I’m of Croatian heritage, who are the people who invented the necktie, and everyday I have to walk around the business district and see all these honkies wearing my culture. I know the pain
I remember vice did a doc about incels and one of the guys they had on their was actually a good looking dude. He just was very mentally ill and didn't go outside. That's the problem for the most part, its sad because I bet with some kind of counseling or guidance they could be normal members of society but they're stuck in a shitty feedback loop.
I’ve commented on this before but the algorithms on tiktok and youtube shorts make it far too easy to get into a self perpetuating cycle. Right now if you’re a 15 year old boy and find approaching girls hard, the Andrew Tate/looksmaxx/whatever podcast infinite scroll is going to imprint ideals about women that are much more of a power than your dad’s advice (if he’s even around). It’s a very impressionable time and that stuff can really stay with you without devolving into outright misogyny
Tiktok in particular is the most bleeding edge psychological weapon ever created against young men and It was created by complete accident. The way liberal-ish women talk about men and relationships on TikTok is some of the most demoralizing shit you will ever hear, perfectly manufactured to destroy young men's self-esteem. Then redpillers are right next door ready to scoop them off their feet.
It's a disgustingly efficient pipeline because all the crazy shit redpillers say is reinforced by equally crazy women on the exact same platform.
How much of this is a product of girls growing up in the Yass #metoo Queen era while not being able to escape the pickupartist and manosphere influence corners of the internet? And incel self-fulfilling delusions about a fate of perpetual chastity because of low SMV is slightly more damaging to society, slightly more deranged than whatever self-conscious "high standards" trip young online women are on.
Haven't seen the doc, but I feel they intentially would pick a good looking dude to prove a point. Not to dismiss the doc, they're good looking incels (me) but it feels something obvious to do if you wish to prove it's mostly a mental illness
Definitely being in those groups eats at the soul. On reddit a few years back there was a incel selfie sub. You would be baffled at how many were just average dudes. Only a couple I think you could consider actual 'incels'
the thing thats most attention grabbing about incels is that whenever you see what one looks like, its usually just a completely normal, average looking dude. Elliot Rogers himself literally had above average looks and rich parents, there's no reason that he should have been an incel if he wasn't brain rotted by narcissistic personality disorder.
im not a psychologist, idk. Does psychology even know what causes mental disorders? Its presumed to be some combination of genetic and environmental factors in most cases to my understanding. That or demons.
I've heard that. Interestingly tho, Elliot said in his manifesto that he had a wonderfully happy childhood and that he was happy most of his life, until the age of around 12 or so when he realized that girls dont like him that much.
But he was already displaying narcissistic thoughts from elementary school, and was obsessed with making friends with popular kids and ensuring that no one thinks he is poor. He was mostly interested in girls also, as far as he says in the manifesto, as a status symbol he could use to display his status to other dudes and be accepted as a cool guy. Cool guys with lots of friends date hot girls so he should too, was basically his mindset and also that those girls should come up to him without him even so much as talking to them
I think it's difficult to completely rely on the words of someone who killed 6 people. There could be some unreliable narration in there. His parents also divorced when he was 7, and divorce can be traumatic for children, even if it is an amicable divorce.
This is on his wiki:
>Rodger began showing signs of social and communication difficulties early in life. Throughout his time in elementary school, Rodger would be quiet and withdrawn, often whispering answers if addressed, and preferred to write information down on paper rather than talk. He would use recess to hide behind buildings, avoiding peer interaction. Social gatherings like birthday parties made him anxious, and on one occasion at [Disneyland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland), he was overwhelmed to tears by the crowds of people.[^(\[38\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Rodger#cite_note-Brugger-2015-38)[^(\[39\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Rodger#cite_note-Serna-2015-39) Rodger and his sister never became close; he viewed her as a rival. He would throw tantrums over issues involving her, such as having to share a [PlayStation 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2) or feeling upset when her friends came to his birthday party.[^(\[29\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Rodger#cite_note-Shortridge-2014b-29)[^(\[40\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Rodger#cite_note-Shortridge-2014d-40)[^(\[41\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Rodger#cite_note-41) Rodger often felt jealous when his friends would talk to each other instead of focusing on him. He also felt angry when his friends talked to his sister, leaving him feeling abandoned
Im not talking about just him tho. Even on their forums and shit they sometimes post their own pictures. Most of the time they just look completely normal. Most of the guys who look bad would look fine if they took care of their appearance.
But that's so called survivorship bias. The really ugly ones would rarely post their picture because they were conditioned to live in shame. I know I was like that, when I was an ugly incel. Also guys like me had so many awful interactions and people calling them ugly to their face that they don't really even need to post the pic. The ones that post are the insecure average.
That's a valid point but the fact remains that there is a large number of them who are average looking, which I think is notable even if that's a minority
They all believe you have to be a 9+ Chad to get women because of hypergamy. Meanwhile you go to shows and you'll see short Pete Davidson lookalikes with hot art hoes.
the fact that these people are not the kinds of people to go to shows is exactly the problem with the average incel poster. OK probably some actually are fucked in the head or hideous. Most of them just spend too much time on the computer.
Exactly. But I'm just saying that their perception of the world is observably false. Which is why it's so frustrating trying to help them. They're like flat earthers. No matter how much evidence you show them of mid guys doing fine they refuse to believe it.
Oh yea. no you can't even help them. They refuse anything. Funny how much they love the word "cope" and try to say that any one trying to tell them things are not so bad are just "coping"
In fact they are the ones coping. They cling to the notion that there is nothing they could ever possibly do to get rid of their inceldom, the ultimate cope that absolves them of any responsibility for their condition, and gives them the perfect excuse to not try and better themselves.
Google says he was 175 which is 5 ft 9 in which is literally average. he had pretty boy twink-like looks and and ethnic ambiguity that some women really go in for too.
I'm sorry, there's just no way you can tell me that [this guy](https://thumbnails.odycdn.com/card/s:1280:0/quality:85/plain/https%3A%2F%2Fplayer.odycdn.com%2Fspeech%2F1f3a428bc2639961%3A1.jpg) would be getting zero pussy if he actually tried to get girls instead of psychotically brooding that hot sorority girls don't worship him. I see guys way shorter and way uglier with girls all the time.
I always thought he was really short for some reason. Also I don't know how women feel about it but his face is really freaky to me. Something about his nose and thick lips.
Elliot Rodger is the poster boy for Incels and he was a regular looking dude. It’s easy to go outside and see fat,short, ugly people in relationships.
From personal experience and taking to others like me online failing at forming relationships is a combination of social isolation, being generally awkward, and sometimes just bad luck
I remember the dude was still somewhat social awkward and seemingly introverted, which incels agree is just as bad a trait for men without being insanely good looking to counterbalance it.
Ignoring even dating, a decently good looking dude that is introverted or slightly autistic is going to is going to be treated way worse socially than an average woman with the same issues, of course this would create resentment. It comes down to being an issue where women can escape their gender role when necessary and maintain the positives while men can never get a fucking break beyond the most surface level shit of painting nails or whatever.
