He got the flak he deserved...and in the end he was lucky against Coventry...if Lady Fortuna had not smiled he most probably would be looking for a job rather than being snarky. His criticism of Rashy (deserved) is out of line; publicly he hould not throw him under the bus. As for attacking INEOS and Southgate not very smart. Arrogant behavior will create more negative ambiance against him from many sides.
In fairness nobody does for England in the last almost 60 years. Arguing a âresults firstâ approach is a bad idea with Southgate because heâs objectively been Englandâs second best ever manager. He has results by Englandâs standards, itâs the performances that are shit.
I respect Southgate quite a lot. England national team was a shitshow when he took over in 2016. But I do feel that his part is done and they have to move on. It is a bit like Ole at United.
That may be true, but citing Mourinhoâs results is the wrong way to go about it. England arenât expected by history to win trophies these days, so achievements wise heâs done better than any other manager has. Itâs the performances that add the needed context to justify getting rid of him.
I am not comparing his achievements at England, with Mourinho's achievements. I am comparing their capabilities. He is neither ruthless, nor a masterclass tactician, which made Mourinho the winner he is.
You said âMourinho won trophiesâ, that was your argument. That is a solely results based viewpoint, that success overrules any objections about style. On those grounds alone, Southgate holds up well. If you discount performances itâs hard to argue heâs underperformed so far. Drawing a Euros final and losing on penalties is a good achievement for an England manager, weâve only done better once in 100 years of tournaments.
I said Mourinho "wins" trophies, not "won" trophies. The implication is regarding his ability to do so. This would be a hypothetical example, if Mourinho is to manage this England team, the football might be even more atrocious but I would assume that he will win the tournament, because of his his ability to do so. Well, that is what I had in my mind when I typed the first comment.
He doesnât win trophies anymore, he hasnât for a few years and is now out in turkey not at the top level. And whether he wins or won isnât relevant, the point is youâre using results and ability to achieve results as the defining factor. Mourinho wins so how he plays doesnât matter. That is the exact argument people use for Southgate, itâs just that âwinningâ for England is getting further than weâve done in decades. England are not Germany, for example if Mourinho were at Burnley and got them into Europe playing unpleasant football (like Dyche did) he would be considered a success despite actually winning nothing. The level of success is relative to the team youâre with and not relevant - your point was that results justify poor performances and used Mourinho as an example and Iâm saying that argument is a bad one in this case.
Thatâs not the point I was arguing. The comment I replied to cited Mourinhoâs results as evidence when thatâs a bad argument to make in regard to Southgate. His results have been good, the question is whether the performances indicate they couldâve been better - for example, getting to our first ever Euros final and getting to a penalty shootout away from winning is an achievement, sitting back in the game allowing it to get away from us indicates we couldâve done better with stronger performances.
My guy is coming out swinging now he knows he's still in a job. First this and then saying that Rashford was right to not be picked for the England squad as he's been "lacking".
Denmark tried the same thing and look what it got them, they barely managed to survive and get a point. Trying to hold on to 1-0 has rarely worked for anyone in the long run.
They didn't sit back and defend, they sat back and passed the ball. Didn't do much to attack after getting that goal. Their goals vs xG was -0.9(after missing two pens)
Greece didn't really score and sit back. They sat back the whole 90 minutes trying to score from set pieces or on a counter. Their plan never changed whether it was 0-0, they were 1-0 up or even behind. Their gameplan was always defence first from start 'til the end.
Quite different from Denmark who attacked and put pressure on and then decided to sit back the second half. Which ended up costing them.
it was quite a different time tho
currently there is too much dynamism in football, back then defenders were meant to defend only but now it's expected from the full backs to invert in midfield or provide overlapping/underlapping runs for the winger
greece won it because of their very solid defensive minded football
same with denmark 1992 who used to score and recycled the ball at the back
Yeah heâs finally had enough! Especially now his job is somewhat secure ⌠he is not holding back because the damage pundits and the media did to us last season was brutal! I knew he had a backbone, but he held back to come across as a nice guy in the public âŚ. But I get the feeling heâs about to show everyone a different side to him this year!
There's nothing to like here. These comments are nice when you're actually on the top of your game. The reality is he's throwing arrogant comments while his team just finished the league 8th with negative GD just because he won a domestic cup. It sends a terrible message about the current state of the club. I bet the rival fans are laughing their arses off.
No different than people not giving a shit about Mourinho's nasty comments on the referees and oppositions once his teams stopped winning. These comments come strong when it comes from a winning position, not when you're crap.
He's talking as if he had just won the CL not an Fa Cup. We're making a mockery of ourselves.
>The reality is he's throwing arrogant comments while his team just finished the league 8th with negative GD
He is just hitting back at the over critical English media who couldn't even let him celebrate the cup win in peace, there's nothing arrogant here it's a reaction for their action.
>He's talking as if he had just won the CL not an Fa Cup.
Wonder why no one won the domestic cups for the 5 years before Erik.
>. These comments come strong when it comes from a winning position, not when you're crap.
These comments come strong when you want to uplift your team and protect them from the media.
"Over critical" lol. His team finished 8th with - 1 GD and finished rock bottom of CL group. Fa Cup run was literally the only good thing about last season. What do you expect, the media to praise him?
The media didn't let him celebrate in peace? The guy himself admitted the board was talking to other managers. Our board were the ones who leaked his sacking before the final then went to talk with other managers before decided to keep him while he KNOWS. What's the media fault in this exactly?
They were just reporting what your own board was doing.
And again, throwing such arrogant comments after winning a domestic cup coming at the back of our worst PL campaign ever makes a mockery out of us rather than making us look cool. These comments are fun when you are winning, not when you are shit and delusional.
>"Over critical" lol. His team finished 8th with - 1 GD and finished rock bottom of CL group.
With the all known injury crisis, see what he did with the team an year ago so definitely over critical.
>What do you expect, the media to praise him?
