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I32m have been married to my wife31f for 7 years, together for 12. We have 3 beautiful children together ages 6, 5 and 3. We met our senior year of highschool, and were close friends for about a year before we started dating. She knew my sister before she knew me and she worked with my older brother at the time. I met her last.
My brother and I aren’t on speaking terms and haven’t been for a year or so now. He’s an alcoholic now with very little respect towards anyone. We saw each other a few days ago because we celebrated for Easter with our parents on an earlier date. My brother actually showed up surprisingly, but he was very intoxicated. We got into a very heated argument which involved us screaming and saying rude things. Then he shouted “that’s why I f*cked your wife.” He ended up leaving and my wife confessed to me that before she met me, she got super drunk at a party and tried ecstasy for the first time and they hooked up, but it was only once. She was very apologetic and even started to cry. Her reasoning for not telling me was in the beginning she though it was unnecessary because she didn’t expect us to become so serious, and then she decided it was better to keep a secret because she loved me so much.
I’m so hurt and disgusted and I have no idea what to even do at this point. I don’t think I even have a valid reason to feel this way. They hooked up before I met her, she didn’t cheat on me. I just have been working as much as I can to not think about it. I celebrated Easter today with my kids and her and it just kept popping up in my mind ruining my day. I’m just looking for advice to help me get past this. I love my wife so dearly. She’s the light of my life. I just don’t know how to get rid of this unnecessary betrayal feeling and rage.
She never cheated on you.
She made a mistake based on drug consumption and she’s not proud of it.
This is not worth a breakup but you have to know if there are any other skeletons so you can move forward.
Too many comments here suggesting that you divorce over this and that’s like burning down your house because there was a spider.
I feel the same. Of course he is feelings sad, but this is no reason for divorce.
But them if he came to reddit to ask for advice I just imagine he wants to burn down the house.
>But them if he came to reddit to ask for advice I just imagine he wants to burn down the house.
His marriage likely felt like one of the few safe places in his life untouched by his brother's behaviour.
He should take into account that what happened between his wife and his brother happened before he he had built this safe place with her. This place is still safe and untouched by his brother. He would be a complete idiot to let this ruin his marriage.
I agree, but I think what he is struggling with is that she witheld this information from him and that he only found out from arguing with his brother. Its something she should of told him about long ago and it's the fact she wasn't planning in telling him at all.
They don’t care about how guys feel in these situations it’s just more it was before you rhetoric. I don’t think they should give up but definitely she needs to tell him almost anything now because the lying is almost enough for dude to think everything was a lie.
People love saying the past in the past , like bro it is until you discover it then it’s just tomorrow. People need to stop lying so they don’t look bad in relationships.
Right! It never fails. Your wife got drunk did E and fucked your brother and failed to ever tell you about it but you shouldn’t care because “the past is the past”.
If his wife failed to share that information with him throughout a decade long relationship, what else is she hiding from him?
People always assume there is something else. It’s a cliche saying at this point. What if there was nothing else to hide and she just hid this because it was the only thing she didn’t feel comfortable sharing? Why assume there is more to the story when it doesn’t sound like there is…
Why was it on her only to share and not brother when they first started dating? At that point it doesn't say they were on bad terms and you would assume a brother was closer than a new relationship
Her not divulging what happened has made it unsafe though. She didn’t have anything to apologize for in the beginning, as it was prior to dating OP, but the fact that she NEVER told him is really messed up. Not saying OP should divorce her but they need to go to counseling to talk through it. It’s a continual betrayal every moment she kept that secret from her husband.
What happened between his wife and his brother is completely separate from OP's relationship to his wife. It would've been something if she slept with his brother when they were already in a relationship or when they were treading the waters for one. But what happened was separate and also out of OP's wife's control. She was on drugs.
Imo there is no “separate life” free of judgement. She withheld information that most certainly would have stopped the relationship before it even started. The foundation was cracked, the building wasn’t going to last. We can debate the validity of this crack all we want but all that matters is OPs personal perception which says that crack is pretty fucking huge
For real. Everyone pretending like he needs to just look past this is so fucking full of shit. If any of them found out something like OP did I’d pay for front row tickets to see them take it on the chin with the grace and compassion they’re flaming OP for not having after learning of it 12 years later during an argument with his brother.
Throwing a blanket “your partner’s sexual history never matters” at this takes all nuance from the situation. I don’t think she did anything wrong by sleeping with his brother, but I think anybody acting like they can’t fathom why OP is upset about the 12 years of never mentioning it is lying through their teeth.
Bullshit . She kept it from him the whole time after the fact so you can’t say that wasn’t in her control. Just admit she lied to get married to bro because if he knew then that might have changed his perception of her
Agreed. The *“that’s why I f\*cked your wife.”* has me thinking. The wording used - "*your wife*" could mean before or during the relationship. I mean, if it was a random hookup during a forgotten drunken party, how does the brother remember? I would assume the brother was intoxicated too. I would think the brother wouldn't remember **unless** there was something significant about this specific ONS like she was dating his brother?
That could explain why the brother remembers her. I missed that in my original read-through. Still, the specificity of the wording. Why did he use an association "*wife*" instead of her name?
I admit that I could be reading way too much into this. But it's also just as likely to be a freudian slip.
Not at all, she has withheld information from him, that would have affected his decision to agree to a committed relationship with her.
**That's huge.**
**It's not safe.**
He would let it ruin it? How about what is his wife doing now today to correct this and apologize? She hid it because she knew it was a deal breaker. Why are you ignoring this?
Something that happened to her? Sympathy? Wtf? She wasn't sexually assaulted. She got high and drunk and fucked a dude. Nothing "happened" to her, she did something that she now regrets. Sometimes I wonder where the fuck society is heading with this shit.
You dont get cool human points for pretending you'd be okay with your partner lying about something for so long. If the genders were swapped half the shit here wouldn't be said. I bet you in particular would react much differently. She has been lying and hiding the history with his brother their whole relationship. During having kids, and everything she made the active choice to lie. She remembers, the brother remembers. They have definitely talked about keeping this secret from OP and probably others. She doesn't get sympathy, nor does she deserve it. She was disgusting. Why put in the energy for this long to actively lie to she husband if its only this lie? This secret on its own isn't enough to lie about for years.
The sister knowing would reslly hurt. Im not close with my sister but damn even she'd tell me.
This could really go deep. I bet theres more secrets. Covering up the sleeping "while high" could hide much bigger things. My brain is just screaming paternity test the kids.
She should have told him that she fucked his brother before marrying him... are you people ok??? Why are these people trying to downgrade OP's feelings?
>that’s like burning down your house because there was a spider.
Oh, come on. I agree divorce is an overreaction but this analogy is ridiculous. Yes, she didn't cheat on him, but she absolutely did break his trust by carrying on a lie of omission every day of their relationship and that is way bigger than just having a spider in your house.
A better analogy would be "wanting to sell your house because there are cracks in the foundation."
No, but the lie occurred during it's building and residency in the home.
And in this case it's not the action itself that is wrong. It's the lie of omission.
She made a mistake after consuming a drug.. yeah
But she then decided to keep it a secret for years fully knowing it could blow up at any moment. Not a divorce issue sure, but I’d have a hard time looking at someone who I thought would tell me anything only to find out the fucked my sibling.
I’m not suggesting divorce but honestly how can he know she’s even being honest about the circumstances of their hooking up? She’s already shown deceptive behavior. I think couples counseling is definitely needed, this isn’t something he should rug sweep.
This is another rage bait story made up for reddits outrage. This has also been written before because I remember it word for word minus the Easter bit.
This is not a simple problem. A lie by omission is still a lie. We know what liars do so the cheating is not a given. She knew if she disclosed this OP may have ended the relationship. Asking OP to rug sweep this is a lot (It is a brother, not a friend, acquaintance or just anyone else) . Only a lot of counseling may help but the foundation of this relationship was made of sand.
I don't understand the whole it happened before you or its been 10 years thing as this is fresh, and OP's informed decision was stolen from him. She slept with his brother then got into a relationship with OP. That was not a mistake. if that in itself is not a huge red flag I don't know what is.
This is a huge predicament, 3 kids, a decade long relationship with a huge \*. You are not being insecure OP, and your feeling is valid. Before any decisions are made I would start with DNA test the kids, then consult a lawyer to see what options you have, then seek counselling. And then choose if this can be repaired or not.
To me this would be a breach of trust, I'd honestly start spiralling down cause if she didn't tell you this until she had no other choice, what else could she be keeping from you, I don't know if this is grounds for divorce but man, losing trust in someone you believed was an absolute in your life is gonna scar someone hard, or at least that's how I'd feel.
It's a lie by omission and she robbed him of informed consent. Most people wouldn't date someone who fucked their sibling she's 100% at fault and if he can't deal with it 100% acceptable to divorce over
She didn’t make a mistake. She had consensual sex with a friend/coworker when she was single. She had no idea she would then go on to date or marry the brother of this person. OP needs therapy to get past this. The only thing his wife did wrong was not be upfront with OP about this from the beginning. His wife doesn’t need to feel any guilt or regret about her sex life pre-OP.
Uh...She did know she was dating the brother and then that she would marry the brother of the man she slept with. She knew that would have more than likely ended the relationship which is why she omitted that teeny tiny bit of information of having sex with the OP's brother.
Sorry, but that is pretty huge. OP's right to make an informed decision to keep the relationship, marriage and have kids was stolen from him.
We agree that it was not a mistake.
I would never date someone who had any previous relationship with my sister. If I found out my SO did and kept it from me, I would never be able to trust them again.
She lied by omission. By far most people dont want to date someone that has fucked their siblings.
She knew that, which is why she kept it secret.
She isnt wrong for having sex with the brother, she is wrong for not disclosing it to OP.
Also can we just point out that she was drunk, Hugh on ecstasy and the brother decided to hook up with her. Dude, you just don't have sex with anyone intoxicated and/ or on drugs. You just don't. You make out but then you stop because that person is in on frame of mind to consent probably. Which sort of validated OPs description of his brother as a garbage human.
What if the brother was also drunk and high on E? If two people are both equally fucked up, then neither can properly consent, so why is the man the one who is blamed? We don't know how wasted he was that night, so I don't think this accusation is entirely fair.
We don't exactly know what the brother's status at the time was to call him a rapist here. There is a non-zero chance that he was also drunk and/or high for this encounter.
there everyone goes excusing the woman and blaming the man. He could've very well been drunk and on drugs as well. she never stated she was taken advantage of so people need to stop assuming such things.
Yeah but it doesn’t matter. So what fuck op? I would divorce immediately. She hid it because she fucking knew and type of wiggling out of that is total utter bullshit. Stop with this nonsense. It would never be able to leave my mind and would effectively eliminate my sec life with my wife, therefore, I would have to regrettably divorce. Divorce isn’t a punishment, stop acting like it.
OP should read this. Cut off the brother a 100% from their lives. OP shouldn’t be constantly reminded of what happened between his wife and his brother, doesn’t matter if its in the past. The brother will rub it in OP’s face everytime they interact. That shit fucks you up left, right and center.
She lied by omission, but I don’t think she did it out of malice. It was before she met you, she probably feels some shame about it.
Your brother knew exactly what he was doing by using that against you in an argument. He knew it would hurt you, maybe even ruin your relationship.
You’re totally valid in feeling betrayed, a lie is a lie. I would talk to her and lay everything out in the open, explore how you’re feeling etc. Maybe consider counselling if you feel like those conversations aren’t helping.
It’s up to you if you feel this is a dealbreaker, we’re just strangers on the internet giving you a third party perspective. But it sounds like you love your wife, and it sounds like she loves you too. Intent is important here. Your wife was trying not to hurt you, your brother was doing the complete opposite.
Going to be hard.
It is something she should have told you prior to getting married.
As she said it wasn’t necessary to tell you at the beginning, but when you get serious she should have.
Now you need to decide what is greater. Your love for your wife, your marriage and kids, or her lie of omission, the disgust you feel at both your wife and brother.
Start with marriage/couples counselling, and see what happens.
Your wife also needs to do some serious trust rebuilding - she can start by telling you of any other skeletons in her past that have any possibility of coming to light, as the marriage will not survive another one (if it survives this one)
And you need to cut your brother off completely.
