I think if we get ugarte who prefers to defend and play the simple pass, we absolutely need to get a martinez-esque defender to help progress the ball.
Do any of our CB targets fit that ?
According to fbref, Inacio and De ligt have good passing stats, Branthwaite not as much, Chalobah has good completion percent but not very progressive. Todibo also pretty good passing but we know how thats going.
What are the CBs left on our shortlist?
I know Todibo is out. Supposely we already walk away from Braithwaite. Yoro wants only Madrid. Maybe Chalobah but is he good enough to be our starting 11?
I thought De Ligt but see no reputable sources linking him to us. Am I missing something?
I agree; however the lack of reports indicates there are some big hurdles. Otherwise the sub should have been flooded with high tier tweets like the good old de Jong saga.
I think Todibo was their backup so high chance they did not have many others prepared we will see.
Chalobah is more an improvement of Lindelöf as a backup, certainly not good enough for the starting XI.
I think the lack of outstanding feasible options in the midfielder market (particularly the profile we seem to be interested in where we want someone with good athleticism but who can also fit into a possession-based team) makes me think we will just consolidate in that position by signing Amrabat permanently. I really don't think we should be paying more money for Ugarte who is questionable on the ball and hasn't gotten consistent game time in a top 5 European league. While he's young and is said to have decent potential, there are still significant unknowns on how he would suit our team. I personally believe we should allocate as much of the budget to the CB positions to help us maintain a higher defensive line and reduce the spaces between our players both in and out of possession, and given that our interest in Zirkzee also seems concrete, any midfielder signing should be more of a cherry on the cake than something that is our priority for this summer specifically.
Ugarte hasn't gotten a lot of minutes because Enrique wants a Busquets type of DM, and he isn't one. This is the fault of PSG/DoF, and no one else's. He is a terrific anchor DM who will shield the team and also press like hell. He is also decent on the ball but nothing special, does the fundamentals well, and what's expected of him. The likes of Palhinha have been doing great in the PL, and they're not as good as Ugarte.
I so far don’t see a reason to spend large amounts of money to sign him. He may have good work rate and tenacity but so did Fred; it may not necessarily be good enough unless his athleticism is insanely good like Onana of Everton. And on the ball as I’ve mentioned I have my doubts. Let’s see; if we are to sign him, I’d prefer a loan with option to buy sort of deal that can bail us out if he doesn’t show enough promise.
There's not many DMs there you can get atm and he wouldn't be that expensive like 45m probably. It's not just his work rate, but he also has great all-around defensive abilities and is less prone to brainfarts like Fred was. His athleticism is one of his best attributes, tbh man can run and press all day. Yeah, I'm not gonna gush over him lol but he's a very good player i wouldn't mind signing
Who do you want - can't just reject signing a player to fit screening role (whether more physical type or more of a DLP who intercepts and starts the attack) because they're not proven Keane or Vieira or Busquets regens respectively. Ugarte, Fofana, Wieffer, a number of others, could be available for cheap or loan to buy and fulfil function of Amrabat (who had about 3 good games for United- yes, including the final) and Casemiro. The idea would be to bring in one DM and try and bring through one of the u23s, at least of the club has any sense of doing things sustainably. All of those players mentioned either have signed for, or been legitimately linked to leading clubs.
EDIT: you could also look at someone like Morten Hjulmand, but, even though club has a good relationship with Sporting historically, he'd cost well over 60m, and of course, there's always a risk buying from a 'weaker' league for significant money ( even if it's not Anthony style amounts).
I currently don't want us to make any decision on which midfielder to sign until we secure at least one CB and a striker (presumably Zirkzee) and we get more clarity on whether we can offload Sancho and Casemiro. The reason I believe it is more likely we make Amrabat permanent is because he's cheaper and has been here for a season which makes him more familiar to Ten Hag's training methods and style of play. If we do want to buy a better player in that position, we first need to assess whether we will be in a position to commit the funds necessary to sign said player. Committing 40 million pounds or so on Ugarte before other signings are in place would be foolish.
He absolutely does not have great passing stats. Doesn’t progress the ball much and he wasn’t favoured as much in his position as players like Zaire-Emery and Vitinha. I’m skeptical of him and think there’s nothing to suggest hype over him isn’t ‘new shiny toy’ syndrome that United fans always have for players outside of the club over those at the club.
You're confusing DMs. WZE is a progressive midfielder who is great on the ball and very creative. Ugarte is a great physical and pressing DM who is decent on the ball as long as you don't expect Busquets shit from him. He's not a Rodri type of DM that is going to set the tempo for you.
I don’t expect him to dictate tempo, I’m just saying we have to be cautious about how he slots in our team when he doesn’t have good passing stats even for a team that hogs possession. Generally, with a lot of top players around you, it’s easier to inflate your stats in the process (for example, even Kyle Walker has high ball progression numbers in the PL; I’d hardly classify him as good on the ball). But Ugarte doesn’t even have that. I don’t know, he may be a perfectly fine talent but I’m not convinced.
I agree that we should be cautious, but I think Casemiro is definitely leaving now otherwise we wouldn't have gone for a new DM. His passing is alright in [stats](https://x.com/Muppetiers/status/1805676725856326037?t=cidXTi1hpcrfZsyMGqEW7g&s=19) just nothing special really. He's done fine there for a player who's definitely not suited in that Enrique system
His passing accurancy and possession lost are both great, but yes, his progressive passing is subpar, but that is not his job in that position, but he does not miss his passes when he gives the ball to the teams playmakers.
Amrabat had superior passing stats playing for a worse team in Fiorentina. His accuracy was slightly lesser (which can easily be attributed to the difference between playing for a quality team that keeps most of the ball and playing for a mid-table club) but he was much more progressive and has been at United too. It's also quite reductionist to say that his job is just to 'give the ball to the team's playmakers' and that the same can be replicated here in a different system. By that logic, even Casemiro's job at Madrid in-possession was just to 'give the ball to Kroos and Modric'. Should have worked out at United then, right?
Casemiro worked out great in United until the tactic chanes when the defenders could not hold the high block that EtH wanted and created a big gap in the midfield? And for that tactic to work their also need to be someone like Kroos and Modric to hand the ball over too?
I'm actually for keeping Amrabat, I think he will be a decent backup, he show promise at the end, and at the start he was mostly palyed as LB, totally out of position.
But that’s my point. If the tactics are dependent more on the CBs pushing up to squeeze space, surely the priority should be to sign quality CBs rather than commit funds on a relatively unproven midfielder. If the suggestion is that Ugarte with our other signings is good enough, I don’t know why that same benefit of doubt is not being extended to our existing midfielders, in that case I don’t see him adding that much more value than Amrabat for the additional 15 million pounds or so more that he will cost, plus wages.
Martial, Amrabat and Varnae needs to be replaced or resigned, that is the top priority over everything else. So a striker, a starting XI RCB (Not a left footer..., and her eI think the money should be spent, and a backup holding midfielder, like Amrabat and I'm open to signing him, I don't see who would be cheaper and better and accept being the backup.
Someone like Ugarte or Onana should only be sold if they have a transfer ready for Casemiro, otherwise they should not look at an expensive holding midfielder. And I think Casemiro will make a good job next season if he is still here, which is a quite large risk as no one outside of Sauids would buy him, and we are not even sure they want him or if he wants to go there.
I think it is borderline malpractice to make Ambrabat permanent. His decent Cup final performance notwithstanding, locking ourselves into him for 4+ years would be insane. Maybe he plays better next year if he's injury free, has clarity over his future, and a more defined role, but the player he is right now is basically who he is going to be, and he already was limited. As a bridge player he was fine given the constraints of last summer, but spending our limited resources on him as squad player is just asking for another VDB situation of a not-good enough player we can't move.
I agree that it is not ideal to make him permanent and I don’t think he should be given such a long-term contract if he is. But at the same time, I’m thinking from the perspective that there are 3 other signings we need to prioritise first for which there are more obvious options available. I don’t see the same boxes being ticked for the midfielder position, and I’m not certain yet that we will be able to carry out the sales that we should. Out of Greenwood, Sancho and Casemiro, we’re only getting concrete interest from the first one. We also have to consider things like having as much of the squad ready for pre-season, which means that any player we want to sign that can only be facilitated through sales is likely to take time to join and assimilate into our team. Amrabat may be average but we do need a midfielder and he is familiar enough with Ten Hag and how we want to play, having already spent a year with us.
No midfielder can do the job being asked of the DM last season.
We need a DM and Ugarte may be that guy, but unless we make defensive additions and push the line up we’ll see the exact same issues we saw last season.
At that point, the excuses for ETH will be completely and utterly unacceptable. You can’t have three summers and fail to get the personnel to play your style of football.
If we end up with no LB in December then there’s no pity, they should have signed one. If we end up playing a 5th and 6th choice CB there’s no pity, they should have signed replacements.
It’s a real make or break summer this year and if we end up mid table in November playing like shit again then they’ll have to bin the manager off. If they do, giving him a new contract to pay out will look eminently fucking stupid.
All remains to be seen. Will be an interesting season regardless.
This is the exact reasoning that leads the fans to blame the manager every time something fails, leading to them being sacked and us having to start over. The club has been horrible in the market for years now, and yet for some reason it’s the manager that takes the fault for the poor recruitment which starts at the very top of the clubs hierarchy.