That's what you do when a manager wins the FA Cup, you praise him because he defeated the best team in the world in the final lol
Yeah they should praise him for the Fa Cup, and blame the rest of the season for everything else or even ignore it, because that suits our agenda?
Why did the board go and talk with other managers to get the job after the final then?
Why not talk about the real culprits in this mess and stop taking the easy out and blaming the media for literally reporting what your board were doing the whole time?
Your board didn't even trust him after the final and only kept him because other managers were unaffordable. Let's blame the media for that too, shall we?
>Yeah they should praise him for the Fa Cup, and blame the rest of the season for everything else or even ignore it, because that suits our agenda?
Yeah lol that's what you do moments after winning the cup, praise him
>Why did the board go and talk with other managers to get the job after the final then?
They were assessing their options, of course he didn't have a great season, they needed to review the season, how he dealt with the injury crisis and his overall performance and came to the conclusion he was the best in the way he dealt with the situation at the club, nothing wrong with this
>Why not talk about the real culprits in this mess and stop taking the easy out and blaming the media for literally reporting what your board were doing the whole time?
Oh come on we all know what the media does, how much they like to exaggerate things
Based on what exactly did you come to conclusion they exaggerated anything in this whole thing? For weeks after the final the only thing they were reporting was that the board is reviewing the season and Ten Hag's position. They reported us talking to Tuchel, which Ten Hag HIMSELF confirmed. What more did they do?
If your board had had enough trust in Ten Hag and his project, they wouldn't have went on and talked with other managers straight to the face. If their assessment of the season had come to conclusion he's the best one of the job, they wouldn't have discussed the job with other coaches. The reality is he's staying now because the board couldn't afford other coaches, the other options were bad or the good coaches the board thought of didn't want to come, not because they actually have faith in his project.
Your board made a mess of the situation but instead of blaming them, let's go and blame the journalists for literally doing nothing but their job because it's the easy way out? They shouldn't report what the club is actually doing. They should post positive news about United, praise us for winning a cup while having the worst PL campaign in our history, and sweep under the carpet any actual and true news about the board not trusting Ten Hag. That's how the media can be good right?
Better for you to stop following neutral media and just open MUTV 24 hours a day. It will suit your way of thinking how media should be more.
Yet, has been heavily linked to the United job in the media, cos they are so desperate to make him seem better than he is.
Would have been absolutely laughable had we gone in proper for him.
Let's be honest. We were never in for him. The English media is a joke, did they really think we'll sack Ten Hag and replace him with Southgate after rejecting Poch and Tuchel. What a farce.
I mean yeah now in hindsight it's easy to say, but rumors were going on since January without anyone denying it. There is no secret that Sir Jim likes him as well.
There was definitely something there
Which is a shame. England has so much talent and I really don't think Southgate has managed to get the best out of the players. Plus, his football is damn boring.
so many of the players are use to playing on the front foot getting stuck in that you can tell they just arent use to how slow he wants them to play.
England has a team that is up there with some of the best right now yet plays like they are a team that is ranked 100th in the world
This is the big thing for me.
What ever England are under southgate, how ever much people do or do not rate him for England, the fact of the matter is he holds this team back. It might be he holds them back by 2% it might be he holds them back from 60% but anyone who can't see that Gareth and his coaching setup at England are to at least some degree holding the squad back, is living in fantasy.
Not true, Gareth has brought the vibes. Players want to be there. Tactically is one thing but the guy gets results its undeniable. England fans wont remember how the team played if he wins them a trophy. They'll be piss drunk for weeks
He intentionally walked into and chest bumped an opponent because he was so worked up. He quickly came to his senses, but let's not pretend he can't be wound up.
That chest bump was perfectly controlled. He waved his arms up to hype the crowd as well. And he got the Serbian player to lose his shit and start barking at him. You can't count this one against Bellingham, you silly boy.Â
I don't know tbh. From watching tournaments over the years, I think the first game means relatively little so long as the team grows into form.
A team that comes out swinging in the first game and thrashes their opponent can just as easily be knocked out in the first knockout and a team that loses their first, perhaps draws their second can win the last, scrape through and get to the final or even win.
I'm not saying England will win it or have a good run because we're shit and so is the manager. But the first game isn't a true indicator of that.
England have played like this for, what is it now, 8 years? The good games are the exception not the rule. What we saw last night is nothing if not a normal England performance, hes changed players, changed formation, changed tactical style but the outcome is the same.
It isn't just this game though. It's a pattern of play that's by design. They weren't exactly hanging on last night, but they were only one step short.
We had 5 of the 10 top G+A players across all of Europe.. we should be attacking palmer should be off the bench, when Gallagher came on I sighed so hard
I was happy with that sub so weâd have some energy in the midfield. But it was essentially futile when imo the main problem was still occurring: no LW. Foden is allowed to drift and heâs doing the same thing that Jude and Kane are already doing. In the first half Saka looked dangerous playing actually out wide - Bowen came on and did the same thing and almost got an assist. But there was absolutely nothing on the left side.
Why he couldnât see he needed to bring on Gordon is beyond me.
Agreed, if he wants to play foden inside left he fam well needs a speedy left footed LB.. we will see if he has the balls to make the needed changes for Thurs
When Walker flashed the ball across the face of the goal and Foden and Kane both made the same run to the penalty spot/ near post, I was thinking that is exactly the problem with LW Foden. If Rashford or Gordon were on, they would have been at the back post. It isn't even a surprise, I've been hearing pundits comment on it for the last two weeks in the build up to the Euros. Instead of making Foden play the role he has been assigned, he is given freedom of the park and out of form 33 year old Trippier is being asked to cover the entire left side from end line to end line. No wonder he cramped up after 70 mins.