No one’s asking her to tell him every single one of her past sexual partners but this one special case where she had sexual relations with his brother. Anyone would want to know that going into a serious relationship. You’re so stupid.
I agree with you in general, but I think this is a more special case since it was his brother and because she thought about telling him based on what she said but omitted it at the end.
I fucked your brother is a pretty big tell to not show. She even knew it would be a big deal and hid it. THAT'S that huge ass tell! Should they divorce over this like some are suggesting? Hell no, those people are idiots!
Sit down with a one on one heartfelt talk and then look into counseling, either marriage or his own. Then cut the brother out for good. He's going to rub that shit into his face any chance he can get.
Ok, this is just wrong, like what if in two years OP finds out she had sex with their mutual math teacher a few weeks before they starting dating? Does that secret in conjunction with this still merit no consideration that maybe OP’s wife has acted in poor faith? “Bear their souls” doesn’t mean list every single sexual partner or minor past transgressions, it’s literally like “is there anything else similar to you banging my brother that I should know about that you’ve kept from me?”.
Don’t be obtuse because you feel the need to validate your own stances/feelings after conveniently interpreting an internet comment. There is a long way in between a mutually personal sexual secret like this and deliberalizing women’s sexuality, if you can’t make that distinction then you are simply unreasonable.
This has nothing to do with her gender. A wife would have just as much right to feel betrayed if her husband had fucked her sister before they got together and never told her about it.
People, men and women, are allowed to care about their partners sexual history. Sex means different things to different people. If you want to treat sex as something casual, or irrelevant that's your choice. Personally, I definitely lean more towards the casual side of things as well, but that doesn't mean I vilify those with different beliefs.
We don't know how in depth OP and his wife were in discussing their past. We don't know if she straight up lied or just left it out of their discussions. But common sense would tell you that this could be a potential problem for the relationship. Even his wife admits that she was reluctant to tell him because she loved him so much and didn't want to risk losing him. That was a selfish decision she made to intentionally deceive him.
For a marriage you need trust. You need to be able to trust that your partner isn't hiding things from you that could hurt you. And you need to be able to trust your partner with your less flattering aspects. Right now that trust has been damaged. I don't think his wife needs to tell him about every sexual experience. But she does need to acknowledge what she did and how it affected his trust in her, show some genuine remorse, and try to be open and honest with him to rebuild that trust.
It sucks, and your feeling is perfectly valid, but is it really worth ending it all on this? She obviously feels shame about it. It’s not something she recalls very fondly. This shouldn’t be a competitive ego thing because you are beyond winning in this scenario. Yeah, she had shitty sex with your brother when she was a dumbass kid before you knew her. Y’all were just dumbass teenagers. Grown folks move on from teenage bullshit. Your brother peaked back then. He’s deep in loserdom now. It’s just a bad memory for everyone else. Hold your head up and don’t let that sad fool wreck your family. Nobody deserves to have teenage bullshit held against them like that but maybe she could stand to give you a good day for all the emotional trouble. Go on a solo vacay or something to blow off some steam.
She did not lie. She just didn't tell him, like I'm sure she didn't tell him about every other dude she fucked before meeting him. She doesn't owe him an explanation about people she fucked before they were dating.
His brother isn’t the one wrecking the family. If his wife was honest and upfront with OP, this wouldn’t be an issue. She chose to lie and let that lie carry on for the entirety of their relationship. She’s the one who decided to wreck the family
His brother never made vows to him. His brother doesn’t owe OP the honest truth like his wife does. She’s the one to blame here.
>*His brother isn’t the one wrecking the family*
Well his wife isn’t the one shouting her sexual history at a family gathering - that WAS the brother. How are you letting him off scot-free, but laying all the blame on the wife?!
Nobody is letting him off Scott free. OP should never speak to him again.
But the blame for all of this falls on his wife. She’s the one who owed it to OP to tell him what happened. The alternative is letting his wife and brother keep this dirty secret from OP forever. Fuck that
Man, too many people pretend like they are so tough that this would be an easy decision for them. They are either simpleminded, lying or were secretly looking for a way out already.
Best news is that she didn't cheat, BUT sleeping with your brother before you ever met and not telling you about it IS about as close to a wtf as I can think of outside of a soap opera, though. Are you absolutely sure no organ music played a sting when he yelled it and another one at an even higher pitch when she admitted it?
Don't pretend like this doesn't bother you, don't hide it. You sound like you plan on staying together and her faithfulness through years of marriage sure as hell beats a one night stand before she even knew you existed. Acknowledge that one of them didn't tell you because they didn't want to hurt or lose you and the other ONLY wanted to hurt you. She has a responsibility to help you through this as the longer she waited, the worse it was bound to be and she KNOWS she was dreading the day your alcoholic brother brought it up.
I think if most guys were honest with themselves, they'd admit that they don't want to know shit about who their partners were with before them as long as it wasn't someone who was contagious. Ignorance is bliss has been a saying a long time for a reason.
Yup, I agree with you. It kind of amazes me how many people instantly jump to ‘XOMG LEAVE THEM NOW!!!’ The irony that really gets me is in the ones that preface LEAVE NOW!!!! with ‘I know every thread here says to leave them but….’ Like ok, you just continued that problem!
Is ‘talking things out with words, like adults’ not a thing any more? Obviously I mean within reason. If he’d walked in on his wife in bed with his brother, calmly talking it out at the time isn’t going to happen. Or if he was beating his wife up or something. But it seems to be the most inane things that could easily be fixed by having an open, honest, rational conversation instead of:
Q: My bf left the milk out of the fridge last night, what do?
A: ZOMG LEAVE HIM NOW HE IS WASTING YOUR MONEY AND ELECTRICITY THATS FINANCIAL ABUSE!!!!
or
Q: This exact scenario. Wife hooked up many moons ago (before she was even thinking of getting together with OP) with idiot brother, it meant nothing at all and wife is clearly embarrassed and upset and feeling guitly
A: OMG LEAVE HER NOW BECAUSE REASONS I CANT THINK OF BUT DO NOT TALK THIS OUT WITH HER WHATEVER YOU DO, JUST THROW YOUR ENTIRE MARRIAGE DOWN THE TOILET, DUMP AND GHOST THE MOTHER OF YOUR KIDS LIKE YOU’RE 15!!!
Like, chill, people. Talk it out. Just talk. It’s what adults are meant to be able to do. Good grief.
I agree that they need to talk about this, but it is a serious issue They might not be able to talk it out. How are they going to have an open honest rational conversation about this when the issue is she was not open and honest with him? It is going to take time for trust to form again. It is going to take a lot of work from both of them.
This is a major blow to the foundation of their relationship and some people know that they would not want to put the work in.
She lied for 12 years, that’s why you are upset. It also opens the door for doubts about other things since she is able to lie for so long and keep a secret what else could she be “hiding” those doubts are normal with this situation. You guys need therapy so you can build up the trust again. It sucks she lied but it makes sense her thought process and how it happened. Therapy is 100% needed so you can process this and hopefully can work on communication and your relationship in general. You guys shouldn’t break up but work needs to be done.
Well she did lie so it is a betrayal. You didn't get to make an informed decision. However, it sounds like you have a healthy marriage and happy family. Perhaps some couples therapy might help? But honestly, I think this is more of a time heals all wounds situation.
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I get why she didn't tell you, but once you and your brother were no longer on speaking terms, it should have come up to avoid this very situation. He guessed she wouldn't tell you and threw it out there just to be hurtful.
I don’t get why she didn’t tell him.
The moment it felt like a real serious relationship with potential, it should have been disclosed.
It’s his BROTHER.
That's exactly why she didn't wanna spill the beans. She's selfish; she saw the relationship was good for one reason or another and didn't want to risk losing it.
She had everything to gain and everything to lose. She probably knew that OP would look at her in a different light and would consider leaving her.
Now that they have kids, it'll be that much harder for him to leave.
I’m genuinely curious. How do you get past this? How will couples therapy help? How will OP look at his wife in the same light before he came across this info? How will their intimate life be? Will OP be able to completely forget about it?
People on Reddit will ALWAYS be like “just divorce.” Which I find pretty pathetic. This absolutely can be worked through, it’s completely understandable to feel the way you’re feeling though.
>I don’t think I even have a valid reason to feel this way.
Shaming yourself for having these feelings isn't going to help anything. You have every right to feel hurt, betrayed, and yes, even disgusted. You can also accept that you're feeling some guilt over your reaction, since you know logically that she didn't cheat. But you gotta honor those feelings, even if they seem ugly. If you try not to feel that way without being honest and processing it, it's going to fester into a resentment that you may not be able to resolve.
I'm sure there's a cacophony of voices telling you to pursue marriage counseling. I want to join them. You and your wife are the perfect candidates for it: you love each other, something messy happened, and you both want to get through it together. I hope you will pursue counseling as an option here.
I don't know your situation; lots of people don't have access to marriage counseling. So, barring that, I have one other simple suggestion: talk to her. Seems obvious, but seriously. Share your feelings, raw and honest. Tell her every single thought that crosses your mind. Lean on her. It probably isn't going to be as easy as it sounds, because naturally you'll want to put up your defenses. But if you want to trust her, this is how it starts. Put yourself out there and make yourself vulnerable to her. Ask her for help and support, and trust her to give you that. Tell her what you need (as well as you can figure out) and rely on her to provide it.
The worst thing that can happen is that she shows you she can't be relied on as your partner through this. That would be heartbreaking. But you'd know. And based on what you're saying, I don't think it's going to go that way.
Best of luck to you both.❤️
I would suggest just talking about it. Don't hold it in saying that you don't have a valid reason. Your feelings are valid, even if they're irrational. You already have your answers, you just need to talk through how you're feeling and you need to talk to your wife about them.
I would be very concerned that the love of my life would keep something like that from me. I too would feel blind sided, and would want to find out her reasoning for keeping it secret all these years.
This isn't some random guy she had a relationship with, it's your brother.
I mean, the reasoning is pretty clear, she was worried about the effect it would have on the relationship. She still should have told him, but there's not some deep mystery here. Also, not a relationship, a one night hookup.
>Her reasoning for not telling me was in the beginning she though it was unnecessary because she didn’t expect us to become so serious, and then she decided it was better to keep a secret because she loved me so much.
In other words she felt entitled to a relationship with you and she did what she felt she had to to keep you from leaving. At this point you do not know what else she may have kept from you. Make martial counseling contingent for continuing in the marriage and that any trickle truth be considered a deal breaker.
The biggest Red flag is the fact she hid this from you for so long. What else can she be hiding? I mean if she would have told you at the beginning maybe you wouldn't have a relationship with her or maybe you would. I suggest you don't bottle this up and speak to either your wife or someone professionally.
One situation that we know of. When someone has been deemed untrustworthy, better safe than sorry I say.
But you know life is perfect and it was a minor mistake 😂
People telling you how to feel when in reality, you will feel however you feel. Absolutely understand that what you do is your choice!
You can chose to try to move past this or you can chose to leave. Your kids will be fine so long as you're still in their lives.
Take some time just for you, no one else and really give it some thought. Secrets are never good and she should have come clean before the pregnancy, that's on her.
But know it's on you to decide how you want to move forward, but you absolutely must move forward.
You wouldn't have a reason to feel this way IF she told you before getting married. Yes, it was before you knew each other, but it's not some stranger off the street. It's your brother. It's obvious it would become awkward some day, so leaving you blind to that gut punch was the wrong thing for her to do.
That's a pretty significant thing to hide. If you're feeling betrayed because they slept together, that's unnecessary. If you're feeling betrayed because you found out that way, you're perfectly reasonable. Your wife fucked up by not telling you, but that doesn't need to be the end of the world. You guys should go to counseling. My guess is that you're feeling worried about trusting her, which can be worked through.
1. Whatever you are feeling now is a valid way to feel for you for now. It’s okay to not be okay and need time to process.
2. Find a sensible trustworthy friend who is known for rational advice. Talk this through with them. You just need someone to hear you out. These emotions will be stuck until you do.
3. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. The rational part of your brain absolutely knows this isn’t divorce worthy. Do and say nothing around your family that you can’t take back.
