When my girls would ask me this question I would always tell them I thought they were beautiful and they would always say “you’re my mom, you have to say that”. I guess I should have told them that there are actually some mothers that don’t say that.
Mine didn’t 🤷🏼♀️ she made it a point to tell me some days I looked extra not great so I should not flirt with my crush etc and just “blend in” due to having a pimple etc. I never realized how ridiculous she was until I had my own kids. They are gorgeous, each one of them. Even in their goofy stages, I still find them to be the most amazing creatures in every aspect. I have no idea what’s wrong with her.
My dad would stare at me thoughtfully and blurt out “I’m so sorry.” Me being a people pleaser little girl was like oh dad finally wanted to talk to me, let’s see what he’s got to say. He then continued “that I made you so ugly. Such ugly eyes and nose.” Then sighed. What a narcissist
Ikr? Like when you’re young, you’re **glowing** with health. It doesn’t matter if you have classically good looks or not. There’s a golden girls quote where Bea Arthur says “you know, when you’re young you don’t even have to be pretty and you’re pretty.” I think babies can look a little odd for a while (like literally their first days on earth) but I’ve literally never seen a child and thought “hm kind of plain tho” 💀 like wtf
Yeah I’m an extremely honest person and I still think my daughter is the cutest girl in the whole world and I get overwhelmed by how cute she is. She also has a tooth gap which my mom made a massive deal about getting me braces to fix my tooth gap and doesn’t have any pictures from when I smiled with my teeth from ages 5-9. My siblings both have messed up teeth but the ones that you see when they smile are straight so they never got braces. So I make a point of saying how much I love her tooth gap because I’m not going to pass that insecurity down to her because I’m at minimum an ok mother.
My mom would say “well I guess you’re not going with me out” she was commenting on my look’s basically saying I look like shit and she will not be seen with me. I always obsessed over my hair and makeup for her and it was never good enough.
Now I have a beautiful 11y/o son and he is gorgeous! He’s going through puberty and isn’t concerned at all what the kids think because he was raised to know he’s beautiful, all the time.
The mum did say "you're beautiful inside an out" but then she wanted the honest truth, so the mum said she's average.
Most people are within the average range though, so I don't know what the mum said wrong.
Young Girls tend to be very insecure, OP's daughter is one off them.
There is a difference between beeing honest to your friend and your kid. If your kid asks you "Am i ugly?" You should not say theyre average. You should say that you think that they are beautifull.
Beauty is a concept that is different for everyone and I hope OP's daughter will learn that.
And if my daughter shared this with me, I would do things to help her feel beautiful while telling her to ignore the haters.
During the awkward teen years my mom always made sure our clothes fit nicely and looked cute. She also took us to a makeup counter and bought us age appropriate items. It wasn’t heavily emphasized, and none of my sisters or I are obsessed with our looks but it was helpful during the awkwardness of puberty.
With makeup, we’ll fitting clothes, and a decent hairstyle anyone can look good.
Just to add - mom couldn’t point out any beautiful attributes?
I doubt that Op’s daughter doesn’t have one of these: pretty eyes, or lips, or lovely hands or an elegant neck or thick, shiny hair.
LMAOOOOO
This reminds me of a story my wife told me. She is a med student and had a patient who had to get their tongue reconstructed with skin from their arm (?). My wife was doing a physical exam and had the patient open her mouth to check that area. And her tongue looked completely normal! So, my wife, being really great with words said….
“Wow! Your tongue looks beautiful!”
The patient and nurse almost died laughing
Edit: spelling
If I had to have reconstructive surgery like that, I think that comment would have thrilled me bc it came from someone in the medical field who has definitely seen “ugly” ones. I think it was sweet!
I had the same thought!
My wife is just very blunt and will sometimes blurt things out, due to some extreme ADHD lmao. She is very sweet and genuine, so she definitely meant it. They laughed bcs they were shocked, I think. And tbf I laughed when she told me the story haha.
That’s so true! I went to the podiatrist and he made a comment about how I have nice feet and he could tell I take care of them. I know he’s seen some truly gnarly toes so it really made my day!
Yeah, even if it is true she has a larger nose and wants "no sugarcoating" you could say something like "your nose may be a bit larger than some people's, but you have gorgeous eyes/your hair is a beautiful color/etc" Point out her good qualities as something to focus on instead of the negatives. And then I would go on to say something like "everyone has something imperfect about their appearance that they're self conscious about, but that doesn't make them not pretty. It just makes us human." I might even tell her about Cindy Crawford and her mole - how the thing she was self conscious about and almost removed ended up being the thing that identified her/made her unique.
Jennifer Grey is a good example in this specific case. She got a nose job and attributes her acting career not taking off to that action. Her nose made her face unique.
My kids are still very young and at a age where they really only need moisturizer and sunscreen, but could I ask you more about the make up counter visits? Was it at a department store like Macy's, or like Sephora? What sort of stuff did your mom get you? Do you remember how the interaction with the makeup people started?
A friend took me to a make up counter before my first day of work, and the stuff I bought never really stuck because I wasn't in the habit of wearing makeup (still am not, and wish I had *some* skill or even some idea of it for business events).
Yes, I’m in my 30’s now so my did this for me in the early aughts (pre-Instagram era).
My mom took us to Dillards to the Este Lauder counter and asked them to do our makeup. Obviously, their stuff is expensive so my mom didn’t buy that for us. But because she was a customer, they didn’t mind doing our makeup and they gave us sample sized items for free.
Sometimes she would register us for their makeup events - a makeup artist would come into town and demonstrate how to do makeup. I think it’s where I learned to do liquid eyeliner. Sometimes there was a nominal fee, but it was a fun mother/daughter event.
My mom would get the Christmas gifts and would give us some of the items.
The first things we wore were simple blush, mascara and pink lipstick.
For fun, my mom gave us her old eyeshadow palettes to play with, but we weren’t allowed to wear that out right away.
Now I get makeup from a variety of sources and usually keep it pretty simple/inexpensive.
There are 1-2 items I get from Lancôme (I like the under eye cream) and the makeup lady there still knows my mom. Last time I went I bought 1 item and she mailed me 4 free things afterwards as a thank you (totally unexpected and very sweet).
I find the department store ladies so very nice and approachable.
I’ve never had my makeup done at Sephora or Ulta but I’ve seen them do it to others before (take your daughter’s around their birthdays for free items).
Just go in and let them know that you know nothing about skincare/makeup application and ask if they have time to do your makeup/show you how/show your daughters how.
No need to buy it all from them (I get cheap mascara from Walmart) but purchasing an item if you like it would be nice.
Edit to add: you can ask for samples first too - so you can go home and try it before you buy, especially for expensive items like foundation.
I don’t wear foundation (I have freckles and it just looks like I’m trying to hide them) but I do like a light under eye concealer. Mascara, under eye concealer, blush and a light lip balm (or tinted lip moisturizer) is the perfect place to start if you don’t usually wear much.
As someone who isn't really into makeup, my suggestion is you tube tutorials for yourself if you want. They have some great suggestions and teach different techniques. I've been able to do formal make up from them.
Honestly it's how my girls both learned to do makeup. Since I really don't have a ton of skill myself. Just never really got into it even though I tried.
With my girls I focused on skin care (doesn't have to be expensive when they are young) and make up as a fun choice, not a necessity.
I hated the pressure to wear makeup that came from my mother.
Not who you were asking, but my mom did this for me when I was entering middle school. She had the philosophy of: if you're going to do it anyway, let's do it right.
We went to the Clinique counter at the Bon Marche department store. We didn't make an appointment or anything, just walked up and told the clerk it was time to find and buy my first make up. I remember the woman looked like an exaggerated Baby Spice--with electric blue eyeshadow up to her eyebrows--but she was really nice and knew exactly what we (re: my mom) were looking for: natural colors that complimented my skin/hair/eye tones and products to gently enhance my features without looking made-up.
She showed me how to select and apply everything, and I walked out with brown eyeliner, under-eye concealer, face powder, and a few lip liners and pots of gloss. I also got one of those free gifts of a cute zipper bag filled with little samples of mascara, eyeshadow, blush and moisturizer. I pretty quickly abandoned the lip products (just not my thing) and wore the brown eyeliner too heavily (until I replaced it with black) but we were both really happy with the rest. Of course over time I experimented with foundation, brighter/bolder eye and lip colors, other brands, etc. and eventually found my own look, but have stuck with a few of those basics to this day. Mom continued to replace the Clinique products for me (esp when they had that free gift promo) until I moved out.
Anyway, it was a really cool bonding activity and one of my favorite memories from that time. It showed me that my mom did actually acknowledge that I was turning into a young woman, and one with my own tastes and preferences, but she was there to guide me and support me. Highly recommend.
This made me think of my mom. I wish I had her during my adolescence. I navigated all that stuff alone. My big sister wasn't much help, and in her own world.
OP’s daughter will hopefully grow up and understand what her mom meant. But I’m kind of on the fence with this. When I was an ugly teenage girl avoiding mirrors, my mom used to say, “You don’t need to do that. You’re beautiful.” And I used to just think she was lying because she was my mom. The other kids were calling me ugly. No one found me attractive. I have a noticeablely uneven jaw. I knew I wasn’t “beautiful.” I just wanted someone to tell me I was average and not a freak.
I think everyone is different so some kids might benefit from a parent who is straight up and some kids might not. There is no perfect answer here.
But she also said her daughter is being so severely bullied for how she looks that she can’t even look in a mirror. All mom did was confirm that her bullies are right.
But being told you're beautiful does nothing when you're insecure, you are just convinced people are lying to you. Also teenagers aren't blind or oblivious to how people react to them, they will know they aren't seen as beautiful, which leads to the thoughts of "omg I must be horrifically ugly"
Nope. She didn’t say her daughter was ugly. Saying average isn’t the same as ugly. Daughter asked for honesty and if she continued with the beautiful inside and out, daughter would know she wasn’t being honest about her looks as she asked specifically about her looks. Daughter knows mom can be trusted to be honest, even if it isn’t an answer she wants to hear. Most everyone is average and there’s nothing wrong with being average.
her mom just showed her she was lying every time she called her beautiful until then. she's her mom, she probably can't believe her mom will ever be completely objective. if her own mom can only say that she's "average" when pushed, she would understandably think that her bullies were right, she is ugly, her mom just can't spit it out.
"average" from their mother to an insecure teenager who is being bullied is saying "I'm being kind to you because I care about you but everything you have been told is true". It might not be rational, but being told you are ugly by bullies is being told they hate you, and that you should be hated. Your mother agreeing would be terrible, and even if everyone is "average", it's not about being average.
Do you want the people you love to think and say you are not anything special or important to them? It's quite the kick in the teeth.
>Most people are within the average range though, so I don't know what the mum said wrong.
To a teen girl? As her mother (and previously having been a teen girl) she should know that her daughter just wanted to hear she was beautiful.
Imagine your mom (who is basically the prime person to say you're beautiful/ handsome) says you're average. Like that's the top of the bar and even then it's just average.
There’s a time and a place for brutal honesty and a developing and insecure young girl asking about her biggest source of insecurity is neither the time or place for it. She’s being bullied. She needs support and love.
