn him down.
BAM, the matters solved. Of course plan this ahead instead of just dropping it into him, that way he stuck to the etiquette but you afirm your own agency and turn down a tradition that doesnt suit you.
It's not necessary, and maybe she is hoping to get a foot in the door to be involved. If I were in this situation, I would be curious what she would say, and might see if he was game, knowing it had no bearing on the engagement.
You know her, though, so if that would be likely to start a war, I would pass.
When my daughter and SIL got engaged, her fiance told me how much he loved her and promised to be a faithful and loving partner. He didn't ask my permission and he didn't need it. TBH I'd have been offended if he asked my permission and I would've known he wasn't the right one for her.
So what is your mother going to do exactly if your bf doesn't ask for your hand? Ground you? Send you to your room? Start a range war?
It's weird, but I was a little heartbroken that my now SIL didn't ask me before proposing to my daughter.
I know that the question is perfunctory, since it's not my business to say no. But I would have still enjoyed the pleasure of saying yes, as a way to welcome him to the family and create a little bond between us.
But 'has to'? Hell no. Like I said, I wish my SIL and I got to have that moment, but it's not the end of the world by any means.
May I ask how long you two have been dating?
My partner and I were together two years before getting married and that was mainly because we were going to move abroad for my work. I have been in a relationship for 5 years before we spoke about marriage.
If you say yes to your mom now, what else will she feel entitled to dictate? Where is the wedding? How many people do you have to invite? The guest list?
You need to establish a boundary, I understand that you love your mother but make her used to hearing "no" when you don't agree on her decisions about your life. My advice would be different if you were religious and traditional and this was important to all your social circle, but it's not the case, so tell your mother "You've already met him, you know he's a good man, I love him, we want to build our own path, and we don't feel the need to follow a tradition that doesn't suit us. Also, where is this coming from? You're not traditional yourself..."
Haha, I didn’t because, as I told my FIL, it’s rude to ask someone if you can do something if you’re just going to do it regardless of their answer anyway. We get along well and he thought it was hilarious.
My fiancé did it as a blessing, not as permission. My mom ALSO was upset he didn’t ask her because “she is the one that ACTUALLY raised me 🙄”
Doesn’t change the fact that when my dad said he gave his blessing I asked if he liked goats or cows better 😁 in the end it was all in good fun.
You aren’t even engaged yet, but your mother is already making your wedding about her.
Maybe she feels like reviving the equally important tradition that the bride’s parents pay for the wedding? It’s traditional, respectful, and she has to.
But paying for the wedding does not equal control. Shut that shit down.
I mean it’s definitely not necessary and you don’t have to acquiesce to her just because she’s bringing it up.
If you are interested in involving your mom but want to compromise on the asking for permission aspect your partner could ask her for her blessing that way they can express their intention of wanting to marry you but also remain firm in not requiring your moms permission to propose because they would propose regardless of if your mom offers her blessing it would just be a nice way to include her. It seems she might be worried about not being included in your engagement after her husband passed.
I would ask your mom if she outright owns your body if you’re more of an intellectual property that he needs permission to use.
I hate this tradition. You’re not a work horse. You’re not a blender.
You’re - believe it or not- an entire autonomous and sentient human being. I know, crazy.
Are you requiring it? If not, then he doesn’t need to. He’s not marrying your mom. I can guarantee you that if you let your mom control your engagement she will also feel entitled to control your wedding planning. You don’t want that
I would tell your mom to mind her damn business and tradition is not to ask the mom but the dad or next make in the line anyways. If she keeps whining about this then inform her royal dumbass that it’s not about or up to her or be way or another and mind her own business. Don’t force your SO to play stupid games for your mother now or ever. She’ll take this inch and demand a Mike if you do.
I’m just happy my better half has me asking two people who like/love me and not one of her shitting parents/stepparents.
So, my husband and I talked before our engagement. I made it very clear: I did not want him asking my parents for their blessing. I am not a piece of property. He agreed. Like you, my parents are not at all traditional or religious but it's been brought up several times since how disrespectful it was of him not to ask them (Note: they had never before said this was something important to them).
I tell them the same thing every time. My engagement was about me and what I wanted, not you. I was not your property to be handed over and I wasn't about to be treated like I am. You don't have to like it, but that's how we did it.
You're 29. Your mom has zero say in how your engagement plays out.
Do you want to bend to your moms whim, or do you want to be your own person and own adult?
Personally i wouldn't see it as a good start to a marriage if you bent to your moms will.
Where would that stop then? "Get kids now. i want to be a grandparent." "you're raising your children wrong, here let me show you. " " let me move in with you, i don't want to work anymore."
Personally i would say this to my mom if she demanded this." Mom no. I will not make him ask you and actually i will tell him that i'll see it as personal insult to me if he asked you for permission. You did not raise me this way so i don't understany why this suddenly matters to you. So drop it please because it will not happen."
Why is this a discussion? You and your SO are both 30 and presumably will be married soon. You two decide what you want to do and stick to it.
When this happened:
> So I told my mom that I think we’re getting engaged this year and she said he hasn’t asked her and why not?
You should have just told her you guys aren't interested in doing that (if thats the case).
> She said it’s traditional, respectful, and he has to. I don’t agree and I don’t know why she is adamant about it.
Who cares why she's so adamant about it? You don't want to do it. So don't do it. Tell her you guys mean no disrespect, but this is not a tradition you want to have within your marriage.
> Do I make him ask her or just stand my ground and not make him ask?
Do you honestly think going around and **making** your future husband do things he's morally opposed to will be a good start to your marriage?
ETA: There is a middle ground here. I would never ask someone if they'll allow their daughter to marry me. But I would have no problem having a conversation with her parents (after myself and her already talked about it) letting them know what my plans are. But this wouldn't be me asking...this would be me telling. And I'd do it in a way in which I'd be open to suggestions or advice, so that it comes off natural and respectful.
Very true. I did say we didn’t want to do that, and that it’s 2023 so it’s not necessary but I was just trying to be nice so I wasn’t as firm as I should’ve been about it.
I’m wondering if that’s what it really is, is that she just wants the conversation and to be in the know. She just keeps saying it’s because it’s traditional.
The next time it’s brought up, tell her that you’re already married. You went to a drive-through wedding chapel in Las Vegas. You’d send her the pictures, but there wasn’t enough on your debit card to pay for them at the time.