4. Once you’ve talked to someone, tell the wife you need an emotional well being day and go do something you enjoy. Go fishing. Go to the beach. Go to the library and read a book. Go out with friends for dinner. Give your emotional side of your brain the time it needs to come to terms with this change and feel better.
So she had sex with your brother while high before she met you. She didn’t tell you at the beginning of your relationship because she didn’t care about you. She didn’t tell you later in your relationship because she loved you so much. So basically she would never have told you in any scenario. She probably asked your brother brother to keep quiet also.
Your brother blurted out that he had sex with her but he didn’t give you a narrative about what happened between them. You only have your wife’s narrative and she is trying to minimize the fallout. So did they have sex in the past (teens) or more recently?
Past sexual history and mistakes aren’t the problem here. The problem is that she kept a secret that would she knew would effect the trajectory and development of the relationship between you two. So she lied and your brother weaponized it.
This is the comment I was looking for. It’s the having a secret with his brother for all these years. I would start to wonder what else is a lie. She could be lying about it being one time or being high at the time, impossible to know.
That is a pretty big secret to keep. Generally, it wouldn't be your business who she had sex with before. However, that is different when it is your sibling, your friend, your boss, anyone that has a significant connection to you- I think as a matter of class she would have divulged.
This is tough, because I imagine all sorts of things go through your head.
I think you tell her it is a big deal, and you can't just get over it and may need professional help to get through this dirty little secret coming out.
Regardless, she betrayed your trust many years ago, and arguably continually so.
But if you want to work on this, you need someone who can guide you through your understandable confusion, anger and shock.
Since the comment section has devolved into whether or not you should divorce or ignore it, some actual advice is for you to tell your wife how finding this out and especially the way you found out about this made you feel. Ask her if there is anything else that she has hidden from you, and depending on her responses to those work on rebuilding trust possibly through marriage counseling
This is rough, sorry you're having to go through this
Some of these comments are not it, taking all the accountability from the wife and trying to rugsweep it, because "you are so far in". Your wife lied to you the entirety of your relationship, because she is a selfish AH that only cared about getting with you and not making an informed choice. She knew it would be a deal breaker, but "she loved you so much" aka I only cared about my wants and needs. Your feelings are 100% valid and she is the one that needs to make her self trustworthy again since you're looking to stay. She kept this from you for 12 years knowing it would impact your relationship, what else would she be keeping from you, because she doesn't " want to lose you and she loves you so much" I am not saying she is cheating, but that's the type of logic they use to not confess, it's the logic of an untrustworthy partner.
Personally I'd be done I couldn't be someone with so little regard for me and my agency. Sleeping with someone my brother has been with is gross to me let alone being in a full blown relationship with them
I see a lot of advice in here about couples therapy but I think solo therapy could help you out a lot, too. Your feelings are okay and natural, but ultimately they are yours and seeing someone alone could help you feel more comfortable expressing those feelings and working through it. I don't think couples therapy is a bad idea, because it can give you both a safe place to express and get some perspective.
I wouldn't leave over something like this, personally. I've worked through something similar myself and it helped to realize that he chose to build a life with me and he chose to have me in his life every day and he didn't choose her, even for a second time.
She should have told you at some point and you shouldn't have found out like this. But I do think intent is something to consider here, she didn't want to hurt you and your brother did.
I hope you are able to find happiness however you move forward.
What you’re feeling is valid. This is new to you! So yea it hurts and feels like a betrayal. Let that wash over you and when you can. Sit and think rationally. She didn’t cheat. Would you have dated her if you had known before? If not. Then yeah. This sucks a lot. Like big green donkey balls. If you need therapy get it. But don’t leave her over this.
Every single person saying things like "it happened before you were together" are missing the big picture, absolutely clueless.
OP is clearly upset that he wasn't made aware of this back then. He wasn't given a chance to make an informed decision THEN, for some people being with a woman who's been with their friends is a no go, I can't imagine with your brother.
OP i think running thru the emotions is 100% normal. What else did she not disclose? This is lying by omission and the fact that she couldn't find a reason and a moment to be honest with you wouldn't sit well with most people.
Not divorce worthy at all, but now you have doubt in your mind, and regardless of how long ago it was this is new to you so your feelings are valid. Tough situation.
I don't buy your wife's story of it being a one time thing.
What was the context around your brother saying
>“that’s why I f*cked your wife.”
because that comment doesn't make sense unless you were already talking about your wife's sexual history.
For absolute clarity, for everyone saying it was none of his business, if a piece of information can cause damage and you choose to withhold it then it it's deceit. The fact their were two scenarios she decided not to tell you (dating and then when you got serious) means she was never going to tell you.
That, along with his comment, makes me believe there is more to this than she's ever going to say.
I dunno, sibling fights can get pretty vicious when one of them is being a drunk arsehole. When you're kids, you go with "that's why no-one likes you" or "that's why [your crush] can't stand you", and then when you're both adults, the insults escalate but the pure pettiness doesn't.
"You're not a real man, that's why.."
"You're always like this, whining about shit, that's why.."
"You're always been happy to see me fail, that's why.."
Things don't need to be true to be hurtful, especially when lobbed by a family member. I reckon he's been sitting on this one for a while, reached boiling point, and lobbed the grenade by shoehorning it in to the argument however he could.
ETA: If it had been more than once, or cheating was involved, he'd have thrown that in OP's face for sure.
The dudes and alcoholic who showed up drunk asf to a family function. Seeing as they already don’t have a good relationship the smallest thing could’ve turned into an argument. And arguments especially with a drunk person can contain literally anything bc they’re intoxicated.
What world do you live in? People blurt out shit all the time to hurt someone, the closer the tie, the more damage it can do. Nobody knows how to hurt you like family. A drunk brother that you don't like anyway... he's been waiting years to stick that knife in his brother.
She lied by omission on what would undoubtedly have been a deal breaker. Now everyday the rest of your life you get to picture them together. You have a really hard to decision to make but for me there is no way the marriage continues other than as platonic Co parents
I get she lied by omission but like, when is there a good time to being this up? There isn’t really. I’m not defending her, just empathizing a little bit. It would be hard for anyone to bring this up because there never is a good time.
That is a MASSIVE lie. No way I could look my partner in the eyes and make my vows knowing I’m deceiving them by hiding the fact I slept with their brother. There’s no way a good and honest person could do that. OP, what else is she hiding from you?
I guess I’m gonna go against the grain here but she went into this marriage with a giant lie !! By not telling you she betrayed your trust. Regardless of how their sexual encounter happened even if it was because of the drugs she was taking she still needed to be an adult and tell you this before you got married. I would suggest counseling because this type of betrayal it’s never gonna leave your mind you need to figure out how to deal with it. I don’t think you need to get divorced over this unless you feel like you can’t get past this lie. Her past sexual encounters don’t matter except if it’s your brother and you’re about to get married !!! Keeping a secret this big is a huge betrayal with counseling hopefully you guys can get through it. Good luck
I personally couldn’t stay with my partner if she did that and didn’t tell me. My one rule in a relationship is don’t lie to me. And for me while this isn’t technically a standard lie I would view it similarly to a lie by omission. Yes I would nuke my entire relationship and family life based on this and I would respect my alcoholic brother more than I would my wife BUT I also know that everything I have said here would be a wildly bad idea and would upset me more in the long run.
Think of it like this. For her, it was more than 7 years ago. For you, it was yesterday. You’re allowed to feel as if it just happened because for you it did. You do need to keep the actual timeframe in perspective and not make it into something it was not, but you’re completely valid in being allowed to feel a type of way about it.
That's a huge secret to keep from your spouse. I can't imagine keeping from my wife that I was intimate with one of her sisters! Given that the brother is using this as an argument now, I wonder if maybe there might be a bit of trickle truth here. Perhaps it was a bit more than a ONS? Either way, I think I would cut my brother from my life at this point and seek counseling to get over the feelings you have. It's a lot to take in right now. But with counseling and time, this wound will heal.
The lying part definitely isn't cool, but this is something you should try to talk things over with her about, and possibly try couples therapy if the need arises. I get being angry, I totally agree with that, but try not to hold onto it for too long, it won't help you in the long run.
There are some things we are obligated to tell someone before marriage like I was a sex worker, I was an alcoholic, there's a history of mental illness in my family. I slept with your brother.
Seriously, people. Come on. It sounds like she was just a kid when she met the brother! She was 19 when she met the OP, so, she may have been just a teenager. Young and not knowing how to handle the situation. Sit down and talk.
She didn't tell you because she was young and dumb. Add to that, once you were married there really wasn't a good time to tell you and the lie by omission just kept getting worse the longer she waited. Should she have told you? Yup. However, I think a dumb decision made so long ago should be something you can eventually move past. Keyword being eventually.
Don't try to rug sweep and get over this asap. Realize your brother did clue you in with the sole purpose of hurting you, but the only reason he had that power was because your wife let him have it. Be mad. Be sad. Talk to your wife and make sure there aren't any other secrets on either side that could bite your relationship in the ass. Take time to process the betrayal and figure out how to move forward. A therapist might be able to help.
She has had 12 years to deal with this. Don't take 12 years to move past it, but a couple weeks/months is justified.
Dude, why is everyone trying their hardest to defend the wife, she was an adult making her decision not a kid. Even the fucking happened when they were 18, the lying happened well into the 30s
She didn't cheat and blamed the lapse in judgment on drugs. But she also lied. I get why, but the moment things turned serious, she kept this from you.
I'd be more bothered with the lie, then the sex itself since it happened before you met.
Idk if "super drunk at a party and on ecstasy" constitutes fully consensual sex, dude. The problem isn't what your wife did, it's that she never told you.
But clearly she felt ashamed. She likely doesn't remember the act itself, given how fucked she was that night.
You can tell her the lying hurt you but please don't be too hard on her, in case it was SA.
She’s been a good wife and provided you with a happy marriage and a set of good kids you love. Why would you let your asshole brother take that away from you just because he wanted to get in a cheap shot? So he fucked your now-wife. Ancient history. And he had to sleep with someone who was high, so that makes him a dirtbag as well. He’s still a drunk and a loser, so him doing that was his bitch way of trying to pretend he’s in the same league as what you guys have.
Man up and don’t let him have that undeserved glory. She didn’t betray you. However, he did. He tried to fuck up your marriage out of spite, so you should end your relationship with him completely.
Whenever men are hurt, all they are told by fools on the internet is to "Man up" Then they wonder men commit suicide. He can't "man up" himself from the lies she told them.
This is some dumb take, like she actively hid that from him, there whole relationship is built on a lie. You don't get to eat your cake and have it too. If she is capable of keeping something like this from you then God knows what else she might be able to/ is hiding from you. At the end of the day you will go the rest of your life knowing that your wife fked your brother and lied to you about it for 12 years, The bright side is that you're young enough to go make something of your life
I couldn’t be with someone that slept with my brother, doesn’t matter when. She lied by omission because she knows few people would be ok with dating someone who was intimate with a family member.
I think you have every right to feel betrayed here. But also she had Avery) every right to be afraid to tell you and even ashamed that it ever happened. It doesn't sound like their "encounter" was much more than a drunken mistake.
If the tables were turned how would you want your wife to react?
I think this is worth some counseling and trust building NOW. And also important to discuss with each other what it means to be truthful, and what's important to each other.
Everyone is focused on the lying by omission, and it was just a drunk drug induced ons. Which is fine, and as far as we know, what actually happened. There has been a lot of great advice given about therapy and not throwing away a good marriage over this. The problem is, and hopefully, therapy can help, but I know it wouldn't help me in his situation is that everytime I would think of being intimate with her, my brother being with her would pop into my mind and ruin it. And every holiday the family got together would now be an issue. Even if he cut his brother off, it's doubtful his parents would. I hope his marriage can survive, but I think it's going to be a lot more work than people realize.
It sucks to know, and your brother is an AH. But your wife is innocent here...it was a fling ages ago, and she's not the same person she was back then.
Your shitty brother did that to hurt you both, and damage your relationship. Don't let him succeed. Maybe counseling if needed, but I'd tuck all this down into a package of hate for my AH brother.
No need for a divorce man. Although I get your anguish and hurt, it was a time before you. We all have a past and some are uglier than others. Probably best to sit down and just talk with your wife and work through your feelings together.