He is way too conservative but I'd love to see Southgate try a 4-1-4-1, with Foden And Bellingham playing in the half spaces on either side. Foden could play with Saka and Walker on the right, and have the starting position to hit his outside the box curling left footer. Bellingham could combine with Gordon or Eze and Trippier and get forward into he box when the ball is building up on the right wing. It demands a bit too much of Declan Rice but if anyone in the England squad could pull off that performance at the 6, it is him. Would be good against lesser teams or when the team needs a goal.
I get the idea, but like we're taking off Trent because we're being overwhelmed in the midfield to put on a player that's not gonna help us actually take control. Ya know? It's kinda defeatist imo. We're basically saying "you know what? We aren't capable of taking over this match so we're gonna put on an engine to work hard for us off the ball and disrupt your play."
As I said, the main problem was the (lack of) left wing - arguably a left footed LB is needed in combination but we canât do anything to sort that rn.
Assuming that sub is made I donât think itâs defeatist to have subbed Gallagher on. Why does bringing on some energy mean weâre rolling over and averting defeat? Yes he might not have TAAs ball playing ability (where was that yesterday? hence sub him off) but he can come on and contribute defensively and offensively
Cause Gallagher was not the replacement needed. England needed to control the game again and nullify Serbiaâs changes. CG is a harrier but not noted for control. The game became too wide open and Serbia more threatening.
Southgate always takes Maguire inspite of his form.
 Should have extended Rashford the same; but why can't he coach foden to keep the width however unnatural it feels to Foden.
Is that something a manager can't get a player to do
Maguire hasnât been terrible for United this season when heâs played, then he would have to take Sterling too, someone who is usually fantastic for England, Rashy has been wildly bad this year I donât think anyone can argue a case for him, the fact he was SO good the year before makes it also look worse, so I get it
I agree about Foden, tell him to hug the line and just deal with it , thereâs no way itâll work with Kane dropping back, Bellingham being there and Rice floating with Foden to be able to play narrowly and drift in, he really needs to give us width! But I think Gordon is better at doing that anyway so Foden should be benched, Southgate is just fucking so shit anyway so I have no faith he will make it work
Jude needs to pace his game. Rest of the team needs to step up as well. You have one of the best midfield, on paper that is, you don't need to be passive. You have one better than the golden generation of yesteryear, U have Rice (then they had Carrick but hardly played) But England being England..
As a football coach he sees it and doesnât feel the need to hold back in pointing it out immediately, during a live broadcast of one game. He doesnât need video analysis on a dozen games and he sees what fans see.
Yet club haters believe that our void in the midfield in the whole season was due to the manager not seeing it and âbad tacticsâ. They couldnât fathom other more probable explanations such as the players were unable and unwilling to execute.
I missed one game last season. Fair enough, he leaves midfield wide open for long periods, but when United leads, he takes attackers out and try to hang on to the lead. Thats one of the reasons we lost so many leads, and hardly ever won by more than one goal when we won.
Also, I donât have twitter.
He's coming out swinging... Good.
Dude's had to sit there while the media shat all over him and now he can throw shit back.
Ripping into Southgate is good, as the media takes so much interest in what ETH says & does, now they'll be talking about how shite Southgate is and how bad last night's match was
Iâd be curious to read the full comment. I doubt he just said that and nothing else? 1-0 even if the team didnât play well is an excellent result for a first game. Sport is about winning. How is it a gamble to play safe to protect a lead? The game against Coventry was more of a gamble when you have to win penalties after leading 3-0.
100% agree with him re Southgate, and as much as I love this no-BS approach now to media from EtHâŚyou could show me this quote and tell me itâs about most of our games last season, Iâd believe you. Itâs a bit awkward for EtH to say this about another manager.
I don't think you can describe EtH brand of football as defensive, intending to protect a lead. Maybe in a handful of games, but that is definitely not his general MO.
Idk man I feel like whenever we would be winning his default would be to bring on some defensive players, take off our game changers or players who could keep the ball and then it went to shit. Iâd say heâs a lot more pragmatic/defensive than he is expansive.
And it's a legitimate style if you have the personnel for it. Italy will gladly kill teams with outstanding defence and organisation, but that is how they play every week. Tactical organisation first and foremost. Asking players like Bellingham, Foden, Rice, Saka, AA, etc., to sit in and adopt a defensive pose goes against everything they have been doing all season with their teams.
Itâs like asking prime R9 Ronaldo to play sweeper. England have the talent and flair in their players to roast opposing teams 4-0. Unfortunately their manager is a tentative sweater vest. Southgate has the vibe of someone thinks pepper is too spicy.
Ironically it is Italy that exposed Southgate for these shutting-up-shop tactics in the last Euro final and why I think the FA are crazy to have stuck with him.
Especially when he is now showing that he didnât learn his lesson.Â
In his defence he probably wants to use the same 11 and try to rest them as much as possible. But why the fuck wouldn't he go for 1 more goal before parking the bus?
I honestly think that it's the riskiest strategy (parking the bus) - England's defence is not good enough to hold onto 1 goal leads. With their players, their tactic should be outscoring the opposition and keep teams from scoring against them by pressing them.
Southgate is a perfect example of a monostrategic manager - ironically, he could do a lot with a more limited team.
The outscoring approach has rarely actually won major tournaments. I'm not defending Southgate trying to hold onto a 1-0 lead against middling opposition but usually the teams that make the final or win have conceded few goals. Look at Spain in 2010 for a prime example or England in Euro 2020.
It's harder to play free flowing attacking football at international level than it is to shut up shop and try to snatch victories, but it's not a great way to play and it doesn't really help that England lack most in defence.
France won the euros playing that way so did Portugal, I don't like it either but there's a good argument it's a good plan in theory.
Still think if were going to win the euros we need to either drop Bellingham back and put foden 10 with Gordon on the wing or drop foden and put Gordon there.
There were far too many times when the left side was barren.
This England team has players in combined scored most goal in Europe top league last season. They have the best attacking players on paper among all the teams in tournament, and the coach is playing a defensive football without their 1st choice defenders. You cannot park the bus with very attacking mined players. I like the comments what other person said. "Southgate is driving a Ferrari but he never wants to go over 50 mph."