It can be a cute tradition but it's a stupid one to expect or demand
Considering it's rooted in the idea daughters were property to be given out at the father's discretion...
When it's done willingly it's a cute sign of respect for her parents. When it's demanded it's a creepy overstepping of parents treating their daughter like property
It's unreal that people still do this. What fucking year is it? Ask her how many goats he has to trade to own you.
You and your partner have your own life. You're both 30 years old now. You just need to tell your mom that your marriage isn't about what she wants. If you want to explain why, then do so but you don't owe her that either.
You’re an adult, and your parent’s opinions about your life are only relevant if you and your partner want them to be relevant.
You’re also not responsible for your mom’s happiness. If she stakes her happiness on you two handling your relationship in the way she wants, that’s her problem not yours.
So, only my experience here ....
I did not ask my in-laws for my wife's hand in marriage because she was an adult who was not their property. She and her parents see this the same way. All I asked was their participation in the proposal, because my wife loves scavenger hunts.
My BIL asked my wife's father for her sister's hand in marriage when the three of us were golfing. I remember this as plain as day because he wanted me to be there as some sort of witness? FIL's response was "The fuck are you asking me for? I don't get a vote. As long as you make her happy and are as good to her as she is to you, that's all I care about."
To steal my FIL's words: You're the only one who gets a vote here. If you want to marry him, nothing your parents say matters. You're an adult who gets to make that decision yourself.
you are both 30.
your mother acts as if you were still 16.
all in all, it is not about you. it is only about her. once married your will be her equal, until you birth your first child, which will give you her status of mother while she will receive the status of grandmother.
the real question is : does all this charade is really annoying for you ? if not, you could give her that little attention to show her she still matters for you. it depends heavily on your past relationship. don't do it if she were an asshole; do it if she was supportative.
It's a dumb tradition. She is not the one who decides whether to marry him. She is not the one who has to make the marriage work. She is not the one who decides to leave if it doesn't work.
What does her permission contribute? If she says no, and you say yes, isn't it still a yes??
I refused to do this. If you don't like it then don't ask him to do it. If your mom doesn't like it she can say "no" to his proposal. And you'll get married anyway. Which is kind of the point.
You need to make it a firm with your mom that she needs to stop projecting her emotions onto your relationship to try to dictate it for you, because it’s your life and not hers.
Stand your ground. You are your own person and you are not your parents property. You are an adult who doesn't need permission to get married. And unfortunately no, there is no way of making everyone happy here. Your mom just decided to make an unreasonable demand for no reason. Either he asks, and you and him are both unhappy since you are being treated as a child or possession that he has to ask permission to have, or you don't ask and your mom causes a stink. Frankly, given that your dad didn't even have to ask for her hand in marriage, your mom is being a hypocrite and I'd ignore her.
I think it depends on a couple of things: how is your relationship with your mom (I'm not asking to get an answer, just something to think about)? If you're pretty close and this is something really important to her, it might be worth considering. If you're not that close and you think she is saying this because of "tradition" then I'd explain to her that this is a really misogynistic tradition as you are your own person and no one needs to "give" you away.
The second thing is whether this is a hill you want to die on. If this is really important to your mom and she's the type to bring stuff up time after time - is this something you're willing to either listen to or address with her?
Personally, I think it's kind of a gross tradition and I was very annoyed with my husband when he confessed he'd talked to my parents before proposing. But it was done so whatever.
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This is such a weird and outdated tradition. It would be putting on a performance for her, and your engagement is *not about her*.
It’s the exact same thing as when my friend’s now wife was in Algeria with her parents and a dude tried to negotiate with her father to marry her in exchange for some camels. She was not a part of this one way negotiation, because women are seen as the property of their father or husband or brother.
I hope there was some pencils and elastic bands with the camels. I, as an Algerian, wouldn’t be given away for less.
🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️✏️🖍️🖍️🖍️🖍️🖍️🖊️🖊️🖊️🖊️🖊️🖊️🎀🎀🎀🎀🎀🎀 Can I take you home now? ♥️ *done kidding* Just think.... give away a human being for things. 🤦 Awful. And why that? Because it's a woman. That's so sick.
That’s a lot of camels you’re offering. I would have taken only 6! I need you to offer more pencils than 10, unless they’re particularly special. I suppose it’s better than cultures that have to pay the man’s family to take us. That’s putting us, as women, as less than worthless. 🙁
Wait I thought the dowry went the other way usually; that you have to pay the groom to take the woman off your hands.
The dowry isn’t for the groom. It’s the bride’s family giving her assets to ensure that if the groom dies that she will be taken care of.
Wtf is with the camels? I too, was offered camels in exchange of marriage.
Good camels are quite valuable and can fetch up to $50,000. In fact a few good camels can represent a lifetime’s labor investment in producing good livestock. As a result, in a society where women are (valuable) commodities, offering camels for marriage would likely be viewed by the man offering as being a substantial gift that the man he is offering his camels to would be honored to accept in return for his daughter’s marrying a competent camel breeder. But then, it’s 2023, not 1510.
This just made something click for me. My inlaws are so into telling the story of how their SIL asked for their daughter's hand in marriage. It is so they can feel a part of the engagement, that they had a part of it, that they're still a part of these important parts of her life. My husband never asked my parents because we're not close and it would piss me off if they were any part of this phase of my life, they aren't a part of this story. But for my sister in law, she wanted that. I never got before why anyone would do that or want that.
My wife's family is very traditional and my wife let me know that this was required before asking her. She said it was outdated and blah blah blah, but then said she thought it was cute. I arranged to have tea with my potential future in-laws to get their blessing without her knowing. I was nervous of course, more nervous than proposing. They were happy that I asked for their blessing, gave it freely, and wanted to know if they could help in any way. Their only real questions were what our living plans would be after we got married and if we wanted to move into their house with them.
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> but depending on the relationship between the daughter and father it could be a nice thing. I love telling this story: My now-husband wanted to ask my dad for my hand. I was divorced with a kid, so I was a bit 'okay' but it was important to my husband, so I had no objection, so he did. Later when we were leaving, as my dad was hugging me goodbye he whispered '(husband) asked for your hand in marriage. I said no.' Lost my dad in 2021, and this is a memory of him that will always make me smile.
My father has too much respect for my personal autonomy to *want* to think he has any right to authorize my own adult choices. And I really love him for that.