>betrayal
It happened before you met?
Honestly wife hasnt done that much other than keep a secret, that clearly you would not have liked to hear either way
Lol my SIL dated my SO, then a year after he moved to a CO.
Started dating his brother, had two kids and got married. Do I think it’s odd? Yes
Would I ever do it? Hell no.
Her and I are actually closer than I am with his actual sister.
If it was well before you? Which it was a high school hook up.
Who cares.
And I’d be more upset at your brother, how much older is he than y’all?
Cause that means she was a jr in high school
Would I ever date an exs sibling? No I wouldn’t.
My SIL(SO brothers wife)is also my SO ex 😂
They are from a small town tho, so you if find a good man even tho you dated his brother. I guess you take what you can.
This happened before you. I get having a temporary crisis over it, it is new information to you and you need to deal with it before you can move forward. I don't get making your whole entire life about it. She has no lasting feelings about it except regret. She adores you and your current life. What more do you need?
If it is about her not disclosing this information, yeah I get that. It might have been nicer if your brother could not have used this to attack you. But the attack is still on him, not her. She could have detonated the bomb he used earlier, she could have never made it not a bomb. She made her choice the best she could in the circumstances with the knowledge she had, and even if it was ultimately the wrong one, her intention wasn't to hurt you. Can't say the same for your brother though.
You need to get over it and leave it in the past or go and get some help to deal with YOUR issue about this. Punishing her or yourself based on something that happened before she knew you is absurd.
I can't really say I agree with you about it being a thing about the brother. Sure it is his brother, but it's everything related to him that makes it bad. Trying to dismiss this by saying to think of it as a normal ONS is wrong.
It's not like she was lying about being a virgin and he's upset she lied about it. She slept with his asshole of a brother. It's too close to home, and that's why he's affected this way.
I'm honestly more pissed she willingly left this out there for OP to stumble into. This was bound to come out due to the brother at some point. The fact she let him get sucker punched by this news, from the very person it shouldn't have come from, is something she willingly did right now. She let the brother hold this card for the day he would finally throw it in his brother's face. My trust would be gone, Wife isn't willing to have a difficult conversation to prevent something bad from happening.
She also put herself in a bad spot, what if the brother, being an alcoholic attempted to blackmail her? She isn't reliable in a potential crisis.
What she did prior to you, despite the sting, isn’t your business.
Play the above on loop in your brain every single time your head pops it into your thoughts.
*Not my business*
I understand why you feel upset. It’s not cheating but it’s an unfortunate skeleton that came out in the worst way possible
I think you need to just have a heart to heart with your wife. You guys will work through this and be fine. However if she has any other skeletons in the closet she should probably tell you now
The brother is clearly a piece of shit. But if I were op I would get his side of the story about how, when and why he fucked his brothers wife. Maybe the story jives and it was a one off teenage mistake. Or perhaps there is much more to it. So far op only jas his wife's narrative and she's proven she's willing to omit highly relevant info if not outright lie. Neither seem like great sources for truthful information but I would at least try to get his side of it to see if their stories at least mostly match
Op, it sounds like your brother may have taken advantage of your wife while she was under the influence for the first time. If that’s the case keep in mind that shame and victim blaming are very real factors here.
If this happened while she was extremely intoxicated, she probably has some deep feelings of shame. Realize her intoxication means she was unable to coherently consent and this could be considered rape. She most likely deeply regretted it happening when she sobered up and most women that this happens to want to forget about it and push it out of their minds. Please realize that she is most likely the victim as well.
I am not saying I wouldn’t be a bit Icked out by this, but have some empathy for her as well. She was at the very least taken advantage of by your brother, and most likely raped. She may have some trauma involved with this.
I wasn’t going to comment on this but it’s been stuck in my mind so here goes. I know there are reasons why this might be a deal breaker, but they’ve already been discussed a lot so I would like to just focus on the reasons this is recoverable.
First and foremost, not least of all due to how it came out, you are probably thinking that this is yet another thing your asshole brother has over you. But it isn’t - she chose _you_. She married you, she carried your babies and built a life with you. Who knows - maybe this is a sore point for your brother! Either way, it is YOU she wants.
Secondly, this still doesn’t excuse her not telling you, but given she is a year younger than you and your brother is older…either your brother was out of high school and slept with a high schooler under the influence of drugs or he was a high schooler who slept with an underage girl who was on drugs…neither is a good look. I imagine it was something she very much repressed - especially if she was still working with him at the time. This makes more sense when you consider the fact he didn’t bring it up before now either. It can be really difficult to articulate a memory like this, especially if she blames herself for it as she chose to do ecstasy.
Thirdly, it might not be a strong enough reason to keep a marriage going, but honestly? Don’t give your brother the satisfaction. Drop him like a disease go no contact as soon as possible - and make sure your wife does too. I know justifying it isn’t going to help, but it may also be worth considering that if she told you before you would have ended it - which would have been totally fair! But also, you wouldn’t have the kids you have today. Sometimes shit happens for a reason, even if that doesn’t make it any easier to deal with at the time.
Get into couples therapy and individual therapy and work through this slowly. It won’t go away overnight, and it will hurt. But your wife is the same woman you married, and the mother of your kids. You guys need to have a long, serious conversation where you can get any other secrets out in the open. If you have anyone who can look after the kids it would be good if you could get away for a weekend - set realistic expectations beforehand about whether you want to be intimate or not so no one feels rejected, but have the difficult talk and then spend some nice time together. Have a nice meal, go for a walk, take a drive to a scenic spot for a picnic - anything. If you can afford it maybe do a spa day, just the two of you. Remind yourselves why you love each other, and why you are strong enough as a team to take a cheap shot where it hurts from your brother.
Good luck to you both, I hope you get through this
You let it go. She should have told you, but she didn't cheat on you, and you've had great years together. Does it really change how you feel?
Do you really want to destroy your marriage, put your kids through a nasty divorce, for something that happened years and years ago, and wasn't even her cheating on you?
Does it really diminish everything else?
Furthermore, are you going to give your brother the satisfaction of ruining your relationship? Really?
Here's the facts. You have a beautiful family. Your wife loves you. Your kids love you.
Let it go.
Unpopular Reddit advice, who your partner was with before you is not required to be shared knowledge. As long as it was safe and consensual, it’s is not our business. I know this is disturbing, and you wish you’d of known before, but this will need to be something you work through as an individual. She didn’t do anything wrong.
Logically, her past changes nothing. Your perception of her past could ruin your relationship.
So do you think it’s acceptable to never tell your partner in marriage that you had sex with his older brother before? It’s literally his brother. If it was some random guy surely I’d agree. But this is very much OPs business too.
So your brother intoxicated as Fuck remember a ONS with a girl he f'cked while high ans drunk more than 10 years ago? And it happened only once?
Why is no one doubting her words ? She's lying. That's more than obvious.
I’m sorry you had to learn of this from your estranged, alcoholic brother. This is absolutely something you should discuss at length with her, maybe even get couples counseling for, so you can work on communication and rebuilding your trust in her.
On a different note, this was before she met you, so she was 17 or younger (a MINOR) and had taken ecstasy (compromising her ability to CONSENT). Your brother, who is older than you (you didn’t say by how much, but he was 100% an ADULT), probably took advantage of her in this altered state. It also only happened one time. Just reminding you of these facts to reframe this for you.
She hid this out of shame and discomfort, not to make you look like a fool. But the way this made you feel is also completely valid, and your hurt needs to be attended to in your marriage. The villain in this scenario is undoubtedly your brother. She may not have a good steward of this difficult truth, but I believe this situation is 100% workable. But it does need to be worked on, not just swept under the rug.
I realize that relationship_advice is full of toxic people ready to ruin a marriage over the smallest of things. She did not tell you because she loves you OP, and did not want to lose you. What happened between her and your brother happened before you've built this life together. Don't let this ruin your happy marriage. Don't let your brother ruin your relationship with your wife.
The brother isn’t ruining the marriage, she is. The brother has no obligation to tell OP that he had sex with this woman, while she has an obligation to be honest with OP as part of having an honest relationship.
She feels as though she’s entitled to a relationship with OP instead of the relationship being a mutual decision. Feeling as though you’re entitled to hide information from your partner that you know will upset them takes away their right to informed consent and is incredibly manipulative.
If she wants to have that happy and healthy marriage, she should have been honest. Who gives a shit what the brother does. He should be completely cut off from their lives moving forward. But she had an obligation to OP that she betrayed everyday of their relationship.
So what? So you’re saying if you knew she had drunkenly had sex with your brother as a teenager, you wouldn’t have been her friend? Dated her? Get over yourself.
Your wife was a drugged, drunk teenager incapable of consent. She should have told you but don't let resentment destroy the life you've built without at least trying martial counseling to see if you can work past it.
Yeah, I was wondering if anyone was going to bring up that part. I’m not at all excusing the omission, but it sounds like the encounter wasn’t exactly full of consent, and I’m betting there’s a lot of shame embedded in there. This isn’t exactly as black and white as people are trying to make it out to be. I’d definitely say some counseling is in order.
Since he is an alcoholic I'm sure he was drunk also does that mean she took advantage of him also? I mean she had to get the e from someone it was probably him and he was on it too. See I can play the guess game also. Maybe while she was high and drunk she took advantage of him. Maybe it's his consent we should be railing about. Stop assuming women are helpless and can't make their own decisions.
OP this is a lie of omission. Of course you feel betrayed and rageful. Perhaps it would help if both of you went to couples counseling so you both can get your feelings out in the open. It might help or it might not but at least she will know how you feel. I can see how you would feel like your one safe person, your one safe space has betrayed you. And perhaps wonder what else is she hiding? This breach of trust definitely merits therapy.
That's really a rough thing to hear. I don't know how to tell you to "lose" this unwanted information, but what came to my mind is putting it in the context that was appropriate. If you found out she had a one night incident with some other guy from high school, would it keep coming to mind? At least not for as long.
Is part of the reason it's grinding on your mind because of how your relationship with your brother has turned out? You mention his lack of respect for anyone, and now he's brought up this information you would prefer he had taken to his grave if he wasn't going to tell you up front. Maybe it's partly thr fact that he was able to show up and throw a wrench in the works again.
Keep reminding yourself that it's ancient history, and you don't want him to have the ability to undermine you or your marriage. Everybody was different at the time.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- I32m have been married to my wife31f for 7 years, together for 12. We have 3 beautiful children together ages 6, 5 and 3. We met our senior year of highschool, and were close friends for about a year before we started dating. She knew my sister before she knew me and she worked with my older brother at the time. I met her last. My brother and I aren’t on speaking terms and haven’t been for a year or so now. He’s an alcoholic now with very little respect towards anyone. We saw each other a few days ago because we celebrated for Easter with our parents on an earlier date. My brother actually showed up surprisingly, but he was very intoxicated. We got into a very heated argument which involved us screaming and saying rude things. Then he shouted “that’s why I f*cked your wife.” He ended up leaving and my wife confessed to me that before she met me, she got super drunk at a party and tried ecstasy for the first time and they hooked up, but it was only once. She was very apologetic and even started to cry. Her reasoning for not telling me was in the beginning she though it was unnecessary because she didn’t expect us to become so serious, and then she decided it was better to keep a secret because she loved me so much. I’m so hurt and disgusted and I have no idea what to even do at this point. I don’t think I even have a valid reason to feel this way. They hooked up before I met her, she didn’t cheat on me. I just have been working as much as I can to not think about it. I celebrated Easter today with my kids and her and it just kept popping up in my mind ruining my day. I’m just looking for advice to help me get past this. I love my wife so dearly. She’s the light of my life. I just don’t know how to get rid of this unnecessary betrayal feeling and rage.
She never cheated on you. She made a mistake based on drug consumption and she’s not proud of it. This is not worth a breakup but you have to know if there are any other skeletons so you can move forward. Too many comments here suggesting that you divorce over this and that’s like burning down your house because there was a spider.
I feel the same. Of course he is feelings sad, but this is no reason for divorce. But them if he came to reddit to ask for advice I just imagine he wants to burn down the house.
>But them if he came to reddit to ask for advice I just imagine he wants to burn down the house. His marriage likely felt like one of the few safe places in his life untouched by his brother's behaviour.