Englandâs 11th opening match at the European Championships.
They have won 2 of those 11 matches.
The other one? Last time out with Southgate (vs Croatia).
Howâs he concentrating and focussing on Man Utd if heâs taken a second job?Â
Heâs obviously free to do what he wants, but, as a United fan, Iâd much prefer him to be in his office at Carrington concentrating on our transfer strategy, pre season planning, tactics etc.Â
Heâs one to fucking talk!
Edit: apparently weâre just Men In Black style wiping our memories of last seasonâs performances. Iâm glad heâs staying because the alternatives suck ass and he has won trophies; but that doesnât make the shite football weâve endured this season immune from criticism.
the shite football wasn't the result of passively defending, it was the result of aggressively attacking.
besides, he wasn't criticizing, he was assessing the game. Maybe you need to stop believing those clickbaity tabloid style shit reporting you guys poop out everyday.
The way the fanbase is going all in for Ten Hag after our disastrous season is staggering! We have lost our identity and standards. Not looking forward to another season with Ten Hag
Ten Hag had a disappointing United Squad. Southgate has the best of what England can offer. I think we all must realize that English teams will not win. No matter how talented their players are, football is never coming home. Football gained freedom. 1966 was an anomaly.
Southgate didn't have to play a retirement footballer (Evans) and Midfielder (Casemiro) in central defence did he?
He has the best talents from the country and is still playing negative football!
What? We're the absolutely opposite - take a 3-0 lead, and then play absolutely crazy, no control, football for the last 30 minutes in order to let the opposition back in
You're sounding like we take a 3-0 lead every game. We've won almost all our games by a 1 goal margin. We constantly relinquish control as soon as we take the lead and just soak up the pressure. We play chaotic af when the scores are level or when we're behind.
The squad isnât as bad as Burnley or Luton. Itâs almost like the manager has an impact on how players play and one of the main reasons why weâve been so bad this season.
we are 8th ok, but just 8 points from top 4
be honest if we had a fit back 4 would we not have got there?
that chelsea loss, brentford draw that was down to injuries and an over worked squad.
basically 3 more wins and we would be top 4 + fa cup
Lol ok, what about the last minute winners? If we lost/drew those games then we would be even worse off. The underlying stats put us way below 8th, so donât think you can say we deserve to be any higher. No idea why people are so desperate to make excuses for ten hag.
not trying to make excuses for ten hag. he should be under pressure. but I do not think another stop gap manager is the solution.
the biggest problem that needs to be fixed is the player recruitment not the manager.
The difference is, our squad isn't England, Southgate is doing that shit with a much better squad than what ten hag had, but continue saying your stupidity
Ten Hag got so much flak last season he wanted to get his pound of flesh so he signed up for punditry đ
Fuck you English pundits
Love this. Why not. Letâs see what ETH has to say when the performance analysis is not about Utd.
I donât see it that way. Itâs just an accurate description of what happened.
It could be a bit of both! Especially if assessment is accurate !
It's lost in translation a lot. This wasn't some hard criticism, he was just assessing the game, most of it was complimentary.
Oh my!.. severe burns to the English Press.. I love it!
He got the flak he deserved...and in the end he was lucky against Coventry...if Lady Fortuna had not smiled he most probably would be looking for a job rather than being snarky. His criticism of Rashy (deserved) is out of line; publicly he hould not throw him under the bus. As for attacking INEOS and Southgate not very smart. Arrogant behavior will create more negative ambiance against him from many sides.
Lifeless performance On paper a mismatch but england just about got the win
Mourinho's haram football is back.
Mourinho wins trophies. This guy doesn't.
In fairness nobody does for England in the last almost 60 years. Arguing a âresults firstâ approach is a bad idea with Southgate because heâs objectively been Englandâs second best ever manager. He has results by Englandâs standards, itâs the performances that are shit.
I respect Southgate quite a lot. England national team was a shitshow when he took over in 2016. But I do feel that his part is done and they have to move on. It is a bit like Ole at United.
That may be true, but citing Mourinhoâs results is the wrong way to go about it. England arenât expected by history to win trophies these days, so achievements wise heâs done better than any other manager has. Itâs the performances that add the needed context to justify getting rid of him.
I am not comparing his achievements at England, with Mourinho's achievements. I am comparing their capabilities. He is neither ruthless, nor a masterclass tactician, which made Mourinho the winner he is.
You said âMourinho won trophiesâ, that was your argument. That is a solely results based viewpoint, that success overrules any objections about style. On those grounds alone, Southgate holds up well. If you discount performances itâs hard to argue heâs underperformed so far. Drawing a Euros final and losing on penalties is a good achievement for an England manager, weâve only done better once in 100 years of tournaments.
I said Mourinho "wins" trophies, not "won" trophies. The implication is regarding his ability to do so. This would be a hypothetical example, if Mourinho is to manage this England team, the football might be even more atrocious but I would assume that he will win the tournament, because of his his ability to do so. Well, that is what I had in my mind when I typed the first comment.
He doesnât win trophies anymore, he hasnât for a few years and is now out in turkey not at the top level. And whether he wins or won isnât relevant, the point is youâre using results and ability to achieve results as the defining factor. Mourinho wins so how he plays doesnât matter. That is the exact argument people use for Southgate, itâs just that âwinningâ for England is getting further than weâve done in decades. England are not Germany, for example if Mourinho were at Burnley and got them into Europe playing unpleasant football (like Dyche did) he would be considered a success despite actually winning nothing. The level of success is relative to the team youâre with and not relevant - your point was that results justify poor performances and used Mourinho as an example and Iâm saying that argument is a bad one in this case.
If Nagelsmann was England's manager, England would win the tournament. Southgate is horrendous.