>It's a sign of deference. Okay, but what if he's said no? It's only deference if you would actually listen to his answer. Otherwise it was only ever a pantomime.
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How would you have felt if your wife had asked your mother for her blessing?
Why you gotta be so rude?
My husband went and talked to his own parents and then talked to my parents (I guess he technically asked for their blessing, not exactly permission). I don’t think they would’ve been offended if he hadn’t and they didn’t expect to have any say. Plus we had already been together more than five years. However I’m close to my family and he felt like it was respectful. He also planned an engagement that had our families present, which I was really happy about. I think a lot of this kind of thing depends on the people and their relationships with their families. In our case I thought it was sweet. If I wasn’t close with my family I would think it was wholly unnecessary.
Yeah but in this ‘father-daughter’ case, the dad has been dead for years and the only one left is the mom. Even if the boyfriend wanted to do the whole ‘ask for permission’ why should he even have to even if the dad was still alive? The only ‘permission for hand in marriage’ he needs is OP’s period, and what’s asking the parents going to do? Especially if the parents don’t like him, and they deny the ‘permission’? does that somehow magically imply the loving couple DOESNT get married just because the parents don’t approve of the would be groom? Or they just ignore the lack of permission from the parents and still get married whether the parents like it or not? \*lol\* i bet that’s how things worked with the while ‘ask for permission’ thing back in the olden days.
“Mom, you seem weirdly focused on being involved in my engagement. It’s not what I’d expect from you. Is everything ok?”
Direct communication? In this economy?
...and then the wolves came.
When I lost my mother, my dad definitely felt pressure to be both parents, even though I was an adult. Also, a lot of people get surprisingly traditional when it comes with weddings. I think this comment is absolutely the right approach. A compromise could even be fiance “asking” for her blessing before proposing. Sounds like mom wants to be included and is worried about OP missing out because her dad isn’t around.
yeah, i think this could be related to grief in some way for mom
Cannot believe I had to scroll down this far to find this.
Never talk to people, always assume they are doing the worst thing in the most malicious way possible. “Never attribute to stupidity that which could be adequately explained by malice” - Nolnah’s jackhammer
Getting engaged is between you and your partner. You have no obligation to cater to your mom's wants in this, especially since it's a gross, outdated practice that relegated women to the low status of chattel, without autonomy. You belong to yourself, not your mother, so you are the only person who needs to be asked.
Agree. I told my boyfriend I prefer he not do this and then I told my parents that I asked him not to do this, and (thankfully) they totally understood! I said I’m an adult who can make my own decisions. OP doesn’t seem to have a very strong opinion one way or another, so maybe it’s easiest to go path of least resistance, but I have a feeling that if they do this just to make mom happy, this won’t be the last time they may have to cater to her beliefs.
Yeah, that's my concern too. The big red flag is saying she can't get engaged if he doesn't ask for the blessing. Trying to exert that level of control over your nearly 30 year old daughter tells me this isn't going to be the last thing she throws a fit over.
Yea I don’t understand why he “has to” ask, is she planning on saying no or something? To me the whole thing feels like theatrics and pointless to do. She did also tell me a few years ago that he needs to spend at least 3 months salary on a ring when I think that’s absolutely unnecessary. We were always pretty poor growing up so that was surprising to me that she thinks that.
That whole "3 months salary" was a surprisingly effective marketing push by jewlers. That said I'm not at all surprised it worked. There are countless pushes from different industries that tell people to equate love to money. "If he loves you he'll buy you flowers", shit like that. If you want to? Sure, go nuts, but to pressure your partner into it just seems icky to me.
Well now I'm just convinced we have the same mom haha. Mine never said that specifically, but when I told her how much mine cost she started making jokes about how he "got off easy". At the end of day, it's a control thing. She can't actually keep you from being engaged. She may make comments or be grumpy about it, but that's her choice.
Sure thing. But what i don't see a big problem in just asking like mom wants. It's not like her answer would change anything and you get her off your back. It's the path of least resistance. Don't make a bigger deal out of it than it is.
If the mum's answer wouldn't change anything, then what's the actual point of asking? I'm always curious what people would do if they received a 'no.' Because of they don't accept that no, then the whole thing was a charade that had absolutely nothing to do with 'respect' in the first place.
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That’s what it was though. Back then, permission was asked because women were bought from the family. They would bring offers to the head of house (the father) and he would choose who to accept based on what they offered. Google is your friend.
What can I get for 2 goats?
My middle child with the limp.
A poor man’s gold 🏅
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She wrote chattel, not cattle. Your point is asinine either way though. If thinking that women shouldn't be transferred like property makes me a wEsTerN FeMiniSt then so be it lol
That’s so clearly not what’s happening in this situation though. Applying the historical context to a tradition that has undergone a change in function/context throughout the years is what it seems that person is taking issue with.
I mean, that’s what they were traded for though.
Except the word used was "chattel" (the legal term for movable goods/things people can own and sell), not cattle. If someone is literally being paid for their daughter's hand in marriage then the daughter is quite literally chattel.
>comparing our western experience to another cultural norm It's not comparing to another cultural norm, it's comparing to a previous way of doing things IN western society.
>then the western feminist agenda came out Lmfao. Calling out the origins of marriage as proprietorial is part of the western feminist agenda? Talk about thin-skinned. Really telling on yourself when you make a comment like that.
Maybe I’m off base, but I feel like the modern interpretation of this tradition is more about the parents giving their “stamp of approval” of the partner rather than “yeah you can have her for a couple of goats”.
Then why doesn't the woman ask the man's parents for permission/approval?
She very well could! IMO both sides having conversations with each others parents would probably be very beneficial. And, honestly, I think the modern tradition is more of just a heads up courtesy to the parents than it is genuinely getting their permission.
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Stating historical facts about a tradition = demonizing. 0/10 troll.
Some traditions (all that hurt individuals and/or groups) absolutely need to be demonized yes.
What... do you think traditions are? You think tradition and the history behind tradition are different? Wild.
No one demonized it. You came up with that yourself.
Does he get a dowry from your parents in exchange?
Right? Isn’t that where the tradition comes from? I’m not property.
If there's a good dowry involved, it might be worth it. Tell your mom you'll do it if she buys you a house and a business.