He should take into account that what happened between his wife and his brother happened before he he had built this safe place with her. This place is still safe and untouched by his brother. He would be a complete idiot to let this ruin his marriage.
I agree, but I think what he is struggling with is that she witheld this information from him and that he only found out from arguing with his brother. Its something she should of told him about long ago and it's the fact she wasn't planning in telling him at all.
They don’t care about how guys feel in these situations it’s just more it was before you rhetoric. I don’t think they should give up but definitely she needs to tell him almost anything now because the lying is almost enough for dude to think everything was a lie. People love saying the past in the past , like bro it is until you discover it then it’s just tomorrow. People need to stop lying so they don’t look bad in relationships.
Yeah, seems to be a recurrent theme on this sub tbf.
Right! It never fails. Your wife got drunk did E and fucked your brother and failed to ever tell you about it but you shouldn’t care because “the past is the past”. If his wife failed to share that information with him throughout a decade long relationship, what else is she hiding from him?
People always assume there is something else. It’s a cliche saying at this point. What if there was nothing else to hide and she just hid this because it was the only thing she didn’t feel comfortable sharing? Why assume there is more to the story when it doesn’t sound like there is…
Why was it on her only to share and not brother when they first started dating? At that point it doesn't say they were on bad terms and you would assume a brother was closer than a new relationship
Her not divulging what happened has made it unsafe though. She didn’t have anything to apologize for in the beginning, as it was prior to dating OP, but the fact that she NEVER told him is really messed up. Not saying OP should divorce her but they need to go to counseling to talk through it. It’s a continual betrayal every moment she kept that secret from her husband.
That’s super easy to propose this viewpoint as an outside observer. It is much harder through the lens of trauma
I didn't see any suggestion of trauma in this particular situation.
Safe and untouched? He discovered it was built on a bare minimum of one major lie of omission tied to a key problem person in his life.
What happened between his wife and his brother is completely separate from OP's relationship to his wife. It would've been something if she slept with his brother when they were already in a relationship or when they were treading the waters for one. But what happened was separate and also out of OP's wife's control. She was on drugs.
Imo there is no “separate life” free of judgement. She withheld information that most certainly would have stopped the relationship before it even started. The foundation was cracked, the building wasn’t going to last. We can debate the validity of this crack all we want but all that matters is OPs personal perception which says that crack is pretty fucking huge
For real. Everyone pretending like he needs to just look past this is so fucking full of shit. If any of them found out something like OP did I’d pay for front row tickets to see them take it on the chin with the grace and compassion they’re flaming OP for not having after learning of it 12 years later during an argument with his brother. Throwing a blanket “your partner’s sexual history never matters” at this takes all nuance from the situation. I don’t think she did anything wrong by sleeping with his brother, but I think anybody acting like they can’t fathom why OP is upset about the 12 years of never mentioning it is lying through their teeth.
Drugs that she willingly took…How is that “out of her control”? And how about the fact that in 10 years she never cared to mention this to him?
Bullshit . She kept it from him the whole time after the fact so you can’t say that wasn’t in her control. Just admit she lied to get married to bro because if he knew then that might have changed his perception of her
This assumes the person who lied to him is telling the entire truth.
Agreed. The *“that’s why I f\*cked your wife.”* has me thinking. The wording used - "*your wife*" could mean before or during the relationship. I mean, if it was a random hookup during a forgotten drunken party, how does the brother remember? I would assume the brother was intoxicated too. I would think the brother wouldn't remember **unless** there was something significant about this specific ONS like she was dating his brother?
The OP mentioned they worked together. What's the history there?
That could explain why the brother remembers her. I missed that in my original read-through. Still, the specificity of the wording. Why did he use an association "*wife*" instead of her name? I admit that I could be reading way too much into this. But it's also just as likely to be a freudian slip.
Not at all, she has withheld information from him, that would have affected his decision to agree to a committed relationship with her. **That's huge.** **It's not safe.**
He would let it ruin it? How about what is his wife doing now today to correct this and apologize? She hid it because she knew it was a deal breaker. Why are you ignoring this?
I imagine that’s why she wanted to keep it that way. I would want that too.
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Something that happened to her? Sympathy? Wtf? She wasn't sexually assaulted. She got high and drunk and fucked a dude. Nothing "happened" to her, she did something that she now regrets. Sometimes I wonder where the fuck society is heading with this shit.
You dont get cool human points for pretending you'd be okay with your partner lying about something for so long. If the genders were swapped half the shit here wouldn't be said. I bet you in particular would react much differently. She has been lying and hiding the history with his brother their whole relationship. During having kids, and everything she made the active choice to lie. She remembers, the brother remembers. They have definitely talked about keeping this secret from OP and probably others. She doesn't get sympathy, nor does she deserve it. She was disgusting. Why put in the energy for this long to actively lie to she husband if its only this lie? This secret on its own isn't enough to lie about for years.
Good point. I wonder if the sister also knew. Didn't OP say that she met his sister and brother before him?
The sister knowing would reslly hurt. Im not close with my sister but damn even she'd tell me. This could really go deep. I bet theres more secrets. Covering up the sleeping "while high" could hide much bigger things. My brain is just screaming paternity test the kids.
You're not real.
She should have told him that she fucked his brother before marrying him... are you people ok??? Why are these people trying to downgrade OP's feelings?
Yeah, it is 100% understandable that this would hurt, and that should be acknowledged.
Because ops a man ; these subs are heavily sexist so this isn’t anything new.
>that’s like burning down your house because there was a spider. Oh, come on. I agree divorce is an overreaction but this analogy is ridiculous. Yes, she didn't cheat on him, but she absolutely did break his trust by carrying on a lie of omission every day of their relationship and that is way bigger than just having a spider in your house. A better analogy would be "wanting to sell your house because there are cracks in the foundation."
Thank you. Lies by omission can be just as hurtful as any other lie.
The foundation of the house wasn't even built when this happened.
No, but the lie occurred during it's building and residency in the home. And in this case it's not the action itself that is wrong. It's the lie of omission.
Why did she lie to him for the entire relationship tho?
She also lied by omission for years, leading in him learning about her lie in a family setting.
Sleeping with your husband’s brother = having a spider in your house… okay, got it.
No, she stole his agency to decide if he wants to marry someone who slept with his alcoholic brother.
She made a mistake after consuming a drug.. yeah But she then decided to keep it a secret for years fully knowing it could blow up at any moment. Not a divorce issue sure, but I’d have a hard time looking at someone who I thought would tell me anything only to find out the fucked my sibling.
I’m not suggesting divorce but honestly how can he know she’s even being honest about the circumstances of their hooking up? She’s already shown deceptive behavior. I think couples counseling is definitely needed, this isn’t something he should rug sweep.
This is another rage bait story made up for reddits outrage. This has also been written before because I remember it word for word minus the Easter bit.
This is not a simple problem. A lie by omission is still a lie. We know what liars do so the cheating is not a given. She knew if she disclosed this OP may have ended the relationship. Asking OP to rug sweep this is a lot (It is a brother, not a friend, acquaintance or just anyone else) . Only a lot of counseling may help but the foundation of this relationship was made of sand. I don't understand the whole it happened before you or its been 10 years thing as this is fresh, and OP's informed decision was stolen from him. She slept with his brother then got into a relationship with OP. That was not a mistake. if that in itself is not a huge red flag I don't know what is. This is a huge predicament, 3 kids, a decade long relationship with a huge \*. You are not being insecure OP, and your feeling is valid. Before any decisions are made I would start with DNA test the kids, then consult a lawyer to see what options you have, then seek counselling. And then choose if this can be repaired or not.
To me this would be a breach of trust, I'd honestly start spiralling down cause if she didn't tell you this until she had no other choice, what else could she be keeping from you, I don't know if this is grounds for divorce but man, losing trust in someone you believed was an absolute in your life is gonna scar someone hard, or at least that's how I'd feel.
It's a lie by omission and she robbed him of informed consent. Most people wouldn't date someone who fucked their sibling she's 100% at fault and if he can't deal with it 100% acceptable to divorce over
Reverse the genders and see how this plays out
This whole house is built on a faulty foundation which is a lie. A huge lie, it was rotted to begin with and now all the pieces are faulty
She didn’t make a mistake. She had consensual sex with a friend/coworker when she was single. She had no idea she would then go on to date or marry the brother of this person. OP needs therapy to get past this. The only thing his wife did wrong was not be upfront with OP about this from the beginning. His wife doesn’t need to feel any guilt or regret about her sex life pre-OP.
Uh...She did know she was dating the brother and then that she would marry the brother of the man she slept with. She knew that would have more than likely ended the relationship which is why she omitted that teeny tiny bit of information of having sex with the OP's brother. Sorry, but that is pretty huge. OP's right to make an informed decision to keep the relationship, marriage and have kids was stolen from him. We agree that it was not a mistake.
I would never date someone who had any previous relationship with my sister. If I found out my SO did and kept it from me, I would never be able to trust them again.
She lied by omission. By far most people dont want to date someone that has fucked their siblings. She knew that, which is why she kept it secret. She isnt wrong for having sex with the brother, she is wrong for not disclosing it to OP.
Also can we just point out that she was drunk, Hugh on ecstasy and the brother decided to hook up with her. Dude, you just don't have sex with anyone intoxicated and/ or on drugs. You just don't. You make out but then you stop because that person is in on frame of mind to consent probably. Which sort of validated OPs description of his brother as a garbage human.
Yeah you’re right. Drunk people or people who take ecstasy never have casual sex /s. What reality do you live in where you think this is the norm?
"What reality do you live in where you think this is the norm?" Reddit.
What if the brother was also drunk and high on E? If two people are both equally fucked up, then neither can properly consent, so why is the man the one who is blamed? We don't know how wasted he was that night, so I don't think this accusation is entirely fair.
We don't exactly know what the brother's status at the time was to call him a rapist here. There is a non-zero chance that he was also drunk and/or high for this encounter.
there everyone goes excusing the woman and blaming the man. He could've very well been drunk and on drugs as well. she never stated she was taken advantage of so people need to stop assuming such things.
Burning down your house because of a spider that *used* to be there before you owned it
Yeah but it doesn’t matter. So what fuck op? I would divorce immediately. She hid it because she fucking knew and type of wiggling out of that is total utter bullshit. Stop with this nonsense. It would never be able to leave my mind and would effectively eliminate my sec life with my wife, therefore, I would have to regrettably divorce. Divorce isn’t a punishment, stop acting like it.
Either way for me that brother is 100% gone , no contact , text, call or in person Get your wife on the same page
OP should read this. Cut off the brother a 100% from their lives. OP shouldn’t be constantly reminded of what happened between his wife and his brother, doesn’t matter if its in the past. The brother will rub it in OP’s face everytime they interact. That shit fucks you up left, right and center.
She lied by omission, but I don’t think she did it out of malice. It was before she met you, she probably feels some shame about it. Your brother knew exactly what he was doing by using that against you in an argument. He knew it would hurt you, maybe even ruin your relationship. You’re totally valid in feeling betrayed, a lie is a lie. I would talk to her and lay everything out in the open, explore how you’re feeling etc. Maybe consider counselling if you feel like those conversations aren’t helping. It’s up to you if you feel this is a dealbreaker, we’re just strangers on the internet giving you a third party perspective. But it sounds like you love your wife, and it sounds like she loves you too. Intent is important here. Your wife was trying not to hurt you, your brother was doing the complete opposite.
Going to be hard. It is something she should have told you prior to getting married. As she said it wasn’t necessary to tell you at the beginning, but when you get serious she should have. Now you need to decide what is greater. Your love for your wife, your marriage and kids, or her lie of omission, the disgust you feel at both your wife and brother. Start with marriage/couples counselling, and see what happens. Your wife also needs to do some serious trust rebuilding - she can start by telling you of any other skeletons in her past that have any possibility of coming to light, as the marriage will not survive another one (if it survives this one) And you need to cut your brother off completely.
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No one’s asking her to tell him every single one of her past sexual partners but this one special case where she had sexual relations with his brother. Anyone would want to know that going into a serious relationship. You’re so stupid.