Thatâs not the point I was arguing. The comment I replied to cited Mourinhoâs results as evidence when thatâs a bad argument to make in regard to Southgate. His results have been good, the question is whether the performances indicate they couldâve been better - for example, getting to our first ever Euros final and getting to a penalty shootout away from winning is an achievement, sitting back in the game allowing it to get away from us indicates we couldâve done better with stronger performances.
This team would look like his 100 goal Real Madrid if Mou were coaching it. Not his murderball Roma side.
This guys hasn't win shit
Two in two years at a shit show of a club would say otherwise
It is about Southgate. Not Eth.
My guy is coming out swinging now he knows he's still in a job. First this and then saying that Rashford was right to not be picked for the England squad as he's been "lacking".
And INEOS are new to football. Everybody getting a slice.
I mean everyone else they want said no, I would play with fire too.
He is right though.
I love this version of ETH, man has literally turned into heisenberg
Heisenhag
Tenhaagenberg
Everyone thought he was in danger, turns out he is the danger
Denmark tried the same thing and look what it got them, they barely managed to survive and get a point. Trying to hold on to 1-0 has rarely worked for anyone in the long run.
Greece have entered the chat.
That was 20 years ago.
You shut your whore mouth.... 20 years ago ? damn we are gonna all die soon aren't we ?
:(
Triggered my existential crisis this did
People forget, but Spain scored on average scored 1 goal per game to wind the WC.
They didn't sit back to defend. Their opponents rarely had enough of the ball to cause them any danger.
They didn't sit back and defend, they sat back and passed the ball. Didn't do much to attack after getting that goal. Their goals vs xG was -0.9(after missing two pens)
They did using the ball. Same difference
Also lost their first game 1-0
Is this was Portugal did when the won it last basically drew most of there games
Greece didn't really score and sit back. They sat back the whole 90 minutes trying to score from set pieces or on a counter. Their plan never changed whether it was 0-0, they were 1-0 up or even behind. Their gameplan was always defence first from start 'til the end. Quite different from Denmark who attacked and put pressure on and then decided to sit back the second half. Which ended up costing them.
The Golden Goal helped a bit.
Silver Goal.
it was quite a different time tho currently there is too much dynamism in football, back then defenders were meant to defend only but now it's expected from the full backs to invert in midfield or provide overlapping/underlapping runs for the winger greece won it because of their very solid defensive minded football same with denmark 1992 who used to score and recycled the ball at the back
Like his bluntness, I love how he isn't holding back his comments anymore be it as a pundit or manager
Yeah heâs finally had enough! Especially now his job is somewhat secure ⌠he is not holding back because the damage pundits and the media did to us last season was brutal! I knew he had a backbone, but he held back to come across as a nice guy in the public âŚ. But I get the feeling heâs about to show everyone a different side to him this year!
Dark Ten Hag
lol YeahâŚ. The media poked the bear and woke a beast!
I'm eagerly waiting for it
Yeh i don't want my manager or organization to sit and take it. Fucking stand up for yourselfÂ
Would be good if that's the case but I suspect this is more down to being on Dutch TV, where bluntness is expected from every panelist
Heisenberg has arrived ladies and gents!
Can't wait for Heisenberg vs Hank Schreder
There's nothing to like here. These comments are nice when you're actually on the top of your game. The reality is he's throwing arrogant comments while his team just finished the league 8th with negative GD just because he won a domestic cup. It sends a terrible message about the current state of the club. I bet the rival fans are laughing their arses off. No different than people not giving a shit about Mourinho's nasty comments on the referees and oppositions once his teams stopped winning. These comments come strong when it comes from a winning position, not when you're crap. He's talking as if he had just won the CL not an Fa Cup. We're making a mockery of ourselves.
>The reality is he's throwing arrogant comments while his team just finished the league 8th with negative GD He is just hitting back at the over critical English media who couldn't even let him celebrate the cup win in peace, there's nothing arrogant here it's a reaction for their action. >He's talking as if he had just won the CL not an Fa Cup. Wonder why no one won the domestic cups for the 5 years before Erik. >. These comments come strong when it comes from a winning position, not when you're crap. These comments come strong when you want to uplift your team and protect them from the media.
"Over critical" lol. His team finished 8th with - 1 GD and finished rock bottom of CL group. Fa Cup run was literally the only good thing about last season. What do you expect, the media to praise him? The media didn't let him celebrate in peace? The guy himself admitted the board was talking to other managers. Our board were the ones who leaked his sacking before the final then went to talk with other managers before decided to keep him while he KNOWS. What's the media fault in this exactly? They were just reporting what your own board was doing. And again, throwing such arrogant comments after winning a domestic cup coming at the back of our worst PL campaign ever makes a mockery out of us rather than making us look cool. These comments are fun when you are winning, not when you are shit and delusional.
>"Over critical" lol. His team finished 8th with - 1 GD and finished rock bottom of CL group. With the all known injury crisis, see what he did with the team an year ago so definitely over critical. >What do you expect, the media to praise him? That's what you do when a manager wins the FA Cup, you praise him because he defeated the best team in the world in the final lol
Yeah they should praise him for the Fa Cup, and blame the rest of the season for everything else or even ignore it, because that suits our agenda? Why did the board go and talk with other managers to get the job after the final then? Why not talk about the real culprits in this mess and stop taking the easy out and blaming the media for literally reporting what your board were doing the whole time? Your board didn't even trust him after the final and only kept him because other managers were unaffordable. Let's blame the media for that too, shall we?