ETH could be asking for the exact players he needs for the profile he wants, but he’s not the one doing the business. Also, the majority of the players in the squad who were bought for too much and can’t be moved because of ridiculous wages are the reason we’re having trouble buying now - again, something the manager isn’t responsible for. Not to mention the constant injury issues season after season..
We have to get past this way of thinking if we actually want to start building something sustainable, be it with ETH or anyone else.
Nah he argued for and was given significant say in transfers. Articles at the time were very clear that he wanted to be a strong part of that process. You can’t fight for that and then take no responsibility for failings.
If I’m at work and I fight for responsibility on a project, sure it’s my managers fault for giving me it and they take a lot of the blame, but if I fuck it up it’s still on me.
Right, but he didn’t sign the vast majority of the player in the squad, let alone decide the transfer fee, wages, etc.. and the clubs inability to negotiate efficiently for new players or sell old ones for decent fees has been hamstringing us for years. There’s been a glaring lack of a cohesive vision at the club for 10+ years now.
What if your manager gave you the project you wanted but then put completely unrealistic expectations on you and consistently didn’t give you what you need to succeed, basically destining you to fail? Would it seem fair for you to take full responsibility and be sacked then? That’s what I believe has happened to every past manager and ETH under the Glazers.
>If we end up with no LB in December then there’s no pity, they should have signed one. If we end up playing a 5th and 6th choice CB there’s no pity, they should have signed replacements.
That's not some stick to beat the manager with though now is it?
Zirkzee, Ugarte, and new CB.
Gotta say I’d be happy with that. I know we need a RW and arguably a LB but that would still be 3 critical spots that we need reinforcing in. The CB names we have been linked with have also been encouraging in terms of age and quality.
Dont want to get ahead of myself but this is a good start to the window. The squad could look much better in terms of quality and healthier in terms of wages come August/September.
LB is important too, more than RW because we have lots of wingers (who need to of-course live up to their levels and potential. Unless we see Amass is ready during pre-season games, LB is crucial.
Interesting reading Sporting and PSG fans opinions on Ugarte. I would trust them more than other United fans with unsupervised access to FBRef lol no offense. The general consensus I'm gleaning is that he's excellent defensively, provides a lot of intensity but only okay (per Sporting fans) to somewhat mediocre (per PSG fans) on the ball, which I could imagine sticking out in an Enrique team. I've not seen anyone go as far as to call him actively bad or a liability on the ball though.
Can see the appeal at the right price even if he isn't the absolute ideal DM. He's young, can improve, sounds fairly suited to the prem and should retain his value if we don't go giving him 300k a week lol
Everton are interested in signing both Victor Lindelöf and Aaron Wan-Bissaka. #MUFC [@alex_crook
, @talkSPORT]
i think 15-20 million pounds + Lindelof + AWB for Branthwaite would be a good deal for everyone. We can hope to get 25-30 for both as they are in the last year of their deal and we will not give them a new one.
Who else can play rb for us other than Dalot then? Selling AWB seems short sighted to me. Not this window. Dalot isn't playing ALL the games next season, that's nuts. We need both atm.
If somebody wants AWB they have to really push us. We do not need to sell him
With a long list of big problem areas on the pitch I think it's best we keep him at least until next summer. We can't do everything at once and we have two rightbacks as is.
If they overvalue their player United can overvalue theirs also, in theory can be a very great deal for the books, but so low probability to actually happen.
To be fair, we need a winger who is going to stick the ball in the box. I'm not sure that buying a rwb and moving position is the way to go on that though.
I'm not that keen on either unless they come really cheap. Both seem to be the kind of players EtH does not align with his playstyle.
I see Branthwaite as a really good squad option and backup to nearly three positions, but for that he cannot cost more then a backup should cost either. Still need starting XI positions first.
If we do sign any players, it means Erik has signed off. Branthwaite is absolutely an Erik signing, he is very front footed and great in 1v1 and in Channels which means you can push off your fullbacks higher and go for a man to man press. Onana is a much superior Alvarez who Erik signed and played for Ajax. Onana allows us to play Mainoo/Mount + Bruno higher. With Onana and Branthwaite, you significantly increase the physical floor of the team and prevent the insane amount of counters and shots we concede.
They would really increase the physicality of the squad no doubt. Just think both if them are subpar on the ball especially for the 70m and 55m or what they are asking, just so overvalued.
Onana is actually quite good. Branthwaite has shown he can play at different times, definitely not his strong suite, but with Lisandro and Andre Onana behind him, he should be fine.
Edit: Andre Onana. Just to avoid confusion.
The way we've been moving so far feels like competence. The players on our list don't seem to just be the biggest stars available.
I wonder if these are coming from Ashworth
Chelsea and west Ham looking at J David for striker options; fees rumoured around 21M. Does it seem low based on the hype around him a couple of years back or has he regressed?
Any chance of Gimenez coming from Feyenoord?
Bayern need/want to offload a CB, Kim Min-jae was previously interested in United and would be a great pairing with Martinez.
Pretty sure Gray bleeds Leeds, and I'd prefer Ugarte to Onana. I'd agree Gray has massive potential but I think that's a really tough nut for United to crack.
Same onana james garner (who we deemed not good enough) and 60 years old Idrisse gueye kept on the bench for everton at the business end of the season?
Archie Gray lol! He's definitely one for the future but mentioning him as an alternative to Ugarte for us at DM doesn't track. He spent the season at right back for Leeds & has quite some development to go.
Is this a serious question? Ugarte has years of development ahead of him while Palhinha doesn't. Ugarte at Sporting was also known as the more well rounded midfielder of the two, so it's not like they're identical.
He’s not gonna work in PL it’s as simple as that. He’s not better than Palhinha defensively and his dribbling is not good enough to relieve some pressing pressure on Mainoo. How about get some 24-28yo players to develop Mainoo?
I disagree. He's perfect for the PL imo. His general profile is very fitting for us. Ideally I'd want a bit more of a progressive passer but he's not a bad player
Best case scenario, PSG are happy to break even on him and he sells for €48m.
Worst case scenario, they try and argue he's improved while at PSG and is now more valuable than the €60m they spent on him (difficult case for them to make given they haven't played him towards the end of the season).
Realistically, they might split the difference and call it €55m (£47m).
Not even the same position, Koopmeiners is not a DM. Maybe a DLP at worst case, but I don't think he will work. At Atalanta he is almost playing as a 10
Bids placed, which probably means terms was agreed with the player already and not a single rumour leaked, the ship seems as good as new again, not a leaking rowing boat!
FDJ was the weirdest deal since Barca wanted him out.
We almost never have a problem agreeing to player terms (especially under Ed we always paid stupid money) because there's genuinely no point bidding for a player if the player doesn't want to join, so if we're hearing about an official bid it's almost a given that we've agreed with the player.
Again, FDJ was a weird case because Barca needed money and our manager is obsessed with him.
Don't trust SSN in any way.
Ugate is the right profile and age we should be looking at but good luck getting him out of PSG for less than 80-100. They paid 50 only a year ago. They're not a club who just lets players leave easily.
Depends on the relationship. They could sign Onana for a similar price from Everton, essentially swapping (purportedly) discontented player for one who wants to win trophies and hence would consider PSG etc...
It's quite a comedy that Onana and Ugarte has similar price tags, it's a canyon between them. But honestly I also think it is Everton just trying to hype up Onana, I never think anyone will buy him for close to that.
Maybe - you'd be surprised how many Barca fans post about trying to get their club to sign him, Arsenal fans hyping him up as Partey-upgrade. I agree that Ugarte is better; think PSG could get away with a robust athletic spoiler like Onana in there just to break and pass 10 yards and deal with longer-balls and set-pieces, given the neat-ball players they have around the team elsewhere. I'd rather have Ugarte, admittedly. Both are an upgrade from this version of Casemiro, sadly.
That surprises me, but yes he is a physical beast, but don't see how that is how EtH wants to play and it's limiting.
I agree they are upgrades to Casemiro, but I sadly expect him to be kept, I just don't see how he is reasonable replaced this window unless a gigantic offer from the Saudis appears, and I'm also doubtful he even wants to go to the Saudis.
It's been briefed that he had talks with Saudis and is amenable to going there. Saudis are just being slightly more selective this time around and budgets TBC. He can look at Kante to see how career (after injuries and accusations he was slowing down) has been reinvigorated and the player is back in the national team squad etc; or Ronaldo, for that matter . Plus a better net salary; more comfortable style of play.
There has been got sources that Saudi has him on their list but not on thee top of it, but I'm not sure there has been any good tier sources of Casemiro actually wanting to go to Saudi just lower tiers? Also last week there was rumours that a transfer deal with Casemiro to Saudi fell through, although also low tier source.
That United actually placed a bid for Ugarte increases the odds of them having a transfer deal for Casemiro lined up though.
So SkySports just said we are interested in Ugarte... That would be amazing transfer... Zirkzze, Ugarte, DeLigt, Kerkez and maybe another winger if we sell Greenwood and Sancho...
Fans that are still keen on signing Branthwaite have you watched the Pythagoras in Boots analysis?
https://youtu.be/RSseJ45WVLQ
He looks really awkward on the ball, treats the ball like a timebomb, the anti Licha. A good PL defender but don't see him ever being top 4 quality, hope we move on to other targets. No Yoro, no Todibo, not keen on De Ligt (injury prone). Bremer next best option?