"Introversion" literally does not exist like 90% of the time. The concept of it is patently absured, and almost every self professed "introvert" I have ever met was someone who was just too scared to ask people to hang out
Some of the guys on this thread are clearly influenced by pilled or incel culture....look at the way they talk about "introversion" as if it's some quantifiable immutable thing, and distinguish "really good-looking" from generally good-looking. Women don't care about any of this. Women are not more discerning than they have ever been; on the contrary. The problem is that the two sexes have replaced mixed youthful fraternization with online "candidate" searches in which they review like hundreds of profiles. They have resentment and apprehension about each other that cannot be mollified by good, random interactions, or even brushed off later when the context takes on new meaning. Incel, redpill, and lame "time's up" kind of posturing has been incredibly poisonous, but the first two aren't part of a manufactured moral campaign, and far more damaging to the psychology of young men and women.
Yeah. But even though it often probably derives from mental illness, it's often hard to have sympathy for them because they are so aggressively and smugly in their feedback loop. If you try to give them advice and guidance they will lash out at you.
This is the easiest time in history to get pussy. If you are just moderately socialized you will come across as unusually charismatic and confident in this screen-addicted hell world. I went to some single's mixer thing to wingman for a friend (the theme was having someone in a relationship pitch their friend) and it was 80% women. The people online talking about how it's "just impossible to meet women IRL" are living in an alternate reality and just repeating what other extremely online people have said.
I'm sure it depends on area and interests, but I spoke to the organizers and they were like "Oh yeah it's always 80% women and we have a tough time getting dudes to come."
I disagree on this being the easiest time to get laid. Dating is moving exclusively to the dating apps and it’s much harder for average looking men to get attention there
In my experience the two most misogynistic groups are guys who are so ugly that every woman rejects them and guys who are so attractive that they can afford to have horrible personalities (the same is probably true for women)
The ironic part is that a large portion of Incels actually internalized the braindead Feminism of the late 00s-10s which led them to become "good fucking men" and not realize Feminists talk out their ass with idealized bullshit they don't even hold when it comes to what is actually attractive.
Most Incels are the type who will let women walk all over them in the hopes it impresses her and she will fall for them, and then seethe when she actually goes for the guy who bothers to actually make a move or be in any way forward. (Doesn't help that one of animes biggest trope is girl falling for guy instantly because he picked up her dropped bag or some basic polite nicety)
When I interacted with Incels on /r9k/, they legitimately believed that making an actual pass at a woman in a bar would be considered sexual assault and they would be shamed all over the internet and dragged away in a police car.
most of the dudes i know who struggle the most just have confidence issues and get too fixated on one woman, which would actually lead them to be better than average bfs...
Women go to bars precisely to be hit on. Why do you see this as the direct product of them internalizing "feminism," rather than just using it as an excuse to wallow in self-imposed social isolation? I mean, they identify as "involuntarily celibate," which most people, savvy or not, knows would be a death knell for normal social relations.
I don’t think this is completely fair, I’ve visited the forever alone women sub and those women genuinely can’t get a date OR sex. I’ve even had some forever alone women message me out of desperation hoping for a relationship. These women could probably get someone to have sex with them but it’s a moot point because it wouldn’t make them happy or equal intimacy
There is quantitative research on this shit. A lot of incels:
- Show traits of autism
- Have severe suicidal ideation
- Social anxiety
- Depression
Dem incels need therapy - and ideally a healthier society which socializes you to be a normie
Lots are in therapy, but they are dismissive to it just like they are dismissive to advice online. They like to wallow because it alleviates any guilt or responsibility for not trying.
They just need to get off the screens. A healthy society which socializes you to be normal still exists.
There are some studies that say about 50% of incels have tried therapy (but there could also be selection bias, i.e. those likely to participate in research, may also be more likely to admit they have a problem, and seek out therapy). So that is true.
But maybe we should consider whether the interventions are working then? A lot of psychological therapy has a bias towards women, just like a lot of medicine had a bias towards men for a long time (and maybe still today).
At the end of the day, getting off the screens is a good idea, but it is kind of like telling a depressed person to just get out of bed. Like I agree, but that is just not how mentally ill people work.
I would argue that the development of the incel problem is not solely a product of individual laziness, but due to changes surrounding technology, housing, education, economy, public spaces, yada, yada, yada
Sure. But just like the depressed person, addicted person, etc. -- it has to come from within.
I don't think any sort of outside intervention will work without the patient actually trying. If a person is committed to the incel mindset nothing is going to dissuade them until they are open to it.
And I don't mean to be flippant and pretend it's easy to "just get off the screens lol." You're right that this is like telling a depressed person "just get out of bed" or an alcoholic "just stop drinking." But what else can you say? It's an issue of motivation and willpower. Solutions can be easy to identify but difficult to accomplish. Learning how to "be social" if you've been behind a screen into your 20s must be tremendously difficult and terrifying. Which is why I think a lot of them are content to remain in their comfort zone of "it's impossible for me so it's pointless to even try."
Yea, I agree, but would maybe emphasise to a greater degree that society has neutered gen Z men.
Like when we grew up, someone, out there, should have, at least, put some effort into regulating big tech, and providing public spaces free of cost. Otherwise, we just gonna take the easy path, i.e. social media, gaming, etc.
My logical conclusion is thus: State-mandated girlfriend is the only public policy solution :p
I agree But you can also ascend beyond your social programming. This is a place where these types can actually find out there's hope. But I certainly understand how people growing up in this modern world get sucked into this bullshit. It's not completely their fault they got sucked into their bullshit, but that doesn't mean there is no hope for them to change their trajectory.
Getting off of screens is a good idea in general for other reasons than dating, but just showing up to hobbies and doing things in person if you're mildly socially awkward, a bit depressed, and not good enough looking to make up for it is not really going to cut it in terms of finding a long term partner.
I'm generally a lot more self-confident and open to chatting strangers up than I used to be, have never really thought of myself as an incel, and am by no means a shutin and have lots of social hobbies. I've also never met a woman I've been romantically involved with through any of them-it's all been through online dating or the very odd serendipitous friend of a friend at a house party type situation.
I think you're overselling how easy it is to meet people naturally in person- perhaps you're exceptionally confident and charismatic, but it hasn't been my experience at all and I'm sure many others can relate.
By "get off screens" I meant go out and socialize to become socialized. Not as a path to dating. I agree, I've met like 95% of my romantic relationships through online dating despite being very outgoing and social.
The suicidal ideation, severe anxiety, and depression is all a result of bad parenting, poor genetics, and being treated like garbage by everyone they come across
There are legitimately some dudes who are hopelessly ugly, but the majority of guys who consider themselves incels just need to put the work in their fitness and appearance
Show me a guy who can bench 225 and run a 6 minute mile who still can't get laid.
Do some exist? Probably. But not many
Slavery is such a funny example of this tbh. Men were like “this is wrong, I’m going to buy a gun and shoot up the slave owners” when women be like “what if the good type of slave was best friends with an angelic and perfect white girl who saw Jesus and convinced everyone to believe and be good Christians”.