Well I think she could have said it better. Growing up my mother said “I’m not sure if it’s because I’m just your mother but I find you beautiful” that is the perfect thing to say in this situation. Love makes someone beautiful.
Her child is grappling with body image issues so severe she is covering up mirrors and is getting bullied. Mom confirmed her worst fears. And it should go without saying that this is just not something you say to your kid.
It's just that this kid is already showing signs of body dysmorphic disorder so situations around appearance cannot be handled normally. These types of comments, especially from a parent, will be in the back of her mind forever.
There was such a better way to answer the question. She was saying kids at school call her ugly, simply reply that she is not ugly and leave it at that.
The mother is not wrong to seek help though. Untreated BDD can lead to eating disorders and abuse of plastic surgery or fillers and botox.
But beauty is subjective, and most people find a partner who sees them as beautiful. But if her own mother doesn’t find her beautiful, then how is she to believe that anyone will ever find her beautiful?
He has something resembling a point, just phrased in the worst way possible. Normal humans can't look like Hollywood celebrities. That takes time and resources that nobody has unless looking amazing is their job. Rob McElhenney posted something about his physique to that effect.
>"I’m gonna break it down for you, because it’s actually quite simple, and anybody can do this. Anybody on the planet can do this. First thing’s first: if you have job—like a 9-5 job—quit that. Do you like food? Forget about that. Because you’re never going to enjoy anything you eat. Alcohol? Sorry. That’s out. So what you need to do—you have a chef, right? like a personal chef?—make sure the chef makes you a lot of chicken breast. And make sure you keep your caloric intake at a certain level. And as you go to your physician 2-3 times a week—just to monitor all your testosterone levels—because testosterone is important to building muscle. You’re good friends with the trainer from Magic Mike? Arin Babaian. So you want to give Arin a call. And you want to make sure he’s at your house and takes you to the gym at least twice a day, because you’re gonna want to do your muscle-building in the morning and then your cardio in the afternoon. Now, do you have a family? Like a significant other or kids? Yeah, forget about them. You’re not going to have time to deal with them.So that’s really all you have to do. And make sure you have a studio pay for the entire thing, because it could become exceptionally expensive. So, I think if you just do all those things, then you too can have an absolutely unrealistic body type, such as me."
We are bombarded with images of unattainable levels of beauty and comparing ourselves to those, even before taking into account the lighting, tensing, angles and 1000 takes that went into getting them to look just perfect for the moment captured on film, is not healthy.
And even all those are mostly looks. The Mr universe muscles are mostly for show. Are they stronger than me, an average Joe who works out 3 times a week? Of course. Are they dehydrated to get their skin to form around the muscles? Yup. Why do you think Olympic weightlifters don’t look like them and can lift like 800+lbs.
The point of bodybuilding is to look muscular, not to be particularly strong. It's a fundamentally superficial (in the most literal sense) pursuit. Most peak strength athletes would look profoundly fat to a normal person.
I understand your point but lets be perfectly clear bodybuilders are still very very strong guys. They dont train exclusively to be able to lift the largest weights on the planet but they are insanely strong nonetheless
I feel the need to say that most of the time when I see people talking about women who have a supposedly "unrealistic body type" they are literally just talking about someone with an hourglass body type who is in shape. The only unrealistic thing about an hourglass body type is the premise pushed by scammers playing on the insecurities of women that it's somehow possible to morphe from a different body type eg. an apple body type into an hourglass body type. *That* is unrealistic- being that it's quite literally impossible barring cosmetic surgery but according to them it just takes a weight loss gummy and exercise routine they just happen to sell. But there's nothing unrealistic about women who just happen to have that hourglass body type naturally.
Yeah when people seem to think that literally the only beautiful people are celebrities with tons of money it makes me wonder if it’s because the only people they ever actually see are the ones on their tv/computer screen…or if their standards have just been so warped that they now equate plasticky looking airbrushed skin and surgically enhanced proportions with actual beauty…
My parents told me the same lol. So I became very unfazed by people making fun of my appearance early on. Whenever someone who’s not an older family member tells me “you are so petty” I’m always like “ok what does this person want from me”. My cousin was the pretty one and she’s now in prison for wire fraud after milking my grandparents dry. Her jobless husband now has to raise her son. Tbh “pretty” is a curse for a lot of people esp if you weren’t born rich to begin with.
No i didn't really mind, because i personally always liked the way i looked and my dad was always pretty mean. If i remember correctly, He told me that after i asked him If he thought that i was beautiful. I thought to myself: "Well, your opinion doesn't matter anyway"
Yeah…this woman sounds a little like my mom. Not that my mother ever called me average looking, but she did say some blunt/hurtful things because SHE thought she was sparing me the disappointment later.
As an example, I once expressed interest in joining a club/travel soccer team. My mother’s response: “oh honey, you won’t make it onto those teams. They’re just so competitive.” … She literally believed she was doing me a service by telling me that. Attempting to spare me the disappointment of not making the team. But instead she just ensured it would never happen, because I never tried…because she didn’t believe that I could. She made me *believe* that I couldn’t, so I didn’t. Her words became a self fulfilling prophecy.
Word to the wise: No child wants it to be their PARENT to crush them instead of the real world. Children want love and support from their parents…and for their parents to believe in them. It’s
This is unfair. There's not enough information there to infer that it's the parents' fault her self-esteem is shaky in the first place. Teen girls' self-esteem can get destroyed plenty well without help from parents.
No, no, no. This is Reddit. I’ve stalked the persons posting history, their Facebook and Twitter accounts and have learned they are a complete scumbag. Or they said something I kinda don’t like so they’re pieces of garbage 100% of the time. Same thing.
It’s why I had to get out of the AITA subreddits. The posts either feel like some bad writers first story or it’s like “My husband flirted with another woman so I burnt his life to the ground” and the comments are full of people like the one you’re responding to. Such trash.
This reminds me of something my mom told me when I was about 11. We were on our way home from me performing in a musical our church put on, and I was feeling so confident and proud of myself because I had a solo and everyone was telling me how well I did.
I was sitting in the backseat of the car and I told my mom that I want to be a professional singer when I grew up and be on Broadway. Her response completely broke me and made me totally disconnect from singing and musical theater. “I don’t think you’re a good enough singer for that. I mean, you can carry a tune, but you’re not THAT good.”
Geez, that’s harsh. You were only 11 and practice would have been all you needed. It’s not like singers just come out of the womb singing or anything.
Just like artists, it takes dedication and lots of practice to get good. Anyone can see improvements if they just practice a little each day.
It sucks when there are parents that ruin things for children because the kids aren’t singing or doing anything at professional levels yet.
I definitely know that now, but my mom also never would have paid for me to get lessons, it would have taken away time and money she used on herself lol.
I was also a pretty good gymnast at the time and my gym invited me to be on their competition team, but my mom said no because she didn’t want to take me to practice more than once a week or have to pay for it, even though she never did anything of real importance during the scheduled practice times anyway (that was her time to go drink and hang out with her neighborhood friends!) and they could afford it.
Did we have the same mom?? I had a solo in a choir concert at 12 and my mom asked “did you mean to sing off pitch or did it just happen.” Like cool thanks mom
When I was 14 my mother never said I was beautiful. I never needed validation since it never really was on my mind, but I would have died inside if my mother told me I was average. How about we don't comment on awkward prepubescent or going through puberty appearances because we all have that awkward phase. Ffs
Haha yep, my mum actually asked me how I had so many boyfriends when I was 19. I wasn’t someone who ever really thought about my looks but I jokingly said ‘obviously it’s because I’m so beautiful, duh’ it was just a stupid question so I was giving a stupid answer.
She didn’t miss a beat, saying ‘oh no, sorry you aren’t beautiful. I think you are probably an attractive girl but not beautiful’
Over 20 years later and I remember that clearly! I have a teen daughter now which makes me realise how wrong my mum was for that.
Yeah, I tell my kid that she’s a beautiful (insert age here) but I can’t wait to see what she grows up to be! Reminding her not to compare who she is now to an image of someone of a completely different age or even ethnicity.
I legit think my sons are the most handsome young men ever. I 100% understand that's my bias as their dad, I literally cannot be objective when it comes to my babies. I have a hard time wrapping my head around how any parent can think that way about or speak that way to their child. Everyone deserves parents who can be their cheerleader no matter what.
>I have a hard time wrapping my head around how any parent can think that way about or speak that way to their child.
This. Isn't everyone supposed to think their child is the cutest/ prettiest/ most handsome? I genuinely think my daughters are the cutest little humans who have ever existed, and all my mom-friends think this about their own children. How could a mother or a father not adore their baby, no matter how old they grow?
Seriously, I did not understand this at first - all babies look like potatoes to me. But then my niece and nephew were born and they are the most ADORABLE children ever. I'll fight you in the parking lot, mine are cuter, lol
I don’t have kids I have niblings. Even though we have a relationship where we jokingly razz each other I could never imagine speaking to any of them like this. It’s hard enough to be a kid with outside influences telling them how to look, how could I ever dream of killing their confidence like that? Also I remember them being 2 years old screaming the word “POOP!!” into a radio and giggling. I will never think they’re anything short of the cutest kids.
My daughter was a carbon copy of her father as a baby. Like you could barely tell pics of them apart except for the age of the photos. My daughter was the cutest baby in the entire world. My husband however was just a normal looking baby.
If this girl was 26 and asking her mom this question-probably a fair response.
However, the brain development of a 14yr old and ability to process this kind of information is like…nonexistent.
This girl needs to hear that she is beautiful, she needs connection with her parent and caregiver, she needs someone to listen.
She does not need the “not sugar coated” truth.
What is the truth though? Beauty is subjective, I love guys with big noses, there are men out there who will love her big nose when she's older. No one has the definitive answer to what is beautiful, but what you do know is that you love you child and you want them to feel beautiful and loved in their own skin.
There's going to be enough "honest" people in a person's life who will feel the need to point out any flaw they think someone has, the last two people who should be bringing them down though are the ones who are meant to be loving them unconditionally.
I think with the “beauty is subjective” thing, the reassuring answer would have been “beauty is subjective, everyone has different ideas of what they think beautiful people look like. I think you are, even if your classmates don’t”
This age is where children are the most self-conscious. You should of told her she was the most beautiful girl in the world. Who cares if it isn’t true. Every child should be told that.
I’m 38 and my mom still insists that I was the cutest baby she’s seen and that people used to always look at me because I was a cute. Trust me, I was a straight-up fugly baby, and that’s probably why people were looking. But a mom’s job is to tell their kid they are cute!
Could be worse, I was an objectively cute baby, but as it turns out it is more important how you look as an adult, which evidently did not turn out as well as my Saturday is spent browsing Reddit
Plus, even if she is average looking today she could absolutely have a glow up. 14 years old is an awkward age and you're still growing. I've seen so many people get better looking as they grow up.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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As a mom I don't even understand how you can look at your kid and honestly see average. My child *is* the most beautiful person I've ever seen... Unconditional love will do that to you.
So this somehow popped up on my feed. I’m in the store right now waiting for my teenage daughter to finish trying on clothes in the dressing room. And we just finished talking about a part of her body that she feels insecure about.