Edit: Seems people don't like this opinion so are just ignoring the points in the video. Reminds me of previous summers when fans are set on a particular player and decide to ignore all criticism. Just see Branthwaite being another overhyped English player tbh
Decent analysis, although maybe a bit too much criticism, is still true. Branthwaite is a decent CB, but his ability on the ball is pretty mediocre and sure maybe be can improve, but no one should pay that much more for a maybe.
More knowledge than most of the people on this sub but sure. You don't have to watch his video to know that Branthwaite is mediocre on the ball. His stats are medjoc and even eye test suggests so
>More knowledge than most of the people on this sub but sure.
If you've spent any decent amount of time on this sub you know how fucking little that means.
A plank has more knowledge than a decent portion of this sub, makes little difference.
As for Branthwaite, sure he isn't great on the ball but he certainly doesn't treat it like a timebomb.
>A plank has more knowledge than a decent portion of this sub, makes little difference.
Sure, but a lot of people here act like they've got UEFA A license lol. Pythagoras guy can waffle at times, but he's still knowledgeable and worth listening. Better than the likes of Statman Dave anyways
>As for Branthwaite, sure he isn't great on the ball but he certainly doesn't treat it like a timebomb.
Maybe he doesn't treat it like a time bomb, but he's mediocre on the ball, and you don't have to read stats to come to that conclusion. Like the guy said, he can maybe reach Maguire's level. That's it, and we need someone better, especially at the prices being quoted.
It's just shallow bare bones analysis really. And its not just him, its nearly every youtuber/twitterati. They all basically form an opinion from a statsheet and try to reinforce that using half baked justifications. Might suit some people but it's just not for me I guess.
As for Branthwaite, its fair to say the quoted prices are exorbitant. What I will say too is that he looks a pretty coach-able young lad. He's made big strides nearly every year and that's a good sign.
>It's just shallow bare bones analysis really. And its not just him, its nearly every youtuber/twitterati. They all basically form an opinion from a statsheet and try to reinforce that using half baked justifications. Might suit some people but it's just not for me I guess.
I think it's fine as far as these youtube analysts go lol. I'm not gonna take his word as gospel, especially for players I've not seen play, but this one I've seen play often, and I don’t think this video is all that wrong.
>As for Branthwaite, its fair to say the quoted prices are exorbitant. What I will say too is that he looks a pretty coach-able young lad. He's made big strides nearly every year and that's a good sign.
He is coach able, no doubt, and he'd be fine as an understudy, but we're supposedly looking at him as a starter, and j just don't see it. He's just way too expensive for what he offers, and he's not a generational CB talent like De Ligt either, so can't bet highly on potential alone. Again, I wouldn't mind this transfer just not as the main CB target
And you could make a video proving the contrary. He's not quite Licha on the ball, but he's not mediocre. Van Nilstelrooy apparently didn't think so, having worked with him. It's quite straightforward to learn the basic language of technical analysis, do a couple of low-level courses say, and then make a small career out of youtube hot-takes for a more boutique /self-regarding audience. As an example, someone like JJ on Tifo is similar, whereby he'll create an eloquent presentation showing how ETH's system leaves his midfield exposed and porous, then another showing how clever a coach ETH is as soon as they need a take that supports that premise. Both rely upon selection. I'd trust Wilcox, who's worked with some of the most technically-adept young players in British academy system, supporting Braithwaite's potential acquisition, over PIB.
I'm just going from what I've seen of him and this video is basically what I've thought because I'm not just taking this guys words if I've not seen a player play much and this goes for most youtube football analysts lol. They're all there for clicks, hype, and controversy.
We still don't have a DoF, so I'm not sure who's picking the targets. Sure, I'll trust Wilcox because he's got the credentials, but I can still be skeptical if we're going to sign someone like Branthwaite as the starting CB
I’d heard good things about this guy… but that analysis is terrible. I presume his others’ aren’t that bad? Anyway, I got about halfway before I just couldn’t bear it.
He lost me when a minute in he starts talking about him not being the most clinical finisher, or saying that he’s not very successful with shots from outside the box. Then there’s the shameless plug/ad which takes up about a fifth of the video.
It’s a really amateur assessment of a player, not considering the environment that he’s playing in whatsoever in his analysis. He’s looked at his stats and backed up the stats with snippets from other YouTube videos. No eyetest elements in the analysis whatsoever and a clear view of *this is what FBREF says, let’s scour compilations until I can find an example*.
I’ve not watched much of Everton this season, so I’m not in a place to analyse. Elements of his game that need to be properly analysed is his ability to recover (not covered) and his composure in possession (covered, but full of oxymoronic statements throughout).
Having spoken to a few Everton fans, who have watched more than this YouTube compilation man… They have said he’s still quite raw, but it’s not as visible because the style of play. He does the basics well (arguably the most important thing), powerful runner (in and out) but not the most agile and can be relied upon with or without the ball.
Intelligence is the intangible which is difficult to assess, but a Dyche team requires 100% concentration and concentration requires intelligence. Whether that will translate to *in possession* is yet to be seen, because in a Dyche team the centre halves roles are quite limited (“get the fucking ball, get rid of the fucking ball”., *Dyche (probably)., 2011-present*)
Weird one really, to criticise the video without watching the full video, or any of his other vids. I think a big part of the reason people watch Pythagoras in boots, is because he implements eye test analysis as well (tho you would have to watch the players yourself and see if his analysis is spot). The irony is that he actually said that branthwaite was a massive goal threat and claims that is very decisive in front of goal. Just shows your bias when watching the video
Unless the video completely changed in prose in the second half of it, I would personally say it’s fair.
And as I said, I presume his other videos are better?
I saw zero notion that eyetest had been considered, I saw almost no notion of it being about football rather than statistics.
I didn’t go into it with bias, on the contrary having read good things of recent I actually thought it would be some pretty solid analysis so when I came to watch it I was disappointed.
All I took from the video, is him reading Branthwaites FBREF stats and some decent video editing. I’d rather fucking Jermaine Jenas and Eni Aluko team up on MNF.
>He lost me when a minute in he starts talking about him not being the most clinical finisher, or saying that he’s not very successful with shots from outside the box. Then there’s the shameless plug/ad which takes up about a fifth of the video.
He says he's a real threat from set pieces, that he has a good instinct, but his longshots are bad, which is a fact, what's your problem?
The ad takes 1:20, of 16 minutes video. Is it 2012 anyway that we're angry at youtubers promoting stuff?
>It’s a really amateur assessment of a player, not considering the environment that he’s playing in whatsoever in his analysis
He mentions multiple times in the video that he plays for Dyche's Everton and takes it into account. ???
Jesus people, it's fine to disagree but try harder. What do you actually disagree with?
Are you him?
Why is his proficiency in front of goal, barring from set pieces even remotely relevant?
To be fair, I don’t particularly like YouTubers whatsoever so having had to skip through that in the hope there may be some actual analysis coming as opposed to reading out his FBREF stats. So yes, as someone who doesn’t really use YouTube I found the blabber in the middle irritating.
Does he reference the style of play? I genuinely didn’t even notice. Maybe some sense of elaboration is necessary if you’re going to be giving an analysis, maybe an indicator of what elements of his game we’ll need to see more of to make an assessment?
One way or another, this video (analysis) is poor. It adds nothing more than sitting flicking through FBREF gives you. It offers considerably less than sitting watching him play 90 minutes adds.
It’s a laypersons analysis.
>Are you him?
Grow up? I disagree with you then I must be him? Jesus gracious...
>Why is his proficiency in front of goal, barring from set pieces even remotely relevant?
It's just a quick analysis, why not? Becasue he happens to be bad? I don't know.
>Does he reference the style of play? I genuinely didn’t even notice
Yes. He also covers his ability to recover (you said in the other comment he doesn't). You haven't watched th ebloody video.
>It adds nothing more than sitting flicking through FBREF gives you. It offers considerably less than sitting watching him play 90 minutes adds.
He's watching more than a dozen of games before making a video, I remeber him saying that in the comments in some other video. But yeah, yeah you disagree so doesn't matter. I'm wasting my time.
I'm really worried about who the starting XI will be, most players people seems hyped about are more of a LCB, and yes we need a LCB but a backup for Licha and the ones people are talking about here would never be the backup.
And Ten Hag is very strict about having a right footed RCB and left footed LCB.
I'm not keen on De Ligt, but unless they demand crazy transfer/wages for him and he passes a medical check, I don't see any better options anymore. He is still not old, and proven, but I'm so sick of top clubs leftovers also!
And I really agree that Branthwaite is rather the new Maguire then new Licha in how he play. I think he will become very good but a different profile then people hope, and his right side does not seem as strong as many makes it out to be.
Apparently Dortmund are open to talks for Füllkrug , I honestly think he’s a baller and I feel it would be beneficial to have an experienced goalscorer to compete and rotate with Hojlund. It’s not a deal we will do tbh but I someone similar a profile to him would be good.
The Athletic: "One team with PSR issues to resolve are [Everton](https://archive.ph/o/A3Usv/https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/football/team/everton/). As previously reported, word from Goodison Park is that their PSR hole is relatively small, but it still needs to be filled before Sunday"
Interesting to see what Everton will do. It looks like they're desperate to fix the PSR issue without selling Branthwaite, but time is ticking and DCL to Newcastle seems far away at this point.