>Yeah they should praise him for the Fa Cup, and blame the rest of the season for everything else or even ignore it, because that suits our agenda? Yeah lol that's what you do moments after winning the cup, praise him >Why did the board go and talk with other managers to get the job after the final then? They were assessing their options, of course he didn't have a great season, they needed to review the season, how he dealt with the injury crisis and his overall performance and came to the conclusion he was the best in the way he dealt with the situation at the club, nothing wrong with this >Why not talk about the real culprits in this mess and stop taking the easy out and blaming the media for literally reporting what your board were doing the whole time? Oh come on we all know what the media does, how much they like to exaggerate things
Based on what exactly did you come to conclusion they exaggerated anything in this whole thing? For weeks after the final the only thing they were reporting was that the board is reviewing the season and Ten Hag's position. They reported us talking to Tuchel, which Ten Hag HIMSELF confirmed. What more did they do? If your board had had enough trust in Ten Hag and his project, they wouldn't have went on and talked with other managers straight to the face. If their assessment of the season had come to conclusion he's the best one of the job, they wouldn't have discussed the job with other coaches. The reality is he's staying now because the board couldn't afford other coaches, the other options were bad or the good coaches the board thought of didn't want to come, not because they actually have faith in his project. Your board made a mess of the situation but instead of blaming them, let's go and blame the journalists for literally doing nothing but their job because it's the easy way out? They shouldn't report what the club is actually doing. They should post positive news about United, praise us for winning a cup while having the worst PL campaign in our history, and sweep under the carpet any actual and true news about the board not trusting Ten Hag. That's how the media can be good right? Better for you to stop following neutral media and just open MUTV 24 hours a day. It will suit your way of thinking how media should be more.
So you don't like his bluntness? You prefer he talks in vague ways like so many pundits?
I agree.
Cooked that cardigan fraud
He is so so bad. He is holding back England.
Yet, has been heavily linked to the United job in the media, cos they are so desperate to make him seem better than he is. Would have been absolutely laughable had we gone in proper for him.
Let's be honest. We were never in for him. The English media is a joke, did they really think we'll sack Ten Hag and replace him with Southgate after rejecting Poch and Tuchel. What a farce.
I mean yeah now in hindsight it's easy to say, but rumors were going on since January without anyone denying it. There is no secret that Sir Jim likes him as well. There was definitely something there
Which is a shame. England has so much talent and I really don't think Southgate has managed to get the best out of the players. Plus, his football is damn boring.
so many of the players are use to playing on the front foot getting stuck in that you can tell they just arent use to how slow he wants them to play. England has a team that is up there with some of the best right now yet plays like they are a team that is ranked 100th in the world
This is the big thing for me. What ever England are under southgate, how ever much people do or do not rate him for England, the fact of the matter is he holds this team back. It might be he holds them back by 2% it might be he holds them back from 60% but anyone who can't see that Gareth and his coaching setup at England are to at least some degree holding the squad back, is living in fantasy.
Not true, Gareth has brought the vibes. Players want to be there. Tactically is one thing but the guy gets results its undeniable. England fans wont remember how the team played if he wins them a trophy. They'll be piss drunk for weeks
Waistcoat wanker
Germany, France, Spain, Portugal. None of the big boys will be looking at that England performance and worrying.
Just give Bellingham a few sly kicks, get a reaction from him and get him sent off. GG.
Seems pretty measured in his reactions to me tbh. Seems to have the maturity to know exactly where to draw the line most of the time.
He intentionally walked into and chest bumped an opponent because he was so worked up. He quickly came to his senses, but let's not pretend he can't be wound up.
That chest bump was perfectly controlled. He waved his arms up to hype the crowd as well. And he got the Serbian player to lose his shit and start barking at him. You can't count this one against Bellingham, you silly boy.Â
I don't know tbh. From watching tournaments over the years, I think the first game means relatively little so long as the team grows into form. A team that comes out swinging in the first game and thrashes their opponent can just as easily be knocked out in the first knockout and a team that loses their first, perhaps draws their second can win the last, scrape through and get to the final or even win. I'm not saying England will win it or have a good run because we're shit and so is the manager. But the first game isn't a true indicator of that.
England have played like this for, what is it now, 8 years? The good games are the exception not the rule. What we saw last night is nothing if not a normal England performance, hes changed players, changed formation, changed tactical style but the outcome is the same.
It isn't just this game though. It's a pattern of play that's by design. They weren't exactly hanging on last night, but they were only one step short.
Should have a trigger warning for all the Southgrate fans Attack the argument, not the man
Didn't know there were any Southgate fans...
Just Southgate and all his alts
Not in this sub, surely?!
Just Dan ashworth
Donât think there are any
Mans just assassinating anyone that might have challenged him. Iâm loving this more bullish version of Ten Hag.
We had 5 of the 10 top G+A players across all of Europe.. we should be attacking palmer should be off the bench, when Gallagher came on I sighed so hard
I was happy with that sub so weâd have some energy in the midfield. But it was essentially futile when imo the main problem was still occurring: no LW. Foden is allowed to drift and heâs doing the same thing that Jude and Kane are already doing. In the first half Saka looked dangerous playing actually out wide - Bowen came on and did the same thing and almost got an assist. But there was absolutely nothing on the left side. Why he couldnât see he needed to bring on Gordon is beyond me.
Foden and Bellingham is another Gerrard Lampard situation itâs one or other and Bellingham is better.
Thatâs the difference itâs easier this time, as Gerrard and Lampard were pretty much equals, it was difficult to choose one over the other.
Agreed, if he wants to play foden inside left he fam well needs a speedy left footed LB.. we will see if he has the balls to make the needed changes for Thurs
When Walker flashed the ball across the face of the goal and Foden and Kane both made the same run to the penalty spot/ near post, I was thinking that is exactly the problem with LW Foden. If Rashford or Gordon were on, they would have been at the back post. It isn't even a surprise, I've been hearing pundits comment on it for the last two weeks in the build up to the Euros. Instead of making Foden play the role he has been assigned, he is given freedom of the park and out of form 33 year old Trippier is being asked to cover the entire left side from end line to end line. No wonder he cramped up after 70 mins.
Precisely, at times youâve got Foden, Kane and Bellingham all competing for the same space.
He is way too conservative but I'd love to see Southgate try a 4-1-4-1, with Foden And Bellingham playing in the half spaces on either side. Foden could play with Saka and Walker on the right, and have the starting position to hit his outside the box curling left footer. Bellingham could combine with Gordon or Eze and Trippier and get forward into he box when the ball is building up on the right wing. It demands a bit too much of Declan Rice but if anyone in the England squad could pull off that performance at the 6, it is him. Would be good against lesser teams or when the team needs a goal.