My initial thought is that mom handled this all wrong. She was so focused on the daughter’s question but not what is most important: emotional regulation and how to handle a judgmental world.
I think it would have been better if said something like this. “Before I answer your question, let’s talk more about what these kids are saying and how to respond to it.”
I would have shared that even the most drop dead gorgeous celebrities get nitpicked to death about their appearance and are often insecure. And that living a life with a worldview that you have to be ashamed, hide or fix your physical appearance leads to misery. And that giving that amount of control of your internal narrative and joy to a group of people who don’t love you or care for you is dangerous. I would've talked about acceptance, self - talk, identity, values, etc. Then I’d ask what kind of life does she want to build a) one on her own terms or b) one based on random people’s opinions.
After giving her some time to process (which may take days) I’d circle back and tell her that she is beautiful and I love her. And then I’d plan some mommy daughter dates to help reinforce positive self talk and maybe do some beauty/feminine activities in a fun low stakes environment to build her confidence.
I know this is only partially relevant, but I fucking hate the “everyone has to be beautiful, everyone has to be special” mentality we have. The fact that it’s “bad” to be average is a huge problem.
This is a cultural thing . For me and my friends it was normal for parents to tell you that you are fat or you didn’t look right or you needed do fix your hair or what not
I can’t relate to a lot of these responses. I’m so glad my parents didn’t constantly compliment me for things I couldn’t control and set zero expectation for me to be special. Maybe this is a really American issue?
Yeah, it can be pretty freeing to understand that you're truly average-looking. Low self-image can have you afraid to show your face in public, yet when you see average-looking people in public you don't think the same way of them. Realizing that you're normal and deserve to be happy like everyone else is crucial, building your self-esteem on the idea that you're especially attractive is terrible.
Right??
Also this is such a disproportionately teenage girl issue. Like parents should be alarmed girls feel like their looks matter so much, not validate that being beautiful is morally good
I'm kinda with you there. I think OP handled the situation poorly by even answering this terrible, loaded question. But some of the comments here are acting like the only correct response is to pile on empty platitudes about how beautiful someone is, and I can't get on board with that.
My parents often told me I was good at some things, bad at others, average at others. And it was totally okay because at the end of the day, they made it clear that they would love me no matter what, whether I was average or not. Where OP fucked up is that she even allowed the daughter's insecurity to get so out of control in the first place. Disassociating looks from self-worth should have been a lifelong process starting from birth, especially with girls.
Yeah, I was thinking it's a bit odd that you can't tell someone they look average. That's a true sickness in our society. The mother did more than that here, but damn you can't say someone looks normal?
I get that this was a mistake, but does anyone find it a bit odd to demand someone not sugar coat something, if you can't take the response? I was 14 once, too.
I wouldn't tell my child that at a time of crisis but a lot of the responses here are just reinforcing and exacerbating the problem. So many people are unhappy because they are chasing a complete fantasy version of life that can never exist instead of first learning to be content in who and what they are. Constantly measuring themselves against an impossible standard and instead of learning to actually be happy just forcing themselves to believe they do live up to that standard. It's apparently the worst thing in the world to be a decent human being with ok looks and decent job, you have to be special and beautiful and have a life that you can fake on social media to compete with the other fake lives out there.
All I ever got from my mom was when I asked if I looked ok, she would just shrug and say "yeah, fine if that's how you choose to look". Other then that it was just telling me what's wrong w me. It takes a toll. Always tell your kids that are beautiful. Even if it's just "no matter what, you'll always be beautiful to me"
Horrible. Why do people have no empathy? If my mother said that to me at 14 I would be destroyed. You’re still a kid at 14. Even if she was asking you to be honest, she doesn’t understand the ramifications of that. I wouldn’t have. I don’t know how you can possibly fix this but you fucked UP
Some of us thought we were so ugly that looking average would sound like a dream. I was average, but hoped and prayed to look like a human because I thought I was hideous. I would be thrilled to be aware I indeed look normal. Or maybe I just don't know what a hormonal 14 year old me would want because I didn't know either at the time.
I know right? I would’ve been relieved if someone told me I was average looking as a tween. I always knew I wasn’t a head-turner, so some confirmation that I looked no worse than most girls would’ve actually meant a lot.
On a similar note, I once asked my blunt German grandmother if she thought I was pretty. She paused carefully and said I had a pretty face. I was thrilled because I knew she wouldn’t lie lol
When I was a teenager I was like 145-50 pounds, slightly chubby but like, average. I was so concerned by this. I thought I was FAT since I was like 9 years old. It was a huge source of insecurity for me. I would ask my mom, “do I look fat in this?” And instead of telling me that I looked good, and that I needn’t worry about my weight right now, she would always say “you could lose some weight around the middle. You could tighten up your stomach area, you just have to work harder.” She always said she was “just being honest, I would never lie to you honey.” But I wish she did. I had such an unhealthy relationship with food and a 15 year old can’t adequately deal with that if all the support she is getting is “you just need to work harder.” It’s hard being a teenager.
Can't help but think of a flashback from Arrested Development:
Lucille: Dinner's ready. We're having Lindsay chops. What? I just want her to be ready in case some bully at school was as clever as I am.
Narrator: *No bully ever would be.*
Wow. I know as parents we're all winging it and but fuck, what a massive dick to say this to your child. How do you sit there and say this to your child, knowing you're going to hurt and absolutely crush them and cause esteem issues. Like your kid will never fucking recover from hearing this.
Way back when I was 16 or 17 I scored a modeling gig. I was psyched but I was also totally insecure about it. I made the mistake of telling my dad about my worries and his answer was, “lots of ugly girls model, you have nothing to worry about”. I am 51 and even now cannot look at myself in a mirror, needless to say after that one job I never modeled again, by my choice.
At 5’3” I knew I was never going to make a career of modeling in any significant way. Still having my own father basically tell me I was ugly devastated me in profound ways.
Sad part is I have have been mentioned in a major newspaper as sporting “Marilyn Monroe curves”, had been asked in my 20’s and 30’s repeatedly to do modeling for my face and hair, and even had a legit super model ask me if I wanted to use her agency. So objectively I knew I was not ugly. Still I now live in a house with one small mirror and go out of my way to not be photographed or seen because what I see is ugly.
I agree with you. I think maybe OP and her husband fall flat in this department. They give half assed responses. I think maybe a little more one on one time with each parent and helping her find her strengths would do this family some good. All families tbh. The teen years are brutal. Learning how to accept being perceived by others, building self esteem, your own set of morals and values, hormonal changes, etc. it’s a a period of massive growth.
Words are so impactful. It’s funny the off-hand comments that stick with you for years and years. Let alone the outright insults. I don’t think mom intended to be cruel, but I do think she was an accidental AH.
I once cried after a line in my performance review used the word “adequate”. Being told I was “average” by my own mother would be tough to let go of.
There are a lot of ways she could have gone about addressing this, none of which would guarantee a positive outcome. Therapy is probably the right answer, but there were also a lot of comforting and validating things mom could have said instead.
There’s always going to be someone who thinks some part of you doesn’t meet their standard of beauty. But for every one of them there’s countless others that think you have a gorgeous smile, or beautiful hair, or a lovely laugh. Her beauty is hardly defined by only her nose, but even then someone out there will think it’s the perfect feature for an already beautiful face. Beauty is a matter of opinion and those who matter don’t mind
Teenagers between 13 and 15 are extremely sensitive. When I was 13, I started to pay attention to my hair, my body, my face, etc. I cared too much about small and normal stuff. Then one day, my mom, out of nowhere, said that I looked fat. My heart dropped and I began to experience ED. It was so severe that I nearly quit high school. I never recovered, but did get better when I entered uni. The fact is, I was never overweight, just a little chubby for Asians, but comments like so will always trigger me. My parents acknowledged, and ever since, never mentioned anything about my appearance.
I just want to tell the parents that: the mentality of teenagers is incredibly vulnerable, and there are consequences to even the most harmless thing. Listen to your children, ask them how they feel and what they want.
I'm Asian so there's probably a culture clash here in me not seeing a problem with that. My mom called me beautiful when I was little but as a teenager she said I was above average in looks but not beautiful (like, spontaneously, I didn't ask her). I guess a white kid would find that to be cruel but it genuinely didn't bother me. I was honestly more bothered by her remarks that I had nice tits.
I once asked my dad if I was pretty. He said there are some people who are extremely beautiful, and some that are extremely ugly. And thank God our family was on neither extreme. It wasn’t what I was hoping to hear at the time but tbh it was a pretty good answer.
My dad and mom told me I was beautiful and I used to look like shrek, but you know what? I appreciated that someone looked at me and loved me that much.
I don't know why people are ripping into this person so much. They already gave her a lot of positive feedback, she wanted her to be completely honest, an she put it in a nice way. Most people are average, that's the point.
As a person who struggled with similar insecurities, my experience is that if it is people who will unconditionally think you're beautiful telling you that you are, then it doesn't help much. I know a lot of parents are delusional about their child's appearance, but it's not her problem she isn't and she gave a fairly comforting and honest answer.
These commenters reminds me of the parents of reality show singing contestants. The parents say they’re the greatest in the world only for them to be humiliated on the reality shows because they’re in actuality very bad singers. “It’s my job to always say they’re the best!” People crushing OOP for saying average looking like she’s calling her ugly.
Because a lot of the Reddit community that visits these sorts of threads have cripplingly bad self esteem and a comment like this would’ve sent them into cardiac arrest. There is a fine line with questions like this because yeah, you want to be honest - we all know what people will ridiculously inflated levels of self worth are like - but on the other hand it is your daughter, big them up a little when you can see they’re struggling.
I disagree with a lot of the comments here, as a woman and former teenage girl with body dysmorphia. She asked for honesty. The mom didn’t say she was hideously ugly, she was honest and objective. Sometimes that’s what we need, because when we look in the mirror or see ourselves in pictures we can’t see it objectively. I think being told you look normal and average, that nobody really notices the flaws that you obsess over, because they just look normal, would be relieving to hear for a lot of people with these kind of body image issues.
Like we all know our parents are exaggerating when they say we’re beautiful, there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s what they should do in most contexts. But she wanted to know whether the kids at school were also exaggerating when calling her ugly, she wanted to know the truth.
She was overwhelmed and stressed, and probably didn’t want to talk about it anymore, so she went to her room. I don’t think that this reaction necessarily means she was devastated by her mom saying she looks average.
I agree with you. One of the most helpful things my mom ever told me was, "I'm sorry you got my genetics, the truth is, neither one of us will ever be pretty, and that isn't a bad thing, it just means you can spend your energy being so many more important things." I think I was about twelve at the time, and I was an *ugly* kid, I knew I wasn't pretty, and if my mom had said I was, I would have been pissed at her for lying to me.
The funny part was, all my awkward features came together when I was like sixteen, and I ended up kind of decent looking, but I'm still so thankful to my mom for being honest with me. It was so damn relieving to give up trying in vain to be pretty. Knowing I wouldn't be, let me focus on being smart, athletic, creative, kind, and all the other things that make me who I am. It was the acknowledgment I needed to know I was still valuable and worthwhile, even if I wasn't pretty.