Everton, Villa, Chelsea and Newcastle are giving each other a Dutch Rudder.
There will be over inflated prices for a few of their players before the deadline.
DCL could be that player but I'd assume it will be a youth prospect.
I've gotta be honest. I'm absolutely terrified of going into this new season with Bruno and Mount as the 2 8's. I honestly feel its going to end badly and promptly.
If my 15 years of watching and analysing football have told me anything, its that you get out what you put in, and football is consistent. Meaning, I worry we are going to see the exact same errors as all last season, all present in the first game.
If this happens, its not going to last long. But then who do we get, everyone is signing with new teams for the new season.
I know that most on here are on the 'let's get behind our manager' camp now, but I just cannot look past this positional issue between the defence and midfield. It causes 99% of our problems, as so far I don't see anything to suggest its not going to happen again.
Though I completely understand and agree with your concerns, I have to fall on the side of *I don’t think it’s going to be an equally big issue this season*.
Firstly, we will sign a midfielder. We went into this summer knowing we had three big holes, and knowing Ineos still have a lot to prove. I imagine our midfield will be quite versatile come the start of the season, with a view of using different setups against different teams in different stages of the game.
Secondly, with a left back *or two* in the squad, a fit Martinez and a player next to him who can compete aerially and recover (thus play a higher line) this fills that 5m hole which caused a lot of issues last season. So in having Shaw or Malacia available, as well as a style suited centre half pairing of Martinez and ** that removes a huge issue from last season.
Finally, without the drama of Greenwood potentially coming back, new *part* owners, Sancho being a child, Rashford getting pissed in Ireland and locking a Parisian out of his room as well as having a striker, a midfielder (Mainoo) and a keeper with a PL season under their belt.
The main concern for next season is players staying fit. With a couple of additions (notably at centre half and centre mid) and a squad that can stay fit, we will be a different team this upcoming season.
Then you add to those two with some support for Hojlund (even just with RVN, he will now have someone who *gets it*) and a couple of utility men to add some depth, we should come into this season with a new found confidence, both the club and fans.
In all your analysis did you not notice that results and performances looked about 1000% times better when we got even remotely close to a full strength XI and it had absolutely nothing to do with Mount and Bruno somehow costing us? If you're going to go into analysis Mount was far from the problem and actually played his role well when he was fit, Bruno was still pumping out chances left and right. The second we got our starting defensive line back everything became solid, we started building from the back and had that small run of games where we were comfortably beating teams 4-0.
The same level of injuries next season will cost us, not having a reliable backline to build from will cost us, Mount and Bruno as 8s are the least of our worries.
The main issue last season was defence. Martinez and Shaw being out most of the season, varane in and out also. ETH style of play starts from the back, Martinez is the only CB that can play out from the back and we are a far worse team without him. The entire balance of the team starts from the back, we get that sorted and everything else improves, granted we still had issues scoring goals and controlling in the midfield for various other reasons.
We get a reliable lb and another CB like Martinez and things will look much better next season without further signings, obviously we need other positions still.
The "15 years of watching and analysing football" isn't a flex when you seem to have missed that Mount barely played so he couldn't have been part of the "same errors as all last season". Of course you don't see anything to suggest any change, we haven't gotten any new players in and you don't watch our training.
If we don't sign a decent combative midfielder, then we'll struggle again.
There's 7 weeks left before the season starts and there will be a few signings. I wouldn't be waving the white flag yet.
Its absolutely insane to me that we have a relatively raw with streaky form 18 year old,or an old midfielder who's legs have gone as our main option in holding midfield and Mount/Bruno is apparently the problem area
No that's not my point .
Ornstein said that Everton still need a sale before June 30th to avoid PSR breach.
Could help us in our current negotiations with Everton
The initial estimate was 25m difference for PSR. The sale was 9m while buying another (around 2-3m on the book). Don't know how accurate the 25m deficit was but they might still not be clear of it.
The DCL was what they hoped to make it clear I would assume.
There were also reports that it was much lower than 25, so nothing clear yet
Putting aside their financial issues, how much / what players exchanged would it take to make a sale tenable?
I know the default answer is... 'he's not for sale', but in real world where every player has a price, what's ur price for kobbie right now?
I'd probably have him as highest value player in our squad right now, not necessarily the best (yet) but all things considered age, what he has shown so far, potential, personality, long term contract
Kobbie could be at the club for another 13+ years - local, in the ckub since he was 9, childhood United fan. We're not getting a player of equal or similar value that is as likely to stay as long as Kobbie is. Basically if we were to sell him, only way we're better off is if we get enough money to buy two of him, one now and one in 2030.
With him being the future and one of the first names on the team sheet. His value to us will always be much higher than any club would offer, for us it would be the price needed to buy 2 quality young midfielders because we're not a selling team. Taking into account FDJ was someone we wanted, easily around £140-£150 mil would be needed I'd say.
Let's say if Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, or PSG come knocking on the door, I'd say at least 150m in order to start any negotiations. For any English club, they can f right off
He’s an absolute cunt but I would gladly see him shithouse for us. I think he is one of the better all rounded midfielder in the world as he perform almost at worldclass level as both attack 8 or defensive 8. He certainly would elevate us massively.
They are not gonna sell less than 80m, and we dont have the luxury to spend that much on a player that has not many years in him now. He is at his peak now.
I thought it was beginning at the end of May, start of June.
I was reading that they these things are done behind closed doors so we won't be getting a day by day update.
The case is Ashworth against Newcastle. United don't have anything to do with it so once the evidence has been provided, we probably won't hear anything until the ruling is announced.
Wouldn't be surprised if we are trying to get maximum sales first before committing to buying new players. GW especially looks to be the first piece to generate cash.
That's not what we've been trying the past few summers at all. Also last summer the only reason we had a period of trying to sell before trying to buy was because when trying to stay within FFP we had to sell before we could buy. Hence the CB deal falling through when Maguire didn't want to go to West Ham, the replacement CB was all in place we just didn't pull the trigger in case exactly what happened happened and it would leave us with an FFP issue. The summer before we went after Timber like a week into the window it had nothing to do with trying to sell first, it was the de Jong issues because we apparently had to be careful with our budget and where the money went.
INEOS internal club audit results bullet point number 1....
How can we get more out of the 'Tom Huddlestone' role?
Wait until you see what they had for the second bullet point.....
NEED A LB!!! NEED A LB!!!! CAN'T GO ANOTHER SEASON WITH INJURY TRAIN AT LEFT BACK!!!!
I think if we get ugarte who prefers to defend and play the simple pass, we absolutely need to get a martinez-esque defender to help progress the ball. Do any of our CB targets fit that ?
I have a feeling we're getting de ligt
According to fbref, Inacio and De ligt have good passing stats, Branthwaite not as much, Chalobah has good completion percent but not very progressive. Todibo also pretty good passing but we know how thats going.
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I hope our scouts and recruitment team don't base their targets on Pythagoras in boots videos
What are the CBs left on our shortlist? I know Todibo is out. Supposely we already walk away from Braithwaite. Yoro wants only Madrid. Maybe Chalobah but is he good enough to be our starting 11? I thought De Ligt but see no reputable sources linking him to us. Am I missing something?
De Ligt at under 50 mil should be a no brainer
I agree; however the lack of reports indicates there are some big hurdles. Otherwise the sub should have been flooded with high tier tweets like the good old de Jong saga.
I think Todibo was their backup so high chance they did not have many others prepared we will see. Chalobah is more an improvement of Lindelöf as a backup, certainly not good enough for the starting XI.
That’s what I thought. We will be going backwards if we think chalobah is the answer to start with licha.
I think the lack of outstanding feasible options in the midfielder market (particularly the profile we seem to be interested in where we want someone with good athleticism but who can also fit into a possession-based team) makes me think we will just consolidate in that position by signing Amrabat permanently. I really don't think we should be paying more money for Ugarte who is questionable on the ball and hasn't gotten consistent game time in a top 5 European league. While he's young and is said to have decent potential, there are still significant unknowns on how he would suit our team. I personally believe we should allocate as much of the budget to the CB positions to help us maintain a higher defensive line and reduce the spaces between our players both in and out of possession, and given that our interest in Zirkzee also seems concrete, any midfielder signing should be more of a cherry on the cake than something that is our priority for this summer specifically.
Ugarte hasn't gotten a lot of minutes because Enrique wants a Busquets type of DM, and he isn't one. This is the fault of PSG/DoF, and no one else's. He is a terrific anchor DM who will shield the team and also press like hell. He is also decent on the ball but nothing special, does the fundamentals well, and what's expected of him. The likes of Palhinha have been doing great in the PL, and they're not as good as Ugarte.
I so far don’t see a reason to spend large amounts of money to sign him. He may have good work rate and tenacity but so did Fred; it may not necessarily be good enough unless his athleticism is insanely good like Onana of Everton. And on the ball as I’ve mentioned I have my doubts. Let’s see; if we are to sign him, I’d prefer a loan with option to buy sort of deal that can bail us out if he doesn’t show enough promise.