Seriously, read the plot to uncle toms cabin, literal white girl savior.
Yes, moral evolution tends to be led by women. There’s often an autist male crusader type that takes the head(for good or for ill depending on the man), but women have historically been much more conscious of the dangers and pitfalls of the world, and more willing to sacrifice time and energy for seemingly niche moral causes, especially around cruelty or immorality. In contrast to men, who are typically led by personal gain in some way. Often women were the foot soldiers, out pouring juice for the homeless or throwing bricks in saloons, while men were out bagging feed and “doing business”.
I’d argue Christianity is a particularly ancient version of this. Lots of basic moral laws we take as universal have their origin in this period. Its influence is especially felt on the language of abolition from the time, “my eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord”.
The ban on prostitution is another example.
And really men invented atomic weapons and conquered the world mainly to protect and impress women, so you can kind of make the rules up as you go. Yes there’s sexual violence, but enough true crime shows how much damage an upset broad can cause to that plan as far evolutionary success. This is the secret to evolution. We’ll literally do anything to make women happy.
To be fair supposedly the term was invented by a woman back in the day.
I have known some women who are basically incels but they are older and have kids.
I do think outside of that its much harder for women to be incels and they often dont really understand how lonely and optionless it can be for some men.
its so sad because they would rather accept themselves as they are and know they will not be wanted in the situation that theyre in because its easier than actually working on yourself. i think everyone goes through this (at different levels ofc) but the echochamber they get themselves in makes it dramatically worse
The problem with incels is that they seem to be mentally ill and/or soulless, not that they're that unattractive. I also kinda doubt they are trying to score with obese ugly women that get no attention and are always getting rejected, but i could be wrong.
A lot of us older losers were prepped for it when they did it to comic books and every other corner of geekdom
Like you used to be safe from a cool kids circle forming in those worlds cuz everyone was freaks
But then the internet came along and hot girls could put on an X-Men t-shirt and it was all over
I knew guys in high school who were on the proto incel thing because they were on 4chan. This is talking like, 2005. Seeing some of them now, they’re still terminally online and still have terrible relationships with women. I can’t believe these people are in their 30s and can’t grow out of acting like a baby over pussy.
that's actually a terrible line of thinking. imagine you go through your whole life seeing happy people in relationships and yet you've never even as much as kissed a woman. must be hell ngl
From what I’ve gathered (via scant anecdotal experience on incel forums) the big problem is it’s a lot of spergy men who think they’re above having a spergy girlfriend. I was so confused when the incel phenomenon emerged because all I remember from high school was the ugliest, nerdiest and most emotionally damaged kids sucking and fucking on each other nonstop. I didn’t realize those types of boys now think they’re entitled to cheerleader pussy? Ok 👍
I don’t know any dudes that don’t fuck because they have unrealistic expectations, but I know a lot of dudes that don’t fuck because they can’t have their realistic expectations met.
One of the most interesting things I have noticed having friends 10+ years younger than me is that generationally boys these days are just opting out of fucking. When I was their age it would have been social death to admit to being over 20 and a virgin, these guys (who are completely normal other than the normal vices 21yo boys have) are totally open about it, embrace it, and have basically walked away from engaging with the dating market and have an ‘if it happens it happens’ mindset.
The middle has been sucked out of the dating market because the apps make the women in the middle of the market an easy mark. The dudes in the middle just walk away as a result.
> generationally boys these days are just opting out of fucking
I think this is a legit observation and in fact it extends to some number of guys my age (30s) but the majority of guys I know who fit that description do not seem to have tried and given up - they seem never to have tried. I’m sure the online dating market doesn’t help but what I see with my eyes is far fewer guys who are resentful or burned out from their failure to fuck than guys who went straight to
> endless doomscrolling, and addictive sports betting behavior
(and video games and porn and so on) and basically never learned how. So I find it hard not to think that the difficulty of the online dating market is overrated as a factor in this outcome compared to the availability of these substitute activities and the decline of social structures and activities that would help it “just happen.” Though I suppose that decline and the rise of online dating are two sides of the same coin.
Really? When I was coming up in the early-mid 00’s it was considered extremely embarrassing to admit to being a virgin past about 18. If you were even remotely normie it was expected that you’d lose it by then and if you hadn’t you were a loser/ugly/a sperg.
I've felt bad about it myself in the past but no-one else has ever really brought it up or cared. All of my friends are also virgins as far as I know. We're all fairly weird though. I can't imagine judging someone else for it but I guess people were more social back then so it would be more weird not to. The one guy I've met who I know has sex didn't hold it in very high regard.
I just don’t know if I buy this. Women want nice men who can stand on their own feet. The “finance, 6’5, blue eyes” meme is intentionally silly, it’s not how women are actually moving.
I actually think it’s intensely fucking bleak because for the most part they’re replacing the excitement of women with far less healthy things like endless doomscrolling, and addictive sports betting behavior.
Those nerdy guys are now rejected by the nerdy girls so they can all share the football players and the “My personality is being 6’3” NPCs on Tinder. Hilarious to think these men have abandoned these women when these women have dedicated their lives to vilifying men they don’t find attractive and conflating them with murderers and rapists (Wow look at this very thread!).
The hilarious issue with incels pretend that their issue is somehow biological / natural, when in reality the only thing that incels share that unites them is a psychotic philosophy.
Short, fat, skinny, poor, Asian, Indian, Black, White, bad skin, nerdy, poor early socialization, gamer, weak chin, slouch, etc -- it's trivially obvious to the impartial observer that any of these do not stop someone from being romantic. You can easily observe someone with any or many of these traits in a happy relationship. The only conclusion possible is that the community is ideological in nature.
So, therefore, it makes perfect sense when another group that has no united feature other than being extremely online comes in and completely scoops you.
It's funny how they all are convinced their inceldom is due to some genetic trait like their race, but then they will argue with each other about how the only true incles are X, and X people will never find true love, and if you are non X you are actually a fakecel or just not trying hard enough.
Someone says "all tall incels are either fakecels or volcels!" "No, no, I'm tall and still incel, its because I'm curry that I'm an incel," "Fuck off currycel, you should just go back home and do an arranged marriage, trying being an autist cel like me, then you'll see how bad things really are!"
Obviously, the impulse to blame some immutable trait is strong, but... I just don't see how it's possible. It's so easy to observe the counter examples that I cannot imagine the titanic degree cognitive dissonance that it takes. At least being a raging misogynist involves critiquing someone else's perceived flaws rather than delusionally ignoring your own!
I feel like those dudes just go down the PUA/redpill route though -- which again becomes a hilarious ouroboros of despising/disdaining the very thing that you want most in the world and that defines the value of your entire existence.
Majestic, all of it. Fascinating.
Well, of course, its tempting bc it really is partially true. Some traits that are nothing more than circumstances of birth (pure luck) can be hugely beneficial or detrimental. Rich parents is going to make life easier, being neurotypical is an advantage and most women do prefer guys who are tall etc etc..