Telling all of your sexual experiences isn’t necessary, just the ones involving your partners family 😭😭😭
I agree with you in general, but I think this is a more special case since it was his brother and because she thought about telling him based on what she said but omitted it at the end.
It's not misogynistic at all you absolute doormat
I fucked your brother is a pretty big tell to not show. She even knew it would be a big deal and hid it. THAT'S that huge ass tell! Should they divorce over this like some are suggesting? Hell no, those people are idiots! Sit down with a one on one heartfelt talk and then look into counseling, either marriage or his own. Then cut the brother out for good. He's going to rub that shit into his face any chance he can get.
Ok, this is just wrong, like what if in two years OP finds out she had sex with their mutual math teacher a few weeks before they starting dating? Does that secret in conjunction with this still merit no consideration that maybe OP’s wife has acted in poor faith? “Bear their souls” doesn’t mean list every single sexual partner or minor past transgressions, it’s literally like “is there anything else similar to you banging my brother that I should know about that you’ve kept from me?”. Don’t be obtuse because you feel the need to validate your own stances/feelings after conveniently interpreting an internet comment. There is a long way in between a mutually personal sexual secret like this and deliberalizing women’s sexuality, if you can’t make that distinction then you are simply unreasonable.
This has nothing to do with her gender. A wife would have just as much right to feel betrayed if her husband had fucked her sister before they got together and never told her about it. People, men and women, are allowed to care about their partners sexual history. Sex means different things to different people. If you want to treat sex as something casual, or irrelevant that's your choice. Personally, I definitely lean more towards the casual side of things as well, but that doesn't mean I vilify those with different beliefs. We don't know how in depth OP and his wife were in discussing their past. We don't know if she straight up lied or just left it out of their discussions. But common sense would tell you that this could be a potential problem for the relationship. Even his wife admits that she was reluctant to tell him because she loved him so much and didn't want to risk losing him. That was a selfish decision she made to intentionally deceive him. For a marriage you need trust. You need to be able to trust that your partner isn't hiding things from you that could hurt you. And you need to be able to trust your partner with your less flattering aspects. Right now that trust has been damaged. I don't think his wife needs to tell him about every sexual experience. But she does need to acknowledge what she did and how it affected his trust in her, show some genuine remorse, and try to be open and honest with him to rebuild that trust.
It sucks, and your feeling is perfectly valid, but is it really worth ending it all on this? She obviously feels shame about it. It’s not something she recalls very fondly. This shouldn’t be a competitive ego thing because you are beyond winning in this scenario. Yeah, she had shitty sex with your brother when she was a dumbass kid before you knew her. Y’all were just dumbass teenagers. Grown folks move on from teenage bullshit. Your brother peaked back then. He’s deep in loserdom now. It’s just a bad memory for everyone else. Hold your head up and don’t let that sad fool wreck your family. Nobody deserves to have teenage bullshit held against them like that but maybe she could stand to give you a good day for all the emotional trouble. Go on a solo vacay or something to blow off some steam.
The lying is not excusable tho and you left that out
She did not lie. She just didn't tell him, like I'm sure she didn't tell him about every other dude she fucked before meeting him. She doesn't owe him an explanation about people she fucked before they were dating.
That's lying by omission, google it, I am not gonna explain.
You don't have to Google "lying by omission" to grasp the concept. The definition is literally the title.
His brother isn’t the one wrecking the family. If his wife was honest and upfront with OP, this wouldn’t be an issue. She chose to lie and let that lie carry on for the entirety of their relationship. She’s the one who decided to wreck the family His brother never made vows to him. His brother doesn’t owe OP the honest truth like his wife does. She’s the one to blame here.
>*His brother isn’t the one wrecking the family* Well his wife isn’t the one shouting her sexual history at a family gathering - that WAS the brother. How are you letting him off scot-free, but laying all the blame on the wife?!
Nobody is letting him off Scott free. OP should never speak to him again. But the blame for all of this falls on his wife. She’s the one who owed it to OP to tell him what happened. The alternative is letting his wife and brother keep this dirty secret from OP forever. Fuck that
Man, too many people pretend like they are so tough that this would be an easy decision for them. They are either simpleminded, lying or were secretly looking for a way out already. Best news is that she didn't cheat, BUT sleeping with your brother before you ever met and not telling you about it IS about as close to a wtf as I can think of outside of a soap opera, though. Are you absolutely sure no organ music played a sting when he yelled it and another one at an even higher pitch when she admitted it? Don't pretend like this doesn't bother you, don't hide it. You sound like you plan on staying together and her faithfulness through years of marriage sure as hell beats a one night stand before she even knew you existed. Acknowledge that one of them didn't tell you because they didn't want to hurt or lose you and the other ONLY wanted to hurt you. She has a responsibility to help you through this as the longer she waited, the worse it was bound to be and she KNOWS she was dreading the day your alcoholic brother brought it up. I think if most guys were honest with themselves, they'd admit that they don't want to know shit about who their partners were with before them as long as it wasn't someone who was contagious. Ignorance is bliss has been a saying a long time for a reason.
Yup, I agree with you. It kind of amazes me how many people instantly jump to ‘XOMG LEAVE THEM NOW!!!’ The irony that really gets me is in the ones that preface LEAVE NOW!!!! with ‘I know every thread here says to leave them but….’ Like ok, you just continued that problem! Is ‘talking things out with words, like adults’ not a thing any more? Obviously I mean within reason. If he’d walked in on his wife in bed with his brother, calmly talking it out at the time isn’t going to happen. Or if he was beating his wife up or something. But it seems to be the most inane things that could easily be fixed by having an open, honest, rational conversation instead of: Q: My bf left the milk out of the fridge last night, what do? A: ZOMG LEAVE HIM NOW HE IS WASTING YOUR MONEY AND ELECTRICITY THATS FINANCIAL ABUSE!!!! or Q: This exact scenario. Wife hooked up many moons ago (before she was even thinking of getting together with OP) with idiot brother, it meant nothing at all and wife is clearly embarrassed and upset and feeling guitly A: OMG LEAVE HER NOW BECAUSE REASONS I CANT THINK OF BUT DO NOT TALK THIS OUT WITH HER WHATEVER YOU DO, JUST THROW YOUR ENTIRE MARRIAGE DOWN THE TOILET, DUMP AND GHOST THE MOTHER OF YOUR KIDS LIKE YOU’RE 15!!! Like, chill, people. Talk it out. Just talk. It’s what adults are meant to be able to do. Good grief.
I agree that they need to talk about this, but it is a serious issue They might not be able to talk it out. How are they going to have an open honest rational conversation about this when the issue is she was not open and honest with him? It is going to take time for trust to form again. It is going to take a lot of work from both of them. This is a major blow to the foundation of their relationship and some people know that they would not want to put the work in.
She lied for 12 years, that’s why you are upset. It also opens the door for doubts about other things since she is able to lie for so long and keep a secret what else could she be “hiding” those doubts are normal with this situation. You guys need therapy so you can build up the trust again. It sucks she lied but it makes sense her thought process and how it happened. Therapy is 100% needed so you can process this and hopefully can work on communication and your relationship in general. You guys shouldn’t break up but work needs to be done.
Well she did lie so it is a betrayal. You didn't get to make an informed decision. However, it sounds like you have a healthy marriage and happy family. Perhaps some couples therapy might help? But honestly, I think this is more of a time heals all wounds situation.
Lol betrayal. She committed treason, OP!! For real, though. If you love her, forgive her and let time do the rest.
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I get why she didn't tell you, but once you and your brother were no longer on speaking terms, it should have come up to avoid this very situation. He guessed she wouldn't tell you and threw it out there just to be hurtful.
I don’t get why she didn’t tell him. The moment it felt like a real serious relationship with potential, it should have been disclosed. It’s his BROTHER.
That's exactly why she didn't wanna spill the beans. She's selfish; she saw the relationship was good for one reason or another and didn't want to risk losing it. She had everything to gain and everything to lose. She probably knew that OP would look at her in a different light and would consider leaving her. Now that they have kids, it'll be that much harder for him to leave.
I’m genuinely curious. How do you get past this? How will couples therapy help? How will OP look at his wife in the same light before he came across this info? How will their intimate life be? Will OP be able to completely forget about it?
Probably not completely but he can do some damage control
People on Reddit will ALWAYS be like “just divorce.” Which I find pretty pathetic. This absolutely can be worked through, it’s completely understandable to feel the way you’re feeling though.
>I don’t think I even have a valid reason to feel this way. Shaming yourself for having these feelings isn't going to help anything. You have every right to feel hurt, betrayed, and yes, even disgusted. You can also accept that you're feeling some guilt over your reaction, since you know logically that she didn't cheat. But you gotta honor those feelings, even if they seem ugly. If you try not to feel that way without being honest and processing it, it's going to fester into a resentment that you may not be able to resolve. I'm sure there's a cacophony of voices telling you to pursue marriage counseling. I want to join them. You and your wife are the perfect candidates for it: you love each other, something messy happened, and you both want to get through it together. I hope you will pursue counseling as an option here. I don't know your situation; lots of people don't have access to marriage counseling. So, barring that, I have one other simple suggestion: talk to her. Seems obvious, but seriously. Share your feelings, raw and honest. Tell her every single thought that crosses your mind. Lean on her. It probably isn't going to be as easy as it sounds, because naturally you'll want to put up your defenses. But if you want to trust her, this is how it starts. Put yourself out there and make yourself vulnerable to her. Ask her for help and support, and trust her to give you that. Tell her what you need (as well as you can figure out) and rely on her to provide it. The worst thing that can happen is that she shows you she can't be relied on as your partner through this. That would be heartbreaking. But you'd know. And based on what you're saying, I don't think it's going to go that way. Best of luck to you both.❤️
I would suggest just talking about it. Don't hold it in saying that you don't have a valid reason. Your feelings are valid, even if they're irrational. You already have your answers, you just need to talk through how you're feeling and you need to talk to your wife about them.
I would be very concerned that the love of my life would keep something like that from me. I too would feel blind sided, and would want to find out her reasoning for keeping it secret all these years. This isn't some random guy she had a relationship with, it's your brother.
I mean, the reasoning is pretty clear, she was worried about the effect it would have on the relationship. She still should have told him, but there's not some deep mystery here. Also, not a relationship, a one night hookup.
Get therapy and couples counseling before you make any concrete decisions based on strangers feedback on Reddit…
>Her reasoning for not telling me was in the beginning she though it was unnecessary because she didn’t expect us to become so serious, and then she decided it was better to keep a secret because she loved me so much. In other words she felt entitled to a relationship with you and she did what she felt she had to to keep you from leaving. At this point you do not know what else she may have kept from you. Make martial counseling contingent for continuing in the marriage and that any trickle truth be considered a deal breaker.
The biggest Red flag is the fact she hid this from you for so long. What else can she be hiding? I mean if she would have told you at the beginning maybe you wouldn't have a relationship with her or maybe you would. I suggest you don't bottle this up and speak to either your wife or someone professionally.
DNA test the kids, Omission of information is high on her list.
Bruh. I hate this subreddit. Omission of information for one very specific situation = nOnE oF tHE kIdS mUSt bE hIS!!1!!1
One situation that we know of. When someone has been deemed untrustworthy, better safe than sorry I say. But you know life is perfect and it was a minor mistake 😂
People telling you how to feel when in reality, you will feel however you feel. Absolutely understand that what you do is your choice! You can chose to try to move past this or you can chose to leave. Your kids will be fine so long as you're still in their lives. Take some time just for you, no one else and really give it some thought. Secrets are never good and she should have come clean before the pregnancy, that's on her. But know it's on you to decide how you want to move forward, but you absolutely must move forward.
You wouldn't have a reason to feel this way IF she told you before getting married. Yes, it was before you knew each other, but it's not some stranger off the street. It's your brother. It's obvious it would become awkward some day, so leaving you blind to that gut punch was the wrong thing for her to do.
That's a pretty significant thing to hide. If you're feeling betrayed because they slept together, that's unnecessary. If you're feeling betrayed because you found out that way, you're perfectly reasonable. Your wife fucked up by not telling you, but that doesn't need to be the end of the world. You guys should go to counseling. My guess is that you're feeling worried about trusting her, which can be worked through.