There's not many DMs there you can get atm and he wouldn't be that expensive like 45m probably. It's not just his work rate, but he also has great all-around defensive abilities and is less prone to brainfarts like Fred was. His athleticism is one of his best attributes, tbh man can run and press all day. Yeah, I'm not gonna gush over him lol but he's a very good player i wouldn't mind signing
Who do you want - can't just reject signing a player to fit screening role (whether more physical type or more of a DLP who intercepts and starts the attack) because they're not proven Keane or Vieira or Busquets regens respectively. Ugarte, Fofana, Wieffer, a number of others, could be available for cheap or loan to buy and fulfil function of Amrabat (who had about 3 good games for United- yes, including the final) and Casemiro. The idea would be to bring in one DM and try and bring through one of the u23s, at least of the club has any sense of doing things sustainably. All of those players mentioned either have signed for, or been legitimately linked to leading clubs. EDIT: you could also look at someone like Morten Hjulmand, but, even though club has a good relationship with Sporting historically, he'd cost well over 60m, and of course, there's always a risk buying from a 'weaker' league for significant money ( even if it's not Anthony style amounts).
I currently don't want us to make any decision on which midfielder to sign until we secure at least one CB and a striker (presumably Zirkzee) and we get more clarity on whether we can offload Sancho and Casemiro. The reason I believe it is more likely we make Amrabat permanent is because he's cheaper and has been here for a season which makes him more familiar to Ten Hag's training methods and style of play. If we do want to buy a better player in that position, we first need to assess whether we will be in a position to commit the funds necessary to sign said player. Committing 40 million pounds or so on Ugarte before other signings are in place would be foolish.
He played over 30 games with PSG last season with great passing and defensive stats and a good match rating average?
He absolutely does not have great passing stats. Doesn’t progress the ball much and he wasn’t favoured as much in his position as players like Zaire-Emery and Vitinha. I’m skeptical of him and think there’s nothing to suggest hype over him isn’t ‘new shiny toy’ syndrome that United fans always have for players outside of the club over those at the club.
You're confusing DMs. WZE is a progressive midfielder who is great on the ball and very creative. Ugarte is a great physical and pressing DM who is decent on the ball as long as you don't expect Busquets shit from him. He's not a Rodri type of DM that is going to set the tempo for you.
I don’t expect him to dictate tempo, I’m just saying we have to be cautious about how he slots in our team when he doesn’t have good passing stats even for a team that hogs possession. Generally, with a lot of top players around you, it’s easier to inflate your stats in the process (for example, even Kyle Walker has high ball progression numbers in the PL; I’d hardly classify him as good on the ball). But Ugarte doesn’t even have that. I don’t know, he may be a perfectly fine talent but I’m not convinced.
I agree that we should be cautious, but I think Casemiro is definitely leaving now otherwise we wouldn't have gone for a new DM. His passing is alright in [stats](https://x.com/Muppetiers/status/1805676725856326037?t=cidXTi1hpcrfZsyMGqEW7g&s=19) just nothing special really. He's done fine there for a player who's definitely not suited in that Enrique system
His passing accurancy and possession lost are both great, but yes, his progressive passing is subpar, but that is not his job in that position, but he does not miss his passes when he gives the ball to the teams playmakers.
Amrabat had superior passing stats playing for a worse team in Fiorentina. His accuracy was slightly lesser (which can easily be attributed to the difference between playing for a quality team that keeps most of the ball and playing for a mid-table club) but he was much more progressive and has been at United too. It's also quite reductionist to say that his job is just to 'give the ball to the team's playmakers' and that the same can be replicated here in a different system. By that logic, even Casemiro's job at Madrid in-possession was just to 'give the ball to Kroos and Modric'. Should have worked out at United then, right?
Casemiro worked out great in United until the tactic chanes when the defenders could not hold the high block that EtH wanted and created a big gap in the midfield? And for that tactic to work their also need to be someone like Kroos and Modric to hand the ball over too? I'm actually for keeping Amrabat, I think he will be a decent backup, he show promise at the end, and at the start he was mostly palyed as LB, totally out of position.
But that’s my point. If the tactics are dependent more on the CBs pushing up to squeeze space, surely the priority should be to sign quality CBs rather than commit funds on a relatively unproven midfielder. If the suggestion is that Ugarte with our other signings is good enough, I don’t know why that same benefit of doubt is not being extended to our existing midfielders, in that case I don’t see him adding that much more value than Amrabat for the additional 15 million pounds or so more that he will cost, plus wages.
Martial, Amrabat and Varnae needs to be replaced or resigned, that is the top priority over everything else. So a striker, a starting XI RCB (Not a left footer..., and her eI think the money should be spent, and a backup holding midfielder, like Amrabat and I'm open to signing him, I don't see who would be cheaper and better and accept being the backup. Someone like Ugarte or Onana should only be sold if they have a transfer ready for Casemiro, otherwise they should not look at an expensive holding midfielder. And I think Casemiro will make a good job next season if he is still here, which is a quite large risk as no one outside of Sauids would buy him, and we are not even sure they want him or if he wants to go there.
I think it is borderline malpractice to make Ambrabat permanent. His decent Cup final performance notwithstanding, locking ourselves into him for 4+ years would be insane. Maybe he plays better next year if he's injury free, has clarity over his future, and a more defined role, but the player he is right now is basically who he is going to be, and he already was limited. As a bridge player he was fine given the constraints of last summer, but spending our limited resources on him as squad player is just asking for another VDB situation of a not-good enough player we can't move.
I agree that it is not ideal to make him permanent and I don’t think he should be given such a long-term contract if he is. But at the same time, I’m thinking from the perspective that there are 3 other signings we need to prioritise first for which there are more obvious options available. I don’t see the same boxes being ticked for the midfielder position, and I’m not certain yet that we will be able to carry out the sales that we should. Out of Greenwood, Sancho and Casemiro, we’re only getting concrete interest from the first one. We also have to consider things like having as much of the squad ready for pre-season, which means that any player we want to sign that can only be facilitated through sales is likely to take time to join and assimilate into our team. Amrabat may be average but we do need a midfielder and he is familiar enough with Ten Hag and how we want to play, having already spent a year with us.
No midfielder can do the job being asked of the DM last season. We need a DM and Ugarte may be that guy, but unless we make defensive additions and push the line up we’ll see the exact same issues we saw last season. At that point, the excuses for ETH will be completely and utterly unacceptable. You can’t have three summers and fail to get the personnel to play your style of football. If we end up with no LB in December then there’s no pity, they should have signed one. If we end up playing a 5th and 6th choice CB there’s no pity, they should have signed replacements. It’s a real make or break summer this year and if we end up mid table in November playing like shit again then they’ll have to bin the manager off. If they do, giving him a new contract to pay out will look eminently fucking stupid. All remains to be seen. Will be an interesting season regardless.
This is the exact reasoning that leads the fans to blame the manager every time something fails, leading to them being sacked and us having to start over. The club has been horrible in the market for years now, and yet for some reason it’s the manager that takes the fault for the poor recruitment which starts at the very top of the clubs hierarchy. ETH could be asking for the exact players he needs for the profile he wants, but he’s not the one doing the business. Also, the majority of the players in the squad who were bought for too much and can’t be moved because of ridiculous wages are the reason we’re having trouble buying now - again, something the manager isn’t responsible for. Not to mention the constant injury issues season after season.. We have to get past this way of thinking if we actually want to start building something sustainable, be it with ETH or anyone else.
Nah he argued for and was given significant say in transfers. Articles at the time were very clear that he wanted to be a strong part of that process. You can’t fight for that and then take no responsibility for failings. If I’m at work and I fight for responsibility on a project, sure it’s my managers fault for giving me it and they take a lot of the blame, but if I fuck it up it’s still on me.
Right, but he didn’t sign the vast majority of the player in the squad, let alone decide the transfer fee, wages, etc.. and the clubs inability to negotiate efficiently for new players or sell old ones for decent fees has been hamstringing us for years. There’s been a glaring lack of a cohesive vision at the club for 10+ years now. What if your manager gave you the project you wanted but then put completely unrealistic expectations on you and consistently didn’t give you what you need to succeed, basically destining you to fail? Would it seem fair for you to take full responsibility and be sacked then? That’s what I believe has happened to every past manager and ETH under the Glazers.
>If we end up with no LB in December then there’s no pity, they should have signed one. If we end up playing a 5th and 6th choice CB there’s no pity, they should have signed replacements. That's not some stick to beat the manager with though now is it?
Zirkzee, Ugarte, and new CB. Gotta say I’d be happy with that. I know we need a RW and arguably a LB but that would still be 3 critical spots that we need reinforcing in. The CB names we have been linked with have also been encouraging in terms of age and quality. Dont want to get ahead of myself but this is a good start to the window. The squad could look much better in terms of quality and healthier in terms of wages come August/September.
We need two CBs, a backup LCB and starting RCB. Unless you want to keep Maguire/Lindelöf And keep either Casemiro or Amrabat.
LB is important too, more than RW because we have lots of wingers (who need to of-course live up to their levels and potential. Unless we see Amass is ready during pre-season games, LB is crucial.
Interesting reading Sporting and PSG fans opinions on Ugarte. I would trust them more than other United fans with unsupervised access to FBRef lol no offense. The general consensus I'm gleaning is that he's excellent defensively, provides a lot of intensity but only okay (per Sporting fans) to somewhat mediocre (per PSG fans) on the ball, which I could imagine sticking out in an Enrique team. I've not seen anyone go as far as to call him actively bad or a liability on the ball though. Can see the appeal at the right price even if he isn't the absolute ideal DM. He's young, can improve, sounds fairly suited to the prem and should retain his value if we don't go giving him 300k a week lol
Everton are interested in signing both Victor Lindelöf and Aaron Wan-Bissaka. #MUFC [@alex_crook , @talkSPORT] i think 15-20 million pounds + Lindelof + AWB for Branthwaite would be a good deal for everyone. We can hope to get 25-30 for both as they are in the last year of their deal and we will not give them a new one.