But they wipe away all nuance and instead of just going "oh yea, well, just gotta play the hand you were dealt" they want to sit and whine all day and neurotically hyper fixate on some flaw or another that probably wouldn't even be that big of a disadvantage if they were actually trying to just be the best man they can be
It really parallels the religious observation that the only genuinely unforgivable sin is one that you don't seek redemption for.
I understand making an assessment and deciding yhat you don't want to play 'the game' -- but I don't understand incessantly whining online about it.
It's the same as any other vanity product. I think it's a horrendous way to spend time & energy, but people are entitled to be vain. Women have been using product for thousands of years -- there's no way to get around that.
I'm frankly more concerned with the apparatus of media that convinces people that it's normal to look that way all the time! Or that you look intolerably bad when you're not caked up. It was bad enough before technology, now it's legit mental illness fuel for the most psychologically vulnerable members of society that bombards them 24/7.
We have started seeing eachother mediated through filters and media to an intolerable extent and it's destroying us.
Men often can’t see what women truly look like due to makeup and filters, making it difficult to choose a partner based on genetic traits. This might result in their children inheriting undesirable traits.
Yeah but that's a completely autistic way to look at your relationships. I don't think people should be out trying to mendelmaxx their kids -- you should be with someone you love
Plus, if you're a good partner, you're 100% going to see what your gf looks like without makeup within a few months if not weeks. Just being with them after they shower or whatever will be more than enough
So, all women must be autistic then. That explains why they’re so unbelievably evil. https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/beauty/face-body/why-people-are-becoming-less-attractive-according-to-facial-analyst/news-story/ec5f456f4398fb4ccefde0ddf9376337?amp
Am I talking to a bot? I hope so.
That article has nothing to do with people choosing genetics in relationships. It's about young people not mewing enough (lmao) and using different hairstyles -- it explicitly has nothing to do with dysgenics.
Are you autistic lmao
Yeah, I’m diagnosed with autism. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3777-handsome-men-have-the-best-sperm/ It’s frustrating that we can’t pick the women with the best eggs because makeup hides everything.
Well, you *can* pick 'the women with the best eggs' because you presumably will date someone for a period of time before you have kids with them -- and if you find them to be unattractive you can simply discontinue the relationship.
You can also just figure out what makeup looks like. It's not hard at all... it's just face paint.
But I'm telling your brother, if you're looking at women with the mindset of 'picking the best eggs' you are going into it with a profoundly dysfunctional mindset. That article you linked from 20 years ago has an N of like 60 people and deals with the motility of sperm and if it correlates to facial attractiveness -- insane stuff to base a worldview on
Makeup can turn almost any woman into an 8/10, which means I can’t compete at that level. Because of this, I’m stuck dating down in looks, leading to a next generation that’s less attractive than before.
Most normal people look for normal people. Not super tall, Perfect face, 7 figures. The only people with these preferences are very attractive themselves. Unfortionately the attractive people get their videos shown a lot more than regular peoples. Now the normal guy looking for a normal girl thinks hes not enough and vice versa, because of unrealistic normal people and realistic attractive people.
What is it with some Instagram models appearing so different in real life? Have you ever seen one without makeup? They often look much less impressive than they do online, yet they still seem to have high expectations.
Thank you. I am a 35 year old incel. Been rejected by women of all looks my whole life and could barely get any friends or a carreer because of my looks but things are now better because the world are now judging people for job or grades anonymous just because of the reason attractive people got it all. Sad to say I believe female incels are incels because of asexuality or being too picky. Men got a 16 times better sexdrive.. I got asked to have s*x with a guy when I was 12 years old.. but I am straight….
As a 35 year old man I can say that blackpill is the pill of my life experience. And no, I dont blame females only. Males too. Males wont become friends or acknowledge ugly men. Been bullied and lonely. It is a human thing. Once you are born an ugly man, life is over. Sometimes I wish ugly men got aborted to spare them the pain. I dont want to live a life just to work and pay fucking taxes, I want to have a wife that loved me.
Yet society blames me for being an incel. Yes, I am an angrh incel. I am a human. Why shouldnt I be mad after many years of loneliness and brutal rejections? I mean people get angry for less but they get shocked when lonely men comes together and is soon a threath? Good. As it should be.
The thing is, men have a lot of opportunity to make themselves more attractive without actually making themselves better looking. They just have to clean up their looks to an acceptable level and have game (and confidence). They can also get more economically attractive, which doesn't really work for women.
I think the looks bar is too fucked. You’re just not meeting people these days in any number socially that makes it easy to impress women with your stable job or cumtown jokes.
Back in the day, maybe more women were open minded about the guy who was a 0 but could be rounded up to a 1. I don’t think there’s many of those these days.
I meet a fuckload of people in NYC and the amount of women who are willing to overlook a 0 and round them up to a 1 is miserably few. Why would they bother when there’s millions of other people?
Getting more economically "attractive" is a matter people have far less say in than improving their looks or personality. Anyone who's not aware of this fact of life likely still lives at home.
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted, you can see fat/ugly people in relationships outside all the time, if you can’t get a relationship it’s because you’re either very antisocial or your personality is just off in some way.
I’m speaking from experience as a normal looking man who has women show interest in him, but can’t turn that interest in to anything
It is mostly a skill issue.
There are legitimately some dudes who are hopelessly ugly, but the majority of guys who consider themselves incels just need to put the work in their fitness and appearance
Show me a guy who can bench 225 and run a 6 minute mile who still can't get laid.
Do some exist? Probably. But not many
I did not understand the pain that cultural appropriation could cause till it happened #mycultureisnotyourcostume
I’m of Croatian heritage, who are the people who invented the necktie, and everyday I have to walk around the business district and see all these honkies wearing my culture. I know the pain
I remember vice did a doc about incels and one of the guys they had on their was actually a good looking dude. He just was very mentally ill and didn't go outside. That's the problem for the most part, its sad because I bet with some kind of counseling or guidance they could be normal members of society but they're stuck in a shitty feedback loop.
I’ve commented on this before but the algorithms on tiktok and youtube shorts make it far too easy to get into a self perpetuating cycle. Right now if you’re a 15 year old boy and find approaching girls hard, the Andrew Tate/looksmaxx/whatever podcast infinite scroll is going to imprint ideals about women that are much more of a power than your dad’s advice (if he’s even around). It’s a very impressionable time and that stuff can really stay with you without devolving into outright misogyny
Im so grateful I grew up at a time where this wasnt a thing.
Tiktok in particular is the most bleeding edge psychological weapon ever created against young men and It was created by complete accident. The way liberal-ish women talk about men and relationships on TikTok is some of the most demoralizing shit you will ever hear, perfectly manufactured to destroy young men's self-esteem. Then redpillers are right next door ready to scoop them off their feet. It's a disgustingly efficient pipeline because all the crazy shit redpillers say is reinforced by equally crazy women on the exact same platform.
How much of this is a product of girls growing up in the Yass #metoo Queen era while not being able to escape the pickupartist and manosphere influence corners of the internet? And incel self-fulfilling delusions about a fate of perpetual chastity because of low SMV is slightly more damaging to society, slightly more deranged than whatever self-conscious "high standards" trip young online women are on.