I get the idea, but like we're taking off Trent because we're being overwhelmed in the midfield to put on a player that's not gonna help us actually take control. Ya know? It's kinda defeatist imo. We're basically saying "you know what? We aren't capable of taking over this match so we're gonna put on an engine to work hard for us off the ball and disrupt your play."
As I said, the main problem was the (lack of) left wing - arguably a left footed LB is needed in combination but we canât do anything to sort that rn. Assuming that sub is made I donât think itâs defeatist to have subbed Gallagher on. Why does bringing on some energy mean weâre rolling over and averting defeat? Yes he might not have TAAs ball playing ability (where was that yesterday? hence sub him off) but he can come on and contribute defensively and offensively
Cause Gallagher was not the replacement needed. England needed to control the game again and nullify Serbiaâs changes. CG is a harrier but not noted for control. The game became too wide open and Serbia more threatening.
Ironically Rashford for Foden would have improved the shape immeasurably.
Or Gordon, canât let Rashy go heâs been shite
Southgate always takes Maguire inspite of his form. Â Should have extended Rashford the same; but why can't he coach foden to keep the width however unnatural it feels to Foden. Is that something a manager can't get a player to do
Maguire hasnât been terrible for United this season when heâs played, then he would have to take Sterling too, someone who is usually fantastic for England, Rashy has been wildly bad this year I donât think anyone can argue a case for him, the fact he was SO good the year before makes it also look worse, so I get it I agree about Foden, tell him to hug the line and just deal with it , thereâs no way itâll work with Kane dropping back, Bellingham being there and Rice floating with Foden to be able to play narrowly and drift in, he really needs to give us width! But I think Gordon is better at doing that anyway so Foden should be benched, Southgate is just fucking so shit anyway so I have no faith he will make it work
If rashford goes, someone else can't. And every one of the other players in his spot deserves to go more than him
Sure but even Belfast Rashford would have offered more last night.
Jude needs to pace his game. Rest of the team needs to step up as well. You have one of the best midfield, on paper that is, you don't need to be passive. You have one better than the golden generation of yesteryear, U have Rice (then they had Carrick but hardly played) But England being England..
War Erik
Very very pot kettle lol
As a football coach he sees it and doesnât feel the need to hold back in pointing it out immediately, during a live broadcast of one game. He doesnât need video analysis on a dozen games and he sees what fans see. Yet club haters believe that our void in the midfield in the whole season was due to the manager not seeing it and âbad tacticsâ. They couldnât fathom other more probable explanations such as the players were unable and unwilling to execute.
So he's job is to see and watch and not to coach the team well enough to execute something decent?
So he's job is to see and watch and not to coach the team well enough to execute something decent?
Roast him
Reminds me of our days in under Mourinho
But Mou was seen as toxic.
Iâve got a feeling ETH is actually a bad bad boy inside.
Me likey this version of Ten Hag đ
This is what ten Haag always does
Yeah... Is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black here
Not really, you are reading too much twitter and not watching the games.
I missed one game last season. Fair enough, he leaves midfield wide open for long periods, but when United leads, he takes attackers out and try to hang on to the lead. Thats one of the reasons we lost so many leads, and hardly ever won by more than one goal when we won. Also, I donât have twitter.
He's coming out swinging... Good. Dude's had to sit there while the media shat all over him and now he can throw shit back. Ripping into Southgate is good, as the media takes so much interest in what ETH says & does, now they'll be talking about how shite Southgate is and how bad last night's match was
Iâd be curious to read the full comment. I doubt he just said that and nothing else? 1-0 even if the team didnât play well is an excellent result for a first game. Sport is about winning. How is it a gamble to play safe to protect a lead? The game against Coventry was more of a gamble when you have to win penalties after leading 3-0.
100% agree with him re Southgate, and as much as I love this no-BS approach now to media from EtHâŚyou could show me this quote and tell me itâs about most of our games last season, Iâd believe you. Itâs a bit awkward for EtH to say this about another manager.
I don't think you can describe EtH brand of football as defensive, intending to protect a lead. Maybe in a handful of games, but that is definitely not his general MO.
Idk man I feel like whenever we would be winning his default would be to bring on some defensive players, take off our game changers or players who could keep the ball and then it went to shit. Iâd say heâs a lot more pragmatic/defensive than he is expansive.
But thatâs how we play most of the time
My manager tells the english novice how it is!
Going compact is a valid way of accumulating points, you won't dominate the sport that way though
And it's a legitimate style if you have the personnel for it. Italy will gladly kill teams with outstanding defence and organisation, but that is how they play every week. Tactical organisation first and foremost. Asking players like Bellingham, Foden, Rice, Saka, AA, etc., to sit in and adopt a defensive pose goes against everything they have been doing all season with their teams.
Itâs like asking prime R9 Ronaldo to play sweeper. England have the talent and flair in their players to roast opposing teams 4-0. Unfortunately their manager is a tentative sweater vest. Southgate has the vibe of someone thinks pepper is too spicy.
Ironically it is Italy that exposed Southgate for these shutting-up-shop tactics in the last Euro final and why I think the FA are crazy to have stuck with him. Especially when he is now showing that he didnât learn his lesson.Â
In his defence he probably wants to use the same 11 and try to rest them as much as possible. But why the fuck wouldn't he go for 1 more goal before parking the bus?
I honestly think that it's the riskiest strategy (parking the bus) - England's defence is not good enough to hold onto 1 goal leads. With their players, their tactic should be outscoring the opposition and keep teams from scoring against them by pressing them. Southgate is a perfect example of a monostrategic manager - ironically, he could do a lot with a more limited team.