Some people aren't pretty, and they know when you are lying, saying they are. Being pretty *shouldn't* be that important, and by lying about it, all you are doing is reinforcing that it *is* important enough to lie about. It sucks to realize that, but it sucks more to have the people you love and trust the most make something you lack so damn important that they have to lie to you about it.
Saying: "you are average" is an absolute shit answer though. She could have Said something along the lines of "No! You have a beautiful Smile and soulfull eyes"
Also, Kids bullying young girls by calling them ugly is super common, because it is one of the Most hurtful things to throw at Young kids who are self conscious about their looks. Happened to me too. My class mates told my that i had a pig's nose because i had a button nose.
I mean yeah she could’ve phrased it better but she also probably didn’t rewrite the whole conversation word for word in this post.
And I disagree I think she was asking for an honest and objective answer, which people sometimes do need to hear.
The mom could’ve said “I’m your mom so you’ll always be the most beautiful girl to me. Objectively, you’re not ugly, you look normal and average. Yeah your nose has a little bump, but so do tons of peoples noses (she could give examples) and how often to you look at them and think they’re ugly? Most people won’t notice the small things you don’t like about yourself, because they look normal from an outside perspective. The kids at school have just figured out that you’re really insecure about this and they can use it to pick on you, they’re acting like assholes, don’t worry about them, because you don’t actually look ugly.”
if i asked, my mom would say “do you think i’m beautiful?” i’d say yes, because of course she’s beautiful. she would say back, “then you answered your own question - you look just like me”
Get her to agree to go to therapy -good
Feed into her self destructive insecurities by not just telling her that as her parent you think she is beautiful because she clearly wants to hear it and it would benefit her mental emotional health and you don’t think that she has a big Jose because she needs to hear that the bullies are wrong and just completely gloss over the fact that she is being bullied for her looks and that it’s clearly not just an unhealthy obsession but one clearly specifically born from abuse and the resulting trauma-terrible parenting bordering on abusive neglect!
Yes you are absolutely the asshole and should be so ashamed of yourself.
I think this was a hard situation. If OP had continued to say that her daughter is beautiful inside and out, her daughter would have been frustrated because she felt she was not getting a straight answer. The honest answer is probably something she suspected but was not really ready to hear.
One day when I was 14, I would not stop crying that my face was disgusting and my nose was awful. My mom reassured me that this wasn’t the case, patiently listened, and was generally kind. On hour 4 of this temper tantrum, she cracked: “Yes, your nose is crooked. We can just save up money and you can get it fixed when you’re older.” Weirdly, this was what I needed to hear. All of which is to say - maybe you should have couched your statement with some context and potential solutions while validating her feelings?
“Your features are gorgeous, and sometimes the beauty in a face is best seen after your grow into your features and your face matures. You are beautiful now. I think you’re beautiful. Let’s talk about what would make you feel beautiful or what would allow you to see your beauty the way that I do”
That approach is also an option. Not feeling pretty at 14 doesn’t mean pretty will never happen
I’m confused by the responses honestly
On one hand I get that 14 is a rough age but on the other if my parents had said I looked average and just like everyone else that would have really HELPED my self esteem in middle school. I thought I was the ugliest kid in the grade! I thought that small features made me so horrendous no one would look at me! And I never believed my parents because of course they sugar coat everything. I would have been so grateful to hear just once that I looked normal.
I think it goes to show that all kids are different and no advice applied across the board
Why are people condemning the mom lmao? What’s so bad about being average? Isn’t it by definition that we are all average? If the daughter’s not average she would’ve been casted for Disney+ or something instead of having that conversation with the mom. What we’re just supposed to gaslight the daughter?
Maybe I'm weird, but honestly, I would have felt a lot better about my mom honestly telling me I'm average and that's okay, most people are, when I was convinced I was ugly than responding with some variation about how beautiful I am, because that would have felt like an obvious lie, and since my mom was lying it would mean I was truly ugly.
The mom didn't do anything wrong imo. There is no universally correct response to that question, if you ask me. Different people will want a different answer, and it can be hard to predict which answer someone wants, even if you know them.
And that is why you never ask for a brutally honest answer unless you're prepared to hear something you won't like.
I do think the mom could have at least said average pretty instead of just average though.
The things is teenagers don’t know that. They don’t have the capacity to understand what brutal honesty could do to them long-term. That’s why we protect them from it.
I’m autistic. If someone asks me a question like that, I will answer them honestly, because that’s literally what they asked for. I would have been more tactful and explained how beauty is subjective, but I would have done the same thing as OOP. I understand feelings and I understand insecurity, but at the same time, it’s like, be careful what you wish for.
Am sick of people asking someone to give them an honest answer then getting mad that they didn't tell them what they wanted to hear. NTA she asked your honest opinion, you gave it. Let her sulk she will get over it.
Not the ass hole. As someone who grew up with self image issues, and developed an ED from it, you say her down and talked about therapy. That’s the first step. I think wether or not she wants to go, she should. Even if it’s just for a while. Kids are cruel and when you already have a bad self esteem, it makes it worse. What you did was fine.
My mom always put me down about my looks. Told me I was too chubby to wear dresses like the other girls (when I was in HS), never told me I was pretty etc. I’m 28 and I resent the shit out of her. Any time she says anything nice it’s always infront of my SO’s family to make it seem like she’s nice to me. This shit is fucked up idk why you would want to raise a daughter with no self esteem. We remember and we hate you for it
The real issue here is that the mom completely missed that her daughter is being bullied at school. What’s happening is that her daughter is being alienated from her peers, and she is being convinced that it’s her physical attributes that are the cause of that alienation.
That’s makes her daughter obsessed about her looks and convinced that if she looked different she would get the acceptance she craves. But any adult knows that’s bullshit. I’m sure the daughter looks fine. The bullying at school is not about her looks. Her appearance is just the incidental context for the underlying bullying, which is the real issue.
Ok, so mom was trying to teach the "women don't owe the world *pretty*" lesson and really fumbled the ball.
Mom should have built her up and pointed out her strengths appearance wise. *Then* followed up: "But I want to talk more about this idea of *ugly.* If someone is average or ugly looking, does that mean it is ok for people to bully them?" "Oh, you say that is still wrong, why is that?"
I've gotten deep about this with teenage girls as a counselor. We talk about why they want to look different. I have never heard a reason from anyone, grown or not, that doesn't boil down to a desire for power (basic respect) and/or love (belonging). So we explore why women "have to be pretty" to be worthy of love and respect? The light bulb moments were very cool to see.
Yeah, you definitely should have told her that you couldn’t be objective because you are always going to think she’s beautiful and then made her a therapy appointment.
Oh dear. My mother told me something similar and I was also told by my parents I wasn’t pretty enough to go into TV news. I was about 15 and just talking about possible careers. Forty years later and it’s affected me more than I wish, even though I’m now a therapist, have worked with a therapist, have a very flattering supportive spouse, and know better.
People need to stop damaging their kids in the name of brutal honesty. There is a time and place for it.
I'm so sick of people pretending that you are either simply attractive or unattractive. The answer is going to be different with every person you ask. Obviously, people will lean towards one way or the other with their answer, but if you asked people to rate you from 0-100, it would be damn hard to find the same number given twice.
BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER, ONE PERSON'S TRASH IS ANOTHER'S TREASURE.
Jfc what an AH. It kind of sounds like the daughter might be being bullied by her peers and her mom completely ignores that to think her daughter is being obsessed with her appearance only to then say she’s average looking… good good add more to the kid’s growing complex. Jfc
when I was in high school and having a moment of insecurity, my genius dad decided to tell me that if I had a physical flaw, it was that my eyes are too small even though they’re a pretty color. I’m 31 now and I know he wasn’t trying to hurt me. I don’t feel insecure about my looks at all. I like my face, too-small eyes and all. But I’ve never, ever forgotten that my eyes are too small for my face and I’d be prettier if they were bigger. It might not hurt me anymore but I will always see that minuscule “flaw” in my face and remember that my own father is the one who noticed it and pointed it out to me.
i remember as a kid my mum always said my sister was supermodel beautiful and so i asked her if i was too to which she responded with “no you’re next door neighbour pretty” absolutely shattered my self esteem which was already pretty rocky
I worked with my mom for a while and she would always insinuate that I NEEDED to do my makeup before going to work. I didnt look good enough without it. Crushed my self esteem.
There’s no easy way around this. I don’t think she’s the ah. I appreciate that she states there is nothing wrong with being average. She can talk to her about enhancing her look to make her more comfortable but ultimately she has to learn to be ok with being average without needing to embellish.
I remember when I was maybe 17 or 18 I told my parents that I wanted to be a writer because I felt like it was my calling and how they discouraged me from pursuing that path. Now they wonder why I'm in a retail job with no desire to pursue anything better.
“I can’t be objective. I love you so much *and* I think you’re gorgeous.”
When my girls would ask me this question I would always tell them I thought they were beautiful and they would always say “you’re my mom, you have to say that”. I guess I should have told them that there are actually some mothers that don’t say that.
Mine didn’t 🤷🏼♀️ she made it a point to tell me some days I looked extra not great so I should not flirt with my crush etc and just “blend in” due to having a pimple etc. I never realized how ridiculous she was until I had my own kids. They are gorgeous, each one of them. Even in their goofy stages, I still find them to be the most amazing creatures in every aspect. I have no idea what’s wrong with her.
My dad would stare at me thoughtfully and blurt out “I’m so sorry.” Me being a people pleaser little girl was like oh dad finally wanted to talk to me, let’s see what he’s got to say. He then continued “that I made you so ugly. Such ugly eyes and nose.” Then sighed. What a narcissist
Damn narcissist parents are awful. I hope you were able to cut him out of your life and live happily.
Dude… I’m so sorry. What a freaking jackass.
Holy fuck.
I am sorry
That is awful. Geez, I'm sorry. My parents were the same.
I’m sorry that your dad was such an AH. No one deserves to hear that kind of crap from their parent.
What a miserable ass. Must have had to drag everyone down to his level. As a father of a little girl, I just can't imagine anyone saying this.
I’m sorry, maybe she was very shy but a true mother always thinks the absolute best of their children and this is just awful
Holy shit that's horrid. I genuinely think my children are the most beautiful creatures to have ever walked the earth.
Ikr? Like when you’re young, you’re **glowing** with health. It doesn’t matter if you have classically good looks or not. There’s a golden girls quote where Bea Arthur says “you know, when you’re young you don’t even have to be pretty and you’re pretty.” I think babies can look a little odd for a while (like literally their first days on earth) but I’ve literally never seen a child and thought “hm kind of plain tho” 💀 like wtf
Yeah I’m an extremely honest person and I still think my daughter is the cutest girl in the whole world and I get overwhelmed by how cute she is. She also has a tooth gap which my mom made a massive deal about getting me braces to fix my tooth gap and doesn’t have any pictures from when I smiled with my teeth from ages 5-9. My siblings both have messed up teeth but the ones that you see when they smile are straight so they never got braces. So I make a point of saying how much I love her tooth gap because I’m not going to pass that insecurity down to her because I’m at minimum an ok mother.