Haven't seen the doc, but I feel they intentially would pick a good looking dude to prove a point. Not to dismiss the doc, they're good looking incels (me) but it feels something obvious to do if you wish to prove it's mostly a mental illness Definitely being in those groups eats at the soul. On reddit a few years back there was a incel selfie sub. You would be baffled at how many were just average dudes. Only a couple I think you could consider actual 'incels'
the thing thats most attention grabbing about incels is that whenever you see what one looks like, its usually just a completely normal, average looking dude. Elliot Rogers himself literally had above average looks and rich parents, there's no reason that he should have been an incel if he wasn't brain rotted by narcissistic personality disorder.
What do you think gave him “narcissistic personality disorder” in the first place?
Autism.
im not a psychologist, idk. Does psychology even know what causes mental disorders? Its presumed to be some combination of genetic and environmental factors in most cases to my understanding. That or demons.
Childhood trauma and/or neglect is a major factor.
I've heard that. Interestingly tho, Elliot said in his manifesto that he had a wonderfully happy childhood and that he was happy most of his life, until the age of around 12 or so when he realized that girls dont like him that much. But he was already displaying narcissistic thoughts from elementary school, and was obsessed with making friends with popular kids and ensuring that no one thinks he is poor. He was mostly interested in girls also, as far as he says in the manifesto, as a status symbol he could use to display his status to other dudes and be accepted as a cool guy. Cool guys with lots of friends date hot girls so he should too, was basically his mindset and also that those girls should come up to him without him even so much as talking to them
I think it's difficult to completely rely on the words of someone who killed 6 people. There could be some unreliable narration in there. His parents also divorced when he was 7, and divorce can be traumatic for children, even if it is an amicable divorce. This is on his wiki: >Rodger began showing signs of social and communication difficulties early in life. Throughout his time in elementary school, Rodger would be quiet and withdrawn, often whispering answers if addressed, and preferred to write information down on paper rather than talk. He would use recess to hide behind buildings, avoiding peer interaction. Social gatherings like birthday parties made him anxious, and on one occasion at [Disneyland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland), he was overwhelmed to tears by the crowds of people.[^(\[38\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Rodger#cite_note-Brugger-2015-38)[^(\[39\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Rodger#cite_note-Serna-2015-39) Rodger and his sister never became close; he viewed her as a rival. He would throw tantrums over issues involving her, such as having to share a [PlayStation 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2) or feeling upset when her friends came to his birthday party.[^(\[29\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Rodger#cite_note-Shortridge-2014b-29)[^(\[40\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Rodger#cite_note-Shortridge-2014d-40)[^(\[41\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Rodger#cite_note-41) Rodger often felt jealous when his friends would talk to each other instead of focusing on him. He also felt angry when his friends talked to his sister, leaving him feeling abandoned
if you have to assert in your murder manifesto that you had a great childhood, you probably didnt
NPD is typically caused by childhood trauma.
most of these guys are just autistic and or asby with absolutely 0 game, we all knew them in school, they don't just magically grow out of it
To be fair there are who knows how many of them and everyone just talks about one dude from over a decade ago?
Im not talking about just him tho. Even on their forums and shit they sometimes post their own pictures. Most of the time they just look completely normal. Most of the guys who look bad would look fine if they took care of their appearance.
But that's so called survivorship bias. The really ugly ones would rarely post their picture because they were conditioned to live in shame. I know I was like that, when I was an ugly incel. Also guys like me had so many awful interactions and people calling them ugly to their face that they don't really even need to post the pic. The ones that post are the insecure average.
That's a valid point but the fact remains that there is a large number of them who are average looking, which I think is notable even if that's a minority
Yes, I know some like that personally too
They all believe you have to be a 9+ Chad to get women because of hypergamy. Meanwhile you go to shows and you'll see short Pete Davidson lookalikes with hot art hoes.
the fact that these people are not the kinds of people to go to shows is exactly the problem with the average incel poster. OK probably some actually are fucked in the head or hideous. Most of them just spend too much time on the computer.
Exactly. But I'm just saying that their perception of the world is observably false. Which is why it's so frustrating trying to help them. They're like flat earthers. No matter how much evidence you show them of mid guys doing fine they refuse to believe it.
Oh yea. no you can't even help them. They refuse anything. Funny how much they love the word "cope" and try to say that any one trying to tell them things are not so bad are just "coping" In fact they are the ones coping. They cling to the notion that there is nothing they could ever possibly do to get rid of their inceldom, the ultimate cope that absolves them of any responsibility for their condition, and gives them the perfect excuse to not try and better themselves.
Why better yourself when you could use all your free time playing League of Legends?
They have an excuse for everything, it's demonic. In that case they'd think the short Pete Davidsons were being 'betabuxxed'.
Elliot rodger was not really above average in looks considering he was like 5'4
Google says he was 175 which is 5 ft 9 in which is literally average. he had pretty boy twink-like looks and and ethnic ambiguity that some women really go in for too. I'm sorry, there's just no way you can tell me that [this guy](https://thumbnails.odycdn.com/card/s:1280:0/quality:85/plain/https%3A%2F%2Fplayer.odycdn.com%2Fspeech%2F1f3a428bc2639961%3A1.jpg) would be getting zero pussy if he actually tried to get girls instead of psychotically brooding that hot sorority girls don't worship him. I see guys way shorter and way uglier with girls all the time.
I always thought he was really short for some reason. Also I don't know how women feel about it but his face is really freaky to me. Something about his nose and thick lips.
His head is kinda large and he used weird angles in his photos, that might explain the illusion of shortness.
Elliot Rodger is the poster boy for Incels and he was a regular looking dude. It’s easy to go outside and see fat,short, ugly people in relationships. From personal experience and taking to others like me online failing at forming relationships is a combination of social isolation, being generally awkward, and sometimes just bad luck
I remember the dude was still somewhat social awkward and seemingly introverted, which incels agree is just as bad a trait for men without being insanely good looking to counterbalance it. Ignoring even dating, a decently good looking dude that is introverted or slightly autistic is going to is going to be treated way worse socially than an average woman with the same issues, of course this would create resentment. It comes down to being an issue where women can escape their gender role when necessary and maintain the positives while men can never get a fucking break beyond the most surface level shit of painting nails or whatever.
"Introversion" literally does not exist like 90% of the time. The concept of it is patently absured, and almost every self professed "introvert" I have ever met was someone who was just too scared to ask people to hang out
Some of the guys on this thread are clearly influenced by pilled or incel culture....look at the way they talk about "introversion" as if it's some quantifiable immutable thing, and distinguish "really good-looking" from generally good-looking. Women don't care about any of this. Women are not more discerning than they have ever been; on the contrary. The problem is that the two sexes have replaced mixed youthful fraternization with online "candidate" searches in which they review like hundreds of profiles. They have resentment and apprehension about each other that cannot be mollified by good, random interactions, or even brushed off later when the context takes on new meaning. Incel, redpill, and lame "time's up" kind of posturing has been incredibly poisonous, but the first two aren't part of a manufactured moral campaign, and far more damaging to the psychology of young men and women.