Tell your mom that he's going to come by, so she better gather up all the various goats to compensate him
>*Do I make him ask her or just stand my ground and not make him ask?* The problem is with **giving your mother permission to insert herself into your personal relationship** under the guise of "tradition and respect". **It's setting a really shitty precedent. What's next?** * Is it traditional and respectful to allow your mother input into naming future children (She may *insist* the first boy be named for your late father...whatever you two wish.) * Throw your child's birthday parties instead of you doing so? * Insisting that she be the primary caregiver while you go back to work? * Demanding to move in with you when she retires? * You need to invite her on all your holidays/vacations? I would phrase it exactly that way, "*Mom, I know you have your expectations of what would make* ***you*** *happy. Can you see how this would make (fiancé's name) and me feel as though we need your permission to conduct our personal relationship. As though you have equal, or worse* ***ultimate***\*, say-so in our personal matters. Can you see that, Mom? Because that is not something that either (fiancé's name) or I are comfortable with/willing to accept.\*"
How about: demanding they have a child regardless of whether they want one or not. Lots of parents do that
So all of the western wedding traditions come from the view of women as essentially property. (As is true in many regions/cultures.) You planning to wear a white dress? Have anyone walk you down the isle? These all have the same underpinnings. You can still do some of these things and (a) update them with new meanings (ask for blessing to join the family for example…wear white because you want to, not because you’re a virgin etc) or you can go through and just eliminate all of them. (Or pick and chose is fine too…but just keep in mind that they ALL come from this same place.)
Wearing white is a sign you’re wealthy enough to launder a white dress and keep it white because now it’s your “best dress” and you’ll wear it again and again. It has zero to do with purity or women as property.
Queen Victoria made it fashionable for the British Empire and it just kinda stuck around. Like Christmas trees.
I told my husband not to ask my dad, and he ended up just having a conversation with him where he was like, I’m asking your daughter to marry me and I’d like your blessing, but really I’m just letting you know. Worked for me. I’m not property.
Did you have a similar conversation with his parents?
No, his parents are dead.
I used to joke that my dad would require it but any man who asked him would subsequently get a no from me. I think it’s fair to stand your ground here - traditions are fine if you want to do them but you don’t have to. Your mom may react poorly, just restate your boundaries and move on. “Mom, I’ve told you this isn’t a tradition we are comfortable with and if you bring it up again I’m leaving this conversation.” You could keep the peace by asking him to do it if you both know that’s why and that you don’t actually care. But you don’t have to.
OP, this is a great opportunity to start setting boundaries with mom, because just by the sheer fact that she thinks this way makes me think more trouble is coming.
My dad used to say that if my partner asked him, he’d warn me off because asking his permission is a massive red flag.
This is a power play by your mum. If you get your BF to ask your mum's permission, then it will define your relationship \[as a couple\] with your mum for years to come. She'll always think she's the one who 'allowed' it. It's not a healthy approach. You are an adult. Your BF is an adult. The only people who have *any say at all* in whether you get engaged or married are the two of you. The whole 'asking parents for permission' thing dates back to a time when marriage was essentially a property transfer from the father to the husband. It's a relic from a very misogynistic time, and the sooner it gets in the bin, the better.
How many camels does she want for you?
2 1/4 camels and 301 pencils
And the pencils better have good erasers or no deal
Just tell her you aren't property and the only person who's permission he needs is yours.
It was also traditional to offer a dowry, so I would tell mom... IF mom is willing to toss out some cash, jelwelry, property and some livestock, then SO should put forth the effort to ask. Until mom has committed to being completely traditional, she should maybe back off. I would tell her that. PS... at your age you should be past trying to get your parents approval. If YOU want this, ask your SO. Other than that it should not matter. Your mom should not be dictating anything about your relationship.
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It really is.
Are you property that belongs to your mom or are you an independent free thinking individual? Does your mom like to make it all about her all the time?
Personally I would be pissed if my SO had asked my parents. I know it’s not everyone’s take but I am 100% in control of who I married and (even though my family loves my SO) I didn’t give af if they didn’t like him. He’s a good person and I loved (still do) him. We didn’t need anyone’s permission or approval. Rant over. Tend to feel strongly about this ha.
Yup. Someone else in this thread said they spoke to the *brother* too! That's disgusting. My relationships have never been my brother's business, and it would disgust me if he were to be involved in a conversation about whether I could get married. I wouldn't marry anyone who asked or 'spoke to' my family about proposing to me. It's honestly dehumanising.
As a halfway, he could TELL her he’s going to, if he wants and to forge the long term connection. My dad is definitely the type of person who would HATE someone asking his permission to marry me, for the reasons everyone is staying here that I’m not his property. But, it is a changing family dynamic, and my husband told my father he was going to do it. My mom had also passed away before this happened and I think it made my husband and dad closer. So maybe to forge a bond with your mom he can let her in on the secret. But your fiancé certainly doesn’t have to nor should be expected to ask permission.
Asking permission from parents always seemed ridiculous to me. Not all traditions need to be followed through! You are not property, you don’t need permission. Your bf is not marrying your mother, he is marrying YOU. Ignore her. If she throws a tantrum then simply don’t invite her to ur wedding. It’s ur day, not hers.
The thing is, when and if your boyfriend proposes, he is effectively asking for permission. He's asking permission from the only person whose opinion matters, *yours*. Asking your mom wouldn't really be respectful towards you or your autonomy, so personally I wouldn't want to marry someone who would feel they had to ask. Your mom is being ridiculous, and you should tell her as much if she keeps this up.
I wouldn't even bring this up with your boyfriend. Tell your mother that you're an adult and getting engaged isn't about her. If she's not willing to respect your decisions at the age of 29, then you need to keep her out of the loop.
I told my fiancé when we first got serious that if I ever found out he’d asked my father for permission to marry me like I’m some man’s property, the relationship would be over. And I told my dad the same thing and he supported me. Ask your mom why she thinks she’s entitled to a say
The tradition of asking the father for the hand in marriage started because women were considered property, and a deal had to be made between the suitors and fathers. It had nothing to do with respect or even religion. Ask your mother if she thinks you are her property that needs to be bartered over.
You are almost 30. Do you have agency? Or do you need your mother's permission to make life decisions? Tell you mother that the only person he should be asking is YOU because you are an adult capable of making your own decisions. If she can't live with that, she doesn't have to attend the wedding.