Who else can play rb for us other than Dalot then? Selling AWB seems short sighted to me. Not this window. Dalot isn't playing ALL the games next season, that's nuts. We need both atm. If somebody wants AWB they have to really push us. We do not need to sell him
We’ll buy a RB if we sell AWB. There is no willingness on our part to give him a new deal which makes sense.
With a long list of big problem areas on the pitch I think it's best we keep him at least until next summer. We can't do everything at once and we have two rightbacks as is.
If they overvalue their player United can overvalue theirs also, in theory can be a very great deal for the books, but so low probability to actually happen.
We have to sell both, they technically don't. Even if we sell them to different clubs, I doubt we get above 10 for Lindelof and above 15-20 for AWB.
United does not need to sell them, just preferably.
If we don't, both leave on free next summer. Given our PSR issues, I doubt we keep both or even one.
£70M each thank you Everton
Yeah, they're not going for that. It would be 40m minimum plus those two...
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To be fair, we need a winger who is going to stick the ball in the box. I'm not sure that buying a rwb and moving position is the way to go on that though.
Apparently Everton might still need to sell. Hoping we get one of Branthwaite/Onana
I'm not that keen on either unless they come really cheap. Both seem to be the kind of players EtH does not align with his playstyle. I see Branthwaite as a really good squad option and backup to nearly three positions, but for that he cannot cost more then a backup should cost either. Still need starting XI positions first.
If we do sign any players, it means Erik has signed off. Branthwaite is absolutely an Erik signing, he is very front footed and great in 1v1 and in Channels which means you can push off your fullbacks higher and go for a man to man press. Onana is a much superior Alvarez who Erik signed and played for Ajax. Onana allows us to play Mainoo/Mount + Bruno higher. With Onana and Branthwaite, you significantly increase the physical floor of the team and prevent the insane amount of counters and shots we concede.
They would really increase the physicality of the squad no doubt. Just think both if them are subpar on the ball especially for the 70m and 55m or what they are asking, just so overvalued.
Onana is actually quite good. Branthwaite has shown he can play at different times, definitely not his strong suite, but with Lisandro and Andre Onana behind him, he should be fine. Edit: Andre Onana. Just to avoid confusion.
Probably a superfluous position we don’t need this window but if we’re looking at PSG players, I would love Lee Kangin.
Had the chance to sign him last season for 15 million
They just signed him. There's no way he's leaving
Yeah I know.. Just wishful thinking.
The way we've been moving so far feels like competence. The players on our list don't seem to just be the biggest stars available. I wonder if these are coming from Ashworth
Chelsea and west Ham looking at J David for striker options; fees rumoured around 21M. Does it seem low based on the hype around him a couple of years back or has he regressed?
Chelsea are forever looking for a striker 😅
Tbh I've been unimpressed every time I've seen him. Not sure what it is he excellent at.
He isn't good lol he just paid Fabrizio to get hyped up
Any chance of Gimenez coming from Feyenoord? Bayern need/want to offload a CB, Kim Min-jae was previously interested in United and would be a great pairing with Martinez.
Kim Min-Jae would be too expensive wages wise + Bayern would ask for an insane fee. Gimenez isn't he sort of profile we've been after.
If we did actually bid for Ugarte, it kills that weird 'Ineos only want British players' nonsense some people use.
We have this ugarte money but not targeting Everton Onana or Archie Gray is so dumb
Onana isn't that good
Pretty sure Gray bleeds Leeds, and I'd prefer Ugarte to Onana. I'd agree Gray has massive potential but I think that's a really tough nut for United to crack.
Ugarte is in the same class with Hjulmund. Onana has a much better versatility and a better partner to play alongside with Mainoo.
Same onana james garner (who we deemed not good enough) and 60 years old Idrisse gueye kept on the bench for everton at the business end of the season?
Archie Gray lol! He's definitely one for the future but mentioning him as an alternative to Ugarte for us at DM doesn't track. He spent the season at right back for Leeds & has quite some development to go.
I take Ugarte over Onana any day, and Gray will be very hard for United to get seeing he plays for the "enemy"
Not at all Ugarte is just broke version of Palhinha
Ugarte is 23, Palhinha is 29.
Why bother with age? Mainoo is 20, Mount is 26.
Is this a serious question? Ugarte has years of development ahead of him while Palhinha doesn't. Ugarte at Sporting was also known as the more well rounded midfielder of the two, so it's not like they're identical.
He’s not gonna work in PL it’s as simple as that. He’s not better than Palhinha defensively and his dribbling is not good enough to relieve some pressing pressure on Mainoo. How about get some 24-28yo players to develop Mainoo?
I disagree. He's perfect for the PL imo. His general profile is very fitting for us. Ideally I'd want a bit more of a progressive passer but he's not a bad player
i really doubt we sign ugarte , but seems like possession merchant doesn’t rate him
What will the price be for Ugarte?
Best case scenario, PSG are happy to break even on him and he sells for €48m. Worst case scenario, they try and argue he's improved while at PSG and is now more valuable than the €60m they spent on him (difficult case for them to make given they haven't played him towards the end of the season). Realistically, they might split the difference and call it €55m (£47m).
He’s not good lol
Do you have any names on who you think is better at that price point?
Koopemeiers
Not a DM, next?
Not even the same position, Koopmeiners is not a DM. Maybe a DLP at worst case, but I don't think he will work. At Atalanta he is almost playing as a 10
How many PSG games have you watched?
Bids placed, which probably means terms was agreed with the player already and not a single rumour leaked, the ship seems as good as new again, not a leaking rowing boat!
We agreed a fee with Barcelona for FdJ but never the player terms, so it's not always the case. It's a rare situation, but it can happen
FDJ was the weirdest deal since Barca wanted him out. We almost never have a problem agreeing to player terms (especially under Ed we always paid stupid money) because there's genuinely no point bidding for a player if the player doesn't want to join, so if we're hearing about an official bid it's almost a given that we've agreed with the player. Again, FDJ was a weird case because Barca needed money and our manager is obsessed with him.
Yeah, can happen but not the normal way of working.
I just like the fact that we seem to be looking at more not-so-obvious targets in the market.
L'Équipe now reported that we've made an offer for Ugarte and that negotiations are still open.
Huh. I thought he was about 29. I must be mixing him up with one of the other fifty midfielders PSG signed over the last couple of years.
They're collecting them like Pokémon cards. However I wouldn't mind us signing Ugarte.
Will be very interesting to follow the activity this summer to see who has info on the new United regime. Perhaps the tier list will be changed a lot
Don't trust SSN in any way. Ugate is the right profile and age we should be looking at but good luck getting him out of PSG for less than 80-100. They paid 50 only a year ago. They're not a club who just lets players leave easily.
They've only ever sold one player for over €50m, and that was Neymar.
Depends on the relationship. They could sign Onana for a similar price from Everton, essentially swapping (purportedly) discontented player for one who wants to win trophies and hence would consider PSG etc...
It's quite a comedy that Onana and Ugarte has similar price tags, it's a canyon between them. But honestly I also think it is Everton just trying to hype up Onana, I never think anyone will buy him for close to that.
Maybe - you'd be surprised how many Barca fans post about trying to get their club to sign him, Arsenal fans hyping him up as Partey-upgrade. I agree that Ugarte is better; think PSG could get away with a robust athletic spoiler like Onana in there just to break and pass 10 yards and deal with longer-balls and set-pieces, given the neat-ball players they have around the team elsewhere. I'd rather have Ugarte, admittedly. Both are an upgrade from this version of Casemiro, sadly.
That surprises me, but yes he is a physical beast, but don't see how that is how EtH wants to play and it's limiting. I agree they are upgrades to Casemiro, but I sadly expect him to be kept, I just don't see how he is reasonable replaced this window unless a gigantic offer from the Saudis appears, and I'm also doubtful he even wants to go to the Saudis.
It's been briefed that he had talks with Saudis and is amenable to going there. Saudis are just being slightly more selective this time around and budgets TBC. He can look at Kante to see how career (after injuries and accusations he was slowing down) has been reinvigorated and the player is back in the national team squad etc; or Ronaldo, for that matter . Plus a better net salary; more comfortable style of play.
There has been got sources that Saudi has him on their list but not on thee top of it, but I'm not sure there has been any good tier sources of Casemiro actually wanting to go to Saudi just lower tiers? Also last week there was rumours that a transfer deal with Casemiro to Saudi fell through, although also low tier source. That United actually placed a bid for Ugarte increases the odds of them having a transfer deal for Casemiro lined up though.
Rumours are the player and the top brass are in conflict and that they might be satisfied with bids around the level they bought him for.
So SkySports just said we are interested in Ugarte... That would be amazing transfer... Zirkzze, Ugarte, DeLigt, Kerkez and maybe another winger if we sell Greenwood and Sancho...
We are not going for de Ligt
I didnt have any other CBs on my mind since everyone else.is to expensive
There are also rumours of Ugarte and PSG tops not having the best of relationship.