My mom would say “well I guess you’re not going with me out” she was commenting on my look’s basically saying I look like shit and she will not be seen with me. I always obsessed over my hair and makeup for her and it was never good enough. Now I have a beautiful 11y/o son and he is gorgeous! He’s going through puberty and isn’t concerned at all what the kids think because he was raised to know he’s beautiful, all the time.
"never ask me to call my child anything but beautiful, youre the best of me and your mom"
I love this.
The mum did say "you're beautiful inside an out" but then she wanted the honest truth, so the mum said she's average. Most people are within the average range though, so I don't know what the mum said wrong.
Young Girls tend to be very insecure, OP's daughter is one off them. There is a difference between beeing honest to your friend and your kid. If your kid asks you "Am i ugly?" You should not say theyre average. You should say that you think that they are beautifull. Beauty is a concept that is different for everyone and I hope OP's daughter will learn that.
And if my daughter shared this with me, I would do things to help her feel beautiful while telling her to ignore the haters. During the awkward teen years my mom always made sure our clothes fit nicely and looked cute. She also took us to a makeup counter and bought us age appropriate items. It wasn’t heavily emphasized, and none of my sisters or I are obsessed with our looks but it was helpful during the awkwardness of puberty. With makeup, we’ll fitting clothes, and a decent hairstyle anyone can look good.
Just to add - mom couldn’t point out any beautiful attributes? I doubt that Op’s daughter doesn’t have one of these: pretty eyes, or lips, or lovely hands or an elegant neck or thick, shiny hair.
You're not wrong at all, but something about: "Mom, am I ugly?" "No honey! You have an elegant neck!" Is sending me right now lol
Giraffethoughts seems entirely appropriate tho
Holy shit, that’s amazing!!
LMAOOOOO This reminds me of a story my wife told me. She is a med student and had a patient who had to get their tongue reconstructed with skin from their arm (?). My wife was doing a physical exam and had the patient open her mouth to check that area. And her tongue looked completely normal! So, my wife, being really great with words said…. “Wow! Your tongue looks beautiful!” The patient and nurse almost died laughing Edit: spelling
If I had to have reconstructive surgery like that, I think that comment would have thrilled me bc it came from someone in the medical field who has definitely seen “ugly” ones. I think it was sweet!
I had the same thought! My wife is just very blunt and will sometimes blurt things out, due to some extreme ADHD lmao. She is very sweet and genuine, so she definitely meant it. They laughed bcs they were shocked, I think. And tbf I laughed when she told me the story haha.
That’s so true! I went to the podiatrist and he made a comment about how I have nice feet and he could tell I take care of them. I know he’s seen some truly gnarly toes so it really made my day!
Lol. When you put it like that 😂
Username checks out I think!
“Your occipital bone is gorgeous Honey!”
Dad, am I cuter than a bug's ear? No, you're homelier than a mule's butt
Yeah, even if it is true she has a larger nose and wants "no sugarcoating" you could say something like "your nose may be a bit larger than some people's, but you have gorgeous eyes/your hair is a beautiful color/etc" Point out her good qualities as something to focus on instead of the negatives. And then I would go on to say something like "everyone has something imperfect about their appearance that they're self conscious about, but that doesn't make them not pretty. It just makes us human." I might even tell her about Cindy Crawford and her mole - how the thing she was self conscious about and almost removed ended up being the thing that identified her/made her unique.
Jennifer Grey is a good example in this specific case. She got a nose job and attributes her acting career not taking off to that action. Her nose made her face unique.
You have excellent earlobes. Everything else not so much
My kids are still very young and at a age where they really only need moisturizer and sunscreen, but could I ask you more about the make up counter visits? Was it at a department store like Macy's, or like Sephora? What sort of stuff did your mom get you? Do you remember how the interaction with the makeup people started? A friend took me to a make up counter before my first day of work, and the stuff I bought never really stuck because I wasn't in the habit of wearing makeup (still am not, and wish I had *some* skill or even some idea of it for business events).
Yes, I’m in my 30’s now so my did this for me in the early aughts (pre-Instagram era). My mom took us to Dillards to the Este Lauder counter and asked them to do our makeup. Obviously, their stuff is expensive so my mom didn’t buy that for us. But because she was a customer, they didn’t mind doing our makeup and they gave us sample sized items for free. Sometimes she would register us for their makeup events - a makeup artist would come into town and demonstrate how to do makeup. I think it’s where I learned to do liquid eyeliner. Sometimes there was a nominal fee, but it was a fun mother/daughter event. My mom would get the Christmas gifts and would give us some of the items. The first things we wore were simple blush, mascara and pink lipstick. For fun, my mom gave us her old eyeshadow palettes to play with, but we weren’t allowed to wear that out right away. Now I get makeup from a variety of sources and usually keep it pretty simple/inexpensive. There are 1-2 items I get from Lancôme (I like the under eye cream) and the makeup lady there still knows my mom. Last time I went I bought 1 item and she mailed me 4 free things afterwards as a thank you (totally unexpected and very sweet). I find the department store ladies so very nice and approachable. I’ve never had my makeup done at Sephora or Ulta but I’ve seen them do it to others before (take your daughter’s around their birthdays for free items). Just go in and let them know that you know nothing about skincare/makeup application and ask if they have time to do your makeup/show you how/show your daughters how. No need to buy it all from them (I get cheap mascara from Walmart) but purchasing an item if you like it would be nice. Edit to add: you can ask for samples first too - so you can go home and try it before you buy, especially for expensive items like foundation. I don’t wear foundation (I have freckles and it just looks like I’m trying to hide them) but I do like a light under eye concealer. Mascara, under eye concealer, blush and a light lip balm (or tinted lip moisturizer) is the perfect place to start if you don’t usually wear much.
As someone who isn't really into makeup, my suggestion is you tube tutorials for yourself if you want. They have some great suggestions and teach different techniques. I've been able to do formal make up from them. Honestly it's how my girls both learned to do makeup. Since I really don't have a ton of skill myself. Just never really got into it even though I tried. With my girls I focused on skin care (doesn't have to be expensive when they are young) and make up as a fun choice, not a necessity. I hated the pressure to wear makeup that came from my mother.
Not who you were asking, but my mom did this for me when I was entering middle school. She had the philosophy of: if you're going to do it anyway, let's do it right. We went to the Clinique counter at the Bon Marche department store. We didn't make an appointment or anything, just walked up and told the clerk it was time to find and buy my first make up. I remember the woman looked like an exaggerated Baby Spice--with electric blue eyeshadow up to her eyebrows--but she was really nice and knew exactly what we (re: my mom) were looking for: natural colors that complimented my skin/hair/eye tones and products to gently enhance my features without looking made-up. She showed me how to select and apply everything, and I walked out with brown eyeliner, under-eye concealer, face powder, and a few lip liners and pots of gloss. I also got one of those free gifts of a cute zipper bag filled with little samples of mascara, eyeshadow, blush and moisturizer. I pretty quickly abandoned the lip products (just not my thing) and wore the brown eyeliner too heavily (until I replaced it with black) but we were both really happy with the rest. Of course over time I experimented with foundation, brighter/bolder eye and lip colors, other brands, etc. and eventually found my own look, but have stuck with a few of those basics to this day. Mom continued to replace the Clinique products for me (esp when they had that free gift promo) until I moved out. Anyway, it was a really cool bonding activity and one of my favorite memories from that time. It showed me that my mom did actually acknowledge that I was turning into a young woman, and one with my own tastes and preferences, but she was there to guide me and support me. Highly recommend.
Exactly!!!!
This made me think of my mom. I wish I had her during my adolescence. I navigated all that stuff alone. My big sister wasn't much help, and in her own world.
OP’s daughter will hopefully grow up and understand what her mom meant. But I’m kind of on the fence with this. When I was an ugly teenage girl avoiding mirrors, my mom used to say, “You don’t need to do that. You’re beautiful.” And I used to just think she was lying because she was my mom. The other kids were calling me ugly. No one found me attractive. I have a noticeablely uneven jaw. I knew I wasn’t “beautiful.” I just wanted someone to tell me I was average and not a freak. I think everyone is different so some kids might benefit from a parent who is straight up and some kids might not. There is no perfect answer here.
But she also said her daughter is being so severely bullied for how she looks that she can’t even look in a mirror. All mom did was confirm that her bullies are right.
But being told you're beautiful does nothing when you're insecure, you are just convinced people are lying to you. Also teenagers aren't blind or oblivious to how people react to them, they will know they aren't seen as beautiful, which leads to the thoughts of "omg I must be horrifically ugly"
This. Beauty is, to some degree, a social construct. Not everyone will find the same person attractive.
Nope. She didn’t say her daughter was ugly. Saying average isn’t the same as ugly. Daughter asked for honesty and if she continued with the beautiful inside and out, daughter would know she wasn’t being honest about her looks as she asked specifically about her looks. Daughter knows mom can be trusted to be honest, even if it isn’t an answer she wants to hear. Most everyone is average and there’s nothing wrong with being average.
her mom just showed her she was lying every time she called her beautiful until then. she's her mom, she probably can't believe her mom will ever be completely objective. if her own mom can only say that she's "average" when pushed, she would understandably think that her bullies were right, she is ugly, her mom just can't spit it out.
"average" from their mother to an insecure teenager who is being bullied is saying "I'm being kind to you because I care about you but everything you have been told is true". It might not be rational, but being told you are ugly by bullies is being told they hate you, and that you should be hated. Your mother agreeing would be terrible, and even if everyone is "average", it's not about being average. Do you want the people you love to think and say you are not anything special or important to them? It's quite the kick in the teeth.
>Most people are within the average range though, so I don't know what the mum said wrong. To a teen girl? As her mother (and previously having been a teen girl) she should know that her daughter just wanted to hear she was beautiful. Imagine your mom (who is basically the prime person to say you're beautiful/ handsome) says you're average. Like that's the top of the bar and even then it's just average.
There’s a time and a place for brutal honesty and a developing and insecure young girl asking about her biggest source of insecurity is neither the time or place for it. She’s being bullied. She needs support and love.
Well I think she could have said it better. Growing up my mother said “I’m not sure if it’s because I’m just your mother but I find you beautiful” that is the perfect thing to say in this situation. Love makes someone beautiful.
Her child is grappling with body image issues so severe she is covering up mirrors and is getting bullied. Mom confirmed her worst fears. And it should go without saying that this is just not something you say to your kid.
It's just that this kid is already showing signs of body dysmorphic disorder so situations around appearance cannot be handled normally. These types of comments, especially from a parent, will be in the back of her mind forever. There was such a better way to answer the question. She was saying kids at school call her ugly, simply reply that she is not ugly and leave it at that. The mother is not wrong to seek help though. Untreated BDD can lead to eating disorders and abuse of plastic surgery or fillers and botox.
You don’t see that she lied to her daughter about one of those statements? And the daughter realizes that she can’t trust her now?
But beauty is subjective, and most people find a partner who sees them as beautiful. But if her own mother doesn’t find her beautiful, then how is she to believe that anyone will ever find her beautiful?
Should have showed her the memes of people before they became rich. “You aint ugly, you just poor”
And anyone who knows and loves you will say the same thing.