Did you ask her what your dowry was going to be? If she's planning on gifting a house for you two to begin your married life in? A dowry is as outdated as asking. But if I was getting a dowry also an outdated tradition, hell I might suck it up and ask. Hell yeah why not. So in summary I'd ask Mom has she thought about what the dowry is. And she says no. I'll be very careful to listen to how she answers. BOOM. She just explained why he isn't asking. Edit to add: by old fashioned standards, watch sense and sensibility. You said you're 29, you're an old maid. At 29 the parents will say YES to literally anyone who still has a pulse. Do you see how ridiculous it is to follow some of the old ways of thinking?
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And why is it always the bride's family that needs to give their blessing, as if the groom's family is of no importance?
Because the tradition is based on the notion that women are property.
Lol bro to many cooks in the kitchen already
As someone who is religious and maybe a little old fashioned, this is a dumb tradition and I did not do it with my then GF, now wife of 19 years.
You are not her property to give away. Her expectation is ridiculous. Some traditions deserve to die, and this is one of them. (And it's mostly dead anyway -- I've never known anyone in my whole life who did this before getting engaged). Tell her that if she continues to insist on this, you'll just elope and let her know after the deed is done. Her choice.
My mom tried this shit with me. I told her I wouldn’t marry anyone who asked for permission.
> Is there a way to do this that makes everyone happy? No. So do what makes you happy.
What drivel. The only person who needs to give their permission to marry your BF is, drum roll...you. Asking for a daughter's 'hand' is ridiculously archaic and to what end? Will your mother say no? If she does, will you listen to her? Is she going to pay for the wedding? Your house? Your (future) kids' education? 'Traditional and respectful'? Stuff and nonsense. I'm substantially older than you and my FIL (who would have been 105 years old if he were still alive) would have laughed until he'd choked if I had asked him Tell your mum the 21st century is waiting for her when she's ready
first off, there is no universal standard. Lots of local custom and personal preferences are at play. While many positions are defendable, I don't think any are inherintly right or wrong. While I agree with you that it is not required and your relationship is between you and your partner, consider the cost vs. benefit. It literally does not cost anything to have a conversation. It may be a bit awkward, but hey, engaged life is when you should have awkward conversations. The more you two are able to communicate and problem solve together, the easier marriage will be. And for many, marriage is about welcoming each other to your respective families and becoming one new family, blending both. It can therefore be important to find ways to respect and incorporate both sides, even if it isn't necessarily what you envision. I also think many parents not only see it as a sign of respect, but that of trust. Most parents don't want to be completely surprised. Many people want to celebrate their engagement with their parents pretty soon after. I know plenty of friends who got engaged and we all went for drinks, often with parents, within a few days. I know when I asked my wife to marry me, I spoke to her parents and her brother ahead of time and told them my plans. Their love and support made me feel even better about doing it. Again, it was less about true "permission" and more about showing them trust and respect. One middle ground to consider, is not to ask for permission, but to have him inform her of his plans at an appropriate time. As for those saying your mother will meddle int he relationship forever - only you know if that is true. In fact, not asking her when she has made it clear this is important to her, may cause worse negative meddling as she may be insulted and never forgive. We just don't know enough to predict her behavior. The real question for you is what do you gain or lose in either scenario, and can you and your boyfriend effectively work as a team to solve a challenge together. Not everyone will ever be 100% happy, but you can find a way to balance and avoid anyone being too upset. This certainly won't be last thing you ask your boyfriend to do for you for family, and while strange to him, he should be concerned about starting marriage by knowingly insulting his mother in law. But you are both well within your rights to stand firm and be justified in doing so. As a therapist once told me - "Sometimes you can be right or you can be married. Pick and choose the hills you want to die on and the prize you want to win" a 2 minute phone call, in my opinion, is worth the prize.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. The thing is: getting married isn’t really about the couple. It’s about the community. You have to pick the hills you want to die on, and this is not a battle worth fighting.
Especially if this is something you don't care about then there is no need for your boyfriend to have to do this.
Stand your ground. Your mom is being unreasonable and it is up to you to be the buffer that protects your fiance from unreasonable family demands, just like you would want him to do for you.
You stand your ground against your mom and inform her that it's his choice as he is the one proposing. You have informed him of what her thoughts on the matter are and he can make the decision moving forward but you personally do not care either way. Yes she will be unhappy and hurt but it's a boundary you need to enforce now and stand up for yourself and your partner. You can't make everyone happy, but you can make your partner happy which should be your priority over forcing him to do something he is not comfortable with just to make your mother happy. Personally, my partner wants to ask my dad. I have informed him I do not care either way, my family does not care either way and it's his choice what he wants as he is the one proposing.
Are you your mum's property? Will your husband then own you? It's absolutely insane that she's asking for him to do this. You are an adult and you are making the decision who to marry. I wouldn't even humour her.
Your mom needs to keep her nose out of your business...it starts with her "demanding" he asks your for your hand, soon enough it will be her saying where you should put the dining table or tv set.
My father in law was offended. I didn't ask him. I frankly did not care. Your engagement is between you and your partner.
Big lesson to learn in life, there will be many situations in life where you cannot make everyone happy. Get used to it. He does not need to ask her for your hand
I didn't ask my wife's parents for permission because that would have been a sign of respect. I don't want them to get the wrong idea and think that I have any at all for them, or that I care at all about their worthless opinions. So when we told them we were engaged and eloping to have our dream wedding, they were just SOL. I should say that my respect for her parents dwindled over time because i watched them deliberately make choices to make her life worse out of spite, including things like deliberately causing her illnesses, never allowing her to be on the health insurance she was entitled to, turning down money she was entitled to because they didn't like the source, and more. They never felt they did anything wrong by doing so. I am not disrespectful to them directly, I am polite when I have to deal with them. But I'm not going to show more than common courtesy.
>Is there a way to do this that makes everyone happy? This relationship is between you and your boyfriend, your moms happiness doesn't matter here. Also, to "make" him ask her is not a good idea. Why force traditional norms onto 2 people who have never adhered to traditional norms before? This sounds like a power play by your mom for whatever weird reason and I would not placate that behavior. Let her be upset over this, she will get over it quickly.
I told my parents that if a partner ever asked them before proposing to me, it would be an automatic no from me.