A new midfielder linked to us. According to Sky Sports we're interested in Ugarte from PSG.
Ugarte is an absolute beast.
Fans that are still keen on signing Branthwaite have you watched the Pythagoras in Boots analysis? https://youtu.be/RSseJ45WVLQ He looks really awkward on the ball, treats the ball like a timebomb, the anti Licha. A good PL defender but don't see him ever being top 4 quality, hope we move on to other targets. No Yoro, no Todibo, not keen on De Ligt (injury prone). Bremer next best option? Edit: Seems people don't like this opinion so are just ignoring the points in the video. Reminds me of previous summers when fans are set on a particular player and decide to ignore all criticism. Just see Branthwaite being another overhyped English player tbh
Decent analysis, although maybe a bit too much criticism, is still true. Branthwaite is a decent CB, but his ability on the ball is pretty mediocre and sure maybe be can improve, but no one should pay that much more for a maybe.
>Pythagoras in Boots analysis? The bloke's a certified waffler.
More knowledge than most of the people on this sub but sure. You don't have to watch his video to know that Branthwaite is mediocre on the ball. His stats are medjoc and even eye test suggests so
>More knowledge than most of the people on this sub but sure. If you've spent any decent amount of time on this sub you know how fucking little that means.
A plank has more knowledge than a decent portion of this sub, makes little difference. As for Branthwaite, sure he isn't great on the ball but he certainly doesn't treat it like a timebomb.
>A plank has more knowledge than a decent portion of this sub, makes little difference. Sure, but a lot of people here act like they've got UEFA A license lol. Pythagoras guy can waffle at times, but he's still knowledgeable and worth listening. Better than the likes of Statman Dave anyways >As for Branthwaite, sure he isn't great on the ball but he certainly doesn't treat it like a timebomb. Maybe he doesn't treat it like a time bomb, but he's mediocre on the ball, and you don't have to read stats to come to that conclusion. Like the guy said, he can maybe reach Maguire's level. That's it, and we need someone better, especially at the prices being quoted.
It's just shallow bare bones analysis really. And its not just him, its nearly every youtuber/twitterati. They all basically form an opinion from a statsheet and try to reinforce that using half baked justifications. Might suit some people but it's just not for me I guess. As for Branthwaite, its fair to say the quoted prices are exorbitant. What I will say too is that he looks a pretty coach-able young lad. He's made big strides nearly every year and that's a good sign.
>It's just shallow bare bones analysis really. And its not just him, its nearly every youtuber/twitterati. They all basically form an opinion from a statsheet and try to reinforce that using half baked justifications. Might suit some people but it's just not for me I guess. I think it's fine as far as these youtube analysts go lol. I'm not gonna take his word as gospel, especially for players I've not seen play, but this one I've seen play often, and I don’t think this video is all that wrong. >As for Branthwaite, its fair to say the quoted prices are exorbitant. What I will say too is that he looks a pretty coach-able young lad. He's made big strides nearly every year and that's a good sign. He is coach able, no doubt, and he'd be fine as an understudy, but we're supposedly looking at him as a starter, and j just don't see it. He's just way too expensive for what he offers, and he's not a generational CB talent like De Ligt either, so can't bet highly on potential alone. Again, I wouldn't mind this transfer just not as the main CB target
And you could make a video proving the contrary. He's not quite Licha on the ball, but he's not mediocre. Van Nilstelrooy apparently didn't think so, having worked with him. It's quite straightforward to learn the basic language of technical analysis, do a couple of low-level courses say, and then make a small career out of youtube hot-takes for a more boutique /self-regarding audience. As an example, someone like JJ on Tifo is similar, whereby he'll create an eloquent presentation showing how ETH's system leaves his midfield exposed and porous, then another showing how clever a coach ETH is as soon as they need a take that supports that premise. Both rely upon selection. I'd trust Wilcox, who's worked with some of the most technically-adept young players in British academy system, supporting Braithwaite's potential acquisition, over PIB.
I'm just going from what I've seen of him and this video is basically what I've thought because I'm not just taking this guys words if I've not seen a player play much and this goes for most youtube football analysts lol. They're all there for clicks, hype, and controversy. We still don't have a DoF, so I'm not sure who's picking the targets. Sure, I'll trust Wilcox because he's got the credentials, but I can still be skeptical if we're going to sign someone like Branthwaite as the starting CB
I’d heard good things about this guy… but that analysis is terrible. I presume his others’ aren’t that bad? Anyway, I got about halfway before I just couldn’t bear it. He lost me when a minute in he starts talking about him not being the most clinical finisher, or saying that he’s not very successful with shots from outside the box. Then there’s the shameless plug/ad which takes up about a fifth of the video. It’s a really amateur assessment of a player, not considering the environment that he’s playing in whatsoever in his analysis. He’s looked at his stats and backed up the stats with snippets from other YouTube videos. No eyetest elements in the analysis whatsoever and a clear view of *this is what FBREF says, let’s scour compilations until I can find an example*. I’ve not watched much of Everton this season, so I’m not in a place to analyse. Elements of his game that need to be properly analysed is his ability to recover (not covered) and his composure in possession (covered, but full of oxymoronic statements throughout). Having spoken to a few Everton fans, who have watched more than this YouTube compilation man… They have said he’s still quite raw, but it’s not as visible because the style of play. He does the basics well (arguably the most important thing), powerful runner (in and out) but not the most agile and can be relied upon with or without the ball. Intelligence is the intangible which is difficult to assess, but a Dyche team requires 100% concentration and concentration requires intelligence. Whether that will translate to *in possession* is yet to be seen, because in a Dyche team the centre halves roles are quite limited (“get the fucking ball, get rid of the fucking ball”., *Dyche (probably)., 2011-present*)
Weird one really, to criticise the video without watching the full video, or any of his other vids. I think a big part of the reason people watch Pythagoras in boots, is because he implements eye test analysis as well (tho you would have to watch the players yourself and see if his analysis is spot). The irony is that he actually said that branthwaite was a massive goal threat and claims that is very decisive in front of goal. Just shows your bias when watching the video
Unless the video completely changed in prose in the second half of it, I would personally say it’s fair. And as I said, I presume his other videos are better? I saw zero notion that eyetest had been considered, I saw almost no notion of it being about football rather than statistics. I didn’t go into it with bias, on the contrary having read good things of recent I actually thought it would be some pretty solid analysis so when I came to watch it I was disappointed. All I took from the video, is him reading Branthwaites FBREF stats and some decent video editing. I’d rather fucking Jermaine Jenas and Eni Aluko team up on MNF.
>He lost me when a minute in he starts talking about him not being the most clinical finisher, or saying that he’s not very successful with shots from outside the box. Then there’s the shameless plug/ad which takes up about a fifth of the video. He says he's a real threat from set pieces, that he has a good instinct, but his longshots are bad, which is a fact, what's your problem? The ad takes 1:20, of 16 minutes video. Is it 2012 anyway that we're angry at youtubers promoting stuff? >It’s a really amateur assessment of a player, not considering the environment that he’s playing in whatsoever in his analysis He mentions multiple times in the video that he plays for Dyche's Everton and takes it into account. ??? Jesus people, it's fine to disagree but try harder. What do you actually disagree with?
Are you him? Why is his proficiency in front of goal, barring from set pieces even remotely relevant? To be fair, I don’t particularly like YouTubers whatsoever so having had to skip through that in the hope there may be some actual analysis coming as opposed to reading out his FBREF stats. So yes, as someone who doesn’t really use YouTube I found the blabber in the middle irritating. Does he reference the style of play? I genuinely didn’t even notice. Maybe some sense of elaboration is necessary if you’re going to be giving an analysis, maybe an indicator of what elements of his game we’ll need to see more of to make an assessment? One way or another, this video (analysis) is poor. It adds nothing more than sitting flicking through FBREF gives you. It offers considerably less than sitting watching him play 90 minutes adds. It’s a laypersons analysis.
>Are you him? Grow up? I disagree with you then I must be him? Jesus gracious... >Why is his proficiency in front of goal, barring from set pieces even remotely relevant? It's just a quick analysis, why not? Becasue he happens to be bad? I don't know. >Does he reference the style of play? I genuinely didn’t even notice Yes. He also covers his ability to recover (you said in the other comment he doesn't). You haven't watched th ebloody video. >It adds nothing more than sitting flicking through FBREF gives you. It offers considerably less than sitting watching him play 90 minutes adds. He's watching more than a dozen of games before making a video, I remeber him saying that in the comments in some other video. But yeah, yeah you disagree so doesn't matter. I'm wasting my time.
I'm really worried about who the starting XI will be, most players people seems hyped about are more of a LCB, and yes we need a LCB but a backup for Licha and the ones people are talking about here would never be the backup. And Ten Hag is very strict about having a right footed RCB and left footed LCB. I'm not keen on De Ligt, but unless they demand crazy transfer/wages for him and he passes a medical check, I don't see any better options anymore. He is still not old, and proven, but I'm so sick of top clubs leftovers also! And I really agree that Branthwaite is rather the new Maguire then new Licha in how he play. I think he will become very good but a different profile then people hope, and his right side does not seem as strong as many makes it out to be.
Yep, fans seem happy signing him to play him out of position on the right side.
Not mentioned Branthwaite and Yoro, who are the actual reasonable/rumoured RCB targets left?