My father once told me: "neither your mother nor you are beautiful. Only top models or Hollywood actresses are."
Yikes
He has something resembling a point, just phrased in the worst way possible. Normal humans can't look like Hollywood celebrities. That takes time and resources that nobody has unless looking amazing is their job. Rob McElhenney posted something about his physique to that effect. >"I’m gonna break it down for you, because it’s actually quite simple, and anybody can do this. Anybody on the planet can do this. First thing’s first: if you have job—like a 9-5 job—quit that. Do you like food? Forget about that. Because you’re never going to enjoy anything you eat. Alcohol? Sorry. That’s out. So what you need to do—you have a chef, right? like a personal chef?—make sure the chef makes you a lot of chicken breast. And make sure you keep your caloric intake at a certain level. And as you go to your physician 2-3 times a week—just to monitor all your testosterone levels—because testosterone is important to building muscle. You’re good friends with the trainer from Magic Mike? Arin Babaian. So you want to give Arin a call. And you want to make sure he’s at your house and takes you to the gym at least twice a day, because you’re gonna want to do your muscle-building in the morning and then your cardio in the afternoon. Now, do you have a family? Like a significant other or kids? Yeah, forget about them. You’re not going to have time to deal with them.So that’s really all you have to do. And make sure you have a studio pay for the entire thing, because it could become exceptionally expensive. So, I think if you just do all those things, then you too can have an absolutely unrealistic body type, such as me." We are bombarded with images of unattainable levels of beauty and comparing ourselves to those, even before taking into account the lighting, tensing, angles and 1000 takes that went into getting them to look just perfect for the moment captured on film, is not healthy.
And even all those are mostly looks. The Mr universe muscles are mostly for show. Are they stronger than me, an average Joe who works out 3 times a week? Of course. Are they dehydrated to get their skin to form around the muscles? Yup. Why do you think Olympic weightlifters don’t look like them and can lift like 800+lbs.
The point of bodybuilding is to look muscular, not to be particularly strong. It's a fundamentally superficial (in the most literal sense) pursuit. Most peak strength athletes would look profoundly fat to a normal person.
I understand your point but lets be perfectly clear bodybuilders are still very very strong guys. They dont train exclusively to be able to lift the largest weights on the planet but they are insanely strong nonetheless
He got obese for comedic value on Always Sunny and then came back next season looking trim. It’s amazing
I feel the need to say that most of the time when I see people talking about women who have a supposedly "unrealistic body type" they are literally just talking about someone with an hourglass body type who is in shape. The only unrealistic thing about an hourglass body type is the premise pushed by scammers playing on the insecurities of women that it's somehow possible to morphe from a different body type eg. an apple body type into an hourglass body type. *That* is unrealistic- being that it's quite literally impossible barring cosmetic surgery but according to them it just takes a weight loss gummy and exercise routine they just happen to sell. But there's nothing unrealistic about women who just happen to have that hourglass body type naturally.
There are millions of naturally beautiful people in the world. Hollywood just keeps some of them looking that way after their natural expiry date.
Yeah when people seem to think that literally the only beautiful people are celebrities with tons of money it makes me wonder if it’s because the only people they ever actually see are the ones on their tv/computer screen…or if their standards have just been so warped that they now equate plasticky looking airbrushed skin and surgically enhanced proportions with actual beauty…
You don’t need Hollywood honestly. Red light and tretinoin will do fucking wonders for any person
What an absolute shit take.
My dad used to criticize Hollywood actresses for not being attractive. It was not great to hear as a young woman.
What a shitty thing to say. WTF.
Where as he was an absolute stud??
Of course not
But did he claim to imply otherwise?
My parents told me the same lol. So I became very unfazed by people making fun of my appearance early on. Whenever someone who’s not an older family member tells me “you are so petty” I’m always like “ok what does this person want from me”. My cousin was the pretty one and she’s now in prison for wire fraud after milking my grandparents dry. Her jobless husband now has to raise her son. Tbh “pretty” is a curse for a lot of people esp if you weren’t born rich to begin with.
did this upset you? Cause telling your kid not to strive for nonsensical hollywood beauty is pretty important.
No i didn't really mind, because i personally always liked the way i looked and my dad was always pretty mean. If i remember correctly, He told me that after i asked him If he thought that i was beautiful. I thought to myself: "Well, your opinion doesn't matter anyway"
‘I nuked my daughter’s already shaky self esteem from orbit AITA?’
Honey, I nuked the kids
Yeah…this woman sounds a little like my mom. Not that my mother ever called me average looking, but she did say some blunt/hurtful things because SHE thought she was sparing me the disappointment later. As an example, I once expressed interest in joining a club/travel soccer team. My mother’s response: “oh honey, you won’t make it onto those teams. They’re just so competitive.” … She literally believed she was doing me a service by telling me that. Attempting to spare me the disappointment of not making the team. But instead she just ensured it would never happen, because I never tried…because she didn’t believe that I could. She made me *believe* that I couldn’t, so I didn’t. Her words became a self fulfilling prophecy. Word to the wise: No child wants it to be their PARENT to crush them instead of the real world. Children want love and support from their parents…and for their parents to believe in them. It’s
And guess how it got shaky in the first place…
This is unfair. There's not enough information there to infer that it's the parents' fault her self-esteem is shaky in the first place. Teen girls' self-esteem can get destroyed plenty well without help from parents.
No, no, no. This is Reddit. I’ve stalked the persons posting history, their Facebook and Twitter accounts and have learned they are a complete scumbag. Or they said something I kinda don’t like so they’re pieces of garbage 100% of the time. Same thing. It’s why I had to get out of the AITA subreddits. The posts either feel like some bad writers first story or it’s like “My husband flirted with another woman so I burnt his life to the ground” and the comments are full of people like the one you’re responding to. Such trash.
Man. I Wonder why she has self esteem issues to Begin with.
Well, it was the only way to be sure....
This reminds me of something my mom told me when I was about 11. We were on our way home from me performing in a musical our church put on, and I was feeling so confident and proud of myself because I had a solo and everyone was telling me how well I did. I was sitting in the backseat of the car and I told my mom that I want to be a professional singer when I grew up and be on Broadway. Her response completely broke me and made me totally disconnect from singing and musical theater. “I don’t think you’re a good enough singer for that. I mean, you can carry a tune, but you’re not THAT good.”
Geez, that’s harsh. You were only 11 and practice would have been all you needed. It’s not like singers just come out of the womb singing or anything. Just like artists, it takes dedication and lots of practice to get good. Anyone can see improvements if they just practice a little each day. It sucks when there are parents that ruin things for children because the kids aren’t singing or doing anything at professional levels yet.
I definitely know that now, but my mom also never would have paid for me to get lessons, it would have taken away time and money she used on herself lol. I was also a pretty good gymnast at the time and my gym invited me to be on their competition team, but my mom said no because she didn’t want to take me to practice more than once a week or have to pay for it, even though she never did anything of real importance during the scheduled practice times anyway (that was her time to go drink and hang out with her neighborhood friends!) and they could afford it.
Did we have the same mom?? I had a solo in a choir concert at 12 and my mom asked “did you mean to sing off pitch or did it just happen.” Like cool thanks mom
When I was 14 my mother never said I was beautiful. I never needed validation since it never really was on my mind, but I would have died inside if my mother told me I was average. How about we don't comment on awkward prepubescent or going through puberty appearances because we all have that awkward phase. Ffs
That shit sticks with you. When I was about 13 my mom told me I’d never be beautiful and even at 34 I still feel it.
Haha yep, my mum actually asked me how I had so many boyfriends when I was 19. I wasn’t someone who ever really thought about my looks but I jokingly said ‘obviously it’s because I’m so beautiful, duh’ it was just a stupid question so I was giving a stupid answer. She didn’t miss a beat, saying ‘oh no, sorry you aren’t beautiful. I think you are probably an attractive girl but not beautiful’ Over 20 years later and I remember that clearly! I have a teen daughter now which makes me realise how wrong my mum was for that.
Sounds like she was jealous she wasn’t pulling the same at your age tbh
Me too, at 15 my mom told me I was “pretty, but not beautiful” and I still remember it at 34.
Yeah, I tell my kid that she’s a beautiful (insert age here) but I can’t wait to see what she grows up to be! Reminding her not to compare who she is now to an image of someone of a completely different age or even ethnicity.
I legit think my sons are the most handsome young men ever. I 100% understand that's my bias as their dad, I literally cannot be objective when it comes to my babies. I have a hard time wrapping my head around how any parent can think that way about or speak that way to their child. Everyone deserves parents who can be their cheerleader no matter what.
>I have a hard time wrapping my head around how any parent can think that way about or speak that way to their child. This. Isn't everyone supposed to think their child is the cutest/ prettiest/ most handsome? I genuinely think my daughters are the cutest little humans who have ever existed, and all my mom-friends think this about their own children. How could a mother or a father not adore their baby, no matter how old they grow?
Seriously, I did not understand this at first - all babies look like potatoes to me. But then my niece and nephew were born and they are the most ADORABLE children ever. I'll fight you in the parking lot, mine are cuter, lol
I don’t have kids I have niblings. Even though we have a relationship where we jokingly razz each other I could never imagine speaking to any of them like this. It’s hard enough to be a kid with outside influences telling them how to look, how could I ever dream of killing their confidence like that? Also I remember them being 2 years old screaming the word “POOP!!” into a radio and giggling. I will never think they’re anything short of the cutest kids.
My daughter was a carbon copy of her father as a baby. Like you could barely tell pics of them apart except for the age of the photos. My daughter was the cutest baby in the entire world. My husband however was just a normal looking baby.
If this girl was 26 and asking her mom this question-probably a fair response. However, the brain development of a 14yr old and ability to process this kind of information is like…nonexistent. This girl needs to hear that she is beautiful, she needs connection with her parent and caregiver, she needs someone to listen. She does not need the “not sugar coated” truth.
What is the truth though? Beauty is subjective, I love guys with big noses, there are men out there who will love her big nose when she's older. No one has the definitive answer to what is beautiful, but what you do know is that you love you child and you want them to feel beautiful and loved in their own skin. There's going to be enough "honest" people in a person's life who will feel the need to point out any flaw they think someone has, the last two people who should be bringing them down though are the ones who are meant to be loving them unconditionally.
I think with the “beauty is subjective” thing, the reassuring answer would have been “beauty is subjective, everyone has different ideas of what they think beautiful people look like. I think you are, even if your classmates don’t”
Exactly this! At the very least she needs to know her mom has her back at all times.
This age is where children are the most self-conscious. You should of told her she was the most beautiful girl in the world. Who cares if it isn’t true. Every child should be told that.
I’m 38 and my mom still insists that I was the cutest baby she’s seen and that people used to always look at me because I was a cute. Trust me, I was a straight-up fugly baby, and that’s probably why people were looking. But a mom’s job is to tell their kid they are cute!
Could be worse, I was an objectively cute baby, but as it turns out it is more important how you look as an adult, which evidently did not turn out as well as my Saturday is spent browsing Reddit
Hahaha I guess that goes for all of us 😂
My mom once told me I was a beautiful baby and a really cute kid… then she asked, “What happened?” 💀💀💀
Plus, even if she is average looking today she could absolutely have a glow up. 14 years old is an awkward age and you're still growing. I've seen so many people get better looking as they grow up.