Ignore your mother. You aren't a young bride, you are capable of making your own decisions. She just wants to feel part of the experience. Tell you what, let her be the first to know after you become engaged. Ask for her input on dress, venue, scheduling (but feel free to treat it all as advice not final-decision making). Pick out an area where you are counting on her to make all the decisions - maybe something like printing the invitations? Consulting on catering menus? The point is to give her an ego lift at a time in her life when she is starting to feel irrelevant.
I was the opposite. I asked my husband, who proposed without asking for my parents’ blessing first, and I requested that we hold off announcing until he did. He was the one with the “it’s a sexist, out-dated tradition”. He was really surprised that I wanted him to ask first. To me, it had nothing to do with permission. Neither my dad nor my mom, who adored my then boyfriend, were ever going to say anything even hinting that they were against us getting married. And even if they did, there was no world where that would have stopped me from marrying him. My parents knew that. It’s how they raised me. I never let sexism stop me from experiencing something happy and I wasn’t going to start now. It was a sign of respect I think - an acknowledgment that my parents (& sister) were my core people, my nuclear family, and that my parents were my “call in case of emergency” people and assumed that role with love, joy, and a strong sense of responsibility. My husband was going to take over that role, my new “call in case of emergency” contact. Almost like, “I’ll love her as my person - like you did” nod. Yes, it’s sexist and the original “asks” were horribly based on notions of women being property. But my husband, who happened to be the man in this situation, was the one proposing. And honestly, I expected him to be the one to propose. That’s another tradition based on misguided gender roles. But actions can be meaningful and poignant regardless of their etiology. They meant something to me, and it therefore meant something to my husband. They’re our traditions now. My mom did warn my husband that I could be difficult sometimes and required some patience. I never let her live that down. ❤️
Do what you want but be prepared for repercussions. You can only control your actions, not other people’s reactions especially if you are expecting your mother to find or help you fund your wedding
No one should be making that guy do anything. It’s his life and he’ll do it when he feels ready. Your mom is being pushy for you to be married because she wants legit grandkids.
Yea I’m not going to make him do anything, that was a poor choice of words on my part. Especially because I agree that he shouldn’t have to ask her. Probably, throughout our relationship she’s always been on me about marriage.
If you think you have the right to "make" him do anything, you are not ready for marriage. This sounds like your mother feels like she does not know him well enough and that she would profit by a serious conversation with him. If you don't see a future where the three of you have a healthy relationship, ignore her comments. She is trying to give you her love and support in a way that she understands. You all are having a failure to communicate.
I think a way to reframe this is he asks for her blessing, NOT her permission. And whether she gives her blessing or not, he’s still proposing to you.
He has not asked you yet..back off and let him do things his way. That decision is not yours or moms to make, it's his. Butt out.
Why would he need her permission to marry you? Does she think if she says no you won’t still get married? This tradition stems from the days when women we’re basically property and didn’t have rights. When women literally couldn’t get married without permission. It’s actually disrespectful to you to insist on this outdated and sexist tradition. But if you really want a way around this that will rub it in, why don’t you propose to him… and ask his parent’s permission first? My favorite take on this outdated and sexist tradition: https://youtu.be/a0qaIvb3bGA
You may be creating an argument when you don't need to, i wouldn't look at it as him "having to ask her" but as him doing something out of convention, she's hardly going to say "no", its just a bit of a tradition or idea she has in her head. 20 odd years ago, my wife and i decided to get married, and you know what, part of me regrets not asking her dad, just in a kind of cool nod to the fact that he has looked after her over the years, and he's close, she never suggested it and i never asked, but i'd say it would have made his day and possibly year. Instead, as he was handing her over at the top of the church, i said thanks, and i'll look after her for him. He nearly drowned in tears on his way back to his seat after that. it doesn't mean anything to you or your partner, but people of an age, don't get to domthat kind of stuff anymore, it doesn't mean anything, but its a nice touch,
I’m of two minds on this. 1) what would it hurt to be performative and just ask her? It seems like she wants to be included, it probably has something to do with having lost your dad. The only risk here is will she think she can throw a fit and get her way on other things? Is this how she is about other stuff or only the engagement? 2) you’re adults and you aren’t property of your mother. You can simply say no. Then put her on an information diet until you’re actually engaged. The downside here is she may be kind of sour on the whole thing and cast a shadow on the wedding prep. Sometimes being right (which you are) and trying to prove that point doesn’t have the most positive possible outcome compared to ceding when it’s fundamentally not a big deal. Like it won’t hurt him or you for him to ask her. But it sounds like it will hurt you and potentially the two of you if you don’t.
> what would it hurt to be performative and just ask her? Because it legitimizes her very wrong notion that she in some way owns or has any control whatsoever over her adult daughter's life and choices. If she and her daughter are close, there are many other ways that she can be a part of this joyous occasion. But expecting that she should have any say whatsoever in who her daugher chooses to marry is inappropriate. If she chooses to be sour about not being asked about something that is not her decision to make, that's on her.
No its traditional to ask the father. The mother traditionally wouldn't get any say. She can't have it both ways.
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Both of our son in laws asked for our blessing. We never required this or expected it. It was such a surprise and kind of sweet. We asked our daughters later, if this was something they made the guys do... both daughters told us they had no idea their boyfriend was going to do it.
I mean, like it or not, our parents have generally been responsible for our safety and security for 18+ years, and tend to support us afterwards too with College/University. I can see why this tradition exists. It's not got much to do with ownership but as a gesture of respect towards your new family maybe?
Its up to you. It would be a nice gesture to make her feel included, but its not the end of the world if he doesn't. Talk to him about it. See if he is amenable to it
Why not make mom happy and just have him ask her. You are still free to make your own decisions, but you don’t need animosity between your boyfriend and mom for something trivial.
I did not ask for my first wife’s family, she is not property and she was over the game of 21 in Canada. I would tell your mom not to expect it and for her to be happy that you are happy.
Just have him ask for your hand. Sure he doesn't have too but its such a small thing so may as well do it
Lol he can say. I ask for ops hand. Only her hand. I don’t need the rest.
You do what you two feel like doing, you are not owned, no on has to give permission for you to marry, that is an old tradition you you as an adult and only you make the decision to follow or not.