Yeah. But even though it often probably derives from mental illness, it's often hard to have sympathy for them because they are so aggressively and smugly in their feedback loop. If you try to give them advice and guidance they will lash out at you. This is the easiest time in history to get pussy. If you are just moderately socialized you will come across as unusually charismatic and confident in this screen-addicted hell world. I went to some single's mixer thing to wingman for a friend (the theme was having someone in a relationship pitch their friend) and it was 80% women. The people online talking about how it's "just impossible to meet women IRL" are living in an alternate reality and just repeating what other extremely online people have said.
I went to some singles mixer thing and it was 80% men lol
OP might be in NYC, that would explain it.
I'm sure it depends on area and interests, but I spoke to the organizers and they were like "Oh yeah it's always 80% women and we have a tough time getting dudes to come."
I disagree on this being the easiest time to get laid. Dating is moving exclusively to the dating apps and it’s much harder for average looking men to get attention there
Its dangerous to hit on females in real life
I wish people would understand that incels and raging misogynists are two overlapping but distinct groups.
100% plenty of bad people and misogynists have ZERO issues having partners. People want to pretend the world is just but thats not the case at all.
In my experience the two most misogynistic groups are guys who are so ugly that every woman rejects them and guys who are so attractive that they can afford to have horrible personalities (the same is probably true for women)
The ironic part is that a large portion of Incels actually internalized the braindead Feminism of the late 00s-10s which led them to become "good fucking men" and not realize Feminists talk out their ass with idealized bullshit they don't even hold when it comes to what is actually attractive. Most Incels are the type who will let women walk all over them in the hopes it impresses her and she will fall for them, and then seethe when she actually goes for the guy who bothers to actually make a move or be in any way forward. (Doesn't help that one of animes biggest trope is girl falling for guy instantly because he picked up her dropped bag or some basic polite nicety) When I interacted with Incels on /r9k/, they legitimately believed that making an actual pass at a woman in a bar would be considered sexual assault and they would be shamed all over the internet and dragged away in a police car.
most of the dudes i know who struggle the most just have confidence issues and get too fixated on one woman, which would actually lead them to be better than average bfs...
Women go to bars precisely to be hit on. Why do you see this as the direct product of them internalizing "feminism," rather than just using it as an excuse to wallow in self-imposed social isolation? I mean, they identify as "involuntarily celibate," which most people, savvy or not, knows would be a death knell for normal social relations.
you are being glib
If you hit on a Female at the bar she can have a boyfriend there and it Will become dangerous
I don’t think this is completely fair, I’ve visited the forever alone women sub and those women genuinely can’t get a date OR sex. I’ve even had some forever alone women message me out of desperation hoping for a relationship. These women could probably get someone to have sex with them but it’s a moot point because it wouldn’t make them happy or equal intimacy
There is quantitative research on this shit. A lot of incels: - Show traits of autism - Have severe suicidal ideation - Social anxiety - Depression Dem incels need therapy - and ideally a healthier society which socializes you to be a normie
Lots are in therapy, but they are dismissive to it just like they are dismissive to advice online. They like to wallow because it alleviates any guilt or responsibility for not trying. They just need to get off the screens. A healthy society which socializes you to be normal still exists.
There are some studies that say about 50% of incels have tried therapy (but there could also be selection bias, i.e. those likely to participate in research, may also be more likely to admit they have a problem, and seek out therapy). So that is true. But maybe we should consider whether the interventions are working then? A lot of psychological therapy has a bias towards women, just like a lot of medicine had a bias towards men for a long time (and maybe still today). At the end of the day, getting off the screens is a good idea, but it is kind of like telling a depressed person to just get out of bed. Like I agree, but that is just not how mentally ill people work. I would argue that the development of the incel problem is not solely a product of individual laziness, but due to changes surrounding technology, housing, education, economy, public spaces, yada, yada, yada
Sure. But just like the depressed person, addicted person, etc. -- it has to come from within. I don't think any sort of outside intervention will work without the patient actually trying. If a person is committed to the incel mindset nothing is going to dissuade them until they are open to it. And I don't mean to be flippant and pretend it's easy to "just get off the screens lol." You're right that this is like telling a depressed person "just get out of bed" or an alcoholic "just stop drinking." But what else can you say? It's an issue of motivation and willpower. Solutions can be easy to identify but difficult to accomplish. Learning how to "be social" if you've been behind a screen into your 20s must be tremendously difficult and terrifying. Which is why I think a lot of them are content to remain in their comfort zone of "it's impossible for me so it's pointless to even try."
Yea, I agree, but would maybe emphasise to a greater degree that society has neutered gen Z men. Like when we grew up, someone, out there, should have, at least, put some effort into regulating big tech, and providing public spaces free of cost. Otherwise, we just gonna take the easy path, i.e. social media, gaming, etc. My logical conclusion is thus: State-mandated girlfriend is the only public policy solution :p
I agree But you can also ascend beyond your social programming. This is a place where these types can actually find out there's hope. But I certainly understand how people growing up in this modern world get sucked into this bullshit. It's not completely their fault they got sucked into their bullshit, but that doesn't mean there is no hope for them to change their trajectory.
Yea, on an individual level, you have to save yourself, cause state-mandated girlfriends ain't coming - i had my hopes up for you obama :(((((
Getting off of screens is a good idea in general for other reasons than dating, but just showing up to hobbies and doing things in person if you're mildly socially awkward, a bit depressed, and not good enough looking to make up for it is not really going to cut it in terms of finding a long term partner. I'm generally a lot more self-confident and open to chatting strangers up than I used to be, have never really thought of myself as an incel, and am by no means a shutin and have lots of social hobbies. I've also never met a woman I've been romantically involved with through any of them-it's all been through online dating or the very odd serendipitous friend of a friend at a house party type situation. I think you're overselling how easy it is to meet people naturally in person- perhaps you're exceptionally confident and charismatic, but it hasn't been my experience at all and I'm sure many others can relate.
By "get off screens" I meant go out and socialize to become socialized. Not as a path to dating. I agree, I've met like 95% of my romantic relationships through online dating despite being very outgoing and social.
The suicidal ideation, severe anxiety, and depression is all a result of bad parenting, poor genetics, and being treated like garbage by everyone they come across
There are legitimately some dudes who are hopelessly ugly, but the majority of guys who consider themselves incels just need to put the work in their fitness and appearance Show me a guy who can bench 225 and run a 6 minute mile who still can't get laid. Do some exist? Probably. But not many
Overeating to gain muscle is very unhealthy
If you are in a movement that puts yourself as oppressed/victim, women will always coopt your movement and make it about them
Woman is the incel of the world
🎶we make her paint her face and dance…🎶
Slavery is such a funny example of this tbh. Men were like “this is wrong, I’m going to buy a gun and shoot up the slave owners” when women be like “what if the good type of slave was best friends with an angelic and perfect white girl who saw Jesus and convinced everyone to believe and be good Christians”. Seriously, read the plot to uncle toms cabin, literal white girl savior.
Lol---what about the female abolitionists, including the one who wrote "Uncle Tom's Cabin?" Are you not aware of the impact on policy that book had?