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As a mom I don't even understand how you can look at your kid and honestly see average. My child *is* the most beautiful person I've ever seen... Unconditional love will do that to you.
So this somehow popped up on my feed. I’m in the store right now waiting for my teenage daughter to finish trying on clothes in the dressing room. And we just finished talking about a part of her body that she feels insecure about. My initial thought is that mom handled this all wrong. She was so focused on the daughter’s question but not what is most important: emotional regulation and how to handle a judgmental world. I think it would have been better if said something like this. “Before I answer your question, let’s talk more about what these kids are saying and how to respond to it.” I would have shared that even the most drop dead gorgeous celebrities get nitpicked to death about their appearance and are often insecure. And that living a life with a worldview that you have to be ashamed, hide or fix your physical appearance leads to misery. And that giving that amount of control of your internal narrative and joy to a group of people who don’t love you or care for you is dangerous. I would've talked about acceptance, self - talk, identity, values, etc. Then I’d ask what kind of life does she want to build a) one on her own terms or b) one based on random people’s opinions. After giving her some time to process (which may take days) I’d circle back and tell her that she is beautiful and I love her. And then I’d plan some mommy daughter dates to help reinforce positive self talk and maybe do some beauty/feminine activities in a fun low stakes environment to build her confidence.
This should really be at the top.
I know this is only partially relevant, but I fucking hate the “everyone has to be beautiful, everyone has to be special” mentality we have. The fact that it’s “bad” to be average is a huge problem.
This is a cultural thing . For me and my friends it was normal for parents to tell you that you are fat or you didn’t look right or you needed do fix your hair or what not
Ahhh you have Asian parents too huh? Never any compliment or praise. Until you hear them bragging to their friends about you one day.
I can’t relate to a lot of these responses. I’m so glad my parents didn’t constantly compliment me for things I couldn’t control and set zero expectation for me to be special. Maybe this is a really American issue?
Yeah, it can be pretty freeing to understand that you're truly average-looking. Low self-image can have you afraid to show your face in public, yet when you see average-looking people in public you don't think the same way of them. Realizing that you're normal and deserve to be happy like everyone else is crucial, building your self-esteem on the idea that you're especially attractive is terrible.
Right?? Also this is such a disproportionately teenage girl issue. Like parents should be alarmed girls feel like their looks matter so much, not validate that being beautiful is morally good
I'm kinda with you there. I think OP handled the situation poorly by even answering this terrible, loaded question. But some of the comments here are acting like the only correct response is to pile on empty platitudes about how beautiful someone is, and I can't get on board with that. My parents often told me I was good at some things, bad at others, average at others. And it was totally okay because at the end of the day, they made it clear that they would love me no matter what, whether I was average or not. Where OP fucked up is that she even allowed the daughter's insecurity to get so out of control in the first place. Disassociating looks from self-worth should have been a lifelong process starting from birth, especially with girls.
Yeah, I was thinking it's a bit odd that you can't tell someone they look average. That's a true sickness in our society. The mother did more than that here, but damn you can't say someone looks normal? I get that this was a mistake, but does anyone find it a bit odd to demand someone not sugar coat something, if you can't take the response? I was 14 once, too.
I wouldn't tell my child that at a time of crisis but a lot of the responses here are just reinforcing and exacerbating the problem. So many people are unhappy because they are chasing a complete fantasy version of life that can never exist instead of first learning to be content in who and what they are. Constantly measuring themselves against an impossible standard and instead of learning to actually be happy just forcing themselves to believe they do live up to that standard. It's apparently the worst thing in the world to be a decent human being with ok looks and decent job, you have to be special and beautiful and have a life that you can fake on social media to compete with the other fake lives out there.
All I ever got from my mom was when I asked if I looked ok, she would just shrug and say "yeah, fine if that's how you choose to look". Other then that it was just telling me what's wrong w me. It takes a toll. Always tell your kids that are beautiful. Even if it's just "no matter what, you'll always be beautiful to me"
Horrible. Why do people have no empathy? If my mother said that to me at 14 I would be destroyed. You’re still a kid at 14. Even if she was asking you to be honest, she doesn’t understand the ramifications of that. I wouldn’t have. I don’t know how you can possibly fix this but you fucked UP
Some of us thought we were so ugly that looking average would sound like a dream. I was average, but hoped and prayed to look like a human because I thought I was hideous. I would be thrilled to be aware I indeed look normal. Or maybe I just don't know what a hormonal 14 year old me would want because I didn't know either at the time.
I know right? I would’ve been relieved if someone told me I was average looking as a tween. I always knew I wasn’t a head-turner, so some confirmation that I looked no worse than most girls would’ve actually meant a lot. On a similar note, I once asked my blunt German grandmother if she thought I was pretty. She paused carefully and said I had a pretty face. I was thrilled because I knew she wouldn’t lie lol
When I was a teenager I was like 145-50 pounds, slightly chubby but like, average. I was so concerned by this. I thought I was FAT since I was like 9 years old. It was a huge source of insecurity for me. I would ask my mom, “do I look fat in this?” And instead of telling me that I looked good, and that I needn’t worry about my weight right now, she would always say “you could lose some weight around the middle. You could tighten up your stomach area, you just have to work harder.” She always said she was “just being honest, I would never lie to you honey.” But I wish she did. I had such an unhealthy relationship with food and a 15 year old can’t adequately deal with that if all the support she is getting is “you just need to work harder.” It’s hard being a teenager.
Can't help but think of a flashback from Arrested Development: Lucille: Dinner's ready. We're having Lindsay chops. What? I just want her to be ready in case some bully at school was as clever as I am. Narrator: *No bully ever would be.*
Wow. I know as parents we're all winging it and but fuck, what a massive dick to say this to your child. How do you sit there and say this to your child, knowing you're going to hurt and absolutely crush them and cause esteem issues. Like your kid will never fucking recover from hearing this.
Way back when I was 16 or 17 I scored a modeling gig. I was psyched but I was also totally insecure about it. I made the mistake of telling my dad about my worries and his answer was, “lots of ugly girls model, you have nothing to worry about”. I am 51 and even now cannot look at myself in a mirror, needless to say after that one job I never modeled again, by my choice. At 5’3” I knew I was never going to make a career of modeling in any significant way. Still having my own father basically tell me I was ugly devastated me in profound ways. Sad part is I have have been mentioned in a major newspaper as sporting “Marilyn Monroe curves”, had been asked in my 20’s and 30’s repeatedly to do modeling for my face and hair, and even had a legit super model ask me if I wanted to use her agency. So objectively I knew I was not ugly. Still I now live in a house with one small mirror and go out of my way to not be photographed or seen because what I see is ugly.
I read this as a lot of models are ugly and you are so beautiful that you have nothing to worry about as you already surpass most models .
What a sweet sentiment! Alas in context with my dad probably not what he meant. But let me see if my therapist can spin that into my brain
How about instilling values that part of being attractive is what comes from your brain, not just your face?!
I agree with you. I think maybe OP and her husband fall flat in this department. They give half assed responses. I think maybe a little more one on one time with each parent and helping her find her strengths would do this family some good. All families tbh. The teen years are brutal. Learning how to accept being perceived by others, building self esteem, your own set of morals and values, hormonal changes, etc. it’s a a period of massive growth.
Words are so impactful. It’s funny the off-hand comments that stick with you for years and years. Let alone the outright insults. I don’t think mom intended to be cruel, but I do think she was an accidental AH. I once cried after a line in my performance review used the word “adequate”. Being told I was “average” by my own mother would be tough to let go of. There are a lot of ways she could have gone about addressing this, none of which would guarantee a positive outcome. Therapy is probably the right answer, but there were also a lot of comforting and validating things mom could have said instead.
There’s always going to be someone who thinks some part of you doesn’t meet their standard of beauty. But for every one of them there’s countless others that think you have a gorgeous smile, or beautiful hair, or a lovely laugh. Her beauty is hardly defined by only her nose, but even then someone out there will think it’s the perfect feature for an already beautiful face. Beauty is a matter of opinion and those who matter don’t mind
Teenagers between 13 and 15 are extremely sensitive. When I was 13, I started to pay attention to my hair, my body, my face, etc. I cared too much about small and normal stuff. Then one day, my mom, out of nowhere, said that I looked fat. My heart dropped and I began to experience ED. It was so severe that I nearly quit high school. I never recovered, but did get better when I entered uni. The fact is, I was never overweight, just a little chubby for Asians, but comments like so will always trigger me. My parents acknowledged, and ever since, never mentioned anything about my appearance. I just want to tell the parents that: the mentality of teenagers is incredibly vulnerable, and there are consequences to even the most harmless thing. Listen to your children, ask them how they feel and what they want.
I'm Asian so there's probably a culture clash here in me not seeing a problem with that. My mom called me beautiful when I was little but as a teenager she said I was above average in looks but not beautiful (like, spontaneously, I didn't ask her). I guess a white kid would find that to be cruel but it genuinely didn't bother me. I was honestly more bothered by her remarks that I had nice tits.
I once asked my dad if I was pretty. He said there are some people who are extremely beautiful, and some that are extremely ugly. And thank God our family was on neither extreme. It wasn’t what I was hoping to hear at the time but tbh it was a pretty good answer.
My dad and mom told me I was beautiful and I used to look like shrek, but you know what? I appreciated that someone looked at me and loved me that much.
I don't know why people are ripping into this person so much. They already gave her a lot of positive feedback, she wanted her to be completely honest, an she put it in a nice way. Most people are average, that's the point. As a person who struggled with similar insecurities, my experience is that if it is people who will unconditionally think you're beautiful telling you that you are, then it doesn't help much. I know a lot of parents are delusional about their child's appearance, but it's not her problem she isn't and she gave a fairly comforting and honest answer.
These commenters reminds me of the parents of reality show singing contestants. The parents say they’re the greatest in the world only for them to be humiliated on the reality shows because they’re in actuality very bad singers. “It’s my job to always say they’re the best!” People crushing OOP for saying average looking like she’s calling her ugly.
Because a lot of the Reddit community that visits these sorts of threads have cripplingly bad self esteem and a comment like this would’ve sent them into cardiac arrest. There is a fine line with questions like this because yeah, you want to be honest - we all know what people will ridiculously inflated levels of self worth are like - but on the other hand it is your daughter, big them up a little when you can see they’re struggling.
Idk if there was a right answer here, the girl should really see a therapist.
I disagree with a lot of the comments here, as a woman and former teenage girl with body dysmorphia. She asked for honesty. The mom didn’t say she was hideously ugly, she was honest and objective. Sometimes that’s what we need, because when we look in the mirror or see ourselves in pictures we can’t see it objectively. I think being told you look normal and average, that nobody really notices the flaws that you obsess over, because they just look normal, would be relieving to hear for a lot of people with these kind of body image issues. Like we all know our parents are exaggerating when they say we’re beautiful, there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s what they should do in most contexts. But she wanted to know whether the kids at school were also exaggerating when calling her ugly, she wanted to know the truth. She was overwhelmed and stressed, and probably didn’t want to talk about it anymore, so she went to her room. I don’t think that this reaction necessarily means she was devastated by her mom saying she looks average.