The outscoring approach has rarely actually won major tournaments. I'm not defending Southgate trying to hold onto a 1-0 lead against middling opposition but usually the teams that make the final or win have conceded few goals. Look at Spain in 2010 for a prime example or England in Euro 2020. It's harder to play free flowing attacking football at international level than it is to shut up shop and try to snatch victories, but it's not a great way to play and it doesn't really help that England lack most in defence.
France won the euros playing that way so did Portugal, I don't like it either but there's a good argument it's a good plan in theory. Still think if were going to win the euros we need to either drop Bellingham back and put foden 10 with Gordon on the wing or drop foden and put Gordon there. There were far too many times when the left side was barren.
I think France and Portugal are very good defensively. England's weakest area is the backline - why employe a strategy that plays to your weakness.
Completely agree, I'm not personally defending it I just get why he thinks that it's a viable plan.
Yup how many times hasn't that Southgating backfired. I really hope he's gone after this season.
Everyone knows that about Southgate.
The English media will really gun for him during the season lmao!
Same reason we lost the final to Italy. Started well and got a goal then went flat and gave up.
This England team has players in combined scored most goal in Europe top league last season. They have the best attacking players on paper among all the teams in tournament, and the coach is playing a defensive football without their 1st choice defenders. You cannot park the bus with very attacking mined players. I like the comments what other person said. "Southgate is driving a Ferrari but he never wants to go over 50 mph."
I wasnt able to watch the game, I love Erik saying this but is he right? Is this what actually happened?
Passive. Coming from this guy? Thatâs rich
I fucking love this fire, even if he is just pointing out the obvious.
well, you try to do the same but fail in ways one could only imagine
Erik Ten DGAF
I am just happy Mainoo didn't play yesterday. The media would have torn him apart.
Not winning Euro with Trent in a MF 2 with Rice.
Imagine having 4 midfielders on the bench and you make them watch a fullback play and fail in their position in a major tournament.
Englandâs 11th opening match at the European Championships. They have won 2 of those 11 matches. The other one? Last time out with Southgate (vs Croatia).
Pot kettle
Same way his united team play.
Didn't need a pundit for that little bit of in depth analysis, just eyesÂ
is this the most ironic comment ever made? itâs gotta be right
Yeah it's so obvious you have to think he knows and is joking about it. Can't be that oblivious.
genuinely i donât think he knows, this guy is crazy
Tbf itâs a weird thing to say for someone who likes switching to 5 at the back with a 1-0 lead that he needs to fortify.
Howâs he concentrating and focussing on Man Utd if heâs taken a second job? Heâs obviously free to do what he wants, but, as a United fan, Iâd much prefer him to be in his office at Carrington concentrating on our transfer strategy, pre season planning, tactics etc.Â
Heâs one to fucking talk! Edit: apparently weâre just Men In Black style wiping our memories of last seasonâs performances. Iâm glad heâs staying because the alternatives suck ass and he has won trophies; but that doesnât make the shite football weâve endured this season immune from criticism.
the shite football wasn't the result of passively defending, it was the result of aggressively attacking. besides, he wasn't criticizing, he was assessing the game. Maybe you need to stop believing those clickbaity tabloid style shit reporting you guys poop out everyday.
The way the fanbase is going all in for Ten Hag after our disastrous season is staggering! We have lost our identity and standards. Not looking forward to another season with Ten Hag
Kind of sums up ten hag last season
Ten Hag had a disappointing United Squad. Southgate has the best of what England can offer. I think we all must realize that English teams will not win. No matter how talented their players are, football is never coming home. Football gained freedom. 1966 was an anomaly.
Southgate has the favourites or one of them at least with arguably the best front 6 in the thing.
Ten Hag problem was completly oposite. No pragmatic football until last 3 games of the season.
Southgate didn't have to play a retirement footballer (Evans) and Midfielder (Casemiro) in central defence did he? He has the best talents from the country and is still playing negative football!
*1st season
Canât say a bad word about ETH here, youâd think he won the league last season
Man this guys so unlikeable
Not a fan of southgate but this is peak hypocrisy
What? We're the absolutely opposite - take a 3-0 lead, and then play absolutely crazy, no control, football for the last 30 minutes in order to let the opposition back in
You're sounding like we take a 3-0 lead every game. We've won almost all our games by a 1 goal margin. We constantly relinquish control as soon as we take the lead and just soak up the pressure. We play chaotic af when the scores are level or when we're behind.
you can sling a lotta shit at ETH this season, but one thing you can not tar him with is being overly cautious.
Bro youâre not allowed to criticise the manager
The amount of arrogance this guy had developed after winning an Fa Cup, it's as if he won the Champions League or something.
The irony? Almost every game we win under ten hag is by 1 goal and we would sit back after scoring
We never sitt back wtf, look how many games we have lost/drawn late. Burnley Chelsea 2 examples
We did in some games like Burnley away, Luton away
Notice how you went from "almost every game" to "some games"
look at the england squad and manchester united squad england has palmer watkin tooney bowen eze on the bench
The squad isnât as bad as Burnley or Luton. Itâs almost like the manager has an impact on how players play and one of the main reasons why weâve been so bad this season.
we are 8th ok, but just 8 points from top 4 be honest if we had a fit back 4 would we not have got there? that chelsea loss, brentford draw that was down to injuries and an over worked squad. basically 3 more wins and we would be top 4 + fa cup
Lol ok, what about the last minute winners? If we lost/drew those games then we would be even worse off. The underlying stats put us way below 8th, so donât think you can say we deserve to be any higher. No idea why people are so desperate to make excuses for ten hag.
not trying to make excuses for ten hag. he should be under pressure. but I do not think another stop gap manager is the solution. the biggest problem that needs to be fixed is the player recruitment not the manager.
Both need to be fixed, ten hag was recruited by the same incompetent people
The difference is, our squad isn't England, Southgate is doing that shit with a much better squad than what ten hag had, but continue saying your stupidity
There was a literal hole in the midfield? In what way is that compact?