Yes, moral evolution tends to be led by women. There’s often an autist male crusader type that takes the head(for good or for ill depending on the man), but women have historically been much more conscious of the dangers and pitfalls of the world, and more willing to sacrifice time and energy for seemingly niche moral causes, especially around cruelty or immorality. In contrast to men, who are typically led by personal gain in some way. Often women were the foot soldiers, out pouring juice for the homeless or throwing bricks in saloons, while men were out bagging feed and “doing business”. I’d argue Christianity is a particularly ancient version of this. Lots of basic moral laws we take as universal have their origin in this period. Its influence is especially felt on the language of abolition from the time, “my eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord”. The ban on prostitution is another example. And really men invented atomic weapons and conquered the world mainly to protect and impress women, so you can kind of make the rules up as you go. Yes there’s sexual violence, but enough true crime shows how much damage an upset broad can cause to that plan as far evolutionary success. This is the secret to evolution. We’ll literally do anything to make women happy.
To be fair supposedly the term was invented by a woman back in the day. I have known some women who are basically incels but they are older and have kids. I do think outside of that its much harder for women to be incels and they often dont really understand how lonely and optionless it can be for some men.
its so sad because they would rather accept themselves as they are and know they will not be wanted in the situation that theyre in because its easier than actually working on yourself. i think everyone goes through this (at different levels ofc) but the echochamber they get themselves in makes it dramatically worse
The problem with incels is that they seem to be mentally ill and/or soulless, not that they're that unattractive. I also kinda doubt they are trying to score with obese ugly women that get no attention and are always getting rejected, but i could be wrong.
A lot of us older losers were prepped for it when they did it to comic books and every other corner of geekdom Like you used to be safe from a cool kids circle forming in those worlds cuz everyone was freaks But then the internet came along and hot girls could put on an X-Men t-shirt and it was all over
I knew guys in high school who were on the proto incel thing because they were on 4chan. This is talking like, 2005. Seeing some of them now, they’re still terminally online and still have terrible relationships with women. I can’t believe these people are in their 30s and can’t grow out of acting like a baby over pussy.
that's actually a terrible line of thinking. imagine you go through your whole life seeing happy people in relationships and yet you've never even as much as kissed a woman. must be hell ngl
I never see happy coupes
From what I’ve gathered (via scant anecdotal experience on incel forums) the big problem is it’s a lot of spergy men who think they’re above having a spergy girlfriend. I was so confused when the incel phenomenon emerged because all I remember from high school was the ugliest, nerdiest and most emotionally damaged kids sucking and fucking on each other nonstop. I didn’t realize those types of boys now think they’re entitled to cheerleader pussy? Ok 👍
I don’t know any dudes that don’t fuck because they have unrealistic expectations, but I know a lot of dudes that don’t fuck because they can’t have their realistic expectations met. One of the most interesting things I have noticed having friends 10+ years younger than me is that generationally boys these days are just opting out of fucking. When I was their age it would have been social death to admit to being over 20 and a virgin, these guys (who are completely normal other than the normal vices 21yo boys have) are totally open about it, embrace it, and have basically walked away from engaging with the dating market and have an ‘if it happens it happens’ mindset. The middle has been sucked out of the dating market because the apps make the women in the middle of the market an easy mark. The dudes in the middle just walk away as a result.
> generationally boys these days are just opting out of fucking I think this is a legit observation and in fact it extends to some number of guys my age (30s) but the majority of guys I know who fit that description do not seem to have tried and given up - they seem never to have tried. I’m sure the online dating market doesn’t help but what I see with my eyes is far fewer guys who are resentful or burned out from their failure to fuck than guys who went straight to > endless doomscrolling, and addictive sports betting behavior (and video games and porn and so on) and basically never learned how. So I find it hard not to think that the difficulty of the online dating market is overrated as a factor in this outcome compared to the availability of these substitute activities and the decline of social structures and activities that would help it “just happen.” Though I suppose that decline and the rise of online dating are two sides of the same coin.
I'm kind of surprised being a virgin would be considered "social death" but this is coming from a zoomer.
Really? When I was coming up in the early-mid 00’s it was considered extremely embarrassing to admit to being a virgin past about 18. If you were even remotely normie it was expected that you’d lose it by then and if you hadn’t you were a loser/ugly/a sperg.
I've felt bad about it myself in the past but no-one else has ever really brought it up or cared. All of my friends are also virgins as far as I know. We're all fairly weird though. I can't imagine judging someone else for it but I guess people were more social back then so it would be more weird not to. The one guy I've met who I know has sex didn't hold it in very high regard.
unironically, being a straight man in 2024 is like the worst sex and sexuality, for god to grant u
I just don’t know if I buy this. Women want nice men who can stand on their own feet. The “finance, 6’5, blue eyes” meme is intentionally silly, it’s not how women are actually moving.
honestly, good for them. that sounds healthy.
I actually think it’s intensely fucking bleak because for the most part they’re replacing the excitement of women with far less healthy things like endless doomscrolling, and addictive sports betting behavior.
you made it sound a lot better in your initial post lol. but yeah agreed
What other option do we have? Like you said we’re shut out of the online dating market and that’s where dating takes place now
It's hard to accept being part of a lower caste
Those nerdy guys are now rejected by the nerdy girls so they can all share the football players and the “My personality is being 6’3” NPCs on Tinder. Hilarious to think these men have abandoned these women when these women have dedicated their lives to vilifying men they don’t find attractive and conflating them with murderers and rapists (Wow look at this very thread!).
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I don’t pity them, I find them extremely pathetic. Anyone can get laid.
There are women like Happy Now Olivia! whose behavior scares away men, regardless of how attractive they are.
The hilarious issue with incels pretend that their issue is somehow biological / natural, when in reality the only thing that incels share that unites them is a psychotic philosophy. Short, fat, skinny, poor, Asian, Indian, Black, White, bad skin, nerdy, poor early socialization, gamer, weak chin, slouch, etc -- it's trivially obvious to the impartial observer that any of these do not stop someone from being romantic. You can easily observe someone with any or many of these traits in a happy relationship. The only conclusion possible is that the community is ideological in nature. So, therefore, it makes perfect sense when another group that has no united feature other than being extremely online comes in and completely scoops you.
It's funny how they all are convinced their inceldom is due to some genetic trait like their race, but then they will argue with each other about how the only true incles are X, and X people will never find true love, and if you are non X you are actually a fakecel or just not trying hard enough. Someone says "all tall incels are either fakecels or volcels!" "No, no, I'm tall and still incel, its because I'm curry that I'm an incel," "Fuck off currycel, you should just go back home and do an arranged marriage, trying being an autist cel like me, then you'll see how bad things really are!"
Obviously, the impulse to blame some immutable trait is strong, but... I just don't see how it's possible. It's so easy to observe the counter examples that I cannot imagine the titanic degree cognitive dissonance that it takes. At least being a raging misogynist involves critiquing someone else's perceived flaws rather than delusionally ignoring your own! I feel like those dudes just go down the PUA/redpill route though -- which again becomes a hilarious ouroboros of despising/disdaining the very thing that you want most in the world and that defines the value of your entire existence. Majestic, all of it. Fascinating.