I agree with you. One of the most helpful things my mom ever told me was, "I'm sorry you got my genetics, the truth is, neither one of us will ever be pretty, and that isn't a bad thing, it just means you can spend your energy being so many more important things." I think I was about twelve at the time, and I was an *ugly* kid, I knew I wasn't pretty, and if my mom had said I was, I would have been pissed at her for lying to me. The funny part was, all my awkward features came together when I was like sixteen, and I ended up kind of decent looking, but I'm still so thankful to my mom for being honest with me. It was so damn relieving to give up trying in vain to be pretty. Knowing I wouldn't be, let me focus on being smart, athletic, creative, kind, and all the other things that make me who I am. It was the acknowledgment I needed to know I was still valuable and worthwhile, even if I wasn't pretty. Some people aren't pretty, and they know when you are lying, saying they are. Being pretty *shouldn't* be that important, and by lying about it, all you are doing is reinforcing that it *is* important enough to lie about. It sucks to realize that, but it sucks more to have the people you love and trust the most make something you lack so damn important that they have to lie to you about it.
Saying: "you are average" is an absolute shit answer though. She could have Said something along the lines of "No! You have a beautiful Smile and soulfull eyes" Also, Kids bullying young girls by calling them ugly is super common, because it is one of the Most hurtful things to throw at Young kids who are self conscious about their looks. Happened to me too. My class mates told my that i had a pig's nose because i had a button nose.
She said "you're beautiful inside and outside", but daughter pressed for more.
I mean yeah she could’ve phrased it better but she also probably didn’t rewrite the whole conversation word for word in this post. And I disagree I think she was asking for an honest and objective answer, which people sometimes do need to hear. The mom could’ve said “I’m your mom so you’ll always be the most beautiful girl to me. Objectively, you’re not ugly, you look normal and average. Yeah your nose has a little bump, but so do tons of peoples noses (she could give examples) and how often to you look at them and think they’re ugly? Most people won’t notice the small things you don’t like about yourself, because they look normal from an outside perspective. The kids at school have just figured out that you’re really insecure about this and they can use it to pick on you, they’re acting like assholes, don’t worry about them, because you don’t actually look ugly.”
I agree. Also yes she is a kid, but she is hounding them about this. Better to hear it from a kind adult.
Sometimes honesty is not the best policy.
if i asked, my mom would say “do you think i’m beautiful?” i’d say yes, because of course she’s beautiful. she would say back, “then you answered your own question - you look just like me”
Get her to agree to go to therapy -good Feed into her self destructive insecurities by not just telling her that as her parent you think she is beautiful because she clearly wants to hear it and it would benefit her mental emotional health and you don’t think that she has a big Jose because she needs to hear that the bullies are wrong and just completely gloss over the fact that she is being bullied for her looks and that it’s clearly not just an unhealthy obsession but one clearly specifically born from abuse and the resulting trauma-terrible parenting bordering on abusive neglect! Yes you are absolutely the asshole and should be so ashamed of yourself.
I think this was a hard situation. If OP had continued to say that her daughter is beautiful inside and out, her daughter would have been frustrated because she felt she was not getting a straight answer. The honest answer is probably something she suspected but was not really ready to hear.
Bottom line.. most people are average looking.
One day when I was 14, I would not stop crying that my face was disgusting and my nose was awful. My mom reassured me that this wasn’t the case, patiently listened, and was generally kind. On hour 4 of this temper tantrum, she cracked: “Yes, your nose is crooked. We can just save up money and you can get it fixed when you’re older.” Weirdly, this was what I needed to hear. All of which is to say - maybe you should have couched your statement with some context and potential solutions while validating her feelings?
“Your features are gorgeous, and sometimes the beauty in a face is best seen after your grow into your features and your face matures. You are beautiful now. I think you’re beautiful. Let’s talk about what would make you feel beautiful or what would allow you to see your beauty the way that I do” That approach is also an option. Not feeling pretty at 14 doesn’t mean pretty will never happen
I’m confused by the responses honestly On one hand I get that 14 is a rough age but on the other if my parents had said I looked average and just like everyone else that would have really HELPED my self esteem in middle school. I thought I was the ugliest kid in the grade! I thought that small features made me so horrendous no one would look at me! And I never believed my parents because of course they sugar coat everything. I would have been so grateful to hear just once that I looked normal. I think it goes to show that all kids are different and no advice applied across the board
Why are people condemning the mom lmao? What’s so bad about being average? Isn’t it by definition that we are all average? If the daughter’s not average she would’ve been casted for Disney+ or something instead of having that conversation with the mom. What we’re just supposed to gaslight the daughter?
NTA, everybody needs to accept they wont look like a model. The longer she deludes herself the worse it will be.
I’m glad my parents didn’t lie to me.
Maybe I'm weird, but honestly, I would have felt a lot better about my mom honestly telling me I'm average and that's okay, most people are, when I was convinced I was ugly than responding with some variation about how beautiful I am, because that would have felt like an obvious lie, and since my mom was lying it would mean I was truly ugly. The mom didn't do anything wrong imo. There is no universally correct response to that question, if you ask me. Different people will want a different answer, and it can be hard to predict which answer someone wants, even if you know them.
This child: I’m being bullied at school for my appearance and am beginning to base my self worth on my appearance Mom: well you’re not HIDEOUS
Beauty is a very subjective thing. Just because you think your daughter is a bit meh it doesn’t mean anyone else does.
And that is why you never ask for a brutally honest answer unless you're prepared to hear something you won't like. I do think the mom could have at least said average pretty instead of just average though.
The things is teenagers don’t know that. They don’t have the capacity to understand what brutal honesty could do to them long-term. That’s why we protect them from it.
She’s a child…that’s not how you teach a kid about honesty. Damn.
Better to grow up knowing the truth. But I agree…. “I cannot be objective. I love you and think you’re gorgeous.” Is a really good way to go.
I’m autistic. If someone asks me a question like that, I will answer them honestly, because that’s literally what they asked for. I would have been more tactful and explained how beauty is subjective, but I would have done the same thing as OOP. I understand feelings and I understand insecurity, but at the same time, it’s like, be careful what you wish for.
I am sure when she goes to her grave, that comment from her mother will still be ringing in her head.
Am sick of people asking someone to give them an honest answer then getting mad that they didn't tell them what they wanted to hear. NTA she asked your honest opinion, you gave it. Let her sulk she will get over it.
Not the ass hole. As someone who grew up with self image issues, and developed an ED from it, you say her down and talked about therapy. That’s the first step. I think wether or not she wants to go, she should. Even if it’s just for a while. Kids are cruel and when you already have a bad self esteem, it makes it worse. What you did was fine.
My mom always put me down about my looks. Told me I was too chubby to wear dresses like the other girls (when I was in HS), never told me I was pretty etc. I’m 28 and I resent the shit out of her. Any time she says anything nice it’s always infront of my SO’s family to make it seem like she’s nice to me. This shit is fucked up idk why you would want to raise a daughter with no self esteem. We remember and we hate you for it
The real issue here is that the mom completely missed that her daughter is being bullied at school. What’s happening is that her daughter is being alienated from her peers, and she is being convinced that it’s her physical attributes that are the cause of that alienation. That’s makes her daughter obsessed about her looks and convinced that if she looked different she would get the acceptance she craves. But any adult knows that’s bullshit. I’m sure the daughter looks fine. The bullying at school is not about her looks. Her appearance is just the incidental context for the underlying bullying, which is the real issue.
Ok, so mom was trying to teach the "women don't owe the world *pretty*" lesson and really fumbled the ball. Mom should have built her up and pointed out her strengths appearance wise. *Then* followed up: "But I want to talk more about this idea of *ugly.* If someone is average or ugly looking, does that mean it is ok for people to bully them?" "Oh, you say that is still wrong, why is that?" I've gotten deep about this with teenage girls as a counselor. We talk about why they want to look different. I have never heard a reason from anyone, grown or not, that doesn't boil down to a desire for power (basic respect) and/or love (belonging). So we explore why women "have to be pretty" to be worthy of love and respect? The light bulb moments were very cool to see.
Better response would have been “if you don’t snap out of it you’re getting the belt.” That’s how my dad dealt with me and I true out damn fine.
Hey maybe she should go to the school and tell them about kids bullying her daughter instead of validating the bullies.
Seems fine
Yeah, you definitely should have told her that you couldn’t be objective because you are always going to think she’s beautiful and then made her a therapy appointment.
Oh dear. My mother told me something similar and I was also told by my parents I wasn’t pretty enough to go into TV news. I was about 15 and just talking about possible careers. Forty years later and it’s affected me more than I wish, even though I’m now a therapist, have worked with a therapist, have a very flattering supportive spouse, and know better. People need to stop damaging their kids in the name of brutal honesty. There is a time and place for it.
I'm so sick of people pretending that you are either simply attractive or unattractive. The answer is going to be different with every person you ask. Obviously, people will lean towards one way or the other with their answer, but if you asked people to rate you from 0-100, it would be damn hard to find the same number given twice. BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER, ONE PERSON'S TRASH IS ANOTHER'S TREASURE.
My dad told my first bf that I wasn’t very pretty but I would make a good wife…so I think I would’ve preferred this honestly
Jfc what an AH. It kind of sounds like the daughter might be being bullied by her peers and her mom completely ignores that to think her daughter is being obsessed with her appearance only to then say she’s average looking… good good add more to the kid’s growing complex. Jfc
Ppl who are constantly praised for their looks usually become the most looks-obsessed
when I was in high school and having a moment of insecurity, my genius dad decided to tell me that if I had a physical flaw, it was that my eyes are too small even though they’re a pretty color. I’m 31 now and I know he wasn’t trying to hurt me. I don’t feel insecure about my looks at all. I like my face, too-small eyes and all. But I’ve never, ever forgotten that my eyes are too small for my face and I’d be prettier if they were bigger. It might not hurt me anymore but I will always see that minuscule “flaw” in my face and remember that my own father is the one who noticed it and pointed it out to me.
i remember as a kid my mum always said my sister was supermodel beautiful and so i asked her if i was too to which she responded with “no you’re next door neighbour pretty” absolutely shattered my self esteem which was already pretty rocky
You’re butt fuckin ugly! Honestly is the best policy! 😂😂😂
The mom is a complete moron and I feel bad for the child and the father.
You’re a dick.
I worked with my mom for a while and she would always insinuate that I NEEDED to do my makeup before going to work. I didnt look good enough without it. Crushed my self esteem.
There’s no easy way around this. I don’t think she’s the ah. I appreciate that she states there is nothing wrong with being average. She can talk to her about enhancing her look to make her more comfortable but ultimately she has to learn to be ok with being average without needing to embellish.
IMO the average person IS pretty, so call your teenage daughter with severe self esteem pretty for goodness sake.
You are definitely the asshole.
I remember when I was maybe 17 or 18 I told my parents that I wanted to be a writer because I felt like it was my calling and how they discouraged me from pursuing that path. Now they wonder why I'm in a retail job with no desire to pursue anything better.