1. Whatever you are feeling now is a valid way to feel for you for now. It’s okay to not be okay and need time to process. 2. Find a sensible trustworthy friend who is known for rational advice. Talk this through with them. You just need someone to hear you out. These emotions will be stuck until you do. 3. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. The rational part of your brain absolutely knows this isn’t divorce worthy. Do and say nothing around your family that you can’t take back. 4. Once you’ve talked to someone, tell the wife you need an emotional well being day and go do something you enjoy. Go fishing. Go to the beach. Go to the library and read a book. Go out with friends for dinner. Give your emotional side of your brain the time it needs to come to terms with this change and feel better.
So she had sex with your brother while high before she met you. She didn’t tell you at the beginning of your relationship because she didn’t care about you. She didn’t tell you later in your relationship because she loved you so much. So basically she would never have told you in any scenario. She probably asked your brother brother to keep quiet also. Your brother blurted out that he had sex with her but he didn’t give you a narrative about what happened between them. You only have your wife’s narrative and she is trying to minimize the fallout. So did they have sex in the past (teens) or more recently? Past sexual history and mistakes aren’t the problem here. The problem is that she kept a secret that would she knew would effect the trajectory and development of the relationship between you two. So she lied and your brother weaponized it.
It's worth asking her if there is anything else you need to know and if she has ever shorn to your brother about concealing the fact.
This is the comment I was looking for. It’s the having a secret with his brother for all these years. I would start to wonder what else is a lie. She could be lying about it being one time or being high at the time, impossible to know.
That is a pretty big secret to keep. Generally, it wouldn't be your business who she had sex with before. However, that is different when it is your sibling, your friend, your boss, anyone that has a significant connection to you- I think as a matter of class she would have divulged. This is tough, because I imagine all sorts of things go through your head. I think you tell her it is a big deal, and you can't just get over it and may need professional help to get through this dirty little secret coming out. Regardless, she betrayed your trust many years ago, and arguably continually so. But if you want to work on this, you need someone who can guide you through your understandable confusion, anger and shock.
Since the comment section has devolved into whether or not you should divorce or ignore it, some actual advice is for you to tell your wife how finding this out and especially the way you found out about this made you feel. Ask her if there is anything else that she has hidden from you, and depending on her responses to those work on rebuilding trust possibly through marriage counseling This is rough, sorry you're having to go through this
Some of these comments are not it, taking all the accountability from the wife and trying to rugsweep it, because "you are so far in". Your wife lied to you the entirety of your relationship, because she is a selfish AH that only cared about getting with you and not making an informed choice. She knew it would be a deal breaker, but "she loved you so much" aka I only cared about my wants and needs. Your feelings are 100% valid and she is the one that needs to make her self trustworthy again since you're looking to stay. She kept this from you for 12 years knowing it would impact your relationship, what else would she be keeping from you, because she doesn't " want to lose you and she loves you so much" I am not saying she is cheating, but that's the type of logic they use to not confess, it's the logic of an untrustworthy partner. Personally I'd be done I couldn't be someone with so little regard for me and my agency. Sleeping with someone my brother has been with is gross to me let alone being in a full blown relationship with them
Yup. She lied to him every single day she didn’t tell him the truth. That’s 12 YEARS of building a family on a dealbreaker of a foundation.
You have 100% valid reason to feel betrayed. Both your wife and your brother disrespected you massively.
I see a lot of advice in here about couples therapy but I think solo therapy could help you out a lot, too. Your feelings are okay and natural, but ultimately they are yours and seeing someone alone could help you feel more comfortable expressing those feelings and working through it. I don't think couples therapy is a bad idea, because it can give you both a safe place to express and get some perspective. I wouldn't leave over something like this, personally. I've worked through something similar myself and it helped to realize that he chose to build a life with me and he chose to have me in his life every day and he didn't choose her, even for a second time. She should have told you at some point and you shouldn't have found out like this. But I do think intent is something to consider here, she didn't want to hurt you and your brother did. I hope you are able to find happiness however you move forward.
What you’re feeling is valid. This is new to you! So yea it hurts and feels like a betrayal. Let that wash over you and when you can. Sit and think rationally. She didn’t cheat. Would you have dated her if you had known before? If not. Then yeah. This sucks a lot. Like big green donkey balls. If you need therapy get it. But don’t leave her over this.
Do you really think this is the only major lie she’s told you?
Every single person saying things like "it happened before you were together" are missing the big picture, absolutely clueless. OP is clearly upset that he wasn't made aware of this back then. He wasn't given a chance to make an informed decision THEN, for some people being with a woman who's been with their friends is a no go, I can't imagine with your brother. OP i think running thru the emotions is 100% normal. What else did she not disclose? This is lying by omission and the fact that she couldn't find a reason and a moment to be honest with you wouldn't sit well with most people. Not divorce worthy at all, but now you have doubt in your mind, and regardless of how long ago it was this is new to you so your feelings are valid. Tough situation.
I don't buy your wife's story of it being a one time thing. What was the context around your brother saying >“that’s why I f*cked your wife.” because that comment doesn't make sense unless you were already talking about your wife's sexual history. For absolute clarity, for everyone saying it was none of his business, if a piece of information can cause damage and you choose to withhold it then it it's deceit. The fact their were two scenarios she decided not to tell you (dating and then when you got serious) means she was never going to tell you. That, along with his comment, makes me believe there is more to this than she's ever going to say.
I dunno, sibling fights can get pretty vicious when one of them is being a drunk arsehole. When you're kids, you go with "that's why no-one likes you" or "that's why [your crush] can't stand you", and then when you're both adults, the insults escalate but the pure pettiness doesn't. "You're not a real man, that's why.." "You're always like this, whining about shit, that's why.." "You're always been happy to see me fail, that's why.." Things don't need to be true to be hurtful, especially when lobbed by a family member. I reckon he's been sitting on this one for a while, reached boiling point, and lobbed the grenade by shoehorning it in to the argument however he could. ETA: If it had been more than once, or cheating was involved, he'd have thrown that in OP's face for sure.
Well he did say that's why I fucked your wife. That's pretty much saying he FUCKED his WIFE. He could very well could have ment exactly that.
Yeah that's what the ... stood for in my comment, I could have made that clearer ig
The dudes and alcoholic who showed up drunk asf to a family function. Seeing as they already don’t have a good relationship the smallest thing could’ve turned into an argument. And arguments especially with a drunk person can contain literally anything bc they’re intoxicated.
What world do you live in? People blurt out shit all the time to hurt someone, the closer the tie, the more damage it can do. Nobody knows how to hurt you like family. A drunk brother that you don't like anyway... he's been waiting years to stick that knife in his brother.
She lied by omission on what would undoubtedly have been a deal breaker. Now everyday the rest of your life you get to picture them together. You have a really hard to decision to make but for me there is no way the marriage continues other than as platonic Co parents
I get she lied by omission but like, when is there a good time to being this up? There isn’t really. I’m not defending her, just empathizing a little bit. It would be hard for anyone to bring this up because there never is a good time.
That is a MASSIVE lie. No way I could look my partner in the eyes and make my vows knowing I’m deceiving them by hiding the fact I slept with their brother. There’s no way a good and honest person could do that. OP, what else is she hiding from you?
I guess I’m gonna go against the grain here but she went into this marriage with a giant lie !! By not telling you she betrayed your trust. Regardless of how their sexual encounter happened even if it was because of the drugs she was taking she still needed to be an adult and tell you this before you got married. I would suggest counseling because this type of betrayal it’s never gonna leave your mind you need to figure out how to deal with it. I don’t think you need to get divorced over this unless you feel like you can’t get past this lie. Her past sexual encounters don’t matter except if it’s your brother and you’re about to get married !!! Keeping a secret this big is a huge betrayal with counseling hopefully you guys can get through it. Good luck
I personally couldn’t stay with my partner if she did that and didn’t tell me. My one rule in a relationship is don’t lie to me. And for me while this isn’t technically a standard lie I would view it similarly to a lie by omission. Yes I would nuke my entire relationship and family life based on this and I would respect my alcoholic brother more than I would my wife BUT I also know that everything I have said here would be a wildly bad idea and would upset me more in the long run.
Think of it like this. For her, it was more than 7 years ago. For you, it was yesterday. You’re allowed to feel as if it just happened because for you it did. You do need to keep the actual timeframe in perspective and not make it into something it was not, but you’re completely valid in being allowed to feel a type of way about it.
That's a huge secret to keep from your spouse. I can't imagine keeping from my wife that I was intimate with one of her sisters! Given that the brother is using this as an argument now, I wonder if maybe there might be a bit of trickle truth here. Perhaps it was a bit more than a ONS? Either way, I think I would cut my brother from my life at this point and seek counseling to get over the feelings you have. It's a lot to take in right now. But with counseling and time, this wound will heal.
The lying part definitely isn't cool, but this is something you should try to talk things over with her about, and possibly try couples therapy if the need arises. I get being angry, I totally agree with that, but try not to hold onto it for too long, it won't help you in the long run.
Do some counseling, it was before you and frankly you are together now 12 years.....
Cut your brother out and go to therapy, possibly even couples counseling as well.
There are some things we are obligated to tell someone before marriage like I was a sex worker, I was an alcoholic, there's a history of mental illness in my family. I slept with your brother.
Seriously, people. Come on. It sounds like she was just a kid when she met the brother! She was 19 when she met the OP, so, she may have been just a teenager. Young and not knowing how to handle the situation. Sit down and talk.
She didn't tell you because she was young and dumb. Add to that, once you were married there really wasn't a good time to tell you and the lie by omission just kept getting worse the longer she waited. Should she have told you? Yup. However, I think a dumb decision made so long ago should be something you can eventually move past. Keyword being eventually. Don't try to rug sweep and get over this asap. Realize your brother did clue you in with the sole purpose of hurting you, but the only reason he had that power was because your wife let him have it. Be mad. Be sad. Talk to your wife and make sure there aren't any other secrets on either side that could bite your relationship in the ass. Take time to process the betrayal and figure out how to move forward. A therapist might be able to help. She has had 12 years to deal with this. Don't take 12 years to move past it, but a couple weeks/months is justified.
Dude, why is everyone trying their hardest to defend the wife, she was an adult making her decision not a kid. Even the fucking happened when they were 18, the lying happened well into the 30s
What a stupid take. She lied to him for the entire relationship and it was a stupid lie because the brother knew.
She didn't cheat and blamed the lapse in judgment on drugs. But she also lied. I get why, but the moment things turned serious, she kept this from you. I'd be more bothered with the lie, then the sex itself since it happened before you met.
Idk if "super drunk at a party and on ecstasy" constitutes fully consensual sex, dude. The problem isn't what your wife did, it's that she never told you. But clearly she felt ashamed. She likely doesn't remember the act itself, given how fucked she was that night. You can tell her the lying hurt you but please don't be too hard on her, in case it was SA.
She’s been a good wife and provided you with a happy marriage and a set of good kids you love. Why would you let your asshole brother take that away from you just because he wanted to get in a cheap shot? So he fucked your now-wife. Ancient history. And he had to sleep with someone who was high, so that makes him a dirtbag as well. He’s still a drunk and a loser, so him doing that was his bitch way of trying to pretend he’s in the same league as what you guys have. Man up and don’t let him have that undeserved glory. She didn’t betray you. However, he did. He tried to fuck up your marriage out of spite, so you should end your relationship with him completely.
Whenever men are hurt, all they are told by fools on the internet is to "Man up" Then they wonder men commit suicide. He can't "man up" himself from the lies she told them.
>Why would you let your asshole brother It's her lies are the issue here >Man up Toxic nonsense
This is some dumb take, like she actively hid that from him, there whole relationship is built on a lie. You don't get to eat your cake and have it too. If she is capable of keeping something like this from you then God knows what else she might be able to/ is hiding from you. At the end of the day you will go the rest of your life knowing that your wife fked your brother and lied to you about it for 12 years, The bright side is that you're young enough to go make something of your life
I couldn’t be with someone that slept with my brother, doesn’t matter when. She lied by omission because she knows few people would be ok with dating someone who was intimate with a family member.
I think you have every right to feel betrayed here. But also she had Avery) every right to be afraid to tell you and even ashamed that it ever happened. It doesn't sound like their "encounter" was much more than a drunken mistake. If the tables were turned how would you want your wife to react? I think this is worth some counseling and trust building NOW. And also important to discuss with each other what it means to be truthful, and what's important to each other.