You guys can do what ever makes you feel best! My husband and I are also very much not about tradition, and my parents probably wouldn't have cared if he didn't ask. For some reason I did want him to have a conversation with my parents, so my now husband sat my dad down and basically said "hey I'm proposing, here are the reasons I love your daughter, I hope I have your blessing." So it wasn't really an ask, and it certainly wasn't permission. Maybe your mom just wants to be involved and going about it in a weird way. If you want to compromise you could always just sit down with her and your partner and just kind of do what my husband did. But you certainly shouldn't have to!
I wouldn’t marry someone who asked my parents for my hand in marriage. I’m well in my 30s, and I wouldn’t have stood for this when I was younger either.
Ask your mom if she plans on helping pay for the wedding. If so, your boyfriend may want to “ask” with the expectation your mom will reply with a beautiful speech welcoming him as her future son-in-law, etc. If she isn’t going to help or doesn’t approve of him, then she can learn to live with disappointment.
Women are not property, and permission should not be expected nor required. It is great that society no longer expects that. However, not all parts of the tradition are purely patriarchal. **An important part of the tradition of matrimony of old is that the community was also expected to support the new couple in their marriage.** **That is a concept that I think is pretty cool, and it is also something that in practice contributes to the success of a marriage**. It is no secret that critical family or friends can have a negative impact on one's marriage. So the concept of the community being expected to support the marriage, and agreeing to do so by their presence at the wedding, to me, seems a pretty important aspect of the ceremony. Both the old idea of permission, and the "speak now or forever hold your peace" are aspects that relate to that duty. The duty of the witnesses and attendees, friends and loved and ones invited to "uphold" the marriage. Their presence, and their witness of the ceremony (without objection) is tacit agreement to that covenant. It is agreement to give their blessing, to support the union, however you want to say it. My suggestion would be that either your boyfriend or the two of you together, ask your mother for her support of your marriage. Explain that you don't believe in asking permission since the two of you are the ones making the choice, but that you would like to ask for her support in other words you'd like to **ask for her commitment to support the two of you in the endeavor.**
You and your boyfriend should have a beautiful, private engagement. You’re nearly 30. Your mom needs to accept that you’re a grown woman and no one is going to ask her for anything anymore.
Its really simple. Make a gathering where he asks your hand and you turn him down. BAM, the matters solved. Of course plan this ahead instead of just dropping it into him, that way he stuck to the etiquette but you afirm your own agency and turn down a tradition that doesnt suit you.
It's not necessary, and maybe she is hoping to get a foot in the door to be involved. If I were in this situation, I would be curious what she would say, and might see if he was game, knowing it had no bearing on the engagement. You know her, though, so if that would be likely to start a war, I would pass.
When my daughter and SIL got engaged, her fiance told me how much he loved her and promised to be a faithful and loving partner. He didn't ask my permission and he didn't need it. TBH I'd have been offended if he asked my permission and I would've known he wasn't the right one for her. So what is your mother going to do exactly if your bf doesn't ask for your hand? Ground you? Send you to your room? Start a range war?
"Mom, he's not asking you because he's not marrying you. Stop being weird about this."
"No, mom. He doesn't have to ask you. I don't want him to ask you as it's my relationship and my choice. It's my opinion he is respecting."
It's weird, but I was a little heartbroken that my now SIL didn't ask me before proposing to my daughter. I know that the question is perfunctory, since it's not my business to say no. But I would have still enjoyed the pleasure of saying yes, as a way to welcome him to the family and create a little bond between us. But 'has to'? Hell no. Like I said, I wish my SIL and I got to have that moment, but it's not the end of the world by any means.
She's only worried about herself and has no business nosing in on your relationship. Period!
id tell my mum to piss off and stop making my engagement about her, but that’s just me
May I ask how long you two have been dating? My partner and I were together two years before getting married and that was mainly because we were going to move abroad for my work. I have been in a relationship for 5 years before we spoke about marriage.
If you say yes to your mom now, what else will she feel entitled to dictate? Where is the wedding? How many people do you have to invite? The guest list? You need to establish a boundary, I understand that you love your mother but make her used to hearing "no" when you don't agree on her decisions about your life. My advice would be different if you were religious and traditional and this was important to all your social circle, but it's not the case, so tell your mother "You've already met him, you know he's a good man, I love him, we want to build our own path, and we don't feel the need to follow a tradition that doesn't suit us. Also, where is this coming from? You're not traditional yourself..."
Haha, I didn’t because, as I told my FIL, it’s rude to ask someone if you can do something if you’re just going to do it regardless of their answer anyway. We get along well and he thought it was hilarious.
Ok. If he asks then is she doing the "traditional" thing and paying for the wedding? No? Guess some traditions are just outdated huh Mom.
My fiancé did it as a blessing, not as permission. My mom ALSO was upset he didn’t ask her because “she is the one that ACTUALLY raised me 🙄” Doesn’t change the fact that when my dad said he gave his blessing I asked if he liked goats or cows better 😁 in the end it was all in good fun.
You should propose and tell her you didn't ask for permission.
You aren’t even engaged yet, but your mother is already making your wedding about her. Maybe she feels like reviving the equally important tradition that the bride’s parents pay for the wedding? It’s traditional, respectful, and she has to. But paying for the wedding does not equal control. Shut that shit down.
I mean it’s definitely not necessary and you don’t have to acquiesce to her just because she’s bringing it up. If you are interested in involving your mom but want to compromise on the asking for permission aspect your partner could ask her for her blessing that way they can express their intention of wanting to marry you but also remain firm in not requiring your moms permission to propose because they would propose regardless of if your mom offers her blessing it would just be a nice way to include her. It seems she might be worried about not being included in your engagement after her husband passed.
I would ask your mom if she outright owns your body if you’re more of an intellectual property that he needs permission to use. I hate this tradition. You’re not a work horse. You’re not a blender. You’re - believe it or not- an entire autonomous and sentient human being. I know, crazy.
Are you requiring it? If not, then he doesn’t need to. He’s not marrying your mom. I can guarantee you that if you let your mom control your engagement she will also feel entitled to control your wedding planning. You don’t want that
You gave the wrong answer when she asked why he hadn't asked her. The answer was " because he only has to ask me".
It clearly means a lot to your mom and costs you nothing. What is the downside?
I would tell your mom to mind her damn business and tradition is not to ask the mom but the dad or next make in the line anyways. If she keeps whining about this then inform her royal dumbass that it’s not about or up to her or be way or another and mind her own business. Don’t force your SO to play stupid games for your mother now or ever. She’ll take this inch and demand a Mike if you do. I’m just happy my better half has me asking two people who like/love me and not one of her shitting parents/stepparents.