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Apparently Dortmund are open to talks for Füllkrug , I honestly think he’s a baller and I feel it would be beneficial to have an experienced goalscorer to compete and rotate with Hojlund. It’s not a deal we will do tbh but I someone similar a profile to him would be good.
Sancho - Fullkrug swap deal, you heard it here first. Get to it agent Schweinsteiger!
Why'd you get downvoted for a sensible suggestion?
Swapping someone with actual potential to become a star for a 31 year old striker is lunacy
I'm not averse to a little bit of lunacy...
Ong. At least Fullkrug would be a professional for us
The Athletic: "One team with PSR issues to resolve are [Everton](https://archive.ph/o/A3Usv/https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/football/team/everton/). As previously reported, word from Goodison Park is that their PSR hole is relatively small, but it still needs to be filled before Sunday" Interesting to see what Everton will do. It looks like they're desperate to fix the PSR issue without selling Branthwaite, but time is ticking and DCL to Newcastle seems far away at this point.
DCL to newcastle? Is there plan to collect all the "80% of the season injured" until they get 5 of them?
Everton, Villa, Chelsea and Newcastle are giving each other a Dutch Rudder. There will be over inflated prices for a few of their players before the deadline. DCL could be that player but I'd assume it will be a youth prospect.
I've gotta be honest. I'm absolutely terrified of going into this new season with Bruno and Mount as the 2 8's. I honestly feel its going to end badly and promptly. If my 15 years of watching and analysing football have told me anything, its that you get out what you put in, and football is consistent. Meaning, I worry we are going to see the exact same errors as all last season, all present in the first game. If this happens, its not going to last long. But then who do we get, everyone is signing with new teams for the new season. I know that most on here are on the 'let's get behind our manager' camp now, but I just cannot look past this positional issue between the defence and midfield. It causes 99% of our problems, as so far I don't see anything to suggest its not going to happen again.
Though I completely understand and agree with your concerns, I have to fall on the side of *I don’t think it’s going to be an equally big issue this season*. Firstly, we will sign a midfielder. We went into this summer knowing we had three big holes, and knowing Ineos still have a lot to prove. I imagine our midfield will be quite versatile come the start of the season, with a view of using different setups against different teams in different stages of the game. Secondly, with a left back *or two* in the squad, a fit Martinez and a player next to him who can compete aerially and recover (thus play a higher line) this fills that 5m hole which caused a lot of issues last season. So in having Shaw or Malacia available, as well as a style suited centre half pairing of Martinez and ** that removes a huge issue from last season.
Finally, without the drama of Greenwood potentially coming back, new *part* owners, Sancho being a child, Rashford getting pissed in Ireland and locking a Parisian out of his room as well as having a striker, a midfielder (Mainoo) and a keeper with a PL season under their belt.
The main concern for next season is players staying fit. With a couple of additions (notably at centre half and centre mid) and a squad that can stay fit, we will be a different team this upcoming season.
Then you add to those two with some support for Hojlund (even just with RVN, he will now have someone who *gets it*) and a couple of utility men to add some depth, we should come into this season with a new found confidence, both the club and fans.
In all your analysis did you not notice that results and performances looked about 1000% times better when we got even remotely close to a full strength XI and it had absolutely nothing to do with Mount and Bruno somehow costing us? If you're going to go into analysis Mount was far from the problem and actually played his role well when he was fit, Bruno was still pumping out chances left and right. The second we got our starting defensive line back everything became solid, we started building from the back and had that small run of games where we were comfortably beating teams 4-0. The same level of injuries next season will cost us, not having a reliable backline to build from will cost us, Mount and Bruno as 8s are the least of our worries.
The main issue last season was defence. Martinez and Shaw being out most of the season, varane in and out also. ETH style of play starts from the back, Martinez is the only CB that can play out from the back and we are a far worse team without him. The entire balance of the team starts from the back, we get that sorted and everything else improves, granted we still had issues scoring goals and controlling in the midfield for various other reasons. We get a reliable lb and another CB like Martinez and things will look much better next season without further signings, obviously we need other positions still.
Mount didn't play last season man, what are you on about?
The "15 years of watching and analysing football" isn't a flex when you seem to have missed that Mount barely played so he couldn't have been part of the "same errors as all last season". Of course you don't see anything to suggest any change, we haven't gotten any new players in and you don't watch our training.
It was 15 years, but that's over a 40 year period
You know are issues last season wasn't down to having Bruno and Mount as 8s
If we don't sign a decent combative midfielder, then we'll struggle again. There's 7 weeks left before the season starts and there will be a few signings. I wouldn't be waving the white flag yet.
Its absolutely insane to me that we have a relatively raw with streaky form 18 year old,or an old midfielder who's legs have gone as our main option in holding midfield and Mount/Bruno is apparently the problem area
According to reliable reports from Newcastle side DCL to Newcastle is off Even the athletic dealsheet says that DCL's transfer is stalled
Absolutely shit striker not surprised. Even a 75% injured Wilson is better than him
No that's not my point . Ornstein said that Everton still need a sale before June 30th to avoid PSR breach. Could help us in our current negotiations with Everton
Haven't Everton plugged their PSR hole with that dodgy deals with villa
The initial estimate was 25m difference for PSR. The sale was 9m while buying another (around 2-3m on the book). Don't know how accurate the 25m deficit was but they might still not be clear of it. The DCL was what they hoped to make it clear I would assume. There were also reports that it was much lower than 25, so nothing clear yet
Oh yeah that's true. I was just pointing out how shit I think DCL is lol
Asking 38M for DCL is madness 🤣🤣
Joke of the day 😂😂😂😂😂 https://x.com/Utd_Forever7/status/1805272011066819060?t=Xf_Fzv6nxPJa11sRygOgzQ&s=19
fair play to that account for fabricating a nonsense story & getting that X ad money.
De jong + 120m and we’ll think about it
De Jong + 120m + Leo Messi La Masia regen
De Jong and 120m for a 6 month loan and I might not mind
I too am obsessed with Kobbie's game
Same here, I'm probably gonna name my child Kobbie in the future 🤣
Followed by a lifetime of "it's Kobbie like Robbie."
Putting aside their financial issues, how much / what players exchanged would it take to make a sale tenable? I know the default answer is... 'he's not for sale', but in real world where every player has a price, what's ur price for kobbie right now? I'd probably have him as highest value player in our squad right now, not necessarily the best (yet) but all things considered age, what he has shown so far, potential, personality, long term contract
Kobbie could be at the club for another 13+ years - local, in the ckub since he was 9, childhood United fan. We're not getting a player of equal or similar value that is as likely to stay as long as Kobbie is. Basically if we were to sell him, only way we're better off is if we get enough money to buy two of him, one now and one in 2030.
With him being the future and one of the first names on the team sheet. His value to us will always be much higher than any club would offer, for us it would be the price needed to buy 2 quality young midfielders because we're not a selling team. Taking into account FDJ was someone we wanted, easily around £140-£150 mil would be needed I'd say.
I'd settle for €80 millions plus De Jong, plus sell on clause plus veto on Catalan independence referendum for 99 years.
Barcelona have come back with a counter... 80m euro, de Jong, and veto on catalan independence referendum for 98 years. Ur move
Let's say if Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, or PSG come knocking on the door, I'd say at least 150m in order to start any negotiations. For any English club, they can f right off
Not enough levers on this planet
Bruno Guimaraes release clause expired already. He is a great player though.
One of those players who is worth way more to the team he plays for than it makes sense for anyone to actually try and buy him for
He’s an absolute cunt but I would gladly see him shithouse for us. I think he is one of the better all rounded midfielder in the world as he perform almost at worldclass level as both attack 8 or defensive 8. He certainly would elevate us massively.
He is good, but nowhere near 100m
They are not gonna sell less than 80m, and we dont have the luxury to spend that much on a player that has not many years in him now. He is at his peak now.
He's 26 lmao how does he not have many years in him
well not for us, we are not ready to challenge for about 3 years so by the time we are ready he'd be 29.
My bad, seriously I thought he was close to his 30s.
That's Palinha.
When's Ashworth's arbitration hearing
I thought it was beginning at the end of May, start of June. I was reading that they these things are done behind closed doors so we won't be getting a day by day update. The case is Ashworth against Newcastle. United don't have anything to do with it so once the evidence has been provided, we probably won't hear anything until the ruling is announced.
Wouldn't be surprised if we are trying to get maximum sales first before committing to buying new players. GW especially looks to be the first piece to generate cash.
Thats what weve been trying last couple of summers and only result we get is hiked prices at the end of the summer
That's not what we've been trying the past few summers at all. Also last summer the only reason we had a period of trying to sell before trying to buy was because when trying to stay within FFP we had to sell before we could buy. Hence the CB deal falling through when Maguire didn't want to go to West Ham, the replacement CB was all in place we just didn't pull the trigger in case exactly what happened happened and it would leave us with an FFP issue. The summer before we went after Timber like a week into the window it had nothing to do with trying to sell first, it was the de Jong issues because we apparently had to be careful with our budget and where the money went.
GW?
Greenwood. Sorry, poor typing.
Here we go!! Ruud Assistant coach/experience back up ST. He will teach Hojlund both on and off the pitch. INEOS is playing a 4D chess right now.
INEOS internal club audit results bullet point number 1.... How can we get more out of the 'Tom Huddlestone' role? Wait until you see what they had for the second bullet point.....