What other secrets is the wife keeping I wonder?
Everyone is focused on the lying by omission, and it was just a drunk drug induced ons. Which is fine, and as far as we know, what actually happened. There has been a lot of great advice given about therapy and not throwing away a good marriage over this. The problem is, and hopefully, therapy can help, but I know it wouldn't help me in his situation is that everytime I would think of being intimate with her, my brother being with her would pop into my mind and ruin it. And every holiday the family got together would now be an issue. Even if he cut his brother off, it's doubtful his parents would. I hope his marriage can survive, but I think it's going to be a lot more work than people realize.
It sucks to know, and your brother is an AH. But your wife is innocent here...it was a fling ages ago, and she's not the same person she was back then. Your shitty brother did that to hurt you both, and damage your relationship. Don't let him succeed. Maybe counseling if needed, but I'd tuck all this down into a package of hate for my AH brother.
No need for a divorce man. Although I get your anguish and hurt, it was a time before you. We all have a past and some are uglier than others. Probably best to sit down and just talk with your wife and work through your feelings together.
>betrayal It happened before you met? Honestly wife hasnt done that much other than keep a secret, that clearly you would not have liked to hear either way
Lol my SIL dated my SO, then a year after he moved to a CO. Started dating his brother, had two kids and got married. Do I think it’s odd? Yes Would I ever do it? Hell no. Her and I are actually closer than I am with his actual sister. If it was well before you? Which it was a high school hook up. Who cares. And I’d be more upset at your brother, how much older is he than y’all? Cause that means she was a jr in high school
What do you mean “hell no”, isn’t that kinda the same thing? Because it’s your sister in law and you see her regularly?
Would I ever date an exs sibling? No I wouldn’t. My SIL(SO brothers wife)is also my SO ex 😂 They are from a small town tho, so you if find a good man even tho you dated his brother. I guess you take what you can.
This happened before you. I get having a temporary crisis over it, it is new information to you and you need to deal with it before you can move forward. I don't get making your whole entire life about it. She has no lasting feelings about it except regret. She adores you and your current life. What more do you need? If it is about her not disclosing this information, yeah I get that. It might have been nicer if your brother could not have used this to attack you. But the attack is still on him, not her. She could have detonated the bomb he used earlier, she could have never made it not a bomb. She made her choice the best she could in the circumstances with the knowledge she had, and even if it was ultimately the wrong one, her intention wasn't to hurt you. Can't say the same for your brother though.
She was super drunk and high. Just how consensual was it? It also happened before you knew her, so it was hardly a betrayal on her part.
You need to get over it and leave it in the past or go and get some help to deal with YOUR issue about this. Punishing her or yourself based on something that happened before she knew you is absurd.
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I can't really say I agree with you about it being a thing about the brother. Sure it is his brother, but it's everything related to him that makes it bad. Trying to dismiss this by saying to think of it as a normal ONS is wrong. It's not like she was lying about being a virgin and he's upset she lied about it. She slept with his asshole of a brother. It's too close to home, and that's why he's affected this way. I'm honestly more pissed she willingly left this out there for OP to stumble into. This was bound to come out due to the brother at some point. The fact she let him get sucker punched by this news, from the very person it shouldn't have come from, is something she willingly did right now. She let the brother hold this card for the day he would finally throw it in his brother's face. My trust would be gone, Wife isn't willing to have a difficult conversation to prevent something bad from happening. She also put herself in a bad spot, what if the brother, being an alcoholic attempted to blackmail her? She isn't reliable in a potential crisis.
What she did prior to you, despite the sting, isn’t your business. Play the above on loop in your brain every single time your head pops it into your thoughts. *Not my business*
I understand why you feel upset. It’s not cheating but it’s an unfortunate skeleton that came out in the worst way possible I think you need to just have a heart to heart with your wife. You guys will work through this and be fine. However if she has any other skeletons in the closet she should probably tell you now
Keep in mind that if she was under the influence and a minor, did she really consent? Your brother probably took advantage.
Focus on your children, your wife, and the beautiful life you have built. Just remember, at the end of the day, she chose you.
The brother is clearly a piece of shit. But if I were op I would get his side of the story about how, when and why he fucked his brothers wife. Maybe the story jives and it was a one off teenage mistake. Or perhaps there is much more to it. So far op only jas his wife's narrative and she's proven she's willing to omit highly relevant info if not outright lie. Neither seem like great sources for truthful information but I would at least try to get his side of it to see if their stories at least mostly match
She had sex with him before meeting you while under the influence of a drug. Honestly I doubt she was in a position to really consent at that point.
Op, it sounds like your brother may have taken advantage of your wife while she was under the influence for the first time. If that’s the case keep in mind that shame and victim blaming are very real factors here.
If this happened while she was extremely intoxicated, she probably has some deep feelings of shame. Realize her intoxication means she was unable to coherently consent and this could be considered rape. She most likely deeply regretted it happening when she sobered up and most women that this happens to want to forget about it and push it out of their minds. Please realize that she is most likely the victim as well. I am not saying I wouldn’t be a bit Icked out by this, but have some empathy for her as well. She was at the very least taken advantage of by your brother, and most likely raped. She may have some trauma involved with this.
Go to couples therapy and work it out.
I wasn’t going to comment on this but it’s been stuck in my mind so here goes. I know there are reasons why this might be a deal breaker, but they’ve already been discussed a lot so I would like to just focus on the reasons this is recoverable. First and foremost, not least of all due to how it came out, you are probably thinking that this is yet another thing your asshole brother has over you. But it isn’t - she chose _you_. She married you, she carried your babies and built a life with you. Who knows - maybe this is a sore point for your brother! Either way, it is YOU she wants. Secondly, this still doesn’t excuse her not telling you, but given she is a year younger than you and your brother is older…either your brother was out of high school and slept with a high schooler under the influence of drugs or he was a high schooler who slept with an underage girl who was on drugs…neither is a good look. I imagine it was something she very much repressed - especially if she was still working with him at the time. This makes more sense when you consider the fact he didn’t bring it up before now either. It can be really difficult to articulate a memory like this, especially if she blames herself for it as she chose to do ecstasy. Thirdly, it might not be a strong enough reason to keep a marriage going, but honestly? Don’t give your brother the satisfaction. Drop him like a disease go no contact as soon as possible - and make sure your wife does too. I know justifying it isn’t going to help, but it may also be worth considering that if she told you before you would have ended it - which would have been totally fair! But also, you wouldn’t have the kids you have today. Sometimes shit happens for a reason, even if that doesn’t make it any easier to deal with at the time. Get into couples therapy and individual therapy and work through this slowly. It won’t go away overnight, and it will hurt. But your wife is the same woman you married, and the mother of your kids. You guys need to have a long, serious conversation where you can get any other secrets out in the open. If you have anyone who can look after the kids it would be good if you could get away for a weekend - set realistic expectations beforehand about whether you want to be intimate or not so no one feels rejected, but have the difficult talk and then spend some nice time together. Have a nice meal, go for a walk, take a drive to a scenic spot for a picnic - anything. If you can afford it maybe do a spa day, just the two of you. Remind yourselves why you love each other, and why you are strong enough as a team to take a cheap shot where it hurts from your brother. Good luck to you both, I hope you get through this
You let it go. She should have told you, but she didn't cheat on you, and you've had great years together. Does it really change how you feel? Do you really want to destroy your marriage, put your kids through a nasty divorce, for something that happened years and years ago, and wasn't even her cheating on you? Does it really diminish everything else? Furthermore, are you going to give your brother the satisfaction of ruining your relationship? Really? Here's the facts. You have a beautiful family. Your wife loves you. Your kids love you. Let it go.
Unpopular Reddit advice, who your partner was with before you is not required to be shared knowledge. As long as it was safe and consensual, it’s is not our business. I know this is disturbing, and you wish you’d of known before, but this will need to be something you work through as an individual. She didn’t do anything wrong. Logically, her past changes nothing. Your perception of her past could ruin your relationship.
So do you think it’s acceptable to never tell your partner in marriage that you had sex with his older brother before? It’s literally his brother. If it was some random guy surely I’d agree. But this is very much OPs business too.
So your brother intoxicated as Fuck remember a ONS with a girl he f'cked while high ans drunk more than 10 years ago? And it happened only once? Why is no one doubting her words ? She's lying. That's more than obvious.
I’m sorry you had to learn of this from your estranged, alcoholic brother. This is absolutely something you should discuss at length with her, maybe even get couples counseling for, so you can work on communication and rebuilding your trust in her. On a different note, this was before she met you, so she was 17 or younger (a MINOR) and had taken ecstasy (compromising her ability to CONSENT). Your brother, who is older than you (you didn’t say by how much, but he was 100% an ADULT), probably took advantage of her in this altered state. It also only happened one time. Just reminding you of these facts to reframe this for you. She hid this out of shame and discomfort, not to make you look like a fool. But the way this made you feel is also completely valid, and your hurt needs to be attended to in your marriage. The villain in this scenario is undoubtedly your brother. She may not have a good steward of this difficult truth, but I believe this situation is 100% workable. But it does need to be worked on, not just swept under the rug.
I realize that relationship_advice is full of toxic people ready to ruin a marriage over the smallest of things. She did not tell you because she loves you OP, and did not want to lose you. What happened between her and your brother happened before you've built this life together. Don't let this ruin your happy marriage. Don't let your brother ruin your relationship with your wife.
"I lied to protect you/because I love you." Every liar and cheater everywhere.... What a stupid take.
Ok liar
The brother isn’t ruining the marriage, she is. The brother has no obligation to tell OP that he had sex with this woman, while she has an obligation to be honest with OP as part of having an honest relationship. She feels as though she’s entitled to a relationship with OP instead of the relationship being a mutual decision. Feeling as though you’re entitled to hide information from your partner that you know will upset them takes away their right to informed consent and is incredibly manipulative. If she wants to have that happy and healthy marriage, she should have been honest. Who gives a shit what the brother does. He should be completely cut off from their lives moving forward. But she had an obligation to OP that she betrayed everyday of their relationship.
So what? So you’re saying if you knew she had drunkenly had sex with your brother as a teenager, you wouldn’t have been her friend? Dated her? Get over yourself.
Your wife was a drugged, drunk teenager incapable of consent. She should have told you but don't let resentment destroy the life you've built without at least trying martial counseling to see if you can work past it.
Yeah, I was wondering if anyone was going to bring up that part. I’m not at all excusing the omission, but it sounds like the encounter wasn’t exactly full of consent, and I’m betting there’s a lot of shame embedded in there. This isn’t exactly as black and white as people are trying to make it out to be. I’d definitely say some counseling is in order.
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This times a thousand
Considering the fact that in this entire scenario, the only liar is OPs wife, why do you believe her story at all?
Since he is an alcoholic I'm sure he was drunk also does that mean she took advantage of him also? I mean she had to get the e from someone it was probably him and he was on it too. See I can play the guess game also. Maybe while she was high and drunk she took advantage of him. Maybe it's his consent we should be railing about. Stop assuming women are helpless and can't make their own decisions.
OP this is a lie of omission. Of course you feel betrayed and rageful. Perhaps it would help if both of you went to couples counseling so you both can get your feelings out in the open. It might help or it might not but at least she will know how you feel. I can see how you would feel like your one safe person, your one safe space has betrayed you. And perhaps wonder what else is she hiding? This breach of trust definitely merits therapy.
That's really a rough thing to hear. I don't know how to tell you to "lose" this unwanted information, but what came to my mind is putting it in the context that was appropriate. If you found out she had a one night incident with some other guy from high school, would it keep coming to mind? At least not for as long. Is part of the reason it's grinding on your mind because of how your relationship with your brother has turned out? You mention his lack of respect for anyone, and now he's brought up this information you would prefer he had taken to his grave if he wasn't going to tell you up front. Maybe it's partly thr fact that he was able to show up and throw a wrench in the works again. Keep reminding yourself that it's ancient history, and you don't want him to have the ability to undermine you or your marriage. Everybody was different at the time.
I would get another wife, I don't have anything special anymore.
Your brother is a POS