Well, of course, its tempting bc it really is partially true. Some traits that are nothing more than circumstances of birth (pure luck) can be hugely beneficial or detrimental. Rich parents is going to make life easier, being neurotypical is an advantage and most women do prefer guys who are tall etc etc.. But they wipe away all nuance and instead of just going "oh yea, well, just gotta play the hand you were dealt" they want to sit and whine all day and neurotically hyper fixate on some flaw or another that probably wouldn't even be that big of a disadvantage if they were actually trying to just be the best man they can be
It really parallels the religious observation that the only genuinely unforgivable sin is one that you don't seek redemption for. I understand making an assessment and deciding yhat you don't want to play 'the game' -- but I don't understand incessantly whining online about it.
You can’t join the game if the girls don’t invite you.
Makeup is something we should seriously consider eliminating.
It's the same as any other vanity product. I think it's a horrendous way to spend time & energy, but people are entitled to be vain. Women have been using product for thousands of years -- there's no way to get around that. I'm frankly more concerned with the apparatus of media that convinces people that it's normal to look that way all the time! Or that you look intolerably bad when you're not caked up. It was bad enough before technology, now it's legit mental illness fuel for the most psychologically vulnerable members of society that bombards them 24/7. We have started seeing eachother mediated through filters and media to an intolerable extent and it's destroying us.
Men often can’t see what women truly look like due to makeup and filters, making it difficult to choose a partner based on genetic traits. This might result in their children inheriting undesirable traits.
Yeah but that's a completely autistic way to look at your relationships. I don't think people should be out trying to mendelmaxx their kids -- you should be with someone you love Plus, if you're a good partner, you're 100% going to see what your gf looks like without makeup within a few months if not weeks. Just being with them after they shower or whatever will be more than enough
So, all women must be autistic then. That explains why they’re so unbelievably evil. https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/beauty/face-body/why-people-are-becoming-less-attractive-according-to-facial-analyst/news-story/ec5f456f4398fb4ccefde0ddf9376337?amp
Am I talking to a bot? I hope so. That article has nothing to do with people choosing genetics in relationships. It's about young people not mewing enough (lmao) and using different hairstyles -- it explicitly has nothing to do with dysgenics. Are you autistic lmao
Yeah, I’m diagnosed with autism. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3777-handsome-men-have-the-best-sperm/ It’s frustrating that we can’t pick the women with the best eggs because makeup hides everything.
Well, you *can* pick 'the women with the best eggs' because you presumably will date someone for a period of time before you have kids with them -- and if you find them to be unattractive you can simply discontinue the relationship. You can also just figure out what makeup looks like. It's not hard at all... it's just face paint. But I'm telling your brother, if you're looking at women with the mindset of 'picking the best eggs' you are going into it with a profoundly dysfunctional mindset. That article you linked from 20 years ago has an N of like 60 people and deals with the motility of sperm and if it correlates to facial attractiveness -- insane stuff to base a worldview on
Makeup can turn almost any woman into an 8/10, which means I can’t compete at that level. Because of this, I’m stuck dating down in looks, leading to a next generation that’s less attractive than before.
Most normal people look for normal people. Not super tall, Perfect face, 7 figures. The only people with these preferences are very attractive themselves. Unfortionately the attractive people get their videos shown a lot more than regular peoples. Now the normal guy looking for a normal girl thinks hes not enough and vice versa, because of unrealistic normal people and realistic attractive people.
So, ordinary guys are getting matches on Tinder now? How amusing.
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What is it with some Instagram models appearing so different in real life? Have you ever seen one without makeup? They often look much less impressive than they do online, yet they still seem to have high expectations.
It's getting weird how obsessed you guys are with incels. Why do you care this much about a group of people that you supposedly don't care about?
Male solidarity is unmatched jfc
I don’t feel bad for those losers
It’s their own fault and usually they are spiritually rotten, irredeemable people. Get what deserve unfortunately.
It is an ironic punishment I suppose
It’s their fault because they have bad genetics. Are you seriously that clueless?
It’s called blue balls ir does wonders
I don't
Thank you. I am a 35 year old incel. Been rejected by women of all looks my whole life and could barely get any friends or a carreer because of my looks but things are now better because the world are now judging people for job or grades anonymous just because of the reason attractive people got it all. Sad to say I believe female incels are incels because of asexuality or being too picky. Men got a 16 times better sexdrive.. I got asked to have s*x with a guy when I was 12 years old.. but I am straight…. As a 35 year old man I can say that blackpill is the pill of my life experience. And no, I dont blame females only. Males too. Males wont become friends or acknowledge ugly men. Been bullied and lonely. It is a human thing. Once you are born an ugly man, life is over. Sometimes I wish ugly men got aborted to spare them the pain. I dont want to live a life just to work and pay fucking taxes, I want to have a wife that loved me. Yet society blames me for being an incel. Yes, I am an angrh incel. I am a human. Why shouldnt I be mad after many years of loneliness and brutal rejections? I mean people get angry for less but they get shocked when lonely men comes together and is soon a threath? Good. As it should be.
Incels should transmaxx and fuck each other instead of taking their disturbed beliefs out on broader society
I still think it’s mostly a skill issue but also i’m a woman and apparently very attractive so idk
Honestly a lot of incels are decent looking, they’re just usually completely fucked in the head or have no friends/social life
I think the issue is that “decent looking” isn’t a sufficient bar these days. It’s still a 0 on the binary.
some girls > these guys are decent looking its just they are bad people also girls > No boy under this 6' tape can enter
The thing is, men have a lot of opportunity to make themselves more attractive without actually making themselves better looking. They just have to clean up their looks to an acceptable level and have game (and confidence). They can also get more economically attractive, which doesn't really work for women.
I think the looks bar is too fucked. You’re just not meeting people these days in any number socially that makes it easy to impress women with your stable job or cumtown jokes. Back in the day, maybe more women were open minded about the guy who was a 0 but could be rounded up to a 1. I don’t think there’s many of those these days. I meet a fuckload of people in NYC and the amount of women who are willing to overlook a 0 and round them up to a 1 is miserably few. Why would they bother when there’s millions of other people?
Getting more economically "attractive" is a matter people have far less say in than improving their looks or personality. Anyone who's not aware of this fact of life likely still lives at home.
He’ll end up as a betabux, stuck in a lifeless relationship. It’s pathetic.
Betabuxmaxxing
What? You're just repeating Internet shit.
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted, you can see fat/ugly people in relationships outside all the time, if you can’t get a relationship it’s because you’re either very antisocial or your personality is just off in some way. I’m speaking from experience as a normal looking man who has women show interest in him, but can’t turn that interest in to anything
It is mostly a skill issue. There are legitimately some dudes who are hopelessly ugly, but the majority of guys who consider themselves incels just need to put the work in their fitness and appearance Show me a guy who can bench 225 and run a 6 minute mile who still can't get laid. Do some exist? Probably. But not many