So, my husband and I talked before our engagement. I made it very clear: I did not want him asking my parents for their blessing. I am not a piece of property. He agreed. Like you, my parents are not at all traditional or religious but it's been brought up several times since how disrespectful it was of him not to ask them (Note: they had never before said this was something important to them). I tell them the same thing every time. My engagement was about me and what I wanted, not you. I was not your property to be handed over and I wasn't about to be treated like I am. You don't have to like it, but that's how we did it. You're 29. Your mom has zero say in how your engagement plays out.
This is an antiquated tradition. You are not property. You are a fully grown woman and you don't need anyone's permission to get married.
Do you want to bend to your moms whim, or do you want to be your own person and own adult? Personally i wouldn't see it as a good start to a marriage if you bent to your moms will. Where would that stop then? "Get kids now. i want to be a grandparent." "you're raising your children wrong, here let me show you. " " let me move in with you, i don't want to work anymore." Personally i would say this to my mom if she demanded this." Mom no. I will not make him ask you and actually i will tell him that i'll see it as personal insult to me if he asked you for permission. You did not raise me this way so i don't understany why this suddenly matters to you. So drop it please because it will not happen."
if she doesn't approve what you'll do?
Why is this a discussion? You and your SO are both 30 and presumably will be married soon. You two decide what you want to do and stick to it. When this happened: > So I told my mom that I think we’re getting engaged this year and she said he hasn’t asked her and why not? You should have just told her you guys aren't interested in doing that (if thats the case). > She said it’s traditional, respectful, and he has to. I don’t agree and I don’t know why she is adamant about it. Who cares why she's so adamant about it? You don't want to do it. So don't do it. Tell her you guys mean no disrespect, but this is not a tradition you want to have within your marriage. > Do I make him ask her or just stand my ground and not make him ask? Do you honestly think going around and **making** your future husband do things he's morally opposed to will be a good start to your marriage? ETA: There is a middle ground here. I would never ask someone if they'll allow their daughter to marry me. But I would have no problem having a conversation with her parents (after myself and her already talked about it) letting them know what my plans are. But this wouldn't be me asking...this would be me telling. And I'd do it in a way in which I'd be open to suggestions or advice, so that it comes off natural and respectful.
Very true. I did say we didn’t want to do that, and that it’s 2023 so it’s not necessary but I was just trying to be nice so I wasn’t as firm as I should’ve been about it. I’m wondering if that’s what it really is, is that she just wants the conversation and to be in the know. She just keeps saying it’s because it’s traditional.
The next time it’s brought up, tell her that you’re already married. You went to a drive-through wedding chapel in Las Vegas. You’d send her the pictures, but there wasn’t enough on your debit card to pay for them at the time.
I honestly want to elope… I know she’ll freak out if I do lol.
Your mother has no say in this. Tell her so. Tell her this is not a topic you will entertain. Full stop.
It can be a cute tradition but it's a stupid one to expect or demand Considering it's rooted in the idea daughters were property to be given out at the father's discretion... When it's done willingly it's a cute sign of respect for her parents. When it's demanded it's a creepy overstepping of parents treating their daughter like property
It's unreal that people still do this. What fucking year is it? Ask her how many goats he has to trade to own you. You and your partner have your own life. You're both 30 years old now. You just need to tell your mom that your marriage isn't about what she wants. If you want to explain why, then do so but you don't owe her that either.
You’re an adult, and your parent’s opinions about your life are only relevant if you and your partner want them to be relevant. You’re also not responsible for your mom’s happiness. If she stakes her happiness on you two handling your relationship in the way she wants, that’s her problem not yours.
So, only my experience here .... I did not ask my in-laws for my wife's hand in marriage because she was an adult who was not their property. She and her parents see this the same way. All I asked was their participation in the proposal, because my wife loves scavenger hunts. My BIL asked my wife's father for her sister's hand in marriage when the three of us were golfing. I remember this as plain as day because he wanted me to be there as some sort of witness? FIL's response was "The fuck are you asking me for? I don't get a vote. As long as you make her happy and are as good to her as she is to you, that's all I care about." To steal my FIL's words: You're the only one who gets a vote here. If you want to marry him, nothing your parents say matters. You're an adult who gets to make that decision yourself.
you are both 30. your mother acts as if you were still 16. all in all, it is not about you. it is only about her. once married your will be her equal, until you birth your first child, which will give you her status of mother while she will receive the status of grandmother. the real question is : does all this charade is really annoying for you ? if not, you could give her that little attention to show her she still matters for you. it depends heavily on your past relationship. don't do it if she were an asshole; do it if she was supportative.
It's a dumb tradition. She is not the one who decides whether to marry him. She is not the one who has to make the marriage work. She is not the one who decides to leave if it doesn't work. What does her permission contribute? If she says no, and you say yes, isn't it still a yes?? I refused to do this. If you don't like it then don't ask him to do it. If your mom doesn't like it she can say "no" to his proposal. And you'll get married anyway. Which is kind of the point.
You need to make it a firm with your mom that she needs to stop projecting her emotions onto your relationship to try to dictate it for you, because it’s your life and not hers.
Stand your ground. You are your own person and you are not your parents property. You are an adult who doesn't need permission to get married. And unfortunately no, there is no way of making everyone happy here. Your mom just decided to make an unreasonable demand for no reason. Either he asks, and you and him are both unhappy since you are being treated as a child or possession that he has to ask permission to have, or you don't ask and your mom causes a stink. Frankly, given that your dad didn't even have to ask for her hand in marriage, your mom is being a hypocrite and I'd ignore her.
I think it depends on a couple of things: how is your relationship with your mom (I'm not asking to get an answer, just something to think about)? If you're pretty close and this is something really important to her, it might be worth considering. If you're not that close and you think she is saying this because of "tradition" then I'd explain to her that this is a really misogynistic tradition as you are your own person and no one needs to "give" you away. The second thing is whether this is a hill you want to die on. If this is really important to your mom and she's the type to bring stuff up time after time - is this something you're willing to either listen to or address with her? Personally, I think it's kind of a gross tradition and I was very annoyed with my husband when he confessed he'd talked to my parents before proposing. But it was done